PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - The Eagles 26: Brian Dawkins & A Foundation Of Defensive Excellence Since 2000 | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

It's a summer of Eagles celebration as we highlight the greatest players since 2000, from the era of Brian Dawkins, Troy Vincent and Hugh Douglas to Asante Samuel and Trent Cole's dominance to Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham paving the way for Zack Baun, Cooper DeJean and Quinyon Mitchell. Join Anthony Gargano, Fran Duffy, ESPN's Tim McManus and Bo Wulf for a fun conversation about the best defensive Eagles this century.    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome to a very special edition of the PHOI Eagles show live from the Xfinity Den and presented by Ashley. We're here at a special location. We got some special friends here. We got CUS. We got CUS. We got ESPN's Tim McMahon. And what are we going to do today? We are going to be talking, just having a beer, debating, trying to rank the top 26 Eagles of the century.

Cuzz, I know you're excited. I can see you right of your hand. love it. This frame right here? Fantastic. Awesome. I'm so excited. He got.

It's good to see you, brother. Amen. It's been a while. Yeah. This is my first time in these palatial studios. I'm very impressed. Oh. I happen to have you here.

Yeah, thank you for having it. Of course. And Fran, you've done the work here. You put in what you've ranked one through 63. One through 63. I think that, 63 players in consideration. Okay. And what's interesting about it is like the first part of the day of the

century. Like that's my high school years. Like I'm my fandom. Right. You're leading into the heart. There's some emotion there. But then there's also like, all right, then the part of when I started working and then working for the team. And so it's interesting exercise. Well, there's a lot of big picture conversations to have here. A lot of difficult things. How do you rank, you know, how do you value a Super Bowl guy versus a guy who didn't make a Super Bowl? How do you value a superstar for two seasons versus a guy who was a stalwart franchise stalwart for nine, ten years? We'll get into all of that. we're going to do this position by position.

And I think because this is Philadelphia, because we've got to start with the defense. I love it. I love it about fright, Siri. Yeah. What? Give me your vision, your pride. So here's what I'm thinking. Now, we are, this is sort of our, this is our initial foray into the conversation.

I think from this, we will build out the list and unveil it over the course of the summer. But yeah, I am open to being moved here. Like, do we, do we care more about, you know, Brandon Graham being a part of three Super Bowls and making the play that we will all remember the most important play in franchise history or do you care more about an AJ Brown who has four fantastic seasons

or a Sequin Barclay who has the best season probably of all time in the franchise, right? I think there's a lot of big picture conversations. I'm open, what do you think about as you think about ranking these guys? Well, I do think Mr. Eagles should be part. Yeah. We're glad can the players

is when he's seasons. Yes, right? So, Sequan's giant ears are irrelevant. Doesn't cast. It has to be here. So in the sense with D.G, that he has to be on that. For sure.

And I think we'll sort of work our way about, you know. Like, that has to guess. You're history of eagle. Oh, yeah. To meet those three. Okay. I'm open to hearing it. Let's get into it quickly.

Go ahead. All right. B.G. . Yep. Elsie. Yep. Oh, yes.

I think that's right. I think that's right. I think about who shake this franchise, who's been a part of this guy? Who do we think of the Mr. Eagle? I think those three guys are. I think that's right. And I think if you wanted to,

let's take the quarterbacks out because I think where you rank the quarterbacks is a different question. Those three guys, Lane. I was going to say Lane 2. And maybe Jason Peters are like the five core non-quarterbacks.

from this decade. And then you sort of think about like, okay, Kelsey, for instance, BG, those guys, both the longevity, they only play for the Eagles, Mr. Eagle, but the flip side is, was either of them ever the best player on the team? I don't know, right? And that's a, it's a difficult question to part. I found myself contradicting myself, a hundred times over in this one, because sometimes I'm very,

valuing the longevity that a player had in Philly, but sometimes there's a player that comes in and shoots through like a meteor that had such an impact during a brief time in Philly that you just can't leave him off the list. Yes. And then you get into sort of how much does the departure change the way you think about them? I mean, let's talk about defensive end because let's start there. We're talking about BG. But like you think about Sequin, you think about A.J. Brown,

Fran, you and I were talking Asan Reddix, 20-22 season is kind of like one of those seasons. 16 sacks. Does that get him into the top 26? I think he's right on the bubble. I doubt so too.

What do you think, Fran? Did he make your list? He did not make my top 26. He did make my top 30. I mean, this is a guy that in two years, made two Pro Bowls. He finished with 27 sacks in those two seasons. Yeah, 27 sacks tied for,

he had 16 sacks in that first season, 11 in the second one. To me, I think when you're looking at what Reddick brought to the table, I mean, he was one of the best players on that defense that went to a Super Bowl. Obviously, you know, you look at what happened in the Super Bowl, the pass rush was not a factor. You get into the sod father, the legend of that game. He wins. Maybe he's viewed differently. Maybe who knows how that path unfolds from, you know,

maybe he gets rewarded the same way that Seekwan got rewarded after that season. So, you know, I think that when you look at Redick, he is, you know, he is one of those cases where he burned, he burned bright, but he burned out fast here in Philadelphia, where you look at, AJ Brown's longer runway. Terrell Owens is probably the pinnacle of that, right?

Where it's just one in one season and change. But I think when you look at Reddick, the talent and the impact, I mean, he won them the NSC title game by knocking out Brock Party at the first quarter of the game. I think lasting legacy. Yeah. But we still talk of the time of city.

Yeah. I roll. Yep. Right, I guess. He was completely dying out. It's amazing. It's starting to be able to. Yes. And his legacy, the dawn,

obviously probably like negative, but he had a lasting influence in the franchise. I would say, I would categorize Tio as a player who lifted the franchise to a different level. So when he came here,

it was like, oh, the Eagles can have this too. Right? Like, for such a long time, It was like, all right, they were always, you know, a step below the cowboys. There were teams that had this huge star power. But the Eagles never seemed to, you know, they always seemed to be a step or two below that.

