PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Can Arizona Diamondbacks TURNAROUND Brutal 2025 Season & Make Playoffs?

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

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Jesse and I always talked about going on our boys trip without Derek. This podcast is the encapsulation of that. Don't go anywhere. PHNXDBAC starts in 30 seconds. Welcome on in, guys, to the PHNXVACs podcast. I'm your host for the moment, not for tomorrow, but Damon Farrell, I will be back behind the sticks tomorrow. But right now I got my guy Kevin Thomas putting in the hard labor, if you will,

helping us out, making me look good. And, of course, as I said off the top, I got my buddy. my good friend, my good pal, Jesse Friedman here to talk a little bit of MLB All-Star game, what the Diamondbacks need to do in the second half of the season as well as bringing you some analysis from the MLB draft. But first off, Jesse, I just wanted to ask, how are we doing, man? How's life? How was your little hiatus from baseball?

I don't know if I would call it a hiatus from baseball, Damon. Hiatus is from baseball don't really exist in my world. No matter where I happen to be on planet Earth, I'm very likely watching a baseball. baseball game just about every single night this time of year. But yeah, it was, it was good. Texas was humid as expected. But San Antonio, low key, not a terrible city. The riverwalk thing was actually pretty cool. I love how you frame that. Low key, not a terrible city. I also have said the same thing. Whenever I talk about San Antonio and I'm not the biggest Texas guy. I always tell people that not a big fan of the Dallas Fort Worth area.

Not huge on Houston, even though I was very young when I went there. But I've heard a lot of people say the same. San Antonio, when I visited, I think it's a good like two, three day city. I don't know that it's like a place you want to spend a weekend. But the riverwalk, like I'm sure it could get a little bit tiring and old. And if you're living there,

I'm sure you never go down to the riverwalk because it's probably the last place you'd ever want to be. but when you're experiencing it for like the first time or you haven't done it in a few years or something, I feel like that's a cool place to spend a couple days. I think so. And I mean, just the concept of water like, you know, around the city is just very foreign to those of us who grew up here in Arizona. So, yeah, I mean, I love, I love me like a good river view while I'm, you know, eating a burger or something. And there's ample opportunity to do that in the town of San Antonio.

So it was as far as Texas cities go, Damon, I feel like you have to give that caveat. But as far as Texas cities go, it did not disappoint. Yeah, I'm with you there. Have you ever been to Austin? I haven't. And I feel like that is very, that very likely would be at the top of my list with Texas cities. But yeah, that's one of the few I have not been to yet.

So one of these days. Yeah, that's a city with some actual character. Apologies to anybody who lives in Texas. And we're trashing your entire state right now. But I will say, Kevin, the thought of Jesse walking down the riverwalk with like a fat Tuesday slurpy in his hand. Like maybe he just ate at like Dick's last resort or something like that. And just like just taking in the tourist life on the riverwalk is just funny to me. But Jesse, we do have to get into a little bit of baseball.

I'm sure you watch the All-Star game and all the festivities. You know, I guess we'll start off with kind of, you know, the home runner. because that chronologically happened first. You know, obviously it was kind of a big deal. E. E. E. E. E. Hineos-Warez, you know, one of the home run leaders in all of baseball, 31 bombs at the All-Star break, which is insane when you really truly think about it. It's insane that Cal Raleigh, was he of 38? It's like that's like one of the wildest things I think I've ever seen from a catcher.

But Gino should have been in the home run derby solely based off of what he's done this season. He had made a comment earlier in the weeks leading up to it that he would enjoy being selected for the home run derby if he was given that opportunity. And ultimately, Jazz Chisholm was given that opportunity. How much were you laughing at Jazz Chisholm, Jesse? I guess that's the right place to start off this discussion. I had a feeling we'd be talking about Jazz Chisholm here before we got too deep into this. Yeah, I mean, Jazz Chisholm, it wasn't the greatest performance. think it's it's interesting how some guys just kind of have it with the with the home run derby

and some guys don't and it doesn't necessarily correlate to what their regular season stats are like i mean jazz chisholm had 17 home runs at the break which is not a lot but i think it's pretty similar to some of the other guys that were in this competition you know like someone someone like o'neal cruz he had 16 home runs before the all-star break and you know you're still expecting to see some pretty great things from Omaniel Cruz. He was pretty impressive. And yet, Jazz Chisholm just goes out there and hits three home runs and is kind of on an island by himself. So, yeah, it's hard, it's hard for me to be too critical of this process. But I think it was a miss on the part of the league, not to put A. E. Oh, Hennio Suarez in there. If you're looking for someone, if you're looking for

guys who are fun and who will really have a good time doing this, E. E. E. E. E. E. Horez has, has to be at least near the top of that list. We saw him over the winter. He participated in a home run derby out in Venezuela and he won that home run derby. It was very impressive to watch. So he is definitely built for this kind of thing. He's shown that in the past. And with 31 homers in the first half, I think he definitely deserved an opportunity. It was a shame that he didn't receive that. Yeah, it certainly was. and I think for Diamondbacks fans too, it's kind of like just a, it feels like the Diamondbacks are just,

I know that like this is how all small market type fans think, but it just feels like MLB overlooks the Diamondbacks consistently in favor of some of the larger market teams, even when it's completely undeserved in this case. So like I brought up the comparison of like if Gino had, say it's two weeks from now and Gino is on the Yankees, sure. No chance he's not in the home.

run derby literally a zero percent chance he's out in the home run derby and that alone tells you uh exactly what the problem is in my opinion with with a lot of what baseball is doing but one thing that wasn't a problem with what baseball is doing is i think the swing off because that was pretty widely uh regarded as a really really cool change in the mlb all star game format jesse i saw you tweeting about it uh what were kind of your your your thoughts on the on the new format change man i was i was rooting for to happen ever since major league baseball made this a thing a few years ago where if the all-star game ends in a tie after nine innings then that's how we determine the tie ever since then every all-star game that i watch i'm just like please let it be tied after nine

innings i don't want it to be a decade before we actually see this thing in action and uh and thanks to the national league's bullpen problems uh we got exactly that on on tuesday and you know, would it have been more fun to see a matchup between the real home run hitters on both sides? Like, would we have wanted to see Otani and Aaron Judge and so on and so forth in this swing off? Absolutely. I don't know if Jonathan Aronda is necessarily at the top of the list of home run hitters in the American League right now. But for what it was, it still delivered. It was very entertaining.

