Pints With Aquinas - 180: The Jesus Prayer

Episode Date: November 19, 2019

Today I talk all about the Jesus Prayer. First, please consider becoming a patron and get free awesome stuff: https://www.patreon.com/mattfradd Here's the links I said I'd give you: Way of a Pilgrim: https://www.amazon.com/Way-Pilgrim-Continues-His-ebook/dp/B076RY64G6/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=way+of+a+pilgrim&qid=1574093867&sr=8-1 To get a nice prayer rope, write to my mate, Phillip Rolfes: [e-mail] to see photos of the kind of prayer ropes he makes see here: http://themasterbeadsman.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html To get my book on the Rosary: https://ascensionpress.com/products/pocket-guide-to-the-rosary And here's that Byzantine prayer book I use: https://melkite.org/products-page/prayer-books/publicans-prayer-book SPONSORS EL Investments: https://www.elinvestments.net/pints Exodus 90: https://exodus90.com/mattfradd/  Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd  STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/  GIVING Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mattfradd This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer coproducer of the show. LINKS Website: https://pintswithaquinas.com/ Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/ SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd MY BOOKS  Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx CONTACT Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform  

G'day, welcome to Pints with Aquinas. My name is Matt Fradd. Today we're going to be discussing the Jesus Prayer. We're going to see what Thomas Aquinas has to say about praying at all times. We'll have a look at what Saint Augustine says. We'll talk about the Jesus Prayer in particular. We'll look at what some of the Eastern fathers have said about it. I'll give you some, you know, kind of tidbits of advice on how to kind of better do it, where to get a good prayer rope, and then I'm going to take some questions from my patrons specifically about the Jesus prayer. Here we go. Okay, welcome back to Pints with Aquinas. This is the show where you and I pull up a barstool next to the angelic doctor to discuss theology and philosophy. I uploaded my recent Matt Fradd Show interview with Jason Everett yesterday, so be sure to go and check that out.

I'm really thrilled to be doing these long-form discussions on YouTube. Guess who I am going to interview on the 9th of December? Oh, wait, just guess. Okay, I'll just tell you. Dr. William Lane Craig has agreed to be on the Matt Frad Show, which I'm pretty psyched about. I'll be honest, I'm a little nervous about it as well. I know he doesn't like to kind of get into the Catholic Protestant arguments. He likes to present what he calls mere Christianity. So I'm formulating questions as we speak, but that should be coming out soon. That's going to be really exciting. I have Trent Horn

flying into Atlanta. I'll be interviewing him. Next month, I interview Muslim convert Derry Little, or rather convert to Christianity from Muslim. Is that a Muslim? Christian convert. Yeah, Christian convert from Islam. That was a fascinating discussion. So there's just a lot coming out that I'm just super pumped about. And none of this would happen if it weren't for my patrons. So if you're a patron, give yourself a pat on the back. All of this is possible because of you. Also, we just did a Flannery O'Connor short course, short book study. Many of you enjoyed that. Here's some cool news. I'm currently in contact with a professor from a prominent university who teaches St. Augustine's Confessions.

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Today I want to talk about the Jesus Prayer. Many of you have asked me to speak about it. I'm actually quite fascinated that many of you seem very interested in me going to a Byzantine church and different Byzantine, what do you say, sacramentals and devotions and things like that. So I thought I would spend some time doing that. So here's what I want to do, okay? First of all, I want to begin by talking about why we make the sign of the cross differently to y'all in the West, if you are a Western Catholic, because many of you have had questions about that. I then want to talk about the Jesus prayer specifically, and how that kind of ties in to what St. Paul asks of us, and we'll get to that. But then we'll see what St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine have to say

about praying always. Again, this is something Paul tells us we ought to do. Yeah, we'll speak about the Jesus prayer specifically, look at it in the Catechism, and then see what some Eastern saints have had to say on the whole thing. So that'll be pretty cool. I just want to take a pause here for one moment to say thank you to Halo for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Halo is a fantastic app that will teach you how to pray. Perhaps you're familiar with other sort of apps that help you meditate, like Calm and Headspace and the like. They're great apps, perhaps, but the problem with them is they can lead into new age ways of thinking, whereas Hello is just as amazing and sophisticated, but it's 100% Catholic. Check it out.

Hello offers a permanently free version of their app, which includes content that's updated every day, as well as a paid subscription option with premium content. But by using the promo code Matt Fradd, one word, Matt Fradd, you can try out all the sessions in the app for a full month totally for free. To take advantage of this special offer, visit hallo.app slash Matt Fradd, that's H-A-L-L-O-W dot A-P-P slash Matt Fradd and create your account online before downloading the app. It really is a fantastic app. My wife uses it. I've actually gone into adoration and put some earbuds in and allowed it to lead me through a sort of 15 minute Lectio Divina meditation. You can choose to put Gregorian chant behind the person's voice or

synth music. You'll really love it. Hello.app slash Matt Frack. So yeah, in the East, we make the sign of the cross differently in the West. My understanding is in the Western church, you make the sign of the cross with five fingers, okay, out, stretched out, like you're giving someone a high five, and you touch your forehead, stomach, shoulder, or I guess your left shoulder and right shoulder, and that represents the five wounds of Christ. In the East, what we do, and you might find this really interesting, you take your thumb, your index finger, and your middle finger, okay, put them together, and that represents the Trinity. Three persons, one God. And then the next two fingers, your pinky finger, and then the one beside it, you press down into your palm, and that represents the two natures of Christ,

