PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Is Trading Ketel Marte the DUMBEST Move D-backs Could Make This Offseason?

Episode Date: October 17, 2025

JOIN THE SUPPORTERS CLUB ➡️ https://tinyurl.com/yc6km2r4The Arizona Diamondbacks face some tough decisions with their 2026 roster and limited budget, and one of the biggest questions is whether trading Ketel Marte could help—or haunt—them. Would moving their star second baseman bring back the kind of return that puts the team back on track, or would it be another deal the D-backs come to regret? Jack Sommers from Snakes Territory joins the show on his birthday to break down what a Marte trade could look like and whether it’s worth exploring. Plus, Max Scherzer’s chaos continues as the Blue Jays even up the ALCS with our beloved Sea-Backs. Can Seattle bounce back at home, or is their Etsy Witch magic running out?An ALLCITY Network ProductionSUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtubeALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsportsMERCH https://store.allcitynetwork.com/collections/phnx-lockerALLCITY Network, Inc. aka PHNX and PHNX Sports is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by the City of PhoenixPHNX Events: Get your tickets to PHNX events and takeovers here: https://gophnx.com/events/ALLCITY — including us here at PHNX — is teaming up with Big Brothers Big Sisters of America for an exciting three-year partnership. To learn more, visit https://www.bbbs.org/allcity/APS:  Find instant rebates, discounts and special offers on smart thermostats, energy-efficient appliances and more at https://marketplace.aps.com/default/heating-cooling/smart-thermostatsBranded Bills: Use code BBPHNX at https://www.brandedbills.com/ for 15% off your first order!Zen Leaf: Visit our friends at Zen Leaf (http://zen-leaf.store/phnx) for 50% off using promo code ZENPHNXChicken N’ Pickle: Family friendly fun awaits! Visit chickennpickle.com to plan your visit today!Access Auto Insurance Agency of Arizona, LLC (Access Auto) is a renowned agency offering personal and commercial auto insurance options to Arizona residents. If you’re on the hunt for a new policy, call Access Auto today at 1-480-400-0546 or get a free insurance quote by visiting our website www.access-insurance.com.Visit https://www.macu.com/accounts/checking/mystyle-checking?cid=ea-PHNX-AZ-mystyleAugust2025-checking to learn more about their MyStyle Checking Accounts!bet365: https://www.bet365.com/hub/en-us/app-hero-banner-1?utm_source=affiliate&utm_campaign=usapp&utm_medium=affiliate&affiliate=365_03485317 Use the code PHNX365 to sign up, deposit $10 and bet $5 to get $150 in bonus bets!Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and physically located in AZ.  If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-NEXT-STEP, text NEXTSTEP to 53342 or visit https://problemgambling.az.gov/Branded Bills: Use code BBPHNX at https://www.brandedbills.com/ for 20% off your first order!Gametime: Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply.Shady Rays: Head to https://shadyrays.com and use code: PHNX for 35% off polarized sunglasses. Try for yourself the shades rated 5 stars by over 300,000 people.Circle K: Join Inner Circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today! Head to https://www.circlek.com/store-locator to find Circle Ks near you!Monarch Money: Use Monarch Money to get control of your overall finances with 50% off your first year at https://www.monarchmoney.com/phnxWhen you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Are the Arizona Diamondbacks actually contemplating trading Cotel Marte? And would it be their only way to get out of the hold their end for 2026? We got our guy, Jack Summers, from Snake's Territory, joining us today to talk about it. And we're going to do that in 30 seconds. Don't you go anywhere? Come into another edition of the PHNXDbacks podcast, Lodi Ok, presented by our friends at Circle K. Happy Friday to you all. It is I, your mayor of PHNX, occasionally known as Derek Montia.

and yes, this is a happy Friday. I don't know, maybe it's not. Baseball continues to make me sad, even though our team is not in it. Our adopted team is now on their heels. The damn Dodgers are one game away from the World Series. And I hate all of it. It's the reason why the guy on the ones and twos today

has given up completely watching baseball together. He's moved on to football season and even basketball season. It's the one, the only Damon dog. Damon, thoughts on the postseason? I don't even know what's happening, Derek. You might need to fill me in. know, I'll fill you in, but don't worry about that. That's what, that's what this show is here for. For those of you that have completely stopped paying attention to baseball altogether,

we are here here to get you updated, and we are also here to ponder why the Diamondbacks would even consider trading Cotell Marte, and we're going to do that with the help of our guide Jack Summers. Great to have you guys here, especially El Gaiio and Killer Rex. Great to see you guys. Of course, this show is brought to you by our friends at Bet365 and game time. Make sure to use that Bet365 app today and download it. Use our code of PHNX 365 when you do. Get yourself some bonus bets for signing up. And over at game time, of course, use our code of PHNX.

You'll get yourself $20 off last minute ticket purchases that are already low. Get your tickets for Burke Kreisher tonight. He's out there in Glendale. We will be out there. So at one point tonight, Burke Kreisher is going to pour alcohol into my mouth. I may or may not be shirtless when that happens. So, of course, you got to make sure to join us out there for that.

And, of course, I'm not getting paid any money for that. This is just an endorsement of me having a great Friday night. Right now the Mariners, they're not having a great time. Mariners are in trouble, you guys, are adopted Seabacks, aka the Sea Snakes, lose game four to the Blue Jays, 8 to 2. I wish these games were a little bit closer, even if the Mariners were losing. I'm draped in full Mariners garb today. This isn't really a Mariners hat, nor is specifically a Mariners shirt,

but it's as close as I could get to it in my wardrobe to help turn the guys' season. around here because it really does feel like they are on their heels right now. Max Scherzer delivered a vintage performance last night and not just that, but he also was a vintage Madman on the mound once again.

He went five and two-thirds innings, allowing two runs on three hits. He did issue four walks. He struck out five batterers, so he looked like Max Scherzer of old. Notably, Scherzer

The news on Scherzer today going around is his crazy person moment that he had last night. He insisted on staying in the game during a mountain visit in the fifth inning, showcasing, if you want to call it, his competitive spirit here, Damon. That's what you see coming out of his face right there is his competitive spirit. He did not want to come out of the game in the fifth inning. Toronto Blue Jays manager John Schneider, seen there in the hoodie, was approaching Snyder. or approaching Scherzer with two outs and one on there in the fifth inning. The Blue Jays at the time had a five to one lead.