I was hardcore rooting for them to give Kyle Schwerber the MVP, even though he didn't really do anything in the actual game. It just came up and had three bombs in the swing off. And they did. They embraced it. They gave him the MVP. And I guess Pete Alonzo was cool with it, at least cool with it enough.

He, of course, hit an actual three-run home run in the real game, which you could argue was more MVP deserving than going three-for-three in the swing-off. But, you know, it was basically a, you know, sort of a walk-off home-run type situation for Kyle Schwerver. And it was fun to, it was fun to see the league reward that. I think the natural question here, Damon, is should we end all baseball games this way? And I don't think the baseball traditionalists are going to be so on board with that.

But it was a lot of fun to watch. Yeah. I mean, I saw Jared Karabas tweet that actually, like how long until baseball adopts this as their extra inning rule. obviously we've talked about with the kind of the California rule the ghost runner ruled that if you know in the in the playoffs you know that that can't really be a thing that happens I know that that's it's not the case but you know it's that it takes away from I think the purity of the game when you're when it's like truly like you can't just put a guy on in scoring position to decide an NLCS game for example but I do think that there is an avenue in

which you could probably make that a rule in the regular season and people would love it. Maybe not baseball purists, but I think, I think like the common fan would absolutely love that. And if that was the case, how much does that change the value of players in baseball? Like, I think the home run hitters become even more valuable, right? Because it, it's the difference between potentially making playoffs and not making playoffs in a season.

If you have guys that can in a home run derby style format, put it over the fence, is Pete Alonzo now getting a Shohei Otani style contract? because he's the home run derby king in Major League Baseball or Kyle Schorber, for example, and those guys are just inherently more valuable because they win you extra inning games. It's a really interesting concept to think about. I had the same thought, and I think that's ultimately why this could never be a real thing, because it would have an impact on how teams built their rosters, right? I mean, extra inning games are not all that uncommon.

I'm looking at the expanded standings over on MLB right now that shows how many extra inning games each team has played. And most teams are already around 10 extra inning games played. And we're only a little more than halfway through the season. So if having more thump on your roster meant that, you know, out of your 15 extra inning games, you were able to win nine or 10 of them instead of winning four or five, that's a massive difference in the standings.

And would totally incentivize you to want to have it, least a few real power hitters on your roster. Clearly, Kyle Schwerber is built for this sort of thing, right? It was not a coincidence that he went up there and went three for three. So as sad as it is, I don't think we're going to see this in real games anytime soon, maybe ever, because it really would have a big impact on how teams were built. Jesse, what does that mean for Kyle Schorber's floor? If he's winning your extra inning games on swing offs. I mean, does it double it? I mean, You know, it's a, it's a really interesting concept. But Ernesto puts it an interesting wrinkle that I think we could go with to even expand upon this idea.

What if the opposing manager got to select the player he wanted to be in the swing off on the other team? So other, so every time the Diamondbacks were going to swing off, you have Jose Herrera up there, swing in the bat, maybe coming in cold. Maybe he didn't even start the game. But the, you know, Dave Roberts is like, hey, we love, we love for Jose Herrera to go right now. And then meanwhile, the Dodgers super teams, like worst hitter probably has like 10 home runs on the season. And, you know, it's just a shambolic ending. But I think that's a fun concept. If the goal is entertainment value, I'm not sure you want each team picking the worst home run hitters on the other team.

That could be a bit of a tough watch seeing Jose Herrera go up there and, you know, have three outs to deal with trying to hit a home run. I know it might not end for a while. You might have to just keep going for a pretty long time. Yeah, I'm not sure Jose Herrera even hits batting practice home runs. But I did just want to say real quick before we move on here, I don't want to do this, but Killer Rex, chill out, man, seriously. That's your one warning. You're losing your mind right now.

Diamondbacks haven't played a game since Friday. It's been a week. Why are you so angry? They won that game as well. Relax a little bit. Thank you. But moving on, you know, I did think that the Diamondbacks performed extremely admirably in the game, Jesse. You know, you had a lot of, you know, obviously that first inning in particular was a big Diamondbacks inning with Cote getting those two RBI to kick things off for the National League.

Corbyn Corman Carroll hits a no-doubt moonshot home run a little bit later. And then, you know, Gino, while he didn't get a hit himself, he, you know, he got a lot. on base at one point, I believe, from getting his hand hit and also made a pretty nice defensive play as well. But Kevin, if you wouldn't mind bringing up our stats here that we have for the Arizona DiBaks All-Star game, the D-Backs combined to go two for four, 500 average, hit a bomb, three RBI out of the six for the National League. And Corby and Carol added a walk as well. I didn't put on Gino's hit by pitch. But altogether, a good showing from, you know, this organization here in the M.MLB All-Star game. It really was. And it's something we haven't said

very often over the years. It feels like, you know, every year DeBax fans tune into the All-Star game to watch their one or two All-Stars like, you know, roll over the top to the second basement. It's like, yeah, this is great. But this year was different. The long, the farthest batted ball in that All-Star game was Corbyn Carroll's home run. It was 414 feet. And the hardest hitball in that All-Star game, the swing off, notwithstanding, was 109.6 miles per hour. It was Catelle Martes doubled down the right field line. And we made it about halfway through this game where it looked like Catelle would be the MVP for the National League.

