PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - BREAKING NEWS: The Arizona Diamondbacks trade Daulton Varsho to the Blue Jays for Gabriel Moreno

Episode Date: December 23, 2022

The D-backs did some last-minute Christmas shopping and completed a stunning trade with the Toronto Blue Jays that will send outfielder Daulton Varsho with all of his tools to Canada in exchange for Gabriel Moreno, the number three prospect in MLB, and Lourdes Gurriel Jr. Get our immediate reaction to this trade and our thoughts on who we feel may have won this deal.BUY D-BACKS TICKETS HERE: https://gametime.hnyj8s.net/c/3442941/1410622/10874 SUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtubeALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsports PHNX: Join us at the Inaugural PHNX Tee Party, presented by Four Peaks Brewing Co., at Dobson Ranch Golf Course!We are renting out the entire driving range! Come hang with Big Drive Energy, the PHNX crew and fellow Diehards for a night of golf, food, drinks, contests, prizes, and more. Our PHNX Suns crew will be hosting a watch party for the Suns vs. Timberwolves. Check out https://www.eventbrite.com/e/phnx-tee-party-at-dobson-ranch-tickets-481918139127 to reserve your spot right now! And for our Diehards, check Discord for your special link where you’ll save 20% on this awesome event!DraftKings: Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now (https://bit.ly/3Jl1dMX), use promo code PHNX and make your first deposit of FIVE DOLLARS and get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in FREE BETS INSTANTLY! For every leg you add you can boost your winnings up to ONE HUNDRED percent!If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisiscounseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visitOPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA).21+ (18+ WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. Min. $5 deposit required. Eligibility restrictions apply. See http://draftkings.com/sportsbook for details.OGeez!: Enter the “Flavoring Life” sweepstakes. One winner will receive 3 bags of OGeez, an OGeez! Hat, a PHNX shirt of your choice, and a PHNX annual membership. Sign up at gophnx.com or visit https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfIplqDYsxYeiotn5Zc6hRahaX0a5qG99eHVzkhOlGZDRdgUA/viewform. Must be 21 years or older to purchase.Underdog Fantasy: Sign up for Underdog Fantasy today! Go to the link https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-phnx and use promo code “PHNX” to receive a deposit match up to $100Four Peaks: Enter to win the “Toast of the Month” sweepstakes to win a $50 Four Peaks gift card, a PHNX shirt of your choice, and a PHNX annual membership. Go to goPHNX.Com or visit https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfOabxo8KQxOWwn9wTilMBuTMAJdrL0CaH9lzfuJqgKN9vfSg/viewform Must be 21 or older. Enjoy responsibly. Bad Birdie: Use code “PHNXSPORTS15” for 15% off your next order https://glnk.io/7qnq/phnx-sportsMor Furniture: Save up to 50% all through the holidays! Check out https://morfurniture.comLiquid Death: Get free shipping on all water and merch at https://LiquidDeath.com/PHNX FOCO: FOCO has you covered with the best Arizona Merchandise. Head on over to foco.com. For all non pre-sale items use the promo code “PHNX” for 10% offWhen you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Let's go. Welcome in to an emergency podcast edition of the PHNXT Backs podcast, brought to you by the fine folks of the Drafking Sportsbook app and the MLB Hot Stove. I am your head chef, occasionally known as Derek Montia. This is my sous chef, the one and only Jesse Friedman. Jesse, Dalton Varshot and all of his tools are off to Toronto in exchange for what many people calling an absolute fleecing in what the debacks are getting in return. And it's obviously one of the things we're very excited about. It is the name we've talked about. And catcher, Gabrielle Moreno. What a day. What a day. Of course, this inevitably happened after we recorded our audio podcast earlier today. It was only a matter of time before something like this went down. But this is a move. So if you go back and listen to some of our past shows, we didn't talk about

this swap in particular, we actually talked about an Alec Thomas for Gabby Moreno swap, which of course wound up ultimately not working out, which we didn't necessarily expect it would happen anyway. But this is a deal. I guess what I'm saying is this is a deal, the structure of this deal where the Blue Jays give up one of their catchers and the Diamondbacks backs give up one of their outfielders, it's a structure that has made sense on paper for a long time, right? The Blue Jays have way too many catchers. The D-backs have way too many outfielders. This is a move that makes a lot of sense for both sides where each team is trading out of a surplus. And they're giving up a really, really good player.

