PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Boras Boras

Episode Date: January 20, 2022

On this episode, Derek and Jesse discuss calling in the big guns in the form of super agent Scott Boras, punishing Hall of Fame nominees for past transgressions, and debating the universal designated hitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to another edition of the PHNX D-BACs podcast right here on PHNX. My name is Derek Montia, of course known as your mayor of PHNX, and I'm joined by my vice mayor, my friend, my co-host, the one and only Thunderstick, Jesse Frieden. Derek, did you survive the trip? Red Eye flying to Washington, D.C., and you're there, you're live. I survived. I'm here in a hotel room. I'm with my friends, and I had a great time on my first day. I'm a little bit tired. We didn't get much sleep, but I, We had a great week in our first day. So it was a lot of fun. And D.C. has been beautiful. I've never been to Washington, D.C. before.

I plan on going to see Nationals Ballpark today. So that's an exciting prospect as far as things to do here in the D.C. area. I'm also going to go do some mayoral stuff in front of the White House. So I know all PHNX family members are excited about that. But, of course, this show is brought to you by the fine folks at the Draft King Sportsbook app. Go download the Draft King Sportsbook app now. Use our code of PHNX. and simply for betting $5 on any team this weekend.

Counting down to Super Bowl 56, you will get 56 to 1 odds on any team. Bet just $5 and get $280 in free bets if your team wins. And that's with code, PHNX. And yeah, Jesse, I'm excited. I found out here in the D.C. area, they have weird gambling rules when it comes to the sports book, right? They do have the sports book apps on the phone and everything like we do in Phoenix. But apparently you have to be within two. blocks of the ballpark in order to make bets like geographically you have to be within two blocks

of the nationals ballpark or instead or an arena so I'm guessing where the capitals play or where the you know where the wizards play but yeah I thought that was really interesting and I mean an interesting concept when it comes to the gambling it you know on your phone right we here at Arizona we have the ability to just do it wherever right so yeah I just I just thought that's interesting because it feels like what they're trying to do is make you use it a bit more responsibly. Like, you have to get up and go to a game in order to use the gambling app. But it's just a weird rule for me. And shout out to anybody who might have an apartment within two blocks of national ballpark that just gets to kick it at home and gamble while everybody else

has to get up and walk in. But we're not just talking about winnings when it comes to gambling, Jesse, we were talking about winnings when it comes to free agency, because apparently Carlos Correa has hired super agent Scott Boris to represent him this, whenever free agency resumes, whenever the season resumes. And I guess I'd have to ask, are you surprised by that move? Are you more surprised that he hadn't already hired Boris up to this point? I feel like at this point, I just assume that Scott Boris is everyone's agent. That's the exact one's my name. If you're going to make over $100 million on your next contract, you probably are going to have Scott Boris as your agent. Yeah, which is, I mean, I still don't fully understand, like, what Scott Boris brings to the table that other agents don't.

I mean, he's obviously, like, he's obviously good at what he does and there's a reason that we all know his name. But I just get the feeling that there are other very competent baseball agents out there who's, names we just don't know. All we know is Scott. You might not have to pay as much in order to get them to do it for you. It's probably a pretty hefty commission that Scott Boris takes, I'm going to guess, just given all of his name credibility and everything. So, yeah, I don't know.

You're absolutely right about that. And that's a really weird thing when it comes to baseball because I don't really know. Like, we know other agents names. There's other super agents and other sports and stuff. But Scott Boris is like, it's this weird, like, you're calling in the club. or something. You know what I mean? Yeah. You want an extra 20% added onto your contract. You go to Scott Boris. We had this with Paul Goldschmidt. I mean, I don't know if you had the same feelings of impending doom as I did.

