Pints With Aquinas - 37: If God knows what I'm going to do, how can I be truly free?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, before we get into today's show, I want to let you know about my book, Pints with Aquinas, 50 plus deep thoughts from the angelic doctor. You can get that online right now, $9.95 from Amazon. In getting that, you'll be able to begin reading Aquinas for yourself in a way that won't overwhelm you. And you'll also get to support this show. Pints with Aquinas, 50 plus deep thoughts from the angelic doctor. Get it from Amazon today. On with the show. Welcome to Pints with Aquinas, episode 37.

Starting point is 00:00:31 I'm Matt Fradd. If you could sit down with St. Thomas Aquinas over a pint of beer and ask him any one question, what would it be? In today's episode, we'll ask St. Thomas the question, if God knows everything, including future events, how can I truly be free? Good to have you here at Pints with Aquinas. Thanks for joining us. This is the 27th of December. So next time you'll be hearing from me will be next year. Crazy, eh?

Starting point is 00:01:16 Remember when you were a kid and a year lasted for like five years, or at least it felt like that, and then you get older, and then a year feels like three months. It's been crazy. I live in Georgia. It's getting really cold here. But anyway, wherever you are, I hope you're doing well. I wanted to address this question because someone sent me a message over Instagram. I think it was having to do with God's omniscience and our free will. So in this conversation, what I want us to do is to talk a little bit about free will,

Starting point is 00:01:47 what Thomas Aquinas has to say about free will. Are we actually free? Talk about God's omniscience, what that is, and whether or not there's a contradiction there between God's omniscience and our free will. And then I'll also, since we're on the topic of omniscience, raise another question. It's often said that God is a silly concept for this reason, okay? If God is omniscient, if he knows everything, then he would know what it's like to be afraid. But if he knows what it's like to be afraid, then he's not all powerful, right? So, doesn't that disprove the existence of God? We'll touch upon that as well. Now, as with every episode we do here at Pints with Aquinas, on that as well. Now, as with every episode we do here at Pints with Aquinas, entire books have been written on these topics. Entire, maybe libraries have been written or could be written.

Starting point is 00:02:33 So as like always, right, we're going to just be skimming the surface of these topics. But, you know, I've been pleased to hear many people of you, many of you who have written into me, you've said that you can't listen to this podcast while working out or while driving. You have to be sitting down to kind of think through these things. So, I'm happy to hear that. I'm happy that even though it's, you know, a basic introduction to St. Thomas Aquinas and different things having to do with the Catholic faith, that it's engaging our mind, right? Our blessed Lord told us to love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, strength, and mind. And so, that's where I hope this podcast is filling a need. All right, let's get underway here

Starting point is 00:03:18 and see what Aquinas has to say, first of all, regarding free will. Okay, let's see here. So, this bit is from the Summa Theologiae, first part, question 83, article 1. Does man have free will? All right, let me just read you Aquinas' main answer. He refers to Sirach, All right. Let me just read you Aquinas' main answer. He refers to Sirach chapter 15 verse 14. He says, it is written, God made man from the beginning and left him in the hand of his own counsel and a gloss. When Aquinas talks about a gloss, he's referring to things that may have been written in the margins of sacred scripture, right? So, different sort of commentaries. And so, by own counsel, it means free will. So, that's what Sirach's referring to. And Aquinas says, man has free will. Otherwise,

Starting point is 00:04:18 counsels, exhortations, commands, prohibitions, rewards, and punishments would be in vain. In order to make this evident, we must observe that some things act without judgment, as a stone moves downwards, and in like manner all things which lack knowledge. And some act from judgment, but not a free judgment, as brute animals. For the sheep, seeing the wolf, judges it a thing to be shunned, from a natural and not a free judgment, because it judges not from reason, but from natural instinct. And the same thing is to be said of any judgment of brute animals, but man acts from judgment, because by his apprehensive power, he judges that something should be avoided or sought. But because this judgment in the case of some particular act is

