PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Sean Murphy traded to Atlanta while the D-backs seek an astronomical return for Varsho

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

The Arizona Diamondbacks continue to stay active in trade talks despite a lack of success this offseason. Potential trade target Sean Murphy is off to the Atlanta Braves, but the D-backs are still discussing a possible move for Daulton Varsho. Will their efforts be enough to make the playoffs in 2023?BUY D-BACKS TICKETS HERE: https://gametime.hnyj8s.net/c/3442941/1410622/10874 SUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtubeALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsports PHNX: Join us at the Inaugural PHNX Tee Party at Dobson Ranch Golf Course!We are renting out the entire driving range! Come hang with Big Drive Energy, the PHNX crew and fellow Diehards for a night of golf, food, drinks, contests, prizes, and more. Our PHNX Suns crew will be hosting a watch party for the Suns vs. Timberwolves. Check out https://www.eventbrite.com/e/phnx-tee-party-at-dobson-ranch-tickets-481918139127 to reserve your spot right now! And for our Diehards, check Discord for your special link where you’ll save 20% on this awesome event!DraftKings: Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now (https://bit.ly/3Jl1dMX), use promo code PHNX and make your first deposit of FIVE DOLLARS and get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in FREE BETS INSTANTLY! For every leg you add you can boost your winnings up to ONE HUNDRED percent!If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisiscounseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visitOPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA).21+ (18+ WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. Min. $5 deposit required. Eligibility restrictions apply. See http://draftkings.com/sportsbook for details.OGeez!: Enter the “Flavoring Life” sweepstakes. One winner will receive 3 bags of OGeez, an OGeez! Hat, a PHNX shirt of your choice, and a PHNX annual membership. Sign up at gophnx.com or visit https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfIplqDYsxYeiotn5Zc6hRahaX0a5qG99eHVzkhOlGZDRdgUA/viewform. Must be 21 years or older to purchase.Underdog Fantasy: Sign up for Underdog Fantasy today! Go to the link https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-phnx and use promo code “PHNX” to receive a deposit match up to $100Four Peaks: Enter to win the “Toast of the Month” sweepstakes to win a $50 Four Peaks gift card, a PHNX shirt of your choice, and a PHNX annual membership. Go to goPHNX.Com or visit https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfOabxo8KQxOWwn9wTilMBuTMAJdrL0CaH9lzfuJqgKN9vfSg/viewform Must be 21 or older. Enjoy responsibly. Bad Birdie: Use code “PHNXBADBIRDIE15” for 15% off your next order https://glnk.io/7qnq/phnx-sportsMor Furniture: Save up to 50% all through the holidays! Check out https://morfurniture.comLiquid Death: Get free shipping on all water and merch at https://LiquidDeath.com/PHNX FOCO: FOCO has you covered with the best Arizona Merchandise. Head on over to foco.com. For all non pre-sale items use the promo code “PHNX” for 10% offWhen you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

and welcome into another edition of the PHNX debacks right here on PHNX. My name is Derek Monti, occasionally known as your mayor, PHNX. And I'm joined, of course, by my vice mayor, the one and only thunderstick, Jesse Friedman. A rare audio only show during the week, Derek. During the middle of the week. It doesn't feel right. We should be interacting with people. We should be talking about Gabriel's ridiculous comments, coming through the chat about his dog and how he wants to trade his dog for something or other.

I've actually acquired his dog Sybil in a three-team trade. A three-team trade? Okay. Would you like to name the third party in the trade? The third party was Anthony Totry. He was involved in the trade as well. And yeah, one of my dogs and a dog to be named later is actually part of that trade. What did Totry contribute to the trade?

Totry contributed nothing. Totry contributed a Starbucks order and a promise to not be as terrible as he always is. But of course, this show is brought to you by the fine folks at the Drafking Sportsbook app, America's top rated sportsbook app. Free agency is cooling down. Maybe the trade market heats up. We don't really know, but trades are starting to happen. And of course, it involves one of the Diamondbacks trade targets, at least allegedly. We don't know how much internally the Diamondbacks are targeting any of these players for sure. But Sean Murphy was apparently on the Diamondbacks radar, catcher from the Oakland A's.

however he is no longer an option for Arizona and he has been traded to the Atlanta Braves. We talked about this a bit yesterday. Now that we have some more information on the deal, we can see if it was really something that the Diamondbacks may have been able to be in on. I'm not sure about that. It was a three-team trade that also involved the Milwaukee Brewers and involved a lot of top prospects for sure going to the Oakland A's. So I don't know, Jesse. What are your thoughts here about this trade and Sean Murphy moving for the package? that the Oakland A's got.

