Pints With Aquinas - 232: Will Many be Saved?

Episode Date: November 17, 2020

Today I'll look at what St. Thomas Aquinas has to say about our Lord's words in Matthew 7:13 regarding the narrow gate. We will look at what he says in the Summa, in his commentary on Matthew, and in the Cantena Aurea. SPONSORS EL Investments: https://www.elinvestments.net/pints  Exodus 90: https://exodus90.com/mattfradd/  Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd  STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/  GIVING Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mattfradd This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer coproducer of the show. LINKS Website: https://pintswithaquinas.com/ Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/ SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd MY BOOKS Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx CONTACT Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to Pints with Aquinas. My name is Matt Fradd. Glad you could be joining us today. We have people here from England and Italy and Brazil and Indonesia and Mississippi, which is cool. It's lovely to have you here, whether you're watching this live or you'll be watching or listening to this later. Great to have you here.

My name is Matt Fradd. This is Pints with Aquinas, and I've got a fantastic show in store for you today. We have a lot to get through. We are going to be asking the question, will many be saved? This, of course, is a question that was posed to our blessed Lord in Luke chapter 13, verse 23. So we'll see what our blessed Lord has to say. And then I want to take a look at what Thomas Aquinas has to say, how he interprets this passage. And I think you'll find that he is illustrative of the mainstream tradition within the Catholic Church. We're going to be taking a look at the Summa Theologiae. We're going to be taking a look at his commentary on St. Matthew's Gospel.

And then we're going to be taking a look at the Cantina Aurea. So three different sources from Thomas Aquinas today. Let's see, we are going to take a look at what is meant by universalism, why it ought to be rejected. I'm also going to respond to the claim that Vatican II now basically teaches universalism or something close to it. And let's see, we're going to look at, man, we got a lot going on. We're going to take a look at 10 quotes from the saints on hell. And then we're going to take some questions from our patrons, including a question on what Thomas Aquinas has to say about the possibility of people being saved outside the church. What he has to say, I think will surprise you. And then just for fun,

as we wrap up today, I want to share with you my top five Catholic podcasts. All right. So that's what we're going to be doing. I think you'll bloody enjoy it. At least that's the hope. Before we take a look at this question, will many be saved? I want to let you know we've got a bunch going on this week. We've got a huge week this week. Okay. So later on in the week, we have a debate, and this is going to be on the Deuterocanonical books of Scripture. Do Protestants have the correct canon of Scripture? This is going to be later on this week. It's going to be a fantastic debate. And if you're not subscribed, you may miss out. So do me a favor, click subscribe, click that bell button, and that way you won't miss it. And of course, later on today, I'll be

interviewing Lila Rose, who is very much known for her advocacy, pro-life advocacy. But today, we're going to be talking about her conversion to Catholicism, which I don't think has been discussed a great deal. So I'm looking forward to that. All right, before we jump into this text, I want to say a big thank you to our sponsor, Exodus 90. I have a link below. Click it, exodus90.com slash Matt Fradd. Basically, it's a 90-day spiritual exercise for men, and it's a proven path to freedom through prayer, asceticism, and fraternity. If you are about ready to take your Christian life seriously and you're a bloke, you want to sign up for this because in 55 days from now, there's going to be thousands of men

all around the world who are going to begin this 90-day journey towards Easter. And so that's why we're saying 55 days, so that we can begin just after the new year on the 4th of January. And I think you'll find it's fantastic. This is a really excellent, excellently produced, well-thought-out course. 90 days. You give up stuff you don't want to give up, like alcohol and snacks between meals. You take on things you don't want to give up, like alcohol and snacks between meals. You

take on things you may not want to take on, like exercise and cold showers. I did it last year, and I found it really beneficial. And it's not something you do in isolation. You do with a group of men. So I would highly recommend that if you're a man and you are kind of tired of the pansy Christianity that's being peddled today, check out exodus90.com slash Matt Fradd. Find a couple of guys to do this with. I think you'll find it'll strengthen your faith and it'll strengthen your brotherhood with those men. exodus90.com slash Matt Fradd. Click the link below and that'll send you over there. All right. Right. Let's look at this. Will many be saved? Will many be saved? Let's look at what it says in Matthew chapter seven, verse 13.

Our blessed Lord says, enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction. And those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life. And those who find it are few. Now, I remember shortly after my conversion, chatting with my youth minister about this verse because it bothered me. And unfortunately, she said to me, well, I mean, this could be taken to mean a number of things. Maybe Jesus is just talking about how to live a good life, you know, and it's difficult to live a good life. It's much easier, you know, to be selfish, to maybe ruin your career, ruin your marriage with different vices. But that doesn't mean he's talking about salvation. And remember at the time

that kind of pleased me, obviously, because I like the idea of myself being saved. I don't know about you. But of course, this is inadequate, insufficient. When we look at Luke's gospel, chapter 13, 23 through 30, what we see is our blessed Lord is responding to a specific question, and he's not responding to the question, how can I live a good life? He's responding to a question, will those who are saved be few? That's what he's responding to. And this is what he says to them. And again, this is a slightly different translation because it comes from a different gospel. But strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door saying, Lord, open to us, then he will answer you. I do not know where you come from. This next bit is really quite daunting. Then you will begin to say, we ate and drank in your presence. You taught in our streets. But he will say, I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil. In that place, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. When you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, you yourselves cast out. And people will come from east and west and from north and south and recline at the table in the kingdom of God. And behold, some are last

who will be first, and some are first who will be last. Now, what I find so frightening about this is that these people protest against our Lord. You know, when he says, I don't know where you come from. I don't know you. And they say to him, we ate and drank in your presence. You taught in our streets. So apparently, being familiar with the Lord, communing with the Lord in a sort of superficial level, I suppose, eating and drinking, being present to him, to his teaching, being present perhaps to the miracles he has performed is not sufficient enough. We need a relationship with Jesus Christ in order to be saved, says our blessed Lord, or else we will be damned. Now, I like how Ralph Martin puts this. Ralph Martin is a prophet, I think. He's an excellent

