PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Did the Diamondbacks overpay for newly signed starting pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez?

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

The Arizona Diamondbacks made the move fans have been anticipating, signing free agent starting pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez to a four-year, $80 million deal. Did the D-backs pay too much for E-Rod? And will he be the same starter he was in 2023? We also talk about some more options the Snakes could pursue and being letdown by the most recent hype video from Chase Field.An ALLCITY Network ProductionSUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtubeALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsports PHNX Events: Get your tickets to D-backs Takeovers, Knockout Nights & Suns Watch Parties at BetMGM, and MORE here: https://www.eventbrite.com/o/phnx-56002330273 Desert Financial Credit Union: Open a free checking account online with Desert Financial Credit Union and get $200 in bonuses https://www.desertfinancial.com/200Get 10% off your first order of Hero Bread at https://www.hero.co/ by using code PHNXSchedule a free in-home estimate with Empire Today! All listeners can receive a $350 OFF discount when they use the promo code PHNX. Restrictions apply. See EmpireToday.com/PHNX for details.Sign up for Gila River Resorts & Casinos $1,000,000 Big Red’s Showdown! Stay in the game and get rewards; it’s that easy! https://www.gilamilliondollarshowdown.com/Gametime: Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase.Circle K:  Join Inner Circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today! Head to https://www.circlek.com/store-locator to find Circle Ks near you!OGeez!: OGeez! is not your average cannabis-infused gummy. Head on over to https://www.ogeezbrands.com to find out where you can purchase. Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. Four Peaks: Follow them on social @fourpeaksbrew & @fourpeakspub! Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. WYNK Seltzer + THC: Go to https://drinkwynk.com/ and use promo code “PHNX” for 50% off. Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. When you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome in to a celebratory edition of the PH&X D-Backs podcast right here on PH&X. My name is Derek Montia, occasionally known as Eduardo Rodriguez's new best friend. I'm joined, of course, by your Thunderstick and my vice mayor of PHNX, the one and only Jesse Friedman. Jesse, I felt like last night was a fever dream for those of you that didn't join us for our special emergency podcast last night announcing the signing. I still can't believe it. I just still can't believe it. The Diamondbacks, and of course, wait, before we go on, I did need to let you know that, of course, this is the Desert Financial Credit Union transaction of the day, because of course it is. It might be the transaction of the entire winter meetings.

I don't know about that. Obviously, the Juan Soto news is big news. But Jesse, the debacks get Eduardo Rodriguez on a four-year $80 million deal with some kickers, investing options there potentially as well. But just can't get over how excited I am for the Diamondbacks to have fulfilled this big part of their offseason to do list. I did wake up this morning, like, not really, like, did that actually happen? Did we actually do a live show last night? like 11 p.m. Nashville time.

Suffice it to say I haven't slept nearly enough the past few days. So pretty much everything happens feels like a blur. But yeah, this is this is the Diamondbacks biggest need this off season. You said that from the very beginning. They had several different needs. They needed to figure something out at third base. They still need a right-handed bat. We talked about that again yesterday.

But their biggest need this off season was always starting pitching. And we saw in the playoffs, what it looks like when you've just got three viable starting pitchers. Now they have four. Plus, you know, you feel pretty decent, I think, about having one rotation spot taken by a, you know, a Tommy Henry, a Ryan Nelson, a Slade Cicconi, one of those guys battling it out for that fifth spot, if that's what happens. But in the playoffs, you know, you, you, things look a lot better now, right?

If you imagine a seven game series with Gallin, Kelly, you know, Eduardo Rodriguez and Brandon fought, that just looks a whole lot better on paper than having. to use a bullpen game on one of those days. And Diamondbacks now have that viable number three starter that they so desperately needed. It's so insane that we even have to convince people that having a starter is better than a bullpen game. But that's where we're at, you guys.

I mean, obviously that should go without saying. There was a lot of talk at least directed towards me and like on our YouTube about why are you so excited about this? This isn't that big of a deal. He's he's a mediocre mid, you know, mid-rotation. guy. And on one hand, yes, the numbers aren't going to jump off the page at you as some of these other guys. No, it's not Otani. No, it's not what Yamamoto was doing in the NPB and things like that. But the difference here is that the Diamondbacks didn't need that ace. And the Diamondbacks

didn't have that ace kind of money. That's not what they were pursuing. Erod fits exactly what the diamondbacks were looking to do. And I think that's the most important part of it. But they didn't just settle for a guy that we weren't necessarily excited about based on what rodriguez did last year there's a lot to be excited about you know what i mean there's a lot to build on to have an era that sits right in between merrill kellys and and zach gallons is not an easy thing to do it's not like he didn't pitch a lot of innings he had a decent you know a body of work last year i i think there's all the reasons in the world to be exciting about this but also just positivity right that's why i stopped your ass last night from going on about, well, here, let me tell you about the negative side thing.

We're not doing that yet. We'll do that another day. Maybe a day where we're really bored, don't have anything to talk about. Well, we are going to kind of do that a little bit. No, no, no, I'm going there whether I know you are. I have to drag you there with me. But we're going to, we're going to be realistic. I just think it's important to be realistic about what should be expected from

Eduardo Rodriguez and also acknowledging the fact that the last time the Diamondback signed a 30-year-old left-handed starting pitcher. It didn't go particularly well. How dare you? So we're going to get into just a little bit of that today. No, for sure. But the bigger thing here is that the Diamondbacks did get the guy that they have kind of been pursuing for a while.