At the time, Paul Goldschmidt obviously was leaving the team. We kind of knew that. Fans wanted the team to kind of pony up and pay him his money and keep him here. But then, you know, during that final year of his contract, he hired Scott Boris as his agent. And it was like, Like the minute that you saw that, you know that this player is going for for it all. They want all the money. They give me all the money at that point, right? And so that's the thing about Boris being involved is if you're talking about a player that's still on your team, he's not going to be on your team any longer if he hired Scott Boris. Yeah, Scott Boris is totally, I mean, that's the one thing you know for absolute certain is that if he's the agent,

he's not going to have his player sign an extension. They're going to test free agency. They're going to try to push the envelope on how much money they can possibly get. So, but yeah. And maybe that's what he's good at. Maybe the thing that he's good at is making to your team, making it seem like, you know, we're giving you a chance to be in on this guy, right? Like they're making you to kind of feel special.

But, you know, again, it's all the approach. all the games that he plays. And I just have to wonder if at times he's good for the game of baseball. You know, and I just say that because we have all of these problems with contracts and escalating, you know, uh, uh,

deals, things getting like really, really out of control. But then again, when you look back on, when you look back upon it, uh, in retrospect,

some of the huge deals don't seem so crazy once we get five years down the road, which is why we see like the Fernand, Tatis deal and some of those other deals where guys are getting 10 years plus and it and it seems insane to give any athlete that much time, how much guaranteed money. It is. I mean, there is a difference between, you know, giving Tatis 10 years and giving other guys 10 years because, you know, I mean, Tatis is under team control for a number of years already.

And so you're basically just buying out those years and then tacking some years on at the end. Sure. Whereas Carlos Correa, I mean, if you signed Carlos Correa to a 10. 10-year contract. That's literally 10 years, right, that he wouldn't be on your team, but he is going to be on your team. And the history of these contracts is still kind of dicey. I mean, if you look back on, you know, the mega contracts that have been given out in recent years, it's still the track record is not great. I mean, Albert Pujols, that deals a disaster.

Miguel Cabrera, the Tigers give him a ton of money. He really hasn't been productive for, you know, five or six years at this point. And the list goes on. There's just not that many big-name guys that have panned out. Maybe more so on the pitching side. I don't think the nationals regret Max Scherzer. No, no. But like Miguel Cabrera, it's funny you say that because every time he would like

be in the lineup on a game, I remember like at least last season going, oh, he still plays. Right. That's such a weird way. Because you don't hear about him because he's not good anymore. Right. Right. I mean, pool holes at least people talk about how long he's played the game.

Whenever he does anything good, people can't stop getting excited about it. He gets a single in a game and people are like, look it. He was pretty good for the Dodgers because of course he was, right? The moment anyone goes to the Dodgers, all of a sudden, they just, they rediscover new talents, but such is life. Well, and I mean, even, you know, I have a piece up that I recently did on go p.nx.com, which, by the way, if you haven't signed up to become a member, go sign up to become an annual member.

With that annual membership, you'll get a free t-shirt over at phnxlacker.com, and you'll get our wonderful writings. You'll get Jesse's writings, you'll get my mediocre writings, you'll get all of that stuff, plus other content. You'll get access to our members-only Discord

and members-only discounts over at the PHNXLocker.com. But Jesse, on the article about Yismani Tomas, even now at this point, writing about his $68.5 million deal made me kind of feel, to feel like it's not as bad now. Not to say the deal wasn't bad or the fact that he was so unproductive and such a waste of money and such a gamble that they took that didn't pay off.

It's just at this point, $68.5 million didn't, doesn't seem as much like as much money as it did when they gave it to him six years ago. So, I mean, with baseball, these contracts move fast and we go from stuff seeming overvalued to that kind of being the standard MSRP on a baseball player. if you will. Yeah, well, have you been grocery shopping lately, Derek? Prices are going up across the board right now. So, yeah, you're right. 68 million might feel like pocket change in a few years. It's when you were getting mad when milk went up to $3 a gallon, but now it's $6 a gallon

and you're like, what the hell was I even mad about back then? Yeah. But again, go draft kings, excuse me, go to go PHNX.com. We'll talk about draftings again later. But you can go to go phnx.com sign up to become a member and that way you don't miss any of our fun stuff coming out on go p hnx hope you guys are enjoying the content we appreciate those of you that all have already signed up to become a member of the family but there there are families in baseball jesse not just the teams not just the actual families but the the hall of fame the baseball writers of america hall of fame their vote will be revealed in about a week from now for 2022 it appears that David Ortiz, who's on the ballot for the first time, may make it in on his first,

