PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Trevor Sikkema on where Jalen Hurts ranks among the NFL’s best QBs

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

Pro Football Focus’ Trevor Sikkema joins the show to discuss a slew of recent rankings he’s published. Where does Jalen Hurts rank on his list of quarterbacks? What makes him so high on Bryce Huff among the league’s edge rushers? And who does he think are the Eagles’ three best players?Zach Berman and Bo Wulf chop it up with Sikkema for the sikkos. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Trevor Sycamah joins the show to talk about his A-plus draft grade for the Philadelphia Eagles and where Jalen Hertz lands in his quarterback rankings. And Zach goes to the Telestrator to break down his frame-by-frame analysis of the Terrell Lewis video. It's all coming up next on the P.HLY Eagles podcast. That's on a Tuesday high noon, Bo-Wolf, Zach Berman. Back at it again. We're going to talk to Trevor Sycambe, a pro football focus later today. about 15 minutes or so.

We're going to talk about his quarterback rankings, his edge rankings, his A-plus draft grade for the Eagles a little bit more. Zach, how you doing? Doing great. Excited for the show. Looking forward to another great show and the whole week ahead.

Excited to have Julia back in studio. Oh, ho-ho-ho. She has right down from Delhi. Very exciting. Very exciting to have Julia back. Some, like, interesting news on the behind-the-scenes Eagles front, Zach reported by the Inquirer? What can you tell us about it?

Yeah, so this actually, I saw this on my ride in that the Rothman Institute is ending its partnership as the official team doctors with the Eagles. This is according to Harold Brubaker from the Inquirer. And this is because of the- Harry Brubs, they call him. He's a good reporter because of malpractice risk. And if you recall, Chris Marigose won a case against Rothman Institute from the ending of his, of his, of his, of his, of his, his career and I pretty spicy a pretty spicy payout on that bad boy like 14 million right yeah I believe 14.3 million um I believe you know I don't have enough information on this now that to tell you the ramifications I do know uh the Eagles chief medical officer Arsdenota he's with

pen medicine actually so it's it's it's not as if like all the doctors are from the Rothman Institute but this is a longstanding affiliation I mean as as long as I've covered the team and well beyond that the Rothman Institute has been associated with the Eagles. So curious to learn more about this but this is interesting behind the scenes

for the Eagles. All right. I guess we'll stay tuned. See what else happens here. What else is going on in your world? What else is going on in my world? Yeah, we haven't talked since yesterday. Went to his own last night. I'm curious about it. It was great. Reed's name was on the scoreboard. Was he pumped? He was pumped. He was

pumped. He was cheering them on, a lot of home runs. He thought maybe him being there helped ignite the Phillies. I said, I told him it doesn't work that way, but he can certainly feel that way. You don't know for a fact that it doesn't work that way. I'd like to see you prove it. And then I was telling him about all the,

we were talking about all the players on the Padres. He's quizzing him. He's very specific about, you know, he wants to know how many strikes has Christopher Sanchez thrown this season. How many strikes has him? I'm like, I don't have that off the top of my head. Okay, that's good one.

But he's, yeah, he was loving it. He was loving it. He wore his J.T. Romuto jersey. He wasn't there playing. But he saw 4-4-for-4, right, from Marchand. Then we had to talk about service time and because Marchand's a rookie, right? Okay. But he associates that with being drafted.

So how is he a rookie if they haven't had the draft yet? And I had to explain the minor league system. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But no, it's a fun night. I want to hear about you, though, more importantly. Softball debut. We know you love talking about your athletic exploits on this show. Bit of a heavy heart.

Bit of a heavy heart today, Zach. Now, you know that... Because the Celtics won or because... Did the Celtics win? Yes, the Celtics won. Yes. Who cares? A lot of people cares.

The NBA finals, Bill. I'm not going to... I would imagine to guess that fewer people have cared about this NBA finals than any NBA finals in recent memory. You can't poo at the NBA finals. You can do whatever I want. You poop all over it. Okay, all right. Let's hear about softball.

Who cares? Heavy heart. Yeah, well, so listen, first game of season, we're gonna have the new bats, had a couple new players, good to get some new blood on the team. Now, a couple things. One, you know, this is, you know,

like where we're talking about adults with kids, like, you know, taking time away, paying babysitters and stuff like that. Take the bat off your shoulders. Other team. Like, you're just sitting up there taking walks. like, what are we doing here? We're here to play softball.

Like, we're not here to just walk. Give me a break. One could say the pitcher should put the ball over the plate. One could say that. And one could say that, like, you know, you're not going to, you don't have to swing a terrible pitch, but a borderline pitch. And borderline pitch, you should swing the back. Exactly.

What are we doing here? Well, wait, well, you're there to swing. You're not there. Yeah. Your OPS isn't, you know, or you're on base percentage. Give me a break. It's not a big deal. So, yeah, you know, some borderline behavior from the other team, but that's okay.

You're not going to blame the other team. I do say, you know, playing the field is what I really enjoy on softball. Oh, yeah. I get much more fun playing shortstop. That's like where you can really, you feel like a kid again. You're really playing the game in short. A good defensive game from us. The Wolf battery up the middle did a good job.

I had my brother as a cameo last night. That was fun. The defense was good. But I did not carry up my end of the bargain. as the three-hitter. Not good enough. And we're down four. Last inning,

I come up with the bases loaded one out. I got to put that one over the fence. No doubt about it. And I just, it'll high pop up to deep center. Didn't get it out. And I'm going to be thinking about it for a week. Drop your hands.

What was the issue with the swing? I don't want to make excuses. It wasn't a good enough swing. It was a hitable pitch. I don't know if it's not fully used to the new bat. I don't know if I was. Was this the wood bat you had on your shoulder? The bamboo, the sexy bamboo.

And I just wasn't the debut that I was looking for from the sexy bamboo. What'd you finish? One for four, which is terrible. That's about as bad as I could possibly do. Yeah, softball. That's not particularly good. It's not very good. Sorry.