We brought his name up at the trade deadline. He was one of the guys the Diamondbacks were interested in. Obviously, we have the fact that he's a living legend and he rejected going to the Los Angeles Dodgers, which instantly should make him a favorite in every. diamondbacks fans heart. But per John Morosi, he was impressed by his meeting with the debacks at the winter meetings. Marosi mentioned he was thoughtful of the team's presentation and chance to live in one place year round. And not only is that that's that's got to be very tantalizing, you know, something that Florida and Arizona do have over a lot of the other teams is

that your spring training home is also going to be here. So, you know, there's something to be said about that plus it's a lovely climate to consider after you've been living in Michigan for as long as he has and Boston. Yeah, my understanding is that Eduardo Rodriguez, his family is in Miami. But when he pitched for the Tigers, I don't think his family was actually there with him. I think his family was actually in Miami still. But what's happening here from what it appears, it appears that his family is actually going to move to Arizona and that his family.

is going to be with him there. And I think that was part of this. I don't know why he didn't have his family with him in Detroit. I know Detroit gets a bad rap. I've never been. I don't know if it is fully deserving of the bad rap that it gets. Maybe he didn't feel like he wanted his family to be there. But yeah, it sounds like he is all in on moving his family to Arizona and making this

their long-term home. And yeah, we also got some information about the vesting option. John Heyman tweeted out today that the deal can get up to $100 million. Yesterday, we heard 99, one of those numbers, with that vesting option. And Haman said that it will vest if he gets to 150 innings in years 3 and 4 of this deal. So I guess if things went really wrong somehow or if he just got hurt, he wasn't pitching well, or if he just got hurt, If he doesn't, you know, reach those innings thresholds, then the debacks wouldn't be tied into that fifth year. If he is pitching reasonably well and he's staying healthy and getting to those 150 inning marks,

this is actually a five-year $99,000 million contract, which is big, right? I mean, that's significant to add an extra year onto this deal. But those vesting options, I mean, hitting 150 innings is not super easy to do. No. So, you know, you've got to be pitching at least fairly well in order. in order to get to that point and of course staying healthy. So there is some protection in there for the debacks as well. Looking back in his career, he's only done it three times over his eight-year career.

Last year was one of those instances, 2021 and then 2019. So those were the years where he hit those numbers as far as pitching 150 plus. In 2019, he pitched 203 innings with 34 games started, which led all of Major League Baseball. So durability, I've heard some talk about durability, but I don't know if durability is a huge concern for him, but it's nice to know that that's kind of built into the contract and that that's something that incentivizes him to be, you know, remain healthy and remain active as part of the starting rotation. A couple of other interesting things from John Heyman that came out today. Heyman said that the deal includes a 10-team no trade clause, the exact same no trade clause that he has. had when he was with the Detroit Tigers, the same no trade clause that he used to veto a deal to the Los Angeles Dodgers, as you mentioned earlier.

So that's in there. That's interesting that there's some no trade protection. Another thing that is interesting is Haman reported that some teams were not in on Eduardo Rodriguez this offseason because of an incident we touched on briefly yesterday where he, in the 22 season while pitching with Detroit, he left the team for a period of about two months due to some personal reasons. And looking into that a little bit more, it was reported as being some sort of a marital issue, which I think we can all certainly understand and sympathize with that especially if you are a major league starting pitcher, you know, maintaining good relationships

at home is a challenge that probably does not get talked about enough. So you can, I think very much appreciate, you know, just on a personal level, his willingness to step away from his team and take care of what is genuinely the most important thing, the more important thing in his life, right, which is his family, his relationship with his wife. I think we all get that. But there are some reports at the time of Detroit Tigers GM Al Avila, as well as their manager, AJ Hinch, being a little bit frustrated with a lack of communication and how when he originally stepped away, things were not communicated to them quite as well as they could have.

It sounds like shortly thereafter, those conversations were had and everything was okay, and they had nothing but positive things to say about that process the rest of the way. But I do think there was kind of an initial issue there where he stepped away and it wasn't totally clear exactly what the plan was. So it was interesting to hear John Heyman report that as a reason that teams were maybe a little bit more hesitant to go this route. The tigers did not pay him while he was away. That's part of the way that the contract works.

So it's not like, oh, you're going to, you know, you're going to give this guy all this money and then he's just going to step away and spend time with his family. That's not a concern. You wouldn't be paying him in those situations. But just interesting that that was an actual factor for some teams, you know, as they were thinking about what pitchers they wanted to, they wanted to acquire this offseason. When teams are looking to invest a large amount of money into somebody, they're going to do their due diligence. And it's understandable that things that arise are things that are going to make them apprehensive to want to sign a player to a long-term deal like this.

But I will also say that people having personal matters that they value to be higher than playing a goddamn sport, playing a game, you know, is not something that should suddenly be a cause for concern or cause for. for teams to think that his character is somehow not good enough to invest in, right? Like their relationships last your entire life, this game, if you're lucky, last you 10, 15 years of your life, right? So there are times where you have to value those relationships at home. You spoke about how he is a Detroit Tiger, but his family lives in Miami, which right there, that's enough to put a strain on a relationship for you to not live at home. to be gone for how long the extensive baseball season is. You know, it's 162 games, the longest sport in all the sports.

So it's already difficult on people that actually do just live at home with their spouses to be gone as often as they are during the baseball season. It puts a different level of strain if you're literally not living in the same state as where the athlete is playing their home games. But this for me, this is, and maybe this was the way the Diamondback saw it, the Diamondbacks value family. They value players having those, you know, at least priorities and understanding that sometimes the family is the number one priority.

And the Diamondbacks have kind of expressed at times that that's how they want their players to view it. And that's how they view it in their players' lives. So maybe that was part of the impressive kind of pursuit, the Diamondbacks thoughtful presentation to him that appealed to him to come sign here. But I will say like on a personal note, my wife is the most important person to me. I value that above everything else. And there's times where I'm not going to let anything else get in between, you know, needing to fix an issue that I'm having with my spouse. So like that's definitely understandable. And it also is understandable that you kind of want to keep it private.

I don't feel like going to the team and telling them that me and my wife are, you know, experiencing issues and we might split up or we might divorce and I want to try to prevent. Like that's, that's a me thing. And that's a personal thing. It's very personal if that's what was happening or whatever the issues they were happening. Again, I'm inferring and I'm speculating. But like those issues sometimes are very personal and it can make it a little understandable why he wasn't communicating that to the team and to everybody. It's not like it's an injury. It's not like it's some sort of thing that I have to go do this.

