PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Poor Mark Murphy will never know peace while Jalen Hurts leads the Eagles

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

Class is in session as the professor Deniz Selman joins the show for his thoughts on the proposed rule changes, including the Packers’ continued loser energy surrounding the Tush Push. And as we close out Brandon Graham week, what’s in store for the Cackler’s future? Join Zach Berman and Bo Wulf for all the latest news and thoughts on the Eagles. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

to the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast on Friday afternoon, 2 o'clock for Wolf. Zach Berman, and you'll see in the middle. If you're watching, the professor is here. Dana is Selman back from gallivanting across the world. We want to hear a little bit about that. But, you know, as Zach prepares to take a vacation very much against his will, it's nice to have all three of us together. Well, you're both back for now. Zach, good to see you. Great to see you. Excited for the show. I want to make the most of this hour. There you go. Dennis, how you doing?

Where were you? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I mean, as you guys know, I've talked about this before. I'm not as big a fan of work as Zach is. I try to model my life on being able to take as much vacation as possible. So yeah, our trip to Belize was incredible. We got to stay on a, essentially a private island.

I mean, like there's this. This must be nice. Shout out to Dustin. out to Dustin and Kim and their daughter, Amma, they bought it 21 years ago. And they have a one cabin Airbnb on there. And so you stay with that. Life of a billionaire. It's rich. And it is not, it is not, like, it is not that expensive. I mean, like, it was, it was an incredible experience and for a very reasonable price. And they cook for you. They, they like cook seafood the whole time that they, that they're catching. This is like 45 minutes

boat ride off the mainland of Belize so that you are in the middle of nothing. And they have a restaurant and bar on the island and this part is a little interesting. It's all people who live like the sailing life coming to the restaurant. They have like a

mooring fee and you can you can dock your sailboat and have dinner with them. And that means you meet people from all over the world. We had like a dinner with a Norwegian couple and talk to them about Norway. and stuff like that. So it was really cool.

So you're not like, you don't get cabin fever hanging out with this family. And their daughter is 12 years old and she was born on the island. Like she's only lived on this tiny island. You can swim around it in like 10 minutes. So it's a very interesting life for her. You think homeschool kids are weird? It was very interesting.

She is unbelievably normal, social. She gets to meet all these people who are coming out the sailboats, I guess. And they do spend one month a year on the mainland. So, but yeah, it was very interesting. Emily asked, Emily asked her, does this summer become like walking down the street for you, like the store cleaning and everything?

And she was like, what do you mean? And Emily was like, you know, like, does it get boring for you? And she's like, oh yeah, it gets boring. But walking down the street is really exciting for me. So yeah. It's all matter of perspective. Yeah, no, no.

It was super cool. And the rest of the Belize was awesome too. We did some like cave stuff and Mayan ruins and things like that. I apologize for my ignorance here. I don't know my Central America geography very well. That's near Guatemala. Is that correct? Yes, in fact, we saw Guatemala.

We saw Guatemala from the top of a Mayan pyramid that's right on the border. And that border is actually disputed because Belize used to be a British colony. And the Brits promised half of Belize to Guatemala at some certain point in time. I don't remember the year. and now Belize is independent

and Belize is like, screw that. Like that was you guys talking to England. Like you don't get like half of Belize. Belize is already very small. And so it's a disputed border with Guatemala, which adds to the fun. We were like, are they going to attack? Good thing you had an island.

You might have had to worry. Yes, we were safe. We were safe on the island. Exactly. Yeah. All right. Zach, before we get into it, there is a bit of Eagles news to get to.

Why don't you fill us in? Yeah, I saw this. Savante Maddox, departing for his hometown Detroit Lions. So, yeah, good for Avanti Maddox. And I would say to someone who I think had a better career with the Eagles than maybe, I think Eagles fans appreciate it. But look, the last year wasn't very good. And it is by pretty clear, you know, the defense got better once Savante Maddox lost his starting job. I don't know if there's a cause and effect there.

But a tough player, good player, whenever he was. was healthy. Injuries were more of the issue than anything else. And I'll say this, the final play that he made was a big play, a memorable play. And personally, someone who I always enjoyed talking to him, someone he kept it real. So congratulations to Avanti Maddox on a good career with Eagles. And now he gets to go, of all places, to go to your hometown team. I can get behind that. You know, it's funny, Avanti going to the Lions, me think of Brandon Graham, not just because the two of them are from Detroit, but you think about Avanti Maddox's Eagle's career, you know, seven years, like a full career arc, right? Like,

super impressive as a rookie, surprisingly as a fourth rounder, like wins a job on the defense. First, four years of his contract, he's one of the best nickels in the league, earns himself a second contract with the team, remains a very good player and then starts to decline a little bit. Two years ago was not great. This year obviously was a bit of a disappointment. And that's fine. And you think, okay, Avanti Max, you hope that maybe he sticks around for another year, maybe. But this is basically the end of his career. Brandon Graham, after seven years, like his career was just beginning. Then put another eight years. It's crazy. A good point. That's a really good point. Yeah, I think a lot of careers will seem like they ended badly

if Brandon Graham's the comparison point for sure. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Jess. No, no, I was just going to say, as a fan, like, I always appreciated Avanti Maddox. He was one of my favorites. I always thought it was, like, a fun player to watch. You know, every interview or whatever I saw with him, he seemed like a very likable, likable player, and it kind of sneaks up on you, like how long he's been here, right? Like, it's like, oh, man, he was one of the longest tenured eagles by the end. And I'm so happy he got to stay the extra.

three year. I know he was essentially off the team last year and then he came back. And how cool that he got to be on the team that won it and make that play that's on every like highlight reel at the Super Bowl. It's really cool. Now I know you're still in the in the film gooning process and is. I don't know if you've gotten to that play yet. But what? I've watched the entire. The film is all like gone before my eyes, but I haven't charted that. I haven't charted the defense yet. Yeah. Because it was weird like why was even on the field. Cooper DeGine got injured.

It was a very short injury. He, like, Nicked something, and so he was off the field for that reason. When I was watching it, when I was watching it live, I thought, like, maybe it was dying. But then I, like, quickly saw that it wasn't dime. And I was like, oh, there must have been, must have been an injury. And I think they set on the radio broadcast or something that, like, Cooper de Jane was hurt. So, yeah. Yeah.

It's great. Very random. Yeah. Cooper DeGine already made enough of enough of an impact on the game that I think it's okay that he wasn't on the field on that point. Now, Zach, will Dallas Goddard be moving to Detroit with Avanti? I don't think that the Lions will add Dallas Goddard. I mean, I think they are well stocked at tight end with Samuel Porter.

