PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Where in the world is the Eagles’ next OC? Jerrod Johnson, Frank Smith added to growing list

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

Howie looks around the world from Chicago to Miami, he’s a sticky-fingered GM from Houston to Tampa Bay, he’ll bring you for an interview on Jeffrey’s super yacht, tell me where in the world is the Eagles’ next OC? Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome to the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast live from the Xfinity Mobile studio and presented by Bet365 and Ashley Bo Wolf, E.J. Smith, on a snowed-in Monday as we continue everybody's favorite game show. Who wants to be the Eagles O.C? E.J., how are you, my friend? I'm doing well. I got to tell you, Bo, my back is not what it used to be. Shoveling. I always love shoveling, but. It's a young man's game. That's no one's getting heavier. I am actually, I'm actually surprised you don't have some kind of contraption that you don't have. That is very on brand for me. But see, the thing is when I was young man, I used to get like the best money I made before I turned 18 was shoveling for like a landscaping company. Oh my God, I would make so much money.

So I like shoveling. Put on some music. I like shoveling too. But yeah, like the first couple times out, because you got to do it. it in waves. You know, you can't let it pile up. So you've got to be proactive. So the first couple times, it's like that nice powdery snow. It clears right out. It's really easy. Oh, yeah. You could use a broom for that. Yeah, but then after a couple of waves, it's like, man, this snow's getting heavier. Like, am I getting tired? How many, so give us a little bit of a lay the land here,

you know, without, without docks in your location? Sure. Like, what kind of, what kind of shoveling acreage are we talking about here? Okay. Well, I have to do, like, we have got a small deck that have to do and then we have like a patio like a stone walkway and the patio so I do the whole walkway why do you have to shovel the deck just like a pathway just so that we can all walk without stepping on the snow don't shovel the whole thing just just a pathway and then we have a shared driveway and our driveway like it's probably like an eighth of a mile like it is a long driveway um it's not a flex it's not a flex it's not a flex. But because we're so far off the road, we share a driveway. And very fortunately for us, our neighbors have a connection to a guy who plows the driveway. So he plows most of

the drive. A person to know. Okay. But I have to still do what I would consider like a normal driveway's worth of shoveling around what the plow can't get to. Um, so it's still, it's a good amount. It probably takes me like 30, 30 minutes to do everything. Um, and yeah, I was out there. I probably did three or four waves yesterday. And then I woke up this morning and I was like, I have to go back out there. And this morning was the worst. Once morning to the breach. Yeah, but this morning was the worst because that stuff, like you had to break it.

Yeah, you had to break it and then you have to move it. It was basically, yeah, just like ice. So. And you're doing all this while this is your, you still your time home alone. Yeah, no. This is, this was my last hurrah for Bachelor. You're preparing it for the return. I, I'll save the story about how.

how your moral compass came in the clutch for me. But, you know, there's a good story about my last night in bachelordom squalor. Here's my, here's my shoveling story for you. We don't have to deal with much. You know, we're in a, we're in a Philly Row home. So I'm doing the steps. I'm doing the sidewalk and, you know, up to a few neighbors on either side. Other people are pitching in.

So like, I'll come out and they've already done mine. I'll do theirs later. And you want to get, you want to get the car prepped for eventually having to go out. And so, you know, you're getting. you know, you're digging out in front of the car, behind the car, the side of the car. And yesterday I had dug out, you know, the whole side, so it was going to be an easy egress only for the plow to come this morning and, you know, get us back in. So now I'm not even worried about that until it's actually time to get out. But my big thing here is I hadn't really thought about the fact that the only shovel we have is it's like a half size plastic shovel.

that's like it's enough and I'm getting the job done and it's it's fine but I do you do feel some shovel envy it was a little bit of masculating yeah you got to have the one with the metal with the other big hunkers out there I'm like you know you got in a way in a way it's a flex like I can get done the same thing you can get done with this flim's a little tool it's not a flex but in terms of like uh you know Tim Allen hole ho ho I'm like you know I got this little toothpick yeah no like as my uncle would always say you got to work smarter not harder you got to get the one with the blade on the bottom But yeah, to finish this story on my end, like, I got the yoga mat right behind me. You can't see it, but it is there.

There needed to be some happy babies. There needed to be some of like the you pull like you pull your legs up and you massage the lower back. You know, all of the stretching routines that Shield Kabatia gave me, they've been put to good use because, yeah, no, it was, it was tough this morning. Yeah, you know what? I was actually expecting more back pain out of this so far. Oh, it must be nice. I'm crossing my fingers, but it's only just been at a, at a, at a. a dull constant as opposed to a sharp pang.

Yeah, no, I'm hoping I'll be out of the woods, but no, I do, I enjoy shoveling. So I'm not going to complain too much. The last thing I will complain about, though, because everybody's dealing with this stuff. The plow, like, blocked in our driveway or our garages. So I've got like a five-foot amount of snow that's blocking my wife's car in the garage that I will have to deal with at some point. Nice. So, but yeah, she'll be back.

She'll help me with it. Yeah, I mean, where, where, where, where, where, What important place does she have to get to? Exactly, yeah, saving babies. Exactly. All right. We've got a lot to come on this show here. Lots of sort of Eagles news that ranges from a little bit interesting to very interesting and tangible stuff.

We want to talk about some of the, you know, whenever we're watching the final playoff games of the season, you're always having some Eagle's thoughts creep into your brain. So we want to get to those. And maybe if we have time at the end, we'll do a little turkeys to the offensive coordinator search. but let's start with the most pressing news here at the top EJ. And before we get to the latest on the offensive coordinator search, we do have some reporting on how the Eagles are going to replace Christian Parker. Yeah, so the Eagles are going to promote Joe Casper.

He is going to be the next defensive back slash defensive pass game coordinator coach for the Eagles here. We talked about him last week as a potential candidate to replace Christian Parker. He's been the safeties coach since Fikfangio's return in 2020. 22. He got his start in coaching, actually, with the Army Eagle staff as an assistant with Jonathan Gannon. I can tell you that he had interest from elsewhere in the league, including with Jonathan Gannon, to be a member of the Green Bay Packers staff. Interesting. That's a good nugget. Yeah, yeah. You know, I try to add to the site here. You got to watch the show because you're not always going to get the news on social media.

