Pints With Aquinas - 223: Aquinas, Pornography & Remedies for Sorrow

Episode Date: September 15, 2020

In my first talk since our country was shut down by COVID, I address the students at Franciscan University of Steubenville about porn and Aquinas’s remedies for lust and sorrow.  We tackle:  Aquinas’s underwhelming, yet vitally necessary, remedies for lust Why Aquinas’s remedies for sorrow are essential in the struggle against porn Students’ questions and Aquinas’s answers for beating porn addiction The texts I’ll be drawing from can be found here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41347207 Learn more about my new 7-part Augustine Series here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/7-part-course-on-41416872  SPONSORS EL Investments: https://www.elinvestments.net/pints  Exodus 90: https://exodus90.com/mattfradd/  Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd  STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/  GIVING Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mattfradd This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer coproducer of the show. LINKS  Website: https://pintswithaquinas.com/ Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/ SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd MY BOOKS Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx CONTACT Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform  

G'day everybody, welcome to Pints with Aquinas. My name is Matt Fradd. Today I want to share with you a recent talk that I gave at Franciscan University of Steubenville up in Ohio. It was the first talk that I gave since COVID hit. I was able to fly up there with my son and I spoke to around 500 university students who are all social distancing in a gigantic gym. students who are all social distancing in a gigantic gym. You can watch the talk on YouTube if you want to watch it rather than listen to it. But it was really great to give the talk. And the reason I'm sharing it on Pints with Aquinas is because I shared Aquinas' four remedies for lust, and then I shared his five remedies for sorrow. And you might be wondering why I would do that. Why would you talk about his remedies for sorrow? And I explained this in the talk, but briefly, it's because I think one of the primary reasons people habitually masturbate or look at pornography is to self-soothe. And if we are in an agitated or anxious

state, we may be more likely to turn back to these things that we've done perhaps since our childhood in order to sort of self-regulate. And Aquinas' remedies for sorrow aren't just there so that we can use them when we feel sad, but we can also think of them as how to live a beautiful life. And so that's why I share them with you. And so I hope you'll enjoy this talk. Before we get into it, I want to say a big thanks to Halo, who is one of our sponsors. They are the number one Catholic app in the United States. They've got a five-star rating on the iTunes, or rather the App Store. And there's something for everyone. So if you're just getting started with prayer, there's something for you. If you've been praying for a while,

they've got a ton of great stuff that you can listen to, and it'll guide you in these different sort of meditations. They've got meditations on the daily gospels, the rosary, divine mercy chaplet. They have daily examines, night prayer, minute meditations. You can also fall asleep with Bible sleep stories. Different people have read on that. I think Jonathan Rumi, who plays Jesus in The Chosen, has read one of those. Father Mike Schmitz has. It's free to download and it has permanently free content. Plus, it has a premium subscription with extra content. So, you can get a 30-day free trial by signing up at hallo.com slash mattfradd. And then you'll have 30 days. You can try the entire thing out for free and decide if you want to continue with it. I've been using it. My wife has been using it. And I think they're doing a really great job. It's terribly sophisticated. It's not one of

these kind of cheap apps thrown together. It's very well done and 100% Catholic. Hello.com slash Matt Fradd. Also, just to remind you that this Thursday begins our seven-week video course on Augustine's Confessions. Dr. Chad Englund from the University of Dallas, who specializes in St. Augustine and Augustine's Confessions, is going to lead us in this seven video lecture series. And we're going to be going through the book together on Patreon. So if you want to understand the Confessions or you've always wanted to read it, So if you want to understand the confessions or you've always wanted to read it, here's your opportunity. Not only will Dr. Chad Englund be leading the lectures, he'll also be in the comments section responding to your comments and questions.

The only way you can get access to that is by becoming a patron over at patreon.com slash mattfrad for $10 a month or more. And the course starts this Thursday. Now, you could also quit after the course is done. So it's not like you have to commit to a year of helping us here at Pints of the Kiwanis on Patreon. If you just want to, you know, I'd love you to stick around, but if you don't want to, I'm just saying that's an option for you. But I'm looking forward to going through the course. I know everyone on Patreon, on my Patreon is really pumped about it. So go check it out, patreon.com slash Matt Fradd. Patreon.com slash Matt Fradd. Just by signing up, you'll get, you know, I'll also send you stuff, by the way, free books, you know, stickers, things sent to your door,

things like that. But this course starts this Thursday and you'll get a notification by email as soon as it's out. All right, here's the show. Good evening, everybody. Good evening, everybody. Thank you all for being here. Could we just begin the evening in a word of prayer? In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Saint Francis of Assisi, pray for us. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Thank you all again so much for being here tonight. We are delighted to have Matt Fradd speaking with us, a man who, in my opinion, will have the second best accent of the evening. But there may be those who beg to differ. We're very proud to be bringing Matt to campus as a collaborative event organized by student government, by Franciscan Life, and by Student Life. And there was a moment where we thought it wasn't going to come together with all the virus restrictions and whatnot.

But it, in the end, worked out very providentially. And so we're very grateful to have him here this evening. Matt Fradd is someone who speaks to tens of thousands of people every year. And he's also the best-selling author of a number of books, including Does God Exist? and The Porn Myth. Matt's podcast, Pints of a Kindness, receives hundreds of thousands of downloads every month. He earned his master's and undergraduate degrees in philosophy from Holy Apostles College, and his new course, Strive 21, a 21 detox from porn, equips men with the tools they need to quit porn for good. And Matt lives with his wife Cameron and their children in Georgia,

and his 12-year-old son Liam is actually here tonight. Like I said, we are really excited to have Matt here tonight. Just on a personal level, Matt is someone who, through his works, through his talks, has really influenced me in my spiritual journey, and the things that he's had to say, and the witness he's given in the areas of purity, in the areas of faith, has really helped me to become the man that I am today. So I'm just really grateful and honored to be able to welcome Matt here tonight. This is lovely. Okay.

St. Augustine said that the beard signifies the courageous. My wife said the beard signifies those whose wives won't kiss them. Augustine, Cameron, I had to, you know. Thank you so much for coming out this is the first talk and by talk I mean talk that I've given since March it was in Chicago as everything went crazy

and then I went home and that was it until now and so this is terrific I love Steubenville. I love Steubenville, and it's just an honor. It really is. And it sounds kind of cheesy, like you're supposed to say that to make you feel good about yourself. And maybe I did mean that as well, but I also mean it's an honor to be here. I know we prayed, but I need to pray again. So if you want to join me, you can. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. O heavenly King, comforter, spirit of truth,

you are everywhere present and fill all things. You are the treasury of blessing and the giver of life. Come and dwell within us. Cleanse us of all stain and save our souls, O gracious one. Saint Mary of Egypt, pray for us.

Saint Vitalis of Gaza, pray for us. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. I have been speaking on the issue of pornography for the last ten or so years. Weird job. I've spoken to hundreds of issue of pornography for the last 10 or so years. A weird job.

I've spoken to hundreds of thousands of people, teens and college students alike, and it has just been such a tremendous honour. I've never had a talk go bad, so we'll see what happens. But when I speak to high school students or college students, it always seems like something people are very much ready to talk about. And in fact, just a few years ago, I gave a presentation right from here, actually, on pornography. And it was during one of these Steubenville teen conferences. How many of you have been to one of those conferences? Nice. All right. So it was Saturday

night when they were doing the kind of procession with the Eucharist, you know, and I should have been on my knees praying, but I was standing right there by the curtain thinking, I just want to go back to my bed, and I was wondering if the leader of the Steubenville Conference would notice. It feels really awkward to admit that, but while I was standing there, all right, this lovely young woman, well, I didn't know she was lovely yet. I just knew it was a amorphous blob of black walking towards me, and then I noticed she was a lovely young woman, and she came up to me, and she was crying. And my usual experience of women crying, coming to me, like my daughters, and I know what to do with my me like my daughters and I know what to do with my daughters but I don't know what to do with teenage girls who come and cry at me you know like

there there it'll be fine please go speak to another female I don't know how to do this you know and I said oh what what's the matter and she said that she had something she wanted to tell me that she had never told anyone before. And I thought, goodness, well, if you want to tell me, I will reverence what you have to say, but I'm playing it safe and diplomatic. No pressure. I'm not coercing you. Whatever.

You know, I didn't say that. And so she was shaking. And she said, no one's ever known this. I've been coming to these conferences for years now. And I knew what she was going to say and so do you. And then it just spilt out of her, you know. She said, I've been looking at porn since I was 10 and nobody knows this, you know. I gave her the most affectionate side hug that was appropriate. And I just said, you're good, you're good,

you're beautiful, you're lovely, you're not a freak, you're good, you're good, you know. And I said, now we need to, you need to go to confession, and then you need to come and tell me after you've gone, you know. And we had a little chat, and I said, you've got to come and tell me. So the next day, just before Holy Mass, this lovely girl comes up, bouncing, beaming, you know. And she said it was a fantastic confession, you know. And glory to Jesus Christ, you know. So this is the kind of stuff I get to see all the time. So you might be in here today as a man who looks at porn or a woman who looks at porn.

