PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | What Howie Roseman’s 105 picks tells us about the Philadelphia Eagles’ draft plans

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

Howie Roseman is entering his lucky 13th NFL Draft as the Eagles’ primary decision-maker, which means we have a long history of his preferences to study. For instance, he’s never used a first-round pick on a cornerback (and only one second-round pick). Will that change in 2024? Zach Berman and Bo Wulf dive into the Howie history to decipher the difference between dogma and circumstance. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The H.LY Eagles podcast on a rainy Wednesday. It's been raining all week, Zach, but it's not going to rain on our parade because we've got lots of Eagles. Tough to talk about. Bo Wolf, Zach, Berman. How you doing, Zach? Doing well. Excited for the show. Now you took a little sleep.

What did you take last night? You're feeling you got some sleep for the first time in a very long time. I took like an over-the-counter sleep medication type thing, a sleep tab is what it was called. I've never heard of this. I don't want to give free publicity that they can advertise for us, right? I mean, people pay good money to advertise. in the show. Sure.

I don't need to give a free promo to a Sleep Tab. Why do they call it a tab? It's just a pill? Yeah, it's just a pill. Why do they call it a tab, not a pill? It's not as catchy in the store. They're trying different kind of branding.

It's literally called the brand name and then Sleep Tab. Yes. So I had that, knocked me out, which was the intended goal. Yes. And slept later than typical this morning. But the problem is this. I've had mornings when I sleep three, four hours, when I get out of bed with more verve and zest than today, vigor than today, where that thing that leaves you drowsy.

Yeah. So I don't know what the afterlife is on that, but hopefully it's out of my system soon because I need to attack this day with enthusiasm. And I haven't been as enthusiastic as I would like to be, but I am pumped for the show. You look great, Zach. Nice you to say. You know, we've had a little situation going on in the building right now where the elevator is not working, and we are on the top floor. You would think from the way that every single one of us here makes it into the office that we're on like the 85th floor. We're on the seventh floor, and it's like everybody's like, oh, myself included, although I felt better today than yesterday.

Well, it's not necessarily the volume of stairs here. It's their steeper stairs than a typical staircase. Also, relatively narrow, which I think on the walk down makes it a little bit more harrowing than on the way up. Well, no, the walk down, there's one floor, maybe it's like the second floor or the first floor, where there's not much support underneath that wood. You don't know. Yeah, there, yeah. It's like it's like it looks like it was built last week. You're free.

You're going to tiptoeing like, I'm I going to crash through this bad boy? Is this how I go? You're going straight into the Philly source system, right? But, no. I find my, I have to, now when you go, are you on? Like on the narrow slats of stairs. I find myself mostly sort of duck walking going like feet out like this. Sometimes I go sort of side to side, but really more duck walking.

How are you doing it? No, when I go upstairs, I treat it. Not up, down. The down I find more tetris. I was going to say I treated like rocky steps when I go up. Like I sprint up to the, and then I catch my breath and sprint off. Really? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's why I always go up. Wait a second. Is that really what you're doing? I go upstairs with momentum, yes. It's like, because that's how you're supposed to, your body's supposed to lead into it.

You're like sprinting up the stairs? Not, no. With your stuff for work? Yeah, so I don't sprint up seven stories. I sprint up a story. Stop. Sprint up a story. Stop.

What? Yes, yes. This is the craziest thing I've heard. Everyone has different. Like it's like you're the valet boy again? No, first off, valet boy, it's little degrading. I mean, I was 17 years old at the time. Sounds like a boy to me.

I was a young man. But no, then on the way down, on the way down, I'm usually looking at my phone, honestly. So I'm not paying attention to how I'm walking. Julie, are you as flabbergasted as I am about to sprint up the stairs? Creepy? Crazy. Oh, I thought you say creepy. I was going to be like, I mean, imagine you were walking up the stairs and someone next to you, sprinted ahead of you,

and then just waited a couple minutes of the landing, and then sprinted again, and then waited at the land. By the way, what an odd duck. I do want to make a point that, so I put a meme in our Slack channel last night. Yeah, well, how about this? I think I've never seen this from you before. I put a meme up.

It gets the laughing emoji from multiple coworkers, not from you. You did not credit the meme. And I think it's because you are notoriously anti-office. I actually did mean to bring this up, I forgot about it. But like the office. It was a meme from, if you all remember, the episode, it's called Starmageddon.

It's a famous office episode. And there's a hilarious scene. There's two hilarious scenes that jump out. One, Stanley going up the stairs, and he's really struggling. He puffs the inhaler. Then there's one when Kevin is like looking at a diagram of how to go on staircases.

I didn't know which one to go with. Both memes were available. I went with the Stanley one. Because I thought it'd be funnier if I knocked our like endurance in our intelligence. But yeah, I was pumped. I used a meme. I don't typically do that.

I was, yeah, I actually meant to dig into this because, like, did you feel like, oh, I finally got something? I can finally do a meme, a gift, or was this like, we're a little bit nervous about it. This is not my personality. I don't know if I can. It's definitely not my personality. I was originally. I want to show that I'm one of the gang.

So this is how it works. Well, in solidarity of our group, I did want to control. in the Slack thread. And I tried going on YouTube to find that particular scene from Stamageddon. It's not clipped on YouTube, right? And so then I'm like, all right, well, let's see if there's a meme for this. And sure enough. Take the Kirk Cousins to see if he had it on hand.

Sure enough, there's a meme. I mean, the office, I'm not backing down for my love for the office. It's one of my four favorite shows. So. Where are the other two? The two, there's four. Well, I know, but we know that the West. wing is one of them.

Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah. The office, the West Wing, curbinge enthusiasm, and the wire. Okay. Okay. I thought you were continuing to tell the story. Yeah, so I'm saying. So, I mean, you can mock my love of the office. I'm not mocking your love of the office. I like the office too. Just. When I put that meme up, you did you, did you, did you let? I thought it was funny. I just, I apologize for not. I saw it right when you did it. And so I didn't, I didn't react right away. I got a little chuckle out of it. And I put a little bookmark in my head. I've got to ask Zach about posting a meme for the first time.

I'm afraid that I didn't return to it to see how many emojis it had gotten as a reaction. I'm so sorry for not having your back. No, no, no, that's okay. It just stood out to me that. That you were one of the few who did not find that interesting or funny. Is this like a Michael Jordan thing? You took that personally? No, I did not take it personally.

I just thought I would bring it up on the show. Wow. All right. So for all of those good pieces of advice that our friend Josh and Norris has given us about what's going to succeed on YouTube and get to the point right away. We're now nine minutes in and haven't touched on the Eagles at all in an episode where we've actually done a lot of prep work. So what we're going to do is talk about Howie Roseman's draft history.

Howie Roseman is entering his 13th draft in charge of the Philadelphia Eagles as the draft a decision maker. He has drafted 105 players in 12 years. We're going to look at some of the trends and try to separate Zach Dogman. what is something that Hallie Roseman believes in from circumstance. Even though Howard Roseman has a larger sample size than most general managers, it's still a relatively small sample size. Could these things be just more noise than, you know, something real? But before we get to that, you want to touch on the Stefan Diggs trade.