both human and divine. And so if you can imagine that, then we make the sign of the cross from the forehead, stomach, but we go right shoulder to left shoulder, not left shoulder to right shoulder. We go right shoulder to left shoulder, not left shoulder to right shoulder. It seems that this is the more ancient practice, the way the Eastern Church does it from right to left. Even the Latin West, in my understanding, did this until the Middle Ages. And how do I know that? Well, because Pope Innocent III, who lived during the 13th century, he has a little work called Concerning the Sacred Mystery of the Altar. Listen to what he has to say, because this is really fascinating. The sign of the cross, he says, is made with three fingers, just like I mentioned a moment ago, because it is done

together with the invocation of the Trinity. It is done from above to below and from right to left, because Christ descended from heaven to the earth, and from the Jews he passed to the Gentiles. Nevertheless, some make the sign of the cross from the left to the right, because we must pass from misery to glory, just as Christ passed from death to life, and from hell to paradise, especially so that they may sign themselves and others simultaneously in one and the same way. But if you pay attention carefully, we are making the sign of the cross from the right to left on others because we do not sign them as if they were turning their backs, but as they faced us. So it doesn't mean one way is wrong and one way is right. Goodness sake, don't hear me saying that. That would be a

juvenile way to think, I think. This is rather a beautiful sort of practice, of course, that's developed, has its roots in Scripture. In the West, if you're in the Western Church, which most of you are, you make the sign of the cross from left to right. In the East, we you're in the Western Church, which most of you are, you make the sign of the cross from left to right. In the East, we make it from right to left. And I think that's a nice explanation from Pope Innocent III on why we do that. So let's look at the Jesus prayer. Now we see in 1 Thessalonians 5.17, St. Paul says something really interesting. He tells us to pray without ceasing. How on earth do we pray without ceasing?

This is something that has actually been addressed by St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, and I want to turn to them first. So, since this is Pints with Aquinas, let's begin with Aquinas. We're going to take a look in the Summa Theologiae, in the Secunda Secundae, that means the second part of the second part, question 83. We'll look at article 14. Should prayer last a long time? Should it last a long time? And here, really, Aquinas is addressing the issue, should it be continual? And here's really, Aquinas is addressing the issue, should it be continual? And here's the said contra.

He says, it would seem that we ought to pray continually, for our Lord said we ought always to pray and not to faint. And it's written in 1 Thessalonians 5, 17, pray without ceasing. Okay, but how do we understand this? Because Aquinas, as always, is going to be nuanced here. He says, we may speak about prayer in two ways. First, by considering it in itself. And secondly, by considering it in its cause. The cause of prayer, like why is it that we pray, is the desire of charity from which prayer ought to arise. And this desire, he says, ought to be in us continually, either actually or virtually, for the virtue of this desire remains in whatever we do out of charity. And we ought to do all things to the glory of God. From this point of view, prayer

ought to be continual. And this is why St. Augustine says, faith, hope, and charity are by themselves a prayer of continual longing. I like that. That's the end of the quote. And then Aquinas says, but prayer considered in itself cannot be continual because we have to be busy about other works. And as Augustine says, we pray to God with our lips at certain intervals and seasons in order to admonish ourselves by means of such like signs to take note of the amount of our progress in that desire and to arouse ourselves more eagerly to an increase thereof. Now, the quantity of a thing, I love this, this is so, so practical, listen to this, the quantity of a thing should be commensurate with its end. For instance, the quantity of the dose should be commensurate with health. You don't want

a doctor giving you more or less of the medicine that you need in order for you to be healthy. You don't want a doctor giving you more or less of the medicine that you need in order for you to be healthy. And so it is, says Aquinas, becoming that prayer should last long enough to arouse the fervor of the interior desire. And when it exceeds this measure so that it cannot be continued any longer without causing weariness, it should be discontinued. Isn't that great so he's saying you should pray long enough so as to provoke this fervor for god but if you get to a point where like you're exhausted and you're like okay i'm done like my butt is tired i haven't slept last night very much and i at this point i'm just kind of reading words without even considering what they mean or something. He's like, just continue at that point. So Aquinas says then, wherefore Augustine says, here's a quote

from him, and this is actually interesting because this is going to lead us into the Jesus prayer. St. Augustine is in a sense referencing the Jesus prayer here or something similar. He says, it is said that the brethren in Egypt make frequent but very short prayers, rapid ejaculations, as it were, lest that vigilant and erect attention, yes, yes, I know, very funny, just continue for a bit, which is so necessary in prayer, slacken and languish through the strain being prolonged. So it was funny, I remember I was at Net Ministries in Canada, and somebody was giving a talk on prayer. remember I was at Net Ministries in Canada and somebody was giving a talk on prayer. And this person was talking about this very thing, about short, rapid prayers that were offered in kind of among the Eastern monastics and the fathers. And she said, oh, what's the name of it? And I put my