It seemed like it was actually fairly reasonable, I think, in a lot of ways. A lot of people seem to think of the Milwaukee Brewers actually got the best side of this trade as kind of the third party team just kind of getting in on the action here. I thought it was interesting. Our friend Jack Summers kind of tried to figure out like what would be, what would be like the comparable equivalent for the Diamondbacks of what the Atlanta Braves gave up in this trade. If you're the diamond backs and you were trying to bring in Sean Murphy, like what's the equivalent for you,

you know, that you would have had to give up in order to kind of match what the Braves gave up in this deal. And he said, Blake Walston, Slade Sacconi, Bryce Jarvis, and Dominic Fletcher. If you trade those four guys,

and of course, there's no perfect comparison here. But if you trade those four guys, it's roughly equivalent to what, uh, what the, um, what was given up by the Atlanta Braves in,

in this deal. So at first glance that, I mean, Blake Walson, I think, would be, that's the, that's the big name that I think it would really hurt to give up because I think Blake Walsston still has some front-line starter potential. Slade Cicconi, you know, could turn into a good starter. Bryce Jarvis has had a really rough go the last few years in the minor leagues, particularly this last season. And then Dominic Fletcher, I don't think you necessarily have much of a problem dealing him, given how much depth the debacks have at that position. So, you know, based on the ask that from the St. Louis Cardinals, that, we had talked about earlier, this actually seems a lot more reasonable.

Like the A's did sort of back off their asking price a little bit here in order to get a deal done. Well, and of course, the A's aren't going to be competitive anytime soon, so it makes sense that they're looking for more of a prospects package. But what they were asking for from the St. Louis Cardinals just seemed to be too much all-star caliber talent currently on the major league roster. That was that, that, it seemed ridiculous to ask all of that. that. However, like you said, this trade does seem much more beneficial for all the teams involved, except to be honest, the Atlanta Braves. And I say that because why did they need another catcher,

Jesse? Was Travis Darno not good enough for them? I mean, is this like, we've had this question a bit about the Diamondbacks. We've talked about it with the outfield. We've talked about it with some of the positions that weren't necessarily positional needs. But what was the need here to upgrade from a guy that had such a good season in 2022? And honestly, I've really, a really, really good off season or the playoffs as well. Yeah, it doesn't make much sense, does it? The Atlanta Braves did. I mean, it is an upgrade. Sean Murphy was still better in 2022 than Travis Darno. But yeah, I mean, Travis Darno was a 3.9 war player this last year. Sean Murphy at 5.1. Darno had 18 home runs and 60 RBIs. Sean Murphy had 18 home runs and 66 RBIs.

and in a slash line is actually maybe a touch better. Darno hit 268, 319, 472 compared to Murphy's 250, 332, 426. And obviously the fact that Murphy plays in Oakland is going to be a big part of that. But yeah, there's not that big of a difference, right? It's almost the Spider-Man meme pointing at each other, right? Like, it's the you are me and I am you kind of deal. Yeah, I think so. like Darno is still under team control for they've got him under contract for

23 as a club option for 2024. He is a little bit on the older side. He's 33 years old. So, you know, as catcher's age, I think there is, there is some reason to maybe be concerned there. But yeah,

I mean, point two there. I mean, honestly, not as a person who was 41 years old, not to be attacking age or attacking people that are younger than me. But when you look at the Braves and what they're doing with their roster, their roster is solidified for a number of years.

And there is a lot of similar ages there as far as that team goes. To be honest, Travis Darno is one of the older guys on the team. That doesn't really fit the same timeline. Atlanta Braves seem like they're trying to put together a dominant team that is going to compete in the NL East, excuse me, for a number of years. and they know that they are going to have some stiff competition in that division, but they are much younger than some of their opponents in that division. So it feels like maybe trying to upgrade your entire roster to be around the same age, to have that same timeline might be something a little bit that they're shooting for

with this trade for Sean Murphy. Yeah, I think that's a good point. Murphy's 28 years old, so he does kind of fit along. I mean, he's maybe still a little bit older than some. of the four players on the Atlanta Braves. But yeah, I mean, certainly a lot younger than Travis Darnow. But yeah, it's weird. I mean, the Braves also had William Contreras, who of course was part of this deal.

But in 2022, the Atlanta Braves got the third most production out of the catcher position of any team in baseball. Only the Toronto Blue Jays with their trio of insane catchers. And the Philadelphia Phillies, who of course have arguably the best catcher in the game in J.T. Romuto, the Atlanta Braves are right. there at number three because Contreras and Darno were that good. And of course, the Braves come in and they're like, no, this is not good enough. We need to get better. Moving forward. And yeah, Sean Murphy is, you know, I mean, it's hard to imagine a better catcher that would have actually been realistically

available than him. So I also, I also must say that I can already hear, you know, the negotiation silently happening, maybe not so silently happening within the front office over there in Atlanta, that Sean Murphy is probably going to sign an extension within, you know, the next three or four days, you know, I mean, they're not going to, they don't waste time over there doing that sort of thing, right? They're not letting you just stay there and be a problem for them later. They're going to take care of it now. But speaking of a problem, and I guess it's less of a problem and more of a question that not only have we been asking, but we got yesterday on Twitter, when did catcher seem to become a priority for the debacks.