I mean, he drove in the only two runs there going into, I think it was the fifth inning where Pete Alonzo hit his three-run homer. And then at that point, he became the favorite for the MVP. But, yeah, it was good to see the Diamondbacks actually. actually do something. We're not used to seeing a whole lot of that over the years. And, you know, Corbyn Carroll, the hitter that he has become where he just hits a whole lot of home runs at this point. It was, you know, certainly cool for the whole world to see that on, on full display. Yeah, it absolutely was. And it was, I think altogether, like MLB All-Star,

the whole festivity around it is probably the best out of the major sports. Kevin and I were discussing that a little bit yesterday. You know, NBA All-Star weekend. Like, I think that the dunk contest can be fun from time to time. It's very hit or miss, in my opinion. The three-point contest kind of is what it is, but the game itself kind of sucks. And then you look at the Pro Bowl. The whole thing is irrelevant.

The Four Nations face off this year in the NHL was electric. If they continue to do that, that probably takes the cake because those guys were legitimately out there, like fighting off of the initial horn, initial puck drop. and then, you know, really trying for their countries to take home that title. But that's almost even even an entirely different thing as is because it's not really an all-star game. It's just its players representing their nations. And then the MLB All-Star weekend, you know, the Home Run Derby is, you know, kind of appointment

television, I'd say, for most sports fans. And then you move into the, the All-Star game itself, which is typically fairly competitive, I would argue, you know, despite it being an exhibition game. the Arizona Diamondbacks had a great showing in that, uh, in that side of things. And, you know, I, basketball and football guy asks here,

is it the best, uh, all star game in Diamondbacks franchise history? As you mentioned, Jesse, a lot of like, rough memories in regards to, uh,

diamond backs performing in all star games. Like I don't really remember like one moment of Paul Goldschmidt in an all star game despite him making so many in a row. Um, I'm, I'm trying to, I'm remembering vividly, Patrick Corbyn that one year where he was almost untouchable for the first half of the season,

went into the All-Star game and picked up the loss for the National League. Stuff like that, the Diamondbacks fans have had to deal with forever. But not in this one. Maybe because we didn't have any pitchers in this one, Jesse. Maybe that has something to do with it. Just keep Diamondbacks hitters in it and keep the pitchers far away from the MLB All-Star game and all of a sudden things will work itself out. I think Catell Marte was the first Dime.

time and back to drive in a run in the All-Star game since 2005. Luis Gonzalez, I believe, was the last DeBack to even have an RBI in the All-Star game. Yeah, more than, you know, I guess two decades ago at this point. And Corbyn Carroll's home run, that was the first home run in DeBack's history in the All-Star game as well. So, you know, how you can exist as a franchise for almost 30 years before hitting a home run in the All-Star game, it feels like that's a little wild. But, you know, better late than never. So then I'd argue it almost 100% is the greatest debacks all-star game in the history of this organization.

But that is wild to think about, especially with some of the really good hitters that this franchise has had over the years. Guys that hit bombs, really. I mean, like you had MVP caliber players, Paul Goldschmidt, even Louise Gonzalez in that 2001, 2002 kind of, you know, realm of things was, was an MVP caliber player, Kattel Marte. you finally get a home run from your guy Corbyn Carroll in his second All-Star game, which is really cool as well. So hopefully many more for Corbin, hopefully many more for Catell as well. And hopefully Gino sticks around on this baseball team, at least in my opinion. But I did want to mention that Transonic 8 put here in the chat, I believe that's Craig says that mentioned Catell's house and the situation that is unfolding in regards to that. I think it bears noting.

I don't know how much, you know, it's not like we're going to necessarily give you any analysis on that. But it could tell Marte, apparently his house was, was unfortunately robbed while he was away in Atlanta for All-Star weekend on Tuesday night. And you don't have to change a topic, Kevin. It's real quick. I was just going to say that it's unfortunate how it feels like in today's society that that's happening more and more because people can figure out where these people live.

and then once they know that they're out of town, they go and they rob their house. And it's just crazy how much you're hearing about this these days. It's happening to a lot of NFL players. I don't happen to Joe Burrow. It happens in London to like English players all the time, constantly. And so it's just, it's just a wild, like, I'd say like, kind of outcome of the, of the digital world,

I feel like that we live in these days where that is bound to happen. and it's kind of scary, man. So, you know, hopefully he could tell and his family are doing all right and, and, you know, feeling safe and comfortable after that happening. But, you know, it's just a really unfortunate circumstance. Jesse, we're going to talk about the MLB draft and the Diamondbacks haul that they got in this past week. And we're going to do that right after the break here on the PHNXD Backs podcast. But first, let's talk about Phoenix Raceway, guys.

