Pints With Aquinas - 32: Why do I need to confess my sins to a priest?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, before we get into today's show, I wanted to recommend a podcast, especially if you're a lady. My wife, Cameron Fradd, totally awesome, has started a podcast called Among the Lilies. And the premise of it is this. She says this is a podcast for women who are tired of pretending and are ready to be real. She has fantastic interviews that are really insightful and I think will bless many women tremendously. So download it today. Okay, onto the show. Welcome to Pints with Aquinas episode 32. I'm Matt Fradd. If you could sit down with

Starting point is 00:00:38 St. Thomas Aquinas over a pint of beer and ask him any one question, what would it be? In today's episode, we'll ask St. Thomas the question, do I have to confess my sins to a priest? Welcome back to Pints with Aquinas. This is the show where you and I pull up a barstool next to the angelic doctor to discuss theology and philosophy. And today we are going to be discussing quite a popular question, one that's asked from many of our non-Catholic brethren, our Protestant brothers and sisters. And that is, do I have to go to a priest to confess my sins? Now, they might not ask it in that way, since the obvious answer they think is no, but they might challenge you, they might challenge me and say, why on earth do you think that you have to go to some man to confess your sins when you can just confess directly to God?

Starting point is 00:01:47 man to confess your sins when you can just confess directly to God. And so that's what we want to be discussing today. So we'll talk about what St. Thomas has to say. We'll read a bit from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. And then I want to end by talking, by sharing rather, by talking, by sharing rather, some quotations from the early church fathers, from the first couple of hundred years of the church's birth. And I want to share those because I know we have Protestant listeners. And I'm so, listen, I mean this, I'm so appreciative for you. There is so much that you and I can learn from St. Thomas Aquinas. One doesn't need to be a Catholic to benefit from Aquinas' wisdom. I want to just congratulate you for having such an open mind and listening to this podcast. So, I hope that you'll bear with me. Maybe your mind has been made up from the outset and you

Starting point is 00:02:41 think that this is just some sort of Catholic superstition, you know, that Catholics invented to sort of, I don't know, make their flock feel bad for their sins, or so that the priest could know all the ins and outs of their parishioners' secret lives, or something. But I hope you'll bear with me, and I think what you'll see is, not only is there good support for the sacrament of confession in sacred scripture, but also it has been something that has been taught and practiced from the very beginning of the church. I want to do a bit of a shout out to someone who rated Pints with Aquinas recently. He is a Lutheran pastor. So, if you're listening, thank you very much for rating. It really made my day. And I thought I would share for everyone listening what he had to say. He said, I am a confessional Lutheran pastor, and I've found this podcast highly enjoyable so far.

Starting point is 00:03:45 Hmm. So far. Until the episode on confession. Okay. We'll see. Hopefully he won't think that. He said, I'm caught up to episode 17. So I decided it's time to obey Matt's exhortations to rate this. This has quickly become one of my favorite podcasts for the meaty philosophy and theology in a manageable scale and style. I was familiar only in passing with the writings and theology of Aquinas. So I appreciate greatly Matt's accessible and enthusiastic invitation to his work. Keep up the good work, Matt. I'd love to buy you a pint sometime. That's very kind of you. Thank you for rating and thank you for listening. And if you're listening, maybe you can shoot me a message over Twitter or something and let me know what you think. And if anyone has a strong objection, I should say, you don't only have to send me a message,

Starting point is 00:04:35 you could email me, matt at pints with Aquinas dot com. Now, I should say, I don't have the time to respond to everybody who writes to that email, but please know that I read every single email I get. But since I also want to be a good father and a good husband, I don't always have time to respond to everybody. But if you have a strong objection to this topic, to the things I'm about to say, maybe if you're a Protestant or something, feel free to send me your arguments. And if you do, I'll honor you by reading what you say on the air. I think it's important that we have an open and honest discussion about these things. All right. So why don't we begin with a simple question? What is the sacrament of confession? Well, we believe that someone's talking to me through Voxer. Oh dear. I should probably turn this off. If you're not familiar, that is an app where it's