So, yeah, pop up the first time. Nice, you know, frozen rope single the second time. Then like a bad hard hit one hit chopper to the third base one the next time I'm not good enough. And then, I mean, I got it. I got to put that one over the fence. It's just a terrible job. We lost the game because of me. Well, not because of you.

It's a team game. Listen, I'm trying to be accountable. I'm trying to learn from Zach Berman. Sure, sure. Not good enough. You win together, you lose together. But it's okay to take responsibility for it. I can respect that.

Yeah. So that's on me. You'll play next week, next Monday? Yeah. Nice. Okay. I'm eager to hear how it went. I mean, I could not be more eager to get back out there.

I mean, I've been thinking about that pitch for, what is it? Was it in your dream? Over 12 hours. Not in my dream, but probably in my head before I went to sleep. Do you remember all your dreams? I do, yes. Really? And that's actually, it's one of the questions I ask my kids.

Each morning is, what did you dream about? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because it's actually pretty revealing about what's on your mind. Yeah. What did you dream about last night, Zach? I'm embarrassed to say. It involved the kickoff.

I'll put it that way. When you say it like that, It makes it seem like it was a naked kickoff. Why do you take that leap? Because you say, well, that's all I'm going to say. No, it's weird that on June 18th, I have a dream about an Eagles kickoff. But it was the, there was a design to the play. Britt and Covey returned for a touchdown.

Some real sick stuff. Yeah. I don't know what made me think. Actually, I think because, as I said, sometimes there's things in your subconscious. So all my ride back last night, I was thinking about potential topics for some show ideas. And one of the things I was think about was kickoffs and different, like, who could be a, who could help with kickoff strategy. I was wondering if we should talk to Adam Hogue from Chicago. He's a special team's coach in high school.

Oh. So anyway, so this was in my mind. And then as I, as I wake up this morning, Britt and Covey returned to kickoff for a touchdown. but there was a reverse on the play. I don't need to get into it, but. It's wild to me that you remember your dreams this specifically. Yeah. Good for you.

Yeah. Julia, do you remember your dreams? I do. Really? Yeah, and I can lose a dream too, so I can go in and out of dreams sometimes, which is not always good. Wow. Yeah. Sound off in the chat.

You guys remember your dreams? You don't be good for you, Beau. You should write down when you wake up. Well, it's interesting to say that I sec, because I actually have one from the other day. Ooh. that was it was a scary dream okay and I wrote down Disney dream that's the the title of the note and here's what it says Jane hurt slow moving knew they were to blame surveillance state wow your dreams are a lot different than my dreams okay so there you go that's the that's the full arc of that story and I don't remember much else about it I remember being I remember like Jane had been kidnapped by Disney or something like that. I hope that doesn't happen.

I, um, oh well, I don't want to, I don't want to propose, but I don't want to propose that we talk about our dreams every day, but I think, uh, dream of the week. How about that? And inordinate, the next dream of the week. An inordinate amount of my dreams are about the Eagles or work. Like, some might say the Eagles are your work. Yeah, no, but like something with a show, uh, or something like specifically about the You have recurring dreams?

I mean, recurring characters, but not recurring dreams. Yeah. Okay. How often are Julia and I in your dreams? Not often. Not often. Not often. Not often.

You happen to be in. But more than you might hope. You were in a dream on Sunday night. You were in a dream. Okay. Let's hear it. I'm not saying that on air. I will mention it often.

Now I've got to know what happened. Yeah. I will be happy to tell you, but not on air. Really? Not on air. Yeah, it's nothing bad. It has to do with, like, has to do with the job, but not on air. Okay.

Yeah. Well, maybe the reason I can't remember my dream, Zach, is because I've been sucking back too many Miller Lights. Because a lot has changed over the years, but one thing that hasn't is the great taste of Miller Light. Another thing that hasn't changed is that it remains less filling. So what is the best thing about the original light beer? Miller Light sparked this debate all the way back. in 1975 and we still haven't settled it. The good news though, it doesn't really matter because you get the best of both worlds.

Miller Light had a couple of Miller Lights during the game last night. Maybe that's the reason I popped out. Maybe that's why he popped out. Probably not because that hasn't been a problem in the past. But Miller Light keeps it simple. Undeatable quality, great taste, only 96 calories, that great classic taste that you know and love, less filling. It's the beer that strips away. Everything you don't need and holds on to what matters most. A light beer that tastes like beer. Less filling and only 96 calories. The original light beer since 1975.

You don't have to choose what's best. Miller Light has great taste and is less filling. Tastes like Miller Time to get Miller Lite delivered right to your door. Visit millerlight.com slash p.h.ly birds. Or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces, fewer calories and carbs than premium light beer, as Julia cracks one right now. There are times when you have your prescription and you're down to, you know, the last like three or four pills, let's say, and you're doing the math and you say that, you know, do I need to, do I have time in three or four days to go to my local right aid? Do I need to call ahead of time to make sure it's in stock?

Well, the great thing with Rite Aid is that when you have a My Pharmacy account at Rite Aid, you can refill your prescription, schedule a vaccine, get personalized care recommendations, sign up for prescription notifications. All you need to do to get started is a prescription at Riteite. Get started at RiteAid.com slash MyFarmacy. I mentioned that feeling that you have when you're down to the last few pills or whatever it may be in your prescription. That's why you can enroll an automated courtesy refill.

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Restrictions apply. All right. Do we have Trevor? Not yet. Okay. We have him in a minute, Zach. a plus grade for the Eagles draft Trevor Sycambeamon, pro football focus

how about that? It's as high as it gets. Yeah, well, we'll hear Trevor's thoughts, but first off, Trevor did an outstanding draft guide. That was a great resource for me preparing for the draft, but they loved them.

Trevor and pro football and pro football focused. Love them some Cooper de Gene. I mean, they thought Cooper de Gene was a top 10 player in this draft. So for the Eagles to get him in number 40 overall shows the value relative to what PFF thought. So it's going to be interesting hearing his perspective.