That's an interesting question. No offense, no offense to Carson Kelly. Carson Kelly obviously isn't a premier catcher in the league, but we've talked about Carson Kelly, still being a good baseball player and still being exactly what the diamondbacks need. It seems like ever since Mike Hazen talked about potentially upgrading positions, like not necessarily positional needs,

but upgrading positions, which is kind of, it was revolving the Xander Bogart's talk. But this seems to be a similar thought process here is that the Diamondbacks have been trying to upgrade maybe not just shortstop, but also upgrade catcher as well. And, you know, again, there are, there are, there is a, you know, a point to be made that Carson Kelly doesn't necessarily need to be replaced. He just hasn't really stayed healthy and had a chance to be consistent for this team. Yeah, I don't think that Carson Kelly is, is bad, right?

I mean, you're not necessarily saying that. I think if you're the debacks, you're just looking at like, okay, we have this surplus in the outfield, we have this asset to deal to another team. Like what part of our team are we a little bit light in, right? Like what is it that we need? And I think the bullpen is the first thing that everyone thinks of and understandably so. But you're not trading Dalton Varsho or Alec Thomas for a reliever, right? At least not primarily.

You don't want that to be the centerpiece of the return. And you look at the debacks production at Catcher last year. yeah, Carson Kelly had what Mike Hazen described as an uneven season, right? He really floundered at the beginning of the year. He got hurt. He came back from injury. He looked better. He had a pretty decent month-long stretch there in the middle of the year.

But he wasn't consistent for the Diamondbacks. And you look at their production from the catching position as a whole. Diamondbacks catchers in 2022 hit 197, 275-302 and were below replacement level, negative 0.3 wins above replacement. And a lot of that is, you know, certainly Jose Herrera and, you know, obviously Carson Kelly wasn't the only catcher the Diamondbacks had this year. But it's a position of need, I think, for this team. Maybe not need.

I guess maybe I shouldn't use that word, but it's a position of opportunity where, like, if you're going into next year, how can we move the ball forward? Catcher is a really big spot where the Diamondbacks have an opportunity to improve. Arizona is still connected. Well, not, maybe not connected, but Ben Nicholson Smith from Sportsnet. He covers the Toronto Blue Jays. Listed the Diamondbacks is still a potential suitor to trade with the Blue Jays for a catcher because of the catchers or the Blue Jays surplus of catchers, as we've talked about before.

And again, it's the similar thought process that you brought up of the surplus of outfielders that the Diamondbacks have, especially left-handed hitting outfielders. and, you know, it seems to make sense. A trade between these two teams, I've never even seen, I don't think I've ever seen any solid evidence of it. It just seems like everybody that looks at the Toronto Blue Jays and the D-backs thinks, this makes sense. Like these guys, these guys need a young outfielder.

These guys need a young catcher. Both teams have like a surplus of those things. Let's make this happen, y'all. Come on. Let's get a deal going. But meanwhile, the Blue Jays, they're not, they're not just waiting around for the Diamondbacks. They picked up Chris Bassett on a three-year,

$63 million deal. We talked about that a little bit, but of course, it's a good thing because the San Francisco Giants were interested in Bassett, and that's another name that could potentially not end up or is not going to end up in the NL West. So as long as those things keep happening, I'm fine. I'm happy, Jesse. I just need these big names to keep signing elsewhere. The NL East is going to be an absolute nightmare next year.

And my condolences to Nationals fans. and fans of the Miami Marlins. I don't know if there's many of those out there, but rounding, rounding things off a little bit. Christian Vasquez, catcher signs with the twins. Mike Zunino,

another catcher signs with the Guardian. So the catcher market, again, seems to be getting, it's, the pickings are slim, and it seems like if the Diamondbacks do make a deal for a catcher at this point,

it's going to be through trade. I totally agree. And I do think there is some potential for, for a deal. with the Toronto Blue Jays. I mean, you know they're going to, they're going to deal one of the three catchers,

right? I mean, I'd be shocked. They'd have to. Yeah. I mean, you've got three, like,

well above average catchers. I guess we don't totally know who Gabby Moreno is in the big leagues just yet, but likely well above average catchers going in the next year. It just doesn't make sense for them to carry all of them when there's such a need for catching around the league. I do think that there still could be a fit there. I know the Blue Jays just got Kevin Kiermeyer.

and he's a player that you could start. I don't know exactly the Blue Jays plans with him and how they view him. He didn't have a great year this last year with Tampa, but he didn't necessarily play a whole lot either. He had 228, 281, 369. It was about a one-war player. He's obviously always been well-regarded defensively. But looking at their depth chart,

you've got George Springer, and then you've got Whitmanerfield, who will probably play some second base, maybe play some outfield as well. He's probably going to split some time there. And then after that, I don't know if it's super clear where the rest of the innings and the outfield are going. I mentioned Kiermire.

