PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Top 10 Eagles “What If?” scenarios, from Carson Wentz’s knee injury to the Donovan McNabb draft

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

Eagles history could be dramatically different if Howie Roseman never returned to power or if Chip Kelly traded for Marcus Mariota or if the Eagles chose Nick Foles over Carson Wentz. Zach Berman and Fran Duffy discuss 10 scenarios and the ramifications of those What Ifs? Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Good evening and welcome to a special edition of the PHLY Eagles show. I'm Zach Berman. That's Fran Duffy. We're brought to you by DoDat Dental, the Eagles official dentist, and we have a fun show tonight. It's rank week here at PHLY. And we are looking across all the sports at the what-ifs. So we're looking at 10 what-ifs in Eagles history. Frank, good to see you tonight. It's great to see you too.

Obviously, there's a lot of possibilities that we could have gone down with this, right? And I think you said you wanted to focus on like the last 25 years of Eagle's history. Obviously, if you go beyond that, there are even more that we could dive into. But there should be a fun discussion tonight. Yeah, I think that's important to emphasize here is that we're not necessarily getting into the 60s, the 70s, the 80s. The farthest back we went was Jerome Brown, which we'll get into. But most of these, frankly, have been in recent history, times when you and I have been around

the team and we can really provide, you know, insight into some of the, the fun sliding doors. We did this with the draft a few weeks ago, and we'll dig into some of these hot topics here. So we're going to count down from 10 to 1. So you're going to have to stick around for the biggest what if. And number 10 is the one that I just mentioned. What if Jerome Brown never tragically passed away in 1991?

And Jerome Brown, obviously a phenomenal player. I have had the pleasure, Zach, of going back and watching film of those defenses. when he was obviously a huge part of the Eagle's success. And he was just such an amazing player. And those defenses were chock full of great players at all three levels. But, you know, obviously, Reggie White was a Hall of Famer. Jerome Brown was right there with him. And you just saw the raw talent, the ability to win with quickness off the ball.

But then also his strength, his power. Obviously, I wasn't watching film. I didn't watch film of every single team in the league from that time period. I just lacker you are. Hard to believe, though, that there would be, I don't know, two or three better interior players at that time frame than what Jerome Brown was putting on the field at veteran stadium. Yeah, it's, it's, and we all know the, the tragic death in an automobile accident. At the time of his death, he was, he was one of the elite defensive line. And like you said,

back to back, first team all pros. Part of that great, you know, the Eagles 91 defense, was perhaps the best in NFL history. Number one in total defense, number one in past defense. number one in run defense. Number one in sacks, tied for first and takeaways. So a legendary defense, he was kind of in the prime of his career. Reggie White's there. So, I mean, what if, from an Eagles perspective, if he, if he didn't pass away, the Eagles returned that great defense.

And you have to remember, 1991, I think they started like seven different quarterbacks, right? So the 92 season, Randall Cunningham was healthy pretty much that, you know, for most that year. They went 11 and 5. That's, that's Reggie White's last year with the Eagles. Perhaps that's the team that pushes through and the way the Eagles are viewed in the 90s is different. Perhaps Reggie White stays in Philadelphia to play with Jerome Brown

and the middle of the 90s and the late 90s, you're seeing this great defensive line combination. There's, of all the what-ifs, this is obviously the most tragic. Like this goes beyond football. but it's a what if that I think still stings Eagles fans when they think back to number 99 and no players worn 99 since Jerome Brown. Yeah, I mean, you and I were kids.

We were roughly our son's age when this happened, right? And so our viewpoint on it, especially because the Eagles hadn't won anything up to that point. So even as we got into our formidable years as football fans, you know, growing up as Eagles fans, and, you know, you talk about those teams, our parents, our family members would talk with such reverence about those early 90s defenses. And so you remove a great player like that from that unit.

And your point about Reggie White and what that means for Reggie's future in Philadelphia, if that defense, it was already a legendary unit, but if they are even a tick above that, if that team goes into the postseason and has more success, does he now say, you know what, I do want to stick around. Maybe I don't want to go ring chasing with Green Bay Packers and become that huge free agent signing when that opens up. And so I think when you're looking at that, the butterfly effects of Jerome Brown's unfortunate passing,

yeah, I mean, they certainly were felt by this franchise for years. Yeah, 27 years old. So as I said, that's the most tragic one. There's no natural transition. But we will go to number nine here, which is a what if from, you know, relative, it's relative recent Eagles history. And that's what if Michael Vick did not throw that interception against Green Bay in the playoffs in January 2011.

So the 2010 season, if you remember, that was the year Michael Vick enters the lineup. The offense was electric for most of the year just to kind of give the scenario for all the viewers and listeners. The Eagles trailed by five points. They're at home. It's the wild card round of the playoffs. They have a first in 10 from the 27-yard line. and Michael Vic throws it off to Riley Cooper, the ball gets intercepted,

the Eagles lose that home playoff game, and they had this pristine, they had a road ahead of them where you didn't really have to squint to see a Super Bowl. So I have a lot of thoughts here, but I'm curious, what's your what if here? Yeah, I mean, honestly, this game, this season, that run does stick with me.

It was the, that was the last game, the last play that I ended up watching with my dad. My dad passed the following, spring in 2011. I joined the Eagles two months after that in July of 2011. And, you know, when I think of that team, obviously, I remember sitting on the couch. I know exactly where I was sitting when we watched the, you know, Deshawn Jackson punt returned a miracle from, you know, just a couple weeks earlier. And then, you know, if they win that game, yeah, I agree that they are on a path to potentially go on to run there and do some damage in the NFC. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Yeah. So I, I would, I would say you

look at what the Packers did thereafter. So the Eagles would have played the 11 and 5 Chicago Bears in the second round if they win that game. That was a beatable bears. Yes. Right. Had they won that game, they would have played the winner of the top-seated Falcons against the seven and nine Seahawks, right? That was the Marciaun Lynch run. Yep. The Beastquake. The Beast quake there. So that was not a great Seahawks team. And the top-seated Falcons, that was a beatable team. I think the Packers put up like 48 points. on them in the second round that year. So it was a very navigable path to the Super Bowl.

And then you also think, too, had they won that game, some of the things that happened thereafter. So for instance, maybe Sean McDermott's not fired as defensive coordinator, right? If the Eagles advance to the NFC championship game, if they go to the Super Bowl, maybe Sean McDermott's back. And, you know, he's not, I don't know if the term scapegoated, but the Eagles don't feel that need to make that change at defensive coordinator. Certainly, Michael Vickman.

standing is transformed in the organization. He obviously went into the 2011 season as like the franchise quarterback. But if he had brought the team deep into the playoffs, like it's it's a career changing run. Was that not a contract? Contract here for him. Yeah. So he received the contract that offseason. So it would have been, obviously, that would have been a bigger, bigger contract.

Yeah. Perhaps Andy Reid's career lasts longer in, in Philadelphia because, you know, you don't look back and say he hasn't won a playoff game since, right? If they make that run in that 2010 season, so January 2011, the context of Andy Reed's exit is entirely different. He probably gets a longer shelf life here in Philadelphia than 2011, 2012, you know, so his legacy in career in Philly's different. The dream team offseason doesn't occur, right?