They were also particularly bullish on Quinnian Mitchell. So you can imagine where that A plus grade came from there. Trevor has done a great job with draft coverage. And then I've been reading his work recently. And also has some intriguing positional rankings that we're going to get into it. Yeah, it caught my attention in particular, the edge rush ranking. So we'll get that. And if we do have some time, you know me.

I love to sneak in 2025 questions. Whenever we talk to Dane Bruegler, I always have on next year's draft, right? And so I've already done some work. We actually have an episode coming up this summer, specifically looking at the 2025 draft that date will be, I believe, July 9th. It's not set in stone, but on my calendar here, July 9th will be 2025 NFL draft day. So anyways, looking forward to getting into that. You know what they call the Trevor Sycamah fans?

Sycamos. Yes. Nice, Zach. Good for you. Yes. There you go. I spent five years with you. I can pick that up.

The sycamos. You could do sickos with two Ks, but I think sycamos is good. Sycamos, I like that. Sickos with two Ks, that'd be good too. All right. Well, we'll do it for the show today. That's a good go-to, isn't it?

All right. Let's talk of this out then before Trevor comes on. He has his quarterback rankings. And, you know, we were doing this the other week with Anthony. Anthony. Anthony loves this. Anthony loves this topic. Yes. You know, where would you rank Jalen Hertz?

And I think it's a little different. I think I think Trevor's was for 2020-4 only, whereas Anthony's is more like next two years, next three years. But his Jailen Hertz at number nine, I believe, one spot behind Aaron Rogers, one spot ahead of C.J. Stroud. And when we went through this exercise in the green room, as it were, I think you had Hertz at 10. and I had him at like 12, something like that,

I guess we'll find out. Yeah, so I, I liked her a little more than you did. You like C.J. Stroud more than I do. True. It's not that I dislike C.J. Stroud. I just, I do want to see a little bit more, but then it's kind of hypocritical because I'm a big Caleb Williams guy. In any event, we'll have a fun conversation about that.

All right. Well, I think we do have Trevor now. Trevor Sykima of Pro Football Focus. How we do it? We got audio? Hmm. We can't hear you, Trevor. Sorry about that. Once he's testing it out, he's a pro. He knows what he's doing.

All right. Can you guys hear me now? There we go. Yeah, it's worth the wait. Looking good, sounding good. How we doing, Trevor? Incredible what happens when you press the right pub. Beautiful.

So we were talking about the quarterback rankings just before you came on. So we might as well start there. You put out your quarterback rankings. Jalen Hertz at number nine, one spot ahead of C.J. Stroud, one spot behind Aaron Rogers. Tell us, I guess, first of all about, your process as you went through this exercise. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different ways to judge quarterbacks.

And I don't say that as sort of a cop-out for these guys, but you have to have a lot of different categories in which you evaluate these quarterbacks because there's so many things that can be the smallest margin of error or the smallest thing that could take them over the top because especially when we talk about guys in the top 10, these are deep playoff and even Super Bowl caliber quarterbacks. And so it's truly like those little X-factor things that can sometimes make all the difference. And it makes for fun debates because sometimes there's players who you can have a number nine who other people might say, oh, you got to have them in the top five and be like, all right, let's hear the argument.

You hear it. And it's very sound. You go, okay, I don't know. It's necessarily disagree with you. So there's a lot of things to go into it. For Hertz, the reason why I like him so much and I have to put him in the top 10 of this list is obviously the success that he has had with the team over the last couple of years. So part of what you can do for this. quarterback evaluation, and I do try to do this a little bit, is if you take the guy out of the system,

you know, what is he? Right? If you were to take a player and kind of put him behind average offensive line, average wide receivers, average running backs, right? It's kind of that baseball wins above average metric where how much value does a guy really bring. Hertz is a player who I feel like could have success elsewhere in the league. Now, that's not to say that it'd be everywhere, right? I think that certain situations and play callers and matters, but I trust Hertz arm. I trust how he sees the field. I trust the dual threat ability that he has,

how he doesn't like to put the ball in harm's way. You know, like there's a lot of things that Jalen Hertz does very, very well to where whether it was the great success that he has had over the last two years while in Philly or if he, to picture him elsewhere, this is still somebody who I feel you can build a team around who can get you where you want to go,

which is, of course, conference championship game. and even to Super Bowls and Super Bowl victory. So Jalen just brings a lot to the table. And I think the reason why he maybe is a little bit lower on this list than some people might say is just it was a little bit less precise of a year from him this past year. And I know he was playing through pain. He was playing through injury. So that goes into it.

It's why I couldn't drop him too far. But that little bit of dip in, I think overall efficiency from Hertz last year is probably why I have him more towards the back end of the top 10 where some people might consider him more that middle tier or top five player. I like the way you frame the tiers as far as the Mahomes tier, then the elite quarterbacks and the postseason caliber quarterbacks, which is the category that you had Hertz in, and then the melting pot of starters. So the way I'll frame this question is,

what will it take for Hertz to get into that elite tier? And what would be the, I don't know, if the caution flags is the right way to frame it, but for him to drop to that melting pot of starters? It really just comes down to consistency and efficiency for him. And I know that's a really simple answer. But again, when you talk about the quarterbacks who are really within this entire top 10, for me, it comes down to a lot of like, are you sustaining really great consistent efficient success?