You've also got Gurriel Jr. Probably getting a look in left field, although I don't know if he's necessarily viewed as a starting caliber player there. So there is still potentially a need for the Blue Jays to maybe add an outfielder. There's certainly still an opportunity for the diamondbacks to add a catcher.

So I wouldn't close the door just yet on the diamond backs in the blue. Jay's possibly working something out there. Well, if you haven't had a chance to do so already, make sure to check out go-PhNX.com. Jesse has an article up for diehards only, the diehards only newsletter that you can get by getting yourself a PHNX diehards membership.

I have a bone to pick with you about it because right in your first paragraph, Jesse, you say, for the last decade, the site of crumudgeonly traditionalist baseball fans, clamoring for players to learn to beat the shift by hitting the ball to the opposite field has grown more and more prevalent. And then you say, just bunt down the third baseline already, they say.

It's like a quote. And I'm pissed because you said they say, and you're not quoting me. You know that's something I say. Every single game we sit next to each other, every time the shift is put on, and I'm furious that you did not put, bun down the third base line already, says Derek Monti. That's what I needed there.

I wanted it to be, I didn't want to attack anyone in particular, right? And I'm talking about traditionalists, or marginally baseball fans. I didn't want to put you in that group all by your lonesome, you know? Anyway, make sure to check out that piece by Jesse. It's wonderful on shift restrictions and the drastic impact that they're going to have on the Diamondbacks in 2023. Of course, if you haven't done so already, get your membership, get all sorts of discounts, deals, get yourself free merchandise over at the PHNX Locker.com and discounts to events such as our PHNXT party,

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And another guy that we want to continue to be part of the pH and X families, our friend, Dalton Varsho, not sure if you've heard, he has all the tools, every single tool. And apparently, DBAX and Astros have been discussing a potential trade for Dalton Varsho. We brought this up on the show yesterday. but afterwards, me and Jesse did some digging around in the Houston Astros organization to see who exactly might be a potential candidate for the Diamondbacks to receive in exchange for Dalton Varsho. And to be honest, there's not a lot of guys.

There's not a lot of guys. We say that because Dalton Varsho is a vastly underrated player. Varsho is the kind of guy that puts up numbers that sometimes you don't necessarily believe. We've talked about his war and how important he was to the Diamondbacks in 2022. but it is kind of hard to find another name that's reasonable, I guess you should say, that would provide the same value back to the Diamondbacks that he would be giving to the Astros. It's so true. Yeah, and I've been having some Twitter DM conversations with some people who cover the Houston Astros, and I won't give any names, but I will say that there's sort of like this, this convincing that has to happen of like,

no, Dalton Varsho is actually a lot better. than you think. They don't think he's worth some of the names that you and I have kind of basically thought of. Some of the names that when you throw it in, you know, comparatively as far as production goes, would equal the value of Varsho. Varsho was a 4.6 war player, according to Fangraphs.

I think baseball reference has him right around that exact same point. So there's just no, there's no questioning here that he's one of the most valuable outfielders in baseball, even if, you know, even if the name credibility isn't, isn't quite there to match just yet, right? I don't think a lot of people around the game necessarily know who this guy is yet. But yeah, he hit 27 home runs last year. I think if you project out his offense in at Minutemade Park in Houston, I think he could be due for a bit of a jump there in his offensive productivity.

So that's another thing to factor in as well. Chase Field is no longer a hitter's ballpark by any means. It tends to lean a little bit more pitcher-friendly at this point. So, yeah, I mean, the debacks are going to have to get a substantial return. And we've heard in these reports that the diamondbacks asking price on Dalton Varshow is very high, as well it should be. You shouldn't trade Dalton Varshow if, you know, if you're getting a risky starting pitcher, you know, who may or may not pan out, right?

Ellie, you would need something else in that deal. You shouldn't trade Dalton Varsho for an elite level reliever, even if they're really, really good, right? Because he is an elite level outfielder who's going to play every single day and be one of the best at what he does. And there's still some potential here for Varsho to make strides. I still think in some ways we've seen some flaws develop in his swing, as he's able to iron those things out over time.

Like, he could be an all-star. I mean, if Dalton Varsho has an 850 OPS or something, at some point in his career, he will be among the five or ten best outfielder's in the game because of how good his defense is. So that's just the big thing here, Derek, is people just have to understand how good Dalton Varsho is. And I have a feeling that Diamondbacks might be struggling to get other teams to understand how much they value him.