Yeah, so as I was driving in, I see this report. Adam Schaefter and Diana Rossini. I think Diana Rossini, I saw the trade terms from her first. I saw the trade from Adam first. I hope I'm crediting it correctly. But Stefan Diggs goes to the Vikings. I'm sorry, he goes to the Texans for the 2025 Vikings second round pick, the one that they got actually in the trade down that we spoke about last week.

So a 2025 second round pick. And there's some other trade, there's some other pick exchanges in there. What stands out to me about this deal, and Bo has been all over. it you have been all over it throughout this off season, that the veteran trade market is really not as fruitful as it once was. When you consider like wide receivers, edge rushers have gone for more in past years than they seem to this year. Now, I know contract and age are factors in this, right? But Keenan Allen goes for a fourth round pick. Now, that's a big contract he took on. Stefan Diggs goes for a, or Stefan Diggs rather, goes for a 20-25 second round pick.

Hassan Reddick goes for a conditional 2026 third round pick that can become a second. Logarius Sneed, who was playing on the tag, he goes for, what, a third and a fifth? Brian Burns goes for a second. I mean, you're not seeing teams give up these first round picks the way they have in the past. And so you wonder, is this a market correction? Or is this just specific to this offseason? And it's not sticky. I'm curious to see, but you were all over it.

in terms of saying that the veteran trade market is really not yielding what you would expect. Well, I think that's true in general. I actually don't have that takeaway from this trade. That doesn't feel like that much of a discount for a guy who is 30. Okay. At a position where skills can go quickly, and he didn't have a great year last year. Like, you know, in a good offense, he sort of fizzled the second half of the season. Like, that seems like a pretty fine.

Now, I think the, I'm curious about what the bills do moving forward because they don't have a lot of weapons on the outside now. Well, Curtis Samuel. I mean, it's a Shio Copati offense right now. That's exactly right. But that doesn't strike me as, like, that strikes me as fine value, especially relative to what Reddick got and like what Brian Burns got, like I would rather have those players at Ligerius Sneed than Stefan Diggs, to me, looks like he could be, you know, past his prime. I get it. I also get it from the Texas perspective. Yeah. Because you're not asking him to be a 1A. You've got two other guys who are. really good young receivers, so it's more of a nice package to build around CJ Stroud. I get it for both sides, but I didn't think that that was a crazy discount. Yeah, I mean, I think when you can't necessarily put it in these terms, but kind of like the general thing you hear is that when it's a following year's deal, it's a one-round discount, right? So a second round pick next year would be like a third round pick this year.

and if they traded Diggs for a third round pick this year, what would you feel? What would you think? Sounds about right. Sounds about right. Okay. I don't mean, you know, I object to the one-round discount thing, but. But that's typically the way it's explained.

Well, it's framed. I don't know if it's actually valued that way. I don't think you're as big on Diggs as I am. It seems that way. Yeah, seems that way. Just, is there something specific about him? You don't. He's been less productive, and again, he's getting older.

Okay. I don't know. Okay. He had a 60 catch season once, so you're in for life? Yeah, 60 catch season many times. I like Stefan Diggs. Is it Stefan or Stefan? I think it's Stefan.

Stefan, okay. I like Stefan Dix. Okay. Great. Want to talk about the Eagles? Yes, yeah. Before we get to the Eagles, let's talk Oli Popp and then we can really get into this whole thing in full force. Ollie Popp, you see it right here on the set.

Big fans of us. and we are of them. It's a nice symbiotic relationship. Olipop is the world's first functional soda with a classic soda taste and the benefits of plant-based fiber, prebiotics, and other botanical ingredients to support gut health. And listen, you're walking up seven flights of treacherous stairs? You better have good gut health. Oli-pop is a new kind of soda with only two to five grams of sugar and nine grams of fiber per can. Olipop is available online and available in almost 30,000 retailers nationwide,

including the most recent launch at all Wawa stores. So the next time you're popping in to get some gas, get beamed up, get some Oli Pop while you're there. Allie Pops debut in Wawa couldn't be more of a match made in heaven and a delicious, healthy drink meets a convenience store, both adored by a cult following. The two flavors debuting in Wawa, while that you can check out are classic root beer and strawberry vanilla, the two most popular

olipop flavors. Alipop is a new kind of soda. Two out of three Americans say they suffer from digestive issues, and 95% of Americans don't get the daily recommendation recommended amount of fiber. Oli Pop is tackling both of those with a drink that tastes just like soda. Research has linked some of those issues to poor gut health, so taking care of your microbiome may be one solution to. your digestion problems.

Use the code, P-H-L-Y-20 for 20% off your next Oli-POP order. The discount only applies to one-time orders, not to subscription orders. Oli-Pop is sold online at drink-olypop.com or on Amazon, and available in almost 30,000 retailers nationwide, including Wawa-Target, Sprout, Target, Sprouts, Wegman's ShopRite, and Go Puff. Some friends of mine recently joined True Mark Financial Credit, And they're right here in Philly. And really, it's been eye-opening to see the difference between banking at a bank and becoming a member of a credit union.

When you join a credit union like TrueMark Financial, you become the part owner, which means profits come back to you instead of going to shareholders. True Mark Financial has better rates, lower fees, and a better return on savings. And they're more flexible options overall. And, of course, the same digital tools and technology that we all want. But the best part for me is that True Mark Financial is local. They're headquartered in Fort Washington, right where Julia and I went to high school. And with 24 branches across the Philly area, they're deeply rooted in our community. They serve our community and only our community.

So their investments in programs help our people right here at home. Becoming a member of a credit union has so many benefits over being a customer at a bank. It's a total no-brainer. head over to trumark.com slash p hl y i should emphasize that's t r u m a rk dot com slash p hl y to learn more to find a branch near you that's trumark dot com slash p hl y and they are federally insured by the nc ua so when you say you're sprinting up the stairs all right it's let's yeah yes do you mean you're like you're actually sprinting going as fast as you can or you mean you're just walking with like a little bit of increased vigor oh like what like i'm running up the stairs. I'm not like it's it might not be my optimum speed but I saw someone in the chat comment on

this too. It's easier to go upstairs with momentum right. It's not that weird though. I am bewildered. It's not that weird. How do you go up the stairs? Have you ever seen anyone else do that? Yes. I see many people do it. Yeah. Yeah. When you go up the stairs you you get momentum. It's like one stride leads to the next stride, which leads the next track. That's how walking works. No, if you're walking and you have to stop, it's, it's harder in that case every time to like, I mean, think of it like a regeneration of like an engine, right? You have momentum going here.

You're not stopping, starting, stopping, stopping, starting. So yeah, I go up the stairs. But you are. When you get to the landing. Yeah, when you get to the landing. And then you catch your breath. and you hustle up the next one. Get to the landing, catch your breath,

hustle up the landing. And I did that 14 times today. I mean, I don't think it's that big a deal, well, honestly, I actually, a friend of my brothers one time, I was asking her how I can maximize

like my, my stare experience when I go, not for this, but in the past, I've tried to go upstairs. Out of nowhere, you asked this, or it was part of a conversation? We haven't a conversation about it. You know, I lived in like a, you know, like a vertical type townhouse, right?

