Pints With Aquinas - 199: How to Live an Ordered Life in Quarantine

Starting point is 00:00:00 G'day, welcome to Pints with Aquinas. My name is Matt Fradd. If you could sit down over a pint of beer with Thomas Aquinas and ask him any one question, what would it be? Well today, we are going to be asking Thomas Aquinas, how on earth are we supposed to live an ordered life in quarantine? Welcome back to Pints with Aquinas. This is the show where you and I pull up a barstool next to the angelic doctor to discuss theology and philosophy. And today we're going to be talking about how to live an ordered life. Let's face it. I'd say at least, I think this is probably a conservative estimate, for the next 30 days, you and I are going to essentially be in lockdown. We might go to the store. We might go to a park where there's not many people if they're open. We might hang out with our family in the backyard. But for many of us, we're going to be in some way, shape or form pretty much stuck at home.

Starting point is 00:01:02 What kind of person do you want to be after these 30 days are over? I know, I know it sounds very Tony Robbins asking a question like that, but it's still, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have legitimacy. Maybe you were doing pretty good with your New Year's resolution throughout January. Maybe you were doing a pretty bloody good job into February. This coronavirus lockdown quarantine thing has the potential not just to derail you from your resolutions, but to train you in sloth, to train you in trivial activities. So by the time this quarantine is over, you might be a far worse person than you are now, and then you could have been if you decided to live an ordered life throughout this time. Fair enough? By the way, I'm okay. Many of you have written to me and have asked me how I'm doing. I'm doing okay. For those of you who missed it, I was rushed to the emergency

Starting point is 00:01:58 room by ambulance the other day. It would appear that my wife and I have coronavirus so we are in full-on lockdown here we have these lovely people bringing food to our house dropping it by our doors and then running away as quickly as possible if you want to learn more about what's going on with me you go to my youtube channel and one of the top videos there is just a quick update on my health situation and I get into it in much greater detail there I'm not going to go through all that again, but suffice it to say, yeah, things have been pretty tough. We're not positive we have the coronavirus yet or not. We had some tests done and we should be getting the results tomorrow or the next day. I'll let people know if you're interested, whether we do or we don't. I tell you what, in a way, I hope we do because

Starting point is 00:02:39 if this isn't the coronavirus, my wife and I have not experienced anything like this before. if this isn't the coronavirus, my wife and I have not experienced anything like this before. So in, you know, look, full transparency, these last few days, because of how I've been feeling, have pretty much been wasted away. Now, I don't want to be too quick to say, well, but that's because I'm sick and I couldn't really do much. And sometimes you just have to lie on the couch and sometimes that's okay. Yeah, maybe. But I also think we're kind of pathetic people who like to give ourselves excuses a lot. So I've been laying down watching television and things like this and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is just, I can't keep doing this. And so it was Saturday night that I gave my computer and phone to a friend in typical Matt Fradd style. I

Starting point is 00:03:23 threw it into a bag with my Nintendo switch, zipped it up, gave it to her and said, I'll call you and get it on Monday. Well, I won't call you. I don't have a phone, but I'll come to your house and get it on Monday. And you know, it's amazing when I do things like this, cause I do it quite a bit as my friends know. And the reason I do it is partly because I'm pathetic and don't have self-control. And actually that's pretty much all, that's the only reason I do it. But it's great because you do that, you shut the door, you come and sit down and you're like, okay, there's nothing to do. There's no, what do I do? I want to text someone about this. Can't do it. I want to check

Starting point is 00:03:54 my email about that thing. Can't do it. And so I just spent yesterday kind of reading Augustine's confessions, which is a much more beautiful way to spend my time, I think. Okay. Back to the point at hand, how do you want to be living after these 30 days are over? You could be training yourself to be living a much better life in regards to prayer, in regards to like a musical instrument, in regards to fitness. I mean, think of how many things that you could do that you don't do. And the reason you don't do it is because you say you haven't had time to do it. Well, for many of us, we now have a lot of time to do it. So what's going to stop, we now have a lot of time to do it. So what's going to stop you?

Starting point is 00:04:27 I'll tell you what's going to stop you. It's the same thing that's going to stop me. It's going to be excuses. It's going to be Netflix. It's going to be, well, I feel sick, so I may as well eat like crap. It's going to be sleeping in. It's going to not be having an ordered life. We need to have an ordered life.

