Pints With Aquinas - Accidentally Agreeing with Calvinist TikToks | Dr. John Bergsma | Last Call Ep. 21

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

It’s Last Call, Dr. John Bergsma is back to respond to Calvinist TikToks and explain where Catholic theology agrees and diverges from the five points of Calvinism. Pints: Last Call Ep. 21 - - - 📚Resources Mentioned:  The Gospel of John Course by Dr. John Bergsma: https://stpaulcenter.com/ Truthy 30 Day Free Trial: https://get.truthly.ai/TlbX/MATT30 - - - Today’s Sponsors:  Seven Weeks Coffee: Go to https://sevenweekscoffee.com/PINTS and save 15% forever when you subscribe. Use code PINTS for an additional 10% off your first order and a free gift. Relay:  Don’t settle for secrecy when freedom is possible. Go to https://joinrelay.app and enter code PINTS for a 7-day free trial. PreBorn: Families are where we first learn how to love and be loved. When we invest in families, we’re not just helping people today, we’re shaping future generations.Dial # 250 and say "BABY" or visit https://preborn.com/PINTS. - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠ 📲 Download the free Daily Wire app today on iPhone, Android, Roku, Apple TV, Samsung, and more. - - - 📕 Get my newest book, Jesus Our Refuge, here: https://a.co/d/bDU0xLb 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mattfradd.locals.com/support⁠⁠⁠⁠ - - - 💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas⁠⁠⁠ 🎵 TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas⁠⁠⁠ 📚 PWA Merch – ⁠⁠⁠https://dwplus.shop/MattFraddMerch⁠⁠ 👕 Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com - - - Privacy Policy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/privacy⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The grill is shot. The chairs are held together by optimism. And what happened to the rug? Sounds like your outdoor setup is not ready for patio season. Fix it all with Wayfair. Shop Wayfair for grills, rugs, furniture, and more. With 20 million five-star reviews, room of choice delivery, and experts set up on qualifying orders, it's never been easier to do more for less.

Get 10% off your first eligible purchase. Hurry to Wayfair.com or download the app now. I'm Keana and I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business. But Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use.

It's like I can't stop. I'm addicted. Start your free trial at Shopify.com. As I said, God is a gentleman. He would never make someone do something they don't want to do. Have you ever read the story of Jonah? So there's a coincidence of our wills with God's wills. I don't think it's helpful to see God's election of the elect as him overpowering our will with his,

but rather wooing us towards himself. Dr. Bergson, I thank you very much for being on last call. Today, I'm going to have you respond to Calvinist. TikToks, but people should know that you were once a, what? It was. A Calvinist pastor. Yes, absolutely. In a very, very strict branch of Calvinism, in fact.

So, yeah, it should be interesting. So for those at home before we get into these, what is Calvinism and how much can Catholics agree with Tulip, say? Okay. Calvinism is a Protestant Christian tradition founded by John Calvin, thus the name. name. It is a system of Protestant Christian theology that is quite focused on the idea and the reality of God's predestining persons for salvation or damnation. And so Calvinism tends to be, it can obsess about this kind of doctrine and discuss it quite a bit. And among Calvinists, there's

many shades of different approaches to how exactly to understand God's predestining activity. But actually, it's not even the predestinarian aspect of Calvinism that causes so much difficulty with the Catholic Church. It's other aspects of Calvinism, like the rejection of church authority, solo scripture, the rejection of the sacraments. And then, you know, from my perspective, and I think from as a Catholic perspective, the problem with Calvinism is it majors in the minors and neglects the majors. So the core of the faith ought to be the sacraments,

the visible office bearers of the church, the visible unity of the church, the moral life, etc. But in Calvinism, those things get pushed to the periphery and what occupies the center is these debates about, you know, speculation about divine decrees. So it's an imbalanced kind of approach to the Christian faith. Can you lay out tulip for us and show what Catholics can agree with?

