PHNX Arizona Diamondbacks Podcast - Zac Gallen DECLINES Qualifying Offer to Explore Free Agency

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

The Diamondbacks enter the offseason with a clearer picture after Zac Gallen officially rejected Arizona’s qualifying offer at Tuesday’s deadline. We break down what Gallen’s departure means for the rotation and the work now facing Mike Hazen and his front office. We also look at other moves around the league, including who accepted their qualifying offers and how the Mets are eating $17 million by designating injured starter Frankie Montas for assignment. Jesse Friedman from Snakes Territory joins the show to analyze the D-backs’ roster decisions ahead of the Rule 5 deadline, including the surprising move involving Tommy Henry.JOIN THE SUPPORTERS CLUB ➡️ https://tinyurl.com/yc6km2r4An ALLCITY Network ProductionSUBSCRIBE to our YouTube: https://bit.ly/phnx_youtubeALL THINGS PHNX: http://linktr.ee/phnxsportsMERCH https://store.allcitynetwork.com/collections/phnx-lockerALLCITY Network, Inc. aka PHNX and PHNX Sports is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by the City of PhoenixPHNX Events: Get your tickets to PHNX events and takeovers here: https://gophnx.com/events/ALLCITY — including us here at PHNX — is teaming up with Big Brothers Big Sisters of America for an exciting three-year partnership. To learn more, visit https://www.bbbs.org/allcity/APS:  Find instant rebates, discounts and special offers on smart thermostats, energy-efficient appliances and more at https://marketplace.aps.com/default/heating-cooling/smart-thermostatsBranded Bills: Use code BBPHNX at https://www.brandedbills.com/ for 15% off your first order!Husband & Wife Law Team: If you’ve had a serious injury, Call The Husband & Wife Law Team first at 602-783-8841 or visithttps://husbandandwifelawteam.com/?utm_source=allcity-padcasts&utm_medium=digital-phx&utm_campaign=allcityShowNotesChicken N’ Pickle: Family friendly fun awaits! Visit chickennpickle.com to plan your visit today!Access Auto Insurance Agency of Arizona, LLC (Access Auto) is a renowned agency offering personal and commercial auto insurance options to Arizona residents. If you’re on the hunt for a new policy, call Access Auto today at 1-480-400-0546 or get a free insurance quote by visiting our website www.access-insurance.com.Visit https://www.macu.com/accounts/checking/mystyle-checking?cid=ea-PHNX-AZ-mystyleAugust2025-checking to learn more about their MyStyle Checking Accounts!bet365: https://www.bet365.com/hub/en-us/app-hero-banner-1?utm_source=affiliate&utm_campaign=usapp&utm_medium=affiliate&affiliate=365_03485317 Use the code PHNX365 to sign up, deposit $10 and bet $5 to get $150 in bonus bets!Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and physically located in AZ.  If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-NEXT-STEP, text NEXTSTEP to 53342 or visit https://problemgambling.az.gov/Gametime: Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply.Shady Rays: Head to https://shadyrays.com and use code: PHNX for 35% off polarized sunglasses. Try for yourself the shades rated 5 stars by over 300,000 people.Circle K: Join Inner Circle for free by downloading the Circle K app today! Head to https://www.circlek.com/store-locator to find Circle Ks near you!Monarch: Use Monarch to get control of your overall finances with 50% off your first year at https://www.monarchmoney.com/phnxWhen you shop through links in the description, we may earn affiliate commissions. Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome in to another edition of the PHNX D-Bex podcast right here on PHNX. I am your mayor, occasionally known as Derek Montia, and I'm thrilled to be joined by my buddy and your Thunderstick, the one and only Jesse Friedman from Snake's territory. Jesse, after a drought of news, after a drought of actual Arizona Diamondbacks news to talk about, we are now flooded now that the deadline has come and gone yesterday afternoon. Of course, this show is brought to you by our friends over there at GameTime. Make sure to download that GameTime app. Create an account use code PHNX for $20 off your first purchase. Terms do apply. And again, maybe wait a little while and get yourself some Diamondbacks tickets

after we talk here a little bit about what 2026 could look at. But yes, Jesse, we have breaking news essentially yesterday that Zach Gallen has accepted, or excuse me, not accepted the Diamondbacks qualifying offer, actually quite different there. That's quite a screw-up. He has rejected the Diamondbacks qualifying offer, which is something that we knew, I think, was coming. I did feel like there was a little bit of a window open for him

that made sense for him to come back. And even after seeing some of the other names that did accept qualifying offers, it might have made sense for Zach to come back. But the debacks will receive the additional draft pick in between rounds one and two. And again, I guess, Let's start off with your thoughts. Any surprises hearing this news that Zach Gallen did not accept the qualifying offer? Not really.

Yeah, it really would have been news if Zach Gallen had accepted the qualifying offer. I mean, that's, you know, that's emergency pod level stuff right there. Yes, for sure. But, yeah, I mean, this I think we've known was coming for at least a month plus at this point. I guess, I mean, I guess more than that because Diamond VIII. season has been over for a little while now, two months plus. There was, I think, a time in the middle of the season, maybe even at the beginning of the second half of the season, where it wasn't clear to me how this was going to go.

I mean, Zach Gallen was not pitching well enough to be a, you know, no-brainer, slam dunk, reject the qualifying offer and go get your big contract type of guy. Obviously, Gallen is still not, you know, I'm not expecting him to go and get $200 million, which felt like a possibility going into the year, but I still think he's going to do pretty well for himself. And it would have been a pretty big shock for me if he had accepted the qualifying offer and stuck around for another year. I think we heard from Gambo a few weeks ago, in fact, that he had said based on information

he was told Gallen was not going to accept the qualifying offer. Like you said, there were some things during the season that definitely made us think that perhaps this was going to happen. and quite frankly, Gallen finished 20, 25 strongly, right? Like he really did turn things around. I do think baseball executives have far more information and far different feelings than fans do. Fans of the Diamondbacks seem to be kind of applauding the fact that Zach Gallen is gone, applauding the fact that he declined this offer and will no longer be a part of the team.

