Pints With Aquinas - Carnivore Diet Got Me Off *ALL My Meds* w/ Cameron Fradd

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

Cameron and Matt talk about the carnivore diet. Cameron has been doing carnivore for a little while now and is feeling much better.

G'day everybody, Matt Fradd here. I have some very exciting news. I would like to invite you to spend three weeks with me in a 14th century monastery in Garming, Austria, where we will study philosophy and theology together, May 20th to June 7th. Space is limited, so there is a link in the description for you to click and to sign up for this. It's $3,850 which includes room and board, plus day trips to Vienna and Salzburg, plus an optional fourth week in Rome and Assisi. The class I'm teaching is called ABBA, the call to parenthood.

Now for college students, you'll receive three credits for this class, but you don't have to be interested in the credits to come. So again, click the link in the description below and I hope to see you in Austria, May 20th. And we are recording with Cameron, Fred, how are you love? Hi, good. Thanks for having me, honey.

This is good. When's the last time you were here? I don't remember on your show. It's been a long time, I think. Has it? Yeah. Why was that? I think I probably said something that embarrassed you and you're like, we're not welcome back. It's funny that you asked if I had water and I poured a half drunk bottle of

water under my desk for you. I don't get to do that with most guests. And I'm sure you're not flattered by it. I am. I'm totally flattered. Thank you. I appreciate it. I much rather that than no drink. And if anything, I feel so special, you know, that you would share your half-drunk water. So this is random, right? It's so weird to do this because we woke up to utter chaos in our house.

And it was still utter chaos when I left our house, yes. So I feel like we have to catch up. This can just be us catching up. So how are the kids? Have they packed their bags for Texas? Ah, we're like halfway packed, I feel like. No, probably two-thirds of the way, which is good because we got a couple hours. So we'll be fully packed. Well, one of the- The dog poo everywhere is what really threw the morning off. I'm so sorry. In multiple places. I smelt it. As soon as I woke up, I was like, I smell poo. And then you said one of the kids was gonna clean it.

Peter, did he? Yeah. I mean, he tried. This is the content they're here for. Let's keep going. To the best of a nine-year-old boy's ability. Wasn't that big? What are we talking about dog crap?

Wasn't that big in the dog room though? But the dog must have just come in and took lots of little... The one by your reclining chair? That one was very large. I sent you multiple photos. Did you like them? The dog poo photos? Yeah.

He's like, just in case he's having his coffee, just turn him off. I'm like, I wish you could smell how bad this smells. That's right. I mean, I'm offering it up. I love you, babe. One day there'll be a way to send smell through phone, smell through phone. All right, good.

Well, one of the reasons, the main reason I wanted you to come on the show is to talk about what's been going on lately with you and health stuff. You've been doing carnivore for about three months and we don't wanna count our chickens before they hatch. Kind of nervous about this, but you seem like you're doing so good. I'm doing a lot better. I feel like this is the time of year where I really fall apart.

So if we rewind to why I started doing carnivore, I want to do that. But before we do that, I want to say like you're off all of your meds right now. Correct. I want to do that. But before we do that, I want to say like you're off all of your meds right now. Correct. And you feel solid. Like, you know, like I would say two, three, four, five months ago. You know, I was really worried about you because you were losing muscle and we'll get to we'll get to all that. But just to say like you're doing really well right now. I feel more solid and strong. So, I had this experience at Mass. Did I tell you about this?

So, I was at Franciscan for Mass, and I had a baby in a carrier, and I'm bouncing her. And like, not that long ago, I'd be at Mass, and you'd like hold my shoulder down and be like, don't stand up, you can't do it. And I try to at least stand for the gospel. And I remember times, and I remember one time in, this happened all the time you can't do it. And I try to at least stand for the gospel. And I remember times, and I remember one time, this happened all the time, but one time in particular, I remember being in the chapel at Franciscan and standing there and holding on to the railing and like, Lord, just give me the grace

to stand just through the homily. That's all I want, like just stand through the homily. And trying, but then feeling woozy and lightheaded and dizzy and like I was gonna pass out. But just holding myself on there and looking at the crucifix, right? feeling woozy and lightheaded and dizzy and like I was going to pass out, but like just holding myself on there and looking at the crucifix, right? And just give me the strength just to stand just for a little bit longer, you know? I feel like that's been me for a while and I didn't kneel for, I feel like there was a two year period where I couldn't

kneel. I would make jokes about it because it's easier. So I'm like, I'm so cool. We have a kneeling rail at our church, which I know most of you are like, it's amazing. We love a kneeling rail when you can't kneel. It's so awkward. So I do this weird thing where because I've knelt and my knees will dislocate and I get stuck there. And it's pause on that for a moment because I don't think people I'm afraid they might think you're exaggerating. Your knees would dislocate.

Not two of them at once. I hope sometimes it would be both or it would be a hip and then I couldn't get back up and how come it's not Horrifically painful it is I know it is but you've told me that over time The 18th time you dislocate your hip it's not as crippling but still I think you get used to it I think so it's it's same with like when I used to wrestle and dislocate my shoulder Yeah, I I got to the point where I was like, okay, I know how to get it back So it's excruciatingly painful, but you know as soon as I get it back in the right spot And so I think that's what gives you the courage to put it back in

Right cuz it's like because the pain it is so intense and so much and you're like and you're very aware There's no question. Did I dislocate you're very aware? Oh, that's not in the right spot. And it's this pressure. And then I would get someone to hold my arm and I pull it to like pop it back in. And then as soon as it popped back in, you're like, ah, like you could breathe again. It still hurts, but you can breathe. There's a sigh of relief and same with, um, with my EDS when my knees or hips dislocate, it's the same intensity.

And I'm like, I just need to get it back in. But for a long time I could get it back in, but it wasn't, I didn't feel strong enough to stay there. So then when I'm walking it like pops out every time and it's like, and trying to like, okay, so sometimes I would walk and you'd see me, I put my hands on my hips as I walk to just, so if they start to come out a little bit, it'll just rotate out instead of popping out all the way if I hold my hands there. So I kind of walk more like a grandma or grandpa, no offense, grandma and grandpas. But yeah, hold my hips to make it a little a little easier.

So just more out of curiosity than anything. How does one put their knee back in after it dislocates? So knees are a little tricky where I find if I can try to bend it, sometimes it'll pop back in on its own. Otherwise you, you, you kind of make a fist, but it's like more open and then you just slam it. So you get it in a spot and you hit it really hard, like your knee cap, and then it'll go back in. All right. Good. Okay. So with that as a caveat,

maybe it would be helpful to just sort of sum up your health journey. Oh, but I just want to share about the, the, I didn't finish. Oh, sorry. I finished that bit about the church. Oh yes. Yeah, sorry. So I did like this weird thing where, so with the communion rail, I do a weird, where I like kind of lean forward and the priests and the deacon, the deacon in particular, his eyes, like he's just like, I love you, you poor thing, you know, as he gives me communion. But so I was at Mass at Franciscan recently and so standing through, so I've been able to stand sit kneel for a bit now, which has been really nice, but I had this, I had a baby who was upset, so I was trying to, you know, comfort her. And I had her strapped to me.

So I have a five-month-old strapped to me, and I'm strong enough to not only stand, but I don't feel like, I didn't feel like I was going to break, but I stood all amass with her on me. And I remember looking at the crucifix and just praying and just being like, Lord, what a gift. Like, I'm not, like, not only did I stand through the homily or through the gospel, I stood all a mass. And I was okay afterwards. I wasn't like, Oh, I'm exhausted. I need to go home and take a nap, which had been my experience.

Like that's part of why, like when I go to daily mass, it's like, okay, like I'm going, it's a sacrifice, but then I probably need to take a nap after cause I'm exhausted. Yeah, it's amazing. It's really beautiful. It's been really cool to see. But those little shocks help you realize just how bad things have been. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think even you getting back, like you being gone in Australia and having time away from me to come back and see it. Like, and so it's interesting to see it through other people.