But those two, those who are LinkedIn, it's amazing to think that Jordan Milaata might be the last one left from that draft class. Now, it's not that amazing. It's been, it's been long enough. But it's amazing in the sense that Eagles gave extensions to those guys. It was like a narrative-based thing. four guys got contract extensions Dallas Goddard, Jordan Maillada, Josh Sweat, Avante Maddox. A real good draft.

Matt Pryor was the other pick. He's still playing and humming along. But now, you know, Jordan Maelada can do the Fresh Prince meme that Lane Johnson did with that draft class because he's the only one standing from that draft class. Well, Goddard is still here for now. Oh, sure. That's true. Which, as I saw in Professor Selman's Blue Road Order rankings,

have a lot hinging on Dals Gutter returning, but I do, but I have more hinging on Bryce Huff. Okay. I didn't look at the Delta for that. That's the big one. And based on what you're telling us, Bryce Huff is more likely, right? I mean, Bryce up is far more likely to come back than Dall Scottard is just because I do think there's, Pete, there's interested teams in Dallas Gutter.

It's a matter of like what kind of compensation the Eagles can get from, what kind of contract Dallas Gutter can get. I think Bryce Huff feels like he's very fairly. compensated. I just think it's a matter of, like, I don't know who wants to take on Bryce House contract. To that point, very quickly, Danes, before the show just tweeted out the flu world order standings, which, if you are new, was the rankings of me, Zach, and Fran in terms of how likely we thought the pending free agents and trade targets were to come back. Zach, have an early lead, very early. Tanner McKee, you and I had one, and Fran had a three. Zach Bond, you had a three. That was a good

call. I had a six. Fran had a seven. And that's the only guys who have come back so far. There have been plenty of guys who have left. But some of those guys could also come back and reenter the fold. But of the players who were still out there, Goddard, I have a three, have an eight, and Fran has a five. But then Bryce Huff, I have a five. You have a 14, and Fran has a 22. Who is the most likely, though, to be this year's Nicholas Morrow, the guy who comes back completely randomly so late in the season that you forgot that he made an impact on blue world order and maybe changes the outcome uh paris campbell yeah i was about to say that okay yeah that could be good and that would help frank and i actually saw i saw paris campbell quote our our friend josh tonnetino

who now he does a good job covering the cowboys used to work in philly um paris campbell signed with dallas and he said actually uh paris campbell told josh or told the reporters whoever he spoke with there said that he had interest in, the Eagles were interested in bringing him back, but that the Cowboys, he thought, presented more playing time opportunity for him, and that's why he went to Dallas. But he said the Eagles were interested in bringing him back.

So to that point, I actually think Paris Campbell's probably more comparable to like a Jack Driscoll type move than a Nicholas Moro type move, but we're really splitting hairs. Get into that. Explain why. Let's really get into the weeds on that. because I think like Jack Driscoll

Jack Driscoll was signed in free agency relatively early I mean not and then he got cut in camp and then return like Jack Driscoll Jack Stoll they returned early in the season Nicholas Morrow You should combine the two of them into Jack Dristole and then you'd have the best blocking tight end in football You could have done that could have done that I think probably the The the Nichols Morrow one would be James Bradbury who's just like I would say C.J. Uzama.

Or C.J. Usama, yeah. Although Morrow is good because he was such a lightning rod, like the reason the defense was bad guy. And so, yeah, Bradbury would make a little bit of sense. That would be funny. I am curious for what you guys think of the players who are still free agents, and there aren't many of them. Who do he thinks most likely to resign?

So it's Jack Driscoll, the Raven, Uzoma, Covey, and Lobato, right? That's it, I think. yes yes the most likely to come back to the eagles yes it must be covey but i think you i would i would not be shocked if track i think it would not be shocked if driscoll comes back either yeah i was going to say driscoll which is interesting when i saw um i i love professor someone's bookkeeping i appreciate that i was surprised how high bow i'm sorry fran had covey uh he had cubby too on that list and you had him five I mean, you had them pretty high.

That's true, too. Yeah. We'll see on Covey. When I was exchanging some notes with Boe before the show, I am curious to see what the Eagles do at Returner. If they seek external upgrades, which they already did by adding Avery Williams, Averturner, if they give Cooper the Gene an opportunity,

if they really want to try to have Anias Smith as the returner for this team, or if in the draft, you know, Bo was talking how they could add offensive players in the draft, if they're looking at a running back or a receiver who can contribute in the return game as well. Zach, did you ever find out more than maybe what we know about what was going on with Covey at the end of the season? Because they like had him full practice and then he was out even though he was full practice. And then it seemed like he was going to come back and he just never did. What was going on?

Yeah, I mean, well, I think the neck injury was something that they were careful with. but then I also think they didn't need that roster spot at that time. Like they didn't put them back on the 53, right? And so I think that's, I think they were preserving roster spots is my guess. But I didn't look much further into it other than I do know during the playoffs, they were especially cautious with the neck. And understandably so,

neck injuries are nothing to, you know, be to turn your head at it. To turn your head. There you go. done. Better turn of phrase than I could think of. I'm not sure if I buy the roster spot. I mean, they brought Paris Campbell onto the 53 when they could have just

kept on elevating him or whatever. I don't know. But yeah, if but they didn't need a... I was just wondering if that would speak to if it's something that affects the future, like whether that would mean that he's not coming back for that reason. I just didn't know. No, but like they gave Nick Gates a phantom injury because they needed

a roster spot for Brandon Graham, right? So going into Super Bowl week, they didn't have a surplus. of roster spots. Some good comments on the chat. CDP, saying that maybe it's because Covey was mad that the inner excellence

became the self-health book for the Eagles. He was worried that it was going to tarnish his grandfather's legacy. I also see Flew World Order. Or like smash that like button. Zach, did we get enough comments yesterday to satisfy your comment thirst?

Well, you're never satisfied, though. I did appreciate there was greater volume of comments I look and there were a few comments there commenting to the you know to satisfy Zach and I appreciate the sentiment but I would love feedback on the show right

that that would be the that'd be nice there was there was a real nice comment that there's a real nice comment about you Bo or at least that I interpret as a nice comment about you which says that you've taken you've really been nicer to me recently on the show that was a comment

on someone put and I appreciate that. I didn't notice that. Yeah, someone that came up about a few hours ago. Well, as you said yesterday, Zach, we can all get better. We all can get better. Myself, uh, paramount with that or chief among that. I agree with that by the way, but I was wondering if it's like the, like the, the baby coming or what it is, but like, you've seen a little bit of your softer side

the last few, last few weeks. Good, good. I'm gonna get on you now. Oh yeah. We have a super chat. It's only a lot for me. Who has a bit of a game theory question, Danez. Now, keep in mind, Dennis, did not design these games, but the question is, why are no points scored for correctly predicting players leave it? Well, in this case, it would be equivalent, right, to scoring for the ones leaving,

for staying, since they either stay or leave, right? And so because the total number of points is the same across all the players for all of the contestants of the game, whether we gave the points to the ones who left or the ones who stayed, it would be the same outcome. So even though it would look different. It would look different. It would look different. It would look different.