Sure. So it's often called the five points of Calvinism. It's a way of summarizing Calvinist teaching. The first is total depravity, which is the idea that the human person is completely depraved or completely evil. Now, within that, there's variety. Some Calvinists take this to an extreme, some are more moderate, but it's like the idea that the whole human person is fallen, unable to do good. The second is you, Tulip, is unconditional election, right,

which is that God chooses out persons to be saved apart from any good thing in themselves. And actually Catholic teaching is going to agree on that. That's very Augustinian, very tomistic, right. And the reason being is to say anything else is a kind of boasting that I'm a little bit better, and that's why God chose me. And so we want to avoid that and say, no, there's nothing in me that marks me off from anybody else such that I merited God's grace.

So the church has been pretty strong on that. So unconditional election is not a big dividing point between Catholics and Calvinists. The L is limited atonement, which is the idea that Jesus only died for the elect and not for everybody else. Within Thomism, Thomas would say Christ's atonement was sufficient for everybody, but efficacious only for the elect. So it's a little bit of nuance there. The eye is irresistible grace, which is the idea that once God sends his grace forth to move you to salvation, you're going to get saved. Like you can't resist God's saving intentions for you. And what do we think about that one?

Well, there's some truth to that. You know, you can find basis for that in scripture, like in Ephesians where it says, you know, those he, those. He predestined, he also sanctified, etc. So, yeah, so you could probably find similar statements in Thomas and Augustine. And then perseverance of the saints is the final, or P, which is the idea that, you know, once saved, always saved. It follows from irresistible grace, you know, that you can't resist it. So you're inevitably going to be saved.

Now, Thomas's expressions would seem to be different than perseverance of the saints because Thomas talks about the importance even of the elect continuing to beseech God for the grace of perseverance. So the idea is even though we've been called by God, baptized, received the grace of justification through the sacraments, et cetera, that doesn't absolve us from continuing to live a life of prayer where we ask for final perseverance. And this is manifest in the Catholic piety, for example, of the rosary and the Hail Mary. Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. That is, in essence, a prayer for final perseverance. What about total depravity? How much can we agree with there?

Total depravity, the church prefers not to use that language. The church would not say we're totally depraith. The church said we're harmed, we're wounded, we're stained by sin, we're sick, you know, this kind of language. But the church would likewise affirm, and this would be in agreement with Calvinists that we can't move towards God without his what we call prevenient grace. So God has to send out his grace to us to kind of warm our heart, soften our heart, to allow us to start saying yes to God. So we recognize that even our initial conversion, even our initial actions by which we turn towards God and try to repent of our sins and come into communion with Him are actually prepared by God's grace in advance.

And that's true to human experience, but oftentimes we don't realize it until hindsight. You know, when we reflect on our own conversions, we look back and we think, you know what, I recognize that, you know, things were, you know, God was sending things my way that was preparing me already. So it sounds like you're saying there's actually a lot we can agree with. Yes. And you're also saying that within Calvinism, there's a lot of different interpretations of these five points.

What did you have to let go of or change your mind on when you became Catholic that you had previously? Yeah, virtually nothing. because I was a single Calvinist. There's like single Calvinist and double Calvinists. And it comes to be... I always was of the opinion that double predestination

was part and parcel of Calvinism. Yeah, but probably there would be some that would insist that it is and that I wasn't a real Calvinist. But that was a debate within Calvinism. And in my tradition, it came down to what was called superlapsarian or infrolapsarian, which had to do with did the order of God's divine decrees, you know, before all time. I thought it was all

silly because how can you have an order of decrees before all time, right? And I found this way to abstruse and speculative. Nonetheless, within Dutch Calvinism, infallapsarian tend to be like a single predestination where God elects the saved and leaves the rest of their own devices, you know, typically means they're not going to be saved. Delo predestinarianism is God elects the elect and he dams the damned. And so God, like, actively sends some people to hell and actively send some people to heaven. And the Catholic Church would not affirm that. Would it be fair to summarize the Catholic position this way?

If you're saved, you have only God to thank. And if you're damned, you have only yourself to blame? Correct. That is, yeah, that's a beautifully succinct way to put it. All right, well, let's take a look at some of these TikToks. So I understand you have a problem with Calvinism. Yes, I do. I believe that Calvinists deny free will, and that is wrong. Well, Calvinists do believe that men have the ability to make choices.