hand up and went, ejaculations. And she laughed. I went, no, no, Matthew. And I think she laughed because she knew I spoke a lot about pornography. And so she's like, there's Matt, it's talking about ejaculations. And I'm like, no, no, no, it is that. And she went, oh, oh, no, no, yes, you're right. And she later said, if anybody else had to put their hand up and said ejaculations, she would have went, oh yeah, that's right. But because it was me, she didn't, you know, accept it. So that's kind of offensive. But anyway, by ejaculation, we mean the short, rapid bursts of prayer. And this is, in effect, what the Jesus prayer is, and we'll get to that in a moment. But the whole point of these short prayers was so that our attention wouldn't slacken and languish through the strain being prolonged. Aquinas concludes by saying,

by so doing, they make it sufficiently clear, not only that this attention must not be forced if we are unable to keep it up, but also that if we are able to continue, it should not be broken off too soon. And just as we must judge of this in private prayers by considering the attention of the person praying, listen to this bit, people, especially if you're a priest or a deacon or a bishop, listen to this. Do you love that I just assumed bishops listen to this podcast? Who knows? It's possible. Okay. He then says, okay, this is true in private concerns, but he says it's also true in public concerns. So he says, in public prayers, we must judge of it by considering the devotion of the people. So we have to take that into account.

So if you're a new priest and you're assigned to a new parish, maybe you have a tremendous fervor, say, for the Holy Rosary. And you say, all right, after Holy Mass tonight, we're going to stay here and pray all three or four mysteries, so all 20 decades, all 15 decades or something. That could be really inappropriate, actually, because all 20 decades, all 15 decades or something. That could be really inappropriate, actually, because the devotion of the people wouldn't be able to handle it. So that's really practical advice there, I think, from Thomas Aquinas. All right, now I want to look at St. Augustine. Thomas Aquinas loves Augustine. You should too. By the way, as I say, we're looking to do this course, this book study on the confessions.

So if you've always wanted to read the confessions or if you have read it but want to get more out of it, if you're a patron, it'll be free. I think hopefully in January we'll start it or February. That's the hope. But if you're not, patreon.com slash mattfradd. I cannot wait to take this course. Please, God, he'll end up agreeing to it. All right.

I want to read just a little bit of what Augustine has to say. He says, and I love Augustine, Augustine, I love this man. Augustine speaks from this passion that I certainly feel many times. And I think for that reason, people find him often more easy to read than Aquinas, who sometimes reads like a, what do you say, a math equation, or syllogistically at least. Listen to this bit from Augustine here. He says, there is another inward kind of prayer without ceasing, which is the desire of the heart. the desire of the heart. Whatever activity you happen to be engaged in or are doing, if you only long for that Sabbath, then you do not cease to pray. If you do not want to pause in prayer, then never pause in your longing. Your continuous desire is your continuous prayer.

If you cease to desire, then you will have fallen silent in your prayer. Who are those who have fallen silent? Those of whom it is said, because iniquity will abound, the love of many will grow cold. The freezing of love is the silence of the heart. The burning of love is the silence of the heart. The burning of love is the cry of the heart. If love continues, then you are still lifting up your voice. If you are always lifting up your voice, you are always longing after something. If you are always longing, it is the Sabbath rest you are thinking of.

All and all my desire is before thee. you are thinking of. And all my desire is before thee. How can we suppose that our desire is before him, but our very groaning is not before him? How can that be? Since our desire itself finds its expression in groaning. And so comes the line, and my groaning is not hidden from you. From you indeed, it is not hidden, but it is hidden from many men. The servant of God sometimes seems to be saying in humility, and my groaning is not hidden from you. Sometimes also he seems to smile. Is then that longing dead in his heart? If, however, there is the desire within, there is the groaning also.

It does not always find its way to the ears of men, but it never ceases to sound in the ears of God. We'll leave it there. I've shared this story before, but I remember being on an airplane, and I sat down next to this woman who seemed to me, well, first of all, she was flirting with me, which you have to understand how unlikely that is to happen. People rarely flirt with me ever. But for some reason, I think this woman maybe had a drink or something, and she was very much coming on to me.

And she was actually really attractive and dressed not thoroughly modestly, should we put it lightly? And I was flying somewhere, and we were both kind of getting out the airplane. I remember I was showing her photos of my family thinking that she'd be like, oh, okay, he's got a family. But she kind of didn't. She kept saying how lucky my wife was. And let's be honest, she is.

And anyway, yeah, gosh, it's incredible when you find yourself in those moments. Some of you may find yourself in those moments far more than me. I just had my rosary in my pocket and I just kind of held onto it, you know, because it's very easy to say outside of that moment, oh, I would never be unfaithful to my wife in any way. And I'd play, please God, I wouldn't be. But I think there can be this temptation to at least flirt or at least allow this person to, you know, show her like, her interest in me and these sorts of things. So I was kind of clinging to my rosary and praying not to fall into that. And I think she even, she gave me, I think, did she give me her number as we were leaving or something? What was crazy is we were leaving into the same

city, right? I'm like, you know, without the grace of God, I could have called her up or said, what are you doing right now? You want to come to my hotel room or something? And she handed me her number. I ripped it up immediately and threw it away. Not in front of her. That would have been rude. But here's the point. I remember sitting with her and just thinking, this woman just seems dead inside. And I remember saying to her, what do you want to do? What do you love to do? If money wasn't an option, what would you want to do? And the whole point of questions like this, I think, is to invoke desire like what do you want what do you long for and she said something like oh travel i guess i'd travel sorry she wasn't i don't know why she had that accent but and i just think i was just like oh my gosh and this line came to me and i wrote it down

it was something like um that which her body has, her soul has not, and that which her soul has not, her body will soon become. Maybe you think that's a little dramatic, but that was kind of given to me. And anyway, I went about my way and I woke up the next morning and I went to pray. And this woman was heavy on my heart. She just seemed like dead inside. And the whole point of me telling you the story is what Augustine says about groaning before God and what a beautiful thing that is. And I hadn't actually read this excerpt from Augustine when I was doing that, but I actually laid down in the church and I looked around to make sure no one was there. And I just wept my eyes out.

