PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Ketel Marte Wins First Silver Slugger Award, Named Finalist for NL MVP

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

JOIN THE DIEHARDS FOR JUST $4 A MONTH! https://www.gophnx.com/intro-offer-youtube Arizona Diamondbacks second baseman Ketel Marte won the first Silver Slugger award of his career on Tuesday. We have more on if this should be his second time winning the award and where we think he will finish in the MVP voting. We also discuss the D-backs reportedly targeting Ryan Helsley from the St Louis Cardinals in a potential trade, updates on the Salt River Rafters in the Arizona Fall League, and how Jordan Lawlar is doing in the Dominican Winter League. Join Derek, Jesse, and Kevin for the PHNX Diamondbacks Show LIVE! An ALLCITY Network Production SUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtube ALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsports MERCH https://store.allcitynetwork.com/collections/phnx-locker ALLCITY Network, Inc. aka PHNX and PHNX Sports is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by the City of Phoenix PHNX Events: Get your tickets to PHNX events and takeovers here: https://gophnx.com/events/ bet365: https://www.bet365.com/olp/open-account?affiliate=365_03330244 Use the code PHNX365 to sign up, deposit $10 and choose your offer! Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and physically located in AZ. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-NEXT-STEP, text NEXTSTEP to 53342 or visit https://problemgambling.az.gov/ Bluechew: Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code ALLCITY at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. That’s https://bluechew.com promo code ALLCITY to receive your first month FREE. Visit for more details and important safety information, and we thank BlueChew for sponsoring the podcast.. Zbiotics: Go to https://zbiotics.com/phnxdbacks to get 15% off your first order when you use PHNXDBACKS at checkout. Pre-Alcohol is backed with 100% money back guarantee so if you’re unsatisfied for any reason, they’ll refund your money, no questions asked. Empire Today: Schedule a free in-home estimate today! All listeners can receive a $350 OFF discount when they use the promo code PHNX. Restrictions apply. See https://empiretoday.com/phnx for details. Branded Bills: Use code PHNX at https://www.brandedbills.com/ for 20% off your first order! Gametime: Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Circle K: Join Inner Circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today! Head to https://www.circlek.com/store-locator to find Circle Ks near you! Shady Rays: Exclusively for our listeners, Shady Rays is giving out their best deal of the season. Head to https://shadyrays.com and use code: PHNX for 35% off polarized sunglasses. Try for yourself the shades rated 5 stars by over 300,000 people. Check out FOCO merch and collectibles and use promo code “PHNX10” for 10% off your order on all non Pre Order items. Rugged Road: Gear up for your next adventure with Rugged Road Coolers - Your ultimate outdoor companion! Head to http://ruggedroadoutdoors.pxf.io/ALLCITY and use code PHNX for 10% off! Get 10 FREE meals at https://hellofresh.com/freedbacks. Applied across 7 boxes, new subscribers only, varies by plan. When you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Which reliever are the Arizona Diamondbacks targeting in the trade market this off season? We'll talk about it right now in about 30 seconds. Don't go anywhere. Bienvenitos and welcome in to another edition of the PHNXTBACs podcast right here on PHNX. My name is Derek Montia. Of course, I am always known as your mayor of PHNX. And I might just change the election rules so that they can never vote me out. This man next to me, my vice mayor, your thunderstick, the one and only, Jesse Friedman.

We got our guy, Kevin Thomas. large intimate Kevin Thomas on the ones and twos today. Hello to you all. Happy, what is it? Wednesday. I don't know. I lose track now. These shows are all at one o'clock.

They all kind of run together for me. And it's the off season. And we just speculate and hear about trade rumors. That's what we do at this time of the year. Of course, we hope you guys are having a wonderful time out there. And we hope more than anything that Kattel Marte is having a wonderful time celebrating his first career Silver Slugger Award. Should it be his first career silver slugger award? Slugger Award? I don't know. Jesse and I had some thoughts on that, but at least he got this one and he absolutely deserved it. He's also in the MVP finalist consideration. So that's fun, even though we all know he's not going to win it. But going back to the award, he did win, which is the Silver Slugger Award. Ketel Marte had himself an incredible season this year. No doubt that he was the favorite to win this award and he did not get snubbed on this one. Kattel finished the season slashing 292, 372, 560 with 36.

six home runs, 95 RBI, and a 6.3.4. It was a decent season, Derek. Not bad. There's a decent season. It'll play. I'm trying to imagine what the intro to today's show would have been like if we had walked in here and like Jonathan India had been named the Silver Slugger in the National League. You know exactly what this would have been like.

It'd be a very dark day on the Ph. NXD Backs podcast. Damon would have gotten here early just to throw furniture around. I would have refused to do the show. The office would be in complete disarray. Oh, man, it would have been awful. We wouldn't have gotten to use that sick graphic that we got to use on social. That would have been the biggest.

That would have been track. Sure. But I mean, it's, again, to the surprise of no one that Cattel won this award. And I mean, we talked about it with other awards, the Golden Glove Award. You know, you could tell there's other metrics there that made Cattel not necessarily the favorite. And even though his defense was great this season. and his defense and his offense combined together is what makes him a finalist for the MVP award. He, you know, absolutely killed it when it comes to the field as far as NL's second baseman

offensively. And I mean, that's even with that injury that occurred, you know, at the end of the season there and the missed time and then how much he struggled kind of coming back. Again, that's another reason Damon isn't here. He'd be throwing furniture just me talking about that alone. But, I mean, again, this is one of those situations where I think the only surprising thing, was to realize upon researching it that it was in fact, Cotel Marte's first Silver Slugger. We were fairly certain that he had already won one,

but he had not. And that's kind of odd because we looked back, especially at his 2019 season and can't help a question if he should have then. Yeah, yeah, 2019 Cotel Marte was a sight to behold. I still think this season was probably better than that, at least on a rate basis. His production this season, I think, was better.