Starting point is 00:05:15 not from a natural instinct, but from some act of comparison in the reason, therefore he acts from free judgment and retains the power of being inclined to various things. For reason in contingent matters may follow opposite courses, as we see in dialectic syllogisms and rhetorical arguments. Now, particular operations are contingent and therefore in such matters the judgment of reason may follow opposite courses, and is not determinate to one. And for as much as man is rational, is it necessary that man have free will? Now, I know that there are many sort of reductionistic arguments for men not having free will. Some say that we can explain man without recourse to free will. And this is a lot like the argument Aquinas sets himself,

Starting point is 00:06:14 which we deal with in episode 30. Sometimes people will try to explain away God by saying, well, natural science explains everything. We have no need of God. Okay. We talked about that in episode 30. And with free will, it's as if we're saying natural science can account for everything in man. We have no need for free will. Now we're not going to try, I'm not going to attempt a robust defense of free will here. But I like what Aquinas says, right? He says, man has free will and we all take it for granted that he does. We act as if he does, right? Because if we did not have free will, counsels, exhortation, commands, prohibition, rewards, and punishments would be in vain. All right. If we don't have free will, what are we? Well, we're sort of like moist robots,

Starting point is 00:07:08 What are we? Well, we're sort of like moist robots, moist machines, as it were. You don't counsel machines. If you go into the lobby of your work and try and buy a bag of chips from the vending machine and the vending machine doesn't give it to you, you don't shame it. You don't call it a thief. You kick it, all right? That's what you do. Now, do you see how dangerous this idea is? If man doesn't have free will, there's no point exhorting him, commanding him. You kick him. You treat him just like he is, a moist robot to get what it is you want. Likewise, rewards and punishments would be in vain, Aquinas says. Okay, so all of this just goes to show what the church has always taught, and that is that man is free. Okay, so again, what does it mean to be free? I'd like to read from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1731. It says, freedom is the power rooted in reason and will to act or not to act, to do this or that,

Starting point is 00:08:28 and so to perform deliberate actions on one's own responsibility. By free will, one shapes one's life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness. It attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude. Okay, so freedom is not the same thing as license. Okay, you hear some people may say, well, I look at porn, I should be free to do that. The thing is though, when people look at porn a lot, it's precisely their freedom that's being eroded. Here's another quote from the Catechism here. This is from 1733. It says, the more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and to do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to what? The slavery of sin. Okay, so man is free. But here's where the conflict comes in. And

Starting point is 00:09:38 some people will say, well, okay, well, man's free. That means he can choose to act or not to act, to do this or not to do this. But listen, God already knows it, doesn't he? And if God already knows what you will do, say, 10 years from now on February the 2nd, how on earth can you say in any meaningful sense that you were free to do it? I mean, if God already knows what you're going to do, then you couldn't do otherwise, right? Well, this is not true, and here's why. Actually, tell you what, before I explain, I want to share what Aquinas has to say on God's knowledge of contingent things, all right? And then we'll get into explaining it here. Okay, so this is from the first part of the Sympathia Logia, question 14, article 13, okay? Whether the knowledge of God is of future contingent things. Let's read what he says and then show why God's knowledge does not mean the elimination of man's free will.

Starting point is 00:10:59 He says, God knows all things, not only things actual, but also things possible to him and creature. And since some of these are future contingent to us, it follows that God knows future contingent things. In evidence of this, we must consider that a contingent thing can be considered in two ways. First, in itself, insofar as it is now in act, and in this sense, it is not considered as future but as present. Neither is it considered as contingent, as having reference to one of two terms, but as determined to one, and on account of this, it can be infallibly the object of certain knowledge. For instance, to the sense of sight, as when I see that Socrates is sitting down. In another way, a contingent thing can be considered as it is in its cause,

