PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Scot Loeffler new Philadelphia Eagles QB coach as Jalen Hurts aims to make MVP-level leap

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

Nick Sirianni appears to have completed the backfilling of Kellen Moore and Doug Nussmeier’s departures with the hiring of Bowling Green head coach Scot Loeffler as Jalen Hurts and Tanner McKee’s new position coach. What kind of coach are the Eagles getting in Loeffler?Zach Berman and Bo Wulf analyze the addition and play a spirited round of Tic-Zach-Bo with a focus on the free agents likely to land in Philadelphia and the big decisions ahead for Howie Roseman. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

to the P.HLY Eagles podcast on Friday afternoon. Well, Wolf, Zach Berman, pleased to join you. We've got a lot to talk about since we last spoke, Zach. As all the things are happening in Indianapolis, drips and drabs coming out, the Eagles have a new quarterbacks coach. They might have a new quarterback in the division. And we have plenty to talk about on a nice, rousing edition of Tick, Zach Bow. How you doing, my friend?

I'm doing well. Excited for the show. Great introduction. Hey, thanks, man. Okay. I'm doing well. I'm excited for the show. Great introduction.

All right. It's going to bring energy at the top. God forbid. You get, it was so stilted. You just so abrupt. You didn't, you know, there was no toss back. It was just. Okay.

So the news, the news, the Eagles, are adding Scott. Lephler as quarterbacks coach. Scott Leffler had been the quarterback, had been the head coach at Bowling Green. So Bowling Green made this announcement today that their head coach is leaving to go to the Philadelphia Eagles to be the quarterback's coach, an experienced coach, like someone who's,

in addition to being a head coach, has been a coordinator, quarterback coach for, you know, two plus decades, multiple college programs. A lot of college football fans know him from his time at Michigan. He played at Michigan. He was actually a grad assistant when Tom Brady was there, a close friend, worked his way up, was instrumental when Chad Henney became the freshman starting quarterback at Michigan. Scott Leffler received a lot of credit.

He was once like the hot name in coaching. And then the Rich Rodriguez comes in. Michigan kind of cleans house. He goes to Florida. He since bounces around Temple Boston College. He was at Virginia Tech at one point with Aaron Moorhead became the head coach, a president. Bowling Green has not been particularly successful as Bowling Green's head coach. And so leaves for a sick, you know, it's it's atypical that you see the head coach leaves become a position coach in the NFL.

You typically see head coach to coordinator, but he comes off for the kids on that team, don't you think? It's pretty late in the cycle. I imagine Scott Leffler felt like he was coaching for his job or was just kind of not enthused by the nature of college football. It's probably tough to be the Bowling Green coach right now and goes to a spot where now. Now, he's the quarterbacks coach for J-Wurts. So if you are of the opinion that the Eagles needed an outside voice or that the Eagles needed an experienced voice, Scott Leffler at least provides that.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we can say that definitively his offensive style is changing much here, but it's an interesting hire for sure. When you think of Bowling Green, who comes to mind, do you have a bowling green person in your head? Omar Jacobs. What about you? Omar Jacobs, interesting. I think I go Antonio Daniels. Okay.

Are you going basketball? There's not that many. Antonio Daniels on it. Carl Brooks, a recent. Okay. I don't have a remember those. Remember those Urban Meyer teams? And then I remember the Greg Brandon teams because I was the beat writer at UVA when they hired Greg Branden to be the offensive coordinator.

And then, of course, I think it seems quite a bit. Oral Hersheiser. Went to Bowling Green? I believe. so. Good pool. I know he went to Cherry Hill East. I did not know he went to Bowling Green.

Wow. There you go. Yeah, I mean, as far as a hire goes, who's just, you know, it's hard to say what he's going to bring to the table as a quarterback's coach. Nice to see that the Eagles made the rounds. This is the kind of, like, if they were casting a wide net, you know, without, without knowing enough about Scott Leffler to hire.

a college head coach as a quarterback's coach feels like on par with the kind of hire they would be looking to make, right, just in terms of gravitas. The Tom Brady thing, I think, is probably pretty silly, but it's the kind of thing that might matter to Jalen Hertz. Like, if you're thinking of a guy, like, who can come in out of nowhere as a February 28 hire and command some kind of attention from Jalen Hertz in the quarterback? room, like to tell him that it's a guy who worked with Tom Brady when he was in college, like knowing the things that Jalen Hertz cares about, it's the kind of thing that might matter just a little bit, don't you think? Maybe so. I think if anything else, it shows, you know, it's credibility in the room when you look,

you know, a Jalen Hertz grew up a big college football fan. Scott Leffler was Tim Tebow's offensive coordinator at Florida, right? But he's coached a lot of different types of quarterbacks. You know, Logan Thomas at Virginia Tech. But yeah, to your point, the Tom Brady thing's always kind of been attached to Scott Leffler's name. Scott Leffler was once like the hot college coaching candidate. And the Tom Brady thing was always attached to his, unto his name. So I imagine it gives credibility in the room.

I don't know how it affects, you know, how he coaches Jowin. but there is a look this is not this is not like promoting your quality control coach to be the quarterbacks coach or Jalen Hertz this is someone who as I said has been around has been a head coach it's been an offensive coordinator so there is you know you can hear different people and you and I have been texting different people today who have different opinions on him but if you're of the opinion that like they they needed someone with some credibility Scott Leffler at least comes with the resume credibility. I can't tell you what he's like as a coach,

but he comes with the resume credibility that if you had just went with a quality, if you promoted a quality control coach or put an assistant quarterback's coach in there, that guy might not have the credibility in the room that Scott Leffler has. There's a very funny sentence or two sentences in that Bowling Green announcement about him. It says throughout his career, Leffler has coached eight quarterbacks. who went on to play in the NFL. Tom Brady, Tim Tebow, Brian Greasy, Chad Henney, Drew Henson,

John Navar, Logan Thomas, and Anthony Brown. Those eight quarterbacks have won a combined 10 Super Bowl championships. Yeah, yeah, that is a funny one. I thought the funny line in there was from his Temple Days, where it's like Bernard Pierce average. like the eighth best yards per carry in Temple history during this time. And I was like, that's really stretching it out, right? Yeah, I mean, I think with Scott Leffler, what you're getting more than anything else is experience.