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So shout out those two. Download the Bet365 app today and use code PHNX365 and then sign up and get $20 off your first purchase with GameTime with our promo code of PHNNX. what's going on everybody what's going on zabe it's good to see you here in the chat uh we had a good what if episode yesterday uh jesse if you didn't get a chance to check that out we'd love to hear your thoughts on on my top 10 list i put together of uh what diamondbacks what if moments uh in franchise history because i think you could have added a good amount of value to that podcast but um you know it was a it was a fun discussion that we did anyways um maybe we maybe we have time at the end of

this show to kind of run through it real quick. But first off, I did want to get to just the MLB draft and what the Diamondbacks did in the MLB draft this up this last week here. And starting off with their first overall pick, I believe 18th overall, Kaysen Cunningham, middle infielder out of Texas. What are your thoughts on Kaysen Cunningham, Jesse? Well, he's not an undersized left-handed hitting outfielder, but he is an undersized left-handed hitting outfielder.

infielder. So we didn't quite hit the Diamondbacks ultimate prototype here, but we did get pretty close. Cunningham was listed at 510, 182. I've seen some reports that say he's really about 5'8, so he definitely fits the Diamondbacks type in that sense. But yeah, I think there's, I think there's a lot to like here. The Diamondbacks believe that he is the best pure hitter in the draft, and this was a draft class with some pretty decent offensive players in there. Of course, Ethan Holliday's name is one that people probably recognize more than any other. But I think there's a decent case to be made that Cunningham had the best hit tool out of anyone on the high school position player side, which is really impressive. You certainly like that when you're drafting a guy out of high school can be really, really hard to project whether a player taken out of high school is going to be able to hit in the major.

leagues. And when a player like this comes with that reputation, I think you feel a lot better about the risk that you're kind of absorbing there. But yeah, there's also a fun story here. I don't know if you guys have talked about this already. But during, have you guys talked about the Paul Skeen's story with Case and Cunningham? Okay. So, yeah. So when, when Cason Cunningham did his workout for the Diamondbacks in, I believe it was early June, he was out at Chase Field. And, before taking batting practice on the field, they had him warm up in the batting cages. And that's where the Diamondbacks have their trajectory machine set up. And for those who don't know, a trajectory is basically this computer system that is able to simulate

what it's like to face any real Major League pitcher. It gives you the look of the pitcher, the spin on the ball, the locations, all of those things. That sounds like the most futuristic machine I think I've ever heard in my entire life, Jesse. How is this the year 2025 and that exists? That's absolutely wild. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I mean, it's not like a physical version of that person. Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, you get Paul Schen's clone walking around out there. Otherwise, I think you would probably just clone five Paul Skeens's and have them be your starting rotation if that was possible. But the machine being able to read pitch tight. spin and like arm slot is pretty insane. Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly what it does. And so the debacks apparently were just showing him how it worked because it was it was just there in the batting cages. They were kind of giving him a little tour. And he was like, well, can I use it? And they were like, sure, you can use it. Who do you want us to set it to? And he said Paul

Skeens. I want to face Paul Skeens. And apparently as the story goes, Kaysen Cunningham, went on to hit a home run against Paul Skeens at 114 miles per hour exit velocity, which is pretty wild. And the Diamondbacks, of course, we asked Ian Rebin, the Diamondbacks director of amateur scouting after the draft pick was made. And he said that no, he did not take Case in Cunningham just because he hit a home run off a simulated version of Paul Skeen's. I would have been surprised if he had said that's why he took Cason.

in Cunningham. But he said it didn't hurt. I think it speaks maybe more than anything to Cunningham's just love of the game, the fact that he sees a trajectory machine and he's like, yeah, I want to face it. You know, I want to face Paul Skeen's using this thing in front of all of these people who are trying to decide whether or not they want to draft me. So yeah, it certainly didn't hurt his audition when he was out at Chase Field. That is a great story, Jesse. And like one of those, like I think, you know, that's like a storybook start to a career almost. Like something that like we'll look back on some, you'll write a profile or something years from now about like the,

or one of our friends like Jack Summers or something. We'll write a profile about how Kaysen Cunningham, like that was the first moment of like a star breaking out. But that is really insane. Kevin, you heard that right, 114 off the bat. Yes, I did. I mean, I want it injected directly into my veins. I want that confidence directed.

That guy has juice. That's a star in the making. But I did have our tool grades here for us to take a peek at four, Kason Cunningham. Obviously, you mentioned that hit tool graded out extremely highly at 60. That power is sitting at 45, run 60, arm 55, and field 50. Jesse, when you look at these five tools in general, what I guess what sticks out to you outside of the contact itself? I think one of the big questions, as it often is with a high school shortstop, is will they be able to stay at shortstop? It breeding around some of the different public

scouting reports, there's definitely a sense in the industry that Casey and Cunningham might ultimately wind up at second base. But, you know, if he really does have a 60 grade hit tool, then that'll play at second base. That can still be okay, especially if he's able to develop some power. And I think there is also some confidence that there could be some power here. He is, I think he's filled out a decent amount.

This isn't one of those high school players that you're kind of dreaming on like, oh, three years from now, he could weigh 30 or 40 more pounds or whatever. We'll see what the power looks like then. He's already pretty well filled out at this point. So I think developing power for him is probably going to be more about finding ways to get more loft on the ball, just hitting the ball in the air more as opposed to spring line drives. I think that's where that power increase really would come from

at this stage. But yeah, I think there's a lot to like. It's really early. We'll have to see what it looks like in the miners for probably a pretty long time before we're talking about him being a member of the Diamondbacks. But this is a player that was ranked pretty highly by a number of different outlets. I think him falling to 18 is a really good outcome for the Diamondbacks. So what you're saying is us over here at Heraldo Perdomo FC, we should be safe potentially from him playing shortstop in the future. That's what I took from that entire discussion. At least for, you know, he's 19 years old right now.

