PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - The Diamondbacks pitching can’t stop the Phillies offense, losing 3 out of 4 at home

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

Despite coming into the series on a roll, the Arizona Diamondbacks cannot stop the Philadelphia Phillies red-hot bats, losing three games out of four. We take a look at the numbers and discuss the impact this series could have on the starting rotation going forward.WATCH YOUR FAVORITE TEAMS HERE: https://www.fubotv.com/phnx SUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtubeALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsports PHNX Events: Get your tickets to D-backs Takeovers, Knockout Nights & Suns Watch Parties at BetMGM, and MORE here: https://www.eventbrite.com/o/phnx-56002330273 Go to omahasteaks.com and enter PHNXDbacks for $30 off! Minimum order may be required. See site for details.Go to https://saturdayneon.com and use code PHNX for 10% off your order today. Free shipping for orders over $200!Gametime: Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase.Manscaped: Save 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code “PHNX” at Manscaped.com. BetMGM: Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code PHNX (betmgm.com/phnx). Place a pre-game, moneyline wager in the amount of at least $10 on any market at standard odds price. You will receive $200 in Bonus Bets instantly regardless of the outcome of your wager! Just make sure you use bonus code PHNX when you sign up!Swing for the Fences: https://promo.betmgm.com/en/promo/sports/swing-for-the-fences 3-Ball Challenge: https://promo.betmgm.com/en/promo/3ballchallengeGambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (CO, DC, IL, IN, LA, MD, MS, NJ, OH, PA, TN, VA, WV, WY). Call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Call 1-800-327-5050 (MA)21+ to wager. Please Gamble Responsibly. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (KS, NV), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help (MI). Visit BetMGM.com for Terms & Conditions. US promotional offers not available in DC, Nevada, New York or Ontario.Pins & Aces: Check out pinsandaces.com and use code PHNX to receive 15% off your first order and get free shipping.Circle K: Text PHNX to 31310 to join the Circle K SMS subscriber club and get BOGO 32 oz Polar Pops! Head to https://www.circlek.com/store-locator to find Circle Ks near you!OGeez!: Learn more about OGeez! at https://ogeezbrands.com//. Must be 21 years or older to purchase.Four Peaks: Follow them on social @fourpeaksbrew & @fourpeakspub! Must be 21+. Enjoy responsibly. When you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Well, the results weren't ideal, but welcome on in to the PHNX VAC's podcast. I'm sorry. I did it, but they did fire. But anyway, welcome on in. My name is Derek Montia, formerly known as your mayor of PHNX. This guy next to me is Mr. Electric, Sean DePaz. Jesse Friedman. We'll be joining us from Chase Field.

here shortly. But in the meantime, let's talk a little bit about today's loss. The Diamondbacks come up just short again. Two games in a row that the Diamondbacks lose to the Philadelphia Phillies by one run. Games that were exciting late and definitely not what we saw in game two drumming, but the Diamondbacks do lose three out of four at home to the Phillies. And just not a great feeling. Ryan Nelson was pretty terrible today. And the Diamondback starting pitching rotation is starting to look a little rough. I mean, we already had back. outings from Zach Allen and yesterday not the best outing from Merrill Kelly. Still, he gave you over six innings and he only gave up three earned run.

So I'm still not mad at Kelly for that. But Nelson today, four innings pitch, 10 hits, five earned, two walks, 5K. I mean, if Jesse was here, he'd probably say he did get some good whiffs on the changeup at times. But if, you know, honestly, he was throwing pretty much wasn't effective with much. is forcing fastball was what he was dealing with. The changeup did look good at times, but Ryan Nelson put the bullpen who was fairly outstanding in quite the predicament today.

I'm just glad to not see these Philadelphia Phillies anymore. Yeah, I thought today might go a little differently because there was no JT Romuto, did not. But yeah, this was a very frustrating series. Every single, like outside of the second game, which was a complete throw away, like they were hitting out all of the games. If it wasn't for the error yesterday, there's a good chance.

I'm not going to say they win that game because they have not been good in extras. They've just been terrible in extra inning so far. But yeah, they definitely had a chance at winning that game. And obviously the error causing the loss feels like it hurts more than just, you know, you hit a home run or something. Yeah, whatever. But when you lose on that kind of play, it really sucks. But anyway, I guess the question that we're going to ask now is do the Diamondbacks do anything with their start? starting rotation between now and the trade deadline because obviously some moves can be made.

I do feel like there is, you know, there's some things to address and the Diamondbacks do have options, even some options that we haven't seen up here at a major league level yet this year. But do you think that we'll see the Diamondbacks maybe call up a Brandon fought or even go to Dre Jameson as a starter between now and the trade deadline? Or do you just think they'll stick with this. Um, because they, we have a while,

right? It's June 15th, trade deadlines August 1st. We don't know how soon the diamond backs are going to make a move, but as it stands right now, we feel like they're buyers and that they're going to be aggressive at the trade deadline based on what Mike Hazen said. So I just don't,

I don't know if we're going to see them do anything to address the starting rotation in the time being. Yeah, I don't, it's tough because I think there's obviously a part of you that wants to make sure you've seen everything before you go out and make moves at the trade deadline so you know exactly what you have. And at this point,

the starting pitching is not doing its job. But on the other hand, it's like who in the starting lineup is really doing their job? Because it's not like your aaces are really getting it done either. So I don't know if it's more of a, you have to look at more of a big picture thing as opposed to at individuals. I mean, we saw what fought was up here and it wasn't great.

