PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - RELEGATION!

Episode Date: February 25, 2022

On this episode, Derek and Jesse are discussing moving one day closer to MLB's deadline for a new CBA, how the change to a draft lottery will work, and Derek's ridiculous solution to tanking. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to another edition of the PHNX DVax podcast right here on PHNX. My name is the mayor of PHNX, occasionally known as Derek Montia, and I'm joined by the one and only Jesse Friedman, aka Thunderstick. His real name, though, is the vice mayor of PHNX. And we are here to bring you all sorts of Diamondbacks goodness. Jesse, how are you doing? Jesse's buying a house right now, by the way, while he's podcasting. I shouldn't pull the curtain back this much. But if you see Jesse all of a sudden start sweating and panicking,

it's because he has to make a decision pretty quickly. I have a lot of paperwork awaiting me after this end. So yeah, your thoughts and prayers are appreciated. Yes. But yes, it's been an eventful day over here, Derek. Unfortunately not so in the CBA negotiations. No, not at all. We'll absolutely get to that.

But of course, first we got to let you know this show is brought to you. by the fine folks at the Draft King's Sportsbook app. Hoops fans can get down on their latest offer right now. New customers can bet just $1 using our code of PHNX and get $150 in free bets should whatever team you win, win do that thing. And the Sons are back in action tonight. So again, like I've suggested,

maybe let's wait one or two games without Chris Paul to see how they're looking. But the Sons are a pretty solid bet for you to bet that $1 on the Draft King's sports book. Like Jesse said, yes, unfortunately, not much progression today. Progress was actually called minimal. There are four days left for the MLB and the MLBPA to get this labor deal done before a regular season games start being canceled.

Basically, yeah, Jesse, we're not moving. Alex Wood had a really interesting tweet about it. He said, it's fascinating. MLB setting a hard deadline to play a full season for Monday. They locked us out, had barely any. contact for two months post lockout have yet to make a single good faith offer to even initiate real conversations to get a deal done just make a real offer and then a little shrugging emoji which that part always makes me laugh about a serious conversation like this where it ends

in a in a funny emoji but yes jesse uh from what alex wood describes it's exactly how we've perceived it from the outside this entire time right pretty much pretty much uh yeah the owners have not really given in and the players haven't either that's what Alex Wood is not saying here the players have also held strong on at least most things right it's not like the players are over here compromising a whole bunch and the owners are just staying staunch where they are neither side is moving and that's why this isn't going anywhere the problem as we've discussed before is that the players have less reason to move than the owners do the players have have have really been underpaid for a number of years,

which as crazy as that sounds to, you know, the common people that we are. The reality is that Major League Baseball revenues have risen a lot over the last couple of decades. And player salaries, at least as of, you know, in this past year, they actually were lower than they'd been the year prior. So that's the problem that's happening here.

Neither side is budging. And the players don't really see much of a reason to in some ways. And like you said, I think the weird thing about MLB is it does have this perception like a lot of sports that they're all paid very well. And don't get me wrong to you, to I, to like regular fans that have normal jobs. Yeah, getting paid, you know, a half a million dollars a year or, you know, up to a million dollars a year. That that's a lot of money to us, right? But compared to other sports and compared to the percentage. of players that get somewhere in that amount versus the ones that we hear about that make

the big deals there's a huge gap right the majority of MLB does make close to the minimum and then you have everybody else then you have the superstars of the league which is maybe a little bit less than 30% of the league right but there are some things that these two sides agree on and at least are closer on unfortunately it's not the economics right and then And the labor deal portion is the portion that's really they're still far apart on. They're still far apart on so many things, including minimum player salary, some of the pre-arbitration details, that bonus pool for pre-arbitration players. And most importantly, the competitive balance tax, which they still don't see eye to eye on.