Maybe you have a loved one who looks at porn. Maybe a parent. Maybe a younger sibling. Maybe this is not your struggle, but you'd like to learn how to talk about it a little bit more. Here's how tonight's going to go. I want to talk about Aquinas' four remedies for overcoming lust, and then I want to talk about his five remedies for sorrow, and I'll mention why I'm doing that in a minute. I hope that'll probably take about 30 minutes. I don't want to talk your ear off, and then we'll get into the more exciting portion of the talk, that is questions and answers, which is always, if I'm in your shoes, that's what I want to do. I don't want to just watch

this guy speak. So that's what we'll do. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 2339, under chastity, it says this. The alternative is clear. Either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy. It's nice to know you have an option, you know? Like, I'm certainly not here to tell you what to do. You can do whatever you want. As we say in Australia, you're old enough and ugly enough to make this decision. It's very hurtful, actually. We have something to choose here. We can choose to go down the dead-end road that Pornhub would like us to be

on, or we could choose to listen to the church and strive against that. One road leads to, like, legit misery and unhappiness, and the other can lead to peace. And so that's why we're going to talk about Aquinas on overcoming porn and living a more beautiful life, because the point of quitting porn isn't to quit porn. The reason I want to quit porn, the reason you want to quit porn, is so that I can live a more beautiful life and so that I can be saved. Before I let you know what Aquinas has to say, and you have it on your handouts there, I should point out that over the last 40 years there's been a lot of studies that have come out of academia from neurology, psychology and sociology. All of it is overwhelmingly saying that porn is detrimental

to the consumer, to our relationships and to society as a whole. As I stand here today, there are over 50 neuroscience-based studies on porn users, all of which support the addiction model and show how porn, which is a natural addiction, that is to say not a substance I bring into my body, but a behavior that elicits similar effects, how that begins to damage the brain. We have over 70 studies that show a correlation between porn use and relational dissatisfaction. Jason Everett's right. Pornography is the perfect way to shoot your future marriage in the head. We have over 30 studies that show correlation between porn use and sexual dysfunction. Things like premature ejaculation, erectile dysfunction in men,

women being unable to climax with their spouse, and other things. Twelve of those 30 studies, at least 12, show not just correlation but causation, since once the one factor of pornography was removed, the sexual functioning was regained. As this knowledge trickles down from academia, as science catches up with what the church has always taught in a more general way, we're beginning to see more and more people speak out against the problem of pornography who we might not have expected to 10, 20, 30 years ago. problem of pornography who we might not have expected to 10, 20, 30 years ago. Kanye West just came out and talked about how porn wrecked his view of women. This coming from a dude who has an album cover that is actually pornographic. Pamela Anderson, who was the Playboy Bunny of the 90s, came out and said those who watch porn are losers. I wouldn't say that. But the fact she said it is illustrative that some sort of change is taking place. When I was in high school, my favorite band was Metallica. One person. James Hetfield,

the lead singer of Metallica, just recently, over the last five years, narrated an anti-porn documentary called Chasing the Cardboard Butterfly. If you'd have told me in high school that James Hetfield would have one day done that, I would have asked you what drugs you were on and if you wouldn't mind sharing. That just seemed like a fun place to be. Terry Crews has opened up on his Facebook page about his own recovery of pornography. Many brave young women are now beginning to speak out, and I think it takes even more bravery for women

since for so long we've pretended or have been unaware of the fact that this is something that both men and women struggle with, but so many brave women are beginning to speak out against this. So that's pretty cool. All right, let's look at some of these four ways to overcome lust. I want to begin by saying that there's nothing new here.

And if you have already perused those four things that Aquinas has to say, you may have found yourself feeling disappointed. Disappointed because, yes, I've heard that before. But there's this great line from Chesterton about Christianity, which I think we can apply to advice on overcoming porn, believe it or not. Here's the quote. He said, Christianity has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found difficult and left untried. Something similar, you know, with pornography advice. It's not that the advice has been tried and found unwanting. It's very often that it's been found difficult and left untried.

But we always like novel bits of advice. You know, I remember someone sent some, like, weight loss pills to my house by mistake. It was my next-door neighbor. I had to very awkwardly be like, I think these are yours. It's like we want weird advice, you know, like rub cabbage on your feet while listening to the Bee Gees. No more porn. Well, you won't be tempted anymore. You know, we want to hear that kind of thing, but we don't have that. We have very practical advice, all right? Here's the first thing that Aquinas has to say, and it's incredibly helpful. He says that overcoming sort of lust is difficult. Listen to what he says here.

We must realize that the avoidance of concupiscence, those disordered desires that we have for sexuality and sex, demands much labor, for it is based on something within us. It is as hard as trying to capture an enemy in one's own household. However, this desire can be overcome. So there you are. So if you're sitting here today and you're like, why do I find this so difficult? Aquinas is like, because it's so difficult. So that's nice that Aquinas is with you on that, you know, that's good. The first two things he has to say here are flee from these sort of external temptations and guard your thoughts. These are two things we've heard many times, right? And we hear this in Sirach 21 too, flee from sin as from a snake.

But I think if we're honest, many of us continue even to this day to pussyfoot around with sin. We're led into this sin through our Netflix account, through the conversations we have, through the music we listen to, because we're not yet willing to take the advice to flee and to guard our thoughts. We might do it sporadically. We might think, well, a little bit of this is okay, and it should be okay, and then you fall on your face, and then you regret it, but then you go back to it again. I remember when I was 17 years old, I came to Christ.

Well, He came to me, I suppose. In the year 2000, I was in Rome. I went as an agnostic, came back as one of those Catholics who's so happy it makes you sick. And everyone around me was watching these terrible, terrible shows for low IQ teenagers, you know, American Pie. You wouldn't remember it, I don't think. But I remember having this struggle, like I want to watch this because all my friends are watching this, you know. I still yet wasn't ready to flee from it like a snake. Let me ask you this, if you are struggling with pornography today, maybe you're not struggling, maybe you just give in to it, you know. Struggle implies to violently resist. If you are looking

at pornography today, how serious are you and I about overcoming it? If you found out tomorrow that you had cancer, what wouldn't you do? Who wouldn't you see? How much money wouldn't you try to find? Where wouldn't you fly to? What treatment wouldn't you undergo so that you would be whole again? And I think we need that kind of determination when it comes to pornography, which can kill our marriages, right? Kill our just this ability to perceive the goodness in life and in people, kills our sexuality, and can kill our souls. I want to read to you a quotation that just punched me in the guts recently. It comes from Jesus Ortega, Saints in the World, The Adventure of Christian Life. Listen to this and maybe apply it to yourself. You know well how to remedy your situation, and yet you still speak of it as being a problem of

purity. Yours is not a problem of purity. It's a problem of laziness, possibly physical and mental laziness as well, but definitely spiritual laziness. Continue with that out-of-focus, useless life of yours. Let your go-with-the-flow feelings overcome you as usual at the time for getting up. Go to bed at any old time whenever you happen to feel like it. Make no effort to form a plan of life. Waste time as usual. Spend as much time as you can in idle pursuits. Let your eyes rest on anything they notice. Let your imagination wander freely. And lazy coward that you are, you will soon see how wide are the gates of hell. That might be something you need to hear tonight. I was speaking to a young bloke at a focus

conference once. He came up to my table and he told me how difficult it was to overcome pornography. And my immediate response is to sort of sympathize with this bloke because I know it's difficult. And I said, I'm sorry and like, let's talk. What are you going through? And I asked him, you know, do you have an accountability partner? And he was very sullen, looking at the floor. No, I don't. Do you have, you have covered in eyes? I had it for a bit, but I don't have it anymore. And eventually I'm like, I need to go Jose Maria Escriva on him, I think, you know, enough of this. So I, he wasn't looking at me. So I said, okay, we'll just go up and masturbate to porn then. I think they have free Wi-Fi at the hotel, you could just do that. And he looked up at me and was rather shocked. He said, I don't want

to. And I said, well, maybe quit your whining and man up, or wonder woman up, whatever the equivalent is, you see? Like, we have to make strong decisions here. And it can be very tempting to fall into this pattern of just, like, whining and just, I won't use other synonyms, instead of, like, making strong decisions to live a more beautiful life. So this is what Aquinas says. We have to flee from these distractions. We have to guard against our thoughts. So those are the two first things he says, is you have to basically, like, recognize and deal with the bad things. The next two things he says is you need to do something good. And I love what he has to say here in regards to prayer.

I really love this analogy. He says, you know, when we pray and we want to, like, feed the soul, feed the spirit, he said all of this is not unlike to a fight between two persons, one of whom you desire to win, the other to lose. You must sustain the one and withdraw all support from the other. I love that. First of all, it's just like a weird thought experiment. All right, so there's two guys and they're fighting and you're in charge of feeding them. You're like, weird, but philosophy, let's do this, you know. And this is just what, this is very often what it's like. I remember after my conversion going to confession, you know, and saying, forgive me, Father, I've fallen to this

sin again. It's been three hours, you know. And I remember, God bless the priest, he was very well-intentioned, but his advice wasn't helpful, you know. He'd say, okay, all right, well, have you tried not looking at it, you know? Yep, good, good, that's very good. Try harder, you know. And it seemed to me at the time that telling me to go up against this temptation to act out sexually would be like telling me to get into the ring with a UFC fighter and do your best, you know? Okay, you know? So anyone can expect of you. You've got this.