Midstream, but at the end, it would all look the same. And in the past, I've charted both, like midstream just to make it, whatever, but now I just put the pending for the others.

But yeah, at the end of the end of the season. You get lazy. Two Super Bowls in, you're lazy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, I actually thought it just cluttered the thing too much and made it confusing.

So I thought it would be better. The other super chat we have, Dennis, is from Vince, who says he loved your NBA tweet on March 16th. Speaks so much truth. I have no idea what this tweet was. Shout out, Vince. I think the real ones, like, know that I'm, that my opinions on the NBA are are not surpassed by very many. So, yeah, I just, it was a, it was a thing about, it was a thing. We're going to talk about rule changes in the NFL today. And they're all kind of like marginal changes. The NBA, like, I don't know if there's a.

single rule that that should stay in the rule book i mean the entire structure of the season the structure of the game every single thing about i mean i think i think you should not do the wrong face i think that should still be a rule yeah maybe i mean there there might be a few like that but uh for the most part the general structure of basketball is completely broken and i had a i had a tweet about that so that's what uh is uh is uh referring to it was in the context of the sixers tanking and um you know how how annoying the tanking is like from a fan perspective. But in general, I was like, yeah,

the NBA incentivizes it. And then they pretend to get mad about it. And the whole thing is just kind of a first. I did have on the topic of NBA tanking and the spirit of today's show. Before we get into proposed rule changes, we don't even know what the spirit of today's show is. Sorry. No.

Go ahead. Professor Selman has. That's a comment on us, not on you, on all of us. since we've just been rambling for 20 minutes. No, but we're going to be talking about role changes. I did want to ask you guys, and it's something we can talk about after the ad break, too. When I'm looking at all the draft stuff and I'm watching the NBA,

I'm curious, do you think the NFL should institute a lottery? Do you think that and what would be the best version of a lottery? And if I can just editorialize here or give my take, I want a lottery that, is a completely flat lottery that doesn't incentivize losing. So now the problem is this. Would it incentivize a team not making the playout? Like if you're a fringe team,

would you be less interested in making, would you try not to make the postseason? Because if you're, would you rather, instead of being the seventh seat in the NFL, have just as good a chance to make, or to get the number one pick than a team that went, you know,

two and 15. But I would like to see a lottery. system in the NFL because I jie yeah i i i think that way the NBA used to do a plot lottery before like just all the patient is the first yeah i think um that when you compare the NFL and the NBA there are like two really important differences when we talk about like the optimal structure one is in the NBA like it's pretty clear who the best players are in the draft and those players make such a big impact like it's usually kind of consensus, right, that there are like three or four players that are going to be like the best.

And it doesn't always end up that way. But at least at the time of the draft, it's very like the expected impact of the top five players is so much higher than like the 15th player, right? Whereas in the NFL, I don't think it's quite as big a difference. And the other difference in the NBA is there are so many regular season games that the tanking affects so much of the season. Like it's like you know like in the NFL Tanking isn't really that big and observed problem right like like even in the last week sometimes the team that would have won the number one pick like wins and like messes up the number one pick right? We've seen that happen multiple times the last few years So it's not as big an issue in the NFL I do still have ideas for how to fix it in the NFL a little bit But I wouldn't compare the two leagues you know what I mean like the in the NBA

Like the the NBA season is essentially like the top of the main two ingredients are like load management and tanking. Like, it's like the worst product ever. You have all these, like, incredibly talented players playing the sport that when it's played is actually very entertaining. And it's so rarely played, like between two teams actually trying to win a game

and that it doesn't turn into like a free throw contest at the end or whatever. Like actual basketball is like a rarity in the NBA. Like the NFL doesn't have that. I was in a fantasy league one time where the number one, that this was pre-allel. auction before the league went to an auction where the number one pick was was the best team that didn't make the playoff so actually the um

the incentive structures yeah so i i've always wondered like like what if the teams are you know trying so hard to win at the end of the season to get a number one pick as opposed to trying to lose to get yeah i i've posted all kinds of things about this in the past like we can like dig up my old tweets on this like one thing that i think should definitely yeah you can't that search functionality is broken Well, yeah, I probably can't anymore, but I probably have my own, like, spreadsheet somewhere still. I propose the system where no game after you're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs should help you get a better pick. So if you're eliminated, like, after week 11, like you're 0 and 11 or whatever, you shouldn't continue to have incentive to lose after that because so many games near the end of the year, like, get affected by that. So you could make it based on your record at the time you got eliminated, for example. And then you could still tank, but it would involve like tanking right from the beginning of the year, you know, which we wouldn't expect an NFL team to do.

And then you could even spin that around a little bit and make it so that once you did get eliminated, you actually maybe get rewarded for winning games at the end or something. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's not like the team, it's not like the players or the coaches necessarily share the incentives of the. organization at that point in the season anyway, so I'm not sure how much. What if it was, what if that, what if that was your, the order was based on how many games you win after being mathematically eliminated? So you could, you want to be automatically eliminated early and then, but then if you're that bad, are you really going to win games? And so I, that could, that could. And also, I mean, do the players like want the team to have a good pick is like the

other thing? So, you know, it depends, I guess, on. I actually, I think in reality, it is a better thing than not for the NFL that it is structured that way to bring everybody to the middle in, you know, the most popular league. Like in the NBA, you have teams that are just floundering forever. I think if we saw like clear tanking in the NFL, I would feel differently. Like I think if you just read the rules, I would say, ooh, that's not good. Like teams are going to tank. But then you see the team that literally has the first pick in their hands. like win on week 18 and lose that thing.

So the fact that that's happening makes me think like, at least for now, empirically, like it's not a that big problem. All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back and talk, talk some more game theory about the rules of the NFL. I'm going to tell you about our friends at Ace Hardware Home Services. I am an Ace Hardware Home Services devout follower. They've helped me out with many different things,

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What's going on? Bobby Morris is going to take down Alabama? And then I don't have multi-screen up here. Bailor and Mississippi State is 737. I see at the top of the screen. So yeah, good day. Good day, Friends, Dillard tournament stuff. and then Colorado State where I teach

2019 right now. Yeah, I was wondering why you haven't been banging the drum more for your Rams in this tournament. Yeah, I mean, I'm proud to teach there. I'll be going out there next month. Shield's teaching there this semester as well. We're going out there with Shield. Nico Medveds is doing a good job for the Rams.