But when Tio came into the fold, it was like, oh, like this franchise is super legit. Right. It's marquee, right? His name was on the marquee. You know, remember the Monday light football? Yeah. Yes. Yep.

Like, he trips into, like, think about pop culture areas, which is, which is. amazing. I still, the burning image of T.L. It didn't happen in regular season. For me, it happened training camp. First day, Briglock in Lehigh, and Andy

was late to practice. Butchie, his old driver and groomed Big Daugh, was driving in the practice and it would snart. So much so that they had to lease and they had to this whole thing to get Andy.

to practice and it was all because of T. I've heard some stories about that. I wasn't yet on the beat. I didn't go up there for training camp that year, but like the crowds that he generated. So we were doing the show then. And we were two hours late to the show because of the track.

It was unbelievable. I mean, and we left early. I mean, it was 8 a.m. I think it was in my car for all this three hours. then was insane. The thing that stood out to me about Tio, though, is that there was all the expectation, right? He met that expectation.

It wasn't like, oh, like, you know, first play of preseason. Deep play, you know, touchdown against the Ravens in the preseason. First came against the Giants, three touchdowns in the debut. Every big opponent, he always seemed to shine. And then obviously the biggest moment in the Super Bowl was at nine for over 120 yards. I mean, just an humble butt next year.

He's out of there. Let's stay here for one second. Because I was in, I was getting with them during that year. I was writing a book. And so I was in, I was on the sidelines, half-time locker rooms,

the meanings, oh, thank. Andy let me be a part of it. I mean, it was very jealous of that. It was, you don't get that kind of access these days. No,

I mean, it was awesome, right? I asked Andy for it, he said, yeah, because you have, there's one stipulation. You can't quote me first.

Because everyone's why I may, And I was like, coach, remember your shit. Imagine that's the hill you die on. Right, right. Deal. All right. No problem. But the rehab with R.

Yeah. Was one of the most amazing stories on that whole game. It was the whole game. There was no way he should have played. And when she did that rehab, I remember reliving it with Rick or a piece I was doing. And, I mean, it was, and I remember we told them every day. It was over his house.

The chambers, yeah, it was the first time I were hearing that. Yeah. It started oxygen therapy. Yeah. And he was, he was an amazing specimen. Like, he did, he quit so much in that rehab. I don't think you'll understand what it would hope to come back from that major. I mean, it's the kind of players that you can't tell the story of Philadelphia Eagles. Right.

I mean, T.O is a team that makes the Super Bowl. The player of the season is T.O. he's going to be on the list. And Andy's like, I didn't think he won't be like. I remember talking to Andy. It was like two weeks late and he was getting ready for that I was down at his office. And two things I said, well, one, what was the difference between in this? You think back to it.

He goes, well, they had 12. We had five. Right? And it was just a great disability. Yeah. And then he said, I. had I known that T.O. would be like this, I would have a bigger part of the game.

Yeah, I would just say, kind of shout at five there, too. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, well, I mean, relative to play comparative radio. You know, I mean, I know any long break, right? So it's like, when he was like, listen, he was, imagine if I knew that Tio would be this good, I would have a bigger part of game plan.

All right, let's try to get back to the edge guys, just because, yeah, yeah, get things moving a little bit. Uh, I think we've all got BG at the top. there. We all agree Trent Cole would be the number two edge rusher here? I think so. And I think you can make a case that Trent Cole is the best eagle of the century who was not a part of any Super Bowl team. I think I'm with that. There were a couple guys that cut up. Yeah. Trent Cole put up some serious numbers. He was a big part of that defense. And there was also like a

very specific energy that Trent Cole brought those crazy eyes. That was amazing. Amazing. So, like, when I think of how the rivalries have died in the NFL, or at least diminished significantly, I always think of Tren Kohl, because when you would walk into the locker room and there was a game against the Giants or the now commanders or the cowboys, he would literally be standing on a chair at his locker stall just like looking around. Like, I'm ready to crush somebody now. And it was a Wednesday. So there was like, yeah, there was a certain about an. It was like this uneven.

Like, you don't know exactly where he's coming from, but like that very much sort of propelled that defense. He was huge. I also think about Trent in something that I think speaks very well to the way that the Eagles have been run this century, which is that the sort of lineage that they have created and the passing things down, you know, that the edge guys now, you know, Nolan and Jalach Hunt

will talk about how much they've learned from BG. Well, BG learned from Trent Cole and he will tell you that everything G passes on, it all started with Trent Cole and Trent probably learned from Hugh Douglas and all this stuff. You can say the same thing, you can track it similarly with the offensive line. But I always think of Trent because the era that I have covered

it started with that Trent and I have sort of seen the trickle-down effect of the way that he taught and JP did this as well, the guys who came after him and then they hand the baton down the line. I think that he's also, we talked earlier about the juxtaposition between the guys that had longevity and the guys that produced at a high level. I mean, he was here 10 seasons,

four times finished in the top 10 in Sacks, four times finished in the top 10 in TFLs, consistently productive, played the way that Eagles fans want them to play, was always a good representative of the organization. To me, like, he is a slam dunk for the top 20. Why do you think it is that he doesn't get that, that same shine as a lot of other people?

79 sacks in 10 years. Yeah, second franchise. Second in the franchise, yeah. I think it's because we said. Yes. It's the Super Bowl thing. Like, Part of those teams that live forever, right?

Yep. You made it to a Super Bowl. And we were a franchise that had been the one. Yeah. You know, for all that time leading up to 2004. It's funny that he, you know, he racked up so many sacks. And yet I feel like Trent sort of taught me the importance of a defenseman playing the run. Yeah.

Like, then, boy, he was so good to run. Unbelievable. He's a great football player, right? Like, great instincts. It kind of understood the ball, like, where the ball. He was smart. Great player. It's great.

Maybe one of the most underrated guys that we'll talk about. Can you name the Eagle who had the season in the 2000s with the most sacks in the season? Jason Bavin. Jason Bavin. Jason Bavin will not be on this list. Jason Bavin had 18-7. Yeah, it's in 2011. I haven't.