But yeah, 2019, Catelle Marte hit 329 and hit 32 home runs and, you know, had an OPS of pretty close to a thousand. So you could make a case that he should have won a Silver Slugger in 2019. But it's also really complicated because Cattel in 2019 did not play one position. And this is a position-based award. He played, he basically split time at center field and second base in 2019. He played a little more center field than second base. but at that point the utility silver slugger award was not a thing that was not introduced until 2022 so i think if that had existed in 2019 then kattel should have won that award or would have won

that award but it didn't exist and so there wasn't really a great path for him to win it then and and it's really not all that all that surprising uh that this is the the first time he's won the award uh to elizabeth in the chat she says where is everyone do i have to carry the chat today oh no Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Apparently you do. You're going to have to do the heavy lifting to Yvonne in the chat, who asks, is Gritchick leaving? We don't know, but we think that that is most likely.

Well, we're going to talk about Randall Gritchick leaving. And again, what the Diamondbacks are going to do here. We have some more to cover in regards to how they could possibly replace Jock Peterson and Randall Gritchick. It's just not going to be easy considering how well both of those guys perform this season. But I will say, Catelle Marte, absolutely deserves. all of the accolades for the season he had. And again, we know that it's a foregone conclusion

that Shoheyotani is going to win the National League MVP award. It is worth at least acknowledging the fact that Cattell is a finalist. It's also worth acknowledging that Jesse and I also learned that the finalist thing for like the Silver Slugger Award hasn't been around for that long.

At least I don't think so. I'm not sure. We can't really find evidence of like, finalists in the past too much. So it was just kind of the field and then they would pick a winner. And I don't know how that changes things because we did talk the other day about how ridiculous it was that we were even talking about being snubbed for the Silver Slugger Award as a finalist, not as a winner, but as merely as a finalist for the award.

And maybe it's because they haven't been doing it for very long. It is interesting though because it does highlight and similar here with the finalist for the MVP, it highlights the year that these three guys have had. And both all three of these guys had an incredible season and were instrumental in their team's success. Shohei Otani, of course, being the favor here. But let's take a look at that graphic when it comes to those three finalists for the MVP award. It was showy Otani, Francisco Lindor and Catelle Marte. When you see here on this comparison graphic, you'll see why there's no doubt as to who led every single statistical category when it comes to these three guys.

But the other two, you know, you could say something about the fact that the other two are defenders and that there is a lot, there's, you know, there's a lot more that goes on in baseball when you also have to play the position versus being in DH like Otani. He kind of, you know, he had an easy route, if you will, to these numbers. However, he's just a generational talent and he's incredible and there's no reason not to acknowledge the amazing season he had. I mean, just give him the MVP for that six for six game alone. Yeah, yeah, that was ridiculous. The way that he finished the season was ridiculous. But I will say that Otani, I think, was at a legitimate disadvantage here in the MVP conversation, given that he is a designated hitter. He needed to outperform all of the other contenders that played positions by a wide enough margin to justify the fact that to justify winning that award with not playing a single inning in the field the entire season. And he did that. He absolutely did that. that was a conversation we had at several points throughout the year.

I think Ketel had a legitimate shot at this award fairly late into the season. But at a certain point, Otani just created so much separation between his offensive numbers. And I think it really came down to, as we're saying here, Lindor and Ketel Marte, I think we're the two other guys that really had a shot at this. That difference became so big, coupled with the fact that Ketel Marte missed some time toward the end of the year, which certainly didn't help his case. I don't think he wins the award even if he plays the. those games, frankly. But yeah, there's really no debate here. Showy Otani is going to be the

NL MVP and he's going to be the first MVP in Major League history at designated hitter. And, you know, who better than someone like Shohei Otani to be the first guy to do that. Elizabeth says Cattell gives the best facial expressions. Can we give base MVP off that instead? And here's the problem with that. I don't know. This isn't going to help me beat the allegations of me being a Dodgers fan, but I will say like, yes, Catel Marte does give the best facial expressions, but if you could think of someone else, that gives ridiculously wholesome and incredible facial expressions

while playing the game of baseball, it's Joey Otati. There's a whole highlight reel on the adorable expressions that he makes. And I think the similarity there is just the fact that both guys play this game with such an amount of joy. And it's so much fun to watch both of these guys play baseball. And again, there is a wholesomeness to both of them when they're out there kind of, you know,

playing a game that everybody takes so seriously and playing a game where guys make millions upon millions of dollars they're out there laughing joking around with the opposing you know player could tell we've talked about his high jinks with uh just trying to hide the ball and pretend like he threw it and then still tagging the guy out hoping he like got a foot off the base or something and he's always doing it with a laugh and a smile like he doesn't really mean it but he's got to catch you one of these days he's absolutely going to catch you sleeping and that's what's fun about that but i just think uh again it's it's it's hard because Because, you know, the, especially considering the injury to Marte, it really changed his season.

I just don't think that even if he hadn't lost time due to injury, he still would have been able to compete with the historically good season that Otomi had, unfortunately, right? Yeah, yeah. I think ultimately the question here for us to try to figure out is, is Katel going to get second or third? Is he going to be Francisco Indoor or is he going to come in in third place behind Linus? And my inclination is that Marte will get third just because I think that's where Marte missing those games does come into play. You look at if we can pull up the comparison graphic one more time, Lindor edged out Kattel just barely in Winds above replacement, 7 to 6.8.

If you look at fan graphs, though, that difference is much larger. I think it's 7.8 to 6.3, just a different way of calculating that number. you look at the offensive numbers here, you know, like a 155 OPS plus for Catelle versus 138 for Lendor, that has to count for something. But when you factor in that Lendor is a shortstop and an elite one at that, it's a more valuable defensive position than second base. And he played more games. He played 14 more games. And I think the narrative also favors him, you know, where would that Mets team have been without Francisco Lendor? Certainly not in the postseason. So I think You can tell how to big roll for the diamond backs as well, no doubt.

But I think that the narrative favors the Mets and Lundor as well. Sorry, our TV is very far away and I am old. Is that an effective way for you to see things better? Like trying to. I mean, that's what it's what Gino taught me to do. Is that not? Okay. Yeah, yeah.

I sure that works well for you. I think you're right, though. I think really when it comes down to it, the, but you could argue that Marte and Lendor were both essentially more valuable to their own team than sure. Joe Hottani, but that's, there could be argued because it's just such an amazing roster over there in Los Angeles, right? So it's like you saw what happened during the playoffs where without Otani's production, they were still able to, you know, not miss a beat, right?