uh, first ballot's going to be, it looks like it might be a close call, but, uh, it appears that the, the usual suspects of, uh, you know, being historically important players, but not wanting to vote them into the Hall of Fame due to their scandals or their, uh, cheating connections or whatever people want to say about these individuals, but Kurt Schillings, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Arodd all appear. to have missed again. And I guess I got to get your thoughts on this. I know we've, we've talked about this, especially with Kurt Schilling recently, we talked about this, but I just feel like I am slowly, not slowly, I mean, I guess kind of pretty quickly with the

recent comments by Jeff Passon and some other folks. I'm getting more and more on board with this thought of why are we keeping these guys out? Yeah, it's, I don't know. I, I don't know. I think at this point pretty much, I think all the names that you mentioned should make it to the Hall of Fame at some point. David Ortiz is one guy that I think has a pretty decent shot to do it. It's going to be a close call for him. But yeah, these three names, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Kurt Schilling. I mean, they all have a bit of an ugly past.

Or in the case of Schilling, maybe it's more an ugly present. And, and, yeah, I mean, it's just off-putting for people. And, and yeah, the numbers just don't seem to work out. Kurt Schilling last year hit a high watermark of 71.1%. And he just continues to, you know, go on social media and say things. And that just continues to push people away from him. It says right now he's tracking at 59.6% and has lost a net. of 21 votes from those who voted for him last year.

This is this is coming from CBS sports. So I mean, that's all just because he said some stuff. I'll be going to say some stuff. I'll just get stop running his mouth. I think that is ridiculous, though. If you think Kurt Dilling is a Hall of Famer last year and now you do not think he's a Hall of Famer. Yeah. Yeah.

Like you can't, you just cannot make that decision as a voter. And we played the clip from Jeff Passon a few weeks ago where he said, you know as writers it is not our job to uh you know to decide who is morally upright enough he literally said that it's we shouldn't be the moral arbiters of this and like that has lived in my head since he said it because he's so right i mean again you can say what you want about the other three that we brought up right for instance very bonds roger clemens alice rodriguez they've all had ties to steroid scandals. And if you really want to look at it from the perspective of them cheating, that's cheating, right?

The performance enhancing drugs at that point were banned from the sport. This wasn't a time when everything was kind of okay. They may have played in that time, but they also played in a time where players were regularly tested at one point. And they got to a point where they were actually deceiving the system just so that they could continue to take performance enhancing drugs. and not get caught, right? But the Kurt Schilling thing, that's just, again, just because he's a piece of shit and you don't like the way he, his political stance or other, you know, things that he's said, then that's, I mean, that's just not enough, in my opinion, for you to keep him out of the Hall of Fame.

It's weird that his votes have regressed and that he doesn't have as many votes as he once did. And again, it's just this, like, again, And it's thinking about David Ortiz, right, who's been an amazing ambassador for the game of baseball. He's beloved. He's had amazing success. And he was part of the Boston Red Sox team that was very historically important for that franchise, right? The breaking the curse and winning those World Series and and elevating the Boston Red Sox to being one of the top franchises of baseball. Yeah.

I don't get this whole thing of like deciding when someone should go in. so that their importance in the game is adequately determined, right? You're not a first ballot Hall of Fame or you're like a second ballot Hall of Famer, right? Like you'll get in on your second thing, but you're not important enough to be on the first. Or, you know, again, like these other guys, you said it. There's a good chance. Schillingbonds, Clemens, Rodriguez, they're all going to make it into the Hall of Fame

eventually. It's just this weird game of these baseball writers now being able to I guess, you know, punish them for their actions now and make them wait an excessive amount of time. Like, no, you didn't do it right. So you're going to have to wait like almost the whole full period of time before you get in. But we'll get you in eventually. Like this whole thing, this whole process is ridiculous to me. And again, I really think that we need to change our process on this over to being more about what they did as a baseball player on the field and less about.

all of this other stuff. I remember again, again, just, I'm sorry, sorry to cut you off, but maybe just, maybe just, maybe just tell the bad history too, right? Like, why do we shy away from it, even in historical, uh, context, even in a museum, right? There's, there's, like, stuff, you know, from bad things that have happened in history in a museum. And it's important to have it in there so that it can tell you the context of that time when that thing happened, why it was important.

