PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Is MLB trying to SWINDLE minor leaguers out of a proper wage in Arizona?

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

MLB is trying to be Arizona lawmakers to make minor league players exempt from minimum wage in the state, and that just seems wrong. We have more on the financial move by baseball as well as answers to your Mailbag Monday questions, like which PHNX personalties we are putting in the Legends race.An ALLCITY Network ProductionSUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtubeALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsports PHNX Events: Get your tickets to D-backs Takeovers, Knockout Nights & Suns Watch Parties at BetMGM, and MORE here: https://www.eventbrite.com/o/phnx-56002330273 Desert Financial Credit Union: Open a free checking account online with Desert Financial Credit Union and get $200 in bonuses https://www.desertfinancial.com/200Michelob ULTRA: It’s only worth it if you enjoy it. Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. https://www.michelobultra.com/Schedule a free in-home estimate with Empire Today! All listeners can receive a $350 OFF discount when they use the promo code PHNX. Restrictions apply. See EmpireToday.com/PHNX for details.Sign up for Gila River Resorts & Casinos $1,000,000 Big Red’s Showdown! Stay in the game and get rewards; it’s that easy! https://www.gilamilliondollarshowdown.com/Gametime: Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase.Circle K:  Join Inner Circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today! Head to https://www.circlek.com/store-locator to find Circle Ks near you!OGeez!: OGeez! is not your average cannabis-infused gummy. Head on over to https://www.ogeezbrands.com to find out where you can purchase. Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. Four Peaks: Follow them on social @fourpeaksbrew & @fourpeakspub! Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. When you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Ski to you all. Welcome in to another edition of the PHMX D-Backs podcast right here on PHNX. Let's, what is that drum? All right, that's crazy. It goes crazy. Welcome in, of course. I am your mayor, PHNX. Occasionally know as Derek Montia.

This man next to me is your vice mayor, occasionally known as Thunderstick Jesse Friedman. Shout out to Sean DePaul. our condolences on what happened to your Buffalo Bills. We know you're out there sad somewhere. Get fucked, buddy. He's thrilled. The guy was dancing on my grave last week after Jetfish and the Dolphins lost.

Oh, and then he's nowhere to be found this week. Where is he? Where's John was? Oh, is what he's hanging out with. But anyway. Loser City. Well, we welcome you guys into another wonderful episode of Mailbag Monday. We had a very beautiful weekend.

I know I did at least going to, you know, fancy art auctions and stuff. But Jesse was out at Chase Field and he got himself a picture of a beautiful new sign. I don't know if everybody out there saw it. We tweeted it out. But let's take a look at that. Look at that gorgeousness. National League champions. For those of you on, yeah, for those of you on audio, the sign does in fact say 2023 nationally champions.

Don't get too excited. And it's a Diamondbacks logo, which still doesn't. fully click in my mind. It really doesn't. Yeah. The 2023 is in teal, which looks beautiful. Got some gold in there, got a little pennant in there. It's great. Great stuff. But yeah, it's just, it's nice to see this, Jesse. It's nice to see something like this out front of Chase Field. And once again, as as hectic as our postseason was, yours especially, it just, it's nice to take a moment and reflect on the fact that Dinembacks did that damn thing. They did that thing. They did. And they got the sign to prove it.

And there's going to be some more sign unveiling inside the ballpark, presumably on opening day. There will be an L champions thing revealed inside the stadium as well. Of course, that'll be very exciting for fans. But yeah, it's interesting. I mean, they do put this stuff in front of the ballpark. And I remember when there was a World Series logo on Chase Field as well. And that was also very. Those were good times.

Yeah, very, very crazy to see, to see that on, on that stadium in the year 2023 for sure. Now, today is Monday. And normally we, we banter a bit. We talk here a bit about some of things happening in Major League Baseball or the Diamondbacks before we get on to the Mailbag Monday questions. But of course, this Monday, you guys are all over everything. And one of our Mailbag Monday questions was a direct reflection of a topic we were going to talk about. So let's just get into it, shall we?

It comes from our buddy Josh Hunt. That one's not ready. Sorry, Josh Hunt actually tweeted to us in regards to our mailbag Monday questions. What are your thoughts on MLB trying to go through Arizona legislation to try and pay minor league ballpark players less than minimum wage? And this was a discussion that we were having this morning. And it's a great question because this was a story per Arizona family. And according to the story, Arizona lawmakers are considered. considering a bill to exempt major league baseball from having to pay minor leaguers the state's minimum wage of $14.25.

Right. And now that seems kind of crazy overall, right? Like that minor leaguers aren't making $14.25 an hour. Yes. Yes. That's that's why minor leagues kind of suck, right? We've talked in the past about how poorly they've been compensated and how major league baseball. attempted to make some efforts, including like housing and some other measures to try to

provide minor leaguers with a better life. Yeah. I've often said on this show that it is probably the reason why we don't get as many elite athletes playing baseball because if I was an athlete that played football, basketball, and baseball as a young person, which I never did. I'll say that right now. It was never any athletic enough to play any of those sports, let alone all three. But if you had your choice, why would you choose baseball, considering

if you do your research into it, you will find out that it's very difficult to get from where you start your journey in major league baseball, essentially as a minor league or high A, or maybe even prior to that. A lot of guys get their start prior to that versus how long it takes to make it to major league baseball. Then you have to also factor in just making it through your service time

and getting to the point where you get potentially a big contract. Like if you are somebody who is looking to be a superstar and a sport, let's say as a young person, and you're choosing which sport you want to pursue as the main, you know, as your future, things like this would definitely prevent me from pursuing baseball as my sport of choice. Yeah, absolutely. The road is extremely long for these athletes. And I guess, I guess on the flip side, you are, I mean, some guys are getting some

pretty hefty signing bonuses up front. Very true. Right. I mean, like upwards of $10 million at this point. You were talking about a 16-year-old during your night. I mean, getting 1.8 million. Yeah, absolutely. In a week.

Yeah, but that's not the, you know, the vast majority of players in teams minor league systems are not getting a $10 million signing bonus. And what they're making on a day-to-day basis actually is pretty important for them. So, yeah, it's, it's unfortunate to see, you know, I understand on some level that minor league baseball is not particularly lucrative in terms of getting fans in the seats. Right. You know, I'm not. Some areas.

