PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Shemar Stewart and Shavon Revel among the 2025 NFL Draft’s biggest Boom or Bust prospects

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

Fran Duffy is here for another week of expert NFL Draft insight, this time focusing on the players in the draft who have the widest range of possible outcomes, including Texas A&M’s Shemar Stewart, East Carolina’s Shavon Revel and Texas’ Isaiah Bond. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the PHLY Draft show with Fran Duffy. Look at that beautiful thumbnail of a smiling Fran Duffy. We are here on a Tuesday afternoon with you to talk about the draft. Amid all the things that are happening in the NFL, let's narrow our focus to the draft. However, I think we'll have a little bit of a conversation about some of the ramifications of the things that have happened over the first 36 hours and what they could happen, what they could mean for the draft. But our focus today, starting Fran, with the most boom or bustling. prospects in this draft. And I think there are specific players we're going to talk about, but I also am curious about

sort of the big picture conversation about how you view the bets that you would make on a guy with a wide range of outcomes if there are positions where you are more likely to make, you know, those bets if it has to do with the quality of the draft overall. Like if there are fewer certainties, are you more willing to reach for that ceiling? But it should be a fun conversation. How are you doing? I think so. it'll be uh i think it's funny you'll say that because as i was putting together the list of six

players that we were going to talk about through this exercise uh i started asking myself those questions because it is a little bit it's different on a case to case basis but we'll get to that and obviously there's always going to be a a point when you do want to make the bet yes right it's like okay maybe i don't want to make that bet at nine overall but yeah if i move down to 20 i'll take that swing with all of these guys you're going to you're going to make those calculations and so why don't we just get into it let's let's start we're talking about we're talking about talking about the sixth players in this draft do you think are the most boomer busts,

the most wide range of outcomes. And I think why don't we start with the player who's on the thumbnail here, Shamar Stewart from Texas A&M, who I think, I don't want to speak for you, but you are a little bit lower on that consensus. But let's talk about what the range of outcomes with him is. He's a player who

tests like an unbelievable athlete, doesn't have a great history of college production. What is the ceiling for Shamar Stewart if he puts it all together? Yeah, the ceiling is Cam Jordan, you know, in terms of a pro bowl rusher, maybe not like an all pro, but a long time force off the edge who wins with strength and power and explosiveness. And this is a guy that can get from A to B in a flash. You see here on the graphic that I had him as my edge 13.

This was pre-combine. I shouldn't even say pre-combine, but it was just a couple weeks ago when this graphic was made. I've talked with some people in the last few weeks just getting more like character background and just getting a sense of okay who is this guy on a personal level and that is honestly a factor for me when it comes to a lot of these players, Bo is like the boom bust aspect of it. Do I believe that you have the character that you have like and those things are impossible for me to know just because I don't not boots on the ground on campus talking to as many sources as scouts are but that's why I have to rely on talking with scouts to get that sense, right?

So everything I've heard about Shmar Stewart has been pretty good off the field. This guy does everything the right way. It's just the production has not found him. I am a big believer in, especially for defensive linemen in production, inconsistently being able to find the football. And so when I see a defensive end with the traits that he's got, six foot five, he came in 267 at the combine. He was 281 at the senior bowl,

so clearly cut a good amount of weight there to be able to test for the combine. Ended up running sub 4-6 in the 10-yard split. Jumped to 131 inches in the broad, 40 inches in the fur, just outrageous numbers for a guy that big. Only one and a half sacks all three seasons on campus. That's tough. How do you explain that? That's tough to square away.

And everyone's going to say Daniel Hunter did it. Right? Yeah. That's the guy who everybody points to. And you'll remember, I loved Daniel. hunch. That's funny. You know, like, and that's what he'd be like, so it's not just, oh, like some positions I'm into it and some others. I loved Jason Oway. I was in on Jason Oway coming out of Penn State.

Odafeo. Yes, right. Back then he was Jason. Back then he was Jason away. You know, and to me that there's, and that's why it's the. So what is it? What is it about Shamar Stewart that doesn't hook you? For me, he's really explosive A to B, like straight line explosive.

He's not as good laterally. He didn't do the shuttles, but he got hurt. So I think that's part of it. So he got dinged up halfway through the workout, so I had to pull out, didn't do any the position work at the combine. But when I watch him on film, I don't see a guy. I see a guy that's really stiff in his ankles and his knees to be able to make those lateral type of moves.

When he has got to try and turn the corner, it's the school bus like take wide turns. Okay. Situation, right? So bend. He doesn't have enough bend. And so when you're talking about the, the athleticism to be able to break down and finish tackle. Some of that can be from that lack of bend, right?

Where it's like he's unable to be able to break down and be able to finish at times in the backfield. Yeah, that's one of the things that kind of left me wanting. I think when you're looking at him as well, this is a guy. And look, obviously, if this was more developed, he probably would have more production. But like, and this isn't uncommon, but the pass rush plan aspect of things, you know, he just leans really heavily. It's just bull rush, bull rush, bull rush.

And if that's not there, if he doesn't, win with that bull rush, he's not getting home. And that's something that you see often with young rushers, but that is definitely the case with Stewart. No, I think the conversation that would be had in a building, as opposed to if we're just ranking prospects, right, is, okay, he needs this development. Are we able to give him this development?

You have to sort of know how good you are at developing players. Not every organization can do that. There's a lot that depends on the coaching staff, the position coaches. is also like how much time do you a lot to things like that. Now, a first-round pick is different. You're going to put resources there. But like what kind of development does he need?

And you can't speak to every single team in the league, but like, you know, how likely is it that you think he could get that development? So there are some systems, that we'll start with the team by team thing first. There are some teams that are going to thrive with pass rushers that are built this way, right? Where there is, it's, again, it's that like A to B, that crasher off the edge.

Again, so I think of like Cam Jordan. To me, if he ends up in Chicago playing for Dennis Allen, that's a good scheme fit and also playing for a coach that has shown the propensity to be able to develop those kinds of rushers, right? And so, you know, to me, like, because Carl Granderson was a late round pick. He was long, really underdeveloped coming out of Wyoming, if I remember.

And he was a guy that struggled to be able to turn the corner and he'd be able to find the football. He turned into a nice player for the New Orleans Saints. I mentioned Cam Jordan already. Marcus Davenport, right? it was a similar kind of body, similar type of skill set. They traded a first round, a future first to trade up to get Davenport out of UTSA, didn't quite live up to that slot.

Injuries had something to do with it. But I think when you're looking at Shamar Stewart, that is a good fit there. And I said that's not when I did my mock draft last week. I gave Chicago, Shamar Stewart, in that mock draft. Now, as far as what he specifically needs, look, the ankle flexibility thing, probably not going to change, right? I don't think that that can, improve a little bit. Teams can tweak that. Their developmental staff and their strength staff

can try and improve it. But the big thing would be that that pass rush plan that I talked about, just continuing to have that full understanding. Hey, you might want to lean into your bull rush, but can you work on a ghost move? Can you work on an inside spin? Are you able to find other ways to be able to threaten offensive linemen on a more consistent basis? Okay, so we talked about the boom case. The bus case is rotational at best. Yeah. Because honestly, like the guy that I thought of, while watching him was Zach Harrison. Now, Zach Harrison was a fourth round pick out of Ohio State, a couple of years, two drafts ago by the Atlanta Falcons.

