Pints With Aquinas - Answering Every Protestant Objection to Mary (Fr. Josémaría) | Ep. 538

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

Fr. Josémaría M. Barbin, F.I., is the U.S. Vocations Director for the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate and author of Beloved Disciple: Living Out Your Marian Consecration Daily. Based at the friary in Griswold, Connecticut, he guides men discerning religious life while promoting deeper devotion to Our Lady. He also contributes to Missio Immaculatae magazine, writing on Marian spirituality and even the Marian themes in J.R.R. Tolkien’s work. 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early, score a free PWA beer stein, and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 https://mattfradd.locals.com/support 💵 Show Sponsors:  👉 Seven Weeks Coffee – Use promo code MATT for up to 25% of your first subscription order + claim your free gift: https://sevenweekscoffee.com/matt 👉  Truthly – The Catholic faith at your fingertips: https://www.truthly.ai/ 👉 Hallow – The #1 Catholic prayer app: https://hallow.com/mattfradd  💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas 🎵 TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas 👕 PWA Merch – Wear the Faith! Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com

Pines with Aquinas is brought to you by Truthly, which is a groundbreaking Catholic AI app built to help you know, live and defend the Catholic faith. Start your seven-day free trial today when you download Truthly on the app store. How do we know that Mary's our mother? What does that mean? Christians are other Christ. Whatever the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ. So if you get our lady wrong, you get our Lord wrong. I hear a lot of Protestants say, look, I love her. Don't make it seem like I don't love her.

I love her. She's great. She was a good woman. I'm sure she was very holy. But why do we need to have this ongoing relationship with her? Or why do we need devotions and prayers to her? Good question. Immaculate conception.

What does that mean? And why should we believe it? The way we see our lady, redounce to the glory of Christ. Because this is what. The Lord did for his mother. What does the church not teach about the Blessed Virgin Mary? She does not teach that.

Hey, before we get in today's really, really excellent discussion, I've got some, I got a good announcement, a big announcement. Is it big? Is it medium? I don't know. You tell me. I'm excited about it. Starting next week on the 4th of September, over on locals, you can join us for a a 33-day preparation for total consecration to Jesus Christ through the Blessed Virgin Mary. Maybe you've never done it before. Maybe you have done it, but you like to join a community of people doing it again. We're going to be going through my spiritual father, Father Boniface Hicks' excellent book,

The Fruit of Her Worm. Now, you can buy that book, obviously, but all of the text will be available on locals for free. So each day we'll release a new post where we can all read the text together, and pray together. In addition to that, during these 33 days, Father Bonifus Hicks is going to be recording exclusively for us five beautiful videos helping guide you through this 33-day preparation. So if you haven't already, please go over to matfrad.locals.com and join us over there. It's a beautiful community of Catholics from around the world. And that's honestly where I interact with people the most. So we'd love to have you there in general. But especially for this,

33-day consecration. So we're going to, again, start on the 4th of September, and why are we starting on the 4th of September? Because consecration day will be on the 7th of October. What is the 7th of October? It is the feast of the most holy rosary, or Our Lady of the Holy Rosary. So welcome, it's going to be great. And if you're like, what is Marian devotion? What does all this have to do with my spiritual life? Or how could it benefit it? Well, that is what you're going to be learning about in this excellent interview I'm about to have with Father Jose Maria. Hey, before we go, could you subscribe and click that thumbs up? That's a free way and one of the best ways to help support grow the channel. Thanks so much. Father Jose Maria, thank you for being

on Pints with Aquinas. Glad to be here. We'll just launch right into this. Yes. What do you say to the objection that Catholics make far too big a deal about Mary? Yes. Especially our Protestant brothers and sisters, but also some Catholics. I hear a lot of Protestants say, look, I love her. Don't make it seem like I don't love her. I love her. She's great. She was a good woman. I'm sure she was very holy. But what you Catholics say about Mary, it just crosses the line. It's not biblical. It's not historic. It's embellishments that have gone on for 2,000 years. Now she's barely recognizable. Good question. Thank you. And I think any discussion on our lady has to begin.

with a fundamental Catholic principle. The Catholic principle is found in the Catechism, the Catholic Church, paragraph 487. And it says, what the Catholic faith teaches about Mary is based on what it teaches about Christ. What Catholics believe about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ. And what it teaches about Our Lady

illumines in turn its faith in Christ. So there is no competition there. Whatever we say about our lady, everything that she is, everything that she has, everything that she does, flows from Christ and ultimately leads to Christ. And to know Mary, K-N-O-W, is to know Jesus because she magnifies the Lord. And when we delve into her mystery, we see the great things that the Almighty has done for her. So there is no competition there, you see. I think that's the basic foundational principle.

Catechism, the Catholic Church, paragraph 487. I heard somebody who must have been a Catholic, talk about these two different views of God. And they said, okay, so imagine you're going into this, the throne room where the king is, and the king in this analogy would be God. and this might be unfair, and so our Protestant listeners can let me know. But you go into one throne room, and there's God upon his throne, but there's nothing else in this room, because the last thing we need is anything else to draw our attention away from the king.

You go into the Catholic throne room of God, as it were, and there's tapestries and beautiful individuals and all sorts of pomp and circumstance. It actually doesn't detract from the king. It gives him more glory. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. St. Maximum and Colby will say the same thing. Do not look for the king outside of his castle, who is the Blessed Virgin Mary. That's a great line. I've never heard that before. Yes. All right. Did you struggle with Marian devotion at any point in your life? Have you always been a Catholic? So I'm Filipino, so I'm Cradle Catholic. And we love the Blessed Mother. So I really did not have any struggles loving our people.

our lady, it was more insufficiency or lack of understanding of her greatness. So it was a gradual understanding of the beauty of our lady. I think a lot of our defensiveness that Catholics sometimes exhibit is just a response to the many objections we hear. In other words, if we were raised in a culture, I don't know if you were raised in this sort of culture where you didn't encounter those objections, you wouldn't be in any way defensive. Exactly. It might be like if you were raised in a heavily Islamic country where people were continually telling you you were a polytheist for believing in the father, son, of the holy spirit. You might come to like downplay that aspect of your faith because

you are secretly afraid that that was in fact what you were. Anyway, so I love Louis de Montfort's approach at the beginning of true devotion. I love that he begins by saying, I affirm with the whole church, right? And so maybe I'll ask you, and here's why. I think sometimes before you say what you mean, it can be helpful, so as not to be misunderstood, that you begin by saying what you don't mean. And I think De Montfort does this, right? So if you were talking to a Muslim, you might be like, all right, listen, whatever you think I'm saying about the Trinity, it's not that there are three gods. And if you believe that I mean that, now I can explain to you what I do mean, and you can be sure that whatever I say or however you interpret me,

it cannot mean there are more than one God. There's more than one God. I think there's something similar we can do with the Blessed Virgin Mary just so people can go, okay, what is it you're not saying? And then we can say what we are saying. Exactly. What does the church not teach about the Blessed Virgin Mary? She does not teach that she is God.

She is equal to Jesus. All of these are misunderstandings of who our lady is. And again, that's why we go back to that. Catholic principle. Whatever the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ. So if you get our lady wrong, you get our Lord wrong. How so? If you get our lady, so for example, this is the classic example in the history of the church, theotokos, the theotokos. There was a misunderstanding, or rather a heresy, a Christological heresy, that said and affirmed that our Lord is only, so there's two natures and two persons.

And our lady was only Christo Tocos, the Christ bearer. And only when the Council of Ephesus affirmed the divine maternity was the identity of Jesus Christ fully understood and grasped in its fullness of truth. So our lady safeguards the identity of Christ. St. Cyril of Alexandria, I believe it was, called her the scepter of orthodoxy. Her very identity, her being, her essence safeguards the identity of Christ. Yeah, I think it was Tim Staples who said, who's an excellent Catholic apologist, convert from Protestantism. And he said, if Mary is not the mother of God, to whom did she give birth? And that sort of just goes to show your same point there.

Exactly, exactly. All right, well, okay, why can't it be the case that we get Mary right? But why do we need to have this ongoing relationship with her? Or why do we need devotions and prayers to her? Similar to Joseph. I mean, the church gives, obviously, great honor to St. Joseph. people pray to St. Joseph. But it's not as intense as this, the Blessed and Virgin Mary.

I mean, so similar objection could be made. You can say, hey, in order to understand Joseph, you need to understand Jesus. And, okay, fair enough. We've understood Joseph. Now let's stop talking about him. So why do you Catholics, I'm being the Protestant here, keep talking about her. Why do we need to keep talking about her?

There's a lot I can see on that, man. Let me just see this. First of all, it's Catholic doctrine. that from all eternity God predestined the Blessed Virgin Mary one aeodemque decreto

with the word incarnate in one and the same decree so in God's eternal plan Jesus and Mary are inseparable so if that's the case in God's eternal plan

that is the same as it unfolds in the history of salvation. Why do we talk so much about her and why do we keep going back to her? Because she is not a mere thing. She is a living person. She is not a bridge where you walk over and then go to the other side and then leave her behind. No, she is a living person. She is our mother. By God's will, she is our mother, which implies a communion. A communion. A religion. A woman. A mother. relationship, which is based on our identity and the identity of our blessed mother. There is a communion of persons. Matt, you found the Lord Jesus Christ, glory to God.

Why do you still keep talking about your wife? Why do you still love your children? Why? Because God wills that you sanctify yourself in communion. with other persons and that person of the living person of our lady is she is our mother you don't just throw her away you don't throw your wife away you don't throw your kids away that is the way for your sanctification so too god will this in his economy of grace that our lady is our mother how do we know that marries our mother what does that mean

Christus Christianus. Christians are other Christ. So what Jesus is by nature, we are through the participation of grace. And Jesus Christ is Son of God and Son of Mary. This is the first thing that the Son of God did in time. He became a child of Mary. He didn't preach.

He didn't do miracles. The first thing he did in. time was he became a child of Mary and then he willed to live in her presence all those years during his hidden life actions speak louder than words Matt and this is what Jesus did he lived in her presence and did her will subjected himself lovingly to his mother and then at the cross he even uses words and he tells his beloved disciple behold your mother

so if we are to truly partake in the divine nature through grace we need to be children of Mary okay I'm also thinking of Revelation 12 if we interpret that to mean at least in part the Virgin Mary

it talks about how the dragon went off to make war with her and her children, that is those who have, I forget the exact language, but the offspring, yes, the offspring, yeah, exactly, exactly. Immaculate conception, what does that mean, and why should we believe it? Imacic conception. So, inifabili Seus, Popeius and Ninth, dogmatically proclaims that in the very first instant of her conception, through the merits and the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ, our lady was conceived without original sin.

Let me just say this, Matt. When I was in Rome, I was studying in Rome, and there was one time where we participated at the March for Life. So it starts in the Coliseum, and then it ends somewhere in the Vatican. And we went pretty early. We don't do this as Franciscans. This is not normal. It's very unusual.

We went there early and I was looking around and there was someone who looked very familiar and it dawned on me that that is the daughter of St. Gianna Beretta Mola so I go over there

and then I say Ave Maria and then she says Ave Maria She's a very high-pitched voice and then she just kept telling me stories after story, after story of her mom. And I loved it. I loved it. Then at the end, you know what she said? Ah, she's my favorite saint. Isn't that incredible? Yeah. How rare is it to be

able to say my mom is my favorite canonized saint? That's beautiful. You know what's even more rare? imagine if you can choose your mother imagine if you're omnipotent an omniscient God did God did and this is what Blessed John Dan Scota says about the Immacicception

Potuit, Dequit ergo fetchit he can make his mother immaculate it is fitting that he make her immaculate He did it God did you see the way we see our lady

redounds to the glory of Christ because this is what the Lord did for his mother couldn't you use an objection by saying well he could have made his foster father Joseph immaculate it may have been fitting you could see people making that argument yeah but he didn't so so why I mean we know from church teaching right and you can elaborate on this

that Christ could have been born of a prostitute. It wouldn't have been fitting, but he could have. So maybe you can address that if you wish, because sometimes people have this mistaken idea that, okay, if Mary has to be immaculate for Jesus to be sinless, then her mother would also have to be immaculate, and that's not the argument.

