PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - POSTGAME: Blue Jays BATTLE BACK to Even World Series With Game 4 Win Over Dodgers

Episode Date: October 29, 2025

JOIN THE SUPPORTERS CLUB ➡️ https://tinyurl.com/yc6km2r4After an 18-inning marathon on Monday, the Blue Jays bounced back to even the World Series against the Dodgers at two games apiece. We break down the pitching performances, Vladdy’s leadership following the loss, and whether the Dodgers are asking too much of Shohei Ohtani. Plus, we examine how the marathon game and George Springer’s injury could shape the rest of the series. And we’re never letting Brad Paisley sing the national anthem at the World Series ever again.An ALLCITY Network ProductionSUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtubeALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsportsMERCH https://store.allcitynetwork.com/collections/phnx-lockerALLCITY Network, Inc. aka PHNX and PHNX Sports is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by the City of PhoenixPHNX Events: Get your tickets to PHNX events and takeovers here: https://gophnx.com/events/ALLCITY — including us here at PHNX — is teaming up with Big Brothers Big Sisters of America for an exciting three-year partnership. To learn more, visit https://www.bbbs.org/allcity/APS:  Find instant rebates, discounts and special offers on smart thermostats, energy-efficient appliances and more at https://marketplace.aps.com/default/heating-cooling/smart-thermostatsBranded Bills: Use code BBPHNX at https://www.brandedbills.com/ for 15% off your first order!Husband & Wife Law Team: If you’ve had a serious injury, Call The Husband & Wife Law Team first at 602-783-8841 or visithttps://husbandandwifelawteam.com/?utm_source=allcity-padcasts&utm_medium=digital-phx&utm_campaign=allcityShowNotesCrown Royal: Visit crownroyal.com/PurpleBagProject to learn more!Chicken N’ Pickle: Family friendly fun awaits! Visit chickennpickle.com to plan your visit today!Access Auto Insurance Agency of Arizona, LLC (Access Auto) is a renowned agency offering personal and commercial auto insurance options to Arizona residents. If you’re on the hunt for a new policy, call Access Auto today at 1-480-400-0546 or get a free insurance quote by visiting our website www.access-insurance.com.Visit https://www.macu.com/accounts/checking/mystyle-checking?cid=ea-PHNX-AZ-mystyleAugust2025-checking to learn more about their MyStyle Checking Accounts!bet365: https://www.bet365.com/hub/en-us/app-hero-banner-1?utm_source=affiliate&utm_campaign=usapp&utm_medium=affiliate&affiliate=365_03485317 Use the code PHNX365 to sign up, deposit $10 and bet $5 to get $150 in bonus bets!Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and physically located in AZ.  If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-NEXT-STEP, text NEXTSTEP to 53342 or visit https://problemgambling.az.gov/Gametime: Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply.Shady Rays: Head to https://shadyrays.com and use code: PHNX for 35% off polarized sunglasses. Try for yourself the shades rated 5 stars by over 300,000 people.Circle K: Join Inner Circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today! Head to https://www.circlek.com/store-locator to find Circle Ks near you!Monarch: Use Monarch to get control of your overall finances with 50% off your first year at https://www.monarchmoney.com/phnxWhen you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Well, the Blue Jays win and tie the world series up at two games apiece in game four. And I know it's not really what we do necessarily for them. We're turning on the cactus light. There it is. We are talking about the Dodgers losing, Blue Jays winning, and more in 30 seconds. Don't you go anywhere. Another edition of the PHNX Blue Jays podcast live from Studio K, presented by our friends. Circle K. It is I,

your mayor of Canada, aka Jerich Montaia. Glad to have you guys here. Glad to be not alone tonight. Of course, we got our guy Damon Pooch, aka Damon Dog, on the ones and two's, bark, bark, A, over there, bark, bark to the

Damon Dog. And also, of course, not alone tonight, joining us for his expertise and to save my voice a little bit after our three-hour watch-along. It is the one, the only, thunderstick, Jesse Friedman from Snake's territory. Jesse, what a game we witness tonight and what a win by the Blue Jays when, quite frankly.

They needed it. Their backs were up against the wall. I know you don't say any game is a must win unless it's an actual must win game, but it felt like after the 18-inning marathon we experienced yesterday that the Blue Jays really did need to figure out a way to not let this series get the three to one, and they did that with the win. well first of all Derek i i think it's it's great that you did the watch along today as opposed to yesterday when uh it was it would have been a bit of a long night uh you would have gotten you would

have done to you would have done two watch alongs basically basically too yeah it was a double header essentially yesterday for sure yeah and i i don't do well jesse you know very you know more than most people how early i go to bed so i'm sure you understand what a predicament I was in just in general staying awake to watch that game. I knew deep down in my heart that the Dodgers were going to win it, and they did, but today definitely felt like things were up in the air because of that game. The impact, and we're going to talk about that, the impact that game three could potentially have on the rest of the series is huge,

but tonight we see the Blue Jays get a win by a score of 6 to 2 when they, quite frankly, needed it absolutely the most. And now this series definitely feels like we're, back to even. I mean, they kind of get home field advantage a little bit back with this win and, you know, and things are back on track for this being a, uh, uh, and pretty epic series. I think I agree with you about last night's game where it sort of just felt like we were all waiting helplessly for one of the Dodgers big time hitters to eventually hit a walk off home run. And sure enough, it happened. Freddie Freeman basically just put all of us out of our misery as we

were waiting for that game to end. It kind of felt like that's the way that the things were going to go. The Dodgers to their credit. I mean, their bullpen was was outstanding. Will Klein wound up pitching basically just as much as Tyler Glass now did. It was basically the Eric Lauer versus Will Klein game more so than it was Max Jersey against Tyler Glass now. But yeah, tonight, I mean, sure, maybe I wouldn't use the word the word must win.