I think it was a grace. I think it was the gift of holy tears. It just came upon me and I sobbed for that woman. It just broke me, you know? This was a couple of few years ago, maybe like five, six years ago now. So it was a while. I remember I called my friend Christopher West, who some of you might know. And he said to me, like, you were interceding for that woman. Because it was funny, I think I was going to offer a rosary for her, but I just couldn't. And instead I put my rosary away and just wept. And that was his point. It's like, you offered your tears for her. And that's a beautiful thing. But I love this idea of groaning. And I found this in my own life sometimes where I'll pray and then words will start issuing forth

like praise, which eventually turns into babble and groaning, just a longing for him. And those, babble and groaning, just a longing for Him. And some friends of mine who had been in the presence of St. John Paul II said that there was a groaning that would come from him as he would kneel before the tabernacle, an audible kind of groaning. So I really like that. Okay, so what is the Jesus prayer? So this practice of the invocation of the name of Jesus really comes from the New Testament. Even before the disciples were called Christians at Antioch, what were they called? They were called, we read this in Acts 9.14, 1 Corinthians 1.2, 2 Timothy 2.22. They were referred to as those who call upon the name of the Lord. And in a sense, it was the Lord Jesus himself who instituted the practice of this prayer, because it was Christ who said in John 14, 13, whatever you ask in my name, that I will do so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

In Acts 2.21, St. Peter said, Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be baptized. We read in Philippians 2.10, I love this line, At Jesus' name, every knee will bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth. So even though there was this kind of tradition in the desert fathers of these short, rapid ejaculations, all sorts of things, you know, God come to my assistance, Lord make haste to help me, those sorts of things, eventually the Jesus prayer sort of won out and became sort of the way to do this because it called upon the powerful name of Jesus. And so the Jesus prayer is usually formulated like this, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have

mercy upon me, a sinner. Sometimes it's said differently or shorter versions like, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. The point the Eastern Fathers tell us is not in the words. It's not like some magical formula that you repeat in order to, whatever, attain some, I don't know, what do you say, like bodily sensation or something like that. It's not magic. We're just calling upon the name of the Lord. That's kind of what we're doing. or something like that. It's not magic. We're just calling upon the name of the Lord. That's kind of what we're doing. And again, we read in Thessalonians 5.17, St. Paul tells us to pray without ceasing. And there's a really great modern Russian classic called Way of a Pilgrim. And it's a couple hundred years old now, and it's written by an anonymous person. It's sort of his diary entry.

Basically, he goes to church one day, and he hears the priest read this, 1 Thessalonians 5.17, right? Pray at all times, pray without ceasing. And he wants to know what this means, right? So it's a true story of this pilgrim who's going from monastery to monastery to figure out how to do that. And he said he would hear people talk

about why prayer is super important, you know, how to pray maybe, the effects of prayer, right, the necessity of it, but they wouldn't talk about how to pray at all times. And he becomes really kind of grieved because he fears that he may never learn. And eventually, this spiritual father teaches him the Jesus prayer. And the reason this can be used to pray at all times or continuously is because it can be attuned with our breath. So the one thing you and I do at all times is we breathe. And so what if you could somehow sync up a calling upon the name of the Lord with your breath? You could then theoretically pray at all times. Incidentally, someone pointed this out. It's more interesting than anything else. If you were to

take a microphone and just start, put it up to your mouth and breathe in and out, and that's it. a microphone and just start, you know, put it up to your mouth and breathe in and out. And that's it. I've heard, sometimes it sounds like you're saying the name of God, Yahweh, because you breathe in. You know, I mean, this is kind of like a poetic way of looking at it. I'm not actually saying that God set up our breath such that we would say Yahweh. But it is interesting. I have heard someone point that out, that you bring up a microphone to your mouth, it sounds like you're saying Yahweh as you breathe in and breathe out with your mouth. This beautiful kind of poetic way of thinking about it, that we pant for our Lord from the moment we exit the womb until we enter our reward. But yeah, this idea of bringing in the Jesus prayer into our breath enables us to

pray at all times. So the way it's usually done is you breathe in and you say, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God. So as you're breathing in, and then you breathe out and you say, And then you breathe out and you say, have mercy upon me, a sinner. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon me, a sinner. And the first time I learned about this prayer was from that modern Russian classic called Way of a Pilgrim. And so I usually pray it the way he formulated it, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. And what ends up happening, it becomes sort of rhythmic in your mind. So you'll say, imagine me breathing this first part in, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. You know, we read in John chapter 15, right, that we are

