PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Does Shota Imanaga make the Chicago Cubs a contender in the National League?

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

The Chicago Cubs are reportedly signing starting pitcher Shota Imanaga, and we have more on the impact he will have and if it’s enough to replace departing free agent Marcus Stroman. We also discuss if the Diamondbacks should consider a trade with the Boston Red Sox for outfielder Masataka Yoshida, MLB Network ranking Zac Gallen as the third best pitcher in baseball, and more!An ALLCITY Network ProductionSUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtubeALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsports PHNX Events: Get your tickets to D-backs Takeovers, Knockout Nights & Suns Watch Parties at BetMGM, and MORE here: https://www.eventbrite.com/o/phnx-56002330273 Desert Financial Credit Union: Open a free checking account online with Desert Financial Credit Union and get $200 in bonuses https://www.desertfinancial.com/200Schedule a free in-home estimate with Empire Today! All listeners can receive a $350 OFF discount when they use the promo code PHNX. Restrictions apply. See EmpireToday.com/PHNX for details.Sign up for Gila River Resorts & Casinos $1,000,000 Big Red’s Showdown! Stay in the game and get rewards; it’s that easy! https://www.gilamilliondollarshowdown.com/Gametime: Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase.Circle K:  Join Inner Circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today! Head to https://www.circlek.com/store-locator to find Circle Ks near you!OGeez!: OGeez! is not your average cannabis-infused gummy. Head on over to https://www.ogeezbrands.com to find out where you can purchase. Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. Four Peaks: Follow them on social @fourpeaksbrew & @fourpeakspub! Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. WYNK Seltzer + THC: Go to https://drinkwynk.com/ and use promo code “PHNX” for 50% off. Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. When you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You all and welcome to another edition of the PHNX D-BACs podcast right on PHNX. My name is Derek Montea. Of course, I am the mayor of PHMX. This is the vice mayor, also known as Thunderstit, Jesse Friedman. Jesse, Cubs made a big signing yesterday, somebody who we were quite interested in. And of course, anytime a national league team gets,

It's better. We have to wonder how is that going to impact us? What is that going to do to me? How is that going to make me feel? Is this going to make me feel sad? And I think that Chota Amanaga might end up being one of those guys that we have a little remorse about missing out on. I think he's going to be a special pitcher in this league. And kudos to the Cubs for adding him to their roster.

Yeah, I mean, we're really just here to talk about your feelings, Derek, about, you know, how you're doing emotionally in light of the signing. It's not great. But that's most days. I mean, most days I'm not great. I'm emotionally stable right now is the best that I can say. The Diamondbacks have Eduardo Rodriguez, so that's helping you. I'm still okay with that. I'm still riding high on the World Series appearance for sure.

But much like a lot of Diamondbacks fans, I'm irrationally panicked about adding more to this team, even though we made it as far as we did. When I see other teams adding these players, and especially with how slow free agency has moved, I get a little antsy. I'm still waiting for the JD. Martinez announcement.

But we do know we talked yesterday about if the Diamondbacks would add some more arms and how they kind of are in a position right now where they don't really need to add any more starting pitching. But man, would have been nice to add someone of, you know, with these statistics from 2023. Yeah, I'm amazed at the price tag, which is not official. We haven't gotten any official news on this yet. It seems a little bit more speculative right now. but John Heyman did say that he has heard that the guarantee here is around two years and $30 million,

which feels pretty light. I mean, in terms of a guarantee to a guy, I mean, I think there were reports recently that the contract for Emanaga could go north of $100 million. So if that indeed proves to be the case that the Cubs are only guaranteeing him two years and $30 million, that feels like a pretty big win for the Cubs. And a missed by everyone else. Potentially, yeah, apparently it's very complicated and there's like cascading player and team options that could bring the total, the total dollar value up to around 80 million. At least that's what John Heyman mentioned.

We'll see where those numbers wind up when all is said and done. But yeah, at first glance, if those numbers do prove to be true, that's a much lower price tag than I anticipated for Emanaga for sure. It's the type of thing that we thought we would see with some of these international players because of the unknown there. right the fact that you don't know how they're going to acclimate to the major league baseball and if they're going to be nearly as effective as they were in either korea or japan coming over and pitching here in the united states that actually makes a lot more sense than some of the other deals like you know obviously we know yamamoto is a very good player right but again to give him the contract that he received did seem like they were very confident that he was going to be able to make that you know to adapt to the united states and playing for major league baseball and i just i have a hard time saying that about any player no matter how good they were in the league that they were from that's the job of a sports franchise though to decide when they want to take you know take that leap you know of faith essentially on a player and and yeah give them money when they haven't really proven themselves to be worth that dollar amount right umanaga based on what he did uh he i mean i

would say that he's confidently worth more than the deal that you just said if he can achieve that's those same numbers here in the United States. Yeah, I mean, I don't think you necessarily project that right coming over from Japan. Japan kind of has this reputation as being somewhere between AAA and the majors in terms of competition level. But yeah, he was really good in Japan this past season, a 280 ERA, a 105 whip, a strikeout rate of just under 30% a walk rate of 4%. We talked about this a while back when we were thinking about Imanaga as a potential

candidate for the Diamondbacks. His strikeout rate was higher than Yoshinuo Yamamoto, and his walk rate was lower than Yoshinu Yamamoto. So, you know, you figure Yamamoto gets $325 million. You're able to get this guy for, you know, a guarantee of 30 million. That, I mean, you're in a, you're in a, it feels like a win in a pretty good spot. But at the same time, you know, I'managa is 30 years old. He's not 25.

He's much, not much older. They're coming from me. I should never say much older when it's five years. But yeah. He is considerably older than. than Yamamoto in baseball years. Five years is a lot. Thank you for putting it in like dog eaters.

I appreciate that. You're still young, Derek. Don't worry. Thank you. In baseball years, you're old, but you're still young for the rest of us.