That's the big draw. As if you thought this was an inexperience, if Kevin Betuel lacks the play calling experience, right? Parks Frazier doesn't have as much experience. And in Scott Leffler, you're getting someone like, like I said, who's been doing this since 2000 in terms of coaching as a full-time coach, even before that as a grad assistant working with Tom Brady. So I think there's the experience level is probably something that mattered to them here. Well, if you're trying to sell yourself on it, you know, you think about like just the

mental bandwidth that would come with being the head coach of a college football team and everything that you have to deal with and narrowing that box to, it's not a, it's not a, it's not easy job, but, you know, three or four players in the quarterback room and the things that, that they have to focus on. Obviously, you need to know everything that's going on with the offense. You're going to be part of game planning and all that stuff. But like to change that landscape of the things you have to worry about, you would think that you can get a lot out of that.

You're right. You're right. And that's important to note, too, because I think there tends to be a leap to like looking at his offenses and his offensive styles. he's not calling the plays here. He's not even installing the offense here, right? He's working with, obviously, Kevin Picotuo, Nick Siriani, and Parks Frazier and Jeff Stoutland and Jamal Singleton, and Aaron Moorhead and Jason Michael, right? Like, he's, he's a part of this group. But if you have someone who has different ideas, who's worked with everyone from Urban Meyer, you know, he's,

I was very successful at Florida at one point, okay? Yeah, because I mean, I'm not even going to say why. Not the kind of thing to borrow from. No, but point being that he's at exposure to different styles. He has worked for and with different coaches. They're saying the chances of one of the Eagles coaches kicking Jailen Hertz this year have risen significantly. It's not at all what I am saying. No, I'm just talking about exposure to different quarterbacks, exposure to different schemes.

He's called plays for a long time. Like there is experience that he brings to the room, but I'm not looking at this higher. Like he's bringing the Bowling Green offense. So like I saw a reference, you know, Harold Fanon Jr., who we'll talk about quite a bit in April, is a real good tight end. And I saw, you know, like speculation that maybe the Eagles will use the tight end more now. I would not take that leap. This is a quarterback's coach working with Jaywin Hertz, bringing experience with working with multiple quarterbacks to Jaywin Hertz.

Now, if you go on the other side, what would be your biggest red flags about this hire? Well, without knowing how he is as a coach, the biggest red flags, I would say, is probably like, you know, I tend to want the quarterbacks coach to be kind of more on the trajectory, you know, the trajectory. You're like the ascension, the ascending board of the next coach. Okay. Exactly. That tends to be more what I look for there. But the red flags without knowing who else they hire or I'm sorry, who else they interviewed. We know they interviewed a nunzi-o, Caponelli.

You can say the lack of pro experience. He's worked one year in the NFL with the Detroit Lions in 2008. Other than that, it's been pretty much all college. So it could be that But no look I'm I'm I'm intrigued I like that they cast They clearly cast a wide net

This is not This is not someone that like Nick Siriani Worked with in You know San Diego back in in 2016 Who he called up Like this is this is someone who has no crossover with Siriani has no crossover really With anyone on the staff

Other than Aaron Moorhead And And so it's bringing in someone who, yeah, I guess, yeah, the only red flag would be the lack of NFL experience, if anything else. That was not a particularly good Lions team. I see that in the chat. Yeah, that was not a particularly good Lions team. But, yeah, I think you're hiring experience more than anything else. I was reading a Q&A with him from 2019, I believe it was, with our former colleague, Nicole Lauerbeck. And you'll appreciate this.

he went from sleeping on his couch in the office to he took a job where he didn't even have a couch anymore. He just slept on the floor. And I was, he was like this badge of honor. So, you know. All right. I'm out. That had to come up. That's all Siriani need to hear too.

Siriani's, you know, because Siriani talks about like the hard work, the hard work. And here is that. He's like, you're hired, man. Yeah. I mean, I think you probably do have to worry a little bit that he's not Italian enough. just by name. Like that's, you know, you do have to worry about that. I also, I mean, let's be, let's be fair here.

Scott with one T? That's the analysis only you're providing. You have an issue with that? I do, yeah. I mean, you know, a football coach with low T, I think is probably a red, is probably a red flag. Were you setting up the punchline there? That was pretty good. No, but I mean, this is not a one true Scotsman situation, you know, he's, he's,

Who's your favorite Scott with 1T? Scotland. I don't know. I mean, SCOT has a first name. That's that that's not, you're coaching the position where judgment is the most important thing. I don't know. Wasn't there? I think Scott Pollard was Scott with one team.

Am I right about that? Was he? I don't think so. Am I wrong about that? I feel like Pollard was a two team man. There was a pitcher at Tennessee one time. You're right about Scott Pollard. I apologize.

Yeah. A pitcher at Tennessee one time. I remember Scott Drucker. He was one T, but I am not the foremost expert on the one T. So I get to tell you. You got Pollard. That's big. I do remember Scott Pollard.

As I said, I'm better speller than I am pronouncer. So I do know spellings of names. Player 1 in the chat says the number of T's in his name ain't up to him. It's like, that is true. Although, I mean, you could change it. But I mean, how do you feel about Leffler? How do I feel about Leffler? I, you know, I'm, I'm into like the, the real analysis, not as much the name analysis,

but I'll defer to any analysis. What do you mean? This is real analysis. How do I feel about Leffler? I have no opinion on his last name. I don't. There's, I have no opinion. What last name?

It's not vague. It's real. What last name would be better for you? What last thing would? give you more confidence. Arruzioni. Oh, okay. Yeah, like the captain of the U.S. national team, yes.

All right. Okay. So the Eagles. He ran well yesterday. He tested well yesterday. My guys tested well yesterday. Yes. Okay.

So the Eagles have filled their quarterbacks coach. We think that they have filled the assistant offensive line coach with Greg Austin, the L.H. Parks report that by your understanding from Nick Siriani, that means there's like one spot left to fill, maybe a defensive quality control guy? No, I think actually my guess is that is when Nick, when I heard Nick speak the other day about quarterback's coach and two quality control, I don't think he was considering off assistant offensive line. I imagine assistant offensive lines, like full-time staff member.

Okay. So my guess is two quality control coaches, two quality control coaches. Entry level guys. Yes. And as I said to you, weirdly one of the good things about the way the Eagles have built this staff. under Nick Siriani is that they don't have any real coaches old enough that they're forced to hire their sons as quality control coaches. So they're in a good position to bring in quality candidates there. Sure. Yeah. I mean, there are fewer coaches with adult age children.