In the case of the Blue Jays, I guess they're giving up a couple of good players with Gurriel included in this as well. But yeah, both teams are dealing from a place of strength and they're filling a gap on their team that is really a hole for them. And that's what catcher has sort of been in some ways for the debacks. Carson Kelly has certainly been serviceable for them. but Gabby Moreno is on another level as far as what people expect he could be moving forward. He is the third or fourth prospect in all of MLB, according to whichever prospect website you subscribe to. But regardless, one of the best prospects in MLB. Last season in the majors, he hit 319, 356, 377, which I'm not really that worried about with a 319 batting average, and a 733 OPS.

So, but yeah, definitely somebody that can add to the offense, somebody that just made his debut. It's interesting because Mike Hazen obviously just said in the past that they wouldn't be trading for anybody that is a prospect anymore. They're going for major league ready guys. And to be honest, Moreno is just that. Like he just fits the criteria, much like Corbyn Carroll, much like Alec Thomas.

He's just made his debut in baseball, but that's the great part about it. he fits that timeline with those guys so incredibly well that the future of this team is so bright with him behind the plate. Yeah, Gabby Moreno, I mean, like, yeah, let's talk about this guy. If you look at baseball America's mid-season top 100 prospects list, Gabby Moreno is number three. He's two spots ahead of Diamondbacks outfielder Corbyn Carroll, who of course we've spent all kinds of time raving about for very good reasons.

Corbyn Carroll arguably could be even the best prospect in baseball, but Gabby Moreno is right up there. And you have to think about like from the Diamondbacks perspective, Corbyn Carroll was and has always been untouchable, right? We knew that they were looking to deal an outfielder. Corbin Carroll was not part of that group that they were looking to deal because he has so much value to the debacks moving forward. And frankly, guys in that top five, that top 10 list of prospects across all of baseball, you almost never see. those guys traded, right? It is extremely rare to see a player of Corby Carroll's caliber or in this case of Gabby Moreno's caliber. And you have to understand, like, that's how well Gabby Moreno is

viewed in the eyes of evaluators. Not only did he hit 320 last year upon arrival to the majors, which granted, it's only 25 games. It's a pretty small sample. You said the 377 slugging percentage. His power hasn't really translated to the big leagues. And I'm not sure he's necessarily going to be, you know, a 20 or 25 homer guy at any point. But he is a very, very good defender behind home play. He's the kind of guy where even if he didn't hit, he would probably have a long major league career ahead of him just because of what he does defensively.

And the fact that he is known to be the most athletic catcher who has come up since J.T. Rome, Uto, I believe that's what Fangraphs wrote about Gabby Moreno. You talk about that, you talk about just how athletic he is in general. It's compelling. It's compelling. And this is, I mean, if you're looking for a catcher of the future that the diamondbacks could have, you're not going to find anyone better who is available than Gabby Moreno. It's really as simple as that.

It's an absolute home run. Now, we're going to get to the heartbreaking nature of Dalton Varsho no longer being part of this team. But before that, we want to make sure everybody's fully excited about this trade because Gabby Moreno is not the only part of this trade. Right, Jesse? We are also getting back, Lordeus Guriel in this trade. trade, which honestly is an incredibly talented young player himself. And I mean, by no means is he a throw in the man slash he hit 291, 343 400 last year for the Toronto Blue Jays. And honestly, is is kind of a great part of this trade. He plays left field shortstop and second base. So he's a versatile player,

which we know Tori Lovolo absolutely loves guys like that. And honestly, Dalton Varshow is, is is that his versatility is one of the things we're losing in this trade and we're getting that back in goryl yeah guriel is is a is a big addition to the trade for the debacks for sure um it'll be interesting to see how the diamondbacks plan on using gurriel every day like you said defensively last year he played mostly left field uh which the dbacks right wasn't wasn't the purpose of this deal to trade an outfielder right and make it so you didn't have as many outfielers on the roster uh in some sense it's a little it's a little it's a little it's a little confusing, right?

Guriel does that right-handed instead of left-handed. So I guess that's good. There is that. But yeah, he's also played a lot of infield in the past as well. I don't think he's a shortstop. I think you probably want him more so at second base. That's more of a natural position for him, maybe some third base as well. I've received some, I need to confirm this.

I've gotten some conflicting information as far as how many years Gurriel is under control for. Jeff Passon in his article wrote that Gurriel is under control through 2024, but I've also read other articles that say that he's actually only under control through 2023. So we'll do our best. Maybe while we're on the air here, we can get a firm answer on that. But either way, Gurriel is not a long-term asset.