Not that he doesn't deserve a second chance at some point, but, I don't know. I think they probably should do something, especially if the starting pitching just continues to be this inconsistent and this frustrating. But I am not sure that I, like, I don't think that necessarily the answer. Like, FOD is going to be the answer. Like, I'm not, I don't think that I think it'd be more of a test as opposed to being like,

okay, this is the movie I have to make and we figured it out. Right. You try it, see if it works. I'm not confident that it would work. You don't want to rely on Fought, though. Yeah, exactly. You don't want that to be your end-all be all like. And obviously, even if Fought struggles, there's, it's.

still him adjusting to a major league level and at one point they still believe that this guy is going to be a quality major league starting pitcher but we talked a lot about the diamondbacks pursuing relief pitching and after today at least for the time being i'm just i'm just being reactionary in the moment but the bullpen was great today yeah uh they went five innings without giving up a run they gave up three hits total dray jameson went two and a third gave up two hits no runs, striking out three. Kyle Nelson, two thirds of an inning, gave up one hit and a walk. Castro, one and a third, one and a third innings, one walk, one strikeout.

Chafin closed things out, two thirds of an inning, one strikeout. So the bullpen got the job done. Yeah, and then it's not, it was a couple of guys to that I think DVX fans were starting to get a little frustrated with. And they came out and turned out good outings, so it's particularly Castro. Yeah, Miguel Castro or, you know, obviously Chafin, like these guys have been overutilized. I know Castro for a period of time there was pretty good, but yeah, he's had a couple of bad outings as Chafin has, as almost everybody in the bullpen at this point has.

But I feel like they're figuring out the reliable guys that they can count on. And it's working for them just today as much as they tried to answer back. And they did answer back with a big home run from Cotel Marte to take the lead briefly. It just wasn't enough. Kyle Nelson, again, five earned runs, gave up 10 hits, just a flat out. terrible outing for him. And also a terrible outing for the three, four, and five hitters in this lineup.

They were flat out awful today going a combined O for 12. And that's Lordus Gouriel Jr. who has just absolutely struggled since returning from injury. Corbyn Carroll and Christian Walker. So those three just not getting a job with four Ks. I didn't even realize he had 0 for four with four

strikeouts. Yeah. And I mean, I tried. I tried to get the hair out. I tried to get the hair going. We tried to do something. And I mean, there's a couple of ways you can look at this, right? Like, A, you got good production from the bottom of your lineup, which is always nice to have. They got tremendous production. It only matters so much when the top of your lineup's not doing anything. And obviously, like, I mean, more obvious, I guess, to us than the team.

But when you're putting Pavin at your starting lineup, you're basically starting your lineup with the two-hole. Like, Pavin is not a real lead-off for a playoff for a dangerous team in the time. I don't understand why they continue. Neither do I. Yeah, I don't, right. It's,

it's, he's been 99. Pavan has struggled and he is not, I mean, that he doesn't offer speed. He doesn't offer consistency with his bat. He's not even like Jake McCarthy, who we saw today once again.

Yeah. Turn an out into a triple. He turned an out into a triple. He should have been out at first base. He slides in. He beats the foot, foot race essentially, wins the foot race,

gets on first. Steal second. causes a throwing error by stealing second gets into third. That's the kind of stuff that you need from a lead off hitter. A guy that is going to do whatever it takes to get on base. Josh Rojas at one point was a very good lead off hitter for this team. He was that kind of guy. Even though he still hasn't hit a home run,

Josh Rojas was able to be the disruptor as we have started calling him and he was able to get on base and make things happen. But one thing that I don't think any Diamondbacks fans will argue with right now, is that we need to see more of Gabriel Moreno at Catcher and not a 50-50 split with Carson Kelly. That's probably not going to be the case. Troy Lavallo is going to do a 50-50 split with Carson Kelly. LeVallo is going to do everything he can to try to get Kelly back on track. And that's something we talked about in the watchalong today,

but it needs to be said more about baseball. Like when these guys get injured, even when they're out for a few days, it can take a whole month for them to get back on track particularly a catcher position. Like there's a whole different aspect of that where you've got to get together with your timing, your pictures of everything. Yeah, it's definitely an adjustment.

And I think ultimately the best case scenario is that you get Carson Kelly back to what we know he can be, which is by no means he's not going to be J.T. Romuto, but he can be a very good catcher. I mean, I keep joking about how he was the best player in baseball last year in the month of June. There was a period of time where he was very good. true like he was he had an incredible month and so he knows he's capable of playing good baseball and so

i think taking the risk of playing him a bunch now even when it might not be the best thing for the team in the hopes that you get him back to what he can be is a worthwhile risk that's the risk but it is a little bit of a risk like you are you are kind of you're selling a little bit at that catcher position at least over these couple of games when you have cars and kelly there because he's ineffective well we're going to take a look at the numbers in the series when it comes to stolen bases but the villas were running all over cars and kelly and that's that's that's the truth today they only attempted one stolen base and they did successfully steal that base on gabby moreno but uh as as we were talking about it was there was a lot going on and there

was a lot in between gabby at that point yeah uh but he was two for four today with an rbi and again carson kelly has just looked a bit lost at lost at the plate uh and i don't know what to say other than like it feels like the diamondbacks are potentially sacrificing wins to try to get these guys going. I understand what you're saying where yes, that is something that is worth the risk at times, especially if we can get both of our catchers, you know, kind of catching fire a bit there and be able to give them that relief of splitting time while both of them are able to be productive. Kelly said it himself, though. He did not want to return to this team until he was right because of how well this team was playing. He didn't want to be a detriment to this team. And in all honesty,

that's what is happening. And it's it's what he knew was going to happen. I think in a way because again, it takes a while for you to get back on track. So you don't want to be out there in the lineup going O for four and being part of the reason why this team doesn't win a game. Yeah. At that point, it's not good for anybody.

Right. It's not good for yourself and anybody. And again, you love the team in a way that you want to see them continue to succeed and you definitely don't want to be part of the reason why they don't. But one of the guys that was the reason that they were in this game. And of course, a big part of the offense today was our King Snake.