And I feel like the same thing here with Bonds and Clemens and Rodriguez, like, you can still have them in there. And it doesn't have to be an asterisk, as everybody says with, you know, bonds. It can literally just be like on the plaque later in their career. Their career was marred by controversy due to involvement with performance enhancing drugs. Like, just tell the whole story, but it doesn't mean that their story doesn't need to be part of the Hall of Fame. And it also doesn't need to be, you kind of like whitewashed where it's just the good stuff and the important. stuff and not the bad stuff. Let's let's talk about all, you know, let's put it all out there. So you want to put plaques in Cooperstown but like have information on them about how the players cheated?

Have you, well, have you seen Cooperstown though? I mean, it's not like it's just like their name on a plaque and then like this guy hit 500 home runs. It's not like that. You know what I mean? There's there is a lot of historical context in Cooperstown that tells the story of baseball. And it goes past past just the great players. you know, there's a lot of history there. And again, I guess, I guess my thing is, is like,

it doesn't also need to be this huge deal where you make his career all about that either, right? Barry Bonds was one of the greatest baseball players to ever play the game, performance enhancing drugs or not, right? I mean, you can say what you want, but that man, you couldn't pitch to him in the strike zone without him sending the ball five miles. So you can use performance enhancing drugs to get strutely. all you want. But at the end of the day, you still need to hit a baseball. You still need to hit it the right way. And you still need to be, you know, very successful in other ways to

be out there performing at the level that he did. I just, I get it. I get why people still want to honor everyone that did it the right way. I just, I just don't think that you need to, again, shy away from the actual history of it, I guess is my. my take on it. If you, if you want them to be punished for their actions, then tie them to those actions for the rest of their lives, you know, like, here's this great thing that this guy did, but also later in his career, you know, there was some controversy, right? That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying like, you need to be like, hey, here's Roger Clemens. He was also a cheater. You know, like, it's not like that. You know, you could technically just put the information in there.

you know and i i i i guess i guess that's the way i see it because i go to museums and i go to things and it's not all good it's not all positive you know sometimes you're reading the description on a painting and it tells you how the painter committed suicide after that or something and you're like oh my god like that's yeah terrible i you just what a downer on this beautiful piece of art that you i was just looking at but that's the reality of the situation and you know you need to be informed so i i I don't know. I don't like just taking the bad parts and kind of scraping them off in the trash like they're fat that you got off a mistake, you know. That's me. You think you think if I use performance enhancing drugs that I would be able to hit like Barry Bonds, Derek? Are you implying that's not necessarily true? I'm implying that Nick Bacoro, that's a different story. If you get Nick Bacoro on some performance of anti-drugs, that guy might be a 10-time All-Star by this point. I don't know. I've just seen that dude Rake and that's a different story.

story, but you, Jesse Friedman, I don't know, not so much. And that goes the same for me, probably doubly for me as well. I mean, I couldn't hit in high school. I played one year of and people would assume like, oh, you must be, you must have really played baseball in high school and intramural, you know, you must have been all over it. And I'm like, yeah, I played, I played Little League for like two years and I sucked, Derek. I was so bad. And then several years later, I had this great idea to try to play baseball in high school as a freshman with like a bunch of juniors and seniors. And I could field, but I really couldn't hit to save my life. And I don't know.

I don't think it matters what kind of drugs I'm on. I think I'm just going to swing and miss no matter what. You have to make contact in order for the enhanced strength to really take effect. So we'll work on your contact first and then we'll worry about the power. We'll get the contact on board. There we go. You guys need to get on board with the Draft King Sportsbook app. Go download the Draft King Sportsbook app now.