But then the second thing is, what about that objection about Joseph? Yeah, so that's the thing. When God wills, it's not necessary for him to do anything according to our own rational understanding. He's an artist who paints according to how he wills in a fitting way. This is why St. Louis de Montfort says that when

the necessity of our lady, God makes her necessary. He calls it hypothetical necessity in true devotion to Mary. What does that mean? That means strictly speaking, he didn't have to be born. of the Blessed Virgin Mary, he doesn't have to. He willed to do it. And once he willed to do it, she becomes necessary. Yes. What do you think about this? I think of this like the cross. Yes. Whatever I can say about the cross, I can say more about Mary. So if I can say I've been saved by the cross, and you know what I mean by that, I can say I've been saved by Mary, and I can say that all the more so because she was a free agent who could have.

rejected the offer. Yeah. Yeah. And this is why our... And the cross too, sorry to interrupt you, the cross too is theoretically necessary. Yes. Like God, Thomas talks about this in the Sumer, could have saved us in any number of ways. Exactly. That it was most fitting that he'd do it by the cross. Right. But we don't go, oh, come on. Why are you talking about the cross? Why do you wear a cross around your neck? Why are Christians always talking about the sacrifice Christ made on the cross? He could have saved us in any other way. You guys make too much of the cross. Exactly. Yeah. So it's according to his eternal decrees and this is why it's so much more beautiful because our lady did save us with and under

Christ because he associated her in his work of redemption but she's not an inanimate object she's a living person who with her intellect and her will consented to the work of Christ and also to save with and under Christ her children This is why she is a true mother, not metaphorically, but really and truly because she participated in the work of Christ. And feel free to respond to what I asked about Joseph earlier, but to me it seems that the relationship between God and Mary is clearly different to every other creature, right? She's the daughter, spouse, and mother of God. The daughter of God, the Father, spouse of the God, the Holy Spirit. I mean, I don't think that's inappropriate to call her that.

She, through the third person of the Holy Trinity, conceived. And then, of course, the mother of God, the son. So she has a unique relationship with each person of the Blessed Trinity. And so, I mean, if that doesn't cause you complete astonishment, like there's enough there. There's enough meditation material there for you to go off into a cave and just think about that forever. I think of St. Augustine who said, He whom the heavens cannot contain the womb of one woman bore.

She ruled our ruler. She carried him in whom we are. She gave milk to our bread. Like that'll do. That's enough. You just go and think about that for all eternity. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. She is, as the father's called her, the paradise of God. Oh, speak more about that. Paradise of God. So God made her so great and beautiful. I mean, even St. Thomas of Aquinas would say he couldn't make anything better. Yes. Right? So he talks about three things. He says God cannot make better. Exactly. That's one of them. Most the sacred humanity of Christ. Yep. Created beatitude and the blessed Virgin Mary. He exhausted, so to speak. Yeah. And just I want everyone to really understand what you just said there. Yeah. Thomas Aquinas says. Yes. Because you know, you think you could make all things better. You know, and this is Father Pine's idea. Imagine your friend. Okay, now imagine your friend with wings. Boom, he's better.

But he could not. Not could have, but didn't. But Thomas Aquinas says he could not have made the Blessed Virgin Mary better. I don't know what that means, but I want to think about it. This goes beyond, beyond our limited capacity to understand completely. He exhaust, so to speak, his divine power in the Blessed Virgin Mary. Isn't that incredible? That requires deep meditation and contemplation.

Yeah. This is why the saints are so effusive when they talk about Our Lady. Because God, the Almighty, has done great things in her. He exhausts his divine power in her. Right? I hadn't thought of that. That's really beautiful. So in her magnificent, yeah.

The Almighty has done great things for me. You see how she magnifies always. the Lord. And in meditating on her mystery, we see what God has done. And seeing what God has done, we know him more. We know him more. Because Operari Sekwitur Esi, actions always stem and derive from being. So if he did this for our lady, who is he? He loves her. He loves her. I want to tell you about some amazing coffee. We were sent recently. It was from seven weeks coffee, which is America's pro-life coffee company. They are on a mission to fund the pro-life movement one cup of coffee at a time. The reason

they're called seven weeks coffee is because it's at seven weeks that a baby is the size of a coffee bean. And it's the same time a heartbeat is clearly detected on an ultrasound. They donate 10% of every sale to support pregnancy care centers across the country. And they've raised over $900,000 for these centers and have saved thousands of lives. Now, let me tell you about the coffee because, you know, it's one thing to have a great mission, but is the coffee any good? And I can assure you that is excellent. I had a cup this morning.

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organizations across the U.S. 7weeks Coffee.com. Tell us about Maximilian Colby. How did he develop such a strong devotion to the Virgin Mary? And you could not speak long enough. I want to hear all of it. De Maria, Numcamsatis and St. Maximilian Colby. is the saint of the Immaculate. So I know you like him, right, Matt?

Is that right? Love Maximum. Of course. How did you get to know him? What do you love about St. Maximum? Well, obviously everybody knows his heroic decision at Auschwitz, where he gave his life for Franshechik, Guy of Nietzsche, the prisoner he didn't even know. We know about how he prayed, perhaps heard the confessions of in the starvation bunker.

We know this heroic story. So that alone is cool. Secondly, his beard is fantastic. And he's just, he's a handsome man. And then I would read him and I was, I was really impressed with what a philosopher he was. Yes. I love philosophy. Good.

I wish that I was more kind of tickled by theology, and I know I should be, right? Yeah. But when I read a good philosopher, I am in the grip. And I, I'm reading his works, I realized that, wow, this man is very logical. Yeah. And then, of course, then I start reading. reading about what he had to say about the Blessed Virgin Mary, and I just found it very compelling. I suppose that's what I'd say. You know, not a lot of people probably know that when

he was in Auschwitz, so he gave his life heroically for that prisoner, but during that time, he was actually giving conferences to the prisoners. Wow. And he was talking about the Immaculate Conception, Our Lady, in relationship to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Matt, who does that? Who does that? But St. Maximilian Colby was so convinced about this beautiful truth and it inspired him to give his life to this prisoner. You know, truth, charity, and truth. And that's what we see in St. Maximilian Colby. But the emacconception was the mystery that he contemplated throughout his entire life, his entire life. and he received a mystical intuition to who the Immaculate Conception is.

And he articulates this in a way that nobody has ever done before, you know. So his consecration, his Marian consecration, he actually talks about it in terms of the incorporation of the mystery of the Immaculate Conception. Because the Immaculate Conception, as St. Maximilian Colby would say, is the mystery of her person, there's only one immaculate conception, the Blessed Virgin Mary. Some people might say, hey, look, this is based on, his theology is more based on private revelation, right? Lords, et cetera, et cetera. But the reality is, it goes beyond that.

Why? Because in the catacons and the Catholic Church, it says that, One of the ways that we grow in our understanding of the truths of the faith is the contemplation and study by believers, those things that they, the contemplation of these mysteries in their heart. And this is what St. Maximilian actually did. Because remember, St. Maximilian Colby is a Franciscan. So the way he did theology was in a Franciscan way.

What does that mean? What does that look like? So St. Anthony of Padua, the doctor of the church, once wrote to St. Francis of Assisi. Can I teach theology? St. Francis replied, yes, just as long as you don't extinguish the spirit of prayer and devotion. In the Franciscan tradition, theology is a means to loving God more. as St. Bonaventure would say, Utboni

Fiamus, to be good, to become good, to know and to love God more. How does that happen? St. Bonaventure would say there's three modes of doing theology. The symbolic mode, the academic mode,

and then the mystical mode. The symbolic mode is based on the symbol, the creed. So any believer who receives the gift of faith and professes the faith,

the creed that the church professes is a theologian, Saint Bonaventro would say, because divine revelation is entrusted to the church and whoever, whoever receives the gift of faith and expresses it

and professes it is a true theologian. And at the same time, those truths of faith can be deepened through the academic mode. So this is the typical way that we think of theology.

Fides, Querenz, Intellectum, fides et ratio, faith seeking understanding. This is what happens in universities and seminaries, where we take the truths of the faith and then through reason and faith, faith in reason, we deepen

them and articulated in an academic form. There's the third mode, the mystical mode. This is not only faith and reason, but the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The believer, the mystic, the theologian in the third mystical mode, deepens these truths of faith, not only through faith in reason, reason which is limited, but through the gifts of the Holy Spirit that helps them

penetrate the truths of the faith in a death that they cannot do alone. And more, they experience it, they taste it, sapiensia, they taste the mysteries of faith. That's what St. Thomas Aquinas says about wisdom. They taste and experience the truths of the faith. So what St. Maximilian does is he's actually a theologian in all three senses. Because in 1854, the dogma of the Immacly Conception is proclaimed as dogma. So he bases it on the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. What happens in 1858?

Our lady says and reveals her name, I am the Immaculate Conception. St. Maximilian prayed, contemplated that revelation of her name. I am the Immaculate Conception. What does that mean? What does that mean? Who are you? Right.

Because she didn't say, I was immaculately conceived. Exactly. She said, I am the immaculate conception. And am I right that Bernadette was unaware of the dogma that had been proclaimed a few years earlier? Absolutely. She was a simple peasant. And when our lady revealed her name, she had to keep repeating it as she was going to her pastor. Because she was like, what is this about?

What is the immaculate concept? I am the Immaciccic, and then she says it to her pastor. I am the Immacconce. Who are you, O Immaculate Conception? So he contemplated that throughout his whole life. And just before his arrest, he gets a mystical intuition and an answer to his question. And then he articulates that mystical gift into the second mode, the academic mode. How does it do it?

In simple terms, this is what he does. He contemplates the mystery of God at Intra, the intra-Tunitarian life, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And he says that we know by faith that there are two eternal processions. From the Father, the Father eternally begets the Son. The Father and Son eternally spirally spirited. the Holy Spirit. And what he does is he hones in on the second eternal procession. Then he says, Father and Son are divine persons. So we can call that spiration a conception.

The Holy Spirit, you mean? Is that what you mean? From the Father and Son? Yes. I see. Father and son, spirate the Holy Spirit. What does the word spirate mean? That's a theological term for the eternal, second eternal procession, the spiration of the Holy Spirit. So the Son is begotten, eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit, there's aspiration of the Holy Spirit. Okay. Yeah, it's a theological term. Yeah, I've heard it before. Yeah. And obviously language breaks down as we start trying to understand this, but the point maybe for our listeners is that from all eternity. From all eternity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have existed as God. Yeah. So St. Maximilian contemplates that. And he said,

says the father and the son are divine persons, so that spiration can be called a conception proper to persons. The father and son are perfect, so that spiration can be called immaculate. The father and son spirate the Holy Spirit from all eternity. So we can call that spiration uncreated. Immaculate. Conception. So for St. Maximilian, when our lady reveals her name, I am the Immaculate Conception. He sees that as a deep, ineffable, mysterious, spousal union between the uncreated immaculate conception and the created immaculate conception and the created immaculate conception.

She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit and he says that title as good as it is is so weak to express that ineffable union. He actually says

it's a quasi incarnation of the Holy Spirit Matt this is the max you can go nice what does that imply

it implies that the Holy Spirit who is as St. Louis de Montfort would say is unfruitful in the life of God yeah why because there's no other persons

that proceed from him is fruitful outside of God only in the blessed virgin Mary okay so let me see if i can get this right and then we can we can excavate it a little bit so from all eternity the father gives himself to the son the son gives himself to the father the holy spirit

is we could use the language of conception right the immaculate conception yes and then in time we have this trinity of sorts not the holy trinity but a different trinity of sorts where the Holy Spirit gives himself to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Mary receives this, gives it back, as it were, and from that we have Jesus Christ. So when I say Trinity, people hopefully will understand what I mean. I'm not saying we have another Trinity over here, but we have Trinity in the sense that we have three individuals again. So Father, Son, brings about the Holy Spirit, and then Holy Spirit Mary brings about the incarnation. Yeah. Oof. Now I can go in a cave and just contemplate that for all, for all my whole life.

Okay, some people may have spat their coffee out across their laptop or phone when you said quasi-incarnation of the Holy Spirit. So what does that not mean and what does it mean? It does not mean she is the incarnation of the Holy Spirit. That's why that quasi, very important. Very important. Very important. Because if you take that out, that's heresy. but quasi safeguards that deep, mysterious, ineffable, spousal union between two persons, divine person, and human person. They are not one. However, they are so closely united and their will is but one that we can say

that she is a quasi-incarnation of the Holy Spirit. She is the mediatrix of all graces. St. Louis de Montfort would say, he never, the Holy Spirit, never acts without his spouse because he is fruitful in her. Divine maternity, he is fruitful in her. By the power of the Holy Spirit, conceives the word incarnate.