Eagles aren't like Super Bowl or bust. that following year. So maybe you don't see some of like those signings during the lockout that they had. There's so many, you know, that was really their last best chance under Andy Reid to win. I'm trying to think of, so of the signings from like the,

you know, from that dream team summer, which one would be late, which one are the less likely to, to execute if they had won the Super Bowl or had even gone to the Super Bowl, or even gone to the Super Bowl, gone deep into the playoffs as opposed to having a, wild card exit, you know, giving out big money to Namdi,

awesome while was obviously big. I'm trying to think of the other players that were added there. So you had Evan Mathis, you know, Ronnie Brown was a one year deal. Jason Babin. Jason Babin was it was a solid contract there. I mean, are there, is there another big deal in there that I'm missing? Vince Young was a one year deal. Like all the other guys were kind of, I mean, it was, it was really nomdi was the big one there. And yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm curious to if, if McDermott's here, what, what their approach is. I think it's more like the coaching staff, right?

It's, it's, uh, they bring in Washburn. They bring in Howard Mudd, right? Um, they, they move Wants to DeVosal over to defensive coordinator. So there are a lot of reverberations there, but, you know, they still trade Kevin Cobb that off season. And so you're, you're getting, you know, DRC back. Maybe you, you're comfortable with Asante and, and DRC. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,

to say, but certainly their approach that offseason is different. Maybe they don't feel compelled to, like, get Danny Watkins at that spot in the first round. You're doing some more long-term thinking in that draft as opposed to, you know, when they took Watkins, it was very clear they were looking for that starting player was like a Super Bowl or bust approach in that 2011 offseason. That 2011 draft obviously was also like chock full of just a second time I've used that phrase already.

So we're going to put a high, we're going to put that on hiatus. But the pick immediately after Danny Watkins was Cam Jordan. So, yeah, Mark Ingram was a pro bowl player. I was selected soon after Mohamed Wilkerson, Cam Hayward later on in the draft. So you had a bunch of other guys that were, you know, Jimmy Smith was a really good corner for a long time that went late in the first round. And so, you know, that's always that was a draft where if you don't take Watkins or if you pick later and Watkins had gone, maybe there's another player that falls to you later on later on in the first round. So that, yeah, so that that's a major what if.

and it has NFL implications because I think of what Andy Reid did in Kansas City thereafter. So let's go to number eight here. Okay. What if the Eagles took the Saints trade for the number two pick in 1999? This is something that we spoke about a bit

at the end of the sliding door show two weeks ago, but just to kind of give the outline here, the New Orleans Saints badly wanted Ricky Williams in the 1999 draft. They were trying hard to go get them. They were offering a bounty of draft picks to move up from where they were drafting.

And so they eventually made a trade with Washington. So they get the number five pick, and they give up a first round pick number 12 overall, third round, fourth round, fifth round, fifth round, sixth round, seventh round, plus their 1999 first round pick, which turned into the, oh, I'm sorry, their 2000 first round pick,

which turned into the number two overall pick, plus a third round pick in 2000 as well. So the price might have been different. It probably would have been even higher. I've spoken to Jeffrey Lurie about this. Like the Saints were pushing hard to make that trade. Instead, Andy Reid wants to stay where they are. At number two, he wants to take Donovan McNabb.

So as you look back at this, what if the Eagles took that Saints trade? Yeah, I mean, so we had talked about, okay, who would the quarterback have been, you know, in that instance? you know, obviously that's a huge, huge factor in trying to make that deal. If you say you're not going to take Donovan McNabb there, who's going to be the quarterback for the 1999 season and moving forward in 2000, I think where we kind of landed when we had that conversation a couple weeks ago ago was that maybe they ended up with Chris Samuels who Washington ended up taking with the third

overall pick that year ended up being a great tackle for a long time. When you look at the other players that went in that area, Corey Simon was the Eagles pick at six overall. But if you add in Chris Samuels, you know, Lovar Arrington, probably wasn't going to, wouldn't have been the Eagles pick, right? But, you know, Courtney Brown went number one overall. That's a fascinating sliding doors. What if moment?

Yeah, when you think about the quarterback, my guess is what the Eagles would have done is they would have taken a quarterback within that tradeback scenario. So they probably would have tried to trade up similar to what Washington did that year as, as well. And the Eagles could have had Dante Cole Pepper. They could have had Cade McHound. I think Cole Pepper is probably the quarterback that they would have gone with there. And then you have this bounty of draft pick.

So you have a different quarterback working with Andy Reid. And Andy Reid is obviously outstanding at developing quarterbacks. Dante Colpepper, we've seen like the high watermark for him for him was really impressive. There was a lot of natural ability there. So maybe in Philly with Andy Reid, he develops into a franchise quarterback here. I think personality had a lot to do with why they were interested in Donovan. They thought he could handle Philly. But the reality is this.

And I'm always one, like get draft. capital, get draft capital. You're a draft analyst. You know, you probably agree. Like, the more lottery tickets you have, the better. If you look at the way this turned out, Donovan McNabb was the, is the best quarterback in franchise history as far as I, from, from my view. You still say that now?

I still say that now. Yeah, still say that now. Do you disagree? I think, I think you could convince me to go the other way, but I would, my gut says, yes. Would you go chilling? That would be the other one to think about, yeah. Yeah, I don't think yet. Although the Super Bowl ring certainly helps and two Super Bowl appearances.

but Donovan McNabb brings them the five NFC championship games in the next decade. So I actually think this worked out fine for the Eagles. But when you think about what they could have done with that roster, it's a fascinating what if. Yeah. Honestly, when we talked about it a couple of weeks ago, you were the one that brought to the mind, the idea of taking the Saints trade.

Initially, we went into it talking, okay, well, is it McNabb versus Ricky Williams? And obviously that's that huge decision within itself. but no, when you say, all right, it's Donovan McNabb versus Dante Colpepper, we'll say Chris Samuels plus more picks. That's a fascinating debate. Yeah, I don't think they ever were going to take Ricky Williams, much to Mayor Ed Rendell's displeasure. And others.

The running back, they actually liked the most that year was Edron James. Had they taken a running back, it would have been Edgerman James, but they were not going to take a running back that high, especially in starting the franchise. If you stick around with us, We're going to have some what-ifs that could have led to a potential Eagle Super Bowl. Stick around. I want to tell everyone about Monarch Money.

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MonarchMoney.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarchmoney.com with code P-H-L-Y. All right, friend, here's an impression of me from yesterday. Okay. That's me walking into my house, sweating like a pig, because it is feeling like a sauna in there. Yeah, I mean, you know how it is. This time of year, this Philly heat, it's no joke. so what do I do? Do I go jump in a lake? Not going to happen. So I just got a bunch of ice.

Like, held it, rubbed it on my face, stuffed it down my shirt, stuffed it down my pants, the only way I could think to cool down. I mean, stop being the stereotypical dad, though. Like, turn on the AC. It's time to fire that thing up. I don't want to be, I want to waste money, be energy efficient.

Well, look, instead of icing yourself out or jumping into a lake, you could just check out Pico's energy-saving rebates. They've got deals on Energy Star, cooling equipment that actually work and cut down on your bills. So no more ice down my pants? No, you could skip the ice, save the ice, and you throw in my drinks when I come over.

The same ice? No, we'll change the ice up. Okay, fine. That's what's up. All right, well, just head over to pico.com slash ways to save. They've got tips for everything. Heating, cooling, lighting, you name it. That same ice would be a fascinating, what if.

Fascinating is a strong part. I will say, I hope that it is like the, dead of winter and we were still running that as. I love seeing it. It brings a smile to my face every single time. Well, here's something that does not bring a smile to Eagles fans' faces. What if James Bradbury was not called for defensive holding in the Super Bowl? So here's the scenario. And this is one that still haunts Jeffrey Lurie.

The Eagles forced the chiefs into a third and eight from the 15-yard line with a minute 54 remaining in the game. Okay? So had no flag been through, it was tied to. 3535. Yep. Had no flag been thrown. The chiefs would have kicked the field goal.