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and I still won $75 on my $10 bet. So, you know, even on a bad day, you could still walk away with money in your pocket. I hate to say this about the Cardinals because it was my favorite line to say about the debacks and the Coyotes. But remember, just because they lose, you don't have to lose. Remember, draft King's a safe, secure, and reliable. Best of all, you can deposit withdraw your cash whenever you want. Don't forget, go download that Drag King's Sportsbook app now and use our promo code of PHNX, and you'll get all that good stuff for new customers.

21 and over only, Arizona only gambling problem. Dot 1-800 next step. New customers only eligibility restrictions apply. See draftkings.com slash sportsbook for details. Jesse, I know we don't argue and we don't disagree very much, but I think that we need to, like force it, right? Like, let's, let's create some fake arguments.

Let's create controversy. Controversy creates cash. But actually, we do have a topic that we both kind of do disagree on just a little bit. And I figure now is the time to kind of debate it since we have the season's coming. We don't have much time once the season starts. So now is the time for us to debate things that we have no control over. And I think a topic we should debate is the upcoming universal designated hitter rule that's coming to baseball because it's inevitable.

It feels like of all of these negotiations during the lockout, the one thing that both sides, maybe the only thing that both sides can agree on is that they want the universal DH. And me being a guy that has watched baseball for as long as I have, I have to say, I understand the appeal of the DH. Okay. I am a fan of the long ball, just like everybody is. Nobody wants to watch pitchers who hit 105, go up there and try.

struggle. By the way, that's, that's a good batting average for a pitcher, by the way. You might, if you hit above 150, you might win a silver slugger award. Who knows? All I'll say is, is that I kind of already miss the strategy. It hasn't even gone away yet. I already missed the strategy of making pitchers hit. So let's let's talk about this, Jesse. I know you're a pro-DH, obviously, for all the affirmation. mentioned reasons, right? I am pro-D-H. And not, I wouldn't say I'm super, super passionate about it because I acknowledge, you know,

the history and there is something kind of fun from a strategy standpoint of, you know, teams having to find a workaround, whether it be pinch hitting, figuring out when to pinch hit for your pitcher or, or yeah, just really trying to make sure that your pitchers know how to lay down a sacrifice bunt. It seems like that's something Diamondback. pitchers have kind of struggled at with uh over the over these last few years but i keep going back to a story from a little bit a little bit less than a year ago now uh last march zach gallon suffered a hairline stress fracture in his forearm and he told reporters that it first happened he first

started feeling the effects of it when he was swinging a baseball bat and when those kinds of things happen and this is far from the only story like that it's it's hard it's like why is Zach Gallen not pitching because he was practicing this other thing that like no one really cares about him doing. And there's, and there's really no situation in other sports where we, where we test a player's ability to do something that they're just not really there for. Right.

Like, like, if you're a center in the NBA, there's no like, I don't, I mean, I guess I can't even say three point shooting competition because now all these centers shoot three cointers, that's kind of thing. But, but you get the idea. Like, we don't normally put players in a position where they're not going to shine their foremost skills, like the reason that they're there. And so I think it's just not a very marketable product for baseball when it's pitcher against pitcher. And, you know, as much as we love to talk about the few pitchers that do hit well, Madison Bumgarner's career stats are still super crappy. Like, he's not a good hitter. He's just he's just a markedly better hitter than most other pitchers.

And so, so yeah, I just, I don't think it's a marketable product, and I don't want to see more stories like Zach Gallen where pitchers fall to injury because they were hitting, because they were taking batting practice. I feel like I already lost this debate because that Zach Gallen argument is one that I cannot. I can't argue against. And I mean, it's something that directly impacted our team. So I think back upon just how much I enjoyed watching certain playoff games. You know, when I was younger and I was hooked on the game of baseball. And I felt like such a big part of that was this strategy, especially when teams had really good pitching and really good relievers. So when it came time to needing that extra offense, it was like a struggle to have to pull these relievers or this good pitcher out of the game.

in order to pinch hit for them because there's such a liability at the plate and they really can't be productive and at this point in the game they might have two runners on base it might be down by a run or something like that there's just lots of there's there is lots of strategy i feel like that goes out of the window due to removing this from the game and what you said is valid i mean most of the time the strategy is working around this one piece in your lineup that you know can't hit right So it's like, oh, if we get down there where we can, we get a few men on and like maybe one out, like the last thing we want to do is risk a pitcher going there and hitting into the double, you know, double play and ending the inning, right?