And that is Catelle Marte. He was two for four today with three RBI and a home run. And King Snake, our Cotel Marte is our. I think the mouse died. The mouse died on our computer. So no more graphics for the whole show. David, you got to go run and grab a computer phone charger. I was trying to buy him some time there.

But Catele, again, I look good today. He had a scary moment where he thought he might be injured. He didn't look great. We thought we were going to get a toilet blow out there looking at him in the face and seeing if he was hurt.

But, again, great day for Cotele. Yeah, I just feel like we can't say enough about how, how, like, refreshing it is based on this from, like,

the Catelle we got last year. Yeah. And obviously he was dealing with a lot of injuries, which is why anytime you see him grimacing. That's why we, it's a little, it's a little scary. Absolutely freak out.

But, Yeah, I mean, he, he, you mentioned how in an inept, the top of the lineup was, the exception is Catele Marte. And honestly, at this point, I would, I want Catell leading off. I think he would be, I think he has an ability to get on base a lot. And he also has the ability to go yard and break open a game in the first that bad. And I'm that Tori mentioned. That's why I've always liked him in the two hole just to give Catell that opportunity to have somebody on base before him, give him that opportunity to RBI. And it's not like, once you get out of the first inning, it's not like any of that matters anyway.

But it's still like hitting lead off, that's the one thing with with Catelle is he does have the power to drive in guys. He does have that ability. But it doesn't matter. But if that's your reason for not batting him lead off, then you need someone who's better at getting on base in front of him. Like there's no point in doing that if you're going to put Pavin Smith there. Even though he's hitting 306 thoughts on Corby and Carroll leading off. I mean, does that not just seem like the most natural place for him to be? I mean, for a lot of the same reasons that Cattel, you would be would and would not want Cotel leading off.

Right. Not being able to... If anything, it's those things to the more extreme, right? Like, you don't put him an opportunity to drive runners in, which we know he's very capable of doing. He's a tremendous header. 306 with a 977 OPS right now. Yeah, but you want to talk about a guy that gets on base, and when he gets on base has the ability to wreak havoc. Like, yeah.

And honestly, you mentioned him. If we're just throwing anybody at... Jake McCartney? Yeah, put... Lead off. I mean, he's hitting 223 now. So he has a better batting average than Payman Smith. There's no reason why you wouldn't swap those guys.

And that's considering how bad he did before he got sent down. Like he's been a very good hitter since he's come back. And you know he's capable of bunting. You know he's capable of, again, creating havoc once you get on base. And that's what you want from a leadoff guy as a guy that's going to make people uncomfortable as soon as the game starts essentially. And Pavin is clearly not that right now. Right. He's clearly not that.

I don't think he's making anybody nervous or uncomfortable. And I think you have a number of guys in this lineup, like the three that we just mentioned in Cattel, Cotell, Corbin, and Jake. like any of them have an ability to kind of create chaos. They do. And I would, I would rather that than, well, I mean,

really payment doesn't, I think, have a place in this lineup at all right now, but if it is anywhere, it's at the bottom of the lineup. Yeah, I agree. But even then,

it's like the bottom of lot of producing. You want to put him there and do with that. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's hard when he's not, he's not hitting the baseball. Dominic Fletcher is available.

There's other options. I think Dominic Canzone is another guy. We lead the league in Dominics. We talked about that yesterday. But Kyle Lewis. I don't know. We'll see what happens. If I was a betting man and I am a betting man,

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And now joining us from some press box. I don't even think it's a press box. Yesterday it was the visiting GM's suite. But joining us from somewhere in Chasefield, it's the one and only thunderstick Jesse Friedman. Jesse, how are things? How's the... Things are great. Yeah, we have luxury accommodations here in the visiting GM suite.

They take good care of visiting hot dogs in there? I just want to know if they're free hot dogs. No, truth be told, there's a fan and there's a monitor that's maybe 24 inches to watch the game on. Not especially large, but there is an outstanding view from here. I'm honestly kind of jealous, but we get in the press box isn't quite what we got going on here. Yeah, not quite as nice, of course. But not a great, not a great series, not a great loss, another close one that felt like the Diamondbacks were going to maybe come back and take it, maybe split the series.

But what's the mood like with Tori Lovela and the players there at Chase Field? Definitely frustration. you know, the vibes from Tuesday of flush it and move on, I think are very changed today. And maybe yesterday to some degree as well, the Diamondbacks seemed pretty frustrated with this loss. And I think it comes down to the little things. That's what Tori Lavello kind of kept coming back to in his postgame presser today. You know, if they take care of the little things in this game, maybe the outcome is different. And in this game, I think there are a few different things you can point to.

There's Ryan Nelson not covering first base. And what turned out to be a big inning, he was a little bit late over there. Granted, Trey Turner was running up the line. So you don't necessarily know if you'd get him anyway. But that was a mistake that certainly stood out in this game. There was also late in the game. Corbyn Carroll decided to lay down a bunt, a little bit of a tricky read for Cattell Marte, who was on first base. This was in the eighth inning.

But I think with a better slide, I think Cotel probably should have been. and safe at second base. Yeah, his body was there way sooner than his foot actually touched the base. So that's another thing, you know, maybe could have started a beginning for the debacks. But yeah, ultimately, I wouldn't say, at least from my perspective, I don't really view this series as being an egregious loss or anything. I mean, at the end of the day, the Phillies had all three of their best pitchers going in the series. And the Diamondbacks had only one of their two.

So just the way that things lined up was not favorable at all coming into this series. And there's a reason the Phillies have been playing really good baseball lately. They just beat the Dodgers in a series. And they'd want to 8 out of 10 entering this series as well. So they're a good team. They're a much better team than they've shown themselves to be so far this year. And the debacks just caught them at a bad time. That's what I keep trying to remind people is that this team was in the World Series last year.

