PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Stone Garrett got DFA’d and the Diamondbacks traded for 100 MPH man Carlos Vargas

Starting point is 00:00:06 Hello and welcome in to a special edition of the PHNX Debaks podcast where you might find out if you either got DFA'd or added to the 40-man roster. My name is Derek Montia, occasionally known as your mayor of PHNX. This guy next to me is my vice mayor, is one and only thunderstick Jesse Friedman. Aren't people allowed to just like stay on the active roster? No. Everyone's in limbo. Everybody is in limbo and everybody's career and future is in jeopardy.

Starting point is 00:00:35 But of course, this show is brought to you by the fine folks at the Draft King Sportsbook app. America's top-rated sportsbook app. And we are here covering the fallout from the 40-man roster decisions that had to be made by 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time yesterday. And we had a chance to talk to Mike Hazen about some of those decisions that were made. But the Diamondbacks definitely had some tough decisions to make. And honestly, nothing really too surprising. Some of it is sad.

Starting point is 00:01:03 And yes, we're going to get to Stone Garrett being DFA'd. But first, let's talk about what the Diamondbacks added and who they're. retained as part of their 40-man roster. Now, again, it's no guarantee that anybody that was not added to the 40-man roster is, in fact, going to be picked up by another team, right? Sometimes that's what the Diamondbacks and other teams have to do. They have to weigh the risk of actually losing a player potentially, and they've got to try to do everything they can to keep those guys that are highly coveted

Starting point is 00:01:33 by other teams. There's a good chance that perhaps Stone Garrett wasn't necessarily highly coveted by other teams, and might make his way back to the debacks. But first, let's talk about who they added to the 40-man roster, Jesse. Yeah, it was Blaze Alexander and infielder, who's one of the guys we've talked about, kind of expected. Jorge Barrosa, interesting. He's an outfielder who hit AA this year, 21 years old, I believe. Very good defensive outfielder.

Starting point is 00:01:58 Yeah, somebody that they have high stocking. Right. Yeah, Mike Hazen talked about in the press conference that they get asked about Barrosa all the time, and he's a switch hitter, has a lot of upside there. Dominic Fletcher, he was basically a guarantee to get added. He was a part of that group. And then Justin Martinez, another guy who've been talking about a lot lately, someone else that we very much expected to be on the list.

Starting point is 00:02:19 The biggest name for me, Derek, that's not on the list is Dominic Canzon. 25-year-old outfielder played most of last year at AAA, put up some pretty decent numbers there. That was probably the biggest surprise. Not too much of a surprise. He was sort of on the edge for me going in, so I'm not shocked by this. But it's interesting. It's not impossible that Dominic Canzon could be claimed by another team in the Rule 5 draft. That's absolutely correct.

Starting point is 00:02:43 And the Arizona Diamondbacks looked like they were mainly trying to protect their pitching, especially Justin Martinez. Yeah. After what he did in the fall league, you just couldn't. There's no way that you could possibly not protect it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And pretty much it was the guys that we thought would be protected by the team with the exception of Barrosa. And they gave their reason for that.

Starting point is 00:03:03 But I think, again, if you're a left-handed outfielder for this. organization right now, they really have a hard time finding a guaranteed future for you with all of the young, talented, left-handed outfielder that they currently have. So, but Barrosa again, probably the one surprise in there, everybody else, are guys that we expected them to retain and make room for. The room that they had to make, the room they had to make involved DFAing, Sergio Alcantra, Stone Garrett, Jordan Looplo, and Caleb Smith. And of course, out of those four guys, Stone Garrett is the most surprising.

Starting point is 00:03:44 That's the one that stands out. Sergio Alcantra and Jordan Looplo, obviously, they contributed to this team. Sergio, more so than Jordan Looplo, but both were a big part at times of this team. Caleb Smith was very good for this team out of the bullpen, but due to injury. Very good. I might have to tap the brakes on very good. I'm not just talking about 2022. I'm talking about in general. Caleb Smith seemed to always be better out of the bullpen.

Starting point is 00:04:10 He was one of their better options, which I think says more about their other options than it does about him. But yeah, I mean, he is a guy they probably would have brought back for next year, had it not been for the injury on the last day of the season. And from that point on, I think it was pretty clear. This was the move that the team had to make. But yeah, Stone Garrett is the big surprise here. And to everyone who is distraught over this, who's not sure. shirt like Derek himself. I understand where you're coming from. I mean, it's pretty weird to have a guy hit 276 and slug over 500 and just under 100 plate appearances in his first taste of the