But she is also fruitful in her spiritual maternity. in giving grace to souls. She is the mother in the order of grace. So her maternity derives from the fact that she is the spouse of the Holy Spirit. All right. Help convince us that Mary is the mediatrix of all graces and what the church teaches officially about that and why we should accept it. Yes. So the mediates of all graces implies. So this is actually a patristic notion. It derives from a futuristic notion of our lady as the new Eve. She is the New Eve, which means she cooperates with the new Adam in the acquisition of graces. So if you take her spiritual maternity, we can say that there are two phases, right?

Theologians call it the objective redemption and in the subjective redemption. The first phase is her role as co-redemptrix. She is the new Eve who with the new Adam acquires the graces of salvation. She does this with and under Christ. So when we talk about her cool operation, we're implying that she is active in acquiring those graces because she gave human nature to the Redeemer, right? Okay, yeah. It's immediate.

It doesn't only end at the enunciation, but it goes all the way to Calvary. So it's an immediate formal cooperation, which means that she, in union with her son, offers to the eternal father, the sacrifice of her son. And as Pope Pius X-12 would say, sacrifices her maternal rights and all her maternal love in union with her son. Okay?

So that immediate cooperation and it's subordinate to Christ, it's always in union with Him. So it's active, immediate, and subordinate to Christ. That's the first phase, we can say, of her cooperation. If she acquires all graces of salvation with and under Christ, then... What does that mean? If she acquires all graces? So she participates in the objective work of redemption.

Okay, I get that, I think, yeah. Yeah. So if she is, and she is, she cooperates directly in the work of Christ because he associates her with, she associates her in his work of redemption. So, too, in the application of graces as well. Okay, why do we have to go that far? Because she is intrinsic. She has been chosen as the New Eve to cooperate with and under Adam, the new Adam.

Okay. So if she is co-operatrix, co-redemptrix, New Eve, then she, too, applies those graces with and under Christ. Okay. So through Eve, all men died, through Mary, all men live. Bingo. Bingo. Yeah. And the popes have repeated this again and again and again and again and again. Come on. Yeah. Wow. I'm trying to think about where to go here. Blessed Virgin Mary. Yeah. Okay, here's a question for you. um i can understand how the father son and holy spirit can be personally attentive to me at any given point i just accept it they're omnipotent yeah omniscient uh they i mean he god

trying to fall into heresy here which is very tricky actually when you start talking about these things um but how how can you someone would say how can you say that the blessed virgin mary can be personally attentive to you you at any given moment and at the same time personally attentive to hundreds of thousands or millions of people around the world who are calling upon her wouldn't that have to make her omniscient omnipotent and even if it doesn't how do you begin to understand that i mean i can't be attentive to two people at once very well right maybe i can yeah yeah so this is a great mystery, obviously.

But through, so when a soul is in sanctifying grace and then dies in the state of grace and it's not in need of purification, that grace is transformed, as St. Thomas would say, into lumine glory, into lumine glory, the light of glory, which permits our faculties to contemplate God and to enjoy him directly. what that implies is we can see all things in God who is omniscient if that's the case for the Blessed how much more for our lady

she sees all her children in God in God and it's only fitting isn't it because her mediation her mediation of graces has a character of it has a maternal character

So it can't be just abstract. Yeah. And she doesn't, yeah, it's not an abstract mediation. She knows exactly what her children need. And through her intellect and her will, she personally intervenes for each and every one of her children in God. Yeah, that's a hard thing to wrap your mind around, isn't it? Yeah.

Because I could understand her being attentive to the church as church, like a sort of collective of humanity. yeah but to know us individually here's how i try to understand it and i'd love your feedback and your correction there's a huge difference i mean people don't understand what omnipotence means maybe or omniscience means like if someone is being given the grace by god to be attentive to every human being on the planet there's an infinite difference between that and omnipotence you know what i mean like it doesn't even scratch the surface yeah right that'd be the first thing The second thing would be when we look at human inventions in our own day, they seemed

impossible 20, 50 years ago that I could pick up a thing and see my mum on the other side of the planet, for example, in Australia, or come up with whatever analogy you want, but you can see, yeah, that would have seemed insane. And even now I don't understand it. Like, I can pretend. It's a mystery. I can say something about, well, towers and signals and I don't know what those words really mean. I mean, I think I know what a tower is, but that's about it.

Yeah. I don't know any, I don't know how a phone is made. I don't even really know what plastic is, actually, to be, if I can just be honest with you. I don't know many things. I know nothing about almost everything. And yet, it would appear that I can talk to my mom on the other side of the planet because it just seems to be the case. And so, all right. So if something that seems impossible can, through the advancement of technology, be possible,

then I suppose I can accept in faith that the Blessed Virgin Mary can somehow be attentive to little old Matt Frad in Florida, while being personally attentive to Pope Leo, et cetera. Absolutely. What do you think of that and maybe how have you helped to explain this past? I'm sure it's come up. Yeah, so Matt, even she's the mother in the order. order of grace. Order of grace. So every actual grace, St. Maximilian would say that usually Catholics only attribute the great graces to our lady. Conversion, miracle, things like that,

huge. He said, no, every single grace passes through her hands, through her immaculate heart. what that means is she is mediating every single grace so actual graces are which are what grace i think of help what is what is grace mean so there's there's we can divide it into two just to simplify it right so sanctifying grace is a supernatural quality inherent in our souls which makes us as st peter would say partakers of the divine nature we become really and truly children of God actual graces are transitory

supernatural qualities that help us live like children of God and they're ordered to sanctifying grace and usually they have we can just say simplified three roles right so actual graces

lead to sanctifying grace so for someone who is not in the state of grace actual graces are given so they can actually be in the state of grace because someone who is converting someone who has fallen into mortal

sin she gives the grace to get up, go back to confession so that's one role. It also preserves sanctifying grace. So when we experience temptation

when we are in spiritual desolation who is helping us there Matt our blessed mother to overcome the temptation, to persevere in the midst of spiritual desolation. And she also, through actual graces, helps us increase sanctifying grace.

Every act of love that is more intense, an act of love of God, where does that come from? Our lady, every act of faith that is more intense or the more we grow in our faith, Where does that come from? Our lady. Every single grace passes through her hands. Because there's no room that says graces.

And then if you have Amazon Prime, you can get graces from this room. And then our lady gives it like packages. No. St. Maximilian Kobe says, Our lady is not like a mailman who deletive. delivers random packages to anonymous people. She is a mother who knows her children personally, their specific needs,

and in the moment, intercedes for them through her intellect and her will takes the initiative to help her children. She's not a male man. She's a mother. Yeah, I mean, obviously, I suppose, we start speaking of spiritual realities like this, um, things get difficult to understand. And we have to use human language so that we can have something to grasp onto. Right. But I just don't understand it. I don't know what it means. I barely know what grace means. And I don't know

what it means to quote unquote go through her immaculate hands. I just, I like it. I accept it. Yeah. but it sounds just sort of so poetic that it's either got to be totally true or just all right calm down like i don't know what what does it even mean that god's help come through her i don't know what that means i think it was so you can help me maybe maybe you can't and that wouldn't be your fault um i think it was alfonza delugori did he say that something like and this is gonna who here we go this is high octane marian devotion today that's what we're doing aren't we this is what else is there to do matt you chose the right religious order Didn't he say something like Christ is the head and Mary is the neck?

St. Bernard. Okay, sorry. I believe that was St. Bernard, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, I just feel like for the longest time we've tried to say to our Protestant friends, like, calm down. And now we're like, you know what, don't calm down. Strap in. Which I'm here for, actually.

I'm really, I like it. I love it. But I don't know what it means. I don't know what it means to say that a finite creature, I understand what it means to say that it was through her that Christ came into the world. world, and so through him we have salvation. I get that. What I don't understand is how we say that now graces, whatever they are, helps from God, are given through her. What does that mean through her? Like through her intercession, through her activity? Yeah. What is that? So it always implies a personal activity. So her intellect is engaged. Her will is engaged. Wow. It's a personal causality

Wow, so she's way more powerful than we think she is then. Absolutely. Like she, she would make Gandalf look the way Gandalf makes me look. That's right. In other words. 100%. Yeah. 100%.

Yeah. So next to Gandalf, he'd just look like a beetle. Like a hobbit. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. We got to remember that she is mother to us, but also to her son. for all eternity.

Yeah. So that's why St. Alphonse's says, her mere requests he receives, the son of God receives, as commands. Because she is the mother. All right, I'm

nervous. I want you to push on, but I'm nervous. You just said that Mary makes commands of Christ. No, no, no. Let me say this again. He loves her so much. And he wants to live out the fact that he is her son, just like your kids.

I'm sure your kids do this. They love your wife. Oh, my gosh. They love her. And she's very lovable. Yeah. So anything she asks, they will receive it as commands, right? Yeah, yeah.

Like, I just want to please my mom. Yeah. So we can say the same, in an analogous way, when our lady makes a request, the Lord, who is her son receives them and whose will is perfectly aligned with his

through union with the Holy Spirit so we're not saying that Mary's making commands that are contrary to the will of God no no because at wedding feast at Kena

it's a perfect example right do whatever he tells you do whatever he tells you do whatever he tells you and he doesn't yeah Louis de Montfort love that guy

yeah Love him. Why? He's just... Tell us about him. He's the Marian. His treatise on true devotion to Mary is the absolute classic in the Catholic tradition. It is the Marian spirituality.

It's the classic. That's why I love him. That's why I love him. St. John Paul II, when he stumbled on this great work, says it was the turning point, decisive turning point. in his spiritual journey. Turning point, but he says it was more of an inner journey because it took a while. He had to read it again and again and again and again.

Yeah, I remember when I first read it, I wanted to be the kind of person who liked it. Yeah. But I was really turned off by it. Yeah. And that could be because of the sort of French flowery language, maybe. I don't know, maybe it wasn't that. Maybe I just, I didn't like all this emphasis on Mary.

Maybe at the time, I thought, okay, just calm down here, Mr. Which turns out isn't really something you should be saying to a saint, but God have mercy. But I will say that I often now, when I go to bed and can't sleep, I'll listen to the audiobook of true devotion to Mary. Is that right? I really, really love it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, when you read true devotion, it seems so unlike anything that came before it. I don't mean that it was in the sense that it was novel in the negative sense. That's not what I mean. I want to ask you what he was drawing from. But it seemed to sort of just erupt out of nothing. Maybe I've got that wrong. I know it was hidden for a while. It was, yeah.

Talk about that and talk about what he's, who is he drawing from? Were there other saints that were writing about the Blessed Virgin Mary in a way that sort of inspired him to kind of collate that together? Yeah. Yeah. So he actually talks about that in his true devotion, that this masterpiece, he doesn't call it his masterpiece, but we call it his masterpiece. That masterpiece will be hidden because the devil does not want that to get out. There's not want providentially. He was discovered and now it's a great classic. But he draws from the fathers, from the saints that precede him. What he does is he puts it

in a systematic form. That was lacking. And he goes beyond the previous, the previous, the previous writings on our lady when he says that he never has seen this in any books, in any learned people that he has spoken to, what he calls the perfect devotion to the blessed virgin Mary, which is what he calls the holy slavery to our lady, which is Mary in consecration. So I think that's the difference. He draws from previous generations, he puts in a systematic form. and then he adds, in a new way, this perfect devotion, which already existed, but he makes it more in a, he, he forms like a method, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Who wrote glories of the Blessed Virgin Mary? The glories of Mary, Saint Alphonsis de Liguri. Okay. Yeah. Did he live prior to De Montfort? Yeah. De Montfort's probably drawing from him.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think, I don't know if he quotes him, actually, but yeah. He's another great Marian saint He's another great Marian saint Alphonseus, yeah How so? Yeah Well, because of this beautiful

Maybe this work, but Yeah, he had a great love for our lady He had a great love for our lady But you know what Matt There's a part in The glories of Mary First of all, he's a great Marian saint Okay, let's just say that

But there's a part there Where He says That all her dignity she owest to sinners. All her dignity, what? Her dignity, even the fact that she is the mother of God, she owes to sinners.

Oest? Oast? Like she owes. Oes to sinners? But it's like that English form, right? Oh, I see. Yeah. Which hurts pious ears. Okay, I'm not asking the profound question, what does that mean?

