PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Would you choose Haason Reddick or Josh Sweat to stay with the Philadelphia Eagles?

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

The Eagles probably have a tough decision to make as they remake the roster this offseason with both Haason Reddick and Josh Sweat entering the final years of their respective contracts and hoping for a raise. Can the team afford to pay them both? And if not, which one is worth keeping?Rich Hofmann steps into the Z-Berm chair to join Bo Wulf and go on the record with his takes on some of the pressing Eagles questions of the day. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

To the P. H.L.Y. Eagles podcast on a Thursday at noon, Bo Wolf, Rich Hoffman, is in for Zach Berman, who has flown the coop away on vacation. We're going to get Rich's thoughts on some of the big Eagles questions of the day. Where does he lean in the debate about whether you'd rather have Hassan Reddick or Josh Schwett moving forward? What does he think of the Georgia guys? How badly does he want Fletcher Cox and Jason Kelsey and Brandon Graham back? What does he think? think about what we found out after the show yesterday about Zach's basketball game on Monday night. We'll get your thoughts on that. But I do need to start, this is a little awkward, but I've been thinking a lot about this, and since I just, I wouldn't be happy with myself if I didn't say something here. So watching, this is not going to be like entirely cogent, but I just want to get off my chest. Watching the scene in Kansas City yesterday during their Super Bowl parade in which at least one person was killed and at least 21 others were shot, including 11 children ages 6 to 15, and thinking back to the Eagles Super Bowl parade from February 2018,

like the looks on people's faces and how many people were having like the literal best day of their life and how like all-consuming being an obsessed sports kid was. I'm sure you were the same, Rich. And how special that day would have been for those kids and how heartbreaking it is that it turned into what it turned into. You know, we all know how ubiquitous gun violence is in this country, and I think about the hard daily work being done by all kinds of people across the country. Shout out to Jessica Capadia, like fighting for this incremental progress.

And I know that this is profoundly naive. But when I read the reports of like how helpful some of the chiefs players were yesterday amid this chaos, I think Trace Smith among them, just like helping these kids. I know that it is not the NFL's job to make the country better. but maybe this is a chance to be opportunistic for a league that has struggled at times with the perception of its players and maybe this is a chance for Roger Goodell to capitalize on this moment and do some good.

I am not trying to make this political. I don't think Stop Shooting Kids is a controversial statement for the NFL to get behind. Jalen Hertz, to his immense credit, has spoken eloquently about gun violence over the past couple years, Jeffrey Lurie has tried to do his part with the Eagles organization. Maybe he can urge the league to follow suit in that fight. That's just my way of grasping for hope.

That's just what I wanted to say. That's all I've got. Now we can talk about the Eagles. Sorry. You're here, man. Okay. Kyle Shanahan, Wacken, Steve Wilkes. What a dastardly guy.

Just scapegoating the guy. after he, you know, held Patrick Mahomes to, what was it, one touchdown on the first ten possessions or something like that. It feels like a tough guy to work for. Yeah. Were you surprised by that? You know, I wasn't surprised because in his first press conference when the season was over, he said, like, oh, I haven't made any decisions about that.

And usually when a guy says that and doesn't say, they're definitely going to be back, it usually means something's coming. But it is a little bit tough to fire the guy. Like they were a top five DBOA defense, I think. They were always going to regress a little bit because they had so many turnovers the year before. And certainly they were not the reason that they lost that game. It seems like it was just sort of a personality dynamic deal going on.

And right, defense is inherently a fluky thing, right? From one year to the next, it does not have the staying power of the offenses when it comes to DVOA and EPA and those things. And I think that's for a pretty clear reason, is that quarterbacks matter the most, and that tends to be the thing that year over year translates. Did you see the Lockin'Fora tweet? I did not.

It says like Kyle Shanahan always like never, always shifting blame, scapegoats another person, you know, something, just locking for it. I didn't know he had that fire in him. Well, okay, so a couple things. I do think it's hilarious that he was like, okay, so you just held Patrick Mahomes in the biggest game on the biggest stage to an undoubtedly. well below average performance.

And that's kind of bothered me in the last few days, Bo. It's like, oh, the goat and all these things. I get it. Like when you win the Super Bowl and you win your third Super Bowl, it's, you know, people are going to praise you or whatever. Mahomes was not that good in that game. I mean, for the first half of that game, I was furious with their offense. As somebody who was rooting on them, somebody who bet on them, somebody who did not want

the Niners to win, they were terrible. And I was thinking, man, if the Eagles got even half of this defensive of performance last year. They win by two touchdowns. Of course. I mean, if they get one stop in the second half, they win the game. Like, yeah, I don't, the Wilkes thing, it's been sort of like Shenhan was sort of throwing him under the bus earlier in the season two, made him come down from the booth to the sideline. It just feels like that's just, they just did not get along, but you're also sort of screwing a guy over by firing him this late in the process. Now he is not going to get another DC job right away. It's, it's something that we saw all year. I mean, I remember I was watching,

they played a mid-season game in Minnesota on Monday Night Football, and it was kind of the end of the first half, and I don't know, like Kirk Cousins was driving him down the field or whatever, and he was like, he was making some good throws, and Shattahan was, like, actually furious, and he was like, this is not acceptable, basically, after the game. And it wasn't the only example I thought of him showing up his defensive coordinator. Like, the first half of the NFC championship game, it was ridiculous.

