PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Diamondbacks Mike Hazen Expects Market To HEAT UP After Juan Soto Signs With Mets

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Become a PHNX Diehard for just $4 a month! http://gophnx.com/intro-offer-youtube They may call them the Winter Meetings, but things might finally be heating up for MLB’s free agent market after Juan Soto reportedly agreed to a massive 15 year, $765 million deal with the New York Mets. Jess Friedman joins the show from Dallas with more on how Mike Hazen views the signing and how it will impact the Diamondbacks moves this offseason. PLUS! We also have more from Hazen and Torey Lovullo on the D-backs pursuit of a closer, Adrian Del Castillo’s role in 2025, and more. Plus, we are discussing the other big moves that went down over the weekend including Willy Adames signing the biggest free agent contract in Giants history. Join Derek, Jesse, and Kevin for the PHNX Diamondbacks Show LIVE! An ALLCITY Network Production SUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtube ALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsports MERCH https://store.allcitynetwork.com/collections/phnx-locker ALLCITY Network, Inc. aka PHNX and PHNX Sports is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by the City of Phoenix PHNX Events: Get your tickets to PHNX events and takeovers here: https://gophnx.com/events/ bet365: https://www.bet365.com/hub/en-us/app-hero-banner-1?utm_source=affiliate&utm_campaign=usapp&utm_medium=affiliate&affiliate=365_03485317 Use the code PHNX365 to sign up, deposit $10 and bet $5 to get $150 in bonus bets! Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and physically located in AZ. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-NEXT-STEP, text NEXTSTEP to 53342 or visit https://problemgambling.az.gov/ Branded Bills: Use code PHNX at https://www.brandedbills.com/ for 20% off your first order! Gametime: Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Circle K: Join Inner Circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today! Head to https://www.circlek.com/store-locator to find Circle Ks near you! Shady Rays: Exclusively for our listeners, Shady Rays is giving out their best deal of the season. Head to https://shadyrays.com and use code: PHNX for 35% off polarized sunglasses. Try for yourself the shades rated 5 stars by over 300,000 people. Check out FOCO merch and collectibles and use promo code “PHNX10” for 10% off your order on all non Pre Order items. Rugged Road: Gear up for your next adventure with Rugged Road Coolers - Your ultimate outdoor companion! Head to http://ruggedroadoutdoors.pxf.io/ALLCITY and use code PHNX for 10% off! Get 10 FREE meals at https://hellofresh.com/freedbacks. Applied across 7 boxes, new subscribers only, varies by plan. When you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. #dbacks #diamondbacks #arizonadiamondbacks #mlb #zacgallen #corbincarroll #ketelmarte #mlbtheshow #mlbtraderumors #tradedeadline #traderumors #allstargame Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

They may call them the winter meetings, but they are heating up with all of this free agency talk. Juan Soto signs a massive contract, so now everybody else can figure it out. We have Jesse Friedman joining us from Dallas, and we are talking about all of this, including comments from Mike Hazin and Tori Lavallo on today's show. We will start in 30 seconds. Don't you go anywhere? Welcome in to another edition of the PHNXDVACs podcast right here, PHNX Studios. My name is Derek Montia, occasionally known as the mayor of W. winter. And I am excited to be joined by the only person that can, you know, make this show

better than me having to go to the Waffle House after losing our fantasy football league here at PHNX. So one and only Jesse Friedman joining us from DLS Studios, DLLS studios there in Dallas, Texas. Jesse, how is, how is your snow slide ride? Have you ridden the snow slide in the lobby of your hotel yet? I'm not going to take any answer. But yes, and to tell me how exciting it was. Oh, well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, Derek, but the snow slide is still, much to my chagrin, blocked off to the public. Apparently, there's some sort of sign somewhere that says that it will be accessible

for both children and adults, potentially opening the door for someone in my position to go for a ride down the snow slide. But as of right now, it is still blocked off. so no snow slide ride has been taken just yet. I'm curious. Like obviously this probably has nothing to do with the winter meetings, but it has to do with the winter meetings. It has to do with someone needing to see Jeff Passon slide down a slide in the lobby of this hotel.

I think Jeff would be the first one that we would all throw down the slide for sure. I mean, I would definitely get on board with that. myself. I do know that Jeff, I think he has probably still somewhat of a bad back situation. Some people might have heard the very unfortunate story where I think a tree fell on him or something along those lines. It was absolutely terrible. We're thankful that Jeff is okay. Maybe it wouldn't be the best move for him specifically to go down the slide. But I would be, I would be willing, Derek. But as of right now, there is no actual snow on the slide. Presumably they're going to add like face of snow of some kind.

But yeah, it's just completely blocked off. So stay, stay tuned. We've got, we've got a couple more days. Shane says don't come back from Texas if you don't ride the snow slide. Like you're not allowed back. I know we've said that about a lot of things,

but this definitely, there's an emphasis on this. We do have Kevin here on the ones and twos today. I got to give a shout out to large intimate. Kev Thomas. Kev, do you have a, by chance,

the tweet of this stuff that we're talking about? Because I'm sure there might be some people not really know what we're talking about. This is an image taken by one Tim Healy of the snow slide in the lobby of Jesse's hotel. So this is what we're talking about. And this is the only thing that this is the only thing that we care about right now. Forget the winter meetings. Forget MLB free agency. Forget Juan Soto's contract.

This is all we care about right now. And that's what people in the chatter say. They want video of Jesse going down it. It might be the only good thing that happens this week. As our known baseball GM, Elise says, Did you see a lease at the winter meetings yet, Jesse? Have you bumped into Elise and her true identity by chance? I can't be sure.

I mean, I think I probably have, but I'm not exactly sure which executive she actually is. So it's hard to say. Well, the thing people really care about is how is Mike Hazen doing and what is the state of the Arizona Diamondbacks here at the winter meetings? Obviously, we know things don't exactly happen quickly. but with the Juan Soto news, it feels like now the log jam might be cleared a little bit. We can see some of these, you know, where these players end up. Absolutely. Yeah. Mike Hazen said, we talked to him for about 20, 25 minutes today. So there's a lot of different topics that we'll get into over the course of the show.

