PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Thrust The Process: Tush Push is here to stay for the Eagles after Jason Kelce saves the day

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

A year ago, the Eagles were propelled to the Super Bowl thanks to the immediate impact of newcomers likes Saquon Barkley, Zack Baun, Quinyon Mitchell, Cooper DeJean and Mekhi Becton. A year later, there are fewer fresh faces, but the Eagles will still need new players to help the cause, whether it’s rookies like Jihaad Campbell and Andrew Mukuba or veterans like Kenyon Green and Azeez Ojulari. Zach Berman and Bo Wulf go back and forth on their expectations while also keeping an eye on the future of the Tush Push. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's here. The Tush Push. It's here to stay. The Eagles stave off Roger Goodell's unseemly push against the Tush Push. We're here to talk about it. Zach Berman, all the news in studio coming up next. Hello everybody and welcome to the PHAW on Eagles podcast presented by True Mark Financial on a day of celebration for America's butts. Zach Berman, Bo Wolfe here to talk about big news Philadelphia Eagles. Deny the day. denial of the tush push 22 to 10. They got just enough votes.

Zach Berman, we got a lot to talk about the Eagles. This was kind of win-win, I do feel like for the Eagles

because either they get to play sort of the victim and like the league has come after them and they get to have the ship on their shoulder, or they get to

sort of still do that and have the play that they do better than anybody else. Well said, this is as much as we, I don't want to say

poo-poo the story. Oh, Look at you staying on it. All right. This was the biggest story in the NFL today, right? Which we will have a conversation about because it is so silly that this was the story of the offseason. This play that as AJ Brown correctly described is for one yard and they run it like two or three times of game. Yeah.

And because I'm probably influenced by talking to players and like they don't think it's that huge a deal. It's so crazy. And so, but it has this fascinating. nationally, locally, too. Obviously, I would imagine the name of the play has something to do with it, but it's more polarizing than I anticipated. And the crazy thing now is because it got passed by such a narrow margin, two votes, 2210, same score as that Eagles Packers game,

that because it was so narrow, now it's just, the debate's going to continue, right? it's not which is a little bit nauseating but yes yeah and I'm there's so many ways to go with this like I'm curious if the Eagles lean into it even more certainly organizationally on like social media they've been having fun with this it's you know I think there there've been more tweets about the push push than Nixiriani's contract extension like that's that's the reality and so yeah there's there's the Packers element to it the other teams in the league but but my quick thing is that I don't think it's that consequential. I think that too much gets made about the push-push-push element of like pushing the quarterback and not enough gets made about the offensive

line and the quarterbacks a part of it. And what I mean by that is if this was banned, I think the Eagles would have been similarly effective on quarterback sneaks. Yeah, I looked at the numbers this morning and it's not perfect, but if you just segment to one or two yards to go on third and fourth down over the past three years, the Eagles are the most successful team at running those plays over that time. It's like 73%, which is not a crazy percent. So if you're just talking about the effectiveness of the play, obviously, I mean, I don't need to, this is preaching to the choir, but obviously this is not like a thing that needs to get litigated out because some team has an unfair advantage. The Eagles have gotten a little bit less successful at it, added over the

past couple years. They were ninth in the league on those plays last year. So down to 70 percent, like, okay, so it's not a, it's not a like a thing that affects competitiveness, right? They're not getting some kind of advantage. It's just that because of Nick Siriani's like fanatical dedication to this play, they spend more time on it. And that's why they're more effective at it. But to your point, like, you know, Carson Wentz was really good at quarterback sneaks. Exactly.

When they still had a very good offensive line and Jeff Stoughton was the offensive coordinator or the offensive line coach. I agree with you. I don't think that if this play got banned, it would really, affect the Eagles success on those plays. So then it comes to, okay, is it is, do you believe that this is a health thing? And we have heard some, you know, behind the scenes, uh, whispers that like, there's some concern that this could lead to a grave injury and it would be to a quarterback and that is the league's worst nightmare. But obviously, you can't just do that based on like theory.

Sure. They, well, they've run this play enough that as, uh, Jeffrey Lurie said at the owner's meetings, like, it's one of the safest plays. in football. Like, nobody's getting hurt. They're so close together. So I don't know. We will get to how embarrassing this is for Roger Goodell.

Later on, we will get to what you think the Eagles will do next here and a lot of other things. But from a, like, what happens next standpoint? Are we done now until the season? Is there another time that this could get voted on? Or it's tabled until next off season? Yeah, this is it until next off season. So this could very well come up at the same time period. next offseason, competition committee at the Combine,

owners meetings vote, then spring meeting vote, which is where they are right now. But from now until the season, nothing changes in that regard. Okay, so let's sort of set the scene on how we think this all played out today. Tell us first about, you know, these are not the owners meetings that you and I go to sometimes in the offseason. This is a separate thing. What is the purpose of this meeting? What is sort of the media atmosphere there?

What are they talking about? How does this begin? Yeah, good question. So the spring meetings are less heralded than the annual meetings in that it's not as much of the, you don't bring your families, you don't have the big party. There's not a yacht measuring contest. No, yeah. No, this is very much like this is an owner's convention and with other top personnel there. And there's important things that have voted upon in addition to. Debatable. But I believe this is the meeting. where it was announced a few years ago that the Rams and the Chargers were, you know, what they were relocating. Okay. Like this is, there's often consequential votes that occur here.

Okay. There's voting in, in the annual meetings, and then things often get pushed to this one because either language is rewritten similar to what happened here. Which was the case, this one. Yeah. Or there's, they want more information. And there's stuff here, too, that was tabled. Like, you know, I thought Professor Selman on Friday's show.

did a great job discussing the receding and the playoff changes that actually got tabled, right? There was an on-sides kick thing that got added in. There's some at the meetings yesterday, it was announced by unanimous vote that players can participate in flight football at the Olympics in 2028. They announced the hard knocks, actually the Eagles are in. Yeah, this is news. Hard knocks NFC or hard-knows in season. NFC East will. So that will debut in December.

So you'll see behind-the-scenes footage from the Eagles. We can get to that later. But so that's- Now, listen, I don't want to go too far down this road, Zach. Yeah. But that would be helpful were someone to write a book on next season's Eagles team to have that kind of behind-the-scenes information.

I just am throwing that kind of out there for you. I would be lying if that did not cross my mind. but I made a vow that there will be no book next off season. And so there will be no book next off season unless. No, I'm joking. Listen, you know. Other people can change their mind too. So to set the scene, the owners are there.

As we've seen from photos and from footage, the Eagles had John Ferrari there, the assistant general manager. Jason Kelsey made an appearance today. He was part of the Eagles. He was part of the Eagles pitch. So the background there, and Jason talked about this on his podcast. You might have heard of it. It's called New Heights. Yeah, never heard?

They can take some lessons from us then. Sure. Jason's comments were kind of used as supporting evidence of the problem of the play. I think he made a joke about how much it stinks to be on the bottom of the pile. Right. And so I think that was presented by Bill's owner Terry Pagua as like evidence that they should get this out of the game. And so Jason wanted to kind of set the record straight. And I was listening to him on his show.

And he's like, if all I had to do was tush pushes, I would play again right now. He's like, that'd be fine with me, right? It's probably easier than blocking Dexter Lawrence. And so he was according to reports there, multiple of reporters I respect, Diana Rossini, Jory Epstein, there are a lot of people there, talking about how Kelsey really kind of talked about the strategy behind the play. Jeffrey Lurie and his comments talked a lot about the health and safety component of it. As you referenced at the owner's meetings,

Jeffrey said that if there was any health and safety concerns, the Eagles would have the play out of it. They wouldn't push to keep it in the league. He said the quarterback sneak is actually... They don't want their quarterback to be hurt. Yeah, he said the quarterback sneak is an unhealthy play than the quarterback push play. So that's the Eagles position. There's certainly not enough data that points to this being an unhealthy play.