You've got to consume the show to know what's actually going on with the team. Yeah, I would like to agree. I tend to agree. You know, we drop lots of hints in the- people will report something that we talked about four months ago. Well, no, no, no, it was Cam Wolf. I love Cam. So no, no, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about other things. Yeah, no, but yeah, I agree. We drop hints on the show when we, when we have an idea of what's happening. So, uh, yeah, but I think it makes a lot of sense. You know, the players talk very highly of Joe Casper. Um, and you know, I think it was important

that the Eagles kept them because, you know, the Eagles are kind of getting rated on the defensive staff. You know, Clinton Hurt, you know, interviewed, or I think there was a request to interview with the Miami Dolphins as well. He played at the University of Miami, got his start in coaching in Miami. So it'll be interesting to see how that unfold. The only thing with that is he's not going to be a defensive play caller there because Jeff Hathley is in place. So, but even still, you know, retaining Joe Casper, I think was important given how much turnover they're going to have on that defensive staff. Here's what I'll say about Joe Casper. I mean, what a savvy move. he made to leave Gannon's staff and go to Vic Fangio for that season in Miami, right?

He could, that was not the year. I guess that was the year that Gannon goes to Arizona, right? So he could have followed Gannon to Arizona, potentially, could have stayed with the Eagles, but he takes that one year. Who do I want to learn from? Who do I want to get in on the ground and floor with? Yeah. Goes to Vic.

I mean, that's good. That's the kind of awareness and in-game management, like, you know, the awareness on Madden up to 95 that you want from your coach. Yeah, no, I mean, to- He's seeing the moves before they come. He knows what you're doing on first down to set up for third down. What's smart about it is we'll talk about some of these offensive coordinator candidates and how, like, you know, the, some guys, I feel like you have worked for imitations of certain schemes,

and he just was like, I'm going straight to the source. So, no, I mean, it makes sense. And now he has become a real, like, homegrown coach, in a sense for the Eagles, even though he did have that time with the, with the dolphins. I still want Joe Casper to bring back the turnover cake. I mean, that would just be such a layup for a feature for me if he ever brings that one back. He's also the guy who lets players tackles him during practice, you know, like we talked about last week. And we talked about how's a good arm, all of that stuff.

I mean, listen, I think Eagles are going to miss Christian Parker. I think Christian Parker is an outstanding coach. It's hard for us to know these things tangibly from the outside. but Joe Casper was already in a spot where this was the next step for him anyway. This was a succession plan that the Eagles presumably had in place. Yeah, they're probably going to lose one of those guys because of the fact that Joe Casper had interest elsewhere. And I think that the interesting thing now is, you know, do they continue to have a cornerbacks coach specifically? Does somebody else take over safeties?

How does that all? you know, will Joe Casper take over the cornerback room? I don't know about that. It's a good question. Interesting just to see how that. I mean, it probably gives them options, right? Like who can we answer the staff? What are their specialties?

And then we'll figure it out that way. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, like Christian Parker really specialized in corners. So it would make sense to make sure you have that covered. But yeah, no, it's a good question. Something to monitor. All right. To the offensive coordinator search now, EJ, we will get to the two new names who have been added to the mix after the break. But the one, two interesting pieces of information here.

Let's start with Declan Doyle, who officially pulled his name out, and I guess not officially, reportedly pulled his name out of the offensive coordinator search. What did you make of that from young Declan? It was surprising to me. You know, I think, well, I mean, I'll speak for myself, especially sitting in this, you know, mobile studio here. I have said plenty of things that I think that haven't aged well. But I sat in this very seat and argued with Anthony two weeks ago that the Eagles offensive coordinator opening was going to be an attractive one. And I think, you know, I've learned the hard way that that was not the case.

I mean, I understand it. Do you think we're overstating that, though? I think it's possible we're overstating that. I don't think we're overstating it. I think that the first wave of candidates has come and gone. I think somebody like Declan Doyle, you were trying to get a year ahead. And even he identifies his job as maybe not a favorable career move, you know, compared to. staying with the Bears for another year. Now, like, he works for Ben Johnson. Maybe Ben Johnson and him,

maybe he understands because he has that vantage point, uh, that it's not always, you know, what I guess what's the, uh, I don't know what the expression I'm looking for is, but maybe picking the right opportunity is better than rushing into one. Um, you know, with, with, you think of Ben Johnson turning down head coaching opportunities, um, you know, make sure that he picks the right one. But still, I feel like you bring in someone like Declan Doyle, because you feel pretty good about, again, being a year early on him, the fact that he didn't, you know, that he pulled his name. I'm not saying the Eagles were going to offer him. I think there was like, you know, some encouraging signs that they were, they felt good about him as a candidate. But the fact that he

pulled his name out was surprising to me. Yeah, I think, I don't think the fact that the, search has continued this far means that, you know, the Eagles are striking out or that the job is, is not attractive. I think it is a case-by-case basis. And I think it's fair to say the Eagles interviewed a bunch of people in the first wave, and maybe they were not impressed with those candidates. I think we can give them some grace on that front as well.

And I also think that, you know, generally speaking, when someone pulls their name out, it's more likely than not that they know that they weren't going to get the job anyway. Yeah, I think in most cases I agree. But I actually, yeah. And I actually don't know that that's the case this time because I think we both heard that there was some actual real interest from the

Eagles building in Declan Doyle. That doesn't mean that they were going to necessarily offer him the job. But it could also be the kind of thing where Declan Doyle comes in for an interview. You know, it's hot and heavy. Both sides are into each other and the Eagles don't, you know, make the plunge. And so that gives Declan Doyle some time to think, okay, well, maybe they're not quite as into me as I thought. I'll rethink this. It actually would probably be the best thing for me to have another year with Ben Johnson, you know, really go to play calling school with him. I think that's possible. I think, and that leads me to, at this point, it would be disappointing, I think, if the Eagles

hire someone who we've known that they've talked to for like a week already. Yeah. Whereas, it's like, why were you exploring other options? Then it will feel like they are settling. But if it's, okay, we're talking to Davis Webb tomorrow and he's high. hired on Wednesday. That makes more sense, right? Can I give you a, can I give you a love is blind analogy? Sure. It's like if one person is ready to, you know, commit, ready to stop talking to other people in the pods. And then the other person is still talking to two or three people,

you kind of, you close the door right there. You know, you don't want to be waiting around. So I, I completely agree. I'm not sure. I'm not your plan. I'm not your plan B. Exactly. I'm not the fallback. Yeah. No way. You want me? You, you, you want all of this. You come get it right now. Yeah, because if you are like Mike Kafka or, you know, I mean, Josh Grizzard even, yeah. If it's like, oh, it's obvious that they're just waiting to see if Nate Sheelhaus wants this job, then yeah, no, there is that element.