I'm going to clip that. Just for me. I'm not putting out social. That's just for me. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see how Imenaga's game translates. The strikeout walk numbers are very good. The stuff on paper is very good.

There's been a lot of reporting done about this. Out of every page. pitcher who pitched in the world baseball classic. Imanaga had the highest stuff plus, which if you haven't heard of stuff plus, it's like this number that I think, Eno Seris and some other baseball nerds came up with that is basically just scaled to 100.

So 100 is average. Anything above that would be above average. Anything below that would be below average. And yeah, Imanaga, his stuff really shined in the world baseball classic. His fastball has an extreme amount of vertical ride, more ride than apparently any forcing fastball of any pitcher

in Major League Baseball. And he also throws from a really low arm slot. He's a short pitcher. So I guess I should say his release point is very low as a result of that, which tends to make that upward ride a little bit more effective. So there are some things to like about this arsenal and to

believe that it really could translate to the majors. In eight career seasons, he has a sub three ERA. So in his career, he has a 2.96 ERA. And again, these aren't these aren't terrible numbers like like you said there is some adjustment right like you're he's not gonna probably not going to put up the same numbers here uh in major league baseball as he did in and npb but right i still feel like if you get if you get a 3.5 a r a out of him like that's a win

if you're paying him a huge win you know i mean if you're paying him 30 million dollars over two seasons then that's that right there you know obviously makes it uh you know a no brainer for any team and I guess I'm a little jealous again seeing that that deal and thinking like I know the diamond backs have options I know they didn't need to go out and get another starting sure but if there was a guy to take a chance on this seemed like the type of player that you would take a chance on yeah I mean it's really interesting it seems like there's a it seems like imanaga is kind of a polarizing player there's there's this this big stuff elements where people are looking at the fastball metrics they're looking at

you know, the movement on the splitter and the slider. And they're like, man, this guy is three plus pitches. Not that many major league pitchers have three plus pitches. And yet there's also this narrative, which I think has been the predominant narrative, which is that Imanaga is a number four or five starter. He is a back end guy. And so it's hard. It's a little hard for me to reconcile those two viewpoints because they don't really line up.

There aren't a whole lot of number five starters floating around, you know, who have more vertical ride on their fastball than anyone else in baseball. Sure. and have like a plus splitter and a plus like it's hard for me to square those things the the big downside freemunaga the thing that he struggled with the most in japan was giving up home runs yeah he gave up 17 home runs and 148 innings uh this past season which is not a ton uh by major league baseball standards but it's a lot per npb standards yeah by npb standards yeah not as it's more of a contact oriented league not as many guys hit homers yamamoto for reference gave up two home

runs all season, which you're not holding him to that standard. But 17 by Japanese standards is a lot. And I think there's this sense that coming over to the big leagues, you know, he might strike out a lot of guys. He might walk not that many guys, but he might give up enough homers that, you know, pushes him from being a number two, three starter to more of a more of a back end guy. If you could scroll back there, Damon, I think it was Castle. Freeland there said Imanaga will put up impressive strikeout and walk numbers.

but when he gets hit he gets it hard. Yeah, I definitely see that in the numbers to back that up. And again, that's still obviously something that's interesting how it adapts, how his stuff and how that good stuff that he has adapts to Major League Baseball. And if that's going to result in him getting hit equally as hard here or if it plays differently, there's also the idea that it feels like the World Baseball Classic had a huge impact here on these international players being able to be seen, especially on a team like Japan that was such a good baseball team collectively.

They had some success. Yeah. They won the whole damn thing, right? And then you look at the players on that team and it just allows you, it's, it's again, it's the importance of all of these exhibitions and anything where players who might normally be seen by Major League front offices and scouts and things like that get a chance to be seen. Obviously, scouts look everywhere. But sometimes it's just about being on a stage like the World Baseball Classic to get some of those players, you know,

and their stuff in front of everybody's eyes. I think Kenta Maeda stands out to me as an interesting comp here. I don't think that Yamanaga will have the durability issues that Maeda has had. I certainly hope not. Myeda has been through it over the years. I had a hard time staying healthy. But we talked about Maeda as a potential target for the Diamondbacks way back when before he signed with the Tigers. And his strikeout and walk numbers really impressive.

He had a 27.3% strikeout rate, a 6.5% walk rate this past. past season. Those are both really, really good numbers. But at the same time, Maeda is not a number one or number two starter, right? Maeda is more of a back end guy. And for him, a big reason for that is that he does give up a lot of home runs. Myada was like 1.7 home runs per nine or something like that this past year. So I think something like a Kenza Maeda, who is more durable and gives you more innings, I think that's a reasonable expectation. But yeah, I'm still intrigued here. I don't know if I fully buy into the number four starter expectation that a lot of people seem to have. It seems like there's some potential for more than that.

And given these contract numbers, I mean, that would be a huge win, as we said earlier, for the Cups. Well, there is still some more free agents out there on the market. Not sure if you're aware of that, but things are still moving slowly. The New York Yankees have emerged as yet another frontrunner for another top free agent in Marcus Stroman. but we got to ask if like are the Yankees going to close the deal? I mean, I know they got Juan Soto and I know they've made a couple of moves, but it seems like now like the Yankees are the opposite of the Dodgers.

The Yankees are connected to like what does that mean? They're like they're the big franchise that's like connected to every free agent player and they're getting none of them. I mean, well, that's what the Dodgers have kind of been in the past. Right. Like the Dodgers are always connected.

They're just quietly in the shadows. And then it's like, oh yeah, the Dodgers are also in on this guy. And then yeah, it's like the Dodgers signed them. Sure. That's what this free agency period has felt like for sure.

