Pints With Aquinas - Awake Not Woke w/ Noelle Mering

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

Noelle's Book: https://bit.ly/3DUQvf7 Show Sponsors: https://hallow.com/matt https://stpaulcenter.com/matt  

We're live. Yes. That's what that meant. Good day, Noel. Good day. Thank you for being on my little show. You're welcome. It's not that little. Yeah, it's all relative. That's right. Are you on YouTube? Do you have a podcast? I have not. I do not have a podcast nor am I on YouTube. I mean, there are videos of me on YouTube, but I don't have a channel. I heard Dave Rubin say there are now more podcasts than people, which I thought was good. When podcasts were a thing, like becoming a thing, when was that? The first one I ever listened to was Serial. Yeah. Yeah. With a guy who was potentially falsely accused of that one. Oh, it was really gripping.

I thought for briefly about starting a podcast, maybe five or six years ago. And I was going to call it the last, last podcast the world needs. The last? The last. Because it was already so flooded. If I don't think the world needs it, why am I going to do it? You live in California? Like city?

I don't want to out you, but where abouts do you live? Not far from Thomas Queen's College. So between Santa Barbara and Los Angeles. Has California got as bad as everyone tells me or no? Well, we're kind of buffered from it because of the TC community. There's a lot of Catholics out there and we didn't have as badly as people who I know who live closer to LA. Like they would go to the parks and the cops would come with like nets and like put them over there. And it's getting better. They would get trouble for taking their

kids to the park. And I don't think that my town, I didn't hear stories like that. Although I think I was we were close to. Do you remember that story when there was a paddle boarder and the police came and just waited for him to come back to shore so that they could arrest him? I don't know what they did if they arrest him or gave him a citation or something. But because he was paddle boarding, paddle boarding.

And you can't do that. He was this stark image of this person all alone at sea. And they're like, yeah, that's not OK. See, Australia was like that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I think the difference between Australia and here is you have everyone is leftist media in Australia and you don't really have a right left media contingent powerful and big enough to kind of sway a large majority of people.

You have Sky News, which I guess is doing things, but every time I see them, they're talking about American politics. So are there any people in Australia or any contingent of people that are still skeptical of, were skeptical of that narrative? They were, but they are quickly sidelined as crazy. And you can do that when you have all of the media outlets on your side.

Right, for control. Yeah, so they were just written off as crazy and they were able to be seen as crazy. My parents thought we were crazy for not getting the jab. Because they care about us. I mean, they cared about our kids, but they had... It was weird when I had a conversation with them. I could tell that. Yeah, we were drinking two different cool ads, maybe. Yeah.

Because they said to me. They would they they said two things that struck me. They said. They talked about how Covid had shut down all these small businesses. I'm like, well, it's really the laws, right, that your government implemented policy. And they said, yeah, but they're doing what's best for us. I can't imagine an American worth their weight that would say about the government.

They've got our best at heart. Well, a lot of people said that, right? I think it was hard to reconcile the idea that there was something more sinister going on when there was such a mainstream narrative that was so dominant. And so if you're someone who really trusts that, and historically have believed them to be of goodwill, then it's easier to buy into. I suppose what I find interesting though is, you're right, a lot of people would have said they're doing what's best for us, but my family tend to be quite conservative in their views.

So it was strange for me to hear them say that. Right. They also said something like, they're doing, yeah, they're doing what's best for us. That was the thing. That was the main thing. And I just thought, I don't know anyone that I like that would say that about the government. Right, right, right. Do you think things have come, I mean, I don't know, I don't want to put you on the spot here. I don't know how much you've read about this stuff, but do you think things have come to light that have shown that this was? Yeah, I think so. And I mean, it's one of those things where I think the memory holding is real. So people can you know then a couple of years later, when it comes out, undeniably,

and most a lot of us knew at the time that those were lies, right? You just kind of it was kind of obvious, I think. Yeah. And then I think when it comes to light later, it's rare that I think that people look back and say, OK, I was wrong. Yeah. It's more just like I have a healthy distance from this. I probably didn't believe that too strongly, or maybe I just don't want to think about it too much. But the cognitive distance was bizarre. And I think that one, I wrote a piece about it,

this actually, I had this weird experience. I was giving a talk in San Jose, which is a pretty progressive area, Northern California, a Catholic church. And there was mass and then dinner and then my talk. And the mass, I went with a friend from college and we didn't wear masks. It was early 2021.

So people were still pretty masky, but I know there was a mix of ideas about that at that time already. And most people were masked. And then at dinner, we sat down with this nice older couple chatting, the husband got up to get wine and the wife looked at me and her eyes narrowed and she said, why weren't you wearing a mask and mask?

And I just kind of laughed because I'm not used to someone. It was so startling. And she mimicked my laugh back to me with venom. She's like, I mean, anger. Did you know her? No, we just sat down with them randomly. It was just like, you know, let's all sit down and eat.

And I just said, why were you threatened by me? I was probably 20 feet away from you in mass. We're two feet away from each other right now eating dinner. Do you not see that this does not make sense? It was so bizarre. And I was thinking about it a lot afterwards and I realized, I think that there is something very, it's a very human temptation

that when you're given someone to disdain or even hate like a group of people, they're wrong. It, you're more attached to that sense of hatred than you are to your desire to discover what's true, right? And so it becomes really hard to reevaluate and see your own self and your own thought processes with objectivity. I think that kind of tribalism really feeds, you know, deception. I was in Kroger the other day and they still have the big glass wall between you and the big plastic wall. And I said, what the hell is this?

And she agreed. She's like, it's so stupid. It's so why, why? It is so do you remember there was one hot Thanksgiving where the government said, or CDC or somebody said, OK, you can eat outside with your family, but don't have more than this many people and put your mask back on between bites. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's hard because a lot of us,

I imagine most people didn't have access to like firsthand sources or primary sources about what was happening. And we just kind of had a sense. For me, it was just being told what to do. Like I don't like being told what to do. I think if the government told me not to get the vaccine, I would have got it in a black dark alley somewhere.

Yeah. Just don't like being told what to do. Yeah. And the coercion, the censorship that was, you know, Well, it is weird. Like, again, back to YouTube, like during the Black Lives Matter riots and George Floyd, if you had been critical of BLM back then, I think you would have been close to getting shut down.

Yeah. You do it now and I don't think they care as much. It's almost like they decide. It's not the pet issue of the day quite as much now. Yeah, it's pet issues. Whereas now COVID, like I don't think they care about that. So like what do they care about now? Climate.

Climate? Is it climate? It'll be the next, I think, government orchestrated emergency might be climate. I've been saying that for two years though, so I don't know when it's going to happen. But they are amping up that narrative. I do find that the talk around climate is getting more alarmist. Especially this month, it was the hottest month on record, apparently, like globally. So they're really ramping it up right now.

So how you wrote a book called Awake Not Work and Thursday if you could put a link in the description to this excellent book. What was the genesis of it? And what's it about? I started writing about the woke movement around 2018. I think I just Yeah, I think I just found that it was there's something far more than politics going on. Obviously there's a redefinition of what a human person is, but also I hate the feeling of being manipulated. And it felt like it was operating so much on the manipulation of people's goodwill and compassion.

I think it manipulates you in three ways. Through your pity, through fear, and then through force. What is it? The woke movement. Okay, I wanna back up just real quick. Could you give us like a real brief history on that term? Yeah, it originally was, I think a term that was good. It originated around racial injustice.

So in the early 1900s, like 1920s, I wanna say, but I'm not certain about that. Black people would say, stay woke, as a way of saying, like 1920s, I want to say, but I'm not certain about that. Black people would say stay woke as a way of saying, telling each other, be aware of your surroundings, be aware of you. I didn't realize it went all the way back to around then. Yeah. Well, I could. I'm terrible with dates, but it was it could have been the 40s. It wasn't it wasn't 1995. No, no. Yeah.

I only started hearing about it five years ago. Well, it didn't. Itvented, or not reinvented, but it resurfaced in the culture. I think it was, I won't say it to my memory so bad, but there was a singer who had that, a refrain in some song, saying something about stay woke, stay woke. And then the movement, I think, intellectually,

got kind of galvanized around in the late 80s, early 90s, intersectionality, Kimberley Crenshaw, writers like that. What's up? Not the singer, Josh Gambino. Oh, thank you. Stay woke. Stay woke. What year?

2016. Okay. It's in Redbone. Okay. Okay. So the woke movement was already galvanized before then, but I think it, I mean, George Floyd is obviously when most people started really hearing and thinking and talking about it.

Trayvon Martin, I think that's when BLM movement really came on the scene. But what was the question? I guess a brief history of the term work. Cause at some point it went to being like a term of derision. Right. And that seems to be the more, at least in my circles, the more popular. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. But the intellectual ideas are still have still have major support. Yeah. Okay. So good. And then you thank you for giving us a little history on the term. So then you said like it works through and you said pity and some other things. Pity, fear and force.

So pity, obviously appealing to people's compassion, fear, um, you know, fear of having losing human respect. You know, I think that fear of being shamed or canceled or censored or something. And it has far more to do than just race, obviously. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I remember back when they were trying to push for so-called gay marriage, I remember they're being adverts. So like stay on the right side of history. And I remember feeling I hate it so much. And you can tell me why. But I felt really coerced in that.

Like if you don't want to be an out of date bigoted idiot, you got to join the cool guys. It's so stupid. I remember people saying, like analogizing it to racial injustice and saying, you know, the people who were racist back then, you're gonna look like that in the future if you are not supportive of the redefinition of marriage, you know, trying to put them together,

which is, you know, it's effective because you don't wanna have been racist looking back. But yeah, no, it's a terrible, being on the right side of it's a terrible, uh, being on the right side of history is a terrible phrase. All right. So how did, where does it come from and how did it develop in the, you know, that phrase or the woke movement? I guess the woke movement. Yeah. Um,

cause I think a lot of time I talk about this, people say, define what you mean. Like what do we mean when we talk about work and other than just we'll stay awake to social injustice. I think that's on the surface what they want people to think it means, just being aware of injustice and being a normal human person who wants to fight injustice. But that's not actually what it means. It's a whole host of ideological premises. So I think it means adopting the correct political consciousness, which obviously that even that phrase has its roots in Marxism, where you filter, if I'm gonna say it the most bluntly, I think it is a rejection of God

in favor of giving yourself authority, and then eventually that turns into the state authority, and eventually I think it turns into authority, giving authority to the devil. And that's a provocative statement. But I feel like that's the, I mean, I don't, you're nice woke Aunt Susan or your neighbor down the street. They are not like, hey, I want you to give authority

to the devil or even to the state necessarily. I think they probably are operating at a different level. So I don't think that any person who's woke is, has the full cognizance of that structure that I just said. But I do think that that's what's animating the movement fundamentally. So then what's the difference between being aware of social injustices and wanting to rectify them, which all Catholics ought to do, and the negative, the bad kind of work

that you want to talk about? Well because being aware of social injustice, I think is only a tool for the woke movement in order to. So if you like the historically, you know, it has its roots, obviously. And well, I think the the fall, the fallen man, obviously. But Marx, Hegel, but Marcuse and, you know, the the newer, you know, Gramsci and Rudy Deutch and all the Frankfurt guys, they realized pretty quickly that being aware of social injustice was a good tool

for spreading new fractures in society and brought throughout across broader categories. So, whereas Marx just had this, the categories of level of class, they realized that's not enough to seed revolution, that you can still even, you're not gonna be angry enough by class differences, especially when you have family life that can give you happy satisfaction in life, you know,

so, and you have your faith, so your faith can teach you, oh, I don't have as much as that guy, but I have a good life and I can suffer well my circumstances and they can be redeemed and, you know, it sort of is a buffer against revolution. It's not it's not destabilized enough. And so they realized pretty early on, you have to target the family, have to target the faith.

And and also, you know, we have to see division across broader categories of and into identity. Right. And so that's when you get really the racial, you know, where it's Martin Luther King Jr. or somebody who is maybe an old school, capital L liberal, was was going to be asking people to become aware of social injustice in the in the good way. And then you have, I think, something like the BLM movement

who is saying you have to be aware of it in the sense that you need to understand that you are defined by a social oppression, that that's the definition of who you are. So one of the things I'll say sometimes is that I think one of the shifts is the difference in definition of the human person being we are defined as Christians understanding that we are through universals, you know, or even as non-Christians. We're rational animals, right? So we are defined in ways that unite us as human beings. As Christians, we're defined

because we're made in the image of God. So we're defined by the love of God, which gives us a gospel mission to go spread that good news. For the woke, they're not defined by the love of God. They're defined by the hatred of mankind. And that gives a contra gospel message to go out and spread the bad news to people that you might think you're living a happy life,

but you're actually miserable. I mean, that's right through the literature, right? Raising people's consciousness is helping them to see that they are dissatisfied, they are hate. Yeah, that they're hated or they're miserable. They're oppressed or that they have privilege, right? And that they are unbeknownst to them, part of the problem with the word privilege, not being I want to invite you to be grateful but rather I want to impugn you with guilt right it's not invitation to gratitude and then and then that and then there's a call to become an activist once you have that right awareness then you have a duty

then to become an activist for for the sake of justice. Mm. Yeah, when you say things like that, it makes it sound like there is a group of mustachioed evil men and men who identify as women and women and people of all colors sitting in a room together hatching a plan for the destabilization of society. It might be that. I kind of hope it is that. It makes it way more interesting than we're all just buffoons who don't know what we're doing. Do you think that's the case? Or how is it proliferating, if not? I think it's proliferating because the ideas really appeal to our things that we're all human beings are naturally tempted by. And so it creates a situation where it kind of proliferates itself. But it certainly is deeply embedded in the academy, right? If you read queer theory and critical race theory literature, all these ideas are very radical and

they've been out in the open. It's just that most people don't read that stuff because it's really it's actually it's almost impenetrably written in some ways. It's I think probably for a point. But you see that classic interview between Matt Walsh and that university professor and he asked him the difference between sex and gender. I'm not sure if you ever watched What is a woman? Oh, I did. Yeah. And the guy was just spewing things that made no sense at all. And Matt just kept asking him very simple questions and he imploded. Right. That's what happens. You want to kick him out. Yeah. To your point about like the jargon that's impenetrable and you say for a reason.