Baseball reference has an arbitration eligible in 2024, a free agent in 2025. Right, which is, yeah, that's what baseball reference has. But if you look at other websites, they seem to indicate differently. So I'm inclined to go with what baseball reference and Jeff Passen had in his article. But either way, Gurriel is not like, he's not a long-term asset for the team, right? So I think there's a world in which maybe you would look to trade Gurriel. Maybe the Diamondbacks are going to continue to make moves. And maybe he's not someone who actually winds up staying with the team long term.

But he does bat right-handed. And he could certainly give some valuable innings at a number of different positions for the team next year. We're getting confirmation from our investigators in the chat that say it's only until 2023. Its contract is one more year, but yes, arbitration year after. So, yeah, I believe them over any of these other guys, Jesse. I'm just telling you. I believe Scott Carter and Alex's year over anybody else. But I am excited for this return.

You can't help but wonder what this does for Carson Kelly. Carson Kelly now, I mean, is he going to play split time with someone like Gabby Moreno? Is he going to be okay being a backup catcher? That seems a bit doubtful. So it makes me wonder if the debacks are now going to potentially package Carson Kelly in a trade for maybe another bullpen arm or somebody that can continue to assist with their positional needs at this point. I'll just, I'll just play. I'll just keep it simple here. I think I would be very surprised if Carson Kelly was still on the diamond backs for opening day of 2023.

Gabby Moreno is a guy you're going to invest in fully. And Carson Kelly is frankly too good and too valuable the player to have on your roster behind Gabby Moreno. I just don't think it makes sense. And he is a tradable asset, even though Carson Kelly isn't coming off a great year. You're not going to get as much for him as maybe you could have following the previous season or other good years that he's had in the past. I think it's pretty clear that Diamondbacks will look to move Carson Kelly in a trade at this point. Well, when you talk about Gabby Moreno being very good, he can hit the ball. ball hard. And when I say he can hit the ball hard, he can fucking hit the ball hard, Jesse.

Watch this. Bang. Yeah, what is that? That's the, that's the ball embedded in the outfield wall, just embedded right in that shadow of that fan's hand, right there in the outfield wall. That's a monster, Jesse. Someone that can hit the ball that hard, uh, you want on your side for sure. Yeah, that's, that's the big, that's the biggest tool for sure with Gabby Moreno. Fan Graf's had him as a current 60 on the 20 to 80 scouting scale with his hit tool with potential for 70, which is a number that you don't see thrown around very often by scouts. That's the thing that you're getting out of Gabby Moreno. If you want to find a guy who is about as sure of a thing to hit 300 as you're going to find.

And obviously he's 22 years old and there's still some, you know, maybe some growing pains in his future. But you're not going to find many guys in particular at the catcher, position who have the hit tool that he does. If you look around the game and this is something we've talked about a lot is there aren't that many good catchers who can hit in baseball nowadays. It's really rare. We talked about Sean Murphy being a possible trade candidate for this team.

You know, there are some other great catchers in the game as well. You know, Will Smith, J.T. Romuto, who we talked about earlier. But other than that elite like four or five guys, which I think Gabby Moreno has a good chance to become a part of. There just aren't that many catchers in the game that are really game changers. And so as we kind of look on the flip side of this trade of like, oh my gosh, Dalton Varsho was a five war player last year, which is real, right? Like, Dalton Varsho was really freaking good last year.

It's real. But on the flip side, like having one of those elite few catchers is a bigger marginal advantage compared to other teams than having a outfielder as good as what Varsha was, at least on paper. Of course, you're betting on, you're betting on Moreno to actually become that player. And there's certainly going to be risks associated with that. You're absolutely right about that. But let's talk about some of the positives.

I mean, obviously, I'm heartbroken. We know the Dalton Bar Show had all the tools. And when I say all the tools, like all of those memes have to go in the trash now. How many tools there? He had all the tools. All of them, Jacob. Every single tool. Home Depot had no tools because,

Dalton Varsho had all the damn tools, and I hate the fact that he's the guy that had to go. However, with that being said and being a bit rational, the one thing about Dalton Varsho is because of his performance, because of his war, like Jesse pointed out, he's only going to get more and more expensive when it comes to arbitration, which he's closer than guys like Jake McCarthy and the other outfielders that they have, right? not to mention the fact that you talked in the past, you spoke about the difference between trading Jake McCarthy versus trading Alex, or Alex Thomas, and obviously it was about selling high versus selling low

in the case of Alex Thomas versus McCarthy. Now, with Dalton Varshot, you got a question if there's ever going to be a time where his value is higher than it is right now, it might. It might, and he might live up to fulfilling everything that we have seen out of him this season and beyond. But it also feels a little unlikely.