They would have taken, presumably they would have made the field goal, taken a 38, 35 lead. And Janeline Hertz would have had about a minute 40, minute 40 plus to drive downfield and try to win the game. He was playing the game of his life that day. What if James Bradbury was not called for defensive holding? Obviously, we don't know, right? But I have a lot of confidence based off the way

that Jalen Hertz was playing in that game. that he would have led them down to at least tie, if not win. I just, he, that was, that was the best game I've ever seen Jalen Hertz play. I mean, he, the, some of the big time throws that he made in that game against the Chiefs. I mean, it's, again, I've said it numerous times over the last few weeks, but like to me, that that is the standard that we hold Jalen, that we should hold Jalen Hertz too. Is like, that, that's what you should expect is, uh, that that type of passer, that type of point guard offending, you know, at the position, uh, the way he played.

that game was outstanding. And yeah, I think that he would have led them down the field to at least tie if not win that football game. I'm going to shadow my inner bow wolf here. Okay. All right. Put your turkeys on these three scenarios. All right.

Okay. Or these four scenarios. Okay. One, Gowen Hertz leads them downfield. They score a touchdown. They win the game. Okay. Two, Gowen Hertz leads them down field, kicks a field goal.

And it goes into overtime. Okay. Three, Gno one hurts does not lead them down. downfield, the Eagles lose the game in regulation like that. Four, Joan Hertz leaves him downfield to a touchdown or a field goal, but he does it too quickly. And Patrick Mahomes comes downfield and wins the game. So those are the four scenarios. Split up the turkeys on those. Yep. 40, they go down to win it. Wow. I feel like really, just like, just the way he was playing, I remember leaving the stadium that night thinking, like, if he had had that shot, I think they

would have won the game. 30, that he leads them down to tie, and then they go to overtime. 20, he does it too fast, and then the defense gives up a touchdown, or gives up a field goal, whatever, to lose the game. And then 10 was the,

what was the third option? It was that he doesn't do it. He doesn't, oh, that he, yeah, it comes up short. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be 40, 30, 20, 10. And let's suppose that they win the Super Bowl that year. You could be looking at a potential dynasty right now, right?

because that team, like, this is different than 2017. Most of that team was young ascending players, especially on the offensive side of the ball. They were coming back. And the, you got to think that by virtue of them coming back that year, you know, they're in Super Bowl contention again. But they won this past year. So you could be looking at two Super Bowls in three years.

Jay one Hertz and Nick Siriani are viewed a lot. differently, you know, before they won this past Super Bowl. The other thing, too, is Jason Kelsey probably retires on top, I imagine, right? He just won the Super Bowl against his brother. It's kind of like Brandon Graham. So Jason Kelsey does not have that final year in Philly, perhaps. Yeah. So the Cam Juergens era starts a year earlier because he was the backup center that year. So you still have the replacement plan in place. I was trying to think, okay, that that following off season, what are some of the other thing is is that you still had that pick uh you know where you still had the jalen carter pick until that pick wasn't changing uh no one smith that selection moves from number 30 to number

31 i actually think the chiefs would have taken no i think so too yeah right so you know so you probably don't get Nolan smith in that scenario um but i think the eagles probably would make that trade yes um but i think at the end of the day uh yeah the the the offense is mostly intact outside of the kelsey uh aspect moving into 2023 and then uh shout out to with Jamie Lynch, outstanding head of content here. But when he was, he was putting these together

and one of his, his bullet points was that A.J. Brown does not call a Judeo Smith-Schuster TikTok boy. Right. So that we never would have had that story. Do you think that how many people watching do you think would take that trade? Yeah.

You know, I mean, shout out to Jamie. I saw that on the prompt and I'm like, I'm not, I'm not going to mess with that one. But, So we never would have had TikTok boy for Juju Smith,

for Juju Smith Schuster. But I'll say this, James Bradbury was, you know, an all-pro caliber player that your second team, up pro. And I think his legacy in Philly

is probably tied to that penalty. You think so. I think so. Whereas, you know, I look back and I say this was a really productive player for the Eagles.

No question. He had a great season, had some outstanding plays, you know, from start to finish, a big reason why that defense was one of the best in the NFL this year. I know you and,

you and, I think was you and Jamie. talked about this, was it last week, or it may have been earlier this week. My days are all messed up. But you mentioned, too, the legacy of Jonathan Gannon. Yes. I mean, look, that defense obviously was not good that day. The defense of 2017 was not very good either.

Could not stop the Patriots and Tom Brady, but, you know, they won the game. So it was good enough to be able to get that win. If the Eagles do find a way to win that game, people probably look at Jonathan Gannon a little bit differently as well. That's true. That's true. He leaves as a Super Bowl winning defensive coordinator. Yeah.

It also creates far fewer debates between Bo and me about the Gannon legacy. So I'm glad that I'm glad that they lost to happen. You're glad that happened. Let's go to number six here, which is what if the Eagles acquired Alan Robinson or Calvin Ridley during that 20, 22 off season and did not trade for A.J. Brown. So just to set the context, the Eagles needed an upgrade wide receiver. That was apparent after 2021. They were interested in acquiring Calvin Ridley pretty early on. The Falcons backed off because the suspension was coming for gambling.

They wanted to sign Alan Robinson as a free agent. Alan Robinson chose the offer with the Rams over the Eagles, but there was obviously interest there. So if the Eagles land either one of them, then they're not compelled the trade for AJ Brown in the first round that year. You don't get the player who I think is going to be the best receiver in Eagles history. I could argue he already is the best receiver. in Eagles history.

And he obviously transformed the offense. My guess is with that draft pick. I'll defer to you, but my guess is Trent McDuffie is in line for that pick. So the Eagles have that second first round pick that year, but they don't have AJ Brown. And who knows how the offense would look with Alan Robinson or Calvin Ridley at wide receiver.

Yeah, I think that when you're looking at my guess is, is that it probably is probably is Trent McDuffie, you know, in that spot. But man, it's when you talk about like sliding doors moments and butterfly effects and things of that nature, I mean, Alan Robinson likely would have been an eagle. You know, and I think that had the Rams not come in late with a much bigger offer from a money standpoint, he ends up. I would say Alan Robinson ends up here in Philadelphia. And to your point, the Eagles don't make that trade for AJ. You know, and even like the trade for AJ Brown, like obviously that was somewhat hashed out beforehand before draft night.

but still something that happened very late, you know, in that like prime, you know, player acquisition window. It was weeks after the start of free agency. So to be able to get a player of that caliber on draft night with no inkling that it was going to happen. I mean, did you, did you have any anticipation? No, no. I did not.

That was not on my radar as we were going into draft night that night. That A.J. Brown could get moved and that the Eagles would be acquiring him. And so, you know, you're talking about Trailing Burks and, oh, you know, Johan Dotson is over there at Penn State, he's coming out in this draft. You know, is he a guy that could help you? Christian Watson, could he help you if you go into the second round? But to come out with a player like AJ Brown is a huge boom, obviously, for the Eagles. Yeah, so if you kind of keep workshopping it, that that 20-22 offense is not nearly as electric, right?

So maybe they don't make this football that year. That said, I think Devonte Smith really emerges as like the unquestioned number one receiver. So maybe the context of his next few years are a bit different. but I have a hard time seeing the offense being what it is. If the Eagles take Trent McDuffie, then they don't sign James Bradbury, right? They have their starting corner on the outside, that first round starting corner.

