PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - What would MLB realignment look like with addition of two expansion teams?

Starting point is 00:00:08 and welcome in to another edition of the PHNX D-BACs podcast right here on PHNX. My name is Derek Montia. Of course, I am your mayor of Saturday morning cartoons. And I'm joined, of course, by my vice mayor who does not watch cartoons at all. He is your thunderstick, though. It's the one and only Jesse Friedman. Jesse, today we have kind of a complicated situation to unravel here, right? Major League Baseball, of course, has been talking about expanding

Starting point is 00:00:38 to 32 teams for a while now. We know at one point that we did discuss Ken Kendrick's comments about the diamond bags, their situation in Chase Field, and how that there are other cities looking for teams. They would love a Major League Baseball franchise that would already exists and is successful and would make their work a lot easier to bring a new team to a city like that. But Major League Baseball realignment does have to happen in order to have these expansion. teams come into baseball, wherever those expansion teams might end up. And once that realignment happens, that's where things can get very tricky for baseball, not just with how

Starting point is 00:01:21 the divisions are lined up, but how the playoffs work potentially going forward. ESPN has an article on this in regards to how a 32-team league might work. And my first question is, why do they hate the Diamondbacks so much, Jesse. Why does this article start off by basically seemingly blaming the Diamondbacks and the fact that they were the sixth place team, just like the Phillies were the year before in the National League, that get in to the playoffs, they make it all the way to the World Series, they win the National League pennant. And for some reason, in this article, it feels like they're saying that the Diamondbacks run is problematic or not? What exactly point are they trying to get here by almost hinting at the fact that what the diamondbacks

Starting point is 00:02:07 did last year is it's part of the problem with the major league baseball playoffs i mean i think what they're more referring to than anything is just that major league baseball added an extra wildcard spot and the diamond backs got into the playoffs via that wild card spot the philly's got into the playoffs via that wild card spot the year prior and also won the nl pennant uh so there's a narrative developing there and i guess the reason why i take this so negatively is the fact that they almost make it sound like the Diamondbacks had no business belonging there. And if they were in the American League, they wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs and things like that.

Starting point is 00:02:41 Like there's, there's a certain tone to this when describing what happened with the debacks and their postseason run last year that almost feels like we need to make sure this doesn't happen. Yeah. Like we need to stop this from happening. They even go out of their way to one of the points that they make about like how recent changes in baseball assisted the Diamondbacks last year. They say this is from the.

Starting point is 00:03:03 article. It says one of the teams that the diamondbacks held off for the last slot was division rival San Diego Padres, who they last played on August 19th. The Padres wound up two games back of Arizona and the standings. In 2022, under the previous scheduling formula, the teams clash seven times after that date, which almost makes it sound like the Padres, is going to wipe the floor with him, but obviously exactly. Exactly. And it almost makes it sound like under the previous scheduling formula, it was normal to play your divisional opponents six times or seven times every month. Right.

Starting point is 00:03:34 Like a D-BAC just played the Padres 40 times a year. Seven times between August 19th and when the season ends on September 30th. Yeah. Even under the previous arrangement, that was more the exception than the rule. So I think this is more just like using the Diamondbacks to kind of set up the larger narrative here. But it's something that you have brought up before when you talk about expanding the playoffs. and expanding baseball is, the more you do that, the more you water down the purpose of a 162

Starting point is 00:04:05 games season. Right. Then on top of that, you have the idea here now that they are playing their teams in their divisions less. And they are playing inter-league play. They are playing other teams just more often. I mean, we know we're seeing more teams, right? So all of this kind of at times makes it feel like we're holding on to older things.

Starting point is 00:04:27 things that are preventing us from moving the game forward. When I say older things, I mean like that 162 game season, which does feel a little unnecessary now. The division realignment is something that would need to happen. But it's not, it doesn't really feel like it's going to have that same impact that it once did that, you know, like winning the division is so important. And winning the division is your only route to getting to the playoffs. Yeah, it would be, I mean, you know, thinking about expansion, there really are so many different things that baseball could do, you know, would they just have American League, American League and National League, sort of like how the NBA does. And it's just the top, however many seeds where they kind of ditch the divisional setup that they have now and have had for a very long time. Because there are, I mean, there are divisions in basketball, right? Yeah, but divisions and basketball don't mean anything. What is it called? The Pacific Division or something in basketball? It's insane. People spend zero mental energy thinking about NBA divisions.