Right, well, because if your goal is not to arrive at the truth, but to align yourself with a certain movement that can then be powerful, right? I think the goal is not truth, it's power. And so you have to constantly be manipulating even your own words and then afraid of somebody saying something that's simply true. Yeah, it was who wrote the book?

Joseph Pippa, he wrote a book, The Abuse of Language, The Abuse of Power, something like that. And yeah, the idea, I suppose, if I cannot communicate objective truth to you, if objective truth doesn't exist or if I'm unable to communicate to another mind, then what is the point of speech? And if there is no truth, it might be manipulation. So I speak in a way to make you do the things that I want you to do. And it might be conducive to both of our goods and it might not be and who cares anyway. So yes, a speech redefining speech becomes a point of power. And you know, you think of all the deviant sexual acts that the church wants to condemn. And it's really interesting to see how we've chosen different language. So adultery, which

is a very serious sin is now cheating. Like it's a game or sodomy, which is a very ugly word for an ugly behavior, is maybe like gay or love is love. Abortion is health care. Self abuse goes from like masturbation to maybe even self care. Like we have to manipulate the language. Gender affirming care. Gender affirming care for child mutilation. Wow. That's why I think one of the best things to do is to name things as they are, right?

And if there's a spiritual dynamic, I'm not the first one to point this out, obviously, but that God creates reality through His Word, and we identify reality through ours. And you know, in the woke movement, you are creating reality through your own word. So it's another, I think there's so many ways in which it's a self-deification. And I think that's one key one. I understand what you mean, but I'd love you to flesh that out for us.

Well, God made the world through His word, right? His word creates. I get that bit. And I get that we participate in recognizing things. Yeah, we are trying to correspond our thought and our words to what is real. So words do that. And that creates a shared inner life. Like we can have a shared inner life if we have that understanding that our words should correspond to reality.

But in the woke movement, if I can change reality through changing a word as the like you just elucidated, but also with my pronouns, then I'm creating new substance, the idea with the power of my word. And then I can demand that other people affirm that because it's tenuous, you know, obviously, I think ultimately, but because, but that's why it becomes totalitarian by nature is because it's doing violence to reality and violence to language. That's good because what is it like to get really into the weeds? What the difference between a term and a concept, right? A term conveys a concept is the intellectual abstraction of the essence of a thing. And so when I give a term to you, it's like I'm giving you a package with something in

it that we both recognized. But if I start making up terms or attributing terms to things that historically haven't meant those things, then I'm at best being confusing. And maybe at worst, as you say, seeking to have power. So how is it when you say self-deification in the work movement? What do you mean by that? I get it, but I'd love you to talk more about it. Right. Well, I think that's one example. Another one. So in my book, I identify three main dogmas, I think, how they operate. One is that, and this is in simple, non academic terms, my book is not very intensely academic, I wanted it to be accessible, and I'm not intensely academic. But the first one is group over person. So that's

referring to like the collectivizing of the human person that you, your identity becomes more absorbed in your political identity than your, than as a, as a person. And the second one is will over reason. And I think that one is particularly self-deifying that our will, and it goes back to the, the word create flesh idea, but that our will triumphs over reason, the sense that we don't have a stable human nature. We can't, we don't look at the world as being intelligible and we are trying to receive it and then understand and then conform our will to it. Like you would when you're striving for virtue. Um, but rather that through my will, I can, um, I can dominate reality,

even to the point of bodily defiance. I think it's a very Gnostic idea, right? Um, and then the third one is power over authority. So it's a rejection of any objective authority for the sake of power. And ironically, I think it leads to people who are really prone to authoritarianism. So I think at first, that third one, it operates first by making you the author of your own life. So that connects with obviously your will, being able to dominate, your words,

being able to self-create. But it also makes you very prone to the power of a tyrant, right? Because if you don't have an objective measure, every sense of authority that we have in this world has to be derivative, except for God's, right? That if you're given an office, you're given a commission from above in some way. If you're a father, you know, you are given your child from God, and that holds you to standard and it invites you to be reverent,

right? I think there's a real connection between right authority and reverence. And if we try to hold authority absolutely, it becomes a matter of domination. So, I think it's self-deifying in many ways. There's an interesting, Richard Dawkins, do you know that? He's a scientist. Yeah, biologist. He had some interesting interview that I just saw a clip of recently, and he's not... I mean, he's atheist, right? And he was saying that there's a connection that between Catholic's understanding of transubstantiation and the transgender movement.

That in transubstantiation, all of the accidents remain, the substance is transformed, and that that's what the transgender movement is telling people that they can do, that all of the accidents and physical properties of their body can remain, and yet the substantively, they've utterly transformed themselves, which I-

Which is like a shot at Catholics. We're still chilling. Right, it is a, in a way, it's a shot at Catholics, but so if Catholics are, and Orthodox and other Protestants who believe in trans-distanciation or something similar are incorrect, then I guess that's why I've heard trans people say things or trans people who are favorable to the movement will say, oh, okay, like a man can't become

a woman, but like that can become God. So they use it as a kind of a mockery. I'd never I'd not heard that before. And I couldn't I actually assumed that he was saying it as a way of not ascribing any validity to the Catholic church, but I thought he was saying in a way that was kind of critical. He is. He is. It's interesting that. First of all, it's interesting the glory of the world, because Dawkins was

even fact that you had to ask me if he's an atheist or just to clarify shows just how quickly we forget about people who are really popular in 2006 and write a book that's philosophically spineless. As I asked it, I felt like an idiot because I'm like, this is. Don't be. No. This is the point, though. We want to use language and we don't want to pretend to know what we don't know. Right. But it was Ed Faser who said that Richard Dawkins wouldn't know the difference between metaphysics and metamucil. I like that. And he's probably right. But it is interesting that these people who are enemies of the church are also like allies in a way as they stare at this insanity in the face. And we wouldn't agree with them maybe on a lot of things, but then yeah Did you say something no, sorry, yeah. Yeah. So that is interesting

Yeah, well and that's happening more and more right? It is that with like the feminists and fighting the transgender are we seeing that? I I mean we are seeing it some degree There are certain feminists who have stood up and said this is not okay We've been fighting for women's rights and you're just gonna to tell me that their women doesn't is eradicated or that. And what's funny is if I can identify as a woman now and then in an hour identify as a man, like it seems to me that unless if I don't want to say that, they're going to have to show me how their worldview is more substantial and and coherent, which it isn't.

So if I can just do that, I guess I'm a woman right now. And then now I decide I'm not. Then I can like then identify with the hardships of women and I can say that stand up females aren't that funny. And I can say that as a woman, like I'm saying as a woman. And Trump could run as a first female president next time around, that could work well for him.

But you say that and you see- That would be a signal scramble. What does that mean? I mean, you know, because they hate Trump. But if he said, well, I'm actually a woman now, they would have to believe him. But of course they wouldn't, which would just show the incoherence of the whole thing. Well, I think no one believes them. I mean, every progressive person, even the most progressive person understands that Leah

Thomas is a man. Right? Yeah, I don't know. I think it's a giving over to ourselves to a lie. Right? The deepest core of ourselves. Yeah, we have to lie. You have to lie. And I think I think it's the I mean, maybe a mentally ill person or something would know that or believe that Leotomacist really woman, but I think progressive all know that yeah, right?

So if you ask them, are you lying? What would they say? They would say no, I'm not lying because this is, you know, because the ideology tells them that this is possible and that that's the compassionate position is to affirm that. And so I think they would say, I'm not lying. I'm choosing to believe this. I don't know if they'd say I'm choosing to believe this,

but I think that that's what's happening in their mind, right? I'm going to make a choice. Norm MacDonald has the best sketch on this. Have you seen his? I love Norm MacDonald. He's my favorite. Ah, he's everyone's favorite. Yeah, I know.

If Norm MacDonald's not your favorite, it's because you haven't watched him. Yeah, that's right. He's hilarious. He was being interviewed, I don't remember who, and he asked him, what do you think about transgender movement? He's like, I absolutely love transgender people.

I love Caitlyn Jenner. So brave, very brave. He's like, but the only problem I have is when transgender people are serial killers. He's like, but it's hard, it's hard, because I mean, I love the part of them that's transgender so much, so brave, but I don't care for serial killers.

He's like, there's only been a couple of them in history. One one fella, lady, lady. So he's he's showing that process of like, I'm going to I got to correct myself. I'm saying the wrong thing. Right. And he's showing he's showing the insanity of it. Yeah, he's he's mocking it. Yeah. Through irony. Yeah. Yeah. No, I will. So in your book, did, what aspect of wokeism did you focus on? Or was there like a particular like gender, race,

or that something in particular that you- I did both. So I signed contracts for the book two weeks before the quarantine started in 2020. And then all my kids came home, I was sharing a computer, everyone was like homeschooling and in a different room. I just created a little makeshift desk next to my bed and was anyway, it was chaos. And then the riot started.

It was really bizarre because I wrote in about six months. And it that was a year where everything was kind of coming apart, you know, and it just felt like it lands a certain urgency to the books. I felt like, oh, I'm seeing the effects of this playing out. But I did I focus on race, feminism, transgenderism. But I try to make it so it's simply laid out. I give the first section is the origins, the history of the movement. The second section is like the main tenets of the movement.

The third is the methods of indoctrination. So like sexual revolution, education, activism, and critical theory over critical thinking. And then the last section is restoration. So four parts. So I, yeah, I so in other words, I cover all those identities. I've I've said in the past that engaging with the world and by the world, I'm going to mean like the leftist people. I liken that to a serious conversation with somebody who I gradually discover is hammered drunk.

Right. And it's because, you know, you talk to people and they're like, well, I kind of think like if you're happy, you should be able to live together. And like people shouldn't be stuck in a marriage if like someone's beat you and she like, okay, I'm tracking, I'm tracking, you know, and they'll say, well, woman should have authority over her body. Okay, I see. I disagree. But I see. And then it's like also pregnant men. And you're like, oh, shit. And then I want to go but that has caused me to just think oh god. Oh what how much have I? Accepted from the woke left that I still accept. Yeah that I have to seriously question that scares me a little bit Yeah, how was that with you? I? gave a talk recently about fatherhood, which is something I've been writing about more and thinking about a lot, but I Think that there are certain ways that we have absorbed propaganda without realizing it, right? I mean, everyone as a woman, like growing up, you are a default feminist. You almost can't help but be because it's everything you see around you.

It's every message you get. Early in marriage, I remember just feeling like, are we got pregnant or I got pregnant we within about six months after we got married. And then so it was sort of, not a surprise, but we thought we knew how to practice that a fee. We didn't know what we were doing. And it was, I'm so glad that that happened, but I was 24, all of a sudden home, the baby.

And I just felt like I'm wasting my, I'm wasting away. Who am I? Like my friends are in law school and all this stuff. And and it was so it was just the messages of the world, you know, had shaped me and I was too young to have kind of the any virtue muscle to kind of counteract that or so it really had to get it got burned out of me fairly quickly with life and family life, you know, but if you don't mind me asking what did that do to your relationship with your husband? If you feel like a victim in a relationship with a man you love, but there's competing messages that really you're kind of enslaved to this. Yeah, no, it was not a dramatic strain, but it certainly was a strain.

And I remember realizing it more after the fact. Like once I, there was a really particular, I don't normally have like dramatic moments when I have big realizations. It's usually slow, you know, I'm a slow processor. So I usually have to think about something for a long time before I really start to absorb it or be convicted by it. But I remember one day he was coming home from work and you know, I've had babies and toddlers and all this stuff.

And I realized all of a sudden I put myself in his shoes, which obviously you should be doing that all the time in marriage, but I was an idiot. And I remember thinking, saying to myself, what would it feel like to be coming home from a day of work and your wife is giving you a litany of complaints about her day? And I realized that would feel horrible.