And so, you know, it's like a lot of houses in Philly. It's like narrow, but then, you know, it's more vertical. So I was like, is there anything I can do on my own time to, like, improve my, you know, to improve my fitness just going up and down the stairs. And she recommended skipping a step every time. Okay. And so I tried doing that. And at one point I could do that here, but these are steeper stairs.

But yeah, so I just run, stop, run, stop, run, stop. It's really not that big a deal. Now, was this friend of your brothers, was this like her vocation, or she just happened to be a person and you were just crowdsourcing this question that was on your mind? No, no, this is her area of expertise, yes. All right. Well, speaking of areas of expertise, let's talk about Howard Roseman's draft history. Let's start with cornerback because I think that is a place that we have already sort of

zeroed in on. We know that it is a position that is a long-term and short-term need for the Eagles. And yet even though we know that Howard Roseman cares about this position in 12 drafts, he's had 13 first-round

picks, and those picks have only ever been a quarterback, a wide receiver, an offensive lineman, or a defensive lineman. Beyond that, he's only used one second-round pick on a cornerback, and that was Sidney Jones, of course, in 2017. Yeah.

So 12 drafts, only one corner in the first two rounds. Do you think that that is a matter of Harry Roseman thinking that the position doesn't matter as much? Does it, is it very difficult to project? Or is that just the way that the boards have fallen? So I think this is one where it's the way the boards have fallen. When you think about the first round in particular, the Eagles have been interested. that we've documented it on this show. Last year's draft might have been Christian Gonzalez.

Two years ago, the Eagles, you know, they could have traded up for like Derek Stingley had he fallen. Maybe that pick is Trent McDuffey if they don't trade for A.J. Brown, right? If they were able to land Alan Robinson or something like that earlier that season, I know Trent McDuffie is someone that they liked. The year before that, Devante Smith wouldn't be on this, team if J.C. Horn or Patrick Sartan fell. So I think that's circumstantial. Now, as far as the second round pick, that stood out to me when I was looking at this. And part of that might be just where

the cornerback, so the Eagles had this dry period with cornerbacks under Chip Kelly. But early in Howley's tenure, they signed Nomdi. They had Asante Samuel. They trade for Dominic Rogers Carmardi. right? Then after the chip era, when he came back in charge, and they thought they needed veterans, they traded for Darius Slay. And Ronald Darby? Yes, and Ronald Darby. That's a good one, though. Yeah, and they gave up a pick in the Darby deal. So I think that had more to do with the circumstances of the roster. I don't think he's opposed to taking corners. I think that's not a dogma thing. I think that's a position that they would probably consider similar to wide receiver in terms of their positional importance.

I think the thing that is a little bit interesting to me, and you said it too, like the fact that they have only used one second round pick, I don't think that this is a case at all of like they don't value the position. For all the reasons you said, they have spent a lot of money on it, they have used draft pick resources to get veterans or younger veterans. But I do wonder if it's a little bit along the lines of safety for them where they just find it a very difficult position to evaluate, And that's part of the reason that they have felt a little bit less, you know,

a surety with when you're on the clock. Like, do we feel great about this corner versus a similarly graded guy at wide receiver or offensive line, which we feel like we know better? I wonder if that, I do wonder if that is a factor. Yeah. And we talked about it a little bit earlier this week. Like those guys like Sartan and Horn, you probably felt much more confident. Like if we think we can get a great young corner, let's do it.

But the further you get away from the top 10. top 15, maybe all of a sudden you're thinking, are we really sure that this guy is better than the next five guys on our board? Yeah, that's a valid point because, you know, one thing I've heard specifically the safeties, but it would apply to corners is, and the NFL game is kind of caught up the colleges in a certain respect, but with the way college offenses were and are, and especially with the way the hash marks are on the field, playing defense in college can be different than what it's going to be like in the NFL. And so that's made it traditionally harder for the Eagles to evaluate safeties, they would say. And that might be the case with, with, with, you always hear the complaints about, you know, they never asked them to press or, you know, they only ask them to play one type of technique. And we're going to have to change that like that. First of all, it's not their job to develop the player for you.

But yeah, yeah, that is a, that is a classic NFL passing of the buck. Yeah, as Mike Tomlin would say, run to coaching, not away from it, right? If, if these guys didn't need to be coach, there wouldn't be coaches. So that's, that's precisely why these guys are. paid. I'm with you there. I've heard Sheel mentioned it. I've heard you mention it that the job of the college coaches is not to make it easier for you. The job of the college coach is to win games. But yeah, so that could be the case. But I think it has more to do with what the roster has been. And they have tended to go with kind of more proven commodities at corner than the

draft prospects. Interesting. They have drafted 11 corners. under Howie Roseman, and eight of them have come in rounds three and four. Yeah, what do you make of that? And only two of them in the third round. So they've drafted six corners in the fourth round. It's like that's where they like to draft corners. It's kind of, I feel like that's probably just circumstantial, but maybe it is like that's just they find a good sweet spot there.

Well, it's a position they value. And if you don't get it in the first and second round, you're probably looking at the board and being like, oh, we need a corner here, right? And maybe they feel as if late round corners. are harder to develop. They hit on jail and mills, but there could be an argument that those middle rounds,

you're getting a decent player. And the other thing you have to consider is that it's like slot corners, you can find those not necessarily high in the draft, but in the middle rounds. Avanti Maddox in the fourth round is an example of that. Brandon Boykin, in the fourth round,

is an example of that. So let's spin that forward to what it means for this year's draft. Do you think if they're on the clock at 22 or with one of their two second round picks, do you think they are going to be a little bit hesitant to draft

a corner or do you think that this is going to be, this is one of our top positions we're going to be willing to draft a corner? Yeah, I think it's a position though, but they'll be willing to draft. We talked about this a bit yesterday, and I know the cover photo today or the thumbnail today was Cooper DeGene.

I think it's the position their second most likely the draft in the first round. I still put offensive tackle as the considerable favorite. I think there's going to be good corners on the board in round two for them. At 50 and 53, I think that's an interesting spot to add a corner. For them to take a corner in the first round, I think it would have to require either a run on tackles or some of these good corners slip, right?

Teams aren't pushing them. I keep seeing, you know, we'll have a full corner show. And this isn't like a fake tease. We're definitely going to have a full corner show leading up to the We'll see. I like the idea of a fake teeth. But, you know, I saw Field Yates' mock draft today. He had Nate, I'm sorry, he had Nate Wiggins there for the Eagles. Someone who, he's the fastest, he ran the fastest 40 of any defensive player at the Combine.

You keep seeing Cooper de Gene. I had a mock draft last week with Cooper DeGine. Quinion Mitchell, someone who you wrote about at the Senior Bowl. Terry and Arnold were thinking that he won't be there at 22, but maybe. he's someone who slips. So there are decent corners there, but I think that the depth of that class, the expression is always like, the bigger the body, the harder it is defined, right? And so offensive tackle, defense-aligned are typically where the Eagles have looked early on in the draft. And I still think an offensive, there's a drop-off from round one to round two at O-Tackle. I don't think that drop-off

is as steep at corner. But it would surprise me if you and I are doing our show on day three, and they haven't drafted a corner yet. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I still think that tackle is the heavy favorite to be the first round pick. I, as I envision, like, what the first round is going to look like for Hayre Roseman, I think if it's a corner,

I think it would be a couple pick trade-up and not like just sticking and taking the corner on the board. I think there would be a guy that they have in mind and maybe there's a fan geo connection there. But I also don't know that they need to force it in the second round if they don't get it in the first round. Like I think, I think corners a position where you can take a bunch of dart throws, and they've done that in the past, and none of them have really hit.