Some areas do a better job of making their minor league team a draw, something that local people in a town that doesn't have maybe a major sport, come out to support, come out to see. We've talked about Hodgetown, for instance, where the Amaralo sod poodles play being a particularly hot minor league ballpark. And I mean that in attendance, not in temperature, but I'm sure it's fairly hot there as well. Yeah, it's also that. It's also that. But I mean, according to the story, MLB claims that minor leaguers are different from other work

because much of their time exercising, training, and watching videos isn't tracked on an hourly basis. Right. Which is understandable. However, that's, it's kind of convoluting the situation of a bit. Kind of semantics, yeah. It is. Like, well, we can't count how many hours you're working. Right.

So why do we have to pay you? Why should we count them at all, right? I think the idea here is that at 1425 an hour times 40 regular hours, not overtime, obviously overtime and everything else, that's kind of what they're talking about when calculating the actual hourly fee, you know, of what a minor league baseball player would make. It's it's more about like the total about like $14.25 an hour times 40 hours a week, times 52 weeks a year, roughly comes out to about $30,000 a year, which is what a lot of minor leaguers, they're not even receiving that much, right?

So it's it's not an hourly thing because you could put them on salary so that they don't have to calculate hours. That's the clear. That's the clear solution. Right. But it's when your salary. as a total is below minimum wage. That's where it violates minimum wage laws.

Why is that important in Arizona? Because we have the Cactus League here. And there are a lot of minor league players that play baseball here in the state of Arizona for, yes, a short period of time, but play here nonetheless. And it's not just the Arizona Diamondbacks minor leaguers that would be impacted by it. It's all the teams that play here. And it would be for the duration of the Cactus League here in Arizona. other states have different minimum wage laws so depending on what state they're in they might not be violating any kind of minimum wage laws if those minimum wages are set at less than the 1425 that arizona has set per hour but it's one of those situations where it just makes baseball look bad it makes baseball once again look like they don't even want to pay the very small amount that you should pay minor leaguers and honestly the problem here is that it's a temporary thing right the diamondbacks and all these other teams play here in March and part of February.

And then outside of that, a lot of the minor league teams go back home and whatever. But during that period of time, those players, if they aren't paid the state minimum wage, would potentially be, that would be a violation of Arizona state law, right? There was a time earlier this year where a major league baseball already

settled a lawsuit from a number of players. I think it was 24,000 players. We're part of this lawsuit in regards to minor leaguers not paid minimum wage, basically alleged minimum wage violations. MLB settled out of court for $185 million and agreed to pay those 24,000 players, basically somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,500 a piece. But that could be what they are essentially facing here if these minor league players come to the state of Arizona and play here and don't get paid at least a minimum wage in the time. while they're here, at least the state's minimum wage, and that's why they're seeking this. Yeah, there's also the Arizona Complex League,

which I imagine would factor into this on some level. There are players here, minor leaguers here, during the summer playing games outdoors in 110 degree heat. I would hope that they're making enough to sort of get by. I can't imagine playing baseball when it's that hot outside, but there's a reason that I'm a journalist and they're athletes, and they're able to pull that off, apparently. Diamondbacks Dispatch says I'm sure that would include the Fall League as well

The Fall League I'm not sure exactly what it is but any player who is selected to go to the Fall League does get a payout for for that so I'm not sure exactly what that is but my guess is that those players are already paid you know a reasonable amount for for those four weeks so I'm not sure if this would factor into that but but yeah there's there's really I mean once you set the minimum wage to a certain level right it the guy the notion of making exceptions to it is is a tricky business especially when you're talking about a baseball industry that you know is a multi-billion dollar industry it doesn't really make sense for anyone to be to be making exceptions on this front as far as I can tell so um yeah hopefully hopefully

they're able to not yeah hopefully this this whole thing doesn't go the way that it it it seems like it it might the fact is is that minor league players earn basically poverty level wages and very few. It's gotten better, but it has gotten better. And it's gotten better because they're supporting them in the ways of like what you use the money on, for instance, like housing, right? There are people that stay with sponsor families as minor leaguers where they live with someone else and have those people like take care of them and help them out in order for them to be, to make it along their baseball journey. I mean, there's just a lot of things here when it comes to minor league baseball. I remember at one point we were talking about Fernando Tatis Jr.

When he was a minor leaguer, taking out a loan essentially from what seemed like a pretty predatory loan company for baseball players that were giving them money up front in exchange for a percentage of their future earnings. And when you look at that, yes, Fernando Tatis Jr. did that. And yes, he probably sacrificed more of his career earnings than anyone would want to in this situation. but you also have to ask if staying in a nice living facility, like he stayed like a nice apartment with everything that you need in life to make sure that you can train and be an athlete is worth it versus some baseball players sleeping on air mattresses and eating junk food and expecting somehow to be able to compete

with the other players that aren't living in those kind of means, right? It's just it's wild sometimes what minor leaguers go through. And Gabriel said it best. Won't someone please think of the billionaires? Like there comes a point where we have to talk about how much money these organizations are making off of all of this stuff. And whether or not they can actually afford to pay their employees, which is essentially what these players are. And what those people would maybe say is like, okay, well, I am making a good amount of money or whatever. But I'm not making it off of, you know, whomever down in high A who's hitting 227, you know.

And that's a fair point. Like not everyone in your minor league system is making you a ton of money currently or will ever make you money in the future. But it's the cost of doing business, right? It's the reality that if you want to have a viable major league team, you're going to need a considerable pipeline of players to come up and not only fill out your minor league system, but eventually come up and be quality major leaguers. And you have to make sure you're putting those people in position.

to succeed. So, yeah, it's pretty hard at this point to understand any kind of argument of why, I mean, why wouldn't you want to take care of these people, right? I mean, if you really, if you really believe in them, if they're in your farm system and you really believe in them and you want them to be part of, you know, the next great Diamondbacks team or whatever, you know, for other teams as well, then absolutely you'd want to make sure that they're making enough money to get by and have reasonable housing arrangements and whatnot.