But they've agreed on the DH. And it seems like they've agreed on adding or changing the draft to be a lottery. to once again avoid one of my favorite seasons, Jesse, tank season. And we're going to talk a lot in this episode about getting rid of tank season. But first, I took a little bit because we were a little bit kind of confused on how this would work or what the proposals were for the draft lottery from each side. So this is actually pretty interesting because in the owner proposal right now,

which is for the first four-put picks, would be awarded by the lottery. all non-playoff teams would be eligible for the lottery. So it would be like the NBA, where if you don't make the playoffs, you're eligible for the lottery, then based on where you finish, you get an increased chance percentage-wise of getting the number one overall pick.

In the owner proposal, like I said, the four picks would be awarded by lottery. Then it would go in reverse standings order from there, starting at pick four. In the player proposal, the first seven picks would be awarded by lottery, and again, reverse standing orders would follow. But here's what's interesting is the way they want to avoid like, again, an Astro situation

where they just tank and get a really good draft pick one way or another, even if it's not the number one pick for a number of years. And the owner proposal, a team cannot get a top three pick more than two years in a row. The player proposal bounces teams from the lottery, but it's different. It's based on market size. large market teams and this is see and this is a shit like this that makes me go what the what are the fucking players doing maybe if some of their shit and their negotiation tactic is too complicated like this like you're dealing with owners that don't want stuff to be overly complicated like

this with all these ends and outs but okay so in the in the player proposal large market teams that finish in the bottom eight based on or bottom seven based on winning percentage in two straight seasons or in the bottom 12 in three straight seasons can't participate in the lottery at all. Small market teams that finish in the bottom four in the previous two seasons or in the bottom eight in three years are ineligible for the lottery. I throw my hands up at all of this because why are we over complicating it this much? At least in the owner's proposal, it seems a little bit more clear cut and a little bit easier. Like again, you can't get a top pick more than two years in a row, a top three pick. That seems pretty fair or even a top four pick or whatever they end up going with.

I know this has changed quite a bit. I don't even know where they're currently at with the number of picks. This seems eminent though, just like the DH. This is going to happen. I think the only thing that I really question now is when is this going to happen? And is this going to impact the Dbacks getting the second overall draft pick in essentially the 2023 draft or 22 draft is what it'll be. it'll be interesting to see and i think we've we've talked before about how most like we figure that however this goes down it won't impact the draft this year but i also don't think there's any you know rules saying that it couldn't um no we're not really protected in any from that and and it also could be a good thing right it also on the flip side could mean instead

of the number two overall pick maybe the diamond backs have a shot at getting the number one overall pick. But either way, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't fault the players too much for making this, making things complicated. There are a number of baseball, you know, things that have been in the CVA for a long time that, that I don't think any of us fully understand that have come from both sides, right? I mean, it's just, it's just complicated. There's a reason that most of the baseball world doesn't give a crap about, you know, 90% of this stuff. Because it, like, like, most casual baseball fans don't care about, you know, the, 22% rule for super 2s in entering arbitration early.

Like those kinds of things are so abstract. Most people just don't really care. I can't tell you how often. And this is no offense to anybody because I still don't know it very well. But just what pre-arbitration means, what arbitration means. Sure. We throw around these words as if they're like, you know, super easy to understand. Universal terms, right?

Yeah. It's like everything with baseball seems to be just a step more complicated. You know, again, the process for you to go from being a young gifted player to playing on a team and starting on a, you know, much more complicated in baseball than any other sport, money, your contracts, when you can make money, all of that, you know. And again, baseball does have at least for a lot of these guys, the ability for them to have a longer career than say like football because of the nature of the game. But it still sucks that that essentially what they're trying to fight for here is guys have to get so far into their career and still be

achieving, you know, a success at a high level in order for them to get that big payday that a lot of people refer to after they get out of, you know, their contract and get into a point where they can start making that big money. At this point, they're just trying to fight for, you know, some of the better players in the league that are pre-arbitration to have that stuff. And especially with the lottery, right, a lot of the things that they're trying to, to do involves just trying to prevent teams from tanking, especially considering that we've seen kind of a track record now for tanking working. And tanking, not just working to like get a single good player like in other sports where you could get a one player. You know, it's it's it's the need