And apparently, according to his post-game press conference, Schneider told the reporters that he tells his starters if he walks out to the mound, you're done. It's a wrap for you. You're coming out of the game. But if he does a little slight jog, it means he's giving you as a pitcher extra time to talk him out of it once he gets out there to the mound, right? So apparently he started walking out to the mound to signal to Max Scherzer that his night was over, in which Max Scherzler exclaimed, no!

That was his response to seeing his manager come out in this very important playoff game. And then when he yelled no at John Schneider, who was walking out to the mound, Schneider proceeded to jog out to the mound because he realized that this was about to be the classic Mad Max altercation that he has been waiting all season for. And he did go on afterwards to say that he's been eager for such an exchange since their first Zoom call during free agency. But I know I'm not allowed to curse on this show, so I'll do my best to censor this. But he did say, before he got there, he said, I'm forking good.

And then I said, are you sure? Are you sure? and he said, yeah, and I went, you better fork and execute then. And then he said, I forking will. So there was a lot of F words being exchanged back and forth there. Excuse me, credit to the good place for giving me that one. Schneider then punched Scherzer in the stomach and said, go get it. Like, that is the most electric sounding thing from a movie I've ever heard my life,

but it actually occurred in game four of the ALCS. So that's what happened there. Andres Jimenez had a very funny response to this as well. He said that most of the time when they have a mound visit, he comes out to the mound. But when he saw Max yelling at Schneider, he just turned around and went back and left it alone, which was a pretty smart move.

He also contributed significantly to the win, hitting a two-run homer in the third inning and then adding a two-run RBI in the eighth inning. He finished the game with four RBIs. And once again, the Blue Jays, bottom of the lineup guys have been doing it to the Mariners. That's the most frustrating part about this loss. Also, again, like I said, that both of these losses in Seattle have been very one-sided. Vladimir Guerrero hit his fifth postseason home run. It was a solo shot in the seventh inning.

That extended the Blue Jays lead even further. Meanwhile, on the Mariner's side, we can spy on our exes because our exes were the only ones getting it done for this team. Gino Suarez had an RBI single for the Mariners, which was the only other run in this game, besides Josh Naylor's solo home run, which was his second of the postseason. Not to mention that, but Josh Naylor was three for three in the game with that home run. Gino Suarez won for four with an RBI. Again, Gino still continues to struggle, but he has been contributing at times. You couldn't say the same for the Mariners 1 through 4 hitters in yesterday's game. O for 13 with four walks and six strikeouts.

And that is Cal Raleigh. That is Randy a Roserina. That is Julio Rodriguez. And that is Jorge Polanco. So not a great day for those guys. And if the Mariners have any hope of turning things around, because it really does feel like this entire series just turned on its head with this loss. They need those guys to step up, especially Cal Rally, right?

Cal Rally has been a big reason why the Mariners are even in this spot. He has been huge during the playoffs up to this point. And Ernesto might absolutely be correct. The extra innings game finally came back to bite them. It really does feel like right now at this point, this team is on their heels. And again, it feels like they're exhausted. They look exhausted out there. They look frustrated and Toronto meanwhile seems like they're only getting stronger as the series goes on. So don't know what's what tonight's game holds. This office might be a mess with our guys, Zach and Shane, both Mariners fans. As you know, we are also Mariners fans here on this podcast.

Might be? Did I say might be? Yeah, this office is going to be a mess. Oh, this office. Straight up. I need to throw the might be out there because we can't conclude that the Mariners are going to lose, right? The Blue Jays will start Kevin Gossman while the Mariners will. You think that these guys are going to be reasonable, even if it's like a tie game, Derek?

I mean, they're going to strike out, see one strike out and be like, it's over. This game and Shane's going to be miserable. Shane is so upset with me, Damon. Shane won't even look at me because of what we did to him and this team on, on what was it, Tuesday's show or Wednesday. I'm sorry. No, excuse me. It was Wednesday's show when Damon was off. And I get it.

Shane came in here. Shane was being all melancholy. I was trying to hype him up, tell him he had nothing to worry about the series. was going back to Seattle. He had everything to worry about. He was right and he knew it. And I don't know why. I encouraged him in any way, shape, or form to think positively about his team that has never made it to the World Series.

And he's right to be mad at me, but it's going to be very difficult for us to work together for the next four months, I think, if the Mariners get bounced here. So I really need them to, you know, come back. I need them to get into the world. I need them to at least be our face team. I mean, I can root for the Blue Jays in the World Series. It doesn't matter who wins this series. They're the baby face in the championship game against whoever wins, and we know who's going to win. It's the Dodgers.

They're now one game away from being in the World Series. They beat the Brewers 3 to 1. This time, their bullpen was inexplicably good and held strong against the Brewers. They're late. And Damon, there was a moment in yesterday's game where I knew this series was over, despite the fact that yesterday's game wasn't over yet. and despite the fact that there was still another game to be played and won by the Dodgers in order for the series to be over.

And that's when Jackson Churio swung at a pitch and then looked like he cramped up in his hamstring, but he's had some hamstring issues. And he proceeded for about five minutes to hobble around and try to get his leg to straighten out. It looked like he could not bend his knee or unbend his knee to the point where they had to take their star out of the game and his entire, you know, future with this. postseason is still up in jeopardy. There's still some uncertainty about his health, given that hamstring issue. But the minute I watched him hobble down those stairs into the dugout and be replaced, I was like, this series is a wrap. It's a wrap. It's a wrap. And of course, it felt like

that took the life, the energy out of the brewers. And of course, it's already been a difficult battle here because the Dodgers have just been lying on dominant pitching. Their offense has not been stellar has not been outstanding but they haven't needed it considering that all of these games are close and their pitchers have been doing such an incredible job. They have Otani going on the mound in game four against what will

appears to be Jose Cantana on the mound though he hasn't made a start since a calf injury. So, don't know how that's going to play out for the brewers. Hope that Pat Murphy still has some magic left or do we, Damon? Do we even, I mean, this is this, look, we've both

gotten into some hot water with Dodgers fans on Twitter based on some tweets we had. So we no longer care. We're firmly on this side and we're against them and that's how this is all played out. And I don't think there was ever a time where it wasn't that despite Damon making some bold accusations against me that I may or may not have deserved. But Damon, when it really does come to this bullpen or not this bullpen, this Dodgers team, it's a foregone conclusion that they're advancing at this point to the World Series.