And the minor league CBA that we saw last year. year what you know there were there were considerable strides that that were made in that document and yeah you'd certainly hate to see any any of that kind of revert backward at this point i think the other thing here too is is uh and and again i'm not stating that this is a reason to not do it but i have a feeling like what happens when they do start playing paying minor league players more where well they'll most likely reduce the amount of minor league teams there are out there maybe they don't see the need to have high a and single a and double a and double A and AAA.

Maybe they don't see the need to have some of these leagues that exist and instead can figure out some other scheme, some other scam to have players participating in workouts where they can still scout them and find their next talented players while not paying them to play on a baseball team, right? I don't know. We've talked a little bit about like some of the teams are going through Vesalia Raw Hyde might not exist anymore soon. We know that the Hillsborough hops are going through some difficult things with their

stadium in regards to getting funding for that. At the end of the day, if we've already seen a reduction in minor league teams and minor league players by MLB when it impacted their overall cost, they could continue to do that if they find that they don't need these low levels of the minor league system any longer. And maybe they don't. I don't know.

There is something to be said about the fact that Major League Baseball does have the most comprehensive and extensive minor league system of any other sport to the point where it's both confirmed. And a little infuriating at times when you're trying to figure out where the hell these guys are actually at. But the thing to remember about this is that it is a voter-approved situation when it comes to Arizona lawmakers pursuing this bill. So maybe this is something that if you feel strongly about, you can make your voice heard when it comes to this. I have to agree with Jesse. And we probably are all on the same page when it comes to Major League Baseball shouldn't be exempt from the same laws that every other business,

big or small in the state of Arizona have to have to abide by they're trying to make it like baseball's version of the unpaid internship I guess but except this internship isn't it's not like for college credit or whatever it's it's sort of just indefinite right um I'm looking at this story from the athletic uh from last year about that that new minor league CBA that was put into effect and there were considerable strides but if you read these salary figures you're not exactly you're not exactly like all that impressed necessarily this document raised salaries for comp at the complex league and rookie ball level from 4800 to 19,800 which is a huge improvement but 19 grand a year is still pretty rough how did they get away with paying people 4800 yeah what the fuck yeah it's not great

single a from 11,000 to 26,200 high a 11,000 up to 27,300 double a from 138 up to 3,300 double a from 138 up to 30,250. And then in AAA, the minimum is now 35,800 up from 17,500 previously. So these are very significant increases. They are like 200% increases in some cases. But the final numbers there are still, you know, at 35 grand in this economy, you're still going to be scraping by, right? That's not exactly a comfortable living at this point.

It's wild to think that people working in a call center as an entry level. position are making more money than professional athletes are making yeah gabriel said it's crazy that i make more than professional athletes i'm a custodian who gets three months paid vacation and i make double what they do it's ridiculous yeah i don't know gabriel i think gabriel's lying about that i don't know you might not be but aren't isn't he often in another country and stuff i didn't know custodians traveled for their work isn't i could be i could be mixing gabriel up here but i'm pretty sure at times he's not in the united states the the level of skill required to be like a AAA baseball player is extremely high.

Like, no, those players aren't, you know, headlines and newspapers and they're not on TV all the time. They don't get the spotlight. But yeah, the relative talent required to do that compared to the talent required to do like most jobs that everyday people do, there's a pretty big disparity there. And yet, and yet, yeah, AAA athletes, double athletes, these guys aren't really paid like It's basically, you know, you get the big job and you, you know, you can make $300 million or you don't. And you're making $30 grand a year for however long, you know, you're able to stick on the team.

It's obviously, you know, we talk about how brutal the journalism industry is and, you know, what's happened with SI and whatnot. That was certainly sad to see over the weekend. But, I mean, baseball is is right there with it for sure. Oh, man. Gabriel gets summers off and I'm jealous about that. So we'll have to figure out. Summer, I do miss summers off a little bit. We do miss.

I do miss summers off when I was, yeah, summer's off is never going to happen in this job. The wrong job for that. On paper, you know, some people assume like, oh, like you get winter, like you get the off season off. And we do podcasts five days a week, the entire off season. We don't get any thing off. Period. There's no off time for us.

We are here 365 days a year. And we appreciate you guys being here, of course, in the Ph. export YouTube channel. Jacob's looking at me like he didn't work 12 hours on Saturday and then another nine on Sunday. We are here all the time and we are always here to make sure you guys are plugged in here to the Arizona Diamondbacks. Of course, if you haven't subscribed to the PH&XPorts YouTube channel yet, make sure to do so now. Sign up for notifications. That way you don't miss when any of our wonderful other shows go live and when we go live, drop us a like. We always appreciate you doing that. If you're listening on the audio podcasting side, we appreciate

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Jesse, Circle K, still doing their thing. Still super cheap gas. I was going to go somewhere else. I saw the gas price. Don't do it, Derek. I said absolutely not. I'm not doing that. I like...

Why would you just throw money away like that? I have a friend that will tell me things like, oh, what are you going to do, save three dollars yes yes I am going to save three dollars and I'm going to get a free thirst uh I want to say thirst buster but they don't call it Thursday I don't think they're called there's not they're called there's polar pops polar pops is really

what they're called and I know because didn't you do a video I did do a commercial for those but look it's got your face on circle case I've said it before I'm going to call a lot of these things oh I'm going to call that building over there America West arena at least three times a week I'm going to mess up on some ad names when the sponsors have been around as long as I have. I'm old. Yeah.

Give them a break. Yeah. Is America West Arena? Is that the Sun's arena? Shut up. Anyway, make sure to check my, check out Circle Day. Don't let people like this make you feel old. Hey, man, it's U.S. Airways Center in my book, all right?

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Terms and conditions apply at participating locations. Visit CircleK.com for details. But make sure to join that Inner Circle for free by downloading the source. Circle K app today. Well, again, it's Monday. We might have gotten an early start on it, but it doesn't matter because every year on this show, on the PHNXD Backs show, is our year.

And it's a new year. He doesn't like that. But it's a fact. Every year is a new year, technically. Also, every month on this show, Hispanic Heritage Month. Every week, Shark Week. Every day is Earth Day. But of course, on Mondays, we go to the mailbag.

Damon, let's go. interesting in my mailbox. I try to get to everything in my mailbox. And then once in a while, there's a letter that makes me go out. All right. What do we got, Damon? First letter from the mailbox today comes from our friend Travis Moore, more for me on Twitter.