But yeah, where the conversation started was basically the state of the market and the fact that Mike does believe, he said based on what he's hearing, as well as some conversations that the Diamondbacks are having. with, you know, agents of players that they're interested in. The things are going to start moving a little bit here now that Juan Soto has come off the market, which, by the way, $765 million is a heck of a lot of money. We'll have a conversation about Juan Soto later in the show because even I, I don't know if I saw the number getting quite that high. It's absolutely outrageous.

But yeah, now that Soto's off the market, we did see a couple of other smaller moves today, Jordan Romano to the Phillies, Alex Cobb reportedly signed with the Detroit Tigers. Still a lot more pitching than hitters that have come off the market so far. But my catchers too. Yeah, yeah, it's been interesting. But Mike Hazen said he thinks that the full, every corner of the market should get going a little bit now that Soto is off the market. I mean, it makes sense because this is like what we talked about last year with Shohei Otani. Not every team is setting aside Otani or, you know, Juan Soto money, but the teams that are trying to budget for that now do have not exactly, you know, this entire amount of money to spend on other players.

But, I mean, now that you are no longer in the Juan Soto sweepstakes, you can now invest that money elsewhere. And I mean, so far from what we've seen, it feels like teams are kind of overpaying for a lot of these guys now, especially maybe some of these teams that have, you know, had that money set aside to spend on Soto like the Yankees or maybe even, you know, God forbid it, the Dodgers. But I will say that it's crazy to spend that much money on one player. And I mean, the Diamondbacks aren't a franchise that really could ever consider even doing something like that. Like that's just such a vast overpayment for one singular player.

It's crazy to think that at one time the contract for Juan Soto was $600 million. and it somehow ballooned 165 million more than that. But like you said, we'll talk about Juan Soto later in the show for sure. We do need to know about the Diamondbacks. So we haven't seen the Diamondbacks make any moves. We also haven't seen any really of their players aside from Kevin Newman get picked up yet by other teams. So we still have Christian Walker, Jock Peterson floating out there. Still nothing on those guys yet.

Nothing, nothing as of right now. It does feel like Christian Walker is a pretty reasonable pivot for some of the teams that missed out on Juan Soto. I guess I'm thinking of the New York Yankees in particular who have reportedly been interested in Walker. Of course, they're not the only ones. I've heard the Mariners there as well. Maybe the Astros having some interest among other teams. Shane's still in the building, Jesse. Do not start with any of the talk.

I will say and we'll dig into the Soto deal more later in the show. and some of the ramifications, but it doesn't feel like it helped the diamondbacks exactly, you know, thinking about what a Walker or a Jock Peterson would be worth on the open market. Certainly those guys are in a completely different category than Juan Soto. I mean, they're not 26 years old, right?

There's factors beyond just Juan Soto being very good at baseball that led to this magnitude of a contract. But after the number soared that high, it's like, you know, is Christian Walker really going to get 50 million over, three years. That's a little bit of a tough sell for me. So yeah, we'll see, we'll see where those markets go here in the coming days. I wouldn't be surprised if Christian Walker gets north of 75 million, to be honest. I mean, that that wouldn't be a shocker at all. And considering his age,

like, it's surprising. Like, I know we don't, we don't really talk about a lot because Walker does not play like a man of his age. But he is like outside of, I think Carlos Santana and Justin Turner, he's one of the oldest first baseman on the free agent market so it's just wild to think of you know again you always think of p elonzo and you think pto lonso and he's kind of past his prime and he's actually considerably younger than christian walker so i don't think it's the worst move in the world for um the diamondbacks to kind of be upgrading here or not upgrading but not pursuing walker uh considering the market that he's going to get it sucks it hurts to say that uh however However, between the draft pick that they would receive if Christian Walker does sign with another team above 50 million and, you know, again, his age and what he's going to potentially sign for.

I don't know if the diamond back should commit that much money to Christian Walker, whatever he ends up getting offered. Well, yeah, we'll see how the market develops. I wouldn't necessarily count the diamondbacks out entirely, but it does feel like the market would have to soften in a way that right now is not really. look like it would fall in line with some of the other deals that we've seen happen so far. So yeah, if you're a Diamondbacks fan, you're really hoping for Christian Walker to, you know, suit up in Sedona Red again in 2025. You might want to gradually let go of that dream because I'm not so, I'm not so sure that's the direction that we're headed here.

Well, what is the direction of the Diamondbacks? I know you had a chance to talk to Mike Hazen today. and I mean again, I know we talked about the market. I know that a lot of these signings are going to impact what they can do. But how does Mike Hazen feel that this team is set? And what pieces are they truly pursuing as like must haves this offseason? I think it's, you know, I wouldn't say that anything we heard today is all that different on that front from what we've heard in the last few weeks. The Diamondbacks certainly want to add to the bullpen.