Yeah, great. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's hard to be. make a bigger upgrade in any facet of life than Steve Adazio out, Zach Berwin and Shil Kapagia. Well, shout out to Dr. Then again, Steve Adazio out, you could bring in like, you know, I'm very curious what name you're going to come up with. Ted Kaczynski and it would still be an upgrade. Foh, there were a few comments in the in the chat earlier. I don't want you to, I mean, I don't want to have that they're real something you're uncomfortable with, but people do like the background today is they notice that it's different. This is a visual medium. Is there any,

are there any details you could offer as to where you might be right now doing the show? It is different. That is correct. Okay. Okay. No, I'm in, I told you. I have my, my, my principal draft tonight. I'm in New York. Yeah, that's awesome. It's awesome. At my dad's apartment. If I can give a quick bit of commentary, ask, ask your father where he gets his Wi-Fi because it's going to roll? No. no, no, it's good. You're like, yeah, you're, you're looking more crisp than at home. I mean, do you want me to be keeping nice or not? No, no, no, that is a compliment. That is a compliment.

Not really. Okay. It's a compliment to him. I mean, you're talking down on me. It's okay. The heads, the heads missed the diagonal door anyway. So, yeah. All right. Let's get into your thoughts on the rule changes, Dennis. This is, you know, we,

Zach sent out the bat signal that summoned you a couple weeks ago about your, you know, your hatred of Sequin Barkley and Dallas God are being overrated. We sent it out a couple days ago when there are new rule proposals. Give us your thoughts. Let's start with, of course, you know, your enthusiasm for protecting the tush push. Oh, yeah. I mean, the language that the Packers proposed being so specific to exactly what the Eagles do on that play makes it so bizarrely, like, targeted at one specific thing. It's such a loser energy.

It's such a loser. And also, like, it makes it less likely to pass, too. Like, it's because it's so transparently, like, about this one team's play. It's like, oh, that team that killed everyone in one Super Bowl, let's start banning things that they're good at. Like, it's just ridiculous. Like, ironically, the largest game that I've ever seen on that play was by the Packers against the Eagles in this year's wildcard playoff. I don't know if you guys remember, they ran it twice to Tucker Kraft, the tight end. And the first time they got first downs on both of them, and the first time they got it, they got eight yards on the play.

They just didn't blow the whistle, and the pilot just kept on moving. So it's kind of funny that they actually ran it themselves, and they want to ban it. they cited player safety. There were zero reported injuries, according to the NFL on that play this season. And then they cited pace of play as the other thing that it would fix to ban the play. I mean, if they're referencing things

that's their reference, yeah. Like diving over the pile like a moron like eight times, like how about banning that? Like how about making it so that that's a personal foul instead of just offside, right? making it so that that's like has a has a stronger penalty actually enforcing the defense not lining up in the neutral zone every single time would also help the pace of play because right now they call that so sporadically that every team tries to do it and i think it actually leads to more flags on the play because like it's not clear how they're going to call it and so teams are like trying to get away with everything they can and then when they do call it it it creates a pace of play issue i guess because it's more flags but i think if they were consistent on the way they actually called what the defense is doing, that would fix the problem of pace of play. Not that I think base of place of the issue. That obviously isn't why they proposed it. But anyway, yes, I fully agree

with you, though, that it is very much a loser proposal. And I'm very surprised. It's a very literal, like, please don't put it in the newspaper that I'm mad. Like, what do we? Yeah, and it's very, but don't you also think it's surprising that they actually proposed it? Like, it doesn't seem to have the legs. So, like, all they're doing is exposed. themselves as losers. It's like, did they really do? I totally agree. They need 24 votes, right?

Like, I think like five or six teams have already said that they're fine with it. So I don't think there's any way. They're not going to get nine votes to keep it, right? I mean, I think the nuance in this and, and Bo can speak on this more than I can. Or I don't know if he can or not, but the, all these rules that like these aren't voted by the competition committee these are voted by the owners right so if if a coach were to say that i'm fine with it that doesn't necessarily mean that the owner will override it and i was and i i i said bo might know more on this than i had because i i know bow's done work on the past on reporting on like some of what goes on in the room and i think sometimes like the the front office needs to convince the owner of of what to do you know like you need to go in this direction need to go in that direction. And owners can be impressionable.

Like owners might not be looking at all the data for this. They're just like, oh, yeah, let's get rid of the, you know, they hear a presentation from Green Bay. They're like, player safety. Let's get rid of the tush push, right? And so I know it's not as haphazard as that, but it's not the coaches voting for it. It's not the GM's voting for it. It's the owners voting for it. And of course, the owners get input in terms of what to vote for.

But I don't know the due diligence that every owner does when they vote. well i mean if you want to get into like the the owner politics as well like mark murphy is not someone who's going to be rallying a bunch of owners to his cause you know what i mean like he is not like in in the room of the 32 billionaires people are not like oh wait a second mark murphy is talking meanwhile he's like you know drinking his his sippy cup in the corner he doesn't have like as much to offer the owners in other areas right like a jerry Although here's an interesting quest.

This is Mark Moner. This is Mark Murphy's last time doing this. Okay. This is his final stand. This is his fit. This is, this is his baby boys. The green bay packers. This is not my football.

The Green Bay Packers have a mandatory retirement age as we covered. Mark Murphy is going to be replaced after this year. This is Mark. Murphy's final time in that room representing that. And this is the cause. I want to go out. What do I want my legacy to be? That is so ridiculous.

What a stupid thing. What's the age, by the way? Is it like 67 or something? Do you know? I do not know. I can do a quick Google search and look it up. I think it might be seven. Okay, no.

Mark and Murphy legacy games. Oh, I know. Comments is very good. Yeah. It's actually, I kind of appreciate that the Packers have that policy, right? Because sometimes. Really? Yeah.

I would have thought you would be very anti-retirement age. You're the one who wants to work until you date before you die. Yeah. I want to. What would you do? They forced you to. I want to. That's like a publicly traded company there.

And you're, you know, you have an obligation to your shareholders. And, yeah. So the spirit of the. I don't like, you know, I don't think any job should be like the Supreme Court where you just sitting there and and this is close to a political opinion. I'm pretty much. I'm not. Yeah. I, no, no, please go on.

I tend to think that the older you get, the less a fleet of mind you are. Starting at what age? Well, I don't know that. That's, that's the challenge. Noted Aegist, Zach Berman, canceled again. On the record as supporting forced retirement now. I mean, this is going to be very... I'm not saying it to stop working.