Starting point is 00:04:44 We really do. It's going to not be having an ordered life. We need to have an ordered life. We really do. So that's kind of what this podcast is about. I want to share with you a beautiful prayer from Thomas Aquinas. I shared it with my patrons recently, and we've done an episode on it before with Father Ryan Mann. It really is a beautiful prayer. Listen to this.

Starting point is 00:05:02 O merciful God, whatever is pleasing to you, may I ardently desire, wisely pursue, truly recognize, and bring to perfect completion. For the praise and glory of your name, put order into my life and grant that I may know what it is you require me to do and help me to achieve whatever is fitting and necessary for the good of my soul. I'm going to stop there. There's much more we can read, but that is really powerful stuff. For the praise and glory of your name, you, right, to that end, then you must put order into my life. Help me to know what I am to do. And once you have helped me to know it, then you must help

Starting point is 00:05:47 me to achieve it. Help me to achieve what is good and fitting for my soul. Who else feels convicted right now? I feel pretty bloody convicted. Not going to lie, I've been watching Better Call Saul through VidAngel, actually. VidAngel is a fantastic service that enables you to get rid of all the smut and then watch it. It's not a terrible amount of smut in Better Call Saul up until now, but that's what I've been doing for the last couple of days. And I think I've watched like two seasons in like four days. So I've been like on my back, really sick. But again, that's the excuse I've been giving to me. Like, it's okay. Like, it's really okay. Like, you know, just relax. That's, you know, and relax is good. But often

Starting point is 00:06:33 television doesn't give you that relaxation. Computers don't. Ben Shapiro doesn't. They might titillate, right? They might be offering interesting information, useful information even. But very often technology, it stimulates, but it doesn't give leisure. It doesn't give rest. It agitates us. And then it also soothes the agitation. It's like this vicious circle where you want soothing, so you turn to your phone. It agitates you and soothes you all at once.

Starting point is 00:07:01 It's like this kind of crazy thing that I've been noticing lately. So how do you want to live in 30 days? Look, we could talk about a number of things, of course. We could talk about prayer. We could talk about exercise. We could talk about making your bed, going to bed at a certain hour, waking up at a certain time, diet. Let's talk about your prayer life for just one moment, and then we can talk about something else. Because I think that you can kind of apply this to all the other things. My sister is reading a fantastic book right now on habits, and she just sent me a Marco Polo about it, explaining how great it was. And the author points out something that we all know, right? And that's this. We have this false belief that what is required is one kind of ambitious and dramatic decision to change our lives.

Starting point is 00:08:00 We put a lot of stock in that, right? About building up like, I'm just going to do it. I'm going to that, right? About building up, like, I'm just going to do it. I'm going to change, right? But we don't put a lot of stock in to making daily little decisions to get to that end. And his point is we have to do that. I would fall to it. I'd feel so embarrassed, so disgusted, so ashamed that I went back to the thing I said I wouldn't go back to. And I remember just like distinctly, I have this, this memory of me kneeling in a church and just being like, I will never do that again. You know, like I'm being so intense about it and it felt really heroic and I meant it. I absolutely meant it. Like this is it. This has got to be it. And you know the story. A week later, maybe two weeks later, I was looking at porn again, right? We've all had experiences like this. Like this is the year I'm going to exercise.

Starting point is 00:08:57 This is the day, this is the month I'm going to get my prayer life in order or whatever it is. And it feels really good. You make that decision. You feel really good that day and then you fail. I think here's a good lesson. I've mentioned it before. Don't underestimate how pathetic you are. Now, I don't mean that you don't have tremendous potential, but what I mean is a lot of that potential has not yet been actualized. This is why we want to pray that God puts order into our life so that that potential might be actualized. This is why we want to pray that God puts order into our life so that that potential might be actualized. But I think too often, maybe we have this higher view of ourselves than we should have. And we say, I'm going to pray every day. That's my new thing. I'm going to pray for an hour in the morning. You know what? I'm going to get up at 5.30. 5.30 in

Starting point is 00:09:39 the morning means enough to me. In fact, I'm going to go and I'm going to buy a coffee machine and I'm going to put it in my downstairs basement or in this prayer room. And that's going to be the thing that I do. I'm going to fill up the coffee at night. And can you tell that maybe I've done this before? And I'm going to wake up and I'm going to flick that coffee on. I'm going to read the Bible. And this is going to be me from now on. But what we haven't realized is how pathetic we are. And that is to say, we've done it. We'll do it once and we'll do it twice and then we won't do it again. Another point this author brings up in this book, my sister's reading is it's more important to show up. And so one of the things he says is if you want to make a specific habit work stick, you want to begin by doing it for