And for Hertz, again, it was a really good 2022 season where they made the Super Bowl run. And he was a big reason why. I know it was a great team, but he was a big reason why last year, he was in no way. bad, but I felt like it was a little bit less of an efficient year, a little bit less of an explosive year from him specifically. And if, you know, he bounces back back to here in 2024 and even has just a little bit better of a season, well, then you go, okay, sample size is much bigger now. Because at PFF, I think when people talk about the grades and the data and things like that, they don't take into account as much. You have to have a big sample size in order

for the data to really be true. Now, sometimes you can get lucky and you can have a smaller sample size and it can be a predecessor for like great success or even failure that is forthcoming. But when you have bigger sample sizes, when you have multiple years where you can say, this is how a player is playing, then obviously you have more confidence in the data itself and how it reads. So for Hertz, he's been playing in an elite level, in my opinion, for these last two years. Again, I like the 2022 season more than I like the 2023 season.

season. But if you give him another year and he is still playing at a top 10 caliber level, well, now all of a sudden you're consistently talking about a guy who has a very, very high floor that you can expect every single year. And we know the ceiling is somebody who can reach a Super Bowl like they have already done back in 2022 with him. So to me, the answer to that question, not to kind of brush it off, but it's just consistency. It's just longevity in what he is already doing as one of the best dual-treat quarterbacks in the game. You continue to take care of the ball. You continue to bring a lot of really great value in the first downs that you can manufacture with your legs. Show how much value you have your team in every single area.

Hertz is one of those players. It's hard to look at a category and be like, yeah, Hertz doesn't bring this to the table because he has showcased it over the last two years. Just need to see more of it. Yeah, in that in that right up, you talk about the raw data. There's some interesting breakdowns of like the pass attempts that that Jillyn Hertz has, 20 yards down field, left, right, center, you know, 10 yards down field. And that, that middle of the field area where Jalen Hertz has been described as like sort of being averse from throwing the ball

like 10 to 20 yards. You guys had it at 27 of 31 last year, which is insane for three touchdowns and one interception. Now I think you could probably say there's some selection bias. Like maybe Jalen's only going to throw those if they're wide open because he doesn't love to throw those

but it's just sort of an interesting portrait of the way that he threw the ball last year. As for the edges, which you also put out, several Eagles related interesting nuggets here on this ranking. And let's start with, it seems like you're pretty high and pretty bullish on Bryce Huff, who you have at number 14, a spot behind Joey Bosa and a spot ahead of Bradley Chubb.

You believe, I guess, that with more playing time for Bryce Huff, we can expect the same sort of rate of production? It's hard to not, right? I mean, you talk about data sometimes being a good predictor of what's to come. Bryce Huff over the last two years, has been one of the best passers in the NFL in terms of winning one-on-one. Now, you can say to yourself, okay, well, the Jets put him in advantage situations to do that. He was more of a specialized pass rusher, but he's still dominating, right?

So if I see him now, we've got multiple years of really great production from him, that pass-rish win percentage, he has 20 in both of the last two years. And combined, he has one of the highest pass-rish-win percentages of any defensive lineman in the NFL. why would I think that's going to be any different from him going from New York to Philadelphia, where the defensive line is still stacked. They're still going to put him in a really great position to succeed. We are, I thought what was able to do with Hassan Redick. So whether he's playing more of a full-time edge rusher role for them,

or if at the very least, he's just kind of being what Hassan Redick has been for the last couple of years, that's successful. We've already seen that in New York. And so when you have a player who can win, that consistently as a pass rusher. It's so, so valuable. And so, yeah, more snaps will see that passers win percentage number can remain high doing on the role that they truly want to give him,

especially in this first year with him in this system. But to me, I have to have faith because those numbers were just so impressive for the last couple of years. He can't really deny what he's been able to do. And then Josh Sweat was 31st on that list. And Sweat, as you mentioned, in the write-up did not play as well. in 2023 as in in in 2022 the Eagles had him take a pay cut in order to keep him on the team this is still a 27 year old with you know the i i know you're deep in the draft and the the measurables jump out right

that was the case coming out of florida state he's a good development story throughout his his career to get to this point but where do you see josh sweat as as far as as as this point in his career and where he stands among the edge rushers in the NFL. There's a lot of guys that I considered here for the back part of this top 32 is somebody who you kind of mentioned it. You know, coming out of Florida State, he's got that really high athletic profile to him. I know he's been through some injuries, I think through his career when he was in college and also

at the NFL level. But yeah, I do believe that the ceiling is pretty high for him. And even though I was looking up his numbers over the last couple of years, you mentioned it in the write-up, I say, okay, the 20-23 season, not as high of a pass-rush grade, not as effective as he was the year before, but still that pass-rish win percentage,

which I give a lot of weight to because it's how often you are winning one-on-one, no matter what one-on-one you have in front of you, that was a career high for Josh Huffler, sorry, for Josh Swett last year. So to me, that tells me, okay, well, yeah, it was a little

bit of a dip in production than what we saw the year before, but if he continues, if he is continuing to win a one-on-one, then that means that he is continuing to evolve in the pass-rush moves, the pass-rush counters, most importantly, the pass-rish plan, right? Not just figuring out what you're going to do after the ball is snapped, which I think a lot of NFL play. I mean, you mentioned that I'm a draft guy. Something that always drives me crazy is when these great pastures are just like,

ah, yeah, they'll snap the ball and I'll figure it out. I'll just win off of athleticism. And that works at the college level, but it just doesn't work at the NFL level. You've got to have much more of a plan to you. And so for sweat to continue to elevate that one-on-one win percentage, to me, just means, okay, he is continuing to go in the right direction. He has not plateaued yet in how he views pass rushing as a plan. And sort of the, I'll say time he wants to put into his craft beyond just being physically healthy and physically gifted. And to me, those are guys that, especially when you pair that with really good physical athletic traits, I'm always going to bet on those guys.

I'm always going to be sort of biased towards giving them a chance and ranking them a little bit higher because I got a full package. So you mentioned, you know, a draft guy by trade. That's where your heart is, right? So A plus for the Eagles for their draft this year, obviously starts with Quinnion, Mitchell and Cooper DeGine at the top. What was it that you love so much about what the Eagles did? I mean, it is those two guys that sort of set the tone.

