Pints With Aquinas - Catholic Infighting, Liturgy Wars, and Knowing Jesus w/ Michael Gormley (Gomer)

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

Support Us on Locals: https://mattfradd.locals.com/support Get Your Reclaim the Month Shirt: https://catholiclofi.org Gomer's Links: https://catchingfoxes.fm https://layevangelist.com https://paradisusdei.org/that-man-is-you/ [e-mail]  

Are you good to go boys? Are we live live? Yes. This is it. This is it. This is the show. So nice to have you. Yeah, it's good to be here.

Yeah. This is the first time we've done. No, it's not. I was gonna say it's the first time we've done a video show together. It is not the Matt Fradd show back in Atlanta and that terrible studio you had nothing but black curtains and sorrow and a lot of coffee and a lot of pee. I think I went through the episode when, was it Luke?

Luke is like, I gotta pee. I don't mean to be rude. I can't hold this. We all ran. It was good times. But I think that was before COVID lockdowns, which propelled online video recordings. Yeah.

Don't you think there was a real, Oh yeah. And a podcast tanked because people listen to audio podcasts on their commutes more often than not. And so everyone was like, let's throw all of our money in these audio podcasts, all this stuff. And it's like, nope, just a bunch of people get done with their zoom call and they watch a YouTube videos.

Did you actually see the numbers or just hypothesis? Oh yeah. No. And also, you know, cause I work with Ascension to produce, uh, every needs shall bow that they were like, Oh, we can't wait. And then it was like, Oh, this did not grow exponentially. Like we thought. Yeah. Whereas their videos did. Yeah. Cause I still think we get more audio downloads than video downloads. And that's been that way since like 2006,

there's a technology podcast used to fall. One of the first people doing podcasts and he was like, yeah All right We spend tens of thousands of dollars to make these videos and everyone's like I'll just listen to the audio Yeah, no, that's right. Yeah, which is I mean especially for long form fair enough who's gonna sit down for three hours and Is that your foot or someone knocking on the door I Don't know maybe it was my foot. I don't know. This building is pretty eclectic. It's terrifying. Everything about this place is fine.

I was like so excited to see the tin ceiling. I'm like, oh, this is this is what he's been talking about in all those episodes. I was FaceTiming my mum today and I put the phone back while I did something. She said, is that a door on your ceiling? No, I guess I can see what you mean. Yeah. This building is terrifying. The bathroom is the most terrifying. I know I always feel bad when females come on the show and I got to send them there. I'm so sorry.

Listen, we'll put you on a car. We'll get an Uber to the campus. Well, that's pretty awful. Pretty awful. So you asked for a feminine drink. Is that? I did. And I did. And we just got you an umbrella. Yeah. I appreciate it. It's good. And ice. Yeah. This is good. I like doing podcasts at night. Yeah. For this reason. It's just nice to get to chill. It's a different feeling, you know, but no one knows if it's at night. So you can be doing that six in the morning and still drinking, you know?

Well, they are live. Oh yeah. Okay. Well, yeah. Hi mom. But yeah, good are live. Oh yeah. Okay. Well, yeah. Hi mom. But yeah, good. Cheers. I did drink at like nine 30 AM during that one live stream. Wow. Is that a brag? Oh yeah. This is good. So you're here for a conference. Doing the youth conference thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun. Have things gotten weird? Like I got out of, I stopped,

I quit right before COVID lockdowns. The, the youth conferences. Yeah. So it was the perfect time because I got to seem like better than everyone. Cause I quit and then they weren't going to hire me back anyway. Cause everything had to be canceled. But I tell you, I had to go give a talk at a high school recently on pornography. And I've spoken about this forever, but it just, I don't get canceled. But I tell you, I had to go give a talk at a high school recently on pornography. And I've spoken about this forever, but it just, I don't know, maybe I was off my game or maybe it was just a different type of crowd.

But I felt like there was a gigantic disconnect between old Matt Fred and these kids. It is, I feel like there's an increasing gap between adults and high school students in doing ministry. And I don't care about the age, like I work with young adults who work with youths and stuff and they'll, they, everyone is saying the same thing, that is getting harder and harder to make connections,

harder and harder to reach them, harder and harder. If you're not in their friend group, which a youth minister should not be, hey, fellow humans, fellow high schoolers. No, but like it's just getting harder and harder to reach them. Right. And so what's your approach though? Like how do you feel when you step up in front of these? Yeah. Well I started a Twitch stream. No, uh, no,

what is my, I feel like, um, hitting areas where normal speakers, like a typical, you have to go outside the typical church talk, right? So you have to bring up things that they weren't expecting, right? You have to shock and all of them. It's like, what's her name?

Bishop Barron always quotes it from Flannery O'Connor, who talks about like, you know, in it. To the one's heart of seeing and hearing, you have to draw with big staggering circles and shout. That's not what you were going to say. Yeah. That is something from why it's her stuff. So grotesque and she's like, in order to get the deaf to hear you guys.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So basically what you said, you're drawing pictures or shapes. You kids see my Twitch stream shock them number. Actually, that would be a hilarious video. You kids see my Twitch stream? Shock them. No, that would be a hilarious video. A Laura Horn type video where you you teach other youth speakers how to connect to the. Dude, Laura Horn, man. Hilarious. Yeah, she's a gem.

She is his second on her episode with you was funny, but her episode making fun of her episode with you is way better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she's she's hilarious. So I think it was the, my comment about stand up females not being funny. And then someone criticizing me for that. Yeah. That sparked her podcast career.

Oh, that's right. The video. She did a podcast to respond to me or to defend me, but it wasn't very funny, she said. And she didn't like doing it. So she started the skit comedy. Yeah. She's very gifted. Yeah. She said, hilarious. Her voice is perfect. How I mean, it goes up and down and around and all that stuff. But that episode, uh,

so many people were watching the clip where she talks, which she's making fun of you, right? And she's like, which bit about waffles. And she's like, well, I don't really talk about waffles ever. And people were like, what the heck does that mean? I was like, well, it's called pints with a crinus and he don't really talk about waffles ever and people were like that What does that mean? I was like well, it's got pints with the kindness and he doesn't really talk about It anymore. That's right. Yeah. No. Yeah, she's very good. You know what's really funny about that That whole scenario when it went down like a month later I went to go see Jen full Weiler and stand up. Yeah, she came to Houston a bunch of us when was it funny It was it was very funny I actually thought you know going into it. I thought that it was gonna be would you say it wasn't to Houston a bunch of us went. Was it funny? It was. It was very funny. It really was.

I actually thought, you know, going into it, I thought that it was going to be. Would you say it wasn't? Yeah, I would say if it wasn't. I would. I'm going to speak my truth. No, but it was so funny because I'm watching all this and seeing all this stuff go down and I was like, well, we do have tickets in a month. And that conversation was just living in the back of my head the whole time.

We do have tickets in a month? To go see her live. Our friends of ours have bought them in an event and whatever. But yeah, it was my first time at a comedy club and it was awesome. I've been thinking, not to get too deep too quick, but I've been thinking lately about Catholic infighting. Yeah. Because I was just in Lewards and I bumped into Taylor Marshall. Right, you saw the photo.

Yeah. And it was lovely. Right, you saw the photo. Yeah. And it was lovely. Like it was a lovely interaction. And I thought to myself. Did you tassel his hair or anything? No. No. I don't get the joke to play along with it, but no.

You make a fun thing to do. Hey there, tiger. Slapped him on the behind. Nice. No, but I thought like if the internet didn't exist, and I knew about him because I read a book of his or something, we might go out for coffee or a beer and we might chat. He might say a few things about. I don't know if I'd phrase it that way.

Like, I don't know. That feels right. And he might say the same to me. But we both give each other the benefit of the doubt, as you do in human interaction. But and likewise, if I was sitting with Jennifer for a while and I said to her, I don't find female stand-up comics funny. I think women can be funny. I just I don't know if it's like their lack of like stage authority presence. Maybe that's just me. That's how I feel.

I'm open to being wrong. She might be like a little put out, but I don't think she'd be like offended. And likewise, the times I might find myself offended by people saying things publicly What is it though when we're in isolation saying things into megaphones? Yeah, that causes this division among us do you think yeah? I mean there's something about the internet that begs and an audience that begs you for hot takes in Ways that I mean like so I got off Twitter because I Honestly felt like I was gonna go to hell I felt like I was mortal sinning against atheists on Twitter because I wanted to be more snarky for my team

Then I cared about them and when these things just start compounding like I mean you have An an audience you have people that are cheering you on right people love that's right I mean who doesn't love a good takedown? Yeah. Right. Like, uh, you know, the, the, the books, critiques of atheists and stuff, especially like the new atheists, when, when they just use ad hominem against them, I'm like, yeah. Like when Ed Faser wrote that book against atheists, like it was incredibly snarky.

He said that Dawkins wouldn't know the difference between metaphysics and Metamucil. He said that Dawkins wouldn't know the difference between metaphysics and metamucil. But there's something about it and the internet connectedness I think is what causes us. Cause like I can watch you almost in real time detract against me, humiliate me, attack me. And then what am I going to do? Just sit there? No, I'm going to, it's an amplifying effect, right?

So my big thing with with the internet right is take a breath. I need to take a breath I get criticisms all the time. Well, mostly just on catching boxes But we get these criticisms and I remember the first time I got like a really personal mean Catholic criticism and I read through it and it was a guy just blasting us for banter, like everything that we do for banter for our, uh, you know, goofy sense of humor, you know, very stupid. And then for, uh, the occasional cuss word and just like ripped us a new one. And I, I didn't, I honestly didn't know how to handle it at that time. And I just wrote him an email

in the kind of imitating the president and CEO of Southwest. And I just said, sorry to lose you as a listener. And that's it. And then he wrote back like a five page email cussing me out. I was like, no, he did not. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

After complaining that you cuss? You POS for not taking my criticism seriously. And I just said, and so then I replied and I just sent him a list of podcasts that are not us. And I was like, these meet your criteria. I don't need to be what you want. I don't know how to deal. I don't know. It's a parasocial. You've heard the phrase parasocial. He first introduced me to it. Yeah. Did you, did you listen to that podcast from a Ms. Ruby? Mrs. Ruby. So she's a Twitch streamer, amazing catholic, good egg fun. She's

incredible. She cooks on on twitch. Awesome person. We've had her on the show a couple times. Uh, and she um, had a basically a stalker and so she made a podcast that's kind of like the the the old serial podcast where it's like a little like crime, you know, whatever, true crime style. I mean so she did it so well, but it was about this guy and all the stuff that he would do for her, but with a creep level of like 10, right? And she talks about a parasocial relationship

where it's like, I know you, I've known you for years, but I don't know everyone out there. And so when I meet people, it's like, they already know me, but I don't know them. And so they, and there's a weirdness there. And we usually laugh about it because my fans are laughable, funny people, but there can be that element of like, Hey, I own a piece of you. Yeah. Because we're friends, you know, and they, some people don't know how to turn that off. Yeah. And there's the pressure on your end of knowing, okay, this person is going to get, he's going to know me in real life for 10 seconds. Yeah. And if I'm off,

then the story he's going to tell everyone is Gormley is like a jerk and Gormley is a jerk. Yeah. Which is why I, even when I was a young kid, I remember my auntie met a famous cricket player and she said how he was a real jerk. And even as a young kid, I thought, maybe he just was having a bad day or like, or maybe you were weird. Like why does it have to be his fault? You did smell his hair. You did tussle a little.

A little tussling, yeah. I remember at, when me and you and Luke were at Seek, right, and then you were like, I'm such an introvert, I can't stand to be at this table anymore. So you left and we were passing out all your Pets and Coins and stickers, cause we were like, yes, more attention. Please. Yeah. You're not here for us. Yeah. I was one of the fans who walked up looking for Matt and met you guys. Oh, you must've been so disappointed. No, it was fun. You remember marching around

seek with a giant flag in Indianapolis? Yes. That was us. Oh, do you really remember? Yeah. That's incredible. We had a giant flag and Luke ran down Mission Way. Your intentions, like what if you really said it wasn't funny? That did you really remember? I have that face that looks like I'm fake. Yeah, no, I get it. You quit running down Mission Way with the giant flag. That was me and my buddies.

That was you and your buddies running down. That's actually how I got him to work for me. He doesn't actually don't even pay him. He was a stalker. Right. And I was really if you really want a piece of that, come at it. My show. That's right.

Yeah, that's awesome. No, but I mean, you know what? What more about like Catholic, you know, in fighting? It's because it felt like because you and I are old enough and ugly enough that we remember a day when podcasts didn't exist and Benedict or John Paul II was at the helm and it felt like we were all on a team. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Didn't it? Yeah. I mean, when you read, read Cardinal McCarrick, a lot of his public writings,

a lot of them were toe in the line of JP Tuism, right? A lot of it, you know, the communion stuff, the personalism stuff, not all of it, obviously, not the one, whatever, a chords or whatever agreement that he signed, Land O'Lakes agreement. But there's a lot of stuff in there that like a lot of people realize, like oh, this is the new guy, we gotta toe the line with the new guy. And we gotta present this face.

But now it's like, well, we know every minute of every day of what they're doing and thinking. And you know, over at the pillar, they track the cell phone and all the different places that it went that were unto word. And you could find out all this stuff. It's crazy. Like the level of connection and access. Is the point you're making that the, the internet is largely responsible for the fracturing among.

I mean not, well humans are original sin is largely responsible for it. But I mean, just think about the level of access. Like we know, like the Pope tweets. Okay. I mean, probably not him, but also we know everything that is going on. We have reporters who are doing around the clock coverage. We have a level of access that we otherwise part of it. Yeah. I mean, like just think if you were a German Catholic in the 1500s, I mean, what, what did you know about the Pope's daily life?

You know, what statues some group brought that came to pray? You have no idea and you probably don't care. And you probably didn't even know what your bishop was up to or the priest in the parish next door. You knew what your priest was doing, but. So without giving this much thought, I would say we've got three reasons for the Catholic infighting. You're so systematic. One, yeah, Thomas. Number one, see I do talk about Thomas, Laura. One is, as you say, like we know everything immediately.

Unprecedented access. It's so unhelpful. Two would be having a very unclear, I'm saying that as charitable as I can, Pope. Very unclear. A lot of us feel like where's the guidance in these social moral issues that we don't feel like we have guidance on. And then third, it was like we all have a megaphone now. Like I'm talking about you and me.

I'm talking about like little people who spoke like us, like not McCarrick or whatever, but like we spoke on platforms at high schools, at these public events. Yeah. But now we all have these gigantic megaphone that are reaching hundreds of thousands of people So I would say those three things together Maybe either bringing out differences We didn't know that we had or maybe we realized there's time for a shift and how we evangelize or what we put our emphasis on

That's shifting. Yeah, we can stop talking about this if it's not interesting. Well, no, I was just thinking like It is funny with the power of this medium, which is why this medium needs to be respected, right? There needs to be more discipline, more discernment in this medium because, or, or if there's going to be less, less deliberation before you get on the microphone, your audience needs to be the type that receives it that way. Like, Oh, this is just a casual conversation. I mean, we didn't prepare anything. No, you, you literally told me not to prepare and not to preach, uh, to make a cash totes,

cash. But like, think about this. Like if, if we, because we have audience, like, so I'm about to do this youth conference with thousands of kids every week, I produce a podcast. I produce two podcasts that have more download, more listeners in that one week that it's released than three of these conferences. You know, your listeners, how many subscribers you got? What's your countdown clock? You call yourself a YouTuber? Oh yeah. How much? Thousand. No, just 362.

Oh man. Why am I wasting my time? I need an audience Yeah, but like I mean just think about that like and then how that affects our brain Yeah, right how that affects our self of like I get to speak into these issues and it's like you don't have any maturity Gormley, what are you doing speaking into these issues? Yeah, but there also is a reason why certain people bubbled at the top Okay that they can navigate these things Right How many people do you know could sit down in front of a microphone? Cause this is performance as much as we pretend like it's not. And as much as we're drawn on our friendship and stuff,

but this is still performance. How many people do you know, could do what you do? I don't know very many. Everybody could do this. You say that, but to be funny, to keep it on target. I remember the early days of the Matt Fradd show where you were like, I kept interrupting. We can talk about those moments. Like you just mentioned that, that email you got, you didn't know how to handle.

We should definitely talk about some of those because he's a real, and pretending that nothing affects you is so unhelpful to everybody else. And it's a lie. But yeah, when I had Christopher West on my show and I interviewed, I interrupted him, maybe like I'm doing now, I don't know, like every four sentences. Yeah. I got torched and rightly so like I listen back to my dad But it is funny because Christopher West though as I interrupt you Christopher and that's not going to be a thing the whole time Uh, he is and you had called me beforehand and you said what do I need to know?

I'm going to interview Christopher West. What do I need to know? And I was like he'll get into his mode where he just goes into lecture So you need to make sure you're interrupting him. And, and yeah, that is it. Yeah. So I think people of his age bracket, who maybe we used to speaking on EWTN and Catholic Answers Live, they had the perfect answer for the particular question. Like, what's your thoughts on, what do you say? And the Protestant says this about contraception and they've got like the eight

and a half minute perfectly worded response, right? And then more than that he does courses where he has honed his craft so well that he can speak very convincingly Articulately on a particular topic, but I think what this has allowed us this format has allowed us is just to talk casually Yeah, but I don't think a lot of people were ready for that Including Christopher, I think at the time, which is why I, you know, in fairness to me, that is what I was trying to do. I was trying to break him out of these excellent points he had to just chat.

Come on, man. But instead, Chris, but I should have just said that instead of trying to derail it in the moments. Well, it's so hard because, you know, here's the other thing that just happened to me this morning Was it yesterday I was yesterday I started going back and forth in this conversation with one of my favorite listeners and she knows who she is and she was critiquing something that I had said in the previous episode and one of the things that really sucks about casual conversations is You say the thing you're thinking of but you're not thinking a complete thought, right?

So there's a thousand things I wish I wish I would have said. And I'm sure like you've talked about that in your followup to the bench Shapiro episode where you didn't look at them on a screen. But the, but like they're right. You run through the things like, ah, and then so, or you don't even think about it. You're like, that was great. I said my truth. I said some controversial thing. I put it out there. I felt like I defended it. And so I'm like, but you left out all of this stuff and now I hate everything about you. And that's not what this person said, but they were like,

so there's all like a discord server posts. And I'm like, did I really, did I, I just, like you say incomplete thoughts, right? And there's no, it's not that there's no, cause this, this person I'm talking about is awesome, but for a lot of people, like that's the lot of the angry emails is, yeah, well, well, actually, you're like, oh, OK, there's no grace given. There's no quarter given. It's all slaughter all the time. Yeah. Well, I mean, I just had Kim Zemba on the show the other day. So beautiful. Good.

I still wish we had a had a football throwing competition because even if she thinks you can beat me, I'm pretty sure I could beat her Accuracy or or length like strength or definitely definitely length I blame it on being Australian and then I'd say a kicking competition But anyway, my point was there was a photo of the two of us say, you know holding up the image Which we will never talk about Abbe will tell that after and someone's, I cannot believe she is wearing jeans. How immodest that kind of thing.

And I'm like. For the trees, this is to your point about but this beautiful woman just had the courage to share how she was in this homosexual lifestyle and and how she loves our Lord and yet better genes. You know what? When I find that,, so I'm catching Fox's occasionally, a cuss word will slip and that is occasionally. Have you toned it down since I last listened? I'll be honest. I have listened to a couple of episodes lately and I'm really glad I've gotten back into y'all cause it's an excellent podcast by the way, catching foxes.fm.

Nailed it. Yeah. We, we, we toned it down. We've toned it down ish. Uh, at times I used to bleep out cause I think bleeped out cuss words can be funnier than cuss words. Right. So, but there's this element of, um, that is like, how dare you? And I think for a certain sense, well, number one scripture obviously condemns in the book of Syrac like abusive language, St. Paul talks about your speech should be edifying. Like I get all of that. The problem is when we move that to like, you know,

just right under like abortion for mortal sins, for, for Christians or Catholics or whatever, like people are super sensitive to certain things and it's set. I mean it really is triggering. It sets them off. And it's like, dude, in the grand scheme of things, this is one of the least important things. But for certain people, it's like, no, it's like a canary in the coal mine.

You're actually rotten, and this is why you have foul speech. Out of your mouth comes all sorts of evil. I'm like, okay, I get that argument. It hurts a little. It hurts a little. But I find it weird. In fairness to you and Luke, what you were trying to do was to say What if we just had conversations without trying to impress people without being overly prepared?

What if we just did that? Yeah, and I think that's why your podcast is so refreshing at least for people like me where it's like I don't find it offensive But if even if someone found it offensive, they can at least appreciate their talking Yeah, the way they would. The goal of catching Fox's from the beginning was we're not here to tell people what to think. As in like, because I love Catholic answers. I think you were.

Yeah, you had left Catholic answers by this point, but I love that that content. I own many of their books, consumed all the stuff at At the same time, it's a style of show, right? Just like you said, like, I'm a Protestant, what should I think about Mary? And then they give this beautiful answer that I write down and then I repeat at church and everyone thinks I'm a genius. But then you have this element where it's like, yeah, but I'm just an ordinary Catholic.

Most young adult Catholics do not live anywhere in your community of other young adults who care. They go to mass and they're with 50, 60, 70 year olds. And there, there's a profound experience of alone. The, one of the most common things that we get when we ask our people, like, why do you listen to us? They say, you feel like this is the kind of friends conversations I had with my friends back home or back when I was in college or before I moved away. And Luke's idea of kind of like how he framed it, and Luke very much is the origin of it all, is these are the conversations people have

that are like the conference speakers when the conference is over. Like you're just sitting around, you're chit chatting, maybe you got a drink, and we used to have drinks everywhere. Yeah, you're thinking things through. And so for us, the push was always, this is discussion over instruction,

which was Luke's tagline that I think is brilliant. And I definitely snap into the instruction mode more push was always this discussion over instruction, which was Luke's tagline that I think is brilliant. It is. Yeah. And I definitely snap into the instruction mode more than Luke does because Luke very much is an intuitive grasp. Right. He's like, Hey, you know, what about this or something doesn't sit right there. And meanwhile, I'm the guy who's like, okay, he said that line and I'll quietly pull out a book and I'll be like, yes, I remember that. Okay. Frank, she said this. So I'll start doing that. But that's the thing is like, and I think podcasts,

especially long form stuff like this gives us the freedom to think things through together. So, but if your audience is expecting didacticism as opposed to discussion, you're going to get ticked off. I just made a joke through the day. I did a review of something Brett Cooper had to say about pornography. I joke that it's now my responsibility to respond to every daily wire employee who misspeaks on pornography to correct them and pontificate.

But one of the points I made in that video is I don't think it's charitable to pretend that in the context of a long-form discussion, what somebody has to say on a given topic must be their crystallized, finished opinion on that topic. Yeah. But so often we do that, especially in response videos. Oh, she said this. Notice she used this word, not that word. And yeah, yeah. And that, and especially if you have an agenda or you come with a hurt and you've been hurt by the content, you can single things out and sort of. The other thing I was thinking about on the plane as I was flying out here,

I'm reading this wonderful book by Robert Hugh Benson called The Friendship of Christ. And I'm going through that book, another one of the Anglican converts, going through the book and the guy has such a systematic way of viewing a personal relationship with Christ in a deeply Catholic way, wrote it 120 years ago, whatever. And as I'm going through that, I thought,

this guy's mind, obviously he's writing a book, he's not giving a talk, but I can't systematize it the way he did. And I started thinking, do I really have a coherent thought? If someone were to come up to me a year from now and say, hey, what do you think about this topic that I just talked about on Catching Foxes? Would it even be remotely the same as what,

these are, we're such, becoming, right? We are not, we're not done, but even more so, I feel like I just lately, especially just more scattered, you know, I don't have coherent frameworks wherein I'm not Thomas starting from first principles and perfectly working it out or darn near. Yeah. Yeah. Our epistemology is less like skyscrapers one thought logically preceding a different one Yeah, it's more just like scattered rubble a few bricks over here, you know, that's that's how I scattered rubble Yeah, that describes my back. Yeah. Well that that's me. Anyway, I don't want to put that on anybody else Certainly not people like Trent Horn. Oh my gosh, Jimmy Akin. Yeah, how do they do it? Jimmy Akin? What is it?

Well, there are two schools of thought. You're like, what the? Actually, 2.5. Yeah. Aliens. Yeah. Did you see his debate with that Australian fella on Soloscriptura? I did not.

I did not. First of all, I just want to give the Australian fella, I forget his name, the other Paul, I think his name is, complete props. I mean, he was, it's no shame on him, but he brought a spoon to a knife fight. I mean, Oh really? You can't go up against Jimmy Aiken. Where was it? Cameron Batusi. Okay. Cameron's thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the way Jimmy thinks he's so, but what's interesting is when you just, like he called me the other day and we

just, we're just chatting for the sake of chatting. Yeah. But he speaks so simply like, you know, and and almost almost like he wonder if he's dumbing everything down. Maybe he is. But yeah, yeah. But do you find as you're getting older? Is is that noticing worse? It's so much worse. You know, the the funny thing is the lifestyle of sitting in a chair and drinking Dr. Pepper and screwing around on the computer has Turns out it catches up with you. Turns out. Luke always talks about like when you're in your 20s, you could go out party like you don't leave the house till nine o'clock at night to party. We used to shut down

when we would go out to bars, we would shut down every bar we would ever go to. The mouse trap maybe. Oh gosh. I've never been there, but I want to go every there's a place. There's there's a true True, Ohio Valley place called Cross Creek Tavern. Okay that owned my soul I remember at an ancient Greek test one test in ancient Greek language was gonna be a Six credit hour grade because it was a summer immersive class and I went out drinking the night before, close the bar down.

