Pints With Aquinas - Accepting Who God Made You to Be (Fr. Mike Schmitz) | Ep. 549

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

In this interview, Matt sits down with the one and only Fr. Mike Schmitz. The conversation focuses on accepting who God made you to be — as it relates to getting older, detachment (even from good things), anxiety, fatherhood, the spiritual life and more. Also discussed is fitness, the rising interest in Catholicism among young people today, Gen Z vs. Millennials, why Fr. Mike loves being a priest, the impact of Bible in a Year, God's love, grief, Fr. Mike's podcast, and the beauty or religious orders.  📚 Get my newest book, Jesus Our Refuge, here: https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Our-Refuge-Matt-Fradd/dp/1968630023/ 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 https://mattfradd.locals.com/support 💵 Show Sponsors:  👉 College of St. Joseph the Worker:  https://www.collegeofstjoseph.com/mattfradd 👉  Truthly – The Catholic faith at your fingertips: https://www.truthly.ai/ 👉 Hallow – The #1 Catholic prayer app: https://hallow.com/mattfradd  💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas 🎵 TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas 👕 PWA Merch – Wear the Faith! Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com 00:00:00 – Introduction and Matt's book 00:03:01 – The challenges and spiritual value of getting older 00:15:16 – Why are Gen Z and Gen Alpha different? 00:23:00 – Are young men becoming more interested in Catholicism? 00:32:52 – Wokeism 00:38:10 – Fr. Mike's early struggles with Catholicism 00:44:52 – How to talk to people the right way 00:50:32 – How Fr. Mike embraced the Church's sexual teachings 01:01:02 – Priestly celibacy and the challenges of being a priest 01:10:18 – Being introverted and dealing with fame 01:25:59 – Fr. Mike's most popular video and Bible in a Year 01:37:16 – Ministering to new Catholics and dealing with discouragement 01:51:05 – Fr. Mike's dating and marriage advice 02:01:28 – Matt loves 2025 02:05:53 – The danger of comparing yourself to others 02:09:13 – Confession and developing a stronger prayer life 02:21:40 – Spiritual reading recommendations 02:28:43 – Questions from viewers and closing remarks

Pines with Aquinas is brought to you by Truthly, which is a groundbreaking Catholic AI app built to help you know, live and defend the Catholic faith. Start your seven-day free trial today when you download Truthly on the app store. You were talking about old age and blowing out your body. So what did you do? Shoulder surgery? So yeah, no, a year and a half ago, I had back surgery. I had, um... Is that from working out? Well, I was going to heavy single and deadlift. The doctor was very specific about. the restrictions and he said like you can you can royally screw this up if you don't listen to these restrictions how are gen z kids different from millennial kids for example i remember

i remember being on campus when anxiety became the number one mental health issue over depression we have a god who is in love with us and who is infinitely happy and uh who is predestined us to sharing that happiness i mean that's a beautiful thing he gets to be our refuge and that's why i never want to have like, you know, Christianity be that narrative that has to fit always because Christianity's bigger. It's simpler and also more complex. Hey, everybody. Before we get into today's interview, I want to tell you about my brand new book. It's called Jesus, Our Refuge. If you, like many people, and like all of us, to one degree or another, have been seeking refuge in things other than Jesus Christ and have just found yourself

increasingly weary, then this book is for you. This book is about taking Jesus seriously when he says, come to me, you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest. It's getting great reviews and I know it will be a healing balm to your soul. Check it out, Jesus, Our Refuge. You can get it right now on Amazon.

Thanks. Well, I feel like I have to begin by acknowledging this ridiculous drink that I have here, which I explicitly asked for a paper cup so people wouldn't. Oh, so he wouldn't see the green. What is that? It's matcha tea.

Matcha. You ever heard of that? Is that, uh... It's green tea leaves that I guess they ground up. No, it's from Japan. They ground them up and then, so, I don't know. Somebody told me the caffeine hit you get is somehow mellower. Okay.

But it's still there? Yeah, but it lasts, last long. So I've heard of it, but I, my little sister did a, have you heard of Knowles? No. The National Outdoor Leadership School? No. So I did it. I thought you meant Michael Knowles.

No. But it's the same spelling, N-O-L-S. Okay. So I did it, I graduated college and did like a month, I did a month in the wilderness. And so the idea is you're getting trained to lead people into the wilderness. And I was like, yeah, someday I'd like to do that.

Maybe like a John Paul the second kind of thing. I just graduated college before I became a missionary in Central America and liked it 30 days. It was great. My little sister, she did a whole semester where half the semester they sea kayak off the coast of Chile. and then the other half the semester,

they hiked in Patagonia and mountaineered and all these kind of things. And they drank something. She called it, but it wasn't macha, but it sounds like macha. So if anyone knows what that is. That's what that is. What do you think about that non-sequitur?

Oh, that's good. How are you doing with coffee? We just started, you were talking about old age and blowing out your body. So what did you do? Shoulder surgery? So, yeah, no, a year and a half ago, I had back surgery.

I had um golly is that from working out or well I was going to heavy single and deadlift and uh and it was a weight I had done before and once before and I just you know went for it and halfway up I felt a little and I was like okay the first thought my first thought was oh shoot my second thought was I should finish this lift because I need to lock it out because this might be the last time I ever get to lift heavier again and my third thought was okay from now on it is longevity over one rep maxes and so so but that was That was the worst. For the next month, I had the worst pain in my entire life. I have so much compassion now for people who have back pain because, you know, my thought

was, oh, my back hurts. I'm like, okay, well, maybe lie down. You know, and people would say that to me. Like, well, I see, I heard that if you lie down, but your legs up kind of a thing, like there was no escaping. There was no escaping. This pain that was shooting down my leg was, was, was, there was no alleviating it, no matter how many, like, Advil or whatever it was I took.

It didn't do. And so then I'm so grateful, too, for medicine. because, yeah, I mean, I have a sister who's an orthopedic surgeon. My dad was an orthopedic surgeon. I have a sister who's a PT. And so I'm like, I'm texting them in almost middle of the night saying, what can I do? And they're like, we'll do your best. But in the last, not the last minute, but after a whole month of like trying, trying to figure out what it was,

they'd done an MRI and my sister hooked me up with one of her fellow residents, who was a spine specialist and got me in. And it was so we need to get you in now because there were some bigger things happening. And I remember sitting there in the pre-op room with my dad, who he had done hundreds of these surgeries and people. And he just said, he said, imagine if this happened 60 years ago and you were like, you know, a manual laborer, like what you would do. Because there's nothing you can do. There's no amount of massage or therapy or needling or anything like this. There's nothing to do.

The piece of the disc had broken off and was pressing against the nerve. And I just thought, man, some people, that was their lives. That was their entire lives. I went under and woke up however long later and it was gone. Like the pain was just gone. And I just, it was one of those situations where I can't even think about it now. This is a year and a half ago. I can't even think about it now without being so overwhelmed with gratitude.

Because even that week, the week before, that was a Friday. I remember I got around on Friday. That week I thought, because my dad had some back issues. I thought, oh, Lord, thank you so much for, I have a healthy body. Like, thank you so much that my back is, you know, strong. And then that Friday, like, okay. And so that was, you know, kind of trying to recover from that, which is a whole other story. But, I mean, surgery is not optimal unless you need it.

Yeah. I mean, how was your recovery? That was the thing is, is so I had this shoulder issue for years now. I had gone into physical therapy and then it would hurt again. And so I had an MRI on the shoulder before the back. And my sister, the orthopedic surgeon, is like, you have to go in. I have a great surgeon. She'll take care of it.

da, da, da, da, da. And I just, like, I can't stop. I can't slow down. I can't do this. And so I put it off. But then when the back hurt, it was, oh, I need to do this. It wasn't an option. It was, it was a necessity. And then it was, okay, what do I need to change? What do we need to shift around this summer? So because it was in May so that I can take the next 10 weeks because it was a pretty big. The doctor was very specific about the restrictions. And he said, like you can you can royally screw this up if you don't listen to these restrictions which are no bending, twisting

or lifting anything heavier than a gallon of milk for the next six weeks. No way. And so I was like, he's like, and he kind of challenged me and I'm like, no, I'm on your side. Like I'm on team, let's not do this again. And so it was-

Did you get to have time off or? No, I had to keep going. I had one week or so. Actually, it was fascinating. I'm fascinating to me, I guess. The surgery was on a Tuesday. day. And I had to give a talk at a local regional Eucharistic Congress that Saturday. And so I'm so grateful the Ascension people, they were going to be there in Babidim, Minnesota. But I'm like,

I don't think I can do it. I don't think I can make it there. That we can come to you. So they came to Duluth and set up a studio. We filmed the talk. And then I got to rest for the next five days. But then had to travel, got to travel, and got to say, I'm sorry, could you, I can't pick up this bag. Could you help me put this out? Was that difficult? Not at all. No, not asking people, but I mean, not being able to pick up anything heavier than a gallon of milk. Did you realize just how many things in existence were heavier than a gallon of milk? I became the, uh, could you help me please? Can you help me please? I mean, I, because

there was, there was the fear of like, oh no, I know what this pain was like. I'm going to do exactly what they tell me to do, um, kind of out of, yeah, that fear. So it was, if anything remotely was that backpack. Um, that was, uh, that was, uh, that was, uh, that was, uh, that was, uh, that was, people are like, this is too heavy. I'm like, yeah, but if I keep it close to my body, it'd be fine. So that was where I kind of pushed the line. So, okay, let's talk about working out, because working out is very good. I do weight training three times a week, but it's nothing like, I used to do CrossFit.

Yeah, I remember. But I am sort of afraid of doing what you did to your body. Yeah. And I'm always overly cautious. And the more I hear stories like that, the more I pat myself on the back for that fact. Super good. So what have you, like, how have you dialed things back since then? So that's been an interesting thing.

I think, so as I mentioned, that was last summer with the back, and then in the fall, like the shoulder just like, again, kind of a pop at things. Just during working out, you have to stop. And the thing is, so I had scaled back from doing all the things that hurt it, and I was doing something that never had hurt it in the past. I was like, this is fine, I can do this. And I was like, ah, shoot. So it gone into PT again. I got an injection, didn't help at all. And so it was like, okay, we need to do this.

So then we scheduled the surgery, again, right after the school year ended. And so I was able to, we had all those online masses and the things we kind of was able to kind of backlog them or uplog them. I don't know, pre-log them. And so I went in for the surgery. It was so interestingly, okay, so you mentioned. You're unconscious for both surgeries. Yes.

So grateful for that as well. Seriously. I want to ask the dentist to do that to me when she has to put a filling in. The shoulder one was, you know, the back was constant pain and so waking up was a relief. The shoulder was, okay, waking up and now I'm immobilized for the next six weeks and can't do anything with my right arm.

And it's massive pain. Like comparatively, the back was before surgery was just excruciating. After surgery, amazing. Yeah. It was the opposite for the shoulder. Shoulder, I was like, even the day before, I was like, wait, why am I doing this surgery again?

because I was doing some movements, and I'm like, this is fine. And then I did another, I'm like, okay, it's not fine. But afterwards, it was, yeah, it was. After the surgery, you wish that maybe you had have done more PT and not done the surgery? No, no, I knew I needed it because they had some imaging of it where everything is torn inside there. So they needed to do it and, but it was, yeah, it was good recovery. So how do you work out now? So obviously it's important to keep working out.

Yeah, come on. They said the first six weeks are immobilized and protect. The second six weeks are range of motion. and then the next six weeks are you can start strengthening. So I'm in that third set of six weeks. Right now. Yeah. You know what's scary is when you see part of your body atrophy?

Oh my gosh. So I tore my MCL, like I told you a couple of months ago, and I was getting some platelet injections. Yeah. That hurts a lot. Does it really? I mean. Because I thought about it for the shoulder.

It hurt me. So they take your blood. They put it in a centrifuge, spin it around, and it separates the, I don't know, the blood from the plates from the plates. in the blood. And then he did five injections in my knee. Really? And I was laying there and I said, could you please lie to me and tell me that this will be fine? He's like, yeah, yeah, you'll just experience a discomfort. All those lies. Discomfort. And the injection didn't hurt, but as he pushed something into a space that didn't need it, it felt like fire in my knee. And then my entire

body began to sweat. Yeah. And I'm not sure why my body thought that was necessary or how that was going to help me. Yeah. But it hurt a lot. Yeah. But anyway. Why did I bring up my knee? Atrophy. Atrophy. Yeah. So he said I squeezed both my quads and I could see it. Yeah.

That's scary. Oh, so with the leg, with the back, my right Vastas Medialis, which is kind of the quad on the inside of your leg, that way went numb. So the outside was on fire for a month. And the inside went numb. I couldn't fire it at all. And so it's still a year later, still smaller. You can tell.

If I have shorts on, it's like, oh, hey. Yeah. That little teardrop is a smaller tree. you're dropping the other. But then the arm, my arm is just tiny. It is, I was like, and then my shoulder, the whole thing. And, and everyone's like, be patient. I'm like, oh, no, I'm not complaining. I'm just observing that. That it's, it is so interesting how quickly, I mean, we're so fragile, which is, it is remarkable. I've been, I've been really grateful to that be able to reflect on this, not in an abstract way, but in a concrete way of, of just, even, even something like the healing of

stitches that I was thinking about this this morning actually at one point was it last fall two falls ago I had this like bump in the side of my head and my sister was like oh yeah it's a cyst of some kind of sort and like will you cut it out sure so I laid down on my living room floor and she put you know some things behind my head and and cut me up and pulled it out and live stitch me up and I thought okay get a couple stitches we're good now we're good to go she's like oh, no, you can't exercise for like six weeks or sorry, six days, ten days, something like this. And I was like, oh, really? And it takes the reality. And this sounds so stupid to say. I don't have Wolverine's healing factor. It's just like, no, it's just like a normal human

being. It takes a long time for those things to heal. And sometimes they don't ever heal. Like, oh, wow, yeah, that's true. And there's something, a big blessing about, and I really mean it in the sense So I've been trying to look at it the right way and not complain, but the reality of how I think, as we age, things need to start failing, or I remain attached. And so there's this piece of there where I just, for me, maybe, maybe it's just for me.

I don't know, but I think it's for the human rights. I think we, or I get so attached to, well, here's what, I'm going to do. Here's what life is going to be like. Here is, I'll always feel this way. I'll always be able to see like now. The eyesight's failing. Ear, eyeballs, the earballs, everything's fading.

There's something about that that's just like, okay. Yeah, that is hard. It's not just you're being detached from bad habits. Being detached from things that you thought were good. Like, you know, I want to be in shape. Yeah. I take kind of pride in being strong or what have you. Yeah.

Or even just take pleasure in it. There's something, you know, rewarding about. Yeah. So you're mentioning, like, working out and realizing that it's really difficult, it's been kind of difficult, it's been a challenge after the back to come back and say, okay, how can I, what are my new goals that that are interiorly or internally meaningful, challenging, and yet attainable in some ways? You know, where it's like before, it's like, oh, just go. Apparently we're just getting stronger and stronger. And it's like, oh, maybe we're not. And so it's been a, it's been a decent learning experience of,

I'd say I'm probably the least healthy I've ever been. Even though I work out, I don't know, five or six times a week. Still? Yeah. Come on. You work at a university campus, the name of which is. The University of Minnesota, Duluth. How long have you been there?

It's my 21st year. All right. So here's the question I wanted to ask you. How are Gen Z kids different? And this is how I know I'm old. Speaking of old age, I look at university kids. Yeah. Yeah. I shouldn't do that, but that's what I call them. How are Gen Z kids different from millennial kids? Well, it's interesting. I've 21 years ago when I got this assignment to both be the director of youth ministry and the diocese and then chaplain at the university. For some reason, I don't know if someone told me or. Or I just was moved to, I never, I never call them kids, not even the middle schoolers. I might say the students, the campers, the retreatants, we put on retreats and whatever, or the, you know, the youth. But I'll never say kids, I don't know. It seems. Well, it's patronizing. It seems like it.

But I know what you're saying, because, you know, it makes sense for someone not in my role. Right. So what are they like? They are very much, I don't know. Have you noticed different struggles? or is it all the same just comes out differently? It is

everyone's an individual still and that's the piece that always, that's been the constant is that every person is, you might see some patterns of thought or might see some kind of behaviors that I would say,

hmm, that's different or not new. But one of the things I just have always been struck by. Because everyone, that's a kind of a question I've been asked many times. And it could be my inability to diagnose. Because I've seen big things, for example.

I remember being on campus when anxiety became the number one mental health issue over depression. And I remember seeing that as a real thing in students' lives. What do you think cause that? You know, I wonder if it isn't the fact that they are not presented with what is permanent and actually permanent. I think there's a vast degree of impermanence and things that what people put their hope in.

Like we put our hope in things will get better, put our hope in other people. We put our hope in structures, you know, like so government or academia, whatever the thing is. and they all fail, and the failures of those things are on display. So I think that that's a big piece of it. There's, I mean, there's obviously more as well. What have you seen? Well, I mean, I know this is the easy culprit, but first of all, what is anxiety? Is it when you feel a constant, low-level dread?

I don't know what it is. So that's a good, I came across a fantastic definition. from a woman who is she works at like an anxiety if you were to go away for six weeks because you're you're you have chronic like clinical anxiety and she said something along the lines of when when you're something okay I'm now I'm gonna I'm gonna butcher this but But the anticipation of pain is greater than your perceived ability to handle that pain. So uncertainty and feeling like I am not capable of handling. A threat that I won't be able to overcome.