Starting point is 00:10:23 two minutes at a time. So suppose you're like, I'm going to start exercising. He's like, okay, wake up in the morning and exercise, but only for two minutes and no more. Because it's more important to show up consistently than to get really passionate about something, do it for an hour or whatever, and then not do it again. And I just would like to kind of apply that to prayer. There is absolutely no excuse for you not to be praying morning and night. Absolutely no excuse whatsoever. So why the bloody hell don't you do it? Or maybe you do do it. Terrific. That's great. But some of you don't. Or some of you have, but now you don't. Why? Make your prayer simple because you're more pathetic than you think you are right now.

Starting point is 00:11:16 You're not always going to be like that maybe, but right now you probably are. I am. So here's what I do. When I wake up in the morning, I've said this before, I'll say glory to Jesus Christ. And that's when my consciousness kind of comes into my head, if you want to put it that way. If my wife is awake, which is hardly ever, she's usually sleeping, she'll say, glory forever. But if she's not awake, I'll say it to myself. So I'll say, glory to Jesus Christ, glory forever, and I'll get out of the bed. And then I'll walk out into the lounge room where we have this icon wall, and I'll light the candles, and I'll pray a very specific set of prayers. It's not a big deal. In fact, if you listened to my YouTube video where I spoke about my health update, you heard basically the night prayer that I pray every night.

Starting point is 00:12:01 It's beautiful, I think, but it's very, you know, it's what, five minutes, 10 minutes? That's it. That's it. Now, I could get down on myself and say, this is ridiculous. I really ought to be getting up at five and spending an hour in the bar. And maybe I should, maybe you should, but here's something that's bloody true. If I won't spend five or 10 minutes every morning doing the prayer that I currently do, there ain't no way I am going to, with a surge of enthusiasm, make myself pray for an hour every single morning. So I want to say to you, when it comes to prayer,

Starting point is 00:12:39 choose something to do in the morning, choose something to do at night. Just that's it. That's it. It might be the Angelus, right, in the morning. And at night, you might pray in Our father, or you might read one passage of scripture. I think here's a few things, right? To put order into our lives, those things that we want to do daily. And we're going to talk a little bit more about kind of a systematic approach to the day. But as far as like the thing we want to begin to do more, like the good habit, I think here's what they

Starting point is 00:13:06 have to be. You have to be very clear on what it is you want to do, right? Because you and I aren't lacking maybe in enthusiasm. What we're lacking in is clarity. So rather than saying, I'm going to pray every single morning from now on, it might be way more helpful. And I think it bloody well is way more helpful for you to say, I'm going to pray the Angelus tomorrow morning. And not just to say what you're going to do and to be specific about what you're going to do as far as the specific prayer, but where you're going to do it. I'm going to wake up tomorrow morning at 7am and pray the Angelus on my knees by my bed. That's what I'm going to do. Do you see how clear that is? I think that's

Starting point is 00:13:45 probably the first thing, right? And then here's another idea. You might reward yourself for accomplishing this thing that you want to begin doing. And that might be to then have a cup of coffee. And you might just agree that I will not have my cup of coffee until I've been on my knees and have said the Angelus. And I'm going to put a little post-it note on my coffee, whatever, percolator or French press that's going to say pray first. I was going to leave it there. And that's just what I'm going to do. And I'm going to do that for a week. Isn't it funny, brothers and sisters, that in one way, it kind of feels like I'm talking to us like we're children. But in another sense, I think you would agree with me. We kind of are. We are, what is it that our blessed Lord says to St. Peter? The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. That's you and me. We've

Starting point is 00:14:32 got these grand designs, these grand plans as to how we're going to look and what we're going to do and how we're going to eat. But unless we're very bloody specific, well, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. So that's one example, right? Here's another thing I think you should do in regards to prayer. And by the way, when I say you should do it, I mean, you should do it like stop the podcast and do it. I think you should find an accountability partner, like find someone in your life and say, Hey, I'm going to do prayer. Like I'm going to do morning prayer for the next two weeks and I'm not going to miss a day. All right. And you say to that friend, like could we check in every day?