Yeah, maybe stop doing that job, you know, right? Like, so there are jobs, like, you know, there are some jobs you can do until the day, you know, until you're 90. But maybe not being the president of a professional sports organization is one of them. Or the president of other things, too. I would say also. I do feel that. I do feel that. Yeah, I think you get to a certain age.

Yeah, there are jobs you don't necessarily have to do. Man, the guy is going on vacation. He's going on like Mark Murphy. He's going out with a bang. This is fantastic. I don't even want to interrupt this. This is like the most political is that because I've already done. That is, that could be applied to politics, but that, that's uniform across the board.

Although that said, like, you know, Warren Buffett, he's still sharp at his age, so he's rolling along. Okay. Who should have known who's going to come back to Buffett? All right. Dennis, I thought the most interesting proposal in terms of something that I could be convinced should actually be enforced was the Lions proposal. no automatic first downs on defensive holding or legal contact. Any unintended consequences we're not seeing? What did you think of that one?

Yeah, before we get into whether it's a good idea, my mind immediately went to, can we play the end of Super Bowl 57 again with this rule? The James Bradbury holding call on 38, right? So that would make it 3535, Chiefs ball, third and three at the Eagles 10, with 148 left. what happens if that game starts right there and then I was just like who am I getting like

Gannon's going to stop a three yard gain on the next play they would have gotten the first down anyway but that's a good example of where that rule would have been good in a situation where the call was controversial right like you're giving the referee way too much power there like that basically ended the game whereas if it wasn't an automatic first down it wouldn't have ended the game it's just one situation

I think I like I think I like the idea I like the idea in principle right? I strongly dislike when a team gets a cheap first down on like an illegal contact that's often like away from the ball like on like a third and 17 right like that's always kind of annoying

but I also don't want Zach made the point that the lions were flagged a lot for past interference in holding last year I don't want teams I don't want defensive backs to start being coached to hold guys on purpose right when it's third and long like every time they think they're about to get beat

like you wouldn't want that either so it's a treat trade off, I think maybe it would be a good compromise to at least make it a 10 yard penalty if you're going to not make it a first down because then it would only matter that it's not a first down if it's longer than 10 yards to go. Anytime it's like less than 10 yards to go, it would still be a first down. So you'd be less likely to have scenarios where teams were like intentionally holding or whatever. So I'm not sure. I don't really know where I stand on it. I think in general, the rule's not optimal.

If the rule's not optimal right now, I think I would change it. But maybe if you just kept it at five yards and no first down, then like every third and 12, you're going to get like intentional, you know, intentional holding and stuff. I'm not, I'm not exactly. I wonder if there is, I like it more than I don't like it. I wonder for those purposes, if there should be a distinction between the two, where defensive holding feels more purposeful.

Between illegal contact and whereas, whereas illegal contact seems a little bit more unintentional. maybe not yeah this is anecdotal but when I watch a game I most annoyed when it's away from the ball like when it's not even like to the to the side of the field where the quarterback was looking and they call illegal contact I think that that should be like a different penalty than when it's like illegal contact against the guy who like actually got targeted and it's not pass interference on like essentially a technicality that like the ball hadn't been thrown yet but clearly that's where the ball was going I know that's hard to litigate live right but I do think there, this is to your,

the two penalties would be different and also maybe there should be a difference on like whether it's the targeted player or not if you could somehow manage to. I think I'm in on 10 yards, no automatic first time. I like that. So how about this brinkled to it? And correct me if I'm wrong, but most defensive holdings have been early in the route, correct? Is that fair to say as opposed to the top of the route? Well, yeah, because then it becomes, once the ball is thrown already, it's possible

So what if it's a spot foul? And the spot foul, if the spot produces a first down, so be it, the spot doesn't. So you get the ball where the holding occurred. So if the holding was three yards into the play, you get to do the downover again, three yards into the play. Then I feel like you get into, okay, it's third. Then you definitely do it on. Let's just press. And if he gets behind me, I'm just going to hold.

Valid point. Right. Right. If it's like third and 13, like if you grab the guy after two yards, it's just going to be third and 11. You know what I mean? Like that's right. That's not an awful penalty for that. That's a good point.

Okay. Are there any defensive penalties that are 10 yards? It feels like it's all five or 15. Yeah. But they're all five. There must be something that's true. I can't think of. I was thinking about the question you asked the other day, Zach, when I said I think that

defensive players should get credit for sacks on intentional grounding, but not wide receivers on pass interference. And I think the distinction is the intentionality. Intentional grounding is by definition intentional. You are, like, you are, it should be a sack, whereas pass interference is, it could be accidental. It's usually not on purpose. That's fair.

And sometimes it's like, and sometimes it's like not a ball the guy would have actually caught, right? Like, so you'd be getting a lot of cheap yards on, on some of those. So your 10-yard penalty on defense, this applies to defense or offense, but defensive member could get it, is tripping. Oh, okay. Bring tripping back. We don't see enough tripping. Yeah, not enough tripping dolls, definitely. A super chat from Danilo, who says, do you guys think that someday they will make a legal contact defensive holding penalty reviewable?

God, I hope not. Yeah. No, we already went for that whole phone with the Sean Beaton thing. I'm all for the Sky Judge doing more things. Like when it's just blatantly wrong, I think the Sky Judge should be able to like immediately tell the referee, know that was wrong, pick it up right now, like for anything. But reviewable makes it sound like you're going through a process that's going to take time, right?

Like I think as long as it's not taking time, if the SkyJep sees the replay and says like, wait, no, you actually didn't touch the guy at all, like pick that flag up, that should be fine. I also don't think we need to really know about it. Like, why he picked it up? You know what I mean? Like, it's just like they picked it up,

probably because the sky judge, like, fixed it and then move on. I am all for that, but I don't think that the review process where the referee walks over and looks at a screen and stuff. Like, honestly, I don't think that should ever happen. Like, why does the ref have to be the one who watches the screen? Like, all that is is, like, a way to make the ref, like, not as embarrassed of being corrected by somebody else,

but, like, it takes so much time that I think that that, the sky judge should just be given more power in general. We also have another super chat from Claire, if I can find it, who says, Peckness migrate, a beau soliloquy, a Deniz rant, and Z.B. scolding the giants. It feels like this is one for the sickos to answer, not for us to answer. We're all biased. I will migrate Z.B. Holt and giants.

There were squires, scolding the giants. I don't want that to be a thing that I do. Why? They deserve it. Well, in cases, yeah, but I don't want to be known as scolding the Giants. But I think that the moves that they've made this year earned scolding. I saw Jordan Renan, my friend Jordan Renan from ESPN, covers the Giants, say that the Giants were offered a fifth-round pick for Azizzo Jollari at the deadline. And they turned it down because Kavanaugh-Dibado was dealing with the injury. And Azizzer-R-Larri went on.