Harrison was a five-star recruit just like Stewart. Harrison was viewed as like this big physical marvel coming out. Didn't test like out of this world, but tested well. He goes to, he goes to Atlanta and he was viewed as an edge when they, when they drafted them in 2023. Well, just this past year, they moved into defensive tackle really quick. one year they're like yeah he's not he's not athletic enough to play on the edge we have to kick him inside that's the bust case well that's my question with him is that is that a possibility for him

is like let's just make him a third down inside pass rusher yeah that's that's it and look there's a chance that he turns into what if he becomes troncy golson there's a chance he becomes troncy golson tonsie goulson was a fourth fifth round pick yeah right out of iowa just signed a decent deal yesterday with the the new york giants coming away from dallas but that's the kind of body type that you're talking about and look there there's that chance that he can bounce between and be a nice rotational player, but you don't want to draft that 10 overall, 15 overall, 21 overall, much less higher than that. All right. Let's go from Shamar Stewart to a boomer bus player who I think you are higher on than consensus. And that is Chavon Ravelle, the corner from

East Carolina. Why is he someone who has a wide range of outcomes? Well, he's only got 15 starts at the FBS level. He's played less than 900 snaps at the FBS level. That said, he's 6-2 with 32. and a half inch arms and he's got four three speed on film i mean the height weight speed is outstanding and as you see there he is your he is your cb three yes uh to me first round tape all day um yeah and i think when you're looking at revel uh the big thing is transferred up from juco uh went to to east east carolina uh didn't play that first year second year became a starter in 2023 played the full season uh had uh one pick and 13 pb u scored a defensive touchdown off a fumble recovery was second team all AAC made it to Feldman's freak list was number 35 on Bruce Feldman's

Freaklist entering the year. That's when, you know, I was like, all right, I got to make sure I watch this kid. He was already in my list because he was second team all conference the year before. But when I went back and I watched, I'm like, okay, like there's, there's legit talent here. Watched a couple of games earlier this season. They played Old Dominion and they played Appalachian State. And I think it was a week and a half later in practice, he tore his ACL, clean tear. All intense purpose seems like he's going to be good to go. There was, I think him and his team released a report that he's going to be good to start running and doing routes on air, that like that kind of thing, you know, by the time he gets to the summer.

So he should be a full go for training camp, but you're talking about a small school corner with limited reps coming off an ACL. That's just a tough bet to make. That said, like to me, when I'm watching and I say like hyper-competitive with ball skills and height, weight speed, that's too much to pass up on, in my opinion. And so at that position, are you more or less willing to take a gamble? it depends so for me and this gets into like my personal yeah let's hear my personal feelings on corner um i'm big into instincts ball skills and competitiveness uh it's funny i was doing an exercise

uh this morning okay where um you know because this is my first year we're able to share all of my draft notes right on all these players well i've been doing reports for 15 plus years you've been doing guys for a long time uh long time uh and so um when i was like all right well for some of the big names this week that are changing teams. Let me go back. I'll pull up my scouting report on them when they were coming out of college and I'll share them. And a number of the corners just because I was like, oh, like I remember doing this guy when he came out. And so I shared DJ Reed and I shared Paulson-Dibbo and Carlton Davis and I shared a few of these. And it's a lot of the same buzzwords keep popping up. And it just kind of doubles down for me on my feelings on the position. Competitiveness,

ball skills, instincts. Like, regardless of height weight speed, because there were questions about the speed with Paulson Adivo. Gabe Davis torched him in that UCF game a few years back when he was at Stanford. There were questions about DJ Reed and his size. Jordan Lewis was another one.

They had questions about his size. But all of these guys played with a ton of urgency. They all played with outstanding ball skills, and they had the instincts at the top of the route to consistently match receivers, whether it was man or zone or both. And so when I look at Revel, he checks enough of those boxes,

especially from the competitiveness standpoint where I say, yeah, I feel good about his ability to transition in the league. And so is there a range where, you know, I guess your big board's coming up this week. Yeah. So people can see this. Are we talking at like top 20? He's going to be high. He's going to be there in the board.

Now, where does he go in a mock draft? That becomes a little bit of tougher. You know, when I did my first mock draft, I got a couple texts from people like, you're nuts for having Chavondra, having a small school corner coming off an ACL who played less than 900 snaps going to the first round. round. And I that's fair, but that's the difference. But well, see, that's the difference though between because when I'm doing a mock draft, that is a predictive exercise. When I'm doing the board, that is not predict that is a predictive exercise from this is where I see the player being

valued five years from now. Whereas the mock draft, that's how it's going to go out of the board. Some people do the board as like, I want my top 32 to be the first 32 players off the board. I couldn't, I couldn't care less about that. I want to, this is how I see the player, you know, five years from now. And the best way to check that out is to become a diehard. And now is a great time to become a diehard, chance to join for just $36 a year introductory offer. Make sure you check that out. And also access to all of Friends Scouting reports on these guys.

All right, let's move on to the next player on this list. Let's go with Texas big man Cameron Williams, 6-6-317. But he is your tackle 13. What is the boom? What is the bust? So only a one-year start? at offensive on the offensive line. That's always a tricky bet.

I mean, he played 149 snaps going into this year. So it just has not played a lot of football. If memory serves was late to football in high school as well. So you're talking about the guy that's got a lot of reps under his belt. That said, 6-6. He was listed 317 at the Combine. From what I understand, he cut a lot of weight. He was like, in high school, he was north of 360.

I had one person tell me that he was well north of that at some point as well. So you're talking about a guy that's got the ability to carry a lot of weight, but didn't become a start of this year and just, I mean, a boatload of penalties. It was just very inconsistent with his technique, gave up a lot of production late in the year. The traits are there for days. I honestly kind of, because I watched a game or two early on from, yeah, I watched the Michigan game and the Mississippi State game, which were in the first half of the year. And I was intrigued.

I said, okay, this guy's definitely got starting quality traits. but as you watch more and more time go on and you just saw like the opposing rushers were having this level of success and the penalty count just kept growing up knowing that there was a lot of talent in this offensive tackle class. I assumed, all right, Williams is going to go back.

He's going to go back to Texas. He's going to play another year. He ended up coming out in this class and now it just becomes, all right, you know, it's obviously a big swing. There's traits there to develop but how long will it take him to get there? That is a little bit of a scary proposition.

Now, for the specifically Eagles fans. Yes. Would you feel like you are better suited to take a gamble on a player with that wide range of outcomes because of Jeff Stathland? No question. Look, this guy's got all the traits that you're looking for. He's got good feet.

He's strong. He flashes great power. The lower body flexibility is a little bit of an issue at times. And that can be a little bit of an issue. But I think when you're looking at a guy that has all those traits, he's also only played right tackle. So you start getting into that. like all right, he's going to have to prove to this.

He have that swing versatility. You know, could he kick inside the guard, you know, at times early on as well. But he looks, I mean, dude, he looks so good on the move. You know, the Eagles ran a lot of counter this year where they were pulling those offensive linemen from one side to the other. When they did the GT counter stuff at Texas, he looks so good as a polar. You just see, you see the traits. It's all there.