Like, he was, they kept showing him on the, the sidelines furious at what was going on defensively. And it's just, I don't know, like, the body language was so bad. He's an unlikable guy. Totally, totally. And then there was a play in overtime now. I didn't see exactly what happened, but it looked like Wilkes was playing some sort of sticks type defense. You know, it's a bunch of defensive backs by the first down marker. And Tony Romo, who in fairness over the past few years is not the most reliable narrator in the world, he said, well, you know, he had to call time out, Kyle, the tell. Wilkes, this is not what I wanted here.

If you are overruling the defensive coordinator on the final drive of the Super Bowl, that's a weird work dynamic, man. And I get it. They are an excellent team. You have a chance for promotion as Domeko Ryans and Robert Sala before. But if that is how he treats the defensive coordinator, that does not seem like a guy who I would want to work for. Yeah. There was something about, like, you know, the other defensive coordinators he's had have all sort of come from within.

Wilkes is the first guy who came from the outside, who knows what the personality dynamics were like. But I think it's part of like the greater Kyle Shanahan picture where he is absolutely one of the best coaches in the NFL. But he does seem to be a little bit of a like a control obsessive. And it's part of like the offense. It's the conversation we had the other day about how I thought the way that they handled overtime, how like Andy Reid told all the players. They all knew about it. They all knew the rules. They went over it several times.

And Kyle Shanahan, they didn't go over it. It's like, I know the rules. They don't need to know the rules. He wants to be like the one who is controlling everything on the field. And he's really good at that. But he needs, I think, and again, like, they very well could have easily won the Super Bowl and we would be having a different conversation. But I think he would probably be better suited, like trusting people a little bit more.

Like let the players freelance a little bit more, let the coaches do their job. Maybe that's not the way he's wired, but I don't know. More importantly, as you said, would just be like a not a fun guy to work for. No. Did you watch Succession? Of course. So I have not, but I've seen all of the memes at this point. Kendall Roy, yeah.

Man, he really looks spot on. He does look like him, yeah. But from the few episodes I have seen, Kendall Roy is not good at his job, so it's not like the easiest. Like, again, I'm not the biggest Shanahan guy in the world. I didn't like how he treated Wilkes this year. That said, he's got a little bit more. But there are, like, Kendall is competent enough to continually get to, like, almost the thing that he wants the most, and then fall spectacularly. So that is the connective thread there to Shanahan.

And look, there was a photo the other day. I don't know if this was from the locker room this week, but it was Shannon sitting on the floor of the locker room looking completely dejected and more than anything looking completely sped. And it was like, oh, man, I've seen on Twitter. I've seen that meme a million times. And he actually looks like Kendall Roy. He does. What do you think about them next year? I think they have, like, legendaryly bad vibe, Super Bowl hangover potential.

I agree with you. And on tomorrow's show, we're going to do a little NFC draft, the teams that we think are most likely to win the NFC next year, starting at this point. And I agree with you. Now, that said, I thought they were going to backslide this year because I thought they were like so overly obsessed with the NFC. championship game, that they were going to work themselves into a lather.

They had the wrong, like, operating procedure, and that Brock Purdy was going to turn into a pumpkin, and that didn't happen. They were outstanding this year. But having also lived through this year's Eagles season, I would imagine that they are in for they are in for a rude surprise. You know, Danes, shout out to Danes has those stats on Twitter about, like, how rare it is for the teams that lose the Super Bowl to get back even close. close. It's just, it's so emotionally and physically draining. Plus, like, getting everybody

to pull in the same direction and also just the obvious, like, statistical regression that's going to come. I would be, like, I would be surprised if the Niners are a, like, a very good team mixture. I'm just wondering when their salary cap crunch is coming. Because, you know, I think Schaefter or somebody tweeted out their list of free agents. It was not really any of their good players at this point. I think, like, Chase Young might have been the, the best player who I think is probably an overrated player and not necessary to what they do. When do these guys become too expensive? Because at some point, that has to be the case, right?

Like, they're going to have to pick between Iyuk and Debo probably at some point. I mean, you know, we talked about, we're about to talk about Reddick and his salary. Nick Bosa is making an insane amount of money. I don't know. At some point, obviously Purdy is going to make some more money than last pick in the draft money. Right, yeah. He's not even eligible until next year, I think. Well, okay.

I mean, I guess that's one of the things about him. Now that the season is over and he did not win the Super Bowl, so I can actually happily speak about this, it's a major team-building advantage to have him. Like, he is. Oh, sure. You know, some people say, like, he's not a starting, he's definitely a starting level quarterback.

Of course he is. And I think he's probably closer to the mid-tier than maybe some people would want to admit. Like, you know. Yeah, and he's probably not like scheme independent. like you couldn't just drop him wherever and he would be a top 15 quarterback but in that offense absolutely and that's really all that matters that's fine but I think he I mean I don't think there are players in the 20s late 20s you know in terms of starters in the NFL that could do what he did with that with that offense so that's a huge team building advantage she makes no money sure but

you get they only got one more year of that specific advantage now he still will probably not get paid at the top of the market but no and they're probably you know after pushing him for MVP, be like, you're actually not that good. Oh, well, he'll, like, look at Shanahan wrong in the lunch line, and all of a sudden, Shanahan will want to replace him. Well, maybe he'll take another guy at the last pick of the draft and see if you can do it again. All right, before we get into the Eagles conversation and Sweat for Recredit, let me tell you about Philly sports trips, because spring training has started.

We got John Foley on the scene down there, and you can join them in the middle of March. We are talking about the trip to Clearwater with Philly Sports Trips for our our very first P-H-L-Y spring training takeover. You can hang with Philly's legend Charlie Emmanuel. Philly sports trips plans the whole experience out from flights and hotels to game tickets and transportation. Spend St. Patrick's Day on a private yacht with a catered dinner and drinks. You can live that Z-Burm lifestyle. Be on the lookout for more events throughout the year with Philly sports trips.