Or like a friend last night was like, oh my goodness, Cameron, you're taller than me. Like I'm always taller than her, but when I don't feel good, I'm kind of slouched. And yeah, I kind of just curl up in a ball. It makes me feel a little better. But she's like, I forgot how much taller than me you were. And it was, it was true.

Like standing by her, I was like, wow, I am a lot taller than you. But normally we don't. Yeah. I think it just shows like my new normal or what became my new normal here. And please God, like either way, whether I am coming to the end of this physical suffering, or if I'm just having a little break of a hiatus, I'm so grateful for it. But it's, yeah, it makes me realize so many things that like I took for granted before, right? Like going to, walking around downtown with y'all, like that I feel healthy enough to do that. And

yeah, feeling like I can actually function somewhat, like I'm not worried about traveling today in my backpack. Can someone carry it for me? I can't pack it too heavy because otherwise, yeah, do I bring my handicap pass? Do I not? I think one of our lowest moments when I was, I was pushing you through the airport, do you mind me saying this? No, go for it. And, cause you couldn't walk, you know? And I think you were going bald a little bit. That's not funny. But I say, cause I could see your head

from where I was sitting, like honey, I think you're going bald. And you're like, oh well. But it was like your whole body has just been falling apart for the last three years. And then to see you. You know, attempt a womanly push up was pretty impressive. OK, I think that well, three years really bad in student bill, but I feel like my body's been falling apart since the ice.

Yeah. So like five years, it would be OK if we summed up your kind of journey. Sure. Kind of health journey. I know you've said it a lot and you don't need to go into super detail, but just sort of sum it up for people and then we'll get to the carnivore journey, like how you've done it, what it's been like. Sure. Yeah.

So I feel like, so it kind of, it goes back to childhood really, but like when I, the first time I got really, really sick, I was like 19 and I stopped holding food down. I was diagnosed with GERD, Barrett's esophagus, esophageitis. I was told that my esophagus looked like a 50-year-old man that was overweight and smoked all of his life. The GI specialist said that I would have esophageal cancer by the time I was 30. So, praise God, that didn't happen. But lots of sickness. And then I knew I've always had female health issues. So, I was diagnosed with stage four endometriosis when I was, before we met, so maybe 20, 19 or 20. I have PCOS, I have other female health issues. So I feel like I kind of always had that stuff. And when we got married, I joke that our honeymoon just ended quite abruptly because I was sick

and just, you know, you remember those days, holding me up and I'm just, you know, not so glamorous exploding both ways. To put it mildly. Welcome to marriage. Welcome to marriage. So I don't wanna be like, you know, then this one day I got sick. But so I had all of that in different times.

There was different flare ups and different things. But I think that the biggest one was, um, was it 2017 when I, when I went septic. So I, it was around then. Yeah, I think it was, I think it was 2017. It was shortly after Trump's election. Yeah. Just 2016, right? Yeah, okay.

Yeah, I think so. So I think it was 2017. I was pregnant, was miscarrying. And I think I miscarried at home for like 10 days. I tried, I really wanted to just let the baby pass naturally. I was 14, 15 weeks pregnant. Unfortunately ended up having to go to the ER, having a DNC. And I don't think it was anything, I don't think

it was anything that the doctor did or anything, but hindsight, I was so sick and so messed up that it was like lighting, like a match is kind of the way they put it that everything was inflamed and everything was so bad. I had scar tissue and like my uterus, my ovaries, my stomach, my colon, all of my insides were all like spider webs and like glued to my c-section scar and so a part of this was part of all my horrible, I already had GI issues before, but it just was really bad. And then I ended up just almost dying, getting really, really sick.

I had an infection. You were in the ICU, I believe, for a week and a half. I think so, yeah, 10 days, I think, ICU. And then you were in the hospital for a month. A month, yeah, a month in the hospital. And my body just was really bad. I think I see you in the hospital for a month. Yeah a month in the hospital and My body just was really bad. I don't know you probably remember more than I do because I wasn't with it It was a blur. I mean, I Don't know when when really bad things like that happen. I'm not in a place to process them in the moment

Do you know? Yeah. Oh, yeah, you're probably the same. So it's like when all that was happening, it was more just, I don't know, I tried to focus on the details of, okay, I've got the kids, and so I need to somehow keep everything afloat, and I don't know if I was speaking back then while you were in the hospital for a month, I probably canceled speaking engagements

or something, I don't know. Yeah. But yeah, it was a, yeah, it was a hard time. And God bless all the very good people who came and knocked on my door and said, hey, we heard what's going on. We're here to help. Who were those beautiful volleyball girls? Yeah.

Twins from Georgia. Yeah. They just showed up at my house. Yeah, they were focused. We met them through focus. The Heartland. Is it Heartland girls? I forget.

They just showed up at my door. I was a mess. Yeah met them through Focus. The Heartland. Is it Heartland girls? I forget. They just showed up at my door. I like a picture. Yes. Yeah. And just try and they said, can we come and help? And I said, yes, yes, we can. Yeah, that was that was wild.

So I don't even know if I allowed myself to realize how close to death you were then. Yeah. You know, I know that. I, like I remember very little of the ICU. But I remember getting in the normal ward of the hospital. And I do remember I felt like I was dying. I was dying. And that was really hard. And the day that they thought like my white blood cells were dying off, I wasn't with it.

A couple of priests got to me before you were able to get to me. And I remember wanting to hold their hand, but I couldn't, I was just too weak. My body couldn't do anything. And I remember Father Kevin just holding my hand and just praying with me. And I remember trying to go to confession, but like nothing made sense.

Like I think I was mumbling random stuff, but he gave me my last rites. And at one point I really thought I... And I was begging the Lord, I was praying and like, please don't let me die. Please like they need me. Like you can have me, you can have my life, but let me just finish with my people. Let me finish helping our children and raising them and then God I'll come, right? But like really fighting that and not wanting to die. And then at one point they were singing and I thought I was like—

The priests. The priests were singing and I thought I was like entering into heaven. I'm like, why are all the voices male? I was like, God's not sexist. What's going on? Yeah. And that's when I realized, oh, I'm not dying. It's just the priests.

And then when I got moved to the regular ward, like I survived the ICU, they still couldn't like tell us exactly what it was. It was some type of infection. We don't know. I never ran a fever. Maybe that's why I never kind of allowed myself to realize how serious it was because nobody ever sat me down and said, this is more serious than you think. Well, when they said her white blood cells are dying off, she needs a blood transfusion.

She's in the ICU. Like, like as soon as they moved me there, we knew it was, well, at least I was aware it was really bad. No, I knew it was serious, but I think if you had have died then and they had have approached me, I would have been in complete disbelief. Okay. You know, looking back, who the heck knows how I would have responded at the time. Okay.

But all right, so you got out of the ICU and out of the hospital and then you couldn't walk, right? Yeah, straight out of the ICU, I couldn't walk. And so that was my favorite doctor that was like, so I have a theory, like, could you walk before you came in? I'm like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, okay.