Starting point is 00:12:02 and in this way it is considered as future, and as a contingent thing not yet determined to one, for as much as a contingent cause has relation to opposite things. And in this sense, a contingent thing is not subject to any certain knowledge. Hence, whoever knows a contingent effect in its cause only has merely a conjectural knowledge of it. Now, God knows all contingent things, not only as they are in their causes, but also as each one of them is actually in itself. And although contingent things become actual successively, nevertheless, God knows contingent things, not successively, as they are in their own being, as we do, but simultaneously. The reason is because His knowledge is measured by eternity, as is also His being. And eternity being simultaneously whole comprises all time, and eternity being simultaneously whole comprises all time, as was said above.

Starting point is 00:13:12 Hence, all things that are in time are present to God from eternity, not only because He has the types of things present within Him, as some say, but because His glance is carried from eternity over all things as they are in their present. Here's a word I haven't heard before. Presentially, right? In the present. Hence, it is manifest that contingent things are infallibly known by God in as much as they are subject to the divine sight in their presentially. There's that word again. Yet they are future contingent things in relation to their own causes. Now, that is a lot.

Starting point is 00:13:52 But I think the nugget, right, what we want to get out of this is, whereas things happen sort of sequentially for us, right? Things aren't seen or known sequentially for God. If we think of the act of thinking, right, as acting discursively, where we come to know one piece of truth, and then from that truth, we recognize another piece of truth, and from that, we recognize another. In that sense, we can say God doesn't think. God doesn't think. He knows everything at once. God is outside of time. And what is happening in 1457, okay, on again, February the 2nd, and what's going to happen, should the Lord not return by then, in 2021 on February the 2nd. Both, and this very present moment now, all is present to Him. Okay? So, here's why God's omniscience

Starting point is 00:14:58 doesn't eradicate our free will. God's foreknowledge is sort of like the way you and I remember things. You remember something from your childhood, perhaps something your father did, or your sister did, or your boss did. Now, you're remembering those things. Now, you your remembering them isn't causing them, is it? Well, God's knowledge is sort of like that. Let's say on February the 2nd next year, you decide to go to the store and buy a can of Coke because you want diabetes or something. Okay, well, then God will know that. Okay, and God knows that now. But suppose next year, you walk into the shop and say, no, you know what, I'm going to choose a healthy option and get a bottle of water. Okay, you are free to do that, but God would have known that from all eternity and not that you would have gotten a Coke. So, we don't surprise God by our choices. He already knows what we are

Starting point is 00:16:15 going to choose or not choose, but his knowledge of that doesn't determine our actions, we still have that free will. Now, I wonder if this makes sense. We might say that our choices, or I'm going to get into deep water here, so I might be careful. I might want to be careful, but it's as if our choices are logically prior, but God's knowledge is chronologically prior to that knowledge or those choices. That may have made no sense at all and maybe I just made some kind of a radical statement, you can let me know. But that's the basic point we want to get across. Does that make sense? I hope it does. God is omniscient, what that means is he knows everything that has happened, that has happened, everything that is happening, everything that will happen, okay? And that knowledge of what will happen no more determines our actions than the way we remember things that

Starting point is 00:17:18 happened determine those actions, okay? If we were to do X had let's say we have a choice between x y and z we are free to choose between x y and z and whichever we choose it is that that god knew from all eternity his knowledge doesn't um do away with our free will or make it such that we had no choice in the matter. All right. So that's enough to say on that. But back to this idea of omniscience. If God is omniscient, if he knows everything, then shouldn't he know what it's like to say, be a sinner? Shouldn't he know what it's like to be afraid? Shouldn't he know what it's like to repent? Shouldn't he know what it's like for him to worship God? All right. This is often an objection brought up by atheists, usually online. I don't read many sort of sophisticated atheists taking this approach, but it is something that we encounter. So, this is actually rather easy to respond to, so we won't spend as much time as you might think we would on this issue.