Catholic theologian and presenter. We're actually going to have him on the show next week. So there's another good reason to subscribe. He just wrote a book called A Church in Crisis, which I am reading, and it is absolutely prophetic. Listen to what he says here. He says, if I were to describe how many of our fellow Catholics view the world today, I would describe it like this. Broad and wide is the way that leads to heaven, and almost everybody is going that way. Narrow is the door that leads to hell. Difficult is the path, and few there are who travel that way. is the path and few there are who travel that way. And then he says, this, as you will recognize, is the exact opposite of what Jesus himself says about the situation of the human race as he sees it. The default situation of the human race is lost, not saved. And Jesus's warnings about this are to be received with the utmost attention.

Now, believe me, I would rather this not be the case. And I think it's very tempting to sort of sit in our armchair and philosophize about this question, will many be saved? And, you know, we might say something like, well, look, I believe that God exists and I believe that he's all loving and all powerful and these sorts of things. And therefore, it, I believe that God exists and I believe that he's all loving and all powerful and these sorts of things. And therefore, it seems to me that God would save all, you know, or at least most of humanity. But I think what we have to be attentive to is not so much our philosophical musings or the philosophical musings of others, however brilliant they may appear. philosophical musings or the philosophical musings of others, however brilliant they may appear, but to the Word of God, to the Word of God. And it's bloody difficult. I don't want to think that I could be damned. I don't like that. But just because I don't like it, it doesn't mean

it won't happen. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it won't happen. So if we want to be followers of Christ, we have to be attentive and obedient to the words that he teaches us. I really like, and we'll talk about universalism in a minute here, but I agree with Ralph Martin. Universalism, what is universalism, by the way? It's the idea, it's a school of Christian theology focused around the doctrine of universal reconciliation. And it's the view that all human beings, and some would even say not just human beings, but angelic spirits, will ultimately be saved and restored to a right relationship with God. Sounds great, doesn't it? Here's what Ralph Martin says. Universalism is the remarkable rebellion of

the human mind against the revealed Word of God and the mainstream tradition of the church. Now, don't misunderstand me. God desires you to be saved, and He desires me to be saved. And how do I know that? Well, I know that because the Word of God says that in 1 Timothy 2. Let's see here. We'll begin at verse 1 through verse 4. St. Paul says, First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

This is good and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. So just like I can't ignore Scripture and conclude that all will be saved, I cannot ignore Scripture and say that God predestines some people to hell because the Scripture says that he desires all to be saved. The Catechism of the Catholic Church in paragraph 1037 says the following, God predestines no one to go to hell. For this, a willful turning away from God. What do we mean? What is that? That's a mortal sin. That's what Catholics mean by a mortal sin. It's not an accidental turning away from him. It's a willful turning away from him. That is necessary,

right, in order for someone to go to hell. And not only a willful turning, but then a persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the church implores the mercy of God who does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance. So I want to be really clear with that. God desires all to be saved,

but will all be saved? The church teaches, no. Our blessed Lord teaches, no. Thomas Aquinas is going to shed some light on this, perhaps. But this idea of universalism is incredibly attractive, and I think we always have to be kind of on our guard to those things that seem particularly attractive. I remember when I was a child being told by certain people that, you know, it didn't really matter, you know, if you went to Holy Mass or as I got older, people would say, well, it doesn't really matter if you save sex or marriage. What matters is that you really love the person. You know, that's all that matters there, you know. And itching ears want to hear this false advice, but I think an obedient

Christian is going to be far more concerned or entirely concerned and devoted to the words of Christ and the apostles, not to the fanciful things people say to us that make us feel good and sort of justify our own weakness and selfishness. I'm including myself here, obviously. All right. Now we've talked a little bit about universalism and why this has to be rejected. David Bentley Hart is an Orthodox theologian, and he wrote a book called That All Shall Be Saved, Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation. Now I'm not going to be offering a refutation of that book here. Maybe we could have a debate if David Bentley Hart is open to that. Not between myself and him, but maybe between Ralph Martin or somebody on his intellectual level, of which I consider myself not to be. sort of summary of the book here. Let's see here. Michael McClemond, forgive me for butchering that, he has some things to say on Hart's book. He says, Hart maintains his thesis not as a possible or probable claim, but as indubitably certain.

not as a possible or probable claim, but as indubitably certain. He has no patience for hopeful universalism, a view often attributed to Karl Barth and Hans Urs von Balthasar, that remains open to salvation for all, but asserts that the matter can't be definitely affirmed or known in advance. Hart's book might be a signal that universalist tentativeness is now out while assertiveness is in. And I really like what he had to say about Hart's book because Hart, you know, I don't know if you remember this, but back in the days of the new atheists, he had some blistering things to say about the new atheists. And so here's what, here we go, I'm going to try to say his name again, Michael McClymond. I think that's probably how you say it now that I think of it. Here's whatists more than a decade ago. Now he is denouncing Dante and everyone else who sustains the age-old tradition of the church. By his reckoning, their view of God should evoke in us only a kind of remote vacuous loathing.