But you know what? I basically would use the phrase must win because, you know, being down three to one to the Dodgers. I mean, it's not impossible. But it would have been just an enormous hole for the Blue Jays to climb out of. And on the other hand, by winning this game, as you said, the Blue Jays effectively have home field advantage in the series. The series is certainly heading back to Toronto. And I'm in credit to the Blue Jays for responding after, you know, I'm,

I mean, losing a game like they lost last night, being able to bounce back from that without George Springer in the lineup, who course is one of their best players. Really, really impressive stuff from Toronto tonight. Sean is a masochist. He wanted 20 innings last night so bad. I don't think any of us wanted that. But I will say that regardless of the outcome, it's hard not to call yesterday's game one of the best baseball games we've ever seen.

Right. And again, I think it just has to do with the. back and forth nature of it. Once that game was tied, neither team wanted to give in. Neither team wanted to make a mistake. And neither team really did, even when they did make mistakes, they were able to find their way back. Tonight, a different story. Tonight, it felt like after watching these two teams duke it out last night, that we had no idea what we were going to see. And this felt more like, at least if you're rooting against the Dodgers or rooting for the Blue Jays, whatever way you want to word that.

You definitely felt like tonight's game was more of what you would hope that we would see out of the Toronto Blue Jays. They got solid starting pitching, solid relief pitching, a great night pitching wise to hold this Dodgers team to just two runs. But more importantly, you know, their stars step up. Vladdy Guerrero hits a huge home run that gives them the lead. And, you know, they were able to tack on, you know, four more runs to secure the victory. and, you know, take away or even the series of two games apiece. But it definitely felt like what we might see more

out of a Dodgers team being, having weaknesses or being susceptible to a loss like this in the postseason. Otani was outstanding. He was amazing once again. And it's more incredible that he did it after last night's marathon than anything, right? The fact that he was standing there,

making Damon sick and me wish he was on any team I rooted for by, you know, showing his pitching motion at like 1 o'clock in the morning in the clubhouse when they're talking about him having a game that day. But again, it was more about the Dodgers or the Blue Jays being able to do enough offensively and then really being able to tack on against the Dodgers bullpen on this night where they were uncommonly good last night. Yeah, I mean, I think a ton of credit goes to Shane Beaver on the on the Blue Jays side. I mean, after the marathon of yesterday's game, I mean, you always love it when your starter

goes deep in the playoffs, but you especially love it when you just pitched 18 innings of baseball the night prior. Your bullpen's in a bit of a tough spot. And, of course, that was the start of three games in a row, you know, back to back to back to back days in Los Angeles. So just enormous for Toronto to get some length out of Shane Bieber today, five and a third innings. He was really good.

And I think it's easy to forget, Derek. Like, Shane Bieber had Tommy John surgery in April of 2024, just a little bit over a year ago. If you want to kind of dream on what Corbyn Burns could contribute to the Diamondbacks next season, I know Bieber had his surgery a couple months earlier in the year. But, yeah, I mean, Shane Bieber's doing it. Like, he's pitching in the World Series. Maybe he isn't the same guy he was a few years ago in Cleveland.

But, I mean, he was more than enough. tonight against obviously a really good Dodgers offense. Surrendering only one run on four hits. He allowed some base runners early on, but he was able to strand those runners and just, again, get himself out of any jam that he was in, navigate those troubled waters and give them, you know, five in a third innings pitch.

We haven't seen starters go really long this postseason, Yamamoto being the very special unicorn there in the case of this particular postseason. But yeah, I mean, overall, you kind of felt like if this game did get down to being close and it being a bullpen game that you did feel like the Blue Jays were going to be in a better position than the Dodgers. But honestly, like we used it's the inconsistency from the Dodgers bullpen is what they've seen all year long. And that's something I know that frustrates many people that that root for the Dodgers, right? It's the fact that you can see that bullpen be as good as it was last night, but then tonight have a night like they did where they really couldn't seem to go out there

and hold the Blue Jays in a similar fashion when this game was still, you know, relatively close. So again, it just feels like that ramifications of that third, you know, that 18-inning marathon there in game three is going to last beyond the Dodgers being able to just win that game. I feel like it's going to last throughout the rest of the last. of the series. And tonight, quite frankly, the Blue Jays were able to hold the Dodgers and use less pitchers. So they were able to, you know, kind of save themselves some arms there in the pen. It would have been nice if Jeff Hoffman hadn't even had to warm up towards the end of this game. Things got maybe a little more interesting in the ninth inning than you would have liked.

But, yeah, Hoffman still didn't have to pitch in this game, which was a win. Obviously, a number of other Blue Jays relievers did did get days off. They still had to use Luis Varlane toward the end. So, so not everybody. It's going to be hard to win any game in the playoffs without using at least a couple of your key relievers. But yeah, I mean, this is setting up in a fascinating way, Derek. I mean, our next game, we're looking at Trey Yasevage again against Blake Snell.

Yosevage is such a fascinating story to me, having made his first start of the season in high A. and he has three, he had three major league regular season starts. And now he's made more starts than that in the postseason. And he's about to take on Blake Snell and, of course, a very pivotal game five. So series only gets more and more interesting from here. But yeah, I mean, just huge for the Blue Jays to be able to come out of here with a win and do it in a fairly comfortable fashion where they didn't have to really tax the back end of that bullpen.

Well, let's take a look at the count from tonight's game there, thanks to our friends there, Desert Financial Credit Union. Final score on this one, 6 to 2. Toronto Blue Jays out hit the Dodgers 11 to 6. Again, offensively, the Dodgers looked like a team that was, you know, dealing with a hangover, dealing with that late night, you know, 18-inning game. Meanwhile, the Blue Jays, not much better, but definitely more productive offensively. three for 11 with runners in scoring position where the Dodgers were 0 for 5. Blue Jays had two extra base hits, including that Vladimir Guerrero home run.