And like you mentioned, that there's the hypothetical, but Jeffrey said you can't legislate against that. So Jeffrey spoke up. It was reported for 30 minutes today. Nick Siriani spoke, or I'm sorry, Jason Kelsey spoke as well. And then John Ferrari, the Eagles assistant GM, like I said, he also was part of the presentation. I want to ask you about Ferrari because you've mentioned him. And I think in these league settings,

he is a little bit of their secret weapon. He used to work for the league, so there's some connections there. There's also some understanding of the way that things move and the way that you're able to get people on your side. So tell me a little bit about John Ferrari and what his role would have been here. Yeah, great question. I'm glad you brought that up because, like you mentioned,

used to work for the league on the rule side of it, the administrative side of it. So a legitimate expert on league rules, league protocols, league bylaws. That's important to have in the front office. He's kind of grown in his role with the Eagles. He's up to assistant GM, so how he's number two along with Al Calby. And he really deals with the administrative aspect of it. So every type of rule interpretation, how things are written dealing with the competition committee. And then like you mentioned, I think this is important, is that when you have 32 owners or 31 owners, then the Green Bay Packers are represented by

a president. We will get to the Green Bay Packers. That you have different constituencies, right? And these things, it's very much, like, in Congress lobbying for votes. Like, you need in, there needed to be 24 votes for this to pass today. So then, therefore, you needed eight votes against it, right? Right. And so for, so you're kind of lobbying four votes.

So there were 10 teams that voted against it. And I imagine there's a lot of phone calls around the league to other GMs. assistant GMs, owners, whoever it may be. But to the point about John Ferrari, Jeffrey Lurie's very involved. We know that. But Jeffrey Lurie's not an expert on all the rules. So oftentimes, before these types of meetings,

John Ferrari is like talking with Jeffrey about, you know, what the organization's position is going to be. Jeffrey ultimately makes a decision, makes a vote. But John will give Jeffrey the background, the data behind it. Jeffrey's very data-driven. And so John comes with all of that. And it's also important for fans to know that, like, when you think of general manager, you think so much of picking the players, but so much of it's the administrative side of it.

So things, even on game day, when you're looking at the use of data, like John Ferrari's involved in that, whether to challenge a player. I mean, our understanding is he's the one in Nick's year for fourth down decisions and stuff, right? Exactly. But even like challenging a play, like his interpretation of, of, of that. Anecdotally, the Eagles have officials at practice, and John Ferrari's talking to the officials.

And so there will be times when John Ferrari signaling the touchdown or signaling out of bounds. And so it's a pivotal role, and I bring this up because Jory Epstein from Yahoo Sports posted a photo of Jason Kelsey, and like Jason Kelsey's there to save the day. And look, Jason Kelsey obviously was a part of this, but the person Jason is talking to in that photo

is John Ferrari. And John Ferrari wouldn't be in the room at that meeting unless he was playing an important role. Sure. And he knows the kind of language that is going to get owners ears to perk up and he might be coaching Jason

on those kinds of things. The other thing that is interesting to me about these dealings is like what is Jeffrey Lurie's power among the other owners, right? Because say what you will about this vote, it is very clearly a thing that is targeting the Eagles, right?

And so... You think so? Come on. No, I'm asking you think so? I mean, there is no other honest reading. So you think if the Titans were really good at this play, do you think...

Do you think it's the Eagles' success or do you think it's the Eagles organization? Well, I think that it is compounded by the fact that the Eagles are on TV a lot. So we see this play a lot. There's a lot of discussion about it. It is the team that just won the Super Bowl. So I think it's...

Whether it is, perfectly targeted at the Eagles intentionally by everybody or it's just sort of they know that they're going to be the one the team that doesn't benefit from it the most it doesn't really matter right it's either on purpose

or it's you know that that's the ramification I shouldn't have mentioned the Titans they were the worst team in football let's say the Detroit Lions let's say the Detroit Lions were really good at this play would there be a vote against it today I don't know I mean if they

I think if they also called it the tush push and it was on TV as much, I kind of think so, don't you? Yeah. So if I can just do like a brief 90 second aside here, because this has been fascinating for us to cover. Credit to Kael and K. Our former colleague, she did a big piece on this. It has been fascinating, but I am also a little bit, not a little bit.

I am a lot tired of having to talk about. But like, so this whole show, this is all touch push. After this, can we put it to bed, please? Fair. But 2022, this was like a novelty, right? And that's my point. So Nick Siriani explained he did a version of this in Indianapolis. Andrew Luck was injured or Andrew Luck was coming off an injury.

So they bring Jacoby Brissette in for these quarterback sneaks. With the Eagles, they, he gets to Philly. He motions Dallas Goddard into the backfield. They have a fourth and one against Detroit, week one of the 22, of the 2020 season. It's a three-point game. They're at the 40-yard line. The Eagles decide to go for the quarterback sneak to try to seal the game. They convert that.

Nick Siriani says this is going to be an important play for us. We need to continue to dress it up. And it kind of evolved from there. 2002, the Eagles very much leaned into this play. Nick Siriani had a quote that he views every series as first at nine, right? Like that was his quote. This was viewed as like the strategic advantage for the Eagles. And then it was written about local.

It was really just a local story. I thought Kalyn did a terrific job. And I think, I don't know if she came up with the term Tush Push or if that was said to her, but that was the first time I heard Tush Push was from that. I don't remember that. I could be wrong. I thought it was, I thought it had been called that, but I could be wrong.

Maybe so, but, but I, but I, but. She had the good nugget in there about Kelsey moving the ball. Yeah. Exactly. And obviously the Eagles make the Super Bowl that year. And then since then it's taken on a life of its own to the point that the Eagles have tried to kind of back off like like, like, um, they're saying, this is actually a football play and this is trained. This isn't just this automatic play.

They rep it a lot. Yeah, Nick says he takes umbrage to or he's offended by the idea that this is an automatic play. Right. Exactly. So like the whole first and nine thing, they're kind of backing off this. Well, the irony there is that I actually think that in some cases like the tush push does work against them offensively because oftentimes they lean too heavily on it. It's like, okay, well, let's get to one or two yards to go as opposed to, you know, taking a shot down. field.

They're in the Super Bowl. I'm not really, but I think that there are times when they lean too heavily on it. But this goes to your point too, and I heard you talking about it on Anthony's show today, is that if this was called Brotherly Shove, maybe, you know, like the Eagles wanted that brotherly shove thing, maybe it doesn't take on the process that I came up with today. Yeah, I like that. I mean, but like if it's just a push sneak, people aren't as into it. It's a push push, and they like saying it on TV.

Yeah, it depends on your proclivities. Oh, everybody likes butts. Just, you know. Which butts you like. So, but, like, players push back on this term. Players don't, the players don't like saying, like, Jalen rolls his eyes at Tush Push. There was that, he was on the Jimmy Fallon show, I put the Tonight Show. Okay.

And it got brought up to him, and he's, he, he doesn't like the idea that he runs the Tush Bush, right? Right. And, like, Jordan Milata said yesterday. He calls it Snoopy, right? He doesn't say it publicly, but we've heard. audio yeah uh jordan myelotta said yesterday he hopes it gets banned because he doesn't like the term push push yeah he doesn't like how people say that um i actually i i i disagree with this yeah touch push to me is good like yeah embrace the butt yeah jeffery called brotherly shove is like

way to madison avenue marketing you think so yeah like nick wanted brotherly shove a few years and it's also like they created it so that they could copyright it they did trademark it yeah That's true. Yeah, Tush push is organic. And I don't think that in the sport of football, we need to shy away from the idea of butts being out there. They're shoved in our face all the time. But I think because of the name, too, it's taken on a life of its own, right? Like, aesthetically, it's really not that.

I hear these arguments how aesthetically unpleasing it is. I hate this argument, yeah. I mean, is it any different than a quarterback sneak? Right. That's the thing. So it's like, oh, here they come. If anything, it is like, it adds. to the entertainment value now that it is a thing

because when the Eagles line up for a push, like the Eagles crowd gets excited or the other team gets excited, like it becomes a moment in something on a play that otherwise would not be won. Exactly. But then, you know, these national broadcasts you have the play, oh, here they come on the

push now, right? And so and the Eagles practice it. So you made the point though that like Roger might not like that being like the signature play is the tush push. Yeah, I think he might. I think he might he seems very puritan

in his sensibilities about his game so I think that could be part of it but I want to get back to the Jeffrey Larry Power thing because there's a friend of mine who often makes the case that like Jeffrey has no power

with the league and often gets railroaded in these kinds of conversations and so for him to have to get eight other owners that's it eight other owners to join his side if he couldn't do that

like that would be a bit of a mark against him because this is a guy who has been an owner for a long time, has been a successful owner, is on some of these committees. He should have this power. He was able to flex just enough of it today. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to disagree with your friend. Like, I don't know the context of it there.