Again, a quote. us only a kind of remote vacuous loathing. Again, a quote. So much for Augustine, Chrysostom, John of Damascus, Aquinas, Pascal, Newman, Chesterton, C.S. Lewis, and Pope Benedict XVI, not to mention innumerable canonized saints of the church, the great majority of ancient Greek, Latin, Coptic, and Syriac writers, and such Protestant luminaries as Luther, Calvin and others, Hart now sounds very much like Richard Dawkins. No less than the aging atheist, Hart finds the 2,000-year Christian tradition not just unbelievable, but repugnant and inhuman. You know, I suppose if we lived in a world sort of cut off from the evil that we experience, this is an interesting thought experiment, but suppose you could

find yourself sitting in an armchair philosophizing about whether or not God would permit evil in the world. And I'm pretty sure you could come up with a good argument as to why he wouldn't. But of course, you know that there is. And I just use that to show that our intuitions about what God would and wouldn't do aren't always correct. In fact, I think a lot of times aren't correct, right? His thoughts are far above our thoughts. His ways are far above our ways. So I think we have to reject this. And I agree with Ralph Martin that we're essentially,

if somebody is a universalist, that they have accepted a different gospel and they need to repent of it and you need to repent of it. And I might need to repent of it if this is something that I've held to. Again, to quote Ralph Martin, universalism is the remarkable rebellion of the human mind against the revealed word of God and the mainstream tradition of the church. Just going to give one example, and we could give so many. If you were to count up our blessed Lord's parables, you'd find that almost half of them have to do with people being sent to hell, right? Of the damned and the blessed. When's the last time you heard a homily on this? 1 Corinthians chapter 6 verse 9. Listen to what Paul says. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not

inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, is that you? deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, is that you? Nor idolaters, is that me? Nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, is that you? Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. They won't. And he says, and such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of God. So if we want to be saved, we have to repent of our sin and avoid it like we would seek to avoid cancer. Okay, let's have a look at what Aquinas has to say about the number of the damned, and he mentions this in the Summa Theologiae. Then we're going to take a look at what he has

to say on the narrow way in his commentary on Matthew's gospel, and then we'll take a look at the Cantina Aurea, and I'll let you know what that is if you're not familiar with it. Okay, here's what he has to say about the number of the damned. Now, where does this come from? This comes from the Summa Theologiae, Prima Pars, question 23, and article 7, article 7, whether the number of the predestined is certain. And he's going to say that it is, but what I want to read for you here is his third objection, and then his response to that objection, all right? And this is where he discusses the number of the damned. Further, the operations of God are more perfect than those of nature, but in the works of nature, good is found in the majority of things,

works of nature, good is found in the majority of things, defect and evil in the minority. That's a fair point. There are birds who perhaps cannot fly. There are people who perhaps cannot see, but this is not the majority of things. And then the objector would say, if then the number of the saved were fixed by God at a certain figure, there would be more saved than lost. fixed by God at a certain figure, there would be more saved than lost. Yet the contrary follows from Matthew chapter 7, verse 13 through 14. For wide is the gate and broad the way that leadeth to destruction. And many there are who go thereat. How narrow is the gate and straight is the way that leadeth to life. And few there are who find it. Therefore, the number of those preordained by God to be saved is not certain. All right. So that that's the objection. Right. We see in nature that some things are evil, but the majority are good.

OK, but then if if if the operations of God are more perfect than those of nature, we should see something even more perfect. Here's the response. The good that is proportionate to the common state of nature is to be found in the majority and is wanting in the minority. The good that exceeds the common state of nature is to be found in the minority and is wanting in the majority. we think of it just on a natural point of view, like men who have common sense. Yeah, okay, most people have that. You might disagree, but Aquinas says, yes, they do. And those who might be insane or mentally unstable are in the minority, he'd say. But he says, we're not talking about the common state of nature here. We're talking about the supernatural. So here's what he says. Thus, it is clear that the majority of men have sufficient knowledge for the guidance of life, and those who have not this knowledge are said to be half-witted or foolish. But they who attain to a profound knowledge of things intelligible are a very

small minority in respect to the rest. Since their eternal happiness, consisting in the vision of God, exceeds the common state of nature, and especially insofar as this is deprived of grace through the corruption of original sin, those who are saved are in the minority. So that's what Aquinas says in keeping with church tradition. Those who are saved are in the minority. Come, Lord Jesus. Give us the grace to repent of our sin and to choose you.

You and only you are the fulfillment of our desires. You are what our heart longs for. Lord, we repent of having made anything other than you our God, and we dethrone it from our heart right now and give you your rightful place. We beg you for the mercy and the grace that we so desperately need. Convict us of our sin and give us your grace that we may repent of it. Help us to see worldly goods for what they are, but you for what you are. Help us to never turn away from you again.

In this especially, says Aquinas, however, appears the mercy of God that he has chosen some for the salvation, from which very many in accordance with the common course and tendency of nature fall short. Okay, let's take a look at what he has to say in this verse, Matthew 7, 13. And this comes from his commentary on the Gospels. And this comes from his commentary on the Gospels. So Christ, our blessed Lord, says, enter by the narrow gate. Lest anyone conclude from the saying, ask and you shall receive, says Aquinas, that man has everything from God without good work. He teaches that this too comes by good works. First, therefore, he presents the admonition.

Secondly, the reason. He says, therefore, enter. That is, try to enter. Augustine explains this in two ways. Christ is the gate. I am the door, he says. This gate is narrow through humility because he humbled himself unto death. Isaiah 10 to the Lord will make a brief word upon the earth.

Therefore, enter by the narrow gate. That is the humility of Christ, for it was fitting for Christ to die and so enter into his glory. Hence, through many tribulations, one must enter the kingdom of God. Secondly, this gate is called charity. We read in Psalm 118.20, This is the gate of the Lord. The righteous shall enter through it. This is made narrow by the divine law, and we must enter through it by observing the laws and precepts. And then Aquinas continues commenting and saying,

He, that is Christ, describes two gates. One is wide, the other narrow. saying, he, that is Christ, describes two gates. One is wide, the other narrow. The wide is described because the devil is wide and the presumption of pride is wide. The gates of hell shall not prevail against it, we read in Matthew 16. This gate is wide because something wide receives all, for it is not such that it can be filled. This gate is also called killing, stealing, and committing adultery. Again, it is a wide way, and this is the working of sin. What do you gain by going to Egypt? Jeremiah 2.18.