There's no way I foresee the Brewers. getting themselves out of it. So would we prefer that the Brewers fight back and at least extend this to maybe six games instead of just four getting swept? Or do we want the Dodgers just to do it? It reminds me of like, you know, the football situation where, you know,

you got a team scoring late and you have to make that decision. Do you just let the running back go in because you know they're going to get into the end zone so that you have more time to try to come down and come back? It's like one of those. Do we want the Dodgers to have a layoff and do we want them to maybe not, you know, maybe be on a role as they go here against whoever wins in the ALCS? Or would we prefer that the brewers, you know, made them at least work a little bit for this?

It's classic rest versus rust debate, you know, in playoffs. And, you know, I think it's different for every team. Right. And you never really truly know until you watch it unfold in front of you. So this is complete speculation. We could sound like idiots. but personally, I think that playing consistent baseball, you know, is probably the way that you want to do it in this sport in particular. Like, I think hockey is also a sport that you could maybe say is similar in the way that not the best team doesn't always win.

You know, the most talented team doesn't always win in baseball and hockey. Like, it feels like those sports are very momentum driven in the postseason. And so if you lose that momentum, if it gets halted a little bit, who's to say that that doesn't kind of do. just throw you off your groove slightly, right? Yeah. So I personally, I think that maybe getting this series over with as fast as possible from a Dodger hater perspective of which I believe that I lead the army, you are maybe my first lieutenant.

Yes. Hand me a torch. Yeah. And I believe, you know, you got promoted after a viral tweet of your own. And that's how we, that's how we, you know, do ranks in this army is, is social media posts. But yeah, I think that as a leader of Dodger-Hater Nation, we definitely want this series to end as fast as possible. And then hopefully whatever team has the momentum of the ALCS just rolls them in the next in the World Series. There is that.

The one thing I can think, though, is don't the Dodgers are getting some phenomenal pitching. And like I said, yesterday, credit to their bullpen. They held strong. They came into a game where Tyler Glass and I was still pitching very well, but, you know, didn't give them what. got out of Blake Snell and Yamamoto. The bullpen actually had some work to do, came out of the inning before the end of the sixth. And like I said, the bullpen did a great job.

But I feel like looking at the Dodgers, they look like a tired team. I feel like Otani with the way he's struggling in the postseason is this long season. Yeah, stinking up to join. Career under 200 hitter in the postseason, Derek. Did you know this? He has not been good.

He has not been good. That's the go. That's the goat. I know. Well, I can't argue with you. on that. I mean, for sure. But what it feels, what it feels like is, is that some rest, some days off, would actually be good for that team. Like you said, sometimes it varies by team, you know, from team to team, right? So like, I would love to see the brewers at least try to, you know,

try to not get steamrolled here, try their best, but. Show some damn pride. Yeah. I'm, I'm still very doubtful of that. I do feel like with Otani on the mountain today, we're going to see, you know, him try to make up for his lack of offense and I wouldn't be surprised to see him have an incredible day out there. Yeah, I think he owes them that after how horrible he's been offensively. But also, like, can you just, I mean, could you imagine being Bryce Terrang right now, Derek? I still can't, no. Like, dude, you're down three, yo. You're looking at a sweep straight in the eyes.

You could have been up one-oh. You could have changed the entire series potential by just letting a single pitch hit you. I wonder, I wonder if both. Brock still thinks that that's an egregious opinion that he should have got hit by that pitch and wore it. Doesn't he covers football. I mean, I would think that. He played college baseball.

So I, he's a knowledgeable guy. And I think he would be okay with guys taking one for the team. Yeah, totally. He seriously, he's like, he's like, I hate the kid that,

you know, just tries to wear it when it goes inside. Buddy, the World Series is on the line right now. This is a game 73 of the regular season. Get out of here. I'm not hearing it. I'm not hearing it.

Seriously. If it was the regular season, I get it. You jump out of the way, but the stakes are a little bit higher. And like, I don't think it's, I don't think it's crazy to say Bryce Turing like ended the series before it even started. Yeah. Like how deflating is that to jump out of the way of that when you could have tied it. Potentially the next guy wins the game for you, right? At home. And then, you know, the next pitch, he's swinging at something that's twice as tall as him. Yeah. Like it was an embarrassing swing to strike out as well. I honestly think that it was instinct and then shame a little bit in the moment, right? Like trying to be a hero on the very next pitch and just swinging at whatever. Oh, I think I bet you after he jumped out of the way, he was like, oh my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, that was it. That would have tied the game. And I'm about to strike out.

His next thought was I'm about to strike out on this next pitch. Right. So anyway, appreciate all of you guys being here in the chat and all of the Dodger hate. We'll see what happens today. But we're going to take a quick break on the other side of the. break we were going to get into it should the Arizona Diamondbacks consider trading Cotel Marte what would a return look like and would it be one of the full most foolish moves this organization had ever made we're going to talk about

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The O'Gambly, I mean, I feel like, obviously, it's funny. You're clearly trying to force it, but I am going to start calling him Parlay O'Tani. Okay. Like, that is a thing that I'm going to do moving forward. That's totally something that you can embrace. But I'm going to embrace this man. I mean that both by having him on the show, and I'm literally going to physically. embrace them next time I see him, but it is the one the only Jack Summers from Snake's

territory and also Sports Illustrated, Jack. Thank you for being here and let me first start off by saying, happy birthday to you, sir. Appreciate you giving time to me on this day of your birth. I do not deserve that, but thank you and I'm thrilled to be chatting with you here. Well, my wife's inside. She started cooking this morning. It's the Taiwanese-style beef noodle soup. Sounds a lot. Which is just like the best thing ever. I know. The son's coming over for that. I didn't get the invite. I feel fine. That's fine. But just save me a little bit. That's all I ask. But yeah, man, I know that, of course, you are a big family guy. You are big about, you know, I love always seeing your pictures from your trips and everything. And again, this conversation, I think we're having hurts Diamondbacks fans a little bit because if there's one guy that definitely feels like he's part of our family, it's Ketel Marte. But as you guys talked about on your show this week, Trading Catelle-Marté has become, I mean, it's one of those things where there's smoke, there's got to be fire. And it feels like this isn't just rumors.

