PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Training Camp Countdown: Who steps up on the defensive front with Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith?

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

With training camp one week away, the training camp countdowns with a look at the defensive line and edge rushers. You know Jalen Carter and Nolan Smith will have key roles. Jordan Davis is a key player. Who else will emerge? Moro Ojomo and Jalyx Hunt are poised for bigger roles. Zach Berman and Fran Duffy discuss. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

edition of the PHLY Eagle Show. We are brought to you by DoDat Dental Group. I'm Zach Berman. That's Fran Duffy. And we are six days away from the first practice of training camp. The hardest time of the year on the PHLY Eagles show is from the draft to training camp. And we are almost finished there. We almost have just daily football reports.

Well, we have daily football reports regardless. But daily updates with the Eagles, stuff changes, stuff's going on. Friend, are you as excited as I am for the football season around the corner? Very, very excited. I would think that that means your sleep's going to be getting better, right? That's what everyone wants to know. Yeah. Yeah.

In case my wife's watching right now, yes, my sleep will get better. Yes, my sleep will get better. I will work on it. I'll make sure I get the bed at a reasonable hour. But honestly, I'm excited. I'm excited because, you know, we, We had a short or a mini pod, as we call it, on Saturday about like our favorite things of training camp. I saw the schedule, the early mornings.

I'm excited for that. Looking forward to being able to speak to the coaches, seeing the players. And it also means that we're narrowing down on these position previews. We finished the offense. Jamie and I spoke about the linebackers. And we don't have that many days left here. So we got to squeeze these. on positions in the shows, we got D-Line and edge rushers today.

This is an important position. The great thing is these are all guys that you've scouted. These are guys that, you know, it's a younger group, right? And so there's a lot of intrigue, not just about the top of the roster, but throughout the roster at this position. Yeah, it's a group that, you know, historically we know how much the Eagles organization values the defensive front and the idea of the bus rush, right? And it not necessarily it's a crossroads, but it's a little bit different than what Vic Fangio has prioritized in places that he has been as he has continued to build out the roster where piecemeal a pass rush together. Obviously, everyone loves to have blue chip players everywhere. But it always feels like with the Fangio defenses that the impotence is, you know, the importance is on the back to front as opposed to front to back.

But this is a talented group. Still improved, but a talented group. I'm excited to dissect a little bit. Yeah, so we're going to get into that. Before we do, I just want to let everyone know. If you missed it last night, 7 o'clock, we had a fun show. It's been rank week all week this week at PHLY, and we had the Eagles what-ifs last night,

where we went through 10 what-ifs. I thought Fran had great insight on kind of what these sliding doors would have been, some of the butterfly effects of these moves. So make sure you check that out. That was not at our traditional 2 o'clock time. but that did happen last night. So let's get right into this now. And let's start with the defensive tackle.

So the interior defensive line here. And obviously the headliner is Jalen Carter. We're all going to be watching Jalen Carter. This falls into the category of we'll see you on September 4th. But as an astute observer of practice, which you and Bo are, like what stands out about Jalen Carter when you watch a practice? When you watch a one-on-one drill with him, what stands out? I mean, certainly the physical tools stand out.

You know, you see the explosiveness for a man. You see the power in his hands, that ability to, like, shock a blocker right on contact. You almost, you look for like that knockback on a guy's helmet. And you see that constantly with Jalen Carter when he engages. I would say, like, even going back to his rookie year, you know, in 2023, the, it was like one play a day that Jalen Carter would make. And you would be like, wow. You know, it was what you would have one moment a day.

And I would expect that to continue, obviously. And I think you get to the point now where you expect it to be more than one play a day, whether it was joint practices, whether it was 11 on 11s or one-on-ones, you want Jalen Carter to be flashing. And I would expect that here coming into his third season. You know, Bo has done such a great job of illustrating in the past about how defensive tackle. It could be a little bit of a slow burn position. It could take guys a little bit of time to really hit their stride at that spot.

We know what Jalen Carl looked like in his first two years. I think Jeremy Fowler, you know, when he did his top 10 position, you know, players at each position, had him at number three. That speaks to the talent leader here. The guy that's, again, going into year three,

still ascending. The ceiling is sky high here for Jalen Carter. Yeah, what I'm expecting is the national reporters to come through. And you started to get these think pieces. Like, could Jalen Carter be the best defensive player in football this year, right? Because I'm telling you, like, that is on the table. Certainly, best defensive linemen in football. You spoke about those rankings. This is something that I

chatted with Jailen Carter about back in the spring where you got your Dexter Lawrence and Chris Jones. But Jailen Carter wants to be in that group, right? And I think the talents there, I think the opportunities there. One of the big takeaways from his season last year was the conditioning level that he played at, right? And that was a big focus when Clint Hurt came here, when Vic Fangio came here. And I thought, like, you know, he plays every snap in that postseason game. And it's the second to last snap and the last snap on defense when he makes two plays that you could say save the Eagle season, right? I mean, if he doesn't penetrate the line there and get to Matthew Stafford, that ball could go to what, Tyler Higbee for the touchdown.

So, yeah, I mean, I'm expecting Jaylon Carter to emerge into an even better version of himself. But the question here at defensive line is not how Jamal and Carter looks. It's the other two starters or, you know, the other, the top of the depth chart more than anything else. Milton Williams, not here anymore, right? Jordan Davis signs the fifth year, or I'm sorry, his fifth year options exercise, which is the, now it's Bo's favorite graphic ever from the Eagles Twitter account where it's just exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise. They have to put that out. And so Jordan Davis, we'll talk about him and we'll talk about Moro Ouma.