Dodgers just had the one double. And then expected batting average was in the Dodgers favorite. 272, 256. They were hitting the ball hard. But they were finding a lot of gloves, a lot of defenders out there. And just, again, you know, credit, like you said to Shane Bieber, who when he did allow some base runners, was able to get out of it without much damage being done. also Chris Bassett I mean

yeah 36 year old Chris Bassett who has turned into somehow one of the most reliable bullpen arms this postseason he's he's been incredible so far during the postseason

in five games he has not allowed to earn run and he has eight strikeouts with a 0.30 whip Jesse pretty damn good from the vet yeah that's that's bonkers i mean for him to go one inning in the game last night and then two more innings today really helps save the the rest of the arms there that was just so huge this blue jays pitching

staff as a whole derrick i mean i on paper like it it doesn't make a ton of it doesn't look all that great on paper frankly but it's just kind of working like it's doing just enough like Shane Beaver has a 3-5-70 R.A. in the playoffs and Trey Yosevic is, you know, kept the Blue Jays in games, had some really big moments. Kevin Gosman has pitched pretty well. Also, Max Scherzer has had his moments and at least was able to kind of keep the, the team afloat for a while in game three. And this bullpen. He's a maniac, Jesse. Like, I feel like this team is a very nice team, uh, polite people that live in Canada and are around polite people. But the politeness of the Canadians will not change mad Max. He will always be who he is. And that was no,

it was demonstrated when they were interviewing his teammates, asking them if they go talk to Max on game day. And apparently when Max Scherzer has his headphones on, that means that at that point of the day, you're done talking to Max, pretty much the rest of the day, which I found to be hilarious. And reminded me a little bit of what I've heard about Randy Johnson, for sure. Like a lot of people were like, yeah, you did not talk to Randy Johnson on days that he pitched. But taking a step back, though, Trey Yassavage, like you said, kind of reminds me and I brought it up on a show a little bit of Philip Abner, right? A guy here for the Diamondbacks that was at one point pitching for Hillsborough and then found himself in a game against this Los Angeles Dodgers team, striking out

show Aotani and striking out Freddie Freeman. So like, it's amazing how fast the progressions can be for some of these guys. And quite frankly, I know that you and I will probably get into it at some point down the road. But as far as 2026 is concerned, the Diamondbacks are going to need some guys to step up and make that big leap probably pretty quickly in order to fill some of the, you know, holes that they have that they're not going to be able to necessarily go out there and spend to fill. So I wouldn't be surprised to see more of that with, you know, pitching prospects kind of being expedited in the pipeline here for the debacks. That's true.

I mean, it'll be really interesting to see this off season, how the debacks balance, like giving opportunities to those young guys while also maybe trying to fill in the gaps a little bit, trying to bring in some veteran players so that you're not expecting too much from some of those young guys. It was great to see some of those players step up, but you know, you want to give them the appropriate amount of challenge and responsibility going into next year. A lot of that, of course, is just how much money are the debaq's willing to spend this off season? And I don't really know the answer to that question, Eric.

We'll see how things turn out. I don't think there is an answer. Like, again, they have surprised us. They probably don't know either. Yeah. I'm sure, you know, it's like a lot of things, right? Like when I take my daughter to Disneyland, I'm thinking, God, I hope I don't spend more than, you know, $500 on a bunch of.

crap. And sure enough, there's no way in a million years I'm only going to spend $500 on crap, Jesse. I am going to spend $15 to $2,000 on crap. And I know it. I can set the budget all I want, but I know it's inevitable that I'm going to buy all the mouse ears and all the popcorn buckets that they have, especially if they light up, right? So I don't believe entirely that the Diamondbacks are set on this, you know, budget that requires them scaling back for next season. I think it's something Ken Kendrick said in the moment because, quite frankly, he just like so many of us were disappointed with the way that last season went. And it's hard to sit there and be like, well, we're going to spend more money because that worked in 24 and 25, right? I mean, they went out and got the best starting pitchers available on the market, both of those off seasons.

And unfortunately, for very different reasons, neither of those signings you could say really worked out, right? it's unfortunate for them that that's the direction it went and there's nobody that you can blame for Corbyn's injury. However, it still means that it didn't really work out, right, overall. At least it might work out by the end, like you said, he might be a beast when he returns. But it's also very much one of those things where you could say that the disappointment of those signings not working out, not spending money makes you might make you as an owner maybe think, I'm not doing this again. I'm not going out there and spending money just for this team to miss the playoffs and for them to disappoint me like they did, right? But that could be a temporary feeling. That could be just a feeling of

anger and disappointment in a moment. So you say that. But next thing you know, you are spending money and you are trying to do everything you can to improve. You know, maybe Mike Hazen comes back and says, reasonably, we have too many things we need to accomplish in order to make this team competitive in 2026, right? And we know this team doesn't want to go through a rebuild process, especially where they're at with Mike Hayes and with Tori LaVola with all of this. Like 2026, even though it's a terrible year for it, is very much a we got to go all in and we got to try to win season for the front office, for the coaching staff for a lot of players on this team, right? So I think that all factors in. Watching these guys, though, in the postseason, watching the Dodgers and watching the Blue Jays, especially in that 18 inning marathon yesterday, makes me think that this 2025 team wasn't ready for this.