Once again, the trip is March 13th to 18th. So don't wait to book. to all p hly.com slash events to learn more and book your trip. And I will also tell you about our friends at bagels and co. We're talking Brooklyn style bagels made here

in Philly. We're talking huge bagels, the biggest bagels in Philly, and also the largest variety. Bigger and larger. They've usually got 15 to 20 different types to choose from daily. They've got seasonal bagels as well. They had a nice Valentine's Day presentation. They'll have a St. Patrick's Day one coming up. Large variety of cream, cheese, and smears as well.

Affordable prices, because in today's inflationary world, they think that's key. They don't want this to be a specialty occasion. Bagel place. They want this to be an everyday bagel place for the work in man or woman. So for the best Brooklyn-style bagels made right here in Philly, head to www.thebagelsandco.com slash store-dash-locator to find the closest bagels and co near you. All right, handsome Rich.

Let's get into the question that is posed in the title for this episode, in the thumbnail, Hassan Redick or Josh Schwett, both guys entering the final year of their current contracts. We know that Hassan Reddick wants a contract. We've talked about it all week. He has been granted permission to sort of see what his market value is across the league and potentially land a trade elsewhere if that team is willing to give up compensation to make it worth the Eagles while, but not definite that he will be out to do that. door. Josh Schwett is entering the final year of his extension that he signed in 2021 or 22. 22. Shwett is younger. Reddick is more productive. Sacks-wise. Where would you lean? Well, I think it obviously depends on the money, Bo. So let me ask you a question.

Let's say both of those guys were free agents this offseason. Eagles didn't franchise tag them. They were out on the open market. I guess what's the ballpark of what you think they would get paid because Sweat is making $9 million now, what's Redick making? 15 million. I think we can probably both agree. Well, in Sweat's case, we'll see.

I think it would be a situation where sweat would get more total guaranteed money, but Reddick would have a higher average annual value for sure. Okay. I mean, so we have seen that you know, I think there were some reports out there that Redick might want

you know, $25 million $1, mid-20s, things like that. Do you think that would be doable if he was on the open market? I don't think he'd get 25. I mean, maybe if there was a real bidding word. I think there are some pretty good edges on the market this year, including Brian Burns and Chase Young, he said. I think he's more likely to get like 22-ish,

but you never know. I do think that he would get a higher average price tag than Josh Sweat would get. there's a team who thinks that Josh Swet like checks out physically, then I think that they'd be willing to give him like three or four years worth of guaranteed money. And I guess part of the question for me is, what the hell happened to Josh Swet this year, man? Like, and look. That's a huge question.

I know that he played a ridiculous amount of snaps early in the year. And that, I think that needs to be mentioned on the Sean Desai revisionist history tour where like, you know, this guy was so much better. He was playing Josh Sweat too much. Like, it's very clear. Yes. And that hurt the defense by the end of the season. But I also just can't forget that this guy, like, he didn't touch the quarterback for two months.

I mean, after the buy, he had zero sacks. Was his last sack in the Dallas game? Yes, in the Dallas game before the buy. And he had seven quarterback hits after the buy of, compared to 16 before the buy. Did I say before? 16 before, 7 after, with no sacks. I felt like every post game... Now, he did have a sack in the playoffs

in the forgettable playoff loss to the Tampa Bay Bucks. But I think that's a huge question. And I do worry a little bit that, like, we've seen the best of Josh Sweat. He is 27. You would imagine that he has more years of his prime left. But I don't know if he can be a like a 1A edge rusher. and like he has had he has not missed a lot of games despite having like so much concern over that knee coming into the league but i don't know i it feels like i i would be worried that like the the car is just like ready to break down sort so to speak um i know you you talked about this with zach and she'll i think they disagreed with you and said that sweat would get more in a trade yeah i stand by that you think reddick would get more

I do. I mean, I think Reddick is a better player, right? And I think that's clear at this point. I know the age is a, there is a discrepancy there, but I think as you have pointed out, like edge rushers age a little bit better than some other positions. It's not the same as cornerback. I guess I would, if Sweat got more in a trade,

then I think I would trade him. I agree. Towards Redick, right? If that is the case, I would pay Redick, and then you're telling me that I can trade the war, worst player, and he'll give me more draft capital to kind of fill in some of the other positions that I'm going to have to go cheaper on to offset Redick getting paid, whatever it is, $20 million, $22, $25, whatever it is.

But, like, I don't think either option is great, and that is partially a result of just the defensive line completely fell apart at the end of the year. And I really have no idea what to think of pretty much any of these guys outside of Jalen Carter, I think, just hit the wall. And is the flip side that if you could get more feretic, you would be happy to trade, well, not happy, but you would be willing to trade him? Well, then I think it becomes a legitimate question. Like, do you think probably a second round pick is what you're looking at? At least, I think.

I think a second plus something is probably the likely return. Well, look, I think that's a legitimate question then because sweat still is younger, right? I just really don't feel good about this last couple months. Like normally, I would just say, I would say just take the younger guy, you know, give him the money, like that's cold hard NFL business, that type of thing.

Trade Reddick, you know, for what you can get and get younger on defense. But again, it is such an important position. And I don't, I don't feel comfortable if he's like my main edge rusher at the end of the year. Do you think, I guess I wonder, like how do these guys fit in the Fangio scheme?

Because on the one hand, you know, I think you had. one of the Chicago guys say that, like, they were at, the Chicago scheme was at its best when Cleo Mac was wrecking games. When they had two good edge rushers, yeah. But on the other hand, it seems like that scheme is also not like, just go get the quarterback and pin your ears back. Right.