I think, but I think at the same time, so I agree with you most of the time. Like Bobby Sloke pulling his name out, Charlie Weiss Jr. pulling his name out reportedly. Those aren't like, oh man, the Eagles can't get anybody to take this job. I would suspect that they were not, neither of those guys were there, first choice. I feel like Declan Doyle is the exception. I think we're on the same page. I think that, you know, again, I feel like there's some encouragement there. I think we would have heard if they had actually offered him the job. So I don't know that he was their top choice, but I think it's fair to say there was genuine interest. Yeah. From there, I do think,

well, we'll get into some of the guys who interviewed, but yeah, I agree with you. I think that I don't think we said it last week. We compared it to the Nick Siriani search where I think they'll be comfortable, like, that it has taken this long. You know, I think it's, what, 14 days, you know, since Kevin Petulah was fired. So it's a long search. You know, Kellynne Moore took 12 days and that was a long search. So, no, it's definitely been a prolonged search. I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing other than they clearly have missed out on

some of the top candidates. That's right. And as, as Dana has told us on Friday, it is reasonable. if you are happy with the Eagle's success, part of it is because of the way that they are run organizationally, which also makes it a little bit more difficult to hire someone for this job. You can take that with everything else that comes with it.

Yeah, I think that it's important not to get too alarmist that they're having a harder time than maybe some expected job. I think they're running a very good process as far as I'm concerned. If you identified Mike McDaniel as your top choice and you weren't able to land him. And then you did your diligence on the next group and thought, eh. And then, okay, let's cast as wide a net as possible. I think that is, I think that is absolutely good process. You should talk to as many people as possible. Maybe you get to steal some ideas from what they're saying. We'll see how it lands. Yeah. I can understand that there's some

frustration and, you know, maybe we're not as, we're not as pretty as we thought we were. But it's okay, for now. But we will, for now, it is okay. We'll see what happens. Yeah, agree. All right, let's take a quick break. Come back on the other side. We will talk the two new names in this dance, Frank Smith and Gerrata Johnson right after these messages. Well, it used to never be ordinary at Bet365

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Legal. Select plans only. Restrictions apply. Back on the P.H.O.I. Eagles show. Bonie J. Back in home. Is this sad that I'm just sitting here like giggling at your ad reads? You are, Lindsay put it perfectly. You were weirdly good at those ad reads, man. It's good to have one skill.

You've got multiple skills, several skills. Super chat. off here. Nikki loves music says, are Nick's strengths as a head coach, whatever they are, really worth going through this OC carousel every year? Yeah, I think that's what we were talking about just before the break. You know, they've been successful. I understand from an outside perspective, it can be nebulous to figure out exactly what like Nick's role is on a day-to-day basis. But we talked all season about, you know, the like the fact that Nick is a little bit under rated from an X's an O standpoint. Now, that's not to say that he's like your play caller or he's going to be the lead offensive mind in the room. But I do think, you know, probably gets understated like the role that he plays. And this season was not a great example for it. But I do think that Nick generally is a good like locker room presence, a good players coach who gets guys, you know, willing to play for him and fundamentally sound in that, like in the way that they play. I think,

he does have some redeeming qualities. I just, it's a tough, it's a tough time to be like singing Nick Siriani's praises the way that the season went. I think it's fair to say. I think if you think Nick is a good coach, then it's worth it. Yeah. Yeah. If you believe that he's a big reason why they've been successful, then you take with that, maybe they're having a little bit of difficulty filling this job.

And I think, as we said, it has probably more to do with the organization than Nick in particular. But yeah, if you think he's good, it's worth it. Yep, I completely. All right. Which brings us to the two new entrants in offensive coordinator Royal Rumble. We'll start with Frank Smith, Frank Smith, who has been the Dolphins offensive coordinator alongside Mike McDaniel for the last four seasons, has an interesting background in that he is not someone who has been like, you know, someone's consuliary throughout their career. You know, he has worked with a bunch of different guys, worked with John Grudy. and worked with Brandon Staley for a year in San Diego,

Adam Gase in the beginning of his career. So there's an interesting cross-section. You see their witness protection. I think we do have to be worried that, you know, Frank Smith. I mean, my name's E.J. Smith. I don't know. E.J. way better than, yeah. I mean, there's some personality there.

I think I just, let's put it on the radar that, like, there could be one day where all of a sudden your offensive coordinator has disappeared. Lindsay, could you flash that up one more time? Not to derail us here, but he looks like Jeff Saturday had a baby with somebody. I can't figure out who. That's interesting. He's like a more like Hollywood Jeff Saturday. He looks like country singer, country singer Jeff Saturday.

Yeah, exactly. That's what to say. He played Jeff Saturday in a movie, like a country music movie. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I mean on that. Yeah. The thing that stands out to me about Frank Smith is that he's got in a barman. That's a good interesting one.

There's a little bit of Connor Barwin in there. Oh, Connor Barwin has a baby with Jeff Saturday. I like that. I don't know. He's got more of like a squared off jaw than either of those guys, though. Like, Connor Barwin's got more of like... I think, yeah, but he's got the middle of Connor's face, it feels like. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Yep, I like it. The thing that's said that to me is that he's got a background in the offensive line room, and as he was an offensive lineman and obviously with tight ends, I would... I think in the interview process, the big question you'd have is, like, what kind of passing game do you envision? Because it wouldn't be like you brings,

in an idea of world, you're not going to bring someone in to overhaul the way that they operate from the offensive line. You know, you have Jeff Sattlin in place. I think it's probably more important that you feel great about the past concepts that the new voice is bringing in,

but he's still interesting because of what you said. He's worked with a lot of good coaches there. A few things are interesting here from my perspective. One is, this is now, they have talked to Mike McDaniel, Darryl Bevel, and Frank Smith, all members of that Dolphins coaching staff last season. And so to the degree that they are not searching for a specific scheme for this offense, it feels like they are at least very interested in this scheme. So I was actually honestly thinking maybe the Eagles are trying to get a little dirty here and clandestinely work

back channels to try to poach McDaniel back. until right before the show, it was announced that he has agreed to terms with his charges deal. But when that was unsettled, I was thinking, oh, this Frank Smith thing is kind of like, oh, this, maybe what if we are, you know, promising really good roles to his lie lieutenants, and this is our way to sneak in and steal McDaniel away, so much on that front. But I do think it's interesting here. It's important to remember Frank Smith is not like Gerard Johnson. He doesn't have a job right now.