I'm asking the, what are the words mean? I actually don't understand. She owes her dignity to sinners. Does that mean they have a right to her righteousness? Something like that? What does that mean? Well, I'm bringing that out because there's a theological question on the absolute primacy of Christ. I don't know if you've ever heard of that.

Yes, from Don Scotis. Blessed John and Scotis, right? So there's two schools of thought. Yeah, I side with Scotis. I find that much more beautiful. Good. And that's the reason I side with it. Good for you.

Not because I'm convinced, but because I find it more beautiful. Yeah. Tell people what that is. If you don't mind. Okay, yeah. So this is basically the primary motive of the incarnation. To simplify it, there are two schools of thought. The Thomas School and then the Franciscan school.

And to simplify it, the Thomists say that no sin, no incarnation. The Franciscans say, incarnation, sin or no sin? Okay. Now draw out the implication. for that. There's meriological implications for that. Okay? I want to tell you about Hello, which is the number one downloaded prayer app in the world. It's outstanding. Hello.com slash Matt Frad. Sign up over there right now and you will get the first three months for free. That's like a lot of time. You can decide whether it's useful to you or not, whether it's

helpful. If you don't like it, you can always quit. hallo.com slash Matt Frad. I use it. My family uses it. It's fantastic. There are over 10,000 audio guided prayers, meditations, and music, including MyLofi. Hello has been downloaded over 15 million times in 150 different countries. It helps you pray, helps you meditate, helps you sleep better. It helps you build a daily routine and a habit of prayer. There's honestly so much excellent stuff on this app that it's difficult to get through it all. Just go check it out.

Hello.com slash Matt Fred. The link is in the description below. It even has an entire section for kids. So if you're a parent, you could play little Bible stories to them at night. It'll help them pray. Fantastic. Hello.com slash Matt Fraud. No sin, no incarnation.

This is why St. Alphonseus, the great Marian saint, in his glories of Mary, arrives at that conclusion. Even your dignity you owe in a certain sense to sinners. How do you, when you hear that, what do you think about? Is he talking about Mary? Yes. Her dignity, she owes to sinners. Oh, I see. Because no sin, no incarnation, and hence no mother of God. So say the line from Ligori again? So he goes like, without your dignity. Oh, that's the most plainest, most obvious truth in the world now. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. It's the oh, happy fault, but about the Blessed Virgin Mary. Exactly. You get it now. Yeah, the reason she's so exalted is precisely. because from all eternity God chose to exalt her, and the

reason he chose from all eternity to exalt her is he knew, well, okay, what? He knew from all eternity that we would sin, but that even if we didn't, well, okay, so if we hadn't have sinned from all eternity, God may not have... You're talking about the Thomas School? No. First of all, I want to say something about the Tomas

school. Yeah. So even Aquinas is a little agnostic on this question. Just so people know. Like even Aquinas when he's asked the question, if no sin Christ, he's like, Probably not. It wasn't a definitive, wasn't? Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought what you were saying is that it's because of our sin that Mary was so highly exalted, but given the SCADA school, it would sound like that whether we sinned or not,

she would still be so exalted, or is that not true? Absolutely. That's what I was trying to get at, man. Okay. For the Franciscans, incarnation, sin or no sin? So in the mind of God, Jesus and Mary are first Let me just contrast to these two Okay, St. Alphonseus He has that line Now listen to St. Maximilian Colby

Who held to the Franciscan school So did Lagoree hold the Temistic school? If he did or not, that's just the conclusion he arrives to he must have. I see now. Now St. Maximilian Sorry it took me so long to get it.

Now St. Maximilian, listen to the difference allow me to praise you O blessed Virgin Mary For you The world was created My existence I owe to you Oh my gosh

It's like It's like This is wild Say it again Please Allow me to praise you O most holy virgin for you the world was created and my very existence is for you all right now give us some commentary on that

yes so this is a theological opinion it's called the absolute primacy of jesus and mary so catholic doctrine is there is joint predestination ineffabilis deus munificentissimus deus Lumen Gensium, Redemptoris Mater, Magisterium, very clear that from all eternity, the Blessed Virgin Mary was predestined with the word incarnate in one in the same decree. Jesus and Mary are inseparable in the mind of God, Catholic doctrine.

Now here's the theological opinion, Matt, the Franciscan school. Jesus and Mary have a logical priority in the mind of God. So they are first. So if there's a logical sequence, just for us to understand, Jesus and Mary are first before all creative things. And since our lady participates in the primacy of Jesus, with and under Jesus, she is the secondary cause for the predestination.

of the elect. Secondary cause of the predestination of the elect? Yes. Yes. Incarnation, sin or no sin? Yeah. Yeah. So from all eternity, if God knew we had never sinned, Mary was still thought of.

Does the sun revolve around the earth? or the earth around the sun? Depends who you ask, but yeah, the earth, the latter one. Do we, does Jesus and Mary revolve around us? Or do we revolve around Jesus and Mary? Come on. That's what I mean when I say, it's so beautiful. Where Jesus is, our lady is.

Have you had much experience in exorcisms or, you know, because I'm told by people who are exorcists that the prayers of the Blessed Virgin Mary are quite strong? and I wonder if you have any anecdotes about that. Matt. Matt. Now, according to the Franciscan school, the trial of the angels, since Jesus and Mary are first

and have a logical priority and everything else is created for their sake, even the angels. So the trial of the angels is God revealing his eternal plan. Wow. The incarnation in the divine maternity, they had to make an act of adoration

and an act of hyperdulia. And Satan said, non-serviam. Non-serviam. This is why, when God proclaims the first gospel, the woman and her seed the woman who they saw the seed who they saw

in God's eternal plan they saw and they said non servium they crush the head of the serpent so in exorcisms this plays out they cannot handle our lady

where our lady is the devil cannot cannot be. Even in Our Lady of Lords, there was a time where St. Bernardad heard demonic voices nearby.

She was afraid. So she turned to Our Lady and our lady merely turns her gaze where the demonic voices were they had to get out of there. They had to get out of there. Yeah.

Beautiful. Let's talk about maybe some basic devotions to our Blessed Virgin. By the way, here's an excellent little booklet you've written. It's called Beloved Disciple, Living Out Marion Consecration Daily, and they can get these where? Academy of the Immaculate.com. Yeah, so that's our website. Can we talk about the Holy Rosary? Yeah.

What is it? Why should people pray it? where do you start where do you start now usually people say that the rosary is the bible on beads that's absolutely true but let me go further the rosary is lexio divina on beads lexio divina is the assimilation of the word of god it's meditation reading divine reading meditation, and contemplation, which does what? Transforms the heart. So the rosary is Lexio divina on beads.

Because we, as St. John Paul II would say, we contemplate the mysteries of Christ, and by doing so, we come into contact with the memories of the Blessed Virgin Mary, because those are the mysteries she pondered in her heart. And when we pray the rosary, we come into contact with those mysteries which transforms our soul. This is why it's not mere vain repetition. It is not.

Why? Because of St. John Paul II would point out in his document on the rosary, Rosario Mirdinus Maria. It's not repetition, but repetition, assimilation. Repetition, assimilation. when we repeat and assimilate the mysteries of Christ it transforms our hearts you know like the stone and there's drops of water right

eventually it makes concave so when we meditate and assimilate these mysteries our heart of stone is transformed into the heart of flesh for the love of our Lord. Why not just

read the scriptures? Cut out the middle lady. Because our lady opens through the rosary opens up the mysteries in a new way, you know?

And it's easier because in a sense, it's we can we can pray it anywhere, anytime, right? Yeah, I agree. because that objection sounds clever but all right do that every day read those 15 accounts or something close 20 or whatever it's like are you doing that no why aren't you doing that well it's a little impractical i suppose okay well you know it's really practical it's carrying around a rosary and exactly yeah and it's in such a way where

anybody can pray it from the little kids to the old people from the learned and the learned from the simple, she can transform St. Jacinta, a little girl, into a saint, and she can make St. Maximilian, who is a doctor in philosophy and theology, into a great saint. Both can pray the rosary. You know what I mean? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, my grandma prayed the rosary. She was a simple woman, good woman, and you're brilliant theologians who are doing the same. Yeah. Yeah. Um, When, I mean, is it, is it an apocalyptic story, not a real story, I should say, that Dominic received the rosary? Or do we have a good reason to think that he did? Yeah.

So you sometimes hear that that didn't in fact happen, and I'm not sure. The origin of the rosary. Yeah, yeah. So people tradition, Leo the 13th on, I mean, there's many, many others, but they affirm, they affirm this again and again and again. so yeah and actually i think gabby friend of ours yeah in his new book he actually texted me recently and showed what we have really good reason to think we do yeah yes yes yeah i first i saw the rosary growing up because my grandma had it i didn't really know what it was when i became a catholic or when i embraced my faith at the age of 17 world youth day

room came back suddenly wanted to pray all the time there you go and i asked my mom about it and she didn't really know and she said well i think you you know pray 10 hail mary's and i went okay clearly that's not how you do it so i'll go ask somebody else um it's kind of shocked me at the time um now i know you and gabby are sort of advocates for praying uh the entire rosary That, and you, I'd love to know what you think. I think it's important that we distinguish between what the church commands, encourages, permits, right? The church does not command anyone to pray the rosary. Not at all, yeah, yeah.

And yet it does encourage it. Exactly, exactly. And we see it in the lives of very holy men and women. Yes. So maybe if I was humble, I'd be like, okay. But even that is not an accusation as to those who choose not to do it. But, okay, so that's good. I'm glad we agree on that.

Because sometimes, I think what happens sometimes, right, is that people will be very moved by a book or a devotion or a chaplet, and it changes their life. Like, the good God does great work through this. And then they get really passionate about it. And sometimes can fall into the trap of talking to other people as if you're not praying this chaplet or reading this book, you're a Catholic, okay, maybe, but do you see what I mean?

Absolutely. So how do we become passionate about proclaiming the Holy Rosary without falling into that era, do you think? Of what? The era of saying, if you don't pray the rosary, you're not a real Catholic. Oh, yeah, yeah. First of all, the rosary has been promoted again and again and again and again by so many popes, so many saints. When Padre Pio was dying, his spiritual sons asked him, Padre Pio, give us some last words. This is a great mystic. And he says,

Love the Virgin Mary, pray her rosary daily. Popes, saints, our lady herself, through her apparitions, has encouraged again and again to pray the rosary daily. Now, is it, is it, does we have to? No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. but those who love our lady

it's out of love amen it'd be like do you absolutely have to say you love your wife exactly well no I guess I don't well why do you do it every day exactly because I want to I love her I want to express it

yes yes so that's the same for the rosary the rosary is a fruit of our love for our lady St. Louis de Montfort in his true devotion to Mary says that we have to unite what he calls the exterior practices with the interior practices. And this is part of the discernment of how many rosaries should we pray. When we have a living relationship with the Blessed Mother, we will be convicted. I can pray more. the general principle is pray as you can not as you can't right same thing with the rosary i can pray one two three four because when people look at it it's like wow this is really possible you know if i wanted to if i wanted to i can actually pray yeah the entire rosary but that's a fruit

an overflow of our love and devotion for our lady. Is it necessary? No. It's the fruit of our love. I mean, the rosary was half the length when De Montfort was telling people to do it, right? Yeah. As someone who ventured into the Eastern Church for a while

and picked up the Jesus prayer and had great love for that, I sometimes still wish it were that way because there's something lovely about being able to say one prayer with one breath. Right. Yeah. But it isn't. So fair enough.

Yeah. I guess I get a question for you and I'll preface it by sharing a little story, which I've said on the show before, but I think it's so helpful for people. All right. So when I got married, it was important that we would at least pray the rosary tonight as a family. But I had this, I think, unhelpful and false idea in my head about what a family should look like when they pray the rosary. I had these like, you know... Perfect. Yeah, exactly.

Like Scott Hans pulling his kid down. He keeps levitating. They're on broken glass, you know. And I just went, but so what I did is I would pray the rosary of my family and I'd get irritated. Yeah. And it was out of my pride because I thought it was a reflection on me. Like, what's wrong with me that I can't get us to do this? Right.