the vine, sorry, that Christ is the vine, we are the branches, right? So Christ is continually present to us, giving us his grace. He has not, if you want to think of it this way, the Father has not taken his eyes off of you since the moment of your conception. Now that's, of course, an analogy because God doesn't have eyes except for Jesus Christ, but it's even more intense than that. Like if I, you know, or let's say if your mother looked at you from the moment of your conception through a sonogram somehow

and then never stopped looking at you, right, for your entire life until she passed away, that would not be as intimate as the way the Father looks upon you and sustains you in being. And so just as the Father is continually giving to us, the Jesus prayer can be this way of continually receiving from Him, right? So when we say, have mercy on me, like mercy can mean a number of things. It can mean forgive us of our sins,

and God knows, right, that we are in constant need of being forgiven for our iniquities, even if they're slight. But mercy can also mean more than that, right? Like people say things like, please have mercy on me, have mercy on my family, and they don't necessarily mean free me of my sin. It can mean just love me in the way that I need. And, you know, when we say, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner, that's sort of what we're doing. The Jesus Prayer is an amplification of the publican's cry of, what do you say, compunction.

This is from Luke 8.13, O God, be merciful to me, the sinner. I'm reading, by the way, from this little prayer book on the Jesus Prayer, so I'm taking little sentences here and there so that I'm more coherent. It says, Our Savior taught His disciples, this publican's cry, was the model of humble, heartfelt prayer pleasing to God, right? God, be merciful to me, a sinner. And it's almost like it takes that from the publican and joins it with

Peter's proclamation of faith. And he says in Matthew 16, 16, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. So in just a few words, the Jesus prayer unites the two essential elements of Christian belief. First, we proclaim the divinity of Christ, who is our Savior, and then we confess our sinfulness and repentance and our need for Him. And all of this is done when we say, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. So in a way, the Jesus prayer is a summary of the gospel. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. Another reason I think many people love the Jesus prayer is that it's not just incredibly simple, but it can be said anywhere. Now, I love the Holy Rosary as well, but with the Holy Rosary, you have to be, I think,

a lot more attentive and in a different way to when you pray the Jesus Prayer. I remember when I started going to an Eastern church four or five years ago now, you know, someone said, well, I mean, you know, what do you think about, you know, as you pray the Jesus Prayer? And that kind of is a sort of, it makes sense because when you pray the rosary, you're meditating upon a particular gospel passage or event in the life of Christ or the Blessed Mother. But that's not actually what's happening when you pray the Jesus prayer. You're not imagining Christ in your imagination. You're not putting before your imagination a scene from the Holy Gospel.

Rather, you're just placing yourself in the presence of Christ who's always present to you, and you're calling upon Him. And I personally find this really helpful. So if I'll walk through the airport, or I'll be laying in bed at night, or driving in my car, I'll hold this prayer rope, and we'll talk about a prayer rope in a minute, and just continually call upon Him. And yeah, my mind drifts, but that's okay, because I'm trying to get into this state where I'm continually desiring the Lord. And I want to be open to the promptings of the Holy Spirit throughout the day as I am with my children or with my wife or driving in the car. And so calling upon the name of the Lord certainly

helps with that. So you can try to pray this at all times. They say all throughout the day. I've met a few Eastern Catholic monks who that is actually kind of what they say they've been able to do. But certainly, I think it was St. Teresa of Avila who says we cannot pray at all times unless we pray at specific times. And so the fathers, the Eastern fathers, recommend that we consecrate a fixed period of time each day for the practice of the Jesus prayer in stillness, silence, and solitude. And I want to share with you a little quote here from St. Theophan. He says, without having in your mind any visual concept or image, thinking only of Jesus himself present with you and listening to him. So it's really quite beautiful. I remember I've shared this before that when I started praying the Jesus prayer, I would just walk around saying it all day and it becomes psychosomatic.

It really kind of gets attuned to your breathing so that I would find myself, and still do, praying the Jesus prayer without even deciding to. So I might pray the Jesus prayer in the car, let's say, and I might pray like 100 knots or 150 knots, and I might turn the ignition off and put the prayer rope in my pocket and go in for a coffee. And as I'm talking, I might start breathing and I'll find myself saying, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me without even meaning to again, which is pretty cool. And you know, I recorded a video on the Jesus Prayer for Ascension Presents. It's crazy. That thing has had nearly, I want to check this out, I think over a hundred thousand views. If you type in

Jesus Prayer into YouTube, mine is one of the first ones that comes up, which is super humbling because I'm in no way, shape, or form an expert on this issue. Yeah, 126,000 views. Isn't that amazing? So you can go check that out on YouTube. But look at this. This is a beautiful, this is the top comment. It's been upvoted 102 times from a lady called Phyllis Denise. She says, I could not get my blood pressure under 169 over 110. Most times it was at the 188 over 118. Once I received my prayer robe and constantly recited this prayer, my blood pressure is now 114 over 77, praise the Lord. So it's actually a really calming and beautiful thing too. I think some have tried to accuse those who pray the Jesus prayer as sort of trying to flee the body. But in fact,

the exact opposite is true. It brings the body and the mind together, you know, where the Lord dwells in our hearts. So we become unified rather than being scattered in a million different directions, thinking of a million different things, desiring several things, worrying about a multitude of things. I bring my attention to my breath and my deliberate calling upon the name of the Lord. And this is actually a very beautiful and peaceful thing. Anyway, in this video, I explained that my wife had to undergo surgery a couple of years ago. Many of you know that, that she was desperately ill, nearly died.