You know, Jeff Stoutland would probably be the only one there. And Jake's doing just fine on golf Instagram. He's killing it right now. No doubt about it. Yeah. All right. And in real estate as well, by the way. I don't want to limit it to golf. Yeah.

News elsewhere in the division, sack, as Matthew Stafford, after some heavy flirtation with the classy New York football giants is headed back to the Los Angeles Rams. A two-fold question. And this also comes on the heels of Diana Racini reporting that the giants are very heavily considering bringing in Mr. Dolphin himself, Aaron Rogers. So two part question. One, are you worried about the Rams after they played the Eagles tougher in the playoffs than any other team? Would you put them at the top of NFC contenders for the Eagles? And two, how much would you worry about Mr. Anti-Vax joining the division? Yeah, so I'm going to tackle the second one first because I feel strongly about this.

I don't I really dislike strongly dislike what the New York Giants are doing right now and I think it is irresponsible I might be idealistic but I think when you when when you are the general manager of a club you you must be the steward of the franchise you have a responsibility to the franchise and to the fan base to act in the best interest of the franchise and the fan base not in your own job security and I think I thought the pursuit of Matthew Stafford, you can potentially rationalize that. You get two, three years out of it. Any pursuit of Aaron Rogers would be done, would be a brazen attempt at simply trying to make, trying to preserve a job. And that to me is like if, if I was John Mara and that came across my desk, I would be like flabbergasted by this suggestion that your rationales.

for not signing Sequin Barclay is you're not, is, is they weren't at the stage to do so. Okay, fine. You can, you can at least sell me on that. I mean, I agree. If you're a, um, a middling team or a rebuilding team, you don't need to spend $13 million on a running back, right? If you're had, but, but then you can't come to me and say, you had this one draft class with Tyrone Tracy and Malik neighbors and now you're ready to, got, to bring in the 40-year-old

quarterback. all that's doing to me is job preservation. And that is irresponsible. If you are, and this other idea that they could pivot to trading up with the Tennessee, like make up your mind. You're either going for the number one pick or you're signing the 40-year-old quarterback. But no. So if you're going to sign any type of quarter, you can sell me on Sam Darnold or Justin Fields.

or like you can sell me on that part. You know, if you wanted to sign the guy in his 20s, if you were going for the bridge quarterback, right, and you're going for, I don't know, you know, Kirk Cousins or, you know, Kirk Cousins isn't going to cost you any, you know, let's say in theory the Falcons cut Kirk Cousins, I don't know why they would hold on to them. But it's not going to cost you anything.

You can draft a young quarterback. You have a veteran here who, like, can allow you to take your time. what does signing Aaron Rogers do for the New York Giants other than potentially get you to a wild card spot this year and allow the GM and the head coach to keep his job? To me, it is irresponsible roster management. The chat is just a Twitter with this performance out of you. Shea says this is the Zach that Emily fell in love with.

I haven't heard you. I haven't heard you attack a football decision-making process like this, maybe ever. Well, that's not, no, I'm very clear on, I don't like in general when someone operates in their own self-interest when their responsibility is to the team, right? I get it for the players, right? Like, like clearly what Matthew Stafford was doing with this whole trade thing was just trying to get a better deal out of the Los Angeles and its Rams. I get like that's that's the business. You know, the Rams are saying you're valued at X. Stafford's saying, all right, let me see what my market is.

The Giants and the Raiders are interested in him. Jimmy Sexton does that part of the job. He comes back to the Rams. They have this meeting. He says, I can get X at these other places. They say, okay, we'll pay you Y or we'll pay you X, whatever it is. Look, that's Matthew Stafford doing his job. When you're the general manager of the team, it's your responsibility to, now I, I, I,

know the pushback could be you have to try to maximize winning every year. But signing Aaron Rogers, if you're the Pittsburgh Steelers, I have no issue signing Aaron Rogers in the sense that you're pretty far down. You're not going to get your quarterback where you are in the draft. You have some decent talent on your team. You need better quarterback play. It allows you, you know, essentially, if you're just cycling from Russell Wilson, Aaron Rogers, you can have an issue with that. But I don't view the New York Giants as a roster that is Aaron Rogers away from being competitive from being a Super Bowl contender. I see them as Aaron Rogers away from maybe pushing to make the wildcard, and that's not

doing anything other than keeping your job. A few things. One, I do think it's, I think, I think buried in your, in your burial of Joe Shane there was maybe the reason behind this, which is that you are still miffed on behalf of your boy, Seguan Barclay. but this is this is down the road defense of sayquan for letting sequin go when in reality like that decision last offseason was not the decision not the reason that joe Shane should have been fired it was actually the decision the offseason before

to sign daniel jones and franchise seacquan barclay when you could have done the reverse and been in a much better situation and people were saying at the time that that would have been the better thing to do um now listen we all watch over and over on the off-season hard knocks last off-season to know that we probably don't need to give them a lot of credit for some big operation here that did not seem like the best and the brightest. However, I do think, like, if we're just to be a little bit fair, if we're attacking, make up your mind between Aaron Rogers or trading up to the one seed, part of the silly season of right now is like they do have to explore what their options are at core. I mean, it's reasonable for them to at least discuss Aaron Rogers as a possibility. If they sign him or, you know, trade some pittance for him, then yes, that would be ridiculous. I also think that it's not just Joe Shane here as you're talking about trying to keep their jobs.

I mean, I think Brian Davel is a real part of this as well, right? And you hear that like, well, he wants to, he wants to prove what his offense can be, like that he has bona fides as a play. caller. And they might say, like, you know, we don't, we can't get a quality evaluation of just how good Malik Neighbors is and all these other guys unless we have a competent quarterback at the position. That is true, but also, you know, the deal with the devil that you have to make to bring in Aaron Rogers as opposed to, you know, Jacoby Prossette or whoever it is, is like, it's probably not worth it and is, and it's not serious, nor classy. I mean, I'll, I'll stay away from the.

classy part of it. Look, Aaron Rogers, you can, you can talk yourself into like a, you know, a guy who's been an MVP quarterback. I just don't see. I just don't see how that that fits with the roster that they have. Sure. You know, that's so if if I were the Giants, I would either go trade for a quarterback. And look, if you want to talk about self, if you want to talk about self preservation, trading future picks for a quarterback, it's like, if it doesn't work, those aren't your picks anyways for the GM, right? Or I would hedge my bet with, like I said, I like Justin Fields more than most. That's fine.

