PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Don't Ortiz me

Episode Date: December 8, 2021

On this episode, Jesse and Derek provide updates on the MLB Lockout and discuss the infamous contract of Russ Ortiz on our first edition of "Snake Charmer". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to the PHNX D-Backs podcast right here on PHNX. My name is Derek Montia, occasionally known as the mayor of PHNX, and this show is brought to you by the fine folks at the Draft King Sportsbook app. Go download the Draft King Sportsbook app right now. Go do it. New users. Use our code of PHNX. And for betting $1 on any team to score in any NFL game, you'll get $100 in free bets instantly.

Should they do that thing? Should they score some points? And I don't know. After watching the Buffalo Bills versus the New England Patriots game last night, I am now sketchy on whether or not teams can necessarily score points. I am joined, of course, by my vice mayor, my friend, my co-host, the one and only infamous Thunderstick, Jesse Friedman. Wow, you said all those positive things and then you had to throw the word infamous.

Yeah, well, I had to let people know. I mean, there's, in some circles, you may or may not be infamous, but how are you? perfect northwest right now, sir. Well, I was good up until when you made that very cryptic comment. You know, all I'm saying, all I'm saying is we're going to question some contracts today. And I might question yours. That's all I'm saying is yours might come into question as well. But, you know, I wanted to talk about the very, very little MLB news that we have before we get on to the main topic.

A lot of the discussions as of late have been around managerial hirings, which is kind of interesting. The Mets reportedly are scheduled to interview six different individuals for the manager job. Same with the Oakland A's to interview six for the manager job. That's, which is just kind of funny to me because I just got done watching Moneyball today. And I don't know. I feel like I know the inside and out of the Oakland A's organization better than than ever after getting a refresher on that phone. You know the ins and outs of it from 20 years ago.

2000. Oh, that's 20 years ago. Damn it. 2000. Yeah, 2002. Yes. That takes place in that. Yes, absolutely in that time frame. And oh, man, now I feel real old.

But makes me, you know what this makes me thankful for is it makes me thankful for the Arizona Diamondbacks having their entire coach search, their coaching hiring process completed before we got to this point. in the CBA negotiations on the lockout with MLB. Yeah, I think I think that was a good call on their on their front, getting that, getting that done and out of the way. It's just a really weird time right now in baseball, obviously, right? Like, it's gotten to the point where players can't even work with their trainers,

that they're used to working with. Like, it's a very weird time across the board. Yeah, definitely. And what can and can't happen, right? Like basically no actual baseball things can happen, but, you know, from per sources and reports and things that are coming out, teams are still like lining things up for when this lockout ends. That at least gives me a little bit of hope because it makes me feel like obviously you have to prepare. It's the only thing you can do. There's there's not much for you to do as a manager or as a GM during this period of time other than to try to game plan for when the lock.

out ends, it just still gives me a little bit of hope that this is going to end sooner than later. I hope so, Derek. I hope so. January 28th. I'm sticking to it with that state. Valentine's Day, baby. You know, but anyway. We are, uh, what is that? 31. We are, we are, 52 days away. 52 days away, Derek, from the end of the lockout. There you go. Well, uh, we're, we're, uh, we're like 19 days or wait, no, I'm sorry. days away from Christmas. So we are, which is equally crazy.

Yeah. That's equally crazy. Yes. I want to rub it in everybody's face that all of my Christmas shopping is complete. In fact, I have presents wrapped underneath the tree and in boxes out to UPS already. So suck it. My goal in life is to steal everybody's Christmas spirit and, you know,

make it all my own, basically. So that's why I try to get such an early jump on it. Also, I am terrible when it comes to stress, Jesse. I can't get stressed out over presents and the holiday season. Yeah, stressed out Christmas shopping is unfortunate because you wind up, you wind up just getting everyone like things that you can get them that they'll kind of like, but not really what they actually want.