to tank and essentially pick up enough players over a few years of being bad enough where you have this all-star lineup of young players that you can develop and do like what the Astros did and some other teams have. But we'll get to my idea next for that. I do want to remind you guys if you haven't signed up already to go over to go phnx.com. Sign up to become an annual member. You'll get your first, again, you'll get your free t-shirt, first free t-shirt over at p.nx locker.com. Pick out any t-shirt you want, no pressure. But if you don't get the Diamondbacks one, I think Saul Bookman is going to relegate us to a different network. I don't know how it works, but we'll talk all about relegation here soon enough.

But please, make sure you support the show anyway. You can't get up one of those sticker packs, whatever you want, as your additional purchase to your free t-shirt by getting a membership over at go phtnx.com. If you're not interested in the annual membership, please check out the month-to-month option. You'll get your first month for just 50 cents. Hopefully you enjoy what you see and you decide to stick around. plenty of content. Jesse and I have a couple of pieces up there this week. I'll have some more from Diamondbacks minor league mini camp tomorrow,

as well as Jesse. I think you have a piece coming up to at the end of this week. If purchasing a home doesn't get in the way of that. But the good news is Jesse purchasing a home means it's here in Phoenix, Arizona, and it's bringing him here. And that's our ultimate goal is to get Jesse home. So that way he can bring you even more content from his beautiful new home here in Phoenix. and we can give you guys everything that you're hoping for out of your local sports coverage. So go over to go PHM.

You're just making the announcement. Just random 13 minute mark on a Thursday in February. What's the announcement that you're coming home? Well, I guess so. I mean, we've kind of alluded to that in the past. I didn't know that was a big deal. Is that a big deal? Do we not?

I can't edit it out. This is live now, Jesse. but I guess that's it. The cat's out of the bag. I wouldn't have it any. Coming home. He's not going to stay in Seattle forever. I wouldn't have it any other way, dear.

That way I don't have to deal with it. It's already out there. People are you know. You're like a Larry Fitzgerald, right? Like, you don't want all this attention to use while to make your announcement move along in life. Right. Jesse coming back home eventually to Phoenix.

Whenever he signs paperwork and gets this stuff figured out. But again, I don't know where we are aware, but you can get announcements like this and our members-only discord, I promise. Future announcement on Jesse's housing will be on the members-only discord. And again, you also get members-only discounts over at phnx locker.com by signing up at go-PHNX now. Sorry, Jesse, for just blurting that out. I mean, we've kind of said it already, right?

Like, we've already alluded to that. Well, I said, you're going to be at my deathbed when I die. It's going to be my daughter. Right. It was kind of assumed. And Jesse. And I promise, no matter how much you fail in life, I won't relegate you. Even though that's my idea for ending tank season, Jesse. Yes, as tank season wants to fade out, not exist anymore, there's all sorts of ideas.

And I have a ridiculous one. I think we need to institute relegation. And if you're not familiar with relegation, that's, something that they do over in the European like football leagues where teams, if you're not, if you haven't watched Ted Lassow, go watch Ted Lassau. Just go watch Ted Lassau. I shouldn't have to explain. I haven't watched

Ted Lassow. Go watch Ted Lassow right now, both seasons, and then get back to me with notes. Teams in certain European leagues, you know, they actually play for their ability to stay in like the Premier League or a higher league.

And at this point, I just think that when teams in Major League baseball since we're getting all crazy with this lottery draft and we're talking about if you lose too many seasons or if you have a top pick in the top three you don't get to do it anymore forget that you lose you're the worst in baseball for consecutive seasons you get relegated to triple a that's my idea relegation to triple a this is exciting jesse i'm going to tell you why because the teams with the worst overall record let's say okay let's say maybe not one season i'll say maybe like three seasons, right? If you have the worst record in your league for three consecutive seasons or

maybe in your division, you're gone, right? Adversely, adversely, that means that teams from AAA would then get promoted to major league baseball, Jesse. How exciting is that that we could see the Durham Bulls as a major league baseball team or the Everett Aqua Sox or even our very own Reno Aces as a major League Baseball team. I'm not opposed to it. I think that would be kind of interesting. I don't think they'd be very good. But, hey, hey, that's for them to decide.