I'm not capable of handling what's coming in the future. So I mean, as I say, I think it's an easy culprit, but it would be very difficult not to point to the internet and the internet in our pockets as one of the main reasons we feel constantly anxious. I would think just being in a continual state of, should I be responding to somebody? Oh, I just receive something. Should I send this?

Put this out into the world. Now, what are people saying about that? What do they think about me? I mean, that has got to cause anxiety. You would think. I mean, that plus kind of always being monitored, like you mentioned, kind of like, what does someone think now? I remember, remember, oh, so, you know, Jordan Peterson has mentioned,

that uh so levels the kind of the mid range or the bell curve of aggressive behavior is men and women are more or less yeah on the bell curve same but at the extremes men are vastly more aggressive um but he had said that uh the way that women are aggressive or manifest that is through gossip innuendo and reputation destruction guys might you know be bully each other physically or verbally whatever but it's different so the three three, gossip, innuendo, reputation, destruction. And you think one of the things that's happening is anxieties higher in females than in males,

coupled with the internet, where you could go home after school and you don't, there's, no one has the ability to harm you anymore. Like, gossip doesn't matter. Yeah, I remember that in the 90s. You know, I might have someone bullying me at school or I'd get into a tiff with somebody,

then I'd go home. And for better or worse, I was home. Yeah. The weekend, you're like, okay, you see them on Monday maybe. But there's safety there. And that gossip, innuendo, reputation destruction is limited to this place, as opposed to now it's always. So that anyone at any moment, you just decide that you're on the out, on the outside. And there's something about that fear of being on the outside that we all have.

So, yeah, I can imagine. that it'd be a very, very big thing. But you know what you see now too is, well, maybe Gen Z, Gen Alpha is. What's Gen Alpha? What year is that? See, the interesting thing, I remember, I used to do like some generational things

and I would say, okay, boomer one, boomer two, because those are two different eras. Boomer one would be, they're still really dedicated to, 20 years, it would typically be a generation, it would be 20 years, at least some of the people that I read 20 years ago. And so the first 10 years, Moomer 1, very locked in. Like, yep, we are patriotic.

We are part of the system where we trust in systems. Wumer 2 was where the hippies came from. And so it's same generation, but two waves in that one generation. My dad even described how his last year of college, he said was the first year. He said, yeah, in college, everyone had a crew cut, a white t-shirt and jeans.

That's how we, like, that was what we wore to school all the time or whatever. And he said, my senior year was when the first, you know, long-haired student showed up, a freshman. And I was like, wow, that's your boomer one. He's clearly boomer one. And after that would be, what, Gen X, right, I think? I don't know. And then millennial after that, isn't it?

And then millennial. Okay. Then Gen Z. Then Gen Alpha. It seems to me, and I could be wrong on this, I should do more reading about it. Either people are just coming up with shorter timeframes because we need a new thing. or maybe things are moving so quickly that's what it is. That's what people tell me it is.

That's what younger people tell me it is. They say it's because of the advancement of technology that the Gen Z's life, they grew up inside of the internet, is totally different to me. Nate Bagazzi has that funny joke where he says, I have more in common with a pilgrim than my daughter. That's good. That's really good.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was going to say, I'm hearing that there's a lot of people turning towards Christianity and Catholicism. It was like the new atheism had its day. We're kind of tired with modernity and being rootless and just floating through the void. We would like some meaning. Peterson filled that gap for a while or perhaps he's something of a gateway drug.

So on university campuses, are you seeing that? Are you seeing young men more interesting Catholicism than you did 15 years ago? Absolutely. I remember the first, yes. And that's been a growing trend. One of the things, this was pointed out to me by a priest in Chicago. And I was like, oh my gosh, that is absolutely right. he had pointed out that one of the moves was it will for you know many years early 2000s well

even 90s sorry hit the mic even late 90s early 2000s new atheists uh does god exist there's been a rise a decrease in that question in the sense of it seems reasonable to believe that god exists at least there are smart people around even now who believe god exists the question is is god good is the deeper question in the modern young adults' heart. And I would say all the way down to middle school is asking that question. And on the good hand, a good side of it, it's not a new question.

It's the same question the serpent asks of Adam and Eve in the garden, that sense of like, can you really trust him? Is he your dad or is he a dictator? That's the question. So it's not a new question per se, but at the same time, it's fascinating, because C.S. Lewis even wrote about this in God of the Dock, where that's, he said, he said, you know, for millennia, almost, you know, 1900 years, the image was here we're in a courtroom, and we're on trial because we're guilty. And what's God's answer for our guilt? God's answer for our guilt is the cross. And Lewis pointed out, I mean, this is maybe in the 30s or 40s. And he says that we still have a courtroom, but this time God is on trial because he's guilty.

of putting us in a world with suffering and death and evil. And what's God's answer to our lack of trust is the cross. And so it's the same, God's answer is the same, because even if the question changes. And so it's both an ancient question. Also, again, so it goes all the way back to the garden, but it's also a relatively new thing. I've just seen that one more and more.

I don't know where it comes from. I think there's an aspect of being people being dissatisfied with the world. So are you seeing men just kind of come to your office? Are you seeing them show up at church events or Holy Mass on campus? How are you seeing them come? Yeah. Their friends often bring them or someone reaches out. We're on campus and someone says,

do you like meet with people? I guess. Yeah, yeah, we do. Yeah. I mean, just for example, on this last Tuesday, we had an event. that was advertised as called Open Door. And the idea was come with questions, leave with more than answers.

That's the tagline that we came up with. And the first night was on truth and God's existence. And it was packed. Like the whole ballroom was full of everyone from freshman to grad students. Wow. This is an optional event. Yeah, completely optional. The fourth week or fifth week of class on a Tuesday night.

And there's that big question there, right? And so a lot of people, they stayed as long as they could afterwards, just wanting to keep talking about this and keep asking questions. And it was great. Next week we'll talk about who is Jesus and just kind of take some of those steps. But the fact that it's not a hard sell to invite people to consider these questions. They're already thinking about them. Again, I think this show is a great example.

That there are so many people and not just people in general, but specifically a lot of men who watch this, listen to this, because it's like, wait, let's talk about ideas. Let's talk about truth. Let's talk about purpose. Let's talk about meaning. Let's talk about what is it to live a life of virtue.

And I think people, I don't know, I think there's something, the way you do it too and the people you have on that can articulate this in a powerful way that is compelling and doesn't seem either sappy or stupid. Yeah. Like it's not sappy in the sense of like, oh, you know, it's all going to be fine.

And it's not stupid in the sense that if you've thought, I sometimes go back and read some of the stuff you wrote like 20 years ago. And I'm like, wow, that was Matt. Oh, my gosh. On what? It's all over the place. For example, this morning, I get an email every day from. Someone else sent me this text today, yeah.

Yeah. And I'll be honest, I do not remember that. I remember writing. Reading through it, I didn't see who it was by yet. And I was like, oh, that's good. That's good. Oh, that's Matt. I'm talking to him later on today.

And I was just like, I was just so grateful. And I thought, when did you write that? So I don't even remember. I have no idea. You know, you're exactly right. I mean, we have such brilliant people here on the show that I get, have the honor of talking with. And to me, it seems like that's a good enough reason

to give God a chance. If there are people who are intelligent and they don't seem, they seem like they're believing in God for good reasons. And if you don't think there are any good reasons to not believe in God, then you could like lean your sort of desires toward that conclusion

and journey in that direction until you feel more of a conclusion, do you think? Yeah, when I also think that there's some of the, some of the, I don't know what you say, stereotypes or some of the, I don't say cliche, because that's the wrong word, but some of the reasons why in the past, when I say in the past, I mean in my lifetime,

that would make it harder to have credibility. I think there have been, enough people who have demonstrated integrity so that when someone has received you in good faith, they can recognize that the sins of some people did not negate the truth or the goodness of the core, the reality of the whole. And I think that's why I got that a lot. I mean, being on campus again for two decades now. I remember those first years after, I guess, I got assigned on campus 2005 originally, yeah, 2005. And so, you know, this is a tough time to dress as a priest and be on a campus and all these kind of. And then 2012, we had a marriage amendment in Minnesota during

that time. And it was just like there was a lot of, there was a lot of reasons why people would be mad at me even if they aren't mad at me in particular if that makes any sense and so that seems to be changed it seems like um as things have shifted i like to think of these events that take place in culture that get us all riled up or confused as ideological smoke bombs you know so you're walking along you see things clearly and then something goes off and so the new atheism was one of those things you know that kind of went off in everybody's face and Christians were like scrambling to come up with an answer or not look like an idiot.

And then you're being told by Richard Dawkins that if you raise your children Christian, this is abusive. And you're like, I hope I'm not abusive. And it's like if you're kind of philosophically astute or intelligent enough, you can see through that. But a lot of people couldn't. And I think something similar with gay marriage. You know, like back then, I don't know what it was.

Was it in the water or the air or just you felt like you had to continue justify yourself. Whereas today, I'm willing to bet no one is terribly concerned that you're against gay marriage who comes to you. No one cares at all. They're like, good. I hope you are. Yeah, I think for the most part. I mean, at least it's... But isn't that wild how like at one stage everyone is like riled up and super offended or super on edge about a particular topic? Yeah. And then that smoke kind of dies down and everyone kind of starts to see clearly for whatever reason. And then we can talk about it rationally. Well, I wonder if it's partly because the decision has been made in our country, at least.

And at the time, it was when people were still voting before Oberg fell. And I wonder if that's part of it. I think that's part of it. There's less of a push. Things are still at stake. But again, I think it's that push and that obviously financially backed push

by the left that caused it to be such a prominent issue. and then when you spoke out against it, people would say, calm down, spas, what does it got to do with you? And you're like, y'all are clearly pushing this on us. I even think, like, the transgender smoke bomb to one degree has died down. I've been talking a lot lately about my friends

at the College of St. Joseph the Worker, you know, Jacob Imam, Mike Sullivan, Andrew Jones, and company, the guys who started the college that combines the Catholic intellectual tradition with skilled trades training. Well, listen to this. They're growing their program

and are looking to connect with experienced Catholic tradesmen to hire as instructors. So if you are an experienced carpenter, plummer, HVAC technician or electrician, and want to help mentor and teach future Catholic tradesmen, go right now to College of St.Joseph.com slash careers to connect with the college and see how you can become part of something truly special. And if you're watching or listening and know a tradesman who needs to hear this message, please invite them to reach out to the college. That's college of st.joseph.com slash careers.

College of St.Joseph.com slash careers. Thanks. Focus just asked me to give a talk on wokeism in January. And I said, why? No one cares about it anymore. You're on a campus. Maybe it's different. But for me, I'm like, it's done.

Wokism's done. It's just the fumes. It's like how Christianity was in the 70s, just riding on the fumes of better people who lived before them. Thankfully, there's a revival. But like, wokeism's dead. That's how I see it.

Yeah, I think it's a good point. That's not to say there aren't full mass shootings by transgenderism folks and others that we're seeing and that we might need to address, but I just mean the anyway. No, yeah, I would say I remember the first time I tried to have a conversation with someone who had really kind of drank that Kool-Aid. And it was, you just try to receive people. And it was no matter what, no matter what I said, just kind of received just, yeah, okay, tell me more about that kind of a situation. It was this necessity to see themselves as a victim as well as to really everything to some kind of some kind of class struggle

or some kind of power struggle. And I just thought, this is the last time we ever spoke was they, I couldn't, I couldn't give them that ground. It was a moment where I had used to, we had met many times. I'm just trying to like, just receive, and let's walk and at one point, I had used a story in a homily and she came up and said,

well, you think it's because of racism? I was like, oh, no, that had nothing to do with it. He wouldn't even, this person in the story wouldn't have never even claimed that. It was something completely different. And I remember it was Palm Sunday because she had made crosses out of her palms. She had made three crosses out of her palms.

And she said, well, you can have these. It's clear I don't belong here. And I was like, I have them still. And they're normally on the, mantle up above the fireplace because it is a reminder of just here's this girl who there's no external reason why she would have been so captivated by this what lie i guess uh that all of life can be reduced to that and uh just yeah i just i wherever i see him i pray for and hope she's to him better what is it what is it the kind of uh

Because, yeah, I agree. It's, it really is a sort of like bourgeoisie, proletariat, communistic view of the world that has seeped into BLM and tranny stuff and all that. And it's very intoxicating, especially if you get to perceive yourself as a victim and everybody else to be an oppressor. Yeah. It also, I mean, it's kind of like, I don't know if you think like this, but I think sometimes I have to be on guard against,

a narrative that's too simple that explains everything that's an ideology right right and so that's i think that's part part of it that's so captivating is oh if we just did this everything would be resolved and if people just realize that i know this you know i learned this thing and it's it makes so much sense in this kind of abstract don't actually try to think it through and don't try to apply it as long as you don't try to apply it i just think about it in the classroom then then it's And it explains things. And that's why I never want to have, like, you know, Christianity be that narrative that has to fit. Always because Christianity is bigger.

It's simpler and also more complex that lends that story. But. Yeah, and it's a person. It's not an ideology. It's not a philosophy of life or a moral system. It's the best philosophy and it's the best moral system, but it's neither of those things. And we reduce it to them often, don't we? We think if people would just stop fornicating, you know, things would be.

He's so much better. Everyone just believe in God to be fine. Here's the syllogism, except it. But you're like, no, we have a God who is in love with us and who is infinitely happy and who is predestined us to sharing that happiness. I mean, that's a beautiful thing. He gets to be our refuge.

Yeah. And I can know the truth. That's this, then the brokenness of my own self, but it's the brokenness of humanity. I can know the truth and not do the truth. And I live that. Like I can know, oh, this leads to death and this leads to life and I can choose death.

on a regular basis in the almost the same breath just to recognize uh i don't know my own it could be that that sense of what is it so again the answer has to explain all of it not just well i like how you put it many years ago when people were debating you know same-sex relationships and things like that you had said and said many times this is not us against them It's just us with all of our different, you know, some perversions are worse than others. No one would deny that. But we're all struggling with our wounds, our passions, our perversions, all of us. We're all in this together.

And so, yeah, I think you run into trouble if you look at that girl who gives you the three crosses and say that she's somehow fundamentally different than me, like it's true that she's bored into something false, but like how have I done that? And those are difficult questions, eh? It'd be much easier just to sort of draw a line around yourself and your friends. and say, we're good, they're bad. Yeah. Well, I don't have too far to remember when I was in college.

I was studying theology, going to daily mass, daily holy hour, became a missionary in Central America. I don't know if I shared this with you, but, and I hated the Catholic Church. I was a Catholic missionary. Oh, wow. What did you hate the Catholic Church, too, but I love the Catholic Church. And this is, it was, I would say because, it's a couple of reasons. One is because.

So you're a Catholic Church. Like, as a Catholic missionary, what did you hate about it? When I say I hate the Catholic Church, what I mean is I'm pretty sure it's one of, if not the most corrupt institutions on the planet. And I see it failing everywhere. And that's okay with me. Actually, I have received a great deal of peace from realizing to quote Peter Kostnevsky that the ship that has sailed across the oceans of time is not this glowing orb with

the epitome of, you know, Christian men and women. Yeah. No, the ship is sinking. There are holes in the side. The mast is broken. And the sailors are drunk, but it's the only one that'll reach the port. So it's here or you die in the ocean.

That's what I meant by that. Of course, I love our holy church. No, I would say this. I would say. But what was it about it for you? I had some questions about the hot button issues, the areas where as Catholics, we took a stand and other Christians didn't.

And so questions like contraception. I don't know why that became an issue for me in college because I wasn't contracepting and didn't have any need to, but it seemed like such a silly thing, a silly teaching. Like kind of hung up on? Is that good idea?

What, why is this? And when I would ask, I didn't, I wouldn't get a good answer. I remember a answer, an answer was, well, you know, goes back to this Augustinian framework

where the body is bad and sex is bad, da, da, da, da. And I'm then, and kind of what came down to is don't worry, that church will change. And I was like, well, yeah,

you know, I'm the theology major, so I'm so smart. So I can blame people who didn't necessarily give me the answer that I was looking for. I also have to take responsibility for my own pride and my own, like, well, no one's convinced me yet. So, you know, I can have a hard, hard heart and hard mind. But that was it. That kind of started it. It was sexual ethics type stuff.

At the same time, like, I wholeheartedly believe the Eucharist. I absolutely know abortion is wrong. And so it was like, why contraception? Like, again, it just seemed like I'd asked the question, did not get a good answer, and then it was kind of in this place where these stuff really skeptical of the church, you know, the Catholic Church. Because it's embarrassing. We have these stands on certain things.

And again, I can blame the externals all I want. Ultimately, it's come down to me. The point being this, I could tell you the story of coming back to the church. Was this in the mid to late 90s? This is interesting for people who might be much younger, not realizing that at the click of a button, you could see what the church taught

and why. There was Jason and Kristina Everett and Dr. Janet Smith and Dr. Scott Arndt. So what resource did you look into resource or was resources not available except for those people in your life? So I, that's a good question because that's why I can blame myself.