I mean, if they would have drafted nobody after those first two guys, I think I still would have given the Eagles an A for how they went navigating this. Now, you can say that there's some luck that goes into that. There's a lot of teams that pass on these players for them to be available. But Philly still navigated the draft very well. You know, I think that we saw what was the 49ers who kind of put out the Adam, or no, it was it was Washington, right, who put out the Adam Peters video of him going back and forth with, with Howie Roseman and how he's just like, all right, okay, all right, hangs up the phone.

Okay, the deal is different. Okay, hangs the phone. You could just how he works it. It's not just the fact that Dijin was available. It's how they go about getting him and at a really nice value. And that continues to allow the Eagles to have a lot of picks, be aggressive when they want to during these draft processes. So, look, Gwinyan Mitchell and Cooper DeGine were my number eight and number nine

overall players that I had in the class. And they get both of these guys, you know, much, much, much later in the 20s and then number 40s. So the value alone was so big. for them. Then you throw in the fact that this was Philly's, I don't want to say this is our only area of need, but this is the area of need that they had to hit hard. And they do that with two of the biggest steals in the draft, in my opinion. It gives them a ton of secondary flexibility. It allows them to kind of do what they want with the rest of the defense.

Obviously with Vic now in there calling the defensive stuff, you want to have those versatile players. You could do a lot of different things for you. And I know it's tough for rookies to step in on that defensive scheme and really be able to hit the ground running. But if I had to bet on two guys. I mean, it would be these two guys. I'm my top two corners in the draft for a reason. So to me, I just, I absolutely love what they were able to do at the top. And then I think, you know, the other players that they got, I think a really good value or really good scheme fits for them, right? I love the Jeremiah Trotter pick, even beyond just the legacy of how heartwarming it is.

I like him as a traditional linebacker in the middle. I don't know if he has the athleticism to really be a full-time linebacker at the next level, but he sees the game so well. You give him a chance to be able to be that. Jalix Hunt is one of my favorite developmental edge rushers that we have in this draft. And it's not like Philly needs more defense, good defensive linemen, right? I feel like they're just, they're hogging all the high potential guys. But Jalick's Hunt from Houston Christian is somebody who, man, he played safety early on in his college career.

And then he moves down to the defensive end spot. He plays very, very well. You could tell that this kind of like the conversation we were having a minute ago, a player who is just winning off of athleticism right now. but if you teach him those pass rush plans, he is a dense dude, man. I mean, like when he makes contact with you, you could just see it on film. It's like you're hitting a brick wall. And it's just like, that's just the muscle density that this dude has.

He is so twitched up, the ceiling is so high form. So even as just a specialized pass rusher, I think he's a fantastic pick. And then you got the two skill position guys and I, Smith and Johnny Wilson, two players that I think could really stand out in this league. I think Wilson is a smooth mover for a player who is. 6 foot 6, 6 foot 7. And Anaya Smith, to me, has a really good skill set, especially a ball carrier vision to potentially be a full-time kick returner

with these new kick return rules. So it's why you just go down the line and not only do it like, yeah, I mean, like, and that's why it's an A plus for me, because it's just like every single position, either it was excellent value, either it was an excellent fit, or it's a swing for the fences type of talent pick that I really loved. And you see that throughout this draft from Howie, Roseman. That's why I had to get them at A plus.

Now, I'm curious specifically about Cooper the Gene here. And first off, I'll say to you a great job on the draft guide graphically. The write-ups, the data there. It was awesome to read.

Cooper the Gene specifically, you were probably higher on than industry consensus, considering him a top 10 player. I believe he was your top corner in the draft. And it seemed based on your work that you did not have reservations about him playing on the outside. What specifically about Cooper the Gene made you confident that he was that high on your board? There are some players

that I think could play outside corner better than him. You know, like I think Terry on Arnold's a little bit more twitchy. Quina Mitchell is somebody who I think has a little bit better stop, start athleticism to him to maybe play, you know, in the hip pocket when you're playing man coverage on the outside against NFL receivers with NFL speed. But I think that DeGian's speed is adequate enough to play on the outside. Will he give up a couple of catches that maybe other corners wouldn't? Sure. Okay.

I will admit that. But it's the fact that it's this rare versatility that he has. You know, it's the fast footwork while being 205 pounds and over six feet and between 6 1 and 6.2, right? I mean, like, it's, it's the fact that this guy is not afraid at all to be physical and come up to tackle, right? because I think a lot of people look at corners and when we evaluate them during the draft and they go, okay, you know, I don't, I don't really love this guy.

He's not really big enough to play on the outside. Let me call him a slot corner. Let me just move him inside. You got to realize that if you play slot corner, you're closer to the line of scrimmage. You're going to fit the run, right? I mean, you're much closer to the box. And so for Dijin, that's such a big plus for me because he's one of the best tackling corners, if not the best tackling corner that we had in this past draft class.

So not only will he come up on wide receiver screens when he's an outside corner, he'll come downhill and tackle these guys. If you ever put him in the slot and you wanted to slide him in that direction, he is fitting the run better than most corners, or I would argue, any corner that you were going to find in this draft class. Then you throw in the fact that if you give him space, if you put him in off coverage, if you make him a cover three guy, maybe a pseudo safety and a three safety set,

you allow him to keep his office. is on the quarterback. I mean, the way that he breaks on the ball, the natural athleticism that he has, the elite ball skills, and how he transforms back into a wide receiver and running back that he was throughout his middle school and high school career, I mean, when you transform back into that, the second you get the ball in your hands as a defender, you see production like you saw from him in the return game after interceptions that led to multiple touchdowns as well. So to me, I just think he is, we're not giving enough credit to. how versatile this guy is.

And even if you can go find some better outside corners than him, it is the fact that I can envision Cooper DeGine being a starter or potentially even an all-pro type of player at outside corner, at slot corner, and a safety. And there's just not many players that I can say that for in almost any draft class. So to me, that's why I love them so much, somebody who brings so much to the table as a true chess piece for your defense. Zach, I will let you ask your 2025 question.