So if you would have asked my kids early on about the rosary, they may have said, oh, that's, that's really important to dad that we sit down. be quiet so he can get irritated with us all right um i would say about you know and then we've prayed the rosary on and off and then i would say about a year two years ago we say hey let's just start picking up the holy rosary again and i just made a conscious effort like not to care what my kids did now within reason but you know all right one of them's laying down one of them's getting up for their fourth glass of water one of them's like i'm exhausted i'm to go to bed okay go to bed Oh, sit down for a bit Okay, sit down for a bit

In a way, it was almost like this holy abandonment If I could put it that way Yeah, yeah A classic story was my son Peter Who's terrific Was laying under a blanket And while we were praying the rosary And he wasn't really saying anything

And early days Matt Frad Would have went, hey, get out Kneel down, sit up, straight, say your prayers But, you know, chilled out Matt Frad It's much more fun to be around Didn't say anything Whatever. He's fine. Mary loves him. I love him. We're good. Okay. At the end of the rosary, he said, Dad, it was so great being under that blanket because I could see all of the mysteries in my head. Wow. Isn't that beautiful? That's beautiful. But even if that weren't the result, I still like this method of praying the family rosary more than the first. Now, there might be a middle row, but I, uh, a middle option. But I think it was Jose Mary Escriber who said, let the family rosary be like the hearth. The hearth, yes.

That just sort of gently invites people in. Don't force them to do it. I can't speak for other people. I can only speak for myself. And I would say that has just been a total game changer. Yeah. Where I'm worried about me, as I ought to be. So I try.

I don't always do this. But I think it's really important to see kids see their dad on their knees. Yes. So my good wife, she'll light the candles and we make it nice and cozy. I'll get on my knees like a man unless I don't. But I try to more and more. and just pray the entire rosary. And I don't, if they want to lay down, that's fine,

but dad's going to do this. I love it. Anyway, so I guess I wanted to get your advice on how to pray the family rosary. Do you like what I'm sharing with you or do you feel like it's not hardcore enough? Yeah, maybe start there. Our lady will take anything, Matt.

St. Lou de Montfort says, We just have to pray the rosary with faith and goodwill. That's it. She's our mother. She knows that your kids, it's going to go crazy. You're going to go crazy. She knows all that. And she knows that you have the goodwill to do so.

Pray that way. And she will accept it. All right. St. Therese herself says. Yes. She was so hard for her to pray the rosary. She'd rather put on instruments of penance, she says. But she says, she knows that our lady sees her heart.

Yeah. And she's pleased with her. There's that childlike confidence that the good Jesus wants of us, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah. Okay, well, here's another question along those lines. I mentioned earlier that I love praying the Jesus prayer. And part of the reason I love praying the Jesus prayer was it was just this constant remembrance of the good Jesus, eh?

Who's always with me? But also that it was rhythmic and that I could use my breath to pray it, okay. And also because I never felt bad if I was accidentally thinking about a million other things. In fact, I was even okay that I was doing that because it was almost like I'm worshipping Christ with my heart. All right, what I'd love you to tell me, because I think I could pray the rosary a lot more than I do if you tell me that it's okay if I'm distracted.

Part of what makes the rosary much more difficult, I think, than the Chotky is that, okay, you're telling me it's really important they're going to try to be very attentive. Okay, well, then therefore, I guess I probably shouldn't do it while I'm driving. I probably shouldn't do it on a noisy train where I know I'm going to be distracted. What I want you to tell me is, no, that's completely fine that you're distracted the entire time, but I don't think you're going to. No. Okay.

The important thing is that we do our best in the circumstances where we find ourselves concretely in. So for friars, the friars, we wash the dishes and pray the rosary. I don't think we're in contemplation while we're doing that. but we prayed anyways because we know it's pleasing to our lady in those circumstances, right? So it's important to do what you can and then leave the rest to the blessed mother. Again, she sees your good will. And just as long as you have faith and goodwill, the right intention, and the effort within those circumstances, it should not be a problem. Yeah, I don't love that answer.

Let me see if I can get you to agree with me again. Let's go. Scrupulosity is a real scourge of the devil that needs to be rejected in the name of Jesus, some of the Virgin. You may have had this, right? You'll give someone penance and they'll go out and they'll say their Hail Mary's. And then they'll go, oh, did I concentrate on every word? I don't think I did. I've got to do it again.

This is probably an experience that you've had of other people. Maybe yourself, I don't know. I have. And you want to say to someone like, no, you need to calm down. This isn't helpful. And it's almost Pelagian, right? So I guess what I don't want people to take away from this conversation about the rosary is, well, unless I'm like really serious and really concentrating really hard,

then I'm somehow I'm doing like, I'm praying a body without a soul, you know, to use John Paul the Second's metaphor. And I shouldn't do that. that's what I guess that's what I'm trying to get you to do I I want you to talk to the person who struggles with scrupulosity that wants to pray the rosary but knows that there's just their mind's going to wander continually not a little bit but like continually and then they'll bring it back yeah like a dog come here back here yeah and it'll keep going yeah and that's okay that's what I want you I want you to give me comfort in that oh yeah absolutely absolutely man let me give you an image at St. Terrez uses okay for the spiritual life she says a spiritual life is like a little kid who sees her father up the stairs and tries to go up that stairs. And what happens? She takes one, two steps, falls down, another.

She tries again. She gets back up again. Two, three steps, falls down. She keeps doing it. Eventually, the father sees the goodwill. Yeah. Oof. He stoops down, picks her up, and brings her up the stairs.

man that's been my experience take those steps take those steps yeah that's good yeah all right well that's good i think um so it's you tell me if this is what you're saying it would be wrong to go i'm going to pray the rosary and then just just to get it done but i'm going to think about everything else i've got to do that day i'm not actually going to meditate on the mysteries doesn't seem to be much goodwill there that's different to i'm driving to work i'm going to get a rosary in I love our lady I know my mind's going to wander and I'm going to see things

and accidentally start thinking about things but I'm going to do it anyway in other words I'm not going to wait until the own you know I mean for some people we do have the option right to go pray in a quiet room

somewhere but even then sometimes praying in a quiet room is worse for distractions sometimes walking and praying the rosary actually helps my mind focus a lot more right but anyway it sounds like you're saying that okay to choose to be distracted and to be okay with it is not good. Exactly.

But to love our lady, to try your best to meditate on the mysteries, knowing that your mind will wander and knowing that our lady loves you. Yeah. And that that's okay. Yes. It's all right. Yes. There was a time where Padre Pio, one of the friars during meditation, had

constant battles of distraction. It was so hard for him, that whole entire time of meditation. But he kept trying to do his best. At the end of the meditation, Padre Pio went up to him and said, good job, good job.

Because he did not allow voluntary distractions to deterring. That's the key, eh? Yes. And again, people might think they have willing voluntary distractions when they're really not. I mean, unless you're essentially saying to yourself, I'm going to think about this instead. Exactly, exactly.

Then it's not voluntary and you can calm down. Exactly. Exactly. You can tell me this is too personal a question, and I'll stop being creepy. But how many rosaries do you pray a day? Minimum for a day. Okay. And depending on the day, more.

Is that something your religious order commits to, or is that something you've committed? In general, yes. In general, yes. And how do you space that out throughout the day? What does that look like? So every day is different, but usually I know when we pray in common, the rosary so I try to space it out differently according to the day and it's very easy because again we pray a rosary during the dishes so is that part of your constitution or something

no it's just the way our it's a custom in a religious community so what does that look like you'll just eat you get up you go to the kitchen and someone starts yeah oh god come to my sister so lord make haste to help me glory be to the so we're washing the dishes and doing the rosary during that time. Why waste time, you know? Yeah. So we do that. And then the common prayer, we usually have the holy hour together, pray a rosary together.

So you are already too easily. And then just add another two throughout the day. Yeah. Easy. Easy, too easy. I think your answer might be similar to what you said earlier for this question. I kind of am not a, look, the luminous. this mystery is a beautiful and I'm fine that people pray them and that I pray him. I do. But I don't

like that it breaks the numerical. Yeah, the salt. I don't like that. Yeah. And I would much rather say, all right, John Paul, I love you. You're a saint. And this is a beautiful suggestion. But even you said it was a suggestion. Yes, it is. Yeah. So I'm going to stick to the 150 Aves. And I'm, I'm going to pray that occasionally, but that's not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I completely get that, the Miriam Salter 150, but I believe divine providence through the vicar of Christ added these mysteries suggested for a reason,

for a reason, especially the mysteries that we meditate in the luminous mysteries are needed today, needed today. So the fact that we can pray even more, but where does it end? Like, what if Pope Leo comes out and is like, hey, here's five more? At what point would you go, all right, listen, too much now? Because this is the other bugaboo I have about the Holy Rosary is all the additional prayers that people start inserting at the end of every decade.

Right. Like, some people have these songs that they sing. You're like, by the time you're done, you're like, this is, this, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's why it requires discernment on the part of the individual, right? the sermon prudence spiritual direction and again everyone is different there you go that everyone is different but the beauty of the rosary is it can be prayed by anybody anytime anywhere so pray the rosary as you can not as you can't it's a very important principle yeah because it's flexible realistic and challenging it's not like we can say oh i mean

I can't pray any rosary. Are you serious? It's so true. Are you serious? Yeah. Let me see your phone and how many hours in your screen time? 100%. Did you watch that biography or video documentary rather of Patrick Payton, Father Payton?

Oh yeah. It just came out. I don't know if you saw it. Or is it prey? Which one? Yeah, that one I think. Years ago, yeah. Oh, years ago, was it?

This is years ago. Okay, well, I came across it recently, I should say. but in there someone asks him the question as a young woman like realistically I can't do it and he's like well look I don't want to embarrass you but he said do you really think that in the call yeah it's so true I mean there have been times that I've chosen to pray you know three rosaries a day

and it's once you've decided to do it it's actually there's actually a lot of time in the day to do it absolutely but what often happens is that we just sort of piss around and waste time. And then we go, I had no time. Right. You had a lot of time.

A lot of time. Yeah. It actually helps you use your time better when you seize the moments throughout the day by praying the rosary. Well, this was something I found really just so beautiful and compassionate in your book was from DeMontfort. Yeah. And even DeMal, I couldn't believe DeMontford said this. Like, all right, well, look, what if you just prayed one decade throughout the day when you can? You could do that?

Could you do that? He says that, right? I'm not making that up? Yeah, it's spread it out throughout the day. Yeah. And he says, you'll see, by the end, before you go to sleep, you can get them done. Yeah. Okay, it's not humanly possible as far as I'm aware to be thinking of two things at once.

You can't think of the words of the Hail Mary and think about the mystery you're meditating on. Right? So I would think that the Hail Mary that you pray, that's not what you're thinking about. Those words are sort of the background music, as it were, to the movie playing in your mind or the images playing in your mind of those holy mysteries. Correct? Yeah, it's also according to the inspiration of the moment. You know, sometimes we're very foggy.

We can't even think of the mysteries, you know? And sometimes the words help us. anchor us in the moment. So it depends on the disposition of the moment of the day. That's why this is so beautiful. It's so flexible, so simple, rhythmic. Even if I'm distracted and it's not voluntary distraction. But I'm, man, I'm just so, my mind is foggy.

Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed earth. Our lady will take that. Yeah. That's good. Another great quote from Jose Maria Escriva is the Blessed Be the monotony of the Hail Mary's that purifies you from the monotony of your sins. I love it.

I love that he doesn't apologize to that imaginary person complaining about the monotony but goes right after him. Why did you choose the name, Jose Maria? So my first spiritual director was a spiritual son of St. Jose Maria Escriva. He knew him for many years, and he was St. Jose Maria. Escriva, who asked him to become, or if he asked him if he wanted to be a priest. He said as Monsignor Gregory Haddock. So I was formed with Opus Day in Opus Day for several years.

And my first spiritual director was a spiritual son of St. Jose Maria. So in gratitude. Can you give me some stories that he gave you? Actually, I asked him about that. I'm like, how was he like this guy? because you know when I was I was reverting so I had a reversion to the faith and it was through a good friend of mine his name is Paolo shout him out Paulo and he asked me do you you want to you want to meet this priest who yeah you just want to meet this and I'm like why in the world would I ever want to do that

and then he said he knew a saint and that intrigued me I thought saints aren't saints aren't saints like holy cards, statues, and, you know, stained glass windows? No, he knew a saint. Like, wow, so this intrigued me. So I met him and, yeah, what a holy, solid priest. He's a typical priest that you think of, white hair, cassock, solid, holy, very self-spoken. It was just, it was incredible. But yeah, I asked him, so how was St. Jose Maria like? And he told me two things. Number one is that he loved to tell jokes. He was a very cheerful saint.