Starting point is 00:05:23 kind of like a walkie-talkie. All right. Sorry. Sorry. Coming back to my happy place. What is the sacrament of confession? Well, there are three different names given to this sacrament, penance, reconciliation, confession. These are usually the titles given to it. And it is one of the seven sacraments that Jesus Christ gave to his church. In the Catechism, paragraph 1422, it states, those who approach the sacrament of penance obtain pardon from God's mercy for the offense committed against him and are at the same time reconciled with the church, which they have wounded by their sins and which by charity, by example, and by prayer labors for their conversion. Let's read a little bit more here. It's called the sacrament of conversion because it makes sacramentally present Jesus's call to conversion. The first step in returning to

Starting point is 00:06:25 the Father from whom one has strayed by sin. And before we look at what Thomas says, we should probably cite that one verse in which Jesus makes it pretty clear that his ministers, his apostles, and the successors of the apostles by extension, are able to forgive sins. And this is from John chapter 20, verses 21 through 23. This is after Jesus Christ rose from the dead and stood before his apostles. And it says, again, Jesus said, peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, I am sending you. And with that, he breathed on them.

Starting point is 00:07:13 All right, let's pause a moment here and look at two important things. First, he says, as the Father has sent me, I am sending you. As the Father sent Christ, so Christ sends the apostles. Well, why did God send the Son? Why did God the Father send the Son? Well, to reconcile the world to God, you know, through the forgiveness of their sins. And so, now, He's sending the apostles to do just that. And next, in verse 22, we see, and with that, he breathed on them. Why is that important? It's important because there's one other place in sacred scripture where God breathes on someone, and that's when he breathes the life

Starting point is 00:07:59 into Adam, yeah? So, we know something really important is taking place here. And then Christ says this, receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven. I don't know how you can make it any clearer here that Christ is giving the apostles. I mean, I'm just going to reiterate what he said. I mean, you can't make it any clearer. The power, the authority to forgive sins.

Starting point is 00:08:48 Now, here's something interesting if if i say to you um all right i will give you the power to forgive sins or not to forgive sins then that presupposes for you to make that decision you need to know what those sins are doesn't it i mean if i'm going to decide whether to forgive sins or not to forgive sins uh part of what I need to know is what those sins are in order to make that decision. I'm not sure why you would want to get around that verse. It's just as clear in the Greek as it is in the English. And that's what Christ says. And so that's what Catholics believe now and have believed always. But maybe the objection is, okay, but can't God forgive me just if I'm praying in my room to God?

Starting point is 00:09:40 And of course, that's not really the right question to ask. The answer to that question is, yes, of course, you know, it's God, he can do whatever he wants. But to me, that's sort of like asking, you know, my mother has cancer. Do I need to send her to a doctor? Can't I just pray in the privacy of my own room that she would be healed? Can't God do that without the agency of a doctor? I think the answer is yes. Yes, God can heal your mother of cancer without a doctor. And yet, it is usually by the means of a doctor that people are healed of cancer. by the means of a doctor, that people are healed of cancer. And so, while it's possible that God could forgive you and me of our sins without the agency of a priest, nevertheless, the way He has set it up is that we might be forgiven personally by the apostles and the successor of the apostles, by the apostles and the successor of the apostles, namely the bishops and by extension, the priests. I'm not sure if you know this or not, but every single Catholic bishop, in theory,

Starting point is 00:10:59 can trace his lineage back to one of the 12 apostles. Pretty cool, huh? So, let's see what Thomas has to say on this topic and this is in uh let's see this is in the supplemental section of the summa theologiae question eight it has to do for the minister of confession you know and so Article 1 is whether it's necessary to confess to a priest. Here's what Aquinas says. The absolution of the penitent, that is the one repenting, okay, for the sake of which he makes his confession is imparted by none but priests to whom the keys are entrusted. Therefore, confession should be made to a priest. This keys is referring to Matthew 16, 18, where Christ says to Peter, you are Peter on this rock. I build my church. The gates of hell