He goes a little over the top sometimes, my friend. I think Jeffrey has, I think Jeffrey's strength in the league or presence in the league has certainly grown over the past decade plus as there have been some new owners. the NFL historically because they don't allow corporate ownership so it's a lot of family ownership there weren't a lot of new owners during a certain period of time so geoffrey was always kind of like the new kid on the block he's owned the team now for 30 plus years right he bought or he bought the team in 1994 and you just see some of like the non-family owners who've come in since then

it's certainly it certainly has changed whether you look at you know Washington's changed since then Denver's changed since then. Carolina's changed since then. Tampa Bay's changed since then. Buffalo's changed since then. Jacksonville, Cleveland, the Rams, right? So this has been the Miami Dolphins. This is a different type of league

than when it was the Giants, the Steelers, like the legacy family ownership, the Packers. The Packers are publicly a traded team now. But there's been, The ownership changed. I think with that, you see a lot of Jeffries,

like contemporaries in the league or like the owners, he's closer within the league. It's more probably the owners who've come during the past 20 years, I would say, than some of the longtime family ownership, if that makes sense.

Okay. All right. I want to take a break. On the other side, you have the list of all 10 teams who voted in support of the Eagles, I guess, nine other teams besides the Eagles. I've seen a couple of them,

but I don't know. know all of them. I want to react to that on the other side and see if we can figure out any little connections between those teams. And then we're going to talk about the Packers. Are they enemy number one for the Eagles now? We're going to talk about Roger Goodell's embarrassing, emasculating day and much more to come on the PHY Eagles podcast. Mando! Time to talk about Mando. You know what Mando is? Mando is a men's deodorant brand that is hyper-focused on keeping every aspect of a man's body smelling fresh, and clean. And we're not talking about the pits, although the pits are part of it.

We're also talking about belly buttons. We're talking about balls. We're talking about grundles. And importantly today, we're talking about butts. The scents at Mando are geared toward men with options like bourbon leather, clover woods, Mount Fuji, and pro sport. This is a whole body deodorant, safe to use on your body. pits, balls, thigh folds, belly buttons, butt cracks, and feet. Created by a doctor who saw firsthand how normal body odor was being misdiagnosed and mistreated. Mando clinically proven to block odor all day and control odor for up to 72 hours. All products are baking soda free and paraben free.

It's clinically proven to control odor better than a shower with soap alone. 12 hours after a shower, the average man's gruntle. odor level was a five out of ten. With Mando, the average grundle odor level is a zero out of 10. So, get yourself some Mando with the Mando starter pack, which is perfect for new customers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant, cream tube deodorant, and two free products of your choice, like the mini body wash and deodorant wipes. It also comes with free shipping. As a special offer for listeners, new customers, get $5 off a starter pack with our exclusive. code. That's P-H-L-Y at shopmando.com. That equates to over 40% off your startup pack,

sh-o-p-m-a-n-d-o.com. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you, smell fresher, stay drier, and boost your confidence from head to toe with Mando. Everybody's looking for that home advantage. Maybe the push push gives it to you. Maybe your crowd gives it to you. You get that home court, home field, home ice advantage. I'm wondering about the home floor advantage. That's what Empire Today gives you. When you go to Empire Today, they're flooring experts. They're dedicated flooring professionals who focus on flooring every single day. We've all been to these big box stores, right? And I know I'm guilty of going around the aisles, trying to act like I know what I'm looking

at so I'm not embarrassed. I pick out a product. I haul it home. And then I'm like, what do I do now. Okay? No, Empire Today helps you with that. These big box stores, they don't have flooring departments. They have a person helping you with flooring who may have been doing the sinks yesterday and tomorrow they're going to be stocking light bulbs. Empire Today is your best bet for a new floor. They live and breathe flooring and they will help you every step of the way. I mention how I go home, I don't know what to do. Well, you know what? Empire State takes over the process for you. Pick the right flooring and the right colors for your space. See how it looks with your furniture in your house. That's convenience. That is a lot.

unmatched. Get precise measurements taken and have all your questions answered so there are no surprises. With Empire today, you get clear up front and all inclusive pricing. Plus, you can schedule installation as soon as the next day. Nobody likes to wait. Schedule a free and home estimate today because some things are just better at home. P HLY listeners and viewers can receive a $350 discount by using promo code PHLY. Yes, you heard that right. A $350 discount with code PHLY. Restrictions apply. Visit Empire Today slash P HLY for full details. We've told you about our friend,

Art of Words, where he puts together these really beautiful pieces of artwork that include little Easter egg words all over the place that connect to the picture. You know, it's like a bunch of Eagles words making Lincoln Financial Field or Philly's words making the bank, all that fun stuff.

You can check that out at Art of Words.com, but in conjunction with that, we've got to give you our word of the day. There's no doubt, this is the easiest one we'll ever have. The word of the day is tush. Not push, tush. Tush. Tush, okay. Because everyone likes to tush, you said?

Yeah. Okay. Don't you think? Uh, staying away from that. I don't want to drop there. So. Well, that's a different. Tush situation.

It's a good word. And I'm a big fan of word of the day. I'm a big fan of the tush. We appreciate that. Okay. Give me the nine teams who were on the right side of history, Zach. So first off, this is from Adam Schefter from ESPN. Adam Schaeffler of ESPN, by the way, who I can, quick aside here, won a sports

Emmy last night. Congratulations. Congratulations to him, but less so. Congratulations. Or more than that, Adam Schaefter gets to be lumped in with another Emmy winner from last night, the sports Emmys. Eve Wolf. Shout out to Eve Wolf.

Two-time Emmy winner, baby. That is amazing. Are you willing to say for what? Are you keeping that part? No, she was up on the stage for the Red Sox documentary. That's awesome. That's awesome. Best feature length documentary.

Well, that is awesome. Congratulations. Seriously. Emmys, that's really cool. No big deal. What's she's going to do with the trophy? Well, she's already got one and she's going to have two now. It's great.

Do you put it behind you on the Zoom? Yeah, what a flex that is. For the Zoom calls, that's a great flex. I feel like maybe she has done it for a Zoom call. Yeah, you have to. I mean, the Emmy. Absolutely, yeah. The Emmy is, that's a big deal.

I wonder, I wonder, you know, it's like the second Super Bowl. How differently do you feel about the second Emmy? Ah, yeah. We need post game press. Maybe it's more like you, if you feel like you got more to do with it. I don't know. But yeah. So shout out to Eve.

There's, was there a speech involved or you just accepted? Well, she didn't give the speech. No, but she's up there when this speech is. That's really cool. Yeah, that's awesome. Congratulations. That's awesome. He was livestreaming that bad boy

right as the kids are going to bed. Celebration in the house? I was crying. Were you? Yeah. It's so nice. Honestly, that's really... It doesn't take much, but yeah.

No, but that's really nice. Absolutely. Bucket of tears. Proud brothers, an awesome thing. All right, game of the night. Wait, no, so I want to say that just because Adam's tweet started, NFL needed 24 votes today

to ban the push, but only got 22. The subject there is NFL, not the Packers, NFL. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I just want to bring that up. Okay, so obviously the Eagles. So that's the, so tears are the other, are the other nine.

Baltimore Ravens. Baltimore Ravens. So this one was reported. There's not an obvious connection here, but I do feel like that is an organization that usually is aligned with the Eagles. These are organizations that think similarly. Well, said, data-driven, tough-minded teams. Yeah.

Yeah. I think Bashati and Larry get along to some degree. Bashati's from South Philly. Mm. Do you ever think, when you think of Bashari, Do you think of Biscotti? You know what? At one point I did. Before I knew the correct pronunciation of the name.

Okay. Yeah, now I think of South Philly with Bessotti. Okay. Also, um, big cigar guy. Big cigar guy? Yeah, big cigar guy, so. No, you mean he likes cigars a lot or he likes big cigars? Or he's a big man who likes cigars.

No, he likes cigars a lot. Like whenever I see him, he's smoking a cigar. That's very funny. Yeah. That's a good bit, though, for like, you just show up like he's, uh, anyway. Go ahead. A good owner, too. A good owner, yeah.