Is this what we're gonna do? Yeah, okay. So yeah, oh, I forgot. I forgot to mention I couldn't walk before coming. I'm like, oh, yeah. OK, is this what we're going to do? Yeah. OK. So, yeah. Oh, I forgot. I forgot to mention I couldn't walk before. I'm like, no, I was a normal person. Look at me. Do I look like someone that hasn't been walking for a long time? Yeah. So I had like. One of my favorite things was I was going to Rome to do some study

Italy and you flew over and you had a walker. I did. God bless you. I came with my walker and all cuz aren't super easy on cobblestone I was super excited to have a walker cuz I had a I had a I was excited to have a cane at a cane I didn't bring the walker about the cane I had a walker prior to that and I still it's ingrained in my mind when I was first learning how to use the walker There's this old man. He was probably like 90 years old and he's passing me up. And I'm like trying to learn how, believe it or not people, it's hard to walk with a walker when nothing in your body is working. So I'm like trying to like, I go a little bit and I'm like, all right, left foot, left foot and like trying to make it move and it

wouldn't move. So sometimes I'd have to like take my hands and make the foot move and then take another step. So this guy passes me up and I look at him and I'm like, oh, and at this point I'm what? Mid thirties and see this old guy and he's like, don't worry, sweetie, you'll get the hang of it. My low point. That was a low point. Yes. Yeah, so I was excited when I graduated from the Walker to the cane, and I was crazy enough to still go with you. I think it was I also was so aware at home that I couldn't do anything anyhow. Like it was really humbling that I used, I had to have friends come and babysit me and my children. We had a mattress room, we put the mattress on the floor in the dining room because I

couldn't make it up and down the stairs. And all my, half my hair fell out because when you're in the ICU, your body's like focused on surviving. That hair is the least of its worries. So over half of it fell out and and then it came back white, which was fun and different. But yeah, yeah, it was it was crazy and it was hard. And I feel like I was crazy sick for a whole year. And then I had like ups and downs of being sick.

And then when we moved here, just, it was just all sick again. Collapsed. Was it two or three times you were hospitalized for the first few months? Yeah. Yeah. First two months here, three different hospitals. And there were different reasons to that. I got hospitalized, right? It wasn't like, Oh, it's just GI stuff. Like one time was GI. Another was like heart stuff. Um Hindsight, it was more of my like pot stuff that we just didn't know I had. My blood pressure kept bottoming out. And yeah, I think before, you know, marrying you and being with somebody who got really sick because I've never been really sick, thank God.

I just figured that doctors knew what sickness was and how to treat it. You know, I had this real simplistic view of like, oh, you're sick. What is it? What do we do? And didn't realize how many doctors just were clueless. Yeah. And how often that's probably a lot of people's experience. Or then they'll give it an umbrella name like fibromyalgia, which kind of just covers things maybe we don't understand. Oh yeah, very much so. Yeah. Yeah. So if I, if they didn't figure out EDS, I'd be fibromyalgia. Yeah. EDS is just like, Oh, you're also hypermobile

and things dislocate, but everything. Even when I was like trying to figure out what to do to make it better, like look up fibromyalgia. I'm like, this is not a good diagnosis. Like this is like, we're not really sure, but we're gonna put you under this. Yeah, any chronic stuff is, it's like, okay, yes, you have chronic migraines, you have chronic pain everywhere.

Like you can have specifically female chronic pain or you can have joint chronic pain or you can have nerve chronic pain or just everywhere chronic pain. And it is, it's like, we don't know what'll help you. And so like even for a long time, like pain meds wouldn't help, right? So that's why I had to get on that gap of Penton.

Cause it like, I would be given morphine and I'm like, that's not touching my pain. Yeah. Give me something for the pain. Yeah. Yeah. And then you've tried all sorts of things up until now. Yeah. Like what? I mean, how many herbal supplements do we have at our house? We could we could fill we could probably fill an average automobile with your pills.

That's fair. I also, so with my mast cell activation syndrome stuff, so I overreact to certain things. So there are certain medicines or supplements where my body just rejects it and I like it covered head to toe in hives, right? And I like become, and even now since that I had an episode two months ago, three months ago, I can still feel under my skin. It's there. So if I were to start to scratch, I'd have the red blotchy like flare up. So yeah. And so it's like, okay, I still need my corset in and Benadryl for if that roots its ugly head, because it goes from just being a little itchy to like hives, like nobody's business,

and you need to put me out of my misery very quickly. So I'm not saying that carnivore has completely healed everything, but it's been interesting the last three months that it has, and something happened different this time, where I did carnivore during Lent, and- I just want to say before you get to that, that neither of us are medical experts and we are not offering medical advice. Doesn't really make sense to me why it's working.

Maybe you've watched enough videos that you have a clue as to why it may be working. Yeah. And I also realize that it's not something so even my doctor talking with her about it all, she's been really good about, she's like, okay, I wouldn't say that this is good for everyone, but for you for right now, I see that this is good. I'll support you in this. She supported me in it last time, but she was watching my levels and because it is weird. I already had a limited of- Thursday wants me to say we're also not recommending this to people.

It's just so like, you know, like people speak to medical professionals, do your own research, make your own choice, because it does sound rather radical. Yeah, I had already had a very limited diet. So for a long time, I have not had any grains. I haven't had any sugar. I can't have any bad oils. Like so eating at restaurants, like I can't do that most of the time, because if they use like a vegetable oil or corn oil, like I can't do that most of the time because if they use like a vegetable oil or a corn oil, like I react very badly.

So I was already kind of like an extreme case. And I feel like people are like, oh, well, I did paleo or I did carnivore or keto and you get rid of all the processed junk and they do much better. But I haven't had processed junk in my diet. Yeah. Used to eat like you eat your diet was really disgusting when we met. That's fair. Yeah.

Mine was too. I was probably like I was the same as you. But you were you would drink like three or four sodas and you had. Yeah. It's crazy. Isn't it? Yeah. You used to like beer.

I know. But now if you had beer you would not get out of bed. I don't think. Yeah. All right. Instantly vomit. You have a typical American diet. Mine is the fast food because I'd be sick. Like if I ate at McDonald's I don't think. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Instantly vomit. Yeah, but the typical American diet, though, is what you would... Mine is the fast food, because I'd be sick.

Like, if I ate at McDonald's, I would have vomited, right, back then. So it was just like trying to appease my GI issues. But yeah, I probably ate like your average American who's not like obese, but you think that's still not great. But I did eat a lot of vegetables. Yeah. So how did you first hear of carnivore? And when did you first try it? Um, I think it was Michaela Peterson. I think it was you that told me. That's right. I think that's right. I think I listened to her. Now that

you bring that up, I think I listened to a video or two and I said, just listen to this. Yeah. Yeah. So it was when we were in Guatemala earlier this year, you had decided to start maybe doing it. Yeah. It was, wasn't that last February? Almost a year ago, January, February. What was this? It was this year, it was 2023, wasn't it? Yeah, at the very beginning. Yeah. Yeah. So almost a year ago. Yes. And I was like, okay, I'm going to try it. I'm going to do this for, um, I think I was doing it for Lent. So that's what it was. It was Lent. We're not going to give up meat. We are only going to eat meat. No, I started it prior. No, I did start it prior. And then I said,

I'll keep it going through Lent. So I did start it prior. And I noticed on every, because at the time I was fasting for meats on Wednesday and Friday, and I noticed I didn't feel as good on those days. How many eggs would you eat? A dozen. A dozen. At least. At least. On Wednesdays and Fridays, I would eat at least a dozen eggs. Sometimes a dozen and a half. Yeah. Because that's what I could get, right?

Yeah. Yeah, so it was a lot of eggs. And I kept avocado in my diet because I knew I needed fat. So as soon as I started carnivore, I lost weight, which a lot of people love about carnivore. That wasn't great for me. I'm already pretty small. I feel good now. This is the most I've weighed in probably like,

probably like five years. I'm so happy for you. Yeah, yeah. We'll get to that, but I want to talk about this initial experience. So it didn't seem to work very well. I feel like- Well, I think what you said to me is

it's having some benefits, but the, whatever the benefits I'm getting are not nearly worth the cost of not having a glass of wine or something. Yeah. Yeah. And even that I don't drink all wine. It's just this one particular sulfate free organic, you know? Um, yeah. And so I felt like I did it. I was like, okay, I did it. I could see where people feel better. My joint pain wasn't as bad, but I still had it. It didn't go away. Yeah. And I still got crazy sick when we got back here. So when I was in Guatemala, I felt much better. I was hiking, climbing volcanoes and things.