Like it feels like there's a good chance, like that this may have been one of his best seasons as far as War goes. And maybe this is the perfect time for people to sell or for a team to sell on him, right? I don't know. Yeah. We don't know the future. And it sucks to lose somebody that was as valuable to this team as Dalton Varsha was. few, nobody, few guys on this team were as valuable as Dalton Varsho.

And that's the one part about this trade that at least the return seems fulfilling for the loss. We talked about some potential trades to Houston and other teams. And no matter what, it seemed very unlikely that they would get the caliber of player in return that they would be giving up in Dalton Varsho because Varsh doesn't get that respect that he deserves. People don't look at those numbers and realize how valuable he was to the DBAX. and they don't realize like that a one-for-one trade with some of these superstar players is actually more fair than you might think it is, right? So the fact that the Diamondbacks were able to get back a return that fits their timeline so

perfectly and benefits both teams, both the Blue Jays in receiving a caliber player of Varsho and what the Diamondbacks get back as far as a guy like Gabby Moreno that fits their timeline with their young players so perfectly as well. It just, it was the trade that made the most sense. We've talked about it several times prior to this. So it's wild that like, prophetically, you know, this kept being a topic we dwelled on, this connection between Toronto and Arizona. And a trade rumor, MLB trade rumors actually said the same thing we said, which is there's,

there's no report from John Heyman or Jeff Passon that these two teams are connected. but logically it makes the most sense considering the surplus of what each team has and what they would be giving up, right? Like the Diamondbacks realistically are still looking at a timeline of being competitive a bit further out than the 2023 season. If it happens this season, that's fantastic. But I think realistically internally, they're looking at more of 2024, 2025, whereas the Toronto Blue Jays might right now be looking at a more immediate time frame as far as their success. They have a young, exciting team up there. And again, Dalton Varsho fits the timeline that they have going on with their young team up there versus, you know, realistically their surplus of catchers that they have that they would have a hard time getting playing time for all these guys. Yeah, I mean, I think it's important that we recognize like just how good of a player, Dalton Varsho is.

And frankly, if anyone, if I'm being honest, if anyone looks at this trade and thinks the Diamondbacks like fleeced the Blue Jays in this deal, you probably. don't have a good enough understanding of just how good Dalton Varshow was last year. And I leave us alone, Jesse. Stop attacking us. We just want to live our lives. Okay. He is one of the most underappreciated players in all of baseball. According to, and it's funny, I mean, we literally did our report cards on Dalton Varshow two days ago. I said we had to. I was like, we have to. And text messages privately on the show, I was like, Jesse, we got to do this. He's going to be gone soon. And I didn't know.

I thought we had more time. I thought we had more time than this. This was so short. We didn't even make it to Christmas. We didn't even make it to Christmas. But yeah, all that to say, Dalton Varsho is a very, very, very good player. And the Blue Jays are getting a more sure thing in this trade than the Diamondbacks are.

Right. Dalton Varsho was basically a five war player last year and is probably only going to get better. There's some potential for him to benefit from the shift. as well from the shift restrictions that are going into place in 2023. We talked about a lot. So we have to be real about like, okay, this is a bit of a gamble for the debacks. The debacks are betting on Gabby Moreno being a franchise catcher being, you know, a guy who could make all-star teams.

Jeff Passon called him an all-star caliber talent earlier today. The debacks are betting on Gabby Moreno becoming that guy. And if he doesn't become that guy, which we have to be realistic, there is a chance that that doesn't happen. He's only played 25 games in the big leagues. This deal could go south for the debacks pretty quickly, but I think- Why are you like this? What are you doing? What are you doing right now? I'm being, I'm being, Jesse. I'm being- What about, Jesse? I know, I know somebody has to live in reality, Jesse, but can you just get a day? Why do you have to bring me down to your reality?