Starting point is 00:05:29 Winning the division in basketball because, like you said, it doesn't matter. You could win it and you could be the seventh seed. You could win your division and be the number one seat overall. It doesn't impact it the same way that, especially in baseball, it does because if you are one of those division winners and you are one of the teams with the bigger or the better record, you are going to get that buy, which might not be very good for you. a playoff team. We still haven't, the jury's still out on that whole, you know, having, having a buy rounder in the wild card, you know, matchup now. But there is something to be said here about baseball realigning should they have those, those teams and how complicated that would get and what they would do. Yeah, you can't just like, you can't just add two teams,

Starting point is 00:06:16 like one team to each league and be like, oh, now the, now the AL West has six teams and now the NL Central has, like, you know, it'd just be weird to have two five team divisions and one six team division in each league. So kind of the logic would say, all right, well, maybe you go to four divisions of four teams each in each league, like what the NFL has where you have, you would have an NL east, west, and north and south rather than having just the east, west, and the central as we have right now. And there are a lot of different ways. I mean, there's literally, like thousands of different ways that you could that you could arrange that even by just adding one more team to each league. But I think we should start by just talking about expansion as a

Starting point is 00:07:02 whole. Major League Baseball is going to expand. It is going to happen. We don't know exactly when it's going to happen. Jeff Passed in the recent story at ESPN said that it probably wouldn't be until the early 2030s. So I think you're looking at probably about a decade from now when it would actually, when it would actually happen. I thought it would happen faster than that because of Rob Manfred's tenure here wrapping up. Sure. He said, yeah, his tenure expires or is finished in 2029. He said he's going to, he's planning to step away at that point. And he wants to have the teams identified. He wants to have the process moving. But granted, it takes a while to like actually build the

Starting point is 00:07:39 stadiums and get the thing going and all that. So yeah, early 2030s, I think is what you're looking at. And Jeff Passon presents two leaders in terms of expansion. They are in terms of cities for expansion. They are Nashville and Salt Lake City. Nashville, Tennessee, and Salt Lake City, Utah are the two markets that pass and proposes are the frontrunners right now. And he still mentions a whole lot of other ones. There's still Charlotte. There's still Portland. There's still a host of other cities that are interested and would certainly like to be part of these conversations. This could change. But yeah, Salt Lake City and Nashville are kind of viewed as the front runners right now. And so you think about, all right, if we add, if we add a team in Salt Lake City, if we add a team in Nashville, now we have 32 teams.

Starting point is 00:08:25 You know, we have to break them up in kind of a different way than before. It presents a math problem that I think you could work at tirelessly for days and days on end, years and years on end, really. There's so many different ways that Major League Baseball could handle that. Well, let's take a swing. Let's take a crack at figuring it out for them, shall we? Yeah, of course, this is going to be a completely a fruitless endeavor. But I think one of the things that would need to happen as much as people would absolutely lutely hate it is I think we need to move on from like just completely change divisions,

Starting point is 00:09:05 completely realign everything, right? Now, one of the things that cause divisions to be the way they are in every sport is proximity to each other. and that is due to travel. You know, you're going to play essentially the teams in your own division more in theory, and you still are than other teams in baseball. So you want to travel less, and that's something that needs to make sense. Now, with that being said, I feel like we're, it's like where do the American League

Starting point is 00:09:35 and National League like West teams fall and when do we start dividing them into this or that, right? Like, you could almost move like, you could, you could almost move like you could, you could almost have the Mariners in there with the Giants, in there with the Angels, in there with the Dodgers, Dodgers and the Padres. And like right there is your. Yeah, it becomes so complicated because you have both National League and American League teams. It's like, are we talking about just rearranging things within the National League and rearranging within the American League? Or are we like crossing teams over now.