My guess is you're talking about a day two pick. And it's a little bit easier to swallow that kind of a gamble as opposed to round one, which is how he was being built. when you got to like November, December of this past year. Okay. Let's move on. Let's do it. Next up, we have, let's stay in Texas. Let's go to Isaiah Bond.

Right. The wide receiver. Why is he someone with a wide range of outcomes? Why is he boom or bust? Yeah, he was a guy that was viewed as a potential first round pick coming into the season. And that was off of being a starter at Alabama last year in 2023. He had just 48 catches for only 68 yards a year ago, just four touchdowns. So the production wasn't great in that.

that Alabama passing game, but you saw dynamic speed, playmaking ability, the ability to get on top of corners and make those plays down the field. He goes to Texas, saw some production early, only 34 catches, only 540 yards. So like the numbers dropped from what he was at Alabama. Now the injuries kind of took hold. He was banged up. He was in and out of the lineup. You saw Matthew Golden kind of take that next step, and he became the alpha dog in that passing game. Gunner Helm, the tight end. He caught a lot of balls. And so, the target chair and things like that did not favor Isaiah Bond. That said, four three speed, really good flashes,

especially with the ball in his hands. I feel like they really unlocked him from a yards after the catch standpoint here this past season for Steve Sarkeesian. And you see the overall good athleticism. I thought he had one of the better position workouts at the wide receiver spot in the combine. That said, one of my favorite things this time of year now, Bo is like we, now that I've got all the data points that I'm going to get, right? you got all the athletic data points, you've got all the stuff from the season.

So now you can start to kind of like mix and match and find some interesting like combination of factors. And so one of the guys that I did a little bit of a deep dive on as I was just wrapping up my report on yesterday was Isaiah Bond. And I said, all right, well, let's let's just look at, you know, some of his numbers. And I mentioned like the production has not been great. He averaged just 1.73 yards per route run in college. He's projected as a day two pick.

That's a really low number for a day two pick. Now, over the last 10 years, here's the list of day two receivers with less yards per route run or fewer, fewer yards per round run. Fewer yards per route run. A.D. Mitchell last year coming out of Texas, Van Jefferson, Terry McLaren, good player. Jalen Hurd disappeared in San Francisco. Jonathan Mingo, Josh Palmer. That's the list. So it's a very short list. And only one of those guys really hit from that day two draft slot. all of those guys were 200 pounds we're bigger, sturdy, he's 180. So again, so you're threading the needle here

in terms of what does this guy bring to the table? What are the chances that he's going to hit? I do think there's boom bust there, but clearly NFL ability. And wide receiver is a tough one because it is a position where there are so many options. Yeah. And so it's, you know,

it's not like you need a tackle and there are only so many guys who are that size and you want to take the upside swing. I mean, there are always going to be wide receivers. Would you rather take a slightly safer swing, even if the ceiling is maybe not as high, but there is much more certainty of it being, you know, a double? Yeah, and it also comes into like the,

does a guy have like an elite trait or not? Yeah. And he's got like, he's got speed that in this class is elite, and really in any class, I mean, you're a four three guy. You're a four three guy. I do think that he brings that top end juice, but I agree to your point, when you're talking about pure volume of receivers every single year,

You could also find a guy that's got four three speed later in the draft that also can, you know, maybe you get a similar kind of value. All right. Let's go up with a couple super chats that we have here. Rick actually just one says Wyatt. Myelm. Myelm. Wyatt Milam thoughts, Fran.

So I was probably, I would say that I'm lower. Who is Wyatt Milam? Okay. Good, good question. So offensive tackle from West Virginia. A lot of people view as a guard moving into the NFL, just 32 inch arms. I think that's prohibitive to 32 and an 8th. We're not talking just under 33, like with Will Campbell,

like we're talking closer to 32. You know, at 6-6-313, that's an extreme lack of length. Now, he is a player that's played some right tackle. He's played some left tackle. But again, he was going to have to slide into guard. He did so at the senior ball struggled. Before that, I was still a little bit lower on him. I think the consensus.

Some people thought him that he would be a first-round talent. I didn't quite see that on film. I saw a player that was just solid across the board, solid athleticism, solid strength, solid power. I thought the technique was fine, but not like, oh, man, like he's going to be a technician the moment he steps into his future NFL team. I like the starting experience at both tackle spots. I like the edge that he plays with. So there's competitiveness there and there's versatility.

That's a great, like, starting point there for an offensive lineman. I just saw more of like a high-end swing backup and low-end starter as opposed to somebody I would take in a round one. So when you're talking like, boom, bust, he's the opposite. boom bust. I feel really good about the floor. I just didn't love the ceiling. Okay. Let's keep you going with the boom bust conversation. And another player who you are higher on

than consensus, lots of people love Colston Loveland, lots of people love Mason Taylor. But your number two tight end in this class after Tyler Warren is Elijah Arroyo who you have talked about before from Miami. 6.5 250, productive. Why is he boombust in your eyes?

So he spent four years on campus at Miami. Had a combined 11 catches in the three years before the first three years. So injuries have taken their toll. It was barely on the field. Only played four games last year. Only played four games in 2022. Became a starter in 2024, started all 13 games. And this guy was extremely dynamic. 35 catches, 590 yards, seven touchdowns. When you look at what percentage of his passes were targeted deep down the field, 30% of his targets were deep down the field. That's at least 20 yards down the field. That's an extremely high number for the tight end. position, but then you pair that with the fact that he averaged almost nine yards,

nine yards after the catch per reception. So this is the guy that can be targeted vertically down the field, but he's also outstanding after the catch. Yack is a great separator when you talk about like guys at the at the tight end spot in different clumps. You know, that's one of the things that separates Dallas Gauter. It's one of the things that separates George Kittle is what they can do with the ball in their hands. And I think Arroyo, he's got that ability to be a seam stretcher, but also like the RPO game, the tight-end screens. He's very valuable there. I think he's got an extremely high ceiling as a route runner. A lot of the things that you look for is like,

this is what can make a player elite only one drop in his entire career, obviously a low sample, but just one drop in his entire career. To me, like this guy's got the ability to be a game breaker at the position, but the injuries were a big issue. Only one year of starting experience working in the middle of the field. You need tight ends to be a factor in both the run game and the past game. How is you going to handle from a mental load? standpoint, didn't work out of the combine because he got dinged up from an inch.

So again, like that injury question creeps back in. So that's why Arroyo becomes a little bit more of a boom-bust possibility. I feel like, I feel like tight end is a spot where I would take a swing. I agree with you. Yeah. Yes. Just thinking about like the upside of a dynamic tight end. Yes.

Is difference making to your offense. And it's also, it is an easier position to replicate just baseline level play. Like you could find it. a blocking tight end who can get you through a season. And so, like a bad tight end miss is not going to kill you

as much as it like, you're not going to be able to find a starting caliber tackle if you miss on your first or second round tackle. Yep. Whereas at tight end, I think you could.