This is something that the Diamondbacks are sincerely considering. And, I mean, again, Mike Hazen said he's taking phone calls on everybody, but there are some reasons why trading Cotel-Marte actually does make sense. Yeah. Well, there certainly is. I mean, there's always a two-size to every coin. A lot of people want to know, like, where is this coming from? And it goes back to what happened over the summer. And, you know, the incident over taking the time off at the All-Star break.

For sure. You know, and I just kind of want to clarify one thing up front. I'm not advocating trading Cattel Marte. Sure. And I'm not banging on the guy for what happened over the summer. We just have to report what happened, what we see and what we hear. We're in a similar position. and I think that we both agree on that.

Like, again, there are times, though, where as an organization, right, and this is why we're discussing it, you kind of have to make these tough decisions, and there is at least a track record in the past from some teams where they traded a star player away that felt like it was a devastating trade at the time, and yet that move overall improved not only the franchise but helped the future, you know, kind of get,

back on track a little bit. And I think that, you know, it's hard to not discuss this thing with Catell and not bring up that incident, the article that came out, the reaction to that article, you know, to that news that Cotel had missed time and that his teammates were not happy with him over it or some of his teammates weren't. But again, it becomes a thing of commitment. It becomes a thing of, I think, you know, also quite frankly, this might sound a little callous, but like a stock selling when a player might be at their peak as far as value is concerned

and trying at that time to get the most in return for them instead of, you know, waiting potentially for them to start to regress overall, right? And I'm not suggesting Cotel Marta is going to do that. But there are some things here that you, you know, that you can evaluate as far as an entire organization is concerned and see where Cattel being traded, depending on the return, could help a lot of other pieces be fixed. And, you know, unfortunately, it could tell's overall performance doesn't really feel like it would be missed by a lot, considering the pieces that they might be able to get in return. Well, you know, it's very hard to speculate at this particular moment, what kind of return they can get.

I think we just need to backtrack a little bit, though. You know, the Diamondbacks were pissed off. they were upset and they were angry when Kattel without telling them jumped on a flight from Atlanta right after he left the All-Star game and went to the Dominican Republic. That was his plan. He didn't show up to go get on the plane with his teammates to rejoin the team. In his mind, you know, supposedly what he told us later was that he was planning to get back by Friday. But, you know, I did some investigating. And I mean, let's be honest here. You're flying from Atlanta at 10 o'clock at night if you're jumping on a charter, direct nonstop, down in the Dominican Republic.

You're looking at a five, six hour flight. You know, and then so what's he getting in like four or five in a morning on Thursday? And then to be able to rejoin the team in time for pregame workouts on Friday, he'd have to leave in the middle of the night, Thursday night. So what he's going down in there for like less than 24 hours? No, that never washed. And yes, the report that his house was, you know, broken into and all that, that honestly, it's not a reason for him to have made the decision to get on the plane in the first place. So when we spoke to him about that, I kind of pressed him on these logistics.

And this was, you know, we were in a clubhouse and they told us normally they kick us out within an hour of when the clubhouse opens. And they booted it. This time they didn't boot us on the clubhouse. and PR said, stick around, stay here in the clubhouse. And then Mike Hazen walked through and other people walked through and we waited 45 minutes. And then Ketel finally came out and spoke to us. And when I pressed him on the logistics, he said, yeah, I'm sorry. I screwed up, you know, basically is what he said.

So what Bob Nightingale reported afterwards, because he was around that day. And a lot of people don't realize Bob Nightingale's home base is right here in Arizona. And he's in that press box for more than half the Diamondbacks game. We see Bob there all the time. You know, and he was there in the clubhouse. And he was, you know, when Marte actually returned from the Dominican. And he spoke to people, and they were upset. They were visibly angry and upset over the whole situation.

And so Bob wrote his article, like the phone lines are going to be open. Now, the reason I'm diving into this stuff is because we have to remember that there are human beings involved here. that are running these organizations. And this part is speculation. This part isn't reporting. But I believe that when they kind of expressed that anger to Bob and led Bob to write that story that, yeah, phone lines are going to be open. It's a worst kept secret.

They're going to try to trade them, et cetera, et cetera. I think that was emotion speaking. I think they were just pissed. And I believe that cooler heads prevailed later. Yeah. And they're backing down off the ledge because when you, analyze this and this is what you have me on for but when you analyze this it just doesn't really it's it's really a now or never situation like if they want to trade them they actually have to do

it now he's got 10 and 5 rights he can refuse to trade early next season the contract i speculated by the way that that maybe and again this was because this situation had grown from could tell being missing time because his house has gotten burglarized and like receiving like flack about that right but the flack wasn't because he had missed time and was dealing with the burglary and was like talking to police and cleaning things up at his house like you said he wasn't even in arizona right so when those facts came out and those details came out i i mean i i definitely changed my position on this but it did feel like a guy that was you know, again, being kind of villainized here in this situation over his home being burglarized,