This 2025 team couldn't have hung in an 18- inning game like this. And it's not to attack them. It's just to say, based on what we saw all year long, they did not have the players. They did not have the pieces to be competing with teams like the Blue Jays and the Dodgers in either of these teams. And that's the reason, you know, again, that's the reason why the Dodgers and Blue Jays both have such high payrolls.

they do have those pieces and they did spend the money to get them. And that is something that as much as Ken Kendrick and the Diamondbacks might not want to do, they might not want to spend more. They're kind of going to have to. Like it's just one of those things. Like they just don't have enough money to scale back their, you know, that what they spent in 2025 and also fix their problems for 2026. I've been, I think my eyes have been open the past.

couple years at what Ken Kendrick is is willing to do in certain situations. Like if you had told me at the beginning of last offseason that they were going to come away with Corbin Burns, I mean, I would have thought you were, you were crazy. You would have institutionalized me, Jesse. We wouldn't have, we would have been like, I'm not going to do this with this guy. He's talking insane things. He said they're going to get Corbyn Burns. Like, 100%.

Like, I completely agree with you. There's no way I thought that that was going to happen either. And so it makes me think. it. And we've also had situations the last couple years where going into the off season, we kind of had a certain idea of what the debacks might have to spend. You know, maybe some numbers were floated out there early in the off season. And then when all was said and done, like the past couple of years, the debacks have wound up spending more than at least what I expected they would spend going into the off season. So I think it's, I mean, I think it's possible. I think the

D-backs are maybe willing to be opportunistic if situations fall in their lap. If there's a guy like Corbyn Burns, who's who's an awesome pitcher and just really wants to be with his family in Arizona, you know, I think the D-backs are willing to entertain things like that. At the same time, I mean, we have heard, I think, from both Derek Hall and Ken Kendrick at this point, they've pretty openly just said that the payroll is going to be lower. We don't know how much lower. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're really cutting, you know, significantly going into next year. But the Diamondbacks ran a really, a really significant payroll, relatively speaking, this past year. I think it is likely that we're going to see them cut back. Maybe the debacks only have about 30 to maybe 40 million

dollars to spend this offseason. It's going to be hard to fill all the gaps they have on their roster with that money. Makes me think about the trade market. Derek. and how that might factor in to their plans when all is said and done. I mean, it seems like that's probably the only way to really fill all these holes is if you're pretty aggressive on that front. Right. And that's going to require probably moving some pretty top prospects and not just Alec Thomas and Jake McCarthy.

I think that's the thing that a lot of fans need to kind of be prepared to deal with here that, you know, even a name like Ryan Waldschmidt might be involved. And I hate that, but I'm just saying like if they really, really want to get aggressive, like you said, and try to improve this team specifically for the 2026 season, that's the kind of piece that it's going to take. Or Cattel Marte, right? And that's not even a discussion I want to get into right now. But we do have to give our King Jay out to somebody, Jesse. And as you know, we are Blue Jay's podcast around here. So we are giving it to Blattie Jr., who was two for four tonight with two RBIs, a home run.

a walk. He's also more adorable than Shohei Otani. We discovered that while we were looking through pictures to do this thumbnail and this King Jay image. And we can confirm now that Vladimir Guerrero Jr. is in fact more precocious and more adorable at playing baseball than Shohei O'Donnie. Oh, did Shohei make it into this image? He kind of did a little bit. Oh, my goodness. I didn't even realize that I accidentally fit him in there at the bottom. Man. Man, that's what a coincidence. What a coincidence indeed, Damon. What a coincidence indeed. But we are definitely not done talking about this game. We're going to take a quick break. And on the other side of this break, we're going to discuss more about the pitching matchup, how showy Otani did, and how he's still

a very magical unicorn despite the fact that we hate him. It's like you can, you can, like a unicorn can also hate it. It can be annoying. It can get up early in the morning and make a lot of noise. It can pop your tire. Like just, I'm just envisioning a unicorn as like a neighbor, Jesse. You can scratch your car, do all sorts of stuff. You're like, oh, it's cool that it's a unicorn on day one, but by day 51, you're like, I am sick of that goddamn unicorn. So we're going to talk about that unicorn being Shohei Otomi on the other side of this break. Don't you guys go anywhere?

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the final game in Los Angeles this postseason. Dodgers lose this one by a score of six to two. And Shoya Otani, quite frankly, was amazing on short rest. I say that because his counterpart, Shane Bieber, the one place that you could argue is he did not have to play yesterday in that baseball game. And the stuff that Otani continues to do, I think never ceases to amaze any of us any longer, whether it's an amazing defensive play, whether he's able to go out there and give, you know, the Dodgers six innings, even though he gave up four runs on six hits.

Like it wasn't a great night. He still struck out six and walked one. And those runs were kind of the majority of those runs were scored on him. you know, once he kind of left the game there, but you feel overall like, again, the Dodgers have kind of been playing a little, a little bit with fire there, right? Like, they ask Otani to play a lot, and then they also ask him to come in and be incredible in these big pivotal games. It's just, it's so amazing to me because as I said on our watch-along, pitchers, starting pitchers are such delicate things.

They're such delicate little fragile things that can only pitch once every five days. And the only time you can ask them to like come out of the bullpen is once a year during the World Series or an ALCS where you smash the glass and do it in the emergency situation like we did there with Randy Johnson one time. But it's just incredible what they asked this guy to do and what he's able to do for them, quite frankly. only just DHS, but still it's, in the instance of like yesterday, the preparation, playing in that long game, being a part of it, being on base as often as he was, right? Like having to still, it's not like he was just going up there and taking hacks and striking out and going back to the dugout. Like he was getting walked short, but then he was on the base path and he's trying to

score a very critical run in a tied ball game. Like, it is a lot that's asked of him. And again, it could be one of the Dodgers' weaknesses here in the World Series against the Blue Jays. In retrospect, it feels to me like the Dodgers signing Shohei was so inevitable. I'm kind of kicking myself forever thinking that the Dodgers weren't going to do this. Because frankly, the Dodgers front office is smart and they're able to identify elite talent. And Shohei Otani is the epitome of that on both sides of the baseball. I mean, it's absolutely outrageous.

