PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - D-backs-Cardinals: Katie Woo on Goldschmidt’s struggles, Mikolas’ ‘midwest farmers’ comment and more

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello and welcome to the first ever edition of On the Record, which is a new concept here at PHNXD backs, where before every Diamondback series this season, I'm going to interview a beat writer covering the team that the Diamondbacks are playing. Of course, the Diamondbacks playing to St. Louis Cardinals for a three-game series this weekend. And there's no one I would rather start this with than talking with Katie Wu from the Athletic. She does an outstanding job covering the Cardinals. So without further ado, here's my conversation with the athletics, Katie Wu. All right, well, we are very excited to be joined by Katie Wu from The Athletic. She does an outstanding job covering the St. Louis Cardinals for the Athletic.

Starting point is 00:00:39 Katie, really appreciate you making the time today. Thanks for hopping on. No, thank you, Jesse. I'm excited to break down some Cardinals' debacks. So we made our preseason predictions here a couple of weeks ago, just of course right before the season started. and I, Katie, picked the St. Louis Cardinals to win the NL Central. And I'm not necessarily feeling fantastic about that so far.

Starting point is 00:01:06 But it is early. It's early, right? Six and seven. For the Cardinals, six and seven, of course, are the Diamondbacks as well. Both of these teams entering this series with identical records. Obviously, 2023 was not the season that Cardinals fans were hoping for. It feels like, I mean, the Cardinals, it just feels like they have to be an above 500 team. every single season.

Starting point is 00:01:28 That's sort of how it's always been. And for them to have the year that they did was pretty bizarre. What are just kind of the vibes right now in St. Louis for Cardinals fans here in the early going of the season? I think Cardinals fans are skeptical about this season. And I can certainly understand why, given what 2023 looks like. But two weeks into the season, I know a six and seven record is definitely nothing to write home about. But when you really break down the first two weeks of the year and you think about the car, Cardinals and their strength of schedule and who they're missing because they've missed a ton of key players to start the year.

Starting point is 00:02:02 The fact that they're six and seven but have been competitive in 11 out of 13 games, I think is a positive takeaway. This is not the Cardinals team that the front office envisioned rolling out on opening day. So the fact that they've been able to put some things together with some key players out, you know, no Tommy Edmund, no Lars Neupar, who will actually be back today. And then Sunny Gray just made his first start of the year on Tuesday. It's been, I would say, an encouraging sign, but certainly room for improvement going forward. It was a pretty interesting offseason, it seemed, for the Cardinals. Obviously, they wanted to make some additions to the starting rotation, and they did that. Sunny Gray, of course, being a pretty big get for them, Kyle Gibson, Lance Lynn,

Starting point is 00:02:44 coming back over as well. It was a really bizarre offseason for a lot of different reasons. The Diamondbacks wind up getting former Cardinal Jordan Montgomery. on a, you know, were they $25 million guarantee when all was said and done. Do you think that Cardinals fans are asking what if, like what if they hadn't struck so early in the market and kind of waited it out? Could they have had a Blake Snell or brought Jordan Montgomery back or something along those lines? I know they're asking what if because when the Jordan Montgomery signing broke,

Starting point is 00:03:17 I think my Twitter DMs crashed basically because it seems like for that amount of money and that commitment. Yeah, why couldn't the Cardinals do that? But I actually think it's ironic because for so long, the fan base, immediate to some extent, has criticized the Cardinals' front office for being reactive instead of proactive. So for John Moseilac to go out in the middle of November and sign three starters, including Sunny Gray, who I think is a perfect fit for this Cardinals team, you know, I was pretty encouraged by that. They might not have been the names that Cardinals fans were targeting with the exception of Gray. But to me, it was like, wow, this is a proactive team, the proactive front office, they jumped the starting pitching market. They're serious about improving,

Starting point is 00:03:55 even if it is in a very unorthodox, but traditional way for the Cardinals. And then it turns out that by being proactive, they potentially missed out on getting these guys for a much smaller deal than originally projected. But honestly, who could have known that? I still think what the Cardinals did was smart because this isn't the year to risk it. And I have to go out and essentially make up for last season because it was such a disaster in St. Louis. So if John Loselock would have just sat around and waited, I would imagine that the noise around that would have been even worse. So I just talked that I was like a big wig hang with them.

Starting point is 00:04:32 You know, maybe they could have waited a little longer, but I certainly understand why they went out and made the moves that they did. And again, two weeks in, small sample size, but so far, so good. I think Kyle Gibson, Lance Lynn and Sunny Gray, obviously, will be bigger and better additions than most people expected when they signed. So in the early going, as you said, the Cardinals are missing some key pieces. It also seems like the middle of their lineup has not been quite what you'd expect. I know you just wrote about this with Nolan Aronado and Paul Goldschmidt, not getting off to strong starts. Of course,

Starting point is 00:05:06 Diamondbacks fans, very familiar with Paul Goldschmidt. Also pretty familiar with Nolan Aronado from his time as a member of the Rockies. What are you seeing from those two guys here early in the season. Yeah, when you look at the Cardinals offense as a whole, it just really hasn't been great. They've scored three runs or fewer eight out of 13 games. They have a team OPS of 642, not what you want. And they struck out collectively 116 times. So the fact that they were six and seven with an offense that looks as paltry as that, I think that's pretty encouraging. Paul Golton and Nolan Aronado are set to different standards. You're looking at guys like Jordan Walker, who's hitting under 200, Victor Scott the second, their rookie center fielder who skipped AAA and it's.