Thank you, Jacob for being, you know, the voice of reason here, uh, because I was, I was wondering what the hell you were doing. I don't need this right now. You're right. I mean, yes, you're right. Of course. But like we said about Varsho, the same thing could happen. Right. Yes, he's going to benefit greatly from the shift restrictions. But Varsho also had an incredible season that was unexpected, right. At the least, yeah, cut his mic. He's right. Gabriel's right. He says cut his mic. But Antoine Lockhart, I hope I'm saying your name right. And the comments said as a Jay's fan, I'm not happy. And I mean, right there, I think that says a lot. He asked, is Varsho really worth us giving up Moreno and Lord is?

So, like, this is the feeling on both sides. And I will tell you, confidently, yes, I will say that Dalton Varsho is just a guy that is really on the rise, I feel like. And again, he hasn't really stopped since the second half of 2021. All he needs is an opportunity, I feel like. And if he can be an everyday outfielder, he will continue to dazzle you with his incredible defense. and I think he's really coming around as a hitter. Once you get him around, maybe some of that beefy power you got up there in Toronto,

you might even see him increase his numbers. I don't know. Like we said, this is a gamble for both sides, to be honest. And I realistically think, yeah, the only reason why it makes sense for Toronto is because of their time frame. And, I mean,

it does definitely make more sense for the debacks. I know they had the surplus of catchers. They were going to trade one. Varsho is going to be one of those guys that, honestly makes them probably regret trading him, but I think the return, it's going to be like somebody said in the comments. I think it's going to be like Zach Gallen for Jazz Chisholm, where both teams love the player they got. But at the end of the day, it's going to be hard to say that the Diamondbacks didn't get the advantage in that trade. And at least for right now,

it seems to be hard to say the Diamondbacks didn't get the advantage in this trade. Yeah, I mean, if Gabby Moreno is the point. player that a lot of scouts expect him to be, then, I mean, he's the kind of player, like we said earlier, that rarely gets moved because there's just so much value there that it's like, what could you possibly get in return in order to justify dealing him? And I, I see we do have some, some Blue Jays fans here with us today. And I want to emphasize that Dalton Varshow, like we said, he's arguably the best outfield defender in baseball. And so if you're looking at his, you know, 740 OPS or whatever it was and wondering like, wow, we just traded, you know,

a top five prospect in baseball and Lordus Guriel Jr. for this guy. I understand looking at the numbers, it's going to feel weird. But once you see what he brings defensively and the fact that there really is room for improvement, like I don't necessarily think that Dalton Varsho was a finished product in, in 2022. He really put up very similar numbers to 2021. There's probably another gear that he can reach here. Jordan Binner in the comment says, I'm a Jays fan, curious if you guys like this. I will say that it's heartbreaking to lose Dalton Varsho. It really is.

But I do like this trade. And I kind of agree with Jesse. I think that the Diamondbacks got the advantage here, but who knows? I think that it's a very fair trade for what the return is, despite the fact that you guys are losing two young, very good players. for Varsh, but Varsh is just an incredibly versatile player who seems to do well no matter where you play him at. And that's a hard trait. The guy came up in the system as a catcher. At some point, it was decided that he was much more effective in the outfield than behind

the plate, but it's not like he still can't play catcher. And he can't, it's not like he can't play literally anywhere in the outfield. I wouldn't be surprised if Dalton Varsho could go pitch like three innings, scoreless. That wouldn't surprise me. either, right? But I will say that it's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out. And I definitely understand based on what the return. We were, we were a little hesitant to think that the Toronto Blue Jays would pull the trigger on a trade for Moreno. We thought maybe one of their other catchers might be a little bit more, right, what the, you know, what they're willing to part with. His future is very bright. And again, his, you're, you're talking about the number three

prospect in all of baseball in 2020. So the Diamondbacks really have exactly what they want is a young team that's very exciting. And kind of all right now for the most part are on a pretty similar timeline. You know, like I said, the one thing about Dalton Varsho is if he continued to be as good as he was, he was only going to get more expensive. And then there was going to be a point inevitably where the Diamondbacks would most likely, you know, be at a, you know, position to decide to pay a lot of money for him that they probably wouldn't be willing to pay. that he could get elsewhere. So I love this trade, to be honest. And I think, I honestly, I hope Blue Jays fans love him too,

because he is somebody that's incredible. Shout out to Ray Moreno in the chat, who's very excited that he doesn't have to buy a customized jersey anymore. And he said, again, I think he asked something about Carson being moved. I, yeah, I think we both think that this is an inevitability that Carson gets moved. And, you know, I knew that there were more. bullets in Mike Hazen's gun. I just wasn't expecting this, really. I think, I mean, even though we talked about it, like I wasn't expecting this to actually happen.