It's probably going to be three or four years before really having that conversation. So these, as you as you well know, Damon, these problems have a way of figuring themselves out over time. So we'll see what it's like in 2028 or whatever it winds up being. I'm looking, I'm trying to look here for, for Corbyn Carroll's tool grades back when he was drafted by the Arizona Diamondbacks to see what they had his power grade at. Because I find, I think that that could be interesting, right, because he is clearly such a guy that has. you know, insane amounts of pop in that bat for his size. But I feel like maybe that was he slipped a little bit further. I mean, obviously he should have gone higher in the draft.

Like that's no discussion at this point. He's outside of Bobby Witt, he's, you know, it's, it's them too as the two best players in that draft class, in my opinion. It says here, this is the AI overview on Google. So it's likely incorrect because that, I'm not sure it's ever been right. But it's given me 55 power for, for Corby. Carol there. And Kaysen Cunningham is at 45 power.

So not quite the same, but, you know, a smaller left-handed hitter. You're always going to draw comparisons to all the other guys that the Arizona Diamondbacks draft. They did draft some pitchers as well, Jesse. They draft Patrick Forbes in the competitive balance part of the draft. He's a pitcher from Louisville as our sweet, sweet, sweet Jesse Jr., slithers on screen. because Zabe was asking for him. So he's here.

Jesse, would you like to say anything? I don't feel like I need to. We're just, me and Jesse Jr. We just have this unspoken thing between us where we're just cool with each other. Absolutely, absolutely. Getting back to Patrick Forbes, you know, it seems like from my very, very simple analysis

I did on Patrick Forbes, it feels like he has a really good one-two pitch combo with that fastball slider, but that he doesn't have maybe a lot of tertiary and I don't know the word for four pitches outside of that. But is that, would you consider that analysis as correct, Jesse, regarding Patrick Forbes? Yeah, totally. I think it really was primarily fastball slider for him at Louisville.

He didn't really need. And a lot of times that's what it comes down to is if you have a really nasty fastball and slider in college, you can probably get by with those two pitches and you're not really forced to try to really get too deep into anything beyond that. I think he has a cutter of some sort too. DeBacks talked about that the other night. I think it's really just his slider kind of having two different shapes. And then he does have some sort of feel for a change up as well, although he hasn't had to use that pitch in college all that much. So yeah, good size, six three, two hundred twenty pounds he's listed

as kind of interesting to look at his numbers in Louisville where his ERA was in the mid-fours. He struck out an absurd number of batters, but the run prevention was not quite what you would expect it to be. However, this is a guy who I believe this was his first year actually as a starting pitcher full-time. So he's still pretty new to this thing. The D-back scouted him back in high school as a position player, not all that long ago. So you wonder the more that he gets into pitching and learning how to pitch and maybe developing that arsenal a little bit further, I think you could maybe see, you know,

the run prevention numbers get back to a place where you like. But the tools are definitely intriguing. I mean, I think having a fastball up to 100 miles an hour as a starting pitcher, I mean, that's a really, really good place to start if you're able to build some of those secondary pitches around that. Yeah. It feels like, you know, when you have a good one-two punch like that, that you have a high floor as a prospect at the very least, right?

Like, I think that as a Diamondbacks fan, it's safe to assume that he probably will be a reliever at the major league level. You know, if he makes it through this organization, obviously, you know, he could be traded to a different organization in the meantime. But, I mean, I guess, again, like, I'm going to defer to you on this topic. but am I incorrect in going to that that lengths, Jesse? It feels like, you know, his prospect floor is fairly high in my eyes. I think that's, I think that's fair to say.

I mean, you know, I think back to someone like Landon Sims, who the Diamondbacks took a few years ago, and you kind of felt the same way where he was pitching as a high leverage reliever in the bullpen in college and the debacks. I guess they did start him out as a starter. Things didn't go too well there. But really it was just injuries that just kind of piled up and made it so that Landon Sims was really never able to reach that high floor. At least he hasn't yet.

There's certainly still time for him to do that. So, you know, it's hard for me to go too far on a high floor with basically anyone in the MLV draft. It's just kind of the nature of the beast. But relatively speaking, yeah, I think it's not all that hard to imagine him finding a role as a major league reliever, even if things don't pan out for him as a starter. And I think they totally could pin out for him as a starter. His walk rate was a little higher than you'd like, but not outrageous. So I think his command improving a little bit will be important.

I think developing a change up will be important. But I don't think it's all that hard to imagine things coming together for him as a starter as well. So we'll just kind of have to wait and see. Yeah, that's very interesting stuff. there, the Diamondback's third pick was Brian Curley out of Georgia, kind of a shorter pitcher than our previous pick of Patrick Forbes. He's 5 foot 10. But he is stocky.

He's 212 pounds listed and seems to have a pretty like stocky wide frame on him, I'd say for his height. Brian Curley, absolute character, Jesse. I'm sure you've seen all the videos of him like surprising himself when he strikes a guy out and giving it one of these or or uh you know like kind of like bouncing his head while he's on the mound about to throw a pitch interesting interesting cat but uh how do you feel about him as a prospect overall i think there's there's definitely more bullpen risk with someone like this you know you see 510 212 and you're not your first thought is probably not like oh this guy's

going to be a super durable starter but it's possible i mean there are there are effective big league pitchers, some very effective big league pitchers who are around, you know, 510, 511. It's definitely something that we see. It feels like some of the public rankings were fairly split on where to put Brian Curley. I found him as high as number 91 over at ESPN, which is a couple picks before where the diamond back selected him. And I think baseball America had him somewhere in the mid-200s. So it's hard to know exactly. you know, exactly what the industry consensus was on someone like this. But he's another guy who maybe, maybe there is a future as a starter.