Whatever the outcome, you know? Okay. Like how many seconds until I'm in the outcome, you know? Okay, like how many seconds until I'm in the fetal position crying? Less than 10, definitely, you know? And that's how it felt to me. But if we begin to block these avenues, right, and then we begin to like engage in beautiful things,

it can and does become easier. So Aquinas says prayer, but I think we should be on guard against a sort of transactional view of prayer. You've met these people. Maybe you are these people. I have definitely, I can fall into this from time to time. You come up with this idea, okay, I'm going to pray a rosary every day, and then I'm not going to look at porn, and I looked at porn, and I know it's because I didn't pray my rosary. It's like, don't blame the Blessed Mother, you know? The point of prayer is not to not sin.

The point of prayer is intimacy with the Father. And so I think rather than looking at it as a sort of transactional thing, learning to grow in prayer such that I can stand before the gaze of the Father, who not only loves me in an obligatory sense, but they tell me likes me, right, that He sees me as I am, and He wants the good for me, and He's not ashamed of me, you know? That sort of prayer, I think, is what Aquinas is talking about. I'm going to bang through these, and then we can delve into them deeper, if you'd like, in the Q&A period. Fourth thing he says is to be engaged in good works, right? So it's not enough just to kind of like

shut down the pipe that the sewer is coming in from. We have to be engaged in good and beautiful things. And this is what leads me to talking about the Aquinas' Five Remedies for Sorrow. And you might be wondering why I would address this in a talk about pornography, and here's why I'm doing it. Because habitual pornography and masturbation use is a means of self-soothing. It is a means of regulating our emotional state, right? So if you're like me, I mean, the internet didn't exist until I was about 16, right? But I first was exposed to porn at the age of eight, and this became my pacifier, if you want, right? So when my dad was mad at me, or when I got bad grades grades or when my friends rejected me

or the girl didn't say she wanted to kind of go out with me, I felt like emotionally turbulent. And what do you do with that? I mean, growing in maturity and formation, we learn how to, in a healthy way, regulate that. But from a young age, if you've been exposed to this poisonous pornography, this becomes the means through which you regulate. And you don't even realize that that's what you're doing. Just like if you are cold, your body will shiver

to regulate your body temperature. If you are hot, your body may begin to perspirate to regulate your body temperature. When we feel emotionally turbulent, that's the only word I've got here, I think, we engage in behaviors to make ourselves feel better, right? And so, one of the things that we need to be looking at is how do I live a beautiful life? And so one of the things that we need to be looking at is how do I live a beautiful life? How do I engage in what is true and good and beautiful so that I am less likely to succumb to acting out in an unhealthy way to help me regulate? Does that make sense? Let's read from Aquinas because I just love these five remedies for sorrow. They're so down to earth. By the way, if you've had trouble reading Aquinas in the past, it's probably because you think he's being more profound than he is. What I've found is I'm often

like, okay, so what does this mean? And then I'm like, okay, if I just read it prima facie, it's like, okay, that's what he means. It's pretty straightforward. And you see that in the first example here. If you're sorrowful, what's what he means. It's pretty straightforward. And you see that in the first example here. If you're sorrowful, what's something you could do? You could do something pleasurable. Pretty bloody good, right? What does he say? Listen to this.

It's lovely. Pleasure is a kind of repose of the appetite in a suitable good, while sorrow arises from something unsuited to the appetite. Consequently, in movements of the appetite, listen, pleasure is to sorrow, what embodies repose is to weariness. Pleasure is to sorrow, what embodies repose is to weariness. Pleasure is to sorrow what embodies repose is to weariness. So if you're walking around exhausted, this is not a good state to exist in. And what you need to do is sleep in order to regulate your body and to feel better and to be more alert, etc.

And so what sleep is to kind of bodily exhaustion, pleasure is to sorrow. But one of the things I think that's really difficult in this day and age is how to engage in pleasurable activities that legitimately rejuvenate me, that are leisurely, not activities through which I dissociate. Tell me if you've had an experience like this, and if you haven't, I'll feel very embarrassed. You're lying on your bed, and you should really be in bed, and you should really be sleeping, but you're not. Instead, you have your laptop cracked open, and you're watching The Office.

But you're not actually watching The Office, because you're looking on Twitter on a different window. So really, okay, you're listening to the office. And while you're scrolling Twitter and listening to the office, you're texting with somebody. This is a great way to become exhausted. This is a great example of engaging in an activity at the end of which I will not be rejuvenated and made whole. I'll be scattered and find myself to be more tired and more dispersed within myself. Do you see, does that resonate with you?

Because I just talk to my podcast microphone usually, so nodding would be helpful. Yeah, good. This last August, as some of you might know, I made a decision to turn off the internet for a month, and thank God I have the ability to do that. I loaded up a bunch of episodes of Pints with Aquinas, this podcast I run, and I had some people behind the scenes helping publish things on social media and YouTube,

and I was able to take the whole month off. I first did this three years ago, and it was one of the most terrifying and exciting experiences of my very boring life, apparently. My family were at a beach house in Florida, and at the end of July, I gave my phone and my computer to my wife, and she changed the passwords because I don't have the self-control to make it a month without breaking the promise I had made to myself. And so I did this, and I remember giving it to her. Like, okay, there you go.

And it was like, okay, what do I do with myself now? Like, this is a really weird experience. I've got a couple of ways of describing it. It's sort of like, oh, here's one. It's going to sound like a tangent, but it's not. I grew up in a very small town in South Australia, very small, like the next town is an hour away, kind of small, you know, through farmland. Recently, I was home, and in the morning, my dad said, Matt, come, come have a look at this,

and so I came to the front door, and I looked through the door, and there was a police raid going on at the bloke's house across the road. There was about three or four police cars, which is not, you know, you don't hear about that in Port Pirie. And so we were just like, what is going on? This has to do with, this must have to do with drugs or something. But it became the thing that preoccupied my day, you know. So we were just like glued to this door, and then we might go and get breakfast, and what happened? Nothing happened. Okay, you know, you go out, you come back, what happened? Nothing. Okay, just get me a chair. Shut up. You get it. I don't have, I need to sit and watch,

and at the end of the day, like, not much had happened, you know? And my entire day, like, the things I could have done, could have been engaged in, the children I could have been attentive to, I wasn't because I was attentive to this panel of glass through which I just allowed myself to become distracted, you know? And I really don't say this to make any of you feel bad. Maybe I do a little bit, but with the goal of getting us to, like, look at that and be like, I need to do something about this. With the goal of getting us to look at that and be like, I need to do something about this. Blaise Pascal once said, and I'm paraphrasing, all of humanity's problems come back to the fact that he does not know how to sit in a dark room silently. There's a litmus test if you want to go see how depressed you are. You can do that tonight. Turn your your phone off turn the light off sit down what do i do nothing just sit can't yeah i know it's bloody hard but what i would try to do this last month

is just to kind of engage in these behaviors after which i felt better you know so like smoking a cigar with a friend on the porch you know going to dollywood with my kids, you know, chatting with my wife, listening to music, and sitting to listen to it, you know, exercising these things, and I found it was beautiful. It was like one of those rotating fans, you know those ones? They spin, and they go very quickly, and if you were to pull the plug out of the wall and slowly watch what happens to it, that felt like what happened to my brain. My brain was just going a mile a minute. You know that experience where you're like, you're going for a walk, but you're preoccupied with what that person may have said on Twitter, or whether someone's texted you or emailed you.

I just don't think this is a way to live, and I'm convinced that phones are evil, and I want to live in a hut somewhere. But if I can't do that, I want to do something that approximates something like that. And so I'm not telling you what to do, except live in a hut and stuff. So we need to be engaging in pleasurable things that actually give us life, after which we feel rejuvenated. The second thing he says, tears and groaning. I love that he felt the need to say groaning, because don't just cry, ugly cry. That's what he's saying, if you get down into the Latin. Listen, tears and groans naturally assuage, which means relieve, okay, naturally relieve sorrow. And this for two reasons. And this sounds like something my mum said to me when I was seven. It's so adorable. Listen. First, because a hurtful thing hurts yet more if we keep it shut up inside, you know.

And it's true, because the soul is more intent on it, whereas if it be allowed to escape, the soul's intention is dispersed, as it were, on outward things so that inward sorrow is lessened. This is why men, burdened with sorrow, make outward show of their sorrow by tears or groans or even by words. Their sorrow is relieved. Secondly, because an action that befits a man according to his actual disposition is always pleasant to him. You know when you go to a party but you're introverted like me so you don't want to be there but you got to pretend? Or when you're in an elevator, Oh, dear Lord. And someone walks in, you're like, okay, what is socially acceptable here? Do I have to say something? Is it a million eyebrow rays that will suffice?