And I don't think I did that every day, but I probably just did a knee jerk regularly. And I just remember thinking like, what am I, why would I want, why would I treat this person I love so much like that? I would, I would, who would I want to come home to? And I realized I would want to come home with someone who was grateful to see me and pleasant and able to carry her cross without suffering poorly. So it just was a simple realization, but it all of a sudden just dawned on me very forcefully. And maybe that's, I'm sure many other women

realized that much earlier, but we were probably, I don't know, six or so years into our marriage when I realized that. And we had a series of those. I remember at one point, things felt hard, just the everyday life of little kids. And after we got everyone to bed, we were talking and all of a sudden we just had this moment of like this, you know, we are either going to live a Catholic life in the small unglamorous details that don't seem that you can write off as insignificant,

we're either gonna fight the battle in those little details or we're not gonna fight it at all. And so if we believe this, why aren't we fighting it in those minute details that that's where it really matters, right? So I see like it dawned on you, like specifically, like I put myself in his shoes, but like at what point, or maybe it was the same time,

did it dawn on you that the propaganda you were receiving as a young girl had contributed to that? Yeah. And then I'd love just to know your thoughts on feminism in general. Yeah. I remember, well, I dawned on me, I think at one point because, and this is maybe balancing off what I was saying before, we really have had an annoyingly blessed marriage. And it's been, you know, without, we've had our annoyances, but it's been a very deeply happy marriage. And even at the early years, I remember having this realization of, I feel like my husband should be on the cover

of Time Magazine or something. This is what a heroic man looks like. He is giving and helpful and loving. And, you know, and I remember thinking, why have I struggled so much with the idea of being a stay-at-home mom? Why have I struggled with the idea of my husband being in more traditionally masculine and fatherly role?

Why was I resistant to that? This is a life of joy. I realized that this is a beautiful life and the fact that I had any hesitation about it or any struggle with it began to seem very much like I'd been, my mind's been infiltrated, you know. It was actually, it was interesting actually, I wrote about in theology poem one anecdote of

my husband coming home and he had a bag of groceries under his arm and he takes the baby, pours me a glass of wine, and he starts cooking dinner. And I remember just looking at him, like I was exhausted, and I was just like, you are a hero. This is an image of heroic manliness. And I wrote about that in Theology of Home 1,

and we had one review that had a critical, we generally had good reviews, but someone wrote in some periodical in the UK, a review of Theology of Home 1, and highlighted that anecdote and was saying, this is kind of silly, you know, obviously her husband should be helping her when she's got a baby, like, of course he should.

And I just thought, how ungrateful do you have to be? And think about it, if you change the sexes, if a man said, I came home and my wife gave me a sweet kiss after a hard day and like let me vent and was so sweet and she was so amazing, expressing gratitude. And another man said, of course, she should do that. That's how pathetic that you're grateful to your wife for that. You know, we would never say that, but we're used to expressing that sort of cynical and gratitude towards men.

One phrase that I hate hearing is happy wife, happy life, because it makes you seem you as the wife, like a petulant child. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never thought of that. It needs to be kept satiated so that everyone will be calm. I don't like that phrase just because it seems like it's like it should be on a sign and someone's like word art or something. It's just cheesy to me. Yeah. Happy wife, happy life. But yeah, that's right. I didn't think about that.

So then what when you started to realize that because so many thoughts when you started to realize that feminism was a problem and it had infiltrated you. Oh, did you then become open to being even more critical of feminism that you were in that one moment? Like, OK, this whole thing has to be torn out, root and branch or no? No, that's a good question. I think I felt convicted about I would not have said I was a feminist. I don't think even at the time, I think, you know, I was very pro-life and orthodox Catholic. But I think it made me realize how pervasive that message is, that

it's, you know, that it can colonize all of our minds pretty quickly. And I think it made me want to be more vocal about just in a helpful way, like let's help other women realize, okay, you know, you've been sold the bill of goods, this is a very happy life. And if you keep going down this road with these ideas, A, it's going to be hard to have a really happy marriage. But B, you might even reject marriage, right? And I think we're seeing that now. A lot of women who are wishing they had babies,

and they're 40, and looking back with regret. But I think my heart really goes out to them. Because in a way, they just were lied to. So I don't know if it, I mean, I guess your question is, did it make me become more anti-feminist? Or it's one thing to see, oh, I was, this part I was lied to about. Maybe it's like traditional roles in the family, say. But then did that realization lead you to be further critical of other things that maybe it just totally accepted as common sense today Yeah, yeah, I think so. I don't know if that was like the the moment of nexus about it

but I think I've I think there was probably a series of moments where The lies became more obvious and then it just felt like okay You know, there's so many messages swimming through the culture that are speaking into things that are really disordered understandings, what a human person is in multiple ways. And how powerful that media capture has been, you know. Yeah, it's yeah. Even in the church, I find, right? Like, I like that putting yourself in the other person's shoes, right? Like, if a wife lovingly came onto her husband and he's like, no, I had no good reason to reject her, crush her. And you go, what the hell is wrong with you?

But somehow, even in the church, we have this idea that the woman can do that to the man, and that's OK, because the man's the problem. Yeah. So it's colonized people in the church. That's true. And there's something, I mean, I think that maybe one thing that makes it complicated is that I think I agree with what you're saying about that injustice, or that double standard with men and women. But there, but then again, there are real differences that probably give rise to that as being it's more fitting for a man to respond to the wife in that way. I mean, a wife should respond positively as well, but it makes sense to me that a woman would be more crushed

in that moment than a man, doesn't it? And not just because I think of cultural messaging, but I think because of something in us and who a man is and who a woman is, that a man is more prone to be ready anytime. For rejection. Well, that too. The other thing.

Oh, I see. Men also learn rejection. Really quickly. I mean, that's how you get married. You have to like pursue a thousand women and get rejected continually. Whereas I don't know if women have that in them. Right, right.

And it would be- But then also there's the masculine sex drive. Right, right. So there's that. Right, so it'd feel like, oh, for a man to reject a woman, there's something weird going on. Right. Something deeply weird. Yeah. But no, I mean, I honestly agree that women should be.

And that's why I say I also said like I made that caveat without any good reason. Right. You see, there are reasons to abstain. Yeah, I kind of get the sense that a lot of Catholics still believe that the woke left is friendable. Yeah. And I think that's true.

Like I had these T shirts that came out for gay month and it said, reclaim the month with a sacred heart. I mean, how inoffensive can you be? And Catholics were pulling their hair out. They're going to hate what I'm going to drop next June. Do you have it already? No, but it's going to be so offensive. But in the best way, I'll tell you about it later.

Peeking my curiosity. Yeah. But just pulling their hair out, like as if you would capitalize on this month to make fun of people. I'm like, well, first of all, I don't want to waste 90% of my breath explaining to you that I'm not making fun of people because you should know that or you're an idiot and not worth talking to. But two, I'm fine making fun of people

who are trying to perpetuate debauchery and licentiousness in our culture. Fine with that. But it was just- Well, it's making fun of a movement, right? It seems like you're making- Yes, of course. Of course, obviously no Catholic would ever

make fun of anybody. The same sex attraction or gender dysphoria, like they need help, we love them. That's all we've ever said. But it's almost like the woke left are telling us, well, if you just keep saying those nice things without any criticism, that's the only way you can be loving.

So we know there's gonna be criticism. I saw that a lot in 2020, 2021, where, so on theology poem Instagram, we would get angry Catholic mommies who thought, if we criticize Pride Month or CRT or something that, you know, we are the exact reaction you're talking about. And in some ways, we get that a lot less now. Maybe those ladies just all unfollowed us or just we, you know, have called to herd. But I think that there is, there must be more of an awakening, I think, amongst, I mean, there's a more of an

awakening of broadly, but amongst Catholics too, where they realize, okay,, you know, there's we've been manipulate. You don't agree. I agree completely. I think the overstep of the woke has like risen up the normal people like it's like today I see Catholics saying, of course, like it's not a marriage. Like it's ridiculous. Like, of course, it shouldn't be something that we recognize as a state. And of course, abortion is murder. And of course, sodomy is gross. And of course, you should find two men kissing disgusting. But I think 15 years ago, we wouldn't have said those things. No. Whereas today, I think, like, obviously. So it feels like both people are becoming more vocal. Right. So it might be the misstep of the woke left that has caused the sane people as I would see it to be like, OK, no, no, done.

It's not a man. It's not a woman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, do you have do you have friends who are woke? Are you able to? What does what mean? What does what mean? I've already asked you that. But yeah, it's hard to now distinguish the woke from the Democrats, isn't it? I mean, Republicans suck as well. I'm not cheering on the Republicans, but if someone is woke, they're not voting Republicans. So it's easy. Unless they're like an old, older folk who kind of still aligns

with the old way Democrats used to be. But so. Yeah, I know people who vote consistently Democrat, but they are they don't they think transgenderism is insane. And so why I don't so I don't understand why they would continue to vote for Democrat. I think part of it is the same thing we were talking about earlier, that if you... I think our hatred for our political enemy is more compelling to us than almost anything

else in that decision. So the question for you I would ask is, when does someone become woke? Because you have friends who think transgenderism is insane so I presumably don't think they woke although maybe they're for abortion and maybe they're for something else. Yeah. Well some are pro even pro life and but they've they say they're pro-life but they always vote Democrat. What's the least I need to do to be woke in your book? I need to do to be woke in your book? Like if you knew something about me, what's the least I would need to accept of woke doctrine?

If you'd be like, yeah, I think like you're, you're a woke friend of mine. I think if someone was, well, the first thing comes to mind, if you were someone who would be affirming of the flags, right? BLM flag, cried flag, trans flag. That seems like, okay, you're, you're woke. I think if you wouldn't, if you would make a conscious decision to not like if somebody asked you, hey, will you hang this flag in your window or something,

you know, and you would say, no, I would not. Then you're probably not woke. These friends of yours who think trans stuff is crazy, would they would they hang the flags? I think they probably do a women's march. Yeah. That's a good question. I think they probably put the black square on their Instagram. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. I think for me, just since I'm not still not really sure the edges of what the definition of woke means, I suppose I would think that honestly, I would I would say someone's not work based on what they chose not to do. It's almost like if someone's not just readily going on with this rush of enthusiasm from the left about gay flags and BLM stuff. And if there was any kind of resistance, I'm like, OK, that's cool. When I think of someone who's work, I think someone who's just kind of given themselves

over to the current of this rushing stream to destruction. Well, maybe here's a distinction is that woke implies activism, right? You have to become an activist woke is not just a theory it It demands action. So it's just cool actions cool Yeah, right, but it's so much cooler than just living on a cul-de-sac and being a loser and not caring about anything So I get the appeal right right. It's a shortcut to virtue. All right, sure. I did that. Yeah Yeah, so I get that so do I have friends who are woke? I

Don't want to be close friends with anybody who would promote sodomy or these sorts of things I Interact with them and I'd be kind to them and I'd want to help them and love them, but I don't associate with people by choice for fun. But what if it's an old friend? Okay, good.

All right, I've got one in mind. Now what's the question? How do you navigate that? Well, I would navigate that by not talking about it because I don't think they could handle the conversation. To have the conversation, to ask the question is to be an enemy. Whereas for them, I really, really believe

that I'd be open to hearing them out. Like I wouldn't shut down, I wouldn't be defensive, I'd actually just be really interested, but I don't think they could handle the conversation. I think that's how a lot of people on the right of the spectrum feel. They're like, I'd actually just be really interested. But I don't think they could handle the conversation. I think that's how a lot of people on the right of the spectrum feel. They're like, I really am. Open this conversation, it just seems nuts to me.

Whereas the other person thinks to even like validate that as a reasonable line of questioning is to dialogue with a racist, homophobe, something. Right, and that's why it's so hard to maintain because I find pre-2020, those relationships were far easier to navigate. And I think in some ways, my friendships with people who think very differently, we kind of were smugly proud of ourselves. Like, oh, look at us. Reached across the aisle loving each other despite. And then something shifted. And I think that's what you said is exactly right. That to disagree is to be bad.

Whereas I think on the right are, we have a principle that disagreement doesn't make you some, an object of evil or an evil person. The problem with the right too is that it's like this, it's this slow drag towards the left. And so you've got Trump seemingly not having much of a problem with trans staff, with gay staff with. And so you don't want to just look at the woke left and go, oh, and then

jump on the Republican bandwagon for a whole host of reasons either, obviously. To be reactionary or something. Yeah. Because they're also being dragged into the insanity. Like, I don't know how many, even people like Ben Shapiro, I would like to hear a full throated acknowledgement that, I would like to hear a full-throated acknowledgement that gay marriage isn't a thing and is bad for society and that sodomy is icky.

Yes, it's gross. Like, I would like to hear those sorts of things, but instead I hear him saying, look, I'm a Jew. I think lots of things are sins. Well, do you think it's a strategic choice at some point? Maybe. Yeah. Yeah, I think he's doing a lot of good. I think you want to have a-

I'm not impugning the fella, but- Yeah, yeah. But then see, the problem with being too strategic is. If YouTube is the city, the town square where we all hear ideas together and we all choose to be strategic so we don't lose our money, then no one's hearing truth in the town square anymore. No one's hearing it. Something said, well,

to not lose money, I think is certainly probably compelling a lot of people. But I do think that there is. So do you know James Lindsay? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know him personally, but. We went to did a conference together recently, and he's fun. We had a lot of good conversations, but what he's very adamant that and, you know, obviously he's an atheist, so he doesn't have these moral convictions, particularly regarding marriage and even abortion. He, I don't think he would say he's pro-life, but anyway, I'm not sure.