Cleveland Browns. Cleveland Browns. Okay, so here you've got Howie calling Andrew Barry nonstop. You got to do this. You got to do this. We gave you Kenny Pickett basically for free. You owe me one. You know, we gave you Kat Hickman.

We let you take some people. You steal my stuff all the time. Do this for me. Stefanski, former Eagles intern. Okay, so two Philly connections there, the Stefanskin and Bashati. Detroit Lions. Okay, this one.

also was already out there. You know what? Good on the Lions. Yes. Because, you know, they would view themselves as the other main competitor in the NFC. They could take this opportunity to do something that they think knocks the Eagles down a peg.

I think Dan Campbell, you must think, is the kind of guy who would really be embarrassed by the idea of litigating out of play that is really mostly just about who's stronger than the other team. Well said. And he's been on record saying, you have to stop it. You have to learn how to stop it.

If you're going to be the puff your chest out, man, man, man, man, head coach. You can't vote against the tush push. Just right down there, circle back to the lines because there's one thing they have that no other team on this list has, okay? Okay. Jacksonville, Jaguars.

Jaguars, that's an interesting one. Okay. You know, we gave you Nick Foles all those years ago. We took it out of the kindness of our hearts to let him go somewhere. This is one where there's not a ton of direct connections. So that's a, to me, that is a good, they moved the needle a little bit.

I feel like that's one where they didn't necessarily call in a favor. Kelsey or Ferrari or Lurie won the room on that one. You got to understand, James Gladstone views football. This is evolutionary, right? The game is changing. Let's not, you know, yeah. It is a beautiful, beautiful thing. If we're going to tell our kids that football is about who's tougher.

Like, well, you can't take that. I don't know. Yeah. That's a good one. Okay, that's an interesting one. Miami Dolphins. Miami Dolphins. Okay, this one, Jeffrey Lurie and Stephen Ross are very close.

Exactly. Right? This is like, it's like maybe his best friend among the owners we've heard. Yes. And so like, you know, like Stephen, you got to do me this one. Like, come on. I mean, they run into each other at the same Palm Beach coffee shops or wherever. I'm trying to think where you'd go.

What would be the equal? I don't know. You think Jeffrey and Stephen Ross are going to coffee shops? Let's see. No, I don't know. Unless they have the same yacht barista. Yeah, so we're, so, all right, the same restaurant. You know, they're, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, you know, Jeffries or Stephen's going to the bathroom, passes Jeffrey's table. Good to see you. By the way, you know, let's catch up afterwards about that play. Yeah. But they're down there. I think it's more, they're good enough friends that Jeffries probably got some dirt on Stephen.

Oh, okay. I'm like, Stephen, if you don't vote for this, you're going to, everybody's going to find out what you did at the spa. Speaking of that, the New England Patriots. Okay, now I'm going to tell you why I think the New England Patriots voted for this. Because Robert Kraft hates Roger Goodell. Hmm, okay.

I push this thing off. Yeah. Interesting. I think Robert Kraft voting to keep the Tush Push is less about supporting Jeffrey Lurie and more about, I was going to say throwing his finger up in the air at Roger Goodell.

I mean this also, Mike Frable has a big role in the Patriots organization. We know that. That's true. He's been outspoken about not voting against it. Similarly to Campbell,

like, you know, be a man lineup and stop to play. Exactly. Okay. The New Orleans Saints. Kellyn Moore. This is Nick Siriani, like, Kellyn, you're dead to me

if you don't get if you don't vote for this. Write that down too as something to circle back to. Okay. Because that's a very interesting nugget. Just warning you. That's a little tease for what's coming. I think you're going to tell me that the Cardinals did not vote for it as what you're going to tell me.

And. Oh, really? Really? Okay. Just wait until you get to that. Okay. The New York Jets. New York Jets.

Trying to think of the connection here. Yeah. I mean, this is like a thank you for Elijah Riley. Aaron Glenn is coming from the Dan Campbell thing. You know, line up and stop it. He's a former defensive player. Yeah, this is another one where maybe I'm going to give him credit for winning over the room here because that's not an easy connection.

And yeah, I could see that one. Maybe they want to use it with Justin Fields this year. Maybe. The Tennessee Titans. Oh, after you threw them under the bus for how well they run the team. Yeah, I mean, this one, the Eagles deserve a lot of credit because the way that, you know, they sort of cut that organization by taking A.J. Brown away and then getting the general manager fired, for them to still support the Eagles, tells you they made a compelling argument. Well, I'm going to ask you a little life question here, okay? Who do you consider close? Well, I mean, who would you consider close to it? I mean, I won't take this personally, okay? Someone who you've worked with or someone who's an usher in your wedding? It depends.

Okay. Well, I don't really, I mean, ushers, okay. Or, yeah. Yeah, it depends. I bring this up because we talk about Nick Siriani with Kellynne Moore and Jonathan's Ganon and Shane Steichen, Tennessee Titans general manager Mike Borgonzi and usher in Nick Siriani's wedding. Oh, well, that's a good one then.

Yeah. So, and. I think he, maybe he called in that favor. Called in that favor. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah, maybe so.

I tell you what, I don't think. In fact, I know. that there is not another Eagles podcast live right now talking about the tush push and giving you the info that Mike Borganzi was an usher at Nick Siriani's wedding. That is Zach Berman's superpower. We are lucky to have you. So I appreciate that.

So those are the teams. Okay. So let's go to the second part. Let's not go to the lines first. The second thing. Not among this. The Arizona Cardinals and the Indianapolis Colts. Yeah.

Yeah, Nick is going to have to be pissed. Statute of limitations, has that expired? Because those guys said, Shane especially, said at the owner's meeting. So, like, he's got Nick's back. Well, a few things there. Maybe Shane doesn't have the clout in that organization. Yeah.

You know, maybe that's Ursa. I mean, Ersay's voting for whoever gave him the last bump. I mean, all Roger has to do to get him on his side is just sort of slip him something. So I got a note before this, like, you know, you might, you know, maybe this could be a, a, good short or vibe something on the

push push and I'm like this was when I was coming in I'm thinking we'll probably end up doing the whole show on it and there might be some some shorts from this that we can pull. I don't know if that's one but that's talking about going viral.

That's that's jail and smoking the cigar. No. But yeah, so the Colts and the Cardinals don't vote against so maybe and now I know you're of the opinion that Jonathan Gannon might be a little I don't know whether it's political or too, I don't want to say two-faced, but like speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

I think that's an unfair thing to say that I characterize him as, but okay. No, it is unfair. You're right. How did you characterize him as? I think he could be a little bit of a politician. Okay, okay, yeah. So that's probably better. I shouldn't say, yeah, okay. So that's how you've characterized him.

And yeah, I mean, Nick has been on record saying he knows these guys are going to vote for him. they got jobs because of this play. I think that's what Nick said. Yeah. So in the Colts case, I would imagine that's like the owner being like, yeah, Shane, you don't have the juice, right? Yeah, again, I feel like he was distracted by something else. In the Cardinals case, I don't think he was in his right mind. In the Cardinals case, maybe it's that too.

You know, bid well could be aligning with certain people. But that is, that's really interesting that those two teams voted against them. That's very interesting. Is there anybody else who you might have expected to be on the Eagle side who you were? surprised was not. Good question here. So I just processed this list on the way over here.

I'm trying to think who else spoke up for. Yeah, Jim Harbaugh, I thought would be on the Eagle side. I mean, I would think the Harbauls line up similarly. Also, Jim and Mike Vrabble, Jim Harbaugh and Mike Brable both had similar responses to at the owner's meetings. like the ambiguity of... Right, the language.

And I don't, I really don't think that they cleaned up the language enough. So that's, so that's one that surprises me a bit. The other one I would say is, I'm a little bit surprised at Carolina. Okay. Because I think David Tepper is trying to fashion himself as a lurry and has like, we know that he's made direct contact about like wanting to learn stuff from him. So for him to thumb his nose or his big brass balls in this case is a little bit of a surprise. Want another usher note?

I do. Brant Tillis from the Carolina Panthers. They're like, they're a cap guy, but he had a big role in the organization. Another usher in Nick Sirianni's way.