And they started last season slow too. Like this is a good roster with good pitchers and good batters, but only good batters. Might even be a better roster than last year's team that made the World Series, arguably. And yeah, I think the big thing that we talked about is the mistakes, right? Mistakes piled up in all of these games. Like you could flush that Tuesday game, right? But when you take a look at the other losses, they were close games that the Diamondbacks made a lot of mistakes in all, you know,

all of these games. I said it during our watch-along kind of jokingly, but it almost felt like the Diamondbacks made more mistakes in this series than they have the rest of the season. That's how it's piled up. I mean, base running errors, like you said, with Ketel, we know we saw the big error in extra innings yesterday or the big mistake.

And that's an interesting point or an interesting topic people have been discussing, is that mistake? And whose fault it was? I know that you were there yesterday, and I know that obviously a lot of people who played baseball and were taught baseball as like little kids. I've always been taught that a ball like that belongs to the outfielder. But what did you take away from Jake and his? I think he kind of owned up and took a bit of responsibility for that mistake.

Yeah, he did. It was interesting the way that things kind of evolved yesterday after the game. Tori Lavello initially said that they were both calling for it as loudly as they possibly could, but neither guy could hear each other. When we talked with Jake McCarthy after that, he said that he actually could hear Geraldo Pardomo, but that he was also calling for it and that Pardomo couldn't hear him.

I also heard, or at least if you go back and look at it, some people have told me that what you see is Jake calling for it early but not calling for it late, which certainly would have been a mistake beyond just not being loud enough if he actually wasn't calling for it late at all, and Pardomo was. that certainly would be his fault, I guess you would say. But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it was a miscommunication.

It seems like if, you know, if you have to put the blame on one of those two guys, it would maybe go on Jake and he took responsibility for that after the game yesterday. But at the end of the day, it's a mistake that just can't happen, right? You just, you cannot afford to lose a game like that in that manner. And frankly, you know, I mean, on the whole, maybe it feels like the Diamondbacks kind of got blown out in this series, you know, losing three out of four games. But frankly, they played three games that were basically 50-50 ball games, right? I mean, the Monday game that the Diamondbacks won, you know, the Phillies were within a few

feet of taking the lead there in the ninth inning against Miguel Castro. Literally. You literally within a few feet. And then the game yesterday, obviously, came down to that miscue. And you could make a case today that this game would have ended differently. the Diamondbacks had not made a couple of those key mistakes that they made in this series. So three really close games and then obviously the clunker on Tuesday, although we enjoyed watching Josh Rojas pitch.

But outside of that, I don't think anyone wants to talk about that game anymore. Not at all, but we do have to take a look at the numbers in this series, which definitely don't look great. So let's take a look at those. Yikes, Jesse. Yikes, big yikes for a lot of things here.

Yeah, obviously the starting. pitching ERA is what stands out the most, right? An 8.66 ERA. As I said earlier, the Diamondbacks only had one of their two premier starting pitchers going in this four-game series. That meant that Zach Davies, Tommy Henry, and Ryan Nelson all had to pitch. And we've talked a lot about those three and how three-fifths of this diamondbacks rotation is pretty subpar.

And that very much showed itself in this series. All three of those guys, Tommy Henry, Zach Davies, and Ryan Nelson, they all gave up more runs than innings pitched. And those are the kinds of starts where it's really hard to win a game like that, right? If your starter goes, I think Davies, it was three innings, six runs. Only four of them were earned on Monday. Somehow the Diamondbacks wound up winning that game. But outside of that, it's, you know, it's just really tough when, when your starting pitchers

are frankly uncompetitive. And the Phillies, on the other hand, were actually pretty good. Zach Wheeler was really good. Ranger Suarez was really good. And Aaron Nola, you know, despite a big four-run inning at one point in this game, he was pretty solid today, too. I think the thing that is egregious here is being outdone and stolen bases, Jesse. They were running all over Carson Kelly in those games.

And eight to two in the stolen bases category very much shows what was happening in this series. The Phillies were the ones that were creating chaos on the base path. Yeah, it was kind of like they, it was like they switched roles for a series almost. Like the Phillies were creating all of the chaos on the base pads. The Phillies were relatively sharp defensively in this series, whereas the Diamondbacks really made a few uncharacteristic mistakes. So, yeah, I think in some ways you can feel okay moving on from this, knowing that those aren't the kinds of things that are probably going to happen all that

often for this debacks team. They are one of the best defensive teams in the league. are one of the best base running teams in the league. They do have Gabby Moreno, who has an incredible arm. You don't think that teams will be stealing that many bases against them in a four-game series, all that often moving forward. But, you know, of course, that goes back to Carson Kelly and Gabby Moreno and the split of playing time between those two. A lot of people were not happy to see Carson Kelly play in three games in this series.

Worst loss, today's loss or the extra inning's loss? Obviously both one run, but extra innings lost. I'm saying the extra innings lost just because of how egregious that one, like the Jake McCarthy situation was like the teams. Obviously, you don't know that they win the game, but they give them a much better chance to win in the game if that happens. Like that specific mistake makes that loss a lot harder to swallow. The numbers would disagree with you, though.

Am I right, Jesse? Because they have been terrible in extra innings this year. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about extra innings. The Diamondbacks this season in extra innings are. are 0 for 15. They do not have a base hit in five total innings. That's so awful. Oh for 15. Which is bad. And it's bad enough as it is. It's even worse when you factor in the fact that they start with a runner in scoring position. They start with somebody

on second base and they can't do anything. And the thing that really gets me and Jesse going, the thing that's really frustrating to watch in the extra innings game is the lack of management by Tori Lavello to try to manufacture a run in some way. The Diamondbacks have a lot of speed on their team. They have the ability to do things that can cause the other team to make mistakes and it doesn't feel like they lean into it enough in that particular situation. I don't know if they just clench up and get a little, you know, nervous because the game's on the line and it went when we're getting into extra innings or what, but like that that might explain why sometimes this team has, you know, trouble scoring late in games as well. Like it's not just

extra innings. We've seen this team's struggle just scoring after the fifth inning, it feels like. Yeah, that has been a trend as well. That's true. But yeah, I mean, I asked Tori yesterday after the game, you know, about the struggles in extra innings. And, you know, I mean, the debacks have only moved a runner to third base twice in those five innings. So it's not just that they're, they're getting out, but they're not productive outs. And you can score that runner from second base without necessarily getting a base hit, right? You know, if you're even a productive ground out, you don't even have to bunt necessarily.