You know, like, hey, how you going? Oh, good. It's exhausting. Right? But when you can just be yourself, you know, like at home or in the bathroom at a party, whatever the case may be, you feel much better because an action that befits a man or woman according to his or her actual disposition is always pleasant to him or her. Now, tears and groans are actually befitting a man who is in

sorrow or pain, and consequently they become pleasant to him. Since then, every pleasure relieves sorrow or pain somewhat. It follows that sorrow is relieved by weeping and groaning. And I think one of the things about staying in this digital matrix is often we don't feel our feelings at all because we're constantly distracting ourselves from ourselves. I'm going to keep going with this. I can't tell from your faces whether it's resonating or not. Maybe I'm just speaking to me. But this idea, right, you're at a party. Someone is walking over to talk to you. You don't like them. You don't wish to speak to them. If you can, what do you do? You walk away from them. Or you go, oh, hey, and you pretend there's someone there.

I don't do that, but those of you who laughed did, and we know who you are. But like, here's a question that might sound weird. What do you do when you're the person you don't like? It's bloody difficult to get away from you, you know? Like when you're like with your thoughts and just you and what do you do then? And I think what I've done in the past and what I'm always tempted to do sometimes is to sort of plunge headlong into a myriad of distractions in order to fragment my internal, my interior life so that I don't have to be with me as it were. But if I would sit with myself, if I would allow time for silence, if I wouldn't

continually distract myself with podcasts and blogs and text messages, then I may be able to begin to discover like how I am and what's going on within me and it's at this point that crying and groaning can be a very beautiful thing. It can get to the root of some of the things that we're dealing with. Many of us are turning to pornography or masturbation for reasons that we're not sure about. We don't actually know when we turn and why we turn. But if we would spend some time in silence, we might get to that. Number three, the sympathy of friends. When one is in pain, it is natural that the sympathy of a friend should afford consolation, whereof Aristotle indicates a twofold reason. First is because

since sorrow has a depressing effect, it is like a weight whereof we strive to unburden ourselves so that when a man sees others sad and by his own sorrow, it seems as though others were bearing the Isn't that lovely? Striving, as it were, to lessen its weight. When you're telling somebody what you're struggling with and what you're dealing with, and they look at you and you see in their eyes that they're being compassionate, it relieves sorrow. I've met a number of ladies who come up to me after a talk like this, and they say, I've never really told anybody that I struggle with pornography, masturbation, or some such. Who do I know who

I can trust? And I always say a very perhaps unhelpful answer. I say, you already know. Like, you already know the answer to that. And when women do confide in another woman, I find that they often come back to me and say, actually, this has happened on multiple occasions. They'll say to me, I told her, and she looked at me and said, what, you too? I thought I was the only one, you know? And that pain and that sorrow was sort of spread. But I love that idea of seeing that in somebody else's eyes. All right. Wherefore, the load of sorrow becomes lighter for him, something like what occurs in the carrying of bodily burdens. The second and better reason is because when a man's friends condole with him, he sees that he is loved by them, and this affords him pleasure, as stated above.

Consequently, since every pleasure, right, relieves sorrow, then the sympathy of friends is going to do that as well. And obviously, accountability, I cannot stress it enough. I've got a little course called strive21.com. It's a 21-day detox porn from course. Oh my gosh, I messed that up. It's a 21-day, I sound like Joe Biden. It's a 21-day detox from porn course, all right? Ah, there it is. Now this is for men, but we're putting out one for women soon. But as of today, we have over 21,100 men going through the course. I don't mean who have completed it. I mean, they're somewhere between one and the 21st day, right? And on the

second or third day, I give this spiel about why you need an accountability partner. And it just blew me away how many men didn't have one. So I just, look, let me just say this today. Like, if you're a man or a woman struggling with porn and I tell you to get an accountability partner and you make an excuse, maybe just like say you don't want to be free of this stuff. Maybe just be honest. Because saying I want to be free but I don't want to confide in somebody and have an accountability relationship is sort of like saying I want to run a marathon but I don't want to eat well or buy sneakers or work out. It's like just don't run the marathon. That's an option. Don't lie to yourself. Just be honest. So I would say, as a

brother in Christ who has benefited greatly from accountability, if you're a man, find a bloody man to confide in. If you're a woman, find a woman to confide in. Could be on campus, right? Could be over a Marco Polo app or a text message with somebody who lives somewhere else, but you know, you've got to have that. It's essential. And don't just share your fools and struggles, but share the ways that you're trying to make your life more wholesome and good so that you'll be less likely to fall into the stuff. Number four, contemplation of the truth. Oh man, so beautiful. I just wrote a book on happiness what thomas aquinas has say about happiness it'll be published with ignatius next year and aquinas is like you know if you're like aquinas can i be happy he's like yeah but not really he's like

because why because we weren't made for anything in this life. We were made for God. And so only the beatific vision will be the fulfillment of all our desire, to quote the title of that excellent book from Ralph Martin, right? We weren't made for sex. I mean, obviously, sex is good, but it's not like you have sex. You're like, okay, now I have reached the fulfillment of all my desire. It doesn't work like that. And so contemplating the truth is the greatest desire. It fulfills the greatest desire, or begins to. I think it was Chesterton who said, and it's very profound, cows chew contentedly in the meadows

while men smoke discontentedly in the bars. You don't see a cow chewing and being pissed pissed off at what his wife said to him or why his friends don't respect him, you know, but like men, you know, like me, you, you know. Listen, the greatest of all pleasures consists in the contemplation of truth. Now every pleasure relieves pain as stated above. Hence the contemplation of truth relieves pain or sorrow, and the more so, the more perfectly one is a lover of wisdom. And he gives these examples of the martyrs who were joyful as they went to their death, to prove his point.

This is the final one, and we'll end on this, and then we'll go to some Q&A. My favorite, sleep and baths. That's just fantastic. Sometimes it's that simple, you know? It's like before you read this passage, you know, if you're struggling with anxiety or like sorrow or depression, you know, and I'm not downplaying the need perhaps for medication

when people are depressed in certain ways, like sorrow or depression, you know, and I'm not downplaying the need perhaps for medication when people are depressed in certain ways, but if you were to get into a time machine and go back to Aquinas, you know, you'd probably expect him to give this like big philosophical answer. You wouldn't expect him to be like, oh mate, have a sleep in a bath, have a hot bath, have a bit of sleep, you wake up feeling a bit better. I don't think coffee was around then but he probably would have said have a bloody coffee have a cry speak to a friend you'd be right as rain well he draws from Augustine in his said contra he says Augustine says I have heard that the bath etymologically had its name from the fact of its driving sadness from the mind.

And further on he says, I slept and woke up again and found my grief not a little relieved. And quotes the words of the hymn of Ambrose, in which it is said that sleep restores the tired limbs of labor, refreshes the weary mind, and banishes sorrow. Sorrow, by reason of its specific nature, is repugnant to the vital movement of the body, and consequently, whatever restores the bodily nature to its due state of vital movement is opposed to sorrow and relieves it. I think this is what you millennial people mean when you say, I need some self-care. I just need to do something for me. Like, that makes me want to throw up on you when you say that to me. But I think if you were to, like, baptize that language, you'd be

saying what Aquinas is saying, right? And I think maybe we in this generation have a lot more need for legitimate self-care than we did in the past because of this perpetual state of anxiety we're in due to our phones. Like, just think about this. When I was a child, up until about the age of 15, if you wanted to get a hold of Matt Fradd, you had three and only three options. You could call the telephone bolted into my kitchen wall. That was always fun, talking with girlfriends. Yeah, and mom, why are you cooking at three in the afternoon, you know? You could write me a letter, or you could come and find me, you know? Like, that was

literally it. Like, we didn't even have an answering machine, you know? Come to my house, I'm not there, maybe go up the shops. Matty, no, not here, right out, that's it. Like, we didn't even have an answering machine, you know? Come to my house, I'm not there. Maybe go up the shops. Matty, no, not here, righto. That's it. And you think today, how many ways can people get a hold of you? Like, if you were to sit down and write those out, you know, like direct message and text message and email and phone voicemail and text, it'd be at least a dozen. And everybody wants you to write back right away. They text you. No, not they, you, you buggers. You text people like you're in the same room as them. And you're, hey, how you going? And if they don't respond, good, thanks. You're like, whoa, it says red. What is that about? Like, this is no way to live. I don't want to respond to people

I don't want to respond to. People don't have a right to your time or my time like that. And so, anyway, because we're in this sort of state of anxiety, we do need this legitimate self-care, to use a sort of secular buzz term. All right. Sorrow, by reason of its specific nature, is repugnant of the vital movement of the body, and consequently, whatever restores the bodily nature to its due state of vital movement is opposed to sorrow and relieves it. Much over, such remedies, from the very fact

that they bring nature back to its normal state, are causes of pleasure, for this is precisely in what pleasure consists, as stated above. Therefore, since every pleasure relieved sorrow sorrow is Relieved by such like bodily remedies. All right. I'm gonna leave it at that and What I'd love to do is have a time of Q&A because I've written books on this topic and it's it's Disappointing to me that I can't say all that I want to say in such a short time So I'd love to go to those places that you would like me to address, whether that be about the neurology of addiction,

whether that be how to speak to your children about the topic of pornography, whether what a healthy accountability partnership looks like, what resources, you know, I might point you to, things like that. I'm happy to take some time to answer now. I believe that we have a couple of microphones, is that correct, that will be brought around? This is being live-streamed. So, you know, discretion. My friend... Sorry. Okay, oh, two lines on both sides.

