PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Why Riq Woolen, Jihaad Campbell Are KEYS To Unlocking Vic Fangio’s New Defense | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: September 2, 2026

We think we know exactly what a Vic Fangio defense looks like, but every year includes tweaks for a coach who knows how best to utilize players like Cooper DeJean, Jordan Davis, Quinyon Mitchell and Jalen Carter. This year, Jihaad Campbell’s potential coverage chops and Riq Woolen’s playmaking upside could allow Fangio to do some different things schematically. Fran Duffy explains it all to EJ Smith and Bo Wulf.   Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast, Mo Wolf, Fran Duffy, E.J. Smith, back in the friendly confines of the Xfinity studio. Presented by Ashley Bo Wolf who's here. How you guys doing? Teased by Graham, Studio B. He told me all about this tight end prospect. He's like, you're going to love the quotes on this guy. And he just left me hanging. You're kind of player. Oh my gosh. 3-250 former linebacker moved to tight end. A little BV.S. VATU-V. Listen,

Collins football starts this weekend. People need to be checking out that friend W. Draft Guide. There's a lot going on with the guide. So become a diehard, get access to that thing. Yeah, I've heard from a lot of die-hards already. They've been using it as a second screen

while they're watching. So jump on. I'm not a big, like, UI guy. I don't like to overuse the term UI. But the UI on the draft guide is immaculate. It is such a good experience.

Yeah. That tip. To you. Thank you. And what a great way to, yeah, what a great thing to just have at the palm of your hand as you're watching these games, watching these guys. Doing these again. Come and die hard.

Check it out. Check it out. Fantastic. All right. Conceit of today's show. I'm going to talk a little scheme, a little ball about the defensive side of the ball. So much focus on what is the Sean Mannion offense going to look like. And I think we'll get into that a little bit more next week in advance of week one.

But we think we know Vick's defense, but it changes a little bit. year to year and how might it look differently this year? Who are the keys to all of that? When you look at what Vic has at his disposal in year three, what's like the number one thing that comes to mind and what you're curious about how he's going to deploy these guys? To me, it's now we know that Jahad Campbell's going to be a full-time player. You know, Jahad Campbell's likely to be a full-time player. Cooper de Jean making the move from nickel to safety and base. Does the defense evolve?

What are some of the minor evolutions we might see from the defense? And to me, when you're talking about these versatile pieces, the big question, ultimately, is what does this player allow me to do to basically disguise my intentions from the opposing team? And say, you know, we talk about this all the time on the offensive side, but it's absolutely true on the defensive side. When you have these guys that have that multifaceted skill set, like Zach Bond, like Cooper DeGene, you go to the defensive front,

you go to guys like Jalick's Hunt and you go to Jalen Carter and Morrow Ojamo, those guys that can win from multiple alignments that gives you the ability to be really creative and multiple is the word we always hear from coaches. But if I've got the same 11 on the field, I can do a lot of different things with those 11 guys.

And back in 2024, when Cooper DeGine got into the lineup in week five, the Eagles lived in nickel and they just said like, yep, no matter what the offense is going to throw at us, we're going to stay in this grouping and we can line up a number of, different ways. What does that look like here in 2026? That's going to be fun. And Vic has said in the past, he does prefer to just have 11 guys. He doesn't want to have guys coming in and out based on

situation necessarily. He'll do it if he has to, but he would prefer to have the 11 guys. Go ahead. I think back to that 2020 team. Right. That, you know, the, so you know, Sean Dessai was the defensive coordinator and it was, you know, who learned under Fangio. And it was the same idea with all these different like packages from a, like, hey, we have the ability. We have the ability. to go 515 and you had the penny front you had all these different but it was lots it was wholesale like hockey line changes amongst those groups well with this you're seeing all the different fronts you're seeing all the different variations but it's from that same like core 11 guys and when you have substitutions whether they are up upfront or in the secondary it is like hey it's it's a shift change

and we're going to still maintain that versatility no matter who's on the field like the early down nickel experience with Sidney Brown that year. Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of weirdness with that defense. It's funny, I was looking, I'm trying to zoom out and look at the big picture with the Eagles right now. You know, trying to get ready for the regular season. But it really does jump

out to you when you look at the Eagles like where they've ranked an EPA per drive each of the last five years, like 30th in 2023 to fourth. Sorry, second in 2024. It's just like the Vic Fangio effect. And we talk, there's a fun extended conversation we had to preview

the season with because that'll be on your feeds on Friday I believe but we talked about like I think that we can forget that the defense last year was just merely good very good you know it was great at times yeah but not over the course of the season as a whole and there were games when they got beat up obviously we all remember that that bears game so like as as vick digested that season. What do you think it was that he was hoping to fix or, you know, improve upon? Well, the first thing to come to mind is what they did early in free agency. And that was, you know, you go out and you sign Rick Wollin. Yeah. And you upgrade that CB2 spot. And to me, I go, you think back to that first year in 2024 where you had a veteran Darius Lay,

you had the rookie Quignan Mitchell. And the way that they utilized those guys was basically Darius Slay is going to be the left corner and Queenie Mitchell is the right corner. And no matter what, like that's, that's going to be at 98% of the time. We very rarely saw those guys switch sides or anything like that. Neither guy traveled. It was just that that's the way we're going to play. And then Slave moves on. And so now you've got Adori Jackson in that other cornerback spot. And then what we saw was that the Eagles played more field and boundary, where you've got a Dori Jackson to the wide side of the field, that's a longer throw for a quarterback. You've got the ability to roll coverage that way more often. And so you can give that guy more help. Whereas to the

boundary. It's obviously it's a shorter throw and you're rolling coverage away from that side and therefore putting Quinyan Mitchell on an island more often. When you've got Rik Wulin who is a vert he's a volatile player like and that's what we see. But he is definitely a more traitsy and he's more traitsy certainly than Dori Jackson was last year. He's longer. He's got that ability to hold up in man to man. So now if you are Vic Fangio again going back to that ultimate question, how versatile and how multiple does this player allow me to be? They don't need to say, all right, we're going to play field. boundary they can and because that makes you more predictable and say like you're probably rolling coverage this way to overcome for adori jackson you're probably so now you can you're less predictable um or if you might you might say you might go into a matchup and say hey you know what like we really like uh you know reek willan's ability to hold up with you know i'm trying to think of like you know Justin Jefferson I'm just being picking somebody and say like oh in this situation because of his height weight speed we really like his but George Pickens is a great okay yeah if we really like we really

like Reeks' ability to match up with George Pickens on money downs. So this is what we're going to do this week. And maybe that's different than what we're going to do the other 14 games. But in this specific matchup, I like that. So just giving Vic Fangio more tools, I think that's advantageous. And EJ, what have we seen from those two guys and the way Vic has used the corners this summer? Yeah, I feel like you might actually have a better beat on the sides that they've been lined up on. But I do feel like it's been less matchup dependent.