You do sort of understand yesterday, Lourdes was the first hitter to come up in that inning. And Tori said after the game that with Lourdes up, bunting was not really an option. And you can understand that, especially with the D-backs down a run. It wasn't necessarily a time to play small ball. Ideally, you're looking for two runs in that situation rather than one.

But, yeah, on the whole, you know, could the diamondbacks try to lean into, you know, the small ball aspect of this team a little bit in some of those moments? I do think if you look at the full body of work in all of the extra innings that they've played, they have not done that enough. They probably need to embrace that a little bit more. And, and yeah, try to try to get out of the rut of just not being able to get that ghost runner home from second. A few concerns about this four game series. It's not just the offense. starting pitching you had Henry going four and two-thirds innings.

You had Davies going three innings. Now you have Nelson going four innings today. Worried about the bullpen being a bit overworked after this series. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I don't think the Diamondbacks can afford to do this for very long. If Ryan Nelson, Tommy Henry, and Zach Davies are all going to have such short starts consistently, that's a problem. You know, even with Dre Jameson back there to provide some.

length and apparently Joe Mantiplied back there to provide some length, too. There's still just not enough manpower in that bullpen to weather that storm. One interesting nugget after the game, Tori was asked if he is fully committed to Ryan Nelson making his next start. And he said that it was under discussion, that it was being discussed. He added a caveat that as they always do, like it's being discussed as it always is, trying to make it sound like that's something they do after every start. not so sure if I fully buy into that.

If you would ask Tori after his start in Detroit, which was pretty effective, you know, are you fully committed to Ryan Nelson making his next start? I doubt he gives the answer, you know, we'll talk about it. He would have absolutely, right? He would have absolutely just gone out and said, of course. You know, he threw five and two-thirds scoreless innings. So I do think that Tori answering that way means probably that the Diamondbacks are considering other options with that rotation spot.

you know, obviously there's three starters here who are struggling, not one, but I think if you had to pick one guy at this point that, you know, maybe it makes the most sense to move on from. Ryan Nelson is probably that guy. As far as who they could go to to replace Ryan Nelson, it's a little bit complicated. You've got Brandon Fott, of course, down in the minors. He's the primary depth option right now. He pitched really well his last time out, but he wasn't particularly good.

His two starts before that in Reno. I don't know if they're quite ready to go. back there. So at that point, you have to wonder if a bullpen game could be on the table for the debacks, something like what the Phillies did on Monday, where they had Matt Strom come out to start the game, give you a couple of innings, and then piece things together from there. I don't know if that necessarily helps with the lack of arms in the bullpen, though. I mean, it's not really a solution to that problem. So, yeah, I mean, the devacs just need those guys to give them more than what they're giving them right now. And in some ways, it

feels like the trade deadline can't come soon enough because, you know, that's probably when the debacks could actually bring in another arm externally. I think that would be pretty hard for them to do right now. Well, and that was our big question in our first segment today, Jesse, was do the debacks do anything with their starting pitching rotation between now and the trade deadline? And I'm not necessarily just suggesting that they're going to make a trade. Like, we know they're going to be aggressive, but we've also added, you know, our own caveat of the fact that, that it's going to be difficult for them to maybe get a high quality caliber starting pitcher. They might go for a reliever.

They might go for something else, right? But do you think that at the very least, they won't do anything with these guys, like maybe send Ryan Nelson down, maybe call up a brand in fought between now and the trade deadline, which is still pretty far away? I mean, we're talking about 45 days away from the trade deadline. or do you think that they could potentially do something sooner than that, like in the immediate future? Yeah, I mean, I think that Ryan,

I don't think Ryan Nelson's spot is particularly secure. I think Zach Davy's spot is probably pretty secure. I think Tommy Henry, for better or worse, his spot is probably more secure than Ryan Nelson's spot. Until I could do something about it, right? Yeah. I don't know if I see the debacks sending down Ryan Nelson. I mean, he's been up here the whole season.

you know, you probably would think you would maybe try them in the bullpen first. But of course, with Dre Jameson, another thing that stood out after the game today is Tori said the debacks are beyond the point of being able to convert Drey Jameson back into a starter. So you could maybe use him as that opener. But he is in the bullpen at this point. And, you know, maybe they would be hesitant to do that with Ryan Nelson, given the lack of starting pitching depth that they have right now.

Jayemason just has different energy coming out of the bullpen. And we kicked around the idea about him even having kind of closer energy. I'm not saying that that's the best option, considering that he can give them such long relief, right? So, like, I like Dre in the role that he's in now. He seems to be having success there. And again, if you want to criticize Tori Lavolo, you could criticize that he changes people's roles too often, right?

And I feel like sometimes some stability in knowing what you're going to play. I'm not saying off days and things like that. But I'm just saying like it feels like sometimes when guys are on a role, Tori goes with like a game planning as set in place, regardless of what's happening in real time. Right? Yeah. 100%.

Yeah. I think there's a lot of Tori gripes in this series, right? Yeah. There's Carson Kelly playing the three games. There's, you know, Corby and Carroll sitting yesterday. with both Moreno and Cotel Marte out of the lineup. Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of, it's amazing how one day the entire fan base loves the manager. And then three days later after a few losses.