There we go. Is that okay? Can we do that? Good. Okay. Oh, two lines on both sides. There we go. Is that okay? Can we do that? Good. No. So go over there. Go over there. We'll start taking questions.

If you need to go, that's all right. But... And, yeah, take your mask off as you speak so I can hear you. Thank you. Should a man overcome his addiction to porn before courting a woman? Before courting a woman, yeah. Yeah, should a man or a woman who is looking at pornography overcome looking at pornography before dating or courting somebody?

So I would say yes, but I need to nuance it, because I think that there is a difference to being sort of immersed in pornography, and then on one hand, and then fighting valiantly to be free of it and making great strides. and then fighting valiantly to be free of it and making great strides. Right? So if somebody's looking at porn on a regular basis, like if somebody's looking at pornography like once a month, you know, once every two months,

I think that person should not date. And I think what they should do is spend time becoming a better person so that they can make a better spouse. But I think it's also key that we think of recovery from pornography not so much as a destination we reach after we've done X, Y, and Z, but rather as a daily choice that we make by our actions. So suppose if you were here today and you're like, should I be honest before I propose to my wife? It's like, yes, you should be. But does that mean I'm not going to struggle with the temptation to be

dishonest or even outright lie? No, but you don't want to go down there, so you need to work on that. So I would say it's very important that a man or a woman begin to find significant degree of freedom in that area of their life before pursuing somebody. And I think it's very important to be transparent with your fiancé before getting into marriage. And even when you're in marriage, I think the husband should be transparent with the wife and vice versa. Let me suggest a way that you can ask your boyfriend or girlfriend whether this is something that they struggle with, okay? Because if you say to me, do you look at, no, I don't mean to be whatever, but do you struggle with pornography? And suppose I do. It's very tempting to lie at this point.

Nobody likes looking silly. Nobody wants to be made to feel ashamed. If I'm put on the spot like that, if you're put on the spot like that, you might accidentally say, no, no. I mean, maybe once, but back in, not no, not anymore. And once you've lied, and reflexively, I'm not saying it's like this grave sin, once you've lied, it's very difficult to now say now say, not only do I like a pornography, but I lied to you. It's a lot more difficult. So one thing I would recommend is you could say something like, let's say you're a lady and you want to ask your boyfriend. You could say, hey, I would love to talk about some things tomorrow. Not now, but just stuff about our past sexually and marriage and maybe wounds and things that we've maybe

dealt with in the past would that be okay can we meet up sometime tomorrow prepping somebody then gives that person more of more of more time to sort of think through what they're going to say so that would be a little suggestion all right What do you say to somebody who doesn't want to change, but is doing wrong? Yeah, what do you say to somebody who doesn't want to change? Yeah, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it quit looking at porn. It's like you can't make someone do what they don't want to do. People are very welcome to do whatever it is they want to do. If it's somebody I loved and cared for,

I would make an intentional effort to pray for that person. I might say, you know, when I wake up in the morning, I'm going to offer that first moment for that person's conversion. And I might just say, glory to Jesus Christ, and I ask the grace of Christ to come upon this person. I might offer one Hail Mary. Something small that you can do consistently or perhaps fast in some way for them. I think sharing with them the negative impact that pornography has on our lives.

I wrote a book called The Porn Myth, which is a non-religious response to pro-porn arguments. So if a friend is like, I'm not religious, you can say it doesn't matter. This book says nothing about sin or Jesus or anything like that. It just has all of the data. And if you want to be well, you should want to quit porn. If you're pro-love and pro-science, you should be anti-porn. Someone tweet this. Pro-love, because I don't have Twitter anymore.

Somebody tweets for me. You do it. Pro-love plus pro-science equals anti-porn, right? So if you would like to be well, then this is an option for you. But you also don't have to take this option, which is sad, but... And then finally, I would say,

take a holistic interest in this person's life. Like if it's a friend of yours, no one likes to feel like they're a project for you to fix. We want to be treated holistically, you know, like what do you love, what are you watching, what are you into, what are you doing next summer, you know, and in that friendship you might be able to speak a little more convincingly. Yeah. Hello Matt, I love that last point you made. I think it's a great sort of way to go into what I've been wondering about. It's, of course, a very sensitive issue, all of these things.

It affects everyone very personally. One of the hot topics that's very hard to, like, you don't want to make a project out of somebody, but you really want to help lead them deeper into the faith is talking about modesty. I myself can be very uncharitable. I find that the more traditional among us are guilty of this. And it's hard because you really want to help somebody, but it's so easy to get personal. You know, how do you think, is there any way you think you could recommend

sort of in the same way learning from pornography and the value of people's bodies that we can help to share the beauty of that, but also, yeah. I'll give it a shot. Thank you. We used to go to a Latin mass in San Diego, and there was a priest there at the time, Father Guzmandi.

I remember him saying, if someone is, like, not dressed appropriately for mass, it is not your job to tell that person. Like, I, as the father of this church, will do that. And he did it with such love. I think he, yeah, he did it to a friend of mine with such gentleness and love that she was in no way offended, you know. So, I think that's something to keep in mind in regards to Holy Mass. I forget who said it, but it's the easiest thing in the world is to see faults in other people. The most difficult thing is to see faults in ourselves. And sometimes when we don't want to look at the faults in ourselves, we pay particular attention at seeing the faults in other people because it might make me feel a

little better. That's another thing to consider. Thirdly, I would say that it's precisely because the body is good that porn is bad. So porn isn't bad because it shows the body, if the body were bad. Does that make sense? If the body did not have any intrinsic worth, you couldn't really exploit it. No one talks about exploiting paper clips and ice cream containers. We talk about exploiting the human body because we believe the human person and the human body has worth and dignity, which is precisely why we don't treat it, you know, like a thing, to use Anthony Esalen's words, like an animate provider of pleasure, you know,

like a steak or a keg of beer. Rather, it expresses the profound mystery, which is the human person. I really like Jason Everett's analogy, and it helped me speak about modesty to one of my daughters. My son Liam is here. Today, Liam was in this story. And one day, Liam, you, Avala ran into the lounge room, and someone had dropped off some hand-me-down clothes and we hadn't gone through them yet, you know? And she came in with this like two-piece bathing suit on and she was like two or three and she was just gorgeous, you know? And Liam, you said, you can see her womb. And I think I said, not unless you have x-ray vision but I think and I think what I said was is that good or bad and he said bad I said why is it bad

and you actually said I said is it because her body's bad and you looked shocked you went no it's because it's so good huh sometimes you win one you know like right good right we veil what demands the reverence. And I like how Jason Everett puts it. He talks about the Eucharist, which is the most sacred thing on the face of the planet. We don't sort of litter it about the floor in the church. We put it in a golden box, which we lock. And even then there's a silk veil, which must be spread. And then it's within a golden dish of sorts, you know. So I don't know if that's the beginning of a help.

But that's some of the things I have to say. Thank you so much. What does a healthy accountability partnership look like? Yeah, cool. I should say that immodesty is a serious sin. Thomas Aquinas says that women who dress immodestly is like a woman who digs a hole and waits for a man to fall into it and die.

You can be offended or you can humble yourself and learn from Thomas Aquinas. I imagine he would say the same thing to men. Right? Easy to see the faults in other people. Easy to be offended. Get over yourself and, like, listen to the great saints, I think. It can be something to do.

Okay. Question was what? Wasn't about modesty. That's for sure. It was about an authentic accountability partner. Accountability. I think a good accountability partner... Healthy, healthy.

Healthy could look like this, right? Think of three concentric circles, okay? You with me? I don't have a slide, so you need to pay attention here. Three concentric circles. Outer, middle, and then the center. The center represents how you fall sexually sexually whether that be fornication masturbation pornography etc the middle circle will represent those activities that which you

when you engage in them you're more likely to fall so it might be like seeing a soft core sex scene or and without processing it or it might be having an uncomfortable conversation with my parents or it might be these are going to be very personal to you, and so you'd think about those things, right? The third, an outer circle, you will write in or think about those activities that you need to engage in to have a more beautiful life and to be more balanced sort of emotionally.

So it might be things like, I need to work out three times a week, right? Like, I need to be praying. Like, I need to, and again, this is going to be specific to you, but I might need to take a holy hour. I might need to do this or to do that. I need to have a conversation with a good friend. Like I need to connect with people, you know?