So when you talk about the actual most valuable players of their individual teams, like Jesse said, Lindor, without Lindor, the Mets don't make the playoffs. And I think that's probably the big, the big difference there is that the Mets did pull off an incredible run from being, you know, the third worst team in the National League to making the playoffs. And the Diamondbacks didn't. They fell short. So I think that really the numbers kind of favor Lindor a bit, but Marte again, I mean, doesn't matter. Do we care? Second or third. You didn't win the thing. Does it matter where you finish after that point? We know that in regards to his contract, right, he's going to, whether he finishes second or third, he's still going to receive

that same amount of increase. Yes. I don't remember exactly what the number is. But yes, Ketel has a clause in his contract where if he finishes between first and third and MVP voting, then he gets a bonus the following year. And he also gets a bonus for finishing between fourth and seventh at a lower dollar value. So he locked in like the highest possible bonus already just by being a finalist. I agree with you though that, you know, debating whether Kattel should get second or third, it feels like debating whether Eugenio Suarez was snubbed from being a finalist for Silver Slugger at third. base like an award he's not going to win but like oh you feel like you should have gotten the respect

and at least been on there uh so it's not it's not going to matter a ton at the end of the day i do think that some people will vote kutel second that's my guess true i think that lindor will finish second but i think could tell will pick up a few second place votes just because like you look at his ross slash line 292 372 560 uh compared to francisco lindore 273 344 540 That's a pretty wide gap. Yeah. And I think some people might just look at those rate stats and see a big enough difference to go with Catell over Lendor. Looking at his stats again, the one thing I think about is the contract extension that he signed with the Diamondbacks and what a steal he actually is at what he currently makes.

So he deserves this bump even without being in the top three in MVP voting just based on his production this year and what he was able to do for this team. the accomplishments he personally achieved. The Silver Slugger Award, All-Star, you know, for the Diamondbacks. And it was just an incredible season overall. So he deserves a pay bump. And, you know, again, it's one of those situations where you're not mad at all about this. I like performance-based, you know, stipulations in contracts. And I think if you're able to achieve something like this and then be in the top three for MVP voting,

that's when those kind of clauses should absolutely kick in. And it shouldn't just be for Kutel. That should be something every player, frankly. has in their in their clause but if if can i ask real quick if so we've discussed this before if the diamond backs had not signed kattel to that extension prior to the 22 season he would be a free agent this winter which is sort of a horrifying reality a horrifying thing to think about if you're the diamondbacks my question is if katell were a free agent this off season where would he rank on the list of players available this winter one sodo's got to be higher yeah right one so does number

one. Quonsoto's number one. Garrett Cole, probably number two. Garrett Cole is going back to the Yankees now. So I guess he's sort of off the list. We can remove him out. But Corbin Burns is maybe more desirable than Patel. A starting picture of his caliber, I would say. Roki Sasaki would be like in the mix. I don't know if it would be higher than Katel. He would be based on the fact of how much he's going to make. I think Sasaki based on the fact that they're getting him for the value that they're going to get him for is going to make all teams interested. Whereas Katel would be a player that. teams would have to have that almost not going to say Soto money, but I mean, half the Soto

money at least. I mean, Cotel Marta is at least going to make $200 million if he was a free agent right now. Yeah, I would think so. At least, at least like getting pretty close to 200. Outside of Juan Soto, I think he would be the most highly sought after position player on the market. I think you'd rather have Cotel than Alex Bregman. Yeah, maybe somewhat close. But Cattel was just, he was an elite offensive player. Alex Bregman was not an elite offensive player in 2020. And you can't help that even though Astros have their business model, that they're going to try to do everything they can in the world

to bring Brighman back and have them retire as an Astro, right? Like that's just one guy that I think that they want in the organization until the end. However, the Astros stay competitive. So one way by doing that is to not get sentimental about your players and wanting them to stick around for their whole career. But trying to go out there and get better while also maybe saving yourself some money, Bregman's going to cost you quite a bit on the open market. I don't want to talk about this reality.

I don't like this reality. Well, but it's fine to talk about, Derek, because it's not, it's not the reality. It makes me upset. You can have the conversation and then you can be like, oh, we don't have to, we don't have to actually live in that world. That's the darkest possible timeline. That's the darkest possible timeline. I don't like that.

But of course, we do know that the Arizona Diamondbacks are going to be making attempts to make this team better. We've heard from Mike Hazen. We're going to talk about one potential relief pitcher the Diamondbacks might be targeted. in the trade market on the other side of this break don't you go anywhere shout out to our friends at empire today you've heard the name for generations here in the valley and that's because empire today is known as the king of flooring replacement and that is because they offer easy quick and convenient service they also offer a curated product selection so you don't have to look through thousands of samples

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Place a bet at $5 or more and get $150 in bonus bets. Find out why whatever the moment, it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 21 or over and physically located in Arizona. If you are someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 180 next step. text next step to 533442 or visit problemgambling.az.gov. Well, Jesse, the rumors are flying. We know that the Arizona Diamondbacks are going to be in the market to improve this team and they are going to have to get a little creative on how they do so, right?

Of course, it's hard to look at this roster and determine exactly where, what they might pinpoint to improve. We feel like they're fairly set at a lot of positions, you know, it feels like the outfield set. A lot of the infield is set outside of the first base. out first base, depending on what happens with Christian Walker. But we do know that the Diamondbacks are targeting, improving their bullpen. And of course, now with pitching coach Brian Kaplan in place, we know that this team can start looking at their options.

We have heard reports, rumors, if you will, that the Diamondbacks are potentially looking to trade for Ryan Helsley from the St. Louis Cardinals. And we know Ryan is a pretty damn good relief pitcher in Major League Baseball. Ryan Helsley is a very good relief pitcher in Major League Baseball. 66 and a third innings in 2024, a 2.0 for ERA, 1.10 whip, a strikeout rate just under 30% at 29.7, walk rate of 8.7% and a FIP of 2.41. Ryan Helsley, Derek, led all of Major League Baseball in saves in 2024 with 49. He was 49 for 53. That is a success rate over 92%. If you are looking for a guy to walk down the ninth inning, it is hard to imagine anyone better than Ryan Helsley.