We know the Dodgers are looming over everybody, but the Yankees really, I don't know. Like there were reports that Stroman wanted to go to the Yankees, but the Yankees didn't want him. Yeah, which I guess now is not the case anymore. I don't know. I don't know what to make of that. I mean, when you start putting how players dress and what they do and how big their sideburns are impact, you know, the amount of, you know, talent that you put on your team. I just have to ask that about the Yankees. Stop making everybody shave their faces.

And maybe you'll get some quality players. I don't know what to tell you, but I wouldn't sign with them. I'm not shaving. Well, I don't know. I looked pretty good with the mustache. I might be an ideal fit. I kind of would. They're going to look at those pictures.

They're going to be like, this is our guy. Sign him. Sign him. Oh, yeah. Well, the Arizona Diamondbacks. What's that? You and Austin Walls. Yeah.

Well, hey, pal, you too. Watch it. Do you remember the good old days when Sean in the summer would be screaming out here on the recliners. I miss Sean so much. Just so mad about Austin Walls and mustache. I miss Sean screaming is what I should say. I just miss Sean being in this building and yelling about cheese shops and talking about

the atrocities of, you know, bands, I guess. I don't know. But the Arizona Diamondbacks, of course, again, I'm, I'm jealous. I want more players to sign or I want them to at least make some moves and trades to continue improving this team. And I don't even know if they need to. I'm just now I'm, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, just want to add more. The more the Dodgers add, the more some of these other teams add,

I want the Diamondbacks to do the same. Jesse had actually a pretty good idea of someone who maybe they should trade for it. Yeah, this is my idea. I had to put him out on it on me. Well, according to reports, the Boston Red Sox have been looking to move a player. They have received trade interest in Masataka Yoshita and seem open to reworking their outfield and potentially trading him. So we basically wanted to explore. if that would be a good option for the Diamondbacks. We know he's a very good player offensively. However, defensively,

not so much. Not so much, yeah. Yeah, and I don't know if I would frame it as the Red Sox are looking to trade Yoshita as much as just like. People have called on me. Yeah, they've gotten some interest. And the Red Sox are in kind of a bizarre place as a franchise right now or nobody really knows exactly what their long-term plan is.

There's a lot of questions there moving forward. But yeah, if we look at Masataki Yoshita, numbers from the 2023 season. As you said, offensively, there's a lot to like here, right? A 289 average, a 335 on base, 445 slugging percentage, 15 homers, 72 RBI,

0.6 wins above replacement. And he only struck out 14% of the time. Yoshida makes a ton of contact. The bat to ball skill is absolutely there. That's something that people expected to translate when he came over to the majors last year

and it certainly did. But yeah, as you said, there are some real defensive limitations here. He played 87 games in left field in 2020. And he had minus four defensive runs saved minus 8. Yikes. And if you're wondering how a guy can put up this good of offensive numbers and have 0.6.4.

0.6 wins above replacing on fan graphs. That's why it's using those stat cast defensive metrics, which were extremely poor for Yoshita in 2023. So what would be the option here, just more of a D.H as far as actually having him playing the outfield? Yeah, you don't. I mean, maybe he'd get a few reps in the Diamondbacks outfield. But yeah, he would be in my mind a potential DH option for them, someone who can hit both righties and lefties. There is a decent split there, but he still hit 273, 347, 398 against lefties as a left-handed hitter.

So he can certainly hold his own against both. The big hurdle here is his contract. He signed a five-year $90 million contract last year with the Red Sox. There's now four years and $72 million remaining on that deal. It's an $18 million per season. You know, J.D. Martinez is probably about $18 million per season. I guess maybe there's some world where the Diamondbacks could spend that kind of money. But Yoshida is not worth that, frankly.

Given the defensive limitations that he showed in 2023, the Red Sox would have to eat money in order to get any kind of value in return for Yoshita at this point. So yeah, maybe if the Red Sox brought it down to like 10 million a year that the Diamondbacks would owe, you know, that would maybe work financially for the debacks. Whether the debacks would want Yoshita for four seasons, I guess is another question here. I'm not sure you want to walk in a DH that many years down the road. We had this conversation about Cite just the other day. You know, do you want a shorter term D.H so that you have the opportunity to move him over there if you see the need? So, yeah, there's a lot more going against this than going for it, if I'm being totally honest.

But there's at least some elements that would make sense. It doesn't match the time either timeline, really, because I feel like what you're looking for is a younger guy, not somebody that's 30 years old. And that is going to be a part of the core, essentially, with Gabby Moreno, with Corby. with Alec Thomas, those guys that are going to be here. Then you have the shorter time frame, which is essentially like the starting pitcher clock, you know, the Zach Gallen,

Merrill Kelly years that we have left. And I feel like right now, the main thing you really want to address is that period of time with shorter term deal, two years, you know, at the most with a player, just because after those guys potentially

are no longer part of the team, there might not be a rebuild that is needed, but you don't want to necessarily commit to parts, like long-term. term like that that might still be around. I mean, I don't know the direction they're going to go. I don't know what's going to happen with Zach Gallon. And I know we're going to talk about the MLB network ranking him very highly, which

definitely does not help our case to bring him back. But I do I do feel very much like you want to do everything you can to kind of have, especially players that you're acquiring right now match up with, you know, with the timeline a little bit better. Like Eduardo Rodriguez, sure. That's fine, I think. And that at least you'd like to have one starting. pitcher locked in beyond 2025. You know what I mean? Like it would just, not everything has to end in

2025. But yeah, I agree with you. The timeline here with Yoshida, the four years. I don't think that makes a ton of sense for the debacks. Connor Mormon said in the chat for 18 million per year, give me JD for two years plus no assets given up. Absolutely. There it is. I do think kind of like I said earlier, if this trade did happen, which I don't expect it to. But if it did, it would be the Red Sox eating probably a decent chunk of money here. The debacks, there's no scenario where they would trade for Yoshida and pay all that contract. It would be, you know, nine or $10 million a year maybe.