Those two players are really in the spotlight. I'll turn it over to you. What are you looking for from Jordan Davis at this camp and this season? Yeah, and again, it goes back to the Jalen Carter conversation where this is a position that can take guys a little bit to be able to find that that stride right you know we always i think when the optimist with jordan for jordan davis is like all right like this is a guy that is still putting it together and he's showing flashes uh but you know can can he reach that ceiling i feel good about it you're seeing the flashes every week you know if you look at dexter long as you know one of the best uh you know

players that the position in the nfl i believe he came in number two uh on army fowler's list if memory serves. When you're looking at Dexter Lawrence, I don't believe his option, his fifth year option was picked up by the New York Giants. Like he played that that five year and then signed that big extension when he really hit. So if you're, if you are an optimist with Jordan Davis, you're saying, all right, you follow that plan. Maybe he could still reach that ceiling. I'm a little bit hesitant to say that he's going to, I feel worse about it now than I did a year ago or 18 months ago. That said, I still do think that this is a guy that's that the arrow is still pointing up his best football very well still could be ahead of him talking about Jordan

Davis the big thing you want to see number one like beyond being on the field on a more consistent basis we're not going to be able to see that over the course of training camp so the volume of snaps will be important but then number two to take that next step as a rusher and that that's ultimately what you're looking for is if he's going to earn more snaps it's going to be because got better or on down he got better at being able to attack offensive guards at attack offensive centers, where it's not just a flash here and there, but he's got the ability to win as a rusher off the ball and be able to affect the quarterback. Yeah, so I'm always trying to become a better version of myself,

especially in observing practice. So how can we tell in practice, if I'm watching Jordan Davis in these past rush reps, because you're not sacking the quarterback right now. You can get in his face and they blow the play dead. but generally speaking, are you looking for how he can disengage blockers? Are you like, is it the first step? What will be an indicator that he's improved as a pass rusher? I think the big thing, you know, what I would like to see personally is the,

it's not necessarily like get off the ball and bench press the offensive lineman backwards. Now, if he's doing that all the time, I love that, right? But you don't want the rare flash to only click. because honestly that's what he has been right the the plays that we've seen from him have been when you know what he's just bigger more explosive stronger than the guy across from him and it's in a while that talent is going to rise to the surface and he's just going to physically dominate that one individual rep what you'd like to see is either more of those plays where he physically dominates or what i'm kind of hoping to see is more where he wins with skill and you just kind of see hey you know what uh quick

arm over move and now he's in the back field or you know he quickly like swims through you see a rip move and he's able to dip his shoulder and get past the guard and get into the backfield. You'd like to see more clips like that, more worse like where now that shows, you know what, like he's taking that next step from a technical proficiency standpoint. He's better with his hands now at the top of the rush. He can win off the ball early. If he's able to do that now we're cooking with gas. And I think the other thing that also gets undersold with Jordan Davis as well, and I think this

goes to the conditioning part of things is that, you know, we all think, oh, well, he's got to get better as a rush or he's got to get better as a rusher. is not like a consistently dominant run defender yet either. Certainly better as a run defender than he is as a rusher, but he is not like, you know, Linval Joseph in his prime. Where he's like, oh, yeah, like this guy,

he's not Vita Vaya where it's like, oh, this guy is dynamite against the run. And all right, what he gives you in the past game is, you know, cherry on top. He still needs to get better and more consistent there as well.

Not that he's bad. But yeah, I'd like to be able to see that, you know, that step up as well in that phase of the game. Yeah, he was at, you know,

I think 445 snaps last year. Right? So that's what, you know, like like 20 to 25 a game. And you're going to need to see that jump. And it's it's not just conditioning, right? It's, it's impact on the game. Right. I mean, I think the conditioning. And I'll give him credit. He he did improve as the season progressed. And Vic Fangio said like you saw in the playoffs him have an impact. You know, I was at a camp the other day giving a speech, a little flex there. And I was doing, I was doing trivia. And it's like, who are the players who had sacks in the Super Bowl, right? And Jordan Davis, you know, he was on the sack sheet in the Super Bowl. So, you know, you can see him. You don't have to squint to see a version of Jordan Davis that is one of the better defensive tackles in the league.

That's why the Eagles exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, that fifth year option. but yeah, it needs to be done on a more consistent basis, and we will see what happens here during training camp. So then let's slide over now to probably the most intriguing defensive tackle this summer. Like the one who is going to be the guy who really needs to take a step up this year, and that's Moro Ojima. Moro Jima actually it's actually Moro Ojamo now. It's the original way.

I keep going. It's Moro Ojamo. Now, so, and Bo will get into the background of the name change and change back. But Moro Ojimo, or Ajoomo, at 490 snaps. I got so used to saying Ojima that, you know, now it's like, I'm trying to figure out which way to go. He was at 490 snaps last year. He was really pushing Milton Williams' playing time later in the year, right? Milton Williams now, one of the highest paid defensive players in the NFL.

And Morrow was pushing him for playing time. This is someone who I know you liked him coming out of Texas. The development from year one to year two was huge. Now year two to year three, he's the top three defense alignment for the Eagles. He's going to have a big role on this defense. What's the expectation for Morrow this summer? Yeah, I think for me, obviously, with the expanded role, now you're hoping that he flashes pretty consistently.

And he did flash, you know, whenever he was out there, you know, working with the second and third team units in years past. But now, yeah, like you said, he's going to be a work team unit more often than not. You're going to see him in nickel. You're going to see him in base. You're going to see him in sub. So I think when you're looking at more Ojimo, the big thing is just continuing to, to honestly, hear his name and see like, everyone right down, what number was that?

Who did you? Oh, was that Ojimo again? Like, you want that to be kind of the buzz. on the sideline for us in the media core. And I think when you're looking at him, the physical skill set, uh, skill set stands out when you're looking at morrow.

Yeah, this is a kid who's got outstanding length, a great first step. He's really explosive. He's strong. He's powerful. You know, the big thing with why he fell so late in the draft was that,

yeah, he didn't even have numbers at Texas, but all the efficiency metrics were extremely high. He was extremely young. He went, he arrived at college when he was 16. So even though he was a fourth or fifth year guy coming out, he was still a 21 year.

year old rookie. So this is a guy who's still young, still coming into his own. Again, he's another player where it's like, all right, if he continues to take those next steps, you're excited about what his future could look like. And the Eagles are hoping that some of his highest points we're going to be able to see them earlier rather than later here this year. Was a 16-year-old friend Duffy ready to go to college? Like, you know, could you have, no? Could you have hung in Austin at 16, 17 years old? No. I mean, could I have, yes. Should I have? Absolutely not. I think that would have been a disaster. I think that, yeah, we all, though we all take our own time, take our own journey. I guess I mean, I'll defer to Julia here because Julia knew me at 16.