And so Frank Smith could. could also be part of the larger picture of how this revamped coaching staff looks like even if he doesn't get the offensive coordinator job. I don't know if that's ideal or that's exactly what's going on. You're going to scangerello him in this scenario, aren't you? Is it going to be like... Or you pair him with someone else who he has worked with or something like. But I don't know.

Yeah, but say like now I could see like a Jim Bob Cooter is the offensive coordinator and then Frank Smith is a senior offensive assistant. I can see that. I mean, I'm not saying, listen, I'm not advocating. for it, but I think it's a scenario. Now that McDaniel is officially with the Chargers, do you think, does it concern you the notion that if you pluck from McDaniel's tree, you're kind of getting like the disciple and not the author? Is that, does that feel sort of like the cautionary tale of Sean Desai? Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to confirm with you. By the way,

you said that we should just say, did you mean Bobby Sloick or did they also talk to Darrell Bevel? Oh, I meant Bobby Sloic. Okay, just wanted to make sure. Yes, yes. But Darrell Beville was on that staff. Yes, he was. That's why I was like, did I miss something? But Bobby Slovak is a re-bett. Bobby Slovak, yes. So three guys there.

And we should say, Frank Smith didn't call plays. Right. He was an OC, but Mike McDaniel was the one calling place. So I don't know. We're talking to. That's fine. I'm having to talk to everybody. Marketplace of ideas.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It wouldn't, I wouldn't, I think it's probably too reductive to say, If they hired somebody off of McDaniel's staff, it would be like when they hired Chondesai. But that is within the realm of possibilities that that is what would end up how it would end up being viewed, which is not great. So. So, yeah, I think keep an eye on where he lands, because this might be a, this might be someone who ends up on the staff anyway.

And let's talk Gerard Johnson, who was the Texans quarterback's coach, has been for the past few seasons. worked with Nick Siriani for a year in Indianapolis, which we don't necessarily love. If you're just looking for, that's not against Siriani. But, you know, it's just saying if one of your selling points has worked with Siriani, that's, you know, that's not great. And I think it's also fair to say, C.J. Stroud has not necessarily gotten better every year over the past couple years. This is a totally different job.

That's not saying Gerard Johnson is not worth talking to. But I think in terms of evaluating that, that's a fair point. we should also mention that Gerard Johnson interviewed for this same job with the Eagles back in 2024, EJ. Yeah, can I, I think I'm going to get killed in the chat for this, but I have an opinion about this. Listen, I think Gerard Johnson seems like an impressive coach. You know, obviously he's been well thought of in league circles for a while. Yes. And I also want to make it clear that like this has nothing to do with his name or how he looks.

you know just want to put that out there qualify this very thoroughly but like at what point in this search are we just going to say should the eagles talk to brian johnson about anything like should they oh interesting considering bringing brian johnson back at this point because when i remember the first time i wrote about gerard johnson i'm like he's kind of like brian johnson but with the texans you know like ex-quarterback you know well thought of in league circles like up and coming coach that has some touch points with the Eagles. And I'm, and like, I also think that, um, like, I love this take. I love this take. Brian Johnson's time with the Eagles, like is now, like, revisionist history or not revisionist's history in hindsight. Way better. Yeah. Yes. In hindsight, it is a lot more

favorable for Brian Johnson than we maybe would have expected. Their past game has not been great since Brian Johnson left. So I'm not saying that that's what they actually should do. But again, the longer that the search, the longer that the search continues, I do wonder, like, I mean, Brian Johnson was a good coach here. If you want someone who can get through to Jalen.

I mean, you cannot. I know, I know that they don't really care about people's feelings. Interpersonally. But you cannot interview Brian Johnson and not give him the job. I,

I mean, no, they certainly could interview him and not give him the job. I'm not saying that like he's, I bet he's got a bunch of, yeah, I bet. I bet there are a bunch of things that he wishes that he had done differently. And as you said, that offense was, was not bad. You know, if I can put on like the, sometimes I like to play like PR coach on this show. Like, you know, Nick, go up there and talk about you learn the wrong lessons from 2023, you know, the turnover

avoidance. You know, that was a big thing and that's a big reason why, you know, you guys moved on from Brian Johnson. But, you know, now it's time to implement. some of the things, get Jalen back to playing the way he was when Brian Johnson was his quarterback's coach. I think there's a way you could spin it. So I'm not saying he's actually like a legitimate candidate or that he should be. But again, like Gerard Johnson to me, it would have to be like he crushes the interview. You know, like based off of track record alone, I just, there's not a whole lot there. He doesn't have play calling experience and C.J. Strata has regressed. Brian Johnson, the Eagles love bringing back guys.

both coaching wise and roster wise. You know why they're not going to do that? The biggest reason they're not going to do it? Too much power for Jalen. Yeah, that's fair. I agree. That is a very, I mean, yeah, that is probably why they would. There's a few reasons why they wouldn't.

But yeah, it would definitely be probably leaning too far into the, it's going to look the way Jalen Hertz wants it to look. Interesting. So what do you think? Is it going to be one of these guys? Like, is it going to be someone who hasn't even been reported yet? How do you feel about this whole thing? The big one for me is going to be if Nate Shieldhouse gets connected to this job in the next few days.

Because I'm trying to keep, like, I'm trying to keep in mind that there can still be a shoot-a-drop that is like, man, this completely changes the way that we view the search. If it's Nate Shieldhouse, if it, I mean, I don't think it will be Davis Webb based up the fact that he's already got head coaching buzz. but if it were Davis Webb, if it were either of those two guys. No, Shealhouse is the one for me. But he's got head coaching buzz too with the Brown. Oh, you're right. Yeah, you're right.