And he would love to make others happy, joyful, cheerful. And second, he always, always spoke about God. Always spoke about God. Just in his presence, you would be edified, he said. Wow. That's really beautiful. Incredible. Yeah.

I feel like there's more to talk about Holy Rosary, I want to talk about that more. Just one more question would be what are some stories in your own ministry of recommending the Holy Rosary and how that's benefited others? Oh my goodness.

Oh, my goodness. So usually there's a lot of people who, for example, mothers, whose children are far from the faith, far from the faith and this for them it's just deep sorrow to see them so far from the church

far from God far from the faith and they usually you know feel helpless feel helpless and when you prayerfully recommend the prayer of the rosary

it not only gives them hope but they see effects especially desperate mothers like what do I do father are you willing to do anything yes are you sure yes pray the entire rosary daily and then what do they say and then they come back in a few few weeks father this happened father this happened there's a certain disposition that changes in their in their children because the thing is

the influence of the mother is limited in time and space just the nature of our limited being but our lady's mediation is universal and she can use anything a person something they hear an event even an accident

so when you're praying that rosary especially for mothers who have the grace of vocation in their state of life to lead their children to heaven, there's a special efficacy in their prayers. So when they take up the holy rosary, game changer. You are tag teaming with our lady

who slowly but surely will penetrate that heart. So yeah, definitely I've seen it again and again. I forget who it was, maybe Therese of Lizier, who said, talk to God more than you talk about him or something like that. Yeah, yeah, St. Therese. is it? St. Jerez, yeah. And so that seems like a good thing, right? Because often we get in our own way with people we love who we want them to come to the church. We end up treating them like a problem

that needs fixing. Yeah. And it turns out no one really enjoys being thought of as a problem. Right, right. So if I can talk to our lady and God. That's the beauty of it, Matt. Because St. Francis DeSales, in his introduction to the devout life, says, after sin, after sin, the next thing we should flee from is useless anxiety because it does us no good it actually just weakens us to the temptations of the devil and then we don't have the strength to practice virtue and the problem still remains useless anxiety does us no good how do how can we overcome that take up the rosary. Take up the rosary. Bring your intentions. Bring the things that worry you that you have anxiety about to someone who can actually intercede for them, the Blessed Virgin Mary. Yeah, that's good.

First Peter 5-7, cast all your anxieties upon him. He cares for you. Yes. Yes. It actually gives you a practical way to do just that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What are some other devotions to the Blessed Virgin Mary or sacrients. that you've found helpful, that people you've worked with have found helpful? Brown scapular, miraculous metal. So these three sacramentals, the rosary, the brown scapular, the miraculous medal. These are Marian sacramentals that have been promoted universally by the church. There's others, but these three are like the main ones, right? So the brown scapular is a beautiful devotional.

because, as St. John Paul II says, it reminds us of two fundamental truths. The first is the fact that devotion to our lady is not something that is just momentary. When we take on, we put on the brown scapular, it's a habit. It's a habit. We become, and it expresses itself in the brown scapillar, like children to marry. That's a habit. It's not a thing then, you know, it's temporary. No, no, no, it's a habit.

And it also reminds us of how her maternity, her mediation has as its end. Not only Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is sweetie, Holy Mary pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, but she intercedes for us even after death, even after death, through the promise of the scapular. Right? This is so beautiful. when you think of, you know, at Fatima,

one of the first questions that Lucia asked our lady, where do you come from? And then our lady responded, I come from heaven. Wow. This is the type of mother God gave us. We have a mother in heaven who intercedes for her children from heaven

so that they too, may make it to heaven. I love it. What about the miraculous medal? The miraculous medal is a great sacramental because it's epitomizes

as St. John Paul II says. Marian spirituality. Genesis 315, Revelation 12, back and forth, we see the entire history of salvation in such a small, little sacramental.

I never made that connection. I mean, I'm looking at your medal there. Yes. I'm aware, of course, that the 12 stars were on the back, but I didn't make that connection between, yeah, the proto-evangelium and then the... Absolutely. So it's a great catacetical tool as well, you know?

And yes, yes, I love it. And then how are you associated with Maximilian Colby? Because am I right in thinking that Colby wore a habit like yours and wore the miraculous medal on his breast, or no? So, man, as you know, Franciscans love... To start a new order. Yeah. And we are a fruit of St. Maximilian Colby's legacy and spirituality, but it's more of an organic

development. Yeah, he didn't found an order. No. He was a conventional. He was a conventional, yes. Okay, but then when... Was an order started based on his teachings? Yes.

So around 1970 was the experiment. So our founders were conventuals. And then they took this Colbyan heritage. And then 1990s, we were approved as an official institute through St. John Paul II. Who loved them, St. Maximilian Colby. So the Franciscan fries of the immaculate is what you're called. Now, I've got to be honest, I think up until C. you, I thought the Fries of the Renewal had the coolest habit.

But I don't know. Let's go. I think yours might be better. The cow, what's it called? This cape, the thing? Yeah, the capuch. The capuch. Yeah, of course, sorry.

That is neat. That's really nice. The CFRs are so beautiful. Those guys are superstars. I noticed when we're in the coffee shop, you have four knots, not three on your ropes. Yes. I think I can guess, but. You want to guess?

Total concentration of me. Is it? Bingo! Yes. So even St. Maximilian-Cobie did not arrive at this. Yeah. He would give his life for this. Wow.

And this is a new gift in the church. A new chirism in the church for today. And where are you located? So we're an international institute. So we're all over the world. Italy, U.S., Philippines, Brazil, South America. Yeah. Hopefully there are young men today who might be discerning the priesthood would like to look into you.

Where do they find you? They can find us on our website, merrimidiatrix.com. So you can look at our website for more information. Truthfully is a groundbreaking Catholic AI app built to help you know, live and defend the Catholic faith with clarity and confidence. Whether you're navigating a tough conversation, deepening your understanding, or looking for daily spiritual guidance, Truthly is your companion on the journey. It's like if Chat GPT went through OCAA, got baptized and made it its mission to proclaim the truth of the Catholic Church. But Truthly is more than just a Q&A tool, its formation in your pocket. Take audio courses

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Start your seven-day free trial today. Download Truthly on the app store. who was that um i think he was part of your order yeah he had that beautiful voice gray beard he wrote on pneumatology father peter fellner that's him yeah is he part of your order yeah he actually left though oh okay huh that is a conventional oh he left for it to be conventional yeah yeah i was uh speaking you mentioned earlier how the uh friars love to start new orders or something like that. I asked a Dominican once.

I said, why are there so many Franciscan orders but not the same thing? Right. And he said because the Franciscans follow Francis and we follow the rule of St. Dominic. Yeah. Is that wrong? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, the Dominicans don't have a, it's like a Franciscan disorder, huh? But the Dominicans don't have that problem. They don't seem to. They don't seem to have that problem. I just love the Franciscans. There's just a kind of wildness. Yeah.

Did you discern the Franciscans? It's funny you asked that. Did you know that or do you just... I heard about that. Oh, I went and stayed with the Friars of the Renewal in London. Oh, okay. And then I also went and stayed with the Capuchins in Melbourne for a... Oh, really?

A few nights in Australia. Yeah. So... Just a few nights, huh? Yeah. Yeah, nothing serious. But I think that if I had have chosen a religious order, it would have had to be the Franciscans. Yeah.

I love to... To tell the Dominicans when they're present, the incident, when our Lord appeared to St. Margaret Mary Alacoke. Have you heard of that? I mean... And then he said, The saint that resembles most my heart is St. Francis of Assisi. One point.

One point for us, Matt. Well, here's a point for the Dominicans. Okay. Ready? I like to tell this story. Thomas Aquinas. St. Bonaventure, both died the same year, as you know, both doctors of the church, Aquinas, patron saint of universities, Bonaventure, patron saint of bowel issues.

Yeah, that's right, actually. That's right. But hey, bowel issues, that's no small matter. Right, right. That's who you want to be called upon. Yeah. One of the Dominicans told us once, because we recounted that story in a presence of one of the Dominicans, and he said, okay, that's fine. but the saint that most resembles his mind

is Saint Dominic, okay Dominic or Aquinas? He said Dominic. That's funny, isn't it? I love the diversity within Catholicism. That's the beauty of the church. That's the beauty of the church. Since you're Filipino,

there's a lot of Filipinos where I grew up in South Australia. Okay. Loved every one of them. And I was actually in the Philippines, really, getting to evangelize in Manila. And it was amazing. Beautiful. I thought I was going to die every time they drove me places.

But, you know, the infant of Prague is quite a popular devotion in the Philippines. I think that is a great example of how not every devotion needs to appeal to everybody, and that's okay. That's right. If this is a universal church, there are going to be devotions and statues and things that don't resonate with you and they don't have to. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. All right. There you go. We've talked a lot. I want to talk about consecration. Yeah. I don't know if you know this. Father Gregory Pine and myself wrote a book on Marian consecration. It was a nine day preparation based on the teachings of Thomas Aquinas. Beautiful. And the reason I came up with this idea is I found this beautiful prayer that I'd never seen before about Thomas Aquinas giving everything to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

And it was very much in the language of consecration. It was surprised by it. And then we went into his writings. He's got this excellent sermon. I think it's something like seven ways the Virgin Mary is like light. I'm like, that's cool. And so we drew from that. We drew from the Semothiologia.

Anyway, so that's just a sort of quick preparation. If people are interested, they could check that out. Beautiful. Yeah, what do you recommend? Why should people consider a preparation for consecration to Christ or Mary? Yeah. So if you look at it from a holistic point of view, there's the preparation for Marian consecration, the act of Marian consecration, then actually living it out. Okay? So you're talking about the preparation for Marian consecration. That's an important part. And that comes from St. Louis de Montfort, the 33 days for preparation for Marian consecration. and that actually is within the true devotion to Mary

and the exterior practices, what he calls the exterior practices. And he dedicates 12 days to emptying yourself of the world, one week to know yourself, one week to know the Blessed Mother, one week to know our Lord. 33 days is symbolic for our Lord's life. Now, if someone said,

okay, I can empty myself the world for 12, 12 days. Wow. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. So it's just a symbolic preparation for such an important, you know, moment and act that someone makes giving themselves entirely to Jesus through Mary. For preparation, there's many booklets out there, many booklets, many ways. What's important is that it helps you actually prepare for that moment. Father Michael Gately is a good one. Father Matthias Sasko, one of our confreras, wrote one. Is it in this format? This type of...

Yeah, it's actually in a booklet. I've heard great things about it. Yeah, the booklet form. Yeah. Total consecration. Father Bonifus Hicks wrote a beautiful one. Father Boniface Hicks. Yeah, fruit of her womb.

Yes, fruit of her womb. Your own. You know, so these are all different forms. It just has to resonate. You know, it's important that it prepares one to make that act of consecration. What is the... What is Mirian consecration in... oversimplifying it is doing what Jesus did the act the living it out is living as Jesus did

what do I mean again I've said this before but the very first thing that the son of God did in time was he became a child of Mary so he gives himself not only he becomes a child of Mary And in the act of consecration, St. Louis de Montfort says, we give everything to Jesus through Mary, our body, our soul, our exterior goods, our interior goods, everything to Jesus through Mary. This is what the Son of God did in time. He actually assumed a human nature from the Blessed Virgin Mary. He actually applies.

the interior goods, his merits to our lady in her immaculate conception. So this is what our Lord did. And then he lived that out because he is son of God, son of Mary. So that's what Mary in consecration is. I think we have to understand it in a Christological way. That is very, very important. What our Lord is by nature, son of God, son of God, son of Mary, is what we become through grace.

And the act of consecration is the explicit voluntary recognition of that. Okay. We've talked about some ways in which we can live out our consecration through the Holy Rosary. Is there anything else you'd want to say on that point? Yes. So St. Louis de Montfort actually emphasizes more so not the exterior practices, but the interior practices. He calls these practices very sanctifying for those who are called to deepen

their conformity to Christ through the Blessed Mother. The interior practices is at the heart of Mary in consecration, doing everything for Jesus, in Jesus, with Jesus, through the Blessed Virgin Mary. One way I would suggest is to mental prayer in union with the Blessed Mother. What does that mean? Our Lord, in his hidden life, must have conversed intimately with the Blessed Mother. It's unthinkable that he didn't do this. so when we pray converse heart to heart with the blessed mother

we pray like Jesus did and this deepens our consecration because this interior practice is actually a hard to hard conversation with the one who we know is our mother so that's one way I would suggest and that's very simple recollection

recollect yourself in her presence just like our Lord lived in her presence and conversed intimately with her so too we also recollect ourselves and make an act of faith

that she knows we're there and we can and she wants to intimately converse with us why is the act of faith before mental prayer important

Because this disposes us to the sacred realities. Yeah. Because we're so, we're so caught up in many things. And we have to recollect ourself. So recollect the dispersed senses and faculties to come back to that one thing necessary. And the act of faith makes us, disposes our minds to those realities. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah.