You know, there was the Kerry Vincent, Tay Gowan. Yeah, you got fired up about that deal, yes, yes. Well, not that deal. I thought that that was a fine plan at the position. None of them happen to work out. I think they've got some... You hated that Carrie Vincent trade. I did hate the Kerry Vincent trade.

Yes. It's like it's going to be your epitat one day. Why did they trade for Carrie Vincent? Well, it was a seventh round pick. They traded a sixth round pick for him. Two months later, he hadn't done anything. He hadn't even played. Weird.

Sun-cost fallacy. I don't know that that is accurate, but... Yeah, it... Okay, yes, because once the pick is made, okay, it's... But it's not their sunk cost. That's not a sun-cost fallacy. it's the inverse of that is my point is like you the valuation at that point doesn't matter anymore it's like the cost is like you he's not just perpetually a seventh round pick at that point but that but that is my point that nothing had changed well yeah he played one preseason season nothing can't change in the evaluation things that change in the circumstance right i bet vic fangio is walking around the building still giving howie shit about about the carry vincent trade like i didn't even like that guy you gave up an extra round for him yeah i don't don't i don't I don't think Harry Vincent's

And I was like, oh, you think that's funny? I'm going to give you Devin White, you S-O-B. What are the odds if I can ask you this? If you had the place... If you had the place odds on Howie Roseman's saying... I was like, and I hate the Phillies. Howie Roseman saying this expression, this expression at some point on draft weekend, okay?

We're sitting there on the board in the third round and we put up Keely Ringo highlights from last year. I mean, 100%. 100%. 100%. Okay. 95%. Okay.

That's absolutely going to happen. All right. Let's move on from Corner and let's talk about the one that you and I looked at. And actually this one more surprising to me than almost anything I found. And that is, it's probably one that I don't really think is dogma versus circumstance. But it's interesting. 13 first round picks for Hayre Roseman. Mm-hmm.

Only four of them underclassmen, Zach. Yeah, that really surprises me. Nine of them seniors. That surprised me. Carson Wentz, Lane Johnson, Devante Smith, Brandon Graham, Jordan Davis, Andre Dillard, Danny Watkins, Marcus Smith, Nolan Smith. So the only four underclassmen, Jalen Carter, Fletcher Cox, Derek, Jalen Rigger.

Yeah, so a few things there. First off, well, this is obvious if you're taking seniors, but outside of like COVID years. it was senior bowl heavy there, right? Carson Wentz, they had eyes on him at the senior bowl. Brandon Graham, they had eyes on him at the senior bowl. Lane Johnson, they had eyes on him at the senior bowl. Andre Doherd, they probably didn't have enough eyes on him at the senior bowl,

but they had eyes on him at the senior bowl. So now, that's not the case with Jordan Davis-N-Smith because of national championships, and that wasn't the case with... Marcus Smith was at the Senior Bowl. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So Senior Bowl heavy. I don't think that that was a Senior Bowl...

like preference. I think it's just that those guys were good enough as seniors. They were going to be at the senior bowl. Sure. But let me workshop this a bit, okay? So Howie's not on the road during the season, and that's not like a typical of, I mean, not every GMs on the road.

Sometimes GMs can have an affinity to the people they see, right? You see it in person. You start to get in it. It's fresh in your head as opposed to just reading a scouting report from one of your road scouts. So it could be that, that you're more prone to, I don't want to say fall in love with someone that you see at the senior bowl, but someone who you've seen up close, you might be more inclined to trust your eyes rather than trusting a scouting report on the player. And, of course, I don't want to read too much into this, but anecdotally, anecdotally, in these post-draft press conferences,

when they draft one of these guys, the senior bowl is always pointed out. it out as like a reference point, you know? And of course, we were down there. We sat with him. We got to know him. I think that's a little bit calculated. And it's also like it's perpetuating. Like we want these guys to be there. So let's keep building this thing up. Okay. I don't know that that's really the number one thing. But I mean, you know, Howard Roseman was like not even at the senior bowl this year. Right. Yeah. Like there have been years in the past where he's barely there. I don't think that that's the reason. But I think that there might be something to. who he's not on the road, he gets eyes on these guys,

that could be a factor. I'd be curious the years that he wasn't there, are they not taking senior bowl guys those years? There you go. You know what, this is not a, what will they do, but sort of a draft opinion that I am workshopping, I guess. I don't let, and it's, this is, I mean, this is the Jordan Davis-N-Smith thing.

I don't want projectable seniors. You were such an ageist. No, but that's not even an age thing. That's like the guys played for four years. Yeah. That's more, you know, if he's still a project at this point, I don't know. I'd sort of rather somebody else take that bet. I will push back on that because I think it's a matter of circumstance.

If it's a four-year starter, then yes. It's like a late-blooming player or there are underclassmen who are redshirt juniors, right? I mean, there's a matter of nuance to this. Yeah, of course. I'm not saying a blanket like I'm just knocking them off my draft board, but I am skeptical of that type of prospect. Okay. So I actually look at age more than the draft class because to me, the age has more to do

with body development. And draft class has the, I'm sorry, age than school class. School class and has more to do with like the player development. And I think what you're, I think they're both part of it. Yeah, but with age, what you're kind of counting on, is body development. Like some, I mean, think of how you were 21 compared to how you were 24, right? I mean, that's a big difference. Toned and ripped it both times. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. You were a good pitcher at West. Just like today.

No, I was not a pitcher at Wake Forest. You were a first basement at Wake Forest? Incorrect. Okay, you were, what were you at Wake Forest? You played third base corner outfield. Third base corner outfield. Okay. You were a pitcher in high school. Among other things. Among other things. Among other things. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Led the county innings pitched. My arm was my arm. My arm. arm was dead after that. Ah, okay. Sorry to hear that.

It's okay. It was worth it. We wanted a state championship. Did you guys win a state championship? My junior year, yeah. Nice. I actually, yeah, I recall a vivid anecdote from that. Yeah, so I think that the age curve.

That was not from the state championship, the anecdote you're referring to. What was that from? That was from the following year. That was in the tournament, but not the actual championship game. Okay. I need to do more research on. I mean, if you're going to talk about it and be about it. Okay.

It's like Glory Days, Bruce, you know, right now. Lurie Days? Glory Days. Oh, Glory Days. Are you familiar with the song? Yes, I'm familiar with the song. Okay. And I'm just, I mean, a tear, this is a Steve Wolf take, the music video for Glory Days.

I mean, Bruce Springsteen just exposes himself as not being able to throw a baseball, this terrible form. I haven't seen that music video. I'll look it up. Bad stuff. Almost as bad as Tim Robbins. Bull Durham. Nucle Lusch. Correct.