And even then, I don't think you're giving up huge assets because, again, Yoshida was worth 0.6 war this past season. You know, if you're paying a nine or $10 million a year, you're probably not, probably shouldn't be giving up really much more than that in a trade. But the projections for Yoshita moving forward are pretty good. Yeah. Steamer and Zips both like the direction. Yes.

And they both have him around two wins above replacement at 1.9. Yeah. Now, is that a reflection of him playing less defense? Or is that a reflection of potentially his defense being better than the atrocious? That's a good question. Yeah. I imagine it's probably a combination of both. I haven't seen their depth charts breakdown and kind of what positions they're having in play.

But Zips has him hitting nearly 300 next season. Yeah, 296, 356, 457 from Zip, Seamer 291, 361, 460. There could be, there could be potential for Yoshita to get better moving forward, even though he's 30 years old, you know, this past year was his rookie season in the majors. And maybe he's able to, you know, draw a few more walks as the years go on, you know, make a little bit more hard contact. I think he's also a case of what we were talking about earlier, though, right? like the Red Sox gave him five years, 90 million.

And it's not like you said, like they're not trying to move him. They're not actively trying to get rid of him. Yeah, they are not shopping him. Yeah, they are open to listening to offers on him, but they are not necessarily going to move him.

But I mean, I feel like if you're paying that much for a player that, you know, has a 0.6 fan graphs wins above replacement. Like what, what are you doing here, right? Yeah, I mean, that's the problem.

Does not look good for the Red So. And that's the problem is like he's a great hitter, right? his defense in Japan was probably better than this and it's more of playing defense in the United States sometimes when a player you know hasn't played in a league you have no idea what is going to translate well and what isn't right they could still be a great hitter but again if they can't if they can't be out there as a defender and offer you that other side of the ball then they're instantly not worth nearly the amount of money that you thought that they were going

to be and I think sometimes defense is vastly underrated right when it comes comes to things like having a minus four defensive run saved and a minus eight outs above average. It really shows that you are like pretty significantly behind as far as a defender or worse than the league average, right? So sure. I don't know, man. I just think that for the most part, I agree with you. I don't think it's a good move. It's a good trade.

I think Connor was right about the dollar amount plus giving up assets. If you're going to spend that much, go get Solair, go get J.D. Martinez. is and don't give up the assets that you're going to have to get. I mean, by all means, if the debacks have $16, $17 million to spend on a DH this off season, yeah, don't, don't spend it on Masataka, Yoshita. This would be if the diamondbacks don't have $16, $17 million to spend. And they go to the Red Sox and they're like, hey, can you eat half of this for us? Can you eat seven?

Yeah. And then maybe that brings it down at the debacks price range and they get themselves a DH who at least projects moving forward. to be better than Tommy fam to be better than some of those lower tier DH targets out there. But yeah, the four years thing, having four years remaining, regardless of what the AAV is that the Dbacks would have to cover. That's a lot of years. So it's probably more years than the Diamondbacks would want. Well, we thank you guys for being here in the Ph.N. Export YouTube channel.

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bigger, small, whether you are having any kind of parties this month or just trying to feed your family. Check them out. You can order online or find one near you again by visiting some boroughs.com. Baseball season right around the corner. Our friend Karen sent us a picture of a shirt that makes me very much missed baseball season, much like her. But once it's here, you know, you know where to go.

You know to go to game time to get your tickets. You get your last minute tickets at game time because it's the place for last minute ticket deals. I assure you I can read and I'm not broken. I just sometimes you need to unplug Derek, wait 15 seconds and plug them back in. But GameTime is the fastest growing ticketing app in the country for a reason. Of course, it's very aesthetically pleasing, very easy to use. And of course, you can get the best deals on tickets for concert shows and, of course, sporting events. Snag the tickets without the stress with GameTime.

Download the app. Create an account and use code P.HNX for $20 off your first purchase. Terms do apply again, create an account and redeem code PHNX for $20 off. download game time today last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed we touched on it a little earlier but zach gallon was ranked third by m lb network on their list of the top 10 pitchers in major league baseball which uh was a little surprising i was taken back by jesse were you surprised by seeing i was i mean we're we're kind of used to zach gallon flying under the radar a little bit and if anything, people underselling how good of a starting pitcher he really is.

And I don't necessarily think that third is way too high or anything. I can see how they drew this conclusion. But it's certainly not like too low, right? I mean, it's it's a pretty good. That's a pretty good spot for Zach Gallen to wind up in. You're not going to get the same energy as the Gabriel Moreno ranking yesterday that we discussed. but this was very surprising. I have to, in taking a look at it,

I have to wonder, is this more of a reflection of what they feel like they're going to be in 2024? Is this a reflection of just the 2023 season? I don't really know because there's a lot of misses here. And honestly, there's some people that probably deserve to be on this list that aren't. And again, Zach Gallen, we love Gallen. I don't know if Zach Gallen deserves to be up that high. I definitely don't think Justin Verlander deserves to be up that high. No.

And that's what makes me wonder what makes this list. They say top 10 right now starting pitchers. The list goes for you audio listeners. Garrett Cole, Corbyn, Bairns, Zach Gallen at third, Justin Verlander at fourth. Blake Snell, Cy Young winner at fifth. Zach Wheeler at sixth, Spencer Strider, seventh, Logan Webb, eighth, Max Fried 9th and then Sunny Gray rounds staying off at 10th there. And again, there's some notable omissions.