Starting point is 00:12:00 will not overcome it. I give you the keys to the kingdom. Whatever you bind on earth, we bound in heaven. Whatever you lose on earth, we lose in heaven. Okay. He says, further, confession is foreshadowed in the raising of the dead Lazarus to life. Now, our Lord commanded none but the disciples to lose Lazarus. And that's in John 11, 44. Therefore, confession should be made to a priest. And Aquinas says, I answer that the grace which is given in the sacraments descends from the head to the members. Wherefore, he alone who exercises a ministry over Christ's true body is a minister of the sacraments, wherein grace is given. And this belongs to a priest alone who can consecrate the Eucharist. Therefore, since grace is given in the sacrament of penance, none but a priest is the minister of the sacrament. And consequently, sacramental confession,

Starting point is 00:13:01 which should be made to a minister of the it, I just want to quickly say something. Because we may have Protestant listeners or maybe even non-religious listeners who are thinking about the Christian faith. And maybe you're thinking, well, I'm not a Catholic, you know, and, you know, I have committed some really serious sins in my life, but I have asked God forgiveness. Are you telling me that I'm not forgiven? And the only way I can be forgiven is by going to a priest. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. If one has committed grave sin, serious sin, mortal sin, and confesses to God, not out of fear of punishment, but out of a love for God, okay, and says to themselves, in effect, I don't want to be doing this anymore, and I'm sorry, God, that I've sinned. Yes, God can forgive your sin. But the ordinary means by

Starting point is 00:14:12 which he intended us to be reconciled to himself after having committed grave sin is the sacrament of confession. We addressed baptism recently. If you haven't listened to that episode, go back and listen to it. The same thing could be said here. You know, baptism is necessary for our salvation, right? It says that in numerous ways within the scriptures, and the church has always taught that from the very beginning. So, we could say, well, are you saying, since baptism is necessary, that only those who are baptized are saved? No, I'm not making that claim. Neither is the Church. In fact, the Catechism of the Catholic Church makes it clear that baptism is required by those who have heard the call to baptism. I mean, that's got to be a prerequisite, right? I mean, if no one has told you about the sacrament of baptism, for example,

Starting point is 00:15:13 you aren't sinning by not receiving it since you don't know about it. And so, God can regenerate the soul since even though we are bound by the sacraments, God is not. Even though we are bound by the sacraments, God is not bound by the sacraments. And so, yeah, God might regenerate the soul, but suppose somebody becomes aware that baptism is necessary, then they ought to be baptized. Okay. So, I just wanted to clear that up. If you're a Protestant, I'm not saying none of your sins have been forgiven necessarily because you haven't been to confession. That's not what I'm claiming. Okay, let's look at one objection that I find is often given and Aquinas brings it up here and see what he says. You know, sometimes people will say, you know, what about in James 5.16? We read, confess your sins to one another. Okay? So, that's all we're supposed to do. There's no mention of a priest. Therefore, it's not necessary to confess to a priest.

Starting point is 00:16:12 Here's what Aquinas says in response to that. He says that St. James speaks on the presupposition of the divine institutions. And since confession had already been prescribed by God to be made to a priest, in that he empowered them in the person of the apostles to forgive sins, as related in John chapter 20 verse 23, we must take the words of James as conveying an admonishment to confess to priests. In other words, we have to understand that the Bible, listen to this now, the Bible is not an instruction manual for a church still in I believe that is a quotation from Scott Hahn. He said, again,