There are a couple of elite closers in baseball, and he is definitely one of them. We know that the Cardinals are still, I'm not going to say in disarray, but I feel like they're still in a phase of. They're sort of a disarray. They're figuring themselves out again. They are figuring out what their core is and who they're moving forward with. Helsley's under club control for one more year at an estimate of $6.9 million. The Cardinals do seem fairly likely to deal him according to reports. And I will say that it lines up a little bit with what the Diamondbacks would be looking for, right?

The Diamondbacks are really just looking to be all in on 2025. Beyond that, there are options for closer. We know that they are trying, I'm sure, to mature Justin Martinez into that role and get him possibly as to be their closer of the future. That could even, you know, happen this season. But with Helsley, again, there's that, there's that same thing with bringing in, you know, Paul Seawalt, where everybody would kind of know their role. And it would allow a lot of the relievers that are currently here to kind of fit into, you know, their high leverage roles and the relief rolls and where everybody's kind of going to be. And it feels like it would all happen with just the acquisition of a closer like Helsley. Yeah.

And for the contingent of Diamondbacks fans that is, is tired of having. closers that throw in the low 90s, Ryan Helsley would be a breath of fresh air. In 24, Helsley's four-seem fastball average 99.6 miles an hour. It's been exactly the same pretty much for the last three years. Slider is in the upper 90s or upper 80s. He has a curve ball that he throws every once in a while. Also, he is a very different type of pitcher than the Diamondbacks have had in their closing role for quite a while. I guess with the exception of J. Martz, who did occupy the closing role for the team down the stretch. And, well, I guess he didn't occupy the closing role because Tori Lavello was never willing to call

Justin Martinez the closer. So maybe I shouldn't say that. Refused to. Refused to. So, yeah, Ryan Helsley, like, I mean, even Devin Williams, who we talked about recently, who also is an outstanding, outstanding closer, one of the best. Even Devin Williams, for as good as he is, more so is in the mid-90s, right? I think his fastball average is about 95.

Helsley averages 100 miles an hour and has done that for several years now. So if you're a D-Backs fan who wants to see a guy just throwing absolute gas in the ninth inning, then Ryan Helsley is about as good as you can do. Well, considering that most of our pitchers throw 91 miles per hour, Jesse, I think that would be a refreshing change of pace outside of Justin Martinez, of course. But again, what is this going to cost the Arizona Diamondbacks? We do know that there has been. some interest according, you know, to reports on their starting pitching, but that's not

the only area that teams are interested in. And I'm not, I'm, I'm kind of doubting the St. Louis Cardinals want Jordan Montgomery back. However, St. Louis Cardinals, can I interest you in one Jordan Montgomery? You're familiar with him. You know him. You love him. That's your guy, right? We'll bring him back home. He'll have a good time. He'll enjoy the weather. He has definitely been very complimentary about your weather there. in St. Louis. So you can actually have him back for fairly cheap. I mean, we'll take Ryan off your hands. I mean, Jordan Montgomery was, he was pretty good during his time in St. Louis. He was. In all seriousness,

like I, maybe there's a world where, where St. Louis is a place where you could figure things out. I don't think you're trading Jordan Montgomery for Ryan Helsley straight up. I, I mean, I guess you would. I don't think the Cardinals are. I absolutely would. I would do it right now. I don't even, let's just sign the paperwork. Let's get it out. We'll forge my name. It doesn't matter. be there for it. But what is interesting is like again, yes, obviously that's not going to be the deal. What would it cost though? Let's just for argument's sake, take

Jordan completely out of it, right? Like, there's a good chance here that the cost is going to be higher than most people would like to really discuss. There's a good chance that a name like Alec Thomas might be involved with that. And I mean, again, considering the youth of Alec Thomas and the future that he could

still have with this team, you're trading that for one year of an elite closer that you most likely are unsure that you're going to be able to bring back or extend beyond the end of this season. So it's, I don't know, it's, it's risky. However, it's, it's to get someone that is this good. It's going to cost you more than many people are going to want to part ways with. Yeah, I think the Cardinals are, it's a little hard to pinpoint exactly what they're looking for. But there's certainly not a team that's all in on 2024, hence why they'd be willing to deal one of the best closers in baseball and

the first place. They're looking for longer-term assets. So I don't know if they're interested in Alec Thomas, but that type of player, I think makes sense for them, someone that they would have team control of for a while. A Drake Jameson, maybe. Yeah, some of the Diamondbacks young starters, Gilbert Diaz, you know, guys like that that you could envision staying in a rotation for a number of years. I know there actually was a report about Helsley and the Diamondbacks.

I'm not sure exactly how credible it is. It's from at Cardinals underscore live on Twitter. They said source Arizona Diamondbacks with an arrow pointing to Helsley and said that there were multiple conversations with Cardinals, high interest discussed at GM meetings between the teams. I don't know if that report is credible, but I can say pretty confidently that the Diamondbacks, if they haven't already made a phone call about Ryan Helsley, they're probably going to do that at some point over the offseason. It makes a lot of sense as a team that's looking for back.

end relief help. He is set to make about $6.9 million in arbitration in 2025. So it's a reasonable dollar value. But as you're saying, it would cost you something. You would have to part with, with at least one young asset that you probably really like in order to facilitate a trade like this. Cam says Jameson is an absolute deal breaker. You know, I agree with that because like, where am I going to get the fire to put into my blood? Where am I going to get the fire for my blood? where I need fire in my blood. Ina Jackson says, Cicone.

See, after what we saw, after what we saw in the MLB in the show version. You have to be realistic. Yeah. You have to be realistic if you're a diamond back fan that someone like Slate Cicone just doesn't have a lot of trade value right now. I'm not saying it's zero.