I don't want to spend more than, I don't want to ever watch more than one show at a time. Like whatever that thing is. The reason you come up with this thing, and if you're going to get an accountability partner, I'd say, let's do this together. You then process that with each other, right? So then when you meet, it's not just, hey, I fell. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'll pray for you. Thank you. It's not that, right? Rather, you might meet weekly and say, hey, I know you said you want to be working out. How's that going? I know you said you need to start eating healthy. How's that going? I know you said, like, when you're in

hotel rooms alone, that's difficult for you. Like, has that been a thing? So it's more holistic, to use that word again, than did you fall? Yes, no, great, thanks. So that would be a help. Thank you, by the way. Sorry. So when you were talking about like almost porn is kind of being like a pacifier for a lot of people because of how anxious our society is i think that that's really accurate and then i was

just noticing something um so getting over the sorrows a lot of that was based on pleasures that are inherently good like you know having a cigar or a beer with the buddies yeah um but when we went over like prayer and getting over lust, one of the points was you must resist the flesh by means such as fasting. For fasting, my flesh is weakened. What's the balance between that? Do you think fasting means just deleting social media for a while, getting off the phone? Or if I'm having a porn problem, do you think I should give up tobacco or maybe have a good

time with the buddies to relieve the stress? What's the balance? Excellent question. I'm glad you asked it. Here's my opinion, which is right. If I'm right and that when we turn habitually to pornography masturbation, it's a way to self-soothe, right? Then I would be careful within that state to start stripping away legitimate soothers. So it's like I'm in this terribly addicted state, I'm going to do Exodus 90. Maybe that's a good idea, but I just don't think it would be. Like I'm not going to have hot showers, and I'm going to be praying for like an hour a day, and I'm not going to drink, I'm not going to have sweets.

I think those things are great. I think Exodus 90 is amazing and I would highly recommend y'all consider doing it. But I'm of the opinion that if I'm in that kind of addicted state and we can talk about what that looks like neurologically if anyone wants, then again, to remove myself from that one glass of whiskey with my friend. I'm not talking about going on a bloody bender, you know, like one glass of whiskey with a friend or I'm not talking about going on a bloody bender, you know, like one glass of whiskey with a friend, or watching a show with my wife, or going out and having a glass of wine with her, what I might be doing in taking away those legitimate soothers is I might be further aggravating myself. And in that aggravated state, I think there's a high probability of reaching out for the largest soother and then

hating myself for it. And so my opinion is if, and you can have a different one, but my opinion is if you are in that state, I think fasting from those activities that when you engage in them, they usually lead to porn. Like I don't usually like have a warm shower, you know, and then want to do something like that. I don't hang out with a friend and shower you know and then want to do something like that I don't hang out with a friend and have a have a beer and then wanted it you know I think for people when they're tempted it's like I'm cruising social media like I'm just dissociating and like an hour goes and I'm like what am I doing I'm just clicking from this to this to this to this and then all of a sudden you know I think what are those activities that you're engaging in that

often lead to that and then curb them violently And so that might mean deleting all social media from your phone. My wife put a password on my phone. It basically turns it into a dumb phone. So I have text messages and phones, but I don't have an app store, because she put in a code to block it. It's very simple to do. And then, you know, I can't, you know, things like that. I did that through August for distractions, but someone could do that. So that's some advice I'd offer. Okay. I'm not sure if this question is understandable 100%, but like... Oh, sorry. I think I'm going deaf.'re good keep going okay so um let's say that you find like

a root cause like uh for your struggle with porn like an emotional cause like you were talking about and uh um uh yeah let's say like um uh that root cause is like you have something emotional like that you long for uh for like um affection or community uh brotherhood you know um but like at the same time like uh you're not like very good at uh being social exactly yeah so like you have a hard time accessing that so it's kind of like battling with two problems at once

so my question is should you if you find that root cause should you try to address that first and solve that first, or should you simultaneously try to solve that and the porn issue at once? Excellent. Thank you. That's a really good question. So I think what happens is there are very often emotional states that make us more susceptible to external triggers, right? And so external triggers are those things

which get us down the road to acting out. And they might be obvious things, you know, like, I don't know, you know, Victoria's Secret catalog. I'm not sure what the secret is. It seems pretty bloody apparent to me. But, you know, I don't know, something like that. Or it might be a billboard. It might be a soft course.

These are things, and it could be other things. It could be being alone in a house with a computer. It could be buying a new computer that doesn't even have cover. There are even non-sexual triggers like that. And it sometimes takes the help of a therapist to help us get to what they are. But I think in order for them to really kind of penetrate, we're usually in a negative emotional state, which then makes us, as I say, more susceptible to them, right? And that's sometimes described as, with the acronym BLAST. If I feel bored, lonely, angry, stressed, or tired, then I'm not in a good emotional state, and that needs to be rectified so that I don't

fall. Does that make sense? If I'm anxious, if I feel stupid, if someone's made fun of me, or if I feel like I'm, you know, those sorts of things make us more susceptible. So in your case, I think you were saying, what if somebody knows that one of the things they need is to be more relational with another person, right? But doesn't actually have, I don't know if this is what you were saying, but theoretically, someone may not have the social skills or be afraid of entering into a relationship with others. What does this person do? You know, do they work on one or both? And I think both. And I think the pin, like just the fact that you or someone recognizes that this is something I'm longing for, and it ends up looking at pornography, that's huge. That's like a huge part of the issue.

Just discovering that is like really, really praiseworthy. I would really recommend Jay Stringer's book called Unwanted. He's got this, he says this lovely thing. He says, when we run from our shame, we legitimize its claims against us. And often that's what we do. When we turn to pornography, we shame our heart. He says, well, you should be a little curious. Why am I looking at this type of pornography? Why am I looking at it now? And he says, just those simple questions can reveal so much about an unmet need that needs to be met. And I am a big proponent of therapy to

help us get to the roots of some of those things. Finding a certified sex addiction therapist in this area, and no doubt there's more than enough, I'm sure, to go and speak with would be a great, great idea, I think. than enough, I'm sure, to go and speak with would be a great, great idea, I think. Hi, Matt. Thanks for coming out. Yeah, thanks. So I have a kind of a two-part question. My first part to the question is, is what are some resources that are available to help both men and women sort of leave the pornography industry, you know, and as well as other areas like prostitution, things like that, what are some available resources out there? And my second part is, what would you say to people, not necessarily those within the industry, but those

people that say, well, you know, they got to make a living somehow. So if they don't have any other skills, they got to use their bodies. They just have to do what they have to do so what would you say um to help them realize uh the dignity of the human person so i would recommend checking out the national center on sexual exploitation nicosi n-c-o-s-e.com they are up in dc and they're doing a lot of great work not just in the legal realm, but they'll also be able to put you in touch with groups that are reaching out actively to people who are in the sex industry. My book, The Porn Myth, could you put that up on the screen?

A hundred percent of the royalties from this book go to help sexually trafficked victims in San Diego. I don't make a cent from the book. That's not why I'm shilling it on you, but get it. There's a group called Children of the Immaculate Heart, and they help people who've been sexually trafficked. Children of the Immaculate Heart, they're fantastic. So that would be a group. When somebody says, well, they have to make a living somehow, yeah, that just seems like a false dichotomy, you know? like a false dichotomy, you know. Yeah, somebody has to make a living somehow, that's true,

but engaging in immoral behavior that adds to their sorrow and that of others is not a legitimate means by which, you know, doing something for a living. I once gave a talk in Arlington at the Basilica, and after the talk, this sex worker who had, sex worker, I hate how we use euphemisms, this pornographer or this pornography performer stood up and she started telling me why she disagreed with my talk. And I was actually super jazzed that she came because I thought it would take a lot of courage for somebody to come into an environment like this

and to disagree. So I gave her full range, I was happy for her to share her mind. But one of the things she said was like, I am happy to do this. Like I find this empowering, you know. And my response was, you're wrong to be happy. People can be engaged in behaviors they find empowering and be wrong to find them empowering. I think ladies often understand this. Maybe you've had a friend start dating a guy and she falls head over heels for him, but you know he's not good for her. And all of your friends know he's not good for her. Why? And you say things like, because you're less yourself when you're around him. And she says, but I love him. Like,

I'm happy. And you could imagine in that sense, be like, you're wrong to be. Like, you're around him. And she says, but I love him. Like, I'm happy. And you could imagine in that sense, being like, you're wrong to be. Like, you're wrong to be happy over this. And so I think not to be afraid to say something like that. Hi. So with the accountability partners, should one's accountability partner be someone who's also struggling, or is it better to have someone who's not struggling to hold you accountable so you kind of don't fall

into it together? Yeah, great question. Thank you so much. Should your accountability partner be somebody who is struggling or someone who's not struggling? By the way, I love your hair. It's fantastic. I don't think it matters so much. It's not like you're looking for a guru to guide you over this.