We believe men are moral agents, and they do make decisions according to their strongest desires. The problem is we're also sinners, and prior to God changing our heart, we always desire that which is in opposition to him. Well, I believe that every man has the power in himself to choose God and follow the gospel by his own free will. Well, the Bible says that the natural man sees the things of God as foolishness. It also says that God is the one who grants repentance, and he's actually the one who enables people to come to Christ. Well, I believe God is a gentleman, and a gentleman would never violate someone else's freedom of choice. Wait a minute, did you say God is a gentleman? Yes, as I said, God is a gentleman.

He would never make someone do something they don't want. to do. Have you ever read the story of Jonah? I first got to say, I really like this fellow. This is the first I'm seeing of him, but he's just got, he just said like a good bloke. Yeah, he is. I've seen a bunch of his stuff. Yeah. So maybe you want to comment on that. I have some thoughts, but... Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, our Calvinist friend in the blue shirt here makes good points and we would agree, you know, as Thomas Catholics, we would agree on most of what he's saying there, versus the guy in the red shirt, he's kind of representing a plagian position,

which is that you can choose God on your own without divine assistance. So the Catholic Church would affirm, no, you need God's grace even to choose God. Yes, you have free will, but due to original sin, you're going to misuse your free will inevitably. And so God sends his grace upon you to warm your heart and draw you to himself. However, Thomas would not say that this happens against the will. I mean, the paradigm that seems to be espoused here is that God forces some people to be saved, like Jonah, you know, kind of against his will. You're going to do this, right?

But Thomas would say, no, God is able to move our wills in such a way that they're in harmony with our free will. And this is not a, you know, all analogies of God's actions are limited, but, An analogy that I use is when my children were little, I could control them by offering them ice cream, right? So I wanted them to do something. I just said, I'll give you ice cream to clean your room, you know, and that always brought about compliance. But it wasn't a compliance that was against their will, okay? I was thinking of a different analogy. None of the characters of the Lord of the Rings seem compelled to make any of the decisions they did in fact make.

Right. But Tolkien was the one making their decisions, but they were in complete harmony. Yeah. Is that good or not? I'd have to think about that because, you know, somebody might think, well, that reduces the characters to puppets of the author or something like that. Let's go with the last frame one. Right. But yeah, so there's a coincidence of our wills with God's wills.

And I don't think it's helpful to see God's election of the elect as him overpowering our will with his, but rather wooing us towards himself. I would say, drawing us by chords of love in a way that we freely consent to what he's doing in our lives. What does it mean to say that a man cannot choose anything good apart from God when we see the pagan philosophers? I think in New York City, one of the, you probably know what I'm going to say, there's a stained glass window of Aristotle with a green halo around his head instead of a golden halo, right?

So clearly there were very virtuous people who lived prior to the time of Christ. and I know people who wouldn't espouse to be Christians, and yet they seem to be acting sometimes better than Christians. How do we make sense of that? I would say that's God's grace worker in their lives. God's grace is, God's action is not constrained to the visible church and the visible sacraments. We are bound by those realities. But God has a sovereignty to be able to touch people, you know, outside the usual bounds. So is it true that we cannot choose anything good? unless, perform any virtuous act?

Ultimately, yes. You could quibble about, well, any virtuous act. My own position would be we could not perform any purely virtuous act. We might be able to perform in our own free will acts that exhibit virtue, but are still marred by imperfection of motive. And so in order to be like 100% pure,

from top to part and we need the assistance of God's grace. Okay. All right, let's look at the next one. So one of the worst parts about traveling, at least for me, is the coffee. You wake up at 5 a.m. for a flight. You stumble into the hotel lobby, hoping for just something decent. And instead, you handed a paper cup of what tastes vaguely like burnt disappointment. Then you get to the airport and somehow it gets worse, which is probably why whenever I come home, one of my favorite things is making a proper cup of coffee. And that's where seven weeks coffee comes in.