Starting point is 00:15:06 Text, something like that. I'm just going to text you after I've done my prayer, something like that. It'll feel like you're boasting, but you're not. Why aren't you? Well, because you're so pathetic that you need to text someone just to get yourself to pray. So don't feel too good about yourself. Something like that I think would be really helpful. What do you think?

Starting point is 00:15:24 We want to have order in our life. We have about 30 days, probably more, in quarantine. We can train ourselves in being lazy, wasting our days away, looking at screens, or we can learn to do something beautiful. We could read a book. Here's one thing you might be interested in. On Patreon, we're about to release a seven-part video series course by Stephen Rammelsberg on the great books of Western literature. We've done courses in the past on Dante, on Flannery O'Connor. We're hoping to do one on Augustine's Confessions. This one is going to be on the great books of the Western canon.

Starting point is 00:16:00 Stephen is going to be recording these 20-minute videos. He showed them to me. They actually look quite good. He's going to be in the comments section, responding to all of your questions. If you've wanted to kind of read beautiful books, but haven't known how to start, this will help you. That could be something you could do. Oh, by the way, let this be a pitch for Patreon. We're obviously having people leave Patreon because of all that's going on around the world. And I totally understand it. And I am in no way upset that people feel the need to quit. That said, all this stuff still costs money. So if you are in a

Starting point is 00:16:31 place to support Pints with Aquinas, go to patreon.com slash Matt Fradd. Patreon.com slash Matt Fradd. You'll see right there all the different things that I'll send you, books, stickers, all the courses you'll get access to right away. But at least just go check it out, patreon.com slash Matt Fradd. But I mean, that could be something that you and I do for 30 days. We could read a book. We could read Augustine's Confessions in 30 days. You know? All right. Let me share an analogy with you because I found this analogy really helpful. It's one of those analogies that it almost feels a little hallmark. You know what I mean? A little kind of, what do you say? Cheesy, but it's got a point to it. Imagine in front of you, you have a very large glass jar. And then to one side, you have three different groups of things. You have rocks,

Starting point is 00:17:21 you have pebbles, and you have sand. The rocks stand for those important things, meaningful things that you want to do, that you want to have. The pebbles represent things that are somewhat meaningful and good, and the sand represents just those mind-numbing, time-killing activities that we engage in. time-killing activities that we engage in. If you fill that vase up with sand to the top, you will not have any room for those meaningful things or the somewhat meaningful things, that is to say the rocks or the pebbles. But if you would tip that jar over and then fill up that jar with rocks, you would then actually, you would fill that up and then you would also have room for the pebbles, right? You could drop those pebbles in that they would fill up the spaces. And after that, you would have time to fill it up with some sand. But I think very often what Netflix and iPhones and Gmail and podcasts are teaching us to do, including this one maybe,

Starting point is 00:18:19 is to just sort of numb out and not to actually do anything meaningful. And forgive me if this sounds dramatic, but the other day when I was on the EKG in the doctor's office and they told me my heart looked bad and they needed to rush me to the emergency room, and I was having tremendous chest pains the night before, there was a part of me that thought I was going to die. And while I was in that ambulance whizzing down the road, I was thinking to myself, and while I was in that ambulance whizzing down the road, I was thinking to myself, oh, how futile the pursuits of the world are. How beautiful and sweet were the times of prayer that I had, you know? How sorry I am that I wasn't more courageous in my fasts and in my prayers and in my selfless giving to my wife. How pathetic it seems now,

Starting point is 00:19:07 right? Many of the fights that I got into with her or with other people that had to do with my ego, you know? It's like you see things very clearly when you think you're kind of coming to an end. This is helpful, I think. And can I just say this too? As I'm talking to you, I am preaching to myself. I'm very aware of the fact that I've been watching Netflix and watching Amazon and haven't been going to bed at a decent hour, haven't been waking up at a decent hour. And honestly, right, part of that is because I've been very sick, fair enough. But I don't want to live like that. I've been eating whatever. I've been eating junk. Yeah, I don't want to do that. So what am I going to do about it? I could have a vague sense that I want to change, or I could name it. I could say, okay, I want to eat paleo tomorrow. I'm going to tell my friend about it, and I'm going to commit to that, and I'm going to text him in the morning and ask him to check in with me. You know, something like that. Very, very bloody helpful, I think. Very helpful. I think here's another thing, before we get onto Aquinas' prayer here. What are you going to do when you fail? I think that's a very important question.