That's usually the situation I find myself in. But I have to admit, Derek, I come from a family where my parents bought those like fake Christmas gifts, you know like those things that they kind of like look like gifts and they're and they appear to be wrapped and like there's something inside of them but there's actually nothing in them they're just like empty placeholder boxes and we put them under the tree because no one in my family really buys any gifts or at least nobody in my family wraps any gifts before like 11 a.m. on Christmas day. And so we just we just fill the tree with all of these fake gifts and it makes it feel like the Christmas season throughout December, even when none of us have actually started on our Christmas

shopping yet. I applaud that. It also gives me an anxiety attack to think about. Yeah, you probably wouldn't do so well in my family. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. That's what you do.

I understand what you're saying. I understand the panic shop feeling. You know, it's what we talked about. Some teams kind of seemed to do in free agency prior to the end of the CBA and the lockout happening. It seemed like some teams kind of were just. trying to grab that last-minute gift, you know, before they went to the Christmas Eve family gathering.

And that's the best way I can compare today's main topic, is that at one point, the Arizona Diamondbacks must have absolutely been panic shopping with a few days left before Christmas. With all of the historically bad free agency, now there's not that many because we haven't been around that long. Not that many. But I do want to cover some of these topics over the next few weeks since we have the time and the ability to do so in a new segment that we're calling Snake Charmer. Snake Charmer.

I need that. I need that back up. Let's get that back up there one more time. Oh, wow. We're fighting back and forth. I'm not used to working with a producer. So shout out to Aaron for being here and helping us out. Yeah, look at that.

So we're going to talk in our Snake Charmer segment about a few of the free agency contracts that the Arizona Diamondback sign that have been, become a bit infamous, just like Jesse Friedman in the Pacific Northwest. Yes. As far as, you know, their purpose and what the end result actually was. So as suggested by today's title, we are going to cover on today's show the Arizona Diamondback signing of Russ Orr's. The man, the myth, the legend.

Historically known for being right, one of the worst contracts, one of, or in the running for the worst contract, the Arizona Diamondbacks have ever made. And this topic came up based on a tweet from our Mr. Infamous himself, Jesse Friedman, who tweeted out the other day, do you ever just wonder how Russ Ortiz was given, Russ Ortiz was given 22 starts for the 2005 debacks when he was this bad. 115 innings pitch, 147 hits allowed, 92 runs, 88 earn runs, 65 walks, 46 strikeouts,

a 6.89 ERA, a one, that just can't be right, a 1.8 for whip, a 1.8 for whip. That's 19 more walks than strikeouts and an 8.3% strikeout. rate what and that's that's how jesse ended his tweet with the what at the end i tried to emphasize it with both the exclamation point and the question mark as jessie you did you did a pretty good job thanks i appreciate that yeah uh what a what a crazy stat what a crazy situation when you think of that obviously a lot of people that have watched this team for a long time are well aware of how bad uh the 2005 slash partial 2006 season was for Russell Ortiz as an Arizona Diamondback.

But it does arguably go down as one of the worst contracts in history, right? Yeah, it was, I have the numbers here. It was four years and 33 million that the Diamondbacks gave to Russ Ortiz, which with those kind of numbers is not exactly what you're, not exactly what you're looking for. I am dumbfounded by Russ Ortiz, Derek, because as you've alluded to, based on what we were talking about before coming on the air, and based on what you've written in our little show rundown here,

Russ Ortiz had some very good seasons in his time in the major leagues. Correct. Right? Which is kind of dumbfounding that he actually had good seasons and then he came to the Diamondbacks and did what he did. What's weird to me is that he never really struck out that many guys. Now, 2005, of course, this was the worst season of his career. But he never really was a big strikeout guy.

And his walk rate was always kind of high too, even in his good seasons. So in some ways, I'm kind of just dumbfounded how Russ Ortiz ever managed, you know, to be an all star in 2003, which apparently he was. And to put together some actually pretty good seasons when I'm not really sure what aspect of his game was working for him. His ground ball rate isn't very high. He didn't really strike anyone out. his walk rate was kind of high.