And he asks, why does it seem like the debacks have a difficult time developing pitching in their farm system? Is that not actually true? And is it just kind of a narrative? Or is there actually something to that? I like this question because I think there might be something to that. I just don't know how really it impacts them the pitchers at a major league level when they come up. We have seen a number of Arizona Diamondbacks pitchers find success almost immediately when they come up to a major league level.

And then they kind of come back down to earth and, you know, like what we saw, Dre Jameson and Ryan Nelson. I think part of it is the conditions in which they pitch because it's hard to look at some of the young pitchers and their stat lines and the numbers. We talked about this before pitching in Amarillo, pitching. pitching in Reno, it just sucks. And honestly, if you have like a mid-5 ERA, that's probably pretty damn good when you pitch at that level. I don't think that there's any problems

with the Diamondbacks development system of developing pitchers. I just think at times it's hard to be excited about these guys when their numbers look the way they do. And unfortunately, part of that impact is the places where they pitch, is the yards that they currently are at. Yeah, this is a real thing.

Absolutely. And I think different organizations are, you know, tend to be better at developing different positions. And the Diamondbacks have their strengths as well. Left-handed hitting outfielder certainly hasn't been a problem. We got a surplus of those. I guess it's up to kind of see how some of those guys pan out. But yeah, starting pitching development has been a big issue for the Diamondbacks for a long time.

Their pitching hasn't necessarily been terrible, but it's been very dependent on their ability to make trades. you think back to the guys who have had really good seasons here, you know, on the mound over the last decade or so, they're guys who have come over from other organizations, right? Like Zach Gallen was, you know, came to the Diamondbacks and was straightened. It was already, had already been pitching in the majors in Miami and continued there for the Diamondbacks. You think back to Robbie Ray, who was pretty much, you know, pretty close at least at that point to being to being a major league pitcher. he certainly had some success with the Diamondbacks before going elsewhere.

Zach Granky, obviously a free agent signing. Ian Kennedy came over in a trade, you know, had a couple really good seasons on the mound. This is absolutely a real thing. The Diamondbacks at some point are going to have to figure out how to develop their own guys, right? To take a starting pitcher from the draft, someone they drafted all the way to being a productive Major League starter. and Brandon Fott has a chance to kind of break the trend there, right? Brandon Fott has an opportunity to be the first pitcher that the Diamondbacks drafted and developed and turned into a formidable Major League starter all on their own in quite some time.

And, you know, based on what we saw in the postseason and what Dan Zimborski's computer thinks about Brandon Fott heading into 2024, I think there's a pretty decent chance that that could happen. But, you know, even if it does, it can't stop with him, right? The Diamondbacks are going to need to continue to find ways to develop pitchers in-house, you know, without having to make some kind of jackpot trade like the Zach Galland deal turned out to be. Gabriel makes a great point in the chat. He says pitching is always a crapshoot.

The two big-name pitchers, he's Jack Leiter and Kumar Rocker have yet to reach the AAA level. And they were drafted almost three years ago. Yeah. And, I mean, that could be said about baseball players in general. Yeah, the Diamondbacks are not the only team. that has had some issues with this. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, so we got, Damon.

Next question comes from Adam Thomas at Adam Thomas Zero or Adam underscore Thomas on Twitter. And he asks, do you think Corbyn Carroll can ever reach the 40-70 mark or even 30-60 numbers that Ronald Ocuna put up? Or do you think his home run ceiling lies in the mid-20s wouldn't get enough opportunities stealing bases? When I look at that, the base stealing doesn't feel like a problem at all. hitting 60 stolen bases for Corbyn Carroll,

I don't think that's the issue. I do think it's the home run ceiling. I think that ultimately Corbyn Carroll has some power. He has some pop in his bat, but I don't know if it's the kind of power that's going to get you over 30 home runs in a season. I will say that,

I mean, he is still developing out of the player and what we've seen out of him so far, it has his ability to surprise and impress when it came to power. But if you were asking me about those particular type numbers, it's not the sole basis. I even feel like he could reach 70. That doesn't seem that outlandish to me.

But if you're asking me about Corbyn hitting 40 home runs, that that seems a little more unlikely. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. 40 homers, I don't know if I see him ever getting there. 30 homers, I think, is reasonable, right? He just had 25 in a season. You know, I don't know if Corbyn Carroll is necessarily going to get like a ton more power

as he continues to play in the majors, but he certainly could get some. I don't think 30 is out of the question. Looking at his numbers from last year, he had 27 homers, including the playoffs. According to Statcast, his expected homers was 23.7.

So it's like looking at all of his batted balls and like how many, how many the computer thinks would actually have gotten over the fence. So it's a little bit lower. It's a little bit lower than what his actual number was. There were some wall scrapers for sure.

They weren't all wall scrapers, though. There was, you know, the 440 foot homer against Corbyn Burns and the playoffs that a lot of people will remember for a long time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he absolutely has some power. I don't know if I see 40 in there. I think 3060 is possible, however. And even that in itself would be pretty remarkable, right? I mean, he was already at 54 stolen bases.

That's including a period of a couple weeks following his knee injury in Colorado where he just wasn't really stealing bases. So yeah, if he has a full healthy season. You know, there was his struggles. So if consistency is there a bit more and he's able to get on base a bit more, then, yeah, I mean, the opportunities are there for him to steal bases. The only other thing going against that is the word is out about Corby and Carroll stealing bases. So it's going to be interesting how that impacts them holding him on base. But with the new rules, you're still kind of handcuffed as far as how many times you can throw over to first and all of that stuff.

So I think Corbyn's still going to be a menace on the base path. What else we got, Damon? I am Luis Romero asks, where is J.D. Martinez with the it's been 84 years gift underneath it. It's actually only been about six and a half years. Oh, shut up. Jesus. How long is it? Jesse Wanchett tells how long it's been since the Diamondbacks made a move.

It's been about a month now, I think, right? Lourdes is like shortly before Christmas. Well, actually. Well, actually. I've been some minor league moves. So actually, yes, there has been more, it is more recent. Tucker Barnard. But yes, I'm sorry.

I'm completely losing my train of thought. What's the question here? Oh, it's about J.D. Martinez. Yeah, Scott Boris holds a whole lot of cards right now. And not much is happening with regard to the J.D. Martinez market. As far as we're aware, there hasn't really been any reporting about his market at all. as well as with the other Boris free agents recently. So yeah, there's still a lot of work to be done here.