Furthermore, this way is spacious because in its beginning it seems wide, but later it is narrowed, for its terminus leads to perdition, because the wages of sin is death. Romans 6.23. And those who enter by it are many. Here he mentions the number because literally the number of fools is infinite. Someone should go tweet that. The number of fools is infinite.

If you tweet that, you're on a platform where that probably is the case. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life. This is contrary to the proceeding. It is narrow because it is restricted by the rule of law, and it is a way contrary to the other way. For the way on your right the Lord knows, but the one on your left are perverse. The ones on your left are perverse, Proverbs 4.27. But one might ask, why the way of charity is narrow? For it seems to be wide. I have led you in the paths of uprightness. When you walk, your step will not be hampered, and if you run, you will not stumble, Proverbs 4.11. But the way of sinners is narrow,

hence we have walked difficult ways, Wisdom 7.5. I answer that there is a way of the flesh and of reason. The way of charity in the way of flesh is narrow. In the way of reason, it is not. And an example of a teacher can be cited. The more he loves a child, the more he restricts his steps. restricts his steps. Hence, the ways of charity in the way of flesh are confined, but not in the way of reason. Tame my flesh with your fear. Psalm 119 and 120. Yeah, that's a really interesting point, hey? Like you think, if you're a parent and you're raising your child, there is a lot more that you warn them not to do. And the greater you love them,

you will, in love and sympathy and kindness, restrict their footsteps, as it were. I think I said to my daughter the other day, yeah, Avila, I said, Avila, like, if I just let you do whatever you want, you wouldn't end up being a good person. You know, if a parent lets their child eat whatever they want, go to bed whatever time that they want, watch however much TV that they want, have a smartphone, watch whatever they want to watch on that smartphone, that person becomes really awful. And it's actually really easy to kind of let a child go poorly. It's really easy to do that. It's actually really difficult to raise your children in virtue.

Why? Because the way that leads to destruction is broad. The way that leads to life is narrow. And we know this as parents. Our blessed Lord says, those who find it, the narrow path, are few. Here, says Aquinas, he mentions how difficult and rare it is to find the road of the Spirit, but the flesh not. And there is a reason for the way of the flesh is pleasure, and this is at hand. But the way of the Spirit is hidden.

Hence Psalm 31 verse 19, Few find it, because it is in concealment. But some do find it and then abandon it. We read in Luke 9, 62, No one putting his hand to the plow and looking back is worthy of the kingdom of God. Okay, that's what Aquinas has to say in his commentary on Matthew's gospel. Now, I'm not sure if you know what the Cantina Aurea is, and I'm not even sure, to be honest, if I'm pronouncing that correctly. Cantina Aurea, it means the golden chain.

What is it? This is a fantastic work of Thomas Aquinas'. It's an anthology of patristic commentary on the Gospels. patristic commentary on the gospels. And so none of the work is his own, except that he kind of collected all of these sayings from the church fathers on these four gospels. And the work has over 80 church fathers in it. Isn't that amazing? So he goes through the four gospels, right? He's like Matthew 1, 1. Here's what it says. Here's what these different church fathers had to say on that. Honestly, if you were looking for a fantastic gift for your priest, you should get him this, the Cantina Aurea, because you get to see what all of these church fathers had to say,

Eastern and Western fathers alike. In fact, I'm quite certain that he quotes, for those Orthodox who are critical of Thomas Aquinas, he actually quotes Chrysostom more than Augustine in this work. All right, let's look at three of the church fathers that he cites on this very passage. Okay, he begins with Augustine. Here's what Augustine said about this passage. The Lord has warned us above to have a heart single and pure with which to seek God. But as this belongs to but a few, he begins to speak of finding out wisdom for the searching out and concealment whereof there has been formed through all the foregoing, such as an eye as may discern the narrow way and straight

gate. Hence he adds, enter ye at the straight gate. Here's another authority he cites. Though love be wide, yet it leads men from the earth through difficult and steep ways. It is sufficiently difficult to cast aside all other things and to love one only, not to aim at prosperity, not to fear adversity. He does quote Chrysostom, but that quote is a little too long to read here. So the final one I'll quote comes from St. Jerome. He says, attend to the words, for they have an special force. Many walk in the broad way, few find the narrow way. For the broad way needs no search and is not found, but presents itself readily. Isn't that excellent? Like you don't have to go looking for the way of destruction. You just wake up and there it is.

It is the way of all who go astray. Whereas the narrow way, neither do all find, nor when they have found, do they straight away walk therein. How's that, man? We can find the narrow way. I mean, our Lord talks about this so often. I believe 2 Peter 2 talks about this, right? Those who know the way of righteousness and then abandon it. Christ talks about those seeds that are thrown on rocky soil, which begin to grow, but they don't have the depth and the sun scorches them, you know? So yeah, that's really cool.

Okay, my brothers and sisters, what I want to do is talk about the Second Vatican Council, because sometimes people will say that, well, the Second Vatican Council has changed all this. You know, we've really had a development of our understanding on who gets saved and who doesn't. People will say, in fact, the Second Vatican Council even says that those who don't know Christ can be saved. Those who are not in the church can be saved. So I think it's important that we address this. But before we do, I need to have a break and have a sip of coffee. I hope you're doing bloody well. Cheers.