So there's a lot of different variables at play here. This is one of those things where the Eagles, you know, sometimes it's the decisions you don't make that are the best ones, right? Or the decisions that fall through. This is a decision that fell through in terms of they couldn't get Calvin Ridley. Alan Robinson didn't sign here. and Howie Roseman recovered and made a franchise altering trade. Yeah.

And that's what, you know, one of the things we've talked about the past with Howie Roseman and the Eagles organization is that, you know, they are always giving themselves off ramps and on ramps. And, you know, that optionality is such a ever present theme with the way that they conduct business, not just with the draft, but from the team building processing as a whole. And so when you're looking at, all right, well, we can go option A. There's option B. There's option C.

But don't forget about D, E and F as well. You know, I think when you're looking at, if they had acquired Calvin Ridley and obviously like you said the reason that that did not happen was because the Falcons know like he's about to get suspended. We're not going to trade him right now. We can't trade him right now.

Just, you know, from a goodwill standpoint. You know, Calvin Ridley's a really good player. Honestly, I would have liked to see the kumbaya moment between he and Bo Wolf. That would have been a lot of fun. That would have been worth the price of admission. But I think when you're looking at a duo

of Calvin Ridley and Devante Smith, going into 2022, if that had gone through, if Ridley hadn't got suspended, That's not a bad duo either. And I think that that, maybe that is enough to get them to the Super Bowl. But obviously the, if it was Allen Robinson, that was that was not one that was going to get off the ground. And something that just came to mind as you were talking there is the price for Ridley is presumably a second round pick. Right.

That second one pick that year was Cam Juergens. So maybe so they don't draft Cam Jurgens in the second round. And the Jason Kelsey's succession plan looks different too. That's a good point. Well, that's a really good point. I think when you're looking at all of these things, it's like you're going to get into the sliding doors of all of it. Yep.

So now let's go to number five on this list here. And this is what if the Eagles traded Carson Wentz and kept Nick Folles. So we all remember this. And they were, by the way, there were two times when this could have happened. After the 2017 season by Nick Foles, wins Super Bowl for the Eagles. Super Bowl MVP has, you know, this iconic performance. and the Eagles still sick with Carson Wenz,

who at that point was playing it at MVP level towards ACL. The second time this could have happened was following the 2018 season. When Carson came back, had the back injury, Nick Foles comes off the bench in December, leads the Eagles to the playoffs, leads them to that playoff win against the Bears. Who knows what would have happened in that Saints game?

That's a what if that could potentially have been on here. if, you know, I personally think that the Saints still win that game if Alshan doesn't drop that pass. But nonetheless, the Eagles could have committed to Nick Foles then. So what if the Eagles traded Carson Wants at either of those points and kept Nick Foles? So obviously the earlier that you make that trade, the bigger the packages that you're getting back in return, right? And we don't know exactly who would have been involved and what that pick. You're going to get a lot of picks for Carson Wants. If you would, if you would, if you, you say in March of 2018 that you're going to trade.

Even though he's coming off the ACL, I think teams would have, you know, this is a guy that was, he would have won the MVP that year if he had stayed healthy. He would have been the MVP of the entire league. And so what you would have gotten back for him,

now looking back years later, it's like, I mean, he got, the Eagles got a first round pick years after that, after the play had gone. So it would have been, I mean,

you're talking two, three first round picks. Yep. Right. That's what the price would have been for a player of Carson Wentz's caliber at that point. So, I think when you're looking at that, yeah, if you had a crystal ball and you knew how things were going to pan out, you probably make that trade.

I'm interested to get your take on this. Obviously, you know, you and I were not as close at this point. Unfortunately for me. Yeah, well, you know, for both of us. I remember being in the building and, you know, talking, I'm talking with like people in our own the Eagles entertainment. And as Carson gets hurt that second time in 2018 and Nick Foles comes in, I'm saying like, look, it's, you want the team to win. but I said if he has success, if Nick Foles has success,

like this is bad news, big picture wise. You know, this is, you know, and you can talk about like the fragility of a, of a player's ego,

but to me like the interpersonal stuff, uh, is real in all sports, not just in football. Um, after having to sit out and watch the Super Bowl the year before for Carson, then watch this happen again. And then the team get behind Nick Foles again,

the same quarterback again. That's, that's a tough thing to get over. Uh, and it's something that, you know, the coaching staff, had to be cognizant of as they went into the 2019 offseason.

That's, to me, that was a really, really tough, you know, a few months to try and navigate. Yeah. And because I think you felt it more in the locker room in 2018.

Yeah. And like, like 2017, it was, you know, Nick coming out of nowhere, right? 2018,

though, after that Cowboys loss in, in Dallas, they put Carson on the shelf. The, expectations externally were not that this is a team that was going to rebound and like make a run in the in the playoffs and then for you know they go to los angeles and foals you know leads this upset over the rams and you just think about all that happened thereafter right and then you think about chris long in the locker putting up the shrine yeah for nick foals like he had that galvanizing effect in the locker room it was it was very real uh so when you do this this what if there's so many different scenarios here where it kind of works out for the Eagles in that if they trade Carson Wenz

after the 2017 season like you said which seemed unrealistic he was the MVP if you just said look Nick Foles won the Super Bowl he's our guy if you operated like that you're right they get a huge draft haul for huge huge I mean he like you said MVP player year two yep okay so that was a team that was it

that was a Super Bowl team that was aging and they were already missing some draft picks as it was from the initial Carson Wrench trade So I can't tell you how they would have drafted in 18, 19, 20, but they would have had far more draft inventory. I mean, they only drafted five players in 2018. It was a great draft. Great draft.

But they only drafted five players that year, right? And so you can kind of rebuild that team earlier on. If you trade them after 2018, you're still getting a good draft haul. You're not getting the same one, but you're still getting a good draft haul. But the other thing to think about, too, is that you don't give Carson when's that contract extension. So now you have, obviously, you give Nick Foles a deal, but Nick Foles' deal is not Carson Wences's deal.

So you have more cap flexibility at that point. Now, you also have to workshop this too from the other perspective. If Nick Folls steps in and he's the starter, and to use our Frenchiel Capadia's term, he was this high variance quarterback, right? And so I don't know if they have this consistent production with Nick Foles. You're seeing some highs, some lows. So I don't think it's the type of thing where they go on.

They win multiple Super Bowls with Nick Foles. You're probably in a position where around 2020, you're still addressing quarterback. They could still be, you know, if you just think about that timeline, Jelen Hertz could still be the guy that go after. But the way you build the team in 18, 19, 20 is a lot different if you have all those draft picks for Carson Wentz.

And also, too, the idea, and this goes into like the dynamic with Wentz and with her or with, with Foles, was that you move on from a guy like Malcolm Jenkins and what was the messaging coming out, was that, you know, we want, this is going to be Carson's locker room, right? And I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that there was, you know, the,

instability there with him being injured and Nick Foll's coming in again, you want to make sure that, hey, you know what, this is going to be his room. This is going to be his locker room, you know, so maybe those decisions go a little bit differently. If you had trade Wentz, you know, before that, when you probably keep Malcolm, you keep some of those other players. Like I said, you're not giving that money to Carson. So now you've got that ability to keep some of those other vets in the room. Yeah. So let's go to another potential trade scenario here because this is one too that, you know, you saw up up close and there's so many reverberations for this one. Number four, what if Chip Kelly traded for Marcus Mariotta?