I haven't made note of like Quineon following anybody, even when Devante was healthy early in camp. But yeah, I think, you know, to Fran's point, like the Rieke-Wlin experience has been the thing that stands out with me. Even during joint practices, I don't remember Quineon following A.J. I don't know if you had that in your notes. No, I don't think so. Yeah. They've both played on both sides. No doubt. And I think, I think Vic is experimenting and he's talked about. He wants to be able to do different things, different weeks. But yeah, I mean, the idea of Rieck potentially. being to the boundary. Like, part of the fun of RIC in theory is that he's a playmaker. So you don't necessarily mind

if you're inviting a throw his direction. Right. Right. Yeah. And, you know, especially if Quignan Mitchell has added interceptions to stand. I don't know why you're laughing. I think that this is a reasonable take.

You know, I've been kind of, again, workshop in this one. I'm in. Quinion Mitchell is added interceptions to his game. I'm buying. I'm buying stock in the Quineon-Mitchell interception total this year. No, but I think that, you know, we say this all the time, especially this time of year when you're talking about players, like trying to make a push for the 53 is like,

oh, the more you can do. I think about it with the draft all the time. I remember saying it with Jalen Carter. When Jalen Carter's coming out of Georgia, it's like, all right, well, this is a guy that can win with speed as an interior rusher. He can win with power. He can win with strength.

He can win with effort. He can win with technique. He has lots of ways he can win. To me, like, that thought process, really kind of encapsulates the way I view like just every player like writ large in the NFL and what you can bring to a roster is like all right like what are the different things that you can do to help your team win and do you have the coach that can then leverage that skill set um i think that vic Fangio has shown like yeah i'm gonna you know the old Andy Reid axiom about you know put your

playmakers in position to make plays like i think that's a great example of that okay so as you think about maybe how opposing offenses want the defense to live, it feels like we're expecting a little bit more base because that's probably their best 11. If Dijin goes to safety, you get those five defensive linemen on the field, but obviously you're not going to play base against 11 personnel for the most part, right? And so do you think that opposing offenses, like the push pull of that will want the Eagles to be a nickel or want them to be in base? I think that it will definitely depend on the opponent. I'm fascinated to see if the Eagles want to lean more into base.

If you were going to play more zone, which we know the Eagles like to play a lot of zone coverage. Now they played a good amount of man on third down and some of the coverages they play, like do lend them. Like I said, Quinion Mitchell, they'll put him on an island.

He's essentially playing man to man. But putting those kind of intricacies aside, I do think we'll probably see more base, especially given the fed. I think Vic talked about this at some point this summer. It was like with teams leaning more to like the multiple tight end sets. Right.

We're going to have to play a little bit more base. And we've seen a lot of it this summer for sure. Yeah. And they're well equipped to do it, not just because of Cooper to Jean, but also because of Jihad Campbell. That's the thing. You add the range of Jihad Campbell

into this defense and the past coverage ability of him. Yeah, I think that they have the talent to be able to stay in baseball. Put a pin in Jihad because I want to spend a little bit more time on Jihad. Yeah, but I do think that his skill set allows you the opportunity

where if we're going to play more base, like you're not feeling that as much. because we are, it's not, because I think people think of like, oh, in base defense, like, all right, well, Jehad Campbell's going to get matched on a lineback or on a tight end, and Zach Bond's going to match them on an running back. When you play, you know, cover six, you play cover four, you play cover three. Like, you know, it's not necessarily matched that way. He might get matched up on CD Lamb, quote unquote, like in the slot.

Like, it's, it is more, do you have that ability to take away a throw from the quarterback and force him to the next progression in the read? And what about the importance of the edge guys being able to drop? Do we overstate that? No, because especially, and that's because you're playing, if they're playing in Basemore, so remember the Eagles base defense is three defensive tackles, two edge rush, so it's like a five, two, or three, four,

however you want to look at it. They don't blitz a lot. So that means that one of those guys, one of those five defensive linemen, is going to be dropping into coverage. Jalick's Hunt, that's how he leads the team in interceptions a year ago. Nolan Smith has that ability to drop in coverage.

He did it a lot back in 2024. He did it last year as well when he was healthy. That is something. that Jonathan Gernard has to get a custom do. He wasn't always asked to do that over the course of his career in Houston or in Minnesota. So yeah, you need those guys to be able to drop if you're going to live that way in base coverage.

You need one of those guys to be comfortable doing it. Okay. It's a quick break. Come back, talk somewhere. I want to talk about Jahad Campbell and what he might allow Vic to do if he is what the Eagles hope he is. And then the difference between

covering for your weak spot being CB2 versus it being potential. potentially safety to and what that might look like. Stay with us for more from Fran and E.J. on the other side. Very excited to welcome our newest sponsor, Draft Kings to the PHLY family. The weight is over. Football is here and Draft Kings is on. In this September,

Draft Kings is giving all customers the opportunity to get boosted every game day. That's right. Every game day, all month long, Draft Kings customers can get a profit boost plus get extra protection with early exit, opt-in, and if your player leaves the game with an eligible injury in the first half of your bet is protected. New Draft King's customers sign up with code P-H-L-Y, spend just five bucks and get $200 and rewards within 21 days. That's code P-H-LY, and partnership with Draft Kings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler, 21 and over, Pennsylvania only. Eligibility restrictions apply. $50 and non-withdrawable bonus bets issued every seven days

via click-to-claim for 21 days. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. One football boost per customer. Bet limits and restrictions apply. Tocons expire at the end of the final select game each day when offered. Terms at dkng.com slash offer. Limited time offer. Hello. My name is Jeffrey Lurie and Parks Casino is my casino of choice. Parks is a great place for a night of headline entertainment and award-winning dining.

You can make the night complete and stay at the new beautiful Parks View Hotel, which is just steps away from Parks Casino and offers shuttle service. What do they have coming up? Well, Michael Spaghetti Carabonaro will be there, the magician on September 19th, and make Ravioli appear out of thin air into your mouth. What's better than that? And Sebastian Bach with special guest Stephen Adler from Guns and Roses will be there on October 23rd. Parkscasino.com is where you go to buy tickets.

No better place to go. Get a little hot at the tables. Have some fun, some entertainment. The time of your life is right around the car. corner at Parks Casino. Must be 21 or older. Gambling problem, call 1,800 gambler. Back in the P.H.

My Eagles podcast, Bo, E.J. and Fran. Let's talk Jahad Campbell last year's first round pick. And Nekobi Dean was so good, second half of last season. But this is a different style of player. How might he allow Vic to do things differently? So, you know, I've said the thing in the past about, and Nacobi threaded this needle beautifully. But one of my reservations about him when he was coming out of Georgia was that he was a very like undersized linebacker, like in terms of like his lack of length, lack of height. He didn't have a ton of range.