and they certainly want to add to the middle of their lineup as well. Something interesting that was a discussion point today was just an identity change, the idea of an identity change for this Diamondbacks team. Mike Hazen talked about how after you lead the league and run scored, like what are the odds of doing that again? And beyond that, the fact that this team, as we were just saying with Walker and Jock Peterson, like wouldn't be a shock if both of those guys moved on and signed with other teams. that's a lot of power in the middle of your lineup and yes I you know the this team is

certainly going to look to replace some of that but are they going to be able to get all of those you know 50 60 home runs back that they're losing in free agency probably not and I think that can be okay what Mike basically said is that if they're able to improve their run prevention to the degree that they want to they can stomach you know falling from first in runs scored down to, you know, somewhere in the middle of the pack or hopefully still above average. You don't know exactly where it would land. But they don't need to score the most runs in baseball again to be a competitive team in 2025. At least that's the idea that they're running with. And I think it's fairly reasonable. I mean, this is a pitching staff that had high expectations

in 2024. And even if the Diamondbacks did nothing to change the pitching staff, you still figure that they'd have maybe a little bit better injury luck. And some of these guys who have decent track records or some of these young pitchers that this team has had high expectations for over these last couple of years, that those guys would be able to step up and sort of take that next step

in a way that they couldn't in 2024. I think the problem with their offense last year was the feast or famine nature of it, right? And it was their inability at times to find creative ways to create runs, to create offense to get things going when the long ball and the power wasn't there, right? And I mean, that's something that this team

had as their identity in 2023, didn't have as their identity really in 2024. They still did a good job of manufacturing runs at times. And, you know, that's why they were able to be the highest scoring offense in the league. However, I agree with what you're saying. I agree with what Elise said in the chat. I don't think that this team needs to have that identity

when didn't really work out in 2024. They did win 89 games, and that's still an impressive amount of games to win. However, you know, you came one game short, and you had the third, fourth, worst pitching staff as far as, you know, the numbers were concerned last year. I don't believe that this is that pitching staff. I think this pitching staff is much better than that.

And I honestly believe they're going to be better in 2025. I think if the Diamondbacks didn't do anything at all, to both their starting rotation or their bullpen. I honestly think they would be fine. I know that's crazy to say because we have talked at length about them going out there and wanting a back end reliever, a closer, somebody that can come in. I just think that they could potentially have those candidates already here. And I don't hate that idea.

I just, it's about performing. I think this team is very capable of having a much better pitching staff in 2025 without even changing things, you know, just staying healthy. Yeah. You know, having the new pitching coach and maybe a new philosophy come in and and help these guys get back to where they were one year prior. And that I think is why you're maybe not so excited about the idea of trading in Jordan Montgomery in a sense. You know that. We discussed the other day.

Like you would, you would hate for Jordan Montgomery to go to another team and be everything that you hoped he would be. And then, you know, that other team is sort of getting a bargain in whatever that deal looks like. Of course, we don't know exactly what it would look like right now. But yeah, starting pitching is clearly something. That was another major point of discussion today was just the depth that this team has. And the fact that if you did move one of those six starters, like you are cutting down your starting pitching depth. And let's face it, the Diamondbacks are going to need more than five starters to get through the 2025 season. any more than six starters to get through the 20-25 season. So it is a gamble in a sense to move

someone out of that group. But what Mike Hayeson said today was there's just so many guys that, you know, it's maybe not that you're banking on Yobre Diaz to be a number two starter or something, but the volume of options that they have that they like in Yolbert Diaz and Christian Mena and in Tommy Henry, who Mike Hazen spoke very highly of today, Blake Walston, you know, the list goes on, Slade Chaconi. There's a lot of guys here that, you know, if they all have a decent shot at being major league starter someday, you figure that with that many different options, someone is going to be able to figure it out and contribute when inevitably you need some of those depth pieces to step in. Well, uh, what, what is the overall feeling here as far as, you know,

if the diamondbacks do trade a pitcher that it is 100% going to be Jordan Montgomery. We saw that Bob Nightingale piece the other day, that he wrote that it sounded like they actually did try to make that Montgomery for Cody Bellinger move happen and that didn't happen. It sounds like they're trying to make something with Montgomery happen and it's not going to really happen. That seems like the feeling there that's going to be a hard sell to get another team to pick up Montgomery's contract.

I think it's possible that there are other teams that are interested. I think there are other teams that are interested. The issue for the Diamondbacks here is that Jordan Montgomery is probably not going to be the first choice for those other teams. And so you run into an issue with like how long are you going to have to wait out these other teams before maybe they're willing to pivot from their number one option or their number, you know, their top options and then wind up trading for Jordan Montgomery instead. One topic that did come up today was the idea of trading a Zach. gallon. I asked the question about, you know, the Milwaukee Brewers and what they did last offseason with Corbin Burns. Similar situation with Juan Soto and the Padres, right? The Padres dealt Soto with one year of team control remaining. And, and yeah, Mike Hazen was was pretty

clearly against the idea of trading a gallon, trading, I think more so gallon is who we were talking about, but Merrill Kelly is sort of in a similar situation there as well. Hazen said he wants to add to he wants to make this team better he doesn't want to he doesn't want to take pieces away he views 2025 as as being a really important season for this team and and understandably so and you know maybe he acknowledged that maybe he's in the wrong to to really want to keep someone like zach gallon and and resist the urge to try to flip someone like that for more long term pieces but he's like you know this is a really big year for us and and we want to go out and try to win as many games as we can and it's hard to do that when you when you trade away your best starting pitcher that's the thing about

the way this team is constructed right now is like we we barely got to see this team all together i feel like you know maybe maybe a month and a half if that uh and that even had some injuries sprinkled in there it's like this team in 2024 managed to win 89 games with having merrill kelly and Eduardo Rodriguez out for half the season, right, for losing, you know, really more than that. I mean, it was more than that, right? Like, I mean, four plus months for both of those guys. Right. And I, again, the fact that they were able to band-aided at times with Jill Burr-Diaz and the way that Ryan Nelson stepped up and became a stud in 2024, like it was impressive that this team got to 89 wins. I think we might be done and past that morning period of the season and the

disappointment it was that they didn't make the playoffs. We could talk a lot about that Brewer's game. We could talk about a lot of games that happened over the season where if they had just won one of those games, they would have been in a different spot as far as playoff contention. I still think that this team at 100% in 2025 is pretty damn good. And I can understand where Mike Hazen is coming from when it comes to that. The desire to move that gallon is there. And yes, as you and I have discussed, they'd get more for him if they did it in the beginning of the season than they would at the trade deadline.

However, if this team is bad, come the trade deadline, it's going to be incredible, like Mike Hazen could go nuts and really just get an absolute haul for a couple of these guys with expiring contracts for teams that are in a playoff race that could really tip the scales in one way or another.