We've tried a lot of coffee over the years in the frat household. And this is the one that my wife and I keep returning to. So I really like the coffee. It's smooth, low acid, mold-free, pesticide-free, organically farmed and genuinely excellent coffee. But what makes it even better is the mission behind it. Seven Weeks Coffee is America's Pro-Life Coffee Company. They donate 10% of every sale to pregnancy centers and pro-life organizations across the country. In fact, they've already raised more than $1.5 million and helped save thousands of lives. And the name itself is beautiful. At seven weeks, a baby is about the size of a coffee bean. And it's around that time, a heartbeat can clearly be detected on an ultrasound. So if you're going to drink coffee every day anyway, why not support

a company that's helping to build a culture of life? Go to seven weekscoffee.com slash pints and save 15% forever. When you subscribe plus use code pints for an additional 10% of your first order and a free gift. That's up to 25% of your first order, 7weekscoffee.com slash pints. So I've noticed something about sin. We often think about it in terms of rules. Did I break the rule? Did I avoid the rule? But the deeper question is what kind of person am I becoming? Every choice is forming us. Every habit is shaping us. Every repeated action is turning us into a certain kind of man. And that's why pornography is so destructive. Not simply because it's something you're looking at, but because of what it's doing to your heart. It's training you to consume rather than love,

to escape rather than endure, to seek comfort rather than pursue virtue. And if you're struggling with pornography, I know how discouraging that can feel. You make a resolution, you fail. You promise you'll do better and then you fail again, but you are not doomed to stay stuck. Freedom is possible. And one of the greatest lies men believe is that they have to achieve freedom alone. And that's why I recommend relay. Relay helps men identify what's actually driving their behavior, build healthier habits and connect with other men pursuing the same freedom. Because sanctity was never meant to be a solo project. Use my code. code pints for a seven-day free trial. The man God is calling you to become is worth fighting for. Start today. People really do not like Calvinism. I have noticed this, and I get it. I mean, based upon how it's described, a lot of times I think I don't like that either. But here's one tiny little point that might help discussion a little bit, just of historical context. Maybe the most unpopular part of Calvinism is the idea of predestination, specifically the idea of unconditional

election in which God's sovereign choice of a person doesn't depend on anything in that person, but upon his own will. That basic idea, though not Calvinism as a whole, but that basic idea, is extremely common in church history. You find it in Augustine and in Thomas Aquinas. You can read Augustine, his commentary on John 15, 16, where Jesus says, you did not choose me, but I chose you. You can read Thomas Aquinas as Summa Theologica,

Part 1, Question 23, Article 5. If you want more on those, see the video linked in the video description. The point is, if that's the reason you don't like Calvinism, which is what I hear most commonly, then there's a lot more that you're not going to like either. That's an extremely common idea in church history, and it's not as dumb as it might sound or as evil. I like Gavin a lot.

I just don't know if that's why most people are turned off by Calvinism. I think it's the double predestination, that before you even existed, God had decided you will go to hell for all eternity. Feel free to comment on that, because it sounds like you're probably in full agreement with what Kevin said there. Yeah, no, I totally agree with him.

And let's remember the good that we're trying to preserve there to say anything else means that those of us that end up saved were a little bit better, you know. So I'm a little bit better than other people. By our own. Yeah, right. And so God choose me because I'm a little bit better than you guys. And there's this deep sense in the tradition, which is founded on the reveal word of God and the testimony of scriptures that no, none of us can say that. There's nothing in myself.

You know, in myself, there is no good thing, you know. And that's the testimony of the saints. That's the testimony of St. Paul, of all sinners, I am the worst, you know. That's Teresa Lusue in the catechism, where she says, all my efforts are filthy rags. I want to be clothed in your righteousness, O Lord. So, yeah, so that's the good that we're trying to protect with unconditional election, is that we want to rule out boasting and saying that, yeah, the people that end up heaven were just a little bit better.

What about the claim that we sometimes hear that Calvinism makes God a monster? And I presume, again, it's for that double predestination. Right. Yeah. Well, if you take a hardcore view like God is actively willing some to be damned, then you run into conflict with the reveal word of God, which says that God wills that all men be saved, for example. So there's a general salvific will of God.

So, yeah, you don't want to do that. and like the second council of orange, you know, by and large upheld Augustine's positions against the Pelagians, except for that. He said, no, we're not going to say that. God doesn't, God doesn't, with his active, well, send anybody to hell. Okay. So like you said at the beginning, you got to come down and say, if you're saved, God did it. If you're damned, that was your choice. and in all seriousness, Matt, in a sense, we're all going to get what we want. Either God's going to work in our lives to purify our desires so that we truly love God who is the essence of self-giving love in himself and we're going to want that love of self-gift

for all eternity or we're going to choose ourselves and a selfish love. But nobody is going to sit at the final judgment and say, This is unfair. You know, you tricked me or whatever. No, our wills are going to agree with God's wills that his judgment is right at the final judgment. All right. Let's look at the next one. So there is, ready, 100% guarantee success in evangelism.