Starting point is 00:04:45 big leagues like Stone Garrett did and get DFA just a couple months later. It's a weird look and not something that we anticipated. But basically the choice here, Derek, it says less about Stone Garrett standing among the other outfielders on the team. For me, as it does, does about Stone Garrett compared to some of the external options the Diamondbacks could get. By getting, by DFAing, Jordan Lupo and Stone Garrett, the Diamondbacks have no right-handed hitting outfielders. They literally don't have a single one. I guess Cooper Hummel's a switch hitter, but he's probably going to be used more at catcher. Jorge Barrosa is a switch hitter who's now on the 40-man roster, but he's not close to the big leagues. The Diamondbacks currently, as of now,

Starting point is 00:05:27 do not have a right-handed hitting outfielder going in to 2023, and Stone-Garrett could have bend that guy. But what this decision tells me is that the diamondbacks would rather go out there and find somebody else to fulfill that role on the team in 2023. I think the strikeout rate was very concerning for them probably. He struck out more than 32% of the time, hardly walked at all in that sample that we saw at the end of the year. Gabriel says, Aaron Judge, to the debacks confirmed, which is the only thing this could possibly mean. It's the only thing that makes sense. I think that the Diamondbacks definitely, as we talked about in the past, and as Mike Hazen kind of confirmed to Jesse yesterday during the press conference,

Starting point is 00:06:11 was that the Diamondbacks are in fact looking to add a right-handed bat to their outfield, but I think they're trying to add somebody that they can value more defensively, maybe have it in there with some more plate appearances and not necessarily need to strictly use as a DH at times, like they kind of had Stone relegated to as far as a role goes. Yeah. Yeah, Mike talked about how like he still thinks that the left-handed hitting outfielders will get the majority of the playing time.

Starting point is 00:06:37 Correct. Which is no, I mean, if you have Jake McCarthy and Corbyn Carroll and Dalton Varsho and Alec Thomas, like that's where the majority of your bats are going to come from. But there's also something to be said for late in games. You know, if you want to avoid a bunch of left-on-left matchups, it's helpful to have, you know, a decent right-handed hitting outfielder who can also come in the game and play some defense. So I think that's a clear need for them. It's not just that they need a right-handed bat.

Starting point is 00:07:06 It's that they need a right-handed hitting outfielder as well at this point. So whether that's A.J. Pollock or Will Myers or whatever that looks like on the free agent market or otherwise, it'll be interesting to see. And I think a lot of those guys are going to end up wanting maybe a position that's a bit more full-time. I don't know about AJ Pollock. He tends to be Mr. Glass, and I don't know if the Diamondbacks fans would even accept that without revolting and throwing things at him from the outfield. I think that's possible. I will say that Tommy Fam is a right-handed band. I know he's a bit older in his career, but he still has, I think, a lot.

Starting point is 00:07:40 Still hits lefties. Still hits lefties well. And could be a guy willing to accept a role like that. I think the one thing that I took away from my Kazin's press conference in regards to this and in regards to the trade that they made, was the Diamondbacks seem to be wanting to make that leap, right? I mean, they talked about how far away they were from winning. They also talked about how they internally have those discussions about how close they really are and basically how aggressive they need to get to make this team a winner.

Starting point is 00:08:14 Last season, obviously was a nightmare. 2021 is what I'm talking about, not 2022. They didn't even have really a starting rotation put together well due to the, amount of injuries and everything they went through. But 2022 seems like they were much more on track. And I mean, we've discussed obviously the problems the bullpen have had all season long. But that seems to be now Hazen's focus. And also just trying to focus in on those key areas where they did lack and right-handed

Starting point is 00:08:45 hitting is one of those areas that they definitely lacked, right? But they also did make a trade yesterday, trading for Carlos Vargas. And they traded away a young prospect and Ross. Ross Carver. Who inevitably will make us regret doing that. But Carlos Vargas is very exciting. And Mike Hazen talked about wanting a bullpen arm that could throw hard. And this guy throws hard.

Starting point is 00:09:11 Yeah, I think it's a bit of a shift for the organization. Mike Hazen admitted this that they're basically choosing the reliever over the starter. It's a changing philosophy for a little bit. It is. The debacks over the past few years have really done. done everything they could. It's a push guys to be starters and to try to pack their organization with as many starting pitching prospects as possible.

Starting point is 00:09:32 It looked like it pained Mike Hazen's face to even say this, by the way. It looked like it hurt him deep down inside because he has always valued starting pitching very high. And I think he even, like admitted, it's maybe not so much a change in philosophy, but seeing a need. It might also just be the fact that he realizes now after watching the playoffs, the question. quality of relief pitching that's out there. And you have guys throwing 106 miles an hour in the strike zone.

Starting point is 00:10:00 You got to step your game up. Obviously, the bullpen for the debacks were far behind other teams bullpens when it came to that kind of dominance of bringing in a guy that can throw over 100 miles an hour. Yeah, and Carlos Vargas does that. He's coming off Tommy John surgery. So he threw about 36 innings this past season. Most of that was in AA. He did get 10 innings in with AAA in September.