Justin Steele was very good last year. He is not on this list. There's a lot of guys. Kevin Gousman? Yeah, Kevin Gossman has to be on the list in my mind. I mean, Kevin Gossman, the last three seasons, 551 and two-thirds innings, which is up there with pretty much all of these guys. And he's been pretty darn good as a 132 ERA plus.

over these past three years. So I think Goswin has to be here somewhere. Verlander, I agree with you. What a tremendous career he has had. Absolutely. Still still still doing it at four years old. And still. Yeah, like at first glance, I was like, okay, it is outrageous for Justin Verlander to be number

four on this list. And the more I looked at the numbers, I was like, okay, I still don't agree with it, but I can understand why they did it. over the past three years, Justin Verlander has a 170 ERA plus, which is way better than anyone else on this list. It basically makes him the best pitcher on this list. Yeah. But granted, Justin Verlander is now 40 years old and his most recent season is not as good as two years ago, not as good as three years ago. There is a decline happening here.

And he was still very good in 2023. He missed some starts, but he still had a low three ERA. but yeah, I cannot project Justin Verlander moving forward to be the fourth best starter in baseball, despite how incredibly well he has aged over the last few years. Zach Gallen is one of the youngest pitchers on this list, right? But there's still some other guys, Logan Webb, Spencer Strider, younger than Zach Gallen. But what's interesting is you talk about a three-year average. Gallen is arguably one of the worst pitchers on this list.

Yeah. If you pull a three-year-old. You get that dang 20-21 season there. it kind of messes with all the numbers. Similar to Blake Snell. Blake Snell, this three year average isn't great, but it's only because one season really kind of messes things up there for him

and then one season was phenomenal, you know, but Gallen again, I feel like, you know, this list, and Elise says this list has a lot of Scott Bore's clients near the top with a little thinking emoji,

and she's not wrong about that. I thought did cross my mind. Yeah. Especially Blake Snell being as high as he is. Yeah. Blake Snell being fifth on this list. Look, I know he just rattled off like the best 23 starts span and MLB history to end the 2020s season.

There's a reason he went from being like mediocre mid-rotation Padres like aging guy to the Cy Young winner. I mean, he was remarkably good down the stretch. But yeah, still just looking at the full body of work for Blake Snell over the last few years, as great as he was in 2023. Like I would rather have Kevin Gosman at the top of. my rotation than Blake Snell. Yeah, I know that Gossman's a couple years older,

but he's been just way more consistent on a year-to-year basis. And from a volume standpoint, Gosman has thrown, you know, 551 and two-thirds innings over the last three years compared to Snell being down in the low mid-400s. So, yeah, Snell should be lower. Gosman should be on the list, potentially near the top of the list, in my view. Framber Valdez isn't on this list? Yeah, Framber Valdez is pretty good.

He wasn't quite as good in 2023, but he's 534 innings over the last three years with a 130 ERA plus. I mean, that's that's right up there with a lot of the guys on this list. He should he should probably be on here as well. I mean, snakes on the diamond says I feel like the people who put that list together ignored Gallin's second half. Yeah. You're not wrong about that. And maybe even didn't watch the playoffs that closely. Justin Steele, another notable omission.

He's been very good over his last two seasons. Cotei Senga. Senga was very good in his rookie season. Yeah, it's just one year. Maybe people are hesitant to go too crazy with that. But what do we do? Like when we go crazy with these lists, we should go crazy with these lists. And I mean, again, in this case, we're almost advocating on the fact that you maybe went

to high with Zach Gallen. But if you want to get people excited about lists like this and about Major League Baseball, maybe feature a guy that's a rookie that had a sensational rookie season that made him a candidate it for rookie of the year. Even on a year where Corbyn Carroll did the things he did, Kodai Senga was still, you know, in the mix for that, right? You've also factor in, you know, I don't know. Like, yeah, I guess.

I guess that's the case. And again, Justin Verlander pulling the last three year stats, that's, I mean, it validates him being on this list. But at this point, do we really want to say that Justin Verlander is going to be one of the top 10 pitchers in 2024 when the season starts? I don't think so. That's how I think you have to view it is like going into 2020. Like who do you want on your team based on recent performance and and yeah,

Verlander is just not that guy. I think Sunny Gray for as great as he was in in 2020. I don't see sunny. I don't think Sunny Gray would make this list for me. We mentioned a few guys who probably should be on this list. Like I would probably put both Gosman and Framber Valdez on here over Sunny Gray at this point. Luis Castillo has a pretty, I mean like Castillo is just a solid number one starter.

year to year. He does pitch in a very pitcher-friendly environment. And so I think people might think that he's a little better than he is in some ways. But he's still very durable on a year-to-year basis and has been, you know, tremendous ever since he joined the Seattle Mariners. But it's tough. It's like this year right now in baseball, I feel like there are fewer like number one starting pitchers that have like no warts than there have been in the past.

Yeah. right it's like garrick cole stands above everyone else on this list as someone who doesn't have any kind of like even corbin burns at number two he is steadily declined every year for the past three seasons and then zach gallon with the second half that he had and verlander being 40 and blake snell leading the league in walks and you know zach wheeler being solid but like is he really the second best starter in baseball like i could go through every starting pitcher who's on this list or even some of the guys off this list and point out like some flaws in their game or some signs of decline.

Let me ask you this though. Is that a reflection of how baseball has changed as a game with time? Because that didn't really used to be the case when I watched it when I was a kid. Right. That didn't used to be the case when you had guys like Greg Maddox out there and when you had some of the elite pitchers in Major League Baseball and during a certain period of time. it felt like those guys were untouchable. And yeah, now we're to a point where we're like,

I don't know, I'd pay $100 million for a guy with a 3.25 ERA, right? Like it's just not really the same as far as like how good the best pitchers in baseball are and how the gap between the elite pitchers and then the good pitchers, right? I don't know. I feel like analytics has made offensive more potent and has made pitching a little bit more difficult. because there's so much information available out there. And I feel like players, batters are understanding the game better now than they ever have. So it makes it harder for pitchers to achieve a level of being great and then staying there.