But he would say that the way you win and defeat the woke movement is by, you have to have, you have to bring people over who are kind of on the fence, right? And you're not gonna bring them over by, and that the part of the woke strategy is they want us to become so reactionary that we double down on the part things that we believe

that are going to totally disenfranchise that center. I mean, obviously I, there's something distasteful about conservatives always appealing to the center because as you say, dilutes our message. But I think his point would be that there is an urgency right now because it's communism. To extend the tent. We just have to beat it.

Of what the right is to bring people in. Right. And you don't want to try to win at this, expense of your principles, obviously. But anyway, his point is just that there's there's a strategy on their side to make us become something that is untenable for so many people that we just marginalize ourselves too much and then they can take all the power.

Yeah, that's a good point. What do you think, Thursday? Sorry, I'm sorry. So the idea, right, is like on the left, there is a clear strategy to kind of unite the clans over there and then to kind of like gaslight those on the right so that they're kind of unwelcoming to people who hold anything less than the purest of. Yeah, we on people who aren't woke and want to kind of give people an off ramp, like this is insane And you can say that because I have been heartened to see more You know conservative commentators put a spotlight on people like JK Rowling and others who will stand up against the world Yeah, even though they would believe some things that we would consider quite egregious, right?

So how do you kind of bring these people into the tent and celebrate them without differentiation between letting people giving people an off ramp and saying that they're in the big tent for the big tent movement? Because I, I would pretty strongly object to like even a lot of people who like might be considered conservatives by the majority of probably our audience, I would strongly object to considering them like a voice for conservatism. And so I think what we need to be doing is acknowledging where people get things right, but not calling that conservatism, because if we allow conservatism to be defined by disagreement with insane principles, we actually don't have principles of our own. Right.

Like, I remember the other day I I heard somebody say something like that. Oh, it was so we posted a short about Mormonism, right? And somebody said that because it was so aggressive that they would they were more likely to consider Mormonism now. Right. And my my immediate thought, you know, I didn't post this or anything, but my immediate thought was what you've just told me is that you're not thinking for yourself, but you're not letting other people think for you. You're and you are letting us think for you.

You're letting us think for you because you're just saying the opposite of whatever we say. And if we make the the Big Tent movement just whoever disagrees with the left on one issue, we don't have principles and therefore it becomes impossible for us to win because we don't have a goal. We don't have a teleology for what we're working towards. I think that's right. So there has to be a differentiation between acknowledging when people get things right so that they can have the off ramp and welcoming them into the fold. Pricing them.

Yeah. We just have to make distinctions, you know, and distinctions are crucial. So when feminists fight against the transgender thing, then we say, yes, let's let's hear you out, give you a voice, give you a platform. But we can also say, you know, bluntly that we know feminism is not the answer, right? It's in some ways laid the foundations of the transgender movement. But here's a good example of what I think that where I think that I think James is a

strong point is that when there was a conversation that was being had about I don't remember what happened, but something happened that galvanized some sort of national conversation around the transgender movement. And obviously there's a lot of momentum in fighting that because for example, D-transitioners are really hard to deny, right? They, in their very bodies,

testify to the fact that they fully embrace this movement. And so, and then in their very bodies, testify to the horror of it and the pain and the suffering that it induces or it causes. And all of a sudden, the conversation became about how some government, I think in Uganda, was saying that you're going to go to jail if you're if you're homosexual. And so a lot of people on the left were like, let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. What's happening in Uganda? And that was a manipulation. And I don't think it's sacrificing of our principles to say, no, this is what we're talking about right now. You cannot deflect from the fact that you're mutilating children in order to all of a sudden hype up this other thing as a distraction. You know, and so I think that's a real tactic and strategy that we have to be aware of and wary of, right?

Yeah. Keep the conversation focused on what they're doing rather than keeping, letting them put us on the defensive all the time. It's so hard to believe that Charlie. We also, I think we also, before you move on, we need to be sure we differentiate between libertarians and conservatives.

Yeah. Because I don't think Tim Poole is a conservative. Right, you know who that is? I know who he is, but I've actually never listened to his show. You should commentate it. No, I certainly wouldn't call him conservative. I think we have a lot of libertarians who have big platforms who we call conservative because we want big platforms to speak our views.

Yeah. And that is what dilutes conservatism with libertarianism. And Seamus said this really well when he was on the show that we're not for small government or for effective government. And a lot of times that means it needs to be smaller than it is now. But if you make the principle small government, then where government intervention is necessary, you are throwing it out and throwing out the possibility of it happening.

Yeah. Sorry. No, no, no. I think that's totally right. And that's, you know, there's an element of the conservatives party that's just always wanting to go back to Ronald Reagan, you know, and I love Ronald Reagan, but we need to deal with what we're dealing with now. It's wild to think that child mutilation is something that's widely accepted on the left. When it was the left 20 years ago, who were referring to circumcision as mutilation. as mutilation. I don't know if you remember being a boy in Australia. OK. And whenever America whenever they want like a wild story that I always choose a yank, you know, because Americans are very dramatic and have these very dramatic. So this guy was getting on and kind of crying about the child abuse of being circumcised. And I was like, that's never really thought of it. But fair enough, I guess. Kind of weird. I didn't know that the left was to crying

that. I mean, it seems like a kind of a natural hippie-ish kind of thing. Well, maybe I shouldn't say the left. They can cross categories. Put it this way, I'm not sure if it was the right. Like I wouldn't imagine someone who's conservative going on public national television and crying about being abused as a child for that happening.

I would. Yeah. You would? 100%. 100%, I would do that. Okay. Yeah. But it is wild that we got here. So grateful to Matt Walsh and the work that he's doing to help put a spotlight on insanity Yeah, yeah people are finding their voice and people are standing up well, and that's it goes to your point about the your June month thing is that

I think that we are so prone to saying like, okay, you know our We have to be concerned with souls and so we have to treat people with love and kindness and all of these things. But when it's so insane that you have to make a mockery in order to reveal the insanity sometimes, right? And I think that's what Matt Walsh does so effectively. Well, for so many years I spoke on the topic of pornography and I would gladly mock pornography. It's a very immasculine action. It's definition of emasculation, right?

Going to a strip club and paying a woman money to pretend to like you. While you feel super manly and the big neon signs as gentlemen's like, yes, gosh, talk about manipulation and wanting to believe what isn't so. So I think it's one thing to mock the sin. But obviously, like, so when I do that, when I mock pornography, I don't tend to have. Susan Catholics telling me how dare you have to love race people. It's like, why? But why would you ever think, they don't think that in that circumstance. Right, that's a good point. But they do think it in the trans gay circumstance

because they bought the belief that your identity is your attraction or your attraction is your identity or something. Right, and a man engaging pornography is a symbol of oppression in the ideology, right? So they're not sympathetic, even though, you know, there might be real enslavement there that deserves compassion and they need to be helped with their struggle.

That's a very different category than the person who is enslaved by a different sort of sin. Because I don't know if it would need to always be that way. I think if the left started talking about like, porno sexuals or something and people started identifying as this and started waving a flag and identifying it. Like how many seconds are we away from this happening? And then I started mocking pornography. Then I think you'd start to get a lot of people being like, that's just mean. You shouldn't people have this. Maybe.

Yeah, we get brainwashed into believing this. Yeah, I wrote an article about that actually when we had a bunch of backlash because I defended some article that Karl, excellent article that Karl Truman wrote about Pride Month and all these women were saying, you know, I think it's okay to accompany my brothers and sisters who have same sex attraction in pride in a pride parade because I'm walking with them. I'm supporting them.

And I just said, would you do that? What if there's like a adulterous male parade or a white supremacy parade? would you say, well, I hate your white supremacy, but I love you and I want to accompany you. We would never. I mean, there's so many absurdities. So what is something from your book that people resonate with the most? So when you give a talk at Franciscan or elsewhere, they come up, is it, is there something specific

that you think you put your finger on that hasn't already been said? Or was it more that you just kind of got ahead of the game and published a book on this right when it was taken off? I feel like the the comment I get

the most is that it was more of a general generally helpful and helping them see through what was happening. But I guess one thing that I've had strong reactions to, positively, and maybe there are negative reactions that I'm just not hearing, but was the idea of, and James talks about this too, but that innocence is a form of dominance. So in chapter seven, I kind of tried to dive into more of the spiritual undercurrents of the

movement. And so I talked about transgender story hours. And that was a big thing in 2020. I think that's right after like Sarah Bimari and David French got in that big fight about whether conservatives can be okay in a libertarian way with transgender story hours in libraries. And now of course, it's you know exploded there's you know that's it's in the it's like at lunch and at school and stuff. But the idea being that you know the ostensible reason that the left gives for doing that sort of thing is that we

want to teach kids to not be bullies. It's an anti bullying movement and so you have to let kids see and sort of normalize it in their perception so that they don't grow up being mean. The second reason is that there might be a child in the room who is prone to this sort of lifestyle or identifying this way, and you wanna give them a path forward and show them how model it for them. But the deeper reason I think is that

the fact that children are innocent of the lifestyle is creating a hegemony of cis normativity or what have you, or sexual normativity. The innocence of the child points to a standard. It shames us, and we all have that. When we are feeling guilt or shame about something in our lives, and then we're around someone who's really good

and really pure. It makes us want to face our own struggle, or it should, and then triumph over it and be better. But if we don't want to face it, then it makes us angry. Right? Innocence is like the most offensive thing someone can say is the truth you're trying to silence in yourself. Right?

So, I think that, so for the movement, I think their innocence is an affront to everything is the truth you're trying to silence in yourself. Right. So. So I think that so for the movement, I think their innocence is an affront to everything that they stand for. Right. And you have to target the innocence of children. Really good. So people tend to react a lot to that. Yeah, yeah. There's a reason when I was doing crummy things in high school, I enjoyed hanging around people that were as crummy or crummier than I was.

Yeah. Because it made me feel better. Yeah. I'm not like that. But that's exactly right. If I encounter somebody who's engaged in a virtuous lifestyle and I don't want to change, then they're a threat to me. Yeah. Yeah, I have to think that about these these lovely women who've been lied to in this society. We'll have people who are watching who've had abortions, eh?

And God bless you, you beautiful woman. People have done evil things. Women who've had abortions have done evil things. Men who have faltered at their post and encouraged abortion have done an evil thing. But you think if you've done something that evil, like you've killed your child, you paid someone to kill your child, that's beyond wicked. You have two options ahead of you, right? You acknowledge the sin

and repent. You don't have to call it a sin if you're not a religious person, but you acknowledge the wrong and feel sorry for it. Or you double down on why this was a good decision and look at all the good things it's led

to. And there's an enemy group who are trying to silence other women. And so I'm going to be an advocate for them. And so, I mean, out of those two options, which one seems easier? Obviously, the latter. But long term, it's the harder. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that's why there's so much rage, right. At pro-life marches. And it's just maybe an obvious point, but it's women who are deeply trying to quiet their own horror at the act they've done. And same thing with the transgender movement. One of the things that will keep perpetuated is that the people who are complicit in it, the parents in particular, will take an immense amount of grace in order for them to look squarely at the horror that they

aided and invented in their own child. Yeah, you're gonna acknowledge that you just chased after a butcher your child? You're gonna do that? Holy crap. Yeah, that's a big hard thing to face. Yeah, like psychological defense mechanisms and no joke. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Hey, I wanna say, did you- I was about to say, since we're're at a point would you do the ad?

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Fulfillment of All Desire. A lot of really good stuff, really well produced. And in fact, one thing, speaking about feeling threatened, when I signed up to this course, I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll do this Bible course. It's like, a thing comes up, how many hours a week would you like to devote to this? I'm like, damn it, I don't know if I'm that committed. Like you have to commit. So they make you kind of commit so that you it's this intentional thing that you're doing. So if you want to love scripture more, except for the fact that you don't want to love scripture more, this will help you want to want to love scripture more and you will end up doing it.

I think it's excellent. I think you should check it out. St. Paul's Center dot com slash Matt sign up over there for two weeks for free. If you don't like it, you can cancel it. Or you can just binge watch all of the courses and then cancel. If you want, you can do that. We're going to go on a break and then we're going to come back and take questions from locals and Super Chatters. Thank you. Any sinner is capable of being a great sinner The secret therefore of character development is the realization of this power that there is in each and every one of us. For good and for evil.

The good Lord would have us lay hold of what is worst in ourselves. Do not think that people who have virtue and kindness and other great talents just came by these things naturally. They had to work at them very hard. Any sinner is capable of being a great sinner. The secret therefore of character development is the realization of this power that there is in each and every one of us. For good and for evil The good Lord would have us lay hold of what is worst in ourselves

Do not think that people who have virtue and kindness and other great talents just came by these things naturally They had to work at them very hard Very hard, Captain. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Oh, we're live now. I get it.