He got a lot of ushers. He had the groomsmen, which were his brothers and his best friends, then ushers. And now at the time, so, God, Nick's going to be watching. I don't know, I doubt Nick's going to be like,

Zach, I need to get that restraining order against your man, you know? No, Nick got married when he was with Kansas City and or he had just left Kansas City. No, yeah, he had just left Kansas City.

And of course, remind us all the people who may not remember as well as you do where he met his wife. At an apartment complex in Kansas City. And so Brent Tillis and Mike Burgundy were on that, there were young guys on that staff in Kansas City when Nick Siriani was there. Okay. There's, I believe there's a prominent media member. who was actually floating around Kansas City's complex at the time, too. Can you guess?

Flooding around? Like, I don't know. I shouldn't say floating around. No, worked for the chiefs at that time, but I don't know how long he was there. But just if you look at, if you match bios, can you guess a media member? Someone who I think does a terrific job,

I have a lot of respect for him. He comes off really well on television. I can learn a lot from his presentation, has good info, has good intel. Two can you name. Huh. No. Field Yates.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Interesting. And so the Lions note here. Yeah, so that's my other circle back. Of these 10 teams, so the nine other teams, the Lions are the only one that are playing the Eagles this season. Oh, that's a good note?

So all these other teams were like, get this out. we don't want to defend it this year. The lions are like, you know what? We're going to, yeah, yeah, we're going to try to line up and stop. Good for the lions. Exactly. Good for the lions. Yeah.

I think they deserve, I think they deserve a moderate amount of credit. Nothing crazy. Fran notes in the chat that Field Yates is your second favorite draft guy after Dan Bruegler. Fran Duffie is my favorite draft guy. No doubt about it. All right. Good rundown. I think that is all very interesting.

We're going to talk about on the other side, how the Eagles respond to this, we think, and the difficult day for Roger Goodell, because the pie is on his face. Right after these words from our sponsors. All right, we start with our friends at Glad Hair Restoration. If your hair line's been slipping and you think of, and you're thinking about doing something about it, listen up. Hair transplants aren't just cosmetic. They are real surgery. And if you're considering flying overseas to save a buck, think again. At Glat Hair by Morgan Stern Medical in Balakinwood, you're getting care from board certified surgeons with over 30 years of experience.

They follow strict U.S. safety standards and deliver results that actually last. And here's the best part. You can text them, a photo of your hair right now, and their team will take a look and let you know what options make sense for you. No pressure, just expert insight. Skip to travel, skip the risk. Get real care from a trusted local team. Text your photo or call 6109804,000, or visit glatthairmm.com. That's g-l-a-t-h-a-I-R-M-M-com.

That's Glat Hair by Morgan Stern Medical. Let's get that hairline back in the game. I mentioned those owners going to the coffee shop and you know what maybe maybe they're they don't see each other at the coffee shop because they're cutting out that daily coffee habit because when it comes to spending sometimes it's out of sight out of mind and they have rocket money and they look at their spending and they're like you know I'm spending too much money here or perhaps they're they're looking at streaming subscriptions that add up fast without noticing rocket money helps you spot patterns so you can do better so you can do something about them and keep more money in your

pocket. With prices going up on just about everything lately, being smart with your money is not just a good idea. It is essential. But managing subscriptions, tracking spending and cutting costs, it can sometimes feel overwhelming. Lucky for you, Rocket Money takes the guesswork out of it so you can easily make smart decisions. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and canceled your unwanted subscriptions. It monitors your spending and it helps you lower your bills so you can keep growing. Rocket money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. They automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save. Then you can ask them to negotiate them for you. They'll deal with customer

service so you don't have to. And you get alerts if bills increase in price. That's unusual, if there's unusual spending activity or if you're close to going over budget. Rocket money has over 5 million users and has saved the total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter our show name, P-H-L-I, Philadelphia Eagles

podcast in the survey so they know we sent you. Don't wait, download the Rocket Money app and tell them you heard about them from our show. And I think we can all agree that while the Eagles trip to Green Bay to play on Monday night football was already a spicy proposition, it is only going to be more delicious now. And so, if you want to join us at PHLY and the good folks at Philly sports trips at the game, Monday night, Eagles, Packers, just running the tush push every single play, shoving it down Mark Murphy's throat, you can be there if you win the sweepsticks. Here's what you need to do. All-P-H-L-Y.com slash PST-Fansweeps.

One lucky winner is going to get two tickets to the game to go on the plane to Green Bay. You stay in the hotel with the whole group. It's going to be fantastic. Now it's flying from Philadelphia. You need to know that. Terms and conditions apply. Once again, visit all-P-H-L-Y.com slash PST Fan Sweeps to enter. Check out Philly sports trips for the ultimate fan experience, including hassle-free travel packages,

to watch your favorite Philly teams on the road with everything from game tickets to tailgates, whether it's football, baseball, or beyond travel like a champion with the crew that bleeds Philly. Learn more at philly sports trips.com. How do you feel, Zach, about the Packers in all of this? Do you think that as far as Eagles fans are concerned, they are now enemy number one?

Well, I was reading the chat earlier during an ad read, and it certainly sounds like there are fans who are very anti-packers because of this. I think it is, look, they put their neck out proposing it. I've read reports that because they don't have an owner per se, that they're doing it on behalf of the NFL. The NFL pushed them to do it because it's not as if, like, Jeffrey Lurie can be anti-this owner. It doesn't create that type of friction that maybe,

if you feel like it's targeting the Eagles. so perhaps they were taking one for the team. I've also heard a theory that, as we said, Mark Murphy's out the door after this year. Maybe like... His lasting legacy. Or you do this and you have some type of cushy advisor role. Oh, I think it's a tip for tat.

Yeah, something like that. I've heard theories about that. Or it could just be that Packers Management doesn't like the play. I certainly understand it if even... Eagles fans are against the Packers because this, I am, I disagree with you and some others that like this is an anti-Eagles sentiment, but certainly like this play is popularized by the Eagles. And my point is invalidated a bit by I saw, I mentioned, this is the third time I mentioned Jory Epstein.

She does a great job. And she was talking to Jerry Jones and Jerry Jones said, and I'm paraphrasing here, maybe I'm not like anti the Tush Push. I just don't want the Eagles to get an advantage. And it could very well be the. Packers lost the Eagles twice last year. They lost them in the playoffs. The Eagles are the heavyweights in the NFC. And it's like anything you can do to try to take that away, you try and do it. I think it is very embarrassing for the Packers. I think it is emasculating for Roger Goodell.

I think, you know, the irony here is so much focus on the Eagles' tush-push when it is, in fact, Roger Goodell, who has shown his ass. Why he cares about this play so much, I will never know. For a while now, he has been trying everything he can to get rid of this play. He's calling in favors. And yet, the commissioner of the NFL doesn't have enough clout with these guys that he can get it, that he can get it banned. It is pathetic. He should be ashamed of himself. And one of two things is true.

Either he is a genius and the idea that we've had that, they just want this discourse to take over the entire NFL off season to distract from things that are actually more important, maybe a little bit more untoward that are going on in the NFL. I think that is a little bit marginally possible.

If that is not the case, he should retire out of embarrassment. It's truly pathetic. It's truly pathetic. And I think that there is a really nice narrative here that on the same day that he gets rebuffed on this, the owners decide they're not going to even worry about renewing his contract.

They're going to, they'll talk about that another time. Oh, is that what happened? Yes. Oh, I thought he got the contract extension. I saw that they decided to table that. Oh, so maybe. Yeah. So to that point, the fascinating thing about this to me, if there's anything, like the inside

baseball of it, is that my understanding, and I could be wrong here, my understanding with a lot of these votes is that it doesn't even get to vote if they don't feel they have the votes. Right. Right. And like the Eagles, for all those years, the Eagles were trying to change the helmet thing and change these rules, and they would bring it up. And then they would, and then they would rescind it because they don't feel they have the votes. And for what you said, you don't want to be the team that proposes something. And then you can't come through.

It's like once you show your card, you have to do it. And listen, all of the reporting heading into this was this is probably going to pass. Yeah. You know, I'm not guessing at what sources are. But you would imagine that that's coming from the league office. Exactly. Right? They thought they had the votes.

Yes. Surprise. Surprise, bitch. Well, you're, look, you're right. It's, I lived. It's, you know, it's the, it's the meme. It's like, it is so pathetic for Roger. He must be furious.

Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely right. And I understand, you know, I can sometimes be idealistic and naive. Like, I don't know how, how all this stuff works. But I do know. there's a lot of lobbying and politicking and this guy calls this guy, this woman calls this, you know, like, you know, because it's, everyone's calling each other to try to kind of figure it out. And yet, the league has a sense of oftentimes voting is like a formality, right?

You know. And so the reporting, I don't discredit any of the reporters. Like, they're being told, yeah, this is going to get overturned. Their expectation was that it was going to pass. Exactly. So perhaps Jeffrey Lurie gave this impassioned thing and it swayed the vote. and it swayed the votes, or Jason Kelsey comes in, or John Ferrari says, like, perhaps that's what it is.

Or perhaps the league didn't have the votes that they didn't have the Jews that they thought and that they misjudged it. But yeah, you're not supposed to, from my understanding, have something go to vote and then kind of walk back without your pants on, so to speak, right? Like you... With your ass showing.

Yeah, like you push it to the finish line. Like, you bring it there because you know it's going to get there. It's kind of like, I mean, This might be a bad comparison, but it's like you don't propose to the woman unless you know she's going to say yes. Because then I'm always like the people who go on these vacations and propose. What do you do the rest of the vacation? And she says no, right? So, yeah, you have to know she's going to say yes.

So, yeah, you don't bring it to vote unless you know you get the votes. So that surprised me. It's really delicious for, you know, someone who's been tired of Roger Goodell for a long time. Do you buy that Packers theory? Do you think the Packers feel staunch about this? Or do you think they did it on behalf of the league? I bet it's probably a little bit of both. I'm sure that they support the banning of it.

But to be the team that actually proposes it, maybe this was Roger calling in a favor. And as you said, like in Schefter describing the teams, he doesn't say the Packers, he says the NFL. You, I, it's really funny. And it's, and from an Eagles fan standpoint, you know, to be like, we won the Super Bowl. Amazing.

Yes. Then the league is so upset about us winning the Super Bowl that they're coming after us. They're going to try to change a play just because we are bigger and stronger than everybody else. They're trying to change the rules of the game. That's annoying,

but even in and of itself, it is a pat on the back to how good we are. And then they failed, and we were still able to push them off. I mean, it really could not be better for Eagles fans. What's your read on what happened? Because you tend to have a good sense of this stuff. I mean, I don't know.

That's pure speculation, but it's funny. I mean, there must have been, there must have been like... Undecided voters? Two to four swing voters, right? And maybe it's like real life or they're just really dumb guys who aren't paying any attention

and just read the last thing they said and that's why Jason Kelsey comes in the room. You want the last whisper in their voice. I'm sure that some of these things are like called in favors a little bit. Sure. But what happened? is that Roger Goodell was embarrassed in front of the whole league.

Yeah, I mean, Roger's been, like, he's made these media appearances at the draft where he was talking about things about this, you know, it's not a football play. And, like, I mean, usually when you're the commissioner, you're supposed to be Switzerland about this thing, right? And the fact that he was saying that made me think that he was speaking on behalf of, like, you know, 24 voters here that he had. so because he essentially works for 32 teams he doesn't he have other things to worry about yeah I mean yes and no like if this is if this is important to enough owners it has to be

I don't believe it's important to owners I believe it's important to him for a reason that I have not yet figured out yeah I mean I got to say this like you know I I think I hate butts he's anti butts I think I said earlier they discuss like when he was a kid here's what happened. When Roger Goodell was a child, he had a slightly bigger butt than normal. And some kids called it out. They gave him a nickname when he was in third grade.

He was Big Butt Roger. And ever since then, he's been anti-butts. Any discussion of butts has been untoward for him. And so for him to have overcome that bullying when he was a child and grown to be the commissioner of the NFL, he's making $50 million a year or whatever it is, more money than he could ever have, wasn't enough.

He needed to litigate butts out of the world. And when the butts came to the NFL, he said, that's enough. I got to get rid of this. It's been a story his whole life. And even then, couldn't get it done. Really pathetic. Big butt, Roger, can't make it happen. That's an interesting theory.

I don't know if that's the case. I am... Call him Roger Goodbutt. If I truly think about this, I don't think the health and safety stuff comes up to snuff. Like there's just not, you know, the reason why you look at data is because, like, it guides you,

and there's not data that suggests this. I think the only, I think the reason he is, because it is a high percentage play. And if more teams do this and they're as successful at it, perhaps it does take away from the aesthetics. But as Jeffrey Lurie said, you, you know, there was a time when the forward pass wasn't considered aesthetically pleasing. If you're watching a game and there's, let's say there's a team that's like, you know what,

I'm just going to try to get two yards, three yards, three yards, and just matriculate down the field this way. Like, what's the slippery slope to that? That's the only logical thing I can think of is that the same way that baseball at some point, like, took the shift away because they were saying it's taking away from the quality of play. perhaps they saw a future where maybe there's a bad passing offense or teams are good enough at this that they don't get one yard but they get three

and that it becomes like a three yard and clouded dust type thing. I can't think of it logically, but to me like that's football and everything evolves. We've seen it. This was the whole thing on New Heights. I'm sorry, yeah, on New Heights was the 92 percenters, right?

This was once a 90 plus percent play for the Eagles. That's now, as Jeffrey Lurie said, at the owners meetings, they need to get better at it, right? There are teams that are going to figure out ways to defend this. Certainly, we saw officials call it in different, you know, they were throwing more flags on the Eagles. Sure. That's Rogers behest. Yeah. So I think this is going to continue to evolve. Yeah, there are arguments that I can get behind. if you think that it's unfair to be able to push the ball carrier

like it used to be. I think that's a fine argument. Maybe you shouldn't be able to push the person with the ball. You know, everything is so offense tilted anyway. Do they need this extra push? Probably not. But that's not what this is. They're singling it out at the line screen.

So it's very specifically this play. I think I would have been open to that. You know, maybe you want to tell me, this is not the argument they're making, but maybe you want to tell me it's a difficult play to spot. Like it's difficult to litigate from that standpoint. We want to be precise. We are not able to be precise on this.

But again, then you're just going to do a quarterback sneak and that's not going to be that much easier. Like, there are arguments to be made. They are not making those arguments. It's so silly and focused on the aesthetics of the play. Of course it's a football play. Yes.

It's more of a football play than Hail Mary. Yeah. Like, this is what football was invented to do. Also, are you going to take out the quarterback kneel? Like, that's not a, you know. So now, you didn't answer the question that you asked me, and you have a better sense of this than I do. What do you think the sentiment for the Packers will be?

Do you think they join the Cowboys and the Giants and the commanders as chief rivals now because of this? Oh, I think so. Okay. Yeah, I think I would, no doubt about it, the Packers, I think, are the number one out-of-division rival for the Eagles, right now. Interesting. Don't you think? And by the way, let's talk about it more, Zach, in overtime. Hit it a little early. That's okay. My bad. No, not you. We weren't on top of it.

Sorry. We dropped the ball. It's okay. So let me ask you. Did you ever think we would have such a newsy show on May 21st, Zach? No, I mean, this week has turned in, you know, it's like, I got to say, Sunday night. I'm not like a Sunday scary. Is that the turn? Is that the term people use? But this job, it's not a new job anymore. This job's kind of changed things up in terms of like, all right, we have to have something to talk about every day. So Sunday night, I'm like trying to figure out like what's the show that's going to be. We've had Monday, Nick Seriani Contract Extension, Tuesday, Janelle and Nick talk Wednesday.

So like our ideas, we've been able to push ideas, you know, keep them in the holster here. but that game that as you said of yours can sign up for our contest that join Phillies there's going to be Eagles fans there with Philly Sports trips.com slash PST fan sweeps Yeah what do you what do you Do you think that's Tush Push week And do you think the Eagles do anything

Do you think like Nick Siriani who who is Do I think they should call it Tush Push on their first offensive play from scrimmage? Yes I do Okay Do I think they will know Do you think they lean into it more in that game? And Nick's like, hey, we just scouted this out. We think this is going to be.

Here's what I will predict. I don't think they're going to go overboard on it. But at some point, they will line up for a tush push. The crowd will boo. They will convert. I'm guessing in this situation, let's say it's for a touchdown. And then Nick will do the ear. Nick will cup the ear after a successful push push conversion.