I think that, as Zach has said, like, if you can't make the most out of a really good pair of edge rushers, then, you know, how good is your scheme to begin with? so I would trust that that Fangeo is going to use them correctly. That's not to say that they won't drop. He will have to drop. And the thing I said the other day, which I stand by, is like there's a difference between Hassan Reddick dropping when there's like five defensive linemen on the line

and three defensive tackles are just predictably rushing versus dropping so that a nickel can rush. And even if it's still a four-man rush, like it's part of the confusion of the defense to the quarterback. I think that's part of it and also the messaging is part of it. But the other flip, the other thing is like if you pay him ahead of time, then he's not going to complain too much about dropping because it's not like he has to chase sacks to get paid more the next time.

Totally, yeah. My thing with the Fangio scheme is like you have to pay him before you put him in it, right? Because he's going to want to have a bunch of sacks so he can go get paid if that's the – if there isn't a – contract agreed to. So I think to answer the question finally is I would prefer to keep Reddick. But, like, I don't want to pay him more than, like, $25 million, right? I really don't think he would have to.

I don't know what he's asking for, but I would be surprised if he's, if that's their price tag. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, because he's clearly overperformed this last salary and this last contract to the point where even after signing, one year after signing it, he was grumbling about it this here already. So like you clearly have to do do something this year. Right. It's trade him or not. Do you, so I haven't heard you and Zach talk about this or maybe I just forgot. Do you think though only one of those guys is going to be on the roster this year?

I think that is most likely. I all like the thing is if you sign Reddick, then how does Josh Schweck feel about being brought back and having to play on his number? Like are you going to be able to pay both of them after having used the first round pick on? Nolan Smith last year. It probably doesn't seem like the right use of like cap resources. So I would be surprised if they're both back, I think. It would be nice if I felt better about Nolan Smith after year. Well, we're going to get to that.

Yeah, I think that's a big part of the conversation. And by the way, you too can play along with Flew World Order. You know, last couple episodes, Zach and I went through ranked the 29 players who are either going to be free agents or possible trade candidates this offseason from 1 to 29 and how likely we are to think the Eagles are going to bring them back. We have the written article on all p.hly.com for the diehards, and you can play along in the comments. So, I don't know, maybe we'll have like a, some kind of contest.

Whoever wins can, you know, send Zach a picture of their feet or something like that. I don't know. Speaking of Zach, where do you think his allegiance is lie in this debate? Because on the one hand, Josh Sweat is his boy. But Reddick's a Philly guy. Have you seen where Tissan Reddick is from? Yeah, right over there. It's a good question.

I think it's tough. He's the one who said that sweat might be traded, so he has already stabbed him in the back. I think he's not losing sleep over that. He's losing sleep over lots of things, but not that. All right, let's transition then to Nolan Smith because that's a big part of the conversation here. And it's not entirely unlike the situation with Nicobi Dean last year

where Nicobie Dean could not get on the field as a rookie because Kaiser White and T.J. Edwards were playing too well, and they stayed healthy. And so the Eagles entered year two with Nekobi Dean, penning him into being the top linebacker without having really seen him on the field. Now, Nolan Smith was on the field more than Nikobe Dean was last year, but they didn't really see what they needed to see. He was playing about 10 snaps a game in this very limited role, and I think it would require a real leap of faith to, like, Penn's.

cancel him into being the Hassan Reddick replacement, I think he can handle like the drop duties. But if you're asking him to be like a 1B edge rusher, I would say that, you know, that would be a lot to ask. It is so funny how quickly the draft narratives turn, right? I'm thinking back to 2020 on the heels of, let's see, Andre Dillard, J.J. R. Sago, Whiteside, Jalen Rager. And I think the narrative that, by the way, I believed, and clearly the Eagles believed, they heard people say, will you just take the guy from the SEC? Like, will you just take the guys that we see playing in the National Championship team? Yeah, there's a classic overcorrection. And here we are, a few years later, and I believe at Locker Room Cleanout Day, Jordan Davis.

Now, I'm paraphrasing here, so I don't have the exact words that Jordan Davis said. but Jordan Davis said something along the lines of all right well Fletch might be gone you know BG might be gone I guess it's it's on the young guys now you know it's on the it's on the Georgia guys and I heard that and I thought oh no so it's like we got what we wanted and I don't like what I see yeah maybe a little too much of it and I think there I think there is I don't know if it's like a like a click

or if it's just there are so many of them, it's unavoidable. But I do wonder what the dynamic is in the locker room between like the Georgia guys and everybody else. It's also like those are the recent high draft picks. All of them happen to be from Georgia on defense. I don't know. It feels like it's like a weird locker room dynamic that has developed. Well, and it would be better.

Like I'd be willing to overlook the dynamic because obviously that's key in a football locker room. If they were playing better, it's uh this sounds stupid what I'm about to say sounds stupid but should you draft guys from such a loaded defense like is it like almost like the Ohio State offense type of thing where it's hard to evaluate

the quarterback just because they're throwing to these unbelievable receivers and you just don't know what they're going to look like in the pros because like right if everybody's good you're asking less of everybody yeah I think that's I think there might be something to that well especially at the positions like linebacker and safety where like it really is dependent on what's around you

what your responsibilities are like if you're on a loaded defense but you happen to be an edge rusher getting you know 18 sacks a season I'm interested none of those Georgia guys got a lot of sacks no those are like one-on-one positions I don't know and even on a loaded defensive front if you're rotating and not really playing that many snaps and then you get to the NFL and you got to play what like 60 70 snaps a game it's clear that some of these guys weren't ready for it. Now, maybe that might just be Jordan Davis's build, I would say.