I mean, you could get that from other places. I think you don't want to be sharing too much that you trigger the other person. Like, I think sharing with an accountability partner as much as you might share in confession is perhaps sufficient. Going into what you were watching and how long and what happened may be very inappropriate and something the devil could use, you know. So, I don't think it matters so much. Someone that you trust and who loves you and who is also committed to sobriety. If they're not committed to it, then it might not be worth having them as your accountability partner. But so long as they're committed to sobriety and you trust them, I think that's perhaps good enough. Because they're not meant to be your therapist, they're not meant to be your therapist they're not meant to be a spiritual director you know so that's yeah yeah hi um i just wanted to thank you for um just the impact

that all of your work has had on my life personally um but then i also wanted to ask um for you who has been someone or some people that have had a tremendous impact on your life and maybe what attribute attributes do they have that we can look for um and just mentors or other people to um lead us either with our walk and overcoming pornography or just our spiritual walk so is your question how do we what are the attributes in people to find as mentors like i was specifically just to find as mentors like I was specifically just who has impacted you on your in your faith journey or in my life yeah in your life and what's something they've possessed that you think we can look that's a great question yeah I mean there's several people I wouldn't want to mention them by name because some of you might know them might be awkward but that you know there are

people in my life who they they possess charity, right? And I think this is how we ought to be with human beings, you know? We might see a lot of bad, but there's always good, and that good is like a little flame. And the person who loves you will seek to enkindle that flame and to give it life, not to shame you or to shut it down. And so I think that's the first thing, like somebody who like loves me and wants my good, and someone who is willing to tell me the tough things, even if I don't want to hear it, and someone who's confidential, and someone who I can see has an active prayer life and is loving and is living their vocation well, and who is sort of at peace. I think these would be some qualities that I've looked for in other people.

Yeah. Thank you. You mentioned some of the neurological and biological things that can happen as a result, neurological and biological damage that can happen as a result of porn use. So from that perspective, what does healing look like? Yeah. What's biological and neurological scars remain? So from that perspective, what does healing look like? What's biological and neurological scars remain? If you have somebody who's been using porn for 15 years, say,

what are the prospects for a real healing from that perspective? Yeah, I go into this at length in my book, The Porn Myth. I have a few chapters on this. I just throw that out there if you want some more thoroughness to this and a lot of footnotes. Oh, meticulously footnoted for your plagiarizing convenience if you're writing a paper. So what neuroscientists have discovered since they started looking in the brain that not just behaviors, not just, sorry, substances, but behaviors can affect the brain in a similar way. And so you and I are obviously hearing a lot more about dopamine these days.

And dopamine, in addition to its role in body movement, if you know someone with Parkinson's disease, they're suffering from a deficiency in dopamine, they take a derivative of it to help them recover. Dopamine is that I got to have it now feeling, right? It's what incentivizes us to perform actions that are conducive to our survival. If you're hungry, give me that hamburger. You know, if it's a hot day, give me that drink. This is what dopamine does. It just kind of gives us that drive. That's my understanding. Now, what neuroscientists have discovered is as one engages in pornography or some other behavior, the brain ceases to feel dopamine's effects in the way that

it did previously. Here's an analogy. It's like the addict has reset the pleasure thermostat in their brain. And when you reset a thermostat, the whole system has to work a whole lot harder to create a new normal, which is why when people use pornography with any regularity, they find that they need to watch more of it and more deviant forms of it just to kind of feel even, right? Just to get that same rush that they did previously. There was a study that came out in 2014 the brain on porn go check out yourbrainonporn.com if you're interested my friend gary wilson runs this website uh not a religious guy he said to me that he's left of bernie sanders which is pretty left so he doesn't have a sort of religious dog in the fight he's left of bernie sanders which is pretty bloody left so he

doesn't have a sort of religious dog in the fight he just thinks it's helpful if people have you know the the studies at their disposal but you can see these sort of studies that talk about how brain begins to mess up the brain like the the frontal lobes begin to atrophy when someone's viewing porn and the frontal lobes is sort of managerial center of the brain that help us to weigh appropriate consequences. Like this stuff begins to happen when people view porn. Like this is what's happening in your brain. Now there was a book called The Brain That Changes Itself. It was published by Penguin Books. And in it, the author made this lovely analogy. He says, imagine you're in a forest and there's two paths, right? And this path you've treaded since you were eight, you know, walked down it, and maybe that's the path to end up

looking at pornography. This path to resist, you've barely gone down, because whenever the temptation struck you, you went down that path. This path will be very well worn, this path will be overgrown. Maybe that's where you are right now, neurologically speaking. And so if someone were to say to you, like, all right, just go down there, don't go down there, you're like, all right, but it's a lot easier, you know. But what he says is the brain can change itself, right? Neuroscientists talk more these days about neuroplasticity, the idea that the brain is constantly rewiring based on our behaviors. And so he says over time, as we begin to make our way down this path, that this one will slowly begin to overgrow and this one will begin to wear out.

And so we can get to a point where it's a heck of a lot easier to walk down this path than that path. And that's something that's true in my life right now. That's true of many people that I know. That it doesn't, it's not like this magical cure, but there's this freedom that one experiences over time, and that's because kind of neurological effects in the brain. I'd check out yourbrainonporn.com. I would also check out, there's some non-religious things like nofap.com. My friend Alexander Rhodes runs it. He experienced erectile dysfunction after looking at porn for many years. He quit, regained functioning, and

is against porn. Still an atheist or an agnostic on a good day, but that's where he's at, you know. So I hope that's the beginning of a help. I'm sorry I couldn't answer it more thoroughly. Hey. Hi. So my question has to do with, I've encountered a lot of people who have overcome pornography addiction. Yeah. And then they kind of encounter a second hurdle, which is that they understand the impact of that addiction. They understand how terrible it was, you know, the impact that it has on them and on the relationships that they will be in. And they are paralyzed from forgiving themselves, from forgiving the people who may have led them into that situation, from positions of leadership, from relationships, from asking people out, from feeling worthy of being in good relationships.

And what is your perspective? Are there any practical steps that you would encourage friends, family, or themselves to take in order to feel, to regain that sense of worthiness and to stop that feeling of shame. So is it a sense of worthiness that's preventing them from engaging in relationships and leadership? Is that what you're referring to? Sort of a feeling of shame of knowledge of what you have done and not being able to overcome that shame.

Yeah. Look, let me just say a word about God's mercy because it sounds, it's bloody important, you know? I wish I had mentioned it sooner. Saint Claude de la Colomier was the spiritual director of Saint Margaret Mary Alacoque, who received the visions of the Sacred Heart. And he has this beautiful prayer to God, you know. He says, I glorify you in making known

how good you are towards sinners, and that your mercy prevails over all malice and that no matter how many times we fall or how shamefully or how criminally, he says, a sinner need never be driven to despair of your pardon. It is in vain that your enemy, that is Satan, right, your enemy and mine should set new traps for me daily. He will make me lose everything else for the hope that I have in your enemy, that is Satan, right, your enemy and mine should set new traps for me daily. He will make me lose everything else for the hope that I have in your mercy, right? So I think like resting into the mercy of a Father who loves us and likes us. Like I often don't like me, but I

know that God does, and that gives me great comfort. I often don't like y'all, but apparently God died for y'all, so I need to perhaps get over myself and like y'all, but apparently God died for y'all, so I need to perhaps get over myself and like y'all, you know? Like, I sometimes think I could come up with a convincing syllogism against God's decision to save humanity, right, that begins with big tech or the Kardashians or something. And I just feel like he would disagree with me. I know he would, because he did. And that brings me great comfort. Therese of Lisieux, on her deathbed, she was 24, you've read the story in Story of a Soul, perhaps, where the sisters are gathered around her bed and they say, it's no wonder you're so

confident of heaven. We don't think you've ever committed a mortal sin in your life. And you've got to go read what she says. It's not because of my lack of mortal sin that I go to God with confidence. Even if I had committed the most heinous and shameful sins imaginable, I would still have this confidence. Think about that. So if that's you, if you have committed all the most heinous, she's saying that you should be and have every right to be just as confident as her who hasn't been committing mortal sin. She said, I know what to think of his mercy. I know too well what to think of his mercy. I have seen how he spoke to Magdalene. I've seen how he spoke to the woman caught in adultery, to the woman at the well. And then she says, no, nothing can frighten me.