If it really was about people being a menace, I would inject my own mailbag Monday question about Scott Boris being a menace. Is Scott Boris a menace to baseball? But considering the conversation we just had to lead off this show, is Scott Boris actually a hero? No. Is this man going out and getting these players the money that they should, to rightfully have been given over the last like 10 years of playing baseball and he's just like,

it's time to fork it over, right? I don't know. Well, yeah, I mean, I guess it all depends on who you're talking to, right? Yeah, he's a big for the justice of players. I'm not sure front office executives would feel that way necessarily. No, not at all. There's a reason that so many players hire this guy for sure. Look, some people like Spider-Man, but Jay Jonah Jameson absolutely hates Spider-Man.

And that's like a similar situation I feel like here. And I know that's a reference he didn't get, but kids, children, small ones. from the 60s even anyway we got a follow-up question in regards to that question about jaddy martinez and this comes from sergeant's orders on twitter james sergeant asked what's taking so long when it comes to assigning a dh do we prefer jd or so lair or is there someone else out there to fill this spot and i don't know i'm starting honestly i've been a big obviously i've been a big jd martinez not a big jd martinez guy anymore huh well it's not that i'm not a big jad d martinez i think i've just been I've been talked out of it a little bit by the likes of you and other people.

Dan Zimborski. Oh, Dan Zimborski basically just ended that that love affair that I had with him. But I will say that I don't know what's taking so long, but I feel like the pursuit is actively going on. I don't feel like Diamondbacks aren't working on it. We've said they're never really going to tell us when, if they don't land somebody, that they were going after them anyway. But it definitely feels like one of those two guys are likely.

Solair seems to have a little bit more value, maybe a little bit more usage, like just as far as, you know, at least he can play outfield. Yeah, I feel like you could get a little bit more out of Solair. But I, yeah, I very much like for something to happen in regards to this. It feels like, you know, again, it's starting to drag on, but so is all a major league baseball. So if the Diamondbacks were just kind of the ones dragging their feet on this and a lot of these deals were happening and I was in the feeling, We were in danger of one of these guys signing soon. I'd feel differently.

But it's just right now, Major League Baseball Free Agency is come to just a screeching halt. I mean, the Josh Hader move happened on Friday, but outside of that, not a lot of things are happening. So I still have hope that the Diamondbacks are going to sign one of these guys. And I think it's, once again, it's a mistake if they don't. Yeah, absolutely.

I think Dan outlined well that the Diamondbacks absolutely should go get a DH. And we certainly feel the same way here. Jack Summers over at Inside the Diamondbacks did a good job, kind of compiling composite projections for the various free agent targets. And JD Martinez is at the bottom of the list. You look at the projected OPS. I think this is a composite number from both Zips and Steamer over at Fangraphs. Jorge Soler has the highest projected OPS, then Reese Hoskins,

who's basically tied with Jock Peterson. Then it's Justin Turner. And then it's J.D. Martinez at the very bottom of the list. He's projected for fewer wins above replacement than everyone else. And he's also expected to potentially get the most money, at least on a per year basis. I wouldn't be surprised if JD gets more than any of those other guys. So as much as I get the interest in JD and the storyline, you know, the storyline would be fantastic. It's love, him coming back to Arizona.

Sometimes you just love someone. Yeah. Sometimes love is inexplicable, but you just love someone, you know. Sometimes they hurt you. Sometimes they cheat on you and they go to an opposing team in the NL West. But that's okay. Sometimes you're willing to look past those those transgressions, those things that happen. It's called the past for a reason.

It's past. And now here we are. Let's renew, rekindle this thing. I don't care about what your OPS Plus is going to be. I love you. And I still have like some skepticism with what those projections systems say. The reality is that J.D. Martinez was a very, very good hitter in 2023. and he could be a very good hitter in 2024.

Could you imagine if I dyed my hair like his, whatever hair color he happens to have when he comes here? I mean, we know what it happened with Lourdes. Do we expect J.D. Martinez to dye as in purple? Who knows? Who knows? I don't know J.D. is that guy. But Brandon Stevens makes a great point, by the way. He said J.D. is great,

but I did witness Solerid a home run out to Gonso's grill. I was there for that game. I know the exact home run that he's talking about. And that would be nice to see more often. And I think that when he hit that home run, I literally said, Jesus Christ, that is the hardest I've ever seen a ball hit in the state. Yeah, that was, that was a shot. It was incredible. I just remember watching it go and then bounce on the concourse.

And then, like, I don't know where it went. I don't know if it got lodged up in the sign or something, but yeah. That was when Brandon fought was just pitching batting practice to everybody. Correct. Correct. There was a, there was a time. I didn't need that. That was a little.

That was a little rough for Brandon fought for a while there. But yeah, in terms of a, there was a, there was a little rough for a little rough for. like our preferences here. If not JD, I think Jorge Soler or Reese Hoskins both make a lot of sense for the Diamondbacks. Hoskins obviously coming back from the ACL but he was a really darn good, really consistent

hitter prior to that. Don't really have a huge reason to think that he won't be able to get back to that point. Also could be a potential replacement for Christian Walker if the Diamondbacks decide that they don't want to re-sign him. You get Hoskins on a two-year dealer or whatever. He becomes your your first baseman for 2025. The thing about Reese Hoskins is there's some other intangibles like that veteran leadership and him being on teams that, you know, bring over that experience.

He's very well liked in Philly for sure. It's just a matter of does he still have it? We don't know until we see him play baseball. Younger than some of the other guys on this list for sure. Younger than all of them, really. He's younger than Solair, younger than Peterson. Do you think? Certainly younger than Turner.