That might be that type of thing. Or it might just be Jalen Carter getting used to the NFL. I mean, here's the thing. Jalen Carter, I think, is going to be amazing. And I think he's already pretty amazing. He needs to find a way to not completely, you know, fall off a cliff towards the end of the year. Did you see his back and forth with John Feliciano on Twitter?

I did. Or Instagram, whatever it was? I did. And I'm even more confused after. after starting to look at it. For those of you who haven't seen this, so Feliciano is the Niners right guard who got injured during the Super Bowl.

He was already rotating with Spencer Burford during the game, but he's off the field when Chris Jones gets the free rush to Brock Purdy on like the, not game deciding, but like the very last possession of the game when they hold them to a field goal in the red zone. And Feliciano goes on Twitter the next day

and is like, well, don't blame Mike McClure. lynch you the right tackle that's on the right guard for getting that and Spencer Burford's like dude I'm sitting right here man look I thought I was your teammate too and Feliciano's like oh sorry I was hung over like okay that's a good that's a good excuse and then Jalen Carter chimes in from elsewhere like this is the guy who was bringing up my dead teammate and talking smack during the Eagles Niners game that's why I was so emotional in that game and then Feliciano chirps back with like well this guy threatened my family. Okay. So, you know, who knows? But I think that there is a reputation in the league that

John Feliciano is not a good guy. So I don't know. Yeah, I mean, that's straight out of the rivalry continues between the Niners and the Eagles. That's straight out of the Richie Incognito School right there. Yes. That's rough stuff. Yeah. So I don't know. Jalen Carter, I still think very highly of him. What did you make of Howie puffing his chest about Nicco I thought it was really weird. Like, I like Nikobi Dean a lot personally. He's a very smart guy. He's a good, interesting guy to talk to.

I think saying with any degree of certainty what you think his career is going to be like would be silly. We have no idea. He didn't play as a rookie and he couldn't stay healthy in year two. And when he was on the field, I thought he was fine. I didn't think he was special. I thought he was fine.

I think that he should be penciled in as one of the two linebackers next year. I think they need to find somebody who on paper they think can be better than him next year. Now, maybe that's more messaging to Nacobi Dean from Howie Roseman, like using that pulpit. But yeah, I mean, nobody knows what he's going to be like. I know he got unlucky with injuries this year, but I have never seen him flash in a way where Even as he was hurt, I wasn't like, oh man, I wish Nicobi Dean was playing right now. I mean, I did. Well, yeah, when Nicholas Morrow was out there.

But that says more about Nicholas Morrow than Nkobie Dean. And to be fair, like luck is a part of it, but part of the reason that he fell in the draft is because he's a slighter build for the position and he got hurt in training camp and then got hurt in the season. Like there is a real question about whether he can hold up physically. Yeah. So, I mean, did he have any standout games? I remember he forced the fumble in the preseason game. That's right.

I'm not writing home about that one. You know? That's great. So between... So Jalen Carter is obviously going to be at the top for you. Yeah. But in terms of living up to their draft status, Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis,

Nekobo, Keeley-Ringo, Nolan Smith. How would you rank those guys? So I wonder, this is probably the hot take. Is Keelie Ringo going to be number two on that list? I think that's a reasonable take. In terms of living up to the spot, you know, he cost a third round pick, essentially. And I felt like he had some games where, again, I'm not crunching the all-22, but it did seem like he had some games where he flashed and he had some good reps and coverage.

Do you think he's going to start this year? Like, what do you think his status is going into training camp? Is he, is it a position battle? Is he the favorite to start? I think it's a position battle for the. the starting spot opposite Dariusleigh, and I think he wins it. I think they sign a, you know, Stephen Nelson type to compete for that job and hope that Ringo wins it. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And I'm okay with that because... And that's presuming that they move on from James Bradbury.

Well, I'm presuming that. Well, yeah, but I mean, you know, it's possible that they don't, but yeah, I think that's my expectation. Please, please. I need that. I just, it was so painful to watch at the end of the season. Poor guy. So I think he has a chance to live up to that spot. And the issue is Davis and Smith. Like what is Jordan Davis right now? Because it was such a weird year. Like a month in, I was feeling really good about Jordan Davis.

Yeah, I remember saying that first month of the season, it was like the single most encouraging thing that was going on was that he had turned into a pass rusher. I think you also said, and by the way, I agreed with this, that Eagle's defensive tackle was one of the strongest position groups in the entire league. Yeah. Well, that went to complete shit. That's good.

You're sitting in the Zaxe. You get to work blue. That's good. I mean, Fletcher Cox, stayed good. Yeah. Jailen Carter stayed okay. But, yeah, the Davis thing, defensive tackles historically take a while.

So, like, I am willing to be convinced that there is more to come from Jordan Davis. But my, like, honest belief is that. that I don't think that he's ever going to be more than a two-down player, which is fine. And as a useful part of the defense, probably not worth the pick that they used to get him, you know, when they could have had Kyle Hamilton or whoever. I would say that I am, if I was ranking it, I think I would go Carter 1, Ringo 2. And then I don't know about those other three in terms of living up to the pitch. I mean, I guess

Nicobi Dean would be number three for me, maybe, it might be Nolan Smith. I would say I probably feel the least good about Jordan Davis turning out to be worth trading up to number 13 for. It just felt like Nolan Smith was so small out there. He really does look small. And that's, but look, I will

at least give him not a complete pass for his first year. He also was playing off ball linebacker for a little bit just because the team was so depleted. That's not fair to him. Like that's clearly not what his position is going on. Sure, but no, yeah, I'm not grading him off of that. No.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, get him in a more, I don't know, get him in a role that shows his strengths a little bit more. So do you think, do defensive tackles take longer than edge rushers? Or are they both kind of? Historically, yes. All right. Well, and I guess the argument for Davis is, okay, well, now he's playing in a 3-4, right? He can kind of play that nose tackle.