And he also wasn't explosive. And I'll often say that it's hard to be small. It's hard to be slow. But it's really hard to be small and slow. And Nikobi was able to overcome that because he processed things extremely well. was extremely tough. Like there are other things that made him able to go. Honestly, it's a lot of things we see with Jeremiah Trotter Jr.

Like he is able to overcome the physical limitations because of the way that he sees the game. With Jahad, it's the opposite where he is tall, he is long. He's got outstanding range. He covers a ton of ground. And yeah, like one-on-one against a tight end in space, like there are things where he's still kind of like adapting to like playing one-on-one, like that dynamic of, you know, playing one-on-one in coverage. but if you are patrolling the middle hook, right,

you're working the middle of the field and trying to take those dig routes away, when you have a six foot one, six foot two linebacker with like outstanding length and outstanding speed trying to take those throwing lanes away, it's really hard for an opposing quarterback and he can deter throws because of that. So I think that is something that he gives Vic Fangio

is that this is a player that can take more of those throws away. You saw it all the time when Nacobi where like the opposing quarterbacks were able to complete some throws. over Nacobi, like just out of his reach, where it's like, oh, like a player like Jihad is able to take that throw away or deter that throw before it even happened. Yeah, this summer too.

Because, you know, I've been the one that has been holding the door most open for Jeremiah Trotter Jr., which is say I've been giving him like six turkeys in the potential position battle. And, you know, he had a fun, he had a really good preseason. People were excited about Jeremiah Trotter Jr. But on the practice field, there were just times where you could see the physical limitations show up.

And by contrast, like you see, what Jihad Campbell is just capable of doing. So maybe it's like down and down out. Consistency, Jihad Campbell has yet to get there. Not saying he won't get there, but just the ceiling, what he's able to do on the field really jumps out to you in contrast with some of these other guys.

Well, and what I think about, and if you can speak to this, friend, is the presence of Zach Bonn, being able to do everything that he can do should allow Jihad's life to be much easier. Right. And that's, you know, like, when when bond first made the transition,

he had Nacobi next to him to kind of be the traffic top. Yeah. And then it was like, all right, like Bonn, who's making the adjustment off, or from the edge to off ball,

and just passed it every single test with flying colors, sans that Atlanta game in week two. Every other thing that he was able to do, that's like, yeah, like put the playmaker in position to make plays. I think there's a way you can certainly make that analogy here,

where it's like, all right, like, Bond now can be that guy while also offering that playmaking dimension, but kind of cut him loose, him being Jehad Campbell, like cut Jehad Campbell loose to be that type of playmaker. Now, he still has a mental load that he has to handle in this defense. He always will. You know, I think that was an issue for him last year at times. It was like, you know,

you need to rely on the vets to like, like Reed and Zach Bonn and Cooper DeGine to kind of get him lined up essentially and take care of some of that. I would imagine that one year later that will be less of an issue. I think that would be the hope. And by next year, it should be even less of an issue and you know so on and so forth so um i think the the boom that you get with a player like jihad you know some of the mistakes that he might make in some of those areas like yeah maybe it results in a six-yard run instead of a three-yard run um you hope they they don't just turn into like the backbreaking like you know 25-yarders but the eagles gave up some of those last year too if the if the defensive line is that is not healthy so um yeah i think oh i'm excited to see what

jihad looks like yeah to me he like he affects the ceiling more than some of the other guys Like if Jahad Campbell can be as good as they want him to be Then all of a sudden, I mean the middle of the field is Patrolled yeah And especially against the offenses that they're likely to face Yeah, right. And I think when you think to the All the times where are they line up initially and it's if they're a nickel it's a four two You know you got four defensive linemen and two linebackers and then you see

Zach Bond come down as a as a as an edge rusher and now becomes a five one front You can do those same things with Jihad Campbell and so So if you're mixing and matching with defenses that way, because now you can get into like, all right, well, Bonn comes down, he comes off the edge, and, you know, offense has set the protection, and maybe they slide that way. But then Bonn actually drops out,

and Campbell comes from the other side, and he's now matched up on a running back, or he gets a free run at the quarterback because he's not accounted for in the protection. When you have that versatility at that position, yeah, that also, it would be really, again, like, the more you can do, a creative defensive coordinator,

a creative coach can leverage that skill set. And so as we transition to the next thing, which is about how might Vic have to cover for the weak spot being safety, you just think about the middle of the field. If the linebackers are great, then maybe you're a little bit less worried about the safeties. Yeah, and that's, you know, like, it depends on, you know, different coverages and things like that. Like, if they're playing cover three, one of those safeties is playing in the middle of the field, right? So they might be playing next to Bon or might, you know, playing next to Campbell. I was thinking about this earlier today just kind of mentally preparing for this conversation

in that 2024 defense the volatile player on the back end and I would have said like the weak link of the defense was CJGJ and it was like he was able to make up for it because he created those big plays right? I do think of I kind of think of Rikwollen as a similar kind of player in this defense

different position whereas when I look at Maccuba and when I look at Epps I think Epps is like a steady like kind of like reliable, you know, you kind of know what you're going to get there. Macuba, when I think of his college tape, I think that this is a guy that is going to be in the right spot. He's got that ability to take away.

He was not necessarily like mistake prone. Last year in his first year, we saw some mistakes and it was really, honestly, it was kind of like that one game. Yeah. It was a rough game against Tampa. Outside of that, like I kind of think the safety room will be okay. I'm not as worried about it now as I was three months ago. Okay.

Just because of what you saw this summer? I think so. Yeah. And I just like kind of the confidence that they that they showed in both Macuba and Epps where it wasn't really like the rotate. It's true. But it wasn't really like a question. It wasn't like oh like Carter's really pushing for it.

And now maybe that was by necessity. Maybe it was just like Carter doesn't have it. And it shows those guys by default. But the fact that it was really kind of knew it was Eps and MacCuba and it wasn't really a storyline. I think that's a good thing. Yeah. I don't think it was a reflection of like Michael Carter having a bad summer.

I think, you know, everything that we heard about Michael Carter was, he's new to this position. Maybe that's why he is a little bit behind in the competition. But overall, I think Vic actually feels really good about Michael Carter being a backup at both the nickel spot and safety spots. So I'm with you. Like going into training camp, it was a big question. As we kind of went through camp, it's like it feels like they're fine there. And a quick point about the linebackers and the safeties. Just like, we didn't hear from Highe Roseman, like specifically on this.

But it does feel like as Vic Fangio has kind of been pushing. like the modern defense into the NFL. And it is becoming more and more copied. It is interesting that we are covering an organization that never invested in linebacker. And now they have these two rangy linebackers just as all of these offenses across the NFL are trying to leverage the middle of the field.