The man reached base nine times yesterday and then went out. And yeah, this wasn't his best game by any means. But he still gave the Dodgers six innings. He still had six strikeouts. His fastball topped out at 99 miles an hour. I mean, he really was like you could argue, Shohei was the most impressive player on the field today, even though the Dodgers didn't win and he wasn't all that great.

Like just like other. Vladi Jr. was not going to be able to go out there and give the Toronto Blue Jays six innings, right? And it's no dis, it's not, you know, casting him aside or anything. Vladi obviously was, was awesome and is an amazing, amazing player. But, yeah, what Shohay is doing is absolutely outrageous. And I know there was a movement for a brief time. Like maybe should Shohay just forget the pitching thing with the injuries and whatnot? Like, should you just focus on hitting and being great at that?

Just as a baseball fan in general, I am so glad that the Dodgers did not do that, that we're getting to see Shohei on both sides of the ball. I know people here in the chat are maybe disgusted by watching Shohei doing what he's doing. But the reality is it is just absolutely unbelievable what he's accomplishing right now. I don't think we've had a comment since Derek started talking positively about showhead. Yeah, it brought the whole chat to those screeching holes. screeching off. Like, everybody's like, oh, yeah. There's no more people watching the show any longer.

They've all abandoned us. To be fair, I'm right there. I mean, I'm right there with the chat. Checked out. I think I fell asleep. He took his headphones off and I saw him get up and like check his watch a couple of times. Left the room. I mean, again, again, it's what I was saying about the Dodgers.

The Dodgers have earned the right based on how good they are to be hated, right? Two championships, even in five years is special in the, in the game. of baseball right now. You are not, there's, there's teams that aren't able to win one ever or even appear in one, let alone appear in the World Series as often as the Dodgers have over this particular stretch and win as many as they have. And if they win this one, then it's hard not to definitely describe them as one of the most elite baseball teams in this particular era of baseball, right? But because of that, they have earned the right to be hated. No matter how much I say they're a likable bunch of guys because I still feel that.

I talked about, you know, of course, Moogie Betts being this, he's, he's the problem, Damon, Jesse and Damon too. Damon and I already told this too. Damon knows. He's the problem, Jesse, because he is the one that befriends the other players and gets them to want to come over to the Dodgers

showing is obviously the problem because these baseball players growing up that are elite themselves are going to want to go play with Autani because they've worshipped him since they were young and they are going to get to live their childhood dream by going to play with him. But it's Mooki Betts that's going to keep them getting players in their pipeline with his podcast

and his nice, he's so nice and everything, right? But yeah, I mean, they deserve the hate they get. And Otani, in a way, deserves it for how incredibly good he is. He is a generational player in a sport like this where if you are not a fan of his team, you probably are going to start to hate him. But you have to, no matter how much you hate him, appreciate him for what an incredible baseball player he truly is.

And for the reason why, the reason why he generates so much hate isn't because of his attitude. He's a little baby angel. He's one of the sweetest people alive, allegedly. David, meanwhile, will tell you that he's a criminal that should be locked up. But it's because of how good he is, right? And what we're seeing is special. He's running the operation. But it's, yeah, we've said that he's the head of Yakuza.

That's a whole other thing. But I will say, though, that once again, even with, the Dodgers and all their success and everything, they might be running a little thin now at this point, right? And again, it might be that same thing. Like, yes, watching Otani was incredible today, but he still went 0 for three today at the plate with just the walk instead of what he contributed yesterday.

He had two strikeouts today, right? Not just Otani. The entire lineup seemed like they were tired. Like the entire Dodgers lineup definitely seemed like they were hungover, like celebrating the win last night might have been a little, might maybe gone on a little bit too long, right? Meanwhile, after the game,

Vladimir Guerrero Jr. was talking about coming into the clubhouse, his teammates hanging their head low and him having to remind them that, you know, this isn't over. There's still two more games to be won by the Dodgers and we still definitely have a chance. And my favorite part about it is that Vladdy told them,

turn the music back up. If you want to listen to music, let's listen to music. You know, like this is something you and I have experienced in the clubhouse where the moods couldn't be more different from a loss to a win. And that's just during the regular season. You walk in during a loss and it's miserable, but you walk into a win. There's still shaving cream on the floor. The music is blaring so loud that we can't even attempt to get video.

And the vibes are high, right? And I think that like what Vladdy did was very important last night for this team to come out with, you know, the energy that they had today. The dynamics, I imagine, were interesting. Like, yesterday was such a deeply emotional game and deeply emotional win for the Dodgers that I'm sure in the back of their minds, they're thinking, you know, the job isn't finished. We've only, we're just up two to one at this point. There's a long way to go. But I wonder if from the Dodgers standpoint, maybe there was an element of like,

it was hard to sort of control your emotions. Like that game felt bigger than just winning one out of the four games that you need to win in order to actually win the whole world series. And so maybe there was a bit of an emotional letdown for them today coming off of that, that they just weren't quite as locked in as they could have been. I'm just speculating on that front. I mean, maybe Shane Bieber was just really good. But yeah, I mean, the Dodgers had one extra base hit all night.