I think Russ Ortiz might have just gotten lucky for a few seasons. It's a really interesting situation with this guy. Well, if you were an Arizona Diamondback fan from the beginning, you got a strong dose of Russ Ortiz for a long time before he became a member of the Arizona Diamondbacks. Russ Ortiz pitched in Major League Baseball from 1998 to 2007. Then he had a little bit of a resurgence in a comeback in 2009 and 2010. And then he ended his career.

So as far as a starting pitcher goes, a pretty good career, right? Yeah, he was around for a while. Yeah. You know, ends his career with a 4.51 ERA and 113 wins. So overall, a pretty solid career, right? As far as those numbers are concerned, nothing Hall of Fame worthy or anything like that. But at the same time, somebody who established himself over a number of years. What's odd is how the wheels.

completely fell off for Russ Ortiz once he joined the Arizona Diamondbacks. When I say, when I say he was a, you know, a thorn in our side, he was a San Francisco giant from 1998 to 2002. So we got a lot of Russ Ortiz. I hated his face. I hated seeing his face. I couldn't stand him. He was just a really good pitcher.

He won a lot of games. And just, again, not anybody that was highly coveted. or talked about, but somebody that seemed to do well against us. And again, somebody that was just a division rival that over the years you grow to hate. You know, you just grow to have a different level of hatred. Well, especially, especially a guy like him, because like I said, I just can't pinpoint how he was ever effective to begin with. Like, there's no, there's no really compelling aspect of his game. He didn't get ground balls.

He didn't really have a whole lot of swing and miss in his game. it doesn't make sense why Russ Ortiz was as effective as he was for those few years. And that's what kind of makes you mad as a as a fan of an opposing team, right? When when some team that you're rooting against has this guy who like manages to stifle you. And it doesn't make sense why. Like he just didn't have the pitches that you think would would lend itself to that. And so that, I mean, I was only, I wasn't old enough to remember those days at the time. but nonetheless, I mean, it's crazy, I'm sure, what it must have been like as a fan watching the Diamondbacks go down to a guy like Russ Ortiz from time to time.

Well, let's just say if I had the Draft King Sportsbook app back then, I wouldn't have bet on the Diamondbacks when Russ Ortiz was pitching against them. And that, I feel like is a perfect segue for me to remind you that you can use our code at PHNX over at the Draft King Sportsbook app. get one. I'm complimenting my own segways now. You are. You are. Yeah. But for $1, you can bet on any team to score and you'll get $100 in free bets instantly. Just a reminder, baseball season isn't happening right now. Nothing's happening in baseball, in fact. So we can't claim that Draft Kings is the sports betting partner of the MLB because we don't know if that'll be part of the CBA or not, but they are the official sports betting partner of the NFL. And just a reminder that you can get in, like I get in, with the same game parlay. you can bet more legs and get more money and it's that simple.

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Was that game in Buffalo? Is that where it? Yeah, yeah. I think it probably was. Buffalo in December is a nasty, nasty place. I used to live in Syracuse, and it took one winter for me to leave Syracuse and never come back ever again, ever lived there. It's very close to Buffalo, too.

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See draftkings.com slash sportsbook for details. And Jesse, I want to get into Russ Ortiz's pre-D-BAC's career and debacks career here a little bit. And I'm talking about specifically right before and when he became a D-Back. So coming into this deal with the Arizona Diamondbacks, Russell Ortiz was an all-star in 2003, 21 and 7, 34 starts with a 3.81 ERA in that season. Over 68 starts in two seasons for the Braves, 3.97ERA,

292 strikeouts, and I don't believe it was 14 walks. 214 walks. 240 walks. That is definitely missing from that, traffic. But yeah, like a 4.0 ERA overall in seven seasons with the Giants and Atlanta. So one thing that you said in regards to that is what did they see in him or what was he doing well? I mean, I don't know what he was doing well, but he was consistent, right? Even if he walked a lot of guys, there was still that higher strikeout rate, right? And still the low