I think it was Fulton Sheen who said that when the church drops something, the world picks it up. Yeah. So the world drops the rosary. We're done with that. And all of a sudden you see Madonna and other rock stars wearing it. The church drops recollection. The world picks up mindfulness and things like this. It's interesting, isn't it?

Yeah, very interesting point. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Have you two questions. Have you read Tim Staples book, Behold Your Mother? The best. Isn't that the most?

one of the best yeah that is thank you tim staples thank you but i don't hear about it i don't know why people don't know of this book well me i'm not behold your mother it should be way more popular yeah yeah i wonder why behold your mother people should check that book out if you're looking for a book that'll help you understand defend the church's teachings on the blessed virgin mary wow yes that book because i actually worked at catholic answers while he was finishing that book okay and then when i got it i read it and i was just this is the best thing i've ever read yes yes So marrying apologetics, that's one of the best. That's one of the best.

For our leading sacred scripture, Brand Petrie. Oh, yeah. Dr. Brand Petri. Jesus and the Jewish roots of Mary. Yep. Merion typology, one of the best out there. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Let's check in with our peeps and ask what questions they have. These are people over on our locals, community. We're also about to do a 33-day preparation for consecration of the Blessed Virgin Mary over at locals. Beautiful. Which will end on the feast of the All righty of the Rosary. So some of these questions maybe we've addressed. So you can either take another swing at them, just answer them quickly, or just tell me, we've already asked that. Because I haven't read these yet.

These came in while we were talking. Okay. Devin and Chloe asked, why exactly do we think it's advantageous to have Mary? or other saints pray for us. If God is unchanging and pure act, how can his decision to pour out special grace be affected at all, but specifically by his perfected creation differently than if I were to ask in all my imperfection?

And Joe Ward maybe sums this up somewhat. He says, why not right to God? Yeah. So the answer would be in a simplified form because this is God's economy of salvation. This is how he willed it. that we, just as he comes to us through the Blessed Virgin Mary, we come, we go back to him through the Blessed Virgin Mary. St. Ludemontfort puts it in such a beautiful way.

When we pray through our lady, she takes our apple, which has worms and it's just rotten, and she takes it, she purifies it, she puts it in a golden platter, and she hands it to Jesus. who doesn't even see the thing that is on the platter, but sees the person who gives it to him. And he grants her request. So she purifies and she embellishes our imperfection, our imperfect prayer. You see that?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, a lot of these questions that Catholics often get asked or objections boil down to something like, well, why can't I just do this? Yeah. And it's the wrong question. The question is, well, how has God set it up?

Exactly. Because you could say, well, why did God need the angel Gabriel to appear to Mary? Like, if he's omnipotent, he could just appear to himself. Yeah. You know, there's actually a friar that wrote to St. Maximilian with all these objections. So if anyone has the volumes of St. Maximilian's writings, there's two volumes, the first and the second, go to KW, 643, This is a letter

by Brother Matusis Spokola. I don't even know how to say because it's a Polish name which is very hard. Even if I had it in front of me, I wouldn't be able to see. They just call him Brother Matt. Brother Matt writes to St. Maximilian Colby with these problems.

I can't harmonize loving Jesus and Mary together. I'm before the Blessed Sacrament. Where is she who we cannot go we cannot reach Jesus without where is she all these objections she's the monstrance yeah so what he said he actually responds to it i you need to text or email me this yes it's the best can you find it online or the thing is it's in these volumes but that letter is so cold then well you all need to be about the business of disseminating this work yeah yeah because y'all have a publishing house right

yeah we do we do but that's uh academy of the immaculate wow the letter basically so he responds He responds by saying this, can you love your father, your mother, your brothers, sisters, your country, your friends? Of course you can. The problem is you just can't think of all of them simultaneously because we are limited. Right? That's what he says. And when it comes to devotions, like our love for the blessed sacrament, we don't see her present. I don't feel. He says, you're confusing, memory, intellect, imagination, sentiments, and will.

He says, just as long as you will what God has established, then that's the way it will be. Let me use a dumb example. I don't think of my ear all day, but is there. That's just the way it is. The same thing, similarly, similarly, to the way God established things. We don't have to think about God giving graces through the sacred humanity of Christ to the Blessed Virgin Mary, the spouse of the Holy Spirit. We're just so limited.

We can't think of these great mysteries. But just as long as we don't reject it, that's the way it will be. Excellent. Yeah. That's hopeful. Mark Kabozy says, is there a way to clarify these things? seemingly conflicting metaphors where the Holy Spirit is Mary's spouse, yet simultaneously the childlike shared love between Mary's son and God the Father. Numerous times I have heard a

common analogy that likens the Trinity's Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, respectively to a romantic lover, his beloved, and their shared love or child of the two spouses. Yet there is another analogy where Mary is said to be the Holy Spirit spouse. We address this, and I'm not exactly sure what he's getting at so maybe we can bypass that or you can yeah i'm not sure what he's trying to say there i think i mean i don't know what he's trying to say there and that might be more about me than the question but i think also like to realize that all analogies break down yeah um and whenever you try to make a sort of one-to-one comparison they're not analogies aren't necessarily meant to do that yeah you know it's sort of like when you look at our blessed virgin in revelation

12 crying out in pangs of birth and you might look at that and go oh hang on but mary said not to have child birth pains it's like okay it's an analogy so you you can't even cross it over like that second of all it refers to her well what her if i had revelation 12 in front of me i would i would look to it but the child pangs oh yeah yeah birth pangs represent what so her her at the foot of the cross giving mystical birth to church, where she suffered in union with her Jesus. That was the suffering, yeah. All right, thanks. Christian You says, do we know if on her time on earth, Mary knew and understood her own immaculate conception?

Wow. Yeah. So our lady's knowledge can be, so these are myriologists who talk about this. it can be divided into beatific knowledge, infused knowledge, acquired knowledge. These are the manualists who talk about this. And for the beatific knowledge, they say that it is fitting that she has temporary beatific vision at certain moments, because she's a wayfarer. So at certain moments, it's fitting that she has this temporary beatific knowledge. It must be a weird experience, be like, why am I so much better than...

everybody else. Okay. Aaron says, hypothetically, if you were a Catholic and didn't feel any pull to devotion to the rosary, how would you draw close to our blessed mother? And then she says, I'm the hypothetical person. And I found Mary as someone who knew and loved and meditated on scripture to be the most effective way. If you're a Catholic, she says?

Yeah, if you were a Catholic, but you felt no desire to pray the rosary. And she's asking you, what might you say to someone like that to help try? draw them into it. Yes. Oh, to the rosary. Yeah. Okay. So how would you kind of convince her?

Here's what you might want to. Yes. So the fact that it is such a beautiful prayer. And at the same time, yeah, draw from, first, draw from the treasuries of the church. There's so many, so many beautiful devotions to Our Lady. Draw first from what you're inspired to pray. and then once you develop this devotion to our lady try the most holy rosary because we know it is such a pleasing prayer to the blessed mother yeah so start where you are yeah you know it's funny i was

just thinking if this person or if i'll just use myself as an example if i'm like i don't know let's say I was at the deathbed of Padre Pio who died before I was born of course but suppose I was and it was some amazing coincidence that I happened to be there and someone led me in and said this is Padre Pio the one with the Sigmarita wow that's amazing and he would say to me hey look at me pray the rosary I think I would right now I would go okay well I even if I don't want to I think I'm goneu because he told he told me to exactly and when you multiply this number of witnesses, these saints who suggest it. It's like, all right, well, maybe just do it anyway. Right. Maybe not. As we said, it's not absolutely necessary. And I think the last

thing we want to do is, like, load up burdens upon people's shoulders who already feel like they can't carry what the church is commanding them now. One, go to Holy Mass every week, go to confession, etc. So there's freedom among the children of God. But the fact that she's even asking the question makes me think that maybe she wants to want to. Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, our relationship with the Blessed Mother develops with time.

Even in her apparitions, she says, come back next month. Come back the next month. Just tell me who you are right now. No, no, come back. Yeah. Come back.

Come back. When we're faithful to those little things, she reveals herself more. We love her more, and then we'll do other things. you know if it's the rosary blessed mother this is what you want when when uh when st francisco of fatima heard that he needs to pray many rosaries to get to heaven he was just like blessed mother i'll pray all the rosaries you want you know what i mean yeah yeah that's good

sherilyn says one of my biggest hang-ups to consecrating my home is that i don't like the aesthetics of most of the imagery, some programs ask you to display. So much religious art is bad. The depressed-looking, sacred and immaculate heart images make me want to cringe and are not welcoming looking to visitors. Do you have good resources for finding artwork that is subtle, beautiful, and would still fulfill the obligation of having sacred images on display? We do have beautiful crucifixes around the house and artwork I find symbolic to me, but it's not obviously Catholic Christian art to an outsider. Wow, look around.

There are so many, so many beautiful Catholic stores or Catholic artists who make beautiful artwork. So just look around. There's so many resources, right? Yeah, I mean, I sympathize with where she's coming from. Yeah, I agree. You know, sometimes you'll see these statues of Jesus, and it just look ghastly.

Or it looks like a woman with, like a woman. with a beard, some of them look like. And I know they're trying to depict his divinity, and so they're trying to play with that, and fair enough. But I would say there's bound to be imagery that does appeal to you. It might be Eastern iconography. It might be a beautiful image like this on the front of your book. So, yeah, look around.

Yeah. And, yeah, but I see what you are. You know, St. Jose Maria had the same hang up. He wanted beautiful statues and images of our Lord and Our Lady. And he wanted to make sure that the faces resembled each other because the word became flesh in her womb. So he had her physical features. Glenn Duncan asks,

can a father consecrate their child to Mary or the Sacred Heart or St. Joseph for that matter before they reach the age of reason? Absolutely. You are the father. You have the right. And your vocation is to lead them to heaven. and when you consecrate them to our lady she will come through

she will come through so absolutely yes many saints have been consecrated by their parents when they were after they were baptized to our lady have you ever read the brothers karamazov by chance some of my favorite books in the beginning

the narrator is talking about how Alyosha has this memory of childhood of his mother weeping and holding out Ali Oshah To the icon of the Theotocos. Yes. Yeah. So there's a word.

Yes, yes. Who wrote consecration of St. Joseph? What's his name again? Father Calloway. Yeah. He's terrific. But I said to him, even in our interview, I don't like this. Is that right?

Yeah. And maybe I'm wrong not to like it, but I feel like we're just trying to understand consecration of the blessing of the Virgin Mary. Could we not confuse. Right. Right. Now, that's probably, you know, different people are different. And again, again, for the 18th time, I think it's really important that people realize,

I don't know if this is escrow or not, but there are many devotions within the church's treasury. Choose only a few and be faithful to them. Some people come into the church and get devotion fatigue. Yeah. Because they're so excited and they do a million different things and then they're just run ragged. Right. I like what you said. Just what appeals to you?

Just start there. Yeah. Peace. And then when you're faithful, you look. be inspired to do more. You know what I mean? But even if more, you can't do all. Exactly, exactly.

And in your prayer, you will know, you will know which one. Which one should I do? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. Let's see. Have you heard, ask Sean, of the Marian flame of love devotion that was approved by Cardinal Erdo?

And is promoted by Father Chris Ayla. one of the promises of the revealed unity prayer and Hail Mary insert is to bind Satan and is supposed to be a powerful spiritual weapon of these times. How instrumental has Marian devotion been in bringing you closer to Christ? First of all, if Father Chris Ayla is promoting it's probably fantastic, but I haven't heard of it. Yeah, I tend to stick to the major. Guadalupe, Lord's, Fatima, because these are on a different level. They actually have a liturgy, right?