Yes, so I'm already doing my 2025 draft work, not as much as you are, I imagine. I've already seen your pieces on there. Now, the Eagles, you never know what spot they're going to take. But I said after the draft, the Eagles fans should be paying attention to the edge rushers in next year's class. It seems, I'm curious, your take a great edge rusher class. This is a position that the Eagles prioritized, number one,

and number two with a good chance Josh Sweets not here beyond the season Brenda Graham's retiring there are questions at that position who are the edge rushers that like Eagles fans should have on their radar going in to the college football season and if I can throw one more in there offensive tackle is another spot that should be on the Eagles

radar based on how much they prioritize that spot and there are questions there long term so who are the old tackles that should be on the radar going into the college season So I will say, we haven't gotten to film evaluations for summer scouting for edge rushers or offensive tackles yet. But we have a database list. And there's a lot of guys that kind of came back from last year that I know a little bit about JT. Tuimolo, Molo from Ohio State, Jack Sawyer from Ohio State. Landon Jackson from Arkansas, princely Oman Mielan, who is at Florida.

Now he is at Ohio State. Those are all players. Thank you. thank you. I have a lot of practice talking about all of these names. So there are a lot of these players who very high potential guys and like all those guys they named, I had, I'm pretty sure I had all of those guys I just named in my top 75 last year. And they all opted to come back. So another year for them. These are, you know, potential first round, second round players. And then you throw in James Pierce Jr., the standup outside lineback for

Tennessee who's incredibly explosive. Nick Scowarton, who is a, I believe, former five-star edge rusher now at Texas A&M, Mike Lilliams from Georgia, who had an incredible true freshman season, a little bit more quiet of his senior actor, but somebody who's got that potential to maybe even be an edge one candidate, maybe even like a number one overall type of candidate for them. Abdul Carl from Penn State, where's the Micah Parsons number for Penn State number 11, and they're moving them to Edge full time this year.

He's got that similar type of, well, I don't want to say similar. type of athleticism because it's crazy to say that. But he's in that conversation of a guy who has that same sort of athleticism. So really deep, rich, edge rusher class because of all of the guys that came back from last year. And then when it comes to the offensive line, like I said, I haven't gotten to these guys yet. We're getting to them in the next couple of weeks. But I know people are very, very excited about both of the offensive tackles for LSU,

Will Campbell, Emery Jones. Those guys could both be first round picks. Kelvin Banks, Jr., is a former five-star offensive tackle who's playing at Texas. I got a little bit of a look at him, and I'll just tell you, when I was watching Queer's last year, I'm watching Queen Newers film, and there were a couple of reps where I go, okay, who's the offensive tackle? Like, who's the right tackle over here? Because he keeps popping on tape.

And anytime that happens, you take note of a guy, you write him down, you do a little bit more information. I go, oh, okay, great. He was a five star. Of course he was. Yeah, he's already standing out as a true sophomore. So those are a handful of names to know at the top of the edge rush class in the offensive tackle class. All right, I have one more off the board one for you, Trevor. Now, I want you to

imagine you have, you have been studying Ben Solek for a long time, okay? Ben Solect, the prospect. And you are writing a report on the draft for Ben Solek transitioning from adulthood to fatherhood. Okay. So what are the, the projectable traits that you think are going to serve him well in this transition to a new league? Ben is going to be an unbelievable great father because he already does so many cheesy dad things. I mean, he's very into gardening. He's already into smoking meats. He loves exotic cheeses. Okay, this is somebody who I feel like would tuck in their shirt almost any chance they have to. So he's already got that dad vibe to him, right? He's into bird watching. And of course, the actual traits, Ben is one of the most loving, kind, thoughtful human beings I have ever met in my

life and a wonderful friend. And so, yes, those are, those are the scouting reports. He was playing a pro. The dad humor, it's already there. Oh my goodness. It's, it is, it is as smooth of a transition as you can possibly get. Like I said, the dad jokes are already there. Ben, Ben, Ben's going to be a fantastic dad.

And I obviously can't wait to see that family grow. All right. Well, Trevor, thank you so much for, for taking the time to join us today. We will, everybody follow you on Twitter. Tell them how people can pay attention. at Tampetray on Twitter X, whatever you want to call it, as well as Instagram. Those are the two places to find it. And then, hey, you know, if any listeners want to get more in on the 25 draft and what we're talking there,

the NFL Stock Exchange podcast on YouTube with myself and Connor Rogers. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Well, speaking of Zach's dreams of, you know, where you going with this? Weird, naked kickoff return. and all that good stuff.

They were fully uniformed, though. You can't prove that. Take my word for it. I will not lie. I cannot lie. Okay, fair enough. All right. So fully clothed kickoff returns, but the football was naked.

Anyway, those things happen in Zach's dreams, and Zach is a healthy sleeper. And if you want to be a healthy sleeper, too, well, you can go to Sleep Healthy PA. Because at Sleep Healthy PA, they are committed to helping Philadelphia residents. stop the snore and find solutions for sleep apnea that will allow you to rest well and improve your health. What causes sleep apnea? We have talked about this for the past couple weeks. There's a little choke point in the throat that causes snoring that it's sort of like the kink in a garden hose. And Dr. Andrew Cohen is a board certified doctor in dental sleep medicine and his staff will work one-on-one with you to provide first-class care that will meet your needs.

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You're a big sunglasses guy? I think I wear normal-sized sunglasses. Now, you know what I mean? I remember the first time I ever put on sunglasses, I was reluctant to wear sunglasses for a while. Okay, why? Well, at the time, I wore glasses. Like, you know, from time to time, I needed glasses.

And so I didn't have, you know, I couldn't see as well wearing sunglasses. But then also I thought it was I thought sunglasses, I hate to admit this, were more for like style than for substance or or for utility. Okay. And then there was a day when I remember vividly, I was on the beach and my aunt. How old were you? I was too old to admit this.