Should not play the run. Let's eat the run. And didn't want to. Hugh Douglas. Three straight Pro Bowls, the start of the century, 2001, 2002. Tell us a little bit about Hugh and what he brought to the table because.

Well, I thought, and you want to talk about Jim Johnson's guy. Yeah. Like off the edge. He was such a big-time player. But Hugh was a guy to that I'll never forget. He was the greatest of the lock, right? Like, he was just this energy, ball of energy, fun. Like, I'll never forget being, where the tapping thing was, obviously went bad in 2002.

He walked in, like, he was early. I got there, like, early in the locker. He comes walking in. There's probably about an half hole. And he's like, let's go. Who's right? He's got a sweatshoe on. He's like, who's ready?

Let's do it for the big girls. And it was. Just hit, right? Like, it was so him. And he was just relentless. You remember the 10th of day playoff game? Yeah. I said he was like a stud.

Like, he was just a stud. I love you. Like, if you think about edge guys, you know, I think he's a third, you know, with Trent. Like, I think I would have him third on this list. Yeah. Yeah. Slows to the bubble.

But to me, he makes it. He was inside my top 20. He was third on my list of the edge guys. I will say like his career, like that's when I was like middle school into high school. Right. So like, you know, the team had just gotten good. And you talk about like moments in the postseason that that Trent Cole lacked, like him knocking out Shane Matthews in Chicago. Yeah.

Like he was a big time. He's an awesome player. Awesome player. He was a great light. Yes. He was a great. And again, Jim Johnson loved him. Yeah.

Love it. and he was he also could play to run like he wasn't just like I'm just gonna go attack quarterback he was strong like you know great strike

great flyer man and a great like like he's one of those eagles that I'll always love I'll always have these moments of looking at him he was big time my AOL screen name

I think we all agree that like part of the fabric of the city is a big part of this too sure bad assidore yeah yes adultio the whole thing just got a still has a

talk show in this city very much still present. And I think everybody identifies, you know, Philadelphia Eagle football with it. All right. So I think we've all got Q in. Is there anybody else that anybody wants to raise their hand on and at least have a conversation? You've got, we talked about Redick. Yeah. Connor Barwin, steward of the city, but probably on the outside of any, you know, Vinnie Curry, longevity, but, you know, nice to mention, but probably not going to make the list. What about you for anybody else? I would put, so the other guys I had in there, I had Barwin, he didn't make my top 25, my top 26. Josh Sweat did not make my top 26.

Chris Long did not make my top 26. Chris Long's an issue one because it's like such a short time by, but man, like, yes. Off the field. No question. The locker room impact. How do you think of the 2017 team and not think of Chris Long? Barron, though, like, even though he only spent four seasons in Philly. Yeah.

All of his best production was in Philly. I know he like started with the Texas since it was there. Yeah. Married to City. No question. If you were sure longer, you would be in the common stage. Made an all pro team. It speaks to the strength of this list that the guy like that probably doesn't make the list. 31.5 sacks and 40 TFLs in his career. A quick break. Probably crack these beers. Come back and we'll talk.

Got tears. Tackle, linebacker. Boatwick to Love City. Got some beers. Yeah. Love it. Keep it going. Stay with us on the P.HL.I. Eagles podcast. So much can change in five years. Just think about the topic that we're talking about today, the best 26 Eagles of the 20th century. Five years ago, A.J. Brown wasn't in your life as an Eagles fan. Quinyan Mitchell, Cooper Tijin, Zach Bond, Jalen Hertz was coming off one year as a starter. So much can change in five years. But what you don't need to change is the price of your internet.

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Here's to you guys. That's good. Joining us. Go birds. Let's talk to events and tackles. And, you know, we talked earlier about the guys at the very top. And we neglected to mention Fletcher Cox. And that's a mistake.

He deserves to be in the conversation as a top five, top three. You could go even higher. You want to talk about lasting impact, elite impact, the best player on that 2017. team. Yep. I mean L. D. Letch was the league from the very beginning. Like, yes. I remember his rookie year

and I just remember how dominant, like you can see. And Andy was a big believer. Like, he loved having a tackle he can rely on inside. Make it into funny, early on, he used Trot to kind of blow up the A gap. And he had Hollis,

right? He loved it because he felt like, you know, especially back then when they ran a lot between the taxes. Yes. He was able to, you know, bunch of a lot of scrimmage. And, you know, when you look at Fletch, what's damn? Like, he could rust the quarterback, like from the inside. He was such a great, such an impact, but.

Fifth in franchise history in sacks for a team that's like, consistently had good pass rush, blitzing linebackers, you go back to the 90s for him to finish that high. 12 seasons played 100% of his games, 100% of his snaps here in Philadelphia. he's number four on my list overall. I was going to say that that was an omission on your part, and not including Mount Rushmore. He is a Mr. Eagle.

I think he's, I think so. I mean, I think there's really five of them. Yeah. I think that's but lame. Yeah, no question. The one thing that hurts him is, is that he didn't play, and this is on the media's fault,

but he didn't play the media game. Like some other people played it. And if he did, he would be talked about in even higher regard. I think that's right. I don't think he would be off anybody's Mount Rushmore. I know that's not the way it's supposed to work, but if we're being honest about how the interactions go, like the way that we talk with BG, the way that we all have relationships with him, the way that we, you know, have seen like the off-the-field version of him. Fletch had a bit of a barrier where you just didn't have that same kind of interaction. Sometimes it was tough to approach, you know, I would say.

And honestly, it factors in. It shouldn't, but it does. It is unfortunate that it does. It affects his Hall of Fame candidacy, right? I'm thinking back real quick. I'm thinking back. This is years ago. I texted him to come on the show.

You know, like, no, brother, come on the show. Nah, man. Yeah. It was just, nah, man. He was in ground floor. That's right. That's right. We still got to Fletcher kind of starts somewhere.