Do you think I am using age as a reason for him not to still be good? I'm just saying he was injured and he didn't play baseball. baseball last season. Jesse, I would never be an agist and say it's, I watch Evan Longoria play on this team this year. I don't know if you remember that, but somebody, one person on this set might have wanted to DFAM on

day one. All I'm saying. And we saw, that was not me. It wasn't, it wasn't me either. I'm just saying I eventually ended up shirtless just like him. When we celebrated going to the World Series. So, I love Evan Longoria. And I would love to have somebody again like if you talk about the other additional things they bring it almost it almost feels like jd so lair brings or jd selaar so lair brings that's what they should do there just just sign jd sallar

one person and then all of our problems are sold jd salar hoskins all right well of course if you guys are here right now in the p hn export youtube channel and you are a diehard thank you for being one we appreciate you being part of the family if you're not sign up for a diehard membership today over at go p hnx You will get a free t-shirt from a PHNX Locker.com of your choosing. But on top of that, you get some wonderful content, including Jesse's, whatever Jesse's writing, all of Jesse's stuff that he writes, all of the stupid stuff I make on video. You get a game show on Discord. You get all sorts of interactions with us, including what was it, the city council meeting,

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How did you do this weekend? How'd you do on NFL? Do we not want to talk about it? He's making faces that make me feel like we don't want to talk about it. So I was feeling great because I took like an alternate total on Travis Kelsey's receiving yards yesterday. And I was like 100, 100 plus receiving yards for Travis Kelsey at plus 400. That seems criminal. So I took it.

He had 65 in the first half, caught a ball right out of the third quarter and was at 75. And then didn't get one catch the final like 25 minutes of the football game. It's got to make you sick. It's got to make you sick. Yeah, it was pretty tough. I went one and two on my bets. All right. Well, that's not bad.

This weekend show. You didn't do as bad as Clay Travis, that's for sure. But you can do much better than both of these guys by downloading the BetMGM Sportsbook app on iOS or Android or visiting betmgum. And sign up with our code of PHNX. If you do and deposit $5 in your newly created account, spend that money on a standard odds price or more, you will get yourself $158. Regardless of the outcome of your wager in honor of Super Bowl 58. You can sign up now for bet MGM. and use that bonus code PHNX. Again,

same game parlay's the way to go. Just stack those bets. Don't let anybody like Damon call them coward bets. I'm not doing 100 plus yards. I would have done 25 yards or something ridiculous. That would probably been like minus 1,100. But maybe I'll pair it with some other stuff to get some money. I don't know. That's the way you can do things around here.

Try to do safe bets. That way you're not left in disappointment. But you use bet MGM sportsbook how you want to. And of course, again, if you sign up and place your first bet sportsbook wager through the mobile application for at least $5 and use our bonus code of PHNX, you will receive $150 instantly in additional winnings regardless of your wager's outcome. Check out the show notes for full details, and now listen to Damon, talk about the disclaimer. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler.

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That's my island. What else we got, Damon? Next question comes from the Adam 027. Adam, the Fox. That's such a cool fucking name. The Fox? He says, well, this brings up an interesting question between you and PHNXD backs. This was actually a question.

This is referring to a certain tweet from PHS. From a certain P.HNX. Suns account. It says, does this name apply more to the fourth quarter sons or the D-Backs bullpen? Let's take a look at the meme that we are talking about, Jesse. Of course, the meme in question is my meme that I created. It's this one right here. Ladies and gentlemen, the bullpen.

And those of you that are Diamondbacks fans, there's no explanation needed here as to what this means or what this is in regards to. We didn't use it as much toward the end of the season. Yeah, after July, I didn't use it, but I used it a lot in April and May. After Seawald and T-Time? Oh, after, yeah, once we were in tea time with Seawald, yeah, no, there was no one. And once Ginkle got called back up? Yeah. Yeah.

Is the bowl. It was Ginklemania. Is the bullpen meme extinct, Derek? Ooh. Is it done? Don't, don't do that. Don't do that. They're testing fate.

Fair not. Fair not. That's ridiculous. And then let's take a look at the Sun's pathetic excuse for, I mean, what is that font they're using. That's awful. What is this? 2015? Okay, I want to point out here that the fourth quarter has an E there.

Yeah, that should be. I was going to say the same thing. That right there shows that the person that made this meme has no idea what this meme is actually about. All right. For those of you that don't understand, Daniel Craig was introducing on this episode of Saturday Night Live, the artist, The Weekend. And if you are not familiar, the weekend doesn't have any. Does not even I know that. See, he gets it.

He gets it. Well, it does have too easy at the beginning. But it doesn't have the EATs. It's the one at the end. We can't. Right. And so we were the bullpun, right? And so, like, it's that symbol.

Obviously, you know which meme was made with love and care and thought and which meme was just an obvious copycat, right? Elizabeth calls it a hand-me-down meme. It's a hand-me-down meme. Yeah, it is, just like our wagon meme. But I'll also say, we didn't come up with it. wagon let's clarify that while we're out here we just made the funny wagon thing with the a in the middle and then coyotes did it too and then that was cool because it looked like an a but then the actual coyotes team stole it and that that's where i draw the line i'll share with lea i'm not

sharing with the coyotes all right uh well well we've determined the answer to that right it's obviously our mean there's no question what was the original question it's like who does this mean will fly more to the fourth quarter so oh oh actually a very interesting question it's a different spin on it It's not which one's better. It's which one does it apply more to? It might apply more to the suns with the fourth quarter being the way it is. Currently, yes. Because as we were just discussing, the Diamondbacks bullpen got considerably better down the stretch.

So, yeah, I think that's, I think that's clear. But back to, back to like the beginning of the 2023 season. When Scott McGuff was closing out games? The bullpen meme got used quite a bit for, for a while there for sure. So, yeah, like when that was at its peak, it might have it might have been you know debaq's bullpen might have been even more even struggling even more than the sun's in the fourth quarter but the suns have been pretty abysmal in the fourth quarter so Ernesto says the fourth quarter in yeah that's exactly how they would have to do it that's it all right what else we got uh mailbag monday question what are we on number six here uh Aaron Hughes asks we need some reliever talk What are some bullpen arms we should keep an eye on? And we do know that the Diamondbacks have talked about still pursuing some more bullpen arms.

We just don't know exactly where they're going to factor in. We also have guys returning. Like you spoke to Corbyn Martin. We know that there's some other guys within the organization that will be back that weren't a part of the playoff run last year. And it also seemed like the Diamondbacks kind of had things figured out with the bullpen. So where would where would these guys kind of factor in with it kind of being a full house right now? Yeah.