Julie's in the chat, yeah. I don't think I'm much different at six. I don't think I was much like different at 18 than I was 16. I certainly wasn't any taller at 18 than I was 16. And but no, I think that I was, I was probably one of those like 14 year olds going on to 40 back when I was 14. And so, I mean, I would have looked out of place. But I don't think like I would have been, I don't think I was much different when I got to college than I was at 16 years old. I think when I graduated college, I was probably a little bit different. But, but I think that like my. my sophomore year to my senior year in high school. Yeah, besides like, you know, four at bats in baseball during that period, I was, I was probably just same.

I'll defer to Julia, though. Julia is a keen sense of people. So let's go, well, here, I was going to make a natural transition to an older college player, Ty Robinson. But I do want to flesh out this Moro-Ogemo conversation a little bit more because you talk about the versatility. that he had and the jump. Now, statistically, it's not like he had this great year. I mean, he didn't have his first sack until the postseason, right? But you saw him have an impact on games.

Is he going to have to be a threat as a pass rusher this year? Is it like, and I know this is a stretch to say when you saw Milton Williams' contract, but can he be what Milton Williams was last year? Like, is that reasonable to expect? Morrow to be what Milton was last year. It's probably a little lofty to it was last year. Now, you can expect is he what Milton was in year two? I think that that is certainly an expectation.

It's achievable. I think that when you're looking at Morrow, the Eagles are putting a lot on him because it's reasonable to expect that Jordan Davis does not take that step. And if Jordan Davis does not take that next step and his role doesn't change, then you need Morrow to play a lot of snaps inside. And so I do, he's got a skill set to be able to do it. I think he's got the ability to be a big time pass rusher and run defender,

much in the same way that Milton was. We all talk about Milton's ability to get after the quarterback, and he's a former defensive end at Louisiana Tech. He was also like a dynamite run defender. And so when I look at Morrow, he's got that same twist where you can hold up the point at the point of attack in the run game. He can win from multiple techniques, but he also has that pass rush upside as well. Now, the player that I think is going to have a bigger role in this team than I don't want to say people think.

I don't know what people think. But then maybe what is being like written about or discussed right now is Ty Robinson. And you talk about the age with more. Ty Robinson is on the opposite end of that. You know, this is what, a 24-year-old rookie, like a six-year player. Was he six-year-year player at Nebraska? I think six-year player in Nebraska. Seven-year, Beau would have.

Beau would have thrown a fit on the set and draft. Yeah, six-year player in Nebraska. And, you know, to me, you don't take a six-year player, 24-year-old, with the expectation that he's going to develop two, three years from now. It's thinking like, all right, this guy's ready to play. And when you watch, you know, there was a great film session that Fran did with the diehards going through all the draft picks. And you can see that like you can see Ty Robinson physically is there, right?

He's he's ready for the NFL. Athletically, you look at the athletic testing. He's there. He's ready for the NFL. So can Ty Robinson actually be a key piece of this defensive line rotation? Yeah. And that's why honestly, like when you when you sit back and you think about the Ty Robinson selection, selecting an older player who might be a little bit more ready made coming out of the box makes sense considering

the risk you are taking with Jordan Davis and with more Ojojo Mo, because if Jordan David does not take that next step, and if Ojoimo isn't quite ready for the limelight, well, now you have another piece that can come in and it could be a little bit of a time share there between Ojo Mo and with Robinson. Now, if Ojoimo does hit, all right, so Ojoin slides in, he becomes Milton Williams right now. Well, now Ty Robinson, you can bring him along. He can be what OJamo was last year, which was a very valuable rotational piece. And I think that would be the idea for Ty Robinson and based off my evaluation, but I think when you're looking at that addition, thinking back, you know, I think in the in the moment,

I was like, oh, like a solid player, but not a guy I'm like going crazy for. But I do think that it makes sense given his high floor when you look at the dynamic in the rest of the room. Yeah, I like that he can play multiple spots along that defensive line. I think there's, there's similarities to Morrow and to Milton Williams there. Now, he's, he's older than a Morrow-Ojimo, right? And so the age keeps coming up because I don't view him the way I viewed Keeley Ringo when Keeley Ringo was a fourth round pick for the Eagles, right? Like Keele Ringo is like, all right, this is a down the line pick. This is a guy who the Eagles want and they want to develop him.

I think we need to see Ty Robinson look like he belongs from the first, you know, preseason game, first few weeks of camp because I'm expecting Ty Robinson to be active and to play a role on the team this year. Yeah. I think that, you know, going in and we have some questions in the chat about like, all right, you know, how much five tech will tie Rob to me? Like that that is his best role. And when you're looking at the fronts that Vic Fangio uses, you're often going to get those guys, you know, because Ojo Mo is the same way. Milton Williams is the same way where they're going to play head up over the tackle.

When you're talking about a five technique, you are lined up, head up over the tackle, maybe slightly outside, like the outside shade of the offensive tackle. So you're playing in a phone booth there, like, you know, head to head. That's where Robinson, that's, to me, that's where. he is best cast just because of his body type. But he can, again, to your point, he can kick inside to be a traditional three technique. He can line up even a step further outside and still be effective.

So I think that that versatility will definitely play a role in terms of what his usage looks like here as a rookie. Now, Thomas Booker's watching this at home saying, you went through the whole A block and you haven't talked about me yet. Thomas, I apologize. We are going to talk about you in the B block, so stick around. I want to tell everyone about gold. Golden Nugget Jewelers, okay?

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They've got tips for everything. Heating, cooling, lighting, you name it. That, that remains, that ad remains the highlight of every show. We're going to get to the defensive tackles here. But before we do, I just wanted to deviate real quick. There's no graceful transition in this. On a somber note, Brian Brayman, a former Eagle, special teams player, linebacker, a Super Bowl champion with Eagles, passed away.