We're not just talking about, you know, a guy like last year, you know, no offense to, you know, someone like Jack Peterson or whatever. Jack Peterson was very good for this team. Jack Peterson isn't going to do for another team. What Zach Gallant is going to do for another team if traded at the trade deadline for that, you know, two months span going into the playoffs potentially.

So if that comes, then Haysen can go nuts at that point. But I think being all in on this season is smart. I think this team is not that far away from being a fairly complete team. And again, with the maturity of some of the young guys, we might see, you know, a better, better season, you know, with with barely, barely a different roster. Yeah.

And on that topic of trading gallon, a really interesting point that Mike Hazen made is he was asked about Paul Goldschman. And there was another really good player that had one year left until free agency. And Mike Hazen did trade that player. And it did not end very well for him. But he was asked, what was different? Like, why were you willing to part with Goldschmidt then and you're really hesitant to part with someone like Zach Allen right now? And his answer made a lot of sense.

He said that that 20, I guess it would have been 2019 team didn't have the same depth that this team did. You know, he referenced Adrian Del Castillo and how the Diamondbacks, you know, when they had a needed catcher this past season, Adrian Del Castillo comes up and has a 900 OPS. And that and that sort of played out over and over again, at least on the offensive side, pitching, maybe a little bit less so this last year. But still, as I was saying earlier, this team has a number of young starters that they feel pretty good about.

You know, whether those feelings are justified, I guess we'll see. 2024 wasn't necessarily encouraging for some of those young pitchers. But yeah, Mike Hazen believes in this 2020, this 2025 roster's ability to withstand some of the injuries. And basically it came down to that 2019 team needed everything to be perfect. in order for them to truly be contenders,

whereas this 2025 roster that we're looking ahead to has a chance to sort of withstand that storm in a way that the 2019 team couldn't. And so that makes Mike Hazen just feel better about trying to be aggressive and keep someone like Zach Gowan rather than sort of peel some of the pieces back and try to set yourself up for the future. Well, you bring up Adrian Del Castillo.

I know we have a clip here from Mike Hazen in regards to just being asked about Del Castillo's role in 2025 and if he would consider using him as a designated hitter or what is what his primary role? Yeah. Yeah, the question is basically would you consider trying to make Del Castillo into some sort of utility player getting him involved in other positions, maybe in the outfield, maybe at first base? And as you can hear in this clip, Mike Hazen was not not so on board with that idea. thought about it yes are we planning on doing it no okay it could be a dh candidate for you though right probably not i mean i think could he come up if something happened and end up dhing yes what is that what am i trying to build a team with him as a potential dh candidate no no no i want to take him

up from you how to play that it's interesting it's interesting to hear him kind of reference the the dh role like that it is yeah i mean I wouldn't say I've ever felt like, you know, penciling in Adrian Del Castillo as your full-time DH, I guess at least against Ritey's, maybe some sort of a platoon situation. I've never really bought that as a viable strategy for this team. Number one, because Del Castillo is a really young player and sort of unproven, frankly, even though, yes, the numbers in 2024 were awesome offensively. No doubt about that.

I mean, it's an OPS. It starts with a nine. that's going to get your attention for sure. But he also struck out, you know, 32% of the time, which is a really high strikeout rate. You look at some of the expected stats. The expected stats saw an actual, you know, below average hitter or right around league average, if anything, a little bit below average compared to the hitter that we saw. So, you know, between that and the fact that Del Castillo is definitely going to make himself

into the best long-term asset for you possible by becoming a catch. becoming a viable catcher and contributing some value defensively. You know, at this stage in his career, do you really want to move on from any of that? I was sort of doubtful of that as well. So, yeah, it sounds like Del Castillo in 2025 is still going to be a catching option for this team and might not necessarily be on the opening day roster. We've talked before about the Diamondbacks maybe wanting to add some catching depth. You know, maybe Jose Herrera is the backup.

maybe there's someone else out on the market that the diamondbacks ultimately decide to bring in. But I don't think Adrian Del Castillo is necessarily a big part of replacing, you know, the Christian Walker home runs, the Jock Peterson home runs, at least not right out of the gate. Jay says in the comments, I don't like that statement right there. He could come up. That means more Jose over ADC. Not good. I don't think that's something to worry about Jay. I will say that when it comes to young players, players in the organization that are in AAA, the diamondbacks would much rather that they were there playing every day, especially a player like Del Castile, like what Jesse's saying, player that is still getting better and still trying to hone their craft as a defensive catcher, which is the primary goal there is to make him an actual asset at catcher, right?

Like, you can't really do that if you're D-Hing at a major league level or if you're basically a backup catcher at a major league level. He would get his reps. You know, Tori's going to make sure, you know, the, the, that you know, Gabby gets his time off. It's just not going to be the same as him playing every day and,

and, you know, just becoming better every single day. So I don't think it's anything to look into yet. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Del Castillo eventually get called up this season to maybe, maybe maybe be that backup role. It's just not time for it yet because he does need to play every single day. It's just,

it's, it's frustrating with baseball, though, because we see this with young players where we want them to get called up. You would almost rather than be on the major league roster. so they can start gaining experience, start learning, start, you know, just start becoming a big leaguer, right? But unfortunately, when you do that and you're in that backup role, you're going to be reduced to pinch hitting and DHing and playing every five days,

maybe, something like that. Like, it's just not great for you if you're still in the development, you know, phase of your career. So it makes sense why they don't want to do that with Del Castillo. We will talk more about the winter meetings on the other side of this break. and we will confirm with Jesse that he has not been kidnapped by DLS. I am going to have him throw that little whatever that the Mavs thing on the shelf behind him there in the trash can because I can't stand looking at that anymore. But we'll talk about all this on the other side of this break. Don't you guys go anywhere. If you are going somewhere, Circle K should be part of your journey.