However, I still think that Gallen returning would have fixed one of the biggest problems the Diamondbacks have. The only problem with that is that it really wouldn't have been an upgrade of any kind. There's no excitement about bringing Zach Gallen back, only people keeping their fingers crossed that he will figure it out and turn things around. If you bring in a new guy, even a guy that had a bad season in 2025 with another. team. I think there's a different level of hope within the fan base and probably within the organization that the results are going to be different and the change of scenery is going to be good for him. And perhaps if they do go after one of these free agents that just kind of had a bad 2025 year, that guy can turn it around. Right. Another team probably sees that in Zach Gowan,

but I don't know if, you know, the fans here had had that feeling. And it's kind of unfortunate because Zach Gallen gave this organization so much in his time here. It's unfortunate that he kind of goes out with a like a fizzle, you know, like a bit of a whimper here instead of it being more of a celebration of what he did for this team. It really would have been, I mean, again, I was not at all expecting this to happen, but just as a thought experiment, like what would the reaction have been from the Diamondbacks fan base if Zach Allen had accepted the qualifying offer. I mean, on one hand, like, yeah, I think it, I think it might be.

I mean, on one hand, it's like this guy clearly, I guess, wanted to be in Arizona, maybe to some extent. I mean, it certainly feels like he could have done better on the open market, certainly could have gotten more than just a one-year guarantee. But yeah, like, $22 million is a decent amount of money. I mean, we don't know exactly how much the debacks have to spend. this off season, but I think it's pretty safe to say that 22 million would be a significant chunk of what they're ultimately going to spend. It's not like Zach Gallen had a great season

in 2025. If he accepted that qualifying offer, and I have set it on a few podcasts, like, yes, it solves a problem, but it also creates one very quickly because yeah, we're we're estimating between 30 and 40 million, right? But I think 40 seems like a lot. lot based on what they are already committed to for next season with contracts increasing, you know, things like that going up, like they have less money overall to spend on the exact same players that are already here. On top of that, though, you know, again, it's Zach Allen taking up 22 million of the potentially, let's just say for argument's sake, 35 to 37 million.

Like, that does not even leave them with enough money to go out there and get. really like more than one quality player. They are truly at that point shopping in the bargain bin. And it's, you know, it's already something that they're going to have to do if they're going to try to fulfill all of their needs through free agents. I doubt that's the case. I don't think that they can. I think they'll have to do something else, like make a trade or quite frankly just deal

with the solution to some roster problems being in-house, right? And that all would have been created by Zach Gallen accepting that qualifying offer for simply one year at $22 million in change. Yeah, I mean, I think the debacks are probably going to be, as you're kind of saying, like they're probably going to be doing some bargain shopping no matter what. But especially if Gallen had accepted this, you figure, yeah, we don't know what the number is. Maybe it's 15 more million that they would have to spend. it's hard to get another starter and a closer and probably another back end reliever. They need a right-handed bat in the lineup, probably some other position player pieces as well. Like, I don't know how you do all that with $15 million.

I also don't know how you do it with, you know, 35 or whatever it is that they actually do have to spend. That's still not an easy equation to make fit together. We just did an episode over at Snake's Territory where we were sort of like, Is the debacks offense or offseason kind of doomed before it begins? Like is this is a possible task that this front office is facing? And I don't know. It might be. I mean, on paper, it's really hard to imagine them getting enough impact with the money that we think they have to spend without going crazy with trades.

And I mean, maybe the debacks will. I mean, maybe they'll be really aggressive on that front. We have gotten some reporting that they are willing to move. prospects. They're willing to move some of these talented young position players that they have in their farm system. But yeah, you also want to be reasonable about it at the same time. Jesse, not only do you have to be reasonable about it, but you also can't mortgage the future too much. And at the same time, you can't squander Corbyn Burns' time with this team. Right? Like both of those things are kind of going on at the same time. Because

it feels like the Diamondbacks are getting very close to maybe not a rebuild, but a retool. Young players are going to be very important to that, as we've seen over the last few years. Look at how much Geraldo Perdomo and Corbyn Carroll mean to this team, right? We have potentially more of those in the farm system, and it's all about developing them and giving those guys the opportunity instead of committing all of your money to high-price-free agents that don't necessarily work out for you. Also, something I talked about on yesterday's episode that I find kind of inferior. is that fan graphs was talking about the roster crunch for the debacks.

And we covered their article on that. And one of the things they discussed was the Diamondbacks trading Dre Jameson away because there are teams apparently in Major League Baseball that believe in Dre Jameson being a starter still. And I was like, what are we doing? If people believe Dre Jameson is a starter, why don't the Diamondbacks believe Dre Jameson is a starter? On one hand, they might know something we don't or might feel a certain.

way about it that we are not privy to. However, you know, if that's the case and someone believes that Trey Jameson is a starter, then on the flip side, you should probably trade Jay Jameson and get a significant amount and then make us sad when he ends up being a starter with another team and posting a sub four ERA and somehow being a stud in a starting rotation, right? Like I don't understand based on the small sample size what makes them think he can't be a starter, but the diamond back's exact need is like a cheap option to give them some games in the starting rotation that could potentially be a convertible reliever, long reliever, high leverage reliever later on in the season.

That sounds like Trey Jameson to me, so I don't know. But back to Zach Gallen, obviously as a free agent, it's going to be interesting to see what he gets. I do think Gallen will probably get at least a two-year, $50 million deal, which makes the opting out of the contract makes sense, right? And you never know, right? Like, it's crazy, but I am not suggesting this is possible or even something that's in the future, but maybe things aren't as great for him in free agency.