I just, you know what? And you woke up and you took the test. Uh, the crazy thing about that is like twenties, early thirties. Yeah. And then when you're in your late thirties, something shifts, like you no longer have a left knee and a right knee or a good knee. You have a good knee and a bad knee, not a left knee and a right knee. And like weird things start happening and I just it's like I'm in too many places with my mind I'm thinking about my kids I'm thinking about my wife I'm thinking about my my three jobs I'm thinking

about the next episode who are we gonna get to be interviewed on Catching Foxes what's gonna happen you know you're thinking about 10 million but you're 20s what are you thinking about where you're gonna go drink that night like that's what you're thinking about yeah well what do you think about Thursday I am now that you mentioned he threw me in matches well yeah you thinking about? Where you're gonna go drink that night? Like that's what you're thinking about. Yeah what do you think about Thursday? I am now that you mentioned it. Can you throw me the matches while you're thinking about what you think about? I am now thinking about if I want to go drink tonight now that you mentioned it. I wasn't considering it before but now I'm thinking it could be nice to go drink tonight. Do you feel morally obliged to drink on Thursday since your name is Thursday? No there is a meme in the discord though where every Thursday everyone sends me a message

that says happy birthday. That's awesome. I respect that with a little little picture of Chester Tins book. No, they they took you remember the frog that was it's Wednesday my dudes. No, it's an old zoomer meme. Anyway, there's a frog and it was captured and we'll see zoomer meme. Those are contradictory That's a contradictory sentence Frogs that it's Wednesday my dude, they photoshopped my face onto it nice

I get sent that by like ten people internet humor is the best humor stuff like that memes memes are why the internet exists? Yeah, thank God memes are great that exists. Yeah, thank God. Memes are great. Yeah, I think it was a Babylon B article that said after 30, it's backaches and dieting until death. That's me. That's me. The old carnivore diet back again.

Are you for how long you've been doing it again? So I started in January, January first, new year, new me. Me and my wife did it together. It was awesome. Dropped 30 pounds in in three months. Mm-hmm, then Easter hit and I said, you know what? We're gonna celebrate

We're gonna we're gonna live it up. We're gonna celebrate the resurrection 50 days of drunken to but no, I'm just kidding but no I I eased it up a little bit and then This is the thing like you know what you talk about I, I eased it up a little bit. And then, uh, this is the thing. Like, you know what you talk about? You can be a moderator or you can be an abstainer, right? You're either, yeah, I gotta get rid of it completely. I can't just do a little. Moderation is difficult for me. Yeah. I'm either all in in the debauchery camp or the fasting. Yeah. Yeah. So,

I mean, you can't just do one line of Coke. Uh, but like the idea in your head is no, I no, I mean, I can do this. It's fine. I've been living this very restrictive diet, you know, getting this stuff out, feel great. I can have tonight at the Easter, so the church I go to, Church of the Presentation of the Lord Catholic Church and the Ordinarian,

after the three and a half hour vigil mass for the Easter vigil, you go out and then you have a four hour long party, right? And all the families stay and I closed down. I was the last one to leave at five 30 in the morning. It was awesome. Wow. Best day of my life.

But you have this experience like, oh yeah. But like with me, obviously food is, is an issue. Right? So there's this emotional attachment that I didn't even know. I never think about like, I'm an emotional eater. Like I am totally. I had no idea I was. And I, never think about it. Like, I'm an emotional eater. Like, I am totally. I had no idea I was. And I started gaining it back and now I'm...

I don't know. I see. This is going to sound like I'm being patronizing. I don't like that you say that about yourself because you're actually just a big guy. Yeah, but the bigness is fact. Your weight on me would look terrible. Yeah. But you're you it's like the line from Jim Gaffigan.

We all have that friend who lost a lot of weight and you're like, you look better fat You're thin, but you look exhausted sunken eyes and Yeah, I know a man I Truly truly is like am the levels of self-knowledge every phase of life You have to have a new level of self-knowledge, right? We change so much and I just feel like I'm at this place where I'm like, what, how did I get away with this?

Like these weird patterns of thought that just existed in the back of my head. And I just took advantage of it, I guess because youth allows you, you know, you have more energy, you're doing more stuff. But like forever, my job, right? You're sitting at a desk, you're doing this stuff, I come home, I'm with the kids,

I'm sitting down at dinner trying to do the things, family prayer, I'm sitting down. And I look at my step count. It's like, Oh, I hit 4,000 steps today. I've walked a little bit more than a corpse. So maybe like weekend of Bernie's, but uh, yeah, like it's awful. So just trying to be intentional about this stuff. You fell off the wagon, but you fell off the way and then have you gotten back on? Oh yeah. Yeah. So the last month and a half I've been rededicating and working out every day. So I work out twice a day and I'm terrible. But dude, me too. You, you, I do

you just realize like strength of body equals strength of mind, right? Like, so it doesn't matter where you are that going from a zero to anything is exponential and you reap the rewards going from a five to a six doesn't feel that big a leap but going from a zero to a one you feel like ha I got a feeling right like the young boys like thirsty over there like he's got to be watching the like people like Andrew Tate probably talking about working out or whatever else no please don't say I watch Andrew take but this is this episode yeah is gonna be so inspiring to all our 40 year old males out there. Because we're just going to be like, listen, anything's better than nothing. You know that? You know that time when you get out of a chair, but you can't?

Like you intend to, but it's just there and you're doing that thing where your feet are kicking and you're like a tortoise on a shell. So let me kind of share with you what I've been doing lately that's not at all impressive. Just in the size. Yes. In the nude. No, but yeah. Wow. No, but when I wake up, that's my best time of the day. I'm totally sharp till about 10 45 a.m.

and then I'm done. No. So when do you wake up? I tend to wake up at about some time just before seven. OK, naturally. Naturally. OK, I wake up at about some time just before seven. Okay. Naturally. Naturally. Okay. I wake up. I do a few particular prayers, put on the sneakers. No, yeah, I have a sauna. I'm blessed enough. I have a sauna in the backyard, turn the sauna on. And then I go and I run, but it's nothing.

It's three. It's three laps of a block. Okay. It's nothing at all, but it's something. It's something. It's something. It's not nothing. So I come back. I have a little prayer in the sauna, have a shower. And then what do you pray in a sauna? I pray to Jesus prayer.

OK, yeah, you're so Eastern. You are so you're reading an orthodox prayer like what is going on with that? That's it. We can wrap that up. But just like it's small things are better than no things. Well, the small things add up. Right. I mean, our Lord said that. Right. We can wrap that up. But just like it's small things. Yeah, better than no things. Well, the small things add up. Right. I mean, our Lord said that right. You can be faithful in small things. You'll be faithful in great things. Right. We always think and this is a line that you get from the military.

You always think you'll rise to the occasion, but you don't. You fall to the level of your training. Right. That's the phrase they say. That's why you got to train so hard. And when you think about it from that perspective, in the terms of your bodily health that you've neglected, if you neglect your bodily health, we all think, okay, I'm walking down the street in Steubenville, nothing but violence,

you're terrified all the time, and then all of a sudden you see people building a timber structure. You can speak like that because you used to live here. Other people can't speak like that, but we'll let you do it. Oh my gosh, so terrifying. Dated a girl who on one side of the house was one of the biggest

drug mules, biggest drug mules in like the tri-state area. I used to go up to Chicago, fill his minivan with drugs and drive to New York. And then on the other side, violence, home that, and then two doors down from that was another drug dealer. And you're like, oh, and then three doors down from that Scott Hahn Hans house, right? Like they're all, it's all just there. But any who the, uh, like you think you're walking down the street, someone's going to come and assault you. Like, what do you do? What do you do in that situation? You're like, well, I'm going to beat them up. And it's like, no, you're not an 18 year old boy is going to make a fool out of you.

Right? So the dedication of, of physical exercise, there's a Catholic father, can't remember his name, wrote a book called The Intellectual Life, and part of it, almost the entire career of- It's excellent. Oh, do you remember his name? It's phenomenal.

Yeah, Thursday looking up. I've read a couple of times, a little red book. Yeah, yeah. Well, he talks about the use of, he has these letters that he writes back to some people, and part of it is like, yeah, you need to have physical physical health physical exercise You need to do that for the life of the mind. I'm like, yeah

Yeah, yeah, and I'm so I wake up in the morning first thing if I don't do it first thing in morning But I get into zone to walking So much cardio, it's like so there's like four zones and if you go too fast, right? Your heart's like pound and you can't split is it so tail. That's it. Yeah. I can't say his name. Frenchy McFrenterson. But he, uh, but like the idea is like just a little bit more than regular pace. You've got to elevate your heart rate. You gotta be sweating, but not so that you can't finish a conversation. If someone walked up and said, how you doing? You could say a couple of sentences without like huffing and puffing, right?

Yeah, that's zone two. And that's actually super efficient for your life and your cardio health. And if you stay doing stuff like that, you're like, I've already seen it in my Apple watch, right? The keeper of all data. It's always like, hey, you're improving the last six weeks in your peak resting heart health and blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, okay, let's do that, right?

It's 115 degrees in Houston right now. And me and my wife, we go for a walk right before noon and afternoon. And I'm like, I just want the heat. I just, I want it. I want the difficult thing. So I do the, you, you, you said one time in your podcast, uh, wake up in the morning, fall on your knees and say, grab a crucifix, say Jesus Christ. What is the phrase? Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me. Yeah. I think there's going to be some initial giving of the day to the Lord. Yeah.

You wake up, you've got all these murky thoughts clamoring for your attention, right? What did I just dream? Yeah, like that. Exactly. But then as soon as you grasp onto reality, you just got to do something. So like, get on your knees, put your head to the ground, say something. And it's you've never felt less holy or pious at a time like that, because you're exhausted and you're in your pajamas or maybe you sleep in the nude or whatever. I wear this really cute onesie. Yeah. Yeah.

Which also is what I wear when I do jazz or size. That's the last part of my fitness thing. lot of jazz or sighs gonna get into weight training You ever heard of rocking you ever gone rocking? You know what rocking is you know about you is when you get into something I kind of upset you end up knowing more about it than the guy who wrote the book on it. Well, actually Yeah, it's it's fine But the rocking the idea of like putting a rucksack on your back and going, you know, military marching with your heavy weighted bag. Well, they actually found out that,

especially for people trying to lose weight, if you weight down a bag and then go for a walk, the weight that you're carrying elevates your heart rate, does all this stuff. Causes spine damage. We didn't know that until then. We did. Scientists had no clue.

In the 50s, they said it was good for your spine. No, no, but I actually am interested in what you said. So you weigh down the backpack. Yeah, they come up with little plates and you put the plates in your backpack, you strap it on. You gotta have a good rucksack because otherwise, like you weren't in a Jansport, it's like my sciatica,

which is a thing you have to worry about when you're in your 40s. But yeah, you just go and you do the walk. And they have different metrics and stuff like that, which I don't really know about. But go. Have you been doing this? that, which I don't really know about, but, uh, go. I know, but I've bought one on Amazon. It'll be at my house on Monday. Yeah. I mean, I just, I love walking.

I love being out and just gone as long as I can. You know, when I wake up at, I usually get up around five 45. I go down, I say my Jesus prayer. I go downstairs. Uh, typically my wife, we, she'll get up at six. So I get the coffee going. Perfect day. Right? I sit down and I open up the gospels and I read the gospels right now. I'm obsessed with, um, trying to understand, trying to observe, right? We always want to interpret. We always want to like get to the not, but Scott on said this when I was in Dr Scott on, I call him Scott. Um, he said in class one time

We always want to skip the middle step and go right to interpretation but the the the step that we skip is observation and Frank Sheed Is a master in his book to know Christ Jesus and what difference does Jesus make those two books? His book to know Christ Jesus and what difference does Jesus make those two books? master of observation Like Jesus invited this disciple at this time and then these three feasts were mentioned and now it's this time So that's about six months later and you're like Huh? The time frame that he's drawing from that

Probably if you were living as a Jew in the first century a Gentile in the first century You would have picked up on that like oh, yeah I'm aware of the time frame, but he draws these things out so much more in depth. And so I have a journal, I read the gospels, and I just write what I observe, right? It's my prayer, it's my morning focus on the word of the Lord and just the gospels. Nothing else, ain't nobody got time for that.

Just, because I want to know Jesus, right? And so I just sit there and I write, the funniest thing is it used to be one day I would you know chapter one of Luke I write stuff But then I would be lost in the Magnificat or the Canticle of Zechariah And I'm just writing and writing and I look at my watch and it's an hour and a half I'm like I've only did I've only done like 14 verses or 10 verses and so that's what it's become now for me my morning Prayer I actually have to set a timer to stop meditating on the scriptures and observing the scriptures because I just get lost and I'm like, Oh, what? Oh, look, like, look chapter four, he

starts off the report of him went through out town and he went through all the synagogues preaching and teaching in their synagogue. Then it's the rejection at the synagogue at Nazareth. Then it's the miracle with Simon Peter, like with his mother-in-law and then healing. But when you sit back and you start observing it, you're like, he goes to Simon's mother-in-law's house, or Simon's house, and he heals his mother-in-law. She starts working with him. Then the town is coming to him because the reports spread.

They show up at night, and he heals, he lays hands on every sick person and every demonically possessed person. And then the next verse is, and at dawn, when the sun rose, Jesus went off into a lonely place. And you're like, this guy healed Simon's mother-in-law, preached at the synagogue, goes to his mother-in-law's, Simon's house. I keep saying mother-in-law, goes to Simon's house, does this, and then it's just all day long and then doesn't go to bed, goes to prayer. And then he leaves to go and preach in the Judean synagogues. And it's like, I never noticed that.

I never noticed all the times that the report of him went throughout the country or in the surrounding region or whatever. And you realize like, oh, well, that's why there were literally thousands of people in Luke chapter five, verse one through 12, where he had to get on a little boat and push out from the sea in order to talk to all the people. Because he'd been doing this for weeks and weeks, and everyone knew. Right? And he's staying there, he's doing this hands-on, literally hands-on ministry so long. And these details I totally miss, right? Because I'm looking for the proof text, I'm looking, ha ha, take that Protestants, you know, ha ha, take that,

you know, whatever. And we're losing Christ, you know what I mean? We're losing him when we're not paying attention to all these details. So, every morning my wife listens to, I'm not jealous, but a little jealous, Father Mike Schmitz, Catechism in a Year. She sits there with the Catechism open. She does the full thing, and then I sit there with the Bible, and then we wrap up. One of us goes for a walk, one of us deals with the kids, have our cup of coffee, talk about the day. Yeah. Jared What about when you read the Bible and you find that you're looking for that nice little cutesy verse that makes you feel a certain way? Because I think that's also sometimes what we do.

I don't mean to kind of diminish that sentimentality or meeting God on the heart level at all, but so on one side you've got looking for that particular proof text, as you say, but is it what you're talking about with observation, Is that also different to like finding that inspirational verse that you try to connect to your life too quickly? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's totally different because I'm hunting for connections, right? I'm trying to see things like, oh, why, why do you say this here? You know, and it's not study. I don't want to bring in other books. I can study at a different time. In the morning, I'm just there to observe Christ. Because I want to get in my head, like me and you, okay, so I've known you before you were married.

I know I've known your wife for years when she was a youth minister and hanging out at St. Simon and Jude and all that stuff. I have a certain image of you, and I have a certain image of her, and I have a certain image of you too, because our interactions, that no one who only knows you online has, right? That's right. And you know, the fact I took over y'all's apartment, your newly-wet apartment. I want to talk about that at some point, because I need this documented in a video. We'll get to that. So funny, so funny. But like, I have a certain image of you, right? And this is what Frank

Schied talks about in To Know Christ Jesus, is like, too often we have an image of great preachers and great teachers, their image of Christ. And we aren't sitting down doing the wrestling with the text at all. So, it's like, you can have these friends, and if you only know a person through other people, you have only their image of it, right? And so, I want that image of Christ for me. And that's been a thing I've talked about forever. Like, every time I form Protestants who want to become Catholic, and this program at St. Anthony's called Inclusion, it was RCIA, but just for well-formed Protestants who wanted to become Catholics. It was largely apologetics, the

issues that we disagreed with, and I focused all of that within the context of the Paschal Mystery. We all agree that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the most important thing. Here's why it feeds into the papacy, the sacraments, Mary, all that stuff. But the thing I tell them to do is, okay, it's day one. If you don't have a consistent prayer life, open the Gospel of Mark, chapter one, and read. And then when you finish Mark, read two chapters a day, when you finish it, go back and start it all over again, and it's like you're reading a new book, even though you just started two weeks ago It's a new book like the gospels are so rich. There's so much there and so getting people getting people back into

Like who is jesus? Why? Like well the sheathes great line we think of jesus, uh gentle and meek of heart right Not a single pharisee would say that about Jesus. Not a single tax collector, maybe the tax collectors, maybe the prostitutes, but the majority of people, Pontius Pilate, he wouldn't say that, right? Simon Peter, he probably wouldn't say that, right?

Judas wouldn't say that. Gentle, meek, and humble of heart, but we get that from the music and the hymns and the Renaissance painters, you you know the call of Levi like yeah, hey Levi I can't bother to put my finger all the way out and point at you right so That's the image. That's what I do with the Gospels That's all I want is I just want to get a sense of the man right because he's my Savior. Mm-hmm, right? And he loves Cubans.

Sometimes, sometimes I will pick up the gospels and I'll think to myself, what you are now reading Matt is a lost gospel that was just found today and it's world breaking news. And it turns out it was written by the apostle, Andrew, whoever. And then I try to read it as if it's brand new. Does that make sense? Yeah. I have a Chesterton approach, right? I don't know. Go to your kingdom, you know, visit the country as if it's your first time, right? The Englishman who said, yeah, exactly. Yes, yes. You are the man who was Thursday. That's fine.

But thank you for saying that. I think we did. We desperately need to hear that. And I like to what advice would you have for someone who wants to get back into Bible reading or just wants to start reading the Gospels, but it's so afraid that what's going to happen is they're going to pick it up and be so bored. Yeah. And then just feel bad about feeling bored and people don't like feeling bad and so ashamed. So we stopped doing those things that make us feel like that. Yeah.

It's like exercising when you keep failing. Yeah. I just don't like that experience. So I'm not going to do that. I think that's how many people feel about the Bible. What advice do you have for people to get back into reading the gospel? So I will say this. It's different for me because I have a theology degree. I fell in love with my faith because of first apologetics, but then because of Scott Hahn's lectures. I mean, my parents used to buy his audio cassette tapes when I was a kid and I would listen to them. They would get an eight hour series

and I'd listen to it twice before the day would end. And so I come to it with some sort of knowledge kind of already there. So when I start to see these connections, I'm like, oh, because in the first century, blah, blah, blah, in mosaic auth, you know, blah, blah. So that's the difficulty for me because my heart beats quicker when I read these things. So I would say for a noob, right, is number one, you gotta be okay with looking ridiculous.

It's like jujitsu. Yes. Anytime you do something new that's meaningful, you're gonna look like a jackass. Yeah, right Me jogging. There's a reason why I jog when I do the jogging part at six o'clock in the morning before the sun rises I'm like so much things are jiggling and I don't want any of my neighbors being like, well, there he goes We got a new pothole on the street these are the things I tell myself But then this is a point of of anyone who wants to be virtuous or do something worth time worth your time

Is you have to be willing to look silly? Because you're a noob. You're a rookie. You're gonna be stupid. You're gonna be silly It's gonna be difficult and the difficulty might be the difficulty might actually be it's boring, right? That's a difficulty just think of boring as a difficulty. I like that. Okay, so here's the obstacle. Now I'm gonna go full stoic on you, right? The obstacle is the way, right?

Maybe it's boring because 500 things in your life are all competing for your attention and they're all fun, right? Every time you go to the bathroom, you're playing Angry Birds, right? Even pooping now is an exciting competitive sport. Like it's exciting, right? So you're like, okay, well now I'm going to get quiet

and I'm going to sit here with a 2000 year old text and a journal as a dude. And I'm going to write, right? Like as a dude, I do not, I've tried to journal. Everyone tells you journaling is great. I even tried to do one sentence journaling. Could not, could not do that. So be patient with yourself. So don't be afraid to look silly. Be patient with yourself. Right. And if you find,

well really it's, it's the attitude of like, come Holy spirit. These are your words. I need you to set them on fire. My heart. Um, there are too many people who have conversion experiences for me to negate this, myself included, but when they fell in love with Christ and received his love in return, uh, Scripture was that thing that fed them. It's not for everyone, right? Scripture is for everyone, but that experience is not for every convert. But it's like all of a sudden the Bible came alive, is for everyone, but that experience is not for every convert. But it's like, all of a sudden the Bible came alive, right? My buddy, Father Paul Koska, I remember, high school student, huge conversion on a retreat. And then maybe a year or two later, we heard someone

read, it was the second reading from Philippians, right? God did not deem equality with God as something to be grasped, rather He emptied Himself. When we got to Life Night, we were in Life Teen, we got to Life Night, he had that whole thing memorized. And he said, this is happening to me. I just, these words stick in my head and I can't get rid of them. Right? So, the Lord can work on this. These are anointed words though. Like, we all know the Bible is the inspired word of God. It's not just clever writing about God. And so, the most important thing, and this is the stoic thing that infuriates everyone, but show me one thing in life worth doing

that doesn't have this. If my desires are not in union with this thing, but I can acknowledge mentally that this thing is good for me, then I just have to shut up and do it. And eventually my desires will come along. The other kind of hack, I'm gonna be lame, is if you wanna make it more prayerful,

shorten the time, and by shorten I mean maybe 15 minutes at the least, say, how do these words, how do these deeds tell me about the love of the Father through Christ of me, for me, right? And then all of a sudden every time he's reproaching a Pharisee, you're like, okay, well, how does this show the love for me? Well, it shows the love for me because this Pharisee is distorting the truth or whatever it is, and you're like, oh, okay, how does this show the love for me? Well, it shows the love for me because this Pharisee is distorting the truth or whatever it is. And you're like, oh, okay, because he calls falsehood and he does that for me.

Right. So constantly going back to the text constantly. So you can get your image of Jesus. I love it. Yeah. I think it was Jose Maria Escrava who said something to the effect of let people say of you, here is a man who is familiar with the gospels. Like he said, that's what he wants people in Opus Dei to be thought

of. Man who know the gospels. How long have you been getting up at what time? Five, four one 30 every morning. Listen, brother, listen brother, wake up at four 30, take a picture of my watch and I know, uh, what were you going to say? What? Take a picture of your watch. Picture of my watch. That's what Jock gonna say what take a picture of your watch my watch that's what Jocko willing does former Navy SEAL and every morning if you follow his Instagram it's nothing but he doesn't hate it because he's a militant it's nothing but whatever I don't speak to you keep going you can make it comment later talk about it if you it's nothing around but his like 430 wake up times, right?

Like he sent it to a friend or something? No, he put it on Instagram. Like go wake up, get after it. You know, discipline equals freedom. I think he wakes up at four because he takes a picture of his watch at 430 with, and the caption always, always, aftermath with his workout.

What does that mean? Aftermath with his workout? Yeah, like, like he's like, takes a picture after he's worked out and he always just captions it after math. So I think he wakes up at four and works out and takes a picture of his watch. He calls it after math. Fair enough, fair enough. But the, so I've been, I'm a night person. Are you? My wife is a night person too. I'm not at all. A lot of new youth ministers get into the groove of like, well, you know, we have this event, a football game till 10,

like our lives get into the rhythm of it's more evenings than it is mornings. And so that was definitely my thing. Um, when I was living with Brian and Jonathan, other youth ministers, I was dating my now wife, she was a youth minister. Uh, we all were night owls, right? I was, my whole marriage never went to bed, very rarely went to bed with my wife. She had to take progesterone, Noxia out. And so she'd be going to bed at like eight. And I'm like, that ain't happening for me.

I got some YouTube to watch. But so one Lent, there was a Lent thing. And it just, it was like, okay, we'll try to wake up early for Lent. That'll be my penance. And that was a penance. And about two weeks into it, I got really pissed off one morning because there wasn't any coffee and I became a

coffee drinker at that time. Wasn't any coffee in the house. And I was wide awake and I was pissed because I realized I'm actually a morning person. I just never, I'm lazy. I just never wanted to wake up early. My whole life pushed me into the late at one o'clock. I get my second wind and blah, blah blah blah. So I started doing this and Honestly, I love it. I feel weird when I sleep in I feel like oh crap the day's gone But you still go to bed late. No, what when do you go to bed? Uh, Well 10 11. Yeah, that's not that's not like no. When do you go to bed?

I end up going to bed around 10 or 11 as well But it's really out of a sacrifice because my wife is a night owl. Yeah, you know and when I say night owl, but I mean she'd go to bed around that time as well. I find it really difficult to go to bed without Cammie, you know, like I like to I like chatting with her. Okay, I like that time laying in bed chatting and hanging out. You are both you're you're an introvert. Is she an introvert? Not at all. Not at all.

Shannon's an introvert and I'm an extrovert, but we are both, this is the way I armchair, psychologize us, we're both external processors. Like we love talking through things. I do too. My wife's like that. Yeah, and it's the best thing for, a lot of people are like,

you need to learn about spousal communication. We're like, we got it. We talk about everything all the time. The difference between my wife and I is I know what's going, I sense what's going on within me. The millisecond it happens, like emotions in my heart. Like what the hell was that? You know, fear. Oh, Oh, Oh, constantly. It's exhausting being me. My wife, in order for her to understand what's taking place in her heart, she needs to talk.

Yeah. Sometimes she'll be talking and then she'll start suddenly realize she's sad or she's excited. She doesn't know that she gets in go do a mode. You know, she gets stuff done and yeah, but we're both. I love to process things with her. Yeah. My thing, because I'm so ADHD and I drop the ball all the time on things. She's super organized. So one day I was teaching this class and 98 year old or 89 year old man goes, my God, is he a question? I was like, yeah, sure. And he goes,

is your wife very organized? And I go, oh yeah, man, my wife. Oh, I can tell you stories about my wife. My wife literally makes lists about lists she's going to make in the future. And he starts laughing or whatever. And I go, why do you ask? And he goes, cause I've sent you the same damn email three times and you just asked me for the fourth time. And I figured this guy would be dead. If it wasn't for some woman keeping them alive. And I was like, why don't you say that? Cause my wife and I have both terribly disorganized.

Oh, I know. Shattered with her. You'd assume my wife and shared it with her, you'd assume she's got everything. She's okay, she's got things together. She, neither of us do. What do you mean I know? Well, I know that you both are like that. Yeah, how do you, but how do you know that?