You know, I have a court date or I have this or that, you know, like there's things that like maybe that might, hiding that from the team might be a little different. But this is something that doesn't impact my judgment of him. but you want to go ahead and judge him because I'm seeing some of the stuff in this rundown that I didn't see before Friedman. I don't like where you're going with this. But go ahead, sir, please. Let's let's at least give him some more out of boys before you drag us through the mud. Yeah, I do want to point out real quick that I believe when that whole, that time where he stepped away from the team, I believe he got hurt.

and then it's sort of like blended into that. So I could see. There might have been a little bit of gray area there. It was maybe a little bit unclear like, you know, where the rehab ended and where that began. So you can kind of understand how that issue might have gotten a little bit murky. And again, yeah, I don't view this as being like a character flaw. If anything, I think it's honestly very cool that he was willing to do this, right?

Yeah. Like we were saying earlier, I mean, these are the most important things in our lives. So this is not like, I don't know, I see people talking about Trevor Bauer in the chat. This is not, this has zero, zero correlation. I don't think, I think they're just talking about going after Trevor Bauer. I don't think that they're comparing ERAD to him. But I guess it's more kind of like, you know, thinking it's more like an Anthony Rendon situation, right, with what happened with the angels and how toxic everything seemed to get between him and the media and even maybe the organization. And still, I'm not clear on what's going on there.

He just seems like a very unhappy player. that it's not, doesn't feel like communicating anything about, you know, his injury or anything what was going on. That's, again, a much different situation than a private matter that Erod was trying to take care of. But, yeah, I mean, you know, again, let's take a look, though, of course, at his, let's, let's do baseball savant. We've got the baseball savant numbers.

Because that's a page I want to take a look at. Oh, man, never mind. I don't really want to take a look at this anymore. No, but of course, the story here, Jesse, is that he's, he's fairly average when it comes to most things as far as pitching goes. Yeah, if you look at, if you're on live with us right now, you're watching after the fact, and you can see his savant page like we can. Yeah, it's all right in the middle, you know, like there's no, there's no real red here. I guess, I guess his walk rate, 7.7%. kind of pink

In 2023. Yeah, there's a little shade of pink there. Everything else is kind of grayish. There's a little bit of blue on here. Yeah, he, it is, and this is the reason why I talked about this little bit yesterday that I wanted to temper people's expectations.

I think it's easy to see a guy who had a better ERA than Zach Gallen in 2023 and be like, oh my gosh, like do we have three frontline starters? Do we have like three number ones on this team? Yeah, I don't, I don't, think he's that guy. As you see here, he had an expected DRA of 4.04 based on the Stackcast data. And a lot of these numbers, yeah, are pretty close to average, the strikeout rate, the walk rate. His chase rate was a little bit below average. His whiff rate was also a little bit below

average. And those are two of the numbers that I look at more than anything else. I think that if you have, if you're not getting guys to chase out of the zone and you also are not getting them to swing and miss at above average rates. If both those numbers are a tick below average, it's a little bit hard for me to believe that a guy in that camp is going to be, you know, a really, really good pitcher moving forward. But again, this is not to say that Eduardo Rodriguez is bad by any means.

I think he is a good starter and he showed, you know, he showed that he can be a good starting pitcher in this league in 2023. He's just not super flashy. He's not going to blow you away. He's not, you know, it's just sort of like everything is solid all the way around. And there we go. Gabriel quoted you here, Jesse. He said, DeBacks paid 20 million to get a mid-ass pitcher. Jesse Friedman, 2023. There it is. It's forever. But I agree with Brian here. Strom will make him better. And obviously, there's no,

there's no way to know that for sure. But you get the sense that guys are better when they work with Brent Strom. And Eduardo Rodriguez has shown a lot of promise in his career. And last year, he was just flat out good. He was just flat out good. I don't care. those baseball savant numbers say for a bad tigers team, he was good. So I am very, I'm cautiously optimistic about the improvements that he can make here under Brent Strom, but it doesn't really need to be an improvement. It just needs to maintain what he did last year. Maybe it's a fluke. The peripherals will say that it's kind of a fluke, but at the same time, maybe it's not. And maybe he can come here and maybe he can be that pitcher, much like Merrill Kelly. And I know Merrill Kelly kind of changed.

He got a little more flashy this year. He started getting some more strikeouts and such. But Erod could be that guy that's third in the rotation that just does his job, has a mid-3 ERA and helps this team win 90 games in 2024. Yeah. And I think another thing to Erod's credit is that he has been pretty consistent overall. If you look at, I know some of the ERA numbers are a little bit all over the place. In 2021, he had a 474 ERA.

But in that season, his FIP was actually in the low threes. So it's kind of been, his career has kind of been anytime he had like a really good season, you look at the peripherals and you're like, I don't know if he's like really that guy. And anytime he has a relatively poor season, you look at the peripherals and you're like, okay, well, clearly he got a little bit unlucky here. He's always, at least from like a talent standpoint, his effectiveness has always been reasonably consistent.

This isn't a guy who, you know, was really good at one point. and now is starting to fade a little bit, and you're just hoping that he can kind of keep it together in the second half. As you said yesterday, I mean, 2023, you could make a case, was the best season of his career. I know he finished in Syung voting several years back when he threw 200 innings. He didn't reach 200 innings here in 2023 because of the injury we talked about yesterday.

But, yeah, I mean, he was a really effective pitcher in 2023. And there's good reason to believe that he's not just going to, you know, fall off a cliff all of a sudden or something. He's been a pretty consistent picture throughout his career. And now he's only motivated by being on a team that's a contender, right? And coming out to have a new opportunity, new experience here. There's, uh, bees is a little disappointed. He said perhaps, uh, he said just a little underwhelmed given the options out there.

Perhaps that's my fault for setting my expectations too high. And maybe that's the case. Uh, not to say that you did, but, you know, Jesse and I try to. to be very realistic about the amount of money the Diamondbacks had to spend and they didn't have a lot. And it was going to be very hard for them to go out and get somebody better than like a Seth Lugo or a Lucas Gialito or in this case, Erod for less money than what they're paying. Erod. It was going to be in the neighborhood of 20 million a year.