Maybe Zach Allen does come back to this team. I mean, like, that would still be a problem as far as the finances and everything. It would cost him even more than him accepting that offer. But, you know, it's not to say it's completely out of the question. It just does feel like this is the end of the line. line for Gallin with the Diamondback. So not ready to tap our cap to him and tell him to thank you for his time here yet. We will do that when the time comes.

But again, just kind of allows the Diamondbacks now to know what their game plan is. I'm sure they were already kind of planning for Gallin to not accept that qualifying offer, but they can now figure out how they make this team competitive for 2026. Gallin is just a fascinating free agent case to me. I mean, this is a guy who we've seen can pitch in big games. I mean, has the stuff to be an ace caliber arm at his best.

Some of his best games were big games this year, right? Like some of his big, that's what the joke was, was like he was only stepping up when it was like a New York team or somebody big, right? Like, you'd be incredible in those games. You should probably go sign with the Mets or the Yankees is probably. He's probably going to, so we know that. We've already been feeling that.

But yeah, I just think that Gowan is, he's just such a wildcard for me and for agency. I mean, I could see a team really betting on Gowan bouncing back and looking at the numbers that he posted in the second half. You alluded to those numbers earlier. I mean, from, I guess this is from the trade deadline onward at 65 innings with a 332 ERA. I mean, that's pretty consistent. That's pretty good. with the Zach Gallin that we've seen the past few years. Yeah.

So, I mean, I could see Gallin getting five years over a hundred million. I mean, I think Joe Bowden had five and one 30 or something like that, five, 135, I want to say. But I've seen other people predicting, you know, I think there was one that was like two in 40 or something, which seems outrageously low. I would be shocked if it was that low. But he's a really interesting case. I mean, who do people think this guy is? He doesn't have, you know, he's not throwing. 96 miles an hour. He doesn't have nasty stuff.

But his stuff isn't all that different now from where it was a couple years ago when I think he probably would have gotten, you know, 150 plus million dollars if he had hit free agency a year or two ago. Yeah. Yeah, that's unfortunate. Jeff Passen discussed Gallen. He said the home run ball vexed him with a career high 31 given up nearly twice as many that he averaged in his previous four seasons. And that's something we've definitely discussed before the gallon just couldn't seem to not give up those home runs he couldn't seem to not give up that big inning right like it was similar to brandon fought where even when zack gallon was cruising some inning was going to get him out of nowhere and it was going to be like wow that i felt like

he pitched better but his line is like five innings pitch six earned runs like i don't yikes i this seemed much better but uh yeah uh passing went on to say some teams see that as a sign uh that worse is ahead. Others believe it's an outlier and that he's in line for some positive regression. Gallen will benefit from the most from the high prices being asked on the trade market, which serves to turn teams back to signing free agents. And so, yeah, that's where Gallin benefits here. And I hope he gets it, right? Like you and I, we get a, we get the, we are blessed to spend as much time as we are around these baseball players and get to know them. And Gallin is one of the guys that I have covered his entire tenure here with the Diamondbacks, and I know you have as well.

He is a great person. He's just a real, like, easy going, nice dude, and I just really do hope that he gets that big payday that he deserves. It sucks that one season is what could prevent that, what could be a roadblock for him, but I don't think it should be. I think Gallen, you know, deserves it. And quite frankly, I think the Diamondbacks need to have. have a little bit of a change here themselves.

So I think this hopefully works out for everybody. And Gallen can go perform elsewhere, but most importantly, get paid and get that security that he deserves after, you know, the tremendous MLB career he's had so far. I guess one of the complicated things, if you're in Gallin's camp right now, is that by rejecting the qualifying offer,

he is going to have draft pick compensation tied to him. Oh, yeah. And the devax will be the beneficiaries of that. I mean, for 50 million or more, as you said earlier, they're going to get a draft pick right after the first round, which is a big asset for them. But it also means the team that signs him is going have to weigh like, you know, are we willing to give Gallen $100 million and lose a draft pick in order to make this happen? It's a good point. I think it might hold back his,

his, you know, his free agency case a little bit. Like, sure. Gallen is a good player and I think he's a solid candidate to bounce back. But are you willing to make a big financial commitment and surrender a draft pick for a guy at a 483 ERA last season. Like, you can see where some of the lower estimates are coming from. Like, I think it is reasonable for a team to be like, no, we would give gallons 60 million, but we're not going to go much higher than that because we're also surrendering a draft pick. And he's coming off by far his, you know, his worst season in the majors. Yeah, you're not wrong.

And also the Diamondbacks and qualifying offers have always kind of been weird. they haven't had much success in their history of players accepting qualifying offers. So we should have seen this coming. All four players that the Diamondbacks have made qualifying offers to have rejected them, including Gowan, Christian Walker last season, Patrick Corbyn, and A.J. Pollock. And also, they have signed three players where they had to give up those exact draft picture talking about that required the qualifying offer or that received qualifying offers from the former team.

One of those was Corbyn Burns just last year. Baltimore was a recipient there of the qualifying offer. Also, two other pitchers, Madison Bumgardner and Zach Granky. And funny enough, the Dodgers usage of the compensatory pick for Zach Granky was one catcher Will Smith, World Series hero. Wow, I've totally forgotten about that. That's crazy. See, the Diamondbacks gave the Dodgers Will Smith is what you're saying.

They did. That's what I'm saying, Jesse. That's exactly what I'm saying. That is an unfortunate series of events. So anyway, we got more news to talk about, of course, and we are going to do that on the other side of this break. Other players that did accept their qualifying offers and what the hell the Mets are doing there with Frankie Montau.