Yeah. there, as I think we talked about a couple weeks ago, there really isn't enough room for everyone that on paper you might want to put in the bullpen. Luis Frius is now out of options, which is an interesting situation. You can't serve that. You can't be in that kind of up and down rule this year anymore. That's no longer possible.

I think his case is pretty interesting. Corbyn Martin, as you mentioned, I spoke to him last week. We'll have a story over at go phtonx.com shortly on that. He, it appears that he is healthy going into 2024. told me that he might be a little slow in spring training. He might take things a little bit slower, but it sounds like he should be healthy and ready to go in 2024 after his shoulder injury last year, which on a side note, I watched the replay of that. And it looks like he is in like more pain than I've like ever seen a human being. That was that that was a rough, a rough injury. He said that the pain there

was like way worse than the whole Tommy John surgery situation from a few years prior. But yeah, I mean, he's a guy who was really pitching well for the Diamondbacks last spring, you know, kind of narrowed down his arsenal, his fastball was up to 98 miles an hour looking really good. I think he's an interesting option for them. And then there's also this situation where they have three lefties and they might have to narrow it down to two.

So you've got Andrew Saul, Frank, Joe Mantiply, Kyle Nelson. I'm not sure there's an arrangement where all three of those guys make the team. So that's another thing to be thinking about as spring training gets underway. And Jesse, I don't know. I mean, I think that there's maybe a little overconfidence in our part. We know that some of the guys kind of struggled there. Saul Frank was a guy that we couldn't really explain the success he was having.

But he seemed like he was locked in, dialed in, and then came back down to earth. Almost that thing I was talking about earlier with guys like Drey Jameson and Ryan Nelson, where when they first came up, they just kind of lit the world on fire. but you like you do kind of hold reserve judgment because you're like there's no way this guy that had a seven plus ERA in Reno is pitching like this at a major league level sure you know so yeah it's it's it is a little bit of a wait and see thing of course you know injuries and there's a lot of other factors you're not you're not getting through the season like we saw last year with the same bullpen you started uh to the end and you're also probably not getting through with the same starting

rotation you are so the diamondbacks are going to need arms it's just where are they going to stash them and like how much do they really want to pick up in free agency when they not only have other positional needs still to feel but not a lot of space left on on the roster as far as like who they can send down and and who they can you know part ways with so yeah i think i think i think saul frank's case is is especially interesting because yeah i mean he was so big for the diamond back to the month of september uh and then into the playoffs he was like the go-to high leverage uh left-handed reliever he was the guy pitching in the big spots, but he just really struggled to throw strikes in the playoffs. And, you know, you combine

his regular season numbers with his postseason numbers when he was in the majors. And he had 12 walks compared to eight strikeouts, which isn't exactly the, you know, the ratio that you're looking for. So he still managed to be effective. He didn't allow how a lot of runs, even in the postseason, he didn't allow a lot of runs. But he definitely still has more to prove entering 2024. Not everybody's going to be the godfather, you know, not everybody's going to go out. there just get better in the playoffs you know yeah well i fought at a little more a little more lead time than saw frank saw frank was called up on september 4th i believe and uh found himself pitching in postseason games in very big spots and honestly we've said this about a number of guys in the

bullpen but i still feel like it's true to say without saul frank do the diamondbacks make the playoffs yeah without ryan thiams make the playoffs with the way those two pairs pitch no there's no way. Yeah. Oh, man. Good stuff. All right. Well, I'm still ready to get angry. So Brett Johnson wants to get me a little bit more fired up. Brett Johnson, Brett underscore Johnson 44, asks, why do MLB owners always act broke when it comes to minor leaguers? They just spend their entire day and night doing everything they can to make MLB rosters just to be told they are different from other workers so that they don't get paid a proper wage. And yeah, it's got to be discouraging. I think it's very discouraging. I also think that there is stories you guys have talked about. in the chat today, including the time where they tried to like make David Peralta working at McDonald's up to be some sort of like, oh, man, look how, look how hard this guy worked. Look at, look at the perseverance that he took for him to get here. And it's like, bro, that's a, that's a baseball player that had to work at McDonald's just to make ends meet.

That's not great. That doesn't look great. It's not a great look. And then on top of that, you have the fact that they're actively trying to do this here in Arizona and just in general have tried to, you know, withhold as much pay as possible. Like, I get it. We were just kind of joking before the show started,

looking at the Texas Rangers announcement of their minor league coaching staff. And it was like 32 guys just for their minor league coaching staff. That's not players. That's just 32 guys that they have to pay to develop their young players. And they're probably going to obviously pay those guys way more money than they're paying any of the players. But it's like the minor league, the entire baseball organization, it's deep. And if it's not run properly where you're effectively making, you know, money at all levels.

You're promoting those minor league teams and you're making their ballparks be a draw where people come out and spend their money. It's just, it's never going to be a situation where you make money. And don't get me wrong, you don't buy a sports team to make money while you're running it. You buy a sports team to make money when you sell it. That's essentially what the end goal is. But some people, you know, again, they just love running organizations. they love being a part of sports and uh you know i guess if you love it that much a big part of it is paying your people you know i think i think realistically greed of money just brings out obviously

the worst in people no matter what and we always see it you know but it feels like right now the divide and Craig morgan was saying this earlier between the wealthy and and and the common man is bigger than ever and it feels like that kind of in baseball when you're seeing a guy get paid a billion dollars and here we are talking about trying to squeeze, you know, Arizona lawmakers into not paying minor league players might, you know, minimum wage. Like it's sure. The whole thing just kind of seems crazy to me. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, it's important to note that the haves and have nots issue that exists in the majors exist in the minors as well in a different, in a different fashion, right? You just don't want to get minor league baseball to the point where people who didn't come from,

you know, a wealthy background. or don't have a whole lot of wealth behind them, still have the opportunity to go out and prove themselves in this game, right? Because, you know, it kind of does, if you're not really paying people a fair wage in the minor leagues, it puts people in a situation where, you know, the guys who have enough money saved up or, you know, can get help from elsewhere or whatever,

those guys are just going to have a clear advantage over the guys who maybe didn't grow up with that kind of background or don't have that kind of support behind them. So that's really the biggest thing. for me. You would just hate for a team to miss out on, you know, some great talent because that player just didn't deem it worthwhile, right? It was like, I don't, I don't want to, you know, put my family in a difficult position or whatever, making however much money. Yeah. It's not growing the game. And like growing the game is as important with the fans as it is with trying to get the best athlete