Maybe you could have gotten them for $16 million a year, $17 million. But it's still going to be in this neighborhood. And I mean, arguably, he is the better guy of the. those of that tier, right, of that mid-tier pitcher that we connected the Diamondbacks to than had been rumored to connect the Diamondbacks. But the recent history of signing guys to deals in that $50 to $100 million range has been murky. There's been some good signings, but there's also been some terrible ones, one we're specifically familiar with, Jesse, which, of course, you want to take a deeper dive into that one. But the good ones are like

Kodai Sena, Chris Bassett. Marcus Stroman. John Gray, right? John Gray is a guy that was incredibly good and probably will continue to be, right? But we also have some of the bad ones. Yeah, it is murky, as you said, for sure. We've seen these deals paying out. Kodai Senga is probably the best example on that list of like,

holy cow, that was a steal. His situation is a little bit different because he came over from Japan. And any time you have someone coming over from Japan, And there's going to be some, there's just more unknown there about how the skills are going to translate. A hesitation to give him that big contract and a hesitation on there and to expect that big contract. But that feels like it's almost ending with what's going on with Yamamoto, right? Like that feels like we might be past those days of thinking Japanese pitchers aren't worth the money and just giving them a huge deal before they even pitch in Major League Baseball. It does feel like Kodi Senga, like his success is probably going to get Shoda Imanaga and Yoshin

Novo Yamamoto. All that much more this offseason, which is funny. But yeah, on the negative side, like the Cubs signed Jameson to a four-year, $68 million deal, something in this range last off-season. It was an absolute disaster. Tion was not effective at all for the Cubs in his first season, and they still have three more years on that deal, kind of wondering if he's even going to be a factor in their rotation at this point.

So that's a pretty bad one. Taiwan Walker also signed with the Philadelphia Phillies, four years, 72 million. He had a pretty decent season. He wasn't terrible for them, but also we saw in the playoffs, the Phillies wouldn't throw Taiwan Walker. They didn't want any part of Taiwan Walker in the playoffs, even though he probably could have given them some meanings at least out of the bullpen.

So yeah, it is a little bit murky. And of course, possibly the real worst example on this list is the deal that the Diamond Beck signed with Madison Bumgarner back in late 2019. Derek, I know you're going to hate me for this, but we are going to go here. First of all, I want to look at Eduardo Rodriguez's 20-23 season. No. Compared to Madison, Don't. No, David, don't. No, we don't do it enough.

No, nope, nope. You can do this by himself. I'm not doing this. You do this by yourself. So here is a comparison, now that it's just me on the show, Eduardo Rodriguez in 2023, compared to Madison Bumgarner in 2019. This is what these pictures. looked like the season before they were acquired by the Diamondbacks.

Why are you doing this? Madison Bumgarner, 207 and two-thirds innings. He had a 390 ERA, a 113 whip. The peripherals there were pretty strong. According to Fangraps, wins above replacement, they were pretty similar. Three wins above replacement for Eduardo Rodriguez, 3.3 for Madison Bumgarner,

Bumgarner more innings. Rodriguez had the better ERA. I know people, I know people are angry at me, but I also think that this is a, this is a really important conversation to have because, because Madison Bumgarner was one of the worst free agent signings in this franchise's history. And in no way am I trying to say that Eduardo Rodriguez is going to be that guy. But it is, I think, very interesting to at least compare them and try to understand why Eduardo Rodriguez would not be that guy, right?

Like, what is it about him that would lead you to believe that he will age better than Madison Bumgarner? Another graphic we have is looking at their last three seasons. No. So this is, this is, this one's interesting too. Erod had a 4.04 ERA in the last three, three seasons. Madison Bumgarner was better at 3.57. Erod had a better FIP over that span of time, however.

So his wins above replacement a little bit higher there. Pretty comparable numbers, though, across the board. Is Derek back with me? Derek is back on the show now. Jesse. Jesse clearly woke up and chose violence this morning. And by the way, I don't want to blame you particularly, but we did lose like 15 followers or 15 viewers.

Just in the period of time that you put these Godforsaken graphics on my screen. Again, no fingers are being pointed here. No, no, none at all. None at all. We're all just trying to find the guy who did this, Damon. We're all just trying to find the guy. Get this off my screen right now. I don't want to talk about this anymore.

Why are you doing this? I get it. I understand. There's some comparisons to be made. That's not the comparison I wanted to be made. But you're right, though. I mean, that's the reason why there are those guys. in my chat that are telling me, why are you so excited for him?

And I guess the idea here is that, you know, there's been those seasons in Eduardo Rodriguez's career. There's also been some very good ones, including his most recent season. That's where I'm at as far as where he's at in his career. Current progress, you know, you mix that with the fact that he was playing for a team that didn't have much to play for. And I think I've probably bashed the Tigers at least six times since, last night when I'm talking about, you know, his season.

And but there's something to be said about still just playing hard for a team that isn't very good. And, you know, he was playing obviously for a contract himself. He was becoming a free agent. But it also feels like, you know, this, this guy might be what we saw in 2023. Is it, is it worth the risk? Well, I mean, it's hard to say that a lot of guys are worth the risk. I'm even seeing some people question if Shohei Otani is worth the money that they're going to give to him, considering that he's not going to pitch next year and there's no way to tell if he's going to be the same guy he was after he comes back. Right. So there's a lot, you know, of risk involved whenever you're giving a guy, I think a deal that surpasses two years. Two years is like

the safe deal. One year with a team option, the safest that you can find out there. But, you know, the four-year, $80 million with the vesting option, at least at the very end, it has some motivation on his end to stay healthy and to keep being part of the starting rotation to help this team win. And I mean, who knows? Maybe one day we're talking about him and Brandon Fott

being the guys leading the way for this starting rotation in the future after Zach Gallin and Merrill Kelly possibly move on. And see, there's me adding on to your heat, Jesse, and just trying to anger the chat even more by bringing that up. But it was not, the comparison was not an inherently evil,

bad thing or literally just looking at numbers. And no way, no way was I ever trying to say that Eduardo Rodriguez was going to age the way that Madison Bumgarner did. I think Gabriel makes a really good point, something I wanted to bring up as well. There's a substantial difference here in just the mileage on the arm.