And when she came out of anesthesia, the doctors or the nurse told her that she was saying, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. And she didn't remember doing it. So that just kind of goes to that point that you can kind of bring this down into your being so that it becomes a continual prayer, which I think is a really, really beautiful thing. Let's talk about what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about the Jesus Prayer. I just want people to know that this is mentioned in the Catechism,

and then we'll take some questions, and then finally look at some quotes from the Eastern Fathers. So this comes from paragraph 2616 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It says, Prayer to Jesus is answered by Him already during His ministry through signs that anticipate the power of His death and resurrection. It says, So there you go, the Catechism mentions that as well. Maybe a little bit about the prayer rope too. The Jesus Prayer is commonly practiced with the aid of a prayer rope,

which is a circular cord of woolen knots with a woven cross at the end, and it's used to count prayers like a rosary. Now, it's woolen because we are the sheep of Christ, but it doesn't need to be woolen. Certainly, the earliest fathers in the East who practiced this weren't necessarily praying on wool. It's often black too, because we are the black sheep. But yeah, it's used in that way. Sometimes it's used with a cross at the end, sometimes with a tassel. That's more the Russian style. The tassel is meant to signify something that wipes away our tears as we pray it. So it's an act of repentance. It's more of a Greek style if it just has that crucifix on the bottom.

So, of course, you can use your rosary to pray the Jesus prayer on. You don't need to get a Jesus prayer cord. But I'm going to throw up in the show notes an email to a friend of mine who makes Jesus prayer kind of ropes. You can call them a chotki, which I believe is Russian for knot. I may have that wrong, but I refer to it as a chotki. But I told him I was going to do this episode. He said, well, throw up my email. I'd be happy to make them a chotki. Obviously, he'd sell it to you. I've bought them off him in the past.

They are absolutely amazing. You can get them on Amazon too if you want, but I'll put up this guy's email. And I'll throw up maybe a link to Patreon too so you can see the kind of prayer ropes he makes because they're absolutely stunning. The other thing on a Jesus prayer, so usually it's like 100, sometimes it's 33 knots, okay, for each year in the life of Christ.

Sometimes it's 150, sometimes 100. And usually every 25th bead, there's just something that separates them. So whereas in the Holy Rosary, you'll pray a glory bee, you know, on the tchotki, you don't necessarily need to pray something on those things that separate the 25 knots, but some people pray, most holy Theotokos, save us. Theotokos, referring to the Blessed Mother as the one who bore the Son of God. Okay, so there you go. I hope that's

really helpful. Now, I would like to take some of your questions. So, here we go. All right, a big thank you to all of you who support the work that we do on, well, all of this work, right? Pints with Aquinas, The Matt Fradd Show, yes, the Bible History Podcast. I am going to be resurrecting that soon for all of you who've been asking me about it. Man, just a lot of fantastic stuff that we're doing, and we cannot do it without your help. I know that that sounds super cliche, but it's actually the truth. So if you want to get access to a bunch of free things, I'll send stickers and beer steins and books to your door that I'll sign for you so that they'll be worth more in the garage sale. books to your door that I'll sign for you so that they'll be worth more in the garage sale.

Ha ha. You know, you can go to patreon.com slash Matt Fradd, give me a dollar a month or more, and immediately you'll start getting access to stuff. So I want to take some questions. I haven't read through all these questions in advance. I just threw up something on Patreon for my patrons to ask about. So let's see. Here is Joseph Daly. He says, can you actually say it a couple of times with the rhythmic breathing? I hear people say that you're supposed to breathe to it, but I always struggle to do that. Yeah, so this is going to sound ridiculous, but for your sake, Joseph, because you're a patron, here you go. You go, oh God, I don't even know I can do it. Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy upon me, a sinner. Like that, right? Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. Like that. So I'm breathing in. So I'm not actually saying Lord Jesus Christ, except with my tongue. I can't

hear myself say it when I do it. And then I breathe it out, have mercy on me. That's how I personally do it. There's no right or wrong way to do it. Okay, I promise I won't breathe heavily and hotly into your ear again, okay? Almost certainly. Here's Justin Garrison. He says, could you talk about the similarities and differences between the Jesus prayer and the rosary? Lots of directions you could go, historical, theological, practical. Yeah, so my understanding is that the rosary developed among the laity who wanted to imitate the monks who would pray all 150 psalms a day. They couldn't pray all 150 psalms, so they prayed 100 aves. Initially, it was just, Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,

and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. So my understanding is when St. Dominic began preaching the rosary, that's what the Hail Mary was. The second part, Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us in this now and at the hour of our death, did not actually enter the Hail Mary until after the Black Plague, was it, when that bit got added on? So there you go, there's a bit about the rosary. So as far as what's more ancient or not, I'm not sure. But I think, let me just say something, it really frustrates me when people in the church try to pit one devotion against the other. To me, this is a sign of immaturity. When people say, well, this is the one thing, you know, if you're not praying the rosary every day or three times a day, then you're not really a Catholic.