Starting point is 00:10:07 We're like, oh, the Mariners are now a National League team. So this is going to be like a what, like a four team division at this point with eight divisions total, right? So the NL West, presumably, if they did the east, west, north-south thing, the NL West would lose a team. So instead of it being Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Padres, Giants, Rockies, one of those teams would get thrust away to the south, maybe? I don't know. Well, I mean, yeah, you're right, because with no central, where are we going to go? Like, the Diamondbacks could fall into that kind of division, right? You have too many teams on the West Coast for them to all be that, and you're going to have the A,

Starting point is 00:10:45 for the meantime playing in Oakland, but they will be in Las Vegas. So it feels like the Oakland A's and the Colorado Rockies should probably be in the same division. I don't know where that would lie. And I think the Diamondbacks might be in there, right? Like, I don't know. I mean, there is, like you said,

Starting point is 00:11:02 you could do a South with maybe the Diamondbacks, the Dodgers, the Padres, and the Angels. I want to do everything I can and my power to get out of the Dodgers division. Yeah, I feel like the only question that matters to Diamondbacks fans is can you be rid of the Dodgers? How can we get out of the Dodgers division? Yeah, that's the key here.

Starting point is 00:11:18 And that's tough. And they probably don't want the Angels and the Dodgers playing in the same division. So, I mean, an AL West, let's say, just for right now, would have to consist of the Mariners, have to consist of the A's, have to consist of the Angels. Yeah, the team that like doesn't really belong in the A. Well, I mean, the Mariners, the Angels, and the A's all make sense as being sort of West Coast teams. But then you have the Rangers and the Astros in the A.L. West. One of those teams presumably would get thrown out. Wait.

Starting point is 00:11:50 No, I got it. My head hurts, Derek. Hold on. Hold on. I got it. I got it. I got it. So we have the Mariners.

Starting point is 00:11:55 We have the Angels. Right. We have the A's. And then we have the new Utah, the Salt Lake City team. Oh, you're right. You're right. You're right. That makes sense.

Starting point is 00:12:06 And then maybe the Rangers and Astros become South. Yeah. Become AL South. Right. Right. Right. You could put the race and the ALS. South?

Starting point is 00:12:15 Sure. Couldn't you? Yeah. Let's do it. Realistically. And let's, I mean, I don't know where, see. And then where else does those teams? Because now the Giants, the Dodgers and the Padres and Diamondbacks just are going

Starting point is 00:12:26 to be stuck together. We're just stuck together. That's it. And I mean, we're going to be the West Coast, but like I don't know how to get the Diamondbacks out of there because there's no team geographically that makes sense for them to be in there. And then the Nashville team, if we're putting the Utah team in the American league has to be in the National League, right?

Starting point is 00:12:43 So that Nashville team would be an NL South team. NL. South, potentially. With the Braves and the Marlins and the nationals? Sure. I mean, I like it. How can I say Washington, D.C.

Starting point is 00:12:56 is fucking self, Jesse. I mean, it's like, Southish. It's close enough. No, I mean, looking at a map of all these teams we're doing right now, obviously you guys can't, we can't, like, show this on the screen or something in an audio podcast. But it is fascinating to me that certain central teams are actually, further east than some of the east teams. All the teams are in like one quadrant that it feels like they're all the game.

Starting point is 00:13:19 Like the Braves, at least from this map, it appears the Braves are actually more central than either like the Tigers or the Guardians to our central teams. Yeah, that's a good point. Which is just sort of makes my brain hurt even more. But yes, all that to say, it is hard to find a situation where the Diamondbacks be rid of the Dodgers. If you're just looking at the NOS and you're thinking about which team doesn't belong, geographically. The Rockies are probably the easiest answer to that question because they're definitely more centrally located. It'd be hard to put the Rockies in like the north or the south because they're right in kind of the middle of the of the country, latitude wise.