ERA sort of. He got, he let guys get on, but he didn't, he, he was able to get out of those situations, essentially is what, uh, the, the ridiculously high walks that, you know, in that time frame goes. But when you talk about his time, with the debacks in 28 starts over two seasons, 7.02 ERA,

67 strikeouts, 87 walks, uh, then released in June of 2006, being owed $22 million. still on his $33 million contract with the Arizona Diamondbacks. Wow. So they paid him 11 when he was on the team and then they paid him 22 after he left the team. Correct. Oh my God.

Yes. Again, that part of it, I think, is why it is widely considered to be one of the worst free agency moves in history. I think it's how short the time was here, how they still ended up owing him that money, and just everything that that went down with that deal. The steep decline in his career the minute he became in Arizona Diamondback. And honestly, it's not even like once he left, he got things back on track, right? I mean, he played for two more seasons before a hiatus. He went to the Baltimore Orioles where his ERA ballooned up even high. higher to 8.48 ERA.

And then he went back to the Giants in 2007 where things were a little bit more reasonable. He was two and three in 12 games and eight starts. He had a 5.5-1 ERA. He's still like he wasn't good. Like ever since he went to the Diamondbacks, he was not ever good after that. Yeah, never good again. Just back down to not being as bad as he was once he became like once he went back to the Giants, you know, he had more strikeouts than walks at least, 27 strikeouts and 20 walks in the 2007 season.

That's like such a like such a low bar for success though. I am just flabbergasted though by these numbers going back, you know, to your tweet, right? I mean, why would you start him for 22 games? Well, here's the thing that you fail might fail to remember. and I'm not suggesting you are. I absolutely fail to remember, please. 2004 was the worst season in our franchise's history. Right.

So from that point, it was truly a rebuilding year. I'm sure at times people are going to look at the 20-21 season and ask a lot of questions about it, that unless you lived through it and watched it and, you know, were invested in this team, you might not really understand. I hear a lot of things about the Diamondbacks. As a matter of fact, sometimes it frustrates me because it seems like some of the most dedicated fans on Twitter are the ones that are least understanding.

I'm not saying that they are least knowledgeable. I'm saying they're at least understanding of the debaq situation. There's a lot of negativity thrown around anytime we bring up anything in regards to this team being better. You know, obviously the Mark Malanson signing was kind of laughed at by a lot of. lot of people because why would you need a closer if you can't get a lead going into the ninth inning, right? I get it. There's just, I think a lot that, you know, was so close to really not being as, and now I'm just making excuses for this team, but there was so much that seemed like it was so close to not being as bad as this team really was this season. There were so many games that felt like

they should have gone in a different way. There were so many, like just kind of heart wrenching moments where you thought the team was getting things back on track because, you know, oh, hey, like here, maybe they'll win multiple games in a row and then just another, you know, six runs put up in the fourth or fifth inning or a reliever blows it or whatever the case may be. And here we are back to losing multiple games in a row. It was a ridiculous season to watch as far as putting guys out on the field. And I think that's kind of what 2005 was about was getting capable players out there to start. You could ask that all you want,

but it was like he wasn't injured that season. He was able to go out there and pitch. So even though he wasn't good, they still needed guys to go out there. I might be wrong about this, but wasn't Randy Johnson gone after the 2004 season? Yeah. Yeah.

So I mean, this was the first things they did after he left. Right. And this was, seen as like the big i think that was the problem was it was seen as the big move to replace randy johnson like the changing of the guard from randy johnson to russ or d's oh poor russ and then he comes in 6.890 r a 68 is 65 walks 46 strikeouts the strikeouts by far to me is the most shocking drop yeah 46 in a 115 it i mean that is not that is not

not very many his strikeouts. Well, I mean, when you look at Russell Ortiz's career, right? He led the league in walks twice. So him, including his All-Star season, when he was a Cy Young candidate and an MVP candidate, inexplicably. What exactly happened in baseball in 2003 that was possible? He won 21 games that year, which led the league. That's what it was. It was the 21 wins.