I was in college. Okay. And my aunt, I don't think that's that crazy. My aunt said, you're always like squinting at the beach. Like you have these, these light eyes. Why don't you wear sunglasses? and I was like, aren't sunglasses for style? And she said, she tells me to try them on.

And I put them on and I'm telling you, Bo, it was like... Wow, this was a before and after for you. It was like the scene in Pleasantville where all of a sudden they start seeing in color, right? I was like, wait. I believe the first date I ever went on was to the movie Pleasantville. Oh, we got on that. Actually, that's not true. Titanic was the first.

Really? Tough ending on a first date. It was the first date with my second middle school girlfriend. Wait. Wait, you went on a... Yeah, Titanic came out when when we were in 7th. grade. Correct.

You went on a date in seventh grade? Yes, seventh and eighth grade was big for me, and then it was pretty much until like senior year of high school after that. But like dates, not like, you know, I'll see you at this party. Like, you're actually going on dates. Yeah. Wow. Good story about making out during the other sister, which is not necessarily a romantic movie.

What's the story? That's it. That's it. You made out there. Did you just bring that up because you want to, you know, flex about making out? No, I just think it's funny.

Like all the movies. The other sister. What's the other sister about? You can Google it. Let me Google it. Joy, do you know what's about? Okay.

The other sister is, let me see here. It's a romantic comedy. Read the logline, yeah. It's romantic comedy. Yeah, but it's, um, yeah,

let me see. here. I think Pleasantville, Titanic, the other sister, and I think there's one other one other movie that I can't think of. Gotcha. Man, look at you.

Yeah, my times. Bo, all this time. You haven't... You mean all this time? You would unpack your middle school days taking girls to the other sister and making out with them. And shout out to the Mamerinic movie theater, I think.

All right, there you go. There you go. Good for you. I guess. Good for you, Bo. Yeah. Is it? absolutely yes

yeah speaking of good for you Zach here's the one of the things that we didn't get to in the mailbag last week okay okay from this was sent to us from a couple people by the way great interview with that Trevor I appreciate you my Trevor thanks again to him for joining from Arnold Schwarzenegger's newsletter did you see this I don't subscribe to you heard about this no I'm not

Arnold Schwarzenegger's news letter Instant health boost he says run don't walk next time you see a flight of stairs race yourself to the top. Yeah. Research suggests that sprinting up the stairs just a few times per day can improve heart health,

cardiovascular fitness, and lower blood pressure. When we talk about minimum effective dose, this is about as minimum as it gets. Participants would sprint up a flight of stairs, sprints equals run as fast as you can, for 20 seconds, walk down, and repeat two more times.

Yeah, absolutely. should. My freshman year of college, I didn't want to take the elevator. I just took the stairs. I was reading a book at the time about, I think I said this on the show about Sebastian Telfare. And that he did 31 flights of stairs. I couldn't do 31, but yeah. But didn't you like only stick to that for a week or something like that? Well, I stuck to that plan of like, because I just went my floor. I was on that year. I was on the third floor. And so I said instead of taking the elevator, I'm just going to do the stairs, up and down three floors. Okay.

But no, I originally was going to go, I was in Brewster Hall for all the Syracuse Alums watching it. And I said, I'm going to, I'm going to go up and down every day, all the stories of stairs. And it didn't last as long as I wanted it to be. And so you and Arnold are sympathico here. Well, no, I mean, Arnold Schwarzenegger is in far better shape than I am. I can't say we're in Sypatico, but the idea of, yeah, running upstairs, I think there's nothing wrong with that. It sounds like a good idea. You know.

Where's Bryce Huff on your address? I don't want to say this, but, you know. Yeah, where's Price Huff on your address your rankings, but? Republican governor of California. You're now on, you guys are, you've chosen a side. I thought you were, I thought you were trying to not choose sides. Well, because I said go upstairs. Because I said you run upstairs.

Listen, I'm just saying. Now I'm just saying. First off, he hasn't been a governor in a long time, okay? Like, if Gavin Newsom goes upstairs, I would tell you the same thing, right? So it has something to do with the... He's only going upstairs if he can find some like hair product to slick his hair back with. We're staying away from this conversation, okay?

Where would Bryce Softby? I don't know. I mean, I can't go through the actual. Okay. Are you surprised that he's the top 15 edge rusher on there? Well, what I'm really surprised at is like Brandon Graham is at like 23 or something like that. Yeah, I would not put him that high.

Yeah, I mean, he's not playing enough. I think Josh sweats better than... I think part of that is like their... The metrics they use. Well, like, you know, run defense and past defense are weighted sort of equally. Sure. Brennan remains a very good run defender. Yep.

But yeah, that's not how I would wait things. Yeah, I think Josh Sweat's better than Brennan Graham. Not BG. Yeah. Always enjoyed our conversations. Right now. Right now, yes. I mean...

You pause. You think the peak of Josh Sweat is better than the peak of Brandon Graham? Brandon Graham was what was better now. Brandon Graham was was not a double-digit sack performer until year 12 or year 13 of his career right? Josh Sweat hit that in year five of his career. You really think you might be making this case. No, I'm not all I'm just saying, but the run defense is an important part of it and the systems they were in.

Brandon Graham, you're not, I mean, Brandon Graham is an outstanding player. Has the most important sack in the Eagles Super Bowl history. You can actually read a chapter on that in. For the franchise, Philadelphia Eagles coming out. Which comes out when? On September 24th, wherever books are sold. But as I said, you can reach out to me and I'll hook you up with the copy. All right.

I have one other leftover question from last week that I think we can take a few minutes on. Okay. The question was from hip hopopotamus, how many turkeys on Slay being traded. Yeah, that surprised me that question. But I want to reframe this for you. And we've talked about how I sort of think that Ely like Ricks could be this guy. But if I tell you, for certain that the Eagles are trading a corner before week one.

Now I want you to allocate the turkeys on every corner on the roster. Who's most likely to be traded? How would you go about doing that? And let's include Bradbury in this conversation. Good question here. I would say... So you got Slay, you got Bradbury. Yeah, I would say 20.