Because the players adapt to you. And then if you don't continue to adapt as a pitcher, you're not going to continue to be at the top of your game. Right. And I don't feel that was the case. I feel like back in the good old 80s and 90s, you could just have one pitch that you threw the shit out of and like they just know it's coming you still can't catch up to it now they know what angle it's coming

how many you know what the revolutions per minute is yeah you know how it's going to break how it's going to do this I don't even like sometimes looking at Randy Johnson striking people out with his slider you're like why did you swing at that my God it was like three feet low and almost

hit your ankle and you still saw it coming in at you as a pitch that was going to hit in the strike zone and you swung at it like that's wild I don't know what explains that because I don't feel like pitchers are deceiving batters in the same manner that they used to at one point. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I haven't thought about that all that much. But I guess I imagine the data revolution across the game right now and what you're saying about players,

just hitters in particular, just having access to so much data about what is going to be coming at them. Yeah, I mean, maybe it does make it harder for starting pitchers to be consistent on a year-to-year basis. we do know for sure that the star, I guess is, as Michael said in the chat, the 200-ending starter is going extinct in the next five years. That's a narrative that we do know for sure is that starting pitchers are not throwing as many innings, right? And Major League Baseball is considering measures to try to prevent the extinction of, you know, the six-inning, seven-inning starting pitcher. That's something that they view as being good for the game. And you can certainly understand why, like starting pitching matchups or, are a really important part of baseball and a big reason why people target like certain games is like,

oh, I want to go to that game or I want to watch that game for sure. So yeah, I hope for the betterment of the game, I hope that Major League Baseball is able to reverse that. Well, and I mean, yeah, like even even though those two men never actually face off against each other, having those big starting pitcher marquee matchups are fun, right? And I mean, I don't know. I do think that the game is changing. I think that even when it comes to the success the Diamondbacks found this year with bullpen games and things like that, right? Like a lot of that is because it's actually really hard to create generate offense against the bullpen game.

If the guys are on point, they're going out there doing their job for an inning. And then you have to figure out a whole other, you know, batter the next or another pitcher of the next inning, right? But I mean, I don't know. There's still like, again, Merrill Kelly. He was a guy that a big goal of his was to hit 200 innings. He was successful at doing that. Didn't do that last year due to some of the injuries. But Merrill Kelly might be considered potentially to be on this list.

I mean, his last two seasons have been very good as well. So I mean, Elise said it best. These kind of lists are so subjective that it's hard to really take it seriously. And that's what it comes down to. It's just they're put on the, they're here for us to argue about. They're here for us to get mad about. Yeah. This is exactly what they wanted.

Yeah. Just like the MLB nerds thing yesterday. We played right into their hands. We're just playing right into their hands. And we're going to do it again with beer sales. here in a minute. Yeah, right. One question I do have, which is something we really can't answer

right now, but like, is Yamamoto on this list next year at this time? You know, I could see a world in which he is. I wouldn't necessarily expect him to be, but yeah, I mean, give in kind of... Can we hope he's not? Is that okay? Am I hated?

That is fair. If I say I hope he's not. That is very fair. That's what I want in my life. I want him to not. Am I going to bet against it? Probably not. Because he's a very good pitcher. And like Jesse said, there is obviously something to be lost when you come over to Major League Baseball when you have the incredible stats. Yamamoto put up in Japan.

But hopefully the loss is more significant. Hopefully we're seeing like a 4-ERA in his future and not being a part of any list like this. But I will tell you that you can head over to the BetMGM app right now and put down some future bets right now. If you're feeling saucy, if you miss baseball enough that you want to try to predict the future, make sure to do so on BetMGM. You can download the Sportsbook app now on iOS or Android. or visit betmgm.com and sign up.

When you do sign up, use our promo code of PHNX and deposit at least just $5 into your newly created account and place a wager in that amount or more at a standard odds price. Once you have placed a bet, you will receive $158 in bonus bets in honor of Super Bowl 58 regardless of the outcome of your wager. Sign up now for bet MGM and use that bonus code of PHNX. Remember what I said yesterday. Don't let anybody tell you that your bet that won was a bad bet because if it won, there is

no bad bets. Winning bets can't be bad bets. Those two things aren't the same thing. But again, sign up for bet MGM and use our bonus code PHNX. Place your first bet MGM's Wager through the sportsbook mobile application for at least $5. You will receive $150 instantly in additional winnings regardless of your wager's outcome. Check out the show notes for full details and now listen to Shane. Talk about the disclaimer. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler, Colorado, D.C., Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, New Jersey, Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, Wyoming. Call 8778-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y-4-6-6-6-9-6-9-1-1-1-6-6-9-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-4.

In partnership with Kansas-crossing, Casino and Hotel. Visit at MGM.com for terms and conditions, U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C., New York, or Ontario. Suck it, Ontario. Oh, I'm sorry. I saw ESMO, and he got me piped to say that. That's their thing. I know, yeah, it is. It is. He has this beef with Ontario and he likes to rub it in their face that they can't use the app there.

Meanwhile, we sing angelic praises normally about Ontario. I feel like we need, we need to like a PHNX DVax road trip to Ontario. We do. We do. There's also Ontario, California. That's much closer. We could just go there. I know that's not what they mean.

Yeah. But, I mean, I'm just saying. It's a nice airport. It's not. Yeah. If you're picking a SoCal airport to find two, Ontario is not a choice. I don't know if I'd want a vacation. There.

The Burbank Airport also very good. If you're flying in, avoid LAX and all the cost. The Burbank Airport is like it's like from the 70s. It is like stuck in the 70s. The baggage claim is outside. That could happen in Arizona. We know that. Very strange.