Starting point is 00:17:28 the Bible is not an instruction manual for a church in shrink wrap. Instead, the Bible presupposes the church already in existence. That is crucial that we understand that, that the New Testament was written and canonized by the Catholic church. Okay? And so, not everything is listed in any one exhortation from any of the apostles. It's not like everything needs to be said in every individual book or in every individual exhortation. Rather, those who were being written to were aware, James, who was writing, the people who he was writing to were aware of the sacrament of confession, just as they were aware of the sacrament of baptism, just as they were aware of the sacrament of the Eucharist. Along these same lines, someone might object and say to me, you know, Matt, I just listened to your podcast on baptism and you said in that episode that in an emergency situation, anyone can baptize. It doesn't need to be a priest,

Starting point is 00:18:34 so long, you said, Matt, right? You said, so long as someone baptizes, you know, with the proper matter and form and with the intention to do what the church does, that it's valid. So, the same thing should apply to confession. Here is what Aquinas would say to that. He would say, and he does say, this is reply to objection two, quote, baptism is a sacrament of greater necessity than penance as regards confession and absolution, because sometimes baptism cannot be omitted without loss of eternal salvation, as in the case of children who have not come to the use of reason. Whereas this cannot be said of confession and absolution, which regard none but adults in whom contrition, together with the purpose of confessing and the desire of absolution suffices to deliver them from everlasting death. Consequently, there is no

Starting point is 00:19:33 parity between baptism and confession. A lot was sort of said there, and I'm not going to get into all of it, but let's just focus in on one thing. He says, whereas this, let's back up a bit. So, baptism cannot be omitted without loss of eternal salvation. So, what he means by that, of course, is that Christ says baptism is necessary for salvation. And again, if you're not convinced, go back and listen to that podcast I recorded on baptism a few back. And maybe that still won't convince you, but I at least tried to make the case for it there. But he says that isn't the case when it comes to confession as much. Why? He says, well, whereas this cannot be said of confession and absolution, which regard none but adults in whom contrition, together with the purpose of confessing and the

Starting point is 00:20:27 desire for absolution, suffices to deliver them from everlasting death. And this is what I mentioned a moment ago. You know, if I am in a car wreck, maybe I'm coming back from, let's say, doing something really, really naughty, really, really evil. Let's not trivialize it. Very evil. And I get into a car wreck and I freely chose to separate myself from God in doing that sin. And now I'm dying on the pavement. And I know that I'm going to die before a priest can come and hear my confession. Well, if I confess my sins to God out of, again, out of charity, not out of fear of punishment, but out of a recognition that what I did was wrong and that I want to be reconciled with God and that I desire absolution. Aquinas says, and the church has always taught, that this suffices

Starting point is 00:21:17 to deliver me from everlasting death. Now, interestingly enough, this is just a little tidbit of information, if I were to survive that said car accident, I would still then be required to approach the sacrament of confession. Okay. All right, let's wrap up here with some quotations from the early church fathers. You know, I think everyone who proclaims the gospel should do so with fear and trembling. And I am very aware that what I have just shared in this podcast, I may not have said well, I may not have argued well, I may not have said articulately enough or convincingly or lovingly enough. And so, for that, Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner. But if you're listening to me and you're thinking, okay, Matt, you certainly

Starting point is 00:22:11 haven't made the case, I want to share with you some quotations from the early church fathers, because like I said, in regards to my episode on baptism, you should care what the earliest Christians taught, shouldn't you? I mean, if we can look at a verse like John, you know, chapter 20, verse 23, if I can look at that and say, look, it's pretty clear. He's saying that he's giving the power to the apostles and their successors to forgive or retain sins. I think you could at least say, even if you're going to disagree with me, you could at least say, okay, I see how you come to that interpretation, even though I think you're wrong. Okay. All right. Good. That's something. Well, why don't we then look what the Christians thought? Because if you don't think confession is a thing or is legitimate, and I do,

Starting point is 00:23:07 well, shouldn't the opinion of the earliest Christians come into our consideration as we decide what the truth is? And I think indeed it should. But before we take a look at those three quotations from the early church, a quick break. My name is Gomer, and I'm the co-host of Catching Foxes. Foxes. F-F-F-Foxes. Catching Foxes. Foxes.