Okay. I feel like Davis Webb is a little bit more, but you're right. I think if it's one of those two guys, then all of a sudden it's like, okay, they were waiting for their candidate. They were, you know, taking advantage of hearing from different voices

and trying to, you know, get as many different types of candidates in for the marketplace of ideas, right? I think you could probably, you feel pretty good about the search if it ends with either of those two guys. Obviously, Joe Brady is still out there too. So there are a few people that, like, could totally change the way that I view the search.

If you had asked me, I mean, I'll save it for the turkeys, but I don't know. Of the guys that they have, like, tangibly been linked to, I'm probably still most bullish on Grizzard. And that's not based off of a ton. It's based off of, like... And that, too, would be, like, if they interviewed him like a week and a half ago. Sure. So that would be, to your point, he's been the love is blind.

waiting there for his partner to agree to what are they there's another one who could just be on the staff and not the not the not the OC that's possible to yeah yeah yeah I mean coordinator I think like how would you feel I mean I already know you're going to answer but if they hired one of the Kafka matanagie jemob cooters like of the world and then they brought in a senior offensive assistant that is a a grizzard or a Frank Smith. Well, that leads us to what I think what they should do. Is at this point, they've talked to enough guys.

Enough of them are without a job. I think they need to bring this thing to its logical conclusion with Jalen Hertz. And go through the season, 17 games, 17 offensive coordinator. Speaking of, reality TV. You think Jalen can overcome having a new OC every year?

Let's see him do it every single week. Like Kafka, week one, Nat Nagy, week two. Josh Grizzard, week three. And then what's beautiful about that is if that team goes to the playoffs, you have no idea which one's going to show up for, like, I mean, think about the tendency breakers. Oh my gosh. Think about the hair being pulled out every single week by opposing defensive staffs not knowing what to expect. This could be anything. I mean, it'd be great for content.

It'd be interesting for me and my job, which, who's going to walk up to that podium every week? Yeah. If they're going to have 17, then I feel like Fran has to get a stab out of one week. That's true. Fran and Danes. I think, I think there could be something to, we couldn't find our guy. So instead we are putting together the version of Vic Fangio's defensive staff, the first year he was here, without the Fangio. Right. So it's like, okay, we've got Matt Nagy is our play caller. Josh Grizzard is the passing game coordinator and Frank Smith is here and he's, I don't know, tight ends coach or something like that.

There's one other guy where there's one other guy and it's probably too many cooks in the kitchen. But you're just, you're bringing, you're bringing more ideas, more different levels. of competency from different places and you're hoping that that leads to something. Yeah. I think that's a possibility. I think that's an interesting scenario. I don't feel amazing about it. You know, I think that the too many cooks in the kitchen thing would be the concern.

Do you see Lindsay's text, by the way? She says that Kevin Petulow will come back for the bye week. He should get a week. I mean, if they have 17 of them, then sure. Who would be the most ridiculous person that you'd nominate to be one of the 17 offensive? Marty Morningwick. Unae Emery. He'd figure it out.

I got faith in Uni. I think this is great. I think this is the way that they should go. I mean, listen, it's not going to be that different anyway. Just have somebody a different call plays. It'll mess up defenses. Nick loves leading into these little, you know, imagined advantages of not giving too much away. Imagine not giving too much away by not knowing.

Who the playcaller is every single week? Yeah. Now, all right, to end the exercise here. Pat Schumer, Mike Martz gets a shot, you know? Who, this is mostly like clip farming for social media here. Who is the person that has an interview for the job that you would put the most turkeys on getting the job? Like, and don't say like Cliff Kingsbury or like Joe Brady.

Let's say like somebody who we haven't really discussed maybe since the out onset of, since Kevin Petit's. got fired. Pick somebody out of left field so that if you get it right, we can put it out and say like, oh, you know, Bo knew. He was, he was, frame this again, frame it one more time. A play, an offensive coordinator candidate that is up and linked to the job that we haven't discussed, completely out of left field. And we haven't discussed. I mean, maybe not, we haven't discussed since we did the list of 25. Completely out of left field candidate that you think has the highest chance of getting the job. I mean, I was going to say Jake Pease, but we've already talked about

Jake Peets. You can take Jake Pete. You want. let's go uh let's go adam gase oh no you went uninspired um well what's inspired

give me lincoln riley maybe it's uh they touch base with them maybe he was too expensive he's paid like eight million dollars a year no listen here let me spin the yarn here so you know the game is too expensive uh we'll look elsewhere they go through the you know

a couple waves of offensive coordinator candidates here they miss out on some guys and finance like you know what Lincoln what's it going to take to get you to reunite with Jaylen in the associate position I could see it again it's got to be out of left field I'm not saying I think it's likely but I think Lincoln Riley could could sneak in here I see Juan Castillo in the chat that is good that would be funny all right good stuff it's been it's been a lot of fun yeah I enjoy following the search so far we've got more to talk about coming up next on the p.I eagles podcast stay with us, find out what EJ and I, what popped up into our little brains while watching the games this

weekend. Let's talk about Monarch. You will feel organized and confident in your finances with Monarch, an all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or phone. Whether you're switching jobs like me with past retirement accounts to monitor or just trying to simply check your portfolio, Monarch has been perfect. to keep an eye on all my finances in one place, and it can be for you too. It can be so time-consuming checking a handful of different apps, and Monarch is the perfect solution. It's built for people with busy lives. If you've put off organizing your finances, Monarch is for you.

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And that is where our friends at Wawa come in. Because at Wawa, from 5 to 11, you can get any sizzling plus any size coffee, hot or iced, and a hash brown for just $5. Now, I recommend the, I didn't have the bacon, egg and cheese sizzling the other day. Ooh! I love a breakfast sandwich. And I love a deal. That's where Wawa is saving my mornings, because I know the mornings are a scramble for everybody out there.

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Wawa Swag on today. Wawa tie-dye. Wai, looking good. Ooh, let me tell the chat, the story of your moral compass. Actually, me using it to my advantage for once. You know, I get constantly criticized for your moral, because of your moral compass and the moral high ground.