and it took until the ninth inning against Luis Varland for that to happen. So it was a it was and even I mean, obviously the Dodgers struggled to score for for much of the game yesterday as well as the Blue Jays did too. So we have seen a bit of a lull here in the Dodgers offense, you know, the last 18 innings or so would be interesting to see if that continues the rest of the way. Well, Sean in the chat says, I feel like everyone thought that game last night swung everything in the day. Dodgers favor and that they would just cakewalk their way to a title. And I agree. I agree. I think that was the sentiment today. I think we had a feeling of despair being a Blue Jays podcast that we were here not going to get to watch our wonderful team from the North celebrate. But I mean, again, it's, it's this is how a series goes. This is why this is so good right now. And again,

we're going to maybe talk about it in a second here, but we're going to talk about the game three ramifications and what we think that this could do for the remainder of the series for sure. But in this particular game, it was once again the weaknesses of the Dodgers, right? Otani being asked to maybe do too much. And then that bullpen, Jesse, once they got to that bullpen, and Anthony Bonda, former Arizona Diamondback and Blake Trinen got in there. They just failed to stop the bleeding. And quite frankly, it's something that the Dodgers have seen quite a few times this year.

their bullpen not be able to really keep a game from getting out of control once the starter has been removed from it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is, it is really difficult for, for a team to throw as many different relievers as, as you did yesterday and then bounce back and suddenly, suddenly try to try to fit the pieces together. Especially when their track record hasn't been that good this season, right? Like, their relievers, quite frankly, were shockingly good last night. The game planned Dave Roberts put together throughout that. I mean, as much as we said earlier,

I was waiting for the Dodgers to inevitably walk it off and win it. I really was just surprised as the game continued to go on that the Dodgers still had relievers that could go out there and keep this thing tied. And quite frankly, not just keep it tied, but like the Blue Jays weren't really getting many even scoring opportunities or base runners. The Dodgers, meanwhile, had quite a few throughout, you know,

that stretch, but the blue, Blue Jays were able to get out of it. Meanwhile, the relievers last night were awesome. It's just, this is a problem with that Dodgers bullpen is consistency. And also, yes, like you said, being asked to do that last night and then being asked to come back out here in another pivotal game that was close and keep it close late in the game. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine what it's what it was like yesterday when it's just bullpen chairs and no actual people. standing in the bullpen. I wonder

like what do you do if you're a bullpen coach at that point? Like I imagine your job's done. You just go like hang out in the dugout with everything else. But you like there are weird rules right because I remember them saying at one point when they were talking about Sean Larkin and maybe this was just overall

on the field. But I remember them specifically saying they could have only so many like only so many uniforms in the dugout. And so I don't know like, sorry, bullpen coach, max capacity. Keep your ass out there. I don't care if there's nobody out there.

Play with a squirrel or something. Figure it out. You don't have games on your phone? Get candy crush. Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe that's what it was. I do think, I mean, coming into the series, it was clear that the bullpen was going to be a big weakness for the Dodgers.

Or we at least suspected that was going to be their undoing if something went wrong for them in the series. And we have seen that. I mean, despite what happened in the game yesterday, that was at least part of the story here today, as you mentioned, Anthony Banda, not having a great night. And the Dodgers bullpen on the hole has been kind of spotty. I wouldn't call the group reliable by and large.

And that is, I think, going to be one of the key differences. You know, one of the key X factors in this series moving forward is which of these bullpins is better the rest of the way? Are the Dodgers able to get enough length out of their starters so that they don't have to rely on that bullpen all that much? They can kind of just stick with their couple of key guys at the back end. Or are the Blue Jays able to continue to get to that bullpen a little bit earlier and force the Dodgers to use all these different guys?

I suspected going into the playoffs that eventually that issue would bite the Dodgers really hasn't up to this, up to this point where they're playing Toronto, but we're starting to see that become an issue for them. And it was, you know, it was a big seventh inning. It felt like the game ended at that point. It was fairly competitive and close. And then, you know, they have this seismic seventh inning where they score four runs to really busted open.

Otani gets pooled. You got Varsho contributing. Big Earn Clement, still can't say enough about what that guy has done for this Toronto on the AJ's team this off season. And then Andre Semenez, he singles in a run. So, yeah, overall, they were just, they were able to knock in some runs, get some key hits there and put together that big inning that they needed to to kind of put this thing away.

I was still nervous late, Jesse. I was still very nervous late because of watching the Diamondbacks bullpen for entirely too long. I did not believe even a six two lead was close, six one lead was close, any of that. but they did lock it down and got the job done. And again, the Blue Jays bullpen, right, solid, solid performance tonight. And it just feels overall like things are shifting a little bit. Maybe not shifting so much in the Dodgers direction,

but I kind of agree with the sentiment that after last night's win, it was over in my head. And no moment was where it was more over than the loss of George Springer in game three. and we're going to talk about that and a few other things on the other side of this break. So don't you guys go anywhere. You're watching the pH next time in that show. Well, Rally House is your go-to spot

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Terms, conditions, and exclusions do apply. Shout out to LaModena. All right. That one was for Damon there. That's a deep cut. That's a deep cut. Inside baseball. Yeah. Game three marathon, though, Jesse.

Just kind of crazy, like I said earlier. I know it didn't end the way I particularly wanted it to, but it was hard for me not to acknowledge that it was just simply an amazing baseball game. You know, just really what baseball at its highest level with the highest stakes on the line is all about, and it was very cool. It lasted six hours and 39 minutes tied for the longest game by innings in World Series history. And unfortunately, the Dodgers did win it by a score of six to five. but just overall you can't help but take a look at everything that happened and again like I said earlier in the show wonder what the lasting ramifications are this might be a situation for the Dodgers where they truly won the battle but might not end up winning the war due to how much the battle cost them how how much the battle exhausted them from that point forward whereas this Blue Jays team seems still fairly energized and ready to go overall. And that's still kind of surprising to me,

considering the Dodgers had a longer layoff coming into the World Series than the Blue Jays did. Yeah, that's interesting. I'm not entirely sure which of these teams would have felt the effects of that more. I mean, I guess both of them. You play a baseball game that long, it's probably going to wear on you. But yeah, I'm not. I don't know how I feel about the best baseball game of all time,

a sort of sort of discourse. I feel like, I mean, I definitely cannot say it was boring because it certainly was not that. It was a World Series game. But let's face it, like nobody scored for a long time, like multiple hours. Basically over an entire baseball game. It was like an entire baseball game went by with no runs being scored.