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below if you're interested okay what did the did the Second Vatican Council have to say about people being saved and outside the church? Well, in Lumen Gentium 16, we do read, let's see here. Let me see if I can find it. Yeah. let me see if i can find it yeah here's that here's the verse that's often cited by those who want to say that the majority uh will be saved okay or that you know maybe maybe all will be saved i'm not saying the second vatican council teaches that it does not but some people may use it and manipulate it and say look all will be saved hopeful universalism this sort of thing um okay those who through no fault of their own

who do not know the gospel of Christ or his church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience, those too may achieve eternal salvation. Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who without any fault of theirs

have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is considered by the church to be a preparation for the gospel and is given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life. Usually when people cite Lumen Gentium, that's where they stop. So all of that is 100% correct. I mean, you could imagine somebody being raised in Nazi Germany by Christian parents, right, who, you know, maybe said they were Christians, but were for the gassing of Jews and homosexuals and gypsies and these sorts of things. And if that's your only experience of

Christianity, one could see the possibility of someone rejecting this and still being saved, right? Provided all of these things were in order. Or you could imagine someone being raised, I don't know, just think of some thought experiment. Imagine if you're raised in a cult and you have no access to the outside world and they claim to be Christians, but they teach bizarre doctrines that are foreign to the gospel. And maybe you die as a young person, maybe like 13, and you just reject what they're teaching you. and they claim to be Christians, but they teach bizarre doctrines that are foreign to the gospel. And maybe you die as a young person, maybe like 13, and you just reject what they're teaching you. Is that person definitely damned? No.

And this is what the church teaches and has always taught. And we're actually going to look at what Aquinas has to say about those outside of the church being saved. But my point is, this is usually what people cite. They don't then cite the next part, and I'm going to read that for you in a moment. But point out here, I'd like to point out here too, that in this paragraph 16 of Lumen Gentium, Light to the Gentiles, put out by the Second Vatican Council, it says here,

Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who without any fault of theirs. This assumes that it is possible to deny the gospel and be at fault. So, there you are. Let's read the next bit. Okay. But very often, deceived by the evil one, men have become vain in their reasonings, have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the world rather than the Creator. And this is a direct reference to Romans chapter 1. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair. Else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.

So you can see people just giving into chaos, becoming nihilistic, abandoning the path of reason and charity. Hence, to procure the glory of God and the salvation of all these, the church, mindful of the Lord's command, preach the gospel to every creature, takes zealous care to foster the missions. Okay. So that's really important. Yes, it's possible that those outside the fold be saved, but very often, think of that, very often, deceived by the evil one, men have become vain in their reasonings. So those who point to the Second Vatican Council to say that all will be saved or that a majority will be saved are not interpreting it the way the church has thought about this issue since the beginning.

Okay, here's what I want to do before we take some questions. I want to have a look at 10 quotations from the saints on hell. Now, why is it important that we look at this? Now, it's certainly true that people can fall into a sort of scrupulosity where they feel like God the Father is out to get them, right? That he's waiting for them to slip up so he can pounce. This is not at all how God is depicted in the New Testament or in the Old Testament. God desires us to be saved, right? He sent his son. I mean, think about that, to die so that you could have the chance of salvation. That's how much he loves you. He became incarnate, sweat, bled, died because he loves you that much. And even though it's a cliche, it's true.

It's a true cliche. Cliches are sometimes true. If you were the only person who ever existed and you fell into sin, God still would have sent his son for you. He knows you personally. He knows you by name. He loves you. He yearns for you. He's tried through Christ to save you.

You just have to accept that salvation. But it's important that we not deceive ourselves. If Christ is going to talk about hell, then we should talk about hell. If Peter and Paul, if the apostles are talking about how important it is that we repent and follow Christ, and that if we don't, we could be damned, we also have to talk about these things. So I want to share with you 10 quotes from the saints that, honest to God, terrify me. The first comes from Saint Bernard,

and he agrees with me, apparently. I am filled with fear and trembling, and all my bones are shaken at the thought of that unhappy country of the damned. Saint Catherine of Siena says, I saw the torments of hell. No words can describe them. Had poor mortals the faintest idea of them, they would suffer a thousand deaths rather than undergo the least of their torments during a single day. St. Alphonsus de Liguri says, Poor Judas.

Now, of course, St. Alphonsus de Liguri is writing when the 17th century. So he says, Poor Judas, above 1700 years have elapsed since he has been in hell. And this hell is still only beginning. So Christianity is true. It's possible that you die today and that 1,700 years in hell hasn't even begun yet because hell will be eternal.

St. Anthony Claret says, St. Anthony Claret says, The natural fire that we see during this life has great power to burn and torment, yet this is not even a shadow of the fires of hell. St. Cyprian of Carthage says, The wicked bodies of the condemned shall simmer and blaze in those living fires. St. Ephraim of Syria, who I love, says, Alas, of what kind is that place of wailing and of gnashing of teeth? living fires. Saint Ephraim of Syria, who I love, says, be sent into outer darkness of what kind of angels placed over these torments who pitiless and frightful punish by casting in there while at the same time the reproach most grievously then shall those already in the midst of the torments cry out with pleading voices and there

will be no one to speak for them to the lord and they shall not be heard. St. Ignatius of Loyola says, let us fancy that we see hell and imagine what is worst. To behold, a horrible cavern full of black flames, sulfur, devils, dragons, fire, swords, arrows, and innumerable damned who roar in despair. Imagine the worst you can and then say, oh, this is nothing compared to hell. Saint Justin Martyr says, no more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil, even for a short time,

knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments. Saint Lidwine says, alas, I could not bear the sight of them. How could I, as the mere noise of these despairing yells caused me an unbearable horror? an unbearable horror. Finally, from Saint Wolfrand, do not neglect the grace that is offered to you. The God who offers the sinner pardon doesn't promise it tomorrow. This is scary stuff, but once you recognize the reality of hell, you begin to see the importance of Christ's death on the cross. Right? Like if hell isn't really an option for you, you know, maybe you're willing to consign some people there.