And so I think I am kind of more willing to shoot high there. He's an inch shorter and 10 pounds lighter than this player. But like Jimmy Graham when he came out of Miami was, you know, he was the third round pick,

barely played, I think he only played one year of football because he was a basketball player at the U. Arroyo is electric as an athlete. And some of the things I saw very early on, watching Cam Ward, watching him against Florida,

and you just see this guy, running through the middle of the field, making plays vertically down the field. That's a guy you want to take a gamble on. And so why do you think the consensus is that he's a little bit lower? They worry about the blocking and they worry about the block. And honestly,

when I studied him, I think he's not going to be a plus blocker, in my opinion, but I think that he checks the box there, you know, both in past protection and in the run game, especially as a move guy, like on counterplays and things like that, I would say he's, you know,

better than what we've seen from like Grant Calcutera for the Eagles fans that are watching. Like I think that he more than checks the box there. That's all I need. If you're going to bring that kind of value as a receiver and you can just check the box as a blocker, that's more than enough in my opinion. All right. Our last boom bust prospect to talk about Michigan defensive tackle.

The other one. Yes. Kenneth Grant, 6.3.5, 331. He is your defensive tackle. Michael five, why is he someone who has a wide range of out? Yeah, I mean, you're talking about another player that, I mean, he first came on my radar before he ever stepped on the field. Bruce Feldman put him on his freak list before his freshman season even began.

They said, yeah, like he came in at number 46 in his top 50 before he ever set foot on the field for the Wolverines, came in at number three on that freak list coming into the year. You mentioned the measurables. Did not work out at the combine. And when you're looking at from a production standpoint, always just kind of left you wanting. He did have seven TFLs and three sacks this year, but didn't become a starter until this season.

So despite all those physical tools, despite the fact that he got all that buzz, because that's the thing is you've got to remember, when Bruce Feldman puts those lists together, he's getting those names from scouts, but he's also getting those names from coaches and sources. So the fact that he got all that buzz at Michigan before he sat on the field,

but didn't become a starter this year, that's a little bit of a... Okay, that's a little red flagish for me. Yeah, where it's like, okay, like if he was this, heralded as this huge athlete, how come he wasn't a bigger part of that defense? I could see that.

So that was something for me that stood out. That said, I've got some friends in that building in Michigan. Flex. Yeah. And they all, they speak very highly of them. So,

you know, there could be nothing there. That's why I'm not saying like, oh, man, like, you write this guy off. But production has just been okay. And the fact that he just didn't, you know,

there was a comparison I heard with him I want to say, I think it was my friend Ben Fennell, who put this out on Twitter. Some Don Terry Poe there. Oh, interesting. Great, it's a great callback, 2012 draft class. Fun player to watch. And Kenneth Grant is that. At 6-4, 330, he's got really light feet.

The flashes are outstanding. I just think that he's the hole or the, what is it, the hole is less than the sum of the parts. That's kind of where I was at with Kenneth Grant, where I just didn't see a consistently impactful player. But he's not that far down your list. I mean, he's DT5. He's DT5, but he's being. I think it goes with how he's being talked about. Yeah.

Him being talked about as a top 15 pick, top 20 pick. Yeah. That's rich for me. I'd feel much better taking that gamble when you get into the second round. So what's the downside case here? What he's, you know, he's just a first down player?

Yes. Downside is that he's a run player only. And it's kind of like the conversation of the Jordan Davis where it's like, okay, like he's guys flashes as a dominant run defender, but not a consistently dominant run defender. So what is the value here?

Okay. Before we get to a bit of an Eagles conversation, actually since the Eagles just released Miles Sanders, there you go. We have a super chat from Ryan. The Eagles just released. I'm sorry, the Panthers, the Panthers just released. Former Eagles running back, Miles Sanders. Brian Madden wants to know your thoughts on C.J. West, the Indiana defensive tackle. Yeah, I haven't finished his tape yet, but saw him at the Shrine Bowl.

I thought he was one of the better players down there during the week of practice. Obviously, he had a good workout, you know, playing for Indiana this year. this was a guy that made a lot of impact on that defensive front. I'm pulling up his body type just so I've got that. But I think when you're looking at his overall skill set to me, and after seeing him in person, I thought that he'd be more of a rotational type. Yeah, 6-1-316.

With 31.5 inch arm, so that a severe lack of length was pretty productive. You're talking about a little bit of an older player, fifth year senior, had 8 TFLs, only two sacks this past year, only two sacks last year playing for Kent State. transferred in from the Mac. But he graded out extremely well as a run defender. The pressure

numbers, win rate numbers were average. So I think to me, you're looking at a high floor rotational player. That's kind of how I eyeballed him at the shrine, but I'll finish up the report here in the coming weeks. All right. The Eagles conversation I want to have with you. Okay. Just a quick one because we're going to get to some

woodpeckety Rathers in a little bit. Now that the Eagles have shipped out, C.J. Garner Johnson. Okay. You know, Sidney Brown could be the starting safety next read Blankenship. Maybe they will add somebody in for agency, but all of a sudden now, safety becomes an early round possibility when it probably wasn't before. What should Eagles fans know?

And probably the case that Malachi Starks and Nick Eamon Wari are out of their range at 32. I've already gotten people in my mention saying, Eman Worry at 32, Malikin, Wari at 32 would be very surprising. I just don't think he's going to be there. I personally don't think Malachi Starks is going to be there either. Me personally, how I view it. Now, that said, I didn't anticipate Brian Branch falling into the second round.

We've seen guys that are modest size, modest athleticism fall. But those guys that have fallen have played well. So, you know, will the NFL learn from that or not? Malachi Stark is a top 15 player in the class when it comes to like just watching him on field, the impact that he has. Daniel Jeremiah, who maybe knew something, mocked him to the Eagles in his last mock draft. He was plugging in then. Yeah, so Jeremiah.

mocked Malachi Starks to the Eagles. I think it was the week before the combine or the week of the combine, whatever it was. But those are the top two safeties. Those are two round one players. After that, it's actually, it's a decent safety class. It's not a great group. It's not a terrible group. The two other players that I have with like rock solid starting grades right now would be Jonas Sanker from Virginia and Xavier Watts from Notre Dame. I think both guys have legitimate starting capability. I'm pulling up the numbers on both guys right now. Jonas Sanker, 6 foot 206, 32 and a quarter inch arm. So he's got pretty good size across the board. I yeah, so let me just pull up my report on him real quick. Three-year starter at safety, fluid athlete,

interchangeable skill set. Not a killer downhill as a run defender, but very reliable tackler, very sound with his angles and his insert points and the run fit. In coverage, he can match up against tight ends and against bigger receivers without peril, and he has excellent top-down traits from depth. So when I say top-down traits, a guy that plays in the deep part of the field and attacking downhill, whether that's in coverage or in the run game, he does that very, very well. the Eagles playing a split high safety scheme, as well as many other teams in football, that

will cater really well to that kind of a scheme, because that's how he's going to be used. I wish he was a little bit more of a ball hawk, just found the ball a little bit more, but I just thought he was a rock-solid player. You know, this would be a low-hanging fruit player because he also went to Virginia, but a little bit bigger version of Rodney McLeod. Okay. You know, I think that's a fair comparison kind of thing for Sanker. And then Xavier Watts at Notre Dame.