Were the resources available that I didn't, either know of or didn't really pursue? I think that there's a quickness I could have to being stubborn and being like, well, I didn't see anything. That didn't make any sense. And so I'm out. You know, and so, again, I have to blame my own pride and my own lack of diligence. So I can't just point to certain professors or priests or nuns who didn't give the direction

I was looking for. I'll tell you the story coming back around. But to pause on that for a second. And I realize that that ultimately wasn't the end of my story, that, I mean, if you, I remember I would be in these classes, theology classes with deacon candidates from the diocese in which I was going to school. And these were like, I look back and I'm so embarrassed. These are like really good men, you know, men who just, they're raising their family. They're taking a night class. They haven't, it's a three year pro, whatever it is program. And I've been taking, you know, theology. I'm 21. I've been studying this for, you know, day in and day out and just like mocking and having arguments with them in class. And they're just like, no, I'm just trying to be faithful to the church. If I'm not here, I am going faithful to the church, that's stupid, you know, kind of thing. And so because of how what a jerk I know I have been, when I talk to

someone like that young woman or talk to any of our students, I realize, oh, no, no, no. I genuinely mean it, not even in this kind of super, I'm a humble person, but I don't know if I've ever met anyone worse than me in some ways. I mean, some ways I'm fine. Some ways I'm really great, better than you. But when it comes to some of those areas, I'm like, no, I, if you would have replayed a conversation from class or, yeah, usually class, usually it was kind of like I had fun kind of with that academic, sparring. Sparring. But what cost, you know? I mean, I actually even in seminary, even though I came back to the church and internally as well as externally. And on, I'm going on a tangent. I don't need to go. I don't need to, unless you want me to keep going. But you think it's worth it. Well, I just think there's an aspect where it's, I know that I have the potential on my, On my evaluation after a year or two of being in major seminary,

one of the things that came up was Mike is often caustic and abrasive in class. That is interesting. You are not like that. I don't see you like that. I'm grateful for that because. And what it was was, I know which professor was, it was the one. The stupid one. It was the dumb one.

It was free with me. The one who wasn't faithful as faithful to the church. So at this point, I'm like, oh, I'm in now. But the same jerkiness that was jerks to the guys. who were faithful to the church when I was not came out when I am faithful and the other guy is not. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And so, and so just, I mean, I remember reading that and thinking, oh, I know who said that, you know, Dr. So-and-so. But that doesn't give me the right to be caustic and abrasive. I don't know.

Well, I was talking to a therapist here recently and I realized very quickly that he has a very different job to me, clearly. I mean, he's got a deal with hurting human beings. And I think it's way too easy to run a podcast and to run your mouth off and to sound all aggressive because the YouTube algorithm really respects that.

You know, humility rarely goes viral. But no, what I love about what you're doing, Father, is that you're actually on campus with flesh and blood human beings and my fear is that many of us who run podcasts don't interact with those things called human beings. and if we do, maybe we're not even having conversations about the faith with them because that's too awkward or too embarrassing, so we just jump on here and do it.

And it's very different engaging with a human being, with their history and their hang-ups. So I'm thrilled that thank you for doing what you're doing and thank you for being so charitable to people. I mean, it's funny, right? Like, what gives us the right to be so arrogant and to shame people and to judge them? First, because as you say, our own sins are countless. But two, we all acknowledge that culture is destroyed or at least broken in some significant way. People are growing up in broken families and they're dealing with unheard of levels of anxiety.

And we say, well, for good reason, look at what we've created. And then we turn around and we shame people or we blame them for asking questions or like this beautiful girl, God lover, who get upset with you, you know. But yeah, it takes a lot more patience, doesn't it, to walk with people. Yeah, yeah, it's slam dunking on people on Twitter, way more fun, looks really cool, but no, it's messy. Like real relationships are messy. It's great to be able to look back and say, oh, I remember meeting with this guy and now look at him. He's doing great. He's married and he's moving forward or whatever met with this girl and she had a conversion. It's amazing, which is great. But then you look back and think, oh, that was that hard conversation. And this time where it was just like we're really struggling. And it's just messy. That's one of the reasons why you pointed it out. just now, but when I talk to people who are, who will say, hey, I teach religious ed on Wednesday nights, or I teach you to Catholic school and we use your resources all the time, I think, okay, in that context, they start saying, thank you. Like, you're the one doing the hard work. Yeah. I get to sit

in a room and hit record, blah, blah, blah, hit stop. You're the one who has to press play and then I do my thing and then someone says, I don't know what I think about this or I think that's horrible or whatever the thing is, but you, if you're walking with them, you're the one way harder. It's vastly harder, but that's the, that's, I just, I, I can. It's way harder and you perceive it as less glory, right? You record a video and you're very excellent at it.

You get tens of thousands of views and it's like, oh, that looks good. I just get to look at those numbers. I shouldn't put it on you, myself included, right? And then this poor fella is showing your video and then he's interacting with one person and no success may come of it at the way he sees it. And that feels a lot less glorious.

Yes, but as you say, he's the one in the trenches compared to the YouTuber or the podcaster. Well, I remember hearing it was not a, it wasn't Catholic, but it was a Christian who was working at a Christian seminary and said one of my fears is that a lot of the people are here to be preachers, not pastors. And that notion of, I'm going to get back to the business of,

yeah, just preaching, being on stage or in the sanctuary, I guess, whenever, wherever they have in their churches. And they used an example where they were going through this class of how to walk with people in a pastoral way, had some kind of case studies. And one of the seminarians asked something along the lines of, so how do we fix this so that we can get back to the work of, you know, being a pastor. And the teacher was like, no, this is the work of being a pastor.

This is the work of all of these people. And it's just, I look at my brother priests and he just in my diocese too. And I think, man, I remember one guy came over. There was confession. He wanted to go to confession. So I'm like, yeah, come by. I had just gone back from like a trip of, you know, speaking and this and that. And I'm like, yep, I'm at the house.

And so he swung by and went to confession. And he's like, okay, sorry, I have to run. I'm away to the hospital. You know, it wasn't urgent, urgent, but it was like, I have to go because there's someone who needs me to be there. This family needs me. And so I just stopped by for five minutes.

And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, here I am this, you know, getting back from a trip sitting in this house in my shorts. And here's this man who once again, and that's the thing is like, oh, these priests, once again are getting up and going to the hospital. Once again or getting up. Oh, the priest who can't confession.

Yeah, sorry, yes. Sorry, should have been clearer about that bad storyteller. But that sense of, I'm so moved by, yeah, that my brother priest and our diocese who just, they just keep loving, they're ordinary people, loving ordinary people. And that's way more important, way more important than. It reminds me of Chesterton's line,

there's nothing so extraordinary as an ordinary man, his ordinary wife, and their ordinary children. And something similar could be said, right? There's no priest so ordinary, Extraordinary is the one who just sort of gets up and does his best and is present to the people who are in pain. Yeah, I get to do fun things. Like, you know, here we are.

Yeah. And it's just. How did you reconcile your opinion with the church's teaching on human sexuality? I just want to make sure I tie that up. So, yeah, no, so I was a missionary teaching religion and English at a Catholic high school in Central America. and I got it was run by salt this is our our lady was holy trinity and so i remember this very

clearly we we landed and the principal mr mr tim robinson he met us and from the moment he started speaking i was like whoa this is like catholic with a capital c like this is what is going on here and here i am as i'm the theology major i know all of this stuff and so here i am still going to mass there are two priests uh father uh father john mckew who's one of the co-founder of and Father Tony Blunt, Father Anthony Blunt. And Father John was the old priest. Father Tony was a young priest. And I'd go to Daily Mass.

And I would like openly like dismiss them. So they'd be preaching and I'd be like, like rolling my eyes, doing this kind of like, I can't believe this, you know. And I realize now up there you can see all of it. Like you can see everything. I'm not hiding. Like no. I was like, well, they can't see me. They don't care.

No, they were ignoring me because I'd be distracting them. they would have, we would have missionary meals and sit at these couple picnic tables in their home every, every night a week, of the week. And oftentimes the missionaries, other fellow teachers would be, we're all at the same age, we're all kind of doing this thing, we'll be asking Father Tony or Father John questions. And I'm down there at the other end of the table just making fun. Like, yeah, ridiculous, that's dumb. And two things happened that like changed everything.

One is, had been there for maybe a month and a half, two months. and they got really, really sick. Like so sick, they're like, oh, I think you might, this might be the ant kind of a thing. Like it was, it was, and so I'm laying there in my bed in this jungle area type place. And Father Tony, I would usually describe his days. They would start so early, five o'clock. He'd pray, he'd go across the border. He'd be saying mass all day, bring the sacraments, come back across the border between Belize and Guatemala.

and St. Mass on the Belizeon side at like seven. So now it's 7.45, 8 o'clock. And he's crossing the little dirt alley between the church and his rectory to get some rice and beans. And someone's like, oh, Father Tony, Mike's really sick. And so this guy who I'd been a jerk to for the last two months, doesn't hesitate. He runs back into the church, gets Holy Communion,

gets the anointing oils, runs over to where I am. And he says, would you like to go to confession and receive anointing and communion? And there's so many layers to this. One layer on the side was, I was like, I don't need confession, I'll take the other two things though, you know, which that's a whole not other thing we could talk about later on.

But I remember one thought that I had as Father Tony's there, bringing me the anointing of the sick and Holy Communion, I thought, well, maybe Father Tony isn't, my way I could justify dismissing him was, well, he doesn't really know Jesus, like he's all about the rules. And I remember thinking, oh, maybe he does know Jesus. Like that was the, yeah, as if I could be the judge of that, but that's what I was.

I remember thinking that. Maybe he does know, I should give him another chance. And so it took me a couple weeks to recover. I recovered. And I was like, yeah, I'm giving Father 20 other chance. Like he's, ah, and he came to my bed side when I was sick. And then I saw him, and I was like, ah, I hate that guy. You know, it was just one of those.

But a couple weeks later, this is all having in this first semester. You thought you hate that guy who was coming to help you? Well, you know, because I was just like, yeah, I just, what a dummy. How would you think that if you were so sick? I would think you'd be grateful. I did. I was grateful initially. Oh.

And I was like, oh, wow, maybe he does know Jesus. This is amazing. He came to my, I know his long day. And he ran, even though I'd been a jerk to him, he ran over to that thing. And then I see him again, you know, and he'd say something about, like, the truth. Oh, this is after you'd recovered? Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So after I recovered and went to Mass, like, yeah, see, see, he's wrong again. So I didn't hate him, you know, but it was like, oh, yeah, he just, you know, thinks he's right still. Yeah. So a couple weeks later, every other Tuesday night, Father Tony would teach the teachers. And one night he was going to teach on Hamanavite, right? Pope Paul the 6th document on openness to life.

And I was like, I'm not going to go to that. That's ridiculous. And I was like, you know what? I am going to go to that. And I'm going to destroy him. Like, I'm going to blow him out. I have a degree in theology, you know. So I remember going into this classroom and like ready for a fight, like bring it on.

and I thought he was going to, I don't know what I thought he was going to say. Maybe it's something like, well, the Pope says this, therefore we have to obey it. But he just started with this kind of natural law. He said, we wrote on board, we all know this, right? Like, yeah. And we all know this.

Yeah. Well, therefore, and he connected the dots. And it was like halfway through this talk, I was like, oh my gosh. Like this is, what is going on? And by the time he got done, I remember thinking, I can no longer believe what I've been believing. Like, I walked out of that, that classroom, and it was just like

night and day. I just remember thinking, and it was also the experience, like, I was wrong, and it was an experience of being joyful at being wrong, because it was just, oh, my gosh, I was wrong. The church is right. And then it was this kind of painful, but great search for, like, where else do I think I'm right and the church is wrong? Where else is the church, could the church be right? And it started me on this, this path of like, oh my gosh, the joy of being wrong was, was what it was in that moment. And I'm so grateful in God's profit in so many ways. The next day is still rough around the edges.

So the next day, lunchtime, go over to the rectory to get some lunch quick. Father John's there. And he's lamenting that this liturgical abuse type thing had happened at an event he was at. And here I am going, ha, ha, ha, that sounds like a good night, you know, being a turd again. And so I leave to go back to school. And he goes on to the Porsche, like, Mike, he's from Oklahoma. Mike, he come back here for a second. I'm sure.

And then he was very, I mean, this man co-founded Solt. He's been a priest in this place for years. When he, oh, the priest he replaced had been murdered. And no one else would go there, but Father John would go. And so, like this man, and he's visibly agitated. He's like, so I don't know how to ask you this. I just, you know, I just have to know you're teaching religion at our school. Where are you at when it comes to the church's teaching on contraception?

And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm in. I'm off down. Like, it was one of those where that's the one thing that I had already, for the last previous 20 hours had been like, yeah, I'm on board. And he asked me, because he was like, he was ready to send me home. Like, had he heard something? Well, they just had seen all the me being such a. So, and so that was a, I mean, that started this whole process of being open.

To kind of follow up coming with this is I, so being open, the next semester is when I, in prayer, discerned, oh, God's calling me to go to seminary. So then that's the rest of that story. The next summer, so I already had one year of seminary, two of our missionaries were getting married to each other. And so Father John and Father Tony had come up from Central America to be at the wedding. and I caught them in the parking lot. And because I need to apologize. Like I have now a year or plus to look back and see like what a jerk I'd been, how horrible I was, even though that second semester, I think things were better.

And so I caught him in the parking lot. Like, fathers, you know, I just, I just want to apologize for, you know, being, you know, all this arrogant, et cetera, et cetera. And you would have thought that they hadn't noticed it. They were like, oh, no, no, no, nope. Almost like. So then in my mind, I was thinking, wait, was it not that bad? Was it actually, was I, maybe just in my head that I was, you know, so fast forward more.

I'm ordained now. I'm assigned to you. That's how they responded. That's how they responded. It's kind of like, oh, yeah, no, okay, well, whatever. Fast forward, I'm ordained. I'm assigned to the University of Minnesota Duluth. A couple of our students graduate and join Salt.

And so one of our students, she is, Father Tony is her formator. He's her spiritual director. and she's and she's like oh father tony um and father mike was he was my he was my priest back in deluth and he says he that he was kind of a you kind of a jerk to to you and father john and she said he sat back in his chair and he put his hands over his face and started rubbing his forehead good son and he said the number of nights that father john and i stayed up talking and praying about what do we do we do we send him home or what he can't why we're letting him teach in the school.

Like, he said, it was a big deal. So that, like, parking lot thing was, that was my perception. They were being nice to me. But they were like, yeah, no, it was, it was, we were going to send him home, which was really fascinating a couple years ago. I was in Detroit. Father Tony's assigned there now. He's in Detroit at a parish.

And he had me come over to the House of Formation. We hadn't really seen each other much. And to just kind of have dinner with the guys in formation and kind of tell him stories. And so I was. recounting this whole thing. I want to tell you about Hello, which is the number one downloaded prayer app in the world. It's outstanding. Hello.com slash Matt Frad. Sign up over there right now and you will get the first three months for free. That's like a lot of time. You can decide whether it's useful to you or not, whether it's helpful. If you don't like it, you can always quit hallo.com

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Hello.com slash Matt Fred. The link is in the description below. It even has an entire section for kids. So if you're a parent, you could play little Bible stories to them at night. it'll help them pray fantastic hello dot com slash matt fred father tony he's like oh you you missed a bunch of stuff like what did i miss he said one thing in particular he said when you that night that he gave the the talk on him on david he said i got done and uh any questions and you put your hand up

and you started asking about priestly celibacy like why priests have to be celibate and i remember standing there thinking this has nothing to do with the talk I just gave. This is nothing. And I had forgotten that completely. But looking back on it, I remember, oh, this was, I was running. Like this, I wonder if this, I needed an excuse to be angry at the church, because if I was angry at the church, then I could not do what God's asking me to do. Is that my same sense? And so here, here's, wow, this, this pillar got knocked down about contraception. Do you mean running from the priesthood? Yeah, I think so, in some ways. And then it was just one of those, like, wow, okay.

I can't remember that now. So I was trying to find something to grab onto that just would be. And then he said, a couple weeks later, he said, I don't know if you remember this. All the religion teachers were going to Belize City for some kind of conference. And I was going to give a talk. And Megan looked over and said, Father Tony, what are you talking about when we get to the thing? And I said the name of the talk and the topic. And then I said, Mike, what do you think?

what do you think about that and you looked at me and you smiled and you said i think that sounds really good and i had never seen you smile at me before and i thought what is going on in this guy's life i just think oh my gosh lord thank you so much like i i my spiritual director once i i i told him the whole thing i told him about that one night where father tony came over to offer confession and anointing and communion. And it's like a couple years later, he brought it back up. And he said, I don't bring this,

you know, you mentioned this when we first met, you told me your story. I want to tell you that when you told me your, that part of the story, like my blood ran cold. Because you know this, right? You know that if you would have died, you probably would have been lost to God forever. And I was like, oh my gosh, here I am.

Here is God offering me. his mercy that come literally coming to my and whenever i think of someone who says like you know on my deathbed then i'll have you know i'll go to confession on my deathbed or i have this kind of like i was for all intents of purposes on my deathbed no that's okay i'm still going to do what i want to do and i just think oh my gosh lord he's been so good to me and because of that i there's not one person that i they have that they they drank the cook again drank the of whatever the ideology is right now, whatever the movement is right now, whatever their hatred is against Jesus or the church right now, that I'm like, oh, no, that was, that was worse.