I get it. Yes. All right. So you asked me to bring whiskey and so I did. And thoughts on whiskey? Do you like certain types of whiskey? You said you don't really. So I know tequila and gin, but whiskey is usually when some male in my friend of her in our circle will bring

some and then I will enjoy it. So I'm an idiot about I know I don't like maker's mark. Okay. But I'm of the opinion that all bourbons are identical okay and whoever says they aren't is a liar okay and a dirty one okay a pretentious one maybe. I think A pretentious one, maybe. I think, yeah, pretentious, dirty, lie to dirty still there. I think that if the percentage of alcohol is the same and it's, let's say, bourbon and not like rye whiskey. Then there's no there's no difference. I would gladly get a 12 dollar 12 dollar bottle of bourbon over a 50 dollar one.

And I think that's me. Yeah, and I'm right So you should believe I don't have a super sophisticated palates. You're wrong. He thinks I'm wrong. Okay. All right Well with bourbon in particular, so this is Blanton's again. It's as good as a $12 bottle, but apparently people are super into it. Okay You know wait wasted on my unsophisticated palette. Yep, see, I do like I think there's a wide variety of difference between Scotches. I think I like Petey Scotches, you know, Lagervulla and that kind of thing. So I think there's room to have strong opinions about Scotch. OK, I don't.

What about tequila? I have strong opinions. I really like Moscow. Yeah, I really like Moscow. So I guess I have. Yeah. What are your strong opinions about? I like Claes Azul, the blue and white pottery. It's really iconic bottle looks like ceramic.

OK, blue and white pottery. Yeah. Amazing. My favorite for to Lasa. So when you drink different tequilas, you can I think I can tell too. Yeah, I can tell with tequila more than any other spirit. So I want to say thank you to this local supporter, Flavio Korea, Korea from Tampa, Florida. We were just about to go live and someone knocked on the door and there was a parcel that arrived at the door. And so he sent us some whiskey, just not whiskey. But let's see. What is this?

I'm originally from Brazil. I'm also sending you some cachaça. I don't know how to cachaça. I don't know. Cachaça. I don't know. And I guess it's a Brazilian specialty spirit.

So I'm going to try that. And then I'll try some bourbon. I was in Guatemala, Guatemala for six weeks this year. OK, and so I was drinking tequila when I would drink, you know, or I would have some mezcal and I loved it. But I just got to a point where I missed bourbon

and scotch is not the same. I didn't want scotch, I wanted bourbon. Something nice about the bourbon. What were you doing in Guatemala? We were just hanging out there. My wife has, she doesn't handle the winter very well. I don't know. Okay. So we were like, let's go somewhere warmer.

So we went and hung out there for a bit. That's great. Yeah, well, cheers. Cheers. Here we go. Brazilian. Oh, wow. Holy mackerel, that's good. This is really good.

Is it? This is excellent. So there you go. That's good stuff. So final thought on bourbon versus scotch. Bourbon is really good in summer with lots of ice because it's sweeter and it's delicious. But when it's like cold outside,

a nice lager bolognese kind of- Whiskey time. Scotch, Scotch. Yeah, Scotch whiskey. If you're in the mood, you have to be in an emotional mood for this. I have to at least, but Ardbeg, I mean, there's so much pee in Ardbeg, but if I'm in the right like emotional mood for this. I have to at least. But Ardbeg, I mean, there's so much

pee in Ardbeg, but if I'm in the right like emotional state for it, it's amazing. If someone's just made fun of me and I need to feel better. Ardbeg time. I want to, you know. Well, this is really good. Thank you, whoever, for Flavio for sending me this Brazilian. It's that line in Kanye drinking Ardbeg is I put my hand in the stove on the stove to see if I still breathe I feel like this room feels like a whiskey drinking room. Well, that's cool. You say that I when I designed it I wanted to feel like a nook in a pub. Yeah

Yeah, so I'm glad you got there. I want you to try this after you've done that. Okay. No pressure to keep drinking Yeah. All right. Let's see. You're gonna take some questions from local supporters as well as super chatters. How do you deal, says Liesl, with corruption in Catholic schools? It seems like almost every Catholic, quote unquote, university nowadays has fully bought into wokeness with pride flags, trans activists, and pronouns.

You transfer. No, I don't know. I mean, you have to- No, that's great advice, I think. If you're gonna stick with it, you gotta, I guess you have to link arms with other people and try to resist it. Write letters to the bishop.

No, I'm a big fan of abandoning things. Like, oh, but my parents and grandparents went to this school. Cool, it's now crap, abandon it. It's on fire. That lineage doesn't mean that much with regard to the school choice now. Especially if you're the salvation of your children are at crap. Abandon it. It's on fire. Yeah. That lineage doesn't mean that much with regard to the school choice now. Especially if you're the salvation of your children are at stake. Yeah. Yeah. I've worked with some parents at schools, Catholic schools in particular,

that have really tried to fight it. And some of them have had some success. And what I was just saying, get your kids out. And they had that exact quandary. They loved the school. They're, they were like third generations there, and they fought it really admirably, but it takes a lot of effort and you have to maintain a lot of effort. And parents oftentimes, you know, once their kids graduate, they're not going to keep fighting that school, and so you have to keep that momentum going. And it's very difficult to have that be sustainable resistance. Kyle Whittington says, it seems that when you push back

against wokeism, the risk is total isolation and unemployability. How do you balance defending the truth and remaining prudent, protecting your livelihood? Well, that gets back to that prudence question. So prudence, I love thinking about how much it can masquerade itself as something bad. Like when you were talking earlier about prudence versus cowardice,

but there's also prudence versus fear. Like people oftentimes say, oh, you're being paranoid or fearful. Like, no, I'm being prudent. So I do think that there is an element of prudence and, you know, man, I can't just walk into his company and just tell the HR department that he thinks they're all bunk or something and declare his beliefs, but nor can he participate with lies, right? So if you can't go along with putting his pronouns in his, whatever at the office or on LinkedIn or something.

So I do think that you have to, you can't blow up your life, especially when you're supporting a family. But don't participate in blatant lies. Don't actually participate in lies. I had a friend who lives in Georgia who asked me my opinion on this. He was part of a big company meeting and ever all the white people had to talk about how they've experienced privilege. What would you suggest to him?

Oh, that's a difficult one. I think I would try not to be part of that at all because it's so toxic. You know, that's just, it's... It is such a toxic effort to identify yourself in a collectivized way. But I can imagine if the gun was, you know, if you really felt like your job was on the line, there's a way to do it that it's not speaking into a lie, right? You could say, you know, there are things I've not experienced, there's truth there, right? There are things that you don't experience when you're white,

that you experience when you're black. That's just true. And vice versa. And vice versa. So you could participate in that without, I think, moral complicity. But I can also see where it would be really courageous and admirable if someone said, you know what, this is BS and I'm not doing it. Yeah, this is BS. You know it's BS. Yeah. And you've got to alter your motives, you know?

Travis Goldie says, what do we Catholics do when we find ourselves allying with patriotic and conservative groups that react to the woke movement with wrath and hate? Who does that? You know, one, I don't know. Then with virtue, how do you avoid losing charity for neighbor while taking on the left? Maybe that's a good general question. One distinction that I sometimes will make is that I think is helpful is, well, there's a scene in the sixth sense

when you're introduced to the mental illness, Munchausen syndrome by proxy, you know, Haley Joel Osment, I can see dead people, he encounters a girl who has passed away. Anyway, if you think about the disease or its mental illness, Munchausen syndrome by proxy, there are three people- Okay, I'm sorry, you have to explain what that is.

It sounds so cool. Oh, sorry, I just assumed people know about it. No, I don't. People might, but I don't, yeah. So it's this really disturbing mental illness where a caregiver, oftentimes a mother, usually a mother, causes, exaggerates, invents sickness in her child,

and oftentimes causes it. So in the scene, the movie, she, the little girl's died and she gives her father, or she gives Haley Joel Osment, the character who can see dead people, a videotape, give this to my father at my wake, have him play it. And in this videotape, you see that the mother was poisoning her food. So there are multiple people in this story, the child, the father, and the mother. The child is a total victim of the poison and needs, you know, would have needed healing and help. The father was an unwitting participant. You know, he was not complicit with not because he had no knowledge. And the mother was the sinister actor or maybe disturbed actor. So I now I said to the woke movement that there are people in the movement who

have adopted the poison but they've really been they're really victims of this movement right either through wounds that have been manipulated or through lies and you know for me in deformation that they rub with then there are people who think this is movement of goodwill don't understand the actual ends and maybe they have negligence and not knowing, but they're more sympathetic. They just kind of need to be enlightened. And then there are people who just need to be stopped. And I think that as Christians, we can make the mistake of seeing the victim as our enemy,

or we can make the other mistake as seeing the people who are the sinister actors of people. We just need to accompany. We just need to befriend them. Some people just need to be stopped. So I think we have to understand it in that kind of nuanced way. That's really helpful.

It's a helpful analogy, thank you. Yeah, certainly we can be unsympathetic. You can imagine somebody who's having to undergo all of this propaganda through their favorite movies, through the NFL, through the NBA, and they're just so tired of it that it makes them callous to somebody's real pain of gender dysphoria

or same sex attraction. And that's not a place we wanna be as Christians. We wanna love people and try to understand their stories. So that's good. But on the other side of the spectrum, there are enemies that exist. And it's funny to me that in the church today, I think most, I'm gonna go out on a limb here, I'm not accusing anyone

specifically, but I'd be surprised to see bishops say that there is enemies of the church who are within and without it. And yet, if you look at that beautiful prayer on the miraculous medal which you're wearing right now, it says, American see without sin pray for us who have recourse to thee. but the full prayer is, and for those who do not have recourse to thee, especially the enemies of the church and those we recommend to thee. So there are enemies of the church, unless you want to disagree with this private revelation if you, um,

and I just don't see a lot of people calling those enemies out. I was, I was, I was, I was gratified to see Bishop Barron speak strongly against those. The sisters of perpetual indulgence. The gross people. Yeah. Yeah. And Bishop Strickland, he came out to LA and was part of the.

Yeah, so glad to see that. But we have to, in order to fight the enemy, you have to name it. And sometimes that, and you name the enemy not to destroy the enemy, but to protect the flock and then to, if God will allow it, to convert the enemy, I suppose. Yeah. When you have to look at things with reality, right? And part of that reality is that there are real enemies. Erin says, I saw that some of your books are about theology of the home.

What is that? Convince me to spend some money for the books, she says. Yeah. So theology of home, we have three books and we have a fourth one coming out now, which actually a lovely woman who works with us now, Emily Malloy, has written. So the idea is that, well, the idea is that, so my co-author, Carrie Grasse, she is a prolific Catholic writer. She's written a bunch of books like The Anti-Mary Exposed. She's got a new book coming out with Regnery called The End of Women. You should have her on your show. How Smashing the Patriarchy has destroyed us. Can you please put her in touch with me? Yeah. Yes. But so we started Theology of Home with the idea that thinking about how we both are passionate about fighting things that are wrong, right? Feminism, wokeism, but that the ideologues have

captured the culture so much through capturing the cultural imagination. And I think as Catholics, sometimes we write that off as kind of fluff and we want to do, you know, our intellectual work and have think tanks and apologetics, all which are great. I'm part of a think tank and I like, love apologetics, but we can't see that space to an ideological movement. So, it was an effort to say, okay, we can't just that space to an ideological movement.

So it was an effort to say, okay, we can't just tell what is good, we have to show what is good, right? People need to see something embodied in order to understand that it's beautiful. And so the books have, we have a heavy emphasis on beautiful photography, showing families,

showing fathers who are competent and strong and holding a baby and women who are pregnant and, you know, just trying to and then, you know, the words are substantive to talking about the meaning of home, why that's such a universal longing and why we all desire it. Her follow up question is how do you see women living out their feminine genius in diverse ways? Well, in the Ultra Film 2, we actually make a real effort to address that. How do you see women living out their feminine genius in diverse ways? Well, in the Alchemy film, too, we actually make a real effort to address that. So we profile a variety of women, women who are infertile, women who are never married,

women who are religious, women who have a gaggle of children, women who are great grandmothers. So I think that the common thread is that an openness to serving and being fruitful, that that's a particular fruit of serving our Lord as a woman is that we bear fruit in our lives. And it's not necessarily biological, it can be through mentorship or spiritual fruits. But women, I think, have a specific desire

to be vulnerable in a way that brings people into ourselves and into our homes and then helps to transform them by us being instruments of what our Lord wants to do in their lives. So we contain, you know, we that, you know, an old idea, but we hold people within ourselves in our prayer life, in our minds and our hearts. Isaac, I'm not going to try his last name. He gave us $10. Thank you so much.

I just don't want to butcher it. I'm so blind. He says, can Noel and Matt comment on stay at home dads like myself? I stepped into this role due to my wife's health issues. I often feel discouraged. I'm sure other men do too. Yeah, I mean, I think that that can be done well

and beautifully. I think it's probably harder because it's just there's more present challenges, I think, to switching those roles up. But I think one thing that we have as Catholics that's different than Protestants is that when we talk about male-female roles, we often are talking about it more in a more deeply iconography, like a deeper way. So I think it's not so much about roles and relegation. I think like my husband, we first got married,

he is a far better cook and he cooks most of the meals, even to this day. And I'm really, I can be a can do person about home improvement. So I'll like hard wire a light fixture. But I didn't feel like I was doing that. That meant that I was manly or that meant he was feminine. It just, you know, we hold those roles in a deeper way. So I think that you can probably do it very well.