And they were what? They had two wins at the time? I think it was. Two and five, maybe. Yeah. So, well, I mean, it still doesn't add up at all. Smitty says, don't worry about it. You're not going to be known for, for scolding the giants.

You're going to be known for your avid stance against old people. My poor wife, Emily, nested the Denny's rent. I don't know if she knew that that's what she was doing. But that's what she lives with. In effect, there you go. All right. Time for a quick break. and then we'll come back with some more thoughts.

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Absolutely. And in fact, it's almost identical to what the Lions. proposed that I had been proposing in the past. I think we even talked about it on the show this season when we were talking about how the Lions and the Vikings, one of them was going to drop to the five. I definitely agree. First of all, I mean, for those who don't know, the proposal was that division winners should still make the playoffs, but not be awarded one of the top four seats automatically. And their proposal even included that the first tiebreaker would be whether you won your division. So two teams that are tied. If one won the division,

and one didn't, even if the one that didn't beat the other one hit to head, right? They would go to the division winner. So I like this and it's, it's, I think it's exactly what I said I would do when you asked about this on the show back in November or whatever. There are a bunch of reasons for this. Some of them are kind of obvious. I'll talk about the, maybe like, like some obvious, some not so obvious reasons why I like it. One is the side effect on other teams, right? Like, you're trying to reward winning the division and making division significant. But look at this last season, right?

The Eagles won the NFC East. The commanders didn't, right? It's the same division, two teams. One team won the division, the other didn't. And look at the teams that those two teams played in the first round of the playoffs. Like the Eagles had to play the 12 and five Packers, who a lot of people thought was like the third best team in the conference. The commanders got to play the Tampa Bay Buccaneers,

who were 10 and 7 and clearly worse. So the structure is supposed to reward division winners, and it rewarded Tampa Bay, like a bad division winner. with a home game and all that. But it hurt like an actual good division winner in the Eagles. Like to play like a seven seed that shouldn't have been a seven seed, right? So that structure can hurt the division winners who actually were better. Like that distortion of the standings, like distorts the in a way,

distorts everything in a way that's not worth the intention of the rule, in my opinion. The other thing it does is it makes it possible that the best two teams in the conference could play each other in the second round, right, like the way it is now. Whereas you see that by record, that couldn't happen. The other thing, and this is one that I've talked about before in the past, that's maybe not discussed enough, is that they've built a wall in the standings between the four seed and the five seed, right, where the division winners are above the wall and the non-division winners are below it. That cuts out competition for the four seed. Now, I'm old enough to remember when there were only three divisions, and that wall was between the three-seed and the four-seed. And that didn't matter as much.

like the four seed is the last seed that gets a home game in the playoffs. And so by by making a wall between the four and the five seed, you're actually like stopping a potential competition for a playoff home game by just automatically giving it to the team that's like the worst division winner. And we saw this season like Sean McVeigh, right? He flat out said he doesn't care if he's the three seed or the four seed. He rested all of his players in week 18, fell to the four seed when he could have had the three seed. coaches have shown before that they don't care if they're three or four.

Would Sean McVeigh be able to do that if it was a matter of dropping from the four to the five? Or if it were like losing a home game, like would ownership be happy with that? You know what I mean? So I think that you would have fewer teams resting starters and more meaningful games if it meant that you actually had to earn the four seed by being the fourth best team instead of just being the worst division owner. The Houston Texans last year. They knew they were going to be the four seed with like three weeks left in the season,

basically, right? Like the division was locked up. They weren't close to being as good as the other division winners. And so they had nothing to play for the last two or three weeks, right? That distorts standings in other ways, too, because now you're resting starters against teams that might actually be playing for something. So I think building a wall, like at exactly a point in the standings where there would normally be an interesting competition makes the end of the regular season worse as well. So that's something that I would. That's the good.

That's the right argument to make in the room to the owners. For sure, because the owners don't. one meaningless games at the end of the year, right? Like, that's not good for, that's not good for the league. And, you know, we've, obviously I have a lot of opinions about playoff scenarios and week 18 scheduling and all those things. And one of the biggest issues with, with that week is that so many teams are resting guys, right?

So if you, if you can limit, if you can limit that in any way, and this would, this would help limit that, then that would be a good thing. Okay. Well said. Do you care at all about the proposal to allow teams to, prepare the K balls a day early. I was going to ask you guys about this one because teams are allowed to prepare their regular offense like balls before the game famously deflate gate, right?

And I've always found that to be bizarre. Like is there any other sport where the teams show up with like their own balls to the competition like it is weird to me that they're allowed to that they're that they're allowed to do that like it seems weird to me that the flight gate was even a possibility like that they don't just like the league doesn't just bring balls. to the game. Yeah. It's because like a new,

and I'll defer to bow on this, he's got a better arm than I do. You don't have to defer everything to me. You can speak. No, no. A new football from my understanding is much harder to throw. Slicker. Yeah, it's slicker. It's harder to grip.

And so it's the same way like, you know, a pitcher. He's not trying to throw a spitball, but he's just trying to get like a, a grip on a ball. It's a tack on that bad boy. Yeah. So a football fresh out of the bag, if you will, is hard for the quarterback. It's my understanding. And so it's to allow the quarterbacks to be able to throw the ball.

It's not that they treat the ball. It's weird that they let the team treat the ball. Like it'd be one thing if like the league had a system through which they like treated the ball before the game. So it wasn't like out of the box. It's weird that like each team is allowed to do it the way that they that they want. And this proposal kind of leads to, like, the way I read it, it's like, oh, so they're trying to, like, make cheating on field goals legal. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, isn't that what happened?

Like, it's like, if you let the teams bring their own kicking balls, suddenly there'd be all kinds of controversy about, like, oh, suspicious how, like, you know, whatever team's kicker is suddenly kicking it, like, four yards further than he was last year, right? Like, I feel like it'll turn into, like, you know, did they juice the balls in baseball? type of thing. Yeah, one thing I... It doesn't seem like a door to open. I've heard that K-balls make teams less to act to fake a field goal or a punt

because they're much harder to throw and to handle. So you're saying they would have like K-balls that weren't really K-balls for fake field goals, maybe. No, no, I'm saying like if you have the ability a soccer in a ball, then

yeah, they could be more active. to run a fake in those situations. And they could have a different ball for the faked and they do for the game, which makes me think like this shouldn't be allowed to happen. It seems like the ball should just be the ball. But I don't know. This is not a big deal.