We could, because here's the thing is, and I didn't even know AAA did this, but AAA has a national championship game, a single game that they play, where the winner of their leagues play each other, right? And so then you have one decisive, Victor of everything. And for instance, they haven't had it due to the pandemic in 2020 and then 2021. They didn't have it. The Sacramento River Cats are the current AAA champs from 2019.

You would bring them. The Sacramento River Cats would now be a major league baseball team until they proved to be terrible and got relegated back down. And then so that means that there's a major league team that you would also send down their place. Correct. Just like we do with players. Just the whole team is going to go. Would it be like we do with players where, you know, on Tuesday, you call them up and then Wednesday you send them around and then.

Yeah, maybe, maybe. Don't unpack your bag yet, Orioles is what I'm saying. You're just sending entire franchise. Yeah, just the entire franchise. Yeah, I don't care how big their stadium is. I don't care how full it is. I don't care anything. Relegation, Jesse.

Relegation. That's how we'll end tanking. Hey, I'm just saying, if you honestly, what an embarrassment it would be as a major league team, right? And we're not saying it has to happen all the time. Maybe we set it up again. It's a consecutive loss thing. But if you can manage to not be in the bottom, that gives you something to fight forward towards the end of the season. It sounds like a joke.

But I mean, at times, there is no consequence for a team being bad in organized sport in North America. They can just be bad forever, you know, to the point where. Those fans of that city, a lot of people who pick their teams geographically have to just deal with that. I felt that way at times about certain Arizona sports, you know, our situations, how bad it's been at times, how unfair it is. Especially when like the Diamondbacks are in National League West. And I will say the one thing that's most heartbreaking is the attendance of every other ballpark in the National League West. West. There is not a single team that draws as poorly as the Arizona Diamondbacks. And that part is heartbreaking. Because when they go on the road to other stadiums, they're just

packed. It doesn't matter. And it's them playing the Diamondbacks. So it's not the opposing team being the draw. It's just them having a lot of people in their stadiums. So are you saying like, okay, so the Diamondbacks hypothetically, let's say they go down, their AAA team. And then they get replaced by a AAA team. That's right. It's the river cats. I guess maybe it's the Aces. I don't know.

Do you think this is like a sad but also somewhat genuine question? Would the Diamondbacks attendance figures noticeably change if they had a AAA team? Like if they had like a world class AAA team because I don't know. Like do Diamondbacks fans come to the games because they want to see Josh Van Meter play? because they want to see Josh Roboth play because they want to see Dolph. Like there are some good players, right? The Domenx of Zach Allen,

they have Ketelmarte, they have some good players. It's a genuinely good question because, yes, we know that opposing fans come to see their team, right? But like you said, how many Diamondbacks fans come out? Because tonight they're playing Kershaw and the Dodgers and they also want to see that person,

whatever the superstar that's on the other. They often draw because of the opponent, right? And Diamondbacks kind of straight up admit that. Like they advertise like, oh, the Cubs are coming in town this weekend. They do heavily. Especially those markets. The Cubs, the Dodgers, the Giants, you know, maybe even the Cardinals, which had a pretty good fan presence on one of the series I was at.

Which I think they're doing them. Like, it's one thing to do it for the Cubs, but it's another thing to do it for the Dodgers where like, Like you're literally just filling the stadium with Dodger fans by trying to get the word out there. But like maybe we just shouldn't tell people when the Dodgers are in town. Maybe they just shouldn't advertise those games so much. Because we've all been there, right? At times it feels like there's more support for the opposing team than there is for the diamond back.