Well, number one, you've said it a million times where you talk about how you, you get like, what was the phrase? If she had married anyone else, she would be the free spirit, but because she's married to me. She has to be the nerd Fails at being the nerd. Yeah, and I see that with you too, and I think that's awesome, right? I think that's awesome and it takes all kinds right and again

This is a funny thing that you realize especially like with your family if you really care about your family You really care about this stuff is you you with your decisions whether it's implicit or explicit Reshape your life you mold your life to accommodate that stuff, right? Like you do, like you figure out, like for us it would be homeschool. My wife does the homeschooling, I'm the heavy, right? She sits there and she does- The heavy?

The heavy, the disciplinary, right? She goes through and she organizes, I mean man, she's got grades, she's got lists, she's got curricula out the wazoooo all mapped and planned. I would never do that I would never in a million years do that. But when I come in I Get lost in the subject with my kids all my kids hate Being with daddy as the teacher because it Shannon does the we're gonna hit the curriculum We're gonna do what it says and I'm like, you know What's interesting about this and then they'll be like stop dad stop dad or if they think like there's like a math problem

That one of my daughters was struggling with and so I went on Khan Academy set up an account I'm like you're gonna watch this and I said, you know what? No, no, no, this isn't enough We're gonna back it up three lessons and we're gonna watch the next three as well as the one lesson in the middle Like that's the stuff that I do. I I love getting lost in concept and dad to do that with your kids Yeah, they hate it, but I love it. Yeah, you know, it's all about me at the end of the day I want to use this thing about your wife that made me realize my wife's definitely more organized than me Definitely, but that's not saying much. Does she do the doom piles like you do. Do you do doom piles? What is it? It's an ADHD term where you like your way of organizing is stacking things

vertically, right? Like you got like eight books over here stacked up high. You got a bunch of paper, you know, roughly what's in those papers in those stacks. Well, what's the alternative? The alternative is, is, is organized. I'm not joking. My wife has, I'm not joking. Like what would it be like? Those pull out drawers with the.

My wife was so excited to get an Ikea drawer that has a filing cabinet. You go to my file. At St. Anthony's, I was the director. My filing cabinet. You might be saying this. The metal filing cabinet with a key. You open mine up, it's stuff stacked on top of it.

So it's funny you say that. Yeah, you call them doom piles. Doom piles. Yeah. And it's funny because at St. Anthony's they had this thing until you interrupted me. Uh, just kidding. But they had this, uh, I had this wonderful desk, wonderful furniture. I'm a director. I have 13 people reporting to me. I have employees, um, had, and, uh, I had nothing in my, in my filing cabinet drawer. I like crap that I just threw in there. I had all the like days off things that the director had to sign. I had all those stacked and there was like,

here's a thing on how to use Microsoft office. And I was like, I guess I'll put that here. I have such respect for people like that. I can't. So when I'm, when I started working at Catholic answers, Jason Everett was still working at Catholic answers,, but he had a brain who Jason unreal unreal I'm about to give you an example of that. He just moved to Arizona. I think or no Denver and so I move into his office He actually bought me that Photo of Mary McKillip and he put it on the wall for me as a gift Which was so kind of him, but he had a big filing cabinet, and I opened it up and it's all alphabetized,

things like abortion, contraception, all of these topics that he would talk about, and photocopied articles from magazines and newspapers, all systematized. He's terrific. Let me tell you a funny story about Jason Everett. Do it. Okay, so I used to crap on him, right? Not because I thought anything he ever said was bad or I disagree that I'm like,

he's a can speaker, blah, blah, blah. One day I was talking to someone and I was like, you know, I just, I try to speak from the, you know, extemporaneously. And yeah, I do my research and I map out my talks, but I just don't want to give a can talk like, like someone like Jason Everett. And I said that to Sarah Swofford and she's like, you do know that we are like best friends with the Everett family. And I was like, Oh, what? No, what I was saying. And I was like backpedaling as fast possible, but I have been following him. I've always loved him. And he came to my,

but I used to, I have an allergy against can talks, always have. But when you realize that his talks, every one of them is surgically precise. Like that's a level of giftedness I will never have. And the fact that if you, that drawer that you're describing, you see it when you actually listen to the Q&As that people have for him, you realize that he has a comprehensive knowledge.

And I think it was when he was on your show, or John DeRosa's Classical Theism podcast, which is awesome. Uh, he was talking about the transgenderism and he was talking about, well, so I started reading these books and then I kind of got an understanding that I read 20 more and now I felt like, and you're just sitting there like, Oh, you probably have notes where it's system. I like the effort he put into his one chastity talk, took way more effort than the 800 extemporaneous talks I've given. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like he is.

And that's the thing that I think people like me who are like, ah, skipping through the woods, you know, I speak from the heart, you know, that's the thing that it's like, no, he speaks from the heart, a heart that is cultivated, a heart that is trained, right? This is a, this is a well-trained man. But, um, how, I mean, like as you get older too, I think I'm starting to realize that there are certain things about my personality that I just have to come to peace with. Do you know?

Maybe in my twenties, I may have been under the illusion that I could be like Trent Horn or Jason Everett. And you try and, and sometimes I don't know if it is because of a lack of willpower or if it is, it's because you've been made differently and you've got to come to kind of come to peace with who you are and just be that as well as you can. What do you think about that? Yeah. You know, Dr.

No longer being challenged by people like that. Right. You know, Dr. Abigail Favoli, right? Love her. She's incredible. She really is. She is. Yeah. Everythingali, right? Love her. She's incredible. She really is. She is, yeah. Everything she writes, a genesis of gender, she has this wonderful chapter where she talks about a bunch of women who were segregated and swimming in the Dead Sea or swimming in the Sea of Galilee because it was an Orthodox Jewish thing,

and it's like, no, women and children are over here, men are over there. And at first she said a lot of her college students were ticked off, but then after a while they were like, actually, we don't need to care about men looking at our bodies and thinking about like, whatever, we could just be. And she had this line where she was talking about,

maybe it was like the YMCA, I think it was on the same chapter, about you see the old woman who's trying to keep her body together and everything's all saggy and whatever, and these young women who come in and they're doing three classes a day. And she said, you know, I'm paraphrasing, of course, but like, life, a big project of our lives is coming to grips and acceptance with our bodies, with ourselves.

And that's very true. Like, I read these people and I want to be disciplined like that guy is disciplined. And I want to be smart like that guy is smart. And I want to have knowledge of scripture like that guy has knowledge. And I want my memory, that guy is smart. And I wanna have knowledge of scripture like that guy has knowledge. And I want my memory, I don't know if you feel this way, but my buddy Brian has this recall ability that just shocks me. Scott Hahn is like that, he's a human bibliography. I remember one time he was going to a talk at Franciscan, I was a student, I was attending, and I go, hey, do you have any books that I could read that contradict the documentary

theory? Do you know what that is, the documentary theory? The JEDP, the different authors of Jenna Benetuc. And he's like, well, yes, there is the blah, blah, blah from blah, blah. That was a little Regis Martin. But he goes through these things. And I mean, he's naming publishers and dates. And I remember writing it down,

and I kind of just stopped writing, and I was like, this is a mind that is no way to perform like mine, but his mind is nothing like mine, which he's probably benefited from. But I wonder who needs my kind of mind, who needs your mind. And, uh, Casey Neistat is a big YouTuber. He had this whole ADHD thing where he talked about it's, it's not really, don't think of it just as a deficit, because it can be a superpower. It can actually benefit, right?

It can actually be a bonus, and we can bring it into different, it leads us into different modes of approaching the world. And no one will ever think the way Matt Fradd does, right? Your experience with, number one, Australia, and your conversion story, and World Youth Day, and all that, coming to America, which is also an Eddie Murphy movie Doing net and Ireland. Yeah, you know, you know when you left the United States and I took over your apartment with my buddy

You thought it was a callback it was just that I remembered All right. So this is great. I'm trying to remember, when's the first time we met? First time we met, you were, I don't know if you were engaged, you were at a parish as a youth minister. And I think it was Annie Hickman had invited a handful of us because we're all in the same household, that Franciscan household is AMDG,

and invited us down and we like met you. And I've known Cameron, a lot of the St. Thomas Moore families Down in Houston in Houston. There's this there's a handful of churches that are just legendary in the life team world in the Franciscan world And St. Anthony's mild parish was and St. Thomas Moore was the the original gangster. So I think I met you there I think my first memory of you is Trying to think of that shopping mall. You were sitting outside with a couple of guys and me and Cameron came and spoke to you cause we were moving to Ireland and we desperately needed

somebody to take over our apartment. So we didn't have to. Yeah. Jonathan and Brian. Yeah. Yeah. But no, we had known each other before that. We weren't like we had known of each other. Let me put that. All right. Yeah. Yeah. That was fun. That's amazing. This is amazing. I love this. See, this part of the conversation is for nobody else. But nobody else cares. But yeah, that's great. You took over our apartment. Yeah. So you had this shady apartment. It was very shady. The best part was the apartment complex right next door had a pick.

It's logo was a mafia looking guy with a baseball bat. No. Yes. It was a guy where it was like a silhouette of a dude that looked like he walked out of a reservoir dogs and he had a baseball bat. It was like the blah, blah, blah apartments. Like that logo has nothing to do with that name. I think it's just to intimidate the residents.

But yeah, we're in a Jewish part of Houston. That's right. In a Hispanic part of the Jewish part of Houston. And the best part about your apartment, do you remember what the best part was? Oh, can you give me a hint? Air conditioning. That's the hint.

I don't, I don't know. You did not pay for utilities. It was included in the rent. So when I found that out, so you were leaving and you needed someone to come on board. So I came on board. I saw, so there's like a week where I technically lived with you, at least on paper, and then you moved off off the lease. And then my buddy's moved on stuff. Like you left 90% of your, of your life. Did you want that? No,? Like our couches? You left 90% of your, of your life. Did you want that?

No. I'll tell you what I didn't want. All your newlywed presents. Like all the stuff you got as gifts for wedding. I was like, why do they have curved cups? I just want a regular cup. But I walked up to that thermostat. I'll never forget.

It was the greatest day of my life. Walked up to that thermostat and I turned it all the way to the coldest setting. And then I turned the thing all the way to the hottest and it never turned off. Took my pants off and laid on the couch. Houston, man, you need it. We froze the coils so many times that summer. I remember, you remember Courtney Bada and Jeremy? Yes, and Jeremy. We were very good friends with them. Oh my gosh, I love them so much. They came over to our house one night and we hung out

till about four in the morning, speaking about when you're in your twenties, you know, just hanging out, playing board games. And my wife was bragging about how I make really good coffee. So I'm like, I'll make us one. You know, so I made us go in. This is when frothing milk was like a new thing. Like now everyone can run with whatever machine they have. But back then it took some work.

So I made this beautiful coffee with froth milk and then I put what I thought was cinnamon over the top. Turned out it was chili powder. The literal worst thing that I didn't I didn't know that. So I had given it to her and she had drunk it and just was trying to

be nice until she was like, I'm so sorry. I think maybe this is a chili powder. So that was good. Oh, that's awesome. Froth milk is a game changer. Yeah. So I never I'm so sorry. I think maybe this is a chili powder. So that was good. Oh, that's awesome Froth milk is a game changer. Yeah, so I never I never liked coffee. My dad was a coffee drinker I never liked the smell never liked any of it. My wife loves coffee one day She said to say, you know real quick Yeah, the guy who's gonna pull who has to timestamp this video is gonna hate us

No, we just went from newlywed apartment, thermostat, chili coffee to froth coffee. Okay, let's all play. Game changer. Hold, cross your fingers so you remember what it is. That's the trick. Paul, for this segment, just title it, Paul hates Matt in a coma.

For this like five minutes. Love you Paul. But no, froth coffee potentially saved a soul. Saved a soul. So I never liked coffee. My wife loves coffee. She said to me one morning, this is what started my early morning wake up.

She said, you know, I just always imagined us waking up and having a cup of coffee together and talking about our day before you went off to work. You're like, what's wrong with me with my Xevia? Shhh. Yeah. So many things. So no, so I was like, okay, I will.

It was like 50% creamer at that time. Well, about a year ago, my wife bought a frother and I thought this is the most frou-frou. I don't need this, I'm a man. Turns out I needed it. Turns out I needed it desperately. So I go, so now I only have froth milk in my coffee. It's a little awesome.

But I'm at an event in Peoria, wonderful church, wonderful people. I'm doing a parish mission and I'm at this hotel and I walk up to this lady and I said, how long is this open? She said, oh, a few more minutes. I said, I need a coffee. I need to sit down and go through this stuff.

I just want a tall coffee. I go, do you by any chance froth the milk? And she looked at me and she's staring at the screen. She goes, I don't even see it on here. I don't know. And a guy hears me and he goes, no, no, no, I got, I'll froth the milk for you. So he froths the milk, pours it in my coffee. I'm drinking it, having a good time chit chatting with them very lightly. I leave, I come back later that afternoon. Guy runs up to me and he goes, Hey, do you want me to open up the store for you? And I was like, what? He said, yeah, you want me to open up the store for you? And I was like what he said yeah, you want me to open up the store for you and I was like, uh, I mean

I guess I'll have a coffee. He goes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't worry. We all learned how to froth coffee for you I'm like what he goes. Yeah, man. You're just You're just such a good guest that we're all that we all learned how to froth coffee and I'm sitting there and It was the most surreal experience in my life. And he's like, so he goes, he makes me this large coffee, he sets it down, froths it perfectly, right? And, and I'm just trying to figure out the narrative

of what's going on. I have no clue. I'm about to go to the evening session. I'm there, the woman shows up from the morning and she's telling me that her mother has cancer. She had to move her mother into a hotel room so she could take care of her around the clock and all this stuff, even while she's on shift. One of the most heartrending

stories. And so I was like, okay, well, thank you so much. So I go and I get the, the, the parish to pray for this woman and her mother. And I was like, before we begin, I had the craziest, then I show up that night and the night shift is like, do you want a coffee? We can froth over like over the top. And I'm like, what am I being pranked? What is it? It felt so surreal. It felt like I was being, like there's a camera somewhere when I was leaving in the morning, I had to leave at 5am, you know, go to the airport and the, the guy at the counter was like, Hey, we're going to miss you. Mr. Gormley.

Have a good day. I, Tuesday, I have no idea what I said or did. My interactions were pretty minimal. There was one part that kind of sucked and I was nice to the guy because he obviously needed a break and That was it But the whole time all I could think of was I have prayed for this parish in Peoria Heights More than any other parish mission and the men that invited me I was at that man is you group They invited me out they were praying a lot and there was this weird like when I got to the hotel I felt like there was just a blanket of peace I had I did nothing

to earn their respect to that level but it was weird like it was all characterized by frothed milk as like a sign of their Thanksgiving to me and I'm like I mean I'll take it because I can't drink coffee regardless. But what is happening? This is how I know, things like that, that's like, God just gives you a little confirmation. Like, you know, I'm here, the spirit's moving, let's go. Isn't that weird?

That's weird. That is very weird, it's cool though. I didn't have a conversation with someone where I'm like, share your heart. Yeah. There was none of that. Yeah. It's amazing how some, I don't know about you,

but sometimes I'm in a good mood and I want to pay like I actually say hi. Yeah. And I actually see the person that I mean it. Yeah. And that really does mean the world. Yeah. But when I'm like looking down at the floor and I'm just kind of irritated and then I wonder why everybody's so distant. Why don't people like me? So is that when you liked coffee with when you realized you liked coffee? Yeah, this is just like four months ago. This whole froth milk thing. The story with the people? Yeah. Yeah. It was when I decided to leave, I don't know,

it was probably a topic you want to talk about, but it was when I decided to leave my church job. I was discerning, you know, 17 years I've been in parish ministry done all the traveling speaking stuff as a side thing. Yeah, and I was discerning leaving and when I was there with the within Peoria Heights Peoria area It's guys like I think you need to leave if you're thinking about leaving I think you need to leave and because I think the church wider needs your Needs your message when I'm like, okay. Yeah, maybe. And who said this? This is the guy, the good old George that brought me out from the parish. That man is you group, all this stuff. I had done some videos for that man as you in 2021 when the plague hit.

That's funny. Dr. Scott Han, Dr. Mark Miravale, Dr. John Berg's ma and a fat homeless guy. We found a walking with a rucksack one day on Amazon. No. And so I can, power of ADHD. No. Uh, and so we just said, I did these talks. They asked me back. They asked me back. So I've done it three years in a row and these guys were like, we love your talks. Will you come and do a parish mission? I was like, sure. Okay, whatever. And he, I mean like I was happy to do it. No. And so it was just this, it was just a weird anointed thing. So I'm just trying to discern the date of when to leave and then like, do you understand

what Peoria is known for? I was like, uh, no. It's like Fulton Sheen. I was like, yeah, for off the milk PBR and Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen. I went to his high school. I spoke at his old high school. Is that, yeah. Have you been there? No, I went to, yes. The, the, the named after the Cardinal. Yeah. Show me his photos to prove to me they weren't lying. Look, look, he's playing basketball. He dumped on that fool. Uh, no. So I went there and his birthday was May 8th and I was like,

I'm going to quit in May 8th. Huh? Yeah. Cause I love Sheen. I love Archbishop Fulton Sheen. He was a big part of my life. And how long from that time until May 8th? It was end of March, mid March. And I was like, Nope, this is when I'm going to do it. Okay. And, uh, you, uh, your assistant had emailed me around this time. Yeah. To do this. Oh, good. And then I just had like things just line up magically line up. And I was like, okay,

I can see it being funny you kind of walking into your boss's office to give two weeks notice that would end on May 8th. He'd be like, you know what? I'd like you just to leave now. I can't volunteer, but I can. I have, I have obligations to Fulton. I mean you were working at as adult faith formation at, was it San Antonio Padua or how many years? So I did that particular job for seven years. Okay. Yeah. So I went to Franciscan,

St. Anthony's was my home parish in high school in the Woodlands. And then I went to Franciscan did undergrad and three and a half started grad. And just to be, well, no, my wife was a youth minister there at one point, wasn't she? Yeah. She was at St. Simon Simon and Jude she was over at st. Anthony's a ton Barb and stuff my youth minister and it was just amazing where I finished grad school I went I did youth ministry there for three and a half years and then I did a bunch of stuff But I was done with the youth ministry and she called me up and she's like would you do a dole fay formation? Yes, I need to get out of this right

So youth ministry is awesome. I love formation? Yes, I need to get out of this, right? So youth ministry is awesome. I love youth ministry, but I needed to get out. I needed to have conversations where you don't have to say dude every like 37 seconds. So I go and I do, dude, that's how old I am. And, uh. Did you say dude? People say dude, your generation.

Not really, I say bruh a lot. Bruh, bruh, B-R-U-H, bruh. What's that, bruh? I picked up theuh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh bruh br So was it a difficult thing? Did you and your wife to kind of dessert? Did you bring this up to her and say, I think in a quitten and did you kind of have to pray about the future? St. Anthony's pays you well. Okay. And I was stepping into, please sir, please sir, please hire me. Right. So it was a big shift. And so before I got joined up with that man is you, the conversation with my wife was like, I feel like I need to do this. And she said, okay, end of August at the earliest. And then one day she came home from a retreat and she said,

I think May 1st that was her and she's the worry war when it comes to money and finances. I'm the anxiety prone sociopath whenever money hits the wall kind of thing, you know, but before she's like the, I mean, she's a planner. She sees the future, I only see the present. And she was like, no, I think May 1st. So then I went. May 8th? No, May 1st.

No, May 1st. You'll be disobedient to your wife. Who do you love more, Sheen or me? And I was like, Sheen doesn't look that hot in a dress. Turns out he does, in a cape. But no, she, she doesn't look that hot in a dress. Turns out he does, in a cape. But no, she, she, it's fine, it's fine. It's a good thing you'd turn up to drink that alcohol. By now, God love you.

Now, so, that gave me the freedom to start thinking about when was I gonna walk away? When was I gonna change? When was the new thing gonna happen? And that also was a swift kick in the butt to, okay, I need to line up the next thing. I already had the conferences lined up. I had everything basically until December,

more or less, lined up that financially we'd be okay. But it was like, in my heart, this is my thing, and this is what we've talked about before, but I hate being just a speaker. And Eni was the one that said this to me years ago, because he's like, what do you want to do ultimately? And I was like, oh, I want to be like Scott Hahn without all the studying and degrees.

And he said, yeah, it's nice being a speaker. Right, you give the three talks that you're really good at, everyone shakes their hand at the bottom of the stage, people are crying, it's so good, it's so great, you get on a plane, you fly out. He said, but you're not discipling any of those people. You're not there after the conference with their youth ministers and all that stuff.

He's like, you're not. And it's great, it's very affirming, but the real work is what happens after or before. And I really took that to heart because I do believe, like the lives that I've seen change the most are the lives I've poured into individually the most. So then the question becomes, what do I do? If I do feel cold, like I can't step away from telling you, I don't like meetings, right? Like that's not why I'm leaving parish life.

It's I have to step into something that I know the Lord is going to keep that discipleship momentum going and Paradisius day, which is like the umbrella organization for that man is you. felt called to that man is you which is national international men's ministry English and Spanish good stuff but I felt called to like to do what I do on the side for them and So, you know basically parish permissions men's conference and I was already doing a bunch of this stuff and they're like the guys in Peoria They're all like actually we're gonna watch your video next week and all this stuff so it's there was like a lot of synergies there if I could use that douche speak. And, and so I was like, I really do think this is the next step because I'm still doing ministry.

And then the thing that really helped me was I started going to this ordinary parish because I just need a break. Like I would tell. We got to get to that. That's going to be a big thing. So don't, don't just give us the gold yet. I want to get into that. All right. Fair enough.

Fair enough. Fair enough. But there was this sense of, I need breathing room from getting in arguments with clergy, getting in arguments with lay leaders, getting in arguments with myself and then going to mass on Sunday, it became hard to detach from all those conversations and stuff. And so going to a church where no one knew me or few people knew me was just like, I got to go to mass. Cause I would have people that would interrupt me right after I'd received Holy communion. And they'd be like, Hey, real quick, I know you're praying. I'm sorry. Do you need that form today? Oh, all the time. All the, Hey Mike, real quick, I know you're with your family, but,

and they would state the very reason why they should shut up. They would lead with it. And I'm like, no, go to that first thing. Um, like there's no more bad, the true story, no more toilet paper in the women's restroom. And I'm like, no, go to that first thing. Um, like there's no more bad, the true story, no more toilet paper in the women's restroom. And I was like, I don't know where additional toilet paper for the women's restroom is. Uh, I can text this and then I'm like texting facilities and they're super responsive and stuff, but I just felt like, why am I doing that? Yeah. So then you go to a different church, any church, right? And you're like, no one cares about you. No one's asking you, even if people know you,

they're not getting their liability form turned in on time, you know. So that enabled me to be like, oh, there's this element where I'm doing ministry here at this other parish, and I'm doing ministry for this, I had permission, like that's what my brain took, my heart really, to leave full-time parish ministry. And I'm terrified, but it's awesome.

That man is you.com. Yeah, paradisiusday. Links in the description. .org, links in the description. That was a bad choice. Whenever you put Latin in a URL. Oh yeah, it's a paradisius, wait what? How do I spell? D-A-Y, no, day he, day he.

Yeah, no, they're great. That man is you, just type in that man is you and you'll get it. But there's a thing called Google, it'll find it. So is your job now kind of itinerant preaching? Yeah, mission evangelists. So how could people book you to speak at their parish? I'm so happy you asked.

All you gotta do is go to the website and email someone. Right. So I, I mean Michael.Gormley at Paradisysday.org. Could you find that? Please? He's going to put it in the show notes. Is it the every man is you website? Every man is you you're combining my podcast. No, that man is you. I'm wearing every man is you. is you? Schizophrenic. And you are everybody. And that one and that one and that one.

But no, what's your specific URL? Michael dot. My email is Michael dot Gormley. Do you want to do that? Okay, here we go. At Paradisius Day. Yeah. No, no, no. I want people to email me. Because the whole idea, you go to the website, you'll figure it out. But the whole idea is there's

so much of couples, like they're focused on healing families and marriages. And a big component of that, that kind of accidentally, providentially, fell into the founder, C. Bowman's lap, was working in men's groups. There was a Presbyterian church, had 600 men coming every week, and like 200 of them were Catholics,

and they're like, there's just nothing for us. So he went to St. Cecilia's Great Parish and said, hey, I wanna do this men's ministry. They're like, there's just nothing for us. So he went to St. Cecilia's Great Parish and said, hey, we're gonna, I wanna do this men's ministry. They're like, ah, a handful of people are gonna come and a hundred and something men show up. And he realized, so I started watching the videos. So I originally belonged when I was a youth minister in 2005 or six or seven, whenever it was,

I went through it and I'm like, I'm unmarried, I don't have kids, this isn't for me. And I bailed. And when they hired me, I started watching the videos and I'm sitting there in light of what's his name, Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson's commerce, all these things, the Manosphere, if you're aware of the Manosphere, Lila Rose, you talked about that. This is the antidote to all the BS for men.

Like he doesn't sit there and be like, well, men are like this and women are like that. He's just like, this is what it means. This is what, this is what leadership looks like. These are the four areas of leadership, you know, personal morality and military leadership, political leadership and building for the future and economic leadership and all this stuff. And at the center of it all is sacrifice. And he just lays it out in a way that's not like, well, what about women? What about men? What percentage are women allowed to? He's

like, don't matter. None of that bothers anything. He's talking to men and he's like, this is what you need to do. This is who we are, this is what Christ called us to be. Right? And the amazing thing is, part of their core views were born out over the failures of men in the Bible, right? So that man is you, Nathan, the prophet Nathan to David after the whole Bathsheba thing, you know,

thou art the man, right? And it's like these failures, these profound failures. Like these profound failures from Adam to King David and Solomon, all the rest, where they fail is where Christ succeeds. And it's like, okay, that's the man you're called to be, right? You're not called to be Andrew Tate at all. You're not called to be all of these, like, even if you love them, they're still, they're still even at their very best, they're a slice of who Christ is. Fallen men. Yeah.