Starting point is 00:05:46 on the roster essentially because every other outfielder is injured. He's hitting below 100. You know, we knew there was going to be a struggle with Victor Scott offensively. Maybe not to this extent, but it is what it is. And then you look at Nolan Gorman, who's starting to get going from the power perspective, but is still striking out a ton. But still, those things are all like relatively expected because those players are so young and so developing.

Starting point is 00:06:09 Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Aronado, not the case. They're the big bats for a reason. So for them to be slumping to the extent that they have. I mean, Paul Goldschmidt is 8 for 44 with 16 strikeouts. He has one extra base hit at home run against the Dodgers on opening day. Aronado's OPS is below 600. He has in Homer dating back to August 19th of last season, and that includes spring training. So obviously with these two guys, these are numbers that no one really expects.

Starting point is 00:06:36 I think it's more of a timing issue for Aronado. And for Goldschmidt, it's lack of success against the off speed. He's still doing damage against fastballs in the zone, but you throw Goldschmidt a slider out the zone he's chasing for both of these guys it just looks like they're not feeling right they haven't gotten their timing down again 13 games out of a 10 plus year sample size is probably unfair but i think sure struggles along with the team's overall offensive struggles kind of compound the issue so the good news for cardinals fans is that both these guys have plenty of familiar uh familiarity hitting at chase field paul gulshman especially um and it would sure be nice to get them going but yeah

Starting point is 00:07:13 There was one thing to be concerned about this early in the season. I would have put money on pitching. Definitely wouldn't have done the offense, but here we are. Yeah, well, that's baseball for you for sure. I know this is Paul Goldschmidt's, the last season of his deal. I'm sure I've definitely heard from Diamondbacks fans that, you know, maybe there's hope that Paul Goldsmith plays for the Diamondbacks again. But I know there's been, I've at least read some stuff about Goldie potentially being a fit

Starting point is 00:07:42 to resign back. with St. Louis. What do you, I know it's really early, I don't know if those conversations are really even being had, but what is your sense of that situation? You know, it's funny because usually the Cardinals have a patented spring training extension. And I think we were all kind of looking at Paul Goldschmidt because why not? I mean, this is a guy who wants to be in St. Louis and the Cardinals certainly love having him. But after conversations over the off season that Paul had with John Loseilock, their president of baseball operations, Moe kind of wanted to see where the team was at.

Starting point is 00:08:13 coming into the middle of the season. So, and that makes sense, right? If the Cardinals have another year that was below their standard, could they offload Goldschmidt? Could they offload Aronado and try to do their version of a rebuild? Potentially, would I still think that the odds of Goldschmidt signing an extension in St. Louis are higher than that? I do think that.

Starting point is 00:08:33 But no extension for Goldschmidt this spring and said they extended manager, Ollie Marmel wasn't the extension that we thought was going to happen. But, you know, they are consistent. I will say that. So for right now, I think it's just wait and see for Goldschmidt. I know that neither side is definitely. They don't definitely want to part with each other. But how the team plays over the first half could dictate whether or not that extension gets done.

Starting point is 00:08:54 Interesting. So looking at these starting pitching matchups this weekend, it's Stephen Mats against Brandon fought tonight. Kyle Gibson and Ryan Nelson on Saturday, Miles Michaelis against Zach Gallen on Sunday. The Diamondbacks miss Sunny Gray here. They also miss Lance Lynn, whose last trip to Chase Field. did not go particularly well.

Starting point is 00:09:15 It did not. It was not a great time for him. I imagine maybe he's not too disappointed about not pitching in this series. But what should Diamondbacks fans know about Matt's Gibson and Michaelis? Have those guys been trying anything new this year? Are there any new developments? I know all of those guys are veterans and have been around for a while. I feel like it's pretty status quo for Kyle Gibson and Miles Michaelis.

Starting point is 00:09:40 Kyle Gibson's had an excellent start for the Cardinals and a not so excellent star for the Cardinals, but both times he's been able to reach into the sixth inning. That's kind of their, what they're looking for for Kyle is to go out, get quality innings go deep into ball games. Miles Michaelis has notched back-to-back quality starts. He's a striped thrower. He pitches fast. I mean, the book's out on Miles Michaels.