Gabriel was over 800, 800 career innings. being roughly the difference even more than that between Erod and Madison Bumgarner. That's a really big thing. And that's something that Brent Strom talked about a lot when we were asking about what was going on with Madison Bumgarner and why he wasn't effective. He came back to that a lot, that there's just a point where you've put so much mileage on your arm that it's just not that effective anymore. And unless you're willing to really evolve and try to do things differently,

which we eventually learned Madison Bumgarner was not really willing to do. it's just not going to work anymore. You're going to have to try to figure out a different way to do things. And that's a big reason why I think Erod will, should age much better than Madison Bumgarner. The mileage on the arm is not there. Another factor is that Madison Bumgarner in that 2019 season, there were some warning signs there.

His expected ERA was over four and a half the season prior to the Diamondbacks bringing him in. there was some pretty hard contact that season. You know, obviously he's pitching in San Francisco, you know, a very pitcher-friendly environment. I think he got away with some stuff there. Whereas Eduardo Rodriguez just had a genuinely good season. And was it 3.30 ERA good? The back end numbers don't necessarily support that.

Yeah. Yeah, like we said earlier, but this isn't a pitcher who seems to be regressing. he actually was better in 2022 than in 2021, and he was better this past season than he was in 2022. So he actually, over the last few years, has gotten better, not gotten worse.

But yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no, the show is yours, Jesse. Just please go on.

No, I was just going to say, like, I think the big difference here is coachability, though. Like, you can say all you want about mileage on an arm, but the one thing that we saw out of Brent Strong

with our own eyes in a press conference was a level of frustration that I didn't expect to see Strom express publicly like he did with how difficult it was to coach Madbum and basically say straight up that he didn't want to accept any changes to his delivery. We know, we saw again with our own two eyes what that did for Brandon Fott, what that's done for other guys over the course of a season, making small adjustments, things that Strom notices that can help you. when it comes to your delivery and your your arm angle and, you know, how deceiving you can be to batterers. Like that's Brent Strom's mind. That's his thought process when he's trying to assist these guys. And if you're unwilling to accept coaching, if you're unwilling to have a guy that's that big of a mentor, a legend in the game of baseball help you get better, then you might just be beyond playing the sport anymore because you're still a player. You're still an athlete. And you still have a coach.

You still have a manager. You still have several coaches. That feedback, that coaching is what makes you better every single day. And no matter how old you are, you should be trying to get better every single day, not trying to say, hey, one time I was the World Series MVP and I got it figured out, right? Like that's not how life works. Life is all about getting better and adapting. And the people that can adapt are the ones that usually go on to have a longer,

more successful career than the ones unable to adapt. And that's in any walk of life. Yeah. And I guess to just go to the question, like kind of the big question for today, did the Diamondbacks overpay for Eduardo Rodriguez? The answer based on the current state of the market, as we talked about a little bit yesterday, is no. The Diamondbacks did not overpay for Eduardo Rodriguez. Does that mean the deal is going to pan out and be fantastic and be exactly what everyone wants to be? Not necessarily, but this is the price of doing business, right now for a starting pitcher of Rodriguez's caliber, not a front, not a front line starter,

a mid-rotation guy, $20 million a year. That's where we're at right now. If anyone was hoping to get him for four years and $60 million, I get it. That would have been on paper a much better move for the Diamondbacks. That was never going to happen. There are, there is so much demand right now in this starting pitching market. Four years and $80 million is right in between what MLB trade rumors and fan graphs crowdsource had projected for Eduardo Rodriguez.

There's really no evidence here of some big overpay. This is the price of doing business. And we'll just have to see how it pans out. Well, Jesse, I know that you are still in Nashville. I understand you're living there now for some weird reason. Yeah. Well, I think some people were trying to cancel my return flight the moment I brought up Madison Bumgarner.

So I do anticipate being here for the foreseeable future. It's understandable. It's really easy to contact the airline and pretend you're Jesse Friedman. You saw what AI could do with my voice, so I could easily have AI call Southwest and cancel your flight. But I will say that I hope you get back here soon because I know you missed the Circle K's out here. Have you seen any Circle K's in Tennessee at all? I don't think so. No Circle K in the Gaylord? No Circle K inside that massive hotel?

Honestly, there probably was, and I just didn't comment. So who's to stay? I'll tell you. It's a better Advent calendar than any Advent calendar you can get right now because they have the 31 days of Circle K in the Inner Circle app, which gives you free snacks, weekly entries in the grand prizes, and free discount. So again, we talk about the Inner Circle app. It is the best way to convenience store, right? If you need the convenience store, the best way to convenience store is with the Third. It was with the Inner Circle app.

You can join the Inner Circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today. Terms and conditions apply at participating locations. See CircleK.com for details. But should you join the inner circle, you will get 25 cents off per gallon for your first five fillups, which could be a huge savings around this time of the year. You also get three cents off per gallon every fill up after that and a selection of free products all the time through the app, including a buy five, get a six one free on things like pizza, coffee, and ice cold fountain drinks.

And Jesse and I were talking about, but they'll just email you free stuff. You want a free pizza. You want a free roller item, whatever you want. So check out Inner Circle. Do not miss out on all of those great, great freebies that Circle K is offering today. Also, Arizona Lottery, you know I'm all about it. You know Jesse's all about it because even though Jesse doesn't have to do the work, but he gets to reap the rewards of me scratching these off and sharing my winning.