I'm usually in your corner. Okay. All right. I won't argue against that. It's fine. Yeah. So yesterday, you know, obviously we got the crazy blizzard. And I was prepared as most adults would be.

Even though I'm, you know, a bachelor for the last four or five days with my wife out of town, I had, like, pasta and some good, like, you know, bologna sauce that I could have made. I had some gold pans if I was feeling really lazy, you know, the things from Wegman's that you could just put in the oven, like they're pre-made. So I was well prepared for the Blizzard. This is a pre-made bolognese or you had the ingredients to make your own? It was a pre-made. I usually do make my own. But I was like, again, something about being here on my own.

You're cooking for one. I was feeling lazy. Yeah, I just didn't feel like making anything elaborate. So, but I was like, this is my last night of like Bacheloredum before my wife gets back. And the games are on, you know, like they're, I don't know about you, but like, whenever the games are on, like, whenever there's good games on, there's always like three or four things I want to eat while I watch a football game. And you don't, and you don't usually get a football someday. Right. Exactly. So I'm like, I just would love some chicken wings, like to eat some wings and watch the game. So I text you because I'm like, on one hand, oh, the last thing I need to point out is I got new tires on my car. And they're like supposed to be good in the snow. So I want to test, I don't want to test them out. Spend all this money on. new tires. Yeah, exactly. So all of these things are making me think or making me feel like, I got to go get something.

But you know, I don't, I want to be courteous to the people out there who have to go to work. I don't want to like support a corporation that makes their employees show up and, you know, have to drive through terrible conditions just to get to work. You know, if I go to a certain, like wherever it may be, if I go to some place that, you know, it's forcing those people, I don't want to do that. So I text you and I say, how do I weigh this? You know, do I get out on the roads? or do I stay in and be a responsible adult and lean into the fact that I already have the groceries?

And do you want to tell them what you said or you want me to recount it? You can say it. Okay. So you tell me, find a local business that you love that is going to be open and is going to get hit hard by the fact that there's a storm. And I was like, make it worth their while to be open. This is perfect. Yeah, this is perfect. So I go to my- Tip well, of course. I don't want to give out free advertising, but I go to my favorite local pizza place in Westchester.

And, you know, they, I show up and they are like, packed. They're so busy because, like, Westchester's walkable. So people are walking to the place. And they tell me all of our, all of our employees can walk here. So nobody had to drive in the snow. You know, like they said, like, you know, they're really grateful to have business that day. I got to test out the tires. Tires were great.

Get some really good chicken wings. Enjoy the wings during the game. So really just a great evening brought to you by the Bow Wolf Moral Compass. You're welcome. No, it worked out well. So no, I appreciated it. I've got that worked out well for you. Yeah, that was the right move.

Yeah. Yeah. Win, win, win. Everybody was happy that I went and got those ways. You got to make it worth their while. And now I can cook all this stuff tonight now that Julia's back. So it works out well. Beautiful.

Yep. All right. Let's get to What's Brewing presented by our friends at Wawa? We just talked about them. And remember that there's that deal. can't pass up $5.11 a.m. Any Sizzley, any coffee, hot or iced, any size, and a hash crown for just $5, E.J. Tell me what was your big Eagles thought watching the games yesterday?

So I had two. The first one was about exactly this. I know you can flash that up, Lindsay. It was about the way that the Seahawks used Jackson Smith in Jigba. I mean, my goodness. Look at this Routary, everybody. You got to tune over to YouTube. and look at the way, the variety of routes.

Lined up all over the place. They're putting him in the backfield. And they just did such a great job leveraging the gravity that he has. And like I look at that Seahawks offense. And there's no reason why one of A.J. Brown or Devante Smith can't have that type of role with the Eagles. They have a similar gravity. So the funny thing I wanted to tell you about, my dad calls me. Because he's, you know, he snowed in too.

and he's all excited. He's watching the games. He called me like 12 times in like two hours. And he called me one time. Why don't you just come over and watch the game? I guess. Yeah, he was snowed in. And he has like this just nasty hill.

Like he lives on a really high incline. I like, we have all suffered. We have all suffered injuries. Shoveling that hill. Oh, man. Yeah. So he had to stay in. But he's calling me.

And he's like, they just ran China and they did it. Not like, it's a route concept. Everybody. I understand. Yeah, they ran China, but they made it look like they didn't. They weren't going to run it. And he's like going, he goes way in detail about this. And I'm just listening to him.

He's so excited. And I'm like, this is a man that watched the Eagles offense all season. And now he's watching, you know, this like elaborate, like complex, you know, well thought out system that's leveraging their best players in a way that we just didn't see with the Eagles. So that was my first takeaway. As we talk about so many of. the offensive coordinator candidates here. Give me somebody who is going to use Devante Smith like that. Because again, I think that obviously, you know, we talk about Pooka and Akua, we talk about

Jackson Smith and Jigba. These guys are stylistically maybe a little different than Devante, but honestly, I think Devante is qualified for that role. So I think, you know, if you're Nick Siriani watching the championship weekend, like the way the Seahawks use their star receiver, that should be at the top of your notebook. It is, I am worried that this will be too much Clint Kubiak praise, but it is,

it is jarring when you watch the Seahawks offense to know that Jackson-Smithing Jigba is obviously the number one target of opposing defensive coordinators. That's the guy they have to worry about how often they are still able to get him wide open. Yeah, and we were talking about on the morning show because VG was asking about exactly that,

like how the defense is not key in on him, and, you know, we were explaining, like, with some of these high-low concepts, like, if they stick with JSN, then you will have easy completions underneath a lot of the time or over the top if he's running the underneath route. So really, they just, they use him. And it doesn't seem like it has to be that hard. Now, I think they do that, again, to my dad's point, the Seahawks do a good job of dressing up what they're doing and making it harder to anticipate pre-snap. But at the end of the day, like, these are route concepts that, you know, high schools run. which is why my dad knew what it was. And it's just a matter of like putting players in conflict and using your best players as leverage for that. So I think it's it is telling because of how many people from this, you know, tree, this greater tree the Eagles have interviewed. I think this is something they need to do a better job with. So that was the one thing that stood out to me.