He can, if he is the type of player, maybe he's not worth that first round pick, but if he is, you know, the best player he can be, he's in the scheme that he would want to be in, right? Where he's, you know, he's occupying a couple blockers and stuffing the run and things like that. But I would like to see it in November. It felt like he had that one great play where he chased down Josh Allen at the end of the Bills game. And then I felt like he was like, he was like, that's it. I'm done. Yeah, it was to me it was like a video game.

Like, that one play expended his entire energy bar, and he's like, that was it for the rest of the season. It was a good play, though. Yeah. He's like, do I make this sacrifice? Yes. See you next year. And then he got up and said, well, December's going to be a rough one for me. Yeah, exactly.

By the way, the Eagles yesterday made a signing, Rich. They signed Julian O'Quara, who used to be for the Detroit Lions. And he was like a guy who's been a capable passfreshure in the league. So maybe that's their Hassaneretic replacement there. Maybe they're out on Nolan Smith and counting on Julian O'Quara. Everybody knows you make the splashes and free agency on Valentine's Day. That's right. That's one the best players.

Yeah, that's exactly right. All right. Now, we mentioned Fletcher Cox. Tell me as an Eagles fan, how do you feel about Kelsey, Cox, Graham, how eager are you to have those guys back? I think I want them all back. in part because BG, I assume that's for not that much money, I would say. Right. The other two would make more.

But Kelsey is still, if he's not the best center in the league, he's one of the two or three best centers in the league. And, you know, I don't. Do you think that Jason Kelsey is overexposed at the moment? Yeah. But you know what? It's okay. Yeah.

He is. I mean, I'll take all the content I can get. Yeah. Do I think that him in a luchador mask walking behind Taylor Swift, like, partying is over-exposed? Yeah, yeah, I do. Okay. But I don't know. On the one hand, I think he's over-exposed.

On the other hand, like, I think he does this just because, like, he's really close with his brother, and his brother happens to be the one who's... Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, he'd be doing this anyway. Yeah. Right. He would be doing this in Seattle. Yeah. I don't believe that there's any, aside from, like, doing the podcast, anything that's, like,

done for fame on Jason Kelsey's part. Yeah. So I hope he comes back, man. Like, you know, I just think he still is playing at a really high level. I just wonder, there were so many of those touch pushes this year where I saw him get up. Yeah.

And you could see it in his head. It was like, oh, man. Did you see there was, I know you and Zach talked about the Pro Bowl when you guys did the show together? He did, like, the snapping thing. So ridiculous. Very ridiculous, but, like, just seeing him, like, wretch and stretch his body just to get down to snap the ball.

Like when you know that his body is like just broken and so sore. Like that was the first time I was like, oh, I don't know if he's going to play. Just, you know, just thinking about how much my back hurts at this age just lifting two children. Like, I'm not playing football. Especially when they're not wearing the pads when you see those guys, those guys walk. It's tough. Yeah, yeah. I always used to, again, different sport.

watching Doc Rivers walk was always painful. And, you know, he's back coaching now, and I got to watch him walk again. It's rough. Who's your favorite person to watch walk? Let me give you the answer by the end of that. Okay. I'll circle back. Okay, so you want Kelsey back?

And how about Fletcher Cox? He was good last year. I know we're a little bit biased. He is a colleague of ours. I thought it was the best player on the defense. Yeah. And I guess that's more of an issue. Like, with all due respect to Fletch, like, he shouldn't be the best player on the defense at this point.

Yes. But I thought he was very good. And, yeah, I would like to have him back just because of the uncertainty surrounding all these other guys that we just talked about. And how do you feel like, do you have a sense in your mind of how likely those are? I don't know. I guess the longer the Kelsey thing drags out, I guess maybe it's false hope. like, I don't know, didn't, it was reported that he told everybody he was retiring, though. And look, here's the thing. Football players changed their minds, right?

Yeah. Tom Brady, we saw that. He got, he basically came back, I think, to spite Schaefter. He was like, I'm announcing this on my own podcast or whatever. Right. I'm going to play another year and stink. Right. Take that, Sheffter.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to feel about the Kelsey thing. I have, in the past, felt confident he was going to continue to play. Now I'm, like, very on the fence. And I don't know. I feel like I lean like maybe 51 turkeys that he'll come back. But I don't know. I mean, again, it has nothing to do with his level of play at this point.

Like, he clearly can still do this at a really high level. What do you think about Fletch? That locker was pretty clean at the end of the year. I think he's playing too good. And the thing about Fletcher Cox is, like, Fletcher Cox is not going to have the, like, broadcasting deals waiting for him that Jason Kelsey is going to have. You know, like Jason Kelsey is going to be able to make money for a long time.

I don't know what other job Fletcher Cox is going to get to pay him $10 million next year. Come on back, Fletch. Yeah, I don't know. He's playing at a high level. I used to love Agassi's little quick steps. That is true. I do like the, I did like those little agassi. That Messi has sort of a similar thing when he's walking.

It's like a little sort of like, like, like, like, uh, penguin wattle steps. Those are pretty good. Good question. Julie, anybody would come to mind for you for walking? Okay. The other thing you wanted to talk about is just like general heading into free agency, what you think is the top priority for the Seagulls team?