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but we definitely did when we ate giant cheeseburgers and had ourselves a fun time. Had ourselves a little family, D-Back's dinner. Kevin, where were you at? You weren't there, Kevin? I wasn't. No. I guess my invite got lost in the mail or something.

I'm very angry at Kevin, Jesse. He's the reason. Like he says there's other factors, but he's the reason why I'm going to the Waffle House. And like, playoff runs, they get forgotten. But treachery is forever. It's forever. But Jesse, again, people are concerned that DLLS has captured you and made you

one of their own. So I'm a little worried just about that whole thing. And yeah, the, we're, everybody wants us to like green screen out your background or do something about, I like, I don't care about the Cowboys stuff. That doesn't bother me none. but the Texas Rangers flagged that on a Diamondback show. That makes me sick to my stomach.

But you are in Dallas. You are enjoying the winter meeting. So I know we had more from Mike Hazen. I know you also talked to Tori Lovalo, but we brought up briefly there, the reliever with recent closing experience or a back-end reliever, someone that could be the closer for this team.

How important is that for Mike Hazen to find? Obviously, the first basement thing, I know they have options, but I'm sure that's their priority, is closer right up to. with first baseman yeah i asked that question uh to mike how important is it for obviously the dime backs are looking for a reliever a back end reliever but how important is it for this person to have recent closing experience and he said he would like that very much uh so you know whether the diamond

backs are ultimately able to pull that off we'll see it's not necessarily uh a given obviously we're we're going to have to kind of wait and see how the market shakes out but yeah mike was pretty clear that after seeing the impact that Paul Seawald had on this team, which obviously, I know it's, it's maybe weird to think about the impact of Paul Seawald's given how his season ended, but once upon a time, Seawald was a stabilizing presence in the bullpen and highly revered by basically everyone, fans included. And the Diamondback saw firsthand how big of an impact it can be when you have that stabilizing presence at the back end. You know, not to say that Mike doesn't believe in AJ Puck or in Justin Martinez to get some save opportunities as well.

He said that he would fully expect that, even if the Diamondbacks did, you know, find themselves legitimate closer. But they like the idea of trying to add as much length to this bullpen as possible. And finding someone who has that experience in that role would certainly do wonders and allow Justin Martinez and AJ Puck to continue to thrive in that setup type role that they were both so excellent in for much of the 2024. season. So it's clear, Derek, that they want it, whether they're able to get it. You know, you think about the options out there. You think about Tanner Scott. Are they about to give four years and

60 million or whatever that takes? Like, I'm not so sure I see that happening, but it's clearly something that they would like if they can find a way. We've never, we've never had a truly great bullpen, Jesse. And I feel like we're on the cusp of that happening if they're able to make a move like this. And I'll also say this about Paul Seawald. I don't know if this makes me a Seawald apologist. Maybe I just dug his vibe and really like jumping up and down a lot. But like both can be true where you can say the Diamondbacks would not have even made the playoffs in 2020, let alone gone on the run that they did in the playoffs without Paul Seawald. And you can also say that Paul Seawald in the second half may have been responsible for the Diamondbacks not

making the playoffs as well. Right. Like both of those things can live in the same space. And you know, again, it's not entirely on Paul Seawald, but his performance, and then missing him and then trying to figure out what to do with him when he came back from injury really seemed to throw the entire bullpen completely out of whack and i mean some guys stepped up a j puck was incredible justin martinez was very very good at times for this team i think the components are there but if they can add that back end reliever that closer it really does feel like it once again sets everybody up well to the point where like i i mean i don't even know where everybody fits in i mean almost feels like obviously you're going to use a j puck situationally based on you know him being a left

hander there but you got how kevin ginkle and just mr. Martinez would factor in where those guys would pitch it just it feels like you're pretty stack there uh in the bullpen and i mean it also allows for potentially you know if someone isn't as good someone else to step up as well that's that's something that's nice right the depth that they could have there and i i think if you do add a closer what it does for you It's not just about what it does for you in the ninth inning, but it's what it does for you in the sixth inning. You know, it pushes everyone down on the depth chart, right?

It's also what it does for you on days where some of your best high leverage relievers are not available. And I think that's something that we saw at the end of the season, something that Mike talked about today, is that it sure looked like fatigue was a factor for this bullpen down the stretch. Like, you know, Tori Lavello talked about AJ Puck, that day where he gave up. you know, those two home runs in the ninth inning to the Padres in a game the Diamondbacks

absolutely had to have. Like, this team really, really used him in like every, it felt like he was pitching basically every game during those final two weeks because they just, they needed him, right? It was AJ puck and it was Justin Martinez. And those were your two relievers that you really felt the best about down the stretch. The Diamondbacks would like to get to a place, what Mike described today, they'd like to get to a place where the guys near the end, of their bullpen are also able to step in and put out some of those fires and that you're not always having to go to an AJ puck or a Justin Martinez to bail you out in games that you really have to win. And, you know, this Diamondbacks team, Mike also talked about how, you know, for the Dodgers,

this is different. Like the Dodgers can maybe be a little bit less aggressive with how they use their high leverage relievers because the Dodgers are like coasting into the playoffs, right? Diamondbacks need every single win. they can possibly have. And so it's harder for them. It's harder for Tori to not go to AJ Puck, to not go to Justin Martinez in some of those big moments. So for people who thought that, you know,

people who had the criticism that Tori was not going to his best relievers enough, the internal belief for the Diamondbacks is the opposite, that they had to use the guys too much. And it cost them at the end of the season. That's interesting. Well, he did have guys that he relied on and he had to, right? Like don't admit like we all didn't grow.

And even Jesse Friedman at times when certain guys came into the game. He won't admit it, but I'll tell you it happened. And that's because there were certain guys that were just truly unreliable. And the problem is, is that when Tori did call on them, they weren't able to be relied upon. Right. Like that's the reason why you kind of had that feeling. Right. Now next year's different.