The other one is a little more simple. Well, I guess I had two, but I'll save one. I don't want to, you know, monopolize the whole segment here. I think that this really just, we've talked so much about the missed opportunity for the Eagles in this season. And not only watching the playoffs unfold and thinking about what like an Eagles, a functional Eagles offense could have looked like in these types of games, it's just like seven of the last 10 Super Bowls have been won by Tom Brady, Pat Mahomes, and Payne Manning. And this is going to be a year where Drake May or Sam Darnold is a Super Bowl champion.

maybe we talk about Drake May differently in a few years. Maybe he is a part of the top three. He's in a terrible playoffs. Right. But you know what I mean? Like there is obviously what I'm getting at is usually to win a Super Bowl, you need to have one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL. Like that is what history would tell us.

And then the other years are kind of the opportunities for the really strong rosters with good quarterbacks to win championships. And this felt like a year where the Eagles could have fit that bill. Now listen, if the Eagles win two Super Bowls, Jalen Hurts is probably in that. conversation is, man, top three quarterback. But still, it just felt like a missed opportunity because the next five years, you probably have three or four of them that go to one of Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, and I mean, you throw in whoever the third one is, you want Lamar or Joe Burrow.

I don't agree with this. I don't agree with this, take. Okay. All right. The missed opportunity stuff, in some alternate universe where this was a different team making the use of the roster they have. That's what I'm saying. I think they had the talent to win these games. That's what it is. It's not that they should have been in this situation. I don't agree at all. Yeah, they played exactly the way they played all season.

This is not a team that deserved to go any further than they did. I'm not saying that this team, the way that they played should be. Like a missed opportunity from the coaching staff, essentially. Yes, it was a missed opportunity because from a talent perspective, they were good, they were good enough to be here. From the way that they played all season, no, I completely agree. I think that they made it as far as they deserve to make it. I'm talking about more about the fact that this was a year where it was wide open

and the Eagles were talented enough to make that run. I think that Seahawks team is pretty good. That's my... But your larger point is right. They had a roster good enough to have made a run to the Super Bowl. Obviously, they won the Super Bowl here before. All right, let's close What's Brewing with Wawa. I will give you my takeaway after these final words from our sponsors.

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Crookedtea.com to find a store near you. I know this is not the crooked tea we're talking about. That's a nice drawing. not the hard tea you want. Crooked tea! Make it your drink of choice. All right, back on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast, but Wolf E.J. Smith, I think we should probably table

turkeys to the O.C. search for tomorrow, assuming the Eagles have not yet hired someone by then, E.J. I'm going to tell you my big takeaway from watching the game yesterday, and it was, boy, did I love watching the Seahawks final offensive possession. And it was everything we complain about, about this Eagles offense to a T. They've got the ball up four with five minutes left. And you and I both know that if the Eagles had the ball in that situation,

they would be trying to run the ball to close the game. Certainly they would be running the ball on first and second down and then forcing themselves into a must-have-it third-down play. we can look at every situation they were in similarly that's of course what they would do and Clint Kuback deserves obviously a lot of credit here for the plays that he was designing but to me this is more of a Mike McDonald thing yeah giving him the leeway to do what is right here I mean you look at that drive they go run on first down play action on second down to Kenneth Walker run on first down play action on second down to Kenneth Walker run on first down play action on

second down to Rashid-Shaheed, incomplete, and then third down, they get that completion to cup, which is the controversial one, but they get the first down. Yeah. Run on first down again, pass on second down. Get it. Run on first down, pass on second down again,

and then run on first down, and then that's the end of the game. Yep. Like, boy, is that such important balls and situational awareness of what really matters, because what is, what is, important there is not, all right, let's hold on tight and, you know, trust our defense. What is important is go win the game by not giving the ball back to Matthew Stafford.

That's obviously what you need to do. And I thought they did, like it was, it was so refreshing to see them not turtle in that situation and truly trust this is how we need to go get to the Super Bowl. And you know, I'm going to try not to get too worked up here. But if you can do that with Sam Darnold as your quarterback. Not to be smart Sam Darnold, but the guy was third in interceptions thrown this year and has a long history of playoff struggles and mistakes in key situations. If you can do that with Sam Darlane as your quarterback, then I don't want to hear that you can't do that with Jalen Hertz as your quarterback. And, you know, I have been very balanced, or even sometimes been critical of Jalen Hertz. But like, this is like what we're talking about. Trust your quarterback in these

scenarios. Trust your players in the key scenarios of the game. So I completely agree with you. It's like, to have a coaching staff, have that belief in their team, have that belief in a quarterback who, again, hasn't, that doesn't have the track record of Jalen Hertz in big moments like that. It's like, you're so right. That should be at the top of Dick Sieriani's list of things that he took away from that game.

That's exactly right. That's who you, that's who your quarterback is, who has a history of blunders in those situations. And they knew that in order to win, they've got to trust him. Yeah. And it was,

It was beautiful. It was really, really nice to watch. Players, like, you do that, and your players will do anything for you. You know, like, that is, like, how you have a tight-knit group, because it's like, I put the game in your hands. No, I mean, that's, it's incredible. I pulled this stat that's the only thing I had for you is that the Seahawks will be the fourth team in the last decade to make it to the Super Bowl with a negative turnover margin.

Wow. Because that is something that Nick Siriani would harp on. Yeah. And especially putting the ball in Darnold's hands at the end of the game like that, I just, yeah, it's just trust your players in key moments. If you lose that way, then so be it. You know, like you built it around those guys.

You don't, we don't want guys to throw interceptions. Yeah. But if they are part of a larger picture of, first of all, it means that you are an offense that's taking risks, which is going to give you a higher upside. Yeah. And in theory, this may not always be in practice, but in theory, if you go through all of those situations

and you know that the mistakes you've made, then it better prepares you for when you do have to throw the ball, you know, there are mistakes that you've already made before. Right. You know what I mean? And you have been practiced in going for it and trying to make tight window throws and knowing what throws you actually can't make. Whereas opposed to if you just play conservative

and throw the balls on the outside and checkdowns and that's all we're going to do, when it comes to time that you can't do that anymore, you haven't done it. Yeah. this is like a very um just like therapeutic conversation i'm sure for a lot of eagles fans it's like yes thank you for saying that exactly that um i'm trying to pull up the uh the 49er or sorry the the uh the seahawks explosive play rate but i'm failing so um but i imagine that they have probably been one of the more explosive offenses in the NFL they yep they have they've been the most explosive offense in the NFL really uh yep 20 plus yard place so yeah

Yep, 6.6%. They're tied with the 49ers, but number one. Did you have one other takeaway, or was that that was the... That was my other one was that this is an offense that is willing to take shots down the field, be aggressive even if it means that they can turn the ball over, which flies in the face of... And I'm not saying that the Eagles are misguided. Their record is their record when they win the turnover margin. But I do think they've gotten too far on one side of the spectrum, and the Seahawks are on the other side of that.