the well. And then she says, no, nothing can frighten me. If I had committed all of these sins, I would go to my Lord, my heart bruised and broken, and all of that sin, in comparison to His mercy, would be like a drop of water flicked into the raging furnace of His mercy. Glory, right? So, this is what I would want to say, right? I would want to say, we have a lover of our soul who is bent over us with inexpressible tenderness, who has opened up heaven under our feet, who desires all men to be saved, and yet you and I act too often like orphans, as if it were hell that had been opened up under our feet. We do not trust in God like we ought to trust in Him. So that might be a start, right? That I'm not my sin, I'm what God says I am, right? It's interesting in Scripture,

if you contrast the Holy Spirit with Satan, in chapter 12 of Revelation, verse 10, Satan is called the accuser of our brethren, whereas the Holy Spirit is called the paraclete. And I didn't know this, you probably do. I guess paraclete means defense attorney, which is pretty cool. I'm at Steubenville, Scott Hahn, probably either I'm wrong or right, you can tell me, but I'm pretty sure I learned that from him, right? That it means defense attorney, right? So while the enemy accuses, God defends us. So I think coming to that recognition that my dignity is not based in what I have done, but who I am in Him. Saint Mary of Egypt, who I mentioned earlier, but who I am in Him. St. Mary of Egypt, who I mentioned earlier, prostituted herself out for about 17 years. And you might think, well, poor Mary, she must have needed the money for

her kids or something. No, no, that's actually not it. She shared towards the end of her life that she said she would often not charge men because she had, quote, an irrepressible desire to lie in filth. And after an encounter she had with our blessed Lord, she left her worldly life, left her dancing and prostitution, and became a hermit. You know, she's worthy because Christ has made her so. And you and I are because He makes us so yeah yep so okay last two questions you guys have been super patient thanks hi um so I guess you mentioned that thing about like the Aquinas in the hole and like if you dress in modestly and you fall in the hole yeah okay so as a woman or as a Christian I guess in general how do we not participate in the pornographic

culture of like promoting women and like how do we not participate in the pornographic culture of, like, promoting women and, like, how do we avoid that? I don't know if that makes sense. How do we avoid promoting what? Like, I feel like our culture is so focused on, like, sexuality as a whole and, like, I mean, you walk through the mall and you see pictures of naked women and, like, advertisements of, like, women dancing. So, like, how do we, like, I guess, guess like spread the message that of like love and like

not right i think with compassion not with shaming so one thing jason everett and i do if we're ever in an airport together is we'll go into a newspaper store and start turning the porn around because one of the corporal works of mercy is to clothe the naked. And one day while we were doing this, somebody said to Jason, I wasn't there, but it was a different time. Someone said to Jason, why are you doing that? And he looked at him and said, because you won't. Boom. Right. So it comes out of a sense of compassion that we would seek to do this, not out of shaming. So like, if I'm talking to my children about this, it's not like a, look how bad this person is. It's like, isn't it sad that this really beautiful woman doesn't know how good she is? Because if she did know how good she was, she wouldn't dress like

that, she wouldn't act like that, and vice versa for men, you know. I don't know what it is that women find immodest in men. Sometimes I'll work out and take my shirt off while I'm working out because I think I'm morally certain that nobody's tempted by this, right? But I'm open to being corrected, you know? So I think it's for women to stand up and tell us what is immodest. You know, when Cain said, am I my brother's keeper? The answer is, yes, you bloody well are. So posting, like, sexualized images of yourself on Instagram is a sin, and you should stop it immediately, right? And repent of it. And you should dress appropriately, right?

Not because sex is bad, obviously. Not because the body is bad, obviously. But precisely because sex and the body is so good that we ought to engage in this in a way that respects it and reverences it. Yeah, last question. Hi. So would you explain the correlation between pornography and immoral TV shows that have sex in them, like Game of Thrones, for instance. I think a lot of people think that, well, oh, pornography is wrong. I won't engage in that, but it's okay if I sit down and watch a few episodes of Game of Thrones.

Right. It's a good question. I think what we have to do, and it's an excellent question to end on. I should have begun with this. Let's define our terms. Like, what is pornography? Like, what is it that I mean by pornography? Pornography entered the English language in the 19th century, mid-19th century. It comes from two Greek words which mean roughly the writing of the prostitutes, porno or porne, graphpane, like graffiti or calligraphy, right,

the writing of the prostitutes. It was meant from the outset to serve an erotic function, to take the place of a prostitute, you see? Like this is what pornography is. It's meant to take the place of a prostitute. That's what it is. So that's when it gets kind of difficult. Like how do you define pornography? Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart once infamously said when reviewing a film, I think it was called The Lovers, he said, well, I don't know, I don't, he said, I know porn when I see it, and this isn't it, which is terribly unhelpful. So I think a better definition of pornography might be something like this. Pornography is material which depicts erotic behavior

and which is intended to sexually arouse. It's a working definition. I'm open to correction. This is why nude paintings aren't necessarily pornographic, because they don't fit that description. Like, if you've gone to the Sistine Chapel, you probably haven't been sexually aroused by viewing those images. Rather, it kind of brings you into sort of contemplation of the person, and there's always a sort of interiority going on in the person, you know, that I think is squashed or sort of interiority going on in the person, you know, that I think is squashed or, I don't know, short-circuited when one looks at pornography. So, Game of Thrones, for example, if somebody said to me, like, is Game of Thrones pornography,

I would say, no, but I think it contains pornography, right? So, and I think it's a little too easy to say Game of Thrones is pornography. Well, okay, but it also has, apparently, I've never watched it because I'm not trashy, but apparently it has, I'm just joking, but I'm not.

Apparently it has a really compelling storyline, very sophisticated plot, excellent acting, you know. Great. Those are all excellent attributes of a story. I have no doubt that there's much of good in it, but it also contains pornography, and so I think we should avoid it for that reason. I think that the person who especially wants to be free of porn needs to treat that stuff seriously and ask yourself the question,

am I more interested in rationalizing, watching even The Office or some sort of show that glorifies fornication, or am I more interested in living a beautiful life and taking the hard steps to get there? So, I'll just conclude by pointing to those two resources I mentioned a moment ago. The Porn Myth, that book of mine, I'm pretty sure they probably sell it at the shop. Jason Everett and I are working on a book that's coming out soon called Forged, strive21.com. And can I just say how excited I am? Because three or four or five years ago when I was here, I gave a talk on pornography. After the talk, three different women at different occasions came up to me in

secret and said they wanted to start a group for women, but were kind of afraid. And I was like, please do it, please do it. And my understanding is we have a group or a lady that wants to start a group here on campus. So I don't know who you are, but I like you a lot, and you're amazing, and I'm so glad you're doing it. But I'll let Father talk more about that. Finally, I would just say, I know tomorrow you have the availability for confession. If this isn't something you've been like making use of, especially if you've been engaged in serious sins, I would say as a brother who needs to do the same thing, don't walk but run to the sacrament of confession. And when you are there, in fact, if I were you, I would like grab one of those friars by the rope and pull them towards me. I'm sorry, I'd do it before you leave tonight.

And I would make war, actually, you should, I don't know if I would because I'm a wimp, you should make war with your ego. Stand as if you're standing before Christ and accuse yourself so that the blessed Lord can forgive us. There's all those tricks we play in confession. I'll slip that into the third one, or I'll let him know how long it's been since my last confession so he doesn't think this is a big problem. Or I'll go to a different priest

because he's already heard that yesterday. Just to kind of not play those games and to go and to kind of accuse ourselves and to receive the mercy God wants for us. Thank you for your patience. You guys have been awesome. I'm happy to stand here and chat with whoever wants to chat. Bye. Thank you so much, Matt. I don't know about you, but there's something beautiful about hearing Aquinas and Augustine in an Australian accent. So, so beautiful to hear you.

So, let's give him another round of applause. Thank you. Just a few things and then we can certainly let you go on your way. And I know Matt loves question and answers and obviously he's really good at responding. So he'll be here. Also Athanasius and Clem, our student government leaders, will be here. So if you have questions or comments, I know that they want to follow up these presentations with some other practical things which you'll be hearing about in the future.

And Matt mentioned particularly his excitement at one of our young women who is interested in giving support to fellow students. And that is Katie Collin. And Katie's going to be in the back by the ladder. I'll have her stand up by the ladder up there in the back afterwards if you want to speak with her. So you can go and see Katie and talk with her. Ask Matt a question. Ask the guys a question ask the guys a question ask myself a question we're so glad that you're here tonight whether you're here in person or with us I just want to say one last thing one thing I realized that we have in common Matt is we're both fathers and we are fathers and that's a very important call and I want to say to all of you on behalf of the Friars here we are your

fathers and I'm not just saying this we love you we love ministering to you we love being your fathers and we are not ashamed or embarrassed of you we know your struggles probably better than a lot of people do and we do not want you to be discouraged. My mother would always say to me, discouragement is from the evil one. We want you to be encouraged and that's going to take some hard work at times in the spiritual life but be encouraged because the Lord has claimed us and he's with us. Amen? In every struggle. And he has already overcome the struggle. It's just us surrendering to his work in our lives. So I won't give you much more of a homily, but I just want to encourage you

and know that the Friars want to be there for you, sacramentally and in other ways, to help you journey, to help you grow. So let's say a prayer together as we end this night together. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Good and gracious God, each one of us is your children. We are your sons. we are your daughters. And Lord, we absolutely and completely and totally need you. Our very breath, our very life is from you. You have created our beauties. You have created our body and beauty.

You have made us temples of your Holy Spirit. You have claimed us as your own. We thank you, Lord, that you desire to live within and through us. We thank you, Lord, that you desire to fill us with life and holiness. We thank you, Lord, for our humanity that touches your divinity, particularly in the incarnation of your son. We thank you, Lord, for this night and this time together. We ask your great blessing upon Matt. We ask your blessing upon him and all who speak about this issue, Lord, that they would be your voice,

that they would not be discouraged, that they would be your instruments. We open ourselves to you. And as we started this night, we invoke Our Lady to be with us as we pray Hail Mary full of grace Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. The Lord be with you. May Almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. God bless your night.