You don't have to go to that for Justin Fields. But again, like a Kirk Cousins type or a Russell Wilson type or someone who. Well, I don't think that a Kirk Cousin type is that different than Aaron Rogers type, to be fair. Oh, I do. I mean, Aaron Rogers, how many more years is Aaron Rogers going to play football? Well, yeah, but you're not signing Kirk Cousins to be your quarterback beyond this year either. I mean, Kirk Couss could in theory give you two, three years in that. Like, you're not signed, but also Kirk Cousins isn't costing you anything either because he has that guaranteed money from Falcons, right?

So. But wouldn't it be the same? I guess Rodgers. What's that? If they cut Rogers, would it be the same? Yeah, true, true. Look, I guess I need to reserve. The bottom line is, is this is good news for the Eagles.

Like, they remain in a division where at least one and usually between one and three teams are completely unsurious. And so it's a huge advantage that they have. All said. All right. A quick break to hear from our sponsors. And then we will get to some TZB on the other side. Tell you about our friends at Ace Hardware Home Services. Here's what they bring, because they bring a lot.

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Zach, I had a sicko approach me at Costco yesterday afternoon, and I appreciate that, as always. And his one question for me was, got to know, is Zach as nice in person as he is on the show? I said, he's even nicer. That actually warms my heart. Thank you. Thank you. That means a lot to me because that's a core foundation. That's something I feel very strongly about.

It's just like always treating people the right way. thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you. Um, question in that, oh, we have a super chat. Let's stick on the Giants very quickly. Uh, what do we got here? Oh, Madillo says, is there a book announcement coming or draft analysis? Sounds like the beginning of a ZB heater. People, people enjoy that you're, coming hard on the whole of the last two episodes. Um, thank you, I suppose. A book announcement regarding a book I'm reading or a book I'm writing. I missed that last week. Book I'm writing.

Look, I know I've been cryptic. I'm purposely cryptic here when the time is right to announce something. Perhaps I will announce something. I'm not at that juncture when I can do that yet. As far as draft analysis, yeah, there's a lot of that. There's a lot of free agency analysis. I'm excited for some of those work coming up here. But I got to say, my, the favorite, my, the favorite, my,

my favorite piece that I write every year. I've been doing it for five years now is if I were Howie Roseman, which once again, it's probably creeping out Howie Roseman that this is my favorite piece that I'm writing. But I do this each year, like how I would tackle the all season if I were Hallie Roseman. And that's going to come out next week. That's your favorite piece every year? My favorite piece of analysis that I write. Yeah, like I like, yeah, it's my favorite piece of analysis because I think that what I like about that,

if I'm being like honest is I think it it shows like insight on the team. It shows insight on the league. I really want to try to show that I know this league quite a bit. That's something I take pride in. And this is a chance for me to do it. There aren't as many pieces where I'm doing as much league-wide stuff. And like recognizing free agency, identifying free, you know, identifying specific free agents and range or trade targets, knowing kind of the way the league operates.

Yeah, I take pride in that piece. The parhams of the world. Well, that did not come to fruition. But, I mean, I do feel as I look back my piece from last year, I was pretty, I had a pretty good beat on, like, what the markets would be. I was wrong about how the Eagles would spend at running back. I did say if Seguan Barclays within, like, you were arranged. That's the type of player you should go after. But I mentioned Bryce Huffin there.

I was wrong about the player, but I was right about the target. The way they navigated, you know, I said they need to come out of the draft with a day two pick the following year, which they did. And then they ended up trading one for Jahan Dodson. Yeah, so I enjoy doing that piece. Can we do a little inside football here? Sure. When's that bad boy going up? So this is going to be a 25-step guide.

for Howie Roseman this year. Wow. Okay. Up from 15 last year. And honestly, it's one of those things where we'll kind of correspond it with the show schedule. So it could be as soon as Monday. It could be as late as the following Monday. It could be Friday next week.

It's the type of thing where we should, you know, I want it to, it doesn't have to be the same day that it, that we talk about it on the show. But I don't want it to be like it comes out on Monday and we talk about it on Friday. So it would kind of probably be the corresponding with the show. Do it for Monday if you want to make it for Monday. We can make that Monday show. Yeah, we can plan on that. Yeah, let's make it for a Monday show. Yeah.

Okay. We'll figure that out afterwards. Okay. All right, Tick, Zach, Bo. What do you got? Tick, Zach, Bo. Yeah. So for those who remember during the summer, this was a game we invented, where it is a grid, okay?

And X access, a Y access, okay? along the, let's say the Y access here, there's going to be free agency, draft, and Eagles roster. Along the X axis, there's would you rather convince me and predict the future. So this is just a vehicle for us to have these conversations, but I will leave this up to you. Which one do you want to go with? Free agency, draft, Eagles roster, would you rather convince me to predict the future? Now, well, you know, I'm going to leave that alone. Let's go.

Eagles roster. Would you rather? Eagles roster would you rather? Would you rather resign Isaiah Rogers or resign Kenny Gainwell? Now, obviously, it depends on the price. So give me basically a little bit above what their market turns out to be. Yes. Who would I prioritize?

Yes. Who would you prioritize? Would you prioritize? the number two running back in the event that Saquan goes down or would you prioritize the cornerback who could kind of compete with Keely Ringo. In both cases, you have a fourth round pick from recent years. Keely Ringo from two years ago, a cornerback.

Will Shipley last year at running back. So that's kind of the impetus of it. You're looking similar age profile. You have more depth of corner, but you play two guys. You have less depth at running back, but you have one established. guy. Kenny Gainwell has more special teams value. So that's

that's kind of outlining it. Who would you go with at market price? Yeah, this is pretty clearly Isaiah Rogers to me. It depends. I think he's more likely. It's possible that he gets a real offer somewhere. There is also some confusion about what his status is. He's listed as an RFA.

It doesn't look like he should be an RFA. It looks like he should be a free agent. Yeah. But assuming that he's not going for starting corner money, which it's possible somebody views him as. And he certainly played very well when he was called upon this season. Yeah, I think that is the right level of investment they should make at cornerback, knowing that you have Ringo, Dijin, and Quignon Mitchell on rookie contracts. You would feel pretty good about that group, assuming Slay moves on with those four guys.

you know, you could do a little bit better, I guess. But to me, that one is kind of a no-brainer. With Gainwell, you know, I don't like him as much as Nick Siriani does, but I like him quite a bit. But that's one where, like, if we're a month into free agency and he hasn't signed yet, we're happy to have him back. But I don't think you're prioritizing bringing Kenny Gainwell back. I think you could, whether that is wait and see what happens in the draft,

and it's another fourth or fifth or sixth round pick that you had to compete with Will Shipley, or you don't come out of the draft with a running back, and there's somebody still available who's a veteran, or you believe in Sweet, Sweet Lou, I think you're feeling pretty good about the running back position without Kenny Gainwell. And I don't really think that that one's particularly close. What about you? Yeah, I mean, Rogers is the way I would want to go.