But if you're trying to get Ryan Helsley, it's going to hurt. You're going to give up someone that you like. Ryan Helsley is too good of a player, even for just one year of a closer, he's too good of a player to just sort of send your spare, the spare pieces that you're not using

to the Cardinals in exchange for him. It would have to be, yeah, one of those young assets. I'm not sure exactly which one, but I think Jerry Jamison and Gilbert and, you know, I'm sure the Cardinals would love Jordan Lawler. I don't think there's any way

the debax would trade Lawler for one year of a closer, but those are the types of names that I think the Cardinals would be asking about. tomorrow show we're actually going to discuss the fact that the diamondbacks are receiving at least some some requests here and it might be likely that they part ways with one of their young outfielders that we've all kind of come along they have to trade an outfielder Derek they're not allowed to let an offseason go by without trading a left-in and hitting outfielders we've done it two years

in a row five foot 10 outfielder are they going to get in return for that one that they trade away that's the question yeah they have to replenish this there has to be a surplice jessie it's crazy for you to even suggest otherwise but um Yeah, I think, you know, what you said is, is the key here is like these trades that they're going to make, especially considering this young team and how we've come to embrace. Like, I mean, it felt it felt like even losing certain guys that we picked up during last season is tough, right? Like the idea of Kevin Newman not being this team after on this team after what he achieved last year is, is that kind of sucks. Right. So, like, again, we've been through a lot of ups and downs with these guys and especially the players that were part of this team that made that run in the postseason last year.

There could be names from that team move. There could be other guys that we see a very bright future with that could be moved. But it's it's not going to be without, I guess, casualties in a way. Like you're not going to improve this team without losing something. And at this point, the Diamondbacks have to decide how much all in do they want to be on 2025. I once again think that with very little change, this team could be equally as competitive as they were last year. I think the key there is pitching. That's all that there is.

The offense isn't going to be as good without guys like Christian Walker, Chuck Peterson, but they're still going to be able to perform. I think realistically, if the pitching can be much better, this team can be just as competitive as they were last year. The way that they currently are structured, how much of the future do you want a mortgage? That's the question. and how much do you want to do it to be all in on a guy that you're only going to get potentially for one season. This team kind of hasn't done a whole lot of this. And even when they did make those moves last off season, they were fairly conservative moves.

Like the hiring the picking up Randall Gritchick and Jock Peterson, like that was at the time they did not they did not really blow anyone away. Right. And the amount of money that they spent on them wasn't ridiculous compared to what you were seeing other DHS sign for and things like that. that. So I don't know. I think that this is a very, very good player. And I think the addition of Helzley to this team changes things immediately, right? Like, yeah, the idea there that you're no longer deciding on if you're going to go with AJ Puck or Justin Martinez in the ninth inning or who's going to go when or whatever, all that uncertainty, especially thinking back to a conversation

we had with Joe Mantiply, where he just talked about, you know, how everybody knew their role coming in each and every day once they acquired Paul Seawald. That's what's important. So even if they don't acquire a guy like Helsey, I feel like going after a closer that could help solidify things and kind of end the uncertainty that this team has had there late. I mean, it feels like the only time that we felt safe and secure was for that brief period in

2023 when we first picked up Paul Seawald. It was like a warm blanket, you know, and now it's like. I mean, and even then, I don't know if Seawald, he had experience at the position. There was a stability that the Diamondbacks hadn't had in a long time. But it's not like the results with Seawald were off the charts amazing. They weren't flawless. He had a mid-3 ERA in the second half.

And then in the postseason, he was dominant throughout, you know, the first several rounds. I think his final postseason ERA was like four or five because there were some rough moments in the World Series. But yeah, it's not like Seawald put up like crazy numbers as the Diamondbacks closer. it's just that they hadn't had any kind of stability in that role for so long. It felt like an enormous upgrade. And you think about how big, how important that was for the Diamondbacks, how much more important or how much bigger would it be if you got a guy like Ryan Helsley at the back end of this bullpen?

It'd be pretty easy to dream at this point on the Diamondbacks having one of the best bullpins in all of baseball if Helsley were a part of it. Well, it is almost the end of the Arizona fall. league season and we have some exciting playoff and championship games coming up. Yeah. The debacks might not have made the playoffs, but the Salt River Rafters.

Right? I mean, I know it's not the same, but it's kind of the same, right? Also, we've tried to warn you. Baseball is almost actually over. So if you don't come watch some Arizona Fall League games this week, don't come complain to us that you miss baseball because we tried to tell you.

And that's probably, I'm going to do some more finger wagging on the other side of this break. So don't you go. anywhere unless you're going to some sporting events and of course you should do that by getting your tickets through game time and of course procrastinate that's what game time wants you to do save on tickets last minute don't don't buy them early don't buy him six months in advance i bought tickets for weird owl almost 12 months in advance how insane is that for weird out it's because i had to do i don't want to

miss them again but of course you don't have to miss any shows by going to game time and saving up to 60% off by buying tickets last minute for sports, concerts, and so much more. GameTime has that feature that we've been talking about called Game Time Picks that makes getting your tickets for live events even easier. Game Time Picks filters out the fluff to show you only the incredible deals on great seats so you don't have to waste time searching through thousands of tickets. Also, you can see what your tickets are going to, view is going to look like from your current seat, depending on what arena you're staying at.

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It's game time. It's always game time. All right. Well, of course, we love our friends over at Sanderson Ford. If you are in the market for a new vehicle, you've got to check out Sanderson Ford. They are very thankful to have lived and prospered in Glendale for over 70 years. And they're thankful for their 500 employees who take care of their customers, making Sanderson Ford America's most awarded for dealership and customer satisfaction.

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Forget 12 teams. We have three teams making the playoffs. Three teams. That's it. It's still too many, Derek. Yeah, Jesse is like, it's half the league. It's half the league. There's only six.

There's only 16. It's like letting 15 major league teams into the playoffs. What is this? He hates it. I told you. He doesn't like a lot of teams in the playoffs. Just give them all a trophy at this point. Well, the Salt River Raptors could move into a tie for first place today, which is exciting.