Our thoughts are with Brian Brayman's family and his former teammates and all his friends. You've seen an outpouring of support for him. You know, I covered Brian Brayman. I don't, it would be disingenuous for me to suggest I knew him well. I enjoyed the conversations that I had with him. But I know that his teammates always talked about, like, his intensity, his passion out there, the way he played the game. And he was someone who was liked in the locker room. You've seen that from teammates.

I don't know, Fran, if you got a chance to get to know him at all. But, yeah, very tragic debt at the age of 38. Yeah, obviously, you know, all thoughts, you know, with his family and his loved ones. You know, to your point, like, I won't say that I was, like, super close with Brian and develop a relationship with him. But what I will say is that truly, like, a unique guy, right, in terms of, like, you know, things, how he carried himself off a few. Like, just a unique guy. But there are a lot of players that are in an NFL locker room who are really unique in that way that not everybody's able to relate to. But he is a guy that it feels and hearing a lot of his former teammates talk about him, not just like today, but over the course of the last couple of weeks is the report was sick and was fighting this form of cancer.

All of them were like, he was one of my favorite teammates from that year. He was one of my favorite teammates in Houston. You know, this guy that was able to connect with so many different people from all walks of life. I think that that speaks to his character. Well said. Well said. So again, no graceful transition here, but we will move back on to the defensive tackles. And the first one up is the player I spoke about before the break.

And that's Thomas Booker. Thomas Booker was a part of the team last year, made the roster out of training camp. And the preseason was a testament to, you know, the player development program that the Eagles have. that Connor Barwin helps oversee. And I liked what I saw from him last summer. He didn't have like a major role on the team last year. I played 166 snaps. But someone who, you know, is the backup nose tackle, the Jordan Davis, I imagine.

And I would guess that he keeps that job. Yeah, I think so. I think when you're looking at Thomas Booker, you know, one of the things I like is that he's another one, kind of like what I was saying with Ojima, where, he hold up at the point of attack, but he also has some quickness, too. He can make players on the other side of the line. We saw that in flashes, in spurts last year, albeit in a small sample just because of the depth up front.

I think when you're looking at Booker, there's reason to be excited about, you know, what he could look like with a little bit of an expanded role by 2025. Yeah. You know, he's also, I know when Bo watches back or listens to it, Bo is going to uproll his eyes when I say this. He's a smart guy. He went to Stanford. But he is, you know, he's always, I always enjoy speaking to Thomas Booker.

He has a good perspective on things. And, yeah, the Eagles don't really have that backup nose in terms of like the body type of a Jordan Davis. And Thomas Booker fits that. So really, it's the defensive tackles are fairly well defined. There are two players here who will try to push to make the roster. The first one's Byron Young, who, interestingly, the Eagles, they signed him off, off waivers last year. He stayed on the team. You know, he was on the 53, went on IR. He's someone who obviously the Eagles saw upside.

And I'm going to ask you about him in a second. But then the other player two is Gabe Hall. Gabe Hall, it was an undrafted rookie last year who was on the practice squad throughout the year. and, you know, the Eagles brought him back. He has good length. And, you know, there were people who thought he was a draftable player a year ago. So Gabe Hall and Byron Young, two players that you scouted relatively recently, what's your view of them going into the summer? Yeah, I honestly, I had a higher grade on Gabe Hall when he was coming out of back.

You know, because you saw the length, you saw the explosiveness, that ability to make plays the other side of the line. He was a little bit unrefined still and you saw like, all right, like he's going to need a little time. But I thought that the tools there showed up in a more consistent way. Whereas with Byron Young, I just kind of saw him as a replacement level kind of rotational backup nose. To me, I think when we're talking about the difference between him and Thomas Booker, Thomas Booker consistently is able to make plays the other side of the line. I talk about that initial quickness. And he's got that ability to penetrate. Byron Young never really showed that to me when he was at Alabama.

And so I saw him in more just kind of a deep end of the depth chart, you know, kind of back end roster, rotational player. I was shocked when he was a third round pick from the Raiders a couple of years back, just because I didn't quite see that level of upside. So when I'm comparing him to Gabe Hall, I think Hall is a guy I'm more excited and I'm a little bit more intrigued by coming into the summer. I'm interested to see what you can look like here and year two.

Yeah, I think actually, Byron Young, I believe, got called. They called the wrong Byron Young at one point. Was it the Raiders? There was some story that because there was the other Byron Young in the draft. And one of the Byron Young that went to the Rams, yeah, right. Yeah, it got called when the Raiders picked him. Yeah.

But Byron Young, this is the Alabama, Byron Young, not the Tennessee, Byron Young. So we'll see how. The Tennessee, Byron Young would have looked better with the... the Raiders. Exactly. What's done with the ramps? Exactly. So we'll see how those guys look this summer,

but they are probably on the outside looking in, at least going into camp. So then moving over to the edge rushers. And I have a lot of questions about edge rushers this summer. I mean, I think this is a position where the Eagles could still add. We'll see if that happens. They're obviously hoping that some of these lottery ticket players emerge,

but the key player in this group is Nolan Smith. The 2003 first round pick, he was a first round pick. I just want to make that clear. Okay, so if you predicted him to go in the first round, and for the Eagles to take him, and he was the Eagles first round pick that year, and a slow start to his rookie season. And then last year, final preseason game,

not necessarily, you know, he's dressing for that game. He's like the only one who was dressing for that game among the starters and really came on late last year, emerged, had a huge year. In these last 15 games, including the playoffs, 10 and a half sacks, this is a poised to be a breakout player. What's your view of Nolan Smith going into year three?

Excited to see what he looks like, because we saw on the back end of last season, you know, what he was able to do in terms of taking that next step as a rusher. He's always been a really stout, strong run defender, a really violent player at the point back. We've talked about the plays endlessly that he made in the postseason, you know, in that area of the game where he takes out Elton Jenkins.

He takes out Trey Smith. He did in that postseason run was extremely viable for the Ziegles defense. But it's not just those kind of highlight plays. He's also been extremely consistent in that area of the game. So run game, you feel really good. Past game was the question with him coming out. He was not a refined rusher. He had power.