Oh, 2015. What if they traded for Marcus Mariotta? So just to outline it here, the Eagles trade Nick Foles that offseason. Right. They get Sam, they give up Foles in a second round pick. They get Sam Bradford back. but you don't know if San Bradford's going to be the quarterback or not. And there's this thought that San Bradford could be a chip in a trade package, no pun intended, a chip in a trade package for Marcus Marriota. Marcus Marriota was outstanding in Chip Kelly's offense at Oregon. He was like the perfect quarterback for Chip Kelly. There were multiple reports that the Eagles were trying to get Marcus Marietta that year

in a trade that would give up a lot of draft picks and players, players including Fletcher Cox. So that's something to consider here too. So, of course, the Titans did not want to trade the number two pick. It was a scenario as Chip Kellogg described that year, like when you go driving on a block that you can't afford the houses on, right? And so he said they just couldn't afford to move up and get Marcus Mariotta. But what if the Eagles did trade for Marcus Mario, for Marcus Mario, what happens at that point? It's a good question.

And I think that ultimately, when you look at the way that things panned out for Chip Kelly, you know, end that Eagles offense in 2014 and in 2015. If he had a quarterback that was running his system, maybe there's a little bit more, you know, there's a little bit more efficiency, a little bit more effectiveness. Now all of a sudden, you know, the inconsistencies that we saw don't pop up.

Maybe then don't feel as compelled to say, all right, we're going to give a lot of money to DeMarco Murray and give a lot of money to Ryan Matthews that following offseason. You know, is that enough to where they don't make a change with Howie Roseman that following offseason, right? So there's a lot of things that could go. That's the thing too, is that if they go and they say, right, we're going to go and we're going to get his guy.

But there's still that friction upstairs. Maybe that only like said it more into Jeffrey Lurge's mind. Like, okay, yeah, this is Chip Kelly's guy. We're going to give him the keys to everything. How do you think that would have played out that way? Yeah, it's a great question because I think that certainly Chip Kelly has a longer leash at that point. Yeah.

You know, I think that chip, I think, I think Lori commits the chip. Like, it's the combination there. And despite whatever interpersonal dynamics there might have been, like, the coach and quarterback are connected at the hip. You know, this is your year to be the GM, so to speak. And we're letting you go get your quarterback. You got your quarterback. So you have that shelf life with him.

So I think that Chip and Mariotta, you know, I can't tell you chip with coach for the next five years. Right. But I don't think Jeffrey pulls the plug after 15 games. But I guess then here's the question after that then is let's say, let's say the upstairs dynamic played out exactly the same and things, the things with Chip just wore too thin. And it was like, and Jeffrey Lerner said, yep, we are still going to,

we're still going to make this move. We're going to move on from Chip Kelly after the 2015 season or, you know, before the 2015 season has even ended. So Harry Roseman comes back in. You have Marcus Marioo there. Let's assume that. his career arc had progressed, certainly to what it was in Tennessee,

where there were questions, like, oh, it could go either way. He could still be a viable starting quarterback or maybe not. Do you still think that they are as aggressive to go up and get Jared Gough

slash Carson Wentz? Or do you think that they say what they did when they moved on from Doug Peterson into Nick Siriani and they say, all right, you know, Doug, you're going to come in.

Let's see if you can make this work with Marcus Mariotta. Yes, so the interpersonal stuff with, with Howie and Ship might factor into this. Like how he might, I want to be like, you know, I'm winning with Chip's Guy. Yeah, right.

Because he did go on and trade like Chip's guys for the most part. But realistically, I think that if you have, what, a 22, 23-year-old Marcus Mariotta, you got to build around a 2020. You know, he was, I mean, you're the draft guy here, but he was such an awesome prospect coming out of Oregon, clean off the field, athletic, right? I mean, he's played in different systems. and so I still think they built around Marioo at that point. Yeah.

I'm just thinking, I just actually, my head immediately went back to like, yeah, and they don't have Fletcher Cox. Exactly. So you don't have a guy who was the best player on your Super Bowl team two years later. So you want to be able to try and recuperate some of that, or get back some of that defensive talent that you lost in the process. Yeah, because they were offering multiple players for them. So there was, this is, I'm pulling up a story here.

This is according to Peter Schrager. So as I'm pulling this up, that he said this on the Colin Cowherd Show. Last year, so this is from 2016. Last year the Eagles offered a Tennessee, they offered the Titans, a 2015 first round pick, a 2015 second round pick, and a 2016 first round pick.

They said, take any quarterback, that's Bradford, that's Sanchez, that's whoever, and take anyone on our defense, we want the number two pick. was the offer. And so I had heard at the time, Fletcher Cox, Michael Kendricks were names in that potential deal. I think Vinnie Curry spoke about one time that he might have been someone who could have been on the move then. So you're getting on 2015 first. So that would have been Nelson. So they wouldn't have Nelson Agler because they take Mario to that year.

Yeah. And their second round pick that year was Eric Rowe. And then they're 2016 first, which obviously they move up. they get Carson Wends. So you're depleting your draft inventory. You're knocking out all your young players on defense, right? And you don't have that San Bradford trade chip that you then turned into the number 14 overall pick to take Derek Barnett. It would have been, it would have gone down as like one of the worst trades in NFL history.

Unless Mario is good. Unless Mario is good. Yeah. And I actually think, I'm sorry. If Bose here, he would pound the table against me here. He would say that I have a soft spot for Chip. I think Marioita and Chip would have worked better. I think that...

How much better, though? Well, it's a good question because they didn't have, they didn't have talent at wide receiver as it was, and you don't have Agilor. So I don't know what they would have done at wide receiver. But Bradford was just not a fit for what Chip was trying to do. And, you know, I've spoken to people in, you know, who were very familiar with what was going on there

and said, after that preseason game, when Terrell Suggs hit Bradford in the knee, uh, when they were, um, you know, when they wanted Bradford. Yeah,

at the, at the, at the mesh point there. And the refs didn't flow the, and the refs didn't throw the flag. The Eagles position then where I guess Bradford's position then was, I'm not doing this. Like,

you know, like, uh, if I'm exposed myself to hits, like we're just, I'm, I'm not going to draw out the fake there. That's right.

Because that's the thing is that like, I feel like, when I think of like stylistically, obviously there were different athletes, but they were very similar, uh, when you're looking at Bradford and Marriota in terms of like, hey, they're going to be very efficient,

ball's going to come out fast, it's going to be accurate, good decision making, like get the, and play point guard underneath, not necessarily be aggressive down the field. It was the added element, though, of the mobility that you mentioned. Like, you know, and that's what would have just given it that extra dimension in those last two years. Yeah. We spoke about Howie Roseman getting back in the power.

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Again, create that account, redeem code P-H-L-Y for $20 off. Download the GameTime app today. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. So the what if that we spoke about on the sliding door show two weeks ago. And this is one that haunts Eagles fans, but the sliding door scenario might have been beneficial for Eagles fans. And that is what if the Eagles selected Justin Jefferson over J.N. Rager. So again, we spent a lot of time on this then.

But let's workshop this now. We all remember, Justin Jefferson. was sitting on the board at number 21 overall. The Eagles needed a wide receiver. They were going to take a wide receiver. That was clear. This was a loaded wide receiver at draft class. They could not quite trade up for CD Lamb that year.

But they knew there could be a good receiver on the board at 21. Justin Jefferson was the popular pick at the time for them to take. Yep. But there was this thought that maybe he's primarily in the slot. But if you saw the best available players, it would have been Justin Jefferson. Rather, the Eagles go Jalen Raker. We all know how that turned out.

What if the Eagles went with Justin Jefferson over Jalen Rager? So I thought a lot about this. We talked about it a couple weeks ago. But to me, I still think they, now, if they have Justin Jefferson on the team in 2020, how much better is the record? How does that affect the draft slot the next year? You can get into all that.