They play surprise this afternoon. And if they beat the surprise Suarez at that stadium that I refuse to go to, they will be in first place. And the way it breaks down is there's like a semi-final game on Friday between the second place and third place team and then the championship game takes place i believe on saturday am i getting my game yes yes the championship would take place on saturday and we do have an update on that game as we speak what's going to get me it started about 20 minutes ago uh Tommy Troy hit a one out single in the top of the first go he advanced a second on a wild pitch and gino gruver just knocked him in with an rbi single let's go diamond back's prospects uh getting getting it done out there it's it's

one nothing salt river in the first inning. Hey, and you know, Gino Groover, again, hitting a single to nobody's surprise, but scoring Tommy Troy, that's fun. And again, Arizona Fall League,

it's been so much fun for us to keep an eye on it to see, especially the prospects that the Diamondbacks have had participating in it. I wish we would have got a little bit more of you, Min Lin, but Tommy Troy and Gino Grover, they've been a lot of fun to watch. And I mean, that's what,

it's what Arizona Fall League is all about. In a few years, hopefully, as long as the Diamondbacks don't do anything crazy and trade either of these guys away. We'll see them, you know, performing on this team. And that's what the fun of the fall league is. I mean, I feel like now I'm getting so old that I remember a lot of major leaguers right now playing in the fall stars game and in the Arizona fall league over my time covering it. So we just wanted to once again remind you, go check it out. There's not a lot of games left.

It's not super expensive. You can go watch the championship game. Is that taking place at Sloan Park? I feel like everything takes place at Sloan Park. Yeah, let me double check. I want to say, No, the championship is at Salt River Fields. There is. So Saturday, November 16th, Salt River Fields at 6 o'clock, and then that semi-final, which it looks pretty likely that the rafters will be in the semifinal game, although they might overtake surprise and maybe they're just getting an automatic ticket to the championship. That's exciting.

Yeah, that semi-final is at Scottsdale Stadium on Friday night at 630. So, yeah, it should be fun. I find myself in life going to events. And, you know, of course, being the cramudgeon that I am at times, just being kind of upset by how crowded everything always is now. No matter where I go, no matter what time of the day, especially that damn I-17 freeway. Don't even get me started on that. Yeah, I 17. It's not a happy place.

It's the worst. But I'll also say that, you know, it's the opposite effect. I'm just equally as upset when I go to an Arizona Fall League game and see how empty it is because it's like this wonderful little, you know, almost secret that people still don't check out. And yet, you know, the interest is. is there in games. I'm not going to say similar to this, but my God, but you know,

Savannah bananas sell out in seconds when their tickets go on sale. Like, I think just by the fact that it's the most beautiful weather of the year and you are getting this wonderful mix of the top prospects in baseball from all 30 MLB teams, it seems crazy to not have more people out there, especially considering that each team is a little bit of a minor league all-star team

for, you know, a certain, you know, for a few organizations. So I don't know. I'm just encouraging. you once again to go get a chance to watch the last remnants of baseball before it's gone forever until February.

Yeah, I mean, I guess we do have the, we do have the premier, the premier 12 that you men Lynn is. We also have the winner, the winner, yeah, and the winner, yeah, and the winner the winner game. Baseball really is year-round, Derek, you're willing to travel internationally. Cam says any way these games will be live-streamed, they will be live-streamed. I believe you can find them on the area. Arizona Fall League website.

If you just Google Arizona Fall League, you should be able to find that. And I want to say that at least the championship game would be broadcast on MLB Network. They definitely broadcasted the Fall Stars game. And I'm pretty sure they do that with the championship game as well. So if you have access to MLB Network, I think you can find that one there. Is Stefan Carey possibly broadcasting that game? I don't think so. I think the Kerry brothers have ditched us.

They fled the valley? I think they fled the valley. What did they do this time? I know they did something. Yeah, maybe they were forced out. I don't have an explanation for why they left. They get chased the way every single time. Of course, we do, speaking of the Dominican Winter League,

we do have some updates on Jordan Lawler here coming up. And again, that's that Jordan Lawler, there was a chance, there's chances to see him a little bit there. He's going to be playing in Reno this year. I know we have some comments from my K's. We also know that, you know, again, this is a healthy Jordan Lawler. However, he hasn't been doing as good as maybe his start was there in the Dominican Winter League this year. We are going to talk about all of that and more on the other side of this break.

So make sure you don't go anywhere. Stick around. Well, chicken and pickle, of course, is our favorite place to go and spend some time. We have some wonderful events coming up, including our PH&X winner pickleball tournament on December 14th at Chicken and Pickle. And Glendale, we doubled the field since our first tournament with 48 teams this year. all skill levels welcome we have phnx prizes food and drink specials so much fun if you had the proceeds are going to operation santa claus so sign up over at go p hnx.com slash events don't wait for us go out and check out chicken and pickle if you're curious about pickleball

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That's bluechew.com promo code all city to receive your first month for free. Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Bluechew for sponsoring this podcast. All right. Well, Jesse, Jordan Lawler, of course, is once again another important part of the future of this team. And, you know, again, we don't know what the dime. and backs are going to do in 2025, but we're fairly certain that we will see Jordan Lawler on the major league roster this season, getting some playing time, most likely over there at third base. He has been playing in the Dominican Winter League this year.

And again, he had a fairly hot start, but kind of cooled off a little bit as of late. He's averaging 250 as an on-base percentage of 315 with a slugging percentage of just 375. He's only hit two home runs. He has 10 RBI, and he has four stolen bases. Yeah, I believe this is in 73 played appearances. The other numbers that really stand out, to me, for Lawler, are his strikeout rate and walk rate. He has struck out at a 28.8% clip in the Dominican Winter League. His walk rate is 6.8%.

Not great. Neither of those are good at all. League average, generally about 22% for strikeout rate, about 8% for walk rate. So he is worse than what we're used to in both of those categories. So, yeah, it's only 73 played appearance. I don't think you need to sound any alarm bells over 73 played appearances in the Dominican Winter League when Waller got very few reps at any level in 2024 because of how much time he spent on the injured list. But yeah, you look at these numbers and if you are looking for him to break out in the Dominican Winter League and really build some momentum going into 2024, maybe have a shot at and making the opening day roster, these numbers don't exactly push that narrative. I think it is likely that the Diamondbacks will at least start Lawler down in AAA in

2024 and then just wait for him to kind of prove himself at that level. He's had some success in AAA, but he really has not had all that many reps there at this stage in his career. So I think they want him to kind of get his feet under him at that level. And then hopefully we do see Jordan in the majors at some point in 2025. Well, and not only do the numbers reflect that, but Mike Hazen's comments kind of implied in his interview with Wolf and Luke. I got it right at that time that Lawler will open the year in the minors.