Yes. Got that one. Okay. So in any event, yeah, the age curve is what I would pay more attention to. Okay. So do you think that this one, like you don't think the Eagles are going to be more likely to draft a senior in the first round than an underclassman just because that's what they've done in the past? I wouldn't say more likely, but as I'm thinking about this, and that did surprise me when you presented those numbers to me. Good job by you when I researched.

that maybe early on in the draft they want more data points they want they want less like projection and and feel more confident by that but that that does that does surprise me it runs counter to how I would probably operate so I'm saying that's more circumstantial but that one that one could be more dogmatic when you when you talk about them trying to avoid mistakes and one way to avoid mistakes is is by having more of a reference point now let's Listen, the projectable senior thing, I mean, the best pick on this entire list is Lane Johnson. And he would have fit into that. So there's a little bit of a, there is the nuance there.

But he also didn't play as much. Sure. So that, I guess maybe. That's my point, by playing time. That not all seniors are the same. Right, exactly. And so like a guy like Nolan Smith and Jordan Davis, who have been playing a lot and are still considered projections. Maybe that's where I'm a little bit more skeptical.

I like your Devonte Smith where there's no projection. you're just like, this guy's awesome, put them in. Well, even then, you're skeptical of the size, right? I wouldn't say you. Well, I wasn't skeptical. Yeah, I wasn't either. Okay, but you, the general you. The general, you.

Well, okay, sorry. Nice. All right, let's talk, uh, let's talk, uh, let's talk, Hi, Roseman's draft day trade. Yeah, I like this. Okay. Now, he has had, uh, 13 drafts, right, including 15 first round picks, on the day of the draft. Those 15 times, seven times he traded up.

Now, on this one, I am including Carson Wentz. So you could say that this is really six because they traded up ahead of time, but it was basically a trade-up because they knew what they were doing. Carson Wentz, Brandon Graham, Fletcher Cox, Andre Dillard, Devante Smith, Jordan Davis, Jalen Carter.

Only two trade-downs, Marcus Smith and Dallas Goddard. Five times they have stayed. and picked exactly where they were. Danny Watkins, Lane Johnson, Derek Barnett, Jalen Rager, Nolan Smith, and then one time they traded for a player, obviously, in A.J. Brown. And you pointed out

that in these last four trade-ups, Zach, so all of them in, like, Harry Roseman, oh, actually not all of them, because Fletcher Cox. Brandon Graham, they moved up a bunch. The last four have all been no more than three picks. What do you think that says about, you have a theory about, like, targeting people? Yeah, I think that's exactly what is.

you saw this last year with Jalen Carter, that they have a specific player in mind. They want to come out of the draft with this player, right? And so it's someone who they think conceivably would be there when they pick, right? So, I mean, obviously you can say we want to come out of the draft with Caleb Williams. You're not getting Caleb Williams, right? You do all your draft work, and you say this is the guy who we, this would be the ideal scenario at pick 14. or I pick 22. And so you're there and so on the clock and that guy's still there.

And you say, let's make sure that we get them. Let's not be cute here. Let's make sure that instead of hoping that this happens and this happens and this happens and this team doesn't draft him or this team doesn't trade someone who's trading up, let's ensure that we get them. And I think that's, I know that's what happened with Fletcher Cox. I know that's what happened with Jordan Davis. right they were they were specifically jumping the ravens for jordan davis

gil and carter last year they didn't even jump a team they just want to ensure no one else traded up to get them right they went from 10 to 9 and so that's that that that's what stands out to me in all of those scenarios and what's interesting about the overall data here is I think you know if we had joe banner on this show i think i think one thing joe would say if you look at his history and how we kind of learned from from joe is how he was a big proponent i'm sorry Joe was a big proponent in trading down and like accumulating draft picks and you know getting more lottery tickets. And when you look at some of those early Howie drafts, Howie had like 10, 12 picks in some of these times. It's partly how they had landed Jason Kelsey, right?

But a lot of those were guys who just, you know, didn't last very long. I think Howie really sees early on the value of there's someone you want, go and get them and then figure out everything thereafter. Like trade back in round two. Trade back and round two. Yeah, I think he views the first round as different. I think he would like volume later, but he wants to move up. He wants to go get his guy. But I actually have a different view of this.

And not that it's a player you're targeting. I view it as they have a tier and they want to make sure that they get someone from a tier. Okay. They don't want to have the drop off. And to me, if I am psycho analyzing the Harry Roseman history, it all dates back to 2014. Yeah, well said.

When there's the story of like they've got six, there are seven picks to go, they've got six guys that they like, and they just go off the board, one, two, three, four, five, six. They have to take a bad trade to move down and end up holding their nose to take Marcus Smith. And I think in that draft room,

it was like a kind of a deeply embarrassing situation for Howard Roseman because he was saying like, we can be patient, we can be patient, trust me, and it didn't work. And that was his last draft until he was moved to the side of the building. And I think his, the thing that he took from that when he got back on the board was that I'm not going to let that happen again. And so I don't think it was, we need to get Devante Smith, we need to get Jalen Carter,

we need to get Jordan Davis. It was we need to get one of these guys. And when it comes to the point where there's only one of them left, we're not going to be patient. we have to go get that guy. I think it's more of a tiered system than a specific player. I can buy that, but I think that the trades are for a specific player. And maybe it's a matter. No, but I'm saying maybe it's a matter of there's only one guy left from that tier.

But I typically think, so here, let me ask you this. Now, Jailant Carter was in like a class of himself last year. But if a team traded up to nine to get Jailant. Carter and the Eagles were on the board at 10. What would they have done in that situation? Do you think there were multiple guys in that tier? Or do you think that's where they try to trade down because there's a drop-off? No, I think that would.

I think Jalen Carter was the last one of that tier. And I think they would have tried to move down a little bit and maybe try to get Christian Gonzalez. But I also think that they would have had Paris Johnson and, you know, I think we talked about it last spring. I think what they would have loved to do more than anything would have been move up big from Will Anderson last year. and that was not, you know,

the teams were not willing to move, if he had fallen to five or something like that. I remember giving you crap about that, by the way. Well, yeah, but... But I wasn't saying... I remember you're like, you know, I think the Eagles will love the trade-off for Will Anderson. I was like, yeah, no shit.

Of course they would love the trade-up for Will Anderson. Well, yeah, but that's not... I stand by that as, like, you're wrong about that being an obvious thing. Like, what they would like to do is pay a premium to get that player. Like, there are question marks about Joe. I remember you saying if the Eagles could draft anyone from me.

I remember you weren't on that show. And then you came back and thought that this was a really hot take that I was being silly about that. And I stand by it. I just remember being, oh, you're really putting yourself out there there. That's like me saying, you know what? That's like you're saying your favorite shows are the office in the wire? No, it's like me saying, you know, I really like Andrew Luck in the in the 2012 draft. It's like, oh, wow.

No, because it's not me saying that I think Will Anderson is the best pass rusher. It's me saying at 10, they want to move all the way up. That is a bold thing. I hear you there. I'm just being fun, if you will. So fun. So, yeah, so I hear what you're saying, but to your point, that Devante Smith year, right? And that's the other.

And that's the other thing, is we're trying to make a grand overarching philosophy. Like I actually do think that Jordan Davis was much more of like they wanted that specific type of player. Whereas Devante Smith, it was like they wanted one of Devante Smith and J.C. Horn and Patrick Sertan. And once those two guys went, they had to go up and get it. Yeah. So that's where you're correct. And is that if. And Waddle, I think was the other one in that group.