It makes sense. And again, we've talked about, and I know, this is just a thorn in our side as Arizona of sports fans. Maybe it doesn't even really exist. Maybe it's just something we make up or small market teams make up. But it tends to be that where the Diamondbacks have a player that comes out, develops and becomes good and isn't a big name, isn't a national name that other teams or other fan bases are going to recognize or be excited about to potentially trade for unless they start looking at the numbers and realizing how good he is. One thing that's frustrating here is that Dalton Varsha was a catcher and can still catch. But obviously,

the Diamondbacks don't really feel like he is a viable everyday starting catcher behind the plate, despite that's what, despite that being what he came up as, right? That's what he was in the minor leagues. And I mean, this is one thing, again, when you talk about like, you know, the aura or you want to talk about like the young prospects having a certain amount of, you know, excitement around them, Varshow was that. Varsho was Corbyn Carroll in a way before Corbyn Carroll was Corbyn Carroll.

Like Varsho, for a period of time within the Diamondbacks organization, was one of the top prospects, the highest prospect. We were so excited to see this guy come up. And to be honest, he has been everything we thought he could be just not at the position that he was coming up as. If he was a catcher, the Diamondbacks' problems here would be a bit solved. They wouldn't have a surplus of outfielders. They wouldn't be looking to pursue a catcher in the free agency or through the trade market.

things would be much different right now for this team. You and I look, though, at the equivalent values of some of the players, if you were doing a one-for-one trade between the Houston Astros and the Diamondbacks, and one of the top names that appears to be the perfect fit would be Jeremy Pena. Right. But according to your sources, as well as kind of logic based on this World Series and the way things have gone, Jeremy Pena is off the table as far as a trade prospect for the Astros go, despite the fact that he probably would be the person closest to,

a one for one trade with Barsh. Yeah, if you're doing a one for one trade, I do think at least on paper, the value there is pretty equivalent. And yeah, I don't expect the Astros to trade Jeremy Pena. I mean, the fan base

absolutely loves the guy. He was serving Raising Canes through a drive-through to fans, which I don't know what you do. Did you ever hear his wonderful story about Carlos Correa and the way that Carlos Correa treated him when he was leaving? Like, Carlos Correa knew he was out the door. And he basically like,

anointed Jeremy Pena. He took him under his wing and was like, you're going to be the guy after I'm gone. And like, that's really cool. Like that actually, like I've seen a lot of things from Carlos Correa that raises, raises his stock as a person in my book quite a bit. But I mean, when you talk to,

when you hear people talk about being a former teammate of Correa, that's, that's one thing that I just can't get enough of at times that kind of leaving that legacy behind or, you know, again, just given, given the next young guy that, that confidence to step up and be the, be the man. And obviously, he was for the Houston Astros. But with, with Pena probably being off the table, it seems like potentially a starting pitcher might be the next target for the Diamondbacks in a, in a trade with Houston. I think so. Just, and, and the other reason that I don't think Penae would be on the table is I don't really see an obvious candidate to fill that

role on the Astros roster. If they lose Paine, yeah, they're going to have to go find a shortstop. And I just don't think that's going to make sense for them. So all Carlos Gray is still available. Just saying. Bring it back. Bring it back. I think I think pitching is definitely going to be the best fit here.

The Astros do have, at least like if you look at their depth chart, they appear to have about six starting pitchers that are maybe seven. I think you can make a case there's maybe even seven starting pitchers that are ready to go in a big league starting rotation going into next year. So I think that's where the Astros have depth and the debacks obviously have depth in the outfield, which is a need for Houston. So there is a fit there. So in terms of who's like the centerpiece, who's the big starting pitcher you're getting back, I think it's going to be one of three guys. So there's Hunter Brown, who is the number one overall prospect in the Astros organization.

I saw pitching ninja comparing him to Justin Verlander. Apparently they have similar delivery, although you never want to put those expectations on a kid just yet. I don't think he's quite there yet. But his delivery is really close. Yeah, the delivery to the mechanics are very close. And he did get a little bit of a taste of the big leagues last year. And Derek, he was quite good. In 20 to third inning, he's not a big sample size.

He had a 0.89 ERA for the Houston Astros. So his career got off to a pretty good start. Not dissimilar from some guys the debacks have in their organization. organization. Very true. Similar from Dre Jameson and Ryan Nelson, who came up at the end of last year and put up really promising numbers in the big league. So that is one name that people I've talked to over from Houston.

Hunter Brown seems to be a realistic trade option, someone who the Astros like a lot, but maybe they'd be willing to part with in a deal for Varsho. Do you think Christian Javier is on the table? I think Christian Javier is another one. Javier has three years of team control remaining, which I wonder. if the d i don't know but i wonder if the debacks would be hesitant to have both galen and haviere uh you know coming off the books at the same time becoming free agents at the same time it would it would be tough to lose like what could be your two best starters at that point in the same

year um but maybe that doesn't factor too much into their calculus i mean you still get three years uh more of him christian haviere is one of the best young starters in the game so i think that's also an option and we have talked about the diamondbacks needing to kind of expedite their timeline a bit as much as they do have a bunch of young guys and that the future is probably beyond 2025. They don't have that they don't have that much time, right? They don't have that much time. And maybe they do. We, we've said that. Maybe, maybe Zach Gallen is a diamond back beyond those three years. However, they need to, at least for the time being, they need to kind of game plan that he's not. They need to focus on trying to build a contender here in that time period

before they lose that gown. And that's realistically, I hate to sound so dramatic about it, but it's the truth, right? And even if that means that after that period of time, the team goes back into a rebuild or whatever the hell they want to call it after that point. I mean,

I don't even know if they would be in that bad of a position. However, I see what you're saying. Like to lose your two best starting pitchers in the same year is almost like a throwing your hands up in the moment, you know, kind of thing. Like, let's just give up at this point. But they'll still be a very young team at that point. There's no reason why they can't continue to evolve.