Where do you stand there? Well, I know you've said safety is the spot. And I mean, it has to be on defense, right? if they are going to look in free agency. Like if you're going to look at offense, that seems like that's more of a draft thing, right? Where you're drafting lane successor or something like that. I don't think you want to pay for the help that you need on offense.

I feel like you have enough there. You should. Well, I think in general, you have enough. But I think the Eagles path to like Super Bowl relevance is they need to have a top five offense. Like the offense is going to have to carry them. I don't think the defense is going to get to that level. So, like, I do think that they need to make some changes on offense.

I think they need another weapon in the passing game. Like, you know, maybe they needed another running back. They probably need another offensive lineman. I think they need to do something there. But I don't, yeah, I agree that barring a free agent running back who, you know, the market changes and they get them for, like, $2 million or whatever, I think most likely that's coming through the draft. The reason I say safety, I don't know that it's the most important priority because I think read Blankenship is good.

You know, you can count on Sydney Brown being a factor at some point. But like the market, like there are going to be options available there. So I think they will make a change there. Is it the most important thing? I mean, I guess. I don't know. I'm not even sure that I feel strongly about that. Well, is it one big splash or are they kind of sprinkling a little bit of money on one position?

Yeah. And they don't, I mean, they do not have a ton of. to spend. They are a little bit constrained, no doubt. Well, and then I think that comes to like, maybe you just sprinkle a little more money on linebacker, right? Not anything crazy. It's like you said. I think, yeah. The Kaiser White's of the world. Right. What do they get for Nigel Bradenback in the day?

Whatever it is. But just not a ton of money, but a little bit more so you have a base level of competency there that you just did not this season. Yeah, the spine of the defense, as it were, the guys in the middle. Yeah. And the thing was, safety too is it's like you said i i think reed is a solid player sydney brown was intriguing at the end of the year the problem is you know when is he coming back right and i know what's it what was their bet that zach and i had was it september the calendar year of september he'll be back versus october i think that's right yeah i think it was

september i'll look it up i don't know i mean that those injuries take what usually eight nine months so you know even if you get him back in the calendar month of september he might be full speed he might not be ready to be you know the Sidney Brown who had that interception return against Arizona until like you know like November October so I'm with you I would like to see safety obviously it's a very important part of Fangio's defense with the with the rotation after the snap and and things like that but you know what level of safety are we talking about here is it is that the Antoine Winfields or is it a little bit yeah like I don't I I think they probably won't

pay at the very top of the market but you know if it's like a Mike Edwards or something like that. Somebody of the after the top two guys, something like that. I don't know. I mean, look, anything to make this defense 16th in the league? Exactly. That's what it is. It's about just getting to competence.

Just the highest floor position. So I would not spend in free agency on offense. But it's like you said, maybe you sprinkle a little bit on linebacker. Maybe you sprinkle a little bit on a third receiver, right? So Jalen Hertz. Do you think they would screen those third receivers by asking Jalen Hertz, would you throw the ball to him? They should. And he says, no.

And he's like, all right, we'll move on to the next guy. What about him? They've signed Gillen Hertz's brother to be the number three receiver. At least he'll throw him the ball. Great job by Julia finding. She's got it in her notes. That was indeed the bet. I said, Zach said Sidney Brown would be back in September.

I said after September. So there you go. Speaking of Zach, and I mean, you know that he's in some, like, idyllic location, beautiful weather, all of his family is around. He's got like the world at his at his fingertips, and he's going to be just listening to this podcast. So we should give him something to listen to. That's about him.

He told us, after the show yesterday, he said, you never asked about basketball this week, which is my fault. I should have asked about basketball. And he told us that, A, he took a shot this week. So he snapped his Archie Diakano streak. he said he sort of rushed a layup and he missed the layup. No big deal. Glad he's getting a shot up.

He also took a half-court shot at the end of the game as the buzzer went off. He wasn't part of the field goal savings. For S's and Gs. Yep, that was fine. Didn't go in. But he was very proud about this. He said with the game on the line, last minute of the game, his team was winning. And he said, he asked for the ball.

He said, I want the ball. And they fouled him. And he knocked down both his free throws. great job by Zach, and he was very proud about the fact that he wanted the ball, that he wanted to make those pressure free throws, which was great, except he said they were winning by six or eight points at the time. Oh, come on, Zach. So how pressure-laden were those?

It's not like they were up by one? It's not like they were up by two. We got to make a two-possession game. They're already up by six or eight. Were they one-in-once? So you know that. I think they're two-shot fouls. Oh, come on.

I mean, that's very little pressure at that point. Of a game. As Khalif pointed out in the comments, it does seem like he at least is looking at the basket more than Ben Simmons is at this point. Ben Simmons, I watched him a couple weeks ago. It is very sad. He just dribbles sideways now and doesn't look at the basket. So it's good to see that Zach is taking the initiative on that.

Are these the first shots he's taken all season? I think so. Isn't that wild? Well, in a rec league, especially too, where I think everybody turns out. turns into a gunner at some point. Yeah, I mean, just, I mean, just, like, make it worth your, well, like, what do you think he does in layup lines? Is he just passing the ball?

Rebounding and passing. He just runs, like, on the left side. He goes to the back of the left side. He goes to the back of the line. Yeah. No, that's good. I mean, Zach is, you know, I think he prides himself on being a winning player. Team player, yeah.

How has his team fared this year? Well, I think they were not winning, but that was their second win. That's big. I think they had a rough start, but they've, you know. they're hopefully turning things around. Look, I'm happy. I think he needs to be more involved in the offense, though. I'm not, look, it's great that you're a floor general

and you're setting up everybody, but, you know, I'm not a fan of low-usage players. Like, I think the defense has to respect you a little bit, and he's got to work on maybe finding that balance. But look, every good point card has to figure that out, right? There's a balance between, you know, getting your own offense and setting everybody else up. I mean, I'm sure it's great to play on his team, right?