Starting point is 00:13:58 I would put them in what I've been calling the NL North, which is the Rockies, the Cardinals, the Cubs and the Brewers. The Cubs, Brewers and Cardinals need to stay in the same division. They cannot leave each other because they hate each other so goddamn much, Jesse. And they're so close to each other that we can't do that. So then we have those four teams in the National League North. The AAL North could be the Twins, the Royals, the White Sox, and the Tigers. Twins, Royals, White Sox Tigers, interesting. And see, again, the Royals are right there on that same position.

Starting point is 00:14:31 So you're throwing the Guardians out, basically. I'm throwing the Guardians out of their division. They're north maybe. Or no, you're saying that's North. That's North. I would put the Guardians in the East. Okay. Toronto, Guardians, New York, Boston.

Starting point is 00:14:46 And then... Wait, wait, no, you have the Orioles still. Where the fuck are we going to put the Guardians? Where are we going to put the Orioles? Because the Orioles, Yankees, Red Sox, that's your East. And then you have one other team. And you're not going to put the Guardians over the Blue Jays, which are further East. So it's like the AL East just stays the same and loses the Tampa Bay Race, who goes to the South.

Starting point is 00:15:09 Yeah, the raise, it feels like they would have to be in the South. Yeah. So you have the east, the south. The south is Houston. The south is Texas Rangers. The south is the race and. Maybe the nationals. That was the other one.

Starting point is 00:15:23 Yeah, I think you would think you had said that earlier. But then you're moving in. No, that's the NL South. Maybe that's where Baltimore comes in. As Baltimore is becomes south. I mean, they're just as, they're almost as far south as Colorado is or the Royals are. And we're putting the Royals and the Rockies in the north.

Starting point is 00:15:40 So one other... It doesn't work, Jesse. It's impossible. One other potential arrangement that was also discussed in an ESPN article is what if you had 18 divisions? You had four eight team divisions. So just two divisions in the NL, two divisions in the NL. That works better. That works better, honestly, because then you literally just have an East and a West.

Starting point is 00:16:03 And if the team falls... Because the division between East and West is easy. The only difference is you would have to cut it. off where all of the twins, Royals, Rangers, and Astros are all in the West. Because otherwise there's just too many teams on the east side of the injury. You might even have to pull in like the Cardinals potentially to make it work.

Starting point is 00:16:23 I can't count right now. But you know what I mean? Because the new Utah team would obviously be part of the West. The Nashville team would be part of the East. So that makes that easy as far as where the new franchises would fall in. Oh man. There's just, there's so much clustered there in the Northeast part of the country that it makes it so hard to call anything else, any other division at all, you know?

Starting point is 00:16:45 Yeah. There are eight teams in the west or mountain part of the country right now. And those time zones, I guess is really what I'm talking about, like Pacific Time or Mountain Time. You have the Rockies, the Diamondbacks, the Padres, the Dodgers, the Angels, the A's, the Giants, and the Mariners. And then everybody else, all the other 22 teams are all in the central or in the Eastern time zone. Right. So, again, that's where we have to start pulling. the twins, the Royals, maybe the Cardinals, maybe the Rangers, maybe the Houston Astros all over

Starting point is 00:17:14 to the west. If Salt Lake City were one of the teams that came in, that would complicate things because they need up nine teams in that West Mountain time zone. And whether you're doing 14 divisions or 18 divisions, one of those nine is going to have to get thrown out and become part of one of the other, uh, somewhere else, whatever, whatever that arrangement looks like. You were right. This is very complicated.

Starting point is 00:17:36 It's extremely complicated. Yeah. I like it. I think it might, it would be a fun. experiment to just like, we, to just like go out and just come up with examples of what it could actually, what it could actually look like. And I feel like you could, you could probably pick out problems with any potential arrangement that anyone could, like, oh, this geographically doesn't make sense. Or, oh, wait, you're separating. These two teams, those two teams have a rivalry.

Starting point is 00:18:00 They need to be in the same division. Right. It's hard, it's really going to be hard to check all those boxes. But it's kind of fun to just look at, you know, what it, what it could maybe look like. So maybe I'll try to do that at some point. But yes, the burning question of can the diamond backs be rid of the Dodgers? I'd have to get really creative to make that happen. When I heard baseball players talk about how much they hated the colors of their rivals, like the AL East and like some of those parts, like the Phillies and the Mets and how much they hate each other and how much they hate the Braves.