He hasn't, he hasn't started much in his baseball journey so far. He started as a closer for Georgia this, this past season in college. And then he moved into the rotation and he was their number one starter by the end of the season. So I think there is maybe some potential there. Like, hey, this guy really hasn't, doesn't have. much starting experience and the very little that he has was pretty impressive. But the other side of this is that if the Diamondbacks did just develop him as a reliever or were willing to convert him fairly early on in the process, he's someone that you could see

making it to the majors in maybe less time than most of these other guys. Being drafted out of the SEC, I think there's a path there for him to be a member of the Diamondbacks bullpen potentially before too long and given the state of things right now with that unit that you know that doesn't sound too bad another more notable prospect of the diamond back selected i believe we were live on air when it happened is brady council who of course is his son of diamondbacks legend craig council i believe that brady was even born in arizona based off of uh you know kind of some pictures i was seeing uh like post the 2001 world series he looked like a a little baby. So I was kind of thinking that he probably was. But kind of just a cool,

comfortable circle moment for this organization. Was there anybody on day two? I know that, you know, we talked about it a little bit off air. And I don't know anything about the day two guys, but was there any particular prospect on day two that you found interesting, Jesse? I think, yeah, I mean, the name, cred with, you see counsel, the last name. And it's like, oh, I wonder if that's Craig Counsel's kid. And sure enough, sure enough it is. And yeah, he was born in in Phoenix, Arizona back in 2003. So it is, it is cool to see something like that. Other than that, you know, I think, I think their next pick after the three we talked

about, Dean Livingston is interesting. Six foot four, two hundred five pounds out of high school. Fastball again in the, in the mid-90s with a couple of different breaking pitches that the team seems to like. So, yeah, I think, I think focusing on, on the fastball is interesting as kind of, kind of of a really important thing for some of these guys. I think it's worth noting that the one diamond back starter that they have developed in-house who's really having success right now is Ryan Nelson. And what sets Ryan Nelson apart? It's the fact that he has a big time fastball

with great life and pretty decent velocity. And he really hasn't developed any any wipeout sort of secondary pitches, but it still has kind of worked for him anyway because the fastball is just that good. So, you know, I think it feels like maybe the organization is kind of trending in that direction a little bit, at least with, you know, a guy like Patrick Forbes where I think the fastball is definitely the most promising thing about his arsenal. So, yeah, you know, maybe that's, that's a kind of a larger direction shift for this organization. It's an interesting point because three of their first four picks were pitchers. And of those pitchers, they all had 60 grade fastballs as their highest graded pitch. So absolutely seems like that that is an intentional thing that the diamond

backs were targeting and a really good point by you, Jesse. We're going to talk more about the trade deadline coming up and what we need to see from this team to avoid selling off. It's most valuable assets. We'll do that right after the final break here on the PHNXD backs podcast. Guys, we all know how hot it is here in the valley and we all know how much that raises your AC bill. So that's why you're going to need APS and one of their smart thermostats. Kevin, you said that you have a smart thermostat at your new place. Don't know if you guys heard. Kevin is moving.

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the Diamondbacks currently, I believe, sit five and a half games out of the wild card standings here at the halfway point of this season. I guess, you know, what do you think that the Diamondbacks? I mean, I guess it's kind of an obvious question, but do the Diamondbacks need to have a hot start, you know, in these first week here of the second half of the season starting in order to kind of justify keeping some of these more high-profile players on the roster? I think that in order to have any hope of buying at the deadline, I think you definitely need to go, you know, I don't want to say the margin for air is zero, but it's probably pretty close to that. Although I guess it depends on what you mean by buying, right? Like if we're talking about the debacks being aggressive on this 2025 season, yes,

they're going to have to really show some things here in the next week or two. But from what we've heard, I know Amil Sadei went on the radio over at Arizona Sports yesterday, and he was using words like opportunistic, where this team would try to improve, whether it be for 2025 or 2026 and beyond. It wouldn't surprise me if the debacks acquired a major league ready piece at the deadline, almost regardless of what happens over the next couple of weeks. I just think that if the team continues to not really be in the race, then you're probably looking more so at someone who would be controllable for a few years. And knowing Mike Hazen, knowing this regime, it wouldn't surprise me if they went that route. Yeah, not saying you're going to get this caliber of player back necessarily, but I thought my immediate thought was something similar to, you know, maybe I didn't get this player right. The name I've had on my mind lately is Edward Cabrera of the Miami Marlins, among some other players too.

But just thinking of guys who are controllable for a few more years could step into the rotation immediately and fill a more immediate need, as well as just set you up better in 2026 and 27. You know, I don't think the Diamondbacks are going to punt on 2026 regardless of how this season finishes. I think they still want to be competitive next year. And in order to do that, they're going to have to get some starting pitching. And I don't think they can do it by, you know, just going into free agency and, you know, signing two more guys for $20 million a piece. I just don't think they're going to have the money for that. So making a trade for a

controllable starter, as we've seen Mike Hazen do a couple of times in the past, I think it could make a lot of sense right now. Granted, it's pretty hard to pull something like, like that off. So, you know, the Diamondbacks might want controllable starting pitching, but so does basically every other team in the league. Absolutely. I was getting some players on the raise mixed up a little bit here, Jesse. But the one I was thinking of, and not that this guy is some world-beating player, but the Isaac Perrettez for Christopher Morel trade that happened, where the, the race traded an all-star in Isaac Perettas to the Cubs and got back a high-profile prospect who was already kind of in that major league at that major league level at that point.