But it was funny. That wasn't who he was. He's not playing normal. He's also not, you know, he didn't, he didn't become like part of the. fabric of the city. You know, he didn't, he doesn't live here. You know, he goes, goes home, he's got his own ranch. Yep. Which I respect that he's got, like, he cares about what he cares about. He's, he, he's there, like, balls to the wall when he's at the facility. He works really

hard, but, like, he didn't, he didn't play that game, as you said. And unfortunately, I think that does affect it, because I think if you just look at the resume, you could make a case, you could make a case for him as number one, because he played his whole career here, and he, he is the one guy We'll not only start to Doc. Well, I know. We'll get to Doc. I think you're probably right. Dog is one.

After that here, you know, Kelsey, Fletz. Well, you could, the margins of this because of the exercise where Dawkins' career starts before 2000 and he leaves, which is not his fault, we can throw Joe Bander under the bus. But because Fletcher's whole career is here, and he's the guy who combines length

and that apex play with the Super Bowl team. With two Super Bowl teams, you could make that case. I think we will probably not land there. Yeah. But one of the best players I've ever seen. One of a handful of guys in this exercise who made the all-decade team in the 2010s. And that is usually a marker for guys that have Hall of Fame candidacy.

You know, it was to me like scheme transcendent was dominant in the, you know, the Juan Castillo defense, was dominant in the Billy Davis defense, was dominant in the Jim Schwartz defense. Whenever you ask, you know where he lined up. He didn't have to play with Chip. Yep. And the Billy did. And have it where you're just melting on the field. Yeah.

Yeah. Didn't love the Jonathan Gannon defense. Right, yes. They don't pay me to drop back. Yeah. That post-brainer. He is actually great. That was a game.

When he spoke, he was awesome. Well, that, yeah, we talk about not playing the game. What I think I loved about Fletch is that he was willing to say something publicly because he knew that it would affect change behind the scene. He was a reliable narrator too. Like, I think, you know,

when you got him to, it wasn't like he was going to sugarcoat stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Now, what is interesting, as you think about, you know,

how the Eagles' defensive line has been so good for so long, is that I'm not so sure that there's another defensive tackle who's going to make this list. I didn't have one. Yeah. I didn't have one. Yeah. Jay, you have,

to me, there were the handful of names there. You had Jalen Carter, Corey Simon, Javan Hargrave, and Mike Pee on the fringes? Yeah. That was,

That was it. Hollis, yeah. I think Mike Bean is actually an underrated player. He is, but. He's not in that, yeah. No. How do we feel about Jill and Carter?

He has, he has not quite done enough yet. Not yet. That's where I know. If we were doing this exercise after next year, we know. Right.

And it would be, it would be clear. Yeah. Because either he's going to be a beast again. Yeah. Now he's got shoulders repaired. Or, you know,

he goes off the rails. Super contract. Yep. All the coaches right now are saying that, you know, his shoulders are, good and he's he's looking great. He's the scariest.

Would you agree, T-Mack? He's the scariest Eagles Defender at least in this century. Hmm. Like, he is frightening. Like, he scares people. His ass Nick.

Yeah. Well, you, I mean, Doc's number one. And a lot of things. He was pretty scary. He was. But there's something, for something like unhinged sometimes

when it comes to Carter. Like he is, he's a frightening dude. It's because his blend of like the explosiveness and the power at his size. I do think of like the, there's the, I'm trying to remember exactly who said this,

but like Tim Jernigan had like that crazy like, pre-snap he'd like smile with like that grill and like smile at the guy. He'd be like, what am I going up against right now? But he was not the level of talent that Jalen Carter. Yeah. In terms of like guys who,

intimidate their opponent. Yeah, he's I heard it's funny, somebody told me like, you don't want him grin at. The last thing you want is a grin from him. I don't think I want that at all. No, no. But yeah, he hasn't, he hasn't done it for long enough

as far as I'm concerned. He had that one superstar year. For his side who was underrated for his job, right? Right. Like his job was, you were talking about plugging up the eight. Yeah. Like, yes. I mean, that was here.

And he said, look, he's got the, he's got the butt, right? looking at the big legs and the at the last. I spent a lot of time talking about buff. Right. Yeah. Never finished top 10 in Sacks in the league. Never finished top 10 in the CFLs.

Like the production was not there, but just a really good player for a long time. Yeah, just a good player. All right. Let's talk linebacker. Boy, was there a wasteland here for a long time. He's not going to be a lot of competition. We all agree.

Jeremiah Trotter along the list at the top of the list. Yeah, I actually had he and Zach Bond both making in the top 26. Okay, well, let's talk about, let's give Trotter a minute here. Yep. The Axeman. You talk about like the legacy, him coming back those multiple times. That matters.

So could I tell you, I got great Trot stories. I'm sure you got Trot stories for days. He and I did the show to get it for him. Yeah. I love Trot. I absolutely love him. The year he came back. So it was first.

when he had his contract dispute yeah right he's in with ain't right and and you know and he's trying to be like oh what after they can't give you whatever you want they call Jim because Jim like he lives to be Jim

the gym was in the room chop was like I think I think the room is scared right like leaves calls Andy's some right it's July for camp

and he's like coach you know I guess I had had a dream in my dream I was playing for you guys and I just want it's what you know that I love you and all this

dude like real yeah and Andy loved it because like Andy's a big guy player so you know we're had no bit of linebacker right it's entered Semino right

the answer what happened with him and the footprint from DeShan Foster on his back going into the end zone after Carolina so here he is coming back before 04 and the whole year you know he had to own and he made him earn his starting job

meanwhile come on he was the best it wasn't even close right so finally it was like it was the Pittsburgh game right and they lost and finally ended the Pittsburgh game he got to started job back and he knew it he's like because I want to get my job back sweet I'm telling my job back and it was it was awesome like he was he was such you know full of life

his kids are the greatest you know you know you know you know suffered a horrible loss with his wife beautiful guy a great eagle and uh I I just I just remember the impact he was you know he wasn't the side to linebacker, he was the bullet. That's what I was going to say. That would come at you. Sort of a bygone era kind of player, like the perfect player from that era

who like you would never see a guy that size be a linebacker today. No. And again, he was used. They used him in the A gap. That was it, man. He would have been in college he would have gotten moved to defense tackle. Yes. In today's

world. It only made sense that his son played here. I think that's all he need to say about the impact that Trot left here. Like, this is a defensive town. This is the way that we started in this conversation. There's a few guys that you identify with defense in this town, and Trot absolutely is one. So he, his, we were doing the show. We had his cut, his, his, his, his cause, it's rough. We were doing the axeman tisha. It was, it was the first acting, you know, now everybody's got shirts. Yeah, of course.