That's the bigger thing. It's not going to a rebuilding, rebuilding phase, but an evolution of your team and continue to evolve. That's something we've seen out of the Astros and other teams that continue to be successful. But who else did you have on your list? You had one more name. Yeah. So the other pitcher would be Luis Garcia, who I don't think is he's not to the level of Javier or Brown in terms of value. I believe there's four years of team control remaining there.

But he's more of a, he's like a good number four starter. I wouldn't say he's a number one or a number two. But we've seen the Astros use him in the postseason where he's looked pretty good. So I think there's also an opportunity to maybe you get Garcia and then you pair that with, you know, maybe a Brian Abreu, who's a really, really good reliever potential closer down the road that the Astros have. Maybe if you get both of those guys in a deal, you'd feel. okay. The other name I want to bring up is is not a pitcher. This would be like a supplementary

piece that I think could fit in some of these deals is Jainer Diaz, probably bushering that pronunciation. That's the best. I've heard it pronounced. That's the best I could possibly do. Diaz is a catcher. And we know the diamondbacks don't really have a long term catching option within the organization. There aren't really any prospects in the system that I think the organization is necessarily too high on. So Diaz is not, he's probably not to the level of a Gabby Moreno over, over from Toronto. But if you could get him along with a Hunter Brown, for example,

I think that's a deal that the Astros would consider. And I think it could make some sense for the debacks as well. You're getting a young starting pitcher, six years of control, could be really, really good. And then potentially you could get a catcher of the future in Diaz. He seems to be more known as a hitter, more known for the offense. but it sounds like he could be good enough to be sort of an average everyday regular behind the plate. So I think there could be a fit with him as well.

The debacks do have a positional need at starting pitching, right? With Zach Davies gone, they technically only have four starting pitchers right now. So a deal for a starting pitcher makes sense. However, we have talked a lot and we do have some more wonderfulness coming up for you about Brandon Fott. But Brandon Fott most likely is going to. find his way into this rotation this year. So it just leads, it leaves me wondering who's the odd man out if they do trade for a starting pitcher, who makes it into the bullpen potentially or back

to the minor leagues. I don't know if any of these guys, I don't know if that, that's going to block or keep Brandon fought in the minors for a longer period of time. So these are, these are the things that trading for a starting pitcher right now kind of concern me, which is weird. We shouldn't be concerned about getting better at starting pitching. We shouldn't be concerned about, you know, a young pitcher within the minor, minor leagues, you know, having to wait a little bit more if they do go pursue, you know, somebody to fill that starting rotation spot. However, I am just excited about these young guys, Dre Jameson, Ryan Nelson gave me enough to feel confident about last season. And I just can't wait to see how they performed this year. I'm

truly excited about that. And Brandon fought. So it's like, I just, I don't know if this organization necessarily needs to trade for starting pitching. Yeah. But it's the same thing as the catcher, right? It's an upgrade. If they can go out and they can bring in somebody like Christian Javier, who has that playoff experience and can be the solid, probably maybe second man in the rotation, you know, like that that that can change the complex of this starting

rotation quite a bit. I just, I don't, I don't know. I'm still, I'm still a little concerned about some of their other positions. needs that they're not addressing and I still haven't heard enough about a third baseman or you know some of the things that they really need. So that's the only reason why I'm a bit, you know, worried about where this this trade situation is going to take us. I, I am honestly glad that the Diamondbacks have not gotten involved in the crazy spending frenzy. And of course, we're going to talk about that. But before we do, I need to pump my brakes. Take an OGs, calm myself down because I'm getting a little worried, get a little worried. Get a little worried. about my young outfielders and where they're actually going to go and what this team is going to do. But nothing makes me not worry like OG's edible. So make sure to check them out at your local dispensary. They have a wonderful variety of flavors.

They make me feel great. My chair has never been safer as when I am on OGs. But of course, make sure to try their wonderful variety of strains and doses. You can find them at your local dispensary must be 21 or older to enjoy. Cardinals fans, I know you guys need some, some OGs after last night's Cardinals game. Oh my gosh. I don't want to bring it up. Draft Kings went ahead and reimbursed my bet that involved Kyler Murray.