I felt like those 10 and 5 rights were kind of a reason that this organization would want to start to move, you know, the ball in the direction of trading him. And if you want the fan base to be okay with that, because the reaction from the fan base is going to be, you know, tremendously negative about trading someone like a. Catelle. You get the ball rolling by, you know, making accusations that he wasn't, you know, here in town and he missed games because he was in the Dominican and his teammates are mad at him and blah, blah, blah, when maybe some of that stuff isn't true. But I feel like what you're saying is accurate. And it's what I felt like this whole time. Like even though things were said,

those things even by his teammates weren't like, I'm sick of playing with Cattel. He's the worst. I don't want him on my team. It was more of anger in the moment. as you would be at like a coworker who called off for a day and, you know, missed a day and caused everybody on Wednesday to have to like shuffle around and fill space and like we would around here if someone missed time, right? Like if one of our producers was out, that would put a strain on the rest of the group, right? So you might be upset that that happened one day, but you kind of get over it fairly quickly, especially when the guy is Cattel Marte and he's one of the best part of the base. Well, there's a little bit more at stake here, though. No, absolutely. I'm just trying to use that as a dumb metaphor that can kind of, you know, be a little bit relatable. But yeah, like you, you can be mad at someone temporarily based on something that they did. But it doesn't necessarily mean that that impacts your feelings about wanting them as a teammate, wanting them in your clubhouse and wanting to play with them on the field. Right. Like so yeah, like I agree with you. And I do feel like the reaction there was, you know, again, just in the moment, you know. Yeah. So, you know, and again, I didn't want to really. re-litigate that whole part, but I do feel it's relevant to understanding the parameters of what

kind of trade they could actually make. Because let's be honest, that whole incident and that whole reputation hurts his trade value. But that aside, when I dig into the numbers, as I often do, you know, look, we can look at his cumulative performance. I made a weighted average, you know, 4.8 war was what his last four seasons weighted average came out to. So that's like your platform piece, you know, and I came up with projections of four, then 3.3, then 2.5, and then 1.8 war. Total is like 12.2. All right.

Fan graphs, for their sake, they came up with a 14.2 war projection over, you know, the next remaining years of his contract. But here's the thing. The next two years are the cheap years. Yeah. You know, 12 and 15 million. Right. And then after that, it's 20, 22, 22. It's $64 million over the last three years.

Right when he's hitting ages 34, 5, and 6. So for the sake of, you know, expected performance versus what they got to pay him, he's valuable now in the next two years, probably the last two years, not so. much. And then we just mentioned the 10 and 5 rights. Right. So those two factors combine, the way the contract is backloaded and the way that the 10 and five rights, no trade rights work out to be, means that if they're going to make a move, kind of now's the time. Right. If they don't do it now, that's it. The windows probably passed unless they end up being a lot more difficult. You know, his value is going to be lower and he can block the

trade because of those tenant rights, right? So, but I mean, basically these are all the reasons why I think could tell Marte being traded will continue to be a rumor that floats out there and everything like that. But with all of that being said, Jack, this still to me feels like the dumbest conversation to ever be having and not because it's with you and not because it's actually something that could happen. It feels like the dumbest conversation because of how good Cotel Marte has been, what a superstar he is for this team. How, like, despite this one weekend, this one incident, as like even I agree with Killer Rex, like there are people that receive far more, or far less criticism, it feels like, for more

serious, you know, I guess, things that they've done, you know, but, you know, you have Cotel Marte missing this, you know, weekend series that the Diamondbacks didn't even lose and it feels like, you know, it's blown up into him being like the worst teammate and the worst person in the world, at least to some people, right? And I don't really think that's the case. I don't think that's how it's viewed internally. And I don't think, like, again, that trading Cotel Marte makes any damn sense because this guy has just been so good for this team. And, I mean, I get what you're saying, though, as far as, like, regression is concerned and getting older, like, all of that. is a factor, right? But, you know, again, if the Diamondbacks are going to have, I just feel like

it's going to be that Goldschmidt trade all over again, where even though Cotel Marta is the age that he is now, trading him would then make us sit there and watch him have like his inexplicably best seasons somewhere else with another team where he just thrives and becomes, you know, an MVP of the league. Well, look, first of all, so speaking of our, good friend Killer Rex. Sorry, dude, you're wrong. I don't want him gone. That's complete misconstrued of what I'm saying.

Wild accusations at us all the time. You'll have to ignore him. But at the same time, no. I mean, that's what it feels like, though. I think that's how some fans do feel about the way that we discuss somebody like this. Because, again, there's other superstars on other teams. You know, like, I know, I know I'm sure at some point our PHNX Sun show had to speculate if the sun should trade down.

Kevin Booker or consider trading David Booker or whatever, right? But like, there are guys that feel like, what's that? You got to analyze it. You got to. And you have no choice. Doing due diligence and analyzing it isn't the same as wanting somebody gone. Look, what I've said all along is I think it's almost impossible to get the proper return for Ketel.

That's, that's the thing. I mean, if they're looking to win in 2026, how are you going to make this team better by trading arguably your best thing? Right. And I misspoke earlier, Jack. I did say like, oh, hey, Cattel's, you know, what Catell does, his performance wouldn't be missed by this team. I didn't mean that. I just meant that if the return is significant enough, I think offensively and defensively, they could recover from Cotel Marte not being on this team.

But it would involve the trade being huge, the return being huge. And it would want, it would need to be like elite starting pitching, I almost feel like, which, I don't know if the Diamondbacks could get a deal done for an elite starting pitcher that would involve just trading another team Cotel Marte for him, right? Like that value for that team might, Cotel Marte might not be high enough for them to part ways with what we or anyone else would consider an elite starting pitcher. Yeah, I mean, especially one with control. I mean, if you're talking about trading Cattel for one year of Tarek Scouble, I mean, maybe that helps you in 2026. maybe school is more valuable than Kutel in 26, but that he's gone, right? You know, he's a free agent.

He's gone. And if you bring him home, Jack, bring him home. We extend him. He's here forever. That's what we do. Yeah, right. If you're talking about trying to trade Kutel for, you know, a frontline starting pitcher with three years of control, which I would think would be the minimum starting point for

anybody to feel satisfied with such a trade. Yes. That's a really difficult thing to pull off. I mean, what team is going to give up a frontline starting point? picture with three years of control if they're trying to win. Right. And obviously, only a team that's trying to win would want Cattle Marte. A rebuilding team isn't going to try to bring them in.