He said, I have the expectation that he will be on our team at some point next year, I hope. Yeah, it sounds like, yeah, Mike was asked about Lawler's role and he was not, he was not bullish, I wouldn't say. It wasn't like he was saying, oh, Lawler's going to play in AAA for all of 2025. But he said that this is also a direct quote from an offensive standpoint, consistency standpoint, there's obviously still room to grow here. And I think that's fair, right? Just looking at some of the numbers and the minors, given what he looked like in that

very, very small sample toward the end of the 2023 season when he did get a shot in the majors. This is a guy that the Diamondbacks want to bring to the majors and have stay there. They don't want to have to do the up and down thing. And so I think their goal for him in 2025 is, again, to have him probably open the year. in AAA and show that he can just destroy AAA pitching ideally and then bring him up to the majors and, you know, I don't know exactly what it'll look like, but with injuries and what happens over the course of a season, you figure there might be an opportunity in 2025 for Lawler to get some regular playing time.

It's crazy to watch the 2024 season and not immediately assume that the Diamondbacks are going to need all the able body that they could get. If he wouldn't have been injured in 2024, he would have been called up and utilized at some point. I'm certain of it, right? I mean, you had Blaze Alexander get a shot. You had Adrian Del Castillo get a shot. All these guys, they did a great job when they came up. But it was kind of a same thing, right?

Like the young guys come up. They get an opportunity, especially to fill in due to injury or due to, you know, maybe someone just not performing. And, you know, you see some good out of them. You see some flashes of brilliance. And you could say that with both Blaze and ADC throughout the season. But it's the consistency. And then you kind of see them come back down to Earth. And then unfortunately, you know, it goes on to the side of them being a below average player.

Right. So the Diamondbacks would much rather in those cases, especially when the guys come back and they're healthy, send these guys back down to Reno and allow them to continue playing every single day rather than having them sit on the bench. And it's the same thing with Jordan Lawler at this point. Gino Swares is their third baseman for 2025, period. And it's not to say he's going to play every game, but he's a fairly durable guy that does play a lot of games, and he doesn't really miss a lot of time.

Knock on wood, I need to knock on something. People will clip that and I'll remember that. But I'm just saying, like Gino has proven that he has the ability to play all 162 games. That'll never happen in a Tori Lavala lineup. But he will get a, you know, plenty of opportunity to start over there.

And as long as he remains healthy, the Diamondbacks hopefully should need too much relief over there at third base. There was a point, though, that Gino was playing so poorly that, they did have Blaze playing third base simply based on the fact that they needed to try to generate some offense. And that didn't go super great. Yeah. And Blaze is also part of this conversation, right? I know after he had some success early on in 2024, it was, it was really brutal for him after that point. You can understand why he didn't get a ton of opportunity down the stretch.

But he also is definitely a factor for this team in terms of in terms of their depth, still on the, on the 40-man roster. And I think we'll also get a look. You might actually see the Diamondbacks be more willing to bring Blaze Alexander to the majors in 2025 than Jordan Lawler, even if maybe their minor league numbers would tell a different story. Like, Blaze has already been in the majors. And I think you might be at a point with Blaze where you're more willing to have him

play in a utility type role where he's not getting everyday opportunities. The Diamondbacks have been very clear that they don't want that for Jordan Lawler. They want Jordan Lawler to come up and to be, if not a true everyday guy, pretty close to an everyday guy. It's just hard as a young player to really find your footing unless that's the situation you're in. And Lawler doesn't project as a utility player, right? He projects as someone who can play every day for you and maybe be very, very impactful at this level. So I think that's what they're going to prioritize. The Arizona Diamondbacks do currently have Jordan Lawler listed, or I guess I shouldn't

say the Diamondbacks do MLB Pipeline has Jordan Lawler listed as the Arizona Diamondbacks number one prospect as do all of the other prospect list basically and then going from there it's interesting because you you have some names that have kind of slid up into the top five and none of them are pitchers Jesse which might be a little bit of a concern for the Diamondbacks moving forward and maybe again that that might be the only reason why you you consider trading a guy like Zach Gallen that you might be able to increase your young pitching depth or your, you know, your prospect pitching versus, you know, having kind of the limited options that they have.

In the top 10, it's pretty much Gilbert Diaz and Uman Lynn as far as pitchers. And they are considered their number six and seven top prospects. But top five goes Jordan Lawler, followed by Drew Jones. Slade Caldwell, another Slade. Yeah, still lead the league in Slades. Another outfielder. Another short outfielder. We got Ryan Waldschmidt, a tall outfielder.

And then Tommy Troy rounding out in the top five. we talked about and we we've really seen Tommy Troy not to go back to the Arizona Fall League stuff but we've seen Tommy Troy really turn his season around and have a big season and I mean even as you just gave an update in that game he's contributing right now at a crucial time for this team to try to make the the championship down the stretch yeah yeah Tommy Troy is is going to be one of the most interesting prospects to follow in 2025 I'll be curious to see what level he starts at do the Dbacks have him go back to Hillsboro and try to really solidify him

himself at that level after a very much up and down 2024 or did they look at his last month or so of the season and say, hey, you really found it in Hillsborough toward the end of the year. Let's just bring you up to double A and have you start there in 2025 and see what kind of progress you can make. But you can still imagine a scenario where Tommy Troy is everything the Diamondbacks hoped you would be. You can be a guy who can play up the middle, maybe not a shortstop. It looks like it's probably going to be second base.

but even that has a lot of value. If you can be an above average hitter, you know, a regular guy every day at second base, that has that has a lot of value in the big league. So still feels like there's there's a wide range of outcomes here when it comes to Tommy Troy. Going back to the comments, Cam had a comment up. If you scroll back there, large intimate. He said that Varsho trade showed to expect the unexpected with Hazen. And I agree with that.