you can to play said game, right? Baseball is a game where, you know, again, the divide is pretty vast when you talk about the haves and the have-nots. But I don't know, man. I just think it's not going to help in the long term for people to want to be a part of this sport when they see that that's how, you know, again, the groundwork for being treated. You never know. Like you go into, you know, you're pursuing your major league baseball career probably thinking that you're going to make it and everything's going to be great. And you're, you know, you're going to be one of the superstars in the sport. I imagine if you think you're just going to be a mediocre ass player that you probably

wouldn't pursue it, right? Like, but, you know, again, the realization there that it takes long to get through that, like you said, you almost have to have a support system. You almost have to have a support structure of a family that can, that, that you don't need money in order for you to get to where you're at. And then, you know, hopefully you can get to a point where you do get these big paydays, where you do become a major leaguer. And then you can, in turn, maybe one day pay your family back for supporting you during

that time, but not a lot of guys make it to that point. Not a lot of guys make it through the struggle of playing in the minor leagues to get to that point. Yeah. And there's not really a risk of guys like, oh, well, if we give them a good wage, then they'll, you know, they won't be motivated or, you know, they'll be, they'll be double A players for 10 years. Yeah. I mean, that's not really a thing because, I mean, they're still only making about 30 grand in double A. And it's not really a thing for players to just play, you know, to stay in a particular organizations on a particular organization's double A team for a long time. Like there's so much competition, you know, to move forward and to elevate in this game that, you know, guys are moving in and out of these roles all the time.

So you'd like to have as many people as possible to have that shot and to not have to decide against it just for financial, financial reasons. Absolutely. Absolutely. Last question of the day comes from our friend Michael Rokickey at Michael underscore Rokickey. And he asks, if you can choose any for P.HNX personalities to do the DeBax Legends race, Who do you choose and who do you think wins? Great question. Outstanding question. Do you want to go first or would you like me to go first?

I'll go first. I'll go first. All right. So there's Gonzo. There's Mount Williams. There's Randy Johnson and Mark Grace, right? We all know this. All right.

So Gonzo I have as Craig Morgan. Wow. Because number one, Craig just got a hip replacement, not that long ago, I believe. That just feels right But also Craig is like Craig is like the legend around here, right? Craig has all this. He's all this clout for me. Craig could have a costume.

Like there could be a costume modeled after Craig running in the legend's race. Yeah, but I mean, Gonzo is kind of like the guy for the Diamondbacks. And Craig in some ways kind of the guy for Ph. and X like he's pretty well established reporter. People know his name. He's in here interviewing like famous people all the time. I agree. So Craig is Gonzo for me.

I feel like Mac would just like she just she she clearly wants in on this there's no question and so I have her as Matt Williams so she gets she gets that opportunity she's Matt Williams this is going to be the slowest race in the history of the legends race I can already tell but it will be competitive and then I have Jacob as Randy Johnson because height enough said that's a bad and then I and then I have Max's Mark grace because everyone knows that Mark grace is the legend who gets made fun of all the time and they used to do the thing where he never wins and max in the phnx office is also the guy who gets made fun of the most uh so it just it just felt like a it just felt like a natural fit you nailed that and see you went with personalities based on the legends man there is no

in this office on the work course i'm calling you a legend man you did not get us any pre ads get out of here there were no pre ads given out uh i don't need you all in my microphone now Well, no. I mean, we, we already ranked like the five black players in Diamondbacks history. So that's already done. But it's funny this guy's over here because when it comes to my legends race, Saul Bookman is the first person I thought of. Now, Jesse went with like connections to the personalities that they were,

went rep, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went with pure competitive chaos is what I went with. So my four are Saul Bookman, Damon, Daniel. who I know for a fact can't wait to beat all of these guys in a foot race. Daniel's winning. We're bringing Sean to pause back. Oh,

okay. Loser Sean? Huh? Luser Sean? Sean needs a win. I just wanted to make sure it was a guy. Can I put it in the Mark Grace costume? Is that,

does that work for you? Sure. All right. Perfect. So he loses? He will probably, yeah, if he loses,

he will immediately leave the field. Nobody will be allowed to speak to him. And that'll be the end of it. I'll put, I'll put, uh, Saul in Randy Johnson. I'm going to put,

uh, Danielle and Luis Gonzalez. And then Damon, uh, you can be, uh, Matt Williams. Damn.

Who, who wins? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Danielle wins. Danielle wins. Yeah,

there's no question. Yeah. Daniel's winning. Danielle beat Corby and a foot raise. So, underestimate the dirty. Yeah, that is true.

Saul will trip all three of these people. I unapologetically. It's not even going to be. Oh, and now we got ESPO back here. He's mad. Do you want to be, do you want to be Mark Grace

Espo? You can be Baxter. He's familiar with mascots that don't make any sense for the team. So yeah, we can do that. That's a done deal. Well, now I need to see that Legends race and maybe compete. Can I be in one? I want to see if we can get.

We have some connections. Maybe make that happen. That's going to be electric. I have no desire to do it. But I would really enjoy watching you. The pop from the crowd when you took the head off and it was Jesse Friedman under there would be undeniable. If it ever happened, no one would ever find out about it. It would happen and people, people might, people watching this show might have been at the ballpark and seen it happen.

He would deny it until the day he died. Yeah, he would never tell you if it was. So much like Mike Hazen with like free agents that you missed out on, you're never going to know if he actually missed out on them because he's never going to tell you. So that's how that works. But we thank you guys for stopping by. Of course, we appreciate your time. You can follow us on Twitter. I'm at Kapp underscore K-Man with a K.

This maniac next to me is at Jesse N. Friedman. Of course, Damon is the people's producer. You can get him at Damon Dog. That's D-A-W-G. We are Damon's dogs. Bark, bark. Of course, our show is at P-HNX underscore D-Backs, but all roads do lead to at P-H-N-X underscore sports on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

We thank you guys so much for stopping by. We'll be back tomorrow at 1 p.m. So make sure to join us then. And in the meantime, we appreciate you. Have a fun day. And remember, kids, baseball is fun. It's so much more fun when you pay minor leaguers a decent salary.