Starting point is 00:20:15 You commit to praying every day in the morning for the next two weeks. Let's just use the Angelus as an example. What do you do the day you fail? What do you do? That's, I think, almost a more important question than how am I going to succeed in this or something. I think the same author that my sister was talking to me about was saying, don't ever miss two days in a row. Miss one day? Okay. Don't miss two days. And I think that's a good question to ask. What am I going to do when I miss a day? Because we have this kind of perfectionism. I'm either going to get this perfect, or I'm not going to do it at all, and we let the great be the enemy of the good.

Starting point is 00:20:53 Well, yeah, it'd be good to pray every day, but remember, you're pathetic yet, and still aren't as awesome as you will be, as awesome as you can be, as I can be. And so what am I going to do when I miss a day? Am I going to give up? I'm going to get back to it. Here's another thing I want to say, and I found this very helpful. Calendar everything. Here's something you might think of doing. I use what's called a monk manual. I'm not plugging his thing, but it's a very excellent little manual. Let me, well, it's over there. I'm not going to get it, but that's a great little manual you could use. It has, well, here's the top three things I'm going to accomplish this day.

Starting point is 00:21:31 Here's the other things. Here's the things that I'm grateful for. And then at the end of the day, it helps you to reflect. Here's when I was at my best. Here's when I was agitated or whatever. Monk manual. Look it up. I think it's, I know, I think it's run by a Catholic actually.

Starting point is 00:21:41 I'm pretty good. Yeah, I'm actually convinced now. Yep, it is. And it's, it's really well done. I'm not advertising for him or anything like that, but I use that. Getting those three things done. Like, if I get nothing else done today, what are those three things going to be? And one of those things might be take a nap.

Starting point is 00:21:55 Because taking a nap is great. One of those things might be having a bourbon with my wife on the porch. Because having a bourbon with my wife on the porch is beautiful. It might be reading a chapter of Scripture. And then you can check these things off, schedule it out. So if you don't have a book like that, monk manual, there's other people who do them as well. Focus, full focus planner is another one that I used to use. I think having something like that can be very helpful. But if you don't have anything like that, like writing down the top three things you're going to get to do that day, I found that very helpful.

Starting point is 00:22:29 So if you want to be productive, you want to have an ordered life, you need to set it in order almost before it happens. Don't let life happen to you, you happen to life. I know I'm aware of how very much self-help a lot of this sounds. But we aren't merely helping ourselves. We're doing this with the grace of God. We began with that, didn't we? He's like Aquinas, he says,

Starting point is 00:22:51 for the praise and glory of your name, put order into my life. So he's telling God to do it. And then he says, and grant that I may know what it is you require me to do and help me to achieve whatever is fitting and necessary for the good of my soul. So he's saying, you put order into my life by telling me what it is you want me to do, and then you help me to do it. So this is not a sort of pull yourself up by your bootstraps sort of talk that I'm giving you here. This is all based on the mercy of God and the grace of God. So here's what I'll do. I want to finish with

Starting point is 00:23:26 this beautiful, beautiful prayer. I will throw it up in the show notes. One beautiful thing you might do is choose to memorize it. Wouldn't that be a cool thing to do, to memorize this prayer? Here it is. Oh, merciful God, whatever is pleasing to you, may I ardently desire, wisely pursue, truly recognize, sorry, truly recognize and bring to perfect completion. For the praise and glory of your name, put order into my life and grant that I may know what it is you require me to do and help me to achieve whatever is fitting and necessary for the good of my soul. May my way, Lord, be yours entirely, upright and perfect, failing in neither prosperity nor adversity, so that in prosperity I give you thanks and in adversity serve patience, neither exalted in the former nor dejected in the latter. May I not rejoice in anything,

Starting point is 00:24:22 unless it leads me to you, nor be saddened by anything unless it turns me from you. How beautiful is that line? Right now you're dealing with sickness. You're dealing with your small company closing. You may have been laid off from work. Aquinas is saying, unless that led you away from Christ, then you are not to be saddened by it. And I'm someone who is like going through a lot of sickness right now. Right? So this isn't just me like speaking about something I'm not going through. Glory to Jesus Christ for this sickness. Glory to Jesus Christ that my Instagram account

Starting point is 00:24:54 with 35,000 followers was hacked into by a dude from Iran. Seriously, go check it out. Glory to God. Glory to God. Right? It may not have been his perfect will, but he certainly permitted it. Glory to God. It may not have been his perfect will, but he certainly permitted it. So glory. What a beautiful thing. Praise you, Jesus. I rejoice and I will not be saddened unless anything turns me away from you.