This question might be too personal so you can choose at whatever level you want to answer. But what's been the most difficult thing about being a priest? That's a good question. If you asked me that about marriage, I think I'd probably, I don't know, I wouldn't get super specific, right? So I don't mean to press. No, I think that, I don't know. I guess I don't, I don't.

Do you like it? Yeah. Do you like it more than you used to or less? So here's something about me, Matt. I rare, so self-reflection is a big thing, but grading the self-reflection is a small thing. So what I mean by that is at one point I was talking more about one of our focused missionaries. And she had said, oh, I can, never see myself living in Duluth forever.

And she said, do you like living in Duluth? And I thought, I've literally never asked that question to myself. Why? Because I don't, the bishop tells me where to live. I just go where he tells me to go. So I've never thought, huh, do I like living in Duluth? I just live in Duluth. And so similarly, like, do I enjoy or like being a priest more or less? Do you feel pressure to kind of be effusive about how great it is,

less people think that you aren't happy with it? I don't know. Because I think I would feel that way. If someone said, do you like being married? I think I would say, yeah, I mean, I love my wife. Yeah. But I could see the temptation to be like, oh my gosh, I love that. It's like, yeah, it's great.

Yeah. I think that there's different temperaments. So this is a, we've been doing this campaign fundraising to build a church in a Newman center. Have you? I've heard about it. I've heard about it. Oh, you don't know. Okay.

No, you told me about it. We texted about it a while ago, but. How's it, what is, what are you doing? Well, I can say more later, but this is the point being one of the guys we're working with. He is, he's incredibly worked for focus for years, worked for much of different groups. And he, like, his life is on the road. And that's what he loves doing it. But I'm kind of a more of an introvert in the sense of I really enjoy time when I'm alone and not necessarily.

And so here I grew throwing into these social situations where a bunch of strangers, everyone's a stranger. You know, sometimes there's friendships that are developing, which is great, actually. That's become wonderful. But it was one day, I remember the first time he asked me this question, is at this family's house. They had a bunch of families over this house. And it was really fun. I mean, sorry, objectively it was fun in the sense of playing games, having food,

and we get to the car and we're pulling out of the driveway. And he's like, so, Father Mike, do you have fun? And I was like, I don't know how to answer this question because. objectively, we did a bunch of enjoyable things. But knowing myself, I would never have voluntarily chosen to go to this place and done these things unless we had a mission to do this. And so I'm like, I don't know.

I mean, I don't know how to answer this question. And so everybody always asked me like, yeah, so how was that? Did you have fun? And I remember talking to my brother and one of my brothers-in-law about it. And I was like, maybe I should have fun. And they're both yelled at me. They're like, no, you don't have to have.

fun doing something you're built a different way you don't have to like enjoy this you can just say no i'm doing what i'm asked to do and i'm content yeah and i was like oh okay good so to bring it all the way back around does it feel like too much pressure to ask that well i think i i think a definite what's your definition of fun it's kind of what's your definition of happy and i remember i got some clarity arthur brooks some of his work spent so helpful um at one point like are you happy like well do you mean what do you mean by happy is that like ecstatic you mean uh smiling laughing or can happy mean content like oh i like that same with fun do you have fun um that was pleasant i think it was pleasant um but like i i'm trying to think even if someone asked me this

simple question what do you do for fun like i don't know i don't know if i have fun like is that makes sense no i get it i think i don't know if this is a similar. I'm going to go on a limb here and you might be like, you don't understand me at all, and they're deeply lonely. But I got a friend who I love and will sometimes hang out or do a few things and he'll say something like, ah, I really, really needed this. I'm like, I want to feel that. I don't think I ever feel that. Yeah. I don't ever feel especially stressed. Sometimes I do. Or especially like, this is the greatest thing ever. But I, people say, I just, whenever I do this thing, I just, I'm like, I want that thing.

Yeah. Is that anything like? Yeah, totally. Because there is that sense of, so my first, I think it was my first trip to Israel. Everything's new, incredible. Went to Copernum and said mass at the church built over Peter's house. And afterwards, walking over to the synagogue and one of the fellow pilgrims was a friend from Duluth. She's a Catholic singer and now she still is.

And but she is like a heart on your sleeve kind of just like emotions are are there. And she walked up afterwards and she grabbed my arm. She's like, oh my gosh, what was it like to say mass at, you know, Peter's house. And I like, well, it's mass. I mean, it was mass is always good. That was and I felt badly like, oh, something's broken inside that I can't have the same experience that she has about this? Or like your friend who was just like,

hmm, I needed that. Right. And like, oh, no, this is just, that's how I am. Yeah, yeah. And so if she said, do I like being a priest? Yeah, definitely. That's nice. I like that.

Oh, I wouldn't. I, if the Lord said, here's another life you could live. If you want, I would say no, thank you. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel too tired to start again as well. No, no. No, it is good. It is, my wife is extroverted and incredibly sanguine.

She once said to me, you know when you're at a party and you just don't want to leave until everybody's gone? And I said, I do not understand the words coming out of your face. And I thought I knew you. I'm deeply hurt. The fact that she would feel that way and then assume that I also felt that way. You know what I like doing at parties? Leaving. going to the bathroom, if I can't leave. And if the bathroom has two locks, here's what I hate. I hate going to a bathroom at a party with an unsatisfying click on the handle.

Hate that. Now I know what anxiety is. But if it has the satisfying click and then the little slide, I'll hang out there for a long time. That's awesome. Maybe not a long time, but just until I hear the hand rattle. I don't know. I should probably do. Yeah, I don't love parties.

I think it's like, I don't like, I like small groups. If there's like four of us and I know everybody and I sort of feel comfortable and I understand the group dynamics, then I can do it all night. It's more when I feel like I don't understand how to play this game. And I know it's not a game and I'm not accusing people of being insincere. But when I don't understand it, it feels like other people understand the dynamics of conversation

and what we're going to talk about. And I don't, I feel very, I just, I want, I don't even think, oh, I think I might leave soon. I just, according to my good wife, I just leave. I just go. She's like, where did you go? Why didn't you? Like, oh, I just wanted to come home, you know?

But the more I reflect on it, I think that's what I. And if the group gets too big, then I just can't, then I have no idea how to interact with that number of people. And I genuinely think, and this isn't a self-deprecating thing. I just think they won't notice me gone. There's a lot of them. They're fine, so I'll just go. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I really relate to that. One thing I like a lot is, at the same time, if it hits me right, like, now I'm your wife, where it's like, oh, I said I was going to leave an hour ago, but this is fun. Yeah. Because now I have something, usually if I have something to do with that, is that takes the focus off of me. I don't have to kind of perform if that's the right. I don't have to entertain.

So one way is if this, I, say, for example, if we, we were somewhere, and all these people we don't know, like, oh, but Matt and I get to have, just have a conversation. Like that would be like, okay, good. Like that would be good. And then it would be like, okay, let's, or if there's, again, something to do.

So when we host events on campus, a lot of times we're serving food. And so we're grilling burgers and brots or whatever. And so as long as I can be at the grill. And people can come up and they can talk and they whenever, because I also, I feel like I'm imposing on someone. if I walk up to a group of people and try to talk or walk up to one person, try to talk,

versus like, you know, here I'm flipping burgers, I have a thing to do, I'm so occupied, and I feel useful. But also, everyone who walks up, I know that you want to be here. Yeah. And if you didn't, you just go over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And there's something about that, again, I think it goes back to, there's temperament, but there's also, you know, our own insecurities and like, I don't know, I think about this a lot, actually, because I find myself in crowds. I have this theory about middle children. I don't know if it's true at all.

But the theory is that middle children fall into one of two categories. Either they're the middle so they have to fight for attention. They're like being the center of attention. Or they're the middle so they hide in the crowd. And I'm more drawn to the second. Like I have some friends who, when they walk into a room, it's, I'm like, wow, that's incredible. they walk in a room with the mentality of who gets to talk to me first.

That's my wife. And she's the humblest woman. Right, right. So not even in a cocky or arrogant way, but just in that sense of like, this is fun. Who first? And I slink into rooms. Like I recognize that, and I don't think it's good. I don't actually I don't think it's good.

I think that it's the opposite of actual humility. It's overly self-preoccupied with like, am I doing something right? I don't want to be in anyone's space. I don't want to mess up. Like you mentioned playing the game. like that sense of versus seeing it as an opportunity to. So what I pride to do is, okay, I'm going to see this as an opportunity to be as kind to the people who are here as I possibly can.

So the conversation is going to be about you, that kind of thing, you know? I don't know. Well, I also think it's got to be difficult with, you know, whether you want to or not, you have a lot of popularity because of the podcast you've done. And I feel this way, right? When I meet someone and they go, hey, what's your name? I'm like, ah, I love them. I don't know who I am because if they do know who I am,

I feel like, oh, there's probably a bunch of stuff that want me to apologize for. I've been doing this for 10 years now. They know way more about me than I'll ever know about them. They know way more about me that is prudent to know. I've probably said things they just listen to that I don't even know if I agree with them. Do you know, I feel quite sometimes quite,

self-conscious. But I tell you this, I mean, I think that, you know, when you meet someone who maybe you listen to or look up to, if they're rude to you, it's double the insult. But I do think, too, though, if you're just kind, it's double the compliment. That's true of me, right? If I meet someone and they're just very just normal and I've been looking up to them for a while, I feel very, so I really try to do that when I meet people. But what's weird, though, is I don't know how it's being, see, this is me up in my head. Maybe you relate to this. It's like, I'm perceiving. myself reacting to them, hoping that I'm coming off the way they want me to react, and then wondering why it matters to me so much that I'm coming off the way I think I should

come off and then I don't know what to do, I believe. Which is, I've heard, who is it, some of the people online who are like psychologists or people who say things like the way to enjoy those kind of conversations is to stop thinking about how you're being perceived and direct your attention to the other way. I'm not telling you that's what you need to do. No, no, thank you. There was actually a follow-up to why I brought that up. I remember because I walked into Sikh, you know, the big conference.

I don't know how many there was at the last one, like 19,000 or something. It was in Missouri or whatever. I know they've split them up now, so, but I remember just speaking to Father Boniface, my spiritual father. And I said to him, if I don't feel as if I need to match people's energy, then I'll survive this. Yeah, yeah. So if people go, hey, and I go, hi, how are you? Nice to see you.

And I can just be normal. I can do this. But if, and no one's asking me to, right? It's like this weird thing that I feel like, I go like, what's up? If I feel like, if I have to do that to 20,000 individual people or 10,000 or 500 or whatever, I will die a very, very quick death and then be back in my hotel room. Yeah. So I think that, if I just think, you don't have to, you can just.

Well, I just, that's one of the reason. I think the most gracious thing, when someone is looking forward to meeting you, the most gracious thing you can do is receive whatever it is they have to offer. And so I remember there was a season where, like at a Steubenville conference, where it was just, it seemed like the teens just want to get a receipt. And so, hell, let's get a selfie. It's just, this is a receipt. Like, you know, that's that as opposed to like, well, what's your name?

Yeah. No, he's just going to picture. Yeah, where are you from? Okay, just, you know, and like, oh, okay, well, yeah, we can do that. And if that's what you want. When it seems like the college conferences and then some adult conferences we've done recently or even little talks, they want to say, they want to share part of their story. And the great thing is, like you mentioned, they already know my story.

Like they already know so many things about me that I just get to hear what they have to say. Yeah. And I really, I genuinely enjoy that. It's a gift. But it's also, I see it as kind of like a part of the mission of to be, to receive someone well. But mentioning when people don't know who are, I had a dinner, this fundraising thing a couple months ago.

And the person I was, the person I was sitting across from, the person I was said next to the guy was like, so, so if I just Google Father Mike Schmitz, well, like, I find some information about you. But yeah, you should. you probably should, you would. And I was like, this is so good. It's talking to Matt, you're Matt, his name's Matt too.

And it was, I was like, oh, this is great. It's way better. Yeah. Yeah, because you often, I often wonder how I would be different right now if I never had done this. Would I be better or worse? Or the same in a different kind of way.

And if I quit now in 10 years from now, would I be a better person or, you know, it's a hard thing to, it's a weird thing. Well, also just, if I, I can imagine that when it happens, it will fade so fast. Yeah. I mean, just when, when the last invitation happens, that it just all goes so quickly. That same young woman that was like, oh, did you just, how was like to say mass? And this flavor, her name is Danielle.

And Danielle was in, I mean, she's great singer, great songwriter. I really love her very much. She was booked always. She was being asked to go to all these places. She went into the convent for a couple of years and discerned out. And then there was the pain of, it took three years. And I'm calling people now.

And they're like, ah, no, who are you? And it was that quick. And she's reconciled all of that stuff in her heart. And it's just incredible. But it is. And how important to be honest about the disappointment she felt. Yeah.

If she were to sort of bypass that and pretend, I'm good, praise God. I don't, who am I? I don't need this. Yeah. Well, like, who am I? I don't need anyone's attention and they should forget me.

Instead of like, the kind of embarrassment, maybe acknowledging your, not saying she's immature, but like your lack of spiritual growth, where you would really like people to know who you are, where you really would like the phone calls to keep coming,

to kind of acknowledge that part of you is probably a more healthy thing and then to bring it to our Lord. Yeah, and she just did it was when I remember she had said that and at the same time I was at a retreat place up in Minnesota called Potchamon Terrace and there was a priest who from the Archdiocese St. Paul, Minneapolis, who was a big deal. I mean, he was he started this this massive parish in one of the suburbs that people would drive on Sundays, drive an hour just to be part of this parish. He had this outreach to just a lot of a lot of growth. He was always invited to stuff. He retired and got more invitations. And then he lived at this hermitage retreat place. And remember the woman who ran it, she said, you know, I think sometimes father, so-and-so, I think, I think sometimes, I think sometimes it bothers him that people don't call anymore, that he doesn't get invited to. And I thought, but that's what has to happen.

At some point, for all of us, the phone has to stop ringing. And again, the fact is, I just go think about myself and think, at some point, it is so faded that literally no one will remember or care. Yeah. And that's just what has to happen. And that's not even, I don't know what it's going to be like. What's strange, though, is that every human being, we all know this, has a podcast. There are, as Dave Rubin says, there are more podcasts than people at this point.

Which means, obviously that's hyperbole, but not far from it, not far from the truth. which means if more people today have a quote unquote platform than certainly when you and I were around in the 90s. And so in a way that applies to everybody. Not everybody. Everybody who's got some kind of platform. So that's interesting, like that my self-worth or my view of myself depends on what strangers think of me

or if they think of me at all. We have to be really careful that we really kind of place that those, people in our lives, like my beautiful children and my wife, you know, I hope that I would say I would rather everything burn down and them respect me and me love them, you know, then compromise that. Yeah. Yeah.

Years ago, I had this conviction. I have 13 nieces and nephews and I, uh, we would have, occasionally have students who, oh yeah, my uncle's a priest. You're like, okay. And I always, I almost always ask them, or were you close? that question of was he has he helped you you know know the lord i mean i'd say it a better way than that hopefully and a lot of times the answer would be i just i mean not really he's really busy and i remember thinking are you saying you're afraid they would say that or that that's what

the students would say like hey your uncle's a priest you know do you know him really well are you guys close or like oh no he's just busy i mean so you know he'd always show up on easter sunday afternoon you know or we'd see him the two days after christmas you know that kind of thing and uh but not but a lot of times not having made a spiritual impact on their lives impact on their spiritual lives and so i remember having this thought of like i don't want that to be what my nieces and nephews say it would be horrible yeah if there's these other people who i mean hopefully i'm helping them um but the ones that have a place in my heart that's so unique. That was like, oh, yeah, my uncle's a priest, too, kind of a thing. I would never. And so

I decided maybe 15 years ago, like, okay, how do I do that? How do I have an impact? Gratefully, I'm so thankful as the director of youth ministry for the diocese. I get to run a bunch of retreats and camps. And so the first half have gone through our retreats and camps. And so it's been an incredible opportunity for at least one week a summer, I get to just be with them and see them as they're like, just relatively with the Lord and folds and grows. And they go through this camp and then they've been junior counselors and adult counselors and adult staff. And I have one of my nieces is at on campus with me for the last couple of years. This is their senior year. And it's one of those like, oh my gosh, I'm so grateful. But then also I have some some nieces

and nephew in North Carolina, who I don't get to see very often. And it was one of the kind of, you know, the top 10, 20 texts ever. The two oldest, individually, maybe a year apart at Texas saying, hey, I'm like, I was just looking up something on the internet. I saw so many videos, and I've been watching them for the last 10 hours. And I just, thanks a lot.

And I was like, oh, my gosh, Lord, thank you for, thank you for that because it's just, yeah, I just. Bananas. So that part of it is like, oh, Lord, thank you so much. Thank you for, those are some people that I don't get to be in their lives on a regular basis. But thank you for using this technology so that I can add some value. What's your most popular video?

I think, White Catholic, not just Christian, might be one of them. I know Bruce Jenner was the first one that had more views. I just remember that because it was slightly controversial. and is there a video that you've recorded that you were surprised it so well um i don't know it's funny i ask that because sometimes we'll post something and i'll go well this isn't gonna do very well but that's okay and then you're like whoa why did that do so well and other things you're like this this is i've got it perfect everything about this is perfect and nothing yeah i don't i don't know um how many times have you read the bible in a year for your podcast

twice uh once okay yeah so we well how come the second time i thought the second time was it the same recordings yeah yeah yeah was it exactly the same yeah okay yes but they just release them yeah so every year you can start fresh in that kind of that kind of sense okay but they don't have the whole backlog there at once that sounds it looks like they upload them one day at a time no it it um i've got this completely wrong so he might he might so what is a podcast so i so There's these things called microphones. And the recorded it in 2020, we're released in 2021, I think.