I wonder like, you know, how he didn't say this, but I do wonder if that was part of the calculus there. It's also funny too, juxtaposing it against the offense where it's like, all right, maybe they're late to the party with like the Shannon.

It's like, all right, well, you've got the architect of the, the scheme that takes away that that offense and has been, you know, is developing into everyone trying to get a piece of the big Fangio tree. You have the architect on that side to take that away. I think that's an interesting juxtaposition as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you feel like it matters? This is something we've mentioned, but do you think feel like it matters that they, these two sides of the ball have gotten to practice against each other in ways that these are likely what they're going to see the most? Yeah. Do we think it's more beneficial for? I think it's more beneficial for. I think it's more beneficial for the offense.

I think so. Because specifically, this is something I asked Sean Manning about a couple weeks ago, the benefit of seeing how Vic responds to certain things pre-snap. You know, trying to get tells from a Vic Fangio defense from actually Vic Fangio. I feel like that will make the regular season. Well, I feel like the practice is just more instructive. Where you say, we ran this motion pre-snap and they showed us this and then they were in this. I don't know.

It probably helps you more going up against Vic who handles these things, maybe a little bit better than some of like the imitators out there. Actually, I think about it because I hadn't thought about it until we were talking about. I think I might lean the other way that I think it's actually more beneficial for Vic. How often have we heard Vic Fangio saying we don't get to practice against his motions and against these kind of looks? Like this is foreign to us essentially. Now that they do get to see that and get to rep that stuff out more, maybe the communication that we, you know, the lack of communication we saw in that Black Friday game. Maybe that won't show up as much.

Back to the safety as quickly. how like in the way that we saw Vic try to cover for Adory Jackson last year and roll coverages his way and put him to the boundary, how are ways in which he would cover for feeling like you have a weekend set safety? Good question. I think that you're trying to limit the amount of times that you think back to the touchdown that Reed Blangachiev gave up against Devante Adams last year where he's one on one.

Basically it was a version of quarters coverage where he's locked up against number two and it was a vertical route, so it's a one-on-one essentially for the safety. Probably fewer of those calls where you might put a safety in that spot. Outside of that, that would probably be... So, you know,

maybe you'll need more into like some more cover three type of looks. But that's the thing is that, like, cover six is essentially cover three. There's a lot of, like, they're kind of like minute little details. Just kind of depends on like, well, I guess where would you want

the weak link to be in cover three if you're rotating one safety down. Do you want them over the top or do you want them in the middle of the field? Well, because there's all the different versions of the cover three. Like so, you know, there's, uh, cover three buzz would be,

all right, the safety's going to come down and play in the middle of the field. And then you've got the, you'd have an edge rush or drop to buzz out or the linebacker buzz out to the flat. Uh, but then you have like cover three sky would be the safety actually comes down

and he's taken out of the flat. So maybe that's where you see Macuba. That's where you see Mucca. That's, that's a, I think you see that less often than you would see like the standard, uh, version of three, but, yeah,

what about? Kind of like this little minute Buster. Two Buster. Well, that's what like, you know, last year they played like some cover, yes, for the, for the long time listeners.

I think for me, like last year, like there were some of those like cover two snaps where like, and that's why I want to see from Jihad camp, we're just going to bring it back to Jihad. Is like some of the dig routes in the middle of the field. I remember seeing it week one, against the Cowboys.

Yeah. It goes down the field. Yeah, it's like unbelievable. He sees it, he sees it like a step late. And I'm like, oh, like, I want, he's going to make one of these plays. And I'm hoping that we get to see him make that play like here this year. It's like, he makes that kind of jump. That will make me giddy. Like that'll be like, like, oh, postgame show,

and they show a great replay of it. And I can't wait to break it down. Like, that's what I'm hoping for. Go ahead. This is anecdotal. And if it turns out that Jihad Campbell has a great year, then I'll clip this. And if it doesn't, then we will just forget it ever happened. Being in the locker room last year,

The, like, mutual respect from all of, like, the big dogs in the Eagles locker in which Chad Campbell really jumped out to me. Like, Sequin Barclay, A.J. Brown, Devante Smith, all these guys who, like, they almost, like, gravitated toward him and wanted to take them, take him under their wing in a way that it's not always a given that rookies will have. And he's, like, got a big personality. He's, like, a, you know, a silly guy in the locker room. But, like, those guys really seem to, like, recognize his potential, you know.

And he did not hang his head. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I think most people would. I think he would have liked to be on the field, no doubt. But yeah, he seemed to handle that very professionally. Yeah, he seems like a very mature young man. That sounds weird for me to say that.

But he's younger than me. Mature young man. Yeah. Okay. So last question here is if you had to pick like one guy on the defense who is the fulcrum, who is like, you know, allows Vic to do everything he wants. And, you know, he gets, he's going to have to really go back to a drawing. board if they're missing this player for a week or two who is the guy the to me it's one of two

and i think i lean towards it being zach bonn just because he he is like the the front guy the front and the back at like his his value moving forward and backwards i think is what what leans me that way as opposed to de jean some people think that vick hasn't always done a great job of leveraging the skill set of correct i didn't say that i didn't say that no i I think that to me, it's one of the two. I can see how you get there with Bond, though, because they have so much flexibility with the front because of Zach Bond's versatility.

Right. Yeah. I think that would be it. Okay. Take a little brick. I'm back with more on the other side. We've also got some little nuggets from some of the offensive assistant coaches

we spoke to yesterday. Fran, E.J. and Bo. Hang with us. Hey, hey, Howie, there's no way anyone's going to claim Cameron a lot to. I promise you. My name is Ray, and I know everything that's going on in the NFL. Oh, sorry, Ray.

You're wrong. You're being shady. And that's not what we're here to talk about today. No. We're talking about our friends at Shady Ray's, the best sunglasses company around. Why? Because they've got your back, as well as your eyes. If you lose your sunglasses, if you break your sunglasses,

Shady Ways will replace them for you so you can wear them and not be worried about it. Wear them to hikes, concerts, on the boat, driving, wherever. Shadyrays is eyewear that has your back. And who else has your back? We do, because we've got a great promo code for you. It's P-H-L-Y-50. And if you go to ShadyRase.com and use code P-H-L-Y-50, you get 50% off two or more pairs of polarized sunglasses.

What's better than that? We miss you, Cam. You know what's funny? Aside from the great comedian Ben Bankus, Well, what's funny is you can stream anything anytime instantly. Order food in like 15 minutes. But somehow getting tickets to a game or a concert still feels like a full-time freaking job. They're dealing with waiting rooms.

Prices jumping around. Hidden fees. It's brutal. That's why you got to do what I do. And that is use the GameTime app. It makes the whole thing easy. You get to see the seat view of what it's going to look. like when you get there, you get to have the guarantee that you're going to get the lowest

price because of GameTime's guarantee. You get the zone deals where you can pick a section. They pick the seat so you save even more money. It takes the guesswork out of buying tickets. So, download the GameTime app, create an account and use code PHLOI for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, code PHLY for $20 off. Download the GameTime app today. Back in the PHon, Wai, He Goes podcast, Bo, Fran, and EJ, like the video. people do your part. Not that much to ask. Thank you very much.