We were saying shoe in for NL manager of the year. And now we're like, what is going on? What are you doing? What are you doing? You know, and of course, what really happened here is they played a very good Philadelphia Phillies team. I think that's what it comes down to. And you got to give credit where credit is due.

what Real Muto did at Chase Field was unbelievable. The guy just couldn't stop hitting the ball. Two home runs, two triples, two doubles. Man didn't even see the time for singles, but he stopped and got one anyway on his way to getting a cycle. And that was in the loss. It was a ridiculous series. And I think this guy next to me said it best when he said

he's just happy to see the Philadelphia Phillies go away. Just go away. The first time while you're having. I wasn't having fun. I wasn't having fun watching the Diamondbacks in this season. The Phillies and the Marlins. Those two series have been the games that like it, they feel even, you know, they played them both twice now. And it just, it was a battle the whole time. And then for some reason, they just couldn't figure these teams out. And it's frustrating because we've seen the Diamondbacks have so much success. The way they played in this game was more of what we saw throughout last year. And we pin a lot of the losses on the bullpen last year. But to be honest, a lot of it was on days like this where they just weren't very sharp defensively. They weren't doing all of the little things that they do in order to win games.

Maybe this team has to be relatively perfect in order to maintain the level of success that they've reached. And maybe that's not sustainable. Maybe that's not possible. But it does feel like, you know, that this team was playing like error-free baseball for quite a while before they ran into the Phillies. The Phillies are just so much better than a lot of the teams, the debacks have played recently. Like even, even though the.

Phillies aren't a great team necessarily. I don't necessarily think, as I said yesterday, that they're a walk to make the playoffs or anything in the National League. But there's a huge difference between the Phillies and the Tigers or the Phillies and the Rockies or the Phillies and the Nationals. D-backs have had a really easy schedule recently. And they've played like an elite team in those games, right? You can't ask for anything more than to just run over all of those teams.

That's what the debacks did. but even so there is still this narrative of can the debacks win against the Phillies can the debacks win against the better teams around the league and and lately it's been a little shaky they lost that series to the Braves they lost three out of four here to the Phillies they did win some games early in the season against against good teams right taking three out of four from the Dodgers and whatnot early in the year but that narrative is coming up they have the raise coming up this month at the end of the month they have the Brewers coming up they have some tough teams still left and it's not like uh it's not like they're going to see another month like they saw in in may where may really was just filled with sub 500 opponents that the diamondbacks took care of business against right now what we're seeing them do they're they're getting to a point and it just each month progressively gets harder so maybe it's a good thing maybe you know the diamondbacks were on such a role that now they kind of have a chance to reassess what their true weaknesses are and you know it's

a good time because you know, they talked about being aggressive at the trade deadline. Hopefully they can do some things to improve this team,

but you still have to feel fairly confident that the pieces are here already, right? Like, I'm not trying to, like, say this team is a world

series contender the way they're built. But man, with some of the way that some of the guys that are in the minor leagues have been playing and the way that they have

produced when they've come up to a major league level, it definitely feels like the Diamondbacks could have the pieces. But I, I just don't know starting pitching-wise where where they're going to get some help for Merrill Kelly and Zach Gallen. I mean, no team is, I mean, you look at a team with the Braves who a large part of them, they are self-built.

But like no team is completely self-built. Like any team that wins championships is eventually going to have to go out and acquire top-level talent. It's that third level. It's like three levels, right? And it's like the Diamondbacks somehow moved through two levels pretty fast. We just talked about last year not really knowing who their core was or, deciding on who their core was. And now it feels like they have an established core of young talent to build around. And then it's a mountain with those guys. And then that last piece is like

adding those extra those, you know, calling in those reinforcements and making that team a championship caliber team. And honestly, with the way that Mike Hazen is talking all crazy, it feels like this might be like if he can, this might be his chance to literally skip through all those levels over the course of one season where that usually takes a team longer. you know, to build and figure those parts out. And I mean, yeah, last year was a big part of establishing the core for sure. But that Gabriel Moreno trade bringing him over really felt like it's solidified, like at least four young guys that they can build around and make this team a winner for not just this year,

but for the foreseeable future. I just don't know if they're going to be successful in the trade market at getting those pieces that they need to get them to that next level. I don't think they really have a choice, especially on the start. a pitcher front. I mean, the Diamondbacks need, you can make a case, the Diamondbacks need multiple starters. But getting one starter would make a huge difference.

And even, you know, thinking ahead to what, you know, a five-game playoff series would look like, you need more than Zach Gallen and Merrill Kelly. You just do. I mean, you're just not even a viable team in a five-game series right now. You can't run out Tommy Henry and Zach Davies or whatever it is in a game three and four. It's just, I don't think that's really a viable option for them. So, yeah, Mike Hazen has no choice from my perspective to be aggressive and to maybe try to get these moves done sooner than later, which is a really hard time, really hard thing to do, especially given the scarcity of pitchers on the market.

But the debacks would benefit a lot from, you know, if they're going to go get a Lucas G. Alito or a Marcus Stroman or whoever it is, getting that guy on June 30th is a whole lot better. than getting that guy on July 30th. I don't know realistically if that's going to be possible for them, but I think if you're Mike Hayes and the Debacks front office right now, you have to try to be as aggressive as you possibly can. Well, we know Father's Day is here, Jesse. We know fathers are hard to shop for. I'm hard to shop for.

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I purchased my father one time a sugar-free chocolate bar that was medicated. And he was, it was like one of the five times of life he's been like the most proud of me. I'd never seen such a big smile on his face. But you can also get your dad, of course, 12 packs of four peaks. I mean, again, you think gifting for your dad is hard. It's not. You're just overthinking it. Bring your dad beer and he will just hug you.

You know, any alcohol is great, but Four Peaks is the best way to go. It's the official craft beer, the Arizona Diamondback. So if your dad is a D-BACS fan, of course, grab him some rattle on red ale, or take him to a ball game at Chase Field and hop up to the Four Peaks draft room located on the sweet level down the first base line in Deep Right and have a ball. Also, you can get them some tickets to the DeBacks takeover and come out with us in July. No matter what, you can hook your dad up with Four Peaks. You can also hook teachers up with Four Peaks with their four.