Yeah. And so this is the, the, the tender heart of our savior, right? Is I think what that man is you executes so well. And when I'm sitting there and I'm on my standing desk, on my walking treadmill, powering through videos in double speed. I pause my walking treadmill at my standing desk as trendy as I can be. And I just, I'm like, I'm haunted by what he just said. I'm haunted by how he dialed in, like,

the foundation for the future. Every man is geared towards this foundation for the future, for their wives, for their kids, for community. It's not individualistic, right? It's always oriented towards, how can I be the best for others? How can I be a man for others? And you lay these things out in the way that Steve Bowman does

and the whole organization does, they just embody it. And here's the funny thing. Now, for anyone who's ever worked at a parish, you know this, you worked at a parish, right? Insert spiked eyebrows here. There are people who are on the parish because they're Catholic and they love being Catholic and they like the parish and whatever,

but they're not devoted to the mission. Right, they'd be surprised that their parish even had a mission. Had a mission, right, no, we're Catholics, we do the Catholic thing. We have some classes, we have some sacraments, we have some masses, we have some other stuff. When I walked into my first meeting, right,

and this is not to make my bosses happy, right, when I walked into that first meeting and they do this morning prayer and check-in and all this stuff, it's like, here's an entire group of people who not only are good Catholics, they are devout, clearly intentional Roman Catholics. And they're devoted singularly to the mission. And that was like, I keep coming back that I'm like, oh, this is what

gets me going in the morning. Like, I love this. I'm so glad to hear that. My friend Derek just took a job with Exodus 90 and he said the same thing. So like, yeah, he started working for him and he said, they're the real deal. Like, isn't that wonderful to be pleasantly shocked at their, at their fidelity. These are Catholics who are Catholic. They're praying. They're like, now asking how we can pray for you. They, they take cold showers to be in solidarity with everyone doing Exodus 90 right now.

Yeah. I love it. I love it. And I love things are happening, huh? And they have like an apostolate, the thing that's so powerful and like attractive about an apostle is they're not a parish in, in these ways of like, they're devoted to a mission. The mission is clear. It's singular. This is what we do. Right. And this is what we do. And if you like this or benefited from this, get on board and let's do this. Right. And I love the fact that it just permeates like every person that I have,

even in their complaining, they're complaining for the glory of God. Like we should be doing more of this and we got to do more of this. If only we could hire this type of thing. And I'm like, this is exciting. Like I've never been a part of it. So I love what you said there too, about being focused on here's what you do. Don't worry about, you know, it's kind of like a sibling who's like, well, why did she get to do that? Or what did I like that? It's kind of like a sibling who's like, well, why did she get to do that? Or what did I like that?

I've thought lately about the masculine genius. Some summing it up as simply like strength on behalf of others. Like, I think that's that's just men at their best. A man where their strength is offered for others, their family, their community, their whoever their friends. This is do you watch a lot of the Manosphere type red pill matrix? In fact, the red pill is a new thing for me. I heard about it only when Lila was on the show.

Yeah, it's interesting. I hate 90% of it. This is the part of my recent Catching Foxes episode that I was like, oh, I didn't do a good enough job explaining the whole, but like, I can't stand so much of it, but at the same time, it's like a reaction to feminism. It's a reaction to man-hating hating feminism because there is different types of feminism um camilla paglia in her con probably butchering her last name but in her conversation with jordan peterson had this great thing when she's like i can't stand feminism that hates men she's like when the

world falls apart and it's going to soon the first thing all these feminists are going to do is try to find the strongest man they can find. So for obviously true. If a street is safe, it's because of men. If a town is safe, it's because of men. If a nation is state is safe, it's the men. And you, and you think about this from the perspective of, and I don't think it's hard to put, okay, let me, let me try to flush it out. And I don't think it's hard to put, okay, let me, let me try to flush it out. I don't think women today realize the extent to which the anti

man narrative is in our children's faces often. And so if, if you're like a good normal Catholic or not even a Catholic, we like a normal human centrist and you don't, you're not particularly political, but you see this and you're like a good normal Catholic, or not even a Catholic, we're like a normal human, a centrist, and you're not particularly political, but you see this, and you're a woman, you're like, I'm a feminist, of course. I think women should be able to work and wear pants

and pay their bills. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about people who think that men are literally evil, and they're weaving that content into curriculum to the point where boys hate the fact that they're men. Right? To the point where secular psychologists are writing books like The War Against Boys and Raising Men

and all these different things because they realize that there's this anti-man narrative. And so the question that becomes what that is essentially masculine needs to be defended. Right? And you know, when I was talking about the, the Andrew Tate stuff, he's like, Mr, like he's over correcting, right? And he's very sexual and he's very pornographic,

but there's this line from Cardinal Ratzinger years ago and I cannot find the speech, but Dr. Hahn referenced it. He's on Scotty. Yeah. We'll try to find it. But he said the crisis of today is a crisis of fatherhood or is an attack on fatherhood. And he goes through this list of like contraception is a denial of fatherhood, homosexuality is, you know, and he goes through all of these things that are in vogue and popular in the night, I believe it was in the nineties. And I think about that's the antidote to all the matrix red pill menosphere stuff is they want to be men who have, you know, strong bodies, strong minds,

stoic philosophers, but they don't want to be dads. Matt Walsh talked about when he was celebrating the birth of his last kid, he's like, and not to be outdone by the left is the alt-right menosphere who called my child an F-trophy. Like that's how they demean children, right? And they demean marriage and all this stuff. And it's like, no, this fatherhood fatherhood is the per as, as Matt, as manhood is the perfection of boyhood fatherhood is the perfection of masculinity, right? So to be a boy means to have all these potencies, right? To be a man is to actualize them. I'm mature to be masculine is fully realized and perfected in fatherhood, whether it's spiritual or physical, right?

Because all of those things that I love about, you know, about my life and all these things, I have to subordinate them to my wife and my kids. And I have to love it. And that's the thing that they don't get because it's all about me going to the gym and me Get my time in and not simping for the for the women and you know, not not that's good Not looking at pornography not paying, you know

$80,000 to only fans girls and all these like craziness But at the same time there's a denial of their fatherhood and I don't know about you but like for me I Would be a far worse man without my kids You know, I love my wife Obviously, I love my wife. I got it. Oh, he's got it. Let's hear it From a March 2000 speech in Paul Palermo, Italy March 2000 in Palermo, Italy You know a Palermo Italy is famous for founding of Lacosa Nostra the predecessor of the mafia go on Italy is famous for founding of Lacosa Nostra the predecessor of the mafia go on

The crisis fatherhood we are experiencing today is an element perhaps the most important element Threatening man is humanity. Oh, just think about that say that one more time. I think I butchered it the first time so that's good You had it with a German accent. It's understandable. It's rassing is the crisis of I'm not sorry. That was hilarious. Well done. You know it. I know it. It was brilliant.

The crisis of fatherhood we are experiencing today is an element, perhaps the most important element threatening man in his humanity. Crisis of fatherhood. The crisis of fatherhood is the most important element threatening man in his humanity. I mean, when my... Okay, so my whole life I thought I was called to be a priest.

My mom told me I had priest hands when I was a kid. I had priest hands. I told Father Mike Schmitz that and he goes, what the heck does that even mean? And I go, I think it means I've never done an honest day's work in my life. He got so pissed off. He's so jacked. He got so... Oh man, man. He did not get pissed off.

Oh, he did, because he's like, what does that even mean, priest hands? And I was like, I work every day, and I was like, I think you only work on Sunday. But. He's so jacked, dude. But in my head, I was called to be a priest. So I never, I never imagined myself as a husband.

Never even remote, I mean, like, imagine girls, but I never imagined remotely being a dad. Even when I was married and my wife was pregnant, like I did all the things with the belly and the cooing and I bought a thing to try to listen to the heartbeat from Walmart didn't work, did all of those things. And I loved the idea, but holding, so my wife when she went into labor with Katerian,

labor for days, only at Saturday evening, vigil mass, and she had a contraction, and she stood up for Holy communion, and there was a grandmother behind her, and she goes, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. And it's like, she's fine, she's fine, this has been going for a day and a half. Just texting Luke and drove by the exit to the hospital.

Whoopsie. But Kateri- No, that's not true, is it? 100% fact, 100% fact. Your first child? Yeah. Kateri. My, my, what were you texting about? What's that one day, one day, no, I was texting that we're on the way to the hospital. I'm so excited. But holding Kateri. So we almost like, uh, every time my wife had a contraction, her heart would stop beating and all these things. And the doctor's like, now I know you want to have a natural and Shannon goes

I don't care get this child out of me if it's gonna save her life He's like, oh, let's go now and then they forgot about me and though it's I'm like suiting up with all the booties and hair And that's just alone They shut the lights off there's that one flickering like a zombie movie Guys, you've got a hair net Do you want me to start serving the french fries now? You've got a hair net? Do you want me to start serving the french fries now? And a beard net?

And a beard net. But no, my wife goes, so I walk in, right? You walk in, if you've never seen what a C-section is, they're cruciform and there's a sheet that they pin up that goes right underneath their neck. I remember that, man. Yeah. Wow. And she is there and she just looks at me and all the things that you go to all the classes the prenatal class things

It's like ain't none of that ain't none of that right we rub their back and feed them ice chips and tell them They're so brave, right? Like I'm like, well, I can't feed you anything and I just held her head like this and I was like we're gonna get through this We're gonna get through this. So then good man the baby like, we're going to get through this. We're going to get through this. So then good man, the baby Kateri comes out, she's delivered and I had it, I had it recorded and he got 808, 808 PM. It's a girl. And I'll never forget the doctor saying that and my daughter crying and my wife going, Oh, and then I get to hold her. And you know, as a youth,

as a teen in, in, in youth ministry, you always hear those speakers who talk about their kids all the time. And I remember that was one thing like, well, they were talking about their kids. The moment I held her, all they ever did was talk about my kids. I love my kid. Like, I remember just holding her and being like, I got to learn so much about life right now. Like, I don't know what a school board is. I don't know what any of this crap is.

Everything Janet Smith says in her famous contraception, why not talk? Like that was racing through my head. Like I need to do all this stuff because this kid is now mine and I am going to screw this up big time. And I've never loved. Do you remember being shocked that the hospital at some point went, all right, there you go. You can you can go now. What really? You're not going to trust me with this thing.

Is there like a manual? It was crazy. And you walk out of there, my wife hates hospitals, she can't wait to get out. So we get out of there, we go out and I have to raise this kid. The biochemical oxytocin, blah, blah, blah, like all that stuff is so real.

Cause when I looked at her, everything was different. Everything was different. To be a man, to understand the principles of personal finance and Dave Ramsey and get out of debt and do all this stuff. To be a husband, learning how to give yourself, accommodate someone else in your life, in your space, using your stuff,

being in your bathroom when you just want to poop and read a book, right? Like all of these things that are so important to dudes being dudes, all of that you suborn to this child. And then I had another one. And then I had another one. And then I had another one. And you realize, and Pope John Paul talks about about this like when you commit yourself in love you hem yourself

And you give in the name of your freedom you give up freedom for this one person But then through that love first of marriage then of kids your world gets larger your world your horizon is infinitely expanded So Kateri my oldest is not is not Cecilia, is not Noah, is not Thomas. And the fact that I have these four kids who are not each other, but are the fruit of my loins and my wife's like you, they all, and it's funny, it's like either or like every other one is like, well, this is Shannon's side of the family. This is my side of the family. It's perfect. It's, I cannot imagine life any other way.

I mean, you can feel this, like, oh, which kid am I gonna get rid of in order to have a better life and a more retirement and a fancier vacation and another hat? Like, Justin has this, he's like, oh, you can't afford more hats. Which kid's head are you gonna lop off? I just desperately, these kids have changed me fundamentally

and even in their pain that they caused me, right? Like, you know, you got to deal with issues, whatever those issues might be in dealing with them. I have to become better in order to serve them more. Right? Like, so, you know, so-and-so kid who's struggling with X, I now have to find out all about X in order to help my kids struggle better with it. You know? Like, yeah, I don't know. I talk a lot. I'm sorry. No, it's, it's, it's spot on. I mean, I know for me,

the times that I've really screwed up as a dad, you know, like I've lost my patience. I've yelled, I've said poisonous things to my kids in a fit of rage. Not frequently, but you know, the times that you do that and you just feel such like shame of how you've screwed this thing up and then having to apologize and grow in pain and having other people see the worst things about you. You know, the people that you love so much.

It's like that with your wife, right? You marry this woman, you put on your best front and then you get married and you can't keep that up for too long. And then it all spills out and you see each other and then you love each other in that. And then you have these kids and it's beautiful. And Jason Everett was talking about how oil comes to the surface, you know, like marriage does that. And so does fatherhood. It brings all those defects that you perhaps never would have known you had.

You know, marriage does that, but then kids come along and you thought you were a basically patient, good person. And then you haven't slept in two days or something. And then all of that wickedness and selfishness, like real evil, uh, comes to the surface. And then you either have to abandon everybody or deal with it. I mean, I can remember being so mad at my kids when they were like two. Me too. Right. And you're just like like why won't you just do the one thing?

I and I remember it like go and just losing it crying in my room being like What the hell is wrong with it? It's a two-year-old. I'm just yelling or but there's also so much pressure on on you dads Because you've been you have this idea that if I don't correct this thing in them now, they are obviously going to be a drug dealer. But once you've had, once you don't pick up this toy, you will be an addict. Exactly. But you know, now I've got my fourth kid, Peter, who I love dearly. And you see these like little disrespectful attitudes come out and, and you realize it's

not the end of the world. And that's why I think sometimes older kids will say to their parents, you treated the younger ones a lot differently to us. And it's not just because the parents are too exhausted to care, it's that they've learned what's worth caring about. Have you found that? I've learned that. So okay, so this is I think the difference in our personality. Okay, my parents are from Philadelphia.

My parents are from inner city. If I don't get a solid one minute monologue of your mother's accent, I'm gonna be disappointed. Michael, I used to wake up, Michael, Michael! And I would like, oh my gosh, right? The way that she said it. But no, my parents are from Philadelphia and the running joke is we should buy them a teaser that says to people in the south, right? We live in Texas

I'm not mad. I'm just from Philly. Like I'm not mad I remember when my parents met not when they first met my in-laws, but it was like a new kind of experience They had come down. We were renting a house I was barbecuing me and my mom got an argument about Iran and militarism, as one does, as one does. And my mom, and we're exchanging, to my sweet Midwestern in-laws, it seemed like we were yelling. To me and my mom, we were talking passionately.

And my mother-in-law stepped in between and she goes, Hail Mary, full of grace, okay, peace. And I thought my mom was gonna shiv her in the back with a knife. I'm not mad. You know, it's like growing up in Kensington in a row home, right? Like, it's the fentanyl capital of America. You're done. No. Uh, it was so, it was so funny, but I remember that was the moment that I realized like, Oh, our personalities are radically different

So when I parent I tend towards loud and louder like the only two volumes I have and one of the things I've cultivated is Apologizing that I am not good at when I have to do that to my kids There is a book called not my Father's Son written by an actor. You'll figure it out. I read chapter one and two on a plane and cried the whole way. He's a famous actor and he talked about

how violent his father was. And one day walked in, you need a haircut. He was pissed drunk and just back from the factory and took a pair of rusty shavers that weren't oiled and was ripping out his hair as he was shaving. And you know this guy, if we, you got it? Yeah. You know him.

Alan Cumming? Who? Alan Cumming. Alan Cumming. Anywho, you probably, if you saw his picture, you'd recognize him. But I remember seeing that, reading that book. The villain in Spy Kids. That's what I know I'm from.

Cool. kids. That's what I know I'm from. And, and, and weeping for this man's childhood and realizing in myself, my loudness for a child can sound like hate and hurt and violence or whatever, you know, not hit my kid or anything like that. But the, going back to my kids repeatedly, right? Even now, 13 year old, that's hard. You ever apologize to a 13 year old? That's hard. I think what makes it so difficult is that the fear is that in apologizing, they won't realize the thing that they were wrong in. And it becomes about dad.

I think it was Bill Burr who talked about this with his wife. Is he? Yeah. He said that she'll do something, right? And then I'll lose my, whatever. And then it becomes all about me losing my thing instead of that thing that's actually, like whereas if I had just handled it well, we could have then dealt with this problem here. I think that's the fear with kids.

It's like they do something legitimately wrong, you might lose it and then it becomes all about you. And then if you apologize, that's the pride thing I think. But kids are smart enough to realize, no, I messed up and I apologize for that. Please pride thing, I think. But kids are smart enough to realize, no, I messed up and I apologize for that. Please forgive me, I was wrong to do that. And then you can address the issue. But it is hard.

Yeah. The Amish have this thing of like, you never correct while you're angry. Right, so you usually wait the next day. Yeah, good human advice. And I do think that, like, you gotta walk away. You gotta walk away, you gotta take a a breath and I'm not good at that Because I think oh in the in the moment that's when they're really gonna learn and I go and honestly

I struggle with the guilt of it all even though I do apologize whenever I and I don't do it all that time often I say to myself lying in front of a camera But there is a thing on Instagram Beautiful Instagram that has saved my soul. No, he saved my self-esteem. He just said, if you're a dad who's constantly asking yourself, am I a good dad? The answer is you are, because bad dads don't wonder.

Right, people who are bad. That's the same thing with people. Yeah. Like if you wonder, like people who say, I'm a good person, probably I'm. You're selling yourself something. Yeah. Yeah I like that keep going with that. Yeah. No, and so that that for me

Like I'm a very dramatic person. I am. Yeah, I don't know why my dad is not Yeah, he's a very He's a very my dad is a very calming person even from being from feeling when he gets pissed He gets pissed but the experience of my kids emasculating, like they know what and why we're about what we're about. Like we don't do that. Other people do that, we don't do that. Why don't we do that?

Well I'll tell you why, boom, boom, boom. I'm very honest with my kids. I talk to them like they're kids, but as if I expect them to be adults. So I give them reasons and answers and do the big plunge. Yeah, I don't know. That's why. Yeah, I. I really like my kids, but I didn't always.

When I had children in the beginning, I really thought I'd be a good dad. And I thought I'd be a good dad because, you know, I had read bits of the theology of the body and I heard talks on marriage and nodded sagely as I listened to them. And so that when children came and made demands upon my selfishness that I was not prepared for and I saw my immaturity and my whatever, narcissism, I know that's the buzzword these days, I was shocked and terrified and disheartened and and and I just I

remember going up to other dads and being like, it's hard, right? And they're like, yeah, but it's great. I'm like, oh, when do I get to the great part? Yeah, it was like I was so I was so afraid that no one could relate to me. I felt so alone, like all these

new dads. I'm like, of course it's great. Sure. But, but for me it was the, the emphasis wasn't, but it's great. For me it was, it's great, but I'm drowning. That was my, that was my reality. And here's another baby. Right. Yeah.

But I'm glad to say, thank you Lord, that I just love my kids. They're so good. And I don't know if I think kids in the eighties and nineties were probably the worst kids in the history of humanity. Really? Yeah. X-Men cartoon. With those inspirational messages from Mr. T and Sonic, it didn't matter. I mean kids to that. My kids are so much better than, oh my gosh, my kids are incredible. Absolutely. In my gosh. My kids are incredible. Absolutely in comparison to you Yes, right. Yeah, I was a shit. I was a so was I but my point is all of us were

I didn't want to admit we were raised with porn and all sorts of crap and of course kids are today But if you're in any way clued in you don't give your kids devices, right? You don't send them to schools without asking I've been been to theology of the body talk where I said, if your kid is younger than, younger than 16 and you've given them a phone, you're a bad parent. And a couple of my friends were just sitting there like, and they rolled their eyes at me and like, here it normally goes again. But I'm like, no, but you and I can bang on the same drum. And people do not understand. You start with the, yeah, exactly. But, but so my kids don't grow up with that stuff.

They don't grow up with MTV and. We I don't know. I just think my kids are terrific kids. So my daughter, my oldest Kateri, goes to sleep over with some of her friends from the church that we were talking about earlier. And the mob texts says the girls on their own in my daughter's room, it was like four or five of them have decided

to pray the rosary together. And I was like, me and my buddy were busy trying to watch the scrambled spice channel on cable to see what we could see what, what glimpse of a, you know, not, not, not good, not great. I will see your parenting when and I'll up last. They did the entire access. Thatches please. Oh yeah. Let me just like this and I'll give it to you.

No, my daughter, I won't say which one came in last night with one of those poppers. What are those things that kids have for those little rubber popper things? Oh yeah. Yeah. And she asked if she should throw it out because it's rainbow colored. And father, it's rainbow colored. And I literally counted the colors on the rainbow. And it was good just to talk about that. I'm like, no, they're seven. You're good. Yeah, exactly. Roy G. Biv, baby. But I just love that she's thinking about that.

And I love that we would went absolutely if we thought it was actually pushing some kind of LGBTQ agenda. That's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. Can I? And one more. Yeah. My son, Liam, who's the coolest kid in the world, he plays D and D with a few friends, a few doors down. Oh, so he's going to hell. Exactly. Yeah. But in the meantime he's really cool. And, and, and they were all, I went over there and their dad is this awesome Deacon, Mike Walker, great guy. And, uh, is he one of the Deacons that play D and D Deacon, Mike Walker, great guy. And, uh,

is he one of the Deacons that played D and D with like, Oh yeah, super nerd. Exactly. But Deacon Bob and he's like, Hey boys, let's pray a divine mercy chaplet before we begin. And they all just, yep, they all just, yeah. Okay. That's what you do. It's just awesome. And they wanted to, and they pray. And if anything, I've got to, I've got to remind my kids to pray for sinners and to realize that they are sinners, too. It's not my son. One of my sons, he wakes up every morning at about six thirty, wakes up before he before he gets out of bed, puts on his clothes for the day.

And what a failure. What a failure there. Now he wakes up, brushes his hair. That's always his key thing. My son, Noah, eldest eldest boy comes downstairs, greets us, you know, sweet kid. He has two books to the Bible day by day, little, you know, like your rosary devotional book that he reads every day.

How are you? He's nine and he sits there and he does amazing, my eight year old can barely read. Home school and then. Whoa, we home school but we classical and I'm a psychopath. So yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Great quote.

Hey Paul, also if you could make a list of all of Govher's insane one liners, we home school but we classical and I'm a psychopath. You're welcome America. Yeah, but he just sits there. And so every so often when I catch him doing that like when I'm like downstairs At that time or whatever like so would you learn? But you know, I don't really know I was like well come over here and he'll immediately open it up and we'll read it together

I go. Oh, this is this is part of The sheep and the goat separation where he says this is why it says, you know Well, blah blah and I go and I'll explain to him the whole thing. He goes, oh, that makes much more sense. Okay, okay, okay, I get it. So how can I help those who are ill? You know, because that's what the meditation was on. And I'm just like, I never did this. Like my family, we prayed the daily rosary.

My dad, my mom, daily rosary, scriptural rosary. So my dad has Black Knights of Columbus rosary. Would pass it, like you knew you've arrived when you got the rosary first and you had to pray the Apostles' Creed, the big prayer. But we read and largely memorized the scriptural rosary, the little hardback book. Crushed it, loved it, have that for my kids.

I'll never forget the day. I didn't like that at all. I didn't like the scriptural rosary. You're a bad person. My dad gave me, when I got I got married and we had our, I think it was our second kid. He said, I think you need this now. Who said that? My dad. How cool and I open up the scriptural rosary book and it said father Maurice

1965, right? It was his original that I grew up praying and now I pray with my kids. That's beautiful. Right? That awesome. Yeah. Even though it's no, I'm just, what, what? Yeah, it's a terrible translation. I'll tell you that much. No, no, no, no, no. That's not what I'm saying. It's one step away from the new living. It was one step away. No, no, no, no. No. I feel like now that I've said such a steps from the message, it's a thousand, but remember when the message was in and we all went and got a

copy. Not me, not me because of the advertising. Cause it said is the Bible plus sign Tabasco sauce equals the message. And I was like, whup, I'm done. I can't follow that. I can't follow that. Was that what they did? I never saw that.

That was literally an advertisement. Now, the thing I don't enjoy about the scriptural rosary isn't, I see the value in meditating on scripture, obviously, and it's beautiful. But one of the reasons I love the Jesus prayer and one of the reasons I love the rosary, but like struggle to love it in the same way, is this, this intense focus that's already required in the rosary, you know, like, so if I'm going to pray the rosary, I need to be like, all right, what am I going to do? I guess I'll sit over there or I'll go for a walk and I'll do this thing. Uh, or I will, you know, where's the Jesus prayer.

I was like, I'm on a plane. I'm like, whatever I'm off criticism of the Jesus prayer. And I want your feedback honestly. Yeah. I'm happy to respond to it. Let me offer a yeah. So love, love the rosary. Love praying the rosary with the family. Um, my fear is that just the, just the inserting a line of scripture in between, I can see that as a great way to kickstart your devotion to the rosary. Like it reminds you why you meditate on these things and what you should be thinking about as you kind of pray.

But to me personally, and this is not a criticism of the book as much as it is just to say this is how I experience it, it kind of takes me out of that kind of rhythmic, yeah, meditative way of reflecting mentally upon the images. Yeah, criticism of the Jesus prayer. Well, number one, here's where you're wrong about the scriptural rosary. Now, for me as a, growing up doing it, that's the rhythm. The rhythm is hail Mary. There was a, it was

a virgin betray, betrothed to Joseph and the virgin's name was Mary. Hail Mary. Like there's, the rhythm becomes with scripture and think of a Catholic who has memorized the principal events in the life of Christ In scripture, right or is deeply familiar with it. So I'm okay with that But to me, it's almost like a different prayer at that point What I don't like about a lot of prayers is what I call piety sprawl. Oh Absolutely. So I'm not even a huge fan of the introductory prayers to the rosary. Even the Creed, the Alpha, the three, I just like first mystery, boom. And then, all right, I'll pray the Fatima prayer cause you know, bless my ass for it. But I just, and then when people say, now let's sing, are they? No, no, no.