And then we couldn't tell, is that cause we're out of Steubenville or is that cause of the meat? Probably cause we're out of Steubenville or is that because of the meat? Probably because we're out of Steubenville. And then I would say for the last three months, you've been very sick because you were off this carnivore again, obviously since Easter. And I kept sending you to Florida because I couldn't bear to see you like that. And it wasn't like, I know you would say to me, yeah, but the kids need me. I'm like, I know you think that.

And of course they need you, but like you can't move. So they don't, I can do this. And what's hard is it was always different things. It wasn't just that I was dislocating, right? So the dislocating would hurt, would hurt and that would be hard. And I learned to deal with it. And then it was like, I got to the point where I felt like I was drunk all the time and dizzy and like, I couldn't walk walk straight. Like, I remember being at like a party and like grabbing onto a friend. I'm like, hey, I'm so sorry. Like, no, it's okay.

We all get like that. I'm like, I'm not, I'm literally, I'm just drinking water. Like, but like I kind of gave off, but I was drunk or buzzed vibe all the time. And yeah, and so much so that like, there was times that like, I couldn't leave the bathroom

because everything was spinning and I was just sick. And you would say you would, you felt like you were on a boat that was rocking and you couldn't get off. And I couldn't get it. Yeah, I couldn't get off. I couldn't get it to settle down at all. And yeah, I keep going. I have this great doctor friend in Orlando and he fixed me every time.

And I remember this one time going and be like, I don't know if he can fix me, but this is what's going on. I know it's not normal. It's none of the normal stuff. Like one time it was like my adrenals. Another time it was my spleen. Another time it was like a pinched nerve.

Like there was all different reasons, but he like just was able to look at it and try to fix it. Yeah, so, but he would get me functioning and I feel great down there. And one time we went down for a longer time, multiple times we did. And I felt great. But then within two days, remember the day you came back from Florida, you woke up and you had puffy eyes. Yeah, like what is wrong with Stephen? Yeah, I woke up and it was puffy, puffy eyes. I could barely open them in my whole head. I was like, Oh, I feel like, yeah.

You know, like one of the one of the frustrating things for me has been people suggesting things. And I know I shouldn't be frustrated because people are beautiful and they want to help and they've had things help in their life and they just want to share that. Maybe that's what we're doing now. Yeah. But people have you had the house tested for mold? Have you had the like the is it lead in the pain? Like we've done all of that. And we did have the house just treated recently again for mold for like a different level of mold, which is like, but that didn't work. Well, I, well, it's hard to say if it didn't work, but you got home and felt very sick again. So I think, I think the problem

is my body's already like inflamed and allergic to everything. So any little tiny thing like would set me off. So maybe it did help. Even I ate something at a friend's house who like, I was so sick and I was like, why was I sick? And then afterwards realized there was a little bit of MSG and a seasoning that was used to cook this massive thing of meat a tiny bit. I was sick for like three days. Yeah. And it's like, I just can't handle any little thing.

And so it's like, yes, I had like, let, I had Lyme disease and mold toxins. And so I've done all these detox things where someone's like, try this. But like with detox, I have to be careful because I can't do like the normal stuff because of my GI issues. And, and so I've, I've done so many things, right? And all the alternative. Yeah. Yeah. And intermittent fasting.

Yeah. And I think everything like would help to a certain point. And then it was like, oh, and then it's like, I don't know. It's the same with like when I got really sick over the summer and it's like, this is the time of year I'm supposed to be healthy. Why am I so sick? Like, and it's disheartening and it's like, this is the time of year I'm supposed to be healthy. Why am I so sick? Like, and it's disheartening. And it's like, all right, Lord, give me the grace

to just deal with this now and persevere and just praying through all of it. But, but yeah, it's and I have felt relief, but I feel like when the, when the pain comes back, so when I go to Florida and I feel great, and then I come home and it comes back, it's almost like it's debilitating. It's so much harder because you get hit with it so fast and you're like, oh my goodness, okay, this is how I've been dealing for so long. And then it's like, you've got to get your head over it. Like, you've got to get your mind ahead of the pain so you can like have the proper, like accepting it and offering it up so you can not let it eat you alive.

So when did you hear about carnivore this time around? So three months ago or so. And when did you and why did you choose to go all in and how has it been different? So we met a friend. I met someone. Actually, she influenced me last time too, who was doing carnivore and felt really good on it. And then this time it was pure desperation because you said you need to go back to Florida. I'm like, I don't wanna go anywhere. I wanna be here. I want our kids to be here.

I don't want to pick them up and separate our family because we have some that need to stay here because of school and others that could come with us. And it's hard because there's gymnastics. I don't wanna let anyone down. I don't want to let anyone down. I don't. And I'm like, okay, I'm willing to do anything. I'll try carnivore again.

I'm like, I'll just try it. Just because I had nothing left to try because I had already done all the supplements and I felt like I was balancing everything kind of perfectly. And I was like, there is a certain fungi that grows in this area because this area is always wet. And I do think certain people are allergic to it. There's a college student who got like, he can't walk, he'll get crippled,

and then I'll fly home for a week. He's great. I got to say that made me feel good when I heard that not because of him, because I thought, are we insane? What's wrong with us? Is this mental? Is that every time we come back here, we'll see, we'll see about the future. That's another episode, I guess. But for now we have no plans on moving but right but I desperately was out of desperation I'm like, I'm gonna try a carnivore again. Yeah, cuz I felt like I tried everything else. I was willing to move right we were like yes, let's let's of course let's move. Let's do whatever it takes Yeah for the five commenters there that are gonna say that I'm forcing you to be in student. No

No, we have so many great friends here and we love it here. Our kids are so happy here. Yeah, it'll be interesting to be away for a while and see how my body does. But I have, like you could tell in my voice, I'm fighting something, right? So it's not like, oh, I'm healthy and everything's wonderful, but like I could do this and it doesn't hurt.

It's amazing. Like that's huge, right? It's a little thing. I don't know if you guys realize that doing this is like amazing. Where before I'd be very, even someone would bump into me and I'm like, oh, like, you know, and it's like, someone just bumped into you, but it's excruciatingly painful and everything hurts everywhere. So it has been nice to, I feel like it's made the sensitivity, it's brought it down a lot.

So what has, what have you done differently this time round than last time around if this time is helping? I think way more beef, way more beef and more fat. So tell me what your average day. I mean, I know what it is because I'm with you. But for those at home, what is your average diet? A stick to a stick and a half of butter a day. I know It's ridiculous

Probably at least a rib eye if not to a day Ground beef maybe eggs and if I do do eggs, I only cook them six at a time Why do you why do you say that because I've like made a egg before and I'm like, this is ridiculous Why would I do this is a garnish? But what I've done is like so I'll do like ground beef with like I use like bacon fat or beef Fat to cook the eggs in and I'll do eggs and ground beef and then I'll like so it's scrambled But then I'll do like a fried egg on top to have like variety and then sometimes I'll like cut up other meat and put it On top so it's like now what was interesting though is when you started this, I thought you were

losing weight. I think I was. That scared me. Yeah, I was losing weight and I talked to my doctor about it and I felt like I lost. I felt like I lost more weight than I did because when I went to my doctor, she's like, you're only down five pounds. It's not great, but I'm not concerned. Five pounds is fine. Let's just make sure you don't go down anymore. Okay. And since then, I've gained 10 pounds. So I not only put those five back on, I put another five on. Like as somebody who lays next to you in Bennett night, like putting my hand on your thigh. One sentence no one else will ever say. And I will not say to another guest, putting my hand on your thigh and be like, honey,

you feel this is amazing. So well, then that's interesting, right? Because a lot of people do carnivore to lose weight. That seems to be the kind of one of the consequences. But they're bigger and they need to lose weight. I'm not bigger. I don't need to lose. I know that. But what I'm asking is, how is it you're putting on weight? Do you think then muscle weighs more than fat?