Starting point is 00:10:23 and he pitched really well there. He gave up one run in those 10 innings. He had 16 strikeouts, so the swing and miss stuff, I think, is for real. Tocry and Emma are being problematic as normal. Fuck you. Fuck you. No, fuck both of you. And your takes on Taylor Swift.

Starting point is 00:10:38 I heard what you said. Anyway, sorry about that. I had stuff to deal with. Taylor Swift is bad. Get out of my, get out of here right now. You fucking suck and you're wrong. I'm only going to the Taylor Swift concert for Paramore.

Starting point is 00:10:51 Swifties unite. Thank you. See, I knew I always loved Espo. Anyway. But yeah, I mean, the Diamondbacks definitely stand poised to be more aggressive, I think, this season. I think that they feel, especially with watching what the Phillies did, and of course, we try to pump the brakes around here and remind everybody that the Phillies had the fourth highest payroll in baseball. Right.

Starting point is 00:11:12 But with that being said, that it can't help that they made it so far that the Diamondbacks felt like they were so close to being in that, at least in that discussion for a wildcard spot and seeing what they did. I mean, I think the Diamondbacks truly feel like those bullpen losses that we've discussed quite a bit were just a huge factor when it comes to this team possibly being at least a playoff team. Maybe not, maybe not ready. Maybe not, you know, at that World Series level yet. Not quite.

Starting point is 00:11:45 But like the Seattle Mariners, right, where they made their first entry into the playoffs again. and they're back as a team. And now we're seeing them in making some trades to try to improve this team, bring in a bat and make their team better for next season. The Diamondbacks, I think, feel like they're young. They're, you know, maybe still not close to the top of the division, but you might not need to worry about winning your division anymore with the way that baseball and the playoffs are now structured.

Starting point is 00:12:13 Yeah, I mean, winning the division is always going to be a challenge for the deep backs. Even, you know, if everything goes right in the next few years and this team is winning 9095 games, you're still going to be tough to win this division, right? Yeah, you're still going to have other fucking teams winning a hundred plus game. Right. It's going to drive us nuts.

Starting point is 00:12:27 But then there's the Philadelphia Phillies who just made it to the World Series as the first National League third wild card team ever, right? So you know that once you get in, you've got a shot. And I think the debacks are maybe going to have to take that approach moving forward. But yeah, Carlos Vargas is sort of a wild card, like far from a sure thing. He was not on the Cleveland Guardian's top third. prospect list, at least not according to MLB pipeline.

Starting point is 00:12:52 He was number 24 on that list before 2020, before the 2020 season. So, yeah, before Tommy John's surgery. At that point, he was still being viewed as a potential starter. Now I think that's pretty much in the past. Everyone views him as a reliever. And that's probably the role that he was best suited for all along. So, yeah, the debacks don't have many guys like this. Like, they don't have many guys who throw 100 and have a slider that's in the low 90s, right?

Starting point is 00:13:17 But those are the kind of pictures that you see in the postseason that you see in the back end on a lot of these teams. And Mike has talked a lot about needing to add more swing and miss to the back end of the bullpen. And this could be a move in that direction. It's not a sure thing, right? You're giving up Ross Carver, who was a solid starting pitching prospect. The debacks pitched really well in Hillsborough. Shout out to the hops. Derek is sporting the hat today.

Starting point is 00:13:42 Once he got to AA, he didn't pitch very well. He had an ERA over nine in nine. starts with AA later in the season. So Carver is, it could be something. He has a great curveball, but. Absolutely. You know he's going to be, right? You know he's going to be, yes.

Starting point is 00:13:58 But Mike Kazen had the best answer when asked yesterday. Oh, he did. As to why they were willing to part with Ross Carver. And the answer was, Jesse, what? It was that because that's who they asked for. That's who the guardians wanted. Word for word. That's it.

Starting point is 00:14:13 Mike Jason said. And he followed up and said, and also like it was a fair. He thought it was a fair ask for what the diamondbacks were getting in return. But yeah, it doesn't seem like, it seems like the debacks identified a player that they wanted to get in Carlos Vargas, who fit the mold of what they're trying to find moving forward. And they were willing to kind of give up whatever as long as it wasn't, you know, as long as it was reasonable. So they got their guy and we'll see how it turns out for them. Tommy King in the chat.