You always have to antagonize them. I mean, you all those. They're not. They're not. They're not in his basement. That's where they're sitting. Who cares? Just like the video.

It doesn't really helps us out. It doesn't a lot of good. Beautiful today. You smell great. We love you. I can't attest it if you smell greater. You know, just scratch our back while we scratch yours.

That's all. Yeah, I agree. Well said. Wah-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W-W. Still on the defense. Last thing to discuss here. Maybe the most important thing. The big fellas, the big guys up front.

Any chicanery you might expect from Vic when it comes to the guys up front, and why do they allow him to get freaky on the back end? Yeah, I think the big thing that you see from those guys is like, just Vic. No, no, no, no. I think they're... Dirty uncle. No. Please stop.

To me, we talk all the time about, oh, you talk about Zach Bond's versatility. And it's like, oh, it's great that he can come down from linebacker and he comes down to the edge. You can't do that unless everybody else also has that ability to slide around. You don't, if you don't have, if you have one versatile piece, it doesn't fit. You need everybody else to also be able to acquiesce. through that versatility and be also to change roles as well. So the fact that Jalen Carter and Ojamo and Jordan Davis have that ability to line up at different techniques and win, I think is really important.

So we'll continue to see that, obviously. The fact that Jaylux Hunt and Nolan Smith and Grenard have that ability to drop back in reverse and play in coverage, that's also really important because, again, the Vic Van Jude does not like to blitz. He does not often send five or six rushers. So on those occasions where he does blitz a linebacker, or Cooper Dijin or whoever it is, then you need one of those guys to be able to drop out

and to look fine in space doing it. And maybe match a shallow crosser or run with a running back out of the backfield. So having that ability to do that with those players is very, very important. I'll be interested to see. And we saw small strides to last like a year or two where maybe they do some things from like a rush front standpoint

or sliding a guy inside to get a more advantageous line up. a matchup against a guard or, you know, going like straight up five over five. And Bond doesn't necessarily come down and play off the edge from a run game standpoint. But, you know, maybe he comes down and lines up over the guard and runs a stunt with Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis. Like more of those things, that that has not been something we've seen consistently from the Eagles, really ever, because, you know, under the Jim Schwartz defenses, like they were just straight like four man and go.

But that could be one thing that, you know, could just add a little sprinkle of extra creativity up front. ways in which they can try to free up Jalen Carter specifically from, you know, extra attention. That is, that's when you, it comes into like the jihad Campbell, Zach Bonn, hey, we're going to line up when what I always call like a diamond front, you know, you sprinkle a little sugar on the egg out, you get those guys up against interior offensive linemen because what happens often is if you take a linebacker and put them over the center or you put them over the guard and now it's five over five in that way,

you are kind of dictating to the offense, like how you want them to protect. Because it's like, okay, well, we want you to either slide the protection towards Zach Bond side. So if Zach Bond's lined up to the left, he's lined up over the left guard, either the center's going to slide that way or the center's going to slide away from that

and you're going to have the running back go up against Zach Bond. And you might like that as well. The Eagles feasted on running backs last year with Nicobi Dean in that role saying like, even if you know it's coming, like Nicopi is going to do truck stick your running back and get after the quarterback.

So whether that's Shahad, whether that's Zach Bond, you can look at it as we want to get this matchup of linebacker versus running back or we're trying to get you to slide that way. So then now it's Jalen Carter one-on-one with the guard. Having those guys opposite each other works in that way. On stuff. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah, I was just thinking like I was, I'm curious if they got away from that last year with Carter because he wasn't quite himself. You know, is it fair to say it's something they maybe didn't major in but toward the back half of last year? Yeah. And that's what that's what I mean though is that like even even in years past that has not been something that

we've always seen from this defense you know like peak fletcher cox it was literally like yeah let's go win like and so why not like what's the foundational reason to not do that to be more gap sound yeah i think so i think it was just say because we would see them run like they would run stunts they ran stunts at a high rate but it wasn't anything like out of multiple different you know different creative alignments right it was yeah again like we're going to line up four verse five and we're going to, we think that you're sliding that way, and we're going to run a stunt opposite the slide. You know, and I've talked about that with Vinny,

like on the postgame show at times when we've seen those players. So, um, well, it reminds me a little bit of the conversations we've had about the offense in the past. Yeah. It's like we have the horses with A.J. Brown and Devante Smith, where we don't need to get too fancy because these guys can,

we can just rely on them winning their one-on-one matchups. Yeah. Why not make it easier for them? Yeah, I was wondering if maybe it's like Jalen Carter can still beat a double team, so we aren't going to try and get them away from him so consistently, like, you know, that's what the money's for maybe. But it feels like antithetical to, I feel like guys,

that's just us not understanding it. Yeah. Interesting question. I think that the way a few years ago, like it crystallized from me in my mind, because, you know, and it's different, every defense is different. But you can either be creative up front and simple on the back end

or you can be creative in the back end and simple on the front end. It's hard to be simple at both. And if you're simple at both, then I think that you really need just like elite players to say like that's how that's the way we're going to be. Eagles have blue chip talent at all three levels. And they're not simple in the back end. They're very, they're really, really sound on the back end. And they do have a pretty good roll of X of coverages. But yeah, I think that it goes back to the beginning of conversation where when you have the pieces in the back seven to be creative and do different things out of the same look, now that.

makes you less predictable and now you can just get after guys up front with a with a four man rush aesthetically what do you prefer to watch a defense that's freaky up front or freaky in the back i like the freaky up front really yeah i've always liked that i like the i like the defenses where like you get really creative with like the different and that's why like i love like brian flores yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm so my hey we're just gonna play we're gonna play we're gonna play cover zero or we're gonna play we're gonna play a lot of straight man to man to man coverage and we're gonna have all kinds of crazy front stuff like i because i the the aspect of defense that i i i just like studying more is like the breaking down

of protections and like oh this is how they created this matchup against the back or how they created the free runner, you do that with the creative fronts as opposed to the opposite. So that's the way that I personally lean. Okay. I feel like that's also probably a little bit more

of an effective way to play defense to try to affect the quarterback up front than try and like, oh, let's mess with his eyes and like let's get somebody. It feels more effective. It's more chaotic. Right? Yeah, to be freaky up front.

I think so. But in a better, like we've always talked about with Flores, a better way to maybe make up for talent efficiencies. It's also the opposite of what teams have been doing for the last half decade of like, all right, we're going to play more too high shell and we're going to really mess with you. Effectively, like they've been very good at eliminating the explosive play. As explosive play rate is down around the NFL over this time.