Alan Iverson in LAMVo. That's a good prediction. It's a good prediction. And Nick will be absolutely right to do so. Do you think percentage-wise... Nick deserves, they should... The week heading into that game, they should not feed Nick. Yeah.

They should keep him caged up in a dark room so that he can be at his absolutely most unhinged on the sideline for that game. Yeah, they should say, you know, there should be like, you know, the fake headlines. And they're like, there's a story out there that Matt Lafleur and Jordan Love are the best quarterback coach quarterback combination in this game.

And that there's a, there's a, I saw someone in the Packers locker room say Frank Reich is doing a bad job at Stanford. And then you say, and then they plan a question in the press conference. Nick, there was someone in the Packers locker room who said is Mount Union even football program and like you just get next blood boiling here's the latest here's the latest rankings of the most attractive NFL head coaches lefleurs at the top yes yeah yeah uh you know they there was um you know you show the pregame interview and they say you know larry carris one said you know players not plays and matt lafleur said who oh gosh it's it's it just becomes personal yeah

oh i like that yeah i like that a lot now i'm seriously though do you think the run this any more this season than they did last year? Not really. Okay. I think it's a bad thing, yeah, there's no reason for them to. I think it's a bad part for the course. I think what you said about, I think they're going to dress this up more this year. I think they're going to have different variations of it.

I think they're going to lean into the idea that, hey, you think this is automatic? Like, this is a football play, and we're going to have this play action off it, and we're going to have this end around off it. And, you know, last year they were going mainly to the left side. Maybe they go behind tackle a little more. Maybe there's, like, different things they can do from it. To me, what they should do now is, I think they, I think they, which we saw today, like them, you know, puffing their chest out on social media, which they deserve to do. I think the more that they embrace it now, like we are the tush push team, the touch pushes us,

the more next off season, it makes it even clear that to go again, this play is to specifically target us. Sure. Okay. But I like the point you've, you've had, though, that this is, and you said this on Anthony's show, and you referenced it a bit earlier, but you didn't kind of get fully into it, is that when you win the Super Bowl, you can't play that nobody, like everyone's against us. You can't do that, you know?

And I even asked Nick yesterday, one of the questions I had for Nick is that how do you manufacture that friction, right? This is it. like, hey, the league doesn't think we earned this, right? Do you think that's going to be the talking point from it? I think, well, yeah, that's why it is a win-win for them. I think if it had been banned, I think they would have been in great shape just as much because they'd get to point to this.

Yeah, I think this is something, you know how sports works, whether there is a slight or not, if it's perceived and you can use it, they'll take it. And so, yeah, I think absolutely this will be something that I don't think they will do it publicly too much beyond, you know, today. Maybe the next time Nick talks, depending on how soon it is, you might say something about it. But I would be very surprised if behind the scenes, it's not something that they're like, you know,

they don't think we're good enough without it, you know, they're coming after us. Absolutely. They will use anything they can to make it us against them. And so Bo Wolf, who's never afraid to ask the pertinent questions, you know, someone asks the general, Nick, your reaction to the Tush push, not getting bad, Nick gives the, you know, he says, you know how I feel about it, yada, yada, yada.

And Bo chimes in from the left side and says, Nick, you said at the owner's meetings that you know you had three votes. Yeah. How do you feel about the Cardinals and Colts not voting? Yes. What's Nick's answer? He's going to smile and say, I don't want to talk about that. Yes.

But that's an important question. Yeah. That's an interesting one. Johnny Gans. What's Johnny Gans say? P.HNX, if you're watching. Depends who he's talking to. Yeah.

Whatever they want to hear is the answer. Yeah. Super chats to get to from today's show. Claude de Bouss Hey, he says, too bad all these owners were not as highly coordinated as their puppet Sean McDermott thinks a certain group of hijackers were. Sean McDermott, that post aside, thank you for your contribution. Sean McDermott.

Him celebrating 9-11 aside. Sean McDermott was a coach who was outspoken against this play. Yeah. Nick made a reference to. or was it Jeffrey made a reference to the bills, you know, tried run, no, no, Nick did. They tried running this in the AFC championship game, right? The bills ran this the second most of any team in the league last year.

Yeah. What do you think Sean McDermott? Do you think Sean McDermott leans into this? I mean, they have, in theory, they have a quarterback who can move a pocket, or who can move a pile, rather. They have a big interior offensive line. Like, they should be good at this play. Yeah, I mean, they're going to keep running it.

Yeah. I think they asked him that. Like if it doesn't get banned, will you stop running? And he said no. His whole thing was health and safety. So he's like, yeah,

but we're willing to put our $300 million hour quarterback on the line. Exactly. I think it probably didn't mean as much to Sean McDermott as it did. Like I think Sean McDermott was probably on the side of us getting banned. I don't think he's going to lose sleep over it.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that Roger's going to sleep for a week. I think Roger's going to sleep just fine. I think he's going to get that new contract. I don't know. He'll be good. It's his summertime.

I don't know. I mean, listen. if you're an owner and you're thinking to yourself does this guy deserve to be the commissioner and you just saw him fail at what should have been an easy lift for him I don't know

why does that guy deserve $100 million a year? That's that... I mean, in fairness, that is the easiest job in the world. Well, it's not the easiest job in the world, but it's not... Dollar for dollar, it is the easy job. I mean, look, you have...

There is no one who makes as much money for doing as replaceable a job as Roger Goodell does. Yeah, now, look, anybody you pick out on the street could be installed as NFL commissioner tomorrow, and the league would not change but a bit. Yeah, I mean, I think the challenge in that job is you're massaging a lot of egos, right? And you know this even better than I do,

or as well as I do, is that there's a lot of pettiness and a lot of like weird rivalries and like then your job is to be the you have to answer to 31 people who are let's why didn't you make me enough money this year yeah and it's it's like a blank measuring contest sometimes too right like yacht let's use yacht measuring contests yeah it's it's like everyone is and like everyone thinks they're slighted right you know and with this with that you went to this game you this this team got that schedule you you talk to that you know you're closer with this person and um yeah that's like uh i don't think you know i can't speak for all the owners but for for something like um you know humility is not like the the guiding principle how they operate right yeah and so you have to

so yeah no i'm not saying that's like a hard thing but that's a big part of that job is is the people who decide your page you know you're you're managing them right so that's that's a big part of the job. I'm not defending Roger Godot. I'm just saying like his, and the league's revenue has just grown considerably, which is ultimately how he's judged. Polar Jam says ZB for NFL commission. I second that.

And you know what would come right after that. Labor Day. The President's Day. Hey, that's, you know what? Talk about a measuring country. I'd have a substantive thing there. So I made a joker or not a joke. I said honestly that they vote on real honest things, like real important things here. And then they vote on some things that's like, this is what you're spending your time on.

Yeah. Okay. So also announced today was the NFL's instituting a new award. Yes. Oh, and the onside kick thing. Yeah, the onsides kick. The one you are, you can. But the new award now is protector of the year.

Offensive linemen award. Talk about being slated. Lane Johnson. I mean, and I really like, for full disclosure, I really like Lane. Lane's been awesome to cover. I think he might go down as one of the best players in Eagles, as the best player in Eagles history, perhaps, by the time his career is finished. But Lane is one who, like, he takes lights.

Lane's going to go after this award with everything in his, in his will. What do you think of the name? Protector of the year? Because it makes it like it's just a path-blocking award. I agree. I agree. Yeah, it's a, yeah. Why can't it just be linemen of the year? It's a good question. It's probably not as sexy, you know, protector of the year.

It's like, but. Yeah. Yeah. But you know Lane's going to go after this award, right? But yeah, it feels like it's totally disregarding half the job. How do you think it's, now, I imagine it's voted the same way. There's a panel of, you know, same way the MVP's voted for. But I'm fascinated to see the criteria of those who vote on this.

Yeah. I don't know. And then what's the onside kick thing? So anyone who's trailing now can announce an onsite's kick. It used to be during a certain period of the game. And it's from the 34-yard line, I believe, said the 35. So that's the only, I still think the proposal that the Eagles had is what they should do. You should have a fourth and 25, or was it, fourth and 20, fourth and 30? I know.

I thought it was 14 or something like that. that it was less than 20. Oh, I think it was more than that. I could be wrong. I'll look it up, but I think an offensive play on fourth down will be a good way to go. Let's see what it was. Yeah, that adds excitement to the game.