I think I'm actually. I see. And I don't know. You're gaining muscle somehow. I'm definitely gaining muscle. And as weird as it sounds, I feel like I'm gaining cartilage. I feel like my joints are stronger. I know, I see that in you as well,

but it's not like you're working out, right? No. Or maybe you're doing it when I'm at work. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I can. So there has been a few times where I've like, a few times that I've done stretches or I've done push-ups or sit-ups. Which is just unthinkable. I was on this dock in Florida, like this little, and it was this beautiful, peaceful area. And I

had praise and worship music going and I was just thanking the Lord that I felt better. And this is before I was doing carnivore, but I just felt like I was in a better place So it's probably a combination of a bunch of stuff just kind of coming into And even before I started carnivore, dr. Care was saying he's like I feel like you're doing better like this is because normally he would see me I used to wait to go to him till my body fell apart and then he put back together the pieces this recent trip Yeah, no, no, you were halfway through carnivore while you were there. Absolutely. Oh, I was. You're right. I'm telling you it's carnivore. As an outsider who is

not infallible, I was going to make the declaration that it's been nothing but carnivore. Okay. Like as like we've tried eight billion little treatments over the last three years and I think some of them may have been a placebo effect and I'm all about placebo effects if that's what they are and they help good great let's go with it but when you started doing carnivore I would say like a month in things started changing. So I'm taking colostrum every day too. Do you know what colostrum is? Is it cow breast milk? The stuff for the baby? Yeah good job. So when you first when you're first feeding a baby, the first milk that comes in is the colostrum and doctors and like, we'll refer to it as liquid gold because it's almost

like a golden color. I'm not taking anyone's breast milk. I have cow colostrum. Not against it, not opposed to it in principle. Right. Maybe I drink it. Who knows? But I've been taking that and I also have been doing, and so that has a lot of good healing things. And so everything that I'm doing is meat based. I've taken cod liver oil on and off during this time. I've taken some other supplements that are like beef, I forget what you call it, but it's like living bone stuff. I've done a lot of bone broth, a lot of fat, like I'll just take fat and chop it up and put it in the air fryer. And I'm like, Oh, this is delicious. It like melts

in my mouth. And I think my body craves fat more. Where I don't think I, even when I did carnivore last time, I don't think my body ever processed fat well. And I don't know why something switched now that it didn't last time. Maybe because I let the eggs be the bulk of my diet last time. Maybe. And this time beef is the bulk of my diet. That's what I think I've seen in you is that you can't be doing fish, salmon. I can.

What I mean is you can't be doing that alone. Yeah. Like when you would eat salmon and eggs and cheese, you weren't doing this well. It's really, from an outsider ever since you've just been pounding beef. Yeah. That you've done better. Yeah, pretty much. Now, I know everyone's different. Like there's a whole community of people online who have this diet and they'll say,

you know, everyone's different and people have different responses. But what about milk and cheese? Because you tried that this time around. I did. And and raw milk and raw cheese. So I was very particular about it. And I could feel it in my joints at night. Yeah. So it tasted so good. I loved having a little bit of a country, right?

To get the best. And I was like, this is the best. I love it. And I loved it. But I think that's when I got really sick. And then it wasn't because of that. I was I was sick because we got RSV and all these other things that we lovingly got from a friend and I'm fine. Nursing her back to health was worth us all getting sick.

But yeah, but I think it's the cutting that out. And I need to make sure the bulk of everything is beef in particular. I know- Bison is also good. I've never had bison. I don't know how to find bison. Okay. If you find me bison, I'll eat it. Lamb too. And I haven't been doing lamb, but um, unless you're in Australia, that's more expensive than beef. Isn't it? Costco has a decent lamb roast. Um, but no, it is, you're right. It is more expensive than beef roast.

So I'll do it for like, yeah. And then like I got a meat slicer. So slicing up meat and I didn't dehydrate any of this I'm going to Texas so I feel like I'm okay where normally when I travel I do like a couple of giant roasts and I slice them real thin and I Dehydrate it and I go with two big ziploc bags of meat that I can just eat on the plane But you can't go to a barbecue restaurant and just get ribs with sauce. I can ask for no sauce. Yeah, I just want people to know just how strict you're being. Yes. When you're saying you're only eating, what is it, meat and salt?

And coffee on occasion. I'm not doing it daily. But I hear that you think that maybe if you give up coffee, you'll find. I've heard that. So I'd love to know. Those of you give up coffee, you'll finish it. I've heard that. So I'd love to know. Those of you that do do carnivore, I would love to know. And tea, I've kept in tea and coffee because for multiple reasons, I'm not having them. I'm having at least one daily.

That's not true. Yeah. So coffee, I'm probably averaging one to two to three a week. That's it. I have GI issues. That does make me, that's the only thing that I'm like, week, that's it. I have GI issues that does make me, that's the only thing that I'm like, there's like a nice empty feeling with carnivore where I feel like it's not like my stomach's empty,

but I just don't feel as like- Bloated? Bloated, yeah. You know, after you eat something that's really not good for you, and you're like, oh, I'm bloated and I have heartburn. So I almost have that opposite feeling where there's like a lightness, which is nice, but I know some carnivore people are very regular I'm not one of them. So I'm still trying to figure that out

So I have some teas that help like smooth move tea or whatever We should point out too that your husband has heroically been doing a modified carnivore in support of you for what is it four days in my fourth day, babe? And so just so people know what my carnival looks like it's carnivore plus Whiskey at night And dark chocolate. Oh, yeah and paleo chocolate Which is so bad That I don't want and I know there's coconut sugar in that that's sweet I know no, but I don't but it's it's there's coconut sugar in that. That's so sweet.

I know. No, but I don't. But it's it's still food as opposed to candy. Right. And you know, with candy, you can keep eating and not be satisfied. But you can't do that with even good chocolate. Like you eat like three bits. So I mean, at least only three squares. But OK, no, I know those eight two bars. I could eat a whole one for sure.

But OK, so this is funny So tell us about so we'll see how long I can keep this up me and Matt McCloskey at the store at the cigar lounge Are we've got a deal where we're basically doing this to New Year's Day and then we'll see maybe I'll take out the chocolate I'll keep going or maybe I'll just fall into a pile of burgers But Talk about your blueberry experience that you had recently. Is it a blueberry? You had a bite out of a blueberry? Did you? We had people over. Oh, for Aladea Guadalupe. Oh, no. Yeah. It was a blackberry. Okay. What happened? Apparently this is worth talking

about and documenting. Well, but just the fact that I thought it tastes is so good and there were so many flavors and it was so sweet. And did you, how many did you have? Like one? Two. Two. You pig.

No, I had one blackberry. No, actually there was three. I had one blackberry, one raspberry and one blueberry. It was a feast day. Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. I exploded. I went out. And you said you held them and bit them.

They were like six bites out of this tiny little blueberry and say with the blackberry and I'm like, oh, that's so good. I'm like, this is amazing. It was the same with that keto cup I had on Thanksgiving was so good. What is a keto cup for those? A keto cup is like a keto person's imitation Reese's peanut butter cup. It has almond butter. It has coconut fat,

it has cacao, and I don't know what else, but it's keto friendly. So it's pretend chocolate basically, but man, it was so good. It's this big, and I took probably 20 bites out of it, and every bite I was like, mm, that's so amazing and delicious. It tastes so different to beef.