I'm thinking along the lines of something like that. Maybe a guy who was a formerly top prospect who could be struggling a little bit on his current franchise. And maybe you get a guy like, you know, some of the like a Josh Nailer, for example, and, you know, for a team that's really first base needy or something like that and flip for that kind of prospect. But that was kind of where my mind was going. I think that that would be something the Diamondbacks would be open to.

too. I don't know if that's something that teams would be wanting to do, especially for a guy who is expiring like a Josh Naylor. But I have heard that there's actually quite a bit of interest in Josh Naylor here on the trade market streets. And, you know, I think that maybe my kind of wish of keeping a 27 year old as part of this core of this roster might not be happening because it feels like maybe momentum is building for Josh Naylor to find a new home. And the Diamondbacks, I guess as much as me and Elise and other people in this chat aren't the biggest Pave and Smith fans in the world. They do have an in-house replacement that fits solidly right in once he gets back off the IL

to play that first base position already on their team. So it's not like they'll be empty-handed like they might be if they traded a Merrill Kelly or a Zach Gallen, which you've noted Jesse on this show when you were on last week, that there was some thoughts as to maybe they wouldn't trade both via Ken Rosenthal because they wouldn't have the depth in starting pitching to even really sustain a major league roster if they did trade both. But I do think that, you know, obviously you have to weigh the idea of we can extend qualifying offers to all of these players.

Is that a better option than, is the trade package we're going to get a better option than the competitive balance pick that we would get back, which is a late first rounder for said player? It's an interesting kind of dilemma. that you're left with. But you also, you know, you might get back some, some more controllable young asset.

I've mentioned on this show a few times, like Gino's talked about he wants to stay. Merrill is a guy who's kind of been in the valley for a long period of his life. Could maybe you talk to those guys beforehand and say, hey, we would love to have you on this team next year. And by no means are we saying, you will guarantee be on this team.

If you get a better offer on the open market, take it. but we'll definitely pursue you in free agency and don't want there to be any hard feelings if we trade you to a team that is more contending and see if those guys are open to something like that because it feels like both of those guys could potentially be open to a move like that. Do you think that there's any realistic avenue for that happening or do you think that I'm living in fantasy land with that scenario? You mean a scenario where they trade a guy but sort of try to make their intention

known beforehand, like, oh, we want you back and try to facilitate that. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to try our best to bring you back. We don't know what your number is going to get to in free agency, but we find you to be like a staple of this organization. Gino, we have an out of third basement, pretty much this entire time that the franchise has existed, Barr, you know, Matt Williams at the end of his career. And, you know, Merrill Kelly has pretty much been the most consistent picture that, like,

this organization is like had in some time, man. So I think that, you know, yeah, my question is whether it's, if there's any realism to the idea of, hey, we could trade these guys for, for, you know, an expiring haul, a hall that you would get for an expiring player, maybe get a couple pieces back, but then try to get those guys back in the offseason. I think it's totally possible. It is, it is something that has happened before. It's not something that we see all that often, though. So I think that if you do trade any of those guys, you probably have to know in the back of your head that while it's not impossible for you to bring them back, it's probably less likely than if you were to just hold on to them for the rest of the

season. So if there's someone in that group that you really are interested in bringing back, maybe that would factor into your calculus there. I think Merrill Kelly, of all those guys, this isn't based on any inside information, but in my head, Merrill Kelly out of that group makes the most sense. Like, you absolutely need more starting pitching. going into next year, you really have no choice. And I think Merrill Kelly, you know, having being a Valley native, a guy who's been in the organization for a really long time, clearly has enjoyed his time pitching in Arizona. I think it could make sense for both sides, for him to just come back for, you know,

maybe it's a two-year deal or something like that. And given the fact that he's 36 years old, I don't think you're looking at two and, you know, $45 million. I think it's going to be a lot more reasonable than that. Maybe a price the debuts could actually pay. Another, I think, big variable here, as you alluded to earlier, is which of these guys are you giving qualifying offers to? Because as you said, if you're pretty sure you're going to give Gino Suarez a qualifying

offer at the end of the year, then any trade offer you receive needs to exceed the value of that draft pick. otherwise it isn't worth doing. But I don't know where the devax stand on that. I mean, I think they probably would give Gino a qualifying offer. Would they give Zach Gallen a qualifying offer? I think it probably would make sense to. But on the other hand, you have to be prepared for guys to accept these offers.

You can't leave yourself in a position where you're totally screwed. If you know, if you dish out two or three qualifying offers, they all get accepted. and now you've got $60 million on the books and no money to spend. So I think that's another big part of this equation. And I'm not totally sure where they stand on Gino versus Gowlin. You know, is Josh Naylor a qualifying offer candidate? I would guess probably not. But it's it's hard to say for sure.

Yeah, yeah. I think that that's, you know, a very astute point. It's, you know, what's the, what's the, what's the, you know, how are you going to get? good enough value for these guys, you know, in the long run here. But I do think that they probably, I agree with you. I think they probably would give that qualifying offer to Zach Gallen. I think that they would for Gino Suarez. Gino Suarez is a guy who I could see him accepting that because he is kind of, you know,

in his 30s and, you know, how long term of a contract is he really receiving? And that APY that he would get on that one year qualifying offer is probably more than he will receive from any team on the open market, like not really probably, definitely more than he would receive on the open market. But Zach Gowan, personally, I think I would give him the qualifying offer if you were making me put my Mike Hazen hat on

just because I think that you bet on a pitcher like that. And if he performs, the way that we've seen him perform in the past, that's what he could be worth that APY, frankly. But also it mostly just comes down to Ken Kendrick at the end of the day. Like how much is he willing to spend? How much is he willing to put on the table potentially with these qualifying offers,

having the chance of being accepted? I do wonder, you know, what what the level of investment is going to be after a disappointing season where the dimebacks have their highest payroll in franchise history. But I will say, like, a big factor in this that I think needs to be noted is Jordan Montgomery, his salary is off the books, which is a pretty good chunk of change. So that kind of a loan right there allows for a qualifying offer level contract just by getting him off the books. So it's not necessarily like you're spending any more money technically in that circumstance.