I'm going to throw it out there, but would he be a good fit for the Diamondbacks? Now that he's been DFA'd, we'll get to that on the other side of this break. Don't you go anywhere? you're watching the PHNX Diamondback show. Well, I'm glad Jesse's not on screen for this one because this would have just been a little much for our guy out of the gate, but not for me because we are thrilled to be partnering together with Fascinations. And let me tell you, as a man who has been happily married for a very long time,

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If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 100 next step text next step to 533342 or visit problemgambling.az.net. Dot gov. Excuse me. Got that wrong there at the end. I almost nailed it, Jesse. Almost nailed it and got the dot gov wrong. Well, of course, like I said, there are some other news around Major League Baseball, kind of some surprising qualifying offers that were accepted. did Shoda Imanaga accepts the qualifying offer from the Chicago Cubs. And I think that one was a big surprise. That entire situation with his contract and declining, you know, the player option and then them declining the other years and everything just going back and forth. It felt like Imanaga was potentially destined to be a free agent.

But here he is accepting the qualifying offer to stay in Chicago. It is a really interesting one. I mean, just some odd kind of. of gymnastics negotiations that have gone back and forth between immunologists. I feel like showed a loss. I feel like showed a loss this round. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I guess 20, I mean, 22 million dollars is a pretty decent amount of money for him to make after the season he had. I know. Yeah, he wasn't very good last year. He had a decent ERA.

I mean, he was a 373 ERA. But you look at the park adjusted numbers. You know, it's just a 103 ERA. R-A-plus is basically league average innings. And his FIP was 4.86. You gave up a bunch of home runs.

He gave up 31 homers in just 144 and two-thirds innings. So I think it's reasonable to be a little concerned about Imanaga from this point forward. I don't think he's someone you really want to pay $22 million per season. But if you're the Cubs, I mean, you can stomach that. It's just one year. The Cubs, obviously, they have the means. they were going to be going out and looking for starting pitching anyway. So maybe Minaga is able to bounce back and hit for the next off season after a better,

you know, I guess this wasn't really a walk here per se. There were all sorts of options and things in his contract at the end of this season. So it'll be interesting to see how this one plays out. Kind of surprising. And again, once I saw that news come down, it didn't really change what I thought was going to happen with Zach.

gallon but I did feel like all right well considering that's how what you just said how you feel about I'm gonna I think that's how we kind of framed it for gallon like gallon coming back to the diamond backs made a lot of sense just based on the fact that you know 22 million dollars is still a lot of money and it gives him an opportunity to rebound and still get that big contract while he's still fairly young and you know next next off season but um again showed a guy that they were really excited about there in Chicago. And I feel like the home run situation that you're describing is the reason why I feel like a lot of fans there were reacting in a similar fashion to what we saw DeBacks fans saying about Zach Gallen, like almost like, well, if he takes it, then good. But if not,

Sia and your and your FIP. Yeah, I think Imanaga, the home run thing was always going to be a risk for him in particular. I remember, I remember back to when you and I, We're talking about Imanaga versus Yamamoto, you know, could the deep back maybe be in on one of these guys? We weren't ever really talking seriously about Yamamoto because you knew the price tag was going to be crazy. But Imanaga, I mean, the strikeout and walk numbers in Japan were pretty compelling there. The concern was like if this guy is just pounding the zone with this 91 mile or fastball. In major league baseball. Yeah, like is his command of that pitch going to be good enough?

it to not just get yanked over the fence a whole bunch. And this past season, the command was not as good as, I mean, he was like robotic when he first entered the majors in 2024. I mean, he was dotting the upper part of the strike zone with that pitch. It has a lot of upward carry. It was playing even though it's a lower Velo pitch. But, you know, I think you saw the stuff drop off a little bit too. It was down a tick this year, 90.8 miles an hour was his average on that four seam fastball.

So he's just really going to have to be have pinpoint command with that pitch if he's going to find success. And obviously he wasn't he wasn't able to do that to the same degree this year. All right. So we have a couple of other guys that accepted their qualifying offers. Glaber Torres staying with the Tigers. That seemed a little surprising. I thought it was inevitable that he would become a free agent. Trent Grisham stays with the Yankees.

That one makes a little bit more sense. That seems like a pretty good situation for Grisham to stay in. And then and they're still. going after a first baseman slash outfielder or whatever. So I don't think, you know, what they're going to ask of him is going to be like a 162 games at all. And then Brandon Woodruff accepted the Brewer's qualifying offer. That's another situation that I think was a little bit more in line with what we expected.

But, you know, again, Glaber Torres, a little bit of a surprise. Overall, not a surprise that only four guys accepted qualifying offers here. it feels like, again, that this is, you know, a year that the market is still very unpredictable for free agents. And I think that some didn't want to test it and some see how much money is being thrown around in Major League Baseball and want to give it a shot. And I again, like I've said with labor disputes and everything else, go get your money. Go get your money because baseball is structured in such a way that it makes it very difficult. for some guys to ever get paid the amount they should. Gowan, quite frankly, could be one of those guys if he does get one of those short-term

deals that you were describing there overall because, again, we've always felt like Gowlin was going to get that big payday and deserved it for setting major league records like he did when he came into the league and just being as consistently good as he was for the Diamondbacks. The Gleiber Torres one was a little surprising for me until I realized how miserable he was in the second half for the Tigers. These numbers are crazy. He had 223 with a 659 OPS in the second half of the season. And that was after being an all-star, he was awesome in the first half.