Voters 20 years ago. loved the win statistic. If a guy was a 20-game winner, you were automatically in the Sy Young conversation. It didn't really even matter what you're in other numbers. I mean, he finished fourth place in the Sy Young conversation that year. That's ridiculous. My goodness.

But yeah, I think that what the Diamondback saw was a veteran coming over that had been consistent throughout his career and was kind of peaking with the Braves. I mean, 21 and 7 in 2003, 15 and 9 in 2004. And when you had to play against the Brave several times like the Diamondbacks did, you probably got to see a lot more yet again of Russell Ortiz coming in and being very good against you. It's a tantalizing offer, especially when you consider the longevity of his career at that point and how he, when you look at his stats, consistently got better.

He really did. I mean, the season, in 2004 was his, like, second, third highest ERA in his career, but prior to that, he had, you know, kept it under four the majority of the time. And then he had that all-star year and, you know, the year when he won 20, 21 games. I'm guessing, especially after watching entirely too much money ball today, I'm guessing a lot of it is that stuff that you see in that movie, right? the feeling and the, you know, you're combining your experience with this and that. And there's just a lot of stuff that even though there are red flags with someone like Russ Ortiz, they still decided to give them at the time a very large contract, which it's funny how laughable $33 million is now for four years.

But back then, that was quite a bit of money, Jesse. Yeah, that doesn't sound like much right now. But yeah, if you take into account inflation, that's, that's probably like a 50, you know, $60 million contract equivalent for, for what we have today, which is significant, right? I mean, he wasn't paid like, you know, like an ace, which is, which is good. The Diamondback has had a much bigger problem on their hands, on their hands if they'd gone out and given him $80 million or something. But, but, like, what John Gray got.

Yeah, something like that. Right. With the Rangers. Yeah. Yeah. kind of a good middle of the rotation type starter that you, you know, see some, some upside in, something like that. Yeah, I think it was a 56 million and four years for John Gray. So I think that would probably be the equivalent to the Russell Ortiz deal. And, you know, speaking of that, we've kind of talked about how much money the Rangers threw around.

And they have a lot of expectations to live up to for that same reason. You threw all that money around. now you better be a lot better than you were in order to justify spending half a billion dollars. Yeah, I feel for Texas Rangers fans right now because on one hand you're so excited. But I mean, we've seen teams win, you know, win free agency and then come out and have horrible seasons numerous times, right? The Padres where I have been a big example of this multiple times now, particularly a few

years ago when they had Craig Kimberl and, you know, Melvin Upton Jr. and Matt Kemp and that whole regime of Padres players. And they were a disaster, right? They were a huge disaster. It didn't work. The Rangers are I kind of put in a different category because I think people already recognize that the Rangers might be winning the winter, but I don't know if people are really expecting them to be that good. Outside of the Rangers own organization, I'm sure their own fans have high expectations now, which is kind of why I worry for them. But yeah, they're a, they're a franchise in a curious position right now because they have these headliner names on their roster, but I just don't see.

They haven't, they haven't even really won the winter yet in some ways because they've got a lot of other roster spots to fill other than just their middle infield. Well, it's interesting you bring that up because I read a CBS Sports.com article recently by R.J. Anderson where he graded all of the free agency off-season moves for the teams. And I will honestly say there's no way that I could assess the rosters of other teams well enough to do this for all of the teams in baseball like our man, Mr. Anderson did. But I did find it particularly interesting that the, Arizona Diamondbacks got a C grade for their moves,

which again is actually a little bit higher. For Mark Melanson? Melanson and Jordan Looplo. Yep. Okay. And they said both will make the Diamondbacks a little better than they were last season. That's about the long and short of it. Right.