Starting point is 00:14:41 It's been a minute since I've seen them, but Frius is a flamethrower. No. Yes, Luis Frius is absolutely a flamethrowerer. we don't have many of those. And to be honest, from what we saw this season, it looked like he needed to kind of tame his velocity down a little bit in order for him to be effective and get in the strike zone. So maybe if he can make those two things come back together

Starting point is 00:15:02 where he can be throwing 104 miles an hour again like we've seen him do, but able to actually get it in the strike zone. At a major league level, that's the only way he's going to be effective because that might work in minor leagues, but it's not going to really get you anywhere in a major league. Yeah, yeah. Freeas is another name to keep in mind for sure. I think Freas, Justin Martinez, and now Carlos Vargas, that's the trio of like awesome stuff. But like you don't really know if these guys have what it takes to command the baseball at a major league level. So Freas is in the mix too. I don't think he has any guarantees going into next year. He's going to have to come into spring training and prove himself. But yeah, Carlos Vargas, it sounds like could be an option in the big leagues for the debacks next year. Mike Hazen said it's, you know, it's not as concrete. is like he's definitely going to have a role in 2023. We're not at that point.

Starting point is 00:15:50 But I think he and Martinez and Frius all have a shot in spring training to maybe make some noise and have a shot at making the opening day roster. Going back to something that Ben asked in the chat, and I just want to say, I don't think you're a bit of a dumer for thinking that he said, am I wrong for feeling a bit dumber considering where the other teams are headed? I don't think so. I think that it's very hard.

Starting point is 00:16:14 It's very hard. I feel like the Colorado Rockies and the Diamondbacks are always going to be in a weird position. But the Rockies, let's not forget, have a very high payroll as well. And they're spending a lot of money too. They're just not spending it the right way, technically. Whereas the Dodgers, the Padres, and the Giants, when they do spend money, seem to know where to spend it and how to spend it in an effective way. Not to mention, not to add to your feeling of doom, but Chris Bryant's going to be back next year for the Rockies.

Starting point is 00:16:43 and they're probably going to be better too, considering his injuries and everything he went through this year. So the NOS is always going to be a very, very difficult division. Luckily, starting next year, we don't play them as much. So there is the opportunity for the Diamondbacks, even if the NOS is tough for them to still make some noise and make the playoffs in 2023. And I don't know if I'm ready to even predict that happening yet,

Starting point is 00:17:07 but let's see how drunk I get before the end of this show. Speaking of which, shout out to our friends at Four Peaks Brewing, company for providing me with plenty of Joybus Wow Wheat because it's the only way I get through doing this show with Jesse, of course. But you can enjoy beer specials and all sorts of other fun by joining us for the World Cup matches for both the United States and Mexico at their 8th Street pub. Check the link in the show notes to register for free. That way they have an idea of how many people are coming. Enjoy $3 kill lifter specials and these bad boys right here for three bucks. Also make sure to check out all the World Cup action. The roster is

Starting point is 00:17:43 drop, Ted Lasso, sending out notes to all the team members for Team USA. We're having a great time. It's less than two weeks away now. So I can't wait to join the fun. We're sending Jesse out as a special correspondent to be there at the A Street Pub for all those football games. But join us for that. A special correspondent.

Starting point is 00:18:03 You're a special correspondent. Jesse's going to be on assignment at the A Street Pub. We also, we've talked about this. We've done it. We've disagreed. But it is time for us to once again hand out another report card for another Arizona Diamondbacks player for the 2022 season. Jesse, ready to do this? Let's do it.

Starting point is 00:18:23 All right. Jesse wanted us to pick on Merrill Kelly this time. He thinks I'm going to give him a D. He was all sorts of, speaking of being a dumer, this guy, just because I didn't give Zach Allen an A plus for the 2020 season. No, it wasn't that he didn't give him an A plus. So you didn't even give him an A minus. Yeah, you gave him a, you gave him a, you gave him a, you gave him a B. plus for a season where he's going to finish like top six in Cy Young voting.

Starting point is 00:18:47 I thought it was, I don't know, a little harsh. There was room for improvement, Jesse. There was room for improvement. Do you want to go first? Sure, I'll go first. All right. Let's take a look at your report card. So this is my Merrill Kelly report card.

Starting point is 00:19:00 So we have our six different categories here, fastballs, which is plural for a reason, because Merrill Kelly technically throws three of them. He has the four seamer. He has the cinder. He has the sinker as well. Change up. always been a big pitch for him, curveball, command, and control.

Starting point is 00:19:16 That's kind of a combo grade. Let's take a step back, because one area we're definitely going to vastly agree on is the fastballs. Like, what is your idea behind your A-minus here? Yeah, so the A-minus for the fastballs, I think it's, so there's three pitches in there and I have very different opinions on them.

Starting point is 00:19:31 So Merrill Kelly's four-seamer might be the most, the most underrated pitch on the diamond backs, one of the most underrated pitches on the diamondbacks. If you look at his run value from all of his different pitches, which is just like a fancy metric that just measures the value of every pitch that a pitcher has, his four seamer grades out as his best pitch according to that metric. And his cutter is right there along with it. His foreseamer and his cutter are both very, very good pitches. The sinker is a little bit more of a work in progress. He doesn't use it that that much.