He's got the PHSOI store, everybody. His Axeman T-shirt was the first T-shirt. Back in 2004, where everyone was buying an X-Fan T-shirt. We would be doing the shows and people will come in, giving his brother $20 for the... All right, now, Fran, make the case here for Zach Bond, because I think that's lately... There are four guys who I think the last two years

could make a case for this list. Seekwon, who we will get to. Yep. Cooper, Dijian, and Quinionan, Mitchell, who we will get to. to and Zach Bonn, you think Zach Bonn has done enough to crack the top 26. Yeah, I think that when you look at the impact he had on what was the best defense in football that won the Super Bowl, transcendent player from a playmaking standpoint, you think of leading the team in tackles, which he did, leading the team like all this flash plays, the diving interceptions in the Super Bowl, in big moments in some of the biggest games. To me, like especially at a position you

mentioned like starving for like that player in the middle of that defense for so long uh for that guy to arrive and have that level of impact get rewarded with that contract yeah maybe part of it is also anticipating forward yeah that's the thing is he made a pro bowl the second year too so it wasn't just a one-time thing um and he got moved yes yeah i he he just made my 26 but he did make it in did he make yours too no he didn't make it in and it's still hard to believe that we're even having the conversation about Zach Bonn. When we talked with Vic Fangio that year about, you know, who were the linebackers that you're looking at?

And the first name out of his mouth was Zach Bond. We're like, Zach Bond. Why does he keep mentioning that? What's going on? Because he was an edge guy who was supposed to be like that plus special teams was the thought. And I think even during the signing, that's what they were thinking. And then, you know, Fangio got a look at him and said, actually, this guy is a middle linebacker.

And now we're talking about him as one of the most impactful. players of this millennium. It's like, it's kind of wild. It is. I don't, he's outside, but it's close. I think he's right in the bubble. Yeah. We'll have to find out if he makes it or not. You've got a good case. Yeah. Can I ask you guys

don't make the 26? No, but they deserve a mention. I want to ask you, who is higher on the list for you guys? Jordan Hicks or Nigel Braddon? Nigel Braddon. I had Jordan Hicks personally. Nigel Bradham for sure. Oh, see, really? Is that to me

is the power? I got to be. I got it. is the power of 2017. Sure. Yeah. Nigel Braddon was a monster that season. And then stayed around a little bit longer. Start out. Hicks was a really good player.

Hicks was a better player. Yeah. But in terms of lasting impact as an eagle, for sure, it's not to know. I love talking to Nigel Bratum. One of my favorite guys to talk to. Sure. So, yes.

In the locker room. Whereas Hicks was, his best work came on bad teams. Yeah. But he was the better player. I think what's tough about it is that the, but that's, But that's not the ranking.

The injuries were a big problem for him here in Philly. And then I was like, oh, like, just looking at the rest of his career, he didn't. Career was fantastic. The rest of his career is fantastic. He never got hurt again. I'm like, man, like, it just sucks. That was how it went out for him here. But he was, he was a really good player when he was held.

Who do you have hired? Clay Matthews or Nick Derry. I hadn't thought about those two. Yeah. No, I would have Carlos Emmons in there. I was just about to bring him up. because he was a guy that was one of, if he would have stayed,

they'd miss him. He was a great Sam lineback. He was a throwback. Tight ends. Yeah. Wacking tight ends. Great against the run. He was a really good play.

He just didn't, they didn't value it. But he was a great, I was going to mention him as one of the guys that, obviously he's not going to make a list, but was an impact for what he was here. Ike Reese makes a pro bowl, obviously, from first work on special teams,

but it was a great player for a really long time. Heart sold, God. Yeah, no question. You look at, you know, Sean Barber had a really good year, but it was a very, very small sample or other guys, but no one had that staying, that lasting impact.

All right. Let's send it to break. We don't come back because on the other side. I think corner. Oh, my gosh. I can't even. I've been racking it for days. It's very difficult to stay with us.

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no purchase necessary, U.S. only, void wear prohibited. Back on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast, our special show here, Tim McMahonis, Fran Duffy, because, and now we get to one of the most difficult position, probably the most difficult position. How do you parse? And again, talking about, like, speaking about

how good this Eagles franchise has been at a particular position, it is loaded here. You parse Troy Vincent, Lido, Bobby Taylor. Sheldon Brown, if you want to throw him in. Asante, Slay, Quinyan, Cooper DeGine. Am I missing somebody?

No, that's, I mean, that's enough. I mean, right off the bat, my head spins. Pro bowlers all over the place. Because you had Troy and Bobby as a pair. Then you had to lead him in Sheldon as a pair. And you come in with Asante, who was a huge signing.

One of the great signings of the century. Hugely impactful. They took them to, there was a Steakhouse on Rittenhouse Square. It's not there anymore. What was the name of that steakhouse?

They took him to his, they took Asante, Tom Hecker, who was, God rest of soul, a great man. He was the personal guy. Yep. He was so excited. They went to dinner with him, and he's like, signing.

And I was like, wow, awesome. You got Asante. and he was great. Assaulti was a great, great player. And such a different player than you see today. I mean, he sought out interceptions. Yep. And he got him. He did.

That's the thing about this list, though, is that it's not like it's apples to apples, like comparing Troy Vincent to Darius Slay, it's Lido Shev. Those are the same archetype of flare, like, similar type. But like Asante is so different. Bobby Taylor is so different. Cooper de Jean is so different. Like those guys, so it's conflicting skill sets, a lot of different types of resumes. This was a really tough one.