Someone has to put a stop to the many prayers. Yeah. The length of a rosary within. So. I agreed a hundred percent agreed with that. A hundred percent agreed with that. But just think about Catholics who, an aid in meditation, keeping your brain on track with the rosary by incorporating scripture that it then doesn't become monotonous. It becomes familiar. No, I can, I can totally see what you're saying with the, with the rhythmic. Yeah. But that takes time. Now the acathist or not the acathist,

the Jesus prayer. Do you ever feel, and especially when you're saying a 10,000 times or whatever the, the they talk about doing, that's a little form of, and this is not literally what I'm saying, but self hypnosis. You know what I mean? Like you're just saying one thing over and over again. I understand structuring, ordering your brain, your thoughts, putting a death, the monkey brain, all that stuff. Do you ever feel feel like you know what I mean by self hypnosis like you're repeating a mantra to the point where? It it like dilutes your thought the first encounter

I ever have with the Jesus prayer the guy said I end up praying it in my sleep I end up praying it in my waking moments to try to say it 10,000 times. You're saying it all the time Yeah, let me let me try to respond to that in a way that I haven't thought through. So again, kind of what you just said, like, yeah, over instruction. So for example, I think that if you chose to say I am one with the force and the force is one with me over and over again, you might have the same physiological response. Okay. So, um, that was a good throwback to Rogue One. Thank you. Uh,

so I don't think that, so if what you're going for in the Jesus prayer is just like this to breathe a certain way and to feel the certain calmness, then I think that's not the point of the Jesus prayer. But to repeat these words that encapsulate the gospel, this is who he is, this is who I am in relation to him, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. And to not even have the pressure to have to intentionally think on these words as I say them necessarily, there's something, I don't know, you don't agree with me too quickly,

but I think there's something in that that is really freeing. Like, it's not that you don't, you don't intend to just put yourself before the Lord as you pray these things. But the idea that I don't have to feel guilty when I've already prayed like 20, 50 Jesus prayers and I was thinking about something else. And there is just, I don't know, just something very human and beautiful about forcing these words to kind of adapt to the way you naturally breathe, such that you find yourself saying this beautiful prayer, even unintentionally. But your credit, your, it may not even be a criticism,

but your thought was, what do you, what do you mean by, am I afraid that it's just self-hypnosis? Like when I started to try to do it. So I said it probably on a retreat, retreat about two three thousand times. I felt like words became a Nebulous blob. Yeah, I'm sure if I endured. Yeah, you know, I was like am I trying to trick my brain into doing something into You know what? That's a good point into what into into thinking about Jesus Christ of God Savior of the world. Right? I don't know. It just felt like I was like hitting a mantra where I was getting to nothingness. You know, like a mindfulness meditation.

Totally. And I think that if you listen to people who know what they're talking about, maybe an Orthodox priest or Eastern Catholic priest address the Jesus prayer, I think the things that they often address right away is like, this is, these are not magical words. And the breath doesn't really even matter. It's just like, if you didn't have a rope, then you would use your breath as a way of counting them. Nor does the number of times you pray matter. It's, you're getting lost in the prayer. Yeah. But I, but I think, I think as humans,

we love mechanical things because it removes the much more difficult thing of relationship out of it. So that's what we like, the idea of Buddhism and like this special formula. You sit under this tree and you say these things. Okay, I can do that. And so maybe people are tempted to think of the Jesus prayer in the way that people think of Buddhist prayer. You know what I like about what you said? This is what you ever, do you ever listen to audio books or podcasts? Yes, but I cannot do it. My brain won't let me do it Oh, that is so sad. I listen to audiobooks on double-speed. That is my life. My wife too. Yeah So I love I love it when I'm mow

Right a mowing. I'm not thinking about other than is this straight? It's kind of straight keep going, right? But whenever I'm mowing around the tree, I'm thinking of this one scene that happened in a, you know, fiction audio book. I listen to a lot of science fiction and it's funny, like the following week when I mow that scene will come up right when I get around the tree. And it's like, how cool is it? Just think about this. How cool is it that when I breathe, I'm thinking of Jesus Christ, my savior. Yeah. Or like, yeah, or at least words are coming out and then you become attentive to what's happening that you're not even intending. I think you've probably heard the story of the time my wife was in,

she had surgery. I don't know if it was a C-section. I don't think so, but she came out of anesthesia, praying the Jesus prayer before she was cognizant of it. Wow. That's kind of beautiful. There's something beautiful. I'm literally scared of anesthesia because of what I'll say. Does that happen into my ID? What is happening? My son Noah, when he came out of anesthesia, after he had his tonsillectomy, he woke up, he looked around, he looked at the nurse and he goes, mom,

Hey, no, like he's like, Hey, and she goes, Oh yeah, no, that's beautiful. I love that. Okay. You won me over. But I think the important thing is I got this theory. I don't know if it's if it has any weight at all. Sometimes I wonder if that's what podcasts are for. Yeah. I wonder sometimes if lay people treat private devotions like liturgy because some bad priests have treated liturgy as if it were their private devotion. Oh, you like that? And it's kind of like, all right. Codes of emotions are happening right now.

You're gonna mess up our liturgy, you're gonna take away our altar rails, you're gonna do all this stuff, right? Here's how you're gonna freaking well pray the rosary and we're gonna be very dogmatic about it. You know what? We are adding 15 different devotions that we should have had at mass.

I wonder some, maybe that isn't the genesis of it, but I am, that's something that's always bothered me a little bit when people treat private devotions as if they're kind of things the church says you must do. That's always been a thing that's bothered me. And I love that about you. I bet I'm always okay when someone doesn't like a particular devotion, because it gives me a chance,

like, cool, don't like it then. Yeah, the thing that always pissed me off, working for the parish, everyone thinks that the thing that saved them is the thing that's gonna save you. Yeah. Right, and I remember one guy's like, you have to go on this particular retreat. Yeah.

And I said to him, no, I don't. And he stopped me and he goes, what do you mean? I said, I already believe in Jesus. I've given my entire life to him. I have Christian community. Like I pray daily. Like I don't, what else am I gonna get? And he just looked at me and he was like,

I don't know, but you need to go. I was like, no, you needed to go. And that's beautiful. And I'm glad that it was there, but I don't know, but you need to go. I was like, no, you needed to go, and that's beautiful, and I'm glad that it was there, but I don't need to go. And that's true for so many different devotions. I remember when I talked to a priest, he's like, I can't stand the rosary. I was like, oh, okay, and he goes,

give me scripture to meditate on. I go, what about the scriptural rosary that I handed him my dad's book full circle? That's not true, but yeah, it's all good. He went back in time and became father's law. And so from 1965, it was 1985 back into future. Oh, father Marie's 1965. Well done. I think it was, uh, who, who wrote, I think it was Alphonse de la Corre. Who wrote uniformity with God's will. Was it conformity to God's will uniformity

with God's will. I believe it is probably a Protestant. It was either that or as Francis to sales' introduction to the venom of life, but I think it's the former. And he makes the very point you're making that some people will find great use in a particular devotion, and then they insist that everybody- That's de Sales, yeah. Is it de Sales? Okay. You gotta leave it.

You gotta leave it if it's not beneficial. Whereas the one thing that we can be sure that we are all meant to do, and that is to sort of submit to the will of God, Fiat Voluntos tour, no matter what happens kind of thing, you know, and liturgy and liturgy liturgy. Yeah. And this is where we go onto the major topic. How did you, this is, we joked earlier because you guys want to do the break here. I have the mid roll. Let's do the mid ride to pee. are floating. I love it when you say that

Hey, Matt. Yeah, I hear that uh, the june's coming up. What's going on there? Okay, so you might not know this but june is the month in which catholics dedicate To venerating the sacred heart of jesus and that's it That's all you're allowed to do in June. You're not allowed to celebrate anything else. You might be looking around and thinking, gee, everybody's celebrating God's covenant with Noah. That's not what they're doing.

And so we want to take back this month for the sacred heart, which is why we've put together this really beautiful t-shirt. It says, Reclaim the Month. It's a way to show that we stand in opposition against the sexual debauchery that's being pushed on us and promoted in our society and instead we want to turn to Jesus Christ. And it's a great conversation starter so please click the link in the description below and pick up a t-shirt today. Hey so I also want to say thank you to Halo. Halo is an excellent

app that will help you pray and meditate.'s got excellent sleep stories and audio books if you go to hello.com Matt right now again We'll put the link in the description below just by signing up over there You can try the entire app for free for three months free So after those three months if you don't like it, you can cancel it You won't be charged ascent, but I use it and many people I know use it as well, and I think you'll really like it. Hello.com slash Matt. to to to to the the Now we're back. Now we're back.

Good day. Good day. Good day. Good day. So now I would like us to finish this. Gosh, how amazing would that be? You want me to start start going now that we're after the we don't need that cork. And we're finishing longest podcast. we don't need that cork

We're finishing longest podcast. I don't know dude. It's up to you I have a high tolerance for whiskey so you can go if you think you'll be fine, but don't be don't shoot it don't Don't you don't shoot that much whiskey He's in his 20s. He's fine. He's not fine. You and I are old men. We can do this all night 20s. He's fine. He's not fine. You and I are old men. We can do this all night. You don't shoot it. Oh, I regret that immediately. That was not a shot size.

That was not a shot. I was like a triple shot. You promise me that if you actually start to feel that we end the stream because I'm fine. All right. Me, your microphone. Don't say anything else. You just ruin the show.

Oh, my gosh. All right. Yes, sir. We laughed earlier because you came in here and I made fun of your little Catholic Anglican prayer book. And I had your dastardly to do that while my little Orthodox prayer book was on the table. And I thought, is there a large swath of Catholics who would never come out and criticize the novus auto, but have pretty much given up on it. I think the, yeah, I honestly believe for faithful Catholics who are sick and tired of the rad trad dichotomy and all this stuff. I really do think the Eastern churches are going to grow crazy,

crazy amounts because of Western Catholics who were like, I have a friend in college. The first person I ever met that was Byzantine was an Irish girl, Irish family who lived in Seattle that said, I can't take this anymore. Crazy masses, silly. This is the death and resurrection of Christ that we are celebrating and nothing matters. And those are parents, and so they became Byzantine. Everything matters. Everything matters. Everything's intentional. Everything's rooted. Everything's a thousand years old. And the continuity, the continuity, that's the thing that bothers me, is we think because we've studied something, and maybe, you know, in the liturgical movement, we've studied something, we, you know, in the liturgical movement,

we've studied something, we figured, oh, this is when it happened, is why it happened, is the reaction of what happened, that then we can say, okay, quarantine it, quantify it, get rid of it. And it's like, no, no, maybe the Lord used these moments, much like the creed and the heresy with Arianism and, you know, monophysitism and all this stuff, that that's why we have the creed that we have today. Maybe that's why we have the Cree that we have today. Maybe that's why we have the Mass that we have today. Maybe these aren't accretions that have accumulated over time, but things that have narrowed and perfected what we have over time.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Maybe there are some corrections, Easter Vigil that doesn't start at 10 a.m., but rather at 8.30 p.m. But maybe, maybe we've gone too far and that going too far lingers in my mind as if tradition is not sacred. Just a quick anecdote about, well, we have a new Melkite mission in town. I heard, yeah. He's doing a marriage and family counseling here for three years.

And so the one Melkite bishop of the United States, let's say, let's start a mission. And so every Monday morning we pray on the third story of what's going to be the coolest brewery you've ever seen should be open next year. Right. And so we all show up. Is this you? No, no, no, I'm not. Dave Matthews, not the singer, Jacob, E-mum, a few other folks. It's going to be terrific. In fact, if you're around, I'll take you through it. It's gorgeous. Anyway, so every Monday morning, 8am, the priest comes, we have the icons set up, the incense and we're chanting, right? But what just nearly brought me to tears was at the end,

all the men line up and we all walk and we put our hands out, the priest blesses us and we kiss his hand. And it's like the humility of a priest who allows himself to be who he is now, who doesn't say, call me Jeff. And that's the hyperbole. That's the extreme of priests, but it's, there's something so remarkable about it. Okay. So how did you join the Anglican ordinary yet? Well, you shouldn't call it the Anglican ordinary. It's called the ordinary. See, this shows that you're, you're okay. Yeah. Is it not called the Anglican ordinary? Huh? Is that not what it's called? The ordinary. Okay. Yeah. In, in the, in North America,

it's called the ordinary to the chair of St. Peter. Okay. Thank you. Redoubling its effort to be founded on Rome, throw the matches. Bam. So, so, okay. So the ordinary it is run out of the cathedral church. Our lady of walls and ham is in Houston and it was the only Houston church. There's our lady of the atonement, which is one of the other early churches. And I don't know, I have all the history. That's in San Antonio. It's a bunch of churches in the Dallas Fort Worth area. Um, the church is all over North America. JP2 started like, hey, when the idea of it is this, Protestantism is a heresy, apostasy, whatever, but also in its flourishing has

identified certain principles that are wholly Catholic, but developed maybe in a different way in their different denominations. So you can just think of love of scripture, right? You always talk about that. With my brothers and sisters, that's my invitation of you. It's good. Damn, it's terrible, it's terrible. But the idea is they have gifts that when they become Catholic, they bring their gifts.

Right, like things got on. Scotty, I call him Scotty. Things got on when he came into the church, the revolution that he brought to ordinary Catholics who all of a sudden was like, oh, these six covenants with the seventh being Revelation, I now understand the flow of the Bible, and now I understand typology and, you know, like all this stuff. It's so fascinating.

But this is the thing that the church, that JP II in his ecumenism was trying to grab hold of, which is like, Protestants come into the Catholic Church and bring with you the great treasures that are in conformity with Catholicism. So, he gave limited approval, Benedict gave more approval, and then you can kind of call it the mass of Pope Francis, which is the Divine Liturgy, what is it called, Divine Worship, the liturgy that borrows from three different, three or four different sources.

So source number one is the Serum, the Old Serum Liturgy. So before the Council of Trent, a lot of local cultures had their own liturgical expression. In England, it was called the Serum Liturgy. And I'm not an expert on this, I'm just learning this stuff as I go. But the Serum Liturgy was what was happening at the time of the Reformation. So think about, number one, the predates the Latin Mass. Number two, the Latin Mass of the Roman right. Number

three, the lectionary of the Novus Ordo. And number four, the treasury of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer that's in conformity with the theology of the Catholic Church. So those elements, Kramner, who's a bizarre man, a heretic, burned by Protestants, bounced back and forth, ping-ponged from Catholicism to Protestantism, could call it Catholicism in the back of the head. He wrote three prayers that are in the Anglican Book of Common Prayer that made it into the ordinary at mass, the

approved mass of the ordinary. When I went to my first, it was, it was Christmas Eve, it was midnight mass. It was in a barn. There was no floor. It was dirt. The front had an altar rail and an old and an old at orientum altar and a beautiful crash and a little nativity scene. And then the choir began the Roman chance, began the, the, the Anglican prayers, or not the Anglican, but the English prayers and hymns. And I felt like, I felt like that's what the Christmas liturgy was for. Then a girl died.

It kills me, kills me talking about this. Juanita, she died. She went to my church, she went to this ordinary parish, parents went to the ordinary parish. She died tragically, she was riding her bicycle across the street, got hit by a car. Her pastor, Father Fletcher, was there on the scene across the street, got hit by a car. Her pastor, Father Fletcher, was there on the scene until like two, three in the morning. They had the

mass at St. Anthony's at my parish, which holds 1,400 because their barn holds like 150. And it was the second largest mass in the history of the ordinary, the first being the ordination of Bishop Lopes at the cathedral in Houston. And to know that, so I've watched it. It was at our church. We recorded it. We did it. I have like the, wept over this girl's mass because of how beautiful it was. So I interviewed Father Fletcher on Catching Foxes. And I said, when I saw that, I told my my wife I don't know if I ever become this thing my Irish grandparents would never want me to But that's how I want to be buried. That's how I want. I want my funeral mass I do if a priest says it! I was on your solo! All over your Orthodox prayer room!

You were being so meaningful! You were being so meaningful! And I was like, Gotta stick on Gomer! Gotta stick on Gomer! Gotta stick on Gomer! And then Matt sprays! Okay hold on, time out. Nobody else knows what happened so we're just yelling.

It was something about your wild eyes. As you said that, I just spat my entire drink across the table Matt just sprayed the entire set with Zevia Ruby. You know what this is anointed? This is anointed. What did you say? You're saying it again. Are we just going to celebrate their lives? This guy's worried about me having alcohol. No, this wasn't alcohol. That's all Zivia. That's Zevian. Zeevia.

Zivia does that to a man. Oh! Did you just hold your pinky up? I did. I did. Cause I'm a gentleman. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so if a priest ever says...

Right. It's gonna be a celebration of life! Something wild-wise. It's gonna be a celebration of life. Now, here's the deal. Here's the deal with that. I've heard thousands of priests say that when it comes to funeral masses. And so when I brought this up in that episode of Catching Foxes of Father Fletcher, I told him this and he goes, I want to get back to that. He said, but why do we wear black at a requiem mass? Why do Catholics? Why do we wear black?

And he looked at my buddy Brian and he said, Brian, you don't know everything about your friend, Michael here. Called me Michael, weird, Gomer, right? And I said, and I was like, I don't know, I send him my dream journal every morning, like whatever. And he said, no, like we all have hidden lives, right? We all have things that we don't disclose,

even to the people that we love the most. And he said, that's why we wear black because we all have secret sins. Yeah. Even the sins that we keep secret from ourselves that we lie to ourselves about. I'm not really that angry. I have patience. I didn't really yell at my kid. I was correcting them, you know, like whatever.

And he said, we wear black because no one is perfect, because everyone needs to sacrifice for their sins. And the requiem mass is meant to be just that. And I told him, I said, I told my wife, I want to, if I die, I want to be buried that way. And he said, Juanita's funeral was the second largest mass in the ordinary of history. He said, and when I got done with that, a man walked up to me and said to me, we all want to die now so that we can be buried and meet our Lord this way. He said, and six months

later we buried him in St. Anthony's, at St. Anthony's, according to the rites of the ordinary. I just met his wife the other day. Um, I met her for coffee and we had a long conversation about a bunch of different stuff. And I told her that story and she said, cause I didn't, I didn't know her like that much. And, and, but when she was telling me about herself and her life and, you know, my husband died about, you know, blah, blah, blah. I was like, Oh my goodness, this is the man that father and I said, can I tell you this story? And

I showed her and she started getting choked up and she said, there is nothing more beautiful than a Requiem mass celebrated well. And you think about all the ways that we tried to make the liturgy personal by making it creative and unique and original and custom to you and banal right and we think that that's speaking to their heart but the the reality is when you go to a funeral mass there's 20 or 50 or 100 or 500 or 1400 hearts there how do you speak to all of them you do it by not speaking to any one of them not trying to be folksy and original and cute and like, you know, we better get busy living

or we're gonna get busy dying, right? Like you don't do crap like that, you do the liturgy. And what the liturgy does, it's abstracted enough that, and it's symbolic enough, that people who have no clue why they're there, the atheists who left the church years ago, all of a sudden, what is unfolding before them is true and it's good and it's beautiful. So this is a problem with masses that try to go custom and personal and be

folksy and less rigid to deviate from the rubrics is you emphasize your preferences, your interpretation from the rubrics is you emphasize your preferences, your interpretation of the rubrics, your style or what you think other people need. Not everyone in that room, if you go to a typical Sunday mass, not everyone is at the same place, but the Sunday mass with its words in black and its words in red actually detach you from that personalism, which actually makes it more personal. See, this is the thing that people don't realize it becomes more personal, not because the priest is like, well, let me tell you a little bit about myself. Let me make jokes with the choir director and let me bring my dog up on here in

the altars cause y'all, y'all know who I am. I got the dog. It was a long story, but, um, you have these things that we try to make personal, but what we do is we're not hitting every heart and The liturgy is supposed to hit every heart. That's why it's communal my personal devotion Ought to be if the rosary isn't my thing the scriptural rosary the sung rosary the whatever your your pocket guy to the rosary It might hit some people's hearts and not others good then as Saint, as St. Teresa of Avila says, then put it away. Go do something else. When it comes to our devotional life, yeah, that makes sense.

It needs to be custom to you. But our liturgical life is the worship of the church, quah church. So if you say to me, well, I don't really like organ music, I'll go, okay, I don't like guitar music. Now that we've canceled out our preferences, where do we go from here? I don't really like your old people singing your old hymns. Okay, I don't like your new hymns. Where do we go from here? I don't like praise and worship in the liturgy. Where do we go from here? Or I do like praise and worship and I don't like the hymns.

What do we do when we argue over our passions and our preferences? Doesn't matter. Screw them. What matters is what does the church say? What does tradition lay out for us? And that's the thing is like we can advance the tradition when we incorporate it, but then cutting ourselves off from it, bracketing it, and then saying, well, we're going to do a new thing. That's where I think we get into a whole host of trouble. That's what I think young people are trying to discover is like, Oh, for 1500 years or for 1900 years or for 1965 years, we did this and now we're doing that. And has it born fruit? I don't know. So in my heart,

the ordinary was like a beautiful middle ground for Protestants who are becoming Catholic and a thing that never compromised its Catholicity. It was a thing that for traditionalists, they could have access to without ever compromising. Still laughing, sorry. This is gonna happen. No, it's beautiful. When you get serious.

Yeah, no, I gotcha. Celebration of life. But think about all of those tropes. Like for instance, okay, when people say, so it's a meme. A meme originally means a mental virus, right? When people who don't read the same things you read, say the same things, you know there's a meme. A meme originally means a mental virus. Right? When people who don't read the same things you read say the same things, you know there's a mental virus. So, you can talk to a

thousand different priests from a thousand different backgrounds and they'll say, well, I wear white because it's a celebration of life, it's a resurrection. You say, yeah, but the church has always worn black because it's a celebration of penance and forgiveness and mercy in Christ Jesus. So, we wear black, the black is a sign of penance Right. Yeah So then you say well, why are you wearing white? Well, the church permits us to okay I have no problem with you wearing white but the tradition is to wear black because in the western church that we belong to black Symbolizes mourning but it also symbolizes penance principally. It's penance

So the problem becomes like you hear these people say, well, I don't like that kind of music. Why don't you like it? Well, it's not vibrant. It's not life-giving. So what you mean is it's not emotionally satisfying to my desires. And because it's not emotionally satisfying

to my desires, it's therefore illegitimate. Then the question becomes, is that the point of the liturgy? Right, the liturgy should not, now your personal devotional prayer life should be that thing. It should be like clicking with you. But the liturgy is something different. You should be clicking with it.

And that's the fundamental problem that I don't think, that I don't think a lot of Catholics understand because they haven't been exposed to enough really solid traditional liturgy. And by traditional I don't just mean Latin, right? I mean chanted liturgy. So when I went to the Ordinary and they chanted everything and they sang the old hymns and they wove chant

and they wove the Latin and they wove the English, I just sat there two and a half hours, two hours for a Sunday mass. And I looked at my kids and my kids did not freak out. Every so often I'll send them to a bath and break youngest. Yeah, he's a squirrely bastard But I'll be like go take a bathroom break. It's too much incense like you can't even see the priest Say you know, they're doing it right there. So your family's taken to it Yeah, so we now belong to the ordinary of the church

So you have to request you have to send it all the stuff to the chancery, you have to send in your confirmation certificates, me and my wife. I did the same thing, that's why I'm Ukrainian Catholic now. Are you Ukrainian? Nice. Okay, okay. One day, one day, you'll be Ukrainian Catholic, not Ukrainian Greek Catholic, right? Is that the hope?

What? It's Ukrainian Greek Catholic, isn't it? Yes, that's true, yes, I see what you mean. Yeah. But this, how many is there? 32 Eastern churches? There are 22 Eastern churches. 22.

And there's one Western. And the Western has several rights. 22, right. So it, but it's, it's, I don't know. I mean, whether I was to be Ruthinian or Melchior didn't matter to me. Yeah. We went to a Ruthinian in Atlanta and I got to know father Jason very well here. And so we went through the whole process. He's terrific.

I just went to Ukraine with him and that man is wild. Well, I love the episode where the war started and you guys go to the orphanage and that was trying to get the orphans. Yeah. We were in, um, Hagia Sophia that's been, uh, turned into a mosque and do the marmadans. And we were very close to celebrating divine liturgy and secret within there.

And I'm happy to say that it was father Jason who chose not to, not me. I'm very proud of myself. He's like, he's like we've got all this money and stuff to bring to Ukraine. Can we, I don't want to get arrested. Fair enough. Prudence. I mean, I'm sure people have done that. Don't you think people have done that? I hope so. Yeah. The, the last example we have of someone celebrating divine liturgy in secret and how you Sophia, I think was around the second world war. Don't quote me, but, but, uh, and he got away with it, but it was a big thing. Yeah. So I don't know, but, um,

the ordinary, it's, it's a peculiar thing. I remember sitting there and my biggest struggle with it was not it's liturgy. It's not Kramner writing the three principal prayers, um, that are set in mass, right? Kramner, right? He's a heretic. He's an apostate. He's a bastard. But, uh, it was, in fact, I actually have those three prayers printed in my, and hanging framed in my office. And I had no clue about their origin

until I had that conversation. I just thought, this prayer of humble access, this is beautiful. This is such a podcast question. Let me ask you this. Wow, what? Let me ask you this. What is the future of the Novus Ordo in the Roman right? If in America.

Yeah, no, I can tell you that right now. Uh, no, I don't know. I don't know because, um, have you ever read? And I wonder how insulting a question like that must be to a faithful priest who celebrates. I don't mean to be offensive. I don't think it's offensive. I think this is the question that we're all asking since tradition is custodians, since Pope Benedict allowed the extraordinary and ordinary form.

The Latin right was never, the Roman right was never, was never told to stop being performed, right? And so people who flocked to the Latin mass were flocking to some some that's our inheritance. The fact that it's like 11 to 13% of the original prayers of the Latin mass were preserved into the novus ordo. The novus ordo wasn't finished when it was proclaimed. Now I'm not a part of, I'm not a rad trad. I'm not a part of some radical Latin community or anything.