Right, right. So, I mean, it was still a great watch. I mean, what an unbelievable game. But I think, like, in my head, what makes a truly dramatic, amazing, amazing baseball game is if one team puts up two or three in the top of the 10th, and then the other team matches it in the bottom of the 10th. You know, you have like some back and forth that's kind of happening along the way. I'm not, yeah, I definitely do not miss the ghost runner. like I don't want the ghost runner in in the playoffs don't give me that I would have rather had what we had yesterday then you know there were a couple of times where I was like

maybe the ghost runner isn't so bad that's fair I mean I understand people feeling that way too it would have probably saved us from you know we might have had two hours more of sleep if the ghost runner was a thing. You're not wrong. Well, the Diamondbacks, yes, as somebody noted, Sean said in 2001, I was thinking of the one in 2013 when the Diamondbacks beat the Philadelphia Phillies,

12 to 7 and 18 innings. And that was, once again, in Philadelphia. And you're right, I guess to a degree. I think what's fascinating about a game like yesterday is the fact that no matter what, you know, what these superstars can do, what these individual players can do that somehow the managers,

the pitchers, everything lined up to keep this game tied and to keep runs from scoring for as long as it did, which is a very difficult thing to accomplish in baseball. There comes a point where even as a manager that wants to say intentionally walk Shohei Otani

every time he comes up, you're unfortunately put into a situation where you really don't want to walk him because of the bases having runners on or whatever the case may be, right? Any single mistake, any single runner in scoring position with a fly ball with less than two outs that goes to the outfield could have ended that game at any point. So I just, I think that that's, that's, that's what

screamed great game to me is that that part of it defensively was almost like a great heavyweight fight where it was just one, you know, one inning after the next where these, these teams were able to, you know, get, get runners on or change out their, you know, reliever for another guy and have that guy come in and hold the game still scoreless. Like, it was impressive. Yet you couldn't help but watch it and realize like, my God, this is only game three of the World Series. And both of these teams are just down to nothing. They're down to like stems and seeds at the bottom of their bullpen, Jesse. There was nothing left for either. of these teams to the point where, like you said,

it essentially did turn into essentially a start by two of their relievers that had to go out there and pitch as long as they did. I just did find myself going several times, every time the game went later going, my God, what is this? What does this mean for the rest of this series? You know, what does this mean for both of these teams? And maybe winning it wasn't the best thing because you do get on kind of a high after winning a very lengthy baseball game

like that and you still have two more games that you have to win before the thing is said and done. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I guess only only the Dodgers really have a feel for how they reacted to that game and whether maybe that impacted their performance in this game tonight. I do, you know, I do think on the Blue Jay's side, there are a lot of different players who deserve credit for for them being right in the thick of this series after four games. I mean, the way that Toronto's offense has carried them, not just in this series, but in the playoffs as a whole,

I mean, the Blue Jays have played 15 postseason games, and their team slash line is 285, 348, 475. Like, that's insane for them to be hitting that way as a team up to this point. Yeah. And I know the offense was a little bit lean for them, for a good while. They played two nine-inning baseball games, basically,

and they didn't score a single run in the second half of that. But on the whole, I mean, you just feel like this Blue Jays offense is going to be able to deliver time and time again. And it's made me think, I think my view of starting pitching, the importance of starting pitching in the playoffs has kind of lessened recent years. I mean, after seeing what the Dodgers were able to do last year, even though their starting pitching, frankly, was kind of a disaster throughout the postseason last year.

And yet the Dodgers still went through and, uh, and, and of course, won the World Series. And then this year, you know, what we're seeing on the Dodgers side, of course, I mean, their starting pitching has been spectacular. But Toronto has gotten to this point really just because their pitching has done just enough and their offense has been awesome. And if your offense can have the depth that this Blue Jays lineup does, where it's not just Vlad and George Springer when healthy, but it's also Addison Varger and it's Ernie Clement and it's Dalton Varshot.

The list goes on. I mean, that can really carry you, that can really carry you in the playoffs. And the bottom nine, you know, the six through nine hitters, man. I mean, they just contribute. I know Isaiah Kenner Falafel didn't today. but Andres Semenas, big, big, Earnedog, Clement, right?

Dalton Varsha, like these are the guys that really are making a difference because they're getting on base and they're making themselves available when Vladimir Guerrero Jr. comes up, when Lucas comes up,

when some of these other hitters come up. I mean, Bo Bouchet, I feel like, is still trying entirely too hard because of his layoff to get back on track. But once he settles down, I think he's going to contribute more than he already is. And you brought up George Springer.

He is a big X factor here in all of this. George Springer, again, that loss, because in a way, like Vladian and George have been leading the way, you know, offensively, it felt like the loss with his oblique situation in yesterday's game was it, honestly. And that was long before we got into those extra innings. It just felt like a devastating moment. Similar to when I saw Jackson Truroo leave the game for the Brewers,