He had explosiveness. He had length, the ability to turn the corner and close. So he had all the physical attributes. He didn't have put together when he was at Georgia. You only saw it in little spurts in the production, like I said, was not there, really, until his final year, which was the first time he became like a full-fledged star for that defense. So I think when you're looking at it, all right, can he take that next step in that area, build off what we saw in the second half of 2024, where he was one of the more productive pass rushers in the entire NFL down the stretch? So I think when you're looking at Nolan Smith, health is the big thing because he had the shoulder injury, you know, Super Bowl. So I do want to ask what's your understanding of his health as we go into camp.

But I think when you're looking at Nolan, health is the big thing. And then if he continue to build from a technical side of it, from a mental approach side of it as a rusher, if he does that, like he's going to be one of the better young rushers in football this year. Yeah, I think that he's he's going to be healthy at the start of camp. That's that's my expectation. He was really progressing this spring. You saw him strike in the final mandatory minicamp or the only day of mandatory minicamp. So yeah, you're absolutely right. He is he's the headliner in this group.

I think double-digit sacks is reasonable given the way that he finished last season. The versatility is there, the playing styles there. You know, I heard Nolan Smith when he was on the exciting mics. And by the way, make sure you check out. exciting mics today with Chris Long. We have a new one out today. Great job, Brita, Julia, everyone in the PHLI production staff putting that together. But yeah, I look at Nolan Smith and I think that his ability to do everything out there. You know, you see a player who's 240 pounds and you can't, with that athleticism and you're thinking, all right, pass rusher, pass rusher, pass rusher. No,

you know, what actually he does really well is his ability. to like set an edge, the chase down. I mean, he is such a complete player for them. Nick Siriani's expecting him to be a leader of this team. Brandon Graham's expecting him to be a leader of this team. So I am eager to see what Nolan Smith looks like year three. And Nolan Smith's always been a fairly confident guy, at least outwardly. You know, I'm not, I'm not, you know, in his inner soul and to know if that's the case.

But, you know, I think that the way. way he finished last year just needs to buoy that needs to lift that confidence even more, expecting a huge year from Nolan Smith this year. Yeah, I agree. And the Eagles are hoping for it. You know, obviously you let Milton Williams go. You let Josh Sweat walk in free agency. So, you know, Brandon Graham retires.

They need a guy like Nolan Smith to be able to take that next step as a rusher. Go a big way towards this defense, trying to replicate some semblance of the effectiveness they had last year. Any list of breakout eagles this year will include J. Alex Hunt. And part of that is because of the playing style. Part of that's because of the opportunity. Josh Sweat's not here anymore. Brandon Graham's not here anymore. J.O. O.O.X. Hunt, as Vic Fangio said, is going to play a lot more this year than he did last year.

And he is, I'm expecting him to be the starter. Jail XOX Hunt is someone who a few years ago was playing safety at Cornell. So he was well educated going to an Ivy League school. but he wasn't playing, you know, he wasn't playing edge rusher then. Two years ago, he was playing edge rusher at a small school. I mean, I've watched his college film and like, you know, it looks like it was shot with a camcorder in 1998, right? I mean, you don't, it's, this isn't like watching SEC film. But Jay Alex Hunt did pop on that film and he popped last year.

I think, you know, I expected last year last year to be more of a redshirt year than it was. and he's someone who was in there, was playing, and now year two, it's like Jayalxon, you're a starter. What do you think of Jayalxon this year? First off, shots fired at Houston Baptist and their video team for whatever equipment they've got down there. I will say I enjoy watching Jaylickson because that would be a school where when you're watching the film,

you might be able to see like a bouncy house outside the stadium, all kinds of stuff happening, you know, out in the stand. So those games are always... Now to your question about Jelik's hunt, I am hoping that we see a guy that takes that next step, you know, because look, the tools are all there. You know, I posted something. It was the day he got drafted, you know, so, you know, going back to last April, when he got drafted by the Eagles, and you look at his length, and this is all just like combine measurements, his combination of length and explode this, like jump vertical jump members, there were only like three or four rushers drafted in the first three rounds in the last 10 years. that had the same combination. It was like Garrett, Danelle Hunter,

uh, and like another pro bowl rusher and Jalix Hunt, right? The tools are unique here when you're looking at what Jalick's hunt brings to the table. I think the big thing is can he continue to just kind of put, put it all together mentally? You know, is he able to take that next step,

a position he has not played often. Uh, he was thrown into the fire last year earlier. I think that they would have liked, um, and we had to become a full time player, uh, more of a full time player after Brandon Graham,

dream, you know, off the bench, he did fine. Obviously, he had the sack in the Super Bowl. It became a little bit more impactful down the stretch, but it was a guy who was still swimming a little bit, which is to be expected. I go back to like the development, the career development plan with Josh Sweat, where year one was a shirt year, year two, you started to see really good flashes and year three was when he started to break out. I think with Jaylux Hunt, you're hoping that's accelerated a little bit because of the need

at the position for the Eagles. But I think at the end of the day, this is a good. guy that's got all the traits. He's a great kid. By all accounts, like hard worker off the field. So I'm excited for what could be the next really strong Eagle, young Eagles pass rusher. Now, Professor Selman, we know watches every single press conference. And I appreciate that.

That Professor Selman has that type of dedication. Maybe those in the audience now in the chat watching or either watching the replay or listening to the replay, haven't heard Joe Exxon speaking. yet. I would recommend this year whenever you see clips post game during the week, like, listen to this guy. This guy's going to be a fan favorite. I mean, he has that type of personality that I think fans are going to gravitate toward. He certainly has, I think, a story that fans can appreciate. I mean, he earned everything. You know, he, I remember talking to him at last season, early last season, And when I was like, what perspective do you have now?

What's something that you appreciate about the NFL that like one of these SEC guys wouldn't? And he like thought about it. And he's like the equipment staff, right? Like the idea that you can just get any piece of equipment that you want. Like this is all, you know, it's not rationed in that regard. Like it's, you know, he has an appreciation for being in the NFL. I think fans are going to just soak up Joe Exxon, especially. If the play matches the opportunity matches the personality.