Yeah. But if like if a team was drafting at 9 and or I'm sorry, if a team was drafting at 10, which a team was, and, you know, the Eagles traded up to 10 from 12 to 10. But if at, if at 10, J.C. Horn, Patrick Stratan, and Devante Smith, are all the board, the Eagles don't trade up. I think the Eagles are like, all right, let's, we're going to get one of these three guys.

We don't need to jump the judge. Well, exactly. That's my point. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. You're right about that with the tier. Yeah. So I think that's a good argument, the tier system. Okay.

Before we keep going, let's talk about our friends at Rocket money because you talk about a good deal well the guys that the good people at Rocket Money are going to give you a better deal than you're going to get anywhere else because they're going to take care of your deals for you you know what we talked about like

I think a week or two ago the like the serious XM the little dastardly move they make from when you get on the new car whatever it is and then they bump up that subscription it happened to me this month and Rocket Money was all over it

Screw you guys. Rocket money's got my back. Did you know that nearly 75% of people have subscriptions they've forgotten about? Well, not anymore. Not if they're using Rocket Money. Because between streaming services, fitness apps and delivery services, it's never ending. But Rocket Money, they make sure that you are no longer wasting money on the subscriptions you forgot about. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions.

monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate to lower your bills for you by up to 20%. All you have to do is submit a picture of your bill, and Rocket Money takes care of the rest. They'll deal with customer service for you. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's features. What would you do with $740 a year? I'll just give it to Zach.

Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash p.hly. That's rocketmoney.com slash p.hly. Rocketmoney.com slash phly. You think $740 would cover a new elevator? No, but maybe the part needed to fix it. Maybe. You know, we're talking on the show about basically 13 years of draft history.

and a lot has changed over the years. But one thing that hasn't changed. One thing that hasn't, the great taste of Miller Light. It was the original light beer, and to this day, it's still the best one. Joy just cracked open something. It's not a Miller Light, unfortunately. Well, we don't know. She's off camera.

But Miller Light has more of the taste that you want and less of the stuff that you don't. If you're hanging around, watching the draft, you might remember if you're with your buddies and you're throwing them back, 10 years. from now, 15 years from now, you might not remember who was on the board at that pick. But you know what you will remember? Sucking them back with your friends. The good times you had with your buddies, okay? And that's what Miller Light does.

It keeps it simple. Undebatable quality, great taste, and only 96 calories. It's the beer that strips away everything you don't need and it holds on to what matters most. A light beer that tastes like beer. There's less filling in only 96 calories. the original light beer since 1975. Times do change, but you can always enjoy the great

taste of Miller Light. Taste like Miller Time. To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door, visit millerlight.com slash p.hly. Birds, or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces. All right, a couple

more to get through here, Zach. Maybe we'll use a few leftovers for tomorrow's show, but one you pointed out, last seven drafts, I believe, for Higher Osman, seven second round picks, only one on defense. You either make anything of that? Hmm. Now, over the course of the whole draft,

he's actually drafted, so 105 players, one kicker, so 104 offense and defense. And of those, there are, I have it here, in my spreadsheet, Bap, bah, bah. 58 on defense, 46 on offense. So more on defense than on offense. But if you go just the first three rounds,

it is just a slight edge for defense, 20 on defense, 18 on offense. Yeah, I don't know what to make of this. This one surprised me because... The second round part of it. Yeah, the second round, because there's enough of a sample size here where you say it's not an anomaly.

my guess is these are certain positions where they probably feel like it's a drop off there's a competitive advantage to have a starter on a rookie contract they have been more inclined to address the defensive side of the ball via free agency or trades than offense but also there are a lot of first round defensive players so do you think it's like well we drafted uh we drafted we drafted Jordan Davis let's draft well just i mean just defensive lineman really and and and i've but a lot of them yeah but i but i I've said this on the show and I stand by this. That's a position where the Eagles look at the delta between a second contract player

and a third contract player and the rookie contract. Like Hassan Reddick's an example. If Hassan Reddick gets $25 million a year, right? Let's say Nolan Smith is 75%, and we don't know if it'll be 75% of the player, right? Well, plus they didn't have to pay the Hassan Redick $25 million. Yeah. But that's my point. I think they're more inclined to try to hit on a defensive tackle or an edge rusher in the first round of the draft,

have him on the rookie contract instead of, like, if you're paying an edge rusher, you're paying a defensive lineman, it's not, it's the closest thing you'll have in the NFL to paying a quarterback. And so you keep hearing about the value of team building with a quarterback on a rookie contract. There's a value in team building having a stud, defensive line on rookie deals, right? San Francisco 49ers benefited from a period of time there

where like Nick Bosa and Eric Armstead were on rookie deals. And then when DeFarrest Buckner was up for one, they traded the Forrest Buckner for a first round pick that then used on Javon Kinlaw to get him on a rookie deal. Because

like you're paying premium contract salary. So I think that speaks to how they did the offensive line. I'm sorry, the defensive front. So really, we can get into this, and we know this linebacker. The Eagles don't value that in terms of draft capital. Safety, they like, but it's not the premium. I mean, it's really cornerback.

It surprises me that Sidney Jones was the only cornerback taken in the second round, but we mentioned the roster composition that they had in terms of veterans. But I think this has more to do with the Eagles trying to find starters on offense in the draft and then building their defense via free agency and trades. One interesting thing if you just look at the positions, and this is a little bit wonky because of how I'm categorizing the guys, like Jack Driscoll is a tackle in here, and there are a bunch of guys who were like tackles guard,

you know, Big V, for instance, was a tackle, but ended up starting a guard. But they've drafted seven interior offensive linemen under Harry Roseman, and if you break it down by position, it is the earliest median pick for interior offensive. line, which is interesting because you think of that as a position where you would be able to find late round guys or plug-and-play guys in free agency. It's not a position that is typically thought of as needs to be a premium pick, but the median interior offensive lineman for them was a, you know,

79th overall. That's early third round. Like, you know, the lesson of Jason Kelsey is not wait till the sixth round. It's like, boy, that guy is really valuable to us. Let's see if we can go find him. Yeah. And I think that, I mean, certainly the land. and Dickerson and Cam Juergens' picks jump out there. Seamalu. Sayamalu. I think the, I mean, people always say the pick that Howley regrets the most would be Joan Rager.

I think the pick of the Halle would he regrets the most as Danny Watkins more than anything else. Because Danny Watkins went against a lot of things that, like, you're trying to think about in the job. Yeah, I think he would, I actually, I mean, I would say that he would probably say that that was his worst pick, but probably not the one he regrets the most because there's a lot of like explaining why they thought that made sense because of the strike you thought we needed to plug and play guy it was also more of an andy pick probably but yeah that was a very bad pick

get you here I thought you're pro labor it was a lockout not a strike the owners were locking them out the players didn't go on strike I'm joking joking I didn't mean to call you out on that that's fine we got to be accurate yeah but yeah yeah no you are you're you're correct about that The regular ones, the one that probably haunts them, just because it was so obvious they should have taken Justin Jefferson. Yeah, that's a, that's bad. Yeah, so, yeah, this is, this was good research by you, and I don't have, I don't have a strong explanation whether it is dogmatic

or whether it's circumstantial, but I think the sample size is large enough there that it really jumps out to me. All right, Zach, I have one more for you that you're going to scoff at. I would, I don't scoff. But I do want your opinion here. Because Cooper DeGine is the guy who's on the thumbnail for us. The Eagles have drafted 20 defensive players in the first three rounds under Harry Roseman. Not a single one of them, a white guy.