Yeah. Yeah, it turns out. And what's been funny to me is just how much like how creative we can be when we want to taste something different. So tell me about what people in butter. Well, that and what people in the carnival community like this there's a thing is called carnival bread. Yeah, what is that? So there's different types summer meat base so you could do meat and eggs and you basically but you like do the egg separate So if you keep the yoke separate from the whites and you beat it just right and you pour it in just right and it almost

Looks like a bread, but it's like it's like a bread meets a meatloaf And then there's other ones that it's just egg whites. And yeah, you can have them, it changes the texture. I've also been known to do like a beef patty and then like an egg on top to just kind of have variety or a steak, like I'll do steak with salt, but then I'll air fry certain bits or I'll take bacon and then crunch it up on top.

So it's totally different. And then put butter on top too. So you're tasting different textures. But it totally, and I get when people are like, me feeling like this is worth all the sacrifice. I don't think so. I disagree. I disagree.

I think me choosing to do this, I still miss the other foods. I know some people say they don't and maybe after six months I won't, but after three months I do. And I've had two big cheats. I had those three berries that one time and then I had a keto cup one time. And I think over Christmas I may do a cheat or two like that as well where I'm still very much fine The three most beautiful and perfect blueberries and put them on your plate and go It's funny is I find that usually out of a sort of misplaced compassion I'm willing to tell you like just don't worry about it. I have a glass of wine like you'll probably be okay

But this time around like please don't worry about it. Like, have a glass of wine. Like, you'll probably be OK. But this time around, like, please don't stop doing this. Yeah. I mean, if you do, then you're going to need to open things up slowly so that you can detect whether that or not is triggering you. Yeah. But it's been really wonderful to have you back. I mean, I've always had you.

But to have you look this way. I feel like I'm coming back. I feel like I'm I feel like it's the the bones like, you know, the bones are growing new flesh. That's what I feel like. You know, the dry bones rising up. And it's it's it's correlated with my prayer as well. And like Jesus saying, do you want to be healed? Like pick up your mat, follow me and saying. And what I found very interesting is as I've been letting go of the physical pain and suffering the Lord has been so loving and kind in His goodness of me that my cross has just switched from the physical to the

emotional and spiritual. What do you mean? I feel like we've had different things going on. So Meredith is one thing. So my sister, I would love prayers. My sister has brain cancer and just everything going on with her. Like it's just hard, right? And then with our sweet girl that we've been loving on. So I've been helping nurse a baby back to health

for the past couple of months. And everything with that, I feel like my heart has been ripped out, put back in, ripped out, put back in. Like there's a, I feel like, and I've heard this when you, like we're all called to be mothers. And I have been a physical mother for many children and I love them and they're amazing and my body I was saying this is my body given up for you all the time for them for love of them and that's what birth them and I feel like I'm doing that with my heart

now and it's it's really hard. So yeah for those who well I don't know how I don't want to share too much, but there's a family who we're helping take care of their baby because they couldn't. Um, and we've fallen in love with her and, uh, it breaks your heart to give her back though. You know, that that's probably given what we know best. Yeah. You know, we have an option, but you know what I mean? Yeah. I feel like there's been like a, um, like my heart has been taking on all the suffering instead of my body. And I do think that part of my issue was there was a disconnect.

I told you like when I read the body keeps the score, right? Like my body- That was a game changer. Yeah. And so realizing and trying to listen, it's like, okay, my body's yelling and screaming at me. How can I listen better? So I have been going on this healing, you have like spiritual journey and emotional journey and going to therapy. Absolutely. And I would wager that if you had only done the carnivore, say, two years ago, there was so much that had to be worked on emotionally and spiritually.

be worked on emotionally and spiritually. So maybe that's the difference. This go round to from the last one that I have made those strides in. Like beautiful to see trying to feel all the things. And, um, and so I do think it's weird, isn't it? When you are married to somebody and then they change and they start to heal and you got to learn to love a healed person. Yeah, it's different. Isn't it beautiful? It's wild.

You and I said the other day that we feel like we're in Rivendell. There's still, we know that there's a long way to go, but we feel like the Lord's brought a lot of healing into our life. Yeah, our wounds aren't quite rubbing up against each other the way that they were. Yeah. Because my wounds are getting healed and so are yours. Yeah. And then we have to learn to love each other because it's easy to go to that. So like the other day when I snapped at you, like that was me.

That was out of a place of wound, a woundedness that I snapped at you and assumed the worse and and then stepping back and you're like, OK, like that was ridiculous. You know what shows a tremendous amount of growth? You actually apologized that day. That is not typical for Cameron Brad. Within a couple of hours, really. So that is not difficult of Cameron Brad. No, it's beautiful to see. No, we are both finding healing and it's worth it.

It's worth it. It's hard as hell, but it's worth it. Yeah. Yeah. And so just still taking the cross until still offering up things, but they're becoming different things. Yeah, I see. Where this is almost more, like I need to be more mindful of it, where the pain, like,

like one thing about physical pain and suffering with physical pain, like you either let it eat you up and you die, or you offer it up. I don't know how anyone lives with physical pain and doesn't know the Lord. Like, I don't. I couldn't do it. I'm not strong enough. Like, constantly having to rely on His strength and choosing like, okay, Lord, let this unite me to Your cross. I offer this up. You help me. And as Catholics, we believe in redemptive suffering, right? Like, the Lord can

use this. Like, what I'm going through, the pain that I'm going through can bless this person over here. It could bless that person over there, right? Like it, like we're able to offer things up and it's really beautiful. Yeah. Um, maybe this is why you aren't cynical and bitter and, because in one sense, how could you blame a person who's been in that much pain for that long that they are bitter and cynical, you're not that way at all.

Yeah, it's hard. Praise the Lord. What what advice would you have? Not that we're suggesting that people do this, but if someone's about to do this, what kind of what advice would you have? Everything from kind of meal planning to what not to keep in the fridge or. Yeah, so I we still have everything because of y'all. Um, but I think if you're a single person or if you're just a married couple doing it

together, get rid of everything except for what you can have. Um, and, and I, and so some people like carnivore could be really easy. You can have butter, you can have, well, and I'm having butter, but you can have whipped cream. So you can still have like whipped toppings. You can have coffee. You can have cheese. And so there's so much more variety. If you can have dairy, it's when you have to shut out the dairy. So I would challenge you to, yeah, get rid of stuff you can't have. And then you can have animal products, anything from an animal, but not by from, you don't mean what they create because you can't have honey. You know what I mean? Correct. But that's not from the, yeah, that's not from the animal. But not by from. You don't mean what they create because you can't have honey.

You know what I mean? Correct. But that's not from that. Yeah, that's not from the animal. That's the distinction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's some people that say you can. But I don't. Please don't. I'm not. I'm not. And even if you're about to have honey, let's just like

schedule two weeks ahead and I'll be at home. So when the aftermath happens, we can, we can cope with it. Someone said, like, if you're hungry, have like a boiled egg or have like a burger patty. So for me, steak is my go-to. I know steak's expensive, but that that's when I feel the best after having a steak and it has to be a fatty steak where filet mignon used to be my favorite. Now I'm all about ribeye or a T-bone. I'm excited to go to Texas and just get like a big steak with a lot of fat on it.

I'm excited to have one with you. What did we do last night? And I do like I like we've been at nice restaurants and I'm like chewing the bone. And I'm like this is quite a beautiful sight. Well, yesterday was funny when we went to the Welkers and you were eating ham, which you don't feel great. OK, pork. It was pork loin. All right.

And you were rubbing butter on it. Just big chunks of butter. Like how is this? And salt. Yeah, it's funny because I remember the first time I ever heard of Carnivore. It was on Joe Rogan's podcast. I want to guess like three or so years ago. And I remember hearing it like this was like some freakish, weird, total fringe thing.