So when you factor that and it makes sense. It's like, oh, wow, this guy only ended with a 108 OPS plus, making $22 million in free agency for a year. And then going back out next off season, reentering the market, not having to worry about having draft pick compensation tied to you. that makes a lot of sense from from his perspective same story with trent christian no no huge surprises there he had a good year for the yankees um but i think it was a bit of an outlier season for him i think it was going to be tough for him uh to do super well in free agency with that draft pick compensation tied to him as well uh brandon woodruff though that one surprised me maybe a little bit just because we know how great the demand is for starting pitching all the time and woodruff

has health questions, no doubt, but he came back from a pretty major shoulder procedure and it was pretty darn good when he was out there this season. I mean, he had, I can pull up the numbers here. I mean, it was pretty typical, like, ace level Brandon Woodruff type stuff with the Brewers.

I just looked up Sam Woodruff, who apparently played in like the early 1900s. Let me, Brandon Woodruff. Get the Woodruff in there. Yeah, there we go. Brandon Woodruff had a 3-2-0-E-R-A and 12 starts, 317-FIP, you know, 83 strikeouts to just 14 walks.

Like, he was really good. These numbers are basically aligned with his career norms. I think he could have gotten a multi-year deal in free agency. At maybe, I don't know if he would have gotten 20 mil per year, but he might have gotten pretty close to that in a multi-year deal. I did not, based on like how the season went, I did not think he made 12 starts. Yeah, I really didn't.

I thought he made maybe six, right? It's an event every time Brandon Woodruff actually pitches. Right. Yeah. No, and I mean, again, I thought that that was the reason why I said earlier. I thought it was a slam dunk because, again, he didn't have enough time recovering from that injury or coming back from that injury to really, I guess, impress teams enough or the sample size just wasn't big enough.

I don't know. Twelve games is kind of enough for me to think that, like, if he's coming back and he's healthy that this is this this is a guy that can still go am i turning into a robot uh not a robot i just have a bit of delay on my end all right i i can still make out most of uh most of what you're saying i think we're the the internet is is a frustrating place sometimes for sure but um all right well we'll we'll try our best to press on here uh the the met's jesse so it's like i'm almost trying to wait for my face to catch up to my words. The Mets designated Frankie Montas for assignment.

And again, that's something that is amazing, considering that they are eating $17 million of that contract for 2026. Yeah, I think Montas had Tommy John surgery, if I'm not mistaken. He did. Yeah. So I think this is sort of a formality for the Mets where he wasn't going to pitch for them any way. They're going to be stuck paying that money no matter what. So they're just designating him for assignment so that they can make a roster spot for somebody who might actually have an impact

for them in 2026. I understand that 100%. But $17 million, Jesse, that's a lot of money considering when we talked about what the Diamondbacks have to spend. Yeah, that is, it is kind of wild. Like, just seeing A. any team just throw $17 million, you know, sort of into the wind, even though, again, like, I don't know if Montas, there's really much of a chance he could pitch for the Mets next year. But, yeah, I guess it is kind of interesting. I mean, sometimes we see teams, like, they'll keep the player around and let them rehab in

their organization as opposed to trying to find a home elsewhere. but I guess at this point, like 40 men roster spots are kind of at a premium with the Rule 5 draft around the corner. So maybe the Mets are like, no, we need to protect this guy. I think they protected their number 16 prospect. It looks like over on MLB pipeline as a result of this move. So that's something that maybe they couldn't have done if they weren't willing to make this move with Montas. Well, overall here, it's just again, it's, It shows, and you're right, like $17 million, whether he's on the roster or not, you're jeopardizing a young prospect overall in their ability to add that person to their 40-minded roster.

But it just also seems like, Jesse, like it's just a case of how much teams like the Mets and the Dodgers have. $17 million just to, you know, I mean, just to eat. And I think that's what I was stuck on, especially looking at some of a montage. numbers like overall. I was really considering here like do the Diamondbacks again. I not now, you know, and his career might be over, right? Like this 2025 stats work great as it is. And again, coming back from that injury is not going to be easy.

But, you know, overall here, it's just more of a, I'm so jealous of another organization's ability to overcome things like this. This is what we talked about with the Dodgers, right? The Dodgers have this ability to make mistakes financially, make mistakes on talent and personnel assessment, and not have it be catastrophic to their season, not have it be something that completely blows up on them. And same thing here with the Mets. You know, the Mets are eating nearly $20 million. And like, just from that perspective, just from the like pure jealousy perspective, all I can think is like that's half of the money that the diamondbacks have to, you know,

have to spend this year. And again, I know a lot of those teams don't really care about spending the $17 million, like you said, is going to be wasted one way or another on him. And he's not going to be back for almost the entirety of next year. Plus, even if he does come back with the talented staff they have,

how it even factor in to that Mets team anyway, right? But again, it's just the fact that, teams like the Mets, teams like the Dodgers have their ability to just eat this kind of money. They're already paying a bunch in the tax and the payroll spending, you know, uh, situation. So it's like it's, uh, it just makes me sick. But anyway, I also wanted Frankie Montas for the Diamondbacks for sure.

And so like this whole situation is like, uh, to me. He was like an interesting, an interesting bounce back candidate until, of course, you know, the injury happens. And yeah, you don't, you don't really. know what the future holds. I will say like, he's never been very good. Let's be honest. Like he's never been what I think people thought he was going to be. But at the same time, it's like he's just one of those names that you always felt like was,

nah, he's going to figure it out. He's going to put it together. Yeah, you had like a couple good seasons in Oakland, if I'm remembering. That's right. That's yeah. That's what that's what makes you think of him highly, I think, is, is those, those years with the athletics. Yeah. It's still wild though that, I mean, he got two years. and 34 million in the first place. Like I remember when that deal was signed last off season, I was like,

if that's what Frankie Montas costs, like I don't want to know what some of these, you know, top flight starters are going to cost. I guess on the top, I'm going to get 200 million, you know? Yeah, right, right. But I guess on that topic,

like the Diamondbacks did sign one of the top starting pitchers I know, top season in Corby Burns. And they are in the position that you're kind of describing here where obviously they're not, you know, they're not designated Corbyn Burns for assignment. Like this contract is much longer than that. But they are having to go through a similar thing where, you know, that's about $30 million in dead money for 2025. And it's not just him. You factor in, you know, Justin Martinez and his new contract and then A.J. Puck as well.