Starting point is 00:25:19 Aquinas says, may I not desire to please or fear to displease anyone but you. How beautiful is that? May all passing things become worthless to me on your account, and all things that are yours be dear to me, and you, God, above all things. May all joy without you leave me tired and weary, and may I not desire anything apart from you. May all work that is done for you delight me, Lord, and all repose not centered on your presence be wearisome. Let me, my God, direct my heart to you often and let me grieve over my failure with determination to change.

Starting point is 00:25:58 Make me, my God, humble without pretense, cheerful without frivolity, sad without dejection, mature without heaviness, quick-witted without levity, truthful without duplicity. Let me fear you without despair and hope in you without presumption. Let me correct my neighbor without hypocrisy and without pride, edify him by word and example, obedient without contradiction, patient without murmuring. Give me, dearest God, a vigilant heart which no distracting thought can lure away from you. Give me a noble heart which no unworthy desire can ever debase. Give me an unconquered heart which no tribulation can fatigue. Give me a free heart which no violent temptation can enslave. Give me an upright heart which no perverse intention can hold fast. Grant me, Lord, my God, intelligence

Starting point is 00:26:52 in knowing you, diligence in seeking you, wisdom in finding you, conversation pleasing to you, perseverance in confidently waiting for you, and confidence in finally embracing you. Grant that as penance, I may be afflicted with your hardships. As grace, make use along the way of your favors. As glory, delight in your joys in the fatherland. Amen. So much in there. If you're interested, I did a Pines with Aquinas episode with Father Ryan Mann, which I'll find a thing for you here in a minute, which you can check out because we really delve into that. And Father Ryan Mann is just a brilliant guy, very insightful. And I think you'll find that very, very helpful if you haven't yet checked it out. So hopefully some of the things that we've been

Starting point is 00:27:40 saying today will help. I think, again, that we need to have our resolutions be concrete and obvious, not vague. And I think we have to kind of make them attractive. So I'm going to do that, then I'm going to do this. Making them easy, making them simple, realizing, I know I've said it and it's a little disparaging, and I'm doing that just to kind of upset you a little, I suppose, but that we're actually more pathetic than we think. And so being a lot more modest in our goals, and then as we begin to achieve them, going on from there. So I hope that's a help. I will put that in the show notes, that beautiful prayer, and maybe you'll even decide to memorize that. Hey, next week, I'm very excited about this. I have Dr. Andrew Swofford on the show. He is a theologian and scripture scholar from Benedictine. He is awesome. I interviewed him before the corona craziness.

Starting point is 00:28:33 So that's going to be out on YouTube on Monday, and it's going to be a podcast on Tuesday, and you're not going to want to miss this. If you want to love scripture, but you don't know how, if you feel like your enthusiasm for scripture is waning, my goodness gracious. Yeah, this guy's absolutely, he's unreal. It's absolutely amazing. There's just so much coming up on Pints with Aquinas. I interviewed this brilliant psychologist all about anxiety and depression and how to live in the modern age. We talk about technology, how it plays into that. I sat down with him for like three hours to discuss that kind of stuff. Oh my gosh, so much is coming up and I'm so excited to do it. As I said, halfway through the episode,

Starting point is 00:29:13 I really need your help to make that happen, especially now as people are quitting during the coronavirus. We are putting out a ton of content online just for patrons, meditations, and things like this. So please consider becoming a patron patreon.com slash matt frad i will send things like signed books beer stein stickers to your door you'll also get access to our ever-growing audio library of papal encyclicals and courses on dante and flannery o'connor and now the great books of western civilization that's coming out soon so please again check that out patreon.com slash matt fr, patreon.com slash Matt Fradd, patreon.com slash Matt Fradd. Finally, if you wanted to listen to that episode that I did with Father Ryan Mann on how to order your life, it's episode 125. So be sure to check that out.

Starting point is 00:29:54 Thanks so much for listening. If you haven't yet reviewed us on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts, be sure to do that. Give us a five-star review. It really helps spread the word about Pints with Aquinas. Thanks carry you.

Pints With Aquinas - 199: How to Live an Ordered Life in Quarantine

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