But a lot of people seem to be benefiting from it. Yeah. And I feel like that too. And the more I'm doing it, I'm like, okay. Stephanie Hogan, I think is the girl's name. There's a woman I really like on YouTube and Dr. Anthony Chasey, I don't know, some buff ER doctor guy who may live in Australia. I'm confused,

because he often is like interviewing Australians. I really like him, but like he only does beef. But I think it's like letting each person do what they need to do. But realizing like there is something, and I know it doesn't make sense, but I do feel like my body is healing itself. So like back in the day when I did GAPS diet and it was all bone broth, like I do feel like my body is healing itself. So like back in the day when I did gaps diet and it was all bone broth,

like I knew that was it. In theory, my body is healing itself. I didn't feel my body healing itself then, but now I do. And I'm mainly doing the bulk of my diet is beef and bone broth, steaks, ground beef. So I feel like my pyramid is like, like the bottom base is steaks and then I have bone broth and then I have ground beef. Yeah. And then I have other beefs. Oh and butter. Butters on there too. So how is it that milk hurts your joints but butter doesn't? What's the difference that you don't know? I don't know. I think there's something

about I'm not sure why this makes sense. We would have never even started this diet. I suppose I've also heard people say that I'd feel better if I took out butter but Screw those guys. I I don't know like I'm open to it Like if someone could show me why and if I would actually feel better. I'm happy doesn't have lactose Does butter interesting does butter have lactose I do not know the answer to this. Butter has very little. There you go. Oh, butter has very little lactose. Okay. So maybe it's the lactose. I'm not sure. There's also, uh, like ghee. I could do ghee as well. I just so much. So here's the thing. If you make your own. So I like,

like if you clarify butter, so you like cook butter and you take off the, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that little bit you like cook butter and you take off the yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that little bit. Oh my gosh. No, I yeah. It must be that little bit. There's something beautiful about good slab of Irish grass. Yeah. So it's gotta be. Yeah. So Amish butter's good. Kerrygold's the best in European style. So I only want the butter. That's like beautiful. Like like Kroger brand butter. No, that's not butter. I don't want to eat that. So tell us about I know you said you're weaning yourself off coffee. But for those at home, first of all, tell us how you did do coffee and then tell us about this.

So I have to be very careful with my coffee because of mold. So I can't have cheap coffee. So like at a hotel, I won't drink that coffee ever. Um, but like our coffee at home, I try to get organic beans or we have a friend that he, his beans, I trust him. Um, and it's not sitting for a long time. So I'll do that and I'll just have it black. And then I started putting a spoon, like a tablespoon of butter in it. And I'm like, this tastes better. Um, my new thing is I do a tablespoon or tablespoon and a half of butter, but I've made brown butter bits. And so basically you take butter and you cook it on the stove and it kind of starts to turn brown and you have to like keep moving it. And it almost, it doesn't caramelize, but almost,

and it kind of has like a caramel-ish taste to it. And then you put it in like a tray and put it in the freezer and people have it as like candy. It's not candy, but we pretend that it's candy and eat it. But I take that, I put it in a blender with hot water and a scoop of dandelion tea, which is like a powdered... For me, it's like a nice coffee replacement. So I do that, froth it, blend it, put it in a cup and it foams and it just looks lovely. And then I take a little bit of element tea, which is a electrolyte supplement and they have a chocolate salt one. So there is a little bit of stevia in this. This is like the only bit of little fake sweet stuff that I get. And I'll put a little like sprinkle on top of the drink.

And it's the closest thing I found to a latte that I'm really enjoying. Yeah, you gave me some the other day and I wasn't repulsed. And I thought I would be. I'm like, this is amazing. Now, one thing that's also surprising is just how much salt you have. So a lot. Yeah, that's fair. Tell us why you have to up your salt intake on carnivore and why that's not a bad idea. So I had to up my salt intake because of pots.

And so that's why I had to have my salt intake. So I don't know what you're doing, Matt. I started having a lot of salt as well. So carnivore people say up my salt intake because of pots. And so that's why I had to up my salt intake. So I don't know what you're doing, Matt. Cause I've started having a lot of salt as well. So carnivore people say up your salt as well. So I think it's the potassium that you're trying to get in the magnesium. I think it also just makes the flavor come out of the food and it adds variety.

So like sometimes I choose, like other times I'll use the nice pink salt that we have, the real salt. But then other times lately, I've been choosing to have the flaky stuff. It's like, I don't even know what it's called, but it's like, you know what I mean? It's almost like fancy flakes of salt. And then you're like, ooh, that's so different. I think just trying to find a little bit of variety. Yeah. But I wonder though, in a way, like I'll say even for me, now you said to me the other day,

when I was complaining, you said, how about you come to me when you've been doing carnivore? Think you were hungry for more than five minutes and then complain. And that's a fair comment. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. So that's my advice. If someone's gonna try carnivore, eat a good amount

and keep eating until you feel full. Like you will feel full. Listen to your body. Yeah. Well, I think what I said to you is I think one of the reasons people lose weight on carnivore is I just don't Want more meat? Oh, yeah, that's fair. I always have an emergency can of sardines with me Because it's easy to travel and I just keep them in my car and the other day I was at Gymnastics and that tournament just took forever and I was like I need my emergency can of sardines

So I went to the car got it ate my sardines. And I was like, I need my emergency can of sardines. So I went to the car, got it, ate my sardines. And then I was like, okay, I'm okay. And then we found a barbecue restaurant after and I got ribs and brisket. And like someone would have seen my order and be like, obviously that's for like a family of 10. No, just me. That's just what I'm eating.

Wow. And how careful do you have to be about how they cook? I have to be very careful. I think they cook? I have to be very careful. I think other people don't have to be as careful. No sauce. Can you just do it with just salt? Or if they do a seasoning. So there's like a taco truck here in town

and she, her seasonings are like so good. She doesn't have any bad stuff in it. So I'll have her meat, even though there is, I think it's like pepper, some herbs, but there's no MSG, there's no lectins, there's no. So yeah, it depends. I try to, I err on the side of being more strict. So like at most restaurants, I'll say just salt.

Mm hmm. Well, I was going to say earlier that, you know, I think it's more difficult to eat well when you have a lot of options. And I will say and maybe I'll change my mind next week. But right now, I like the simplicity. I really like the simplicity of, OK, I get to eat meat and me like a glass of wine at night. Right. Like that's that's the little exception I'm giving myself to make it through the day at this point. But I there's something nice about I don't have to look at ingredients. I don't have to. It's just it simplifies your life.

It does. Yeah, it does. And I think I learned that the first time I did carnivore and then that my go to when we go out to eat my go to used to be a salad and I bring my own dressing, but it's not anymore. Like there's so many and I just used to not go out to eat, my go-to used to be a salad and I bring my own dressing, but it's not anymore. Like there's so many and I just used to not be able to eat out. But now this does simplify where it's like, okay, I go somewhere where there's steak and I get it just the steak. They can cook it with just butter or no oil, nothing. And it does, it makes it easier, I think.

Where before my go-to would be like sushi. I don't have rice on often, but I knew I wouldn't normally react. So I feel like when we used to travel, sushi would be my go-to and I just have a little bit of rice. But yeah. So, okay, how are you planning? You and I are about to fly to Texas for Christmas to visit family. What are you, how are you planning ahead?

So I have electrolytes packed. I have some teas that I can have with me. I have a couple, I have probably six cans of sardines. I normally when traveling, so before we fly to Austria, I'll do the whole dehydrating all the meat where I make those meat chips, which is really good. I love the meat chips. I just haven't had time to do it. It's amazing how much junk jerky has in it from the store.

Yeah. And this is just meat and salt. Yeah. So I normally try to do that in advance. I, you could buy these carnivore chips. They're very expensive. I have one bag, so I'll bring that with me. I think mine tastes just as good. How much are they? I think it's like a bag this big, like I think it I think it was 20 bucks.