It is a little bit more, but not a ton more. Yeah, it's interesting. I haven't looked too, too closely at this point at how much money is coming off the books, kind of what the payroll situation is going to look like. But I do know that just very roughly speaking with the contracts coming, off the books that we're that we're expecting to come off the books you're looking at around you know maybe maybe 40 million dollars to spend this off season something in that range plus or minus probably 10 uh in either direction and so and of course yeah it totally depends on

how much ken kendrick is willing to spend next year i think that sort of bakes in an assumption that we're we're going to see payroll come down just a little bit going into 2026 just sort of my baseline expectation without knowing for sure. You know, if you have 40 or 50 million dollars to spend, then 100% you have the capacity to take on, you know, a Zach Gallen or a Gino-Swaris accepting the qualifying offer. It wouldn't totally sink you in and of itself. But if you have two guys accepting a qualifying offer, then that's $42 million. And it's like, all right, well, we got, you know, Gino and Gowan back or whoever it is. But now we have basically no money at all to address any of the other needs on the roster.

So a lot of that would just come down to how much risk is Ken Kendrick willing to take on. You don't expect those guys to accept the qualifying offers. It's not very common, but it is a bit of a risk. And you have to be prepared to pay it if those guys did decide to accept. Yeah, no doubt about that. Jesse the Dynebanks sit at 47 and 503 games back from 500. as we noted earlier, I think five and a half games back from the wild card here. Yeah, confirmed five and a half games back here behind the Reds, Cardinals, Giants, Padres, Mets,

and Brewers in that wild card race, which puts you seventh in the National League. In this upcoming slate before the trade deadline, they have 12 games. They play a three game slate against the Cardinals, three games against the Astros. Then they go on the road and play three against the Pirates and three against the MLB league leaders in record. the Detroit Tigers. In that stretch, Jesse, if I had to put you on the spot,

what record did they need to have in order to consider not selling off assets at the trade deadline? To not sell anyone, to just be an exclusive buyer. Yeah. Or maybe they sell up a Zach Allen, but they don't really sell anybody else

and they bring in an MLB ready pitcher, you know, to kind of take his place, like something like that. I mean, I'll start by saying even if the Diamondbacks stay in a pretty clear cell mode, I'm not sure it means they're trading all four of those guys that we've been talking about. It might still mean they trade one or two of them just based on what we're hearing from Mike Hazen, what we're hearing from Amiel Saaday in some of the interviews they've done recently. It doesn't sound like a full-scale sell-off necessarily.

But with that said, you know, if they came out and went like, I mean, nine in three, would put you at 56 and 53, so you'd be three games over 500 if I'm doing my math right. You know, that could get you back within two, three games, at least be close enough where maybe the calculus changes. And it would be very diamond backs for this to happen, Damon. It feels like any time this team feels like it is completely out of the race, they do go on some kind of a run and they, you know, they make you think twice, like, oh, maybe there is some hope for this team. So I'm not expecting it, but I'm also kind of expecting it for that reason.

Yeah, yeah, nine and three, I think would be electric. Basketball and football guy said eight and four. I think two BMC said the same thing is like that's, that's kind of their bare minimum of what they have to go. Michael Dixon says nine and three. I just, yeah, it's a, it's a difficult situation. I don't know exactly what they have to do in order to feel like they believe in this team again. But it would be so Diamondbacks to just live in the world. ambiguity of like to like go on a stretch here and then be like are we good do we suck who knows

we have a lot of really talented players but we can't put it together for an extended period of time so now we're just going to not sell try to make it miss playoffs by a game like that's just that feels like typical debaq season stuff but it's going to be an important stretch here man you got 12 games to basically prove to uh yourselves and prove to the rest of the league that this is a team that deserves to stick together and a team that belongs in the postseason, you know, given that the talent that they have on that on this roster. So got to got to have a hard stretch here of playing good baseball. The Cardinal series is extremely important given the the wild card kind of impact of that series. And then, you know, you got to take care of business. I'd argue against the pirates in that

in that three game slate. You almost have to, I think, sweep the pirates in that series, given the Tigers are on your schedule given the Astros are a pretty good team. I mean, that's not the easiest of schedules to need to come out on top with like almost twice as many wins as losses there. But you're going to have to find a way to do it if you want to prove to everybody that this is a team belongs together. Jesse, that's going to do it for us today on the PH&XD Bax podcast. I appreciate you joining me, my brother.

You can follow Jesse at Jesse N. Friedman on Twitter. You can follow all of his fine work over at Snake's territory. with our friend Jack Summers. They're doing great work over there, of course. And yeah, you can follow me at Damon Dogg. That's the AWG. You can follow my guy Kevin at Kevo Post. That's K-E-V-O-P-O-S-T-S.

And, of course, Derek Montea should be back tomorrow if he decides to get off. Is he ever coming back? No, it doesn't feel like that, right? Feels like I've been doing this podcast for this entire season by myself, even though it's only been less than a week here. But Derek should be back tomorrow if he decides he wants to get off his lazy bum,

we will see. But of course, appreciate everybody for being here. We'll be back live tomorrow for our post-game show for Cardinals versus Diamondbacks after all things are said and done in that one. So tune in for that, turn those notifications on,

like this video if you haven't done so already. A little light on the likes here, guys. Let's run those likes up a little bit. And we will catch you tomorrow on the PHNXD back show. But until then, remember kids, Baseball is fun, but it's so much more fun when you know about the draft picks that your team just selected.