Starting point is 00:18:27 But let's just take one of those examples, okay? Okay, if God's omniscient, if he knows everything that is happening, has happened, will happen, then that's a contradiction, right? God is an incoherent concept, they will say. then that's a contradiction, right? God is an incoherent concept, they will say. Because if he's omniscient, right? If he knows everything, then he knows what it's like to be afraid. But if he knows what it's like to be afraid, well, then he's not all powerful. So, do you see that? Do you see the incoherence? That's what they'll say to us. So, do you see that? Do you see the incoherence? That's what they'll say to us. Now, at first, you know, maybe we're taken off guard with a question like this,

Starting point is 00:19:16 but it really is quite simple to respond to. The fact is this, God knows what it's like for Matt Fradd to be afraid, and he knows what it's like for you, dear podcast listener, to be afraid. But God doesn't know what it is like for God to be afraid precisely because God is perfect. God is omnipotent. Okay. Now, what the person is saying when they claim God should know what it's like to be afraid, they're essentially saying God should know what it's like to experience imperfect things, okay, imperfect emotions or something. But of course, by definition, as we've said, God is a perfect being. And a perfect being can't experience pain or loss, okay? And if he can't experience pain or loss, then he can't experience fear. To say that he

Starting point is 00:20:15 should know what it's like to be afraid, for him to be afraid, is therefore meaningless. therefore, meaningless. And since it's meaningless, it can't be true. Okay. And if it can't be true, then it can't be known. And if it can't be known, then it can't contradict his omniscience. So, I'm going to go over that one more time. I'll say pretty much what I just said, but we'll say it again because maybe that went by rather fast. Since God is a perfect being, he cannot experience pain or loss. And so, if he can't experience diminishment in any sense, then it's ridiculous to say, it's like, it's nonsensical to say that a perfect being should experience an imperfect emotion, right? Like fear. To say that God should know what it's like for him to be afraid is therefore meaningless. And

Starting point is 00:21:21 if it's meaningless, it can't be true. And if it can't be true, it can't be known. And if it can't be known, it can't contradict his omniscience. So, I hope that's been a help. Just a couple of thoughts today. God's omniscience does not negate, do away with our free will. And God's omniscience isn't at odds with him being omnipotent. So that's all the time we have this week. Thank you very much for week after week tuning in to Listen to Pints with Aquinas. Really appreciate it. This is the end, or not the end, but the last episode of this year. And it's just been a tremendous honor. We have so many of you downloading these podcasts. I upload a single podcast and actually, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to tell you because I was about to make a statement and

Starting point is 00:22:17 I don't know if it's true because I'm not omniscient. Okay. So, let me see the kind of downloads we're getting just so you'll know how many of you out there doing this when i throw up a um not throw up when i put up a podcast within about a week or two we usually have over 3 000 downloads that's pretty awesome um right now we've got about almost, almost 200,000 downloads. People have been downloading this, um, since we began. So look, Hey, thank you. Thank you very much for your support. Thank you for all of you who write me a message on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook. I'm so sorry that I can't get back to each and every one of you. Uh's just a lot to try and do that. And I have a day job. But I really want you to know that whenever you write to me, I do make an effort to read it, even if I can't respond. And I'm

Starting point is 00:23:15 very appreciative for you for that. I've never talked about this on the show. But just so you know, one of the things I do is speak for a living. I travel the country and I speak on different topics having to do with the Catholic faith. My schedule is usually pretty full, usually a year in advance, but there's usually pockets here and there that I might be able to come and speak at your school or your parish or your university. Anyway, if you're interested in having me come out and speak, you can go to mattfradd.com and click seminars, and you'll be able to find there the email and number of my assistant, and you could book me for your next event. I'd love to come. All right. Until next week, God bless you. my whole life to carry you to carry you and I would give my whole life to carry you to carry you to carry you to carry you to carry you. To carry you.

Pints With Aquinas - 37: If God knows what I'm going to do, how can I be truly free?

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