That actually really upsets me because these people are saying something which the church isn't. The church does not command you to pray the Holy Rosary every day. It maybe encourages it, just like it encourages other devotions. But if someone's telling you if you're not praying the Holy Rosary every day, or if you're not praying all 15 decades or whatever, you're not really a true Catholic, that person can honestly, I'm going to hold back. I think it was Jose Maria Escriva who said, there are many devotions within the church's treasury. Choose only a few and remain faithful to them. In other words, don't hop around from devotion to devotion because you get this dopamine hit when you see a new thing that you haven't seen before and you get all excited about it. You know, choose one or two or three things and be faithful to them. I like that. Let's see here. Keaton Lambert says, have you read The Way of a Pilgrim, in which the Jesus prayer figures prominently? If you have, what do you think about it? So yeah, I have Keaton mention that in today's

episode. I would recommend checking that out. It's a really interesting book. Okay. Eric Clark says, I was recently challenged on the rosary by a friend who prays the Jesus prayer with a chotki. He's a Protestant, but thinks it may be possible that Mary can intercede for us. Still, he said that the rosary was lopsided and focusing or not focusing on Jesus enough. How would you respond to this? Do you think that's a legitimate reason, particularly for a Catholic, to pray the Jesus prayer instead of the rosary? No, I do not in any way, shape, or form think that that is the case.

I think the Hail Mary is Christocentric. The whole thing climaxes with Jesus, right? Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Why? Blessed art thou among women. Why? Blessed is the fruit of thy womb. What? Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us in this now at the hour of our death. Amen. So since the prayer of a righteous man availeth much, and since Mary is the most righteous creature in heaven, Christ is not a creature, remember, asking for her intercession is not only proper,

but it's also backed up by scripture and what the early church taught. We've done similar episodes on whether the saints can pray for us on Pints with Aquinas, which you can look up if you want. Eric says, same guy, says also cross at the end or tassel, which do you prefer? I used to prefer a tassel, but then they just get annoying because they kind of break apart. So I choose the cross. Evan Smith says, why do you prefer the Jesus prayer over the rosary? If I'm correct in remembering that the rosary has such a long history in the church, has been enthusiastically praised by many popes for centuries, et cetera. The rosary isn't necessary for salvation, but I was just curious. Yeah.

Thanks, Evan. I think that sometimes we get led to different devotions, don't we? I'm not in any way claiming that the Jesus prayer is superior to the rosary, nor would I claim that the rosary is superior to the Jesus prayer. I think both of these are ancient in their practice. One can pray both of them, of course. I personally don't pray the rosary a great deal, but I do pray the Jesus prayer daily. That's my choice. You know, you might make another choice, and that's okay as well, but I prefer praying the Jesus prayer. I find it more conducive, more helpful for me personally, might because I have a, you know a terrible case of ADD, I'm not sure, but I love the rosary too, of course. Josu says, I'd just like to know more about its history. Okay, that was referring to

something else. Okay, Riley Rodia says, the Jesus prayer comes from palimism, right? If so, the Jesus prayer comes from Palomism, right? If so, how do you personally reconcile using a practice that's from a group famously contradictory to Thomism? All right. Thanks, Riley. I've actually asked a Dominican priest by the name of Father Peter Totalbin. He wrote his STL thesis on the topic of the Palamite controversy. It was a Thomistic analysis of that. By the way, Palam, this refers to Gregory of Palamon, or Gregory Palamon, and what he has to say on energies and the divine essence and these sorts of things. But I would just say this. First of all, Gregory Palamus, rather, not not Palaman, lived in the 14th century.

And of course, the Jesus prayer far predates that. So it didn't actually arise from him. But I would also say that, like, even if one has, even if one could offer legitimate criticisms to those, say, who are big fans of hesychasm, which we won't get into, or that sort of prayer style, I think one can criticize that and yet at the same time recognize that calling upon the name of the Lord in the way that the Jesus prayer leads us to is a good thing. In other words, you and I probably know people who pray the Holy Rosary that either pray it in a way that's unhealthy. Like suppose there's someone out there who thinks you've got to pray all three, you know, decades, not decades, all three mysteries. So like 15 decades a day or you'll go to hell.

I'm sure that you can find someone out there, probably in a tradcom box somewhere, who really thinks that if you don't do that, like, you'll go to hell. All right, this person's completely wrong and probably has a super unhealthy view of the Holy Rosary and the Blessed Mother. But you don't kind of take the abuses or perversions of things and say, well, therefore, you can't use them properly. I think you can pray the Rosary properly, even though some people might have an unhealthy view of it or use of it. And the same thing could be said of the Jesus prayer. And again, look forward to this. I'm really excited, hoping Father Peter will agree to be on the show. We'll discuss everything, you know, Gregory Palamas slash Thomas Aquinas-like. So look forward to that. Ryan McKee says, peripherally related, but is there a Byzantine prayer book that you use or recommend?