The other part of it is that Troy Vincent, half of his resume comes in the 1990s. And so that's where I was trying to like exercise and stuff. Yeah. You know, full disclosure, I have him in my top 26. I have him ranked as the number one cornerback on this list. But it's tough because of that where it's only four seasons essentially you're looking at. And then you have those huge impact guys. Like, how can you ignore what Cooper DeGine did?

And the Super Bowl. And Quinnian. I mean, Quignan, I've never seen a guy coming into the league with his shutdown capabilities. That kid is unbelievable. So let's do this. Let's see if you guys agree. Let's look to eliminate because they're so good, right? So off the bat, I love Bobby, and he was the tall corner and the whole thing.

Yeah. But let's put him out. Yeah. He was partly 90s. I agree with you. The whole thing. Yeah. Tough loss.

Right. I agree with you. So Lido, love you. I think you can make a case for Lido. Yeah? I had Lido made my 26. I think he could make a case. Yeah, he just, he just got an act.

He does not make mine. He's underrated. I think about the resume. That was about the resume for Lido. So he made one all pro, two pro bowls. I was, so the other part of this too, this was something we haven't necessarily talked about

is like the emotion around like some of the biggest moments for some of these guys. He didn't have the postseason moments. Like he was on the Super Bowl team in 2004, but getting that pick six in the T.O. return game is like one of the most like memorable, pre-super Bowl, certainly one of the biggest moments in franchise history.

It's a great player, former first round pick, homegrown player. Yeah, to me, like he was a guy that just snuck in based off the talent based off the resume. I love them, but I don't have. Yeah, it was a tough one. Sheldon Brown, I love.

I couldn't put Sheldon there. Yep. In terms of eliminating. But he was the first guy who, the first year I was around the team was like, taught me what it was like to be an NFL Zetteran and just like seeing him play through the pain that he was playing through. And how much class he handles it with. I will always have a special place.

I love Selvin. South Carolina, the whole thing. The Reggie Bush hit. The Reggie Bush hit was, yep, no question. Moments. Tell me the quote. The quote was, yes, it felt like he was going to regard. and he didn't feel it.

Trump went like a cardboard box. It was so perfect that he went through a cardboard bottle. I watched that one at a bar if he didn't know that it was in college and just the whole place just erupted opening drive from that place. Unbelievable. Great, great. I think you can eliminate him though. Yeah. Now where do you

go next? So I do think Troy is a great, great player but I wonder about... Well, hold on. Only because... Because if it's pushing back against Jeffrey for the for the tush push. Yes. But

the 90s piece of it. Yeah. For this decade, I know. It's hard and there's a lot of guys. So like while he was undeniably, I think, man, I mean, he's certainly top of three. It's like two

all pros at the beginning of the century, right? Two all pros. He was an all pro in 01. He was an all pro pro and O2 and he made Pro Bowl all four of the years his first four. He's like, that's a thing. His career year, seven interceptions was in 1999 and that was his first Pro Bowl season

but he made a Pro Bowl all four years that he was in Philly in the in the 2000s. That's tough. Look at those passes defense in 2001, no. 27. I said that to ball. That is insane. It was a great, great player. And every year too, like this is going

back to when he started in Miami too, but like he had multiple interceptions every season until 2004. Like he was He was drafted in 1992. He had multiple picks every year. Like, he's a team with, if we're doing the old 90s team. But if we're talking about, you know, he had four good years.

Yeah. It's hard for, it's hard. Can we put him to the side? Yeah. But that's why it's hard for me to get to having Quinyan and Cooper on this list. Yeah. I know. I don't know what it is.

That's my sole spot. Yeah. Because Quinyon. I love Quinyon. I love. I love the Gene, too. Both guys. I was going to say.

Q and Cooper, they don't win. Listen, the offense was, Barclay was amazing, I think. But when Cooper came in, he solidified the backfield. Him and Quinyan, I think, were as big a reason as anybody that they won that year. If you had to pick one of the three to be sort of the flag bearer for that defense, would it be Quinyon, Cooper, or Zach Bond? See, I'm Quinnian Cooper. But if you had to pick one, if you only pick one guy

to be the flag bearer for that group. Cooper dejean for me. It's either Cooper. It's either Cooper or Bison. He's a great player. He's a great player. He's a great player. 2014, I feel more Zach Bonn, or 2024.

I feel more Zach Bonn from last year. I think that's where I land is that in the Super Bowl season, I think I give it to Bond, just because it was DeGis's first year in the spot. The pick six, obviously, I mean, an unbelievable play. Yeah, the pick six. The defense changed. Yeah.

When they, when he got into the line up, they were different. I just, yeah, you forget. It took, what, five, five, six weeks. Yeah, the favorites. Yeah, totally transformed. You're right. Who's to say whether it was out of the shape head, though? I mean, it could be, it could have been the shape head.

Yeah. The shape head. I don't know where we've landed still. I don't, I don't know. You too. He's so good. He's a great player. He's a great player.

He's a great player. But it's only been two years. One of the crazy parts about Quignan is that he's got zero picks in the record. He's got four in the part of the playoffs. That's crazy. For all that, I have Quineon and Cooper off. I have, I had them both just off as well. I had them both off.

Who else do you have in? I have Asante, Slay, and Vincent. You got Slay? You got Slay yet. Okay. I had Slay is just off. I had Slay just off. Yeah, I have him outside.

I had Lido in, Slay off. Asante in. Slay's 2024 was as good as Quinyon's seasons, right? He was here a little bit longer. It would be hard to put on Quigion and not Sleigh, I feel. Five years. Drapped by the team. Three Pro Bowls.

Yeah. Two Super Bowl appearances. Yep. Groomed Quinyon. Yep. I know. I know. I see Queen has a better play.

Is it a personality thing with Slai? No, I love Sarah Slai. Okay. I love it. No, I feel like for some people it is. I'm a huge fan of Derek. I love Derek Slay. Yeah.