But the next year they select Devante Smith. And a lot of people might say, oh, well, if you have Justin Jefferson, you probably don't take Devon. as I've gone through that draft and like gone back through my notes, you know, going in terms of where I thought teams would go. I actually think they still would have taken Devante Smith that next spring. I think they would have paired Devante with Justin Jefferson. Obviously, that takes you out of trading for A.J. Brown the following year in 2022. I just go back though to to that year.

As you mentioned, that group was and if I hadn't said it three times already, I would have said that group was chock full of wide receivers. But that was a wide receiver heavy first round. You mentioned some of the big names there. I can tell you, like, there were, there were members of the coaching staff that liked Jalen Rager more than Justin Jefferson,

and there were members of the coaching staff that liked Jefferson more than Rager. There were people on the personnel side that liked Rager more than Jefferson, and there were people that liked Jefferson more than Rager. Like it was, it was not one of those like, oh, universal, everybody feels this way.

You know, we've heard about that from time to time, you know, with the Eagles where it was like, yeah, everybody was on board with how they had this player stacked. It was split. Obviously, it was the wrong choice. and it would have had big impacts, but you don't have A.J. Brown in that case. And if you don't have A.J. Brown, who knows?

Who knows if this team wins a Super Bowl in 2024? Who knows if they go to a Super Bowl in 2022? Yeah, you're absolutely right, because they did rebuild that wide receiving core in an outstanding way. You know, the ability to rebound from this was a key part of what Howie Roseman did. But so let's start off by saying they take Justin Jefferson.

They have this premier young wide receiver. I think Justin Jefferson was going to be good wherever he went. I think so. Right? So they have this premier young wide receiver. So that 2020 season when things fall apart, maybe it's different for Carson Wentz with Justin Jefferson as opposed to Joe and Rager out there.

Maybe it's different for Doug Peterson. No question. In that situation. And so you might not have that quarterback and coaching change, okay? because, you know, that team really needed offensive help. And if Wenz keeps his job, there's reverberations there. If Peterson keeps his job, there's obviously a big sliding door scenario in that case. But if we suppose that Wenz is still benched and that Peterson is still fired,

yeah, then you get into what the Eagles do in the following draft. I agree. I still think they could have taken, Devante, because you would have needed two wide receivers. I was just like looking at who was available. and looking around at who went. I'm like, I don't know that there's anybody else where I would have felt strongly

that they would have taken that part of it. Yeah, I mean, I think if they knew Micah Parsons was going to be Michael Parsons. Yeah. Then they would have done that. This probably doesn't go where Michael Parsons goes.

Sure. Everybody felt that. Maybe they're a tinge more aggressive trying to get J.C. Horn or Patrick Tann. Right. Right. Like maybe they don't move back in the draft as much as they do that year.

Yep. Or maybe they still. I feel like they still, just because you were getting that future. future one. Exactly. It was such a valuable, it was such a valuable deal. One thing that Jamie brought up that I thought was interesting too is maybe how he doesn't kind of change his draft approach. Yes, I think that is a big one. I think that is a big one for sure. So, so what would that have have looked like? If he hits on the Justin Jefferson pick, then how, you know, is there,

is there any work, you know, how would they approach the draft differently the following year, if at all? You know, I don't know that, and I guess it's become a narrative, right? say we've got into like the, oh, it's, it's the, the, the Philly Dogs and it's, it's SEC and SEC. I do think that that can get overplayed a little bit, but I do think that there's something to be said for the fact that, you know, don't overthink it, right? Or as you know, when you had the Reger versus Jefferson, it was like, all right, one guy produced at a bigger school, had a bigger pedigree, was higher floor where you were wishcasting a little bit with Rager. I was guilty of it as well. Yeah, there's probably something to be said for that.

I'd be interested to hear what Howie would say with truth here. I'm about that one too. If that really did impact, like, future decisions just looking back at that one call. You're right about that. Yeah. And look, maybe Howie takes a lesson from that, that, you know, I draft a player from the national champions and it's going to be okay, right? Maybe he didn't need the miss on Jefferson to learn that.

Maybe it would have been more fortified because that, that LSU offense was outstanding that year, right? And so, you know, if he followed it up and the next year, he takes two Alabama guys. he's like, because look what we did with Jefferson. Yep. Right. So maybe the draft approach doesn't change or maybe it was already changing in that direction.

But I think what's more interesting here is wondering would they have been better off? Would they have been better off with Jefferson or the rebound effect, which was Devonte and A.J. Brown. I mean, the difference is is you're getting Jefferson on a rookie contract versus giving up a first round pick and paying a huge contract to A.J.

who is an older player, obviously. I think you'd probably want Jefferson. But again, you get into the, does Justin Jefferson, can you guarantee that he makes all the plays that A.J. Brown has made in the last years. You probably, in the last three years, you probably can.

You probably can say that, you know, it comes out in the wash that, you know, he makes all, you know, all those similar kind of plays. But, you know, I think that it's the butterfly effect aspect of it where it's, you know, does that one decision, do the Eagles still win a Super Bowl last year? I think that's valid.

Let me ask you this. You talk about from the Doug Peterson standpoint. If they select Jefferson, they probably still take Jalen Hertz in the second round that year. Yes, I agree with that. Is that enough? Is the Jefferson selection over Rager enough to save Carson Wentz from wanting to leave Philadelphia if Jalen Hertz is still there?

Or was that the Jalen Hertz saying and him getting bench? Was that just like a bridge too far? It's a great question, Fran, because, yeah, I do think the Hertz pick played, played with Jalen's head, right? I'm sorry, played with Carson's head. Play with Jaylins as well. Yeah, played with Carson's head.

So that shadow still would have been looming. But I got to think Carson would have been more productive that year with a better receiving court. Right, yep. And so if you have Justin Jefferson and Carson's playing well, maybe, because I think it was a confluence of the Hertz pick, Carson not playing well, Carson not having faith in the organization.

Like there was all those factors. there. Maybe if Hertz is still there, but Carson stays healthy and he's, you know, he has Justin Jefferson and they're winning games early on. That season could look different. So I, yeah, I still think Hertz is the, is the pick. And I still think that Hertz presence affects Carson, but I got to think Justin Jefferson makes the offense better. Yeah. I think too, you know, if Carson doesn't get benched in 2020. Maybe when Nick's, okay,

you still move on from Doug Peterson. Let's just call, you know, you're taking this, this timeline here. So Wence doesn't get benched, but you still move on from Peterson.

So Siriani still comes in the following year. If Carson hadn't gotten benched the previous year, is it still like a competition between Ian Hertz and Siriani's mind? Or is like, hey, you know, like Carson is our starter because I think that also probably had a little bit of an impact as well on Carson's wanting to leave was that,

they don't even want to guarantee that I'm going to be the starter. or they want me to compete with the guy that they just drafted in the second round a year ago. That's a good point. We've spoken a lot about Howie Roseman on this show so far. But what if we weren't talking about Howie Roseman right now?

Because number two on this list is what if Howie Roseman did not return after the 2015 season. So let's just give the context here for what happened. Howie Roseman at the after the 2014 season, there's the front office

power struggle, if you will, Chip Kelly gets full control, Howie gets pushed this side of the building. And Jeffrey Lurie keeps Howie around, almost as insurance, right? He thinks highly of Howie, but he's doubling down on Chip at this point. But Howie doesn't know then

that he's going to become the GM. You know, we talked about the Marcus Mariotta situation. If Chip Kelly stays the coach for one more year, I can't imagine how he just sticks around for another year in that role. I mean, I'm sure he's probably looking for something else, either with a different team or, you know, whether it's media, something like that.