And so coming up on the fifth year anniversary of it, but you can like on the Ascension app or the Hallow app, you can whatever. So I listen on Ascension. And so whenever I open it up, it's right where I left off. And so it's all there. If I want to jump ahead or jump back,

I want to hear myself read the Gospel of John, just go to that day. But I have to listen out. People jump into the car and you go, I'm listening to me, really gospel of John. No, I have to listen at 1.5 speed at least because or else I, you know how you don't like, I don't know if you're like this,

I don't like the sound of my own voice. And so I, if I listen to it, you've got a great voice. Thanks for saying that. If I speed it up, then I can pretend it's someone else. And you just kind of get through it without. Me on Ritalin. My goodness, you know, what a gift.

Our Lord has really used that. Yeah, he's really used that. And it's reached so many people, Hasn't it? One of the things that I... Were you shocked? Well, I've been reflecting on this lately where I can listen. I have some critiques over my ums.

I think I say um way too often. But I can listen and it was, you know, for whatever, four-ish years ago that I don't feel like I own it. It's like, yeah, I'm so grateful that I got to be part of that, got to do that. but but it's it's it's it's it's it's now it's made and now God can keep using it and I don't have to give it ownership if that's the right way to say it that it that it's if it does well or it doesn't do well it it weighs less because I don't possess it if I don't that makes any sense I think so but it's all done the categorization

is all done. And so because of that. Oh, the catacism as well. Yeah. Yeah. And so because of that, it's, I love the fact that people are listening and I'm listening. But yeah, it's without a sense of holding onto it. That's great. What a gift. Yeah. And I didn't anticipate that. Yeah. I'm really grateful for it because when did you realize? Because I mean, I know that they've done the catechism in a year. They've done the rosary in a year now. But when did you realize? Because yours was the first thing they did in a year. when did you realize oh this could be bigger than I thought

I think right in January right away I think I got a text or messages from the Ascension people saying it's number one like okay no it's number you know and I thought wow okay well I have a lot more to record still so even that I think oh that would have been so much pressure for me

I tend to be very good at sprints very bad at marathons so they would do well never to ask me to do anything like this it was a marathon both of them were and And I'm really grateful for it. I learned a lot. Truthly is a groundbreaking Catholic AI app built to help you know, live and defend the Catholic faith with clarity and confidence.

Whether you're navigating a tough conversation, deepening your understanding, or looking for daily spiritual guidance, Truthly is your companion on the journey. It's like if chat GPT went through OCIA, got baptized, and made it its mission to proclaim the truth of the Catholic Church. But Truthly is more than just a Q&A tool, its formation in your pocket. Take audio courses on topics like the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Eucharist, Pergatory, and why the Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus Christ. Each course is designed to be accessible, engaging, and deeply rooted in the teachings of the church. You'll also receive daily audio reflections, short, powerful meditations to help you grow in prayer and stay grounded in your spiritual life.

Already downloaded by thousands of people worldwide, Truthly is transforming the way we learn, share, and share. live our faith one question one course and one prayer at a time start your seven day free trial today download truthly on the app store what did you learn i learned uh learned how there's so there is a backlog of information that goes all the way back to what i learned about the bible as a child through listening to cassette tapes in high school, to classes in college, to seminary, to, I mean, a huge debt to Jeff Kavens because I remember my first, the first time I ever really thought, oh, I kind of understand the Bible was after I had had a bachelor's in theology, an MA in theology in scripture at seminary, and then went through one of his great adventure

Bible. I thought, oh, wow, now I get, now I get it. So, but the fact that there was so much, it was kind of like a slumdog millionaire in the sense of there was always something like, oh, I remember hearing this or I remember learning this. I remember someone teaching me this almost every day. And just, just that fact of constant exposure and trying to learn and how many people affect you and form you over the course of a life. lifetime and then having to put it out and capture it in three and sixty five days realizing so many of these thoughts are not mine I got this when I was in sixth grade and Mrs. Johnson was teaching us religious said on Wednesday night that kind of thing um and did

you have a limit for each podcast did they say we were no so my my idea was that we do the catechism and Bible at the same time so the initial email I reached out to them was let's do the Bible and catechism in the air that's a lot and they said they I said, great idea. Let's do one at a time. And I'm like, okay, great. And so they, someone had taken all, did a one done a word count of the whole Bible

and then divided it by 365 and said, okay, so each day is gonna be at least this many words. And then they figured it out how to put it all together. Her name was Lindsay, she's genius. I think it took her four days. She went to her apartment and she just said, okay, here's the Bible timeline. Wow.

Here's all the words. Here's all the books. Here's how they can fit. And she showed it to Jeff, and Jeff was like, okay, move this and this. Otherwise, it's great. So forgive me, because I actually, you didn't, did you, I don't know. I haven't done it. My wife has.

She loved it. Did you read from Genesis 1 to the end of Revelation? Or did you read them chronologically in the way Jeff lays them out? The way Jeff does it. And so it's with the narrative books. Yeah. And then with the other non-narrative books. Oh, of course.

Oh, what a wonderful idea. teamed up with it. And the, you know, one thing that, again, I just think of God's providence in this and how we work through Lindsay, who works at Ascension, to do all of this, how much it fit. We do Job right away. So the first month, you're doing Genesis and Job, which sets you up for the next 11 months of, okay, I can trust God. like this is the heart of all of this is we're not shying away from their suffering in this world, there's evil in this world, God is still good, and yet sometimes we have no idea why horrible things are happening. But if I'm going to be like Job, I'll realize that I can still trust him. He's

still good. And it just, it just, it set the tone for the entire rest of the year. And I'm so grateful. I would never have thought of that. My family are reading the narrative books over the course of three months right now. So shout out to Ascension for, and yeah, Dr. Jeff Kavens. Is he a doctor? I don't know, Jeff Kavins, Mr. Jeff Kavans, for putting that together. They have a beautiful, is it lamb skin or some beautiful animal that they're slaughtering to put this together, but it is glorious.

Their premium Bible is really nice, yeah. Yeah, it's really good. I'm very, still don't like the stamp in the Bible, feels like a teen Bible. All right, it's my only critique, extension, I know they watch. So my only critique is that stamp, that I don't like the imprint,

but I love it. It's so beautiful and my wife and I use it and we love it and we're so grateful, yeah. It's really cool that the Catholics got the number one podcast and I happen to Bible in a year and it's not a Protestant. Yeah. I don't think people say that anymore and you're partly responsible for this.

this, right? That the Catholics don't read the Bible. We're like, well, we have the number one. Do you remember that? That's not. No, I'm great, that's a thing. I remember, gosh, and I just think of all of the people that went into that. Yeah.

And I mean going back to when I would listen to Scott Hahn's conversion story in high school, or Father Larry Richards, or who else, so many people that my mom would have these sets of and I just think wow I'm so grateful and we it's a small microcosm of the inheritance we have as Catholics is oh he just in my lifetime the inheritance that I've received from people who are still alive and I think of the the heroes Father Benedict Rochelle who's so influential Peter Craft so influential Archbishop

Come on Bishop Fulton Sheen I thought that's what you were going to say But he wasn't in our lifetime So Flynn Was Archbishop Flynn was in St. Paul Minneapolis I mean Fulton Sheen he was also great But some of those C.S. Lewis

Yeah These people that How beautiful would an honor To be able to carry the baton I mean Bishop Barron's doing it you're doing it Yeah it's beautiful What a gift Yeah

In regard to new Catholics Because you've said that you'd do do you have increasing amounts of men, maybe in particular? I think across the board. Okay, so men and women come and, what advice do you give them when they start getting serious, maybe after they've completed OCIA, maybe they're Catholic and they're reverting? What advice do you have for new Catholics? One thing I always will say is this is if a person comes to, I wonder what you would say about this.

So I'm going to say something and then bad it back to you. I'm convinced, but I could be swayed that if a person comes to the conclusion, okay, I know God exists, I know Jesus is God, I know that he established the church. In that, I also know that he's given us confession for when we have failed, when we've sinned. And if I know all these things, the only weapon the devil has left is discouragement. Like the only real way that he couldn't get me off of the path, the only way he can get me to a place where, yeah, his only weapon left is I'm just, I'm tired of my weakness. I'm tired of asking God for help. I'm tired of needing grace so much.

So one of the things I will often highlight in our OCIA program during it, but also after, and even for all of our students, is that, is that just beware of discouragement because I, I think that's the only weapon he has left. But what do you think? Yeah, I like that. I mean, it's tough to deal with yourself. Yeah. Especially when you try to be good.

I think it was C.S. Lewis who said that, right? that it's uh anyone who has tried to be good realizes how ungood they are yeah or bad they are and so you have to deal with your yeah your broken what do i say your disordered passions that are leading you in all sorts of directions and then you become discouraged at seeing yourself falling so low yet again um and sin makes you stupid it clouds the intellect and yeah i like i mean i don't know i'm sure there's more to be said but i think you're right discouragement is a big one of them yeah and i would say i was talking with what advice do you give then could you say okay discouragement but then then what do you do with that uh so i was talking

with our i my priest fraternity group just four guys yeah and i'm sharing the other night um that Sunday nights are often the worst for me. And we, because we have, you know, Sunday night mass with the students and, and, and, and what do I mean, what do I mean by worse? Worst. My experience of Sunday nights after everyone leaves is I often feel really defeated. and that sense of like, I didn't, I didn't do it right. Like I didn't say it the right way. I didn't have the patience with people making noise.

Or I didn't have the some people walk by after mass. I didn't get a chance to like really let them know that, okay, I see you. I'm glad you're here, Matt, that kind of thing. Whatever it is. I mean, there's all these areas where genuinely I will, after, usually stand outside, bye, bye, bye, you know, talk to people, and I walk back into the church because on Sunday nights, we use a nearby church

while we're on campus. And I walk down the aisle, and oftentimes it's just like, God, I just, I'm sorry. And I just, it's this overwhelming feeling of being defeated, I would say. Why do you think that happens on Sundays in particular? Is it because it's the end of the week and you're reflecting on the whole week

or is it Sunday in particular? I think it's because I put a lot of time into Sunday homilies. And so if it's, I don't think that was, I don't think that was what they needed or I don't know if that was what I should have said or how I should have said it. Like I'm kind of self-critical about that in particular. which is one of the reasons why, as I was sharing it with the guys, I was saying, but I believe that all discouragement is rooted in pride. Because, and one of the guys was like, no, no, but you just want to be excellent though.

You want to, you know, you want to do something honors God. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, all that's true. But also, I believe that all discouragement really is rooted in pride. So I'm discouraged if I sin. Why? Because I wanted to be better. I'm discouraged when I failed to be excellent or whatever the thing is. Why?

Because I wanted to be better. And there's that sense of... And then sometimes it's that others saw me not being good. Yeah, right? Pride again. And yeah, if it was mere... If it was merely like, oh, I wanted to be excellent. Okay, try again next time.

I'll pick it up. but the discouragement comes from that place of yeah i i don't i have i'm in need i don't want to be in need even it's that that that sense of sometimes people don't i'm wrestling with this repeated sin and i don't want this in my life anymore and sometimes it's because i really genuinely want to be virtuous and sometimes it's because i want to be healed of this so i don't have to be so dependent on god's grace like i am i don't want to have to keep asking for help and so yeah i would say that okay if the satan's only tool left is discouragement again i'm not immune to it the remedy is okay i know that discouragement comes from pride so i just have to be humbled and yeah

i don't know what you think um yeah i mean it's surprising to see how many spiritual authors write about this and francis to sales i'm thinking of in particular he says never lose peace when considering your own imperfections i forget what else he says but that's i think a direct quote um teresa vizier on her deathbed at 24 said uh it's not because of my lack of mortal sin that i go with to god with confidence even if i had on my conscience all the sins creatures can commit i am sure that i would lose none of my confidence you know like that's good that that's sort self agitation, hatred, disappointment. I feel it here, hey, like as I interview you or as I interview other people and I think, why can't I get words out of my mouth correctly? They seem to

do it well. Why can't I do it? And then I feel a little embarrassed or something like that. But how do I bring all of that to the good Jesus who doesn't love me because of the times of articulate and just be naked before him? Yeah. And receive his love. But no, I 100% agree that yeah i don't like seeing myself low i don't like seeing myself not brilliant i don't like that at all yeah i want to be brilliant and i want everybody else to think i am too you know something like that yeah golly yeah they're in i i agree there is uh i will tell you on the after this on the drive i'll be like ah i shouldn't have that's so dumb i hope they added that or hope whatever the thing is because because that yeah it's again i just

that sense of where does it come from it comes from pride and the only remedy she's an exhausting load to have to carry like you like because it's me trying to make myself apart from the father that's a heavy load to carry and i can't i can't be myself if this is the truth about me at this point yeah so uh father romano gwardini okay yeah have you ever read his book, the virtues that lead you to God. So the Lord is one of his big, big one. Yeah, yeah. But the virtues that lead you to God.

Don't want to give it away, but I'll give it away because it's so good. Every chapter is another virtue, but not like the main virtues. One of the virtues he has is acceptance. Okay. And it is like, well, acceptance, okay. And he highlights, he says, this is the very first virtue. If you don't have this, you will never grow spiritually. And that acceptance is, okay, this is where I'm,

I am. Like, this is who I am. This is the one that the Lord redeemed. This is one he currently loves. Yes. And that he, and I always, I might share this tomorrow with the group that's, that I'm doing a talk, but I just, I'm so moved by this. I remember, remember the book Hatchet? Do you guys read that in Australia? Yeah, I read it. Yeah. The, uh, so the kid crashes, or the plane crashes, and he finds himself lost in the wilderness. My sister, Amy, was reading this book to her son, Max, her oldest son, when he was, we'll say six. I don't know how old you are when your parents read a book like that to you. And there's a scene in the book where he, the David, what? I don't remember. The kid, he finds himself alone and hungry and cold and wet because it's

raining. And it says something like, and he just sat there and cried and cried and cried. And when he got done crying, he looked up and he was still hungry. and still cold and still wet and all that crying had done him no good. And he knew he had to start moving. And my scissors stopped and said, okay, Max, do you see that? Crying doesn't help.

And so, but it was that sense of, that sense of, okay, I have to accept the fact that here's where I am. I'm hundreds of miles from civilization and I can hate the fact that here's where I am. Yeah. Or I can say, okay, this is where I... But after I've done hating it,

and I'll find myself here. I have to say, I'm still here. So if I want to not be here, then I have to start moving. But I can't actually start moving until I accept the fact that here's where I'm at. So acceptance, Gordini says, acceptance isn't complacency in that sense of, well, this is just me, I guess. No, it's, okay, I know this is about me, but I also know that the Lord wants to sanctify every part of my life. And he wants, there's a destination, heaven, you mentioned before, he wants for me. And I will never get anywhere until I say, okay, but this is who I am right now and this is where I am right now.

and now just that. But who I am right now, that's the who that God loves. That's right. And there's this, there's this. God doesn't love the you that you wish you were because the you that you wish you were doesn't exist. Doesn't exist. And he can't love things that don't exist.

Exactly. It's just big, fat, awkward you. Yeah. Always breaking resolutions, rarely keeping them you. He's not surprised. That's, yeah. There's nothing surprising about your heart and your actions. Not scandalized.

Yeah. That sense of, yep. knew it, knew it, way before you knew it. Knew it, knew it, double-new it. And still died for you and still chose you and still wants you. And that sense of, I mean, just that, you mentioned that God doesn't love the better version of you

because if you vision and version of you doesn't, isn't real, doesn't exist. Also, I keep coming back to this, coming back to this place of shoot, I had it, and then the version, oh, who you are right now is who you are. Yeah, that's good. And that, that, who I am right now is who I am. You want to be or not.

Yeah. This is what, this is what we got. You are right. I hatchet. That's, and it's right. And there's something about that that just, I live oftentimes in a, I mean, it's kind of like when you're talking to someone who will hear me before the back surgery or the shoulder like, oh yeah, I was doing such and such. I remember this so many years ago, one of my first years on campus, I went to attract me with one of our students. and we were watching and I the 400 ran and that was my kind of my race in high school and

beyond and so I timed it just wanted to see all the guys were doing and I had the stopwatch and I looked at the guy and I was like I would have won that race and he looked at me and said today no no not today 10 years ago 20 years ago I'm like no not today but we can hold on to that like well I used to be whatever yeah or I want to someday be yeah whatever, as opposed to, and who I am right now is who I am. It is funny how the advice that we've heard so often, we're so quick to dismiss because it's not novel. It doesn't stimulate us in the same way that some crazy idea does.

Like my wife wearing nicotine patches for health. Look, that's wild. Why's she doing that? She's never smoked a day in life. She's gone down some rabbit hole. I feel like we're always attracted to the novel. I'm not saying the novel doesn't work, but like the meat diet. Yeah, just do that.

like, oh, this is, this is now, this is what'll fix everything. Right. But the advice like, hey, God loves you as you are and too much to leave you that way. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. What else you got for me? Tell me what's the three steps I got to. Do you find that the advice, if you give advice at all on dating and relationships,

do you find that the advice you give today is different to the advice you may have given as a priest 15 years ago? Yes. Yes, I found, I've always been hesitant to give advice. On anything or? On some things. Yes, dating for sure. Because, I don't know. I've done enough marriage prep.