It's a fact. It's not it doesn't, it's not that it feels like it. It is 100% what's going on. And you're right. I guess the advertising is a bit different. like the Cubs coming to town sincerely is like, hey, Cubs fans come to Chase Field. Like that's almost what it feels like. But the Dodgers, it's always like beat L.A. wink, you know, like it's kind of like that.

Beat L.A. But by the way, Dodgers fan. Just Dodgers are in town this weekend. Like, you know, it's still, again, it's still the thing about the opposing team drawing. And if they were a AAA team and they're playing against AAA teams and not major league teams, what happens then, right? Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. And I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. That's a scary question. Maybe I'm proposing things that I shouldn't be proposing, is maybe what I'm thinking here. Be careful what you wish for. That's the worst thing. I don't know. But anyway, I'll tell you this much.

You won't be relegated on the Draft King's Sportsbook app, no matter how much you win or how much you lose. Johnny Venerable, the normally solid JV, has been on an ice cold streak on the Draft King's Sportsbook app. I'm not one to talk. Whenever I give out actual picks myself, I tend to completely botch it on this show. However, I will say that my track record of actually betting on these events is very, very good. So I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sad about it. So you're, so you're admitting that sometimes when you make recommendations,

you don't actually put your own money on it. That is absolutely what I'm saying, Jesse. I'm absolutely saying that. Okay. So from now on, every time you give us a DK pick of the week, I'm going to have to get the truth from you, Derek. I'm going to have to ask you, are you actually putting your own money on this? Do you actually believe in it enough to take that risk?

Are you just hoping that our poor listeners? are going to fall for whatever madness that you propose for them to do. That's fair. It's fair. It's a fair question. It's a fair. You're calling me out and or calling me up as Monty. I'm calling you up. Yeah. That's what you say around here. But you're right. I will, I will, I will say that the last couple I've, I've placed my bet on that I brought onto the show have, have been winners.

So that's been, I'm not mad about that. I am still mad about Steph Curry, MVP, and not confirming. my bet. So again, make sure you're not a dummy like me when you're actually using the app. If your picks are good, make sure user error doesn't get involved like with me. But of course, new fans right now can get a great offer over at the Drafking Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. New customers can get bet just $1 on any team. Use our code of PHNX and you will get $150 in free bets if your team wins. It's that simple. Sportsbook customers can also bet on same game parlays, of course, existing customers like myself, like some of you,

combine multiple bets from the same game for a bigger payout. The more legs you add, the more money you win. Draft Kings is safe, secure, and reliable. Best of all, you can deposit and withdraw your cash whenever you want. Download the Draft King Sportsbook app now. Use promo code of PHNX bet just $1 on any NBA team and get $150 in free bets if they win. That's promo code PHNX at Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. 21 and over only Arizona only gambling problem doll 100 next step new customers only minimum $5

deposit required eligibility restrictions apply see draft kings dot com slash sportsbook for details and yes Jesse I'm going to put my money where my mouth is and I am back on the voting I'm back on the betting on the Arizona coyotes to lose okay no how we can all we can that one we can all get behind they're playing the Vegas golden nights tomorrow night or actually tonight again, sorry for pulling the curtain back. We're recording on Thursday, but this is Friday show, of course.

And this is a live show. This is a live show. It's all sorts of things. But if you're listening to us right now, get down on it before tonight's game. I don't know. The coyotes, I've heard some things about what's been going on with them.