Starting point is 00:20:02 But it was reasonably effective for him this year. You're not going to like my grades. I'm just telling you that right now. Okay, all right. Well, I'll keep going down the line here. So change up, I have a B plus. Yeah. The change up was like the big story coming into the season is something he'd worked on over the off season, something that he had shown a lot of improvement on. It seemed like all of the success he had, specifically in the first month or two, was heavily because of that change up. By the end of the year, it actually graded out as about average. So I'm giving it a B plus here. There was a big spike in his ground ball rate on the change up, which I thought was interesting. The curveball is in a huge pitch. for him. I think it might have taken a slight step back this year. He didn't use it quite as much. It's still a decent pitch. I have a C plus there. So still still pretty decent. Command is always good with Merrill Kelly. So I'm going I'm going A minus on command. He actually had the highest walk rate of

Starting point is 00:20:54 his major league career this year, which is strange because he was, he threw 200 innings and was an excellent starting pitcher. So that's why I'm going a minus there. But overall, that's always going to be one of his strengths. I couldn't go anything but A plus for the 200 inning season on durability. Can't. And then Dog and him, I have an A. I'm not really sure exactly how to grade someone in dog and him. You did an excellent job.

Starting point is 00:21:19 I did an excellent job. Okay. I mean, Merrill Kelly hasn't dogging him. Gabriel Ferris says, let's hear about middle Kelly, as Jesse calls him. Oh, my gosh. Jesse gave him very high marks. I gave him pretty high marks. I'm going to attack the man's fastball right now, so Leah, if we could throw up a

Starting point is 00:21:33 Oh, okay. I gave him a D on his baseball. Oh, my gosh. I gave him a D. I know he throws three of them, and I know, like Jesse said, I'm not going to acknowledge that it's not his best pitch

Starting point is 00:21:45 or that he's not very effective with it. But what Merrill Kelly calls a fastball averages out at what, like 92 miles an hour? What Merrill Kelly calls a fast... Could you say it in a more demeaning way? It's a forcing fastball that goes 92 miles an hour. I mean, it's good. I'm actually right with you on his changeup and his curveball.

Starting point is 00:22:07 I thought his curveball, like you said, his usage was very low on it, but it was kind of confounding at times because it seemed like a very good pitch at time. Yeah. Like he seemed like it in the past, he's really good one. It's almost like what we saw Zach Gallen when it came to the changeup. Change up, he didn't throw it very much. So it's hard to grade it as being an effective pitch. But on the other hand, it's very effective when he does throw it.

Starting point is 00:22:30 So you don't know why he doesn't throw it more. B plus for his changeup though His changeup is incredible And again, the fast balls Really it's about velocity there for me With Merrill Kelly and nothing else His command has been incredible His control has been incredible

Starting point is 00:22:45 It's A's the rest of the way Down the board But I'm giving him an A plus Like Jesse said Nothing else for durability It's throwing 200 innings plus Yeah And it was also like

Starting point is 00:22:57 A project for him Like you know You have a kid in school that like sets out to accomplish a goal before the end of the season. And you might even be like, okay, good luck with that, pal. But he did it, right? And that's something that you can't take away from Merrill Kelly was he wanted to pitch 200 innings from opening day.

Starting point is 00:23:16 Yeah. And he did it. And so between that and just the fact that like Merrill Kelly's stuff isn't great at times, yet he seems to be able to just do so much with it. You know, and he, that's why that dog is. him if I could give a higher than an A plus. That's fair. That's fair.

Starting point is 00:23:34 I would give him an S grade on that if I could. For what Merrill Kelly has, like, yeah. I mean, the fact that he had a 3.370 RA last year and a 1-1-4 whip was like basically the quality of a number two starter. Yeah. But his stuff doesn't top out at being very, very good. No, his stuff on paper is not to that level. When you start comparing his fastball and his other pitches to like the league, he's, he's not

Starting point is 00:24:00 not very high as far as starting pitching goes. And I mean, it's just literally. It's literally his competitive nature and his ability to win baseball games. And even when he gives up three runs, the one thing that you always see out of Merrill Kelly is him bear down and do what he needs to do in order to keep any more runs from scoring. It's just not a trait that you see out of a lot of Diamondbacks pitchers, to be honest. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:24 Ben says he has above average spin on his fastball and some really good, expect hitting stats against, so D is really unfair. I mean, Ben, if you haven't noticed, Derek isn't necessarily the one to be, you know, scrolling through spin rates all day. I'm sorry, what's his average velocity? Fastball velocity is in the 29th percentiles and baseball savants. So I'm not fucking wrong. It was actually a career high.