They do absolutely make the perfect gift this holiday season. Holiday Scratchers are great for last minute shopping. They're great for stocking stuffers. They're great for coworkers. If you want to just thank a coworker, maybe you're giving this. person half a million dollars. Maybe they won't be your coworker for very long if you give them a holiday scratcher card. So like if you think about it, you could give them to people you like, but you could also give them to people in the office you don't like. Maybe they win and maybe

they're out of here, right? That's a good way to get rid of Tootree once and for all. But go get yourself a holiday scratcher today. Get them for everybody on your list. I'm going to go ahead and see if we won today. Jesse, I'm probably going to lie to you if it's a big win. But top prizes do top out at half a million dollars. Go out and buy your holiday scratchers today. the Diamondbacks, of course, has been, they've been scratching those, those items off their scratcher list. We got, we got that scratcher picture updated yet. We got that. Let's get that guy going up there because the Diamondbacks continue to mark off. Got you, Gino, done. Eduardo, done. What else we got? Who knows? We're going to see. But this scratcher list,

the Diamondbacks are doing a great job at nailing all of the items on their to-do list this offseason. And they might not be done yet. One name, and I, I know a lot of you, a lot of you, including Gambo, had to come in here and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, we did get word from a source, dammed back, that maybe the Diamondbacks are looking at Reese Hoskins as a potential fit for their team. Gambo just tweeted that out before we went live, but we have the ability to prove, I think, that we were on top of this because we have a graphic made. Damon, Damon, throw that graphic up there. Let's take a look at Reese Hoskins numbers from 2022, because he was. two because he was out all of 2023 with a torn ACL.

And when you look at some of these numbers, they look very close to a player the Diamondbacks are losing, a veteran player in Evan Longoria. So Reese could be that veteran right-handed bat that the Diamondbacks are seeking to replace Longo. He had a 246 average in 2022 with a 332 on-base percentage, 462 slugging, 30 home runs, 79 RBI, and a 2.3 FWR.

and just some outstanding numbers for a guy that is available and could potentially fit a lot of the Diamondbacks needs as far as, again, D.H and filling in and a backup rule. Reese Hoskins is, I think, just one of the more fun players in Bay. I just think people like Reese Hoskins. He certainly was like people in Philly loved him. The, you know, the Phillies saying earlier this offseason that Bryce Harper was going to play first base for them, needing the DH spot for Kyle Schwerver. There's really no way that Reese Hoskins goes back to the Phillies. But yeah, Gambo just mentioned his name.

You mentioned it as well. There seems to be some level of interest here. And you can certainly understand why. These are some pretty solid numbers from Reese Hoskins in 2022 prior to the whole torn ACL thing happening. 30 home runs, 79 RBI, 2.3 wins above replacement, a solid season across the board. I don't know if the Diamondbacks would want Reese Hoskins to play much first base, but the good news for them is that they would not really have to because they have the best defensive first baseman in the game in Christian Walker already.

So yeah, this would make a lot of sense. Hoskins could DH most of the time. He could back up Christian Walker at first base from time to time. There is obviously a bit of unknown here, given that Hoskins did not play at all in the 2023 season. No, nothing. No, no winning on that one. Sorry.

Sorry to interrupt your Reese Hoskins. I just need to give you an update on our Arizona Lottery Scratcher ticket. You can see here why the Diamondbacks would be interested. He is a Scott Boris client. So do with that information, what you will. MLB trade rumors has two years 36 million, which is a lot. I don't know if I could see the debacks going that high on a guy who didn't play at all in 2023. And you see anybody going that high?

That seems like a risk. I mean, maybe on a one year deal with, again, with the magic deal, the one year with an option for a second year. But that seems like a lot to commit to a guy that you're still unsure of how he's going to perform. Yeah, I would think that if you were Hoskins, you wouldn't, you probably don't want too long of a deal because you, I mean, if you come out and really and really look like prime Reese Hoskins in 2024, you probably want to be able to hit the market again and go like get some serious money. He was like, he was really good. I mean, you look at his 2020 season. Obviously, that was shortened an 887 OPS in 2021. He had an 864 OPS.

That 2022 season was actually a bit of a down year by his standards. He's been one of the better hitters in the game at his peak. So, yeah, I don't know exactly what it would take to your point. I don't think I see the Diamondbacks, maybe anyone going to two years in 36 million. Yeah. But there's an obvious fit here for sure, for, for, for, for the devax. There's another fit potentially.

And of course, it's the love of my life, the one and only J.D. Martinez. And of course, we've talked about it. We know it's a very real possibility. I told Damon that I look at his baseball savant page every single night before I go to bed. It's like a warm glass of milk. It just feels so good in my tummy. And it just makes me just fall right asleep happily. I asked Derek.

is he the one? And Derek said, yes, he's the one. He's the one. He is him. 271 batting average in 2023 with a 321 on base percentage, 572 slugging. He had 33 dingers, 103 RBI, and a 2.2 foie. And, you know, of course, the big difference here is you kind of know what you're going to get out of J.B. Martinez. Damon made a great point about so many times, especially in the in the World Series against the Rangers, where the Diamondbacks just needed that guy. And unfortunately, Christian Walker, who was that guy for the team during the regular season, shied away or just struggled in some of those big moments.

It feels like JD is the kind of guy that they really need in the offensive lineup that can just be that threat, just be that guy that, you know, of course, obviously, I know he hits a lot of home runs. He has this, you know, like swings and misses a bit, but it just feels like you're getting a little bit more of a, well-rounded hitter, then you're getting just a complete power guy out of him. And again, he's just, he's just a legend in this franchise. To bring him back home would like that,

that's a move that, you know, like these moves are all over the place, right? You're bringing in a clubhouse guy from Seattle. We get to steal another great player from Seattle. You get your big free agent pitcher that maybe not a lot of people are familiar with, but baseball fans and people in the baseball world are really kind of high on right now. And to bring back somebody that was part of this organization previously that just kind of brings that sense of familiarity and bringing someone home like we had with Andrew Chaffin last offseason, it's like perfect for me. You know, of course.

Yeah. There is the fact here that he's, you know, currently negotiating with the Dodgers, I'm sure. And most likely if the Dodgers aren't able to land the big, the big fish, right? They're going to have lots of money to spend on some of these other guys. That's the reason why I'm surprised the most that the Erod deal went down when it did. I almost feel like agents are doing a bit of disservice to their clients, considering how much money is going to just be available once Otani decides on where he's going to go. And it feels like teams might have been able, might have, might have been offering a bit more money.