They seem to be actively trading away players that are good or have value to make their team even worse than they've already been here at the trade deadline. They're in full-blown tank season. It's, yeah, their tank season has a whole other level of tank season. You can say what you want about the Arizona Diamondbacks, but they legitimately were not trying as hard as this organization is trying to lose. Not to mention, everybody's getting their jokes in on the new stadium over at ASU,

sharing that facility with ASU despite the fact that I think it's going to be an incredible experience. It looks really cool. Yeah. That's what I mean. I mean, again, I know that the arena that they play in isn't very big. So, but it's much bigger than this place. Like, it seats much, many more. Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, again, a different market than the NHL. So. Well, I'll tell you this much, though, that it's going to be sold out every single game. And that's one difference that there is something. There is something to be said for that as, as people who cover a baseball team whose stadium has a capacity that is probably twice as big. is maybe it should be there's something to be said for an intimate environment where the house is packed every night right so and maybe i mean what is it like 5 000 or something like it's

yeah i think it's pretty low that that's pretty low that's pretty low but i don't know what did the coyotes draw on an on an average night i really don't know that off the top of my head i mean i've been at games i don't know how many are empty seats for like season ticket holders and stuff but it's been pretty empty. I mean, I'd say less than 50% capacity. But I also don't, I mean, I won't lie. I tend to go to cheaper games because they offer deals, right? It's something that we've been kind of imploring the debacks to do as far as this entire situation they're going through. Just do something to fill the house up. I know, like you said, it's, it's the stadium, chase field, it's not getting reduced any or changed anytime soon. So really, at the end of the day, I would

think that based on making money off of parking, making money off of concessions and other things would be worth $5, $10 tickets for the upper deck when the team was as bad as it was last year. I don't think I saw much of that. I saw a few cheap ticket promotions, but not nearly as much as we've seen in the past. And the team was much better in the past than they were last season. You, it was. So I, as of a few years ago, if I would go to a diamond back. game as a fan of course and I needed to buy a ticket, I would use Stubhub or Seatgeek or, you know,

one of those third party apps. I basically never bought tickets directly from the team just because usually those apps were cheaper, right? I'm sure some of our listeners have probably done the same thing, right? If you go to ticketmaster.com, right, you're going to, you know, you're going to buy a $30 ticket. You're going to pay $27 and fees. And it's frustrating, right? Just the way, just the way that that works. So, yeah, third party apps were always the way to go for me. But last season, it was not the same. You just could not find the same caliber of deals on those apps as you've been able to find in the past. And I don't know exactly what the cause was for that.

Why? You know, because demand was so low, you would figure that the prices would follow and the prices would decrease. But that just didn't really happen on those apps from what I saw last year. Yeah. I mean, a lot of it is about scalpers. and such buying season tickets or people that have season ticket holders, not saying just scalpers, but their tickets are automatically cheaper. And then in a lot of cases, especially if you're talking day of or something like that

for not really that, not super desirable series to watch, they're just looking to unload them for anything that they can get so that they don't, you know, take a complete loss on that game and that night. I don't know. I've I've actually bought tickets from scalpers right out front, you know, that sell tickets right there. I've done a lot of things to try my best to, I know. By the way, here, I'm going to give you a pro tip. If you ever buy tickets from a scalper, I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but if you do,

make the scalper walk you up to the door. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, make sure it's an actual ticket. I'm not lying, man. That's the best piece of advice I ever learned about buying tickets from someone who you don't know and might not trust is just have that person walk you up to the door. If they're real tickets, they shouldn't have a problem doing that. So just pro tip there.

But again, don't buy tickets from scalpers. I don't know what I'm telling you. Don't listen to me. I'm a degenerate. But of course, listen to Jesse. He's a five-star man. If you're listening to us right now on your favorite audio podcasting app, leave us a five-star review for this five-star man.

He deserves it. Also, subscribe to us on our YouTube channel if you haven't done so already. and sign up for notifications. That way you don't miss any of the content from the PHNX team. Of course, you can follow us on Twitter. I'm at Kap underscore caveman with a K. Jesse is at Jesse and Friedman. Our show is at PHNX underscore D-Backs,

but of course, all roads lead to at PHNX underscore sports. And that's on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. We thank you guys again. We hope we don't get relegated. We hope you don't get relegated. We hope all of us can stay up. But watch your ass because, you know, there needs to be consequences. That's all I'm saying.

We thank you guys so much for tuning in and remember kids. Baseball is fun, but it's so much more fun when there's consequences.