Google is terrible, and so it's harder to get these results. And then, yeah, we spoke earlier. The other big thing was the Eagles calling Kelsey in, and I mentioned how Kelsey felt his comments were misconstrued, but what's interesting too is Kelsey, even though he was ostensibly there to lend clarity to it, the fact that he walked in with Jeffrey Lorry, the fact that he is and he played for the Eagles, he was very much viewed as like the Eagles star witness in this. And it's being characterized as like Jason Kelsey helped push this over the finish line, pun intended.

So I think Jason Kelsey's legend in Philadelphia grows. after this as well. 20, fourth and 20. Fourth and 20 from the 35? I don't know what they're. So I think this... It is impossible to use Google right now. I think they should just institute that

and said the onsides kick. Yeah, I agree with that. We have one more here. One more super chat from Bort. How has the Wolf Household, historically played man to man, adjusted to the new zone heavy scheme of parenting? Today's the one month

birthday for a little. It's been a wonderful month. Yeah, we've been doing very well. Knock on wood. All systems go. It's been great. I don't have, that's more specifics, but I don't know. It's been wonderful.

It's awesome. Yeah. What's new in your neck of the woods? A long baseball game last night. I'm an assistant coaching. I reach team, and I feel bad. I miss. Oh, that is an interesting new color to you leaving the game early for the Brandon

Graham books. I didn't know you were also a coach. Assistant coach, and I've missed a lot. I've missed too many games this year. But that was, I promised reading my cut in my nephew that they would go. And look, that's an awesome experience. Brandon, by the way, I went to the book signing. Brandon was so gracious.

And like, it's incredible how nice he was to everyone. And my son is reading this book every night. Like, we almost memorize it. all the different letters. So highly recommended if you have a kid. 26 of them, I believe. What's that? 26, right?

Yeah, no, but each letter stands for something. So Z is zest. I don't want to give it all away. Ooh, zest. Yeah, yeah. Z is Z stuff. How about X? X factor.

Okay. Yeah. Again, I want you to read the book. I want people to read the book. And I should say it's not just, it's not just Brandon, Leslie Van Arsdale, was the co-writer. She did a terrific job with it as well.

Can I ask one more letter? Yes. Q. If you're doing a letter thing, those are going to be the tough ones to get. Yeah, I believe it was quiet, like how quiet time is really valuable to you. Oh, okay.

You know, like a chance to think and gather your thoughts. That's good. Yeah. Not Keish. No. Quail. No. No, he's not used quail.

I know it wasn't quail. I think it was quiet. Anyways, the baseball last night, I'm trying to, well, I'm curious your opinion. Let's hear it. How do you feel about like the kid pitch first? Because this is my point, and I could be wrong here. What are the rules in your league?

Because the rules in our league are also a little bit. So the kid pitches and... The whole time. Yeah, well, it's like everyone changes pitchers every inning. Right. But you've got to have six pitchers. Yeah. But there's

So if you there's no walks If you have four balls The coach comes in and pitches Oh interesting Right yeah Otherwise there be a lot of walks Yeah And then when the coach pitches

Do they have to swing? What's the or you just? Well no they can strike out So they can strike out normally With the kid pitcher Right Or they can strike out with the coach pitcher As interesting

As well but Control isn't like A hallmark at this age Yeah Right But my point So this is eight-year-olds playing, okay? And, like, I'm not...

Seven and eight, right? It's eight and under? Eight and nine, I think. Oh, okay, so it's okay. Eight and nine. Now, read seven. He plays an age up in this, but June birthday, that kind of thing.

So, again, I'm not like a participation trophy guy, so to speak. Yeah, we know that. But I do think that baseball in particular, you want people, you want the ball in play. You want like, you want people hitting the ball. You want people fielding the ball. You don't want it to be like just either a guy throws really hard and strikes him out or, you know, so I'm more of an advocate

at this age of either, I think, I know some of these do pitching machines. There's funding, you know, that can be hard to do. I think it should be like coach pitch up until a certain age because I want to promote movement. I want it like there's so many times when like the guys are just in the field just I don't want to say lolly gagging but like I want I want the ball and play I and you know kids at this age they still they're they're like hearts are broken when they strike out and that's a very real thing you have to learn to get out you have to learn to strike out but I want you know the purpose of when a kid pitches is you're trying to get the guy out when a coach pitches you're trying to pitch to contact and I feel contact is so important to get the kids to love the baseball like to get you know you so I I really want like a push in at a certain you know up until a certain age promote contact promote like fielding the ball playing defense um am I wrong there or no you're totally right as far as I'm concerned the only goal at this age yes for seven and eight

year old should be to get them to like it enough to come back next year exactly and if they are standing around the whole time they are not going to like it as much okay so we're on It gets so boring. Yes. The league that Casey's in is in is a machine pitch for two innings, kid pitch for two innings, then machine pitch for two innings. Which if you're going to have the kids pitch, I think that's the right way to do it. You're only asking two kids to pitch.

But, you know, I don't want to do all the, like when I was coming up, but this was the age they would have been coach pitch. Sure. I think my understanding is they went away from the coach pitch for liability reasons because maybe kids, coaches were not going to. enough and they were hitting kids and like it's different if a kid hits a kid and if a coach hits a kid Casey got hit by the machine like the machine is terrible. Interesting. I haven't seen the machine pitch. Okay. That's interesting. The machine is because they're not, you know, for funding reasons,

you're not getting like a good machine. Oh yeah. It's one of these little mechanical things, right? And so it is not consistent. It comes in way too fast. Yeah. And so like the first four games of the year, there are like three balls in play the whole game. Yeah, okay. What is less, like, of course they're not going to have fun. Yeah. As the season has gone on, there have been more balls in play. Everybody's having more fun.

Everybody knows each other more. Yeah. But yeah, like, I'm the only goal should be, let's have fun. Thank you. Exactly. Come back next year. This is not, this is not the age where, like, you need to be arguing with umpires. So that's the other thing.

Yeah. And, like, caring so much about the game that no one's ever changing position. You know, like, give the kids a chance to understand and have fun playing the game. All right, you and I are 100% in agreement here. And the other thing, too, and this was a big thing that, like, I'm really trying to push. And again, like, I don't want to overstep because, A, I'm not the head coach. And B, I don't want to parent someone else's kids, right? But a real vexing thing to me is, like, when you complain about officials or referees.

And so one, so one byproduct of this is that because the kids, kids know that if the pitcher throws four balls, the coach will come in and pitch, that some kids just are keeping the bat on their shoulder. So the rule in this league is you against the machine, you can't walk. Okay. You get six pitches, essentially. You could strike out on three swings, but if the pitch, because the machine is so bad, that sometimes it's like way over the case. Like over the weekend, two kids got hit in the head by the machine. That's bad. Yeah. Yeah. What are we doing? But then when the kids pitch, you can walk. Yeah. Okay. So, That's the only difference.

So, like, some kids are just keeping the bat on their shoulder, waiting for the coach to come in. And then that even prolongs it. But so, so then the coach who's umpiring widens the strike zone that try to promote more swinging. Or there'll be a ball that's over the plate and the kids aren't. So then every kid, like, you know, there's never an actual strike that they don't swing at, right? They're always complaining about it.

And now I'm trying to tell them, like, you know, don't complain about the ups. Don't complain about the refs. like all the time you know you're playing against the other team you're not playing against the um you're not playing against the ref but i just feel at this age it's so important to love the sport have fun out there enjoy being part of a team not like uh yeah like being out there for the right reasons is so important yeah all right good yeah we we we we totally agree all right absolutely all right good stuff that was that we had a nice newsy thing, then we had a little

overtime conversation at the end. Good stuff. Great episode on a Wednesday in May. We appreciate everybody sicking around and hanging out with us. Congratulations to everybody for the big butt news. And Roger, tough titties.

Sorry for you, buddy. We will be back tomorrow. Thursday, 2 o'clock. I think we got a forehander again, which is very exciting. Fran will be in studio, the professor as well. I think Fran is going to join us on Friday, too. So we've got all kinds of fun stuff coming down the pike this week. We will talk to you tomorrow.

Thank you to Bree for producing today. Thanks to True Mark Financial. And as always, we love you.