But when I was thinking about this question, And one of the things I was wondering was, would you rather have an easier path to playing time for Kili Ringo or for Will Shepley? Yeah, but I think it's less about the path to playing time and more about the what if they fall. What if they aren't up to the moment? And would I rather have a safe backboard for Kili Ringo or a safe backboard for Will Shepley? It's definitely Kili Ringo. But don't you think? I mean, you're talking about a starting corner or the number two running back.

Yeah, unless, and I do think one of the questions that's offseason, this is more of a May question than a March question. But do they have aspirations of Cooper the Gene as an outside corner? Is Cooper the Gene going to be the slot here going forward because he's so good at it? But I know when they drafted him, one of the things they thought is this guy could be on the outside. So do you... And Vic said as much this fall that he is an outside corner, right? Yeah.

It's going to be interesting. He's so good in there and he's so important and everything that they do that, I mean, listen, they don't play a lot of base. You're talking about like five snaps a game at most, probably. He can play on the outside on those five snaps. But, yeah, like, and it's why, like, if you're looking at who might they sign, you know, like a guy who is better.

are inside to me is not it's not the kind of thing that they would go for but I could be wrong. No, but if let's say there's a slot, I mean, you can add a good slot corner in the fourth, fifth round in the draft, right? Sure. So what if they say a high level starting corner is a $15 million a year guy. If you have, you know, two, two rook, you know, or two guys on rookie contracts who are high level starting corners, if they view that with with the gene and they say, we can figure out the slot. We can find a slot. Let's like turn this. Let's let's let's have these two corners that we're

building around the new Lido and Sheldon. But, you know, that that's just, we look at it like Cooper the Gene was so good in the slot. I just wonder if, if they're saying long term, let's feel off this Band-Aid now and let's turn the outside job over to Cooper the Gene. Yeah. I mean, that's possible. And it's also, it could also be the kind of thing where you, use your fourth round pick on a nickel on a nickel type corner right and so then it's it's almost like he's competing with keely wringo and your and cooper gene can fill in whichever hole is needed um it gives you some optionality presumably they would want to back up there anyway like we don't think they're going to bring avonate maddox back so it will that is an interesting it's an interesting thought experiment want to do one more before the ad break here let's do one more before the ad break let's do uh convince me Draft. Convinced me draft.

Okay. Why should a non-long-term injury matter this time of year? You know, and the conversation being like Abdul Carter, you saw that with Landon Dickerson a few years ago. You saw that even Cooper the Gene last year. Should a team, if the guy's not going to miss the year, if it's not like a Sydney Jones injury, okay? But maybe he misses part of the offseason program. and maybe he even misses training camp. Should that matter in your evaluation of the player?

Well, I don't think it matter. This is kind of like a question for the GM and how you stack the board and not in the evaluation of the player, right? I think you don't, it doesn't change how you evaluate the player on tape and then you're right up of his strengths and weaknesses and, you know, how you project him moving forward. But I think it changes the evaluation a little bit.

Maybe if you're breaking ties, right? because without knowing the specific injury we're talking about, like is it the kind of thing that can be re-injured? Is it a sign that this player is a little bit injury prone? Like, is it part of a larger picture of him having suffered other injuries in the past? The thing that I would not convince you on is, and what you're hinting at, like, for instance, the Cooper DeGine situation, which was actually just an off-season injury that hamper him. But I don't think that you should shy away.

It was hurt during the combine last year. No, I know. But if your concern is, well, he's probably going to miss some time during training camp, and that's going to put him behind the eight ball developmentally, I don't think you should worry about that. I think you're, you should never be really drafting for this year. You should be drafting for a big picture. And you should be in an organization where you can trust the player development process.

So I wouldn't, I wouldn't overvalue that. I just think it's part of the larger picture on. on the person. I was thinking about this in regards to Abdul Carter, and like obviously it was never going to be a conversation with the Eagles, but there was this idea that maybe he'll fall down a few spots because of this injury. And to me, it was like, if you like Abdul Carter and a stress fracture in his foot in February is affecting the way you evaluate him, then shame on you, right?

Like, this is an injury that even if he got surgery, he'd be fine for training camp, right? Now, I understand if you want to see him compete at his pro day, but Abdul Carter's the type of player. Like, people are clearly overthinking. Like, Abdul Carter shouldn't need the test. Abdul Carter shouldn't need to work out. Like, Abdul Carter is who he is. And if there's anything that's happening other than interviews during the next, you know, two months that's affecting your evaluation of Abdul Carter, then you are completely overthinking the draft and the player evaluation process. I think that's especially right with guys at the very top of the draft

where theoretically the margins are more glaring, right? Whereas if you're talking about like which fifth around running back should we take, you know, maybe you factor it in a little bit more. All right, quick break to hear from our sponsors one more time and then we'll get back with much more Eagles conversation with a handsome Zach Berman. Speaking of handsome gentlemen, if you yourself are a, handsome gentleman looking to make a big move or perhaps make a move with a handsome gentleman. Check out Golden Nugget Jewelers. Because for the past 30 years, Golden Nugget Jewelers has

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head coach Joe Judge, the current version of Aaron Rogers, and Daniel Jones. I would, I don't know how I would do that. This is a... It's very difficult. I don't know who I would nest in there.

I actually think I would nest Joe Judge. Yeah, I guess so... Because I think you could build, in theory, at least, a roster that is coachproof. And I don't think you could ever build a team good enough with either of those two quarterbacks. Yeah, like, look, I would clearly peck Aaron Rogers there because, like, Aaron Rogers can win a game for you still. Yeah, but you might come out of that diseased. I would migrate Daniel Jones because we've already seen how that's gone. I suppose I would nest Joe Judge.

He's a Philly guy, right? You build a good staff. Maybe you can talk me into the culture building upon it of it. Yeah, I don't know. But that's a – I mean, I think you could also – you could argue the peck of Daniel Jones, really either quarterback because they are going to get you to the top of the draft, right? Yeah, but no, I do think, like, Aaron Rogers has been bad.