Starting point is 00:24:51 92.6 was his average four seamer this year, which is, which yes, granted is not, is not that fast. But it does play up. What Ben is talking about is true. He's in the 70th percentile roughly in fastball spin, which does make the pitch play up quite a bit. What do you give him a grade for his 20-22 season? Overall?

Starting point is 00:25:10 Yeah. Overall, I have an A. Just given that like... You just hand out A's all day long, don't you? No, no. Man, when I would have killed, it would be one of your students. Did everybody... I grade baseball players different than I grade math tests, all right?

Starting point is 00:25:24 And I don't feel like I have to go in this. super depth on why that is. I don't believe you. I have an A because Merrill Kelly just threw 200 innings with a sub 3-4 ERA. Like what more are you hoping for expecting? And again, I'm doing this the same way at a gallon. I'm doing this kind of with the player's talent level in mind. Like, I don't, like, this is peak Merrill Kelly.

Starting point is 00:25:46 Like, I don't know how much better you could possibly expect him to get. He's already so incredibly good. But it's like you're grading him on himself instead of grading him on. I am. I am. Because like if we were, I don't know, if we were to grade Sergio Alcantra season, I'm not going to give him like D's across the board because he's a utility. Like, I'm going to grade him for like who he is and like how well I thought he fit the role that he was asked to fulfill.

Starting point is 00:26:10 Well, the feedbacks gave him a D. That's for sure. DFA. A DFA. I'm giving Merrill Kelly a B minus for 2022. And that's how I'm not giving him a single grade higher than that. What grade do I get as your co-host? He's going to C-MID as a best

Starting point is 00:26:27 But that's at least average So I'm a hard man to please What can I say? I think we're, yeah We're just doing this kind of from two different perspectives Which is fair Yeah, I mean, I still think that if you were just grading Merrill Kelly relative to the rest of the league

Starting point is 00:26:41 He's got to be higher than a B-minus, right? I mean like 200 innings with a 3-370 R a Like I think there's less than 10 pitchers in baseball Who had that low in ERA and threw that many innings this year So I still think you're a little on the harsh side, Derek, but I am pleasantly surprised you didn't go Dplus, because that's what I was expecting coming into this. Take what you can get.

Starting point is 00:27:05 Of course, you can get what this guy has to offer when it comes to his writing and his opinion over at go-PHNX.com. If you haven't signed up for a membership, get yourself an annual membership. You will get your first free t-shirt from the PHNX Locker.com. Every t-shirt after that you have to pay for it. But luckily, as a member, you will get members-only discounts over at the PHNX Locker.

Starting point is 00:27:24 And of course, hey, don't marry Derek. You'll be married for 20 plus years and they'll be like, this marriage is a C-minus? Yeah. I don't know how Jen does it. I don't know either. Anyway, get yourself a t-shirt over at the PHNX Locker.com. If you guys get a month-to-month membership, you'll get your first month for just 50 cents.

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Starting point is 00:28:09 so. Charles Woodall Pike in the comment said would definitely be concerned if I had Derek as a teacher at PHNXU, you should be. You should be. That's all I'm saying. I have called the Tampa Bay Rays, the Arizona Diamondback, System. franchise for some time now. This is true. I said it for multiple reasons. I always felt like we were attached to do to our, we were twins. We were born at the same time. Born in the same year. New, new teams, of course, there's a whole history that goes back to baseball arriving here in the valley that actually involves the Seattle Mariners and all sorts of other teams and teams moving around and such.

Starting point is 00:28:46 It's kind of crazy. But we were lucky enough to be born at the same time and the same age as the Tampa Bay Rays, I still hate that name. I still think Devil Rays is a better name. Ray is just a guy with a mustache standing on a street corner looking suspicious. That's what I think of the Tampa Bay Rays. But with that being said, the two teams continue to walk a very similar path, which is almost eerie when we say that. When we say a similar path, we almost mean the two teams are walking the exact same damn path.

Starting point is 00:29:18 Let's take a look at not only some similarities that were shared by DBAX, facts and stats, but this made it over to MLB.com as well when compared to MLB network had literally this screenshot. So shout out to DeBax facts and stats for like going crazy viral with this. Oh, this is incredible. Take a look at these, you know, comparisons between these two teams. We don't know, Jesse and I discusses, we don't know if this includes playoffs, obviously, because the two teams have a different total of games played. So that would probably be the only way that could happen, right, is if this is. Yeah, there are over the course of the last 25 years, if you go through the team's records, there are a few.