Starting point is 00:23:30 I would like to tell you about something more important than my podcast. What? Pints with Aquinas. Pint, pint, p-p-p-p-pints with Aquinas. Matt Fradd actually wrote a book on 50-plus deep thoughts from the angelic doctor. Pints with Aquinas. Here's the deal. Beer is easily lovable, but medieval monastic philosophers, they can be quite intimidating.

Starting point is 00:23:53 Yet in this short pithy book, and I don't use that word often. In fact, I never use the word pithy, but I'm going to use it here and you're going to agree with me. Matt Fradd made the greatest mind in the history of the church as easily accessible as your favorite beer. You'll laugh. You'll cry. Well, you won't cry. But you'll laugh, and you'll discover that this old-school philosopher's wisdom is just as relevant today as it was back then. So do yourself a favor.

Starting point is 00:24:16 Get a copy of this enlightening, pithy little book from Amazon right now. And when it arrives, pour yourself a frothy pint and dig in. You'll be glad you did. Okay, welcome back. Let's take a look at these three quotations from the early church on the sacrament of confession. The first isn't from an individual author. It's actually from a work known as the Didache, which means teaching. It's also sometimes referred to as the teaching of the 12 apostles. Now, what is this? It's anonymous and it's brief, just a short work, and it's dated by most modern scholars to the first century, okay? Usually around AD 70. Here's what it says. Confess your sins in church and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. On the Lord's day, gather together, break bread, and give thanks Here's another quotation from Ignatius of Antioch.

Starting point is 00:25:39 And this is from his letter to the Philadelphians. And this we think was written around AD 110. Okay. He says, for as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall in the exercise of penance return into the unity of the church. These two shall belong to God that they may live according to Jesus Christ. For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness. If they turn in penitence to the unity of God and to communion with the bishop.

Starting point is 00:26:29 Okay. Here's a third one from Irenaeus in his work against heresies around the year AD 189. He says, the Gnostic disciples of Marcus have deluded many women. Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this. And in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses. All right, I said three, but I want to give four. Let's see here. I've got a

Starting point is 00:27:13 bunch in front of me. We could certainly give many more and I'll tell you what I'll do. In the description of this podcast, I'll put around 10 of them, okay? Here's one from John Chrysostom, who was writing on the priesthood. We think he wrote this around AD of them. Okay. Here's one from John Chrysostom, who was writing on the priesthood. This is, we think he wrote this around AD 387. He said, priests have received a power which God has given neither to angels nor to archangels. It was said to them, whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever you shall loose shall be loosed. Temporal rulers have indeed the power of binding, but they can only bind the body. Priests, in contrast, can bind with a bond which pertains to the soul itself and transcends the very heavens. Did God not give them all the

Starting point is 00:28:01 powers of heaven? Whose sins you shall forgive, he says, they are forgiven them. Whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. What greater power is there than this? The Father has given all judgment to the Son, and now I see the Son placing all this power in the hands of men. Matthew 10, 40, John chapter 20, verse 21 through 23. They are raised to this dignity as if they were already gathered up to heaven. So, I hope this has been a blessing to you. We didn't get into the ins and outs of confession, such as whether or not a priest can ever divulge what he hears in confession. The answer to that, of course, is absolutely not. Aquinas talks about that elsewhere.

Starting point is 00:28:47 But I think we've said enough today, and I hope you've enjoyed the episode. Do me a favor, would you please? I would love it if you would consider rating Pints with Aquinas. I know we have thousands of listeners. We get about 30,000 downloads a month, and we only have like 300 and something reviews. So a bit of Catholic guilt here since we're talking about confession. If you would, please rate Pints with Aquinas. I know it's only a few clicks for you, but it means a lot to me, and it means that others will be able

Starting point is 00:29:18 to see it more easily when they type things into iTunes, like God and Jesus and confession and St. Thomas Aquinas. Until next week, to carry you And I would give my whole life to carry you

Pints With Aquinas - 32: Why do I need to confess my sins to a priest?

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