And I would never say that there should never be a stay-at-home father. Sometimes circumstances just demand that. Yeah. And I would say what you're doing, I mean, as someone who has a wife with a lot of health issues, like it sounds like you're stepping into a role that's quite sacrificial. Yeah. It might not be something you would choose, but it's something that's been chosen for you, something that's been placed upon you in a similar way to a woman who's infertile. It's not something she would choose, but a woman can bear that cross more or less heroically.

And it's a difficult thing. I'm not comparing your saying at home with the woman being infertile. It's a different cross, obviously. But but bless you. Like, I don't know. I think to and it's got to be hard to if this fellow is watching a lot of videos that like are really pushing back hard against the left narrative that men and women are interchangeable. Right. And so they often speak in ways that like if if you're, if you're at home,

like you must be a beta male or something like this. I would just wouldn't listen to that. Can I ask a related question? So I was talking to a friend of ours the other day, Matt, about this topic, and he pointed out, and this is really interesting, and I never heard this point before, that for the majority of Catholic history in like the peasant era, like the Christendom era, both the man and the woman

stayed at home actually. And, and the, they, they did the work together, right? Like they, they, they were working on land in the home together, working on the home together. And the differentiation between men should go out and women should stay at home is, is actually an artificial one in of itself. And so I think I'm wondering if we need to be more careful as Catholics when we're talking about who should stay at home, that what we need to be more careful as Catholics, when we're talking about who should stay at home, that what we need to be doing is, is being more forward that what we're actually trying to achieve is a, is a family which is building a home together in different roles.

Because for the majority of Christian history, it was both of them at home doing it together. Yeah. Or a short walk distance. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like to say that the men should be going off to the office, the woman should be sat at home is not to be trad enough. You're saying? Well, not even that. But like when we talk about it, we talk about it as if like forever, like men went out and women stayed in the stayed in the home and stayed in the

kitchen. But what, what, what did that look like was something more like what, what your friend and my new new friend John Henry does right? Like where he homesteads right? We're like he's out doing the like the killing in the and the farming and she's in the home On the other end of that they're they're working they're doing the same work at different points and I think a lot of the women stay at home pairs it as if it's two different works, but I and I think that's why where we get mixed up is we need to start realizing that it's the same work

being done on different levels and different ways. And you can have that unity of purpose even if the husband does go to the office, right? I think in some ways that's where feminism really feeds off of an idea that the man's work in the office is his actual purpose. And then that slips into seeing a secondary his home life and so then women think well if what you're

doing out there is far more important then what does that mean for what I'm doing here and so maybe I should desire that as well and so even if you are a man who is doing that more traditional role of going out to the office and the wife is staying home there still is a need to for both parties to see that their common shared goal and priority is the home life and that the office is for the sake of that life. Yeah, cool. And do I try the Brazilian? If you want.

Oh, wow. Look at you. All right. So here we go again. This is Jambu. He told me how to pronounce this, which was very kind of him. Cachaca, they actually think of that different. I've never had anything like this before, so I'm curious. Massive thanks.

I'm curious, too. And that weird. Oh, it's so different. It's good. But it's joyful. Yeah, I like it. Go Brazil. Thank you, Brazil it's enjoyable. Yeah, I like it. Go Brazil. Thank you, Brazil. All right. Daedalus project says early on, you were talking about

how to navigate work friends. Matt said he's not sure the friend could handle it, but he would be willing to hear the guy out. I think this comes from the left being kind of decent at perceiving some social problems, but horrific at solving them. Where the right solves things, but so long as machine is functional, they don't go looking for problems. That's interesting. I'm not sure if I totally understand the distinction.

Are those who we would typically consider on the right of the political spectrum? More problem solvers? Are they interested in the social injustices that are taking place in their town? Or do they tend just to have a bigger picture and just like write people off who are having a hard time, is not working hard enough, you know, whereas maybe those on the left, I think I got those right, are perhaps more tender hearted and more open to the sufferings of people. Yeah, there's probably something true there for certain.

And that goes back to maybe a reactionary element where if you feel that social injustices are used as a manipulation tactic, then it's probably easier to become callous towards them. And that is something to be wary about. Someone just said of the drink that we're drinking, they this it numbs the tongue, but it's not delicious. What does that mean? It does numb the Brazilian one.

Yeah, my tongue's a little numb. It's 93% alcohol. I should have told you. It's not really. It's not really. 100% believed you. It's like, what is happening over there? Oh, no, dear Lord.

I'm pushing the off button now. It's not really. I 100% believed you. I was like, what is happening over there? You're like, oh no, dear Lord. I'm pushing the off button now. Get them off of mine. They're going to say too much. So what stuff are you working on these days? Are you still like, do you feel like you've been kind of, I guess, sometimes people can feel pigeonholed into topics, even if they're very passionate about them.

Yeah. Are you still as passionate about this topic as you were? Has it evolved? Are you thinking of going in other areas? I'm sort of obsessively passionate about the woke stuff, but I I have had in my mind for the last year or so to write a book about fatherhood. And it's something I've been writing articles and speaking about more. So it's hard to have that much fire in your belly to write another book. Writing book writing is it's consuming. And I much fire in your belly to write another book. Book writing is consuming and I want to make sure my family is okay with that.

But Carrie and I do daily work on Theology of Home. We've got a website that we maintain and newsletter and aggregate email and store and original content. So that is a project that keeps me busy. And then public speaking is a a project keeps me busy. And then public speaking is a project keeps me busy. But yeah, I guess that the book is the thing that is lingering in my mind. Like, when do I do that? And do I? Because I think a lot of people are thinking about now. So maybe someone else who's far more intelligent will write that book. And I won't need to. But I do really love thinking and

talking about fatherhood. Well, sometimes we read and study and write and it can stress us out. And one thing that can help us with stress is hallo.com. Yeah, you get three months for free. If you sign up over there, it's the number one downloaded Catholic app on the web. It'll teach you how to pray. It'll pray through the rosary. It has sleep stories. It has my Catholic lo-fi and other beautiful chant and songs that you can listen to. It has book studies. It has daily meditations-fi and other beautiful chant and songs that you can listen to it as book studies It has daily meditations on the Gospels with doctor not doctor Jeff Kavens I feel like we might have actually heard his feelings We might have to we're about to release a video with Jeff in a couple weeks So Jeff because you guys we don't release this in a few weeks

So people haven't seen this yet. So we had Jeff Kavenans on yesterday, two days ago, three days ago. Wonderful fellow. Very funny, very dry sense of humor. But he was playing like his daily meditations on the Halo app. And both Thursday and I immediately like, it sounds like you're performing. Like it sounds like you're like a Protestant pastor talking like this. And I was trying to make an innocent note that, well, that's difference in like generation, right? I think people my age and younger talk on a microphone, even to an audience, more like a podcaster. Like they're having a conversation. They're not like today we will talk about whatever. We'll go to Pines with Aquinas at 10. And so we said that to him and he was like,

then 10 minutes, I was like, you really think I sounded like that? Like, oh, we can't back down now. We're going to be honest. You asked us anyway. Hello.com slash Matt three months for free. If you sign up over on that website, please help me beat Laura Horn, who is also advertising. Hello, because she's only a woman. Hello.com slash Matt.

Honestly, she should just have trans code. I mean, she's just better than me. Her adverts are so much better. I have to somehow make, I don't know. Maybe not by making fun of her. It's probably the worst one. We should start doing a bit where she should, like where we say that she should have to use Trent's code

because he's the head of the household. They should have one code. I just discovered her because Trent was talking about her at this conference. How did you discover Laura Horne? Well, because he was talking, he's like, subscribe to my wife. He just said that to the room in general, not to me in particular. I thought it was a joke because I could subscribe to my wife. I don't know what that means.

But then somebody said, oh, she's got a YouTube channel. So I went back to the hotel that night. It's like, I'll check that out. And I was like, unprepared for how adorable she is. Adorable. Adorable. And hilarious. Yeah, Laura, call me. We'll hang out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's very, very good. She always texts me and my wife her new ideas. So we're always kind of, we're always in the end. We're always honored by that. Sweet. All right, any other questions come up? Anything else you want to talk about?

There was one I sent you on Slack. I don't know if you want to talk about it. Did I miss it? Above the super chat? I'd read it before you read it out loud. I'm okay talking about this because I have a lot of thoughts. Why are Christians for alcohol but not for cannabis? Considering cannabis has a wide range of botanical turponins?

I don't know. That produce wildly different smells and tastes across different strains. Do you have strong thoughts? I don't have strong thoughts, but my immediate thought, and this is maybe out of ignorance because cannabis is not something in my life,

but it seems to me that you can drink alcohol more moderately, but maybe that is a comment of ignorance. I think it is. In college, it felt like when people smoked pot, it was to get stoned or high. Yeah, I think you can regulate cannabis intake or THC or intake in a way, certainly today, that you couldn't have maybe 30, 40 years ago

because of how it's being produced. Does the church have a official position on cannabis? I would say no. Okay. I would say. It would fall under like the legal thing though. So if it is illegal to use it recreationally where you are, then you are bound by that law.

That's not an unjust law. Right. I guess so. But if it's legal. So my thought was, I was on Michael Knowles's show a while back and this, the question of cannabis came up and I made a lot of- You called him racist. I made a lot of enemies. Yeah, I kind of did I make it made I I think a lot of our prejudice So I'm gonna change I'm gonna change one. Here was my opinion. I have a different one now

okay, so I was kind of of the opinion that we just we we are very negative about marijuana because I Just it didn't come from Western society. And as we associate it with like... I've read that opinion before. Different cultures, right? And I was like, I don't know, I just kind of, like I don't use the word racist much, but like it kind of feels like even if you want to say that Western society is the best society,

it doesn't mean we can't take from other people. And if your only argument is, right? Right. And I was leaving to the side questions about scientific evidence and research because those things get so political so quickly and I don't know how to navigate them. So I said, okay, if we just pretend that we're not, if we don't bring the evidence into the discussion, because you could probably debate for 20 hours about how marijuana is bad for

you or not as bad for you as you might think, right? And if I just say that getting high is a sin in the way that getting drunk is a sin, I was like, yeah, I think it's okay. Like I think it's probably okay to smoke marijuana. But I've changed my mind on that. And I have no good reason to change it. Will you tell me if you think it's good? Well, so you were saying that it was similar to alcohol.

Now you think it's different. I mean, what we have on the table here, Noelle, is poison. Right? It's flavorful poison, and it's really easy to kill yourself with it. Actually, it's not difficult to poison yourself to death with this stuff. And it creates all sorts of issues in the world. And it's yeah. Makes people aggressive or.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's all sorts of evil things, you know. And so I just whenever people criticize marijuana, I tend to think that that can cut both ways, except for what you just said, but I think that's false. I don't think it's true that you can smoke and not be high. Maybe generally you're right. Like, I think there's a point to what you're saying.

No, I was saying that when you smoke marijuana, you do it to get high. Oh, to get high. You weren't saying if you smoke it, you will get high and there's no kind of intermediate steps I guess I don't know enough about it to make that distinction Maybe I shouldn't be talking about it either because I don't know enough about it either, but I Don't know. I don't think that's true. I know people who smoke marijuana and not to get high. Yeah, but I think I don't like them So so here's here's here's what I mean about arguments that cut both ways.

Like when I think about marijuana people, I think about people who are probably into anime and who have purple hair. It's the culture. I don't want to associate with them. But then if you think about alcoholism or alcohol in certain circumstances, you could also think of a variety of characters who are also equally unpleasant in a different way. Yeah. So the question is, is it just that it's more normal? And so you understand alcohol to be a more social thing because it's socially more acceptable. And maybe if. So here's, here's my argument against marijuana. That's not convincing. I just think we live in a society where we like tearing down walls

and banishing taboos. And I don't want to contribute to that unless I've got a really compelling reason. And so since marijuana has been taboo and yes, I say this to you. No, I know who said it to me. It wasn't you. You may have backed it up. I feel like I said something very similar to you. Father Gregory Pine, who basically laid this out for me. So I don't have a good reason, but I just, I don't want to be part of that.