So pay attention to J Alex Hunt this year and stick around a few minutes from now to see who could push Jalox Hunt for playing time. Could it be Aziz Ojalari? Could it be Josh Uche? Is there a potential trade down the line? Could it be a draft pick that Fran did a good job breaking down? You'll hear that in a second. I want to talk to everybody here about our good friends at Empire Today. I'm not in the studio today. I'm at home, but when I'm at the studio and I look down at those floors and I say, you know what, if we need new floors, if we need to fix this, this mouse problem, the place we need to go is Empire today. When I look here, I have carpet in my office here and I say, if I need to upgrade this, I can go to Empire today. Because just like your favorite team needs a home court or home field or home ice advantage, your home needs a home.

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PHLY listeners can receive a $350 discount when using promo code PHLY. Yes, you heard that right. A $350 discount with code PHLI restriction supply. Visit Empire Today slash PHLY for full details. Yeah, you brought up the mice and maybe if you were someone who wanted to make a wager on whether or not would see the mice to the PHLI studios, I don't know that that's available on Bet365, but maybe we make some calls. Let's see if we can get some of the mice wagers up there. But we know our friends at Bet365, they've got 90 million users worldwide.

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You deposit $10. Do you place a bet for five? You get $150 back in bonus bets if your bet wins, you lose. Bonus bets can be used on the spread, totals, player props, futures, and more. whatever the moment, it's never ordinary at Bet365, must be 21 or older and physically located in PA. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800 gambler. So let's get to some super chats here before we finish the edge rushers. First one, Chase Daniel Plainview, we always appreciate your contribution.

What if the 2020 Colts won in the wild card round? So is this a reference to Nick Siriani's interview process? I see you have a smirk on your face. Is there something here that I'm not sure with that? I guess they wouldn't have been able to interview Siriani until later on. So maybe they hire Josh Daniels. I'm sorry, Josh Daniels. Didn't the Siriani interview happen until later anyway just because of how late Doug got fired?

Yeah, but they weren't in the play or, you know, their season was finished at that point. And so when you're saying the 2020 Colts, so that's the 2020 season, the wild card around that that that year yeah um chase uh chiming in in the in the chat what specifically this is referring to this is referring to them not getting seriani then yeah my my guess is josh mcdaniels is the coach and perhaps things are a lot different there i think he he would have been the number two perhaps the eagles would have waited to talk to syriani but you do have have to wait quite a bit at that point um so that's a good question uh i i don't have a good answer there. Could this have been like what Philip Rivers have returned and they wouldn't have been able to trade Carson Wentz there. I'm not sure what specifically that would that would that would be with that that that yeah that I like all these these what ifs. These are always fun. Then Polar Jam with a five dollar contribution. Poehre Jam, you are the man. Thank you, Polar Jam. To my chagrin, I found a mouse in my apartment this morning. Do you have any tips to get rid of this adorable menace? So I'll I'll defer to,

friend in a second, but I did see in our studio the other day, Andrew, our outstanding producer Andrew, created a mousetrap. And I've heard the expression, there's always a better mousetrap. I haven't seen a better mousetrap than this. It was like, it was peanut butter. I've never heard that. I've never heard of that expression ever. You never heard that up. There's always a better mousetrap. All right. I'm looking this up. A better mousetrap. Yeah. Am I wrong? Isn't this expression? build a better mousetrap yeah yeah build a better mousetrap it's a it's it's from ralto emerson if they built a build a better mousetrap is an expression it shows that even having now that's not what you said now you're just looking for mousetrap saying so that's not what you said isn't

that what i said build a better mouse trap i said what you said is there there there's always a better mouse trap. Okay, yeah. So you have to build a better mouse trap. Build a better mousetrap is an expression meaning that you can always find a little, a slightly better solution to the problem, right? Build a better mousetrap. So I saw Andrew, it was something there was, was there peanut butter inside the bucket?

They love peanut butter. Yeah, they love peanut butter. Yeah. And like the, a piece of wood, like, you know, as an incline for the mouse to walk up and to get into that bucket and eat said peanut butter. What's your recommendation for Polar Tran to get rid of the mouse? Peanut butter and snap traps. Okay.

I would say try to build a better mouse trap. I mean, if you want to throw like wood and buckets and stuff like that in there, you can go over it. But I think that this don't do the glue. Don't do the poison. You do you do the snap traps. Honestly, I remember like being younger and my wife, if we, we would ever get mice, like we'd be like the live traps where it's like, oh, they crawl in and then the door shuts behind them and then you relocate.

Mice get back to the house. Like you have to drive them like mile away if they're going to not come back to the house. So yeah, you don't want to do that unless you're going to drive them miles away and drop them in a random forest somewhere. That's great. But otherwise, just do the snap trap. Yeah. So a few years ago, we had mice. And I remember, you know, the kids were downstairs.

I was I was I was I was writing. Emily's screaming for me. You know, I come I come running down. So there's a mouse. There's a mouse. And I said, I said, don't worry.

The mouse is more scared of you than you are of it. And I went back upstairs to work. And I think she wanted me to like she wanted me to fix this mouse problem. Not like not calm everybody down. Not to comment on the mouse. I was like, yeah. I was like, don't worry.

The mouse is more scared of you. Just go on with your day. Everything's fine. I don't think that was, that was, I don't think that's what she was looking for. And that's, but I'm like, I like, like, do I look like an exterminator here? Like, what am I supposed to say? At the end of the least you can go down and say, just, you just look at Emily. It's just like, build a better mousetrap and then just go back upstairs.

Yeah, I, I was trying to, I was keeping everyone calm. I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's my role. It's like, you know, don't get too high. Don't get too low. But, um, Yeah. Here's what you do. You open up the oven, turn the oven on to 450, pick a piece of wood, slab it with peanut butter, put it in the back of the oven. When the mouse crawls into the oven, you close the door and you let the oven do all the work. It always does. There you go. There you go. I could, I could do that. Look, it's it's better than what happens if we see like deer or something like that. I say, hey, they were here first, right? We took their house. You know, they lived here before we got here. That one doesn't go over well either. So given all the husbands out there, some, some things not to say. But yeah, I probably don't want the mouse in my oven, even if the oven does all the work during cooking, huh? Anyways, let's see which edge rushers going to heat up this year.