I also think, though, at the time we were talking quite a bit. about the surplus of outfielders that the Diamondbacks had. Yeah. And I mean, it feels a little bit like our conversation that we were having earlier where we're saying it feels, you know, a little bit like Alec Thomas or maybe Jake McCarthy might be names that the Diamondbacks are getting phone calls on. And based on what the return is for either one of those guys,

they might be considering to listen to that offer. I think the Varsho trade pool definitely, you know, showed that both teams could win it, but you kind of can't help but feel like the Diamondbacks came out on top. considering what happened to them with those players that they acquired from Toronto and how big of a role that both Lordus Gurriel Jr. And, you know, Gabby Moreno have had on this team and have played in there and them winning, right?

I mean, yeah, the Varshow has been great for Toronto, but you definitely couldn't say the same about the Blue Jays. Mike Hazen's made some really interesting trades the last few years. And based on that history, my gut is that we're going to see another interesting trade at some point over the offseason. And I don't know exactly what it's going to look like. Maybe it's trading for a back end reliever like a Ryan Helsley. Maybe it's trading for one of those first base options that I wrote about recently,

Nathaniel Lowe or a Josh Nailer. Maybe the debacks go that route to try to fill that vacancy at first base if Christian Walker does indeed go elsewhere. But Mike Hazen, yeah, if you're a debacks fan, you've been treated to some fascinating trades over the last few years. And a lot of them have gone in the Diamondbacks favor. Yeah. Well, and it's not just that they've gone in the Diamondbacks favor. You almost feel like when Mike Hazen, when he gets ticked off, Jesse, and when he gets like, we saw him in that final press availability of the season. Like Mike Hazen, it wasn't just dissatisfied.

He was a bit furious and, I mean, obvious. I mean, he basically kept saying the phrase, we should be in Milwaukee right now. Like, I think we heard that out of him at least more than once. I think that he's one of those guys that that brings out the best in him. I think he really is going to do everything he can to be all in on this year without mortgaging that future of this team and without going out there and giving up too much. It doesn't mean that they won't have to give up something though. And that goes back to our topic with Ryan Halsley where we talked about, you know,

the trade might involve someone like Alec Thomas that most of us do not want to ever see leave this organization, but right now might, you know, his value isn't super high based on his performance in 2024. And he could be a guy that even though he didn't, even though it's not the best time to trade him, even though it's not a high to sell him at right now, there might be teams that still see a lot of potential in Alex Thomas and might want him as a part of their organization. And again, it's all based on the return, right? I don't want, I don't want the Diamondbacks to do that for just one year of a closer like Helsley. But they do have. you know some options here especially going back to that top 30 prospect list and when you look at

the top you know top top five and three out of the five or outfielders you might you might consider listening to some offers on some of those guys yeah slate Caldwell actually based on his like size and and the way he swung the bat and and everything kind of reminded me quite a bit of dalton varshow oh 100 yeah he looks like he kind of looks like dalton marsha he's built like he's built like for sure. But yeah, I mean, again, it's just going to be interesting to see what happens. And it's, we don't have a lot of time where meetings are coming up. Jesse will be out there for the winter meetings in Dallas. And I think things will start cooking once that happens. I'm, I'm curious before we get out of here. Like if the Diamondbacks are going to make a trade this off season, they might not, they probably will not be able to satisfy all of their needs via trade. Right. You're probably going to have to split it up between trade and for

agency. So the question I have on my mind is if you only have one bullet to fire when it comes to a trade this off season, would you rather use it to bring in a bullpen guy and then maybe go free agency route to solve a first base issue and I guess a designated hitter issue as well? Or would you rather fire your trade assets off to get you a first basement and then go the free agency route for bullpen help instead? The DH, I, I don't imagine the Diamondbacks trading for a DH. So I guess I'm sort of casting that aside. Which of those is more compelling to you?

What's more compelling to me, I think, to trade for is a closer. Okay. And I feel that because even though they don't need a closer, you could argue that they don't need a closer. I just can't help but think about how many times, even without asking the question, without us bringing it up to the other relievers, without us, you know, asking like, hey, how big of an impact did Paul Seawald have on your season? You could just be like, hey, you guys are playing good. And they would just be like, yeah, it's all because we got Paul Seawald as a closer. It was just really weird how quick they were to admit that.

We also know that Seawald's leadership was a big part of why so many guys on this team liked him. We know that he had the whole, you know, vest ceremony after games and obviously was a guy that was vocal and supported his teammates quite a bit. And honestly brought a lot of ideas to the table to Tori to make things better. When I say that, I mean, even Seawald was the one that came to Tori and said, hey, sometimes we didn't take batting practice before a game when we were kind of like slumping like this. And it was him trying to help out the offense, right? Like so there's there's times where guys like that obviously offer more. And that could be a big reason why so many of the pitchers are quick to point to Seawald as the reason why everything turned around so fast. But it really does feel like having an elite closer if the Diamondbacks could get an elite closer is just critical to this team.

I mean, the bullpen arguably falls all in a line with that elite closer. I just know that they're going to need a first baseman too, right? So that's a very hard decision. Yeah, you have to solve both problems probably. But I think I agree with what you're saying. It feels like we talked about it the other day. There's some good options at first base. Yeah.

And the prices for those true back end relievers and free agency is so scary. Like, do you want to give Carlos Estavis three years? Do you want to give Tanner? Scott, four years. If you go the trade route, then you're going to give up some assets, no doubt, but you're not taking on nearly as much risk with that kind of investment. Well, we will have more on this tomorrow, and we will definitely have more on the conversation of the Diamondbacks potentially trading Alec Thomas or Jake McCarthy and what that would

mean for this organization. So make sure to join us at 1 p.m. for that show. In the meantime, you can follow us on Twitter. I am at cap underscore caveman with a K. Jesse is at Jesse and Friedman Large intimate Kevin Thomas is at Kev Tom Wrights. Of course our show is at PHNX underscore Dbacks but all roads do lead

to at PHNX underscore sports on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. We thank you guys so much for your time. We will see you tomorrow. We hope you all have a wonderful evening tonight and remember kids, baseball is fun but it is so much more fun when Kattel Marte wins all of the awards.