Starting point is 00:29:58 I don't think every season was exactly 162. So we're playing the lazy card here, and we haven't added up all the numbers to figure out if this includes the playoffs or not. But frankly, that's just a lot of work. Yeah, that's so much work to figure out. But if you look, the wins and losses, losses identical. Wins, two games difference. The exact same winning percentage. games below 500, very close there as well.

Starting point is 00:30:26 Five division titles, the four division titles. The penance, the rays have been in the playoffs more consistently, not only with those penance, but with the playoff appearances below. However, the Diamondbacks do have the edge when it comes to that. Beautiful World Series victory that we all know and love. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to say.

Starting point is 00:30:47 I mean, so I guess the question is which of these franchises? Would you rather be? Like, would you rather be the debacks or the raise? There is an interesting idea there of, like, the raise have made it more. They are also in a very difficult division being in the AL East. That's hard to win, right? But, yeah, they do have the more consistent playoff appearances. They have more lately, which is encouraging as well.

Starting point is 00:31:15 Yeah. And I think the thing that impresses me with the raise is they seem to be able to do it with ever-changing rosters, you know? Yeah, yeah. They've had a lot of players cycle through over the last few years, and, I mean, they just stay an excellent baseball team year after year. Oh, James Atwood explains it in the chat, by the way. He said, Ray has played only 161 games in 2000, 2002, and 2004.

Starting point is 00:31:37 Yeah, I don't know what the deal was there. That's interesting. Yeah, just comparing these two teams, like, it is crazy how close the numbers are all together. But the two teams followed very different paths to get there. The Diamondbacks made the playoffs in 99 in 2000, of course, won the World Series 2001, made it again in 2002. So they were just an incredible baseball team almost right out of the gate. They weren't good in 98, but they got good instantly after that because of all the money they spent. Whereas the Tampa Bay raise, I didn't realize that before looking this up before the show.

Starting point is 00:32:10 The raise did not have an above 500 season until 2008. They played a decade of baseball in Tampa without having, I don't think they won more than 70 games any of those years. It was a rough start for Tampa Bay, whereas for them, they've turned things around and now have made the playoffs for three or four straight years. So the way that they've gone about it over these 25 years is very, very different. I personally have talked about this quite a bit, but one of the big reasons for that was the change in philosophy. The Diamondbacks very well could have had a team that wasn't successful for 10 years. That was almost the plan going into this franchise existing.

Starting point is 00:32:52 And thanks to Jerry Calangelo. It wasn't Jerry Calangelo's plan. He wasn't. It was not Jerry Calangelo's plan. I wish I had audio of that meeting, but I personally feel like if I reenacted, it would go something like this. Jerry Calangelo enters the room, screams out loud, you idiots! You think people are really going to watch this shit?

Starting point is 00:33:13 That's what I feel like he said. But he was probably more diplomatic about it knowing Jerry Colangelo. Probably. And he definitely did. emphasized to his fellow partners and other people involved with the Diamondbacks that if they did not do something to make this team a winner early on, that this team would not be successful in the city of Phoenix. And to a degree, he might have been right. I mean, we were experiencing a lot of highs and lows sports-wise around that time, but this city at times does not necessarily, isn't a super

Starting point is 00:33:44 supportive city of sports teams that are losers. That's really what it comes down to. teams that lose 100 games like the race did early on, teams that are kind of hard to watch, that have a lot of young players that are developing all at the same time. I mean, to a degree, the Diamondbacks are almost like that now, but the quality of their young players that are playing is very high. So we're seeing a better product on the field. But it still wasn't a winning season for the Diamondbacks last year.

Starting point is 00:34:12 And who knows how long fans would have been interested in coming out to baseball games, had it taken as long here in Phoenix as it did in Tampa. Bay for the team to start winning. You know, I think it's something that to this day still, I remember having a conversation with Travis Lee. And Travis Lee was honestly very hurt by this and by this, the way this went down. Like he was kind of sold as being the star of this team, a young star of a young team that they were going to take a while to build around and make this team good.

Starting point is 00:34:43 But it was going to, you know, the one emphasis was always that it was going to take time. Yeah. And next thing you know, he's packing his bags and head. off to Philadelphia to send Kurt Schilling here to Arizona, which ended up being one of the greatest moves in sports history here in Arizona, but also literally one of the biggest sacrifices as far as, you know, your young players and stuff to make to win a championship. Ultimately, the debacks didn't really have a lot of guys from that early on group

Starting point is 00:35:10 that they parted ways with that came back to bite them. Like there wasn't these all-stars that came from that group. So it ended up being, you know, the right move as far as Jerry Colangelo, was concerned. Yeah. So I mean, I guess in summary, it's like I'd rather, you'd rather be the Rays now, but you'd rather have been the Diamondbacks, like in the late 90s or the 2000s. What if we were still chasing that championship, though?