So the fits just, none of it makes sense. And that's what has been my vantage point on this, from the beginning of the end of last year and the beginning of this past season and beginning of off season. It just doesn't make any sense to trade him because you're not going to be able to accomplish your goals. The only way, honestly, the only justification for trading Marte is if you're not trying to win in 26 and you're trying to collect a large package of players that can help you down the road once they get past the 2027 lockout. And I was, you know, if the debacks are interested in doing that, guess what? They're never going to admit it. They're never going to tell us that that's what they're doing.

Right. Well, and I was also going to say, or I was going to ask you about this, we've kind of speculated here that not to say that Mike Hazen would be fired after 2026, not to say the Diamondbacks wouldn't bring Tori Lavolo back after 2026, but based on the way things are looking right now, it feels like next year is very much a make or break season. And if this team hovers around mediocrity or has a losing season where they don't really aren't even in it all year long based on how. how far they're out of it from the get-go, then this very well could be the last season we have Mike Hazen as the GM and Tori Lavallo as the manager. I don't love that idea. I don't, especially Hazen. I think Hazen has been a very good GM for this team,

but with the lockout pending in 2027 and changes kind of looming and looking like they need to be made, there's a good chance that this front office or this organization decides that they want to kind of clean house a little bit and go in a different direction, after all of that is figured out in 2027. So I feel like that's another part of this equation

overall, right? Like, is Mike Hazen going to make moves that improved this team in 28 and 29? Or is he going to be solely focused on 2026 and trying his best to ensure this team is

good for what could be the last hurrah between him, Tori, and the D-backs? I think if you ask Mike Hayes in, he absolutely will tell you that he's going to do whatever it's necessary to try to win in 2026 without mortgaging the future. But, you know, at this point in time, when you're looking at a team with a reduced payroll coming, how much they're reducing, we don't know, but they keep telling us they're cutting it. So they're cutting it. Derek told us and Ken Kendrick told us. So clearly they're cutting it. So the only way to improve this roster is via trade. So

you know, if you're Mike Hazen, at this point, you know, you have limited options to upgrade the roster. So the only way to do it is through trade. Now, are you trading off the major league roster? You're trading prospects, combination of both. You know, it's kind of messy, right? It's a pretty messy situation. But if you're trading off the major league roster, you do have to look at like, where do I have my depth? Where do I have, you know, the opportunity to replace a player I'm trading off the major league roster?

And again, you kind of circle back to me, you know, You do have Lawler if he ever gets it together. You have guys like Tommy Troy coming along. I can play second base. Right. You know, there's other players in the system coming up. But again, those guys are all going to need a couple more years before they're above average major leaguers. Correct.

If they ever get there. Like you can't expect a rookie to come in and be that guy. No. So I don't know. I mean, for me personally, I don't think it happens. I don't think they do trade them. I think that part of the over the top. not, you know, they're going to trade Cotele-Marté surety that came out of some of those articles.

I think that was born out of an emotional reaction that since, you know, faced reality. And the reality is, is you move Cotel-Morté, you're not likely to improve your 20-26 chances. I couldn't agree with you more, Jack, and I appreciate you taking some time on your birthday to join us. Thank you so much for your time. Make sure to follow Jack over at Snake's Territory with our guy, Jesse Friedman. you can get their podcast wherever you get this one and follow jack at shoe wizard it's shoe wizard right shoe wizard there it is he is the shoe wizard well thank you sir appreciate you happy birthday again and enjoy that suit thank you i will i love it jack thank you appreciate your brother steaks and beers on

me next time i see you for sure well uh we're going to take a quick break and on the other side of this break we are going to talk a little bit more about kattel marty and uh once again be fall guys give you some updates from yesterday's Arizona Fall League game. Don't you guys go anywhere. You're watching the PHNX Diamondback Show. Unless, of course, that place you're going is to the rally house, which is your go-to spot for all of your favorite

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Terms and conditions apply at participating locations. Visit CircleK.com for details. I knew it was inevitable that we were going to say negative things about Citell Marte while we discussed that. and I just want to stand my, to affirm my position here. Gatel Marte is my favorite player on the Arizona Diamondbacks. Geraldo Pardomo is Damon's favorite player on the Arizona Diamondbacks. Correct. And these two are delightful to watch together,

and they've been delightful to see them come up on this team. I think the one trait that both of those guys share in common is that neither player were highly regarded as a young infielder, and they both somehow worked hard. enough to become two of the best players in baseball. And Catelle Marte is absolutely that. He is a legitimate bat with power. He has on base skills.

He has a track record of high performance. As our guy, Killarex talked about, he got a hit in every one of the Diamondbacks postseason games during that 2023 run. He set a major league record for the longest consecutive hit streak in postseason history. And he's under contract the long term with that six-year extension. with guaranteed money. Just because of, you know, again, the contract and his trade value, as Jack, you know, suggested there kind of depressing by his age and future decline.

I mean, there's a lot that a future team would have to consider in even trading for Cotel. So it goes to a point of would the return be significant enough for him? Cattel is a popular player here. Like I said, he is my favorite player. Lenny in the chat says if we trade could tell I'm not watching baseball no more. I know watch baseball no more after that either. I am not in the mood to watch this team if they trade could tell. You know, the reports of internal friction seem to definitely be over exaggerated for sure.

And, you know, again, the optics here aren't good. Not only are the optics not good for fans, but I don't know, the optics of extending a player and then turning around and trading him kind of sucks. Like he extended, he signed an extension to be here in Arizona, as he has expressed many times. He loves it here. He wants to play here. He is from Phoenix, as he will tell you. And I appreciate that about him.

I appreciate the way he has embraced the city. And I appreciate what he has become for this team. And more importantly, like, again, the, the, that's just, what does it say to future players, right? Like, you want to play for an organization that wants to invest in. you long term and want you to be here long term. That's what the Diamondbacks have expressed to Cotel this entire time with these extensions and with keeping him here. And in turn, Cotell has definitely given this team a discount in those extensions and it has somehow worked out all the way around, right? Jack's not wrong about, you know, his contract going up in the future.