Like the debacks are having to find a way in 2026 to make the pieces fit together when they have a lot of dead money just due to injuries. on their payroll in addition to the payroll dropping, or at least we're expecting it to drop, going into the next season. So to your point, it's hard for the debacks to overcome things like this, whereas the Mets are probably not losing a ton of sleep over Frankie Montas, you know, pay him off, $17 million, designate him for assignment.

It's not a huge deal to them. Well, it does feel, though, like options, when we talk about the four players that did except qualifying options, options qualifying offers. The options are getting more and more limited for the diamond bags. Not to say they were going to go after any of these guys. Not to say they're going to go after a Framber Valdez because I would lose my mind if they did, right?

Like there's no way. But then I would have said that the last two off seasons about one Gordon Burns and one Jordan Montgomery. I would say there's no way. I'm sure at one point we even like briefly discussed Corbyn Burns and then just brushed it off as like we would this like we would do it this post. season like dylan ciss or fram revaldez you're crazy to think the diamondbacks are going to get them and the next thing you know you and i are sitting in the press conference welcoming dylan cis to the arizona diamondbacks right like i'm not i'm not ruling anything out but i very

much doubt that any of the big names that you're going to see are going to involve the debacks at all and that's not new information that's just where they stand as far as their payroll and everything like that i think the one area they could make a flashy move with is a trade, right? Hopefully it's not a Cotel-Marté trade. But again, Jesse, I think that's the reason why the Cotel-Marte rumors are so strong. There's a lot of factors that make sense. And I guess that it makes me feel like we're just discussing factors. Like Ctele-Marté is an amazing player.

He's on a fairly team-friendly contract. There's really no reason to trade him unless you want to deal. dig into, you know, the situation with the team and missing days and stuff last year. That's where you might start saying, like, you as an organization don't feel like he's as committed to this as we want somebody that's getting paid this much to be. You also might just see the potential huge return that you could get for Cotel Marte here when the Diamondbacks, quite frankly, need it. They need a huge return.

They need major league ready talent that can come help this team. in 2026 but outside of like just yep those are those are facts like could tell martay trade still doesn't really make a lot of sense it's just the only move that would be that flashy big move that would feel like it changes the organization absolutely i mean it's it's a matter of like the debacks have a lot of needs this off season and not a ton of money to spend we don't think so how are you going to fill those gaps without going way over budget. I mean, the answer is to make trades. And Mike Kaysen has talked about that. I mean, it sounds like the debacks are going to be aggressive on that front. But it's also like it's going to be hard for this team to gain significant impact

via trade if Catea isn't involved. It's not impossible. I mean, I'm curious, like, what is Jordan Lawler worth on the trade market? What is a Ryan Waldschmidt worth, even though I'm sure people probably don't like hearing that name floated around in trade rumors. I get very rioty when you start talking about Ryan Welchman. I want to get a, I know, and you guys just had him on the show. Yeah, it was great. Tremendous young man around here. Yeah, I mean, we'll, we'll fight you. We will fight you. if you try to come from Ryan Walshment, but it's, we'll also fight you about Cotel Marte. We are protective of our players that we feel are great, right? Ryan Walshmit, definitely not proven at a major league level, but you just get the sense that he is going to be like that next

guy, you know, you just don't know. And that right now is the only thing that I think gives Jordan Lawler that value that you're discussing. Like what is Jordan Lawler's value? Well, it's going to vary from team to team, but there are going to be some players, some scout, some teams, some organizations, some front offices in MLB that have always wanted Jordan Lawler and have coveted him. And the opportunity to get him, regardless of what he's done in the Dominican Winter League, regardless of what he's done in AAA, regardless of what he's done at a major league level, they will look past all of that potentially.

It's maybe not a lot of teams, but you know there's a handful of teams that feel that way about certain players, that they would give you more for them because they truly feel like he is a future great, and that if they get them in their organization, they'll be able to turn things around for him. I don't know how the Diamondbacks feel any longer about some of these guys. If they still feel that way, it's like what I said earlier about Dre Jameson. There's other teams that covet Drey Jameson, then why don't Diamondbacks covet him as a potential future starter? And that might just be because they have far more information on Dre Jamison than anybody else does,

similar to Jordan Lawler. Like Jordan Lawler just might be a case where the Diamondbacks feel like he might not work out. But right now, teams don't know that yet. and this might be the opportunity to trade someone like him for a tremendous value. I think with, I mean, Dre is such an interesting situation because it's not all that long ago that we were talking about Dre Jameson as like a guy who would stick in the devax rotation for a long time. I mean, when he first came up,

he made quite an impression. At the same time, I think there's a difference between other teams being able to get Dre to be a reliable starter in the big leagues and the diamond vax being able to get dray jameson to be a reliable starter in the big leagues unfortunately that's just the reality for this team right now like are the dbacks the team that's going to find a way to get that you know that struggling reliever obviously dray has had some some significant injuries here in in the recent past but it's just a little hard to imagine it like the dbacks have had a really hard time developing starting

hitching that yeah i kind of believe there are a couple other teams around the league you you know they get their hands on dray jameson and maybe they got something there yeah i don't know if the deback that team to figure that out though i know and i hate that i hate that and it's the same reason why when we sit here and get mad about max scherzer having a stellar career elsewhere or other guys that have left and really excelled when they weren't that for us maybe like a robbie ray for instance, right? That, you know, those guys may have never been that if they stayed as a part of the Arizona Diamondbacks. And that might be one of the true things that is at fault at wrong with this organization, right? Their ability to develop pitchers and make young pitchers into better

pitchers. It's what I felt Brent Strom was brought here for and it was something I thought that Brent Strom was going to be very good at for this team. And apparently they did not feel the same way. So that's the reason why he's no longer here. But I don't know, man. I mean, I do think that, you know, the Diamondbacks have some dogs that they have, you know, kind of homegrown here. And I think that some of those guys could be more of the answers. And I'm not truly convinced that Drey Jamison isn't one of those guys, right? Like, so again, it's just you might be right.

and I think you are because you're always right. I just think that overall, it just confounds me that there are other teams that believe in Dre Jameson and here the Diamondbacks sit in a position of desperation, you could say, like needing a guy that essentially has this exact skill set that apparently other teams feel that he has, but the Diamondbacks don't feel that he has as a internal candidate.