Like, yeah, Hitler and some of those people. But if it's not really an option for you, you will not look upon the cross of Christ with tremendous love and affection. You won't adore him the way you ought to adore him. Thank him the way you ought to thank him. adore him the way you ought to adore him. Thank him the way you ought to thank him. Praise him the way you ought to praise him. But if when you look at that cross, you see that there is the narrow gate that leads to life and he has opened that gate for you

by his death and resurrection because he loves you and he loves me, all of a sudden we begin to take the Christian life seriously. You might even say that we begin to take the Christian life as the saints took the Christian life. We realize this is not a game. This is not a game. Our actions have eternal consequences. And so it's so imperative that you and I, my dear brothers and sisters, repent of our sin. We beg the Lord with tears and groaning, if we can, to have mercy on us. And we stop justifying our sins. And we repent of them manfully.

Yeah. And we beg our blessed Lord to give us the grace to live a virtuous life. Glory to Jesus Christ. All right. I want to take some questions from our amazing patrons. Glory to Jesus Christ. This one comes from David DeShiel. Thank you for being a patron, David. David asks, what do you think about sexual or inappropriate humor? Is there any context in which it is totally fine? Or should a wholly immature person avoid it entirely?

So I think that a wholly immature person should avoid it entirely. We should avoid sexual humor in a way that disparages sex. I mean, things about sex can be funny. You could imagine a husband and a wife who have saved themselves to their wedding night and then are trying to understand how all of this works. You could see there being like a beauty to the awkwardness that might result from that you know um but to speak about sexual things in a debased way i think is never never okay and this comes from somebody who does it right who falls into it right who has watched the office and repeats you know different lines right and then yeah i find it funny but that doesn't mean I should. We read in James, well, James 3 talks about the tongue, right?

And how it's a small member, like a little flame that can create a forest fire. We also read, but among you, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality or of any kind of impurity or of greed because these are improper for God's holy people. So I think if we want to be true disciples, we want to seek to eradicate that. And when we fall into it, to be humble, you know, and to repent. But that would be my answer to that. Eric Clark says, In your oratory area in your home in is your oratory area in your home a space where guests often come if so is it and by the way i have this big icon wall maybe i'll

show you guys what that looks like here so you can see it for yourselves a beautiful icon wall um i like it a lot you know that's that's just me though um we'll stand there morning and night and pray different prayers you know um let me let me show you what this looks like real quick here so here we had father gregory pine come over to our house and uh it was it was great he got to to celebrate the Holy Mass for us. So that's an image of my icon wall. I know you can't really see it very well, but that is in our main living room.

And so we have like a little table there with candles and the Holy Scriptures and prayer books. And then we have these beautiful icons. And so, yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah. So it is in the main area. And he says, if so, is that ever weird or awkward for non-Catholics or non-Christian guests? I want to do something simple, crucifix and some icons, but with a wife who finds it a little strange and friends who would likely feel I'm worshipping the images, it makes me hesitate. Your thoughts? the images, it makes me hesitate. Your thoughts? Yeah. So the other night on Halloween, we had a friend come over. She was one of our neighbors and we were chatting for a while. We had a great

night. The kids went trick-or-treating and then we decided to go in and pray. And I invited her to come in and pray, even though I knew she wasn't a Catholic and she was a Protestant Christian. And I knew it would be kind of weird, right? Not just because of the icons, but because we chant and light candles and this sort of thing. But I also think it happens to be really beautiful. And I was, you know, I said, hey, you're totally welcome. We'd love to have you if you want to, you know, you might find it a bit weird, but, you know, we love our blessed Lord and we want to praise him. So you're welcome to join us, you know. Now to your question about won't people think that you're worshiping icons? Well, that could be a great conversation starter.

I don't think you want to be in the habit of hiding your Catholicism from people. I don't think you want to be in the habit of hiding crucifixes and things because you're afraid of scandalizing guests. I don't think that's a good place to be. So if I were you, I would tell your wife that, thanks, but you're going to disagree with her and you're going to put up the crucifix and the icons. Now, you could overdo it, right? I understand.

I have a very understanding wife who allowed me to do this that i could understand you know someone going really over the top it's like okay this is just like a bit impractical you know um if you wanted to do like a full-on thing you know maybe find a closet or something like that but you know to meet halfway and at least i think every catholic home ought to have a crucifix you know some religious icons in it so yeah that would be my thought glory to jesus christ okay uh carrie nevins asks my girlfriend and i are considering doing a devotional together recommend anything specific that you two have enjoyed well i'm gonna recommend something that's a little self-interested i hope you don't mind um me and father gregory pine who you saw in that previous photo, wrote a book together. It's called Marian Consecration

with Aquinas, a nine-day path for growing closer to the mother of God. We'd love it if you wanted to get it. It's quick. I mean, I think it's really cool if you want to do like a 33-day consecration or something like that. But a nine-day can be a lot easier, especially if you've never done it before. And there's meditations from Aquinas every day. We go through his meditation on the Ave Maria and other days talk about why we can pray to saints. And we look at what Aquinas has to say. And he's got some beautiful things that many people aren't aware of in his academic sermons on the Blessed Mother. So we get into that. I think it's simple and it's something you could check out.