We have guys returning. And I know we have a lot still to talk about from Dallas. and we will cover more on the winter meetings, hopefully with some more audio from Mike Hazen and Tori Lavello tomorrow. But I know you also spoke to Tori about the roles of guys like Dre Jameson in 2025 and Slate Soconi. What did Tori have to say in regards to what those guys will be confirmed doing? Yeah, I wouldn't say that their roles are solidified for 2025. But what Tori did tell us today is that both will be stretched out. So they're not viewing either Slade or Dre as like, all right, we want these guys to be one inning relievers and that's it.

Both of those guys are going to be stretched out. Does that actually mean that they're going to throw 160 innings in a starting rotation role? Not necessarily. I think both of those guys really have potential to be excellent relievers. Obviously, it didn't quite work out that way for Slate Cicconi down the stretch. Things were pretty rough. But Dre Jameson, we saw last season, how big. big he was for this team before going down with that injury as a reliever. So yeah, the diamondbacks

are leaving the door open for those guys to start some games. But specifically with Dre, I think it is a lot more likely that we see him in a bullpen role throughout the 2025 season. Interesting. We also know that Tori Lovela had some thoughts on on the golden at bat, Jesse. And I'm sure his thoughts aligned with my thoughts. Yeah, they pretty much. did. Yeah, I asked this question during Tori's presser. It was pretty funny. I know I told you this earlier, but Jason Stark, the guy who wrote the story, the big story at the athletic about the gold and it bad and basically broke the internet. Jason was sitting to my right as I asked this question and like sort of chuckled because I was like asking about his thing really. But I wanted to know,

I wanted to know how Tori felt about it. And I got the answer that I expected, Derek. You know, Tori is never going to, he's diplomatic about it. He's never going to outright say that he's He's totally disgusted by something that he knows Major League Baseball is genuinely considering. So he did sort of cover his bases and say, you know, if Major League Baseball went that route, I would accept it and go along with it. But it was very clear that Tori Lavello was not the biggest fan of the Golden at that rule. Yeah, he said, I think his words were that wouldn't work so well for me. You know, Tori is a traditionalist through and through.

He also was, I think, a little bit hesitant when the designated hitter was not. in the National League anymore or when the designated here was added to the National League, so I'm trying to say. So yeah, Tori's a traditionalist and even when I pitched the idea of Cateel-Marté being able to bat twice in a row

in the ninth inning in a key spot, he was still like, yeah, no, that's not baseball. Like you're changing the DNA of the game is how he described it and he was not a fan. No, no opinion is better than our guy Ryan, right? Ryan Thompson said

as long as we as pitchers get one take backsies. And I want them to be called take backsy. Like it has to be one take backsy per per outing for each pitcher, right? It's ridiculous. But again, we do know that Tori LaVolo, this season wasn't easy on him, Jesse. And it was a little rough moving on. How is he faring these days, especially after spending some time freezing his ass off in Buffalo.

Yeah, I haven't had a chance to ask him about his experience at the Bill's Chiefs game. Hopefully I'll get that opportunity later in the week. But yeah, Tori talked about the process of sort of moving on from what happened during the season. He said that it really, he was sort of able to move on from it during the meeting with during the meeting with ownership that Tori and Mike and the whole group has every year. you know, they were able to say some positive things about what we've said a number of times on this show, like the 2024 season, it didn't end in the playoffs. And for that reason, it was sort of objectively a failure.

But that doesn't mean that there weren't some pretty good things that happened along the way. It doesn't mean that winning 89 games, you know, was a step in the wrong direction. It really was a step forward for this team. Right. The vast majority of the time, 89 wins, especially given, you know, the current postseason filled with the three wild cards in both leagues, that's going to get you in more often than not. So, yeah, it sounds like Tori was able to kind of gain some perspective from that meeting. And I don't know if he's necessarily on the other side right now,

but definitely in a much better place than when the wounds were still fresh. Well, we are going to talk about the wounds being very, very fresh for all the teams that didn't get Juan Soto. And what the Mets signing him to this massive deal means for the Diamondbacks on the other side of this break. thank you guys for being here so much don't you go anywhere we'll be right back if you want to elevate your brand you can do so with our pals over at branded bills the perfect headwear and apparel company we absolutely love all of this stuff we've been getting i'm telling you we get packages here from branded bills and every hat is better than the last one they sent us they just sent us some fire asu hats which let's admit it that school deserves it right now uh and of course you can

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Join a credit union that is committed to giving back to the community and sharing success with Dessertain. their members. When you open a free checking account online right now over at Desert Financial, you can get $200 in bonuses. Get started by visiting desertfinancial.com slash 200. And I know, again, it's this time of the year. It's hard to think about saving money, but you'll thank yourself in 2025 if you maybe get things rolling now and maybe save a little money around the holiday season. I know somebody that has not spent a lot of money this holiday season yet and it's one Jesse Friedman it's not just because he's on the road

traveling there in Dallas it's because this isn't even shopping time for him yet he doesn't even he's not even thinking about what he's going to get people that doesn't start until the 22nd of December but I do know one team that has all of their holiday shopping done Jesse and that

is the New York Mets they've been very active in free agency this off season but they've landed the biggest fish of them all signing Juan Soto to a 15 year $765 million deal that could be worth over $800 million with escalators that could take the money to that. Also, it's wild because there's also this other stipulation where Soto can opt out after

five years, but the Mets can void it by essentially paying him more money, Jesse. So this deal could be worth like an insane amount of money by all is, by by by by time all is said and done. And there's no deferrals in this contract. They learned their lesson from Bobby Bonilla. They said never again. So what are your thoughts, though, overall on this signing? And is this a huge overpayment for a single baseball player?