I don't go to Latin mass. I haven't been to it in years. So I got, I don't have a dog in that hunt in particular, but the reality is Eucharistic Prayer Number Two was written in haste, right? It was written, half of it was composed in an Italian restaurant right before it was approved. There was a lot of duplicity involved in it, but the biggest shock of it, right,

was the actual address of Saint Paul the sixth in 1969 to the Italian bishops, the Italian faithful, right before Advent. And it was this famous address that he gave where he said, okay, it's happening. And he goes through, and it's not a very long letter, and he goes through and he explains the things that are gonna happen because of it. You're not going to like the fact that Latin is going away and blah blah blah and he lists a whole bunch of stuff and the first maybe I'm going to say it's like you know a four paragraph intro

and then a six paragraph here's all the horrible things that are going to happen and then it's like somewhere around paragraph 11 12 13 where he's like but this is the reason why the evangelization of the nations. Now let me ask you, have the nations been evangelized by the Nova Zordo? That's a big question. What's a big question. Cause I grew up in Australia and now I live here. Yeah. I don't, I don't see. You see more or less people go into mass than you did in the 50s, 60s, 70s.

No, I I'm with you. I'm just trying to give like if I just base it on my account and not anything I've heard or read. Yeah, I live in a different epoch, don't I? I mean, I grew up in a. A kind of lazy fair. Yeah. No disorder community that was. But is that a feature or a bug?

Right, see this is the thing is, when you go to those novis ordo communities that take the tradition seriously, they do what I think, I wanna say it's general instruction on the Roman Missal, paragraph 42. I think that's what it is. Where basically it says, the key to interpreting all this stuff is the Roman right.

So if you don't know what's going on, grab the Roman right and do that, right? How many places do that? How many churches have communion patents when you receive Holy Communion? How many places do the, all the different things that happened during the Latin Mass, and you realize, well, that's a fraction of a fraction of a percent. This is the question is, is the week's, how did you phrase it, like the happy-go-lucky, Nova Sordo experience? Yeah, the Laze Fair kind of. Laze Fair, right. Anything goes. Is that the standard or is that the exception? No, that's the standard. That's the standard. And then the question is, why?

Right, see that's the thing that kills me. I'm not saying, okay, this is the part of the disclaimer of the podcast where I say, just like Scott Hahn said in your interview with him, I do not believe that Nova's Order was evil or wrong or demonic or not the sacrifice of Christ on the cross or any of that stuff. Okay, I believe it's a worthy and good mass when celebrated correctly. At the same time, what we lost in the transition, right? There was a middle ground in 1967 of a missile that took into account sacrosanctum concilium from Vatican dew and tried to preserve the very best of the Roman rite, because they didn't think

they were getting rid of the Roman ritual from the tridentine mass. They didn't think they were doing that at all. By 69 they did. And they were like, what's gonna happen? Men are gonna leave the church. Have men left the church? They laughed when they said that.

Yeah, Latin's gonna disappear. Latin's never gonna disappear. Latin disappeared. Reverence for the Eucharist is gonna go away. Has reverence for the Eucharist gone away compared to a Latin Mass? So for me, joining the ordinary is not joining a reactionary group, anti Novus Ordo. We have the Novus Ordo lectionary. We have, you know,

all sorts of stuff. It is seeing the best of the English tradition, which is incredible that as an Irishman, I don't want to give credit for crap. I do not at all want to give credit for, but in seeing it and actually starting to to study it the Newman's and before you realize like there is a cultural heritage here That is worth Preserving so what's the future of the nervous order in America? Do you think I think we're not one I think the people who are most serious are gonna join Latin communities or they're gonna join the ordinary it or they're gonna join Latin communities, or they're going to join the ordinary, or they're going to join Eastern communities. That's what I think too.

I think people are exhausted over – the people who are listening to me who are like, well, but, I think we're all exhausted from the liturgy war, but we're not getting help. Right? Our experience at the Universal Church is the local priest. And if his experience and training – right, we fall to the level of our training, we don't rise to the occasion. If his training in seminary was everything before 1967 or 65 was evil or inadequate, then he has a hostility to tradition. So what's the hope in building that up? You know, there's a famous story of these Siro Malabar Indian nuns.

There was a rite that was, they were buried according to the Nova Sordo and these Siro Malabar nuns who were serving their by ritual and they're serving at this church, they're burying this man and a lot of people were there, the parish, and they felt deeply saddened. And the nuns began a chant in the Siro Malabar tradition. And every person in the room, at the gravesite just froze, and no one moved,

no one left, because they realized something holy is happening here. And this is what sacred music is. Sacred music is things that come from the liturgy and are for the liturgy. Religious music is things that come from our religious experience, and is to foster our religion, but not necessarily the liturgy.

So chant and all these things are all meant to be something that that builds up and aggrandizes the glory to God not like building a bridge for me and all that stuff. Well then in order for dioceses to exist and to remain are they going to have to either get serious what are they going to to do? Like if you're a bishop right now and you're overseeing a particular diocese, is there a future for the novus order as it is? I think there is a future, but not as it is, not as it is in the lackadaisical, hey, come one, come all, let's do this. Like, no, no, there's no future in that. Because, okay, so this is what we did. So here's the secular world and most of our people are there, right? And here's the church, here's heaven, here's the kingdom of heaven. So the church is, is we're going to build a bridge. And that was the intention of Vatican too. We got to meet modern man where modern man is in order to bring him to where the kingdom of God is. But this is what we did. We then moved the church to the bridge.

Right? I mean, think about Matt Maher. I love Matt Maher, personally, physically. No, I love that. Matt had this line where he talked about why did he write mass parts that have a little bit of Latin. I hope that becomes the clip. That's a clip, that's a clip. A short. Thank you, I appreciate that.

You're welcome, you're welcome. I asked him before the show to say one ridiculous thing for a short. Oh, he's barely it barely a buckle up But he said like I use Latin and in English right when he does on you say you take away You know he said because the goal the the highest ideal of the church is chant in Latin which is unaccompanied by music so when I do the on you say I do it a little bit of Latin a little bit of English and I do the Agnus Dei, I do it a little bit of Latin, a little bit of English, and my band, we drop out, so you sing it in the Latin, unaccompanied singing. To me, that's a bridge.

That's saying, hey, here's the contemporary music that you like, because Matt Maher's a badass. Here's chant that you've never heard, and so it's difficult, so let me build a bridge. But for most churches, they move the church to the bridge and they just live there. There is no bridge. It's it. It's done. We're going to do rock and roll Jesus. And that's all we're ever going to do. Good luck. You know? And so the problem is when we ape the culture, why are we shocked that most of our people leave the church for the culture?

Why are we shocked at that? We are hemorrhaging people. So would you like to see the current nervous auto? I mean, have you been to a nervous auto mass at orientum? Oh, so many celebrated in Latin. Yeah. They're beautiful. Is that what you would want to see happen? Is that what you think? But is that the standard? See, that's the problem is what would take to get at the standard half of the people, almost all the people in almost all the churches in America would leave,

would leave the church. If it went to Latin. You do ad orientum, I guarantee you a fifth of the people will leave the church. And we had a guy who was so angry that kind of sort of the back of the chair of the priest blocked some people out. How dare you? I thought this was an inclusive church. It's like, it's a bit, it's kind of a church in the round. So some people are going to be blocked. Is there a point in which though we just have to bishops and priests are going to have to bite that bullet for the sake of good liturgy? Yeah. I think two things would enhance reverence to the Eucharist and the current

novus order at orientum and altar rails. You do this. And a third is communion patterns. Not one crumb should touch the floor. No, of course. I mean, think about that catechistically. Not one crumb should touch the floor because this is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus.

Alter rails. You and I should receive on our knees before our Lord. Unless you're in the East, but totally. You should receive with a spoon, right? What do they call a spoon? What do they call it? I don't know. Ah, you're so Ukrainian.

You gotta come up with a Ukrainian or a, yeah, yeah. But what's the idea behind that? Is the priest's hands are consecrated specifically to give you the Eucharist in a certain mode. Right, we offer the holy sacrifice to the master then we give you Holy Communion. You are coming forward to the altar. You're coming forward to the sanctuary. You're coming forward to heaven. This is a pilgrimage. So, in the West, you fall on your knees, which is a sign of not just penance, which it is in the East that we share in the East, but also a sign of adoration. I'm on

my knees before the Lamb of God. So, I everything and I receive. So I take, yeah. I think at this point there would be people who would attend the Latin Mass and go, okay, this is, I appreciate the fact that you're trying to increase the reverence, but you're not going nearly far enough. What you have to agree to is that all of the modern variations that have crept into the liturgy have to be killed. We have to admit that this was all one big mistake and just go back. So here's what I actually think.

Okay, so if I'm viewing this whole thing. So the idea is you're not enlightened enough. You're not yet red-pilled enough. All modernism, all the turns are wrong turns. A lot of people who were alive in the 50s and 60s and talk about the church at the time say, I never heard about a loving God. You and I have never not heard about a loving God, right? Pete Slauson Too much.

Pete Slauson Too much, like, gosh, okay! Pete Slauson I get it. I get it, God is love. But is He? Yes, He is. But the idea of it is, what if we went through this to recover the essential nature of God? That God is for us, not against us. The God the Father actually desires that all should be saved. That Jesus Christ died and poured His blood out for you and for the many, for the forgiveness of sins. So, what if this time of, you could say, softening of the church's justice and strict rubricization and all that stuff what if

it was a time to say hey like like the letter to the church in Ephesians a book of Revelation you've forgotten your first love you got all these things that are wonderful but you've forgotten your first love and you're gonna go to hell for all eternity because you've forgotten that that's my paraphrase what if you have everything perfect this is a the thing. What if your Latin mass is 100% perfect, but you don't love people and you don't love God? You're going to go to hell forever. So, what if God is willing to pull back, and now this is just me, sheer conjecture, so that if we return, you know, Dr. Kwasniewski's The Once and Future Mass, right, what if we return to the Latin Mass but we don't abandon the love that we have, that we recovered?

Right? Because so many people, I mean, my parents were like, you know, you never heard of the love of God. It was all judgment, judgment, judgment. So what if we had the love of God in the Latin Mass? Then all of a sudden, the things that are actually in the Latin Mass, and this is the thing you find about Latin Mass communities They go out of their way like you look at the the mass of the ages

Videos, yeah, like they're going out of their way to point out these things Look at the love of God in every verse in every paragraph you repent because God loves you and he's merciful You don't repent because I'm a judge, right? Like you're bad cuz he's merciful and he loves you right? So if that recovers with the Latin Mass, don't you think the church would be amazing? Yes. And that's what the ordinariate is to me.

I'm not joking. I'm not exaggerating. You know, Reverend, what's his name? Calvin, what's his name? Robinson. Robinson. Yeah, Calvin Robinson. I loved the Oxford thing, broke my heart when he made that comment about the ordinariate in London. Yeah. And you called him in London. Yeah. Yeah. And you called him a coward. It's fine. No, but- Like what he was called? No, he was a cowardly, because he said like two days before. So I don't know anything about that.

I can't speak to any of that, except for the fact that he made some political- Oh, right. No, the priest. Yeah. Well, the bishop said that he can't go into his church to do that Christmas thing. But I don't know. I thought about this in the shower today If this conversation came I think about you a lot in the shower You and Matt my you you Mar Thursday No, but but the idea is

He'd hear they're not the ideas He said right before he prefaced that with he wrote an article Defending so-and-so as not being the racist everyone thinks he is and I'm like, well, that's probably Can you imagine being like well actually the head of the Ku Klux Klan is not as racist I'm not saying that's what he did but like it would be like oh I'm gonna distance myself from you However, however, the ordinary it has for me recovered my kids they go to liturgy My we go to other masses and all these different church, cause I travel, try to take them with me and they'll say,

why did they do that? Why did they do what? Well, why did they play that song? That's a silly song. That's not, that's not appropriate for the church. Right? They'll say these things all the time. I never, I never talk about liturgy with my kids and Pope Benedict was right. Good liturgical catechesis is liturgy done well. When Father Fletcher or Father McCain celebrate liturgy at the Church of the Presentation, the presentation of the Lord Catholic Church, when they celebrate it, no one thinks it's

all about them, not for an instant. When you go to your Ukrainian, whatever it is, this thing, sacred liturgy, weird Muslim Orthodox thing you do. Yeah. When you go there, do people sit there and think, wow, father nailed it today. Or do you just think, Oh, that was the divine liturgy. Yeah. He just did what he was supposed to do. Yeah. The more original we are as per, the more original priests are, the less they are. The more alienating because we're appealing to preferences. But also think about this, the priest in the person of Christ is from father Robert Hugh Benson. Am I becoming preachy?

You warned me about this. You warned me about this. That's right in my mouth, this microphone. Father Robert Hugh Benson says that the priest is an ambassador for Christ. So think about when you need to go to a priest. If you have about when you need to go to a priest. If you, have you ever needed to go to a priest? What do you go to him for? Jesus, mercy. Right there, done. You go to him precisely where he is imitati

or where he's a person of Christ. 100%, I'm not going for Ralph. Now you might be friends with Ralph. But I don't need to see Ralph. I don't need Ralph, Ralph's just there. But you're going for Christ. And this is his whole point, is if he's an ambassador of reconciliation, think about this. If he's an ambassador, an ambassador for the king shares the message of the king to

the people. Now imagine if he decided to share his own message. Yeah. Right? You don't have any right to use that language. Right. You share the original message, the original gospel, the original proclamation. You don't have any right to make it your own or to do something original or creative or whatever. Now within the message, be creative, be original, be

whatever, but you occupy this space. So when we create something or we allow, so the novice order, I don't think is evil, intrinsically evil intrinsically evil, stupid crap like that. I don't think that at all. But if bishops attack traditionalists or conservatives more than they do wack jobs, doing crazy wackadoodle things with the liturgy, to me, it says I favor rat, uh, creativity, originality, and I favor a pot, uh, not a posasy, what's the word I'm looking for, banality, whatever, more than I favor, preferentialism, what I call the iron law of vague sentimentality.

If it makes a grandmother go, oh, that was nice, you can never remove it from the liturgy again, right? Versus rubricism, versus obedience to what the church asks for you. So how are you going to endure the masses that will be celebrated here at the Francis Consumable conferences? Oh man. Can I tell you how? Yes. Okay. Number one, I know everyone's hearts in the right place. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Beautiful people who love the Lord. Number two, I go to mass. No matter when mass will be, I kneel down or I sit there and I open up this prayer book. Now this is a St. Gregory prayer book. Anyone can buy it. I got it on Kindle as well. It's not mine. It's the ordinary prayer book. I read the prayers before mass and I read the prayers before communion. And as I go, I go to this little red piece, which is where the divine liturgy is. And I open it up, divine worship, and I read the unique parts. And as I sit there and I take in every word from the homily that the Bishop is

going to preach. There's a lot of them usually. Yeah. I take it all in and I love it because here's the deal. The Lord Jesus Christ is going to work through his instruments and I'm not afraid of even where our fig leaves and our humanity and our need to be loved afraid of even where our fig leaves and our humanity and our need to be loved and need to be creative and need to be, oh, whiz bang, you know. Of course, we all have that, okay.

I have no problem with any of that. I don't belong to a traditional Latin Mass community, right? I can feel that, but when I am most at home is when the priest is most disappeared. Rupert Spira So then wouldn't that be something that you would encourage people at this conference or some other conference to, I mean, it's not really a place to do it. It's not really a place to listen to. Pete Slauson If it's in my talk, I always do it. I always do it. I talk about this ad nauseam.

Right? Ladies and gentlemen, you are here for the liturgy. The liturgy is here, is not here for you in the sense of it's here to cowtail to what your needs, desires and preferences. And yet you're going, you're going, and this isn't me criticizing Franciscan. Why are you criticizing Franciscan? These conferences have brought more people to Christ than we could ever hope to, I think. And yet they're going to be playing praise and worship music. So what's your opinion on that? And have you thought about bringing this up to people that maybe change?

Cause I think one thing that Augustine Institute does really well is they try to play sacred music at the divine liturgy, at the holy mass. Yeah. You know, one of the things I wish they would do is across the board integrate the antiphons pre-mass, you know, the beginning of mass communion, antiphon. Josh Blakesley does that really well. When I was at, I'm trying to think, it was in Sumanville, Mid-America, he did,

because he used to be at my parish, and he would do these antiphons, and he has such a beautiful voice. And he would sing these antiphons. The funny thing was, as the speakers, we always sit near the priests in these stadium seatings, and I see the priests and all the younger priests, they literally just see their shoulders go, ah,

as the antiphon is being sung. When was the last time you went to a Nova Sordom mass and the antiphon was sung? I think every, uh, gosh, are you trying to get me fired from the Sumo conferences? I think every, every match should have the antiphons. We should be diving deep into that. When praise and worship starts. just guitar drums. Yeah. I don't like any of it. Right. I don't. And increasingly, I don't think, I think most people are like you. I think most people,

I think most younger people are not all, not all. It's really, it the kind of divide is like really, really good Matt Maher praise and worship or the older stuff, the chant and the, and the hymnody. But what we keep getting is 1970s shenanigans, and I can't take that anymore. No, but that's not what's happening at these masses. No, but the sumo masses are largely,

the youth conference masses are largely the Matt Maher style stuff. And I mean, I'm fine with that because I know he's faithful and the lyrics are gonna be faithful. The moment they're not is the moment that I say something I've said something every every year So you're willing to take a certain amount? Yeah, because oh absolutely cuz I can't control the man. I'm not in charge of it, right? Yeah, that's right But when I see things happening that are good

I immediately affirm it when I see things that happen that are contrary to the faith old and I but I also know like I'm I'm in I'm I am a charismatic, I'm a tradismatic, you could say that. I do see myself as someone who is in line with the vision of the youth conference, like I love them, because I've seen how they work. I mean, those kids being in that arena and all of a sudden, you know, like,

a spare Jace May, having a priest going and sprinkling holy water, you know, I don't know how that would fit. And I don't know how ready they would be for it, but I will tell you this. When we've had at different parishes experiences of old school tradition, people, cause it ignites their senses. It takes them to be as they are. Human persons. No, I think they would love it. I really do. I think you for saying that. Yes, that's a Latin mass with 800 teens. I think they would find it absolutely overwhelmingly beautiful.

I think they would find elements beautiful. I think they would find elements on alienating. See, this is the thing about us, right? We've, um, music educates are, you know, what St. Paul said, uh, their God is their stomach. The Thumas in Greek is like your loins, your guts, you know, when St. Paul said, their God is their stomach. The thumos in Greek is like your loins, your guts, your stomach, our most base desires. So if I've educated your most base desires and you buried your father to On Eagles Wings,

and I'm a priest and I say, On Eagles Wings is a joke of a song, well, you're gonna hate me for the rest of your life. Because your desires have been educated, the fact that you buried your father to that. Like we need to have to be pastorally sensitive that the last 60 years we've exposed people to hymns that even the U S C C B's congregation for the doctrine of the faith said is immoral. It says, is,

is heresy, right? Catholic hymnals with the Neil Absa and impermater. The, are you familiar with this? The, the CDC, the CDF, excuse me, of the USCCB has said, here's eight principles. You need to judge every song. But there are a lot of songs that are heresy in Catholic hymnals. There's a wonderful article called, All Our Welcome is No Longer Welcome in Catholic Parishes. Right? Because it's heresy. The things that they are saying, right before we receive communion, we say wine. Come on. It's not wine It's the blood of Christ Anyhow, so I

Would say that we've educated people and we've educated their desires to have a visceral reaction against tradition Let us build a house Love can dwell. That's a different set of glasses. What about those glasses? Well, I'll tell you what, here's what happened. So whenever I go places, I usually forget my glasses. And so I'll buy whatever cheap glasses happen to be on the rack, whether that be at a drug store or a used bookstore. And so one day these are all that I had.

So I put these on this morning for my locals morning coffee podcast and someone said, you look like you're about to play canasta. Isn't that brilliant? Oh, that is awesome. Is it canasta? Yeah. Yeah. Can I ask that? Can I tell you a joke I saw in the chat, uh, two days ago that I thought was hilarious. So I'll put these on so I get made fun of less. Go for it. Somebody said, see you look like Rand Paul now. Uh-huh. Somebody said that it was interesting that Rand Paul was interviewing Ann Coulter

on Pints with a Coyness. That's good. Oh, come on. She looked nothing like Ann Coulter. But I will tell you that, when you put those other glasses on, do they work the same as those? Yeah.

Okay, you know who you look like? The man with the horned rim glasses. My grandma. No, from Heroes. You remember season one and two? No, what do I type in to see it? You're a monster. The man, is that who I am?

Yeah, the man with the horned rim glasses from Heroes. Horned rim. It's the worst. Can't believe you don't know that. Oh, that fella. Beeeee and two were the best season three four five and etc were terrible was the writers strike so I don't care for care if it was your mom strike it was the worst ever okay after that I feel great don't take that you can have more if you need it but you need it let's read these

lyrics let us build a house where love can dwell and all can have more if you need it. I need it. Let's read these lyrics. Let us build a house where love can dwell and all can safely live, a place where saints and children tell how hearts learn to forgive. Do you understand the heresy that's already mentioned? Well, look, and what you've already read. Okay, let's see, let us build a house. So much of it's like, it's poetry,

so it's difficult to nail it down. It's not- Who does the building? Us. Yeah. Bastards. Right, And what did Jesus say in Matthew 16? I will build my church. Yeah. Right. Keep going. All right. This is good. You can put out all the heresies to this. Saints and children tell children are savages. We should listen to them. You're a terrible person. What did my son say to me one time? He's like,

Built of hopes and dreams and visions, rock of faith and vault of grace. Here the love of Christ shall end divisions. Didn't he say? Oh, okay. He came out to- Sing not, I have come to bring priests, but rather I have come to bring the sword of division. I will build the father- Let us build a house where prophets speak and words are strong and true where all God's children dare to seek to dream God's reign and new here.

The cross shall stand as witness and a symbol of God's grace. Here is one. We claim the faith of Jesus. All are welcome. All are welcome. All are welcome in this place. I'm going to play it. That's a good song though. No, we can't. We get banned because of the U.S. CZB. We have done this. The U.S.C.B. have the copyright. Oh, no. Who has the copyright? I have no idea. Gaia. Gaia is what I call. Do you know what the original name of GIA was? And was built a house where love can dwell. Marty Hogan conquers all.

A place where saints and children tell our hearts learned to... I know the death penalty is supposed to be inadmissible. Only in the new cataclysm. No, but Hogan and Haas, right? David Haas has already been canceled. He's out of there. Marty Hogan is a Lutheran. And when you go to his Lutheran bio

on his Lutheran website for his Lutheran hymnals, it says this music is only played in liberal Lutheran and Catholic churches. Right, so when you start to think about this stuff, I think it's Hogan, you start to think about what comes from the liturgy and returns to the liturgy, not just what has biblical themes. So for instance, when you go to the sanctuary of God,

what should be there is the scenes of the crucifixion or scenes of heaven, right? Why? Scenes of the crucifixion and scenes of heaven. Why? Because this is what's taking place in the liturgy. Exactly, it's the, it's a sacrifice of Christ. Represented.

It's Gaia Publications. Huh? You were not kidding. GIA. It's GIA, it's Gaia Publications. Gaia Publications is my derogatory pronunciation. GIA is the name. And do you know what it originally stands for?

Gregorian Institute of America, in response to the Pope's call that every parish. This is still the acronym? Yeah. Gregorian Institute of America, the 19 teens, 20s, that every parish have a Gregorian chant choir, basically this call. And so they formed to do this. And then the sixties happened. And then they became Gaia. Right. And so what happens? This is what I'm saying. So many people argue, but the bishops allow it. It

must be allowed. It must be a part of the church. Why would so many bishops and priests and whatever do it? It's like, because this is the zeitgeist. This is the spirit of the age. If the USCCB is saying in Catholic hymnals with Catholic neel obssats have non or anti-Catholic Niel Absatz have non or anti Catholic hymnody, then maybe we should say, Whoa, then what kind of hymnody ought we to have? Chant is important for a couple of reasons. One, it's ancient. Two, it belongs to the, it's ancientness means it belongs to the patrimony of the church. Three,

it's non-metered. It's not based on beats, which means it doesn't emotionally manipulate you. Beats, right? You remember the old, the old slave ships like Ben Hur rowing, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then you go faster, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, ramming speed, right? We do this, the beat, the drum sets the tone and it causes an emotional response within us. The idea of un-metered means it's detached from a rhythm and it's attached to the importance of the words. So in Catholic liturgy, chant follows

the word, the word proclaimed. So the most important words get an emphasis, whether it's an uptick or a downtick, or you know, I don't know anything about music, but it's that notion of those words that are like, that speak of the most, the most important word in the sentence gets emphasized. The least important or whatever gets monotonized. And so when we say like, um, you know, whatever, like when we're doing Gregorian chant, the purpose is also it's sung at a level that everyone in the room can sing, right? How many times have you been a part of the song where it's only the people in the band

that can sing? My big thing is when we determine liturgy via vibrance and vibrance via how the music makes me feel, we are alienated completely from the gospel because what we're doing is we're leading with emotions and we're asking the church to conform rather than leading with the word of God proclaimed and then letting our music and thus our participation be informed from that. Great thoughts, really, really. I mean, think about the thing about your Eastern liturgy. Yeah, thinking about it.

Right, they go behind the iconostasis. You don't see them, but you hear them. In the Latin church, you don't hear them, or you don't, you see them, but you don't hear them, because largely the E hear them because largely the, the, the Eucharistic prayer is silent in the Latin mass. So you split the difference. One is seen, but not heard. The other one's heard, but not seen. This is the idea of like, I can participate without saying like every word in the mass.

Pope Benedict said the problem with the Nova Sordo is it's too didactic. It's all about teaching and interaction. What if I don't feel like it? Am I no longer fully consciously and actively participating? There's so many problems, so many problems, but I do know this that people who have conversions because of it doesn't mean they're not authentic conversions. People who fall in love with Christ because of a praise and worship song. Beautiful. Even if it's sung at mass, they listen to it at home, I don't care.