So really interesting, we'll see how that develops, but we have so much more to talk about, including all of these roster moves the Diamondbacks had to make those decisions on who would be safe and protected from the Rule 5 draft. We're going to get to that on the other side of this break. Don't you guys go anywhere? You're watching the PHA next Diamondback show. Well, our friends at Branded Bills are already doing their Black Friday deal right now.

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Visit play atheila.com for more details. Jesse, the D-Backs did make their roster moves last night, and we were expecting a few names to end up on the 40-man roster. I think there was a little surprise there as far as what they had to do to make room for the guys they added. first Christian Montez de Oka was outrighted to AAA Reno. So he was removed from the 40-man roster. Meanwhile, the following guys were added to the 40-man roster.

Mitch Brat, Cole Drake, two names that we have talked about, a lot on this show. In fact, we said that these are the guys that the Diamondbacks needed to protect. As you and I have talked about time and time again, Jesse, it's pretty much about guys that are major league ready talent. And when you look at Brat, when you look at Drake, those are two guys. Drate got hampered a little bit by the injury. So his development kind of got slowed down. But both guys could easily get taken by a major league baseball team that doesn't have very good starting pitching or even a full rotation like the Diamondbacks do not have.

And both of those guys could have ended up staying on a roster for the full year if they found success. So those guys were protected as well as infielder Jose Fernandez and another pitcher in Dylan Ray. So again, Ray is the name we've also brought up. Jose Fernandez. A little bit of a surprise that he was added to the roster. I think the Diamondbacks just kind of needed to ensure that they had some infield depth.

And according to some things I've seen, Fernandez has been having himself a good minor league career. So another guy that appears to be fairly majorly ready. Yeah, Fernandez is, he's definitely the most surprising name of that group for me. I think Drake and Brat, as you said, like the, I mean, you weren't going to trade Merrill Kelly for two good pitching prospects. I guess really three. And then lose two of them to the rule five draft.

That wouldn't make any sense. So no surprise on those guys. Jose Fernandez, though, a name that I didn't necessarily see coming, he was kind of in the mix, a name that at least came to mind. But, you know, you look at his numbers in AA from this past year. They don't necessarily jump off the page. He had 272. 72 homers.

That would have been something. But 17 homers and 80 runs bad to Danny, he had 12 stolen bases. But again, this is AA. It's a super hitter-friendly environment. It's only a 99 WRC plus. So he's basically a league average hitter. But, you know, reading up on this a little bit, I know Nick Bacoro wrote about these roster moves today.

He said that some people view Jose Fernandez's floor as being that of a lefty masher, you know, kind of middle infield utility. type player. He plays some shortstop, plays a pretty decent shortstop from what we know. And that profile does, like that makes sense that you might want to protect that player. Again, the million dollar question with all these guys is like, would a team be willing to stash that player on their active roster for a full season? And I don't know that the answer is yes for Jose Fernandez, but you could imagine that if you view Jose Fernandez as a pretty good defender, and maybe you're not sure about his ability to hit righties in the majors just yet.

But if you think he could hit lefties, I mean, this guy is only 22 years old. So it'd be a sneaky good opportunity for another team to pluck a solid utility player out of the D-Bax organization. Again, I don't know for sure that like Jose Fernandez was guaranteed to be selected. But I can at least understand the reasoning from the Diamondbacks perspective. Well, Jesse, another name, obviously, that is part of this is that Tommy Henry was designated for assignment. Again, any, I was a little shocked by that. I know that he is a guy that also had Tommy John surgery, so much like we were kind of talking about a little earlier with Frankie Montas. It's not that he was going to miss the whole season, but Tommy Henry kind of is and always has been a depth piece for the Diamondbacks at starting,

starting pitching, right? So it feels like designating him for assignment makes a little bit of sense due to his recovery, but it also kind of caught me off guard. I was a little surprised by that. It was interesting at the very least.

I mean, I didn't expect Tommy Henry to be DFA'd. I guess at this point, the debacks have seven days to either trade him or put him on waivers. If they put him on waivers, then another team could claim, him maybe this is the end of Tommy Henry's tenure in the Diamondbacks organization,

which would be a shame because, you know, you'd think back to 2023. I mean, Tommy Henry was a valuable member of that team that went to the World Series. He wasn't able to pitch in the playoffs, unfortunately, but he had a 415 ERA, pitched in 17 games, 16 starts, 89 innings. But it's just been a weird story for him where he showed promise when he first came up. It looked like in 2023, he really took that next step. He was ready to be in a big league rotation for a long time as a guy who just kind of throws the kitchen sink at you and has pretty decent command.

But over time, his stuff has just kind of dropped off. I mean, he averaged 91.5 with his fastball when he first came up in 2022. I know it was six and two thirds innings this past year. It's not a huge sample. But it was 88.9 that he averaged with his fastball. And it's just those numbers have just kind of ticked down every season that he's, you know, since he first came up to the big league. So I think Tommy Henry is indicative of some of the bigger questions about debacks pitching development. I know it's another topic that Nick Bacoro did a deep dive on recently over at the Arizona Republic.