This is the guy I've been hearing about from people in that building for a couple years. Just under six foot, 204 pounds. A lot of production. It's the opposite of Sanker where this guy got his hands on a lot of footballs. He led the country in interceptions in 2023 with seven, came back with six more and a touchdown. This past year has been a two-time All-American. So this is a guy that's got those ball hawking tendencies. The tackling isn't a huge issue,

but it's definitely a weaker point of his game. He's not as consistent at Sanker. So that's something that he will definitely need to clean up. But I didn't think it was anything prohibitive. I didn't look at it and say like, oh, man, he can't play. You can't play this guy. I just thought that it was like, okay, that's something he will need to clean up.

Not a great athlete, a good athlete, maybe above average. You know, you're getting into like the tearing there. But I think at the end of the day, he looks like a starting safe. Which of those two, Sanker or Watts, would you say, is a better Vic Fangio fit? Honestly, I think both would fit, but probably Sanker, just because I think he's probably a little bit more reliable, whereas Watts is a little bit more volatile on the field.

Both guys, everything I've heard off the field has been awesome. I know that Watts was a captain, you know, so I think both guys stand out. Well, the other name to throw in there would be Billy Bowman. He's probably more day three pick from Oklahoma. He's just extremely small. you're talking under 510, 192 pounds, really short arms, really tiny hands, just across the board, very, very small at the safety spot.

But he's really instinctive, long-time captain, all the Oklahoma kids, all rave about him, good athlete, pretty good week at the senior ball. Like, he's just here checking all the boxes with him outside of the size. He's fooling the quarterback. Can't even see him. That's, you know, he's got that in his pocket. I actually, I compared him to Calendre Diggs.

And Diggs was, he was a corner, but they're very, very, very, similar size and I think the movement and the the ferocity that they play with is similar. You compared them to Tinkerbell. Yeah, I compared him to one of the seven dwarfs. Malachi Stark's just to circle back would be like a perfect fit for Fangio? Yes. Like plug and play, all the Georgia guys, everybody knows that, but also just in terms of

reliability, you think that would be like as home run of a pick as the egos could possibly get. Yeah, I think that if he were to be available, that would be a really good fit. I mean, Amin Warre would be great too. I just find it hard to believe that 6.3, 220 that runs that way is going to last to that point. But again, I feel that way about Starks. But if you told me Brian Branch was going to make it to that far in the draft, I would have told you were crazy a couple years ago. All right.

I got some woodpecker-y-ratherers for you. Love it. We're going to start with a couple position ones, and then I want to put you in the GM seat for a couple of teams after that. Okay. So first we're going to do... I have not heard any of these, by the way. This is all fresh.

We're going to start with running back. Good running back class, obviously. Great running back class. Should you tee up what Woodpecker you rather is for people that may not have? It's basically would you rather, just with a bird pun. It's pretty self-explanatory. I feel like you can understand it.

Okay. If you're a team looking for a running back, would picker you rather. Any running back? Yes. Well, I'm going to give you three. Oh, okay, got. Okay.

So would would pecker you rather use a mid to late first round pick on Omari and Hampton? Yeah. Would you rather use a second round? pick on Trevion Henderson or would you rather use a third round pick on Caleb Johnson? So this is- Now those are where those guys went in your mock draft. It doesn't reflect your rankings.

So I think you might be leaning one way here, but of those three, I guess rank the rank how much you like those options. I like all three players. And I do think that all three players will be able to find a role in the NFL. Henderson is the guy where there's a little bit beauty in the eye, the beholder. Some teams may view him as, oh, man, like we can. get him in and he could be our Jemir Gibbs and he would be electric and other other people might look at him and say oh like he's more of a compliment and you know

might never be more than rob into somebody else's Batman right I think that when you're looking at the way that Henderson can be used where his best season came in college where you know they bought in Quinn shot Judkins this past year and that's when he was really able to stay healthy Henderson I guess bang for buck I want to say Caleb Johnson around three. I love O'Marion Hampton, though. So you might go Caleb Johnson O'Marion Hampton, Trevion Henderson? I think I think that's how I would stack it. What do you love about Caleb Johnson? I think you're just talking in terms of the height, weight, speed element of his game. He's, I think he's reminiscent of DeMarco Murray and his prime, just in terms of a big, sturdy, broad

runner, straight line athlete that you get from A to B, but reads things out well from a zone blocking game standpoint, hits his landmarks well, and gap schemes can get downhill. He's tough to get down one-on-one, checks the box in terms of past game from a receiving standpoint and from a past pro standpoint, things to clean up there, but enough there that I still feel that he could be a lead dog in a backfield. I will say, Hampton is the better player, but I think that in terms of like round one value versus round three, I think you're probably getting more ROI from Caleb Johnson. Okay, let's go to wide receiver. Okay. All right, Ted Tyroa and McMillan in the first round, you're a wide receiver three.

Jalen Noel in the second round, your wide receiver six, or the guy we already talked about, Isaiah Bond in the third round, take the upside swing, your wide receiver nine. If you need a wide receiver, which bet would you prefer to make? I think I'm going to go with Jalen Noel in round two, just because to me, I think that that's your best bet

to be able to get, to get quality reps out of at that level, of investment. I do like Temeck. I like Tataro McMillan, but I do think that there's not as much boombust to some of the other guys we've talked about, but in terms of living up to what that perceived draft slot could be, I could see that being an issue. Whereas with Noel, you know, 510, 194 pounds, been more of a slot guy over the course of his career, but I think he's a three-level threat. He's a really competitive player. He's a good route

runner. Most of his usage came underneath, but whenever he's been targeted downfield, he's been really efficient and effective at tracking those deep balls and, you know, and being that kind of a guy over the top. And just a fearless mindset consistently shows up on film, working down the field or over the middle. He's a guy that I would just bet on. I feel pretty good about him. Entering the NFL, again, when you talk about like the technical proficiency as a route runner, the competitiveness and the athleticism, he ran 4-3, you know, in Indianapolis. I don't know if I quite expected that. And then good other, all the rest of his tests across the board were also a pretty good mark. So for me, give me Jalen Newell.

And with McMillan, you're just worried about not quite explosive enough as you would like for a top 20 wide receiver? Yes, I think the big question is like the top end speed, the overall athleticism at 6'4, just about 220 pounds. Didn't test at all at the combine by choice. We'll see if he does decide to do anything at the pro day. But to me that that's a player where he might get shoehorned to being like outside the numbers only. Can he separate like those kind of questions. Okay. Let's do, you're a GM now.

I think these are a little bit more fun because these are sort of the conversations that they would have in their rooms as they're planning their draft process, right? So you are Andrew Barry. Okay. Now that I have a team, this is, I like these more. Congratulations, you are,

you just got the Miles Garrett extension. Okay, thank you. You have that done. You have an early pick. Would you rather, first and second round, come out with Abdul Carter. Okay. And a Mecca Egbuka.

Right. or Travis Hunter and James Pierce, Jr. So you're going wide receiver edge both ways. Would you rather have Abdul Carter and Egbuka or Travis Hunter and James Pierce Jr.? I'd rather have Abdul Carter and Emeka, Egbuka. I think when you're looking at Carter, I mean, clearly obviously,

a physical marvel, what he can do off the edge is really, really impressive, pairing him with Miles Garrett. I actually, I wrote when I had Carter going to the Browns in that mock draft. You know, Jim Schwartz has really kind of developed his double A gap, sugar in the A gap pressure package. Abdul Carter would be a nightmare in those kind of looks standing over the center. And I think he could be really effective at that.