He was bad last year. But if you're talking one game with Aaron Rogers, I'm assuming the one is one season. Oh, okay. Because I think like Peck's a game, you know, Nest is the season. I'm thinking my grade is like 10 years. Peck is like season. Yeah.

And let's get right up. That's a tough situation there. Yeah, I don't have a good answer for that one. Let's go predict free agency. Predict free agency. Okay, predict the future on free agency. Over on. there are one and a half players signed during the legal tampering period.

So from Monday and from that Monday it opens at noon to what that Wednesday at 4 p.m. When the reports are coming out of players, the Eagles, not signed from internally, from externally. It's only external. Okay. Externals, external. Externals, new players to the team over under one and a half. Well, it's a good one. I think I would.

Yeah, Bo, okay. Oh, I'm back. I'm back. All right, good. I was worried it was my connection. And I was like, it's so suspenseful. I wanted to know where you're going. All right.

No, this has happened to me. I think I would lean over, but I don't feel good about it. I think we're talking of the Zach Bonn, Devante Parker variety, right? Guys who are sort of filling holes with maybe some non-guaranteed money in there. But I don't, I think that's a good number to set. I would not be surprised if it's, if it's one or even zero. Yeah, agree with you there. You know, and I think you and I are viewing this all season the same way.

That I don't think they're completely sitting out, but I think if they're adding guys, it's in that, you know, one and a half, two million, three million range. And the Zach Bond thing last year was a very targeted approach. Perhaps they have players like that. But typically the guys that you're signing in that, on those first three days are, you know, more money than that end, that. So right now I'm going to go with a slight under on that. So I'm going with one. Yeah, I think you might be right. All right. Let's go.

Let's stay in free agency. Let's go Woodpecker, you rather. Woodpecker, you rather. Would you rather sign a Josh sweat replacement in free agency or a Milton Williams replacement in free agency? Good question. And this is an important one. This is, I've been doing my research and I've been looking at these players. And I think my answer here is Porcano Los Dose.

I think the ideal mid-tier signing for the Eagles would be somebody who can do a little bit of both. I like that, okay. Now, like, Dio Odeyingbo from Indiana. I liked him, yeah, from Van der Bell. Who is probably going to be out of their range. Like, he's probably going to get paid a little bit too much.

I was watching him the other night. And that would be the ideal type of player. I don't love him. But typewise, you know, he lines up at all four spots. He has some pass rush production on third down from the inside. He can also play on the outside. I think what is nice about where the Eagles stand in terms of having to replace both Josh Swett and Milton Williams is they do have optionality because, yes, you want a Vic Fangio Edge to be able to drop in space. But you also, you have Nolan Smith and you have Jalick's Hunt who can both theoretically do that.

It's not like Josh Sweat needed to be great at that and needed to be super adept, and he was still able to. So you can sign an edge who hasn't done that a lot, or you could sign a guy who was really good at that. Or who has done that a lot. Like Joe Tryon Shoyenka has like his coverage rates were relatively high for an antrushar over the past two seasons. Underwhelmed, past rush production wise, a guy that I was probably wrong about. I really liked him coming out. Yeah, I know that. But like there are a lot of guys from that.

draft class. I feel like the Eagles will add one of those guys just as a dice roll. Meanwhile, a defensive tackle, you have, you know, you have Jordan Davis, you have more with Juma, who would feel good about. Thomas Booker can rotate in potentially. So you don't need a guy there, but obviously there was space to add a guy if you find one. And it could be any type. It could be a bulkier guy. And maybe you're expecting a little bit more Jordan Davis on non-rush downs, possible. I think we won't hold our breath for that. But I just think they need one guy.

And then you can wait and see what happens in the draft, right? And so like let's say it's an Oda Yingbo. And at 32, some defensive tackle stud falls to you and you're super happy. Then he can, when you get to the spring, he can just focus on playing on the edge or vice versa. If it's an edge guy, oh, all of a sudden he's going to be, you know, really specializing in being our third defensive tackle next to Jalen Carter. I think they have some nice flexibility there, which also truthfully means that they can probably let the market come to them

and figure out who is still available and can fill a role. But I think if they're going to be aggressive, it would make sense for it to be somebody who can do multiple things. Well said. And I am with you on Deo. That's a good player to watch. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, well, my guess,

as he gets a bigger offer to go somewhere else. But he's the kind of player. And there are a bunch of, you know, you think back to that draft when they drafted Lennon Dickerson, you know, what's a week? Trevin Merrick was a guy who they liked a lot. They liked Aziz O'Jolari. There are guys who went later, Joe Osai, who didn't have super productive rookie contracts. But we know that Howie Roseman, you know, sort of believes in the anchoring of those

early draft picks and hoping that they can get more out of those guys. Yeah. I think that they're more likely to sign an edge rusher than a detackle for the reasons that you mentioned. I think that they're going to get Jordan Davis a little more playing time next year. I think Ojima is ready for more work. Ojima's ready for more work. But I think there are less numbers right now at edge rusher. Okay.

Let's close out free agency. Let's stick the landing on free agency. Convince me. So you just mentioned Azizzo Jalari. That's a player you and I both like coming out of Georgia. That's a player we both like this year. We talked about the trade deadline. But let me ask you this.

Why is Aziz O Jalari a better profile than Bryce Huff last year? Fair question. My instincts are severalfold in why they would argue that he's different. One, he's played more. He has been a starting. or starting caliber player for them has played on more than just third downs. He did enter the league with a higher profile, which matters to the Eagles. We're talking about a second round pick as opposed to a guy who went undrafted.

And three, I think he's probably going to be less expensive. Yeah. He's also younger. Yeah. So, I mean, he's only going to be 25 in June. So I think it's a, I think it is a more attractive profile. even if the raw numbers are less gaudy than what Bryce Up did in 2023. But I also think he's going to be cheaper.

Yeah, which kind of befuddles me because I... You're like, he's buried on these lists. He's like in like the 40s of these agency rankings. It befuddles me because as I say, like, if they lose all their guys, who's a guy that they should go out and sign, Azizzo Jollari is like that type of player for me. When you look at the age profile, when you look at the player, When you look at what he was coming out, when you look at like he's had some decent level production with the Giants.

Yeah. So I admitted that I liked Bryce Huff and during free agency last year. I was wrong on that. It might have been some scheme involved there. But if you said to me, like if both were free agents even last year, I would rather pay Azizzo Jalari the $17 million than the Bryce Huff's $17 million. And last year, I didn't think Bryce Huff was going to get $17. I thought Bryce Self was going to be more in that 14-15 range last year. The guy who has also played in space.