Yeah. I mean, I guess it makes sense if you're eating that, if it's a lot of meat. It's not. It's very small. It's like you open it up and even. Yeah, it's sad. Like I got them and I was like, are you kidding me? I've spent how much on this? But if you're traveling,

so normally I try to prepare a head or do like a hard boiled egg or two to have. I also, I think a lot of people combine intermittent fasting with carnivore. I don't keep track of it, but I've learned it's better for me not to eat than to eat something that I'm not sure about. So I plan on when we're done with this, going home, making a big steak, and then I should

be good until I get home. But otherwise, I can have burger patties from Wendy's. They just give me burger patties and I put salt on it. What oil are they using to cook them? I don't know, but I've only experimented with Wendy's. Some people say they can do McDonald's. I don't know. I don't know, but I've done that. And then I've also, I try to find barbecue and say just the brisket, no sauce.

It's funny, I think a while ago, you and I may have felt kind of bad about being that specific to people, but now it's like, you know what? Oh, I don't think I feel bad. Yeah. I guess I have in the past, like, sorry, what oil do you use? And I want to make sure this and this and-

No, I'm very confident. And like, I am allergic. I've had so many reactions. I'm allergic to all oils. Like I can have olive oil and then good fat, but I can't have bad fat. So I normally don't even say fat. So I feel like butter is my- So like at the restaurant we went to the other night, I'm like, butter, great.

That's it. That's the only thing the steaks cooked in. Just clarifying. Yeah. Yeah. Good. All right. This is lovely. Thank you for coming on. I want water, drink lots and lots of water. If anyone else tries it, you got to stay hydrated.

Yeah. Yeah. I love coffee. I don't think I can give up coffee. I know I could, but I don't want to. Yeah. I'm kind of like that as well, where I'm still, I still have it in my diet, but I don't need it every day. Yeah. Where I felt like I needed it before. Interesting. I need it.

Where I feel like I'm more alert and I don't know, do you notice me in the mornings? Since I've been doing carnivore, I feel like I'm- Everything has changed since you've done this. Yeah. I wouldn't say since you've done this. It took a while. I don't know how long, but just gradually you've you've come awake. You've come alive. Yeah. So what's the plan? I guess so. You and I go into Austria with the kids. I'm going to be co-teaching there.

So my plan was to do carnivore through Thanksgiving. And then it was like I committed to Christmas. So right now, Christmas is my next thing. Yeah. But I'm going to commit through. I should tell someone at Focus that I'm doing this. Yeah, you definitely should. Anyone watching this, please let Focus know. I guess once I guess once we're in Austria, then you can open up your diet.

So I'm going to wait till we're in Austria and then I'll slowly open up. And my plan is to stay fat burning. So I don't think I'll, maybe one day I'll have whatever, but I think my plan will be very little. So like just bringing in, like I'd like probably dairy first, um, seeing how I go, getting rid of that again, just bringing in like berries, and then just bringing in things where I stay keto and the bulk of my diet is still fat. So my body is burning fat, not because I wasn't having I didn't think I was having a lot of carbs, but I'd have sweet potatoes,

which is carbs, right? I didn't. Yeah, I didn't think of that. Now, I'm sure one question you get is, how are you getting your vitamins? Crazy, right? Apparently, you get it all from beef. I still don't know that I believe it, but I'm like, OK, if you weren't seeing like ridiculous, you know, healing right it, but I'm like, okay. If you weren't seeing like ridiculous healing right now, you would question it. Yeah.

And I just had blood work done and my doctor will order blood again for me. So this past time I was low in all the same things I was low in last time. But that was a while ago. But my white blood cell, my white blood cell count is always low. It's less low. I'm still low. But like say you're supposed to be like 25 to 30. I don't know what it is, but say that's the range.

I'm normally like 17, 18. I'm like, okay, if you were 10, we'd do something about it. But you're 17, 18. I was 19 this past time. So I'm still not where I ought to be. So I think that number will keep going up. That was about a month and a half ago. You went and got blood tests.

Yeah. So, and you've your night and day even from then. So I think so too. It'll be interesting to see. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. All right. As we wrap up,

what are some YouTube channels that you found helpful or? Yeah. So I'm really bad at knowing people's names. There's two doctors that I really like. If I, if I pull them up, I can tell you what they are. Do it or don't do it. No, look them up. Yeah,, please. I mean obviously Michaela Peterson is sort of spearheading this Her website lions diet is very helpful lionsdiet.com or or Look it up and I'll um

remember her saying that there's no way she would be doing this but It everything hurts when she doesn't does it But it everything hurts when she doesn't. Doesn't it? It doesn't do it. Lion's diet.com a healing elimination diet. This website is devoted to sharing information on dietary and lifestyle changes in the hopes that it can help you. It's amazing.

I wonder if there's gonna be a backlash to this. You know what I mean? Well, here's the thing. I'm not telling anyone else to do it. And I don't even know that I'm sold on it enough to be like, this is great. You'll feel better. I don't think most people are as sick as I was once.

It's like if you're desperate and you have nothing else, go for it. One thing's for sure. It's a lot harder to make a ton of money telling people to eat meat than it is to buy your health bar or your health drink. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I trusted in that sense that these people who are telling me, I mean, I'm sure they all have their little clubs and things to make money. No, I really feel like especially so there's two guys that I really like.

One's Dr. Anthony Chafee. Sorry, I don't really know how to pronounce his last name that I've really enjoyed. Um, and there's another one who's also a doctor. Um, I'm trying to remember his name or look at his name, but I feel like it is, um, they're not selling anything. Like I feel like they're, they're just sharing their story, what's happened and then patients of theirs that they've recommended, Hey, I recommend you do this. And they're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I went to the lion diet. Now I'm looking on, on the Instagram file or page. Yeah.

And then Dr. Ken Berry is the other one that I really like. Man. It's remarkable. Yeah. And it's, and there's a lot of girls that talk about it. Yeah, I don't look like him, but I'm thankful. I'm sure you're thankful I don't look like him. Yeah, it's so I joked with Laura, Laura Horn. We're going to go stay with friends of ours, Trent and Laura. And and she was asking diet wise what I need. I need I'm like Laura basically what I'm trying to do because

I love Mother Earth and the universe I'm trying to save her so I'm balancing out all the vegans so someone that's a vegan I'm pretty much eating the exact opposite of what they're eating. You're also doing your part to save the world from cow farts by killing them. That's true too yeah I care deeply care deeply about Cal Fartus. Deeply, deeply, deeply. I mean, this is remarkable. All these before and after pics. Yeah, and I do, I feel stronger.

Like I feel like I'm ready to start working out. It's amazing, Cammie. Which I haven't felt that in probably 10 years. It's amazing. Like I think the last time I legit worked out was probably 10 years ago. Yeah. And then I felt like I was going to die after. So I probably have some trauma.

Well, I think we were told, you know, like, well, maybe like Cameron's getting weak. This is back when we lived in Atlanta. So this was about four or five years ago that you really should maybe doing some exercise. If you remember, I brought you to CrossFit with me and you did nearly die. And I apologize for that. And then hindsight with EDS, like that was really bad for me, but we didn't know all my stuff, but basically they were like, that was the worst thing you could have done. I'm like, it took me like a week to recover. Like I was just so sick.

Cause I want to do the workout and I, and I'm capable of doing it in the moment. But then afterwards I'm like, everything hurts. Which is hard and humble for a former athlete. Yes. two things before you go everybody number one about 70% of people who watch this channel aren't yet subscribed So if you appreciate pints of the quietness and you'd like to support us in a non-monetary way and help the channel grow Please do that subscribe click the bell button really appreciate it second of all Cameron has a podcast called among the lilies Which she posts to not frequently, but it's always gold when you do Yeah, I probably average every other week. I try to average weekly, but yeah, so they can go follow you over there

Yeah, thanks a lot, babe. Yeah, you're welcome Beautiful