I was more curious what you guys thought on this one than having a strong opinion. Okay. Let's get to the fake rules that have not been proposed by the league. What did you think of Zach's no inactives? Yeah, I understand the intention of this one. This is one where my like game theory

like mechanism design brain, like immediately like like kind of jumps in. And it's like I get that like things have changed. And it seems like inactives are an archaic idea. But inactives are designed to prevent teams from having an advantage and the number of players active on game day, right? That's what was the initial intention. My concern is that if you get rid of inactives,

it's going to make it so that every slightly injured player is going to be like put on I are, right? Or just flat out cut by the team if they're a marginal player. And that would lead to, so that they can still have a full game day roster, right? So that would lead to more players hiding injuries, right, making it a safety issue. You mentioned Zach, a way to fix this would be to have unlimited practice squad elevations every time a player's injured, like just let a practice squad player replace them. Yeah. That to me sounded equivalent to just expanding the roster, right? Like just making the roster bigger and you still have inactive's then. You just don't call them in actives. You call them the practice squad. Like, you know what I mean? Like, so I didn't understand

exactly what the difference was. I think at the end of the day, when you look at the big picture, if you want the number of active players on the two teams to be the same on game day, there's no way to do it without forcing healthy players to be inactive, right? You can't make the number of actual injuries be the same. So you have to force active healthy players not to play, whether you call them practice squad players or regular roster players, I think is like some antics. Like at the end of the day, you're still forcing healthy players not to play. Don't you think?

Well, I would like to expand the rosters, but I understand, like, I'm not, I want everyone to get paid, but I understand intellectually that if you, you know, the minimum salary relative to the practice squad salary, it's like 4x, right? So that, now if you're getting elevated, you get the, the active player minimum salary for that game, but the owners aren't going to sign off on just paying, you know, 10 more players or eight more players, active player salaries. So the elevation is a way around that. But I hear your point. Yeah, they've already found a way to expand the game day roster a decent amount. I mean, just what, 15 years ago or so, it was 45 players would rest on game day. And now it's

already up to 49 if you include the third quarterback. So that's already a big increase. The San Francisco 49ers would have made the Super Bowl. in 2023 had that rule been in place. You know, it's funny. That's how I remember that it's 49. Like Jimmy Kempski and I were going back and forth on this. Like he was like, it's 48. I was like, no, no, no, it's 49.

And the way I remember is it's the 49ers rule. Like the 49ers made it so that you were allowed to have a 49th player. Yeah. There you come. Kickoff touchbacks. You have some thoughts. Yeah, I mean, we talked about this before, so I'll be brief. The original language on kickoff touchbacks was that it was they were supposed to go to the 35,

if they went on the fly into the end zone. For whatever reason, at the last second, the owners changed it to the 30. And what we saw was most teams just kick it into the end zone. And so at the beginning of the year, especially, before it got cold and kickers stopped being able to do it. The narrative was like, this is boring. Like, what was the point of this? Just do the original thing and put it to 35, like, or even maybe even the 40. So that teams don't kick touchbacks.

And I think it would be somewhat exciting that we'd get more kickoff. returns so I don't that didn't get proposed I was surprised by that Zach is there some sort of timing where things can still get proposed at the owners meetings that weren't already proposed in this first round I feel like right happened like that before yes so there are and I don't know the exact that are up to the competition committee and there are certain rules that are up to the owners and I'm not sure what the distinction is to for the two okay there is To answer your question, there is another meeting in May with the competition committee where things are kind of pushed to that.

But I don't know if there's like bylaws, there's resolutions, there's rules. Yeah, so I need to look that up. I was wondering if it was supposed to only be for one year when they did it last year, right? So I was wondering if it's like an automatic meeting where they decide whether to keep it or change it in subway this year. So I really hope they still do change it to the 35. We're about to head to overtime on all phtly.com to finish the rest of this episode. Check it out there. All right.

Your last thing, Professor, your cause-seleb is why can't, why do you have to decline penalties in the first place? It is so stupid. Like, I don't think that anyone ever thinks about this because everyone was born into this and they just think it's normal. It's kind of like free throws and basketball, possibly the least entertaining thing in the world. And yet people think it's just like a normal thing that the game just stops for like a minute for one guy. to shoot two shots. Like, it is so dumb and should clearly not exist. The version of that in the NFL for me is penalties being declined.

Like, why do you have to decline a penalty? If the offense held and you still got like a tackle for loss for three yards, despite the fact that they were holding you, why do you have to choose between your good play and the penalty? You know, I remember there was a play where I think it was a 15-yard penalty on the offense and Fletcher Cox got a sack on the play, but it was a penalty like during the play. And the Eagles took the penalty.

And so it actually like took a sack away from Fletcher Cox. And he was like very upset. He was very upset after the game. Like he was like, yeah, that stuff matters. Like I'm very mad about that. Like if you let and one happen, I mean, I know it just bad mouth basketball, but basketball does that part right at least. If you get fouled and you make a shot.

Okay, so there's one to keep. The only one to keep. You get the shot and you also get reward, maybe not with a free throw, maybe you should just get the ball back or something, but you get to keep both the result of the play and the penalty on the other team. I can't think of a single penalty in football where that would not be a better rule than the current one. Like if they did something to you and you still made a good play, you should get the yardage and the play. Like if the guy held you and you still caught the ball, you should get five yards plus the catch. Like, why not, right? and the team that was the victim of the penalty should get a choice of whether they want to keep the result of the play or not

but they shouldn't have to choose whether they want the penalty or not the penalties should just be automatic like yeah you get the penalty do you now also want the play that should be the choice so what about when the team commits two penalties on the same play should you get both of them you mean right or do you just get the one that's more penal yeah yeah I don't know I'm I mean, I'd have to think about that. You could get some crazy stuff where you're getting like 30 yards or something, right? Yeah, that doesn't seem worth it. Yeah.

That doesn't seem. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think that like, because in the Fletcher Cox example, it's actually taking away like a statistic from a player who made a real play. And in general, like it's taking away positive plays made by the team. Like it makes the rest of the play not matter. Right. Like, and I don't think that that should ever be the case.

I think that should be thought about more and like maybe someone else could come up with examples where it wouldn't be a good idea, but there are definitely at least most penalties. It would be better to let the penalty always stand and let the team just choose whether the play counts, not literally like choose between the two. Offense and defense. Like I just don't see why you have to decline a penalty just because you like made a good play. It seems like weird to me. Okay. Zach, you want to tell us where you're headed off to next week?

Excuse me. Yeah, I'm heading out of town with my family, my entire extended family, my aunts, uncles, cousins, we're going, my grandparents, in particular.

It's very exciting. Yeah. And so going away and, it's going to be I'm trying I'm unplugging a bit and that totally but no I'm looking forward to

man everybody in your life is going to be there think of all the work you could get done if you weren't everybody was there I'm just I'm just going to well I'll say this I have to ask Zai what yeah yeah no I was just going to ask

how many hours are you planning to work a day during this so I was at dinner of my brother's other night and they're like we get it, you have to work. You don't need to tell us, okay? And so so actually, Emily was like, you said up to your brothers.