Yes. Now, his production has declined since he had a very good rookie year, and it has gone down since then. He's also had some trouble staying healthy. So those are things that will knock him down. But yeah, I think he is a player who the Eagles will be keeping a temperature on. All right, let's go convince me Eagles roster. Convince me Eagles roster.

Convince me that Tyler Steen needs real competition, because when you and I have spoken in the past, I said that, you know, I don't think the Eagles view Mackay Beckton as $8 million better than Tyler Steen, and they can turn that over to Tyler Steen. And you say you agree, but with competition for Tyler Steen, why does Tyler Steen need legit competition, if at right guard? Because every indication the Eagles have given us since he's been in Philadelphia is that they don't trust him as a penned-in starter and that they want him to have competition.

and in their eyes he has lost competitions in the past. So you want the guy to earn a job. Two, depth-wise, I mean, they don't have anybody else, right? Like, you're not going to, you can't rely on making it through a season with all five guys starting 17 games. And with Fred Johnson also slated to be a free agent, in addition to Mackay Beckton, they need that like Jack of All Trades guy who maybe you are, let's, let's say you don't come out of the draft with an offensive lineman in the first three rounds, you need a guy who can provide, you know, competent starting ability at right guard,

but also back up a tackle so that you're hoping that Steen beats him out, but then you have a guy who can fill in on game day. Is there, well, we'll get to it next week. We don't need to put the cart before the horse, but is there a veteran guard, the Stefan Wisniewski type, who you, who, you, don't wait until the draft who you bring in. I think they signed Wisniewski on March 26th or thereabouts and who you bring in in March to kind of draft proof your roster.

And you say even if you don't draft a tackle guard swing guy in the first three rounds, here's someone who can compete with Tyler Steen this summer. Well, somebody mentions it in the chat and we should say, like there's a chance that internally, despite him not playing at all this season, and they view Trevor Kagan as a potential competitor for Tyler Steen at Red Guard. Maybe Kinnar too. Maybe Knaar too, your boy. That's true.

And they might view Kinnard as the Fred Johnson replacement. That is possible. I was looking at all of the free agent offensive linemen. And so here are the guys who are available who have played at least 200 snaps at both right tackle and left tackle over the past. three seasons, so 200 snaps combined over the past three seasons, and are 30 years or younger. Okay. So it's a pretty small list. You got Patrick McCarrey from the Ravens who is going to get paid. He's a true starting offensive lineman. Now, a guy who has played, that guy has played all five positions. So I do think he will be out of the Eagles range. Joe Noteboom, who's 30.

Larry Borum, who's 26, I think could be a little bit, a little bit curious for the Eagles, James Hudson, Fred Johnson, and Stone Forsyth. So it's not a particularly great list there. You are breaking up on me again. But yeah, if you're just looking to time me out, and if we exit, if you're looking for a guy who can cover if we don't, to draft proof you, right, as as they gave it backup. Those are guys who could potentially make sense. We can knock out a few. Also probably, those are also probably an argument for just keeping Fred Johnson.

Well said. All said. Do you want to mention anything before we get to the next one? Yes, I would like you to unbutton that top button. Oh. Thank you for watching on Fast. If you would like to see a little peek at Zach's chest hair, the only way to find out if you're going to get it is by checking out the rest of the episode

on all p.gly.com. I'm sorry for the internet today. This is tough. No, no problem. I don't know if it's an internet issue or a, or a computer issue. It's possible. Maybe too many tabs.

It's possible to be too many tabs. Yeah. How many tabs you're working with right now? Too many. Over under 99.5. Under. Okay, good. Okay.

Yeah. All right. Let's go. Would Pecker you rather draft? Woodpecker, you rather draft? Would you rather an edge rusher with standout production and subpar size testing or an edge rusher with standout size testing in subpar production? And the roots of this, you know, we have, you know, guys who think very highly of you.

I hope me, but I know they think highly of you. Our friends, Josh Norris and Greg Rosenthal. Josh Norris had a tweet yesterday essentially saying that the value athleticism at edge rusher. Okay. Here. He said, I would love the giraffe to pass rusher with top tier athleticism and great production. But if that's not possible, I would pick the top tier athlete over college production. And then I saw a Greg Rosenthal tweet today.

And like they were an argument with each other. These were different concepts. But this also got me thinking where I think Booger McFarland said like that, you know, Shmar Stort, who tested great yesterday, should be in competition for the number one pick. And Greg Rosenthal said, does he have first round tape, much less number one overall? right and so it got me thinking like how much at that position specifically are it's it's probably even the Trayvon Walker Aidan Hutchinson conversation right how much are you valuing the athletic traits well I guess just answer that that that question if you had to choose would you choose between

the tape and the subpar production or the elite athletic testing and the you know what I'm asking Yeah, I know what you're asking. It's, and I want to play along. It's very difficult because it's a sliding scale, right? It's like, well, what if one guy is elite production and like a 45th percentile athlete and another guy is a 99th percentile athlete, but he's never had a sack in his life. Like, you know, there's, you got to sort of weigh both of those things. I think assuming that we're talking about like the same sort of level of stuff,

I think at that position specifically, I probably, would lean toward the athlete and the traits, especially if you are in an organization where you can trust your player development. Now, I don't think that that is what I would always do. There are, you know, there's the old football outsiders like sacksier thing, which I think is sort of gone by the wayside, but like sacks can be predictive for Eddrusher's, but not always. I do think if you are going to overlook, this is a bit, Oh, no, not again. Okay.

This is a bit contrary to what I was just saying. I think if you are going to overlook middling production, I do think it needs to be elite athleticism. I'm not willing to not care about a guy who has three sacks because he's like an 80th percentile athlete. I need to sort of see like real potential ceiling there. Whereas I am losing you there. DeNeil Hunter is the guy who comes to mind for me.

He had one and a half sacks. at LSU and he but great athlete great size great frame turned into a great NFL player it's a bad job I got to be doing the Julia I got to be doing the quick time record so that at least on the audio we can you can get my actual answers as opposed to just the garbled nonsense but I'm sorry uh should we finish the game or should we or should we wrap this up while well you know we have some good stuff here she no let's finish the game predict all right okay okay predict draft sorry I was saying I didn't know how how your Wi-Fi is doing here. predict the draft.