Our Lady of the Feast of Our Lady Gueloupé, Lords, Memorial. So they're on a different level. So, yeah, I mean, I stick to those, really. I also think to what we were saying earlier about there are, you know, choose a few remain faithful to them. You can kind of damage your spiritual life by chasing novelty. Right, right. Do you want to talk about that?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so the deposit of faith is complete. It is complete. So we draw from the deposit of faith. And private revelations, authentic private revelation, that is their very nature. It draws from the deposit of faith some aspect for this particular time in history. So it's like highlighting from the deposit of faith, you know. So it's not a novelty in that sense.

It's actually highlighting something that is old and makes it old and new. like the gospel in a particular time in history, I tend to promote the Fatima message because this is complete, and it has been approved by so many popes, right? So this is, we can say like a complete Marian apparition because even the popes say this is a prophetic apparition. What does that mean?

St. Thomas of Aquinas says that after the apostolic age, prophecy pertains to the direction of human action in a particular time and history. And here, our blessed mother at Fatima directs the actions of her children in a particular time in history by giving them concrete means, drawing from the treasuries of the church and applying it today. Hannah asks, where is the line between honoring Mary with devotion and distracting ourselves from deepening our relationship with Christ? You've probably never been asked that. The line is our Lord himself. Again, devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary is based on what we believe about Christ

and what the church teaches about Mary in devotion and consecration. illumines in turn, it's faith in Christ. So if it is going beyond what our Lord did, that is crossing the line. Can you love her more than the Lord did? That is the question. That is the question. Along these lines, Ishya of Arabia,

who is a convert from Islam, who I've had on the show, actually, he says, isn't that a little naive to be shocked that Protestants think we worship Mary, bowing to statues, our life, our sweetness and our hope, the immaculata prayer by Maximilian Colby. Of course we don't worship here, her, but it definitely looks like we do by most people outside the church.

I think that's a really great point. Yeah, that's a great point. It's the impression that they have, because doctrinally, it's very clear that we don't worship our lady. 100%. And you know what? At the start of this interview, we made this analogy to Muslims. Same thing here.

Isn't it a little naive for you Christians to think, to be shocked that Muslim thinks you worship three God? It's like, well, I don't know if we're shocked. I think I can understand why they have that error. But if they would just listen to what the church teaches, then that would be quickly cleared up. It's so clear. It's so clear. And I think it's the impression more so that they have.

But that's the thing. They're looking from the outside. Yeah. Just like any culture. Like, why did you do this? You can't really understand that culture if you're not in it, right? So, too, in the Catholic Church, all these practices, devotions, the Marian culture that we have, I mean, you will only understand that when you're in, and I think that's many Protestants who have converted had that journey, had that journey, and then they understand, okay, this is not worship, come on, man.

Yeah, yeah. This is not worship. Maybe this is a tired out example, but the same thing could be said about. you know, the man who kisses the photograph of his wife or the boyfriend who kneels to propose marriage to his wife. Right. You know, like, doesn't this look kind of like worship? It's like, well, it might, but it isn't at all. Exactly. You know? Exactly. The boyfriend isn't attributing divinity to this woman, hopefully, nor are we. Yeah. But fair enough. And, you know, I think it's important to point out, A, like we've been separated from our Protestant brethren for 500 plus years. We use

language differently, you know? Like the word pray. Yeah. They use synonymous with worship in a way that we don't necessarily. Exactly. That's a great point. Yeah. So, yeah.

So I think if you're engaging with a Protestant being like, yeah, okay, yeah, like being reasonable and trying to understand where they're coming from is a really good idea. Yes. Being dismissive and arrogant is a terrible idea. Right. Emma says, I've done marrying consecrations before, but what does the life of a person consecrated to Mary look like after the consecration practically. Get the booklet.

Get the booklet. Once the preparation is done. That's amazing. What a softball question. This isn't your mother, is it? Your mother's not named Emma. Yeah, everyone should go get this booklet. It's called Beloved Disciple.

You can get it from Academy of the Immaculate. I was given this by Gabby, who I've had on the show before, Gabby After Hours, Gabriel. And it's excellent. And I'd really, and you'll sell this and you can buy them in bulk, right? Oh, yes. Yeah. That's exactly what we want.

to get it to as many souls as possible. Because the thing is, there's many preparation, not a lot on, okay, what now? That's why the booklet. Yeah, good point. Just an accountant says, as someone new to the faith, how would we go about consecrating something

or ourselves to our lady? We've talked about this, but... Yeah. I mean, I like, and I think a softer word that helps people begin to be okay with the word consecrate, is John Paul the second's language of entrustment? What do you think?

There's a filial character to that. I give it over to you. Yeah. This is what we mean, right? Yeah. When you consecrate something to Mary, you give it over to her. And I give myself,

we did this right before the interview, right? We consecrated, if you want, this episode to the Blessed Virgin Mary. And by that, I mean, we gave it to her, knowing that she's so good and so concerned about all of the children of hers that will watch this, show. So maybe that language might be more less offensive to those who were unfamiliar

with it in the beginning. What do you disagree? I would agree, but St. John Paul I second, his word is actually consecrate and trust. There's like both. Consecrate in trust. And trust or and? There's like a dash there. There's like a Polish word for it. So I'm not saying get rid of, certainly not saying get rid of the language, but. Yeah. And the thing is, as St. Thomas of Aquinas would say, right? Our assent to the faith doesn't stop at the proposition, but in the reality. So too, with consecration, it's like, okay, there's different formulas, but the reality is we take her as our mother explicitly and completely, give her everything. Michael Cooperis says, is it possible to unconsecrate yourself due to the negligence of your devotions and fidelity? Would one need

to reconsecrate themselves? St. Maximilian would say that the essence of consecration is in the will. So if you take it back willingly, then that happens. But if, but you haven't, he hasn't done that. You haven't done that, my brother. You haven't done that, you don't want to do that, my brother. Yeah. And that's important too, back to this idea of scrupulosity. Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe I accidentally had a flea and no, no, no, no, no, no, it's in the will. And just as long as you will it can, and even if you're not aware of it, just the fact that you have done it and your will has not willfully and positively retracted that consecration. My brother, you are consecrated. You are in the heart of the blessed mother.

You are under her mantle. And Delis says, what's the association with the chain or metal bracelet that people wear during the consecration? Do you continue to wear it afterwards? So where does that come from? Why might people pick it up? That comes from St. Louis de Montfort, in true devotion to Mary, he suggests, as an exterior sign of your consecration, a chain. And that chain represents holy slavery. That's what he calls it. That's why there's a chain. A willful submission and dependence surrendering everything to Jesus through Mary. So that's where it comes from. Is it necessary? No, it is not necessary. It's an expression of that reality, the consecration, which is way deeper than exterior objects.

Michael asks, do consecrations need to have a particular form? What are the essential elements if someone wanted to use other prayers, like from the Byzantine or Chaldean traditions? Again, St. Maximilian Colby says that the essence of consecrations is in the will, and he even says that we can use different terms. Property, possession, slave, children, doesn't matter. formulas don't really matter in a certain sense like it's good to have a certain formula but in the end it's in the will so if you have a beautiful prayer that you have composed feel free to use that

what's important is that you willfully with your mind your intellect and your will you give yourself entirely to Jesus through Mary Jacob says how can one consecrate themselves to Mary and it's still being keeping with the faith. The standard answer of to Jesus through Mary does make sense, but I've heard priests say things like Mary can hold back the justice, wrath, judgment of God. What does that mean? Are we placing too much importance, even if it is deserved on a creature and not on God? I want to come to love and venerate Mary more as my mother and God's mother, but the way some people talk about her is almost scandalous. Quick phrases, like, don't be afraid because you'll not love Mary as much as Jesus, are not capital

letters helpful, especially to us who are scrupulous, even though I believe they are trying to be helpful. Such a lovely, honest question, I thought. Yeah. So what was he trying to ask again? He's just wondering, I think he finds some of the language that people use about the Blessed Virgin Mary to be just huge stumbling blocks. He's struggling with it, and he doesn't like these quick throwaway lines like hey no to jesus through mary oh you can't love her more than jesus did he's like that's not helping me i i want to be on your side this person's saying yes but when you say things like mary can hold back the justice wrath of god how isn't that not entirely scandalous first of all be not afraid my brother our lady is your mother and she loves you so if there's certain

just like in general right in spiritual reading if it's not how helpful at the moment where you're spiritually at, find other things. There's so many saints that talk about our lady. That's good. Yeah, find what helps, what's helpful for you at the moment. That's something actually, I wonder where Gabby got that from. I don't know if he got it from you or not, but I notice that sometimes I'll ask him a question. He'll be like, look, if this isn't helpful, forget I even said it.

And then he'll give it. I like that. That's Father Emil Newbert. Is that right? Yeah, that's St. Maximilian, one of St. Maximilian's favorite Mirian authors. He says, look, I'm going to teach you all these things. Take what applies to you. Yeah.

Take what applies to you. Because the thing is, Matt, it's, this is a personal relationship, right? When our Lord says, behold your mother, he uses the singular, your mother. St. John Paul II calls us the mystery of the singular. With those words, he expresses his last testament. a personal gift to his beloved disciple. And what is he doing there? He's establishing a unique and unrepeatable relationship with two persons, mother and child. So this is very personal, very, very personal. Yeah, that's just so helpful. You know, there are certain things where

you have to accept, acknowledge this and not reject it, whether you want to or not, the immaculate conception say. There are other things such as the way in which certain saints spoke about her or the way in which certain spiritual authors write about her, the language and the metaphors they choose to employ different devotions, that you're actually free to just set aside. You actually are free. And so that's okay. And I could see that it would drive someone a little crazy if they thought I have to resonate with the way in which these multiple people speak about her and I have to adopt every devotion or else I'm doing something wrong.

That seems like a way to drive yourself mad. So I appreciate the freedom again that we're given. There are certain things you're not free to reject, such as Mary's Mother of God or something like that. But then there are other things you can acknowledge, okay, that's helpful for some people. That's not really helpful for me right now, and that's okay.

Take what applies to you. Yeah. Yeah. All right, I think we're at an end here. Wow. Wow. Thank you for coming. I do not like traveling. Yeah.

And so I'm always just so grateful that people would make the trip down. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate the invitation. Thank you, Matt, for all you do. Yeah. And your love for our lady, thank you for spreading devotion to our lady. Yeah, you're welcome. Oh, please God. I won't be a hindrance to it. Hey, what do people say to you when you're at the airport walking around looking like? Surprisingly, surprisingly, not a lot, actually. I know they're thinking something.

And sometimes I just want to say, come on, just say. Just say it a day, bro. Just say it. But there are times where they do. I remember one time where I was boarding a plane, and I was completely exhausted. It was a long trip, delays, long layover. so my only thought boarding that plane was

I need some sleep I want to go to sleep and that flight was basically everyone just chose their own seat right so I was the last one I'm Franciscan so I'm the last one and the only seats available

was the middle seat so I'm looking what's the row where I can go sleep and I found one an old man knocked out a young lady with her headphones on and I said perfect

that's exactly what I need so I wake up the old guy can I sit there I'm like yes I sit down I look left I look right she has her headphones on

he's knocked out okay we're good to go and then I hear excuse me I mean this with all due respect but what religion are you and I turn to her exhausted

and as St. Maximilian said in Auschwitz I am a Catholic priest. That's the extent of my heroism. And five hours later, she kept talking and talking and talking. But it's an opportunity to plant seeds, and hopefully she was more disposed to the Catholic. Because you've got that Buddhist monk look going on, right? Because you're Asian, you've got the shaved head, and then you've got the robes.

So they're like, what is he? Who is this guy? But yeah, there's interesting stories. and yeah I mean it's a public witness it's beautiful thank you for being that witness and I'm sure it keeps you in check when you're at the airport

and someone cuts in front of you and you want to say something you shouldn't I don't know if you ever want that but there's been times I thought golly I'm a witness it's amazing you know when Pope Leo was elected and just every single

movement of his was scrutinized and interpreted and there's something to be said about that and you know you as a priest out in public the same thing me as a father to my children like how i act how i talk to them how i if i raise my voice absolutely yeah all right good hey thanks a lot um any way you want to point people before we wrap up we've done it but i feel like we can keep doing it fries of the immaculate yeah also check out our our youtube channel hyperdulia media so we are trying to show how our lady so these are high quality videos testimonies and real

people and real life graces where our lady touches the lives of our children. You know, it's not something abstract. And so we try to capture that in videos. And that's a new channel, Hyperdulia Media. Beautiful. Thank you, Father. Thank you.