Yeah. Emily was like, Emily was like, you can work when you wake up in the morning, you can work before you go to bed, but like no one wants to hear that you have work to do when you're away. So I will be, I won't be like blatant about it, but there are certain things I need to get done. I'm on a tight time frame.

for something. So trying to get it accomplished and hopefully I don't forget about the Brandon Graham advice that you said you were going to follow. Oh, I'm definitely going to be present. Trust me, because yeah, I promise you I I'm really good about like I, you know, I, Emily is the most amazing mom in the world. Okay. The most amazing. Well, I mean, I mean, Emily and Rachel R too, right, but from my, I'm going to know. I'm biased. I'm biased. I'm biased. Emily, my wife is an amazing mother. But when it comes to, like, experience type things,

I probably take the lead with that stuff. You know, if you're going to, like, we're going to the Kennedy Space Center one day. Yeah, I'm talking about you. Sorry. And. Oh, here's her burning. Yeah.

She heard the butt. She heard Emily is the most amazing mom, but. Yeah. So no. So if we're going on, like, a water slide. Like, you know, I'm the one who's climbing up those stairs to go on the water slides with the kids, right? Like, that's more of the stuff that I will do. If it comes to, like, making sure that, like, they're sufficiently packed and fed and Emily takes the lead there.

But when it comes to, like, any experience type thing, I'm more, I'm more than one who steps into that spot. Okay. Yeah. I like you went to the side for confirmation on that. That was okay. She didn't hear we talk about her. Speaking of that, I want to give you one last chance here before we leave, Danes. Brandon Graham.

Brandon Graham retires. I know you think very fondly of the longest tenured eagle. What are your parting thoughts on his career? Yeah, I've always loved Brandon Graham. Like even before, you know, he became like a hero or whatever, he was one of my favorite player, just the way he played. and like I know you always talk about like how he stops the run plays from the backside and stuff like just like how predictable and how awesome it is when he does that. Yeah, I'm really happy for him. I think it's better that he retired on top, I think, than if he had kept playing.

So I wasn't sad when I heard the announcement. But when I tried to rank like my favorite players ever, it's hard and it's really hard to avoid recency bias, I think. but I was like, yeah, like, BG's got to be top three for me. And I wasn't exactly sure who the other two were, honestly. So, yeah, it's awesome that he got to play here the whole time, win two Super Bowls, and it's just crazy, right? Be such a big part of one of them and be such a big part of this season, too. I mean, we talk on the show a lot about how awesome he was.

like um so yeah it was just great um to think about like how like kind of fun watching his whole career was like and how kind of perfect uh he is as a kind of character in eagles history right like with how positive he is and all those things um yeah it was it was just awesome so it's rare like it's easy for me now at the age i am to like look at players and be like they're much younger than me like they don't have much life experience. There's not much I can learn from that, right? But when BG says certain things, I'm always like, yeah, like,

that's a really good philosophy to take about that. Like, it's something that I could actually, like, use in my life. The thing that Zach was sharing about the, like, being present when, you know, you're doing something with your kids is one example of that. Just how positive he is, like, how he's, we joke about how he would, like, agree with anything you say and just, like, laugh.

But, like, that's such a good starting point. right to how to interact with people like when you think about it like I think one of the things that I know I do in my life that I wish I didn't do as much is like my first instinct is to be like no you're wrong like it's actually like this right when it would be such a better starting point to think like yeah like that has some validity let me focus on the positive thing of what you said and then you know and I and I don't mean to like give BG credit for something you didn't say you never said that right but like the way he acts is such an embodiment of that way of doing things. Like you could tell him the most ridiculous thing. He's yes ending. That's what he's doing. Yeah, you like ha ha ha. Yeah, like you know it. And then if he disagrees, like he'll eventually, he'll eventually make it clear that he doesn't fully agree. Right. He'll he'll say the things actually thinking eventually. So I think that that would be, I think a lot of interactions in life would be like more more pleasant if people have that, had that approach. I might see him tonight. I'll let him know if you said that.

Yeah, please do. Yeah. I've biked by BG because he had something at like the casino near the stadium, the year he was on IR the whole year. So I would bike by him just as he was walking in there, but I've never actually talked to him. So, yeah, I'd love to meet him sometime, but I would, yeah, say hi for me. Zach just dropping that he's going to be hanging out with BG later.

No, I mean, we already know. Yeah, Zach's good. BG skater in the same football. Yeah, it's Friday night flight football. So yeah. Did the run to Connor Barwin the other day, which was fun. I think his son has baseball practice at the same time as I've run on Mondays. So that was got.

No. Professor, is it going to be difficult for you to commute to your job and this show moving forward since obviously you have to move to Jacksonville? We were talking about this. I told that run, I was like Fred Johnson left. And he was like, he was like, he was like, that's not that big of a deal.

And I was like, what? Like, what kind of parenting have I been doing that everyone thinks it's just fine? The second most important male figure in his life. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, who am I going to run into now? Like, who's going to be the new Fred Johnson where I just see him all the time? Yeah. No, it's definitely sad. I love the way. what a big part of like the social media stuff he was, like how funny he was on those.

Yeah, can I miss him for sure. All right, Zach, last thing for you since you're on the politics heater, Super Chad from Chase Daniel Plainview, who says, is it odd that JJ Arthaga Whiteside's former boss has not faced serious consequences after her years of torture advocacy during the Iraq war? Yeah, I'm staying away from that one. I mean, I'm not informed enough to know. She's not old enough for you to bag on her yet.

No, I'm familiar. I'm not ignorant. I'm familiar with what's being asked here, but not to the degree that I'm prepared to give the type of answer that this question justifies. Okay, fair enough. All right, good stuff, everybody. That'll do it for this episode and this week of the PHY Eagles podcast.

We're back next week. Zach may be gone, but we've got to roll on. Nevertheless, I'll be listening. I'll be listening. I can't wait. You know, it's going to be. We're aware. Please don't listen live.

I won't, I won't be listening live, but I will be, I will be listening. Don't you have other, you have other things to do? Yes, I have a lot of other things to do, but I take a walk every day and I listen. Over under a number of times, Zach is in the chat next week. I won't be in the chat. I'm tied up during the days. So two o'clock won't work, but yeah. Okay.

Well, we have some exciting shows. including, I believe, the great E.J. Smith coming on the show on Monday. So we'll start things off that way. So we're looking forward to that. For all of us here at P.H.O, I would thank you for listening and watching this week. We will talk to you on Monday. And as always, we love you.