It might be another one of those like Corbyn Carroll situations where Hazen did this deal at the right time before Rodriguez ends up getting more. expensive based on the market jd martinez swings at some pitches that he shouldn't and he swings and misses a lot and he also absolutely destroys the tar out of the baseball like he just absolutely breaks when he makes contact yeah and if you look at his savant page that's that's what you see it's a lot of really really really bright red and then in the like swing and miss strikeout stuff uh it's not so great that's kind of the player that he is at this stage of his career. But yeah, he is, he drove in 103 runs. I didn't realize this.

He drove in 103 runs with the Dodgers last year. And he only played 113 games, I want to say it is. It's fucking wild. Yeah, it is wild. I know having like having Mookie Betts and Freddie Freeman in front of you is, I mean, that's a pretty solid place. Helps, having those guys always on base in front of you. That's a pretty solid place to find yourself in the lineup.

But, yeah, he had a really. a really solid season. He was really good when he was on the field for the Dodgers. He did miss some time. Like I said, I think at this stage in his career, you probably have to expect that he is going to miss some time. I'm not sure he's going to be able to play 155 games again in his career. He's not going to do they need that? Do they need a guy that? Yeah, they could they could withstand you know, if they had to play 40 or 50 games with someone else in there as a DH. They could withstand that. And we've seen them kind of like using the DH in the past as well. well as a way to just get guys off their feet. So I don't really view that as a problem.

You're not going to get anything defensively from J.D. Martinez. He's just a straight D.H. You're not going to see him in the outfield like you did when he was with the D-backs in 2017. But yeah, he can hit and he is 36 years old. So I think that's obviously the risk factor here. I'll be very curious to see if it takes one year. If you can get him for one year at maybe like a fairly high dollar value or if you have to go to two years, just given how good of a hitter he was. even in his age 35 season this past year. So yeah, there's an obvious fit here as well. No surprise that the diamondbacks are interested.

And with either one of these guys, there's going to be some money spent here. And that's another thing that Gambo included in his tweet is that he's still hearing, you know, J.D. Martinez, Justin Turner, as guys the debats are going after, it appears that the Eduardo Rodriguez contract is not hindering them from still going after a D.A.

of this caliber, which is, of course, a really big variable that we touched on yesterday. There it is. There it is, which we knew because it's just a decision human beings have to make. That's not an actual thing that's keeping them, right? It's not an actual thing that's keeping them from spending more. It's just an internal decision within the organization on how much they want to increase their budget. And I understand sometimes you want to set limits and stick to those budgets, but sometimes you tell your kid that you're only going to spend $100 on them on Christmas. And then you know you're not going to spend just $100 on. And that's not the way that this works. Yeah.

We know we're going to go over. We just want to keep it reasonable. So we set a budget so that when we go over it, we know we at least stayed in the neighborhood of how much money we want to expect. But let's open up that checkbook, Uncle Ken. We need to get ourselves back to the World Series. Of course, what you can do is bet on a future bet for the Diamondbacks to make the World Series. And you can do that over at BetMGM. You can also make yourself some money should you make a big bet and you lose that bet.

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about this time of the year with the NFL season because things are dying down in the fantasy football world. But they're just, it just feels like it's a little bit easier. You know what teams are in. You know what teams are going to play in hard. You know what teams are going to play in hard. You know what teams don't give a crap anymore. So get out there, put a same game parlay down, win yourself some money. And of course, if you're a new customer, you can get a whole lot of money back in bonus bets. If you do lose, again, sign up for the bet MGM app. Use bonus code of PHNX. Place your first bet MGM sportsbook wager through this mobile application of at least $10. If that bet loses, your bonus bets will be available once your initial wager is settled.

Check out the show notes for full details, and now listen to Shane, talk about the disclaimer. Ontario. All right. Also, just to sweeten that pot, by the way, if you sign up and send us a screenshot to a tweet that we have here from PHNX Sports Account, you will get $10 off at the PHNX Locker.com for placing that bet over at BetMGM. Not even that, not only that, but to make it even sweeter than that, right now is the best time to get a PhNX diehard membership. $20 off right now. You get that diehard membership for $59.99.

get a free shirt from the PHNX Locker.com. You'll get that fun membership kit sent out to you with your membership card and some goodies. You also get access to our members-only Discord Lounge, which is the best place to be an Arizona sports fan. We're going to have some exclusive content coming there, by the way, including coming soon, little game show action that we're going to have on the Discord where you, our diehards, are going to be the participants, and I, Derek Montia, am going to be your beloved game show host, as if you expected it to be anybody else, right? I haven't even heard about this.

We have some fun coming up. But yeah, make sure to check that out again. That's the best time to become a diehard. You'll never get a deal this low. 59999 for that yearly membership. So sign up today and become part of the PHNX family. Also, big shout out to our friends at Foco. They are always keeping our sets looking beautiful

with their wonderful little decorations, all of their wonderful merchandise. It's a leading manufacturer of sports. sports and entertainment merchandise with a product line that includes apparel, accessories, toys, and collectibles. Of course, it's the best place to get your baseball stuff. Limited edition bobbleheads you won't find anywhere else, and they are little tiny works of art, so do not miss out. They make great gifts this holiday season for the baseball fan in your life. Trust me, if you know a bobblehead collector, there is a chance you can absolutely

blow them away with some of these limited numbered bobbleheads that are available over at Focco.com. They always have our back for Arizona Sports and they have yours too. Get the best year around by visiting pho.com and using code PhNX for all non-presale items use that code and you will get 10% off. That's PHNX 10. Excuse me, PHNX 10 for that 10% off. So do not miss out on that. Can I be one of the contestants on your, on your little game show? We'll see. Maybe we'll just make you like the Jeopardy champion type that other people have to beat in order to advance to the next round. I don't know. It depends on it depends on it is. If it's anything that requires the smallest amount of pop culture knowledge, then people

you're done for. Yeah, yeah, it's over for you. Well, again, I did want to pick your brain about this, Jesse. What did you think about that little hype video that Chase Field posted? Because I know with your lack of pop culture knowledge and everything, your mind had to be spinning about this, Damon. Can we take a look at the video I'm referencing? Is it? I'm so excited. Is it something new? Is Chase field being renovated like we know from insider information that it is maybe is it like a new tv deal perhaps uh possibly but no it's none of those things jesse it's absolutely none of those things it was instead an announcement for this the deaf leopard journey steve miller band concert coming to chase field on friday august 23rd you feel dupe jet