And among these lottery ticket signings, there are two guys to really watch. And that is Azizzo Jolari, someone who I really advocated for in the free agency process, then Josh Uche. Josh Uche's reached double-digit sacks before. He's someone who Lane Johnson singled out as playing well during the summer. What do you make of these two? And can one of them push J.OX Hunt to start? Yeah, I would say that it's pro. Ojalari is probably the one that I would say is the most likely to try and push him.

I would say that it's probably not the ideal scenario. Look, I was I was really high on Aziz O'Jolari when he was coming out of Georgia a few years back. He's a player that when they, when he selected Landon Dickerson, Ojalari was a guy, was like, oh, like, I would have, I would have maybe liked Ojalari in that spot, you know, just because I like the different ways that he could win. He could win with power. He can win with technique and effort. He had the ability to turn the corner as well.

But injuries have really taken their toll on him so far during his career in the NFL. And honestly, I think that they are, they're starting to show up on tape where he doesn't have that same level of juice, that ability to turn the corner is not quite there. You'll see him kind of stumble when he's turning. We did that film room session at the studio shortly after free agency and just going to Joe Jlar tape. You can kind of see that he's kind of lagging a little bit there from an athleticism standpoint. Now, a year removed from those injuries, maybe that come a little bit better here in 2025.

But I don't know that I've got like super high expectations for him to come in and be a starter. He can still be a serviceable backup and potentially an impactful backup as a first guy off the bench and help you in rushdowns. But I think when you're looking at Ojalari, he's probably just to be like a serviceable replacement level full-time guy and hold up against the run. Whereas with Uche, he's never really been that guy. Like even when he had that double, I think it was a double-digit sack season in New England. He was more like, all right, move him around, do a bunch of different things with him. But on rundowns, early downs, you don't really want him holding the point at the point of attack. You know, he's a smaller body.

Unlike Nolan Smith, like he's not quite that. that same kind of forceful presence at the point. It's not that he's not willing. It's just that at that fame doesn't hold up quite as well. And so I think when you're looking at it, I think Ojalari is probably the more likely to be able to stick as a backup. I think Ushay is probably more likely to be the impact rusher, like on sub-packaged downs and things like that and find a role in that way.

So in a way, I think the way I would look at it is like highest feeling is probably Ushay, but I still think it would be in more of a specialized role. highest floor would be Ojolari, but I'm not like expecting a super high boom there from that signing either. And I don't think either of them are a lot to make the 53. Interesting. I think OjoLari is a lot to make the 53.

Just based on, you know, they gave him the most money of all the free agents this year. The role, I'm expecting Ojalari to be on the, on the 53. Now, we can always see what happens here. He had, I think, you know, five sacks in Kvon Tibido's absence last year. So he showed some flashes there.

He had eight sacks as a rookie. Look, I liked him coming out, Georgia, and I thought that he's the one that the Eagles should target. I was, I was frankly surprised that the price was what it was for him. I thought this was going to be closer to a $10 million year player. I'm intrigued by Aziz. We'll see how it pans out. But I definitely think that there's, you know,

there's, there's talent there, and injury was really the issue. As far as Josh Uche, yeah, I mean, I liked him more two years ago in free agency. He's now two seasons removed from that 11 and a half sack season that he had with the Patriots in 2022. I've heard, for instance, you know, Lane Johnson talked about how this was a tough guy to block two years ago in that season opener. He probably fits the Eagles better than he fit the Chiefs last year. That's actually something Steve Spagnolo said or that Andy Reid said it. And I think Spag said it as well about him undersized. I was curious to see if they would look at him off the ball.

We didn't see that during the spring. There's a chance they, if they need help at summer, this summer they could do that. But these are two players who, yeah, I think if one of them is a meaningful contributor, then you're happy with that. You know, not to kind of compare it to Zach Bonn and Devin White last year. but, you know, Devin White was the guy who I was, I was wrong. I thought Devin White was kind of a bigger role than Zach Bond. But, you know, the Eagles had done this. Yeah, but the Eagles have done this in the past where, you know, they signed multiple

guys at a position, Zach Cunningham and Miles Jack and, you know, and, you know, and Dominant and Sue and Linvald Joseph. And you're just like, all right, if one of these signings hits, then that's fine. You know, the Eagles have tried this at a wide receiver sometimes. So, yeah, I'm curious to see which. one emerges. And then I think that that to your point about if one of them becomes a reliable like role player in peace, I think that's a win.

Then the, the sixth round pick here who, look, Fran did an amazing job with the diehard draft guide. I called the Fran Duffy Draft Guide, the diehard draft guide leading up to the draft. you saw everything you needed to see about Antoine Powell Ritalin, the evil sixth round pick, 16 sacks last season. That's third in the country. Not great as far as the athletic testing is concerned. You know, he's not, he doesn't have like the body type or the length that you look for. But man, 16 sacks in 2024, nine and a half sacks in 2023.

If you think sacks translate, Antoine Powell Rilin's an interesting player to watch this summer. Honestly, like when you look at the body type and the reduction profile and the athletic profile, the body type, very, very reminiscent of Mike Green who went in the second round and was seen as a first round quality prospect out of Marshall. He's kind of like that happens every year where there's like, all right, there's a guy that goes on day one or, you know, in the top 50, but there's a player on day three that's the die Coke version of it. And when I look at Antoine Powell, Powell Island, I feel like he's like the die Coke version of Mike Green. You're talking about a little bit more of a squat of your body, similar from a proportion standpoint to like Bryce Huff. He's got that ability to get off the ball. He's not going to wow you with his like straight line explosiveness.