That made me sad. I didn't even want to see that come back to me. But of course, OGs helped me get through another terrible night of Arizona Cardinals football. Shout out to ASU basketball, though, for being a bright spot in this in this desolate sea of sports entertainment for us. But also make sure to check out our friends at Four Peaks Brewing Company. We've talked about the chicken tendees. We've talked about the A Street Pub. It's the best place to go watch sporting events. And of course, you can catch those World Cup final games out at the Four Peaks Brewing Company,

A Street Pub, as well as you can give the gift of beer this holiday season. And what better gift than beer? Here's the thing. Go to PHNX Locker.com, get one of those Sethservaisa shirts, and then give it to somebody along with the Four Peaks December Advent calendar box. For $55, you can enjoy specialty beers, tall boys, more. You purchase this at their A Street pub in Tempe. And of course, if you can't

get down there to the A Street Pub, make sure to purchase Four Peaks Brewing Company beer wherever you get your beer, wherever you get your local groceries. I had to get the grocery in, Jesse, but 21 and over only to enjoy those wonderful beers from Fort Peaks Brewing Company.

Jesse, we spoke about the D-Backs free agency window closing a bit, and obviously we know that they weren't in any kind of, I guess, position to need to go out and throw a whole bunch money at any big names. The team arguably might not be in that position yet for them to try to, you know, make them a winner, try to get them over the hump. But the projections, everything we've seen, how they came along the last two years, you can understand why this organization feels

like they're inching closer towards being competitive. However, we don't know if that's going to be the case because the free agent spending has been crazy enough to make us think have the Diamondbacks basically been priced out of contention. As Bob Nightingale pointed out, teams would rather spend right now than give up players in their system, which doesn't really work for the Diamondbacks who are trying to negotiate a pretty stellar trade that's going to involve giving up a key piece of their outfield for probably another young piece of some other organization system, but as we've seen,

that hasn't happened as of yet. The Diamondbacks have added a few names, but nothing that's going to move the needle substantially. We don't feel like at least. But again, getting back to the question with what teams like the NL East have been spending had the Diamondbacks basically been priced out of contention at this point.

I mean, it's a dark thought, right? It is. It is. been priced out of, priced out of contention. But I think that, I mean,

it's, it's probably going too far to say the debacks are priced out of contention, right? We know they have enough, enough young players where if, if those players come out and flourish, uh,

in a big way this next season, I think you could, you could see a path where the diamond backs, that could actually wind up better than some of these teams that are spending big money. But my perspective on this is, let's try to simplify this down. In order for the diamond backs to make the postseason,

They have to be one of the six best teams in the National League, right? You've got your three division winners. You've got your three wildcard spots. D-backs are going to need one of those, right? So the way I'm thinking about this is the St. Louis Cardinals are going to win the NL Central. I'm just going to say it. Maybe that's a little bullish at this point. The St. Louis Cardinals are probably, the Zalo's Cardinals are probably going to win the NL Central or someone is going to.

Right. And there's no way the Diamondbacks can interfere with that, but not in the NL Central. So at that point, you're competing with the Dodgers and the Padres. The Padres, as of right now, have a projected payroll of $235 million for next year, and they're probably not done. You've got the Dodgers who, as we've discussed, have not done a whole lot, and it seems like this might be somewhat of a quieter offseason for them. But also, I think you're fooling yourself if you're going to project the Diamondbacks to be better than the Dodgers next year in spite of their lack of spending. they're at $173 million for and they're going to go after Carlos Correa or they're going to go after Danesby Swanson. One of those two guys is most likely going to end up as a Dodger and that's there you go.

There's that extra spending that you're talking about. Totally, totally possible. So you've got the Padres and the Dodgers. I think it's going to be really, really hard, even if everything goes right for the devax in 2023. It's going to be really hard. It's going to be better than any of, than either of those teams is given how big that payroll disparity is. And then like you were talking about, you go to the NL East and you've got the New York Mets and Uncle Steve, right? $335 million is their projected payroll as of now for next season.

It's going to be really hard for the Diamondbacks to be better than that team, even though I think the Mets still honestly do have some flaws. I don't think they're a perfect baseball team. But if Justin Verlander and Max Scher and now they have Kodai Senga in the mix as well, that's starting. rotation has a lot of depth. And it's going to be really hard. Let's just say this, too. It also, like, yes, it benefits the diamondbacks as far as the schedule benefiting the dimebacks next year, that they don't have to play.

The NL West is often. But with what you're talking about in the NL East, that actually is bad for the Diamondbacks, because at least if the NL East had to play each other more often, like they have in previous years, those teams would have no choice but to beat up on each other. So you never know who kind of ends up getting the short end of the stick and losing to the Mets a whole bunch or whatever the case may be. Now those teams aren't playing each other nearly as much. So that NL East is not only wide open, but those teams can beat up on the rest of the National League. And essentially, like you said, gobble up those final, all three of the final playoff spots, essentially.