That's part of the price you pay for extending a player is kind of securing their future for them and giving them that money at a point in their career where they might not be worth the amount of money that you're paying them right now. This was specifically structured in the concept that, you know, having, Cotel taking less now helps the team have more money to build and, and spend and build this team around him, right? So there's a lot of things that are pretty ugly

about the idea of trading Cotel after a contract extension like that. But again, the message that it might send to future players that you want to extend is not the proper message, right? So, I mean, I could go on. I could go on. but there are real reasons here that it lines up. And again, the Diamondbacks don't have one particular player on their team

that they could trade at this point that has the years of control left and has the pedigree that could tell Marte does that you would actually want to consider trading, even consider trading, that would get you a haul in return. You could do it for Corby and Carroll. You could do it for Aldo Pardomo. And me and Damon will quit our jobs and we'll just spend our entire time protesting

down at Chase Field. We'll make signs. We'll come up with protest chance. It might literally just be the two of us. But if you moved to either one of those guys, it's over for you as an organization with us because we will not stand for that. Ketalmarte probably deserves that same respect from us. But I feel like as far as what the groundwork has been laid here,

right, as we discuss the friction, the missing time, and having to apologize, having teammates be upset with them, having the organization internally be upset with them over this. It does feel like, you know, again, now would be a time that at least if you line the facts up, it makes sense to trade Catelle. Nothing makes more sense than him reaching that 10, you know, that 10 years of service time, you know, in five years with a team so that now he has a no veto clause, right? And that is bit or no trade clause, essentially.

He can veto any trade to anywhere. It is purely up to Cotell Marte after about the midpoint. of the 2026 season if he gets traded or not. Any idea has to be floated through his agent, and he can reject any trade at that point. So as far as this, you know, as far as the idea of trading Cattel, that this is the only time where the Diamondbacks have full control over that

in order to make that happen without Cotel being able to veto any trade. So these are all of the reasons why it makes sense, but there are so many more reasons why it doesn't. Mike Hazen sat in front of us and told us that his biggest regret as a general manager was trading Paul Goldschman. And what he never considered in that trade was what it was going to do to the locker room, what it was going to do to the clubhouse by trading Paul Goldschman. And that's what happened with that trade. It impacted the clubhouse and things just were not the same without Paul Gulchman. I could only imagine, despite reports of his teammates,

upset with him, how the clubhouse would feel without Coutel Marte in it any longer. Cotel Marte is a delight both on and off the field. And I'll tell you, he is loved by his teammates. It's the reason why Geraldo Pardomo stood up for him like he did. So I just, you know, there's just, there's just many reasons that people like look at giving away a core piece for pocket change, for nothing, over some minor, bat that the players seems like sincerely regretful of and apologetic about um it just doesn't make any

sense unless the return is utterly jaw dropping um and it would have to be a team like the mets or a team that have like just incredible assets or and are able to give the diamond backs far more uh than than we would expect you know but it's like unless the internal strife is too much to deal with or unless the Diamondbacks are completely going to pivot as Jack said, do a complete retool where the hall is a big hall but it's more

younger players and prospects than trading Cotella Marte does not make sense. So again I'll say that overall this is, I think this would be a move that would break the

locker room more than you know make it better. I don't think could tell is a locker room cancer. I don't think he's a person that his teammates want to see gone. And quite frankly, he is a guy that was an MVP candidate, you know, right up there, right? He missed some time and it kind of made him fall out of the race. We'll never, ever forget that. Damon won't ever forget why you miss time ever, thanks to the Phillie fanatic. Oh, oh, you're talking about Jared Stubbs. I'm not talking about a missing time voluntarily. I'm talking about when, when, when, when,

and his MVP run kind of kid. Yeah, I get that. I get that. But yeah, I mean, overall here, I think that this is a bad idea. But like I said earlier, I am not fully of the mindset that the Diamondbacks are not considering this. And again, there are a lot of reasons why it does make sense. But at the end of the day, I think it's going to be, if it happened, it would replace Paul Goldschmidt as Mike Hazen's biggest regret in his career as a gentleman. manager. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, personally, it feels like a more personality-driven

rumor than anything. Sure. Like, it feels like Mike is, like, upset with Catelle, with the whole situation that happened in the middle of this season. And ever since then, it's somewhat felt like there's a disconnect there. But at the same time, I do think that this has been a bit overblown. I mean, like, I don't know if you saw Derek the mock trade of Catell to the Mets. and he commented on it. Did you see that? And he was telling his buddy clearly was like, oh, this would be like a dream.

And added Ketel and Ketel told him to go to sleep. Yeah, told him to go to sleep, basically. And people even looked into that too. They're like, he didn't say no, though. Yeah, he told his idiot friend to go to sleep and stop messaging, stop tagging him an Instagram post about trains. Yeah, there probably will be talks.

But I really highly doubt anything happens for the reason that Jack said when he was leaving the show. there's always it's either too much or too little it's hard to find a trade that truly makes sense for right for both teams because the diamondbacks aren't just going to quit and lay down they're not trying to just trade kattel for a package of five prospects and get over with it right if they're going to trade katell he's not at the end of his contract it's not like what they got for merrill kelly for instance i feel like was a great trade for this team and it was a bad trade for the rangers for sure it's what they want is a superstar or star level pitcher yeah in return

That's what I want. And if you're not going to give me that, then I'm not even considering it. I'm not taking your phone call. Yeah. And then honestly, you know, you look at it and it's like now you have a giant hole at second base. Now what do you do? What do you do on that second middle infield spot? See, those are the things though.

Like when Jack ran through it, I feel like even for now they would be okay. It wouldn't be as good. We would miss Ketel really quickly. Yeah. Like Lawler. Yeah. I'm not saying they have options. They have guys that could play the position.