You got Ringo, which is unlikely, but you got Job, you got Ricks, you got Isaiah Rogers, essentially. I would say 30 for Bradbury. Okay. Because I think he's on the roster right now to be traded, right? That would be there right there. And he would not take that much. I would say 25 for Ricks. Okay.

I would say 15 for Rogers. What am I at right now? 70. 70. Let's go. Slay, Ringo, and Job left. Ringo. They're not trading ringgo.

Yeah, 10 for Slay. Okay. 20 for Job. or even you're going to give wrinkgo five five for job five for everyone else McPherson Hall I think you've left turkeys on the table I've left numbers on the table okay so let's let's be you're only at 85 right now okay so let's add seven to Bradbury and let's add oh and let's add eight to ricks okay so 37 Bradbury 33 ricks yes 10 sleigh 15 Rogers five job

Okay. I think I would say, I guess, I mean, Bradbury is a possibility. I would say 35 Bradbury. He's probably the most likely. But I'm going to go 36 Ricks just for S&Gs. Rogers, I think, is the next most likely. I'm at 71. Let's call it 25. Let's do Job. I don't think they're trading sleigh. Although, I don't know. Is it insane? It's not insane. I don't know that his contract is structured that it could be,

it could be traded. Yeah, they, I think the only scenario where they would trade Slay would be as if the three young guys are so good. Of course. Right. No, but also Slay is like inconsistent where they start saying,

you know what, maybe we're better off. Like I don't think they're trading Slay out of luxury. I think they're trading Slay out of concern if that was the case. And I, and I wouldn't be concerned about it. That's the benefit of having Rogers, right? Like if you think you've got Ringo and Mitchell and Dachene all ready to go,

but you also have Rogers. But yeah, I mean, he's a captain. Exactly. They look at him as a, like, I don't think that they need Dary Slay to be as good as he was two years ago this year. Like, I think their eyes open about that this is a player in some level of decline, and he may not be able to stay on the field, but I would be surprised if they traded him. I enjoy talking to Slay, so I hope he's around that locker room. There you go.

Anybody else who think is likely to be traded? I would... I wouldn't frame it as likely to be. Okay. Unsurprising. Okay, so... Who would least surprise you. At least surprising.

Well, let's say like Fred Johnson. I don't know if someone's trading for Fred Johnson, but if they think Mackay Beckton's their swing tackle. Okay. Then I think they could be more apt. to moving him. Other than that, I don't think they have enough depth

at other spots. I mean, I don't think anyone trades for a Kenny Gainwell, but in theory, that's a player that I could see them moving. Here's one for you. Nacobo Dien. Okay.

Yeah, that's a good one. If Dean's not their starter, and they think Barks and Van Zuman are fines to backups, Dean certainly has his name appeal, change of pace, or I'm sorry, change of scenery type player. If you think you know this player best and you don't think that he's going to be a starting level player,

this is your chance to trade him for something resembling good value, potentially. You know, there's a story of, like there's a reason he hasn't been in the field. It's understandable if a team comes calling. I don't think that's crazy. I mean, I would be surprised. But if you're talking about a bigger level player that might be the one who makes a little bit of sense.

I don't think that is, I don't think that is crazy either. I was going to say if they had more edge-rushing depth, I would say Josh Sweat, but I don't think they have the depth there. The league already spoke on Josh Swett, yeah. To an extent. I mean, I think from a continent, you know, the league spoke about more than $12 million or, you know, $10 million a year. But if, if.

I mean, they basically hung a first. all sign on his neck and nobody traded for him. Yeah, at the contract that he was on. And now he's on a cheaper contract. Yeah. So in theory, in theory, he'd be more appealing in a trade situation, but he'd be more appealing to the Eagles. Yes.

Okay. Man, a lot of Josh, what shade on this? Well, I think everybody's riled up in. You need some shitty race when you talk about Jeff Sweat. Yeah. He's number 19 now. You know, that's tough. It's a tough look.

Why is that a tough look? It's a terrible number for him. The player makes the number. told me that? Nick Saban. Jason Kelsey. I did a piece on the origin of every, of the number of every player on the team.

Fun story to write, hunted down a lot of guys who were hard to get back then. But was able, but Kelsey was, I remember talking Kelsey, Kelsey's like, I had an old coach one time who said to me, who said to me, the player makes the number. So he did not care so much about that. that actually the best answer probably came from michael kendrick she gave me about like 12 minutes on the nice long as he's ever spoken he was just rolling on about 95 uh fletcher cox was interesting because i remember him saying and i did not know this at the time and i felt embarrassed as someone who covers the eagles that reggie white had wore 91 for the eagles at one point yeah and that that that was why

91 jumped out to him was that connection. Yeah, that was a fun piece to do. Maybe I, it's, it's been long enough. And there's been enough changes on the team. I did that in 2016. I think I can bring that back up now. There you go. All right.

Well, that'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.Y. Eagles podcast. Thank you to Trevor Sycambe for joining us and talking Eagles draft and some other ranking stuff. back tomorrow at noon. We are talking our head coach, or not head coach, our coaching staff rankings, similar to the rankings that we did yesterday

on offensive weapons. How do's Nick Siriani and Vic Fangio and Kellan Moore rank among the coaching staffs you would want leading your team in the league. We'll do that. And maybe we'll finally have time for Zach to break down that Thorel Lewis video. But if you are still in the mood

for some Philadelphia sports talk, head on over to the flyer's show, the PHY Flyers show, they're talking about exploring trade options with Cam Atkinson. Join Charlie and Bill, talk a little flyers, and then join us again tomorrow at noon. Bowulf, Zach Berman. Thanks to Julia, who has returned. Ha, ha, ha. We'll talk to tomorrow, and as always.

New temont. Nevos maimot. Nevoe ma'amon. Nevoe ma'amon.