So, but there's the given take. I mean, if you're if you're freaky in the back, as Beau put it, then what is like, what is your upside? covered sacks at that point. Yeah. I mean, the guys up front win, yeah. Who really gets fired

up about a cover sack? I mean, but this is like, you know, the Seahawks won a Super Bowl this way last year. The Eagles won a Super Bowl that's way the year before.

Like, you know, I think we were freaky up front. They had freaks up front. We should. Who were we talking? For 20, 24 Eagles. Well, that's what I mean. Yeah, like they had freaks up.

I'm speaking. Schematically. Statically. Stematically. Yeah. And that's why you can get away with it and the Eagles have for years got away.

It's like, all right, well, you go back to, they went straight too deep on that 2017 defense with Jim Short's like, you know, I think when you, up front, the full sale line changes and say like, yeah, we're going to get after you with our first and second team. Yeah, you can go.

I guess that's the type of thing where if you are simple up front and you can create havoc like the 2024 Eagles did, that's, that's the ultimate flex. Right. Like, we don't need to do any tricks. We're just going to beat you up. You're going to get pressure naturally, easily. And but going the other way,

on it too. Like, if you are going to, whichever way you're going to be simple, and I think of it from the team building standpoint, wherever you're going to be simple, that's where you need your guys. That's where you need,

like, so if you're going to be great on the back, you're going to be like really multiple in the back end, then your defensive front needs to be awesome, like from a talent standpoint. Miles Garrett with Jim Schwartz in Cleveland, you know, the Eagles defensive line in years past.

If you're there, when I think to Brian Flores, like, all right, when he was in New England, what they had Stefan Gilmore and some of the great corners that they had go through there. You kind of need those guys

to be able to match up that way. All right, good stuff. Close the book on a Wawa Wednesday. Be free to get freaky, wherever you want to get freaky. Front back, Wawa, whatever it is. Your parents' basement? Yeah, by all means.

What do you got to do? All right. Quick break. On the other side, we'll talk a little bit about some of the offensive nuggies from yesterday and whatever else.

You want to discuss? Have you got any questions? Let us know. Back with more. Big news on the diehard front. And we are not talking about a new installment of the franchise with Bruce Willis. Yes, it is a Christmas movie. No. We're talking about you, supporting us, us helping you and giving you value for your money. Because now we have two different tiers to become a diehard. He had level one. $36 a year. That's $3 a month. Level one is for those of you who want more of our coverage and community. You get the premium written content access to the diehard lounge hosted on Discord. And more, that means when E.J.'s breaking news about Zach Ertz, you get it.

When Kyle is breaking down LeBron, you get it. When Corey is writing about Bryce Harper playing every game, you get it. When Charlie is writing about whatever it is that's going on. with the flyers, you get it. Now, you want to take that up a notch. Become a pro for $80 a year. And then you get all the perks. You get a free t-shirt. You get the NFL draft guide, courtesy of our man, Fran Duffy, which is already live. College football starts this weekend. And Fran has you covered. It's already there. You can already have this companion for your college football Saturdays. And you get discounts.

and more than $200 in partner perks, and those are even going to ramp up a little bit more as the season goes on. So go to all phtly.com slash join to check out the new diehard levels and choose the one that's right there for you. Go to all phtly.com slash join. Click the link in the description or scan that QR code on the screen to become a diehard. We're doing it for you.

do it for us. Scratch your back. We scratch yours. Mutually beneficial. Back on the page of my equals podcast. Bo, E.J. and Fran. No, we did not patronize hockey fans in the channel. I love hockey fans.

I just, I don't know enough about it. It's some patronizing myself. Wait, when did you patronize hockey fans? I'm talking about Charlie writing about whatever it is he's writing about. I don't know enough about, you know. Charlie writes about all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

I know. I learned from Charlie. I'm not. I can't speak to it. Yeah. I think that's fair. Please. Where my flyers sign all the time.

Love the flag guys. My first favorite team. Yeah. First favorite team was the 93 Flyers once in a cup. Seven years old. I know that's right. How many Flyers can you name? I'm not going to do this game.

I'm not playing this game. I was just thinking about one of my earliest memories is telling my dad, like I really like Jeremy Roanick and my dad's disappointment. I mean, you know, he wasn't a hockey guy. I appreciated the Flyers. All right, we had a chance to talk to some assistance yesterday, E.J., ping pong back and forth a couple takeaways if you'd like. Yeah.

I want to litigate this right now. What? I came on the show the first time we heard from Josh Grizard, and I came on the show and said, I like a Josh Grizard. And you seem a little less impressed by a Josh Grizard press conference, and that disappointed me. Yeah. Doesn't sound like he just changed his mind on that front I like him

I thought he was He was better about talking through Football stuff Than some Yeah, he absolutely I like I like a I like the way he breaks stuff down Yes

He's got a nice southern draw Uh oh Ask me a question Do you like it How would you like to do you like Do you like to get freaky in the front of the back Bless your heart.

You can do better at that. Well, I swear, I swear, I swear. I'm just a southerner from Lizard Lick, North Carolina. Is he Fogwart? Yes. I reckon Nick Siriani

focuses on the details more than any other coach of I've been. Oh, man. You got to watch. video to make sure you get the full experience of that one. I thought it actually thought that his answer about that was interesting. Well, what?

I was asked him about working for Nick, as that compared to whatever your, you know, perception of it might have been from going up against him. And his thing was, you know, when you watch those teams on tape and we were preparing for him, they looked very, you know, they looked very, you know, very fundamentally sound and they played hard. and it's been interesting to be here to see that it's not just like day one stuff, but every single day it is a focus that the fundamentals matter. Yeah, I always, when people ask me about Nick Siriani,

I always bring up the fact that it'll be like day 12 of training camp, and Nick will be yelling at somebody about the ball security, like the class pan and the ball security drill. He does feel like the way that he talks about in press conferences, I think translates to the way he is with the players where he's kind of, constantly harping on it. So yeah, I think as a new coach to the staff, that's probably surprising for them as well, how often that, it really is like the top priority and he is not afraid to be repetitive with it. Do you think that that Grazard is like a useful sounding board

for Sean Manion in terms of, you know, doing this for the first time? Yeah, I mean, there's, there's got to be lessons from his time in Tampa Bay and it not going well that you could take or from, that Sean Mangon can take from him. And, you know, it's only going to get you so far. But I'm sure there are a few mistakes, a few things that Josh Gassard would like to have back that, you know, Sean Manion hopefully, or, you know, in theory, wouldn't have to make those same mistakes. Okay.

What did you take away from the gris? I mean, it's, again, to your point, he doesn't, he tries not to say anything super illuminating, but he is him talking through some of the concepts I think he does a nice job with. I asked him about Jalen and the comfort calls trying to figure out, you know, what calls in the offense Jalen feels best about and he talked about the rhythm that you want to find with those calls.