And I love Jenny Slay. I love, I do. I love him. But I don't know. I just think, I think Quinn Yan is a generational talent. Do you think there is something to... I think Key Cooper are otherworldly players.

I believe in them. Do you think there is something to the connection of a guy who is drafted by the team versus signs with the team and kind of mid-career? Just a little bit. I do. And I know you might say Reese's his. bias at all. I just

think there's, I'm looking to tell and I look at the impact. That defense is ridiculous to those. I agree with you. I think if we were forecasting and doing this section, that's the thing. It's like what it can look like in five years? I'm sure those guys will be on the list. Yes. Right now

it's like it's like the Jaylon Carter thing. I just don't know that there's enough there yet. Who did you have a slayer or Asante? I had Asante hire. I had Asante hire. I think when you look at Asante's production, three times finished in the top 10 in interceptions. That's the most in the franchise history over the

course of that span. Three times he was in the top 10 in Pbues. You look at three pro bowls, one all pro bid. Yeah, to me, Asante. To me, Insante and Troy were the two greatest player. You just look at the players themselves. Yeah. I mean, Slay's got a resume too. So he's got a good resume. Obviously, we're just looking in the confines of Philadelphia, but when he was in Detroit, he was

in Massachusetts as well. Without a doubt. So that's tough for me. I mean, I have Slay ahead of Asante. Yeah. So I have Troy, Slay, Asante, but I don't feel good about anything. Yeah. You know? Did you deduct anything from Asante?

Just curious. Because I thought he changed their defense when they signed him. He's much more boom or bust, right? And he's a specific kind of player. You could complete the ball on Asante. He might not tackle you. But he is so dangerous. You don't want to throw his way because he can.

I know. He's so well scouted. Slays a little bit more technically sound. I think he's going to, you know. Yeah. More match on versatility. Like if I were picking a team, like I'd rather, I'd pick sleigh above Asante. Like if I were just picking, play, hey, we're playing a game on Sunday.

Like, who do you want at the peak of their powers? Like, I'm taking sleigh. The most impactful thing you can do as a defender is take the ball away, right? That's the most important thing you can do. Right. And it's rare that a guy can reliably do that. Yeah. And Asante can.

Yeah. And there's a fear on the offense. I remember talking to O.C. the other side going, you know, like that he was in their head. I think like Slay, I think of that Monday night game against, there was a Monday night Thursday against Justin Jefferson. Like, I don't think Asante was that type of player. No, I agree with you.

So like, Slay, I could say, you would take him and put him on the other team's alpha and say go, go play cat defense against that guy. And he was and is it a better player on a down-by-down basis? Yeah. It's how much do you value the ability to take that ball away. Yes. I don't think we have come up with an answer. No.

But we've given ourselves a lot to think about. Right. Stay with us because on the other side, we finish up the defense and talk about the guy who might be number one. And let's not forget about Malcolm Jenkins is going to make a case for the judge as well. We love Wawa. And you know what we love? We love the Wawa tacos. But they're only available for a little bit of time.

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all p.hly.com. slash poll. That's P-O-L-L, not P-O-L-E. Of course, you're taking a poll. You're not getting hit in the face with a poll. Check it out. We appreciate you. All-P-H-L-Y.com slash poll. Back in the P-H-L-Y Eagles podcast, let's talk safety. We know where we're going at the top of this conversation. Anybody beyond Doc and Malcolm, who you think deserves conversation, Fran? The only other two I had in consideration where Rodney McLeod and Quentin Michael. I think they both deserve to be talked about. I think they're both deserved to be talked about.

I think when you look at Rodney, you know, his impact on the Super Bowl team at 17, was a glue guy in the secondary. Yeah, I mean, it was a really good player. Just, you know, to me, like underrated, even like kind of looking back. Played six full seasons here in Philly. Yeah, just a really good player for long time.

Quentin Michael, Michael, just played on some bad teams, some bad defense. Football player, though. There's a good football player. I mean, two all pros. Like two second team all pro bids. I made a pro ball on top of it.

Yeah, so Quinn Michael done it on a lot worse post doc. Yes. And that it did. And that's thanks to Quinn Michael. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's talk Malcolm first.

And I don't think that Malcolm was the best player on the 2017 team. Right. But I think you can make a case he was the player you think about the most, maybe the most important player on that team, helped rally them when Carson Wentz goes down. impact on the city, long-lasting leader. To me, Malcolm is, like, back of the top 10. That's kind of how I feel about him. He finished 11 for me.

And I thought about him as early as, like, 7, 8, 9. So, yeah, I agree with you. I have him at 7. Okay. So he's well within the top 10 for me. I feel like, even though he gets plenty of praise, I still feel like he's underappreciated for what he accomplished. I mean, how long was the city starving for a Super Bowl champion?

Yep. And he was the leader. Yep. On the first Super Bowl champion in Philadelphia history. And, you know, it wasn't just that. Like, it's the leadership, but it was also the play. It was also the versatility. And it was just the way that he set the tone and rose to big moments.

I mean, yeah, so I'm team Malcolm. I'm with you. Go ahead. Yeah, I think you guys said it all. Okay. I would have him early teens. Okay. Interesting. I still think of BG as that guy of that team.

But undeniably, he was the leader. Malcolm was the leader. Malcolm was, and he was the consummate throat, right? Like this, he was that guy that he went to. The most reliable narrator from that time as well, too, Tim, because I think you sort of saw he was giving some hints about some of the Carson stuff.

Yep, right? I think there were a lot of times along the way where he was an uncomfortable truth teller. And I always think about Malcolm as, I couldn't believe how many things he was able to juggle. You know, the things that he was doing off the field with all of his roles on the field. And he's playing like 100% of the special team snap sometimes.

Like, unbelievable player person to watch. And by the way, could also, place locked horn. Yep. Yes. A huge, huge piece. But we talk about guys that are media-friendly,

that are big of a community, and get extra points. Is he getting extra points from you guys? Like, I think terrific football player, but is you getting extra points for you guys? I think there's a case to be made for that. But I think that goes to the legacy. I think that is kind of part of it.