Yes, it's an overpayment. I'll start there. I don't think it's rocket science to say that one major league baseball player, specifically Juan Soto, you know, honestly, I think that Shohei Otani could be worth this contract in a sense. Obviously, he wound up getting considerably less than this in present day value. I mean, that was $460 million compared to $765. So this, this, my initial reaction was like, wow, that Otani deal was an absolute bargain

because Otani's a guy who is both a hitter and a pitcher, presumably once he gets healthy again. And, you know, Otani rattled off like three consecutive nine war seasons before hitting free agency like he is an otherworldly talents and can bring so much because he does he does both whereas juan soto is not only just a position player derrick but he is not a particularly good fielder or base runner he is just a really good hitter and so he is not actually worth 765 million dollars um i feel pretty confident saying that however it's not take away from the fact that this is an awesome get for the met's um and he is still going to be an outstanding player for them for a long

time, even if his overall production does not necessarily map out to, you know, $800 million worth of value or whatever this, this winds up being. The money, I don't think matters that much. I guess is what I'm trying to say. When you're Steve Cohen, this is really just a drop in the bucket at the end of the day. He won the bidding war. He got his guy. And yeah, it's, it's outrageous. I mean, it's the biggest contract to any professional athlete ever. So it's a pretty, pretty big deal. There are so many comparisons, Jesse. There's been so many. If you go online and look at Twitter, they take his contract and they're like,

like he makes more money than every free agent ever did from 1990 to 1999 combined. He's making more money than like the entire pirate payroll for the last 10 years combined. He's making more money, you know, like that's everything. He's making more money than Tom Brady and LeBron. James combined. It's insane the amount of money. Like you said, it's fine to say that. It's fine to absolutely say that, you know, if you have the money, it doesn't really matter. And that's true. It also is fine to say that in today's day and age, they're, there, we're reaching a tipping point where it's it did it just really has to make you

question if any of these players that these teams are committing these huge contracts do. And you know, in some cases, this one's not being deferred. But with the Dodgers, like, there has to come a time when those deferrals hit them and hit them hard, right, at a very inappropriate time. They might win five championships before any of those deferrals come to hit them and they might not care that at that point, the franchise needs to kind of tighten the belt a little bit or whatever they might have to do. They'll probably still be making money and they'll probably never really hit them, right? But it's just, it's crazy for these teams to be spending this much money on players when, you know, again, they're like, like you said, there's a

rare talent like Otani that's absolutely worth it and outside of that it's just it's crazy it impacts the free agent market for the diamondbacks like you said earlier because we already saw starting pitching kind of escalating and going out of control and now this just furthers the price on guys like jock peterson like christian walker sluggers out there that are putting up really good numbers that you know again based on the market now you you might you know might not be such a bad deal to to pay them a little more than you were planning on or going to offer. So it's, it's just crazy. But it's also the fact that it's not great that, you know, the Mets who did have a role in ending the Diamondback season and not allowing them into the postseason just got better. You know, it would have been

great for him to stay in the, in the AL in some way and not have to worry about him at all. But now we got, we get, we get 15 years of Juan Soto on the New York Mets, Jesse, 15 years. So looking forward to that. Yeah, I mean, you know, at some point Juan Soto is probably going to become a DH. I mean, as I mentioned earlier, he's already not a particularly great defender in a corner outfield spot. And, you know, I understand that Juan Soto was a gold glove finalist this year. But I take that with a grain of salt. There's highlight reels floating around that are, I guess, more like low light reels that show Juan Soto making a number of not so great plays in the outfield this year. So he's probably do that thing. Yeah, I mean, at some point, maybe not that far from now. Juan Soto is going to become a DH and he's going to get paid $51 million a year to do that. And for as unbelievable of a hitter as he is, yeah, he's not, no one can produce $51 million worth of value for that many years as a DH.

It just is impossible. even playing in the outfield the last three seasons. Soto, using this like wins above replacement to dollars calculator that Fancrofts has, Soto's been worth about $47 million or so per year over the last three seasons combined. So even in his previous three seasons where he's younger, he's not producing $51 million worth of value on average. I wouldn't expect him to do that for 15 years moving forward. But again, I mean, this is, this is,

much bigger than just the player that the Mets acquired. This is the Mets making a statement to the universe that they are not the little brother in the Big Apple anymore, right? And that's a pretty big deal. I guess. I not really. Like stay in your own lane and worry about what you're doing. That's one thing that got the Mets to where they were this season

was doing their own thing and not caring what the world thought about them. And in all honesty, a lot of people that weren't Mets fans were kind of on the outside looking in at how much fun they were having and envious of what they had going on. Right. Like they don't need to they don't need to do this swinging to, you know, to prove that they're better than the Yankees. They just could they could continue down the path. I like I feel like when the Mets signed someone for a lot of money, it doesn't work out anyway. And I think Riley in the chat made a great point. He said, I don't mind these deals too much for every

Harper deal. You get a Rendon. And again, you never know when Juan Soto could have absolutely be a Rendon for, you know, the, the Met. So to each their own. But anyway, we'll talk more about the other moves that were made in free agency. We got the Giants spending a whole lot of money, historic amount of money, in fact, on a free agent that you might have already heard about. We'll talk about it on the other side of this break. Don't you guys go anywhere? Of course, PHNX, we've been having some fun with all of our events.

You've got to make sure to come check out everything that we have to offer over a go. p hnx.com slash events we do have our winter pickleball tournament December 14th coming up this weekend at chicken and pickle and glendale I will be out there competing uh I will be out there making a fool of myself uh I will be out there playing some pickle ball with the rest of you and hopefully you guys join me we doubled the field since our first tournament with 48 teams this year all skill levels are welcome including whatever the hell skill level I'm at and uh proceeds are going to operation Santa Claus so it's a great it's a great cause to sign up today

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Restrictions do apply. See Empire Today.com slash PHNX for details. Well, Jesse, the stove is very hot right now. And we have a lot of big contracts being said. Not a lot of big contracts, but a lot of money being thrown in real. There are a lot of deals, like one-year deals, being given out around Major League Baseball. There's a surprising run on catchers right now, which seems a little bit odd. But Willie Damos has found a new home right here in the National League.