Like if things aren't going well in a game, you want to have things you can fall back on. And I just thought the thing he said about not just the fact that the play worked, but seeing Jailant's footwork in the play and seeing the timing on the play, having a handful of those going into the regular season, I did think that was interesting.

Okay. I forgot, like, and just as a refresher for people, like his background, the gris. So he was in Tampa last year as the office coordinator, was in Tampa the year prior as the past game coordinator under. Liam Cohen. Liam Cohen, who is now the head coach in Jacksonville. Liam Cohen. Oh. Oh, like, but he, that's like a, he's a McVeigh tree guy.

Yeah. And before that, he was in Miami and as assistant under Mike McDaniel. So he is fluent in different iterations of this system. So that is an interesting sounding board to have alongside Sean Mannion. And if things do go well and Mannion gets poached as a, you know, to me, it would seem like a rightful next guy up as the OC. Do you ever, I'm sure that this has happened to you when you're asking a question and you're like, oh, you know what?

I think I thought of a good question here. And then maybe this is something that they've thought about. and then you just get a total a total no-sell Yeah Happen to me brutal on Monday It happened to me with the gris

Oh That's why he doesn't like them No it's I don't just like him I just you know Hossi oh say I'll say I'll say Um No he just didn't answer it

Well no my question was He was he was being peppered About the Um progression breeds Right And he was talking through Some of the benefits

and negatives about it. And my question was because the quarterbacks that he's worked with, Baker Mayfield and Tua, like these are not mobile quarterbacks. And so do they build into the progression on some of these plays instead of it being one, two, three? It's like, well, let's take advantage of Jalen's legs. It's one to go.

Which does happen. Teams do do that. Right. Yeah. And he's, eh. He may not have. Interesting. Oh, he went.

But I again, it was more about like the timing is the timing and, you know, there's a clock for everybody. I feel like he probably was just worried about painting Jalen into a corner where it's like, yeah, he's going to run a lot more than here. Maybe. I wonder if like, do you design plays with that in mind where like you'll, you know, you'll flood the left side and that way if it's not open, you know that the right side is going to be open for him to run through. I don't know. Right. I could say with certainty that. It may not be drawn up in the playbook in the spring that way.

But weekly game plan, like, as you're going through it, it's like, hey, like, one, two, if three's not there or if he's not there, like, this is your get out dodge moment. And that's like training your feet. Just like how they're training, if you're, if it's Tua, like, you're not giving that coaching point to him. It's like, no, like, do you get to three, get to four and five. but with Jalen, you might say, like, no, like, get to three. And if it's not there, now you're going. Okay.

How about the run game coordinator and tight ends coach, Ryan Mahefee? What did you learn from? Yeah, so Ryan Mahefee is. So it's Mahaffee. Not my half. Might be Mahaffee. We haven't asked him that. Soon enough, he might be Moffully.

Boom. He, unlike the Grizz, he seems like a really nice guy. He just really doesn't want to say very much about it. anything. He wants to keep everything close to the hang though. Yeah, he does. He's a nice guy. He's always got the coffee cup without the top. He wants it to cool off, which

interesting choice. Yeah. It's a big Jason Kelsey move, I feel. It's carrying it around the old school paper coffee cup, yeah. Got to get the lid on that bad boy. Oh, speaking of coffee. I made the greatest latte art I've ever made in my life this morning. Lafay art. Or Latte

art. Latu art? Is that something? I'm going to post it on Instagram. So if you're listening to the show later on, you can see it. Okay. All right. I'll send it. No, you guys can't see it now. Can I text it?

Is that going to be bad, Lindsay, if I text it? Okay, I'm going to text it. This better be great. Oh, it's incredible. It's the best I've ever done. Anyway, Ryan Maffee, yeah, he just doesn't say a whole lot. I think that what our listeners will want to hear about is that he mentioned with Eli Stowers that it oftentimes takes tight ends a long time to adjust to the NFL, and they feel

great about where he's at. I think it's more about where he's at in the meeting rooms and, you know, kind of along his development path. But yeah, he was, he was complimentary of the progress that Eli Stowers has made so far and pointing out the fact that it's probably going to take him a little while to adjust the NFL. Yeah. And I thought there was a good question about the mental aspect of it, which is something that we, you know, we've talked about over the years, but, you know, you go from being the big dog on

campus and getting the ball all the time to now being back at the bottom of the ladder. You know, how do you handle that? He seems like he has, from talking to Stavis, he seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. Yes, absolutely. I mean, that's going to be tough. Yeah, I mean, it is a position that usually takes guys a little bit to adjust. Yeah. So that said, like, even if he's healthy, I think it's going to be a while before you see

him make an impact on the field. How about wide receivers coach Aaron Moorhead? Yeah, I mean, I thought, you know what? Since we're talking about Aaron. Morehead, it makes me think of the receivers. I did find it interesting that Josh Gazzard said that he sits next to Mackay Lemon in the meeting room. He says that Aaron Moorhead sits on the other side of him.

So definitely an intentional choice to just get McKay Lemon up to speed, even though he's been missing time here during training camp. Yeah, there were some interesting things from Moorhead. He very, like, normally set, just without any couching. Like, you know, when Devonte was down, Taywicks was our number one. And he, you know, handled that role well. he's going to be a good number two. Like very much,

that's our number two wide receiver. No debate about that. Interesting. He was asked a lot about Mackay, obviously, and the ways that they had to be intentional about bringing him along while he was injured. It talked about him during a walkthroughs, like actually just being in the huddle with Jalen

so he could hear the calls and not hear it over the radio, things like that. Yeah, you said he told Mackay, anything that Devante does, you do. Yeah. And I think that might have been a question about what McIalleman said about being more professional to avoid the hamstring injuries moving forward.

Because I think that was like an eyebrow raising thing to say. Like what do you mean by that? And he didn't really get too much into it. I think it was like prehab, you know, rehab after practice, stuff like that. And yeah, like the stuff that Devante does every day. I found it also interesting that, you know, he mentioned while Devante was out, like they obviously may do. But when he came back, there was like almost like a side.

relief. Oh yeah, this is what it's supposed to look like. So yeah, I thought, you know, he was very complimentary of Devante. Said that, you know, Devante always has felt like he's a number one receiver. Internally, they've always felt that way. It just so happened that AJ was also there. So, yeah, I think that there's, I mean, we've said it a lot. There's a lot of enthusiasm about Devante this year. How about running backs coach Jamal? Punch the keys, Jamal. It's funny because he said something that you said on the show during our practice, or our

shows out in New England, not proud. Which is that we get used to seeing Seekwon Berkeley on the practice field, but Jamal Singleton said like it was like Patriots coaches who would come up to him and just this guy is ridiculous. Like, you know, and some of the new coaching staff as well, like the fresh eyes on Sequin. And yeah, I think we've talked about it. Like Sequin looks awesome this summer. And Jamal Singleton didn't really shy away from that. Said that it shows like the offseason, the longer offseason for Seekon seems to have had an impact

on the way he looks physically. It's not talked about that position just because I think of the nature of the position. I think Jamal Singleton is a top, easily a top five running backs coach in the league. Easy. Yeah, I think when you look at like the improvements that guys make under him, you know, I think of the strides that Miles made, the strides that DeAndrex said made, I think some of the bad habits that Sequin had in New York that were erased in 2024. I think Jamal Singleton is really, really good.