Starting point is 00:09:59 If you can beat him in the zone, you'll have some luck in hitting the ball out of the ballpark, but he's been pretty effective in mixing up his pitch arsenal to lead to those back-to-back quality starts. Stephen Matt's is the most interesting of these pitchers. He's been on a pitch count for his first and second start, but that should be lifted for Friday's game. He should be full go, according to manager, Olly Marmel, said that on Wednesday. And the reason that the Cardinals have put him on a pitch count to start the season

Starting point is 00:10:26 and were deliberately slow in building him up during spring training is because he's had a lengthy injury history in St. Louis. And the Cardinals thought by just taking their time, stretching him out slowly, and kind of introducing him back into the season. would be best for him long term. So far, so good. Matt's has an ERA of 174. He's looked really good in his first two starts. He's utilizing a sinker that's VLO is up to 95, 96. That's much higher than his whole career. And he's gone to the change up more than the curveball. He's essentially using a two-pitch

Starting point is 00:10:57 mix, but he's done so, so effectively, that it's led to some really encouraging results. So I think it'll be interesting to see what Stephen Matz does in his first start with no limitations, how he's going to use that pitch mix, because I think he could be a game changer for the rotation should he be able to stay healthy. Didn't Miles Michaelis make a comment over the offseason? I have the phrase Midwest Farmers in my head. Oh, that's, yeah, that's a thing. When he was talking about the Dodgers and their offseason spending, can you take

Starting point is 00:11:26 us inside that moment? What exactly happened there? Yeah, we were meeting up with him after a start against the Nationals in spring trading in West Palm Beach. And he would just been named the opening day starter in place of Sunny Gray, of course, who went down with that hamstring strain. And, you know, Miles Michaels is an authentic guy. He's not afraid to say what he thinks.

Starting point is 00:11:46 And I appreciate that about him. But he basically compared pitching for the Cardinals, you know, a bunch of Midwest farmers, which is funny because most of those guys are from like Florida, including Miles, to billion dollar baseball, which is what he accurately termed Los Angeles Dodgers. Sure. But, you know, I thought it was a good test for Miles to go out there and face that lethal Dodgers lineup.

Starting point is 00:12:07 DeBax fans will get to know all about that. That team in the division must be fun. But yeah, that's just Miles being Miles. And he's going to go out and say whatever he wants. And the thing about Miles is that if he says something and it blows up in his face, he's still there the next day, ready to talk about it. You know, it's just kind of a, it's nice to have a little bit of personality on this Cardinals rotation. That's for sure.

Starting point is 00:12:27 Yeah, yeah, you have to respect that as a journalist. I mean, what more can you, what more can you ask for for sure? Jordan Walker, to me, seems like a pretty important player for this team. just him kind of getting going. He's at least one of the reasons why I picked the Cardinals to win this division. If he comes out and hits the way that some people have expected or thought that he could, that could change the calculus. What have you seen from him here in the early going?

Starting point is 00:12:55 It's been a tough start for Jordan Walker at the plate. He doesn't really look like he has his timing down. He looks like he's searching, especially against the off speed. Just looks a little bit in his head. On the bright side, the defense is certainly much better. I think we're well aware of the Cardinals turning Jordan Walker from a third basement to an outfielder, basically at the major league level. It did not go well for him in the first half of that experiment.

Starting point is 00:13:18 But credit to Jordan, he really took his struggles to heart and he spent the whole offseason down in Jupiter, Florida. He actually moved there and worked out at the Cardinal spring training complex every day with a bunch of instructors to improve his defense. And already, you can see that it's much better. Now, am I for claiming that he's a gold glove right fielder? No, certainly not. But he's definitely looking more closer to league average than before. And hopefully the bat can follow through it because I agree with you, Jesse. He's absolutely instrumental to this Cardinals team.

Starting point is 00:13:45 When you look at guys like Paul Golishman, Nolan Aronado, you know the power is coming there. Same with Wilson Contreras. But for this lineup to really click and succeed the way that it's designed, Nolan Gorman and Jordan Walker are equally as important. Hasn't really been the start that Jordan Walker has wanted. But maybe again, change of scenery, going to chase field, playing some ball in the desert could help. well i guess i guess we'll see what happens here katy two six and seven teams uh going going going head to head some some interesting pitching matchups and uh it's it's certainly too early to

Starting point is 00:14:16 tell but we'll see if i look like an idiot it went all said and done for taking the cardinals to to win the central i still holding still holding out some hope that the cardinals like they just can't have back-to-back seasons like missing the playoffs and being a bad baseball team there's just something like deep ingrained within the universe that would not allow that to happen. But I don't know. Last year was weird and this is an okay off season for them, it seems, but maybe not what people were really hoping for. So I guess we'll see what happens. Yeah, it should be, if anything, an interesting division who would have thought in the NL Central that all these teams would be over 500 for two weeks. But I don't see that lasting. So we'll see.

Starting point is 00:14:56 Yeah, we were talking on our show about how all the central teams just like heard the outside noise. They heard all of the hatred from all of the pundits. And so they've been responding. And they've certainly, yeah, a bunch of essential teams, not only in the National League, but in the American League as well, have started off pretty well. But thank you so much again, Katie, for hopping on today. This was a lot of fun. And we'll see what happens this weekend.

Starting point is 00:15:19 Yeah, thanks, Jesse. Thanks for having me.

PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - D-backs-Cardinals: Katie Woo on Goldschmidt’s struggles, Mikolas’ ‘midwest farmers’ comment and more

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