Otherwise, I think Father Michael Gately has a book called 33 Days to Morning Glory. That would be something else you might consider doing. Okay. Let's see. Can Catholics still have assurance of salvation without committing the sin of presumption? Asks Seth Kuntinho. Forgive me. Yes, we can have an assurance of our salvation uh in the sixth session at the council of trent which was on justification um our you know the

council fathers said that we cannot have an absolute assurance of our salvation but it didn't kind of right uh eliminate the possibility of having a moral assurance of our salvation. And this is something that Ludwig Ott talks about in The Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma. And so one can have a moral assurance of one's salvation. That is to say, yeah, like I'm morally certain if I were to die now, I'd be saved. You can imagine somebody who just went to confession, or if we're receiving the Eucharist, presumably we have a moral certainty of our salvation. Otherwise, we wouldn't be receiving it.

Now, I would say in response to that, I think two things are possible, right? One is we could be fooling ourselves. And two, we may not persevere in the grace of God until the end. And that's why we can't have an absolute assurance of our salvation. You and I have perhaps met people who think they're really fantastic, but maybe people around them think, you know, you're not terribly well-formed actually, and you're kind of manipulative and, you know,

and maybe you're wrong, but you know, you can at least see the possibility that someone could think they're right before God and be wrong, right? So the reason we can't have an absolute assurance of our salvation, I would say, is number one, we could be fooling ourselves. And number two, we may not persevere in the grace of God, but we can have a moral certainty of our salvation, right? So like I have a moral certainty

of my salvation. Christ is the mountain, right? The assurance I have, sorry, I'm talking about mountains and Christ, I'm getting confused, is because of the death and resurrection of Christ, I'm talking about mountains and Christ. I'm getting confused. Is because of the death and resurrection of Christ. Right? I am standing on a mountain. Right?

Christ is my salvation. Now, I could choose to dive off that mountain. I could choose to commit mortal sin. But I don't want to choose that. And so I am morally certain of my salvation. And I think as a Catholic, you ought to be. Joshua Smith, thank you for being a patron, Joshua, says, What does Aquinas have to say about salvation outside the Catholic Church and why? This has been a perennial confusing topic for me because of how emotionally loaded it is and because of how many conflicting viewpoints there seem to be in the church.

Well, Joshua, first of all, we should be more interested in what the church has to say than what Thomas Aquinas has to say. we should be more interested in what the church has to say than what Thomas Aquinas has to say. In other words, if Thomas Aquinas teaches something that is in conflict with what the Catholic church teaches, you should go with the Catholic church. And that's actually what Thomas Aquinas would tell you to do. And what he actually wrote saying, if there's anything I've written here that is in error, it's because of my own ignorance, right? And all to be submitted to the holy Catholic church. So when you say there's a lot of confusion about this, well, no, actually, there's not, and we just read what Lumen Gentium says,

and so that could be enough. But let's actually take a look at what Thomas Aquinas has to say. Let's see here. This is from the Summa Theologiae, the Tertiopas, that means the third part, question 68, article 2. And here he's asking the question, like, can someone be saved if they haven't been baptized? Right. And so like baptism is the doorway into the Catholic Church. Like if you haven't been baptized, Catholic, like you're not a Catholic.

Right. That's how it's understood, to put it in strict terms. Here's what Aquinas says. The sacrament of baptism may be wanting to someone in two ways. OK, first, both in reality and in desire. Secondly, and I'm kind of paraphrasing here, it may be wanting in reality, but not in desire. here, it may be wanting in reality, but not in desire. So of the first group, he says this, as is the case, and this has to do with both in reality and desire, of those who neither are baptized nor wish to be baptized, which clearly indicates contempt of the sacrament in regard to those who have the use of the free will of free will consequently those to whom baptism is wanting thus right in this way like you know that god wants you to be baptized in order to be

saved and you reject it okay for those people uh you cannot be saved you cannot obtain salvation since neither sacramentally nor mentally are they incorporated in Christ, through whom alone can salvation be obtained. But Aquinas is going to say, just like he said there, someone is not, in this case, sacramentally or mentally incorporated into Christ. So he's going to make a distinction here and say, but it is possible, I guess, to be mentally incorporated into the body of Christ, though not sacramentally. So he's saying people who have not been baptized, he's about to say those who have not been baptized, still have the possibility of salvation.

He says this. Secondly, the sacrament of baptism may be wanting to anyone in reality, but not in desire. For instance, when a man wishes to be baptized, but by some ill chance he is forestalled by death before receiving baptism. but by some ill chance he is forestalled by death before receiving baptism. And such a man can obtain salvation without being actually baptized, on account of his desire for baptism, which desire is the outcome of faith that worketh by charity. Where is that?

He doesn't say. I think Galatians 5? 5 maybe? I don't know. Look it up. Correct me if you want. Whereby God, whose power is not tied to visible sacraments, sanctifies man inwardly. Hence, Ambrose says of Valentinian, who died while yet a catechumen, I lost him whom I was to regenerate, but he did not lose the grace he prayed for. Right. So that's interesting, right? Because I think sometimes we are skeptical. People can be skeptical of anything that came, so that's interesting, right? Because I think sometimes we are skeptical, people can be skeptical of anything

that came sort of post-Vatican II, right? So you've heard people say things like, you know, God is not bound to the sacraments. Like we're bound to the sacraments, but God is not bound to the sacraments and God can save us through ways known only to him. And sometimes you tend to think, okay, like is this one of these like false teachings?

Well, no, it's not, first of all, because the catechism of the Catholic church teaches it. But secondly, like Aquinas just said that same thing, right? Whereby God, whose power is not tied to visible sacraments, can sanctify man inwardly. So there you go. Can someone who is not Catholic be saved? Yes.