All that the Father has given to Jesus will come to Jesus. So someone says, hey, if you believe God is sovereign over salvation, if he's just chosen before the world began, who he's going to give grace to, which he owes nobody grace, then why are you preaching the gospel? Here's why I preach the gospel, because the gospel is the power of God for salvation. It's what God uses to bring his elect people to himself, and Jesus says, all that the Father is given to me will come to me. So I go on and preach the gospel in the most difficult circumstances, and I can be satisfied

when I go home and someone threw the Arby sandwich in my head, or spit on me, or tore my tracks up or whatever they did to demean the gospel. I trust in a sovereign God. I know Jesus says there have been a people given to him by the Father and they will come to him. All right. So why bother evangelizing if it's already sorted out? What do you think of that? Because it's commanded to us. It's part of the Christian life. It's an essential aspect of Christian discipleship to preach the gospel. And you might say the preaching of the gospel kind of uncovers or reveals those that God is calling to himself. And we find expressions like that in the New Testament,

like in the description of Pentecost where it says, all who are appointed for salvation, you know, were baptized that day. You know, I'm paraphrasing, of course. But yeah, so, and the quotes that he had in the video there. So that is true.

There's this mysterious sending forth of God's grace by which even now, as we speak, he's actively calling people to himself. And then he asks us to play a role in that, to be active in his plan of salvation by preaching the gospel so that in a sense it may be revealed who those are who are being called by bonds of love towards the father. So I understand you have an objection to Calvinism?

Yes, I do. Calvin has changed the word all to only mean the elect. And I think that's wrong. Actually, that's a misunderstanding. We don't say that all only means the elect. we say that all should always be interpreted within its context. All means every single person, every individual that's ever lived. That's all.

But what about right here in Mark chapter 1, verse 5, where it says about John the Baptist that all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan confessing their sins? Do you think that that means every single person in Jerusalem and Judea went out and were baptized by John? Well, no. So you understand the first. word all has a specific context and must be interpreted within that context and doesn't always mean

every single individual. Listen, man, my pastor said, all means all, and that's all that all means. So I'm out. But wait, didn't we just, didn't we just? All right. So let's talk about this then. Right. Is God desires all men to be saved? Correct. What is it that the church means by that? And what is that, what is it the district Calvinist would mean by that? And who's right? Right. You know, that's an interesting question. I'm not sure exactly how a strict Calvinist is going to take that if they're going to try to modify and say, well... Well, he already did, didn't he? I mean, he might be a strict Calvinist.

It sounds like he's saying all doesn't mean all. All means whoever the elect are. Must be, yeah, just all means the elect there. So the church would say, no, that God wills at all meant to be saved is God's general salvific will. And then Aquinas would make a distinction and say, you know, the atoning work of Jesus is sufficient. for all and there is a general, God has a wish that all would be. But he doesn't, so that would, that be like God's general will and... Perfect and permissive. Exactly. But God only efficaciously wills that the elect are saved. How do you justify that? It sounds like you're saying God desires something that

won't come about. Yeah, you know, and that's why strict Calvinists say, no, that, that's that can't be and that's why they go with the irresistible grace and and so on um so you know you end up um you end up in parsing and nuancing games with this and um that's why you know i kind of got frustrated with it within calvinism because it felt like we're not going to understand these things on this side of the veil you know uh we're trying to understand a god who's outside of time and we're trying to understand the divine nature with with our limited creatureally intellects. So just like you run stuck with, you know, quantum mechanics, like how can it be a wave and a particle at the same time when it's just, you know, a photon of light. We run stuck with these,

you know, eternal decrees of God and how his sovereign will interacts with our free will, and we get ourselves backed up into some apparent contradictions. So, yeah, you know, within Calvinism, I kind of at a certain point, kind of threw up my hands of this, like, we're not going to get this parsed. Okay. But the guidelines that the church sets up are healthy and give us some parameters about how to speak about this. So, for example, we don't want to say that I'm a little bit better and that's why God chose me, okay? I don't want to say that God's will can be frustrated. You know, so Aquinas would say something like when we talk about God wills at all men to be saved,