Yeah, I do. It is called Publican's Prayer Book, put out by Sophia Press. Publican's Prayer Book, put out by Sophia Press. That's kind of the book I carry around. Craig Ferguson asks, what type of tobacco pipe do you use or suggest? Okay. So, okay, well, since you asked, I'll answer. I don't, you know, the more I get different pipes, the more inclined I am to think that, you know, the tobacco makes,

you know, it's more important to have good tobacco than a good pipe. I know some people who swear by the corn cob pipe. They think that's great. I don't know. I like all sorts of pipes. I have a beautiful heavy pipe that has a flat base that I can sit on a table, which I like very much. It's light wood, so it's not tiresome on the teeth as you hold it there. I know Petersons generally can do some good pipes, but they also have some what I consider knockoff Peterson pipes. I think they are produced by Peterson, but they're kind of a lower end variety, which I would stay away from, but you can get some really nice Peterson pipes as well. Bailey Linear, this is the final question. Bailey asks, I teach high school religion, eighth and 10th grade. My students often complain when I try to teach them about the rosary.

We learned this in elementary school. It takes so long. It's so boring. I'm sure you've heard all the same lines. Do you think that Jesus' prayer is more or less approachable than the rosary with regard to high school students? Or in general, really, I hear the same complaints from adults. Do you have any good resources to my students that I could learn more about it? Thanks so much. First of all, when people tell me they find the Holy Rosary boring or the Divine Liturgy boring, I usually say boring people find boring, things boring, right? So it's not the rosary's fault that youurgy boring. I usually say boring people find boring, things boring, right? So it's not the rosary's fault that you find it boring. It's totally your fault. I mean, if some of the greatest saints and popes have encouraged us to pray the Holy Rosary,

if somebody finds it boring, chances are it's their fault. So I would invite them to humility. I wrote a book on the Holy Rosary with Ascension Press. Let's see. Holy Rosary. I don't even remember the name of my own book because, you know, it's pretty cool. Let's see. Isn't that crazy? Just so you know, the publisher chooses the name of the book. It's not usually the author, so I've forgotten it, but it's pretty cool. Come on, where is it? Okay. Pocket Guide to the Rosary. You can look this up, Pocket Guide to the Rosary. It's kind of, it's pretty beautiful. It has a ribbon. It's got a sort of a leathery kind of feel to it. It has beautiful traditional paintings within. I'll put a link in the show notes so you can

check it out. All right. Now, before we wrap up, I want to share with you, as I said, some quotations from the Eastern Fathers on the Jesus prayer. This first one comes from Saint Simeon of Thessalonica. He says, what shall we say of this divine prayer in invocation of the Savior, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon me. It is a prayer and a vow and a confession of faith, conferring upon us the Holy Spirit and divine gifts, cleansing the heart, driving out devils. It is the indwelling presence of Jesus Christ within us and a fountain of spiritual reflections and divine thoughts. It is remission of sins, healing of soul and body, and shining of divine illumination. It is a well of God's mercy, bestowing upon the humble revelations and initiation into the mysteries of God.

It is our only salvation, for it contains within itself the saving name of our God, the only name upon which we call, the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Here is a quotation from St. Diodocus of Photique. Sorry. He says, grace hides its presence within the baptized, waiting for the soul's desire. When the whole man turns himself wholly to the Lord, then in an unutterable experience, it reveals its presence in the heart. If man begins to unwaryingly invoke the Lord Jesus, then the fire of divine grace diffuses itself even to the exterior senses of the heart. Saint John Clomacus wrote, flog the foes with the name of Jesus, for there is no other stronger weapon against them either in heaven or on earth. Let's see. Saint Seraphim of Sarov says, who was crucified for us, we should close our bodily eyes and immerse our mind in our heart,

where we should cry with the invocation of the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Then, according to the measure of his zeal and fervor of spirit for the beloved, a man finds delight in the name pronounced, which arouses desire to seek higher enlightenment. When, through this exercise, the mind tarries in the heart, then there dawns the light of Christ, which sanctifies the temple of the soul with its divine radiance. This light is at the same time life, according to the word of the gospel. In him was life, and the life was the light of man. All right, why don't we do just one more, maybe? One more, and then we'll wrap up here.

Saint Theophan the Recluse, we've already quoted him today. He's had a lot to say about the Jesus Prayer, so let's close with him. He says, the practice of the Jesus Prayer is simple. Stand before the Lord with the attention in the heart and call to him, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me. The essential part of this is not in the words, but in faith, contrition, and self-surrender to the Lord. With these feelings, one can stand before the Lord even without any words, and it will still be prayer. Any rule of prayer that is properly followed will produce as its first fruits attention and a warm tenderness of heart, but especially will these things come from the practice of the Jesus Prayer, which stands on a higher level than

psalmody and other forms of prayer. Attention gives birth to warm tenderness of heart, which in its turn increases attention. They grow in strength together, supporting each other. They give depth to prayer, gradually quickening the heart. So that will do it for today. Thank you very much for tuning into Pints with Aquinas. Do me a favor and review Pints with Aquinas on iTunes or wherever you listen to this podcast. That would greatly help us and we'd be super grateful. I know it only takes like a couple of minutes for you, but it would mean a ton to us. So please review us. Also, if you want to support us on Patreon, that's the only way we're able to keep cranking out this content, which does cost a lot.

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It means a ton. All right. See you next week. I took you in Too many grains of salt and juice Lest we be frauds or worse accused Hollow me to deepen the new Whose wolves am I feeding myself to? Who's gonna survive?

Who's gonna survive? Who's gonna survive? Who's gonna survive? My whole life To carry you