And so I think the Diamondbacks haven't lost much to say that they didn't do a good job, you know, in free agency. there's not this, they can't go any lower than they went. But a couple of teams can, like the Rockies and the Dodgers, which were both given degrades in our division so far. They lost some players. Some key players, right? So it's going to be interesting how all that shakes out.

And once we get through this ridiculous lockout situation, we can get back to some free agency happenings. But for now what we can be thankful for is that the Arizona Diamondbacks, did not make a Russ Ortiz quality move this free agency offseason. Well, let's hope so, Derek. Let's look. Well, okay. Knock on wood.

What am I doing here? We haven't even played baseball yet. I will say this, though. You can find out some more information. We're going to have some articles on go phnx.com. I'm going to write a little bit more about how this CBA, the new CBA could impact the Diamondbacks, shifting their draft position.

And hopefully, when we talk about that, we mean shifting up back to the number one draft pick. So go over to go PHNX.com, become a member. You can become an annual member, and you'll either get a, you will get a membership, but you also get a free t-shirt over at the PHNX Locker.com. Go check out the PHNX Locker.com. By the way, if you haven't, I, excuse me, I love our t-shirts. I've talked about them on the show before.

The Coyotes keep coming out. the coyotes lose entirely too many games to have as cool of t-shirts as they have on phmx locker that's all i'm saying i'm not making any wild that they don't hold that against us too derrick no i you're right you're right but i'll say this uh piti deserves all the shirts so he makes up uh Craig morgan eating a hot dog with ketchup and piti uh somehow storming the studio over declaring war against the PHNX Sun Show, by far makes him the MVP. He might be the mayor of PHNX now. I don't know, but go become a member.

If you don't want to become an annual member, you can become a month-to-month member, and you'll get your first month for just 50 cents. So go do that. Go do that now. Jesse, you have any final thoughts on Russell Ortiz and this terrible contract? I do. So this is something that I commented on my original tweet. So some people may have seen this.

but I think it's, it kind of puts this into perspective. So we talked about the staggering strikeout numbers, just 46 strikeouts in 115 innings, just how, how absurdly low that, that number is, right? And I think what really puts it into perspective for me, Derek, is if you go, if you look at his strikeout rate, his strikeout rate was at 8.3% that season, right? You mentioned that earlier, which is up,

which is tremendously low. Major League average is usually about 21, 22%. something in that range. And Russ Ortiz's that season in which he pitched 150 innings was about one third of that at 8.3%. Matt Peacock, Derek, on the Diamondbacks, who is not exactly known as a strikeout artist. He's a guy who gets fewer strikeouts than just about anyone on the Diamondbacks pitching staff. He's more of a ground ball guy, right? That's how he gets his outs.

Matt Peacock had a 13% strikeout rate last season, which is almost twice what Russ Ortiz's was when. And he made 22 starts. So there you go. Matt Peacock had a third 10% strikeout rate. They're both. I mean, yeah. I don't mean by Matt Peacock like that.

I'm laughing at Russell Ortiz is really what I'm laughing. And Matt Peacock in his defense, Matt Peacock gets ground balls. His ground ball rate was almost 60%. So that's how, I mean, Matt Peacock is still, you know, sort of a work in progress. But you can understand how he could get some outs. Russ Ortiz never had a ground ball rate above. 50% and it was usually in the low 40s. And so I don't understand, Derek.

I don't understand not only why did the diamondbacks make this move in the first place, but how on earth was this man an all star and finished in top five voting in the Sy Young Award? It makes absolutely no sense. Jesse, 21 wins. That's literally the only number, which is why I'm so glad that voters are more informed now because that is such a stupid argument to put a guy, top five in the Sy Young voting just because of that.

Led the league in walks that year, by the way. Yeah, Led the league in walks. There you go. Well, you can follow us all on Twitter. Russ Ortiz is at OU Russ. I am at Matt Khapp underscore Kman with a K. Jesse is at Jesse and Friedman. Our show is at PHNX underscore D-BACs.

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