I wasn't expecting really Dalton Varsho at the end of the day to be part of a trade unless it was a big deal. Once we heard his name come up, though, like him and Alec Thomas's name, both came up in trade talks. You knew that they were, they at least were considering this kind of move.

So, you know, in the end, I'm glad he's not in the National League, especially glad he's not in the National League West, and I'm very excited to see him succeed in the American League for sure. Much like Jesse Friedman with his last-minute Christmas shopping, the Diamondbacks come in right at the last minute like a hero and bring us something to be excited about. I'm excited about this.

I'm pumped, Jesse. I don't know about you, but I'm very excited about this baby backs team that we're going to have out there on the outfield next season. it is i mean yeah like if you're thinking about this from a debacks perspective in terms of like what you lose in this trade like all those things we said about how great dalton varsho is like absolutely those things are all true but also if you believe that alec thomas is going to figure it out if you believe that jake mccarthy is for real those two combined with corbin carroll is still a really freaking good outfield like that's still a really really good

outfield moving forward. And you've got all of those guys under control for many, many, many more years. And you've got Gabby Moreno under control for six more seasons as well. It's going to be fascinating, Derek. One thing that is striking me is that the debacks have, I believe Gabby Moreno still has rookie eligibility. So you've got Gabby Moreno, you've got Corby and Carole. You've even maybe got Brandon fought in the mix for, I mean, and there's Dre Jameson. rookies of the year. All the rookies of the year on our team.

Injected. Injected. Injected in my veins. Now we'll see who's the real top prospect, Jesse. We'll see who's the real top prospect. That's right. They'll play it out on the field against each other every single night on the same team. This is very exciting.

The devax will play the Blue Jays, of course, next year as part of the new scheduling system. So it will be fun to see. Yeah, they will. Varsho for home run game in coming. Shut the fuck up, Jacob. Get out of here with your negativity. We don't need that right now. God damn it.

Oh, that's exciting, though. I'm very excited for this. I can't wait to see how things play out. And, of course, you know, we knew, we knew this was going to happen. The Diamondbacks weren't shopping around, I think, to just not pull a deal. But I think the obvious thing here was if they were going to get rid of a guy like Varsh with the war that he has and the value that he has, they were going to get back a hall that that made sense. And this makes more sense than I think any, even the Sean Murphy trade that we talked

about in the past. So like this by far seems to make the most sense. And yes, I mean, I would love to fire Jacob, but I think he's, I think he's my boss. I don't even know how that works. But anyway, what are your thoughts, Jesse, on this trade overall? One thing I want to mention that I think is important to recognize from a deback standpoint. And one of the big reasons that we thought Dalton Varsho might not be moved is that he hit 27 home runs last year. And the DBEX didn't have a lot of power hitters on this roster last year.

Outside of him and Christian Walker. Yeah, it's Barso and Christian Walker. That's really where all of those home runs came. If you look at the two players, the Debex got in return, Gabby Moreno is a fantastic hitter, right? But if you're looking for power, that's not really something he showed in the big leagues last year. And it's also something we've seen a little bit of it during his minor league career. A couple years ago, he had some decent power numbers. I think it was in AA.

But by and large, Moreno is not, doesn't project as like a 25 homer type of a guy. And neither does Lordus Gurriel Jr. I believe he had five home runs last year. So I do wonder if maybe this kind of forces the debacks hands in some way to maybe try to bring in, you know, like a DH type to come in and like, somebody who really has some power or whether that's a trade. Maybe maybe Gurriel isn't here to stay when it's all set and done. Maybe the Diamondbacks have another play in mind here where they can maybe add some power to

the roster. But I do think it's important to note that there's a pretty lofty hit tool up and down the roster. But in terms of power, there's not much that I think you could count on going into 2020. It's all right. It's all right. We'll just do the carousel thing. Jesse, everybody gets on and over.

There you go. You know that frustrates a pitcher more than home runs for sure. Home runs clear the board for him. He's ready to go and start over fresh. Not to be overshadowed by this trade, but the debacks also acquired Diego Castillo earlier. And that's a thing that happened. I mean, worth mentioning, of course, but not nearly the acquisition that Gabby Moreno is. Yeah, the Diego Castillo move is interesting.