Like it's like Chesterton's thing, like don't tear down a wall unless you know what it's for first. So that's why I don't want to do it. And I suspect that we're going to see all sorts, not because I think it's intrinsically evil. Like that's not the argument. It's just that I think it's probably not good. Yeah. I think the cultural thing is a good argument, especially because like, if it's, if it's, if there's some like cultural norm in your society and you just want to tear it down and you're

just OK with it being torn down because there's no problem with the the reason like you if for marijuana, for example, like you can say, oh, there's no problem with it. This this and this. But like if it's a cultural norm in your society, it is a problem to tear down cultural norms. It's a destructive force. And especially when we see what is happening in our society when we tear down norms, I think saying that it would be a sin to contribute

to the tear down of norms and the furthering of that in our society, then I think it's perfectly acceptable to say that knowingly contributing to the destruction of norms in a society that is actively decomposing is a sin. Right especially when it's obvious that there is a fetishizing of tearing down norms you know yeah that's like the fetishizing transgressive behavior has to become boundary pushing because what's transgressive today is gonna be boring tomorrow. Everybody is freaking out about your anime comments I just

want to say that I'm that I'm not pro anime, but I do think there are some good animes. I agree. No, I'm not anti-anime. I'd like to be, because I think people who are anti-anime are cool, but I'm not. No, I think there are some,

I have watched anime before and been like, this is entertaining. I understand why people like it. It's like me in rap music. I don't like a lot of rap music. I don't like a lot of anime, but there are some of them that I watch and I'm like, okay, this is entertaining. I understand why this medium could be fun to consume.

Is it something you watch or is it a game? Oh, I love you. I love that you don't know what anime is. You are so much cooler than me on Thursday. Anime is the Japanese animation. I know that. Yeah, I knew that, but I didn't know if it was just a cartoon or something. It's like a style. Yeah, it's the art style. What if right now I gave a completely wrong definition just just a cartoon or something. It's like a style. Yeah, it's the art style. What if right now I gave a completely wrong definition

just to blow up the comments? It's kind of like Tolkien-esque. It's always about dragons. It's always about dragons. And it's always set in South Africa. Just something like that, just to see. No, I think there's some good animes. There are some animes that I have watched.

I enjoyed One Punch Man. What makes it good animes? One Punch Man. I've watched One Punch Man. I was entertained. Matt Walsh pretended not to like that recently, but I don't know. I don't think he was being truthful. I haven't seen all of One Punch Man, but I've seen some of it and thought it was entertaining. I haven't seen all of Attack on Titan, but I saw some of it. I liked it. I thought it was really entertaining. I started watching Vinland Saga recently. I really like Vinland Saga. It's so cool. I'm going to show it to you. I think you'll like it. And then the Ghibli movies. I think a lot of the Ghibli movies are great.

Let us know in the comments section what you think of anime and give us your best argument for or against marijuana and state that at the top so we know what we're about to read. That's a good idea. Maybe it would be good to kind of learn from people. What do you do for fun that's not impressive? That's not impressive? Yeah, so don't say like I read Dostoevsky in Russian or something. I'm not in a very... Okay, I've got one. I do karaoke. That's awesome.

I have gigs sometimes, you know, they don't expect that I'm coming and no one arranges it with me, but I just show up and do karaoke. Oh, that's your gig, yeah. And is this something you do like for fun with your husband after a few drinks? Like, hey, does it do karaoke or I do? Part of some sort of club? My husband does sometimes do karaoke, but it's more of my girlfriend's and I. OK. Yeah.

And you don't have to relax shortly. I mean, it's a fun thing. But what's that you do to relax? It's kind of like a common thing that you do to relax every night. Carioca. Nine p.m. Yeah, I know. I don't do that. Accept it. I bought a machine. That's what I said. I don't do that. Accept it.

I bought a machine. Something to do to relax. My husband and I just oftentimes, we like to go on, we do dates a lot because we've got babysitting age children for like last 10 years. So we probably date too much. No, I don't think so. We're just like, do you want to go out again tonight? I think it's probably more important that your relationship with your husband is terrific

than you being fixated on your relationship with any one kid. Yeah, I kind of think so too. We prioritize that we have fun together. So we like traveling together. So he'll often when I have this type of thing, he would have loved to have come with me on this trip, but he's flying with the kids to meet me for a family reunion. So he had to be home, but he travels with me, not in a significant for a family reunion, so he had to be home. But he travels with me, not in a significant portion of the time. And he'll just work from wherever. I've got a speaking gig, but we have a fire pit on our deck. We go out there often and we'll sit with a cup of tequila

and recap our day. I like a cup. Not a little shot, just a gigantic mug of tequila. We've just got a tumbler. All those hats with the... It's got a straw. And then we don't even have to use our hands. Yeah, I know. Who wants to do that?

Use your hands for the pot. That's a joke. What shows or movies do you watch that you enjoy? I loved Breaking Bad. I'm so glad you told me that you sometimes cry when you laugh. I know, because you just see me cry. Now I'm like crap, did I say something that told me that you sometimes cry when you laugh. I know because you see me cry. Now I'm like crap, did I say something that offended you? My eyes water whenever I laugh.

Tell me about your love for Breaking Bad. I think I've watched the whole series four times. Holy mackerel. A little bit. Can you use your time better? But no, I just loved it so much. I don't watch a ton of TV shows. I loved, movie wise, I loved The Hidden Life.

Maybe that's a little obvious Catholic thing to say, but I absolutely loved that movie. Remind me what that was. That was the... Bronze Jagerstater? Yeah, the blessed... I can't remember how to say his name. Bronze Jagerstater?

Bronze Jagerstater. Bronze Jagerstater. Bronze Jagermeister, just kidding. All right. He was a Nazi, a conscientious objector, and was ultimately a martyr. And the movie is stunningly beautiful. It's mostly silent.

And so the sounds take on an importance that they wouldn't normally. And it's characterized by sort of like chimes. Like they have the cowbells that tell, summon them to go work in the field. Like what Thursday was saying about that common life of the husband and wife that used to be united in that sort of work.

And then you hear the church bells, you know, summoning him to a life of oriented himself around the supernatural. And then ultimately like the chains around his, you know, the summoning him into a life of martyrdom. But it was, it's really beautifully executed movie. Yeah. Not a lot of tele, I can't think of the television. I mean, I, well,

the show I'm most obsessed with, obsessed with his comedians and cars, getting coffee. I've watched every episode. Cause I fall asleep watching to it sometimes because it comforts me. I love it. The best normal McDonnell joke was I'm asleep watching to it sometimes because it comforts me I love it the best normal McDonald joke was I'm gonna say it and you're gonna know it is and you can feel free to cut Me off is where he's talking about Bill Crosby. Yes, people say the worst thing is that the hypocrisy? Yes, they were saying I disagree you disagree. Yeah, I think it was the right end Cuz what rapist isn't a hypocrite like show me the Because what rapist isn't a hypocrite? Like, show me the rapist who's like, I sure do love the rapist.

It might be unacceptable. But at least he's not a hypocrite. That's right. No, it's not. I love that man. I love that man. Bless him. I never knew him.

So I guess I can't say I loved him. But yeah, yeah, it's hard. Like sometimes, like what I find tough about Norm MacDonald is he is so beautiful that when he gets dirty, I get really disgusted. I have the same reaction. Because it's like a loving uncle who you love and you like, I love you. But then when he talks like that, you're like, it's not good in any way. I wish you wouldn't have done that. I have the exact same reaction. And I think I should be okay with this. He's a comedian, but yeah, it's, it's uncomfortable.

Favorite Norm MacDonald joke or quote. Or I do that. Bill Cosby, when sometimes they get a party, I'll put that out. So you might've exhausted my repertoire, but, um, you know, I, everyone, I guess loves the moth joke. Um, nice. I love the joke. I could tell you. Oh yeah. Let's hear it. I'm just joking. I just want to see Thursday a bear joke I could tell you.

Yeah, let's hear it. I'm just joking. I just want to see Thursday get upset. A bear joke? I just told her I have a bear joke I could tell her. Why are you going to tell the bear joke again? Why do you love bear jokes? Oh, because you told it so many times. Can you just tell it now so we can have it over with? No, because no one wants to hear the bear joke.

I was wrong. I mean, I'm not wrong. I'm never wrong. I'm not sorry. I'm like, entertain that way. You brought it up. Everybody disagreed with me. They thought the bear joke was hilarious. Oh, you should tell it again. I want to see her reaction. We don't like we have 500 people watching now.

We'll be down to 200 by the time I'm done. They're like, damn it, the bear joke. Yeah. So this bear walks into a bar and he goes up to the bartender. He says, good night, man. I'll have a beer. He says, friggin how did you are not allowed in here? Okay. And I'm not going to give you a beer. He's like, Oh, is it, is it because you can't bear to be around me? No. Is it cause I'm unbearable? No, it's not a bear thing. Okay. It's cause you came in here last night, you got drunk out of your mind, you made some inappropriate words to the waitress.

You know, you smack Bill in the face, Bill's over in the corner, he kind of wags. It's like, you ran up a tab for $400. You're not welcome here, get the hell out. Bear says, fine. So he turns around to leave and the bartender just has a moment of kind of sympathy. He says, hey, listen, listen, how are you doing? He's like, how am I doing?

I'm fricking fine. Listen, I know what it's like to be sick and tired of being sick and tired. I used to come in here and you were happy, you know, you had that little bear girlfriend and she had a ring on her finger and you were happy, you know, and then you started coming around here, but she wasn't there anymore and you're on your own and I've just seen you get increasingly angry, you know, and the bear interrupts him. He's like, what the hell would you know about my life? And so the bartender pulls out a little coin in his pocket, you know, and it's like a seven-year sobriety coin. He's like,

I might know maybe more than you think. He says, I used to be married, I had a family, I destroyed all of that, burned the whole thing down, my wife won't speak to me, my kids are ashamed to be around me. I gotta live with those decisions. Right. And when I see you, I just I it's not irreversible. The bear has a moment of silence and bartenders says, listen, tell you what, how about I meet you tomorrow morning, nine a.m. at that coffee shop? And we'll chat about this.

I'm open to chatting about it if you're open to. He's like the one on Walnut and Conyers. Yeah, yeah, that one. But he says, go home, don't have a drink. And if you're still open to it, meet me at nine and we can talk. And the bear says, all right, fine, maybe I will. Maybe I. Won't. He's like, all right, good, but

what's with the long pause? He said, I'm a bear. I don't get it. You have to say I was born with them. Oh, I'll try it again. He says this. I was the best joke. Um, what's what was what's with the big pause? He's like, I don't know.

I was born with them. I screwed up the punch line. I had to tell the punch line for my least favorite joke. I got a great joke. I want a bonus. So did you have a good joke? That's like the moth joke. Yeah, I know, but not as good.

But if Norm told it would be as good. Right. I mean, I honestly, the Bill Cosby one is the one I tell the most. I don't have I don't really have a good joke. The thing I like the most about my sister and I always talk about this, because we were so similar, we're so different in so many ways, but we both realize that we both wish that we were comedians. And it's not that we're funny, it's just that we love that attribute in human person so much, although we're kind of funny.

Maybe this isn't a good representation of me though, being funny. But the thing that I love about comedians is not so much their standup, it's how they are in person. And I think that's why I like comedians and cars getting coffees, because it's fascinating to me,

someone who is so naturally disposed to see what is funny in life, do that off the cuff. I feel like that's the most endearing quality. And so standup, although I admire it so much and I can understand how incredibly difficult that is and how much there's a art form to it. It's not as endearing to me as just listening to someone be funny in a conversation. I have a lot of respect for comedians who don't feel the need to constantly try to be funny. Yeah.

So when you've got like people like Gaffigan on Joe Rogan's show and you don't get the sense that he's trying to make you laugh. You're like, okay, he must be quite secure in the fact that he's very funny and doesn't need to continually be funny. Yeah. What's funny about men and women is this, if a man's funny, it's very attractive to a woman,

even if he's ugly. But if a woman's funny and ugly, that's not appealing to a man. Well, maybe it's the ugliness that's in it. No, but if a man's- What if a woman's really beautiful ugly, that's not appealing to a man. Well, maybe it's the ugliness that's in the. No, but if a woman's really beautiful and funny. That's great. But it's unusual. You know, my wife, I always consider my wife very funny. She she's very beautiful.

Yeah. She wakes up in the morning and before she's fully awake, that's her best jokes. It's weird. It's like when she's not trying. Yeah. So the other day I got up, it's like two in the morning. I just threw my legs over the side of my bed and I went, oh, I don't know why I said it out loud. I don't announce when I'm going to the bathroom, but I'm like, I'll see you in the bathroom. And then I sat there for a bit.

She's like, do you want me to show you the way? It was brilliant. I just love her. She's really, really quite good. What did you say earlier that you found? Oh, even today, where you said you wanted to have whiskey. Yeah. And and she's like, wait, I'm not OK with you just drinking whiskey with some random woman, unless she's fat. Is she fat? I went, no, she's a lovely woman. Well, I don't know. I might beat her up.

She's just a good she's very funny. The other thing I think is, but I don't think that attractiveness is as important for women as it is for men. Right. I think that's right. That's why I mean, like a very funny man who might not be terribly attractive can be very attractive by being funny, funny or successful. Yeah. Yeah.