So I was kind of a dream casting there a little bit. But I think that could be very fun. But just being able to run him alongside Miles Garrett, I think, would be very tough for opposing offenses to deal with on a weekly basis. And then Ibuka is just rock solid, just a pro receiver. You saw that early on, like his sophomore film. You just saw like this guy's going to be in the NFL and just going to be a really good pro. And so, yeah, I would say give me those two.

Okay. You think, I mean, that's, you know, Abdul Carter and Miles Garrett. It's a good place to start. Yeah. Especially if you don't have a good quarterback. Andrew Berry made some waves at the combine when he talked about Travis Hunter because he said that, we view him as a receiver first. And the actually, I enjoyed the reasoning behind it.

He said, look, his superpower is his ball skills and, you know, getting the ball in his hands and that playmaking ability, you could do, would, you rather do that 15 times a year or would you rather do it 100 times a year yeah well that's a that's a pretty I kind of like that line of thinking I still like it more as a corner but I likes that line of thinking I almost feel like the specificness with which he's describing that prospect makes me think he's less likely to take it right yeah I agree with that yes and there's also all the smoke about them and taking a quarterback that high depending on which insider you believe you know you might believe that to be true okay next up you are James Gladstone okay

Congratulations on your bar mitzvah. You're finally becoming a man. I'm younger, yep. You have the fifth overall pick for the Jacksonville Jaguars. Would you rather come out of it with LSU offensive lineman Will Campbell, as you have in your mock draft? And Tyler Williams or Jonah? Wait, and who? Tyler Williams?

Is that what I have here? Tyleek Williams? Tyleek Williams. You know what? It's the auto-correct. Oh, see. You know what the note? It's, it is the note app on the Mac.

always just treacherous with its it's so forceful with the auto-correct Google Docs is not doing that it's just underlining it and suggesting a change the notes app is just doing it without asking sorry Tyleek Williams so I was right who is Tyler Williams what is Tyler Williams like I had to look up what am I doing Will Campbell and Tyler Williams or Jonah Savinaia Savonaiia Savonaiia and Mason Graham all right so Mason Graham would be the first right instead of Will Campbell you're taking Mason gram and five. This is a good one. I think I'd rather go Will campbell and Tileak Williams. Williams is a little bit of it. He's he would fit into the boom bus prospect. The guy that I wrote that he reminded me of was actually a

former Ohio State player in Jonathan Hankins. Hankins was a big like 330 pound nose tackle with really light feet who had really good flashes and he's he had he carved out a really long career in the NFL. I could see that with Tileak Williams who didn't really look the part of a like big time recruit or a big time draft prospect until this year. It was kind of a flash player before that, so really turned it on in his final year on campus. Obviously, they go on the national championship run. So I think I would take the swing there with him in round two.

Pair that with Will Campbell, who's rock solid in round one. I really like Mason Graham, but I would say if I'm picking between Graham and Campbell, give me Campbell, and then I'd rather take the swing on Tyleek Williams over the high floor player in Savinae, the tackle guard from Arizona in round two. I need to issue with Moa Coppo as well.

It's not the notes app. It's the text edit. Yeah, I've been using text edit a lot. Text edit, yes. For my, my,

uh, transcriptions. There's got to be a, much nicer than mine. There's got to be a setting where I can... Do you have a different version in me? I don't think so. I mean,

look at mine, mine looks like I'm reading code at Jurassic Park. Yeah, right. It's like you're just got code there. Uh, yeah, Helveticaa regular 12. Yeah,

what am I doing here? All right. Okay. All right. All right. All right. Now you are John Lynch. numerous family members to work in the front office.

Yeah, congratulations on all the Kubiaks. And Shanahan's and lynches. Now you have them taking Walter Nolan in your recent mock draft. I'm sticking with Walter Nolan here. Walter Nolan and Virginia Tech wide receiver Jalen Lane. Okay, two players I really like. Okay, actually that is who you have them taking in the second round. So that is your, that's what you have.

Or getting a little bit interesting. Okay. Tyler Warren in the first round. So to pair with George Kittle and maybe replace him moving on. And replace Kyle Hughes-check. Right. And Jordan Birch is taking over as the defensive tackle. That Tyler Warren runs sneaky.

Birch. All right. Birch definitely fits. That's a really good pick. Birch definitely fits. If memory serves without looking, there are connections on the San Francisco 49er staff in Oregon. And he definitely fits the body type of what we've seen with Robert Sala,

defensive linemen, some of those big, powerful, like, I think of John Franklin Myers and some of the other guys they had in New York. that's a good these are I could definitely see this scenario I'm going to go with the one that I had okay I'm going to let you borrow Tyler Warren to the Niners as a as a as a good splash that is a sneaky like surprise pick uh in round one they're replacing it's also debo two like yeah this is this is the new offensive weapon that they needed oh man imagine all the things that he could

do with new death line I like that that's that's fun because Tyler Warren is a guy that they moved all around the formation at Penn State. I mean, they were giving them quarterback snaps. They were doing all kinds of fun stuff with him. So I would imagine that Kyle Shannahan would have fun with a player like that. We have a super chat from Fresh Prince who says Fran. I know you do some analysis on the drafting history of the GMs. This is a good question.

Do you have a GM or a team that typically matches up with how you would do things if you are a GM? Like this question? None that come to mind. There's one that comes from mind from the past, actually. past, yeah. Tennessee there was like a two or three-year stretch they were drafting a lot of players that I liked.

It just so happened a lot of those players that I liked did not work out. You know, it was like the Corey Davis and Tewan Taylor's. That was, yeah, that was a while ago. Yeah, we were talking a while back. It's a good question, though. Yeah, it's a good question. You know, look, I think that

here's my take on it. There's not one way to skin a cat, right? There's a lot of different ways that teams can find success. I am a big believer in like, all right, like this is our process. We're going to stick to our process. Whatever your thresholds are, hey, you know what? We're going to be, we're going to focus in.

This is the aisle we're going to shop in. We're going to major in, you know, Power 5 kids with high athletic traits, underclass, and we're going to lean that way. Or, hey, we're going to try and find the margins on guys that kind of slip through the cracks. And, you know, we're going to stand fast on guys with high character. And, you know, whatever, whatever it is, I appreciate it. the decision makers that do have that identity. Maybe it's just because I'm like,

I like nerd out on that part of it. And I don't even know if that's even the right way that necessarily go about it, but I do appreciate that. Okay. I'm all over the place there. That's fine. It's really reasonable. All right.

Two more for you. Okay. You're John Schneider. Congratulations on Sam Darnold. Thank you. But you need to protect this quarterback. You haven't done a good enough job protecting the quarterback. A lot of picks. A lot of picks now.

Do you double down on the offensive lines? and go Josh Simmons in round one and Tate Ratledge in round two, tackle guard, or he's a little spicy. Oh, okay. He falls.