Four Peaks for Teachers promotion. Every year, Four Peaks donate school supplies to teachers around the Valley. They're also giving away $11,000 cash grants and teachers lounge renovation to one lucky teacher, all provided by Four Peaks. To thank a teacher, you can go to Four Peaksforteachers.org and complete the form to enter for their chance to win. Nominations are due on June 30th. So make sure to do that immediately if you want to thank that teacher.

Again, Four Peaks for Teachers.org to nominate. Check out at Four Peaks Brew or at Four Peaks, pub to keep up with the latest at Arizona's hometown brewery, must be 21 or older to drink for Peaks and please drink responsibly. Jesse, thank you for sticking around because we just wanted to talk about these probabilities. And again, we're thankful to see a team that isn't the Philadelphia Phillies. So the Cleveland Guardians coming in here, which were a very hot team last year, and we get a chance to potentially see future Arizona Diamondback, Shane Bieber, and how he will look at Chase Field.

But what are your thoughts on these matchups, especially with Galentine's Day being in game one? Yeah, that's a good pitching matchup. I think Tristan McKenzie is just coming back from the injured list, at least pretty recently. He's good. Tristan McKenzie is really good. He pitched in the playoffs last year for the Guardians and, you know, look pretty good there. So that's a pretty good pitching matchup on Friday. Saturday.

Things are a little lopsided, unfortunately, for the debacks with Shane Bieber against Tommy Henry. And then Bibi against Davies in the finale on Sunday is also definitely advantage Guardians. But at the end of the day, I mean, the Guardians issue this year, the reason that they have the record that they do is that their offense is just sort of falling apart. Jose Ramirez is not having the year that he normally has. Andres Jimenez has taken a huge step back after becoming one of the best young position players seemingly last year. So, yeah, you know, you're not necessarily getting a break from a pitch. pitching standpoint. But this is no Bryce Harper, T. Turner, J.T. Romuto, Kyle Schwerber nonsense. The Guardians, the Guardians do not have.

Some murders row, guys, even though Schwabber's still hitting 176. But yes, I think a little bit of relief. But like we said, the Diamondbacks don't have any more stretches where it's as kind to them as it was during May. So this really is the test. And we've said that they've won against teams that they should win against. And they should be able to take this series against the Guardians. Hopefully, instead of being in such a jovial mood after watching Josh Rojas pitch, they got a little bit of a chip on their shoulder after losing two games by one run to a team that, honestly, they could have beat. That's why I think you love seeing Zach Gowan being the first pitcher in the series, too, especially after a series like this.

Yeah. And Zach's recent stretch, like both the team and Zach himself have a little bit of getting on track to do. so starting this starting the series with with him hopefully getting everybody back on track bodes well for the not just the rest of the series but then on I like Nicholas's comment too he says the athletic

has been talking about how Bieber's velocity is pretty down this year I know Strom could provide a boost to him though let's whoop his ass yeah and like get his ERA through the roof lowers value maybe we can maybe we can get him for a steal maybe we get him on the clearance section the last thing I remember seeing about Bieber and it's like trade value was that people didn't think he would be like an X factor in the playoffs. And so it was going to lower his value.

So if he wanted to lower value a little bit more, get him on the cheat. Let's go. He was really good. I think Bieber was really good his last time out. I don't remember who he faced. I think it was a pretty formidable lineup, though, and he had a really good outing. So, yeah, maybe his values coming up a little bit. But I also heard the same thing that Sean just talked about where I think some executive,

some anonymous executive made a comment. comment about, like, is Shane Bieber actually a needle mover for a playoff team? Does he actually make you all that much better? And we do know that the Guardians, although they have a history of trading pitchers right before they hit free agency, Bieber said to hit free agency after next season. They also do not, they do not compromise on their price very much. They like to really set the bar high. And, I mean, they've gotten it in the past.

They traded Mike Clevenger. They traded Trevor Bauer. You know, they have had some success doing that, but I'm not sure Shane Bieber is perceived around the league quite the same way that those guys are. Yeah, Bieber's last start was seven innings pitch, three hits, zero and runs, nine strikeouts against the Houston Astros. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Yeah, so he had one hell of an outing in his last outing. So hopefully he's coming in with a little bit too much confidence.

Yeah, I like that. Knock him off his pedestal. I like that. Well, hopefully we see the young guys rebound because if they don't, things don't look great for this. Diamondbacks team. But it does look great when you take a look at the All-City Division standings because we still got that double-digit lead baby.

Diamondbacks up 10 games in the division to the next closest team and then everybody else is just way back there in our rearview mirror. I saw the Cubs trying to formulate some plan to get to first in their division and then I looked it up and they are actually with a 30 and 37

record not that far back from first place. Yeah, because the Central Division in both conferences or both leagues is a joke. I also have something pretty interesting about this. I went at the league-wide standings and looked at it, and the Cubs, White Sox, and Rockies are all in order right next to each other towards like in the bottom of the whole league. And they all have, they're all directly next to each other.

That's hilarious. Cubs at 30 and 37 are four and a half games back in the division. Yet they're in fourth place. Rockies currently getting just smoked by the Braves, five one and after two. Yeah, that's about to be. 13 games back. Yeah.

Sorry, Patrick. Sorry, the White Sox are, the White Sox are probably, the White Sox got the Dodgers tonight. They got the Dodgers series or the Dodgers tonight. The White Tots might be the most frustrating franchise in baseball right now. Yeah.