I love it. Marriage prep is one of my favorite things to do as a priest. But I would say there are many times when I think, I don't know. They're sitting across the table for me. And I'm like, wow, this is. And then here we are 15 years later. And I'm thinking, wow, they have an amazing marriage. They, wow, wow.

Yeah. And I talk to people who, I just, I can think of a number of different couples, but one in particular just came to my mind. And I will now have students who have been affected by this couple and their family and say, oh, yeah, so and so and so. They're the best ever. They're so, you know, they invite us into their homes and to their family. I think that's great.

That's really good news because I sat at the table and said, you guys, you don't have to get married, you know? Yeah, it's hard to see. Yeah, to quote Gandalf, not even the wise, the old ends. Exactly. So there are, but there are some things that I would say now, I'm more quick, not quick. I feel more free to be able to have that conversation

of if I see that we're really in a good marriage prep. if, oh, well, they're really stuck on this thing. And we haven't moved forward. I think that when they return to an issue again and again, but there's progress, like, that's great. You don't have to be resolved in a weekend or a week or, you know, three weeks. The fact that you're moving forward, that means, you know, you're learning how to do this kind of thing.

But there's sometimes where I just think, I have to say it. And I'll just say, yes, you know you don't have to get married. What if I just threw this out here? What if I threw out that, June 6th, let's just not have a wedding that day. What would you guys say? I don't want to say it like that. I'll try to not be so abrasive or caustic. What's the most surprising or interesting answer you've received to something like that?

Well, I think what's the most surprising or interesting. I guess what I'm asking is, have you ever seen their shoulders relax and they just sort of go, oh, thank God. There have been times. Gosh, there have been a number of, a lot of times, if, I've not said that very, very often, there is a, okay, let's reset and ask that question. Most times it's, oh no, but we really, really want to get married. Like this is, we want to spend our lives together.

And so my, my question is not meant to say, I don't think you should get married. It's, if you need permission to not, I want to give you permission to not. But if you want to, then you get to, you get to choose again. It's a very clarifying question. Yeah, that's what I mean. I mean it as a clarifying. I'm glad you said that.

I mean it as a clarifying question, not as a, I'm putting up an obstacle or I'm putting up like, there's my vote for you to. It's more, you know, you have permission. You don't have to. And most times it's, you know, we talked about it. We really want to. this is what we want we want to spend our lives together we want to raise a family together like great yeah then let's go so i i'm weird i uh sometimes the way i appreciate my children

is to imagine that there's a time machine that goes back in time but the only side effect is you won't know you're back there this is very andy bernard last episode of the office thing yeah so sometimes if i'm like struggling with my children i'm laying in bed but i just want to go be with my wife or something i think maybe this is one of those times like i have these weird ways of of appreciating things. Can you describe it more? Yeah, so there's a time machine. You can go back in time.

But when you're back there, you will not know that you took the time machine back. You experience it as the present. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how you get back to the, I hadn't thought that through. And so I'll be laying with my son or my daughter or something

and I'll think, maybe this is one of those times. And then it'll help me to look for the nice thing in it. Another thing I do is I'll remind myself there will be a last time your child asks you to do X. Yeah. You won't know when that last time. is, right? Can you lay with me? You will not know. It will come and you won't know. So when that happens, I try to think this is the last time. All right. So this sounds a bit sappy

maybe, but I do this thing with my wife. I don't even know if she knows this or would care because she's just extroverted and crazy. If we're at a party or something like that or like we'll be at a wedding maybe. I'll think to myself, what if I never had the guts to propose to her and now here we are 20 years later and we bump into each other at this party, right? Yeah. I would be so angry with myself for wasting the last 20 years.

Yeah. That's great. I really mean that. I mean that. It nearly brings me to tears. I just think, gosh, because I could have, right? I was dating and I don't know. There was parts of me that's like, I don't know, maybe, maybe not.

Like maybe there's something better I could be doing. Maybe I could become a priest. I don't know. Yeah. But this idea that like, well, what if we just, then what was this last 20 years? Like maybe you dated and I dated and I dated didn't. And so I'm like, oh, gosh, I'm so glad I'm married here. I really am. So I guess the reason

I brought that up is I would imagine when you say to them, you don't have to do this, it would give them the freedom to say yes. Yeah, not just the freedom to say no, but exactly. Oh, good, but yes, we want to. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, but what about like college students and dating? That's what I am increasingly of the opinion that I know nothing about dating today. I used to, I know. People were grateful for my advice father. Now I talk to them and they look at me like, You have no idea what's happening. I would say, well, yes and no, in the sense of I did a wedding this last summer where I had shared with the congregation and with the couple that I rarely, say this a couple times in weddings,

I rarely have an opinion on the couple when they start dating. When I hear that Johnny and Elizabeth have started dating, like, okay, great. I'm not involved in this. I'm staying out of it. But sometimes like, oh, I really hope this. I hope this works because I like those too, that kind of thing. So it's very rare because I see it. They start, they stop.

Some other people, I'm like, great, this is how it goes. This is, so if anyone ever asks me, there was, here's an example. I'm just knowing that I, if something seems kind of weird to be able to, to say, yeah, that's, that's, don't do that. There was a, there was a young man who he, he was dating this young woman because he noticed her, he recognized her virtue. She's a good person pursuing the Lord holiness, but he wasn't physically attracted to her. And he, but he, yeah, and he was, he was convinced that, but if I'm a noble, if I, if I'm noble, etchen matter. And if he were nobler, he would find that.

the most repulsive woman possible who is not only virtuous but not attractive but vicious i'm just no but that was that the mentality i remember thinking that doesn't seem right yeah i don't know enough to correct you on that she should be thrilled when she finds that out and so and so now and it didn't work out which i'm grateful for yeah but it was a situation and and now they're both very happily married to other people who are attracted to each other you know the kind of thing and it's like okay hey, now, if someone were to tell me that, I'd say, that's stupid, stop. Yeah, okay, that's good advice.

If you're not attracted to them, don't date them. Out of this misplaced sense of virtue, right? This is obviously true, and I know you know this. Sometimes you'll meet someone and you're not attracted to them, and then you get to know them, and their personality just, it's not the personality, it's their body, it's their face, it just becomes more attractive. Yeah.

Yeah, but this was one of those where he was like, I don't even, I don't like, the idea of kissing her is kind of like. Obviously. We're thinking of a Josephite marriage. I haven't brought it up to her yet, but she should be cool with it. She's virtuous. But I'm trying to think of it, you know,

there is, you know, it's so strange. Like, are people fornicating today they were, like they were in the 90s? Or are they just watching porn? Oh, sorry. It is yes and no. Yeah, yes and no. It all depends.

There is situationships where just, now you happen to be here. You happen to be, I happen to be here. And so we're going to do all of the things that a couple does without really considering ourselves a couple. We'll do all the things married couples do without having a real commitment of dating.

And that's going to be okay, right? Yeah, I guess. I'm sure. No way that'll end poorly. And so that is a common thing. On the other hand, we have, this is, okay, so we had a ton of people come into the church last couple of years, last couple years, last year was the biggest one at your university yeah yeah like roughly how many 30 uh five five baptisms

30 people coming into full coming with the church and just great awesome we also had more engagements not related in the sense of not people who are going to be but and it's just whoa okay and i mean every other weekend was oh did you hear so and so and so and so and so are engaged like wow okay this is great at you know 19 20 23 and it's wow Wow, okay. So that is kind of a mini trend that I've noticed because it has been just like the number of people becoming Catholic and coming to OCIA now,

this other of couples getting engaged and preparing for marriage right now. I wonder if it's a flash in the pan just happens to be this last 12 months or if it marks something where there's, oh, there's a freedom here. Yeah, I don't know. I've been thinking that 2025

is going to be the best year of my life I thought that I thought that when Kamala lost but I thought that before that too I thought I don't know what it is something about 2025 is gonna be the best year and I think it's been the best year well I

for me I've had a great oh my gosh yeah great year what happened well we moved to Florida because that was well that was a year ago I suppose our children are just in such a beautiful stage

people sometimes ask me like how do you be a good parent and I don't know how to do that but I think you begin by like if you can like your kids it really helps yeah I bet and I just like my children that doesn't mean they don't annoy me it doesn't mean I don't go start you know but I just think they are the best they're funny they're cool they make me laugh yeah there's times I didn't like it I mean when my kids were young I remember wishing I liked it but not liking it and wasn't sure what that said about me I just assumed that because I had understood

the church's teaching on human sexuality and that I wasn't like cheating on my wife or whatever. I thought like, oh, I got this. This is, I will be good at this. I didn't like it at all. And I'd go to, what didn't I like about it? To be fair, we lived in a very remote part of Ireland and our children, one of our children was very colicky,

beautiful kid, but very colicky. And we were up all night. Jason Ever, it reminds me, sleep deprivation is a form of torture, right? And this is what's taking place And so I just remember talking to other dads and trying to get them to agree with me that it was hard, like really hard.

But they were, and I really thought at least one of them would, and they didn't. And I don't think they were lying, but they would say things like this. Maybe, but they would say things like, yeah, it is hard, but isn't it a blessing? I'm like, I don't know. I guess so, but I haven't experienced that yet.

I only say that to counterbalance what I'm saying right now. I don't know, my wife loves little babies and would love more. Unfortunately, we can't have any because of her health stuff. And who knows, maybe the Lord will call us to adopt. But I love the teenage years. I love staying up with their kids at night and joking with them and talking to them. I really like it.

Yeah. Yeah, so 2025 has been the best year. That's incredible. And I also want to go back to what you mentioned about, like, not liking parts of it. That just, that makes so much sense. Because it's really hard. What I said, being young, yeah. Yeah, it's just really hard.

It's just really hard. So why? You're with this woman. And in my case, she was really cool. We like doing all the same things. This is back when DVD shops were a thing. Yeah. We were living in Ireland.

We had no kids. We would go and buy like the DVD box set of 24. Yeah. And we would watch the entire thing within three days. Like one more. And just drink an Irish tea, eating cookies and love and life. You know, basic, my point is, whatever I wanted to do, she basically wanted to do.

It was very rarely that she was like, I don't want to do that. So we would just do that because we loved the same things. Yeah. And then you have this child come in or children come in and they don't really care what you want to do. And that was a lot, I think I was, I became aware very quickly of how selfish I was. Right.

But I didn't want to beat myself up about that either because beating yourself up when you're sad because you're selfish, I'm not sure how productive that is. So, too, no, that, I think your willingness to just be honest about that. So I'm, I'm shocked. I'm surprised that other dads, you didn't find one who'd be like, yeah, it's tough. It's just want to be honest about that.

It's really hard. I don't know. It's like when someone says, I would have loved that. I would have felt so less alone. Did you have fun? I don't know. It's work. And then I remember driving down the roads, listen to Kimberly Hahn.

This is back in 2008 or nine. And she's talking about like, maybe the Lord wants it. to populate heaven with more children. And I'm like, I'm sure that's true, but please stop right now. Because I can't, I'm not in a place to hear this. So I only say that. It's good that people are okay with where they are.

Yeah? Not so that they can stay there, but just so that they can just take a breath and not pretend to be further ahead. That's different, yeah. Or say this is, I'm enjoying this when I'm not enjoying it. I said this on my episode with Jason Kristolina, but someone once said to me,

never compare your inside to another person's outside. And that is so simple, but so excellent. You've got no idea what's going on in their life or their marriage or their family. No idea. Or some idea, but no idea. Yeah. That's an idea by no idea.

Not really, yeah. Dr. Matt Bruninger said to me, he's a therapist. He's like, Matt, I'm telling you, dude. This is how he talks. Dude, bro, dude, listen, bro, 100% listen. People can send this to Matt. You scratch anyone's life and there is shit there. I'm telling you.

Like as a therapist who's dealt with, you know, we're all dealing with stuff. It's confession, similar. Yeah. That sense of, man, it's, like you said, everyone's dealing with stuff. Yeah. And, oh. Do you hate when you realize that you've got nothing good to say to the person who's beat down in confession and you want to be inspiring and you want to give them hope and you're giving everything you got all the fantastic quotes and advice and you feel like it's not landing? So when I was seminarian, one of the biggest fears of being a priest was hospitals.

I grew up in hospitals because my dad physician, my mom was a nurse before she became a state-home mom. So we would go to the hospital all the time. And so it wasn't like a matter of like, oh, gosh, sick people, whatever. It was the experience of like when we accompanied my dad to the hospital, we'd go in rounds with them. And so what's that mean? that means he walks into a patient's room and we kind of stand in the doorway or maybe like slightly in the room

and I have nothing to offer. I'm just taking up space. Yeah. In your private whatever. I might be irritating you. Yeah. I don't know. And I have nothing to give you.

There's nothing and he's supposed to be here. My dad's supposed to be here. But I'm not supposed to. And so even as a seminarian, we have a thing called the clinical pastoral education, CPE where you are a chaplain at a hospital for a summer. and it was very stretchy but that was the experience of I'm walking into this room and I don't know if I have anything that you need because yeah I'll have Jesus but what do you mean have Jesus can I

articulate well enough in your time of sickness or pain or loss or whatever the thing is do I is there anything that I can say that I have to give that is substantial enough you know significant and then when I was a deacon, I was able to bring Holy Communion to people in the hospital. And so like, oh, now we have something to offer. That's not just me. And then as a priest to be able to offer the anointing of the sick or confession or communion, it's like, okay,

oh, now I have something to give. So similarly, if someone comes to confession, there is a point at which I realize, you know, I'm gonna stop talking right now. And I'm just gonna remind you of the, reason you're here is because God is doing a miracle in your life right now where he's convicted you of your sin. He's also convicted you that you can trust him. He's convicted you that he loves you and that's why you're here. Those two reasons. So receive that love. Here's your penance.

I think that's great. Yeah, I can honestly say like as a penitent as someone who comes to confession, I know you go to confession as well. So maybe you have the same experience. Really, I don't, and you know this, like I'm not looking for like an inspirational pick me up. I don't even want it. I just want to confess my sins and be forgiven, you know. And I, yeah. And certainly there are times that I've been very gratified.

But it's really more the welcoming attitude of the priest who's not just deeply scandalized by my sins. That's all I need. It's like another human being to look at you and find you somewhat acceptable, you know, not to be totally disgusted. There has been two movements in my, in confession, me one on the one on either end of it the first was um something a priest had had shared when

i was going to confession and he had said something about compartmentalization and he said he said one thing i don't i just want to i don't know how he said it but he essentially the the message that he passed on to me was compartmentalizing your life in the sense of when I've sinned, God loves me less. When I'm here and being forgiven, he loves me more. And he's like, my God loves all of you, not just these parts. And it was like something, of course I know this, but I just, oh my gosh, wow.

I kind of, even though I know that's not true, sometimes the story that's going, that's playing, it's like that. So that was really helpful. that was, you know, a piece of, but what's been striking me a lot lately is in the prayer of absolution. I remember reading something that Fulton Sheen had said so many years ago. He said, a paraphrase, that he said, sometimes priests get so used to giving absolution that we forget that the blood of Christ is dripping from our fingers as we extend our hands over the penitent and give absolution. And so I always think of that. But recently, it's been that sense.

from meditating more and more on the cross and the passion of Jesus and that sense of it's only because of his what he's done that here is this hand extended that this is actually the it's almost like reflection as the confessor on the what it is to be in persona christi like that this is no it's not my inflection as not it's not this you know memorized words it's this is somehow in this mysterious way real power yeah it's like when you say the name of of Jesus and you trust in the power of the name.

And it's just, I just take a back seat and that sense of, like you asked about, do you feel like pressure to like, what am I going to give? I just realized, oh, I've been actually overwhelmed in the last month or so by that, by this, that sense of, you know, through the ministry of the church, that God give you, that sense of, yeah, not, not me. And you say it's just been, it's been awesome.

Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for hearing confessions. Oh, it's one of my favorite things. Is it? Yeah, thank you to every priest. There's so many good priests out there who, as you say, just ministering to the people of God. And yeah, it's so beautiful. I think that must be one of the most attractive things

about Catholicism to non-Catholics. It's got to be. What a beautiful thing it is. Yeah. How do you, what advice do you give to someone who wants to develop a kind of daily prayer rule or a prayer life? You know, it's funny, I was thinking about this.

on the way down today, but thinking about it in relation to, you're going to ask what exercise. And I was like, and I was thinking, the more and more I reflect on habits, momentum really matters. That that sense of if I lost momentum in exercising or in praying, an object at rest tends to stay at rest,

and object motion tends to stand motion in that sense of okay just go just start and it's really hard it's really hard to start i just i and i i thought i think there are some people um myself included who could benefit from hearing that oh it's really hard to start and that's actually the most difficult part i would say the most difficult thing to do is to start and the second most difficult thing to do is to my friend father ben would always say the hardest day to pray is the day after the day you don't pray and so it's just that sense of it's constantly restarting but it's easier to keep the ball rolling so um what i would say is okay acknowledge the fact that it's hard is it's it makes why work against your schedule why work against yourself why not

but sometimes I have these dreams of, okay, tomorrow, I'm going to get up another half hour early and do X, Y, and Z. And I envision the perfect day where I am fully motivated and everything, as opposed to, let's build this thing I want to do, whether it's prayer or anything, or on my actual, who I am in that sense of, yeah, if I get up early, then maybe that's when I should pray. if I really have a tough time getting up early, maybe my prayer starts at 8 rather than at 5.30 or whatever the thing is. And so why not for stepping acceptance when I work with yourself

rather than against yourself? That's something. What do you think? About that or about, yeah. Well, you know, okay, what do I think about that? Yeah, I mean, obviously that sounds like a good idea. I think there's a sense in which we have to impose things upon ourselves, but I don't think we should underestimate how.

crappy we are at sticking to something, at being faithful to a resolution. Like, no, no, you're the worst. Just assume that. And then I really like Peterson's advice. And there's different ways of saying it, right? You've heard, don't let the grape be the enemy of the good or that sort of thing. I like how Peterson puts it. What's something you could do that you actually would do? That's the key that would make your life better. Because if you ask yourself, or in regards to my prayer life, what's something I could do that would make my spiritual life better? That's not a helpful question. because there's so many answers to that. But look at you, you wouldn't do any of them.