You take Shador Sanders. Okay. And then you also draft Marcus M.bo. Marcus M. Bo. Marcus M. Bo. That's right. You should know this. In the second round,

get yourself a tackle. I think I would go to the O line. Just because we did make a decent commitment to Darnold. I do think that it's big enough commitment that you're probably not looking to add a first round quarterback. Now, if someone tickles your fancy in round two, round three, a Jalen Milrow or a Jackson Dart or a Tyler Shuck, like one of those guys you get to day two or a round four

and one of those guys fell to you, then maybe. But I think round one at quarterback after just giving that money to Donald, probably not the best use of resources. That would be my take on it. So I would go with the two linemen. Okay. All right, I'm going to give you an Eagles one. Okay.

Let's make it, Howie Roseman. All right. Congratulations on how well the beer can has healed on your forehead and also the Super Bowl. I was going to say, much less that. Let's go, Zach's boy, BC's Donovan Azaraku. Asaraku. We've settled it. Donovan Azaraku in the first round and Mason Taylor in the second round.

You get the LSU tied down. So Azaraku and Mason Taylor. Or let's say Malachi Stark falls. Maybe this is going to make it too obvious for you. Let's do a different one then. Okay. Who's a tackle who could go there instead? A tackle who could be there.

I mean, Ariante Ursary. Yeah. We've talked a lot about him. We've talked a lot about him. Kelvin Banks. Okay. Tackle, left tackle from Texas. Okay.

Thought people think he could go earlier than that. Probably, probably will go earlier than that. Josh, let's say Josh Simmons. Okay, because of the injury. That's a good one. And that's almost like, that's a perfect one for the Eagles. Let's do that. Let's do, let's say Josh Simmons.

and Derek Harmon. Okay. So you go, you go defensive tacklers. Hmm. I think if we're going based solely off need. You shouldn't be going based on.

I know. So that's what I was going to say. If you're going both, if you're just going off need, you would say it's Ezoraco and Mason Taylor. Yeah. But if I'm going off the evaluations, I would go Simmons and Harmon.

Simmons does feel like the perfect Eagles pick. Yeah. He's played. both tackle spots in his career, started a right tackle at San Diego State, transferred to Ohio State, moved to left tackle, was playing his best football this year, got hurt, Torres-Peteller in practice, or no, in the Oregon game, sorry, going up against Derek Harmon.

And so Torres-Peteller out for the year. We've already talked about with NCOB Dean. Patelor is a very tricky injury, so what is he going to look like coming off that? But the traits are impressive there, so a guy that you could develop and see if you can turn him into a starting tackle in the NFL. Then Derek Harmon, late bloomer, was a little bit heavy and overweight at Michigan State. This was self-described by him. Transferred to Oregon, kind of turned it on and cut a lot of weight and had his best year.

And then parlayed that into being a likely top 50 selection. Okay. Which he would fall further than that in this scenario. All right. Super chat from Jay, who is a Ohio State fan, a Philly-based Ohio State fan. A lot of those. He wants you to rank these six Buckeyes in terms of their likelihood to be a on the Eagles.

You got JT. Tuimolo-O-Wau. Tu-imolo-W. So I was having a lot of trouble. When we did the mock draft, and Julia can attest to this, I could not get his name out of my mouth. And I've got, I've had the pronunciation right in my guide for two years,

on my notes for two years, could not get, it's so imperative that you do the Molo-O-W. You have to, you have to really accentuate on the mo. Or else you can't, there's too many syllables. Okay.

You have to go Tui-Molo-O-W. To-Molo. Yes. Okay. All right. JT. Tuimolo Al. Tileak, not Tyler Williams. Jack Sawyer.

Who is Simon? Josh Simon. Not Josh Simon. That's your boy. The tight end. The tight end from Carolina. Oh, yeah. My guy. He's the line, but the offball line. Miles Simon.

No. Cody. Thank you. Cody Simon. Cody Simon. Yes. Denzel Burke, the corner. Yeah. And then who was Ransom? Lathen Ransom. He's the safety.

I was going to say from Ohio State. Okay. Now, you already did mock Tuimoloao. Yes. To the Eagles, so that's a potential fit in the second round. All right. So I got to power rank these in order. Eagles likely.

Most likely, it's the land on the Eagles. Let's put Tuimolo out at the top. See, like, Julia, I'm saying it's so much better every time this time than I was. You like a lot. The mock draft. All right, so Tuolomolo at the top. I guess you have to go Tileak Williams. at two.

Would be a potential second round pick? Yeah. Good fit. Yep. Inside outside versatility, right? Yeah. And definitely a guy that, you know, kind of fits that, uh, fits that mold of an interior player.

Um, you think they're a Sawyer team? No. Probably not, right? So I think just so, I think with Sawyer, you're just missing those, those high end athletic traits. Like he's got the dog mentality aspect of it down, but I don't think that he's got like those, those traits that the scouting staff and that, that Howie would, would trend

towards. I could be wrong there, but I don't know that Sawyer would be there. Denzel Burke is interesting. I think he's a day two corner. I thought he had round one talent early on. It's kind of like watching him. He's a very talented player, a little bit up and down this past year, but Denzel Burke's a good player. Probably goes a little higher than, I guess ultimately it comes down to the, you know, would they take it with, yeah. I feel like that would be a stretch, a second round corner. Yes. But not impossible. All right. So then let's go this. Let's go with this. Let's go. Simmons was on that list, right?

No, not on the list. All right, not on list. Oh, it was good. Yeah, this is all defensive players. All right, so let's go. JTT. Yep, Toouimo-Lowow, Tileak Williams. Let's go with Cody Simon,

just because he's a day three linebacker. Yeah, that would be a reasonable thing for them to do. After that, let's go Denzel Burke, just because maybe he's best player available type of situation. Then Lathen Ransom, because you were talking about late-round safety. And then Jack Sawyer at the end. Okay. Okay, that's fair?

Good answer. Okay. Anything else you want to talk about? We got a question that just came in from the Discord. Okay. San Diego P.HOLA. Also, if you're a diehard member. So not only do you get access to all of friends' goodies,

but you get to just ask him questions and ping him in the middle of a show. Right. All right. Three-part question. He actually says it doesn't necessarily need to be read on air, but here we are. All right, first part. How does it feel when your valuation of a player is way different from other analysts. Do you revisit prospects if they start to creep up other analysts or consensus

big boards? And he put in parentheses, thinking about Ezoraku being touted as a first rounder and you've got him as nothing special. Third or fourth round. So it's a good question. Yeah, good question. I am very big on trying to stick to my guns. I do the best I can with trying to stick to my guns. Obviously, I don't think I know everything, but I've done this long enough now where, you know, I wasn't putting it out publicly where I'm like, oh, like, maybe I'm just, maybe I'm just wrong on this player. I'd rather be wrong on a guy

because I stuck to my guns than be wrong because I didn't stick to my guns. Yeah, of the guy. Of course. Like, I should have stuck to it. So, so yeah, I do try and make sure that, because I always, especially because I'm friends with a lot of people in the business,

I'm always reading other people. You know, you're trying to read other people's work and try and give them support, you know, and they'll always ask for feedback, that kind of thing. So I'm always looking at other people's boards and their work that they put out. But it's fine to disagree.