Beautiful, Jesus Christ can save anyone at any time because he is the sovereign Lord of the universe. I am not, if I was, it would be a horrible place if I was God. So don't fret that you love some praise and worship song unless it's by Bethel, then you should be nervous. You need to research that shit. But other than that, the idea is like,

Christ can work with anything. The Holy Spirit can work with anything. But the Holy Spirit preserves the liturgy for a reason and your devotional life for a reason. And that's why I love The Ordinary. This book, you can see this book, touch this book. Just touch it. I've got the book at home, yes.

Just touch it. You know why you're touching? You know why you're touching? What? You're touching almost every sacred site in Jerusalem. Really in Israel besides the sites that I missed because I was pooping in the Hotel because I got a horrible disease in Jordan. Oh, I went to the Holy Land. Have you been not yet? You all do everybody says no no no no it's like when I say I haven't watched Casablanca yet Oh, come on. They're frankly my dear. I just don't give a damn me Can we go together? I mean you your wife my wife and probably Jeff Cavins because he gets to everything

I'm open to it. I and Upset Thursday. No, no, you're 20 something you don't count But when I was on the deck of a boat on the Sea of Galilee, huh? And Magdala was here Capernaum was here and all of the three synoptics info. I just wept like a child. There's a lot of crying in my narrative. This touched everything. The amount of Beatitudes.

All right, we need to change subjects because I asked my local supporters if they would give us example for 10 minute topics. I love your locals. Did you know that? I love them. They're such good people. Thank you. I agree. I think your locals. Did you know that? I love them. They're such good people.

Thank you. I agree. I think they're wonderful. Locals, they won't cancel you because you're against the trans agenda. Some of them have, but most of them have stuck around. All right, so let's not make 10 minute topics. Okay, we'll do 10 second topics.

Hey, Thursday, you see this? I'm moving the microphone. I know. All right, let's make this, hey, I'm gonna come up with a timer, online timer. Oh, don't do that. Do you want me to do it? Do you don't know when the time is,

and I can just call it? Yeah, but keep it quick. I think these should be like two minute topics. Two minutes, two minutes, okay. We gotta stick to it. Ready? Do you wanna talk about the ordinary again? Set.

Luke W says, this is not part of it. The question can't be part of it. Curious if Goma is still obsessed with self-defense videos remember the episode where he talked about getting a Glock 19 I really enjoyed the episode where he talked about the importance of protecting your family and being aware of the dangers that people can sometimes face Go I have a Glock 19 gen 5 I am obsessed. I'm not obsessed with it like I was my my My neighbor who's a woman who has two kids her estranged husband Came to her house and was smashing her head against several of the walls and then dragged her and their dog out to the driveway

I intervened like an idiot I walked out and go hey, what's going on? I really And then he threatened my life and threatened to murder my family. The next day he, so I took my family out, the guy goes to jail. Three days later, he was supposed to be no bail. He made bail immediately. The woman came to my house, said to me, God this is why I love my wife so much. She said to me and my wife. That's great, you're allowed to love her wife so much. She said to me,

I love it, but you got about 30 seconds. Yeah. She said to me and my wife, my husband, my ex husband has friends and please the next time this happens, just let them kill me. And then my wife said, and I'll never forget this. She said, I could never be married to a man who would not lay down his wife for an innocent person. His life is that you meant? Yeah. Lay down who would not lay down his wife for an innocent person. His life is that you meant? Yeah. Lay down his life, lay down his life.

And wife keep going, lay down his wife. Please take my wife. She's fragile. Uh, no, take my life. No. She said I would never be married to a man who wouldn't give his life. And then she looked at her and for honestly, I felt like I was at the sermon on the Mount. She was like, do you understand what worth you have that you are worth dying for do you know that Jesus Christ died for you your wife said this to her To her yeah to this woman who was almost in a out of body like she's just like bless her Please don't ever do this don't ever do this and the white truck that they had parking driver

She goes, you know understand what that truck is that's his brother who murdered his wife and Kids and then himself at a party and I took the truck and I was like, oh my gosh But yeah, so I still care deeply about my defense Probably too late, but why do folks hate the Chosen? I've only been able to watch a few episodes but it seems to be a great way to bring people to our Lord and savior. The chosen is great. Um, I think- Sorry, it's for in a minute so I can have a word.

Yeah. Why don't you go first then? Well, the only thing I saw recently was that pride flag. But to me that wasn't a bigger deal at all to me in the way that people made it out to be. And I'm clearly against this stuff. And the reason it wasn't a big deal to me is that he hires all sorts of secular actors, he also contracts people to do work, this wasn't something that was officially being flown by Chosen Inc, this was by a contractor and it happened to be picked up in a behind the scenes photo.

I think what was more troubling was some of the awful things that the actors said on Twitter about people being homophobic and they can go away and stop watching the show. I thought that was really immature and unfortunate, but even that doesn't bother me. I'm not watching the show because I believe in the personal holiness of these particular actors.

But I'm not big into the show. I really like Jonathan Rumi. I think they've done a good job with it, but I don't really follow it. Yeah, I don't really follow it either. I got to episode, I think three, uh, the, the children episode and I just got this weird vibe of little kids coming to Jesus without their parents and he's whittling things. And I was like, I got it. I can't, after the charter for the protection of children in Dallas, I can't deal, but I I've never, um, we were also in a binary kind of time in society where we have to love or hate

something instead of being like, I'd really like these elements of it. You know, let it do that. Who's side are you on? Pick a side. Yeah. So maybe don't fall into the trap. Yeah. So I think we still have time. Also the chosen is a television show about Christ and nothing captures the mystery of Jesus. Get your own image of Jesus by reading the gospels. God bless you. How much time do we have left? 20 seconds.

Okay. Next one. Andrew Massey says the proper way to evangelize charitably with someone aggressively against the church, whether atheist incorrect use of the church teaching or even a poorly catechized Catholic. Probably to find out what they need prayer for and to be a witness to them, especially in their most painful needs. If they don't express their painful needs to you, then you need to invite them over and be a part of their life. Because no one gives a crap about you and your message if you don't give a crap about

them. Jesus says, they know you are my disciples by the love you have for one another. If they don't know the love that you have for one another, why would they believe your message that the God of the universe is the God of love, especially confronted with their own personal suffering and pain? So you need to overcome suffering and pain by suffering well and loving them in the midst of it. I think it was Pope Paul the sixth who said in his encyclical, I think it was an encyclical on evangelization that modern man listens more today to witnesses than to teachers.

And if he does listen to teachers, it's because they're first witnesses. Evangelia in the Tzion Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So focusing on loving. I mean we think that that's a cop-out. Yeah. It's not. Loving people is harder than telling them about Christ. Next one. But you still got to reset. That was a minute. That's okay. We're not allowed to go over two minutes. Deal? Patrick says the Catholic card game in capitals for some reason. Both of your shows have featured cards in the expansion pack. I wonder what it is like cooking up those sweet one liners and more importantly, which ones were your favorite? I only ever got the first edition. I really

enjoyed playing it. We actually played it at my house. That was real fun. Oh man, that was so funny. We played it together. I played it like twice with some friends of mine back in Houston Then we went to Atlanta played with you and there were so many because you didn't submit your own Do you remember this you didn't submit your own you submit and then so he created them based on your podcast uh-huh and And you were like well, that's an Australian serial type and you There was like an element within you that was a little offended at how Australian it was. And for me, I was like, oh, I'm loving this.

Because the ADHD of me, I didn't submit. We submitted like a third of what we were supposed to. But some of them were your shirt off in the confessional. Again, that was one of the cards. That was my favorite part. That was my favorite part. I don't know how they still making card games. Oh, yeah, it's great.

That that those guys, I mean, they're they're incredible. And one of my they have a celebrity Catholic celebrity thing. And my face is like I'm like, the microphone's a cartoon. I'm like, that's going to be the new one. Oh, the Lord is annoying to this podcast. Next question, you like resetting the timer. Stephen Brown says, Go more. Soointed this podcast. Next question. You like resetting the timer. Stephen Brown says, go. So sad he moved on from St. Anthony's, but he's absolutely phenomenal.

My wife and I attended a theology, the body of talk with him. And we learned so much in the two hours from him. Not a question. Thank you though. Next one. Uh, Emma asks, go on. You ready? What is leisure and how do we correctly practice it? I think in order to understand leisure, you have to differentiate it from dissociating. And so activities that actually restore you as opposed to just distract you, I think that's the first step in understanding. So I guess I would equate leisure with recreation.

And so I can do something to distract me. I can do something to take my mind off something. I can do something to not exist for a while as it were, because the time rushes past, I don't even notice it. But often when I do these things and shut the laptop lid or whatever else, I don't actually feel restored. So I think asking yourself like, what is actually restoring you? And then to realize that leisure often takes work, whereas distraction doesn't. And so if you really want true leisure, true recreation, you kind of have to work for it, which is counterintuitive. Yeah. Leisure is the basis of culture.

Don't know if you've read that Yosa Peeper book. It's a good one. It is a good one, but like things like poetry and reading spiritual books and reading great works like Shakespeare, which I become a fan of. Good man. Have you heard about my love of Shakespeare? If you've gotten into him, I know that you are now, Oh, it happened. I am a direct helping assisting a directing of my kids plays. Oh my god about nothing Midsummer Night's Dream. I fell in love Oh my gosh, I love Shakespeare so much and But but leisure is restorative in the sense of it takes effort, but the effort is sweet. It's not work

It's not built around the work ado work a day world. It's not about how can I maximize this? This is this is my critique. This is why I quit. One of the reasons why I quit my job because my leisure was also becoming my side hustle and thus it was no longer leisure, but work. So don't do that. Read Tennyson, Liam Parker. So I don't know if we love Liam. Do you? No, no. Lessons learned from running Catholic podcasts. Most Catholic podcasts are too formulaic. Most Catholic podcasts only last six to eight episodes.

They never get more than 120 episodes or listeners per episode. Yeah. Most Catholic podcasts are trying to regurgitate content that they already know. Most Catholic podcasts do not care about their own insufficiencies and what they don't know. They only want to postulate and deal with those areas that they do know and thus they are inadequate. What about you? Yeah, when people ask me should I start a podcast,

I think the two things or two or three things that I've learned is one, if I can have the freedom just to be who I am with all of my insufficiencies and be okay with that as opposed to trying to kind of sound like Scott Hahn or Jason Everett, if I can just be myself, you can just be yourself, that's good. And second, is this something that I would do even if no more than 50 people ever listen to it in the history of the thing is it something I'd still want to do I think that's that's a nice kind of I would tell you though Start a podcast if you think you're called to it or you just want to do it. Yeah, do it. Let us pressure

No, no, but no, but I love what you're saying because let a thousand flowers bloom and if it doesn't last I'll see you in eight episodes and you know, it's done. OK, great. You've tried it. You have no regrets. And then the other thing I've learned is it's far more helpful to listen and take advice from people like contemporaries and like people, not contemporaries, but people you trust and love like yourself, Loma or Luke as well. Like if Luke called me and said, Matt, I think you shouldn't have said that or you should have said this, but you didn't.

I need to take that seriously in a way that I wouldn't take a hundred comments from anonymous strangers. And maybe, and when you're reading a hundred comments from anonymous strangers, you don't feel that way. It feels all important. And I need to listen to these randos Yeah with their burner accounts Criticizing a woman because she had pants on you next question. Well done What is her name? What was her name? Kim Zemba Kim? Yeah, what?

Can we just talk about here? I'll come up with a question. What are your thoughts on Kim Zemba? Okay I'll tell you exactly what hit me about her talk more than anything else. Just so you know, you're married and she's gay, but good luck. Still love her. Still love her. Not gay. Same sex attracted. She is amazing. Amazing. Like shockingly so.

And then she loves Jesus. Can I tell you what she uncoated for me was the sacrificial nature of the priesthood of the laity? She said, I don't rep, I can't remember the exact word. She said, I don't repress these things, these desires that I have. I offer them to Christ about her same sex attraction. Offer is the language of the priesthood, right? Yeah. I want to recommend to everybody. It's hard to do this

because it sounds like shameless promotion, and it isn't. I do that as well, I'm okay doing it. This isn't one of those times. Watch that podcast with Kim we did the other day, and then please share it on Facebook or Twitter or wherever you share your things. Sometimes I'll do a podcast, I'll have a conversation,

I think to myself, I can go home and sleep for the rest of the year, I've done my job. And by done my job just meant brought this beautiful story. Yeah. She was incredible. She w what? Okay. Say her name again. Kim Zemba. Kim. For some reason I want to say Lisa. I'm saying it so much that now I'm afraid I'm, I've got it wrong. Kim Zemba, right? Kim. Yes. Kim Zemba. Kim, listen, I'm talking to you now, Kim. Hey, hey, Thursday, you got the camera on me instead of on Matt

Unlike when she talked to the camera. She didn't give me a warning. She's She did Kim you you're that your testimony is incredible and has actually literally called this Man here husband father to level of of sanctity that I thought I already had but wasn't aware of. So I do want to say this, can I say this? I think same-sex attracted Roman Catholics are actually going to lead the way in sanctity. Because, I mean, number one, they've been so gaslighted by the church, like, yeah, we want to welcome you, but just don't talk about you. Right? But number two, when they actually strive for holiness, they're striving against a desire to him,

Dan rules. God bless you. We got to stick to the two. It's artificial, but whatever. Okay. R four one, two, one. Has he moved out a shot? I feel like he's moved over. Is he, it'll go up. Yeah. I'm coming to get him as soon as you finish the question. Rules regarding Catholics attending weddings, whether it be natural marriages, sacramental marriages or interfaith marriages. I'll say something real quick. Okay, so you have to make a distinction between what is a valid marriage and what is a sacramental marriage.

Two Protestant Christians who marry are, all things being equal, both validly married and sacramentally married, because in order for a marriage to be sacramental, both parties need to be baptized. If you are a Catholic, however, just like the state regulates the marriages of its citizens, whether it should or shouldn't is the point, the church has a right to regulate the marriages of its citizens. And so you have to, as a Catholic, maintain the form of marriage. And if you don't, let's say you choose to get married to a Protestant and or not even a Protestant atheist disparity of cult, but you're not actually getting that.

You rather you're getting married on a beach somewhere, then this would be neither valid nor sacramental because it's in order for the bang on the table. Sorry. He bangs on the table. Sacramental of course It has to be valid. So I would I would say that if I love you so much, it's not a valid marriage, then I wouldn't attend it. And this is coming from somebody who has chosen not to attend a very close

family member's marriage because it wasn't valid. And that was very difficult decision. But I'm of the opinion that if I attend a marriage, especially in an official capacity, whether that be, I'm singing or my children are the ring bearers or I'm a good singer or something. I don't think people know that. If I'm doing that, then I'm saying with my presence, I agree that this thing is what you think it is.

And that seems to me to be bordering on bearing false witness So I personally wouldn't attend a non valid Marriage. Yeah, you ought not to Listen Catholics. You ought not to attend an invalid not a natural marriage You can attend that but not an invalid marriage and it hurts because it's probably your family members, but Christ loves you valid marriage and it hurts because it's probably your family members, but Christ loves you. I'm why hallelujah. Who's the best. If you start a YouTube channel, she'll moderate your channel as well. This woman,

she wanted me to tell Homer, she wanted me to say that she loves you and I said, tis, tis parasocial and she persisted. So I'm telling her now and she knows it's parasocial. What is her name? And she persisted. So I'm telling her now and she knows it's parasocial. What is her name? Hallelujah Haley Louie Haley Louie this one's for you. I also love you, but I still want to see other people namely my wife and kids Why is Catholic stuff you should know the best podcast and why does father John want to fight you? Oh

Okay, so this is the most Misunder misunderstood comment and actually I thought of it while we were talking. Okay. When the pre-sex abuse scandal was going on and I read every document of the, you know, the Pennsylvania grand jury report, all that stuff. Can we pause real quick? Please don't do that. Unless you have an incredibly strong stomach, like for everyone else out there probably don't what read those documents. Oh yeah. No, no, no, they're terrible. They're terrible.

And they're from the fifties and sixties that haven't happened in 20, 30 years. Anyway, so, um, I, uh, I made a comment that the one thing about celibacy that frightens me because so many priests are isolated, is you can't hide, and this is the comment that I was going to say earlier, you can't hide your faults from your wife. I mean, you can to a certain extent,

but you live together, you bump up against each other, your lives are the same. It's very difficult to hide your failings from the one you love. So they constantly brought up Bill Burr's line, why are we always working on me? Right? The priest can hide because he has two parishes and he's in an erectory all by himself. So my statement was this is the one I never meant to negate chastity celibacy, but it sounded

like apparently that I was saying those who are chased are more open to these kinds of faults and failings. Never meant that because I don't believe that at all. And then we should say it. Did he go off? So no, but at the seat conference where me and Luke had a joint podcast, that's where we hashed it out. So it's in one of those episodes there. Was it, but he threw his water ball at me. But um, in the podcast? Yeah, it was really fun as a joke ball at me. But, um. In the podcast? Yeah, it was really fun.

As a joke, as a joke. But, um, my, my whole thing was his community of priests is the remedy that I would, I would imply. Sum that up too, for people who don't know what that community is. Yeah, no, they live in community together as diocesan priests from seminary onward. Catholic armory, that's, you gotta be faithful to the two minutes if this is gonna work. community together as diocesan priests from seminary onward. I'm Catholic.

I'm Armory. That's the, you gotta be faithful to the two minutes if this is going to work. Catholic armory says the presence of pride and ego in being a public figure and how to combat those temptations. What good question. I just talked about that with my therapist yesterday. Yeah, no, I think I'm the most important person who's ever lived when I have a microphone I am I am incredibly arrogant. I go to confession literally every three weeks

One of the things I confess is my pride and my vanity There was a Something that happened Recently, I can't remember what it was It was a meeting of Catholic speakers Catholic Catholic evangelists, Catholic podcasters. And not only was I not involved, I wasn't even like considered. And I remember being so hurt. And I said this to the priest in confession and I, and I'm confessing it because I'm a completely self-centered, self-absorbed a-hole. And he said to me, a completely self-absorbed person would never

see that. What we said earlier, right? A bad dad doesn't know whether he's a bad. Yeah. A prideful man doesn't say, well, I'm being too prideful. He thinks, no, this is my rights. So are we asking that question? Yeah. I asked Christopher West this. I said, how does being in the public light like, how did you avoid

getting that messing you up? I asked him this about 10 years ago or something and before I had this had grown and he said, oh no, it will. It won't, it can't not. And so then what do you do with that? Yeah. I, I, I pray every day. Um, I w okay. Let's be honest. I pray maybe once a week for father Mike Schmitz because his popularity is so huge. And as a priest, I think about him. I honestly think about him every time I see his Instagram photos. No, every time. My fear is that he would ever. And I don't think he would, but, but fame is a goddess that dominates our souls. And my hope is he never, like everyone can have a bad day.

But man, that man is so good. It's easy to think about other people like Joe Biden. You think, gosh, just go fishing. Just go retire, go fishing, love your children, and repent, and then die. LR Mike says, should American Catholics give up their second amendment rights as one bishop has recently indicated. No, I don't think so.

I'm kind of on the, of the opinion that Americans citizens should be able to own everything the U S government should own if the ability like a howitzer. Yeah. Like a tank, a tank. Yep. All of it. I'm not there, but you should own a gun. Yeah. I don't think your second amendment right the vast okay Yes, there are more guns and owned by Americans and there are physical Americans But the vast majority of people who own guns do not commit violent crime with them

And those are used more often in defensive instances than in crimes. Hey, thank you Thursday for interrupting No, I was just kidding. And I can tell you that the people I associate with in the gun community, because I bought a gun and I'm scared of it, they are all in on helping you protect your family. Because if a gang of thugs come to your home, you're not gonna punch them all.

You could try. You could try and you'll be dead. Yeah, I would say saying you don't need a gun because you have the police is like saying you don't need a fire extinguisher because you have the, the fire brigade. Yeah. Yeah. I love living in this country. Again, I don't think it's the same way in Australia. They confiscated all of you. All of them. Yeah. All of them. So when the Australian government was throwing indigenous people who they

claimed to love in two concentration camps because of COVID, if they had guns, they probably wouldn't have done that. That happened by the way. It happened. All right. I don't know if it would have done that. And people say, Oh, I'm sorry, I got a tech nine. Yeah. You know, people say, well, you have no chance against the government. Don't be, don't kid yourself. You do until you don't. Have you not seen Red Dawn with Patrick Swayze? You have more of a chance.

Every time in the last century, a gorilla, a group of gorillas has gone to war with a major, with a major power. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to reset that two minutes because I really want your opinion on this. I'm going to ask you the question. Ready, set, Thursday. Should American Catholics give up the second amendment rights as one bishop has recently indicated? I'm not American. I'm in Canada and I think you would be crazy to give that up. No, I'm not with Matt on you should be able to own everything the government can own because the as the weapon becomes more dangerous, it becomes easier to be negligent with it

and harm people. But the fact of the matter is that the gun is an equalizer, the firearm is an equalizer, firearms are the best way to protect yourself and your family and your loved ones. And if you are in a dangerous area and you do not own a firearm, I'm not a father and I'm going to say this and if as you two as fathers can correct me if you have a family and you Live in a dangerous area and you don't have a firearm because you're scared of the firearm you need to man up and get your crap together because if you're in a dangerous area, there is a high likelihood you will need to use it and You should be able to use things to protect your family tools to protect your family

As a man who was threatened by a man who said, now I see where you live and I'm gonna kill you bitch. And he's a man whose brother murdered a bunch of people and he himself has is a part of a gang. I will say that the only thing that brought me a sense of security is the fact that I am trained in a weapon. Yes, also I will say that if you do own a firearm and you're not confident with it and you're not taking training, that is also an act of negligence and you should be trained with a weapon. Absolutely.

And every minor and child and person in the home where a firearm is needs to know to not touch it or needs to be trained on how to safely use it. If you have a child who you're not confident can safely use it, they need to know that they should never under any circumstances ever touch it or needs to be trained on how to safely use it. If you have a child who you're not confident can safely use it. They need to know that they should never under any circumstances ever touch it. It might be good if they don't even know where it is, honestly. But what do they think is like a water gun? That's a great caveat. There's a great answer. Thank you. That was great. Um, Sibyl of the, are you ready?

Sibyl of the rhyme says a few topic ideas. Hmm. Let's go with the Sibyl of the rhyme. That's probably not a real says a few topic ideas. Let's go with the Sybil of the rhyme. That's probably not a real name. That's awesome. But here she says, why are so many young people so lonely? The Internet. Next question. Yeah, no, no, there's a study. Nineteen ninety one to two thousand

and twenty one. The average was a 17 year old male has half the amount of friends that they previously did in my neighborhood that I, my first neighborhood that I moved to move into the woodlands area. No talking to them. Oh shoot. I'm talking to you. Gosh, I keep talking to that camera. Hey man, hey, God, you're so handsome. I'm running the timer by the way, one day. No, um, we were told that this is a neighborhood full of kids. The only time I see him is on Halloween

Never see them all the home school kids move to studentville. All the home school kids are outside Yeah, my kids. Okay, so there's there's none of that the current neighborhood that I live in basically the same thing What was the question again about why young people so lonely? We're lonely because we have world. So I'm, I mean, I'm not lonely at all. We have so many distractions that we can consume individually on our own. And then we're going to get the apple AR headset. We're going to put the apple vision pro on our head. It's going to be beautiful.

It's going to be beautiful. I'm going to look at Matt frat as if I'm in the studio, but Matt Fratt actually doesn't know me consuming everything individually. That's dangerous. Gosh. Aaron says, how do we remain open to and cooperate with continual conversion? Two things I would say. Number one, take a regular retreat.

I was just chatting with father Ken Barker, who's the founder of the missionaries of God's love in Australia, and he told me that every month the first thing he puts on his calendar are two days away where he can be with the Lord and pray in silence. And I thought, you know, I could actually do that. It's something I could do. And if I couldn't do it, I can at least do one day in a Pustinia up the road, which we have here. So I think that would be one thing is to take a retreat Second thing I would say is to read good spiritual literature

Either from the Saints or if you feel like you can't stomach that right now Like say Francis de Sales introduction to the devout life I would 100% recommend anybody should be able to read but if you can't read that reading some more modern faithful Catholic author and the third thing consider finding yourself a spiritual father or mother, or at least somebody more advanced in the spiritual life than you that you can meet with regularly to talk about your prayer life. What was the question again? How do we remain open to and cooperate with continual conversion? The other thing is the realization that as you step into different seasons of

life, life changes. So if you become, if you're single as a young adult and then you become married and then you become a father, that crap changes radically. And then your kids become older, that changes radically. And so the awareness of these different changes matters deeply. So your conversion means, um, this is what I've seen. So St. Anthony's great parish, huge congregation, a lot of great people. Um,

when men are faithful in their fifties and then they retire in their sixties with wealth, they often become unfaithful. Amble in the eye of the needle. Well, not just that, but, uh but life changed so dramatically that my support mechanisms, the ordering of my daily life is gone. And now I'm here with my wife who's kind of a stranger and I don't know how to deal. And so what ends up happening is if you don't lean into a framework, you fail.

Corey says praise and worship music, general opinion on it. When is it appropriate and when does it cross the line from useful to awful? So you've said some beautiful things, Goma, that I wish I was more sophisticated to kind of banter back and forth with. But I can't help but love praise and worship music. And and I'm always worried when people assure me how evil it is or how bad it is or how effeminate it is. I like listening to certain Hillsong songs. I'm sure I'd love listening to certain Bethel songs.

I find that it helps me just really kind of almost get out of my head, which is so analytical and philosophical in its reflections upon things, just to tell the Lord who he is and who I am before him. If that's what the praise and worship music does. Most absolutely cutting edge praise and worship music doesn't tell the Lord who he is, it tells the Lord what I'm doing with the Lord. I will always be faithful, I will always be true,

I will always love you. No, you won't. You're a terrible human person. Matt, let me take one example and see. The comments are saying talk about Bethel. Okay, Bethel. We'll get to that in a minute. That can be the next question. I'm drinking more alcohol.

Okay. Just go easy though, cause I'm afraid. No, you said the whole thing. All right. Listen, I love this song. What a beautiful name by Hillsong. A beautiful name. Yes. You are the word at the beginning, one with God, the Lord most high, your hidden glory and creation now revealed in you, our Christ. All right. How beautiful is that? You have no rival. You have no equal now and forever.