Maybe not even for a day, you know? And that's okay. So let's have an honest conversation. Yeah. What's something you could do that you actually would do? You as you. Yeah, you as you. And it can be pathetic and it can be embarrassingly simple.

Just give me anything, right? And I really like starting there. And so someone might say, or I might suggest, could you put a crucifix by your bed? And when you wake up in the morning, could you kneel down and kiss it and tell Jesus that you love him? I don't know if I could do that. What could you do, you lazy bastard?

Well, maybe I wouldn't kneel down, but I could probably kiss it. All right, we'll do that, you know. Could you pray a rosary a day? Maybe, I don't know if I could. All right, could you do the Angelus? Yeah. No, all right. Well, could you do a Hail Mary?

And again, it's not what you, what you, because the person might feel very bad about saying no. But it's like, no, just be very honest. and then start there. And then, I don't know, write that down and commit to it for a week at least. That's a good idea, I think. Yeah, I think that there's, I like the idea of having both,

this is my ideal and then also having, my maximum, and it's the minimum. Yeah, yeah. Like, here's what I could do on the best day. I would love to be able to prayer rosary as well as liturgy the hours, daily mass. great what's you that's your my ceiling what's my floor that's good in that sense of saying okay what's

the minimum so when i was in high school i my minimum was i think it was one our father glory be and hail mary and then i think i would there's a prayer i don't have you ever heard of uh the prayer to spiritually adopt an unborn baby and danier of abortion and i would pray that five times because i was like well if i can adopt one i'll adopt five and so i was like okay i'll do this that. But that was, even on my worst day, as I'm going to sleep, I can pray in our father, Hail Mary, Glory B, and then these five of these short, this very short prayer. And to have something like that, that's just like, this is my floor. This is my ceiling. I can always do this even if I'm the biggest schmuck who've ever lived before I go to sleep. I can, yeah. No, that's

really good. And yeah, yeah. And it was meaningful to me. In that, that sense of like I it was because because this is one of the traps we fall into we fall into the trap of like you mentioned the greatest enemy to go to the the perfectest enemy of the good enough where or I talk to so many people so often they're like okay I fill into grave sin and so I haven't prayed since oh in that sense of okay okay because well I'm spiritually dead I'm cut off of that well again yeah but the Lord's grace is still operative discouragement right exactly and so that sense of, but you realize every time you continue to raise your eyes to the Lord, regardless of your state of your soul, it's always grace. You're saying yes, and that's an act of virtue. You're

growing. It's not as if nothing's happening there. And so that sense of even at the end of the day, I have a choice. I can pray one, our Father, glory, be Hail Mary, Hail Mary and these other prayers or I can just say no and saying yes actually matters and that's I think I think sometimes I know I've been tempted to believe that it doesn't matter because it's so small yeah but it matters and everything another thing I think is helpful to say is we tend not to do things we think we are bad at especially as we get older we shy away from those things that might expose our poverty or our impotence in a particular area. So if we go to prayer and it feels like we're not doing it right,

whatever we think prayer should be like, we'll probably stop doing that thing. So I also give myself permission for prayer to be distracted. And what I don't mean is I go in trying to be distracted. But I accept that I'm weak and I know I'll end up thinking about other things. And that's going to have to be okay. because if it's not okay, then I'll never begin. Yeah.

So I think it's okay to say, well, I'm going to pray. I'm going to do this thing, and I'm going to try to surrender to Jesus, and I'll do it poorly, but I'll do it, you know. I actually really love John Eldridge. I've had him on the show recently. Yeah, I did. Yeah, I've watched it. Golly, man, I've gotten to know him somewhat after.

He's the best. He has this idea of like practicing 1st Peter 5-7, Cast your anxiety upon the Lord for he cares for you. And this idea of how do I do that? Like, what does that look like? And he's got this little formula, if you want to put it that way, where you say, you just sort of turn the posture of your heart to the good God who resides within you.

And you don't get hung up on what that means or how that could possibly be the case because you don't know how plastic works and you don't know how satellites work. So just accept it and keep moving on. And then you say something like, Father Jesus, Holy Spirit, I give everything and everyone to you. And you just sort of repeat that and then you name the things that you just sort of,

I find that when I reflect in prayer, I just sort of go within and turn toward him, that I just sense all the stuff I'm carrying all of a sudden. I feel it. And then I just give it over to him. And what I say to him is, Lord, I know that I'm going to take all this back from you when I'm done praying because I'm an idiot. But right now, just for this 40 seconds, could you just, I give it to you, Lord,

I surrender it to you? I think that's really good, surrendering to Jesus. There's also, and then spiritual reading is so important. I think the two books I would recommend to everybody watching this show and to everybody in existence, at least on Earth and who's human, is I believe in love,

which is like, I think, the death nail for scrupulosity because it's about the mercy of God. And then also Jacques Philippe's searching for and maintaining peace. Yeah. These are the books. These, please get those books. They're so good. And then everything, Jacques Philippe is written.

Everything he does. He has a retreat on St. Trez. Yeah. What is it called? Yeah, I forget. I led our youth ministers through that book. And that was years ago, and I'll still see them carrying it and praying with it. And same with myself.

Jacques Philippe, what a huge gift. He would mention. And so searching for a maintaining piece, I believe in love. I believe in love, Father Albae, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's one I haven't picked up in a long time. I just keep going back to it. I even keep going back to it just for a few paragraphs.

So there's this great line that I, this great paragraph, he says, something like, I'm not telling you, you believe too much in your own wretchedness. We are far more wretched than we ever believe. or can imagine, what I'm telling you is you don't believe enough in merciful love. Yeah. Isn't that nice? Yeah. Because what we often do is we see our wretchedness,

we're ashamed of it, and the temptation is to downplay it or to not look at it, so it feels little. And he's like, no, no, no, it's worse than you think. It's worse than you think. It's just that God is better than you think. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. I'm spiritual reading.

I would, so practically speaking, your floor and your ceiling, but I would say, I mean, without a plan again that you can do without a schedule if it's haphazard for example here is confession on weekends is the hardest for me to pray because weekdays it is built into the schedule Monday through Friday this is exactly when I make a holy hour is exactly when Mass is Saturday okay well it's kind of out I might be traveling might be out of the ordinary and so when when I don't have a plan is the is the worst yeah number one is to have so it's it's like anything just if it's not scheduled then it doesn't get done or might get done I just I just

keep and I come back to this where it cut where it is if what am I saying when I don't decide when I'm going to pray if I say well you know when I get to it or or when I have a free moment, what I'm saying is, okay, God, you get my leftovers. Essentially, you get what I don't want or you get what I don't need, as opposed to the first fruits where it's, the first thing I get scheduled is I kneel next to my bed

and I kiss the crucifix and say, Jesus, I love you. If that's the plan. What a beautiful way to start your day. Why don't we all do that? Or even, you know, the morning offering, that's the first thing. Oh, that's the best. First thing, I slide out at the floor.

and pray the morning offering. Father Walter Chiszek, he was just in the Magnificat talking about this. He talked about how to pray always. And he said, well, you can't, you're not meant to be in this recollected place abstractly. Right. But you can make a morning offering,

which is indicating and saying, God, I resolve every moment of the day. Everything I go through, it's all for you. And so you can remember that. There are various points a day when you make that resolution at the beginning. And I just think that's so good. But it is having a plan.

I know this because I'm convicted by it. Yeah, there are some days I don't give God my first fruits. I give him my leftovers, and I don't think that that is good enough. I think that is a good idea. What book outside of the Bible has most influenced your Christian life? The I believe in love is very, I mean, massively. As I was thinking, as you said that, I thought, oh, wow, it's been so long since I had been exposed to that. How many books?

Mere Christianity has been massively important. There was a season where Wild at Heart was, I mean, just it reshaped and gave me a lens for a lot, a lot of stuff that, again, you think of the stuff that lives in my brain and my heart now because of having been exposed to that book. One of my favorite and most impactful Peter Crave books has been, and not just the apologetics books,

which are really helpful for me, still are. but Christianity for Modern Pagans. Yeah. Which is, about Pascal. Pascal, yeah. And I just, when I read through that, I remember, I remember it was, oh, this is a framework that, again, is just, I look back and think this is a, this is foundational for me. He's, he's walking through Pascal's Ponce. That, that is so critical.

One other books. What about, like, because I agree, I could probably come up with a bunch like, Wild at Heart, Rome Sweet Home, I believe. in love, and then the writings of Thomas Aquinas, and then Francis DeSales, introduction of the devout life, imitation of Christ. What about a book specifically about the spiritual life? And how about this? Because it's too much pressure to say the favorite.

Just one that comes to mine. Well, you had mentioned the Jacques-Filippe book, and there's another book that in my head exists side by side, and it's called, it's green. Is his book? It's, no, it's by, I think he's German, I think he's German, but it is, uh, it's on providence. It's on God's will. It might be called I will be done. Okay. But I'm thinking of uniformly with God's will by Afonza Stiligori, is that yet? But no, that's not,

that's not what I'm thinking of. Shoot. Anyway, guys, it was great. It would totally change your life. If you guys, if you knew of it, you would love it. Oh, there, okay, how about this one? Okay, this the author is he was a British Benedictine monk and you know exactly who he is his name is British Benedictine and no I don't know who that is but he was originally published as oh gosh holiness for begin it's it now it's titled holiness for beginners okay and oh my gosh anyway guys this is another book that would blow you but that would that was one of the ones Oh, it was first assigned to me by my spiritual director. Yeah.

And Hubert von Zeller. No idea. Yeah. So Holiness for Beginners, Hubert Van Zeller. Great. And it was, it really, it redefined what holiness is for me. So that was, that's foundational as well. So I'd say, one, that I can remember the title of.

Holiness for Beginners by Dom Hubert von Zeller. Very good. Yep. We have some questions from some of our members. Michael wants to know, what's your bench personal record? Well, I can't. No, personal record. Broken wing.

Yeah. 315. Middle three plates. Come on. Crystal says, what to do or how to handle when someone you look up to in the faith walks away from their vocation, a priest who leaves a priesthood, a married couple who divorces, et cetera. What do you do?

Yeah. How do you handle that? I think it's okay to grieve. Yeah, I would say it's okay to grieve and not to be indifferent to that. I think there's something worthwhile where it's just to let your heart be broken by that because that's not God's will for their lives. There's not, there doesn't even need to be a judgment that comes along with that, with that grief, but there's just that awareness of,

Okay, there's whatever's happening here. God can still work with this, but it is worth grieving. It's heartbreaking sometimes because it feels like certain relationships or individuals, they feel like they help you, they're like gravity, they help you stay grounded. And when they fall apart, you're like, oh,

that feeling of what else is going to fall apart? Yeah. Do you know, we began this conversation. You were talking about the cause of anxiety being, what did you say, a lot of? When I perceive that the, what the pain of the future is more than liability. Yeah, not the definition. You said something like things are so changing and keep coming and going and here's the question. We're seeing a lot of divorce, obviously.

Do you think we're all, I think we're also going to be seeing more priests walking away from the priesthood, more nuns. just this transitory culture where being able to commit to other people seems like an increasingly foreign idea yeah you know i i we're going back to that question i again i would say i really do think there's that there's a piece of grieving the that the loss the the whatever that whatever that whatever that is. At the same time, I know that my faith doesn't rely on someone else's faithfulness. If it doesn't even rely on my faithfulness in some ways. Yeah. That sense of it's just like, no, this is all comes back to the Lord. And there's a, there's a truth about this that says, I can crave this, not say, I'm not being indifferent to it. Because like, well, it happens

everybody, that kind of thing as opposed to, okay, I understand the human condition. I also understand that God can still work in this. Also, there are some people that I know in both those situations who have walked away from the priesthood or divorces where the story that people on the outside know is not the same as the story in the inside. And it's like, oh, okay, so there are... I've seen that too, where people have been convinced

that this guy abandoned or did this and it wasn't the way. Yeah, and so in that too, I just realized there's so much I don't know. And so, man, I just have to give grace. But I think that the question is, what do you do? I think you let your heart be broken by things that break your heart. And then... Joe Ward says, what do you say to the criticism that priests can't give good marriage

or parenting advice because you're not married? Yeah. I would say that to a certain extent that's not inaccurate, I think that there are people who, maybe priests who might not have a, that might not be one of their skills or one of their areas of knowledge that could be very well the case. I would say, I venture to say that I believe I have something to offer couples in preparation at least because I've seen so many of them and seen the dynamic in so many different relationships, that it's not just, you know, if here's Joe married to marry, Joe would have

that frame of reference of, well, in my marriage, we do this. Yeah, but that's only, I don't know, it's a limited criticism because of the fact that, okay, here's Joe who's going to give marriage advice. What's his experience? Well, he's experience with one marriage. And so, That's a good point. Is that going to apply to his advice to so-and-so, you know, some other couple? It might, but it's also going to be limited. So if we know that every person we're approaching for some kind of counsel or advice is going to be limited by their own experience.

Just because you can't relate to someone's experience, doesn't mean you can't counsel. Or haven't lived that experience. Well, I mean as a priest, right? I think that's what people often mean. Like, well, what would he know? What they mean is you can't sympathize with what I'm going through in this specific situation. But I think I don't know who was who said you don't have to be a horse to be a veterinarian Right and yeah. Well, and there's also like I think the human experience is is one of, oh, here's

conflict, here's, here is sadness, here's grief, here's frustration, here's the temptation towards resentment, here's the need to be patient when I'm being stretched out of my comfort, all these kind of things. I think that if a person is attentive to relationships and is trying to learn, I'm always trying to learn from relationship expert people. Dr. John Gottman is one example of a person who I just think has got a wealth of experience. And I try to bring forward these things in our marriage prep times.

But, yeah, but having to have been married, I don't know what I don't know. Mark L says what exactly is going on with the Pope. He seemed great at first. Then there was a mass in the Vatican which featured a rainbow pride. cross I'm I'm confused yeah well first of all like why does the Pope have to be great we pray that he will be great we encourage him to be great but I don't know I would what do you think oh whoa I went nuts

I almost knocked over to my coffee and this microphone okay so what I say um A I saw the cross the rainbow cross is horrible and I thought it is highly likely that he had no idea what was going to be in this procession. I was just, I mean, the number of times where something happened, I think you're at the Pope for Pete's sake, like that sense of, did they run every idea by you? Or just say, okay, you're going to come in, you're going to sit over there,

and then we're going to have this event, whatever the thing is. So very, very likely that he had no idea. Secondly, you mentioned he doesn't have to be great. I, there was an article, maybe like a month ago, month and a half ago that was, I think it was posted on the pillar. And it's something along the lines of Pope Leo has made as few public appearances as as as humanly possible by any Pope or something like that. It's a welcome change. Yeah. I just thought, even this morning, I got out of bed and I was praying.

And I thought, yeah, because I was praying for the Pope. And I thought about that same idea that, yeah, he hasn't really throwing any gasoline on any fires. He just kind of, and I think about this. And I think about what is the role of the Holy Father? If you go back to Isaiah, he's that peg set in a sure place upon which the whole weight of the father's house rests. Right. So that peg in a sure place, he's a unifier. And so we're meant to be unifier.

That role is a unifying role. And so it makes sense that he has. hasn't, yeah, throwing gasoline on any fires or caused a ton of division. That's why I would want to fill the gap with trust. If like, oh, here's a cross with a rainbow flag, whatever a rainbow on it, that it is possible that he had nothing to do with that and doesn't need to make a statement afterwards because the church's teaching is the church's teaching. And just because you want me to make a statement on something doesn't mean I have to. Clarify the church's teaching. Okay, see the Catechism or, you know, see other statements I've had that talk about marriage between one man

and one, you know, what, I don't know, sometimes when people say, hey, you should say something about this. I'm like, no, no, no, don't, you can make me say, comment on something if I don't want to. You can check my record. I don't know. I can get ramped up about that kind of thing. No, fair enough. Yeah. That could be wrong. Cheryl Lynn says, do you get a lot of pushback about your tattoo and the video talking about it and how do you answer it i have seen some who argue that all tattoos have an element of the demonic i even know what that means yeah why do they make that argument great question i'm sure you've thought about well so i i because people have shared with me a clip where uh i've a good very very good

and i've heard that he is one of the most who you're talking about i don't he doesn't mention me by name so maybe i shouldn't mention him by name so but he says yeah very popular uh uh so but he says yeah very popular priest online kind of a thing has tattoo and videos talking about his tattoo. I'm not going to say his name. And so I was like, okay. Oh, someone's talking about you, but didn't mention you by name. Gotcha. And so I'm like, I don't know, if he was kind enough to not mention me by name, I won't mention it by name. But I have heard that he is a fantastic exorcist who has an exorcist I know has said that he is, he is one of the most systematic and intelligent, like really, really wise exorcists.