Do the Eagles draft in the first round this year? I've been here the whole time. I saw what you did there. I was so worried about you. I'm like, oh, God, okay. Because I never know. All right, do you want me to carry this year? Are we waiting you out?

Yeah, all right, good job there. That was funny. I'm going to go, I think they don't because I think you can, odds-wise, you're pricing in both the possibility of a trade-back. in the possibility of a trade for a player. So if I had, given the, given, if I had to choose, I would say no, but I think it's very close. Yeah, if I had to choose, I would say no as well.

All right. Last one. Eagles roster predict. Eagles roster predict. Wow, we rolled through all these. I didn't think that. Okay. Eagles roster predict is the QB3 for next year on the Eagles roster?

No. I think not. Okay. So, so they're, they're trading picket. I think more than it. It would like to, yeah. Okay. Is there any chance they cut pick it and go with the developmental guy for the third player? They say McKee's ready.

Okay. There's any chance that. I mean, he doesn't make any money. Like. But he would make, well, I guess it's guaranteed, right? First round pick. But yeah. So, okay.

Yeah. I think that's pretty unlikely. What about you? Yeah, I agree. I agree. I do think they're going to turn this over to McKee. And I think they trade picket. And I think that the same conversation that we've had,

I think they're going to disregard last year's price. And they're going to say they got value from him with him last year, right? He started a game. He was a reliable backup. They traded fourth round. But even if they got sixth round value back this year, right? You got, you know, you got what you were looking for. You bought McKee a year.

The only other thing is if you think there's any chance that McKee, that that picket makes any money in free agency next year, then you do think about the comp formula, right? Is it better just to have them in the building, like get them away for a sixth round pick, right? But I do think they're going to turn that number two job over to McKee. All right. We close with a super chat from Frank, who says, Zach, what would make you more uncomfortable unbuttoning the next button down on your shirt or unbuttoning both of the collar point buttons?

Good question. Unbuttoning the collar point buttons for this particular shirt would make me more uncomfortable, right? Because you can unbutton this and pull it off from the style perspective, right? Yeah, you can still keep it close together. You can fold it over. Yeah, exactly. Now, I'm not always wearing the button down collars. It's just the nature. But if I have the button down collar on the shirt, it looks so sloppy if that's flopping around there and you don't have the collar. You can't have that. And that's not true. That's not your, uh, your M. Oh, yeah. You got to be put together. That's this is Zach Berman.

Yeah, but if you go, if you go with that, you can, you can, you can like, all right. I mean, you can like justify that at least, you know, like it's a, you know, it's a summer afternoon outside, right? I mean, you can, you can, you can rationalize that. That's here. Heater, baby. This here is just sloppy.

For the audio listeners, you don't have to watch the whole episode, but you got to go to about a minute six in to check out the flash there from Zach, because that was just, I mean, H-O-T-O-G-O. I got to tell you something, Bo. This is, I am, if there's anything I am, I am proud of, okay? Let me show you this bad boy here. I don't know if you can see this in the screen. 8 and a half hours

8 and a half hours last night 8 and a half hours last night missed 13 text messages overnight but I was exhausted yesterday I had the I left for the airport I went to bed at 3 got up at 6 to go to the

or at 545 to go to the airport at 615 and it affected my performance on the show yesterday and I said, you know what? I'm doing this show Friday. I do have some writing things I wrote for our Phoenix website. There's some other stuff I'm working on, but I'm like, there's no good work I'm doing tonight. I said that last night. So I said to Emily, she came in. She was watching Paradise, I think it was. And she's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, no wonder you, this has been your best show in years. I'm like, I'm going to sleep, Emily. Like, I'm not putting

coherent thoughts together. I'm going to try to sleep, you know, just get some sleep. Slept eight and a half hours. I woke up this morning and man, I have been like, it's like Adderall today. Like I have just been rolling. I would like you to learn this lesson, internalize this lesson. I, I played with the kids this morning. I've put together the 25 steps for Howie Roseman. I wrote that story for all p.m. You know, I transcribed it. last night, but I wrote the story today for go p.hnx.com. I've responded to three different emails. I was on a show.

Like, I've been, I've been, I've been, I'm responding to morning to quit. But like, yeah, eight hours and 32 minutes last night. So, man, sleep's like Adderall. This, not that I know what Adderall is like, but like, I'm just, I feel like Bradley Cooper and Limitless right now. Zach, I want you to remember this lesson. I mean, but it's like sometimes it's just not possible, but, you know, after a game, it's not, but certainly during the week, it's something that I should. You mix it in.

Exactly. There's a tool in your toolbox. Tool in my toolbox. You're right. And I think I put it, honestly, I think I'm speaking better on the show today. I think I'm thinking better on the show today. Yeah. So there were, I was listening back yesterday's show.

And I was like, I don't sound good. Like, I, you know, I'm lost in thought. I'm coughing. I'm like, ah. All right. Restorative power of sleep. So yeah, I slept eight hours and 32 minutes last night. It's a new, Zach Berman, all of a sudden.

Yeah. I mean, and if you look at the pie chart, man. Like, look at that chart there. Yeah. I mean, that's got to be your, that's got to be your, your, your most in a while. There was a weekend night recently where. The night of the parade, that night of the parade in NYU and I went to New York. after the parade and I slept eight hours in New York.

Okay. Matt Dio says, Mark it, eight hours of sleep equals the beginning of ZB's 2025 heater. I hope so, man. Please be a diehard. We got some good stuff coming up. Although I would like to say, you know, I've written five pieces this week for all-PHLY.com.

I hope if there is a heater, I'm already on one, but there's more good stuff coming up. Fantastic. ZB-832 says, I just slept my ass off, says, Smitty Juergens in the chat. Yeah. I mean, what a reveal. What a reveal.

Yeah, I was, I was proud of that one. And look, Mr. Mr. V, I hope you're watching right now because he's honest with me. And I've gotten some really angry, or some, I should say angry pointed texts I've gotten. So, yeah, Mr. V, that's, that's partly for you, mainly for me, but partly for you. And hopefully a little bit for Emily and the kids. Yeah.

Yeah, hopefully for Emily and the kids. And hopefully a little bit for Emily and the kids. Yeah, okay. All right, that'll do it for this episode of the PHAWI Eagles podcast. On behalf of Zach, all of the, this is a good like all of the Z's Zach, Julia, Mr. V, and all of us. We thank you for watching and listening. We will talk to you on Monday. And as always, we love you.