I mean, Seekwon has talked about it, how. Jamal Singleton helped him take the next step in his career and go up a level. Yeah. And it's the fundamental stuff, stuff on the field, but also like the intangible stuff, the like I believe in you aspect of it and like the way he runs his room. So yeah, I think that's a good call. Yeah, I found myself thinking when he was up there just about, you know, you're Jamal Singleton.

You're one of the best running backs coaches in the NFL. You probably aspire to some kind of higher thing. Yeah. And, you know, here comes. Here comes another young guy, young hot shot guy. He's the new offensive coordinator. He's bringing along another young hot shot guy to be the past game coordinator, like all this stuff.

Like, I don't know. You might feel some kind of way about that. I don't know. I think that he's got aspirations beyond it. Yeah, remember talking to him about his head coach notebook. You know, like you put your plans together for that. He's got all that stuff. Like, I don't know.

Oh, great. Yeah, I mean. Six-year-old white guys is my new boss. I was about to say the running backs coach role. doesn't always get a lot of, well, definitely, that doesn't, almost never gets the recognition

that the receivers coach and the quarterback's coaches. Yep. Okay. There was one more thing on, no, what did he say about, oh, it was his experience in this offense,

that he does, he has touch points in it as well. Oh, Jack Taylor, uh, and older Gerdin. And also, yeah,

he coached at Colorado State. I believe. No, Air Force. Air Force. When he was at Air Force. It was when Kubiak was indebted. So there were some flash points there as well. Nice.

So not completely foreign to him. Also not foreign to us. The concept of overtime. Although I don't know how much meat there is left on this bone. Well, listen, they made it to overtime. Now they get to see my latte art. So there's a lot of meat left on the left. That's what everyone came to see.

Lindsay, shout out Lindsay. I mean, man. Cut that meat. Look at that. That's pretty nice. That is. High level stuff right there. I mean, I make a lot of bad latte art.

That's elite right there. That's the best I've ever done. I don't even know what it really was, if I'm being honest. So I don't know if I can replicate it. You know, I was aggressive. Like a heart flour. They called a rosetta in the coffee game. You got to get the air in the milk for the first, like, half of the time you steam it.

And I was aggressive today, getting the air in there. But then if you get the air in there. But then if you get the air in there, you got to get really aggressive. Banami versus McGory in basketball. You got to be aggressive. You got to be a deal. Texturing from there. So you get the air in.

Milk gets like thick, like a cappuccino. And then you got to swirl it. You got to get it to just spin hard in the container. So I was aggressive on both. Got the timing perfect. And then the poor, you got to get the wrist wiggle. You know, the wrists shake down. You know, otherwise you don't get the ripples in there.

So I think we need to go full screen again so we can see more of that wrist action. Like this. It can't be like this and it can't be like this. Like this. You guys understand? All right. This is years in the main. Can we get a close up?

I don't know. I'm not going to keep doing it. I just, I demonstrated it already. I do have a question though. What's the question? There's no chance that you picked up this mug and did not spill. a drop of coffee on the counter because that thing is right up to the lip. No, I didn't.

I'll take a little sip. I trust you. Yeah, no, I didn't. I promise you, I didn't spill. Like, the tricky part is you see the line that goes all the way down to the bottom. Yeah. You've got to really time that. You got to like.

Yeah, the wrist. I get it. But I'm saying when you picked that up to get a sip. I promise you. I didn't know. Yeah. All right. Did you like celebrate?

You know. Do a little LeBron after that? Yeah, well, I set it down. And before I had even set it down, I was like, Julia, you got to come here and look at this. You got about another month and a half for Julia to pretend to be excited about that. No, Julia, like, she likes latte art for now. Yeah, okay. I mean.

Oh, you wait, E.J. Oh, I don't mean like that, but like, yeah. You're not going to be so impressive anymore. They told me that. They told not me. They told us that in the birthing class. Like, at some point, your, like, dad's jokes aren't going to be funny anymore. Like your jokes are not going to be as funny as it used to be.

No, that's not true. I mean, we'll see. Those will age. You know the other one? I forget if I said this to you or not. As far as the pets are concerned. Oh, yes. Like the moment the baby's born, like the dog becomes the dog.

It used to be like, oh, the dog was like, oh, the dogs are a baby. The dog is now the dog. The relationship with the pets after Francis was born, night and day different after. There's like a clear before and after. I got to warn them because Maddox, man, Maddox got in big trouble yesterday. Oh, we do. They have that they're, we feed them in their crates, and their crates are next to each other. And they've always been fine.

But something about Maddox yesterday, I could tell him, just a little off, a little throw yesterday. And he like wolves down his dinner. And I wasn't up there. I just heard ears shaking and just like a commotion. So I go up there, Maddox wolf down his dinner and rushes over to eat Pharaoh's. dinner. And like dog owners will know like that could get serious. Like dogs resource guard like you know that's you know they could fight over that but Pharaoh is just he ain't got that dog enough. He just let Maddox eat his dinner and then I had to be the one like Maddox you can't do that

like you cannot do that. So Maddox got in trouble and then I had to give Pharaoh a second dinner. How did you get in trouble. What'd you do? I just yelled at him and put him in the crate. That's my thing with my dogs. They hate when I yell. So I don't have to yell very often. But when I do they No. You know what time it is. Yeah, I know what time it is. Bust the dad voice out. Yeah, they really hate when I yell.

Because Julia was like, Pharaoh was like, Pharaoh was so scared you're going to yell at him. And it's like, why? I didn't do it. So anyway. Yeah, Maddox was, he was in the crate for a while last night. Do they have like apologetic looks like when they do something wrong?

Um, sometimes. But Maddox, like I said, he's been a little, a little tilted recently. He didn't care. He knows what the time's up for him coming up. He's looking to be like, I don't care about you.

anywhere. He knows what time it is. All right. Good stuff today. Thank you for the breakdown, Fran. Thank you for the insight, EJ. Tomorrow's show is a big one. Big one.

Spread your wins and fly. Woo, baby. How do we feel about the other 31 teams in the NFL? What team will Lindsay end up with? Can't wait to find out. Join us for that at 2 o'clock tomorrow. Until then. Have a lovely evening.

And as always. I say, assy, assy, assy, ah, oh I love you. Man.