And he, in a video, comments on me having a tattoo and talks about how it makes reference to there being some kind of aspect in every tattoo of something demonic. And so I receive that as a, okay, I don't know, because I don't know. I don't know how that works. I don't know why that would be the case.

But I'm not going to argue in the sense that here's someone who knows more than me. So I would say that I think tattoos are largely unattractive. And I don't recommend anyone getting them. Yeah, I'm of the opinion that they're permissible. I have one. But I think they're cringe and everyone should stop because we've gone way too far. Yeah, yeah.

I saw this meme and it said, nobody. And then every, you know, 30-year-old woman, just floral arm tats. It's like, we've got to stop. I really think Gen Alpha will find them cringe. Probably. Because we've really, really overdone them. I mean, you haven't. You have the one.

Yeah, yeah. But I, yeah, I, if anyone asks my opinion, which they don't need to, I think tattoos are largely unattractive. And I said it in the first video I made on tattoos, where I quoted Kim Kardashian, who doesn't have any tattoos. And they asked her why. And she said, you've never seen a bumper sticker on a Bentley. And I think that.

You're like, that's fine. You're a Bentley, but I am a rundown. That's what I say is like, I think, I think I've never seen a tattoo that has made someone more attractive. Yeah, no, I agree. Just my opinion. You're asking. In the question about the demonic part, again, I defer to people who are wiser than me. I don't know anything about that.

But I'm open. I'm teachable. USAF. Smith says, worst video Father Mike put out him why. And he says, to be clear, I love the man. But what's the worst video you've put out? Or maybe one that you put out and then subsequently go, ah. Oh, so interestingly, the very, the first time they ever filmed in the living room, a videographer came up to Duluth. I said, okay, this is the camera set up.

We're going to, how about this? Hey, just do a trial video? And there was a producer at Ascension, the name is Chris Cope. And Chris, I think he went to college on. a golf scholarship. So they said, we always make fun of him for golf. Could you say something just pretend like you're making a video, but just say something, you know, kind of razz him for golf. And so I had something in the chamber and I was ready to go. And so I made this video. It was just supposed to be for Chris. And somewhere in I think the first year or two, someone said,

hey, let's publish that one. And where I say like golf's not a sport, this whole kind of thing. And people still can find it. And I will still get people who are angry at me. And I was just just privately razzing. And you had no idea they were going to publicize that. Yeah. And I don't care that they do because I have my, you know. And do you agree with what you said about golf?

Well, so I was at a golf tournament this at the end of the summer. And they were like, okay, we want to have a dinner where you give a talk to the, to the players. And at one point, I said something along the lines of, oh, yeah, I think we're supposed to meet, tonight I'm supposed to meet the athletes. I mean, not the athletes. They're golfers, the players. And just a joke. Just like, I wouldn't call NASCAR drivers, athletes,

although what they do is physically taxing. I wouldn't necessarily call ping pong players, athletes. Although I do is, demands a lot of physical skill. And I don't know if I'd call golfers athletes, even though what they do, requires a lot of physical skill. I love when people... But I only say that for humor purposes.

Okay. I only say that for humor purposes. I love when people are into stuff. Yeah. I love when people are really into a thing. I like getting caught up in the thing that they're really into. You know, so when I was at Catholic Answers, Jimmy Aiken was really into comic books.

I don't know if I was, but... You're right next to comic store. Yeah, you should check it out. It's good. I might. People are going to piece together where we are. I mean, there's the coffee cup. It's the comic book store. We're going to need full-time... Oh, shoot, there is. Yeah. I didn't see that. Yeah, I just, I'm like, okay, I want to

get it. I want to know why you're super into this thing. Even if I don't like it, I will like that you like it. Yeah. I've tried getting into golf. I like the idea of it. I hate it so much. Yeah. I, I... No doubt because I'm so bad at it. I've regularly said that my parents had a magnet on the fridge that said golf is a wonderful walk spoiled by a little white ball. Okay. And yeah, the last time I went golfing, I didn't golf. I was, my family would, they would go to mass have, we'd have, you know, brunch at the house. And then occasionally it would be, who wants to go golfing?

There was this, there was this really cheap golf course right down the road from us. Yeah. Like nine bucks for nine holes. It was amazing. And the last time I was, I said, well, I'll go. but I'm not going to play. I'll just walk with you guys. And my mom said, she's like, no, you have to play.

Or she can't go. And I said, well, I'm not going to go. And then she capitulated and I got to go. And so I'm walking and having a great day. It was sunny out. It was beautiful. I got to, I was at peace. I got to walk with my family.

The eighth hole, second and the last hole, he only played nine. I said, well, just let me a driver. I'll just, I want to strive off the team. Lined up, hit the ball. Immediate, like just huge slice. instant rage like just in and i'm not playing there is no reason why i shouldn't have sliced it doesn't even matter that it's sliced i'm going to go pick the ball up anyways and i'm like that's why i can't play so it's not a matter of the game being bad it's a matter of me and my own

broken heart i think it was it was mark twain who said a good walk spoiled yeah that's it must be it i love that so i don't know if it was twain on it but i think it was a good walk spoiled yeah that's how i thought that way about sport too i could never see myself getting into sport I love that people are into it. I think it's a beautiful activity that brings people together, but... When you say sport, what do you mean? Any sport at all.

Okay, yeah. Like cheering for sports? Yeah, that's what I mean. Not playing them, watching them. Yeah. So if you said to me, Matt, there's an NBA game on tonight, I'm pumped, you want to come watch it? I don't know if I would because it's kind of getting late.

But usually I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I'd love that. Or even if someone said, you know, we're getting up at 3 in the morning to watch this soccer game. And people, if they were excited, I will want to join them. Yeah. But I can't bring myself to watch sport on my own. A couple weeks ago, Sunday night mass,

I got a text from one of the priests living in the church rectory and said, hey, after mass, a bunch of people are watching WWE if you want to come over. And they've asked before, and I've never gone. And I was like, you know what? Yeah, sure. So I went over afterwards and they had a bunch of people in this space. And they go to the arena.

Like, that's the kind of folks. They actually go there. It's the level we're dealing with. And I walked in, and I walked in right as Logan Paul and John Cena were going to have, like, the main event for the night. And I sat down at 30 minutes. I was like, this is awesome. They, these big fans were like talking and they were hardly watching the match. I was just fixated.

Wow, do you see that? And they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's how they do it. And then when 30 minutes were over, I'm like, well, done. I don't have to do that again. But it was fun while lasted. Yeah, yeah. The people get, they were going nuts. Yeah, my sister's really into it.

She took me to one of these off, not off Broadway, but off whatever. Yeah, like local. Local ones. It was really impressive how they. Oh, I was, the ability. John Sina is three years younger than me. Yeah.

And he's still doing all this stuff. Logan Paul, even who would just think, wait, Logan Paul? The number of times he did some kind of flip off the top rope and landed on John Sina or vice versa. I just thought, that is insane. I mean, I know it's staged, it's fake, but it's not. I mean, the stuff they're doing. It's staged, but it's not. I mean, they're really flimbing with the air. They're really landing. I just thought, that is, yeah, very physical. Final question. You raised money on Hallow recently for your upcoming project. Someone wants to know how much you raised. And tell us more about what it is you're doing since apparently I don't know much about. Well, we've been, as I mentioned, I've been on campus for 21 years. It was my 21st year. And we've been all of our, you came up.

yep um all of our stuff's out of that little house we have the the two car garage that's our daily mass chapel and and then we go on campus for sunday mass and since covid we go down the road for sunday evening mass at a church but there's a long story to it but during covid just we've been looking for for land to maybe god willing we could build our actual church actual student center someday and no there's there's no land anywhere. There was one man who had been collecting a lot of properties on our block because he wanted to build a big apartment building with retail on the ground floor.

And he had asked to say, hey, if you sell me your house, you can have as big a space in my building as you want. It was really generous of him. But I'm like, we should probably have a shit of our own building, that kind of thing. And so during COVID, I found out he moved to Florida. And we didn't have a bishop for like a year and a half. Somewhere during this, I reached out and said, hey, I heard you move to Florida.

I'm not sure if you're still interested in that project. But if you're not, we'd love to buy some properties from you if we can. And back and forth, back and forth. The day we got a bishop, he reached out and said, talk to my business partner. We don't want to sell off any properties, but we will sell you the entire block for the X amount of money. It's like, oh my gosh.

So went to my bishop's ordination. Afterwards, I met him there and sent him an email saying, Dear Bishop, congratulations, son your ordination. Anyway. Let me tell you a story, yeah. And told him the whole thing. and he was like, let's go. And so we ended up buying the O'Block.

And for the last two years, we've been trying to raise money to be able to build our own chapel and student center. And it's been, the people have been so, so incredibly generous. Wow. So we have, I mean, the two co-chairs of the campaign are Alex, Jones from Hallow and Jonathan Strait from Ascension. Yeah, wow.

These people who have been, they've been so helpful to us and to get the word out. And so at one point, Alex said, well, they, as a company, had committed a million dollars to the project. And so they had a bunch of people on their team create this way, this function in the app where if someone wanted to, they could donate through the app and they, and a Hallowood match to million. So they threw that, that giving, I think they raised 2.8 million. Oh my goodness. for the project, which is incredible, incredible. Alex is gonna give 2.8 as well, I hope.

Well, they match up to a million. So it was, they, that's incredible. They raised at 1.8 and they match to a million. So we have enough to build the building now. So 30 million, we have 30 million that people have, have donated, which it's just, it's insane, it's incredible, so generous. But we also know this, we also know that

we could build a church, a student center, And then in 25 years, things need to be replaced, roofs, you know, boilers, all these kind of things. There is actually a statistic that says that you're gonna need, for whatever price you paid to build the building, you need 3% of that every single year just to maintain the building. And so what we're doing now is we're on the second half

of the project, which is funding the building. So we're paying for the building, but also wanna fund the ministry. So the initiation or the initiative right now is to raise 20 million for an endowment that would be able to keep the ministry in existence in perpetuity and so that that sense of being able to say okay if we do this now there will always be a place where college students in deluth will have a place where they you know our motto is we want a place where people are seen known and loved uh not only seen

known and loved by each other but know that the lord sees and knows and loves them because that's that's the the plate, right, the reality of college students says you leave wherever you were raised where people actually care about you and know who you are. You go to a place where no one knows you, no one cares about you, no one loves you. And so to create a place where it's a home away from home where, no, here at least, even if in the hallways you're walking through and just like you're invisible, this is the place where you're seeing known and loved. And so we want to be able to the next priest and the priest after me and the priest after him will not have to travel the country like I've been doing for the last two and a half, three years. I'm trying to raise

money, but it's just like, they could just be home and be a spiritual father to those students on campus. And so it's a big project, obviously, but that's what we're doing. Where do people go to donate? A bulldog catholic.org. Bulldog Catholic. Yeah, so UMD, the mascot is the Bulldogs. Yeah. And so we're bulldogcatholic. And then there's like a video, tells the whole story. And even that, it's been remarkable. The number The amount, I have been overwhelmed by generosity by people. For example, not only people who have said, hey, I've never been to Duluth, but I believe in this project.

And so I want to, you know, support it. But also the video, the videos we have are, are, we're done for free. So there's a man named Benedict. Benedict is a freelance videographer guy who, you know, makes videos and things. But he had come up to Duluth. His wife works for Ascension and got a bunch of footage and then took the time to just, I'll do this for you guys. And just made this incredible video.

Well, you have been such a, I mean, I know it's awkward to say it in front of you, but you have been such a blessing to so many folks. I'm sure people are just honored that they can give back. Well, I think so. I mean, I think in some ways that's, that seems to be the case, that sense of people. saying this has been a this was a real help for me or for my family and so thank you but you know sometimes you could you could just say thank you for the people being so sacrificial in yeah in

financially or so praying for us that's that's been a necessity because it's a big project and it's kind of my hope and my hope and my prayer is that the this is the last 11 month push and that and within the next 11 months will have a be fully funded which would be a huge gift, because then I get to stay home and be with the students. Will the church look like a pizza hut? I'm thinking more Costco. Okay. Great.

Please make it be beautiful. No, that's the intention is that it's, uh, it's why it costs so much. Like, why does it cost so much? Well, do you want it beautiful or not? It needs to be beautiful. And so that's the. Yeah. And you have a new podcast.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we partnered up with this group called the Catholic Initiative, who are, see, one of the, they are, this is really, I think it's pretty remarkable because I've been so convicted for many years ever since I was 16 on Matthew 25 on the spiritual or corporate works of mercy. That sense of I was hungry and you fed me.

I was naked and you clothed me. And I just think, man, what are we doing? Am I, what am I doing this? And I know that in some areas, like I'm trying to do what I can, but you know, you just feel so limited. But one of the things we're doing, so Catholic initiative, their mission is

there are so many fruitful ministries in the church that aren't able to do the work that they're called to do because they're having to fundraise. So here is a basilica in Detroit that is a thriving parish, but it's falling down. It's the oldest, second oldest, second oldest basilica working basilica in the country. I think only to St. Augustine,

Florida and but they're in a population that could never afford to renovate this this basilica and so they're like okay well how can we help that that's and it's not just a church that needs to be abandoned it is a thriving parish yeah it can't afford this there is a high high school in chicago that is doing incredible work but they can't afford this and here we are we're the third project and here we are this campus ministry in deluth that uh we're bearing fruit but we need to before this. And so they partnered with us and the other ministries in their vetting and praying about how they can help. And so this podcast is, it's kind of drawing attention to the work of Catholic initiative. But it also is highlighting the fact that there are people among us who are

just ordinary people who are living out the corporal works of mercy. And so I've been able to try to do what you do, which is really hard on your side. It's really, it's easy when you have questions and you can ask me questions. I go, oh, here's what I think about this. To come up with the questions, I'm like, this is a muscle that I've not. Oh, you're interviewing people. I'm doing interviews of people who are.

So I got to interview with Father John Ricardo. Oh, wow. On just healing the brokenhearted. He's an incredible guy. Lou Holtz got to talk to him about raising the young into saying, how do you form the young? There's a couple more people that are coming on the pipeline. There's incredible stories of how are you being the hands and feet,

the face and heart of Jesus in the world. And so the podcast is entitled, called. And there's just conversations with people. Again, I don't know how to do what you do very well. So it's called, called, called, and it's with Ascension. Yeah, so Catholic Initiative is a partner with Ascension because Ascension, you know, know how to do the digital stuff pretty well. Gosh, I'm so excited to learn how many people must have learned how to pray the Holy Rosary

or are praying an hour because of the podcast. Yeah. Father Mark Mary. Yeah. What a guy. I just keep thinking the, because the Bible in the air and the rosary in a year, some of people asking, what is the, you know, actually people are like, you should, I bet you're jealous of Father Mark Mary. I'm like, okay, here's what I think. I think the Bible in the ear taught people how to listen to God's voice, how to hear God talking to them. I think the rosary in a year is teaching people how to speak to God. So first is how to hear God. speak to us and the rosary in the year,

I think is teaching so many people how to pray. Has it maintained? It's, uh, I don't know, I hope so. I think it's doing really well still. Yeah. Because I think, again, regardless, think of all the people who are praying because of Father Mark Mary.

Yeah. Just they, they are racing their eyes. I love the rise of the renewal. Yeah. All right, you, okay, so the bishop comes to you tomorrow. God, no, God comes to you tomorrow. And he says, all right, I want you to join a religious order. Who would you join?

That's a good question. And you have to pick one, God says, and you're not allowed to question me. about any details so i go one of two ways no he only gave you one option no i go one one is uh cloistered and just go away yeah and just be away which is very attractive very attractive very just you look in you're like very oh gosh it's it's it's really it is it is uh that's so so so attractive the other would be probably well salt or CFRs yeah CFRs that's a beautiful order isn't it yeah yeah and yeah both both they are they're kind of

like the Rangers and the Green Brays they're like the special ops of the church I think the CFRs and sold not that anyone's asked me but I think I'd that I'd like to join the Wyoming. What's that traditional Carmelite order in Wyoming? I don't know. Well, it's that one. So that sounds. Is that where to be?

Yeah. Cloistered? Yeah, but see, we can't have you cloistered. This is what John Paul II, remember? He tried to join the Carmelites. Like, we need your voice. Huh. Get back out there.

That's what they'd say to you. Thank you very much. Thank you. I do not like traveling at all. and so thank you for going through all of that to be here. No, it's wonderful. It's actually, this has been a long time coming because. Yeah, thanks.

Yeah, you were kind enough to come back on that show brilliantly titled The Matt Frad Show. I think it was cool. Was that what, is it called then? Was Matt Fred? I think so. Wasn't Pines? I don't want to talk about it.

It makes me uncomfortable. Wait, is it the same? It's the same. We merged them because it was too hard, spinning two plates. Yeah. No, I, I, I, every time you've asked, I'm like, I want to, but I look at the calendar and like,

there's no way to be able to do it. I get it. All right. God bless you. Thank you. God bless you and your family. Thank you. Everyone listening.