Even Blaze could play it. But yeah, you move Blaze over to third base. You move Lawler to second. which was, you know, the short stop and second was kind of his natural positions. And again, then you can maybe use that trade to add to the rest of the pieces that you're now missing. But again, the starting pitching situation is where the Diamondbacks are currently just a disaster. Corbyn's coming back at the midpoint of the season. If this team, of course, can stay competitive, that gives us that essentially that lights out ace that we need.

right but you know with the way this team was constructed again could you imagine them being in the playoffs this year with how good the starting pitching has been and even even in some cases like the brewers how dominant their offense was right like there's just a lot of scenarios where if i like watching this team from 2025 and then looking at these postseason teams and the way they're starting pitching is delivering i i can't help but think we don't have that we're not even close to that we're not even halfway there when it comes to how good some of these teams are with their starting pitching, especially looking at the Dodgers doing everything that they're doing here with these four guys that they're leaning on. There's no doubt about that. And, you know, I'm not going to

sit here and be like, this dying back's rotation would have shown you different in the playoffs, Derek. But what I will say is that they did pitch a lot better towards the end of the season. Yeah, they did. Brain and fought had that eight-inning, you know, one-hit gem that he threw. I think you have to put, you know, some stock into that and say that was a great, big moment end of the season for fought. Erod started to look decent in the back half of the season. Ryan Nelson is an absolute dude. We know that now. It's been a year and a half where he's been the best pitcher on this team.

And I think that sample size is big enough where you feel comfortable Ryan Nelson is a guy. And then, you know, I know he's on the team. I hate to say this, but as solid of a number three pitcher as you could find, in baseball, right? Like, that's where I envision Ryan Nelson at if this team was at 100%. Yeah. Corbyn Burns, number one, you bring in somebody that fills that number two hole. You have Ryan Nelson number three, fought for Erod 5.

That's a solid starting, you know, rotation. If fought an Erod can find a way to have a sub five ERA and be what they have been for this team at times. Sub five. Please. 425 ERA. Four seven. Four seven is fine. Just give us something mid-fours. But yeah, I agree with you, Derek. I think, you know, obviously not on the team. Neither one of them are. But, you know, Zach Allen figured some things out towards the end of last year as well. Maybe you bring him back and you feel a little bit better about that situation, having a fourth guy. But, you know, I'm not to say that these pitchers would have gone in there and done anything. I think it's more likely than not the Diamondbacks get eliminated the first time that they play. And in two games. Do you remember the Reds? Do you remember the Reds were even in? in the playoffs. More likely than not, that's the case.

But it's also like I hate, I keep telling you this, but I hate doing the, well, if we made it, we wouldn't have done anything. I know. I know. We don't know. We thought we weren't going to do anything in 2020. And then what did we do? We had a dream season.

Like, I, I just think it's unfair until you get in those moments. Big game, Brandon on the mound. Like, you got, you got Ryan Nelson shoving. Like, who knows what would have happened. I mean, it's like Jack said, you can't even begin to speculate on what a return for Catea Marte is because there's too many infinite realities there when it comes to that, right? Yeah. Really, like you said, there's too many infinite realities to even understand what the

Diamondbacks would have done in the postseason had they gotten there. Maybe their offense just erupts like it has at times this season. It's just for me, personally, it's hard to envision them having a tremendous amount of success, you know, after not just, it's not what they did at the end of the season, even though they fizzled out because they were very strong at one point during the month of September. it's more of what these other teams are doing in the post. No doubt about it. We don't have that level of pitching and we need to make a big push to get that this offseason.

A 3-1 ball game? Like we don't have that kind of play. Before you kidding me? To keep it a 3-1 ball game. But we might score like 8 in the 8th inning, you know? That's Diamondbacks baseball. But yeah, I do think that, you know, this team is obviously the pitching is such a big issue. But to Jack's point, to your point, like how much does trading could tell for a top line

starting pitcher get you closer to winning a world series. I wouldn't say it really does at all because he's your most consistent pure hitter on the team. I'm not going to say he's the best player in general. I think there's arguments to be made here and there. But he's the most consistent pure hitter on the team without a question. He was the World or the NLCS MVP when the Diamondbacks won the last national league that they won.

He was, he had to walk off in that. Like you need Ketel in the playoffs in these big moments. That is part of the recipe for success for this team. And a part of that, you know, is we're going to have to fix this pitching this offseason. I don't know how they're going to do it, but hopefully they can figure it out. Without trading could tell. Without trading could tell. That's the bigger thing.

Well, we thank you guys for joining us. Make sure to join us this weekend. The Cardinals crew is going to be out there at Chicken and Pickle on Sunday for a pregame tailgate. They're going to be doing their pregame post game and halftime shows. So make sure to join us for that. Plus our friends at Rally House will be giving out $8 $8.50 gift cards to fans and attendance. It's going to be a blast. Go to

go phtonx.com slash events to RSBP for this free event. And then, of course, if you're going to be in Glendale tonight, come watch Bert Kreisher, pour vodka down my throat. That's going to be a great time. So until Monday, hope you guys have a wonderful weekend. Hope this Mariners team can figure

things out. I hope they are still alive on Monday when we are talking about this. Thank you to Corey Oldham for his super chat. Appreciate you, sir. Appreciate every single one of you. Like I said, make sure follow us on Twitter. I'm at Kapp underscore caveman with a K. Daman is at Damon dog with a DAWG at the end. We are all Damon's dogs. Bark, bark. Our show is at PHNX underscore Rhodesley to at PHNX underscore sports on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

Corey threw out a trade, he said trademarked and Payv and Smith for and Murillo for Diaz, Brandon Lowe, Rasmussen, and Fairbanks. All right. We're going to have to dig into that one. That's a lot. I need to dig into that one. I mean, that's a massive trade. I mean, obviously. He loves the idea of getting hurt of payment. I was going to say we tossed in Pavin. I think that brings down the trade package a little bit. But you did increase David's interest in it. Oh,

see, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, like I saw the Ketel part and I was like, I'm out. And then I kept reading and I thought, you brought me back in. You brought me back.

I could hear, I could hear you on it. I mean, I think Diaz is like an insane player, right? Like, he's really good for the raise. Yeah.

If, if, uh, if the raise were offered a trade that involved them replacing Diaz with Pavin Smith. I think they might just hang up the phone right then. They don't even care about the Cotel aspect. They're like, what?

Payman Smith, goodbye. Anyway, well, we thank you guys. Hope you guys have a wonderful weekend. We will see you back here on Monday at 12 p.m. Until then, enjoy your weekend. Go see snakes. Go seebacks. And remember, kids, baseball is fun,

but it's so much more fun when you stop even considering trading Cotel Marte.