It's so I feel, I don't feel bad for him, but I can kind of empathize with our people over at CHO White Sox. Yeah, that's not easy. And I said sorry to Suez, but I take it back because she's a Phillies fan. Yeah,

she is a Phillies fan. No, no, sorry for you, Susie Hunter. Jesse, Thank you so much for joining us. And of course, make sure to drink plenty of water and get home safe. Text me the minute you're home just so I know you're okay. Text us. Text us.

Yeah, we need both of us to get that chat now. Not just me now. There's two of us that care about you. I'm pretty sure that since I came, you know, during the watch along, I'm pretty sure that I got like the last available parking spot in the Chasefield garage. So I'm at like the open, like the open part of the garage. Oh, gross. Your car's going to be so hot when you get in your superoff door.

I know. It's not, it's not going to be great. But, you know, life is always pretty good in the sick route for, no matter how hot it is. It's true. It's pretty great when you cover the first place team of the National League West, too, buddy. All right. Thank you again, Jesse. Thanks, guys. All right. Well, that's what we got. More furniture. Jesse's got to go get the Chase Loungees.

He's got that whole endorsement deal with more furniture. But if you want something other than a Chase Lounge, make sure to check out more furniture. They have lots of other furniture to offer. I promise you. I know we just dwell on the Chase Loungeers, But this table in front of us came for more furniture. It's very sick.

The more I do shows in this studio, because we used to be in B all the time. Now we moved up. Sean got here. We get up to Studio A. Now we're big time. But we're sitting in the big seats and the big furniture, and I'm enjoying it. These are, these are, these almost feel like thrones compared. Yeah.

It's funny. To the chairs we were sitting there on Cardinal or Coyotes earlier today, Pete was complaining about how since Craig's been gone, they've been demoted to the two-person studio. And meanwhile, his back's been sore and he hasn't, he doesn't get. to sit in these chairs and he's like he literally had to go because he we have some other chairs over there and he had to go switch it out for a more furniture chair so we can be comfy he does he does that's how good their furniture is uh and they also deliver to you with their white glove delivery service so don't lift a finger just tell them where it goes they'll even rearrange other furniture

for you i guess it's craziness but uh check out our friends at more furniture uh say big on the best furniture in the valley when you head to more furniture dot com another great uh father's day gift by the way more furniture get your dad a recliner he will love you forever that is uh i i Yeah. I feel like that is the, like, you think about like dad things, they need a good reclinder. Man, if they got like a recliner with a giant bow on it, can you imagine the tear in the eye? That's going to put your little siblings tie that they got them for it. Yeah, just to shame, absolutely. But you can also check out Foco for our Father's Day gifts. They're the leading manufacturer of sports and entertainment merchandise with a product line that includes wonderful, wonderful stuff,

including peril accessories, toys, collectibles, bobbleheads. Let's talk about the bobbleheads. are incredible you see some of them we lost we left all of our merch yeah yeah our our merch is in studio B and then you got bow in there just doing the Cardinals thing keeping us from you know literally literally gatekeeping us from our photo stuff so upset we had to do our best to come up with some set dressings today but that little tiny could tell Marte with the the king snake around his shoulders would have been so fitting for today considering he was our king snake and of course you can get wonderful bobbleheads like that and so much

more over at phoco.com. Foco always has our back for Arizona sports. You know when some of those other collectible companies don't. And they have yours too. Get the best gear around by visiting FOCO.com and using code PHNX for all non-presale items. Use the code PHNX and you will get 10% off today. Before we get out here, I feel like we got to see the King State graphics. We didn't get a chance to earlier. Let's see it. We don't have the Bobblehead up there, but there he is. Two for four, one day, three RBI. It looks like he's looking at the Kingsnale. It looks like he's looking at your graphic going, damn, Sean, that is a clean graphic.

Whenever we have a king snake, I always try to find where they're looking up. Damn, look at that. I got Kingsnake. Hell yeah. Like, look at how inside it is. Man, great stuff. But I am actually getting out of here.

I am leaving on a jet plane. I don't know when I'll be back again. But in the meantime, these guys are going to hold it down for me tomorrow. I'm sorry. On a jet plane? A jet plane. Are you got a PJ? I am going to Chicago and then Minneapolis

over the course of a weekend in a very short amount of time. How I get there and what I'll be doing there is none of your guys's business. The thing is we knew you were leaving, but no one knew you were on a P.J. car. They got friends on high places over here. Look, I'm just saying. DJ drama called PJ. We have moves to make this weekend.

And yeah, I know it's Father's Day, but that's what Father's Day means I can do what I want. That's what it means. I don't have to spend it with my family. I mean, whatever. We'll face time. I feel bad. So I'm trying to just make jokes about it. That's crazy.

I will be back on Monday. Didn't invite us on the PJ either. No. No. There's not room in the limo from the circus and there's not room on the PJ. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of guys in there already. Ground transportation, I'm fine.

As long as you can get me in the ceiling of the PJ, I'll figure everything else out. Well, make sure to join these guys tomorrow. We're doing a post. They're doing a post show after that first game with the Guardian series. And then we will be back on Monday for our normal mailbag Monday episode, which I think we're doing at 1 o'clock still. Yeah. Yeah. We got a lot of post games next week.

So you guys shall be excited about that schedule. Once we get that up, I think the 1 o'clock show on Monday is the only 1 p.m. show. I think everything else next week is doing postgame stuff. So make sure to join us for that. In the meantime, you can follow us on Twitter. I'm at Kapp underscore Kman with a K.

This guy next to me is at Sean underscore DePaz. Jesse is at Jesse and Friedman. That madman behind the Mac is the one and only Damon. You can follow him at Damon dog. That's DAWG with a little at the end. But of course, our show is at PHNX underscore Dback. and all roads lead to at PHNX underscore sports on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. We thank you again for joining us.

And we hope you guys have a wonderful weekend. I do because I'm starting mine early. But we appreciate you guys stopping by. And remember, kids, baseball is fun. But it's so much more fun when you spend Father's Day with your actual family.