It is strange. But I will tell you, our friends from OGs has launched two new products with live rosin and Rick Simpson oil that you can get right now that will make anything you do in life better. They're OG's naturals and the big OGs are now available. OGs naturals are vegan gummies made with live. Razin and available in a sweet Clementine flavor. Meanwhile, the big OGs, which OGs made specifically for me, is a mega version of Pigs, Raspberry

Orange RSO, which is Rick Simpson Oil, one of the company's most popular products. It's perforated into 10 slices so that you can share those pieces with other people. However, it's also just one big old gummy for you to eat by yourself. Don't let people tell you otherwise. Like freshly squeezed juice, live rosen is created through a pressing process. The highest quality harvested cannabis is frozen and ultimately pressed to extract the all natural live rosin oil. It's fascinating to see in real life, Jesse. I mean, most people that don't know about the advancements in weed science would be blown away by what these companies do in order to achieve this.

It's really fascinating. But to learn more about OG's Gummies and where you can find them, head on over to OGs.com now. And big shout out to all of our PHNX diehards. If you are not a diehard, you can join the family over at GoPy's. PhNX.com. We'll get a free t-shirt as part of your welcome package from the PHNX Locker.com of your choosing, as well as all sorts of wonderful benefits, including Jesse's newsletter, the access to all of our newsletters, all of our content, access to our members-olding Discord Lounge, discounts

with our partners, and so much more. So sign up today. Of course, the Discord Lounge alone is worth the price of admissions to join the PHNX family now and get down on 2024 with us. Elise says Long Beach is a good airport too. Long Beach is. We should probably draft Southern California airports. Yeah, that seems like a good offseason.

Are we going to the beach or are we going to Disneyland? Which one? John Wayne is Orange County. John Wayne is Orange County. It's great. It's amazing how many options are. There are a lot. And most people just choose LAX and then they pay more to fly into LAX for a worse experience.

L.A.X is the wrong. It's the wrong choice. If you're flying into L.A.X, you made the wrong choice. But Tim said that Ontario Oregon is also a thing. Maybe we should maybe we do a road trip where we hit all of the Ontario. Maybe. Yeah. I think I'm down.

It's a massive road trip. And then we see the amount of land you're coming to song in each town. You're going to Oregon soon. So you'll be able to scout it out, right? Yeah. I don't. You're going on one of the days. I'm going to Portland.

I don't think on it looks like Ontario, Oregon is basically Idaho. So I'm not, I'm not really going to be on that side of the state. Well, when I go visit my friend Josh, who is a Ph. NX diehard. I will make sure to go check out. Ontario, Canada is like where Buffalo is. Yeah. That's not an easy drive.

The road trip that we out made out is... David's trying to realistically warn us that this is a bad idea. Like, is it just we and I are about to set out on this venture tomorrow. We're going to the Pacific Northwest and then going across all of North America. Can we stop at Banff in Canada? Oh, yeah. We can make some great tips on that. All right.

Well, I guess we never answered the question that we, I guess, posed to start this show or, I guess, to have. headline this show. But going back to the Chicago Cubs, we know that they weren't really a problem for the Arizona Diamondbacks. They were almost a problem. They were almost a problem. We kind of steamrolled them there at the end of the season. Right. Right. That is true. But the Cubs are does does this make the Cubs a contender? And especially with what we discussed also with potentially them losing Marcus Stroman. It looks like they're going to lose Marcus Stroman. Probably. Does the, does the initial addition of Iman make up for the loss of Stroman? And does that continue to make them a contender in the national league. Yeah, it's an interesting question.

This is a move that I think they had to make. They had to get a starter to replace Stroman if they weren't bringing Stroman back. That seems pretty clear. I still think they need a bat. You can't just let Cody Bellinger have the kind of season he had and then lose him in free agency and not replace him. He was a really big part of the Cubs success in 2023. Obviously replacing Cody Bellinger simply could be signing Cody Bellinger, right?

that that would be one way to go about that i don't know if that's uh on their radar at all but um that's a pretty good way it's like how we replaced lordis geryl junior with lordus geryl yeah it's a pretty solid way to you know if you're trying to although it is i mean with bellinger it's interesting because i don't really think that if you did bring belliger back that i would expect him to do what he did in 23 so uh might not be as as uh even of a replacement as you would think but um yeah it's interesting the the nl central is not a good division. Very poor division. You know, I think the AL Central is probably worse, but the NL Central is right, right up there with it. The St. Louis Cardinals, I think I see as the best

team in the NL Central, as crazy as that might sound after the season they just had. I still look at that roster and I see a team that I don't expect them to win 90, 95 games necessarily, but I do think the Cardinals are the best team in the Central today. But I, you know, You know, the Reds and the Brewers are still in there. You know, they both seem like right around 500 teams to me could maybe get above that depending on how the rest of the offseason goes. And I think the Cubs are kind of in that same place for me right now. If they did bring back Bellinger, if they do add a big bat, that that could, that would

probably at least in my mind make them a better, a more formidable team than the Brewers and the Reds. I still might prefer the Cardinals at that point. But in the wild card race, I think the Cubs, have a chance and in the division, I think they also have a chance given the lack of talent there. But they need to make another move. They need to add at least one bat for me to really put them, really cement themselves into the postseason conversation.

Well, we do kind of come even with the Chicago Cubs when it comes to one important factor. Jesse. And that is which MLB fans drink the most. I don't think this counts for drinking at home. I don't believe this counts for drinking in the parking lot, definitely, for sure, based on where the Philadelphia Phillies are at. But if we could take a look at this graphic, what you'll see here is that according to this graphic, Chicago White Sox fans, indeed drink the most with an average of $4.2 drinks per game, spending on average $46 per game on alcohol. Is that that's one fan? That is,

2 drinks per game. That is one fan on average drinking 4.2 drinks per game while at the game. That's a lot. That's a little concerning. That's a lot. Meanwhile,

the Diamondbacks tie with the Cubs for, I don't know, I'm not going to count all the way down there. They're about the middle of the pack, probably like 12th or 13th, somewhere around there. 3.4 drinks per game. But you know what?