But this is a guy that can turn the corner. He's top of the rush. He still a little bit of a work in progress in the run game from a technique standpoint from like a play strength standpoint, but the willingness is there. And again, like the ability to win at the top of the rush, I thought was really good. It was extremely productive.

not at a lower level of competition, like in the ACC for two years has been a really productive pass rushers. So where we got him in the draft, I think is fine value. So I'm excited to see what Powell Riland can look like. Again, he's same archetype as Ushay as Bryce Huff, where it's going to be all right. Like, this is an outside, outside edge rusher, like get him out in space and kind of let him run, you know, and get off of the quarterback. That's what you're getting here with Powell Riland. Yeah, and I expect Powell Rylum to be ahead of Patrick Johnson, KJ Henry, O'Shaine Mathis, as the other edge, as the other edge rushers here. I know Patrick Johnson has experience with the team, right? And he's someone who actually, I'll give him credit, every summer he pops, right?

Like he makes plays during camp. You get him on the 53. He can play special teams. He contributes during the preseason. But obviously the Eagles didn't feel the need to keep him last year. but they brought him back for a reason. So given the special team's ability, he's someone who could potentially be in the 53-man ricks,

but I think at least going in the camp, he's on the outside looking in. And then KJ. Henry was someone that the Eagles added the middle of last year or late last year after some injuries and was with the commanders as a rookie. He actually started three games then, was waived last year by the commanders. But he had some,

some pedigree at Clemson. O'Sheane Mathis, a sixth round pick in, in 2023. Of those tree, of that trio that I mentioned, who were you most eager to learn about this summer? Yeah, I think the one that probably catches my eye most when you're looking, talking about that Patrick Johnson, only because we know, like, all right, he can come in and he can play special teams. He's got some position flex and that he can play off the edge. Or, you know, we've seen him moonlight as an offball, like pure staff.

backbacker as well, different defense, but you've seen him do it and play that role. I've kind of seen everything I need to see from KJ. Henry, you know, not just Clemson, but here in the NFL. O'Shaun Mathis, you know, was on the street for a reason, you know, where it's going to get them. You know, when I say that, I mean, like on the pro market. So I think when you're looking at it, to me, Patrick Johnson is the one that would most likely be the one that had to stick.

But, yeah, how do you feel about that trio? Yeah, I think that Patrick Johnson's special teams, ability would give him the edge there. And then, yeah, I mean, KJ. Henry, high character guy coming out, you know, was a big-time recruit when he was at Clemson, you know, fifth round pick in the draft, but never really was the, you know, I don't know if he's guys really going to factor in to the 53. I think I hate to call people camp bodies because you never know. but these guys strike me as, you know, trying to, you know, they're on the third teamers down the depth chart, trying to make at least something in camper.

I have another team see them in preseason film. There could also potentially be a player from the outside that's added. We'll discuss that next in overtime. So the Eagles, this is the spot where I've said you could see them at. somebody. Von Miller off the board. Von Miller's going to Washington now. So Von Miller is someone who I said like could they add him? You know, obviously has that Fangio background or ring chasing age in his career. Not the case. He's going to Washington. This could be a trade at some point. But do you agree with me that the Eagles could look to upgrade at edge rusher just given

what that debt chart looks like? I think so because there stands to reason that you can come in and let's say uh jelix hunt not quite ready for for time time yet uh maybe he still needs another year of seasoning uh and then you look at the other two guys that maybe of the two vets he brought in uche just doesn't quite have it ojolari doesn't look like he's there from a health standpoint so now you have to dip into uh that next set of guys and when i look at the pro market there are names out there guys that can come in whether you're looking for like your pure like designated pass rusher uh or someone that can hold up a little bit better i mean uh a lot of recognizing will names on here some that have a so i'm just going to go through the list just some names that are that

available as and correct if i'm wrong on a few of these but matthew judan unsigned was in Atlanta last year is a derr smiths signed jadevian clown he shekel barrett although i think the worth of the retirement stuff with miami i think that could get a little bit messy preston smith obani oh demarcas walker i played for Vic Fangio in Denver, Jahad Ward, Philly guy, Carl Lawson, Yoniken Gokwe. So there are names out there. So if the Eagles decide, hey, you know what? We want to go and try and sign one of these guys on the pro market.

There are certainly names that they can bring in to help fight with this competition. Yeah, so that's the Zach Cunningham, Miles Jack route, of going for the free agent who's kind of lingering during camp. They could also do the Jahan Dotson thing last year. or what they've done in the past with like C.J. Gardner Johnson, which is trade for a player. And I saw in the chat earlier, Tyree Wilson's name came up. But look, we know how he has draft picks at his disposal this summer. He's not just going to give them away, but the Eagles have the flexibility where if there's a spot on the roster,

where they need someone who can be in the rotation and they're looking for a cost-controlled player, they have the draft inventory to do it. So I would absolutely pay attention to edge rushers as that's, I think that is the top spot. So we are, we're 62 minutes in here. We've, I think with the timing worked out well, we did edge rushers, detackles. Tomorrow will be corners and safeties. I am out of town tomorrow. I'm away with the family this weekend.

One last time before camp. You are in tomorrow with who? with I believe with Hansom Rich. I think Henson Rich and I are either with Rich or Jamie. Look forward to that. By the way, Rich Hoffman's newsletter, best in the city.

Unbelievable. It is awesome. He's clever, comprehensive, gets through. I mean, it is terrific. So make sure you're subscribed to that.

Make sure you're a diehard at all pHly.com. We have all our what if content up there. We're going to have a what if tomorrow on all the Philly sports teams kind of rounds, in the one there. And then,

and then, and then, Bo's back next week. Looking forward to that. He's back on Monday. Yeah. We got training camps starting next week. The Osprey's coming up.

So a lot of fun things going on here at PHLY. Make sure you check that out. Make sure you check out. Fran and Rich tomorrow. Until then, thank you to Fran. Thank you to Ethan. I don't want to say intern, Ethan,

because that thank you just to even Ethan. Ethan does an outstanding job. Always enjoy when he produces. And if Beau were here, he would say, as always, we love you. I'll say, we'll do better tomorrow. My case, we'll do better next week. Thanks for watching.