And the National League West. It's a new problem we get to deal with. Signs a seven-year, $182 million deal with the San Francisco Giants. It is the largest contract in Giants history, surpassing the $167 million deal signed by, Buster Posey in 2013. Crazy money for Adomis, Jesse, or do you think that the Giants made the right move here? I think this was a good move for the Giants and also that they overpaid, which I guess I might

just be saying overpaid for like every free agent that signs this winter, which I guess at a certain point means not overpaid. Like that's just the market. But my first thought when I saw Adomis get seven. and 182, Derek, was thinking back to when the Diamondbacks played the Brewers in the Wild Card Series last year. And us, like, not even talking about Willie Adomis. Like, he, like, stopping Willie Adomas was not a discussion that we had going into that series. He wasn't, I mean, he actually wound up having a pretty good series.

I think he had three, three hits in the first game. But, yeah, like, this is a guy who went from a player. we weren't talking about entering a postseason series to a guy who one year later is getting almost $200 million in free agency. To his credit, he did have a great season. I don't think that, you know, it's not like an insane overpay. Like he is genuinely a very good player. But given some of the regression that we've seen from him defensively and the fact that

offensively, he's been solid, but the year that he had this season was something of an outlier, I'm not sure that this contract is going to age particularly well for the giants. Yeah, Jay says us DeBax fans think everything is an overpayment. That's true, Jay. It's like when you don't have money to go to a steakhouse with your friends in Las Vegas, right? They might be fine with $125 steak, not coming with a side, but you might not be. You're like $125 and I can't even get some asparagus on the side of it. What the hell is going on here, right?

So different economic levels look at things differently. but I will say that when it comes to contracts that have been signed multi-year deals, I like the Tyler O'Neill deal to the Orioles. I think three years, $49.5 million is actually a pretty good deal by the Orioles there to get, you know, essentially one of the best outfielers on the market. It could be. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, to replace Anthony Santander, you could do a whole lot worse than Tyler O'Neill.

I assume that's what the Orioles are thinking here. I doubt they bring Santander back. So, yeah. Yeah, O'Neill has been a little bit up and down. He's kind of a hard player to evaluate. He's been hurt so much. But he is absolutely ripped, Derek. And when he hits a baseball, it does go, it tends to go a pretty long way.

So, again, that was maybe a little on the high end for Tyler O'Neill. But I probably like the Tyler O'Neill move a little bit better from a dollars and cents standpoint than either a novice or so. I think the thing about it is 15 years, seven years, Jesse, this is crazy. Like we have seen players be great for two years, three years, four years, but like to think Juan Soto is going to be great for 15 years, to think Willie Adomas is still going to be offering you a ton of value in seven years. Tomorrow's money, as you have said many times in the past, is not today's money. So when you're giving these big contracts out, you're doing it with the fact that based on inflation, this is going to be seen as a deal in the future. there was one time where we extended one Cattel Marte and a lot of people were like, eh, I guess, a good deal.

Like it's a lot, but whatever. And it's like, my God, can you imagine if we didn't do that deal now? Right. Like so it's based on how much Cattel would receive now as a free agent versus at the time. That deal seemed good, but it didn't seem like some massive steel that the Diamondbacks got. It's similar to the Corbyn Carroll contract where I have a feeling in a few years, we're going to be like, man, I'm glad we locked that guy up. you know what I mean?

Just because if these contracts keep going in the direction that they're going, the Diamondbacks wouldn't be able to compete to keep their own free agents. And that could be what we're seeing here. Yes, Kevin. I just wanted to interject real quick. I was going to say this earlier about the Soto contract. But, you know, it is an overpayment for a player like Soto. You know, you look at the numbers just straight up and you say that, oh,

Tani is being paid less than Wantsoto. How could that be? But we see this in other sports all the time. For example, in the NBA, Jalen Brown is not the best player in the league. But when he signed his contract, he set the market at what. a player of his level should get. And then all the other players behind him got paid more. It's only a one year difference though, right?

Like if the Otani deal was four or five years in the past, it'd be like, all right, Otani gets 460 present day. Soto gets 765. And granted, I know there's an age gap there too. Like, I don't think it's outrageous for Soto to get a little bit more. But yeah, I felt it at the time with the Otani deal. Like him deferring so much of that money resulted in a present day value that felt honestly really low given the value that Otani brings not just on the field but off the field as well

with all of the opportunities to earn extra revenue that you get with someone like him as opposed to basically everyone else whoever hits the free agent market well Kevin conkeso left us a super chat we love you Kevin he says Jesse is there a bottle the ASU crew left behind you're going to have to go find that ASU water bottle or whatever they left behind so go look for that oh no I think I think Kevin Conkeso is asking if the ASU crew left the DLS crew any whiskey. Oh. If they, I'm pretty sure they didn't.

I'm pretty sure all of the alcohol on campus. You talk about their studio being big. Now there's a bar situation or alcohol. There was a nice whiskey. They took their bottle, drank the bottle, but Kyle did maybe leave a phone. So one for one trade, one for one trade. Find Kyle's phone is what we need to do. We've only scratched the surface on winter meetings.

And Jesse has so much more to. bring us tomorrow so make sure to join us same time tomorrow 6 p m another dbacks after dark just without all the cursing uh jesse would would frown upon it but you can follow us on twitter for more on all this i'm at cap underscore caveman with a k jesse is at jesse n friedman our show is at p h and x underscore dbacks but all roads do lead to at p h and x underscore sports on twitter instagram and facebook we thank you guys so much for your time we will see you tomorrow with more on all these free agent signings and hopefully more for Mike Hazen and Tori LaBello. Until then, we appreciate you so much.

We will see you tomorrow. And remember, kids, baseball is fun, but it's so much more fun when Jesse goes down the snow slide in the lobby of his hotel.