Here's my question. Do you feel differently if you are abnormally high on a guy versus if you are as an outlier low player? Good one. What is everybody else missing? What am I missing? That's a good question. Because there's plenty of examples in both.

Yeah. I am more worried when it's the guy I'm low on, because it's like, okay, like, what am I missing here? Like, Joday Barron, corner from Texas, right? I've watched him four separate occasions, and I just don't see it. But I hear analysts, like, oh, like, Chicago Bears a 10. And I'm like, my, like, mind-blown for me. And I'm like, I got, I got to watch him again.

I just got, I got to do it again. Because I got to be missed, there's got to be something I'm missing here. That is more the case. Or as opposed to when I watch it, I'm like, man, like, I see it. This guy looks like a first. round player and nobody else has in there. I'm like, all right, well, maybe I just saw something. I'm still worrying about it, but

it's much more severe the other way. Plus, I imagine it takes more conviction to really raise a guy than to lower a guy. Yes. You really feel good about the evaluation if you're pushing him up your board. Yes, I agree. Okay, what were the other parts of his question?

Other parts of the question. How many turkeys do you give to tape, senior ball, combined measurables, pro days, with regards to weighing your opinion of a player. All right, tape, tape, senior bowl, senior ball, combined measurable, and I guess pro day,

it's same, so we'll say like, combine slash pro day. It was combined slash memorables, or measurables, and then pro days is a separate thing, but I think we should, let's combine combine combine. I'm going to guess for you. Yeah.

I'm going to go, I'm going to go 80 tape. Yes, that's the exact number I had, yep. 11 senior bowl 9 combine measurements No it's the other way And it's it's probably like 12 12 combine yeah 12 we'll say 12 combine Measurables

That even might be low so maybe it's like 75 tape And like 17 17 combine Okay and then eight Is that the number? Yeah yeah that's the number yeah And then eight for a senior bowl 75 17 yeah that makes sense to me The big thing that is so important for me, for Senior Bowl and for Combine,

is this is my chance to see them up close. Yeah. Like, this is my chance to see the quarterbacks. I don't go to pro days. I don't visit campuses. I don't go to games live for the most part. Like, so that's my chance to be able to see guys up close where, you know, I don't have that opportunity.

So that is the value I get from that. And that can be different for some positions, you know, that's more important for a quarterback than it is for a left guard. But, yeah, that's the, I think I actually, before, but are there memories that you have of anybody good or bad, who your opinion changed on just by seeing their body type in person?

I have it's literally all the time. Yeah, like yearly. And there was just some guys too, like, and it is panned out positively and negatively. I'm trying to remember the name of the kid from a few years ago. Oklahoma had a defensive tackle at the senior ball who the Browns took in like the four-th round. I loved him. He was dominant at the senior bowl.

But not only that, that was the year where it rained like all week and there was the one day it was the most miserable weather I've ever sat in in Mobile where it was like, I don't know if you remember,

I bought towels from the hotel room. And I'm sitting, so I'm sitting on a towel, they got towels over my own. Yeah, it was awful. And I was terrible. Didn't move for three hours, just like sat there.

And this guy was just. He was bringing so much juice? He had so much juice. And he had off-field stuff. Yeah, I mean, it turned out to not be. A good bet. Yeah, right. But there are guys

were just like, man, like, yeah, like, I want that guy on my team, right? Like, you want, you want that guy. But then there are also guys where you just see them up close, like, Azaraku is a good example where, and this was more, this is, I guess this isn't as much a, like, seeing him live. This was more like getting the official measurement type of thing. But seeing him come in with, like, the longer arms than I expected, because he looked at it to me, like, this guy's more of a compact frame. I'm like, all right, like, he's got pretty good length. He's showing that he can add a little bit more weight. There's their size here to be able to work with. I think that there's a lot to like with Azaraku. Oladayo from UCLA, another one from this year. Thank you for

watching on Fast. We appreciate that. And you know what? It's probably going to be just about the end of this episode. The few seconds that are left, you can check out on all-P-Hly.com. So tell us tease what is coming out this week for the die-heartes. First big board is coming out. Ooh, baby. Yeah. I was just talking with Kevin this morning. So yeah, the first big board is going to do a top 100. I've already written the preface, preface. Yeah. Preface.

Right. I've already written the preface on it because that was like what I thought that would take the most work. It's just basically teeing up how I put my board together. You know, what the things that come into play. Why is it going to look a lot different than any other board that you see? So yeah. So I went through that.

And the big thing with that is I hate rankings. But obviously it's part of it. It's part of what you have to do. I'm much more, for me, it's much more like read the player. And the example I give is, you know, back in 2020, I had Jalen Rager graded higher than CD Lam. I had the same, they had the same tier, the same grade, but I had Rager slightly ahead.

When I go back and I read my report of CD Lamb, it's exactly like CDLAM is exactly the player I thought. It's just that I missed on Jalen Rager. Yeah. So I don't look at that as a miss on CDLAM. You might look at rankings, be like, oh, you were low on CDLAM. Sure.

So that's why like I hate rankings because they can color or the way it's kind of perceived. I loved CD Lamb. I just also happened to love Jalen Rager and I missed on Jalen Rager, right? So you couldn't have thought of an example that made you look better. Look, if I want to paint, if I want to try and show the whole picture, I'm not going to say every single, I'm not going to take a victory lap on every Traveas White, you know, so.

So, yeah. Listen, I dated Charles Manson. It's not that big of a deal. You miss on some. You win some, you lose some. But yeah. So to me, I just wanted to kind of tee up, like, this is why the board looks the way it does. We can talk about it next week in terms of like positional value and things of that nature.

But it's going to be, there's going to be two aspects of it. There's the vertical board that's more like your typical like big board, top 100, you know, that kind of thing. But then there's also, and this is what I placed the most value in is the horizontal board. So both versions will be there for you to be able to take in in this exercise. I look forward to it. Yeah. I look forward to next week's episode. of the PHOI draft show with Fran Duffy.

Before we go, Fran, people want to know where is that hoodie from? We had the emergency pond for C.J. Gardner-Johnson. People were talking about it then. You've worn it before. People love this hoodie.

I have two versions of this hoodie. I have this one and I have a gray one. So I think this is the first time I've worn the green one here. There's one of those lightweight hoodies. It's lightweight hoodie. Yeah, so this is like t-shirt material. I want to say it's...

Dolchan, Cabana. I mean, you might go to read the tag better than me. I want to say it's... That might be an old Navy. But I'm not 100%. Nice. Yeah. Meg got these for me.

So. Very handsome. Thank you. Thanks for the chat. All right. That'll do it for this episode of the PHOY draft show with Fran Duffy. If you are in the chat watching live, you have Eagles questions. Guess what?

We're back at 2 o'clock. The P.H.O.I. Eagle show with Zach Berman joining us as well. We also talked about the C.J. Garner Johnson Trade for about 15 minutes. You can watch that video to pass the time until you join us again. And listen, if there's news before then, we might fire up another emergency pod. busy day, busy week here at PHY. That's what it's all about.

It's very exciting. Good stuff. This is where the action happens. For Fran Duffy and Julia, we thank you for watching and listening. We will talk to you in like six seconds. And as always, we love you.