Like I knew that game wasn't going their way and that series definitely wasn't going their way. But the minute I watched Jackson Turyo hobble off the field, I was like, oh, it's a wrap for the brewers. It's over. And I felt that about George Springer. But now apparently even though he wasn't in the lineup today, he was available off the bench, which is a very good sign for the Blue Jays. And it very well could mean that he is in the lineup in game five for this team. And that would be huge because, again, just for their offense to continue to, you know, try to go out there and do to Blake Snell in game five what they did to him already in game one and especially

be patient hopefully get to that bullpen as early as they possibly can which means you know again success for that team because that bullpen is is already taxed and we could see him take the lead here potentially before going back to Toronto I think a diamond backs connection that kind of comes to mind for me. I mean, the debacks have a long way to go before they're like the Blue Jays, before they're ready to go on a run like this. I think that's pretty clear. But you can kind of imagine a world where the debacks could be a team that's kind of like Toronto is now, where there's a lot of depth in the lineup. They have the kind of core of position players in place already. They don't swing and miss a lot, just like Toronto. Debacks have not been a team that has struck out a whole

lot in recent seasons. It's just a matter of getting the pitching to a place where it's viable. Toronto's pitching is not awesome, but it's good enough. Like it allows them to stay afloat. They have enough of it. They've got a few relievers they can rely on and they've got just enough pitching to put together a decent, a decent rotation for the playoffs. If the debacks could figure out that part of things, which frankly is easier said than done and they haven't been anywhere close, the past couple of years. I mean, it's been one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball. But their pitching staff doesn't have to be elite.

I mean, it doesn't have to be great. It just has to be kind of mediocre, like maybe a little better than average. And if you couple that with the offense we've seen in recent years, maybe the devax could be a team like what the Blue Jays are right now. You have no idea how many times this season, Jesse, that Damon and I looked at an at a glance for an opposing team. we were going to face and said on this show, man, could you imagine what we would be if we had the 15th best bullpen in baseball? 16th best? Like, we do not aspire to have us be the top five bullpen because we know, we know we will never have that. But man, like you said, with one of the top five offenses in baseball, to just have a mediocre ERA for your starting pitching staff

and your bullpen pitching staff probably would have led to us having 10 more wins this season easily in making the postseason and perhaps even being somewhat more of a contender than I could even envision this team being right now. But I gotta give a... Imagine. Imagine. Imagine, Jesse.

Got to give a shout out to our guy, Brandon Chips, for his super chat. Thank you so much, Brandon. He said, I'm not doing it too late this time. You did not, sir. So thank you. He said, great to see you, Jesse. and hope everything is going well over there for you, brother. Cheers to off-season news.

Can't wait until we have some off-season news, and I think I speak for both of us on that behalf. But I did want to let you guys know, of course, if you did not know on November 22nd, we are going to be having our four-person scramble benefiting the Big Brothers, Big Sisters out there at the Arizona Grand Resort. The entry includes a donation to our friends at Big Brothers, Big Sisters,

range balls prior to our golf event with 18 holes with a cart. golf event. We'll have games throughout the event as well as raffle and tournament prizes. So make sure to join us for that. November 22nd from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. out there at the Arizona Grand Resort. We would love to see you guys out there. One person who we would love never to see perform at a baseball game, specifically a world series game anymore, Jesse, is Brad Paisley. Brad Paisley, well-known country musician, came out and sang the national anthem prior to game three. and we have some pretty damning statistics to back up why Brad Paisley should maybe never sing the national anthem for a baseball game again. He did it back in 2017 before game two of the 2017 World Series.

That game went 11 innings. He did it before game three in 2018, as you know, because they've talked about it entirely too much on this particular broadcast. That game three went 18 innings then. World Series game one in 2024 went 10 innings. Brad Paisley sang the national anthem. And now, yesterday, in 2025, game three, 18 innings long. Jesse, as you know, I am a man of science. You know that from our years of being friends and working together.

I do not believe that's the phrase. I am a man of science. I am a man of facts. I am a man of reason. And I do not understand the magic going on around here, Jesse. I don't understand the magic Brad Paisley has over baseball games. or do I understand that Etsy witch situation with the Seattle Mariners. It's Halloween time and I'm feeling very scared by all of this.

And I very much do not like it. But this, there's something to this. This is not coincidence. I think Brad Paisley is doing something to impact these baseball games. I can't prove it. And I don't know what he's doing. But I feel like it's not magic.

I feel like he's just interfering with the game of baseball. I mean, I guess to test it out, we just, we need a bigger sample. simple size, Derek. I mean, any good, any good scientists or mathematician knows. So, you just got to keep.

Not just four games. That's nothing. Yeah. I mean, that tells you nothing. I think we should just have Brad Paisley do the national anthem for every World Series game. No, yeah. For the rest of the series and see what happens.

Let's see what the ex-Woba is when he's out there performing the national anthem. Well, there we go. I know that the ex-wobah is much higher on this show when you appear on it. So we thank you again so much for your. your time, Jesse. We appreciate you being here. Of course, we appreciate you being one of the most knowledgeable voices in this Diamondbacks community.

So make sure to follow Jesse at Jesse and Friedman on Twitter. You can also check out Snake's Territory. Jesse and Jack do an excellent job covering this team. Anywhere you get this podcast, anywhere that you download stuff, YouTube, all that. Also over at Snake's territory on Twitter as well.

Jesse, thank you so much again for your time, dude. I appreciate you. You can follow the rest of us. I at cap underscore caveman with a k damon is at damon dog with a d a wg at the end and especially on a night like this we are all damon's dogs bark bark our show is at p h and x underscore debacks but as always all roads lead to at p h and x underscore sports on twitter instagram and facebook you thank you guys so much for your time believe it or not we'll be back tomorrow with another 12 p m show so join us for that we're going to be previewing game five there taking place tomorrow in Los Angeles, as well as talking more about Arizona Diamondbacks free agency news,

which could be happening as soon as next week. So hopefully we have some big news, Bruin. Chances are we don't because we do not have a lot of money around here. But we'll hope that this team can figure a path out to success. So again, we thank you for your time. Jesse, thank you again for stopping by. We'll see you guys tomorrow. Until then, have a wonderful evening. Behave yourselves, Sean. And remember, kids. baseball is fun, but it's so much more fun when the Toronto Blue Jays beat the Los Angeles Dodgers in the World Series.