Like, why is it that some of these debacks pitching prospects, their stuff over time is not getting better. It's actually getting worse. and it feels like there's maybe some issues with what they're asking these guys to do or maybe not asking these guys to do. Maybe they're being a little bit too conservative. I know that was part of the angle for Nick's story. So certainly wish Tommy Henry all the best no matter what. You and I, again, we've been lucky enough to spend a lot of time around some of these guys.

Tommy Henry, truly one of the best guys in that clubhouse. I mean, super easy to talk to, very personable. but it's been a rough go for him here recently and hopefully he lands on his feet. For sure. And I think we think that about everybody, right? I'm a little behind here again, but I do think that we do wish the best

for all of these guys for sure. But again, roster moves had to be made and those guys are now protected from the Rule 5 draft. There are some names that are still possibly in danger. But it seemed like most of the them are fairly fringe prospect candidates to do so. And again, just got to remember that a team needs to keep them on the roster the entire year. That's not very easy to do in general with any

prospect, let alone unproven prospects like the Diamondbacks have that most of them have not served, you know, they don't have major league experience at all in any way, shape, or form. But just want to remind you guys, of course, if you are not a diehard already, join us. This is a great time to do so. you get exclusive content, get access to our PHNX lounge, which is the exclusive place here, best place to talk Arizona Sports on Discord with us, PHNX folks over here. You get a free t-shirt, you get 20% off your merchandise,

get 20% off events. So head on over to go phnx.com and prove your fanhood by becoming a pHNX diehard today. We thank so many of you that have already done so. I think so many of you guys have joined our supporters club. Great, great to see so many of you on YouTube as well. But Jesse, I know we usually do this on Thursdays, but today is a very important day in DeBacks history.

I know we've done this before on this exact day. But on November 18th, back in 1997, MLB had a good old expansion draft in downtown Phoenix, Arizona, at the Phoenix Civic Center, the Arizona Diamondbacks and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays at the time, still a much better name, decided to get together and build their, rosters prior to debuting in the National League and American League divisions, respectively in their 1998 MLB seasons. And I had some of the names come up here, but it was kind of fascinating to just once again look at that draft, look at those results, and see exactly how this franchise

was shaped in those early days and how quickly it changed from 1998, where Devon White was our best player to what happened in 1999 and beyond with that, you know, world championship roster. Yeah, I mean, the D-VACs, you know, they held their own in the expansion draft. There's a few things in there. But, yeah, what, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't Gabe Alvarez, you know, their third overall pick who carried them to the, to the World Series. There are, you know, there are some, there are some names in here. You know, I'm looking at Omar Dahl, who they took in the second round,

their second pick in the second round. And he certainly was pretty good for them. But it's a weird part of becoming a major league baseball franchise. We do the expansion drafting and you're plucking guys off other teams around the league. In a big picture sense, though, Derek, sometimes I think about like if this hadn't happened, like just my whole life arc, the kind of person I would be if the Arizona Diamondbacks had not existed.

Yes. And that there was a time when they didn't exist, right? Like there was a time where there wasn't baseball here. And now we're so lucky to have it and do jobs based on it. But they did miss on the Bobby Abraeu pick there. I got to admit, that was one that they might have missed out on a little bit. That's fair. that's fair aside from that aside from that they did all right they did all right see here's the thing

they should have known to get a venezuelan uh venezuelan's always very successful in this franchise had they figured that out earlier on they probably would have been in good shape for sure for sure overall uh jesse what do you guys got cook cooking up on snakes territory i love what you guys and jack uh you and jack have going on over there always yeah yeah uh we on i believe thursday of this week our next show we're gonna have the great Nick McCorough have discussed, referenced a few times earlier. He's going to stop by. We're going to talk about some of the stories.

He's written recently. He did some great reporting at the GM meetings here in the past week or so. And then that deep dive I mentioned earlier about Deepak's pitching development and how they're really looking closely at every aspect of that, trying to figure out why they've

struggled to the degree they have to develop pitchers. It's really, I think, maybe the most pressing big picture question that this organization faces. That's a question that Nick really dug into a lot in a recent story. So we're excited to talk with him about that. And then I know you guys are doing here a lot like, you know, every trade idea, every rumor, every, you know, we're desperate for things to talk about. So if we sound like we're making things up at a certain point, it's probably because we are because we just have to keep, we just have to keep recording.

podcast. So it's a part of the, part of the gig. We just press on, Jesse. We just press on through it. We press on through the offseason. Well, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you as always. Make sure to follow him over at Jesse and Friedman on Twitter. Make sure to check out Snake's territory at Snake's territory on Twitter and everywhere you get your podcast just like this show. And again, Jesse, appreciate your time so much. But a big shout out to Ayrton, who I ignored because we are remote and the internet's terrible and stream yards terrible sometimes. And this is what happens when we're doing things remotely,

especially at my house. I don't know what's wrong with the internet at my house. But shout out to Errington for keeping us locked down. He is at Freckled Mamba. That is the best Twitter handle in the company. I am at cap underscore caveman with a K. People don't understand it. And sometimes neither do I.

But regardless, we thank you guys for your time. Our show is at PHNX underscore DBEX. and as always all roads lead to at p h and x underscore sports on twitter instagram and facebook uh appreciate you so much for stopping by we'll see you tomorrow at 12 p m and like jesse said we're going to press on and figure out how to fix this diamondbacks team together as a group as a family we're going to figure it out so uh we thank you again so much for your time uh we appreciate you we love you we will see you to tomorrow until then behave yourselves have a wonderful evening and remember kids baseball is fun but it's so much more fun when you can move on from your players making decisions about sticking around.