Starting point is 00:18:39 to the point where it's silly because to me the Braves and the Phillies look like they have the same colors. But don't tell that to a Phillies player because he will tell you how disgusting those colors are. It's a different shade of blue too. It's definitely a different shade of blue. They will get on you about that shit. But no, I mean, the rivalries are real and you can't just all of a sudden up and change things. And baseball is changed. It's not a situation where you're going to play your own division so much that those rivalries still aren't there.

Starting point is 00:19:08 should one or two of those teams get split up. You know, you're still going to play them just slightly less than you play your own division, right? What, like four times less or six times less or something? I mean, if it's a National League or American League team and you're still playing in the same, you know, league, nothing's changing there. I just, I think that there are some things to preserve. It's just funny when you're part of the rivalry that kind of gets the short end of the stick. When it comes to the Diamondbacks Dodgers rivalry, I want no more of this rivalry.

Starting point is 00:19:37 I'm done. Waiter check please. I'm ready to tab out on this rivalry between us. Okay, let me ask you that here's a question that we actually can opine on. If it is in fact Salt Lake City and Nashville, which one do you want in the National League? If you have to pick between those two, which one do you want? That's a crazy question. Which one do you want the Diamondbacks to play more?

Starting point is 00:20:01 You're asking me if I want Nashville in the National League, Jesse. of course I want Nashville in the National League. For more than one question, for more than one reason. You know I'm selfish. You know I'm a very selfish person. You would much rather visit Nashville. You know I would rather visit Nashville to go to Utah. I'm not going to Salt Lake City.

Starting point is 00:20:20 I don't ski. I don't snowboard. I have no interest in that state. I need to go to Nashville. There's parties there, Jesse. I don't even like country music and I'd still have a blast. It's a little warm in the summer, though. Yeah?

Starting point is 00:20:32 I'm good with warm. It's the cold that I don't do well. It's a different kind of. warm in Nashville. I mean, I wonder, I wonder if Nashville would have a roof on their stadium. That's good point. Because like, well, too, I mean, I know that like the Braves don't and the Braves are even further south of Nashville. So like maybe that's a dumb proposition. But if I were a Nashville, like sports fan, I would maybe want air conditioning. I don't know. It's a good point. It's a good point. Maybe, maybe Salt Lake City needs a heater. I mean, they need a roof to keep things warm inside of it.

Starting point is 00:21:04 I mean, it's not like unreasonably cold. like in the middle of summer. I guess, I went there once and it was freezing. That's all I remember. That's all I remember. But of course, you know, you also have the A's moving in Las Vegas and how that would impact things geographically. And, you know, you're right.

Starting point is 00:21:18 So like cities colder than I thought. Yeah, it is colder than you thought. It's supposed to snow. Like, it's supposed to snow on Sunday. It's freezing. Yeah. In February, in March, Jesse, it's going to snow on March 4th. Oh, anyway.

Starting point is 00:21:31 All right. Well, that's all we got for you guys. Can't wait to talk about this more. maybe Jesse and I will put out there our new divisions once we figure that out. I'm sure we'll talk about this. We're going to find a way to get the Dodgers outside. Yeah, we're not fixed this. One way or another.

Starting point is 00:21:45 We'll definitely fix this. But we do appreciate you guys for joining us on this podcast. We thank you as always, and we always appreciate your time. You can follow us on Twitter. I'm at Cap underscore Caveman with a K. Jesse is at Jesse Henn Friedman. Our show is at PHNX underscore DBEX, but of course all roads lead to at PHNX underscore sports on Twitter, Instagram, and

Starting point is 00:22:05 Facebook. Thank you guys so much for your time. We appreciate you stopping by and remember kids. Baseball is fun, but sometimes it's also very, very complicated.

PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - What would MLB realignment look like with addition of two expansion teams?

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