These other teams can't hang with us on even close besides maybe like the twins is the average spent on alcohol because we know the diamondbacks are just killing every other team when it comes to affordable cost of drinks here in Arizona. So your your 3.4 drinks are costing you on average almost $20 less than the Chicago Cubs fans are paying for their 3.4 drinks at the really field. Yeah, I mean, I chase field. It does seem I'm not one to go around the ballpark looking for beer, especially when I'm

working but um forever it seems like there is a big distinction between like the value beer and and some of the other beers around the ballpark not every beer at chase field is necessarily super affordable uh but yeah on the whole diamond bags make that available the value beer is a big factor value beer i think it's like eight dollars and yes it's it's a small guy but sometimes people just want to they just want to sip on a beer they're not looking for a tall boy they're not trying to go out there and get smashed um especially you know here Now, the one thing we need to address is the Phillies being at the bottom of that list. They are averaging 2.4 drinks per game and spending $23 on average on alcohol, which is less than your average Diamondbacks fan.

There's a clear explanation. There's a clear explanation. They're tailgating out front. They're pre-gaming. And they're coming into the games drunk. And obviously, we've seen that based on some of the interview videos afterwards. But I think Jesse can attest to this even on some of his interactions with fans upon entering the game. Jesse doesn't go in five minutes before the game, folks.

Jesse's going in four hours, five hours before the first pitch is thrown. And you're already out there drunk. What is happening? Where I really experienced the drinking habits of Philly's fans was in the Phoenix airport after one of the, after one of the NLCS games. This is when the series was going back to Philly. I think I've told this story on the show before. But there were several people, there were a lot of people on this flight who were

Philly's fans who were just coming over from the game. There were several other reporters as well. It was like we all went from Chase Field to the airport. You've checked out of your hotel already. You were going to home the night. Yes, right. And there were several Phillies fans that were not allowed on the plane because they had a little bit too much fun at the ballpark as one of the flight attendants said on the plane.

So that's delightful. Granted, it's a postseason game. Like those fans made the trip all the way to Arizona. They were there to have a good time. get it yeah um but yeah there's probably some tailgating happening for for those fillies home games that and see that's the thing is is that i uh as much as i want to believe that is incorrect that seems to track um so anyway that's uh that's you know how things break down but uh definitely make sure that when you go out to the ballpark get yourself some beers uh help help increase that i guess i don't

know we want to be number one at everything don't we is it good i mean is it good if you're team is number one because I view the white socks being number one on that list is like yeah well you're watching the white socks you probably do need a couple more drinks right yeah i don't know if that's necessarily a you know a positive thing for your franchise are the white socks like loki jesse's least favorite team he only ever like he loves to he loves to yeah he only shoot shots at the white i did make a joke about was there was a report about the white socks moving to nashville and i was like oh but but national already has a triple a team That's what I'm saying.

It's always the white side. I do throw more shade at the white side. He does. He does. They're a pretty easy team to throw shade out. Let's let's be real here. I would love to know the impact of edibles on this list as well. But that's a whole other scientific process that we would have to figure out.

Of course. Well, we thank you guys, of course, for stopping by. We will be back tomorrow. Tomorrow is tomorrow Thursday, Jesse? I think tomorrow's Thursday. Do we want to unveil who our special guest is for Thursday? since we talk about him so often. I don't know.

You think we should? Yeah. I mean, or what I could do is have, I have an AI generated prompt ready to go. And I will just go ahead and write in there like, and create a video of Jesse telling everybody that Dan Zimborski from Fangraphs is going to join us on the show on Thursday at 1 p.m. Yeah, yeah.

Dan is the, he is the mind behind the madness that is Zips, which we talked about on the show last week. week. It's still crazy to me to think of having your name on MLB.com's glossary of terms as like a Zimborski projection system. Yeah, that I mean is the part that's like bolded just to Brian my that's what I aspire to you, Eric. I really want some some version, some knockoff of my last name being in the MLB.com glossary. The Friedman system. And yeah, but what is it? I don't know. Am I going to figure it out. I can't come up with a pretty much. The name is the most important thing. We start

there and then we'll go from there. You got to get more familiar with AI. in order to be on Zimborski's level, that's for sure. But what if my projection system is just like me just writing down numbers? There's no actual computer models. Yeah. It's just you give me the name of a player. I write down like, yeah, he's probably going to hit like 266. 109 OPS Plus.

There you go. I asked to follow this guy who on NBA Twitter, he made up like a fake stat and started just saying it like these players were, here was the rankings of this stat and it just sounded like an advanced statistics. So did he get it to catch on? In real like NBA Twitter people were like using it in their arguments. That's something we could make happen. It is unfortunate how easy it is.

Yeah. You know I love trouble and you love just stats enough just to be in on that. People just love quantifying things. So like if they have any ability to, they'll be like, well, he's sixth and WXBA plus. And you're like, people just love quantifying things. Damon Farrell. Yeah. That's it.

We're going to hang that on the wall. I love it. Right next to Max, saying of the shoulder is the window to the face, I think is what she said. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we got some good, we got some good motivational posters to make for go p.nx.com. Anyway, we thank you guys for stopping by. Of course, make sure to follow us on Twitter for more of this exciting banter. I am at cap underscore Kman with the K.

This maniac next to me is at Jesse N. Friedman. Damon, of course, is the people's producer. You can find him at Damon Dog. That's D-A-W-G. We are Damon's dogs. Bark, bark. our shows at PHNX underscore D-Backs But of course, of course, all roads do lead to at

PHNX underscore sports on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. We thank you guys so much for stopping by. We appreciate your time. We'll see you tomorrow at 1 p.m. With Dan Zimborski here with us, probably not in studio. That's probably a long flight. I think he lives on the East Coast. Yeah, we'll just have them zoom in.

But of course, we'll be back tomorrow at 1. We hope you guys join us. In the meantime, we thank you for your time today. And appreciate you. Remember, kids, baseball is fun. But it's so much more fun. when you don't lead the league in drinks per person.