I think if you were to talk to people of a certain age, he's their Dawkins. He was their favorite player from their favorite team. And he was unafraid to call people out even on his own team. You remember when DeBarcum Murray was dogging it and Janie Camp, and he took a chair and put it on the field and be like, here you go, DeMarco. Oh, yeah. Have a great point. I mean, he was somebody that very much held the standard that you need.

did on a that's a great point it's a great point he actually played more and it's funny because he goes to new orleans and it goes back to new orleans uh played most of his most of his starts came in philly most of it like that and was productive i mean he was here for six seasons four times finished in the top 10 what i would call splash plays so you look at tfl sacks interceptions um i mean the guy there was a playmaker scored a bunch of touchdowns defensively a handful of touchdowns you talk about the captain what he was off the field yeah i'd tell you anything that you would ever ask him to do in the field he could do. Yeah.

I think he'd make a good case, too. And he wasn't even the desired free agent safety. Right. He's the terrorist bird. Yeah. Bird was the man that everybody wanted. Yeah. Let's get Chip some credit for that one. I think you're right. All right, let's talk about a little Dawkins.

Is there a case to be made that he is not number one? Not number one, no. That's what I'm is. Is anybody willing to make that case? No. Not me. Really? You? Why, you want it?

It's not the... Oh, my God. It's not that I don't think he's number one. I just... I'm willing to have the conversation. That's why you're good. That's why you're moderating this. The pre-2000s stuff, it doesn't hurt him that much.

All of his best years came in the 2000s. He was a pro-bler in 1999. There's one that he misses. The fact that he leaves and doesn't finish his career here, I don't know. The only thing I think you could say is do you care more? about the guys who actually delivered the Super Bowl. Right. Okay.

Well, it wasn't because it has the thing. Of course not. Right. But does that matter more? If you want to make a case for Kelsey or a BG or a Fletcher or a lane because those guys actually won it. Truth be told. Okay.

And so I go through this and I had it like kind of in buckets and tears. Okay. And to me, it's a two horse race at the top. It is Brian Dawkins and Jason Kelsey at the top. this list. And if I'm looking at the two, I say, all right, one guy was on a Super Bowl team and was the face of the Super Bowl team. One wasn't. One had six all pros, first team all pros. One had four. Both had seven Pro Bowl visits. Um, that's like Jason Kelsey, if you're just looking at the spreadsheet, you're just looking at that. You're saying like, if you're just looking at

the resume, he's like, Kelsey, but Dawkins is number one. Like, to me, like, I think you look at the impact. Yes. Over the course of the, over the course of the time that he was there, you mentioned like, could you ever make the argument. A center. Like, yes. It's hard. Like, you know, listen.

He was more Philly than that. Right. A hard hit and safe. I know. You know. They retired his number. Yeah, to me, he's number one.

He's an NFL Hall of Famer, which I think Kelsey, Kelsey, I think it was going to get there as well. He will. But I think it's Brian Dawkins. You could make a case for Jason Peters. Yeah.

And the fact that is he like, can you say, how many players can you say this about that have worn an Eagles uniform? Like, he might be the best or he might, he's in that upper echelon at the position that they play. And Dawk obviously is a fantastic Hall of Famer, you know, he's got credentials for days. But, you know, Peters might be at another level when it comes to those kind of accolades and how high up he is. Yeah. But to me, like the position value, I think with this conversation matters less. I do think that to me looking at

what Dawkins meant to those teams and he was the heart to it, no question. I love Jason Peters and he was elite as you say feedback. But there was one guy that would come last out of the funnel, right? Yeah. Out of his helmet, the blow-up helmet

and he would transform himself. I mean... And the stadium. Yeah. I remember doing a filly bag piece. and I was with him in the helmet as he made. Nice. That's fun for me.

It's really cool. And it was really a lot of fun. But it started, he's like, yeah, I said, I just want to watch you transform into your car. He called it idiot.

And everybody's Wolverine, everything. But he's like, I'm idiot. And it started like pregame and when he would get dressed. And you can see the transformation. And he was quiet. and he stopped.

And then I remember being in the helmet. And he's just patient. And he's patient. And it was just so. And he'd come out, do all that. It was just theater, man. Like, he was bigger than life. So the first time I was ever at the NovaCare complex to on assignment,

I saw Brian Dawkins pull in and his Chrysler. And I was like, oh, I'm just going to sit here and wait for Dawkins to come out. It was like a very cool moment for somebody who had grown up in the area. It was a huge Dawkins fan and the whole thing. And what struck me was it took him probably a good like five to seven minutes just to get out of his car. It was like a couple days after the game just to get like the stuff in his trunk. He was moving so slowly. And it was like my first vision into how much these guys take and think about how much he threw his body into it. I mean, and the toll that that has to take for somebody of his stature to make the kind of, you know, to make the kind

impact against these size guys. And I saw that firsthand and it was like my first image, you know, behind the scenes in the Eagles land. And it still sticks with me to this day. Like he sacrificed a lot of these guys too, but, you know, just put so much into it. Cool. It was eye-opening. Now, the games changed a little bit, like not a little bit.

Not easier, but training camp isn't as arduous as it was. but man, I remember Runyon, Runyon broke his tailbone. We were going to a show, and John, we were in a car, and it was like a limbo kind of thing,

and, you know, Alex, right? And he pulls in, he had black and blue on the middle of his back, down his leg. And I would ever think,

and he could sit, and he had to stick like this, on the one side. and you realize man it's no it's no joke

yeah like the physicality and the game was at the height of its physicality doing that error yeah and he was part I mean he was

with the Eagles during the transition out of that yeah so he had to adapt and he's talking about having to it like adjusts

and evolve throughout the course of his career as well that's like Dawkins man number one number one don't be fooled it's also

very physical and very difficult for us go through this conversation. Let's put a pin on the defense. Join us tomorrow when we talk about the offensive side of the ball and try to figure out exactly where all of these guys go together on the PHAY Eagles podcast.

Thank you, Tim, thank you, Fran, thank you, because. We'll talk to you later, and as always, we love you.