Yeah, it's so silly because they're a loaded team. So like Yeah There's of course There's a world where they've turned the ball over a bunch more and still won those games Yep Right It's like what's their record when

You know, Brett Toeth is inactive You could, you know Of course it's not the same thing It's not the same thing But they've been a really good team for the past three years They're going to have a good record any way you slice it Yeah no it's very fair I mean I think

I just think the further we get removed from it the more It's like did they learn the wrong lesson from 2023. It's like, could you just figure out how to max protect, figure out like three hot routes and not need to prioritize avoiding turnovers this passionately. Yeah.

I think we have another super chat in here from Robert Myers, who says EJ's dad for O.C. Ask him what week he wants. Yeah, he could take one week, I think. You know, he's not busy, but he acts like he's busy, so he probably wouldn't want the whole season.

My dad was a defensive. coach, though. He was a defensive backs coach for the record. Well, he was a head coach, but he specialized in secondary. Robert Myers also says, Brian Johnson, to your suggestion earlier, E.J., does not fix the game-feel play-calling or adjustment issue. That offense was functional, but he ran on third and long every single time. I would agree with that. Although, could you argue? Listen, I don't want to be the- I think the third-down runs are probably more of a Nick thing, but yes. Yes, I would argue that that might be a philosophical thing that has existed, has remained even with Brian Johnson leaving. I think the Eagles should be aspiring for hire for offense coordinator.

We'll tell you more about it in Lindsay Time. How did you know it was Lindsay Time without the thing? I just guessed. I don't know if you were right. I think I might have jumped at a couple seconds to early based on the normal timing, but, you know, this time, I think better to get early than not at all. Oh, yeah. Lindsay says that was wrong.

I mean, I think it was a smooth transition. Lindsay, I know that you can't talk, but if you want to text us, let us know who's on top in today's. Oh, yeah, we need the power rankings. I don't know if I feel good about it today. I don't think I did anything. I don't feel great about it either. This could be a, you know, no winners kind of day. Every time for second place.

EJ's dad, number one. Yeah, there was. how do you Jay's dad talk on the show today? I spent a lot of time around the guy. Do you have a place in your hometown that just like teleports you back to when you were a kid? I don't go back to the same place much anymore. But the place that, I mean, the answer is yes. One of them, like the places that I would, I've been back so often that it wouldn't even necessarily do that.

except for this is less about a teleports me back and more about like a just a threat of connection to those days, which is what I used to do. Pre-pandemic was I would drive back to New York two hours for every haircut. Really? Okay. I respect that. Yeah. With my guy Cosmo, real long-time sickos know.

Yeah. Cosmo straight off the boat from Reggio Calabria. Yeah, I would, and I would go too long between haircuts because he was the only one I would trust. No, that's, that is respectable, like, commitment to the barber by you. I haven't been that committed to a barber in a while, and I kind of miss it. Like, I go a couple years and then I feel like I switch. So, no, it's respectable. I have a, what is the one for you?

There's a hokey shop. Well, it's a dep shop. I saw you post this year. Your happy place. Oh, my God. Eve's place. Yeah, it's called Eve's Z. Zep's in Narsetown. And I learned how to ride my bike in the parking lot next to this place.

Nice. You know, we would go, there used to be a Rita's there. We would go there after baseball games. And like, even just the drive to get there, it's like memory lane for me. And yeah, like, it's, they have a steak. It's basically a cheese steak, but it's got raw onions on it. And it's like, this thing is like 50% raw onions. And like, if I hadn't eaten it when I was a kid, I would like it, I would like it, but I'd be like, what's with all these onions? You wouldn't go back for it. Yeah. Yeah, but like, I go in there. And like you always run into somebody that either me or my dad knows and we're talking about, you know, Nars Town football. And it's just like it makes, it's like my soul, like it just feels like enriched whenever I'm there.

I think the pizza place is probably the place that if I walked into is the one that would take me back to like even younger days. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, it's special. It's good to be back there every once in a while. Super Chat. In Under the Wire from Nikki Love's Music. What do you guys, what you guys are talking about right now. And I think this is about that Seahawks drive is why I don't understand why we keep. Nick around. Maybe I'm just a hater. I think you have to look at the complete picture. I don't know, E.J. sounds like he's breeding hatred.

He's not a hater. I understand. I understand what he's saying. I think that is a reasonable perspective to have. But it's, I think that when they get it right, they have shown what the ceiling is. So.

Okay. E.J., you've got to get prepped. You got to get that. Lindsay says she has a graphic for ranking. Oh. Whoa. Oh, Mr. Lindsay number one. He's taking because he's taking care of the kids while.

He said because he shoveled everything. I didn't touch a shovel. You know. Nice. Mrs. Smith didn't didn't touch a shovel either. She has, she's been in sunny Florida. I'm happy for Mr. Lindsay. This is a good, I mean, listen, this, the only bad news about this is it's going to put

that teacher for the year award to shame. This is, I mean, that thing means nothing now. Now, how many people is Lindsay allowed to bring into these power rankings just to ensure that I don't get the number one spot? You know, I need to ask this question. Because now I've been number two twice, and I'm just, you know, I'm a little curious. What's it going to take? I think this is, I think this search is important for you. We got to, I think we got to keep hold this carrot out in front to make sure you're treating her as best as you can't.

Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I treat, that's not, that's not a concern with me. I treat everyone well. And speaking of, yeah, I probably do need to leave because I got. to pick my wife up from the airport. Sounds good. We will be with you tomorrow at 2 o'clock. Not sure yet whether it will be in studio or back home,

but either way, we'll be here, 2 o'clock, continuing this conversation as the Eagles look for an offensive coordinator. At some point, we're going to do a little NFC East draft this week. That'll be fun. It'll be fun. Stay tuned. And as always, we love you.