You feel due. Jesse, how many of those bands are you familiar with? Zero. None. Oh, come on. I mean, I've definitely, I've heard these names, but like I couldn't, I couldn't match songs to bands. You know how I am there. What are we doing with this hype video? What are we doing, Jesse?

You can't do this during the winter meetings. You can't do this during a hot stove season. This is preposterous. You cannot get me all excited for. for Def Leopard Journey and the Steve Miller Band? Well, it wasn't. We have to point out this was not only the Diamondbacks. Yeah, correct.

This video was tweeted out by the, not the Diamondbacks, but by the Matt Chase Field account. It was then retweeted by the Diamondbacks. And it came out from other teams' accounts as well, although it was fascinating because you saw this video from the Globe Life Field account. You did not see it from the Texas Rangers, however, whereas out in Cleveland, you saw this video from the Cleveland Guardians.

It was just directly tweeted by them. They weren't retweeting it. It was just posted as their own video. But yeah, they had a great time yesterday, Derek, messing with like half of the baseball universe. This went out from a bunch of different teams accounts. And they had everyone trying to like figure out what this was. Like is it a new TV partnership?

A lot of these are like ballet teams, right? Is this the end of blackouts? is this. Yeah. You know, I don't know. It never really made sense to me exactly, you know, all the different explanations people were giving. None of them really seemed to make sense to me.

And yeah, we find out it's all for a concert, which, I mean, maybe it's not this way for other people, but that was an enormous letdown for me. I figured there was like some big baseball news, but just a lame concert circling around a bunch of different baseball stadiums. Jesse, there are times where you and I completely disagree on the importance of things, right? This is definitely not one of those times. This is not one of those times where I feel like our trust was eroded just a little bit due to how important we thought this announcement could have been versus how important it actually was.

And I don't know. I mean, I think that this kind of goes back to some of our discussions about other things that they've done. other things MLB is done. Like, I don't know. I mean, that it's very reminiscent. I know a lot of people were posting it. It's a lot, it's very reminiscent of the FTX ad that was coming soon. They just posted a picture one time of the moon as a baseball with the date June 23rd,

21 underneath it. And people got all excited about what that was. And it was, and it said big things coming. It came from the official MLB account. And it was merely that they had a deal, partnership deal with FTX, which as we know, they're getting sued over. So, of course, sometimes their decisions aren't the best. So what you are saying is that Major League Baseball is going to be sued as well

because it is only a matter of time. Anytime they do the bait and switch thing where are just like the like super hype and something up, it's really just like kind of whatever like, yeah, there's a concert. These things happen all the time. You're just, you're asking for it, Derek. You're asking, you're asking to be in legal hot water within, you know, six to eight months. It just feels inevitable. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those situations where I just think that it was ridiculous.

You're messing with people. I feel like you're doing it intentionally. I don't like any of it at all. I don't like disappointing people, Jesse, but I do it every single day on this show. So, I mean, again, that's nothing new when it comes to my world, but I would feel like that Chase Field would want better for themselves. But we have no stadium news. We wait.

But again, I'm fairly certain based on. some images I've seen and some insider information passed to us that Chase Field is in fact being renovated. And I have a feeling by the time this concert comes around on August 23rd that we'll get a chance to see those renovations. Maybe before then. Who knows? We'll see. But of course, it's not like there's baseball being played in August or anything. I was going to say. It's like right in the middle of baseball. So we could put seats in center field again. I hate it. But anyway, all right. Well, we thank you guys, of course, for stopping by. We know you guys have.

your thoughts on this. So make sure to tweet to us. You can tweet to us at Cap underscore Caveman with a K. You can tweet to Jesse at Jesse and Friedman. Our show is at PHNX underscore D-Backs. And our producer, of course, is the people's producer, Damon. He is, of course, always here. He's always producing.

He never leaves. He just lives here. You can follow him at Damon Dog. That's DAWG. We are Damon Dogs. Woofoof? Bark, bark. No, right.

God damn it. But anyway. The holiday season, of course, is here. We know that. And I've been telling you guys about great ways for you to survive, basically your family. You know, we get it. So check out OGs because I feel like OGs is a great way for you to get away from the stress of the holiday season. Picture this.

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Jesse is going to be traveling, so I'm going to bring ESPO in, and I'm going to teach ESPO about the game of baseball. And apparently holding on the microphones correctly. But Jesse, safe travels. Make sure you drink plenty of water. I don't want to hear about you not eating or not drinking anymore. You're going to teach ESPO about baseball. Baseball? Like what exactly does that entail?

I don't know where his level of expertise. There might be some throwing exercises, maybe hitting off the tea. Maybe we'll teach him about the Robert Besson's football slider. Who knows, Jesse? There's a lot to teach just, uh, uh, Espo. You know, he's not here every day. Uh, and of course, he does want to know about Gino and Erod and all of the new nicknames that we have, uh, for players.

So I need to do. In honor of the letter E, it does make quite a bit of poetic. sense that Espo would be joining the show on Friday. Get out of here. You do this better than me. I can't be upstaged by you like this. Of course, we thank you guys for being here. Again, our shows at PHNX underscore D-Backs, but all roads.

Lead to at pH and X underscore sports on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. We appreciate your time. We'll be back tomorrow at 1 p.m. We thank you again for stopping by. And remember, kids, baseball is fun, but it's so much more fun when you get yourself a mid-rotation starter.