But my guess is he probably goes to a different team. Howie Roseman is probably going to be a hallfamer one day. You know, he's built two Super Bowl champions. He's gone to the Super Bowl three times. He's done this now with two different quarterbacks, two different coaches. he has a Hall of Fame

track record. He did not have a Hall of Fame track record back in 2015 and going into that 2016 season. So what would have happened for the Eagles and what would have happened for Hallie Roseman

had he not returned after that 2015 season? It's fascinating. I mean, obviously we don't know, but I mean, I find it hard to believe that you would have found

a different general manager that would have been able to bring you to three Super Bowls in eight years with two completely different quarterback coaching staffs. It's just, it doesn't happen. That doesn't happen in the NFL. You know, to me, that's why Harvey Roseman is on a Hall of Fame track.

And it's why he's one of the best general managers in sports, if not the best general manager in sports. So I'm looking through the general manager, the current GMs that are in seat, that are in seats right now. I can look at who the, who was even hired in that span. But there are two names that stand out. that got hired within, we'll say two years of that,

of that decision to move on from Chip Kelly. So, you know, the 2016 year, who do you think Jeffrey Lurie would have gone to try and bring into that role? If Howie had moved on, you moved on from Chip Kelly and how he said, you know, I'm just not going back there. Brett Veach got hired, got promoted in 2017. Okay.

Is that someone you go back to? Or from that same staff, Chris Ballard got hired from Kansas City by Indianapolis. because I do think that I think it lends the reason you go to Andy and say like hey who's a guy you like you know what do you think about Chris Ballard here

what do you think about Brett is is Vich ready for it my guess is they say they want to hold on to Veach but maybe Chris Ballard ends up here in Philadelphia great question I haven't thought about that one my guess is he goes to that that Andy Reid coaching well and I'm sorry that Andy Reid executive well

and that you're looking at Chris Bauer Doug Peterson combination. Maybe you're bringing John Dorsey. I thought about that one too. You know, because you want someone with some experience there. Although,

you know, knowing Jeffrey, he's, he's probably thinking for someone, he's looking for someone forward thinking. That said, he's always kind of had someone who he's, close to,

right, in that role, right? I mean, it went from, you know, Joe Banner, then there was,

there was Tom Hecker there, but Tom Hecker was an intern. promotion to GM and you you know then it goes to Howie. So I wonder if he goes with a big name person there. He makes a splash at GM. Like, you know, when he moved on from Andy Reed, he made a splash at head coach with Chip Kelly. Maybe he makes a splash at GM.

But or he could go with that up and comer. But yeah, I mean, I still think he goes to that Kansas City tree because that's what he did with the head coaching search. It's familiar. So I can certainly see that pathway there. I don't think it's like Tom Donahoe. You know, I don't think it's just someone in the building

who he puts there. My guess is Chris Bowerd or John Dorsey. Yeah, so I'm like looking at who else was hired that offseason. And, you know, there was, Bob Quinn got hired from New England to go to Detroit that year. That's when John Robinson got hired by the Tennessee tight. You know, so that's another path.

People were rating. Basically, it was the chiefs and the Patriots got rated for, for executives, that offseason. My gut says it would have ended up being probably Chris Ballard. I think Ballard would have ended up being the GM. And how do you think that would have done? He would have been less gun. I mean, he was certainly more gun shy about addressing the quarterback situation. Maybe he doesn't, he doesn't try and be as aggressive to go off to get Carson Wentz in 2016.

I'm trying to think of how, I mean, I think that Chris, Chris Ballard does a great job. He's got great relationships with like local media, national media. So I think that he would have been able to weather the storm. Everyone like I talk with too that like has, you know, has worked in or is you can hold that thought one second. Oh, we got to do. You're going to finish that in overtime. I think he would have done a solid job, Chris Ballard. I obviously, I just don't think he would have been able to replicate certainly what Howie has done.

Yeah. obviously the quarterback question would have been the big one there too, right? Because if we're operating under the assumption that it's not Marioada, so in this scenario, it's not Marioada, he inherits San Bradford going into a contract year, or I'm sorry, San Bradford's a free agent, so you have to figure out the San Bradford situation. The Eagles were drafting what, 11, I believe it was. They went from 11 to 8 in the Dolphins trade and then 8 to 2. maybe the next GM, whether it's Chris Bowerd, is, I don't want to say the word vindictive.

It maybe doesn't have the same view of chip players that Howie does. So he's not moving off of Maxwell or he's not moving off of Alonzo or he's not moving off of Eric Roe that year. He's not moving off to Marco Murray. So maybe there's a little more of like a win now approach. The other thing too, and this is also really interesting. This is something Howie did is exceedingly well. is when Howie came back in, we all remember what he did for, you know, to get Carson Wentz.

But actually, that was not his first order of business. His first order of business was to tie up some of these ascending players who he had drafted. So Lane Johnson, Zach, Erich, Fletcher Cox, Vinnie Curry, all received new deals that year. Yeah, that's a good point. Okay. Perhaps the new GM is not as tied down to Vinnie Curry. Right. It's like, all right, we're going to let Vinny walk here.

Or not as tied, you know, I mean, Fletcher Cox was a blue check. player no matter what. But, you know, maybe that GM doesn't have the same early signing approach with Lane Johnson that he had. And Lane Johnson's contract is higher. Or there's not as much patience when Lane has the suspension, you know, in 2016. So there's, I'm fascinated, absolutely fascinated to see what this would have been. But yeah, I do think a Chris Bauer situation, I do think Chris Bauer or someone from the Chiefs would have been the way to go. we'll get to our number one in a bit, but I just want to ask you on this too,

what happens to Howie's career? Is Howie get another shot as GM? I think so. I think he probably would have gotten one. It was a couple years later, Andrew Berry had gotten hired in Cleveland. Obviously, he came from Philadelphia, but if you wanted to go down that path

of hiring someone with that, you know, with that kind of expertise and that kind of approach, that maybe that's where he ends up is in Cleveland, but I think honestly, because that wasn't until 2020, I believe. So that's five years after. My guess is that how he would have gotten hired before that point. Yeah, I think he probably gets another shot.

Does he go to be like an assistant GM somewhere else or director of personnel somewhere else? Or do you think he's a media for a year? Do you think he's, there was no PHLY Eagles show them? But do you think he's sitting on the ESPN or the Fox or the CBS set? Good question. Um, my gut says that he would have taken an assistant GM kind of job like that kind. I think he would have wanted to stay in the game that way as opposed to just because of the biases that some still have towards people with non-traditional backgrounds. You know, not like non like quote unquote like football guy background.

Um, I think that he would have been more cautious of that to go into TV. I could be wrong. Because I think that he'd be awesome until you. I don't know how you feel like. I think he'd be, I think he'd be entertaining on TV. But I think that he probably would have said, and I'm better served, if I want to become a GM again,

to stay in the game, to stay with a team. Something to think about Mike Tannenbaum, who was close with Howie, he was the Dolphins executive vice president of football operations at the time. So maybe Howie finds a landing spot in Miami and works his way up in the dolphin system.

Chris Greer got hired the next year. The next year. 2016. Exactly. So something to think about there. Yep. And that brings us to our number one, something we had been waiting for to unveil this entire show over an hour.

And we've discussed it in other ways here, but this is the big one here. And to me, this is the ultimate what if for Eagles fans. What if Carson Wentz never tour his ACL? This is the number one what if. So we all know the context here. Carson Wenz, like we said, was having an MVP caliber season. Week 14 against the Rams.