The NL East winner, as well as the two remaining wild card spots. And like as you addressed just now, that really, is what it feels like. It feels like the Diamondbacks only have a chance at two spots, technically, next year, right? I mean, all of this is crazy because baseball, more than any other sport is a game where all of a sudden a team can catch it on fire. All of a sudden, a team of nobody's becomes a team of somebody's. All of a sudden, a team you've never heard of is one of the best teams in baseball, right? It's, it doesn't happen often, but it seems like almost every year there's some team that was like, you know, doing terrible,

year before that comes out and is just shocking the world, right? Look at what the Baltimore Orioles did coming off the season that they came off of where they had a worse win total than the Diamondbacks did in 2021 and they end up over 500, I believe, at the end of the year in a difficult AL East, right? That's not a, that's not an easy division to be a part of either. So I'm with you. It definitely looks like the path to the playoffs in 2023 is not only crowded, but it's going to take like a team probably being, you know, bad.

Like a team that's expected to contend, a team that's expected to be good to kind of take a dip and go south in order for the Diamondbacks to have a solid chance at potentially getting one of these final wildcard spots. And you also consider like the Atlanta Braves, right? I mean, they're in the mix with having one of the biggest payrolls of baseball there at 197 million. in the mix forever. And like, and that doesn't even include, right? Like what they just did with this trade to get Sean Murphy. That's not even really moving the needle on their payroll, but it's a big addition of talent for them. And then you've got the Philadelphia Phillies. You have the, who are projected out the fourth highest payroll in all of baseball at $230 million. Of course, they just landed Tray Turner. So the path of the playoffs for the diamondbacks. On one hand, it's like, yes, they are they are projected as of what we as of what we're looking at. They're projected for about. 84 wins, you make some additions, you could easily get that projection up to 87 or 88. But which one of these teams are you going to beat? Like the Cardinals, you can't do that. They're going to win the Central.

They're not even in the mix. Then you've got the Dodgers, the Padres, the Mets, the Braves, and the Phillies, who are all spending absurd amounts of money and have a lot of, you know, talented guys within their organizations as well. It's going to be tough. It's going to be tough for the debacks. and I know I'm not surprising anyone by saying this, but if you're going to go in and spend 110,

$1,15, $120 million, whatever that number winds up being, it's going to be really tough for the Diamondbacks when you consider what the exact teams that they have to compete against have done. Is 88 wins even going to get you into the playoffs? I don't know. I don't know.

It's a very good. I mean, the Phillies made it with 87 this last year, right? I mean, the way the math works out, usually like the sixth best team in the league would probably have about that number of wins. But in terms of just like the talent level required to get there, like because of how good a lot of these National League teams are, you might wind up with some really good teams that only win about 89 or 90 games,

something like that just because of how good the competition is around the league. Well, the Arizona Diamondbacks are currently plus 8,000 on the Draft King Sportsbook app to win the World Series in 2023. And as far as National League winners is concerned, the Diamondbacks are plus 4,000 to come out of the National League. So not great odds. If you want to know what teams that they're being considered to be equivalent to right now would be the giants. Oh, no, excuse me.

That's way too high. They would be the equivalent to the Detroit Tigers and the Miami Marlins. So that's the category that the Draft King's Sportsbook is currently putting the Diamondbacks on. Longshot favorites are the athletics and nationals, followed by the pirates, reds, Rockies and Royals. And then you get into that class where the Diamondbacks are at. So hopefully they can do something to increase their odds of winning the World Series. Right now, the Astros are your favorites for 2023 at plus 550 for that, and followed by the Dodgers at plus 700. So interesting to see what happens there. And interesting to see if the Dodgers making any kind of free agent move increases or decreases, decreases.

I guess you should say their value and maybe puts them as the favorite up there on the top of the board for the World Series. But make sure if you haven't done so already to download the Draft King Sportsbook app now and sign up with our code of PHNX if you haven't done so already. You can place a $5 pregame money bet on any NBA team to win their game and you will get $150 in free bets should they do so. So that's code PHNX only at the Draft King Sportsbook. Minimum age and eligibility restrictions apply. See show notes for details. We thank you guys again so much for joining us on this audio-only podcast. Jesse and I are going to go hit some golf balls and exchange presents on this wonderful, dreary Tuesday morning. But until then, you can follow us, or at least until tomorrow, you can follow us on Twitter.

I have no idea what's going to happen tomorrow. So you can only follow us until tomorrow and then we'll see what tomorrow holds. But you can follow me at Kapp underscore Kman with a K. Follow Jesse at Jesse and Friedman. Our shows at Ph.NX underscore Dbacks. But of course, all roads lead to at PHNX underscore sports on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. We thank you guys again for listening to the show on behalf of Jesse and myself. We always appreciate your time.

And remember, kids, baseball is fun, but it's so much more fun when you get equivalent value for Dalton Varshow.