The other thing I think is interesting and push back. Don't not push back and then me get in trouble and then you say I never meant that. The other thing I find interesting is if a woman's crazy, sorry, if a woman's crazy

but attractive, I would imagine most men are like, I could, I can deal with that. Remember the crazy man real quick. But if a man is crazy and attractive, no one wants to be anywhere near that. Are you sure that Bundy got, got, I'd have to think about that more. Okay. You don't make a Ted Bundy joke. Yeah. He was the one. that more. Okay, don't make a Ted Bundy joke. He was the one that's different. He was attacking people. No, he he seduced all the women. I mean, crazy in an obvious way, like someone who's like psychopathic or something might not be immediately clear. But if it was kind of like crazy and attractive, I think a man I'm not saying me and I'm not saying it should be but I just think maybe they're more prone to overlooking the crazy But I do think that a virtuous prudent man is going to be a bit repelled by that a craziness

I agree with she's really 100% I'm talking about people partying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay I thought she just made crazy in general I was like Ted Bundy was definitely crazy and because he was attractive he had a lot of success unfortunately, but How that ended. Well now we've got a woman in the studio. What do you think men worry about when say dating or asking people on dates that they don't need to be worried about or what you know what emphasis do you see them putting on themselves or the other that you like you really shouldn't be doing this. I'll give one because I've been thinking about it and then you give another. I just think like women do not care that you're shredded. Oh, muscular in the way that you care about it.

Oh, yeah. I actually I guess 100 percent. I think Hollywood has lied to us about this. Yeah. And so men get super into it. But it's it's kind of like a beard. It exists for other men. I think that most women or maybe some generational. I'm older, obviously, than maybe the women who are dating now. But that was never something that was,

in fact, like if a man was too muscular, it was unattractive to me. What about like Brad Pitt Fight Club? Brad Pitt what? Brad Pitt Fight Club, like that physique. Like lean but muscular. Yeah, like hypothetically, if I knew somebody hypothetically, who wasn't me, who was trying-

But you're attracted to him not because, because he's Brad Pitt and he's gorgeous It's not cuz he's I mean, but Brad Pitt fight club. I'm I'm not I just I might have a Man is far less important than a woman 100% yeah Well, what's that movie that had that quote that women fall women become attracted to the men they're in love with and men fall In love with the women that are attracted to you? What movie was that?

I don't know but it's good I like that it's a good line. Have you seen the hot crazy matrix by the way? No what advice would you give to Thursday who's single and wants to marry Brett Cooper? No I thought the joke was dead. I thought the joke was dead. That's false. Text me photos of her. It's weird. She's getting weird. She's so pretty. All lies. Maybe out of his league too. I keep telling him that but he just doesn't listen.

Maybe out of his league? Definitely. You told me the opposite. So it can't be too much of a lie then if we're communing about her. So what, no, not about Breckhooper. That is a joke. But what advice do you have for like men like him who are like trying to find a good woman? What advice do I have? Gosh.

And boring advice is good. Yeah. Like what I just said, the thing about like no one cares about you being shredded, like calm down. I think men need to hear that a little bit. I feel like to the two things that most come to mind, and they seemingly might be contradictory. One is that a man. Is. Self contained in a way that it doesn't feel a need to be impressed or impressed people. I find that to be. A good quality in a man. It feels more manly to me.

But then I also mean, well, actually, maybe these are the same thing. I also appreciate confidence, but maybe it's the confidence that makes you less prone to try to impress people. I told Kyle this the other day on confidence. I've started doing something recently, ambiently, just in my everyday life that has made me more confident. Carrying pizzas and pizzas, carrying pizzas,

strapped to his chest strapped to the side of him Yeah, and it's made me more confident and as a result I Oh, I see what you're saying. I get it. I get it. I've said I like that just makes me more confident in general because I feel like More just like a sense of capability. Yeah, and it's made me less awkward around women I've noticed because you know, you can like harm them if you need to It's just like a general sense of confidence and capability I think that's probably why I like dressing well at an event makes you more confident and it's the confidence

That's more attractive not so much what you're wearing necessarily. Yeah might be both but being excellent at something I think is an attractive quality in a man. Right. Right. I'm asking men. I don't know. I'm trying to think about what. That's unfortunate for me because I'm not excellent in anything, but. I'm sure that's not true. Thanks. Say that more. My husband was very aloof, which I think drew me to him.

Ooh, define aloof. My husband was very aloof, which I think drew me to him. Ooh, define aloof. Um, like I remember being in the, we met in college and we were good friends. And then we started dating. Sorry, I'm rocking. Um, I would be at eating dinner with a group of friends and he'd walk by and he'd just be like, Hey, and walk off. And then I remember my guy friend turned to me. He's like, wait, that's your boyfriend? Why didn't he come over and talk to you? I was like, he's got turned to me, he's like, wait, that's your boyfriend? Why didn't he come over and talk to you?

I was like, he's got something to do, I guess. I think my, and I don't know if this is a temperament thing, maybe more than a woman thing, but I know my wife probably finds it attractive when I'm like not terribly interested. Not that's wrong, that's wrong. Well, to put it very bluntly, like neediness is gross. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So when you talk about aloofness or that kind of, maybe what you're finding attractive is that lack of neediness. Yeah. Like he's got something he's doing. Yeah. He doesn't need you for the adventure of it. He doesn't, you're not the adventure.

He's got an adventure and you're welcome to join him kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just, when women like feel like they need when women need constant attention it actually like it's unattractive I feel like because There's something about being a man. I find that I like Not that I like need to be able to like go neglect a perpetuate

You know neglect a woman but like I need to know that like if something comes up and I need to do it like she's not gonna be emotionally harmed and comes up and I need to do it, like she's not going to be emotionally harmed and like suspicies me for like being like, Oh, I got to go take care of this real quick. Or like, I can't, you know, talk to you 24 seven because I'm doing things that human beings do. Yeah. Neediness and performativity. We were talking about earlier. I think those two qualities are two unattractive qualities in both sexes. How would you advise Thursday to ask a woman out? What? Don't interrupt. Let her tell you. She might have some good advice.

So if you go to some random Sheila in a coffee shop or something. I think it's probably best to start with some level of friendship, right? You don't want it to be too, I just met you at an event and would you like to, I don't know if that's the way to go now. Um, because I feel like women, yeah,

I feel like establishing some degree of friendship first is it shows you're not a threat maybe. Yeah. Or that you're not, yeah, you're not a threat or I think women can become suspicious. Maybe like what's your, what's your, I don't know. You're writing this down? I don't know. I mean, it's recorded. I'll just go back and listen to it later.

Please, I need to write. I'll listen to it. I think being a good conversationalist is right. That's what women are going to find intriguing. And then it makes it more natural to go on a date. Because you're like, oh, we're already, I already experienced you as being someone who I like discoursing with.

I also feel like if you would cold, ask somebody out like without much interaction with them, they're likely to say no. And then once they've said no, unless you're willing to pursue her, it makes it a lot easier for her to say yes, if you're in the context of friendship. And the idea of pursuit, I feel like without some degree of knowledge of the person. I mean, if I think this is so long ago, but I remember feeling like that felt really artificial to me. You know, if someone pursued me who didn't really know me, it just felt like, well,

you don't w what, what is this based on? This feels false, you know, Kyle sent a super chat. That's hilarious. All right. I will read it. Kyle Whittington. Did you slack it to me or? No, do you want me to just read it? Yeah, go for it. So Kyle says, everyone says the bear joke sucks. Kyle gave $20 and said, everyone says the bear joke sucks, but I disagree with money.

So based on American politics, that makes me right and everyone else wrong. And then someone said, Brittany Miranda. Brittany Miranda says it's big pause, not long. Yes, people were upset. The good thing about the bear joke is that it's funny along the way. Is it? Yeah, I mean, I was laughing. I was eyes watering. What I like about what I like about the joke is that it starts funny.

The unbearable thing that's got a nice premise. Yeah. And so you're like, OK, this is promising. And then it gets interesting. Yeah. And then you like, especially if you can tell it well, which I did not. But it is. We should link to it below because John Henry told it much better than I did. Am I going to be?

I'm so impressed with you. No, so impressive. It's not a whiskey tasting if I only taste one. I I find when women smoke cigars, I find that really cool. Yeah. I don't mean attractive. I mean, cool. I think cigarettes, I find it gross. But when I find a woman smoking a cigar, I find that really cool. Yeah. I don't mean attractive. Can I say something? I mean cool. When they smoke cigarettes, I find it gross. But when I find a woman smoking a cigar, I find that really cool.

Right. Go on. Say something. When women like, like, uh, I was watching a Tucker on, uh, the let's go podcast, which I don't listen to a lot of that show unless they have somebody on that like is interesting. I know what it is. And they were talking about how it's attractive when women like differ smoke. Oh gross. And I was like, 100% I agree. Really? Yeah I don't know what it is. That's disgusting. I don't know what it is. The mouth will taste like an ashtray and Dr. Pepper. I don't know what it is but she whips that like the tin out.

I don't know Dr. Pepper. I mean when I first had dip I thought this tastes like Dr. Pepper and manure. But. This is a different one of those kasha-masha-nushers. Somebody wants you to tell an LSD dragon joke, and I have no idea what that is. So I got one in my back pocket. I got one here you go.

So this this fella walks down the stairs and he says to his grandma, Grandma, have you seen a bottle of pills that say just medicine says LSD? And she's like, forget the bottle, let's do something about this bloody dragon.

That's a great joke. So that person knew about this joke when they asked for that. I don't know, but that's my joke. That's no coincidence. It is my favorite joke. I have a lot of jokes, some are like really offensive. The ones I've told you I shouldn't tell on air,

probably, hey? If you have to ask, yeah, I'll tell you after. So this, uh, this, um, this lady, this widow, widows, the woman, right? Yeah. Widow is at the funeral, the husband's in the casket and she's standing next to the man's best friend. And she says to him, would you mind saying something? So he gets up and he gets the microphone and clears his throat. And he just says one word plethora. And then he sits down and the woman puts her hand on his shoulder and says, thank you. That means a lot.

I heard that joke a lot. Can I tell the joke that my priest told the homily once? That was a show. Yeah, I guess we should be safe. It's a bear joke. So this Protestant minister, this rabbi and this priest, this Catholic priest are arguing over who's the correct religion. Right. And they decide the way to figure this out is to try and go convert a bear.

Right. And so they they they go, OK, well, we'll come back in a month and we'll figure out who who who was the most successful and whoever's most successful must be right. So they go and they try to convert this bear.

OK. And I heard this. Look at her because I'm not interested. They come back, right? Sorry. Nobody can see, but there's a computer screen between me and the guest so I had to lean over. So they come back a month later

right and the Protestant minister he's got his arm in a sling and they're like oh Reverend what happened? He goes oh he's doing good he's really feeling the spirit then I try to dunk him in the river baptize him and he didn't like that smacked me I had to run away I broke my arm. him in the river, baptize him and he didn't like that. Smacked me. I had to run away. I broke my arm. No, that's, that's no good. That's no good.

Father fought. They look over priests in priests in a, in, you know, legs and got an arm that's wrist sprained and father, what happened to you? What went wrong? He goes, Oh, you know, uh, you know, he's, we were doing good. I was working catechism with him. He was really feeling, you know, I could tell he was getting getting, you know, the catechization was working well.

And then I tried to confirm him and some of the oil got in his eyes. He freaked out. He threw me. I broke my leg and sprained my wrist and I got away, though. I got away, though. It's not too bad. Not too bad. They look over at the rabbi and he's got a full body cast, basically. You know, everything's just he's just messed up And you go, Rabbi, what happened to you? And he goes, well, you know where we have to start. Are you able to turn all the microphones off, but just leave the cameras rolling? And I can

tell him my most offensive joke. Yeah. Is that something you can actually do? Yeah. And I'm going to cover my mouth so no one can look at it. All right. We're all... Everything's off. Are you a hundred percent sure? Yep. I really, really need you to be sure. Hold on. Chat. Everybody spam ones in the chat if you couldn't hear what Matt just said. That was a test.

They want to hear it. They're like, yeah, we can't hear you. Oh my gosh. Spam ones in the chat if you couldn't hear Matt. And they that was the time I want to hear they're like, yeah, we can't hear you Sam ones in the chat if you couldn't hear Matt and they can't hear you say that right? No, I just turned mine back on. Oh Man this is brutal you might hate it you might be very offended. I'm hard to find. Are you okay? It's not off sound on on sound is all bastard. You bastard. You're a saboteur. All right. Give me ones if you couldn't. Yeah. Once. Okay. Okay, chat, here's what's about to happen. I'm going to turn the mics off and Matt is going to wave at the camera. And when Matt waves at the camera and he's going to say

a test thing, and when he says the test thing while waving, we can't trust them. No, they're all screwing with us. Wait, lying is a sin. Haley just said, wait, lying is a sin. Yeah, they're all lying. Is it off? I have Haley. you We'll just keep drinking, telling jokes. My friend Chester. The Chester joke is hilarious and you cannot tell it. Nice history of jokes.

I can tell. I got nothing left. Do you have anything else you want to say? Yeah, I don't know. Talk about talk to Thursday. Interviews are very different these days, aren't they? On like Catholic platforms and they were 20 years ago. Yeah, for sure.

Well, what were they like 20 years ago? 20 years ago they were stagey, you know? Welcome back. Today we will be speaking to Jennifer. Right. And maybe they were right to be. They were always named Jennifer. Always.

That was all right. I hated that. All right, bye. Okay, I'm turning it off. All right, and then Okay, I'm turning it off. All right. And then I'll tell the other...