Castillo was designated for assignment by the Pittsburgh Pirates a few days ago. So this wasn't obviously a high-profile trade, certainly nothing compared to the swap with the Toronto Blue Js. But Castillo hit lefties pretty well last year. He slugged over 500. That was his first taste of the big leagues. He's 25 years old. So I don't know if he's necessarily a guy that debacks are slotting in as a big league player for the entire season. there's some good depth there for the debacks and just you know making sure they have another bat

and a right-handed bat a guy who who performs better against lefties than righties which is generally something the debacks need even though now they've moved on from bar show there's still a little bit left-handed heavy so uh the acquisition does make sense for them antoine lockhart says that geryl was our best hitter for like two months in regards to the blue jays so that's very encouraging uh and pedro al cala says what about the board Bullpen still very iffy for me. I wouldn't be surprised. They have made some moves.

They're not very sexy, exciting moves. But Scott McGuff and Miguel Castro, obviously, are moves that they've made. There's still, I think, trades out there to be done. That's the one thing, especially after this trade, we definitely feel like there's more moves to be made. And to be honest, those moves are probably going to be centered around bullpen pieces, which, to be honest, at this point, would be fine. The last thing you wanted to do was trade somebody of Alec Thomas, Jake McCarthy, or Dalton Varshot's caliber for a minor league. Or not, I'm sorry, a relief pitcher, a bullpen arm. Yeah, like, no matter how good they are, unless you're talking about one of the best arms in the league, you're really not going to justify the return for somebody that's going to be an everyday player, the caliber of those guys, right?

So at this point, it feels a little likely that maybe, you know, like we said, Carson Kelly might be moved. There's some other potential candidates to be moved depending on what their, you know, plan is with, with Gurriel. So, again, it depends on on what direction the Diamondbacks are going to go with this, but there is a lot of versatility out there, especially from Lordus Guriel. So I don't know what direction they're going to go. It's just very exciting, Jesse. It's, it's again, we were terrified of this move, whichever outfielder it was. And now that it's happened, I feel okay with it because we got quite quite the return from the Toronto Blue Jays. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, like again, there's there's risk in all of that, like we said earlier with dealing a guy like Varshow. But if you were to, if you were to try to figure out like, okay, if we were to trade Dalton Varshow, you know, what, what's like, like an ideal trade package that you could get back, knowing that there's going to be risk in making that deal. But what's like the best you could realistically get? I think this move is a pretty darn good one.

Like if you're dealing a guy like of Varsho's caliber, it's going to be tough because Varsho is so good and he's already proven and his defense is so good that even if he doesn't improve with the bat, he's still like a four or five win player year in, year out as long as he defends this well. But yeah, Like Gabby Moreno, again, type of guy, the teams just don't trade. You just don't trade, especially a catcher, right, that is this highly touted and has already

had success in the big leagues. This isn't a guy who's a year or two away. We've seen some of those catchers dealt in the past. This is a guy who's already done it at the big league level. He has a monstrous arm. He's very well regarded defensively. And he has like a 60-grade hit tool. Like, that's just not something you can get in most trade markets.

And if you're trying to piece together like, okay, you know, how good of a return do we have to get in order to deal Varsho? This is about as good as I think I could realistically imagine that return being. Shout out to Real Deal Prime. He says, I'm from Canada. Jay's fans here. We have a few catchers here in Toronto. We know you did, my guy. We've actually been coveting your catchers for a little bit.

And that's what next is truly excited about this deal. Oh, see, Jacob's a. scamp he's a scamp that guy but of course we have 63 days now jesse 63 days until uh spring training uh kicks off so we are very excited to be all about that and of course we are here in arizona so we will be covering that for you guys all of you blue jays fans want to keep an eye on this guy uh keep keep keep tuned in right here we appreciate you guys being here of course uh we have so much to dig into when it comes to gabby moreno and the future of this team and uh like we said is definitely some more moves to be made.

So in the meantime, keep your eyes right here. Follow us on Twitter. I am at cap underscore caveman with a K. Jesse is at Jesse and Friedman. Our shows at PHNX underscore D-Bex. But of course, all roads lead to at PHNX underscore Sports on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. We thank you guys so much for being here

on behalf of Jacob, that scamp, Jesse, and myself. We always appreciate you guys, tune it in and thank all of you, Blue Jays fans, DeVax fans, we thank all of you guys for being here. And remember, kids, baseball is fun, but it's so much more fun when you make a trade that benefits both teams. Let's go.