So, and I, it's weird, but video games also impacted this for me. I played, you know, like, I really got into baseball video games when they transitioned over from, I guess like the generation of like the Super Nintendo type games where things were kind of basic. they had you know some of the same concepts and and things from the game of baseball but stuff was missing due to the limitations of the video game systems at that time once we started getting into more advanced systems and that stuff started to actually be a factor and you had to do things like warm up your players in the bullpen and decide when you get them and all of this other stuff that's that's when it got too real you don't you know yeah no you're like i don't want to play i have to warm up my relievers like come on right no that that was for me i guess that that part was that that part was that was like for a small period of time, I really enjoyed that because of the realism of it, because I felt like, oh my God, video games are getting so advanced at this point, right? So, and then that just, that just kind of solidified my love for that strategy because I played the hell out of baseball video.

I mean, I finished multiple seasons. And I'm talking about the full 162 game season where I did not skip a game on the schedule, Jesse. I played every game on some of those seasons. This is what the MLB, the show will do to you. It just takes it to another level. But this is video games and these are feelings I had and these are nothing that aren't the real world ramifications of it. To be honest, the common fan doesn't like the pitcher's hitting.

They don't understand that they would much rather see somebody that's good at hitting. I think most baseball fans would too, not to mention the fact that it really opens up opportunity on half of the league to have a good player on their team that can hit really well that can't. really field. You know, it's a goddamn shame that this didn't happen six years ago when Yasmani Tomas was mashing and they could have brought him up. I don't know if Yassmani Tomas is even a good enough hitter to even putting him there. He would have been a more possible player some years. You say that.

You say that. But 31 home runs would look pretty good on this team in 2021, Jesse. That's all I'm saying is 31 home runs with nearly 90 RBI. Like, yes, Manny Tomas's other seasons offensively were not, we're not nearly that good. But I don't even think I addressed it in the piece that I wrote. But to be honest, the biggest part there problem there with Jismani was just the not the lack of progression, right? And I think that's what they look for in baseball players. You can struggle all you want, right?

You can be a Josh Van Meter at the plate where people, you know, comment online about how they, they don't want to see them hit and all this stuff. but honestly in a short period of time van meter is one of those guys that actually kind of has gotten better and you know that's even if it's small incremental you know improvements you what you want to see and if if what you're seeing is the opposite that's not good you know especially when you have 70 million dollars invested into this guy over the next six years but please don't make me revisit the osmani tomas deal anymore because that's yeah all right i think i think we can agree uh your zach gallant um argument there cut me to the core and probably made the most sense as to the reason why we shouldn't have these guys doing that. I will say that that could happen at any point though, right? Yeah, that's very fair. Very fair. Zach Gallen, I understand that happened, but it could have honestly happened while he was throwing.

It could have happened when he's at home and falls down or does something stupid, right? Yeah. You never know how. happens all the time. So I'm with you. I don't think that's like like the end all be all argument for this thing. But like you said, practicing bunting, taking time in the in the, you know, in the cages, taking actual bats and games, these are all things that, yeah, if a pitcher is a delicate thing that we want to make sure can stay healthy to do what we want him to do, which is throw the ball, then yeah, taking them out of the equation of hitting is probably for the best.

There's just too many variables for hitting that can cause injury, getting hit by a pitch, you know, bunting and cracking your forearm apparently while you're bunting, you know, like things like that all are very real possibilities. And yeah, all right, I lost this one, but I'll be back. I didn't really have my heart in it anyway. I won't lie. It's the DH. You know, I can't be against, you know, the game being more exciting.

and at this point, they're already screwing up the season starting in 2022. So I guess we'll need to do whatever we can to make it as exciting as possible to get people back. But we thank you guys so much for listening to the show. You can obviously follow us on Twitter. I'm at K-Mad-Kman with a K. Jesse is at Jesse N Friedman. Our show is at PHNX underscore D-Backs. But of course, all roads lead to at PHNX underscore Sports.

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