Now here he's talking about the baptism of desire. And so in the church we talk about baptism of water, baptism of blood, baptism of desire. And baptism of blood having to do with martyrdom, baptism of water having to do with actual water baptism, baptism of desire being. Now here Aquinas says someone knows about baptism and cannot receive it. But the church, as we've read in Lumen Gentium, would say that it's possible even for those who don't have an explicit desire for baptism, but they might have an implicit desire for baptism. That is to say, suppose you don't know that you have to be baptized, but if you did know you would be baptized, well, it's still possible that you will be saved. Doesn't mean that you will, but there is still that possibility. So hopefully that answers your question. All right. Let's see if there are any in the chat right now who have questions.

I'd be happy to take a couple. We've got a lot of people here who are saying lots of things. We have well over 500 people here. So it's lovely, lovely to have you all. Let's see. Fizzbuzz, what a great name that is. Says, men are made to worship. It's going to be either him or one of his creations.

So it better be the former. Hmm. I would agree with that. Okay. It does look like we have many questions. We have a lot of comments, but no questions in the chat. So what I want to do now just for fun is to share with you five of my favorite Catholic podcasts. And these are ones that I actually listen to,

because I know that there are a lot of great podcasts out there and maybe you listen to them. But as far as the podcasts I listen to, what are they? And I'm going to rank these in order of what I actually listen to the most. So I am actually going to be discriminating here. I would say that my favorite Catholic podcast is Catching Foxes. Now, maybe I'm contradicting myself here in the sense that Catching Foxes is definitely not a squeaky clean podcast. They definitely use some crude humor.

They definitely swear. But the thing I love about Luke and Gomer who run Catching Foxes is that these guys are, ah, they're just deeply honest. You know, it's really easy to put on a show, to run a podcast, to try and sound super holy and not actually like speak from the depths of your heart.

And of course, whenever you speak from the depths of your heart, you know, you run the risk of saying things that you might regret. But to me, it's very sincere. And I think they've done a really good job at talking about the scandals in the church, talking about the confusion of the laity that they're experiencing due to the scandals. And they're just fun, good men who love their wives and love their kids. So Catching Foxes, I'd say go check that out, Catching Foxes, if you haven't. Let me know what you think of it.

Let's see. I'll be honest, the second Catholic podcast i would listen to which isn't explicitly catholic but is run by a catholic would be the matt walsh show matt walsh is a friend of mine he works for the daily wire i probably might listen to one of his episodes every couple of weeks um but what i love about matt is he's not at all afraid to say what is controversial. He says things how they appear to him. And, you know, I'm not sure what you think. Maybe sometimes you think he goes too far. Maybe sometimes you think he doesn't go far enough. But I think he's really honest in sort of assessing the moral degradation of our culture, especially as it pertains to things like fornication and

a transgenderism issue and these sorts of things like fornication and a transgenderism issue and these sorts of things. I think he does a pretty courageous job. And I just love his sort of world-weary, cynical humor, but that's just me. Thirdly, I would say, if I was to look at these and say, what do I listen to the most? I would say Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World. If you haven't checked this out, I would recommend that you go check it out jimmy aiken is a brilliant guy and his podcasts are so tight there's no rambling there's no banter you know i think he scripts out his his his podcasts and they're just so intriguing like he's done episodes on you know the end times and people today who might be saying

that they are a prophet of the end times and what to think about them he does these deep dive investigations he also looks at you know like what to think about fatima uh the the alleged apparitions of our blessed mother and fatima uh he he even looks at like the mystery of sleep and what sleep is he's just a fascinating guy so and he talks about UFO sightings, I think JFK, the death of JFK and the mystery that surrounded that. So he just looks at these different mysteries from the lens of faith and reason. So check that out. Next, I would say I listened to the Council of Trent by my friend Trent Horn. And I'm going to say it again. We have a debate, which Trent will be a part of coming up this week on the Deuterocanonical Scriptures.

Do Protestant Christians have the correct Old Testament or are they missing some books? And Trent will be arguing that, yes, in fact, they are missing some books. But Trent, of course, runs the excellent show, The Council of Trent Podcast. I really enjoy it. He's one of the most brilliant people I've ever met. And I think he does a really good and fair job at assessing different questions. And then finally, I'm going to look this up for you guys so you can see it. Because in my estimation, and this is not so much a podcast, it's more of a video show. But in my estimation, this guy does not get the sort of

recognition that he should get. Some of you might already know what I'm talking about. How to be Christian. Go check out. I can't believe he only has 6.4 thousand subscribers because this guy's videos way, way better than mine. Or at least like really well planned out. He takes James White to task a great deal on his false understanding of John Six.

And he does so in a really kind of playful way. So I would really recommend going and checking out How to Be Christian. So those would be my five favorite Catholic podcasts in that these are the ones that I kind of encounter and listen to the most. All right. Before you go, I want to tell you about a program or a course that i've created it's called strive 21 it's a 21 day detox from porn course we have over 24 000 men in the course go check it out because it's 100 free and you can be as anonymous as you want i uh you know give you different reflections each day you get a video that comes to you by email and you get to join all these men so it's not like a solo event. You're actually chatting with men in the description. So please check it out. Strive21.com. Strive21.com. If you're a man who struggles with

porn or lust in any way, please check it out. Strive21.com. And of course, I've also recommended checking out Exodus 90. I'll put those links below. All right. Later on today, we have an interview with Lila Rose, who is known, as I say, for her pro-life advocacy. But today we're going to be talking about her conversion. So I hope you can be there for that. We'll definitely be taking questions from YouTubers. So hopefully you can come and be a part of that. Please subscribe. Click that bell button because it really helps the channel.

And as I say, once we reach 100,000 subscribers and get a few more patrons, I've got a pretty cool announcement to make. So I'm looking forward to that. God bless you and I hope you have a lovely day. Thanks.