it's in the, that indicates a kind of wish or a kind of a contrary to fact. That would be nice, but, you know, kind of thing. But in fact, you know, only those are going to be saved. who are recipients of God's efficacious grace. Summer has a way of slowing us down, just enough to notice what matters. Maybe you're taking a family trip, maybe you're grilling in the backyard, maybe you're simply spending a little more time with the people you love. And moments like that remind us that family isn't something we accidentally stumble into.

It's something worth protecting, nurturing, and fighting for. That's why I want to tell you about John. When John learned, he was going to be a father fear immediately set in. He didn't feel prepared because he didn't know what the future would be like. Well, spoiler alert, nobody does. But through pre-born, John found support and received a free ultrasound. And what seemed impossible suddenly became imaginable. Hope replaced fear.

Every day, mothers and fathers are facing that same crossroads. For $28, you can provide an ultrasound and help parents see their child, hear the heartbeat and choose life. dial pound 250 and say baby that's pound 250 baby or visit preborn.com slash pints why do supporting families matter well because strong families don't happen automatically they grow when people step in encourage one another and remind each other that no one has to face life's biggest challenges alone dial pound 250 and say baby that's pound 250 baby or visit preborn dot com slash pints did you have more subjective assurance of your own salvation as a calvinist or as a catholic and maybe say a word of subjective assurance anyway and how important that is.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, you know, there is a, there is a huge emphasis within Calvinism about do you know that you know, that you know, that you know, that you know that you know that you're saved, okay? And it sounds like a lot of pressure. Right, right. And it, you know, we would, we would end up quoting from first John. I write these things to you that you may know, that you have eternal life. Exactly. And so there's a huge emphasis on that. Now, in the church's traditional evangelism, there wasn't this huge emphasis on having some kind of absolute assurance of your salvation. There was more of an emphasis on repent from your evil works, receive the sacraments, and then exercise the virtue of

hope. So in Calvinism, we did not have a well-developed, at the practical level in Calvinism, we did not have a well-developed understanding of the practice. of the virtue of hope. So that is the case in Catholicism. And so when my wife and I made that transition from being Calvinist to Catholics, rather than this emphasis on, well, I have total assurance of my salvation

because I made this act of faith, you know, and, et cetera. The emphasis within Catholic piety was placing your hope on God's mercy. Not stressing on, not sitting at home, worried and stress that, oh, I'm going to be damned, you know, because I, you know, I mess something up unwittingly, et cetera. That kind of attitude doesn't reflect a trust in a loving God or a hope, a healthy hope in the working of God's grace in one's life.

So one trusts in God's mercy, one trusting in God's fatherly love, and one doesn't agonize about the possibility that, oh, you know, there's some kind of, you know, trick that God has up his sleeve where he's going to deceive me on the day of judgment, are going to show up and say, ah, you know, you didn't check some box. Technically, yeah. Right. There's some kind of technical foul at the end. So, yeah, there's a difference in emphasis in Calvinist versus Catholic piety in that way. Let's talk about St. Paul Center. We've got a link below to your excellent courses there, St. Paulsenter.com slash pints. But tell us a bit about it.

Yeah, yeah. It's a great opportunity to join the St. Paul Center for lovers of your podcast. And I'd like to invite people to get involved in it because we just dropped my Gospel of John course. And I think that people will really enjoy journeying through the Gospel of John with me. How many lessons is it? Because I'm excited to do it now, too. It's eight lessons on the Gospel of John. Yeah.

And I kind of divide up the Gospel of John. based on the sacraments with a little bit of a prolog and an epilogue. And yeah, I think that folks that did not think that the sacraments were present in John are going to be surprised. I think it's actually the most sacramental of the Gospels. It's very Catholic. I know my view is always love when I have you and I have Dr. Hanon. So that means they're going to absolutely love St. Paul Center.com slash pints.

Again, there'll be a link in the description below. Click it, subscribe if you want some amazing non-watered down. fully faithful biblical teaching. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, you bet.