The Eagles are on the verge of clinching the NFC East. He runs for a touchdown, or, you know, he gets injured on the play. Yep. And stays in the game, throws a touchdown. Yep. And, you know, the Eagles end up winning the game. But Carson comes off the field, torn ACL, out for the season. Eagles win the Super Bowl with Nick Foles.

What if Carson Wentz never tore his ACL? He wins MVP that year. Talked about that already. I tend to think they still win the Super Bowl, but again, it's very, it's tough to say because everything that Nick Foles did, you know, ended up with them winning a very tight Super Bowl when, you know, winning Super Bowl 52.

So is the Philly Special call in that game? No, because, you know, I don't know that Carson's making that call. Sure. Now you get into like, all right, well, does Carson throw a touchdown before you get to the fourth and go. You know what I mean? Like it's one of those things.

But my gut says that he does not call Philly Special. I don't think that Carson was that kind of guy personally. Do you think he would have? Do I think he would have called Philis? No, I don't think he would call. Nick called it. We're lost in the clip at this point. Nick made the call.

Yeah. I don't think Carson would have made that call. Yeah, I don't think so either. Yeah. But Nick played the game of his life to win that. Do you think that would have happened? with with with Carson again it's it's tough to say because we never had to see Carson in that spot but yeah I just think that that that offense the way that it was operating with him I I mean they

were it was so good it was such a joy to watch they were hitting on all that like they were converting at a higher rate on third and 10 plus the team most of the league or half the league was operating on the third all third downs like that that offense was so explosive so dynamic they were still efficient yeah I got to think that they still would have crossed the goal line there. So let's continue to flesh us out a little bit more. So they win the Super Bowl or they don't win the Super Bowl. Regardless, Carson Wentz is coming back as like an elite quarterback in the NFL.

He's healthy going in the year three. There's no Nick Foll's shadow at that point, right? Nick Folls never steps in and is, you know, this iconic Philadelphia player at that point. What's Carson Went? What's the rest of Carson Wentz's career like? Does he build on that? Is like, is year three even better than year two? He doesn't, I mean, physically, he's not breaking down here in this, you know, what if scenario.

So you don't, you, you still have like the full Carson Wentz experience. Mentally, he's not breaking down here because that doesn't happen with Nick Foles. If they win, especially if they win, yeah. Exactly. So you're going into year three thinking you have the best young quarterback in the NFL. What happens? He might still be the quarterback here, now, right now. Wow. Right? Like there's a timeline where that exists, in my opinion. And again, just go,

I think that we can be quick to forget, not you, but like we as a collective, can be quick to forget just how good that offense looked during the regular season when he was healthy. They just, again, what they were, the way, the way that he was attacking all three levels of the field, the run game married with the past game. And a lot of that was like, we talked about the quarterback incubator and, you know, you had John Di Flippo and Frank Reich and Doug Peterson, all working together and that that whole coaching staff was outstanding and what they were able to put together you know on both sides i do think they they probably win the super bowl but even if they don't if they fall short i still think that carson like if you're talking about like he's never he's not

injury prone after that he's not and he's he is the guy he probably has a statue in front of the building yeah it's amazing to think about right the history of the eagles is dramatically different yeah uh if if carson wince never tore his ACL we don't know if they have a Lombardi trophy or not, but I agree. Carson's the quarterback for the next decade. Yeah. And he gets that new deal two years later. Unless there's nothing, you know, you could say the body was going to break down at some point. But in this hypothetical scenario, the body doesn't break down. The Eagles are even more committed to Carson once than they've ever been. And he's the quarterback for the decade. There's a statue here of him. No one wears number 11 again in Eagles history.

So, yeah, I mean, the post-carcin era has been amazing for the Eagles here, right? I mean, this is, I think Eagles fans are living in the best stretch in Eagles history. It's hard to say that, I mean, it's hard to think that, you know, when they had a point when they were in three NFC champion, I'm sorry, four NFC championship games and four consecutive years under Andy. But you look at this now and they've been to the Super Bowl two of the past three years. They won once. Like, this is the golden era of Eagles history. and this only happened after they traded Carson Wentz.

Right. And so, and that's what to me. Yeah, it's hard for some people to envision what the best possible outcome would have been with Carson, knowing how things have gone since then and how they, especially for Carson. I mean,

currently unsigned. Like not, not on an NFL, right? Not on an NFL team right now. You know, and has been basically hanging by a thread for the last couple of years. But yeah,

to me, that was within the range of outcomes. When I was looking at this one and thinking about how things to could have played out. Very well. Again, he could have a statue outside with two Lombardi trophies on his mantle. So those were the top 10 what ifs in Eagles history.

And again, these are relatively recent Eagles history here. This was a fun exercise. Let me ask you, are there any that we're not on there that you think could have or should have or that we omitted? I'd have to think about none that immediately come to mind. I mean, obviously, when I, when I think of like what ifs, I think of just outside, like I think of back to like when I,

when I was a kid and, you know, when I'm like, all right, like, what if, uh, they beat the bucks in 2002, right? To me like that, all right, that team wins that. They beat that, they beat that, they beat the Raiders, uh, you know, a couple weeks later. Um, I talked, I said the story about my dad earlier. That was that, I remember that game so vividly, the NFC championship game, last game at the vet. Uh, it was my dad's birthday. We had everybody, the whole family over. Uh, saw all of his brothers, you know, my, my grandma, like, everybody's over. And we're watching the game. Ronde Barber catches the interception and starts,

my dad gets up, walks out of the room. And anytime that play ever aired on TV, anywhere, he immediately was, he never once watched Ronde Barber across the goal. Wow. It was like it would be like a running joke. It was that and Joe Carter, like the Joe Carter way. 1973.

Not, we're not seeing that ball leave the park. But with that team in particular, that is definitely a what if team. for sure. Yeah, that's a good one. I look back, what if they didn't move on from Andy Reed

following the, the 2012 season? And look, I think both sides were ready for a break at that point, but Andy was the best quarterback, oh, I'm sorry,

the best head coach in Eagles history. You know, what if Chip Kelly doesn't take that job? If he stays at Oregon and they go with Gus Bradley, you know, what could potentially happen there?

So from my time covering the team, those were some, that stick out, you know, I think back to, you know, what if you weren't able to trade for Carson Wends, right? What if they, they, they couldn't get that number two pick, getting from 11 to 2? That's, that's one that sticks out. If you go back even earlier than that, like the early Andy Reed era, or, you know, you'd think back to T.O. What if, if, if, if T.O. did not get injured. Now, T.L. returned for the Super Bowl and had a fantastic Super Bowl, but if he didn't get injured, or how about this?

What if the Eagles paid T.O. after that year? Right. And the T.O. relationship didn't fracture. Ever Sours, yeah. And you have, I mean, he was the best receiver. That season was so special that 2004 season.

So, yeah, I would guess, you know, what if the T.O. relationship didn't sour is probably a good one to put on this stuff. Yeah, I think that that's probably one to, you know, they'll probably stick out if we were to say, in the last 30 years. I think that probably makes the cut. If you have any that you want us to discuss, that you want us to look into, whether it's tomorrow's episode or future episodes, leave it in the comments, rate review. We will check them all out. And Fran and I will be back tomorrow with some training camp previews. So we'll be back 2 o'clock tomorrow, our regular, our normal time.

Until then, this has been a fun show. This has been a fun primetime episode. We thank Julia, our outstanding head of production here. Fran, as always, brings it the best draft analyst in the business. For second best. For Julia, for Fran. I'm Zach. If Boer here, we would say, as always, we love you.

I would say, we'll do better tomorrow. Thanks for watching.