If I'm getting all the shots, like, I mean, I've played in many a rec league game where I'm shooting two of 14 from beyond the arc. At this point in your, like, basketball career, what is your favorite, like, setup of a game? Like, you want to play three and three half court? You want to play full court, five on four. Like, what's your... I want to play pickup, but it's not pickup. I want to play a full court game, but I just want to play with my friends. At this point, I have... Full court five on five? Yeah, because I like to run. Okay.

I'm not playing basketball for, like, showing off, like, my three-point stroke. No, I want to be exhausted by the end of the day. And it's a very different thing. Like, even if I have been, like, running or playing tennis or doing, you know, any sort of aerobic activity, basketball is a different type of win by catching it. You were so gassed the first time that you play. But I just want to play with my friends at this point. I've gotten in...

You know their games. There's no getting to know the style of games. Yeah. It's not that serious. Like, I played in some of these rec leagues in Philly with a couple of my friends. I'm going to take it way too seriously. We would get in fights every game. Every game there'd be a fight.

First off, teams would play zone, which I hated. Come on, we're adults here. What are we doing here? Like, this is not Jim Bayheim trying to win an NCAA tournament game. Like, play some man. That would be my first complaint. Unless that's your way of saving your legs, I guess. I guess, but again, that's the thing.

Some of these teams are so competitive if they want to win the game. I'm just trying to get a run in, man. I'm just trying to play. And again, as somebody you played fairly serious high school basketball, I am not getting, big flex. I am not getting in a fight

when I'm 28 years old playing basketball. The other thing, too, is a lot of these rec league games in Philly are, the gyms are so small. And Zach told me where he plays. That's actually a pretty big court, which I think is good. Some of these courts in Philly,

they're so small. there are these tiny gyms that are, you know, 35 years old, you know. And the games are like 10 o'clock at night. Yeah. And of course teams are going to get in the fights if the courts are that small. It's so bad. So I just want to play with my friends because I know we're not going to get in any fights. We're going to give each other shit.

And, you know, after it's over, we're all going to go home and be happy. That's why I like the slightly smaller court four-on-four. Sure. That's my favorite. Like the spacing is just a little. bit different. Yeah, it's a little bit easier. The problem with three on three, like you said earlier, if you play in that game, well, some of your friends are like not very good players, but you just want them to run. I don't want to shoot every time. It's like, all right, it's the fish straight possession

where I'm firing it up. I do like the smaller court four on four, though. That's good. And also, it's hard to get numbers, too. So that's often something you default to. Okay, there you go. Good basketball talk here to close out the PHLY Eagles podcast. Anything else you want to get off your chest today? I mean, you did some pre-show work putting these notes together. I want to make sure they go to good use. Yeah, you've been traveling a lot. Is this your busy part of the schedule here?

It is. Did Senior Bowl, Super Bowl. We've got the Combine coming up in a couple weeks. Indianapolis, great food city. That was a great tweet to Zach from this morning. The guy said, like, Zach, have fun. I don't know where you're going, but the good news is it's a great food city. By the way, is it just St. Elmo's, that's it, right?

Like, it's that and steak and shake across the street? Well, there's, like, the St. Elmo's knockoff that's right next to, like, hairy in his or whatever. Yeah, I would not say that Indy is a great food city. Of all the, I mean, I've had some good meals in Indy, but, yeah, I wouldn't put that up there. Do you like the shrimp cocktail? I think it's fine. I think it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a novelty. It's, that burns my nostrils.

It's a little tough. Yeah, it's clear, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's dumb. It's fine. I do like Indy in that, I don't know, I find it to be kind of a very, like, walkable city. It can handle big events, kind of. Like, it's spread out enough. Yeah, it's a convention city.

It's built for that. Yeah. But I also agree with, I think, it's Shields take that, like, the pearl clutching from the NFL media about, like, how dare you consider moving the combine from Indy, like, that would be a disaster. Like, let's calm down a little bit. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. So that's good.

You went to Mobile. You like that place, right? Like a mobile? Yeah. Walkable downtown. After Vegas, like how many days is the ideal Vegas stay for you? I would like to hear what Julia has to think about this because we were there together. I mean, I think it's different if you're there for work.

If I was not there for work, I would not want to be in Vegas for more than two nights for sure. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? You were interviewing Donna McNab and all these people. And DeAndre Carter, most importantly. Yes. Yeah, two nights.

Just get me out of there. What do you think, Julia? No nights for you? Two nights seems fair. It's just like the lack of oxygen and needing to get outside. Like we didn't see daylight for four days. Yeah, we were in smoke clouds more than we were in fresh air, for sure. There you go.

All right, that'll do it for this episode of the P.H.L.Y. Eagles podcast on tomorrow's show, Rich and I were going to draft the teams in the NFC. and I think it'll help us sort of recalibrate where the Eagles stand potentially in terms of who's most likely to make the Super Bowl. I think we have both played our cards already on thinking the Niners are due for a step back. So who do we think is going to take the step up? We'll figure that out tomorrow. And we've got plenty more than you can read on all p.hly.com and watch on the other shows that are going on.

Philly's spring training is going. The Sixers, tough loss last night. Flyers keep it rolling. We'll see how it all goes. So we appreciate you liking and subscribe. me to the channel, all that good stuff. We will be back tomorrow at noon for all of us here at PHLY. Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow. And as always, we love you.