I think this is circumstantial. They have never drafted a white defensive player in the first three rounds in 12 drafts under Harry Roseman. Is there something to that? Do you think that that is a thing that a bias that is in his mind? mind. Well, I don't think this is a bias. I also, without having the data in front of me, I haven't seen this sortable. Actually, I usually look for sortable data. I haven't seen this as a sortable option. There's plenty of good white defensive players out there. Are there, though? How many? J.J. Y. Chris Long. Yeah. That's about it. Ryan Kerrigan was the first

round pick. George Carloftus. Yeah. I mean. I mean, you know, we, We poke fun in a corner, but that's, you know, that's a thing. But like there are, there are white safeties and white linebackers and white defensive linemen being drafted in the first three rounds. Never by the Eagles. What would you do? What would you do if we're doing a draft day? Well, we are doing our draft day shows this year. And it's Cooper the Gene in round one and Peyton Wilson in round two.

And how he's at this podium. And he says, Bo Wolf said that I will not draft. I mean, I actually don't think that this is completely. completely circumstantial. Okay. I don't know. I mean, you think back to like the way that Jim Washburn talked about his defensive linemen and like these old scouting cliches.

I don't know. I feel like some of that could steep down into their biases on the clock. I mean, I'm not trying to make this like a sociological thing. I think the evidence shows that there are more good. Luke Keeckley, as somebody points out. Yeah, but they actually really like Luke Keeckley. I mean, that could be, of course, they like Luke Keechley, but they did like Luke Keechley. They like Connor Barwin enough to sign him as a free agent.

But he had proven it. Yes, true. Same thing with Chris Long. They're skeptical of the young white guy. Yeah. Well, so I try not to like say anything that's like, I think it's fair to say there are many more good black players. And then white players should come out. So, yeah, I think this has more to do with just the overall data than any type of preference.

But I did not. I thought you were going to ask me a running back one there. I did not expect you to go with the racial composition of their draft profiles. Two can you name the seven white defensive players that Howard Roseman has drafted? Casey Two Hill. Correct. Okay. Casey Matthews.

Correct. He's the earliest, the only one drafted in the first. four rounds. If your name's Casey, you get good shape. Well, listen, I think that maybe that's the lesson he learned from that Casey Matthew's pick. That was in 2011. He hasn't drafted a guy in the first four rounds since.

Yeah, so we're talking about defensive players. White defensive players? Correct. Okay. Can't believe I'm doing this. Bow Allen. Correct. See that up there.

Well, don't cheat by reading the chat. I mean, I'm just looking ahead of me here. So you got two-hill. You got Matthews, you got Alan. I'm trying to think there aren't really safeties. I mean, he didn't take Sean Constine. That was earlier on. So there aren't safeties that jump to mind here.

Am I missing a safety? No. Yeah, so I'm thinking linebackers. And at linebacker, Joe Walker. Correct. Okay. Oh, me Joe Walker. He didn't take Brian Mohawk, did he?

Or was that? No, that's Chip. that was 15 yeah okay but he did take a guy the year before okay the 14 draft so the 14 draft was well bow Allen was 14 I said bow Allen but um

this was a this was a classic well you know if he had stayed in school oh Joe Kruger yes Joe Kruger thank you Kruggs yes um there you go you're missing two more I'm missing two more both fifth round picks fifth round picks

um presuming here now The one is a Howie pick, but you could probably say that he made it for Chip. Oh, Taylor Hart. Yes. Tear Hart, yes. Chip wants him like a third round. I was like, I think we can wait.

Like, yes. I think we're going to be good. We're going to be all right with that one. Then who's the last one here? Last one, White Snake. Oh, okay. There you go. Nate Gary.

Yep. I like that. Fifth round pick in 2017. Okay. All right. I did not expect to do that. that exercise here. Let me ask you, the two that get pointed to Howie the most are running backs and linebackers, right?

Is that, is that on your list? Would you be surprised to know that, Zach, Howie has drafted more linebackers over the course of the draft than any other position except for Edge? Oh, I'm not surprised by that. Okay. Because they try to fill those in the back. They're not spending. The money they spent. They actually haven't done that as.

I think that was much. I think that is weighted by an early bias. Yeah, they had those years where Brian Roll and. Jamar Cheney. Yeah, Jamar Cheney, got Keenan Clayton. Casey Matthews. They were just taking. And I actually think that he maybe over-learned a lesson to not necessarily do that.

Sean Bradley and Gary. Yeah, that was draft volume in those cases. Fair enough. And then running back. Yeah, listen, I mean, he's only drafted five running backs. And it's Miles Sanders in the fifth. No, the second. in the second, I'm sorry, Miles Sanders in the second, and then

Pumphrey in the fourth, Dionne Lewis in the fifth, Kenny Gainwell in the fifth, Charles Scott in the sixth, and Bryce Brown in the seventh. So he's only used one pick in the first three rounds on a running back. I think that is, I don't know, dogma is the right word, but I think that that is position valuation. Yeah, so there's two things that, there's, I mean, two circumstantial things that jumped in my mind. In 2017, they would have taken Christian McCaffrey,

I had number 14 overall. But I know you hate when I say this. They viewed Christian Kaffir's like an offensive weapon more than as a running back. I kept hearing if you put a WR next to his name as opposed to an RB next to his name, he'd be like a no doubt top 10 pick, right? Disagree. I know you disagree, but that's how it was framed to me by somebody. And then as far as in the second round at a running back, 2017, they were hoping that year would go a little different.

I'm sorry, yeah, 2017, that Dalvin Cook would have been their pick if over Sidney Jones, if the Vikings didn't trade up over to get him. I know the 2020 draft, or I'm sorry, 2018 draft, they were looking for offensive skill players early in the second round when they traded back. They were mainly looking at wide receivers. Like Christian Kirk was someone that they really liked there. I think Cortland Sutton was someone who they were considering. they ended up taking Dallas Goddor.

And then last year's, or I'm sorry, the 2020 draft, J.K. Dobbins and Jeremy Chin were two guys they were looking at had they not taken jail in Hertz. But I think from up top, there was really a push to take jail on Hertz. Yeah, I think they view it as, you know, we would like to have either a difference-making player or not pay much for it at all. Exactly. And they don't need to attack that middle. But I do think, and you have, I mean, we had this kind of.

conversation at the combine and you push back on it. They do look at delta between what you're paying a guy in free agency and what you're and what the draft value is for that player. Like, what's the starting caliber player. So I think that's a fine proxy for just talking about the positions that matter. That matter. Fair. But I don't think that that's like the operating procedure for why you draft a position. Sure. Okay. Yeah. But I'm saying that you can go and you can sign a safety, a good safety for 8 to 10 million a year. And as opposed to drafting a safety. Whereas, and you specifically hear this with like Brock Bowers at tight end.