Starting point is 00:35:32 I mean, like, I don't know how Rays fans feel. Like, I almost feel like there is a certain level of letdown because you can only go down from winning that championship, right? But the Tampa Bay Rays fans are still hungry for that first world series title. They've been to two. They made it in 2000. I don't know how they made it in 2008, honestly. Looking back at the 2008 race roster at first glance, like, huh, interesting.

Starting point is 00:35:56 I don't know how this team made the World Series. But, yeah, the rays have been a really solid team for the last few years. I think they're on about as solid footing as any franchise moving forward. You know what they're really good at is, to be honest, the raise are good at not overpaying anybody and still putting a good baseball team out on the field. Right. That's why, I mean, they're the blueprint for, there have been the blueprint for teams like, the debacks. At least that's what people say. I don't know if the debacks in house are like

Starting point is 00:36:24 talking about the latest, greatest thing that the race do all the time. I feel like the Astros are kind of more of a blueprint. The Diamondbacks would want to follow when it comes to, you know, growing your own talent. I don't know, maybe cheating a little bit there in the middle. Yeah, yeah. And then adding to it when you need to win a World Series. I don't know. But yeah, to me, it's still amazing that those two teams are still so similar, considering, you know, their connection to each other when they came into the league. It's just, it's just amazing.

Starting point is 00:36:53 Baseball is something else really when it comes to it. And like, I don't know how you can't be romantic about those numbers right there. Can we put the numbers up one more time? I do have a slight, a very slight gripe. And this is something that Patrick Lyons, our friend from DNVR,

Starting point is 00:37:09 pointed out. These numbers are uncanny, but maybe not quite as much as you think. Because they're kind of all just restating the same thing. Like, wins and losses, once you know that the wins and losses are about the same, the win percentage of course is going to be the same. And the

Starting point is 00:37:25 number of games above or below 500 is also going to be the same. Shut up. They're just kind of like restating the exact same numbers over and over again. So earlier, so earlier Elizabeth said, I'm not convinced DeBack's fact isn't secretly Jesse, but now I'm convinced that it's not

Starting point is 00:37:40 secretly Jesse. No, I would have but I mean. The redundancy. How dare this person? There's a lot of redundancy in this graphic, but I mean, And in like the, I don't know, the postseason comparison, they've both been like kind of average in terms of postseason appearances. So I'm not like totally. I don't know. Like if you compare two teams.

Starting point is 00:37:58 It definitely feels like the race have made it more times than just two extra times over the D-backs. Yeah. Like you said, which is like recency bias. That's recent. More than anything else. Yeah. Because they have done it more recently and the Diamondbacks have struggled to make the postseason. But we're not the only ones that think that the Diamondbacks are a better team and don't give a shit about

Starting point is 00:38:19 what those numbers actually say. Our boy, Talking Jake also says, except the race are mid and the snakes rule. That's the only fucking fact that matters right there. He's not wrong. Talking Jake is, I still don't really understand where his affinity for the Diamondbacks came from or why he still.

Starting point is 00:38:38 Is that what it was? That's really what it all started. I think it's in his Twitter bio. Yeah. It's like, like, D-Backs fan or something. So once again, all you have to do to win my affection is send me free stuff. Shout out to Roosevelt's.

Starting point is 00:38:50 Anyway, we thank you guys. And shout out to our friends at Moore Furniture that made our office beautiful, our space beautiful. And of course, give us a place to work and enjoy, watch sports, play Madden, all this stuff. But if you can get your house ready for that too, by sprucing up your home during More Furniture's fall sale over at MoreFurniture.com,

Starting point is 00:39:11 you'll receive a $100 gift card for every $1,000 you spend on top of the savings that you can get over at MoreFurniture.com. what do you want to buy for what do you need to buy do you need you still need an office chair are they still like not letting you because of your association yeah yeah i i need to get with max see if we can work something out there i'm sorry i'm sorry that my reputation precedes me everywhere i go but i will get this figured out and of course i'm never allowed to buy another office chair there so maybe i'll just let jesse get one but you do so and don't say you know me there that might not be good for you or your discount say ph and x ain't you don't say darenx yeah don't say

Starting point is 00:39:47 Tootry sent you. Somebody like that. I don't know. Of course, we thank you guys for joining us today here in the chat. We always appreciate you being here. In the meantime, you can follow us on Twitter. I'm at cap underscore Kman with K. Jesse is at Jesse N Friedman.

Starting point is 00:40:01 Our show is at PHNX underscore D-Backs. But of course, all roads lead to at PHNX underscore sports on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. We thank you guys so much for eating lunch with us and, you know, giving us your Merrill Kelly grade. So on behalf of Leah, Jesse and myself, we always appreciate. spending this hour with you and remember kids baseball is fun but it's so much more fun when your expansion team at least wins one world series

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