And it shocks me that there hasn't been more of a market correction for tight ends because tight ends are underpaid relative to what the value that they have in the offense. But you keep looking at like offensive tackle, edge rusher, de-tackle. You're paying premium prices on the second contract. for that player. If you can get Elaine Johnson, if you can get, you know, I mean, think of Fletcher Cox before they signed him to a big deal. If one of the best players on your team is on a fixed rookie contract, it is a huge

advantage for you. Sure. Last thing is, I don't think that this is a big thing either way, but just their percentage of guys who are from, you know, the Power 5 conferences. is and you know we can only look at that for so much longer it's actually it's interesting because it is consistent throughout the draft um in the first three rounds 32 of the 38 players they've drafted have been from those big schools in the uh howie roseman 2.0 you know since coming back from the other side of the building 18 of 21 have been uh from those big schools overall it's

88 out of 105 that's all within the same band of like 84 to 85 to 86 It's just an interesting of the few of all the noise in here. It's one thing that sort of looks consistent. Yeah. And that's actually that feels about right. I mean, that's, that feels sort of what it should be and what makes sense. I mean, the guys who they haven't taken from the Power 5s were Carson Wentz, Nate Allen, Dallas Goddard, Jake Juan Jarrett, and Vinnie Curry in the first two rounds.

Yeah, that's, yeah, that certainly adds up to me. When I was covering the Giants, one thing that I kept hearing. about difference between like the Eagles and the Giants roster composition is at that point in the Eagles structure the Eagles were more willing to draft height weight speed exceptions than the Giants were the Giants were more fixated on height weight speed and that was like the distinction that they were like between Jason Pierre Paul and Brennan Graham exactly yes exactly and I remember some of the linebackers now the Eagles I mean Chip Kelly made famous that, or said, he once said, if you have, you know, you can't have a depth chart full of exceptions because then you have an exception, blocking for an exception, blocking, you know, covering up an exception.

But I am going to take a harder look at some of the, like, data points as far as combine measurements to see what the Eagles favor in that regard. Okay. All right. Good stuff, Zach. I like the show. The whole thing in general or just today's episode? Oh, the whole thing in general. Today's episode.

Didn't love the... I didn't expect the stare discussion to be a thing. I feel bad. I wasn't tracking the meme emoji thing. I just noticed that you didn't do it. Well, it's not like I gave it a thumbs down and was like, I just didn't happen to live on the thread and make sure to plug in. That's fire. That's fine.

That's fine. But I was pumped to put that meme up there. You were pumped. I was pumped. I was like, look, I'm participating in the Slack channel. I'm not above the fray, yes. That's good. You shouldn't be.

I find, like, as much as we talked about Howard Roseman's draft history, I do feel like, for most people, the most memorable thing of this episode will be your stair philosophy. I mean, waiting on the chat, when you go upstairs, isn't it easier to go up seven flights of stairs with momentum on each stair, on each flight as opposed to just independently starting at each stair

We're not independently starting and stopping on each stair You're just you're keeping a consistent level People say insane takes eBay Zach it's weird Crazy person stops at I've seen I actually I feel like I've seen one or two pieces of support for you

Yeah Okay Stopping on the landing is the weirdest part Is what a few people said Well I'm not like taking a 20 minute break in the landing. I'm just saying I'm not running the landings too. That's that's like that's just sprinting the whole way. You run to the landing. Catch your breath. Go up. Sprint up. Catch your breath. Sprint up. Catch your breath. You do it 14 times. I feel I mean the

the use of the word sprint is what's really what I'm hanging on. It's like you're going as fast as you can up those up those stairs. So I have a funny anecdote here. Okay. This is, when I was in college, freshman year of college, I read, I was reading a terrific Ian O'Connor book on Sebastian Telfare. Okay? Ian, amazing author, did a terrific job on this book. And one of the anecdotes in there was that Sebastian Telfare, for his workout, would sprint up 31 flights of stairs. Or he would go up 31 flights of stairs every day. He lived on the 31st floor of his, you know, in Coney Island.

And at that time, I was in, shout out to the Syracuse people watching this, I was in in Brewster Hall. And I was thinking I was on the seventh floor, actually coincidentally. And I said, you know what? I remember saying to my roommates, guys, I am no longer going to use the elevator. I am inspired by Sebastian To Fair. I am just going to do the stairs and they're just going to go back and forth to the stairs. And I did that for about like two weeks. but it became pretty good pretty inefficient as far as my time right you know and kind of like you know you're coming back to the dorm late at night you don't want to be chugging up seven flights of stairs so in any event yeah that that was my my biggest the biggest stair period of my life if you will

interesting was a freshman year of college at brewster hall i thought you said before you lived in a walk-up oh yeah but i was on the fourth floor of the walk-up that wasn't too bad and that was in hoboken and it was like Like, yeah, that really was not too bad. Okay. Yeah. It was tough moving in. But I really, I actually took the furniture. I got a place on Craigslist. And the person I, it was a sub lease, the person I took the sub lease from, I took the

sub lease from, I took his, the furniture that he had. So I did a good deal. Yeah, I just had to bring in my, you know, my bag or whatnot. My worst moving in upstairs experience was we were moving into, shout out to Matt Wong, our apartment above the bong shop on 8th and South. And we had a big couch. Oh, the bong shop? Yeah, that's what's on the corner. I thought it was a dance studio.

That's a different one. Oh, okay. I didn't know if it was a bong shop slash dance studio. I mean you that could be in conjunction with each other. Yeah. And very like a large couch that we were moving in and like trying to get it around the stairs. and it just would not fit into the door. We tried every angle we could possibly do.

Would not work. Like, what are we going to do? And what fortune fell upon us was there was some construction crew working like on the same street that had a forklift. And we worked out a little tit for tat to get them to lift the chair and take it in through the balcony window. That's good work. Yeah.

Yeah. And then when we had to move out, I think what we did, we rigged a pulley system from the fire escape and had our friends down below. It's good times. I like that story. I like that. The industriousness there. I see pro long job. The tit for Tadda gave them two Eagles tickets back from when I worked for the Eagles.

That was the deal. That's a great deal. For who? For him? Tickets are hard to get. He already had the forklift. Yeah, exactly. He didn't have to bring it in on an extra day.

Exactly. I see Provalon John saying Paul Zeeb rented a place from Craigslist. Wasn't this the thing? This is where you rented all your stuff back when I was, like when I was coming out college, unfortunately newspapers were losing their classified sections, right? If you wanted to rent a place to live, you went on Craigslist. Okay, yeah. Yeah, that's right.

That's how I first moved into a place in a million. I don't know if it's like that now. I don't know. I moved to Philadelphia. Yeah, but yeah, Craig. That's a very normal thing for people our age. Not anymore. Not anymore.

So Progloin John's much younger than I am. Okay, I can see that. Yeah, that's what I did. Yeah, okay. Moved into an apartment in Mani,unk, with three other women. Not other women, three women. Okay. I'm a man.

Thanks for clearing that one off. We'll end on that. And I'm almost 40. I put that together. All right. That'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.E.E. podcast back tomorrow at noon who knows what we're going to talk about we'll figure it out a little bit later so thanks for listening thanks for watching thanks for joining

subscribe thumbs up all that good stuff we'll talk to you tomorrow for Julia and Zach I'm Bo thanks for listening thanks for watching and as always we love you