God, you reign. Yours is the kingdom. Yours is the glory. Yours is the name above all names. It's a glorious song. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Lyrics. Nothing. Use those in your prayer. Go to adoration. Sing them. Absolutely. That's awesome. But that seems Nothing. Lyrics. Nothing. Use those in your prayer. Go to adoration, sing them. Absolutely. That's awesome.

But that seems to be a cutting edge song. It's one of the biggest songs. Great, great, great, great. Awesome. Use those types of songs. Revelation song, Kari Job. Kari Job. Okay.

So what's the worst, worst Bethel song? I don't know. I don't know off the top of my head. All right. So we'll do Bethel in a second. We'll do that. We have eight seconds. Yeah, wrap it up.

Yeah. No, I listen to praise and worship all the time. You just up. Yeah, no, I listen to Praise and Worship all the time. You just stumble till the end here? I listen to Praise and Worship all the time. I love Praise and Worship music. That's really like pound whiskey. This isn't good optics. Time. Okay, next question.

Bethel. Tell me about Bethel. Bethel belongs to a branch of Pentecostal Christianity, wherein various people believe too stringently in the five leadership roles in the church. What is it? Prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher. Crap, I'm missing them all. And they are starting to introduce doctrines

that are antithetical to the Word of God. Don't do that. The best praise and worship music are praise and worship songs. Like I was saying, Cari Jacob draws a revelation song. You remember that? Sing it. No, it's like the honor and the glory and the praise. You know it, you know it.

As soon as you hear it, you'll be like, yeah girl, that's what I'm into. But don't hate praise and worship because it's not Catholic hymn. I had a friend of mine that said that. So if we care about the liturgy, should we not listen to praise and worship? The answer is religious music is not liturgical music or sacred music. Sacred music is derived from and returns to the liturgy.

Other music is totally good as long as it's true good and beautiful Yeah, draw from it use it I do all the time Somebody in the comments just said if Hill song is okay at mass then so is lecrae. Oh The craze so good at mass. No Yeah, yeah Love the great Harry Clon says favorite fiction book. You already know what mine is. So you go what? No, no, no. What's your favorite fiction book? Probably the brothers.

Dostoevsky. Probably. Dostoevsky. I got a picture of him in this other room. I love Dostoevsky. That's him there. Yeah. I got that. That was a great shot. No. Oh, gosh. Favorite fiction book. There's a new book that

and Calvin Robinson told me to read. I started reading it and absolutely loved it. What is it? Come on, come on, man. Since we're talking about fiction. While Matt thinks Robert Hugh Benson's book, Lord of the World. If you haven't read it. I'm in the middle of it. I'm on chapter six. Robert Hugh Benson, Lord of the World.

If you haven't read it, you need to. Yeah. Where is the original apocalyptic novel? Whose favorite book that is? Whose favorite fiction book? I think that's Pope Francis's. He Benson Lord of the world if you haven't read it you need to yeah where and Favorite fiction book I think that's Pope Francis's Yeah, Pope Francis favorite fiction book is Robert Hugh Benson his father was the Archbishop of Canterbury in the Anglican Church He converted to Catholicism and his father disowned him and his father disowned him. He wrote Lord of the world He also wrote friendship with Christ best book ever written on that But in terms of fiction, I love military hard science fiction

Yeah, so I got no room for y'all except for like shit like Columbus Day Series canticle of Lee Boyd canticle of Lee what's so good Really people don't realize that Lee what's so good. If you ever read it, really, people don't realize that Canticle Lee woods is actually a criticism of Catholicism, preserving the very knowledge that destroys humanity. Hey, cause he, yes, cause he committed suicide after he, well, after he wrote the book, but he bombed Monte casino and he realized in world war

two and he realized that it wasn't a hatred of Catholicism. I knew it was based on that. It was like a tail gunner that sighted it. Oh Can't you go for Leibowitz is incredible. It's either the greatest Catholic apologetic or Not really a denunciation of Catholicism, but because we embrace paragraph is insane. Yeah It's a If you spoil it, but it's it's Lucifer has fallen no Why no, it's not shake the dust from your feet. Oh I love the audio book of it is the one yeah

Perfect red so everybody go get candy believe it's apparently it's great All right favorite guilty sitcom like a sitcom that you probably shouldn't admit that you like but you can't help it like gosh I love Cheers Frazier and Seinfeld Frazier is really good. Frazier's so good Best episode his brother Niles, right? Remember him he goes Um, uh, my name is dr. Niles crane not Frazier. I'm his brother I'm a Jungian not a Freudian. So there'll be no blaming mommy today. I a Jungian, not a Freudian. So there'll be no blaming mommy today. I fricking lost it. I do.

You, I, all I knew of Freudian psychology was about blaming mom and dad. Perfect. One of my favorite new sitcoms that I've started watching is king of the hill. Um, King of the cartoon. Not a sitcom. Oh, so perfect. One of the best, I saw this meme, I said the best moment,

best comedic moment in all of television history is when Hank cannot open the lid of a, of a WD, what is it? What's that called? WD-40? And then so he pulls out a smaller WD-40 opens that and loosens it. He has a whole praise and worship episode. Did you know that? No, yes. The one where the preacher heals him. Uh, this either ruins rock and roll or ruins Christianity something like that Line is you're you're making you're making rock and roll and Christianity worse. I think Jeremy Barta the rumor is yeah that king of the hill guy who came up with it. Whatever his name is

Yeah, that king of the hill guy who came up with it. Whatever his name is Lived around the corner from Jimmy part his dad and his dad is Hank. I think that's amazing He's like these are four guys are just hanging out. The one of the best They were driving to Mexico. What's the son's name Bobby? Asks why there's such a big wall. It's like well son Millions of people want to come to this land of freedom, but, but we've decided we don't need that many. King of the Hills are great. It's phenomenal. It really is. Yeah. I, one, one show that I, I know it's problematic as all these things are,

but I just love is breaking bad. I'm, oh, I love love breaking bad question. That's not a sitcom. That's true. What is a sitcom situation? Comedy? Never knew that it stood for situation. You did not never knew until right now. Situation comedy. Yeah. You said, uh, Andy Griffith show. Mash is the best one. You guys missed mash. Do you really like until I want to take two minutes and talk about how Show mash one of the best one you guys miss mash mash mash Alan Alda took over it and ruined it but before that awesome. Yeah up to season like six It's amazing the series finale is the best thing to ever air on television enough. This is a real fact I've said this on the show before the series finale is the most watched by by

Ratio relative to population of the time television event in American history more than Dallas. Yes Yeah, it's 60% of American televisions. We're watching it New York City sewer system flooded Mash also people were pooping. Yeah No when they win the show when the credits rolled Right at the end. We're playing Angry Birds. No when they win the show, when the credits rolled. Wow. Yeah.

No, MASH established everything you think is great about a television today. All the things they use was originally done in MASH. Radar. Radar. Perfect. The end of season three. What a perfect character. The end of season three, Lieutenant Colonel Henry Banks plane went down in the Sea of Japan.

There weren't no survivors. Oh. everybody's plane went down in the sea of Japan. There weren't no survivors. Oh, Ryan G asks, is the DRA, Douay-Rheims, I presume, or Knox Bible, the better fancy translation for English speaking Catholics? I will just say that I want to like the Douay-Rheims. There were times that I would buy the Douay-Rheims, told myself I should like it, tried really hard the way someone might try to like mash, but't and stop pretending yeah if I'm after a fancy English version I would read the King James version with the apocrypha but I prefer the ESV or the ESC or the RSV yeah addition yeah people don't know you're a big fan of knocks what do you think first yeah Knox is more fancy the ESV is

A part of an interpretive tradition that comes from the King James The ESV is unique where the New Testament quotations from the Old Testament Regardless if they quote it wrong, they put the Old Testament whatever they translate in the Old Testament They put that in the New Testament. So that's part of the uniqueness of the ESV and the RSV. The ESV and the RSV, the standard, the S in standard, is the King James.

Did you know that? Yeah. So the Douay-Rheims exempts itself from that interpretive tradition. The Douay-Rheims American version's 18, I think, 99. And it's good, it's fine. But I prefer, I mean, I think 99 and it's good. It's fine. Um, but I prefer, I mean, I love it. I love, I love both of those. Um,

my go-to is the Ascension press version of the RSVCE2CE. Um, I like Carl Keating's answer to the question. What's the best Bible? He says the one you'll read. The one you'll read. Start there. Except for the NIB. Okay. Bible he says the one you'll read the one you'll start there except for the NAB okay we have one more question from our local supporters and then if y'all in YouTube wanna locals man so good send a question super chat if you want to ask super chat oh yeah I'm not above grifting if you super chat I'll take off my shirt he will not not true no no not true. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, movie, music, et cetera, consumption based on last week's pints live stream regarding the show. Mrs. Davis. I had a hard time making that take follow when later in the pints live stream music by bands with, to put it nicely, very rough and or crude.

Other songs were enjoyed freely. For quick example, Nickelback song photograph is below their other. The photograph. Such a good song. Oh, terrible. No, it's brilliant. Also related. So, okay. So I criticized. Miss Davis.

Yes, I just feel like that Amazon movie keep us all unpolluted from the world. Starting but he's starting. He started the time. Yes. And and and so there was a there was a prelate who suggested this is a great movie And yet in this movie you've got this nun who has a relationship with Jesus Like actual Jesus who lives in a store or something and Jesus tells her to get back with her old boyfriend Yeah, and I'm like why no no so I just feel like we have become polluted by the world and we try to watch these

shows and we try to justify the fornication and the pornographic content and the gratuitous violence and do you remember the most hate i've ever experienced by pints of the coin yes you're on my show justifying game of thrones and the hardcore pornography i remember what was this guy's name what's his name kevin kevin here's the deal. This is what I've discerned through my 41 years of consuming media non-stop, cause I'm a chubby man who sits in front of a television.

You will never miss anything. Like the media, oh, did you watch the last episode of Cheers? No, I didn't. Your life is not impoverished. My wife is obsessed with NASCAR. Do you like NASCAR? No, I didn't. Your life is not impoverished. Did you? My wife is obsessed with NASCAR. Do you like NASCAR? No, no, no. I'm open to liking it. Actually my wife can get anyone to like NASCAR, including this guy. Is she from Indy? Does she drink Bud Light? Indy? No, she's from St. Louis.

Where the players play. Uh, here's the deal. You will never miss it. That that's the thing about pop culture is it appeals to either right now, a point in time or a passion of your sensitive appetite. You're in, you're never going to miss it. And that's the thing that most people don't understand. Oh, if I'm not cute in, keyed in LinkedIn, none of that matters. If you don't watch Breaking Bad, like this weirdo watches instead of Game of Thrones. Uh, no, no. If you don't watch this stuff, your life is not impoverished.

So go to the things like Exodus 90 says I'm the edify. Uh, Kyle Whittington just sent us $20 and said take it off now I literally put that pullover on because I'm nipping. Bo. He said, is it with my nipples? That wears you, but with your nipples. I hope we get up to this soon so we can both watch you take this shirt off. Here we go. What is that, like a 12 second delay?

I don't know how it will end. This is brilliant. There it is. I'm going to pull it down. All right, so give us another 20 bucks and the shirt will come off. Give us another 20 bucks. Oh crap. No 20 bucks. All right, here we go. Since you Z Z Z probably not their real name. I'm back. Says since you guys are a happy bunch,

I'd like to ask you how to deal with scrupulosity and accept my misery with happiness. Okay. Can I start? Okay. Scrupulosity. Okay. Number one, you need to take that to a fricking medical hell, a mental health professional, because sometimes scrupulosity is actually not scrupulosity. It's disguised as OCD or or disguised as scrupulosity, but it is OCD.

You need to understand the difference between a spiritual problem and a mental health or emotional health problem, okay, that's number one. Number two, honestly, the sure guide of the church of what is and is not sin, what is and is not healthy, what is and is not building you up into goodness, that is what you need to lean into. Okay, what was the question again? There was something at the end that triggered me. And accept my misery with happiness. Okay, bull crap. Do you think Jesus

Christ died on a cross and rose from the dead so that you would be miserable but with happiness? You can accept suffering through the uniqueness of Jesus Christ and His grace that He gives you. So, if you think about it, my physical suffering, my mental suffering, whatever emotional suffering, it's part of the sensitive appetite. You can still have joy within them. But Jesus Christ does not give you the grace towards happiness and union with Him forever so that you can become quarantined within this understanding of, well, my life is just supposed to be terrible forever. That's not true.

Woo. What I would encourage you to do is to seek after a honestly, a solid spiritual director. Solid spiritual director who can help you navigate this stuff. Cause some of it, some of the depression is caused by your own sin, right? Have you ever committed a sin and you felt like crap? Yeah, okay some of it is because is because of your own recursive thoughts that you just need

honestly, like cognitive behavioral therapy to like Go beyond these are my thoughts, but my thoughts are not me Some of them are because of your circumstances, whatever it might be. But Robert Hughes Benson, the guy that we've been talking about, he goes through and talks about these things specifically. I'm sorry. No, you gotta shut up. Don't that matter? No, no, your soul is in luck.

Christ does not want you to be left in cynicism. He doesn't. All right. He doesn't. Okay. Now I'm just scrolling into the questions here. All locals. No, now that was all. Oh, now it's paid. Now. Now it's just the riff raff. You want to send us money. It will say your name should start an only fans. No, it depends what you're going to do on it. I'm just going to talk about it. Doesn't depend on what you're going to do on it. I'm just going to talk about Christ. No, it doesn't depend on what you're going to do on it. I'm going to talk about Christ. People will still have to go to the website. Yeah, I've never, I've never, I didn't even really know what it was. And then I was selling

shirts on Teespring and in the backend, they enable you to kind of link your account. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't. Yeah. Man, it's bad. Uh, man. It's bad Okay, Matt you would make a killing Matt look at me look at me now Okay, it was just disappointing says gangery. No, it's fine that don't that's not about this I'm watching the chat that was totally off. What is about? father Mike Schmitz and Tim.

It was just disappointing vid in which father Mike tried not to boldly teach the church is teaching about man being head of the household and woman owing obedience. Yes. Can we talk about that? It was, it was, and then Tim responded. What do you say? Oh, Tim's here. No, I made a response video. I don't know. I'm watching the chat. They're arguing about it. Okay. Well, I'm not, I have you ever disciplined your wife? Have you ever said, you don't submit to my authority? I'm going to discipline you. No, no. I had a woman who is one of the most faithful Catholics I've ever met said, a group of her men that are traditional Catholics,

this isn't my problem, have told her that a man is the head of the house, the husband is the head of the house, and he can discipline his wife, discipline his wife, including locking her in a closet or room until she's a man. And I'm saying that and I'm listening to her, and I'm like, my jaw's getting lower and lower.

She's like, what? And I was like, a thousand years. She was locked in a closet by her husband? No, no, no, no, no, no, but these guys, these young adults who have never been married or ones newly married, they're like, we're, you know, like this is what it means to be a man. I was like, no, no, no. In Ephesians chapter five, it says it says, uh, be subordinated

or, uh, what's the phrase? Yeah. Be subordinated, submissive to one another as, um, be subordinated, submissive to one another. And then in the next verse it says wives be, and in the Greek, the verb is missing because it's referencing the previous verse, right? The previous verb to your husbands as crisis of the Lord husbands love your wives and we all know this but she literally there there's so many traditionalist communities where husbands gravitate to not their leadership in charity but domination in Genesis 3 style. And she was telling me this, and I thought it was a joke at first, like, no one really thinks this way. And she's like, no, he literally

said to me, husbands should discipline their wives until they come to reverence their husband as Christ. And I was like, holy crap. But wouldn't you realize, obviously, that the abuse of something doesn't negate the proper use of something? And so we can look at terrible examples like this, and we can look at how men would misuse their power and their lusts to mistreat someone that they're being called to die for. And that then makes us allergic to what's very clear in Scripture that wives ought to submit to their husbands.

Yeah, but most people who are justifying their own tyranny won't do that. I'm going to make this two minutes longer. Keep going. Yeah, but most people who want to justify their own tyranny, their own domination, won't do that. They'll say, well, this is how I love my wife. Right. So this is how I love my wife.

Hey, I love my wife. This is how I love my wife. But then, yeah, a hundred percent. But then the problem isn't with the scripture or with what the saints have taught about why a wife sought to be submissive. I would say that I've actually changed my opinion somewhat on this through listening to some of the things Tim has said. Tim Gordon, Gordon and his wife. Go ask your husband on Twitter. Yeah, because I these are difficult topics to discuss and they're difficult because

we live in a day and age where we actually don't know what a man is, what a woman is, Matt Walsh's documentary, what marriage is, or even really what sex is. When you've got that much out of whack and then you try to understand what St. Paul must mean when he talks about these things, what's more likely that our modern Christian sages have got it wrong or that the saints of the church have got it wrong? And so I have the opinion that if the scriptures clearly teach that a woman ought to submit to her husband and then you have that backed up by people like St. John Chrysostom, Thomas Aquinas, and you could go on and on, then what we ought to be doing is listening

to them, even if it, I don't know what Father Mike Schmitz said. Luke is in the comments now, I'm going to tell him to go away. Even if it contradicts what more modern Christian authors have said. What if what modern Christian authors have said is a fruition of the thought of, like, we've, we've, the fruition can't contradict the root though. Right, right, right. So my wife is submissive to me,

but my leadership role is also in, in mutual submission, right? Which is verse 21 of chapter five, right? So Ephesians chapter five, verse 21 is mutual submission. Then wise be submissive to your husbands as crisis to the Lord or as the church is the Lord. I'm okay trying to understand that as long as you're not trying to say that you are not the head of your house. No, I'm the head of my house. Right. Good.

Because if you try to tell me that there's a mutual submission taking place in the way that that sounds to most people, it sounds like you're saying there are actually two heads on this body. Right. But the problem is most men are lever most traditionalist men are leveraging that verse to dominate. I don't know if that's true. I don't know. Let me rephrase it.

There are some men in traditionalist circles who are leveraging that and other verses to dominate women in the sense of telling them what they should do, what they should wear, what they should everything. And I'm, and when I was talking to this woman who was totally abused by her father, sexually, physically, verbally, all that stuff. And then on top of that, it's trying to like, she earnestly desires like, what does the Lord want for marriage? And then she's hearing these young men be like, yeah man, a woman ought to do whatever her husband says.

She ought to submit to him. And so what I said to her is, yeah, as Christ loves the church and gave himself up for her. So his realm, his dominion of leadership is always Christological, which means in service of the good of the other. So he's not dominating her, which is a consequence of the fall, that JP two and theology, the body clearly. Well, not just them, but go back to Chris system who was what a fourth century

monk and Bishop. He has the most beautiful things to say on Ephesians five. Um, I haven't read that. Oh, it's so beautiful. Just give me one. Well, he'll say to a woman like, do not stubbornly contradict your husband. Oh, yeah. Do not seek to be the head of the house. Can I tell you the most beautiful thing? Let me finish that. Oh, we're going to put fingers up. We're going to finger. Then he says,

but then he says to the husband, he says a great deal to the husband too, and maybe it's that both need to be held in unison. If the husband was more interested in the verse that told him to love his bride, as Christ loved the church, and the woman was more interested in learning to submit to her husband, then maybe you've got a good unity. But when you've got two selfish people pointing to what the other person ought to be doing instead of fulfilling their own thing, then maybe that's where some of the problem arises.

One more thing, Chrysostom says to the man, you say to me, he's talking to the man, you said, what if she abuses me? What if she disrespects me? And he says something to the effect of, okay, nevermind, do your duty. Love her as Christ loves the church. And Christ did not seek to dominate the bride but some, you know, the sacrifice himself to bring her over. Okay.

So I just think that I want to there a difference between submit and obey people are now this is where the comments are. Obey. Is there a difference between wives submit and wives obey? Submission is anything I has anything I've said right now caused you to think oh he's off that's wrong. I disagree with that Yeah, no my Here's a thing to submit a banister. Yeah, think about your relationship practically with your wife

Everything with my wife. This is a conversation I have with this woman everything with my wife, this is a conversation I have with this woman, there's only been one time in my entire relationship, maybe two, where me and my wife were at such loggerheads that I said, no, this is what it has to be. One was when my wife was going out of town for the first time, she handed me a list of things to do for the kids. And I took that list and I set it down. Number one, she makes lists and that's beautiful. And I don't. And I said, I'm their father. I know how to love them. And I put that down. And she said that was the most healing moment. One of the most healing moments of her maternity, right?

The other was when I said we're going to my parents' house because this guy's going to fricking kill me with the next door neighbor. Right. And she's like, I don't want to go. No. But what she didn't know was the, my, my neighbor, the wife had said to me he's not allowed to come by and seven times he drove by and every time I heard a diesel truck, cause I was the truck he drove, I heard he's I went like, I'm like freaking out. So I told my wife, I was like, I need to get out of here with my kids to make sure he doesn't kill us all. And she said, no, it's not going to happen. That's not going to happen.

But then we go to my parents' house and my parents made it awful because the bed that two of my kids are going to sleep on had a pee stain. Whoopsie. My nephew's there and didn't tell anyone. And then it was like broken glass. It was awful. And my wife was like, see, but here's the deal. I slept that night and they all slept that night and no one was going to hurt my family, my wife, my kids, me, anyone. Yeah. So the point is you've rarely come to loggerheads. We've had to very rarely because I love her as Christ loves the church. There's not a single person on the, in this world. I think of all my best friends that I love.

I don't love them the way that I love my wife. I mean, Shannon is, I remember when I broke up with Shannon and now I was thinking like, Oh, that's the dumbest thing I've ever done before we got married. I was like, she's perfect in every way for me. And I just, I yeah, there is nothing, there is nothing that I would ever do to interrupt that and she knows that So her submission to me is because I love her her this woman who was talking to me her experience

Prior was her father wanted to dominate her mother and that that's a totally different worldview Absolutely, I agree with you. Of course. I think that, uh, I think what happens is when you think of these ex not just extremes, maybe they're less extreme than I think, maybe they're more, uh, numerous than I imagine. Um, we don't want that to then overshadow what's clearly taught in scripture. And that's true of anything. Like give to the poor, this give to anyone who begs of you. And then you can come up with 100 reasons as to why this person might be using his money for this or that. It's like, yeah, but the scripture says this.

So what am I going to do when this homeless person on 4th Street here in student will ask me for money? Am I going to rationalize that or say that I now know more or that I'm not now, you know? What are you doing there? What do I do? What do I do? What should I do? What do you do? Well, I'll give you one example. I just had a fellow the other day offer to sell me his sunglasses. I don't know if you've met this guy. Apparently he's done this to multiple people. They're not good sunglasses. Gas station sunglasses. Give me a description. Gas station sunglasses. Give me a description. Bolding gray hair, somewhat tan, surprisingly tanned. Very skinny, older. Older, yep, skinny.

And he offered to sell me paintings before. Really? Did you buy that? That's not Gary, is it? Gary's the guy who always wants money. Gary's the painting guy. OK. Yeah. But I offered to buy him a meal. I said, no, I don't want to buy you glasses, but I can get you a meal. Oh, no, that's OK. All right. Well, because I can get you a meal. He's like, ah, no, that's okay. All right, well.

Because he doesn't want a meal. So if I give you money and said, hey, can I buy you drugs? That's horrible. I would never do that. So the idea, the thing that people need the most who are homeless is you. Your love, your presence, right? So when they ask you for money, what they really need is you. Amen. I want to get back to the wife submit thing again, just just real briefly,

because I share your concern that saying something like that could lead an either an immature or a lustful man to abuse his wife, either emotionally or physically, which is disgusting and not to be condemned fully. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I share that concern.

I share that concern as we all seek to try to, okay, because it's like I've used this example a bunch. This should be on the pints with Aquinas bingo card. Once upon a time I was in Houston. My wife was chatting with friends. I sat out the front and I was talking to a guy and we chatted for about half an hour and I gradually realized that he was completely pissed drunk and that then caused me to rethink all the things he had said up until the time I realized he was drunk. pissed, drunk, has no idea what it's talking about, doesn't understand marriage, women, men, sex, God, any of it. And now I'm like, Oh God, then what thoughts and what ideas have I imbibed over the

last 30 years that I now need to throw out? So I think as we collectively as Christians try to get back to what the scriptures and the church fathers and the saints have said about the beautiful sacrament of marriage and the goodness of women and men, that there's going to be some awkwardness in that because we're going to try to maybe grasp things that we're wrong about, but we're very passionate about because everything else is chaotic and insane. But yeah. So, okay. Proverbs 31, right? Which is the only part of the Bible written by a woman is written by the queen mother. What makes a good wife real quickly someone just say go Luke

what that was me Luke's in the comments I love Luke said you're Luke yeah what he said when I earlier said I ever say my canasta glasses on her when I said Luke's here I'm gonna time to go away that's what I was talking about yeah don't say that to Luke Luke like, has a sensitive heart and cannot bear. Go away, Matt. Oh. Go away, Matt. So he said,

I'm not sure it's the modern craziness over gender that distorts and makes Ephesians five hard. I think it's how techne distorts it. Luke with his techne. Which is genius. Luke, well played. That's amazing. No, okay, let's look at the technique, okay?

Honestly, let's take 30 seconds to look at the technique. And power, which is true actually. And power. Before you do power, let me say, the way people view submission is distorted by the way people view government. Yeah. And the way the church is historically taught. What is he, a freaking libertarian? No, that's an insult.

I'm just kidding, clearly. Libertarianism is a far left ideology. You'd be gone for over four hours. Yeah, by the way. Four-ish. The way people view submission is distorted by the way people view government, and the government, the church is historically- The way people view power.

The way people view power and submission is distorted by the way the government, the church is historically- The way people view power. The way people view power and submission is distorted by the way the government they live in. And all of the governments we live in today are liberal in the way that is very much condemned in quadragesimo anno. Quadragesimo anno. So let me say this about techne women. Explain what is meant by that as you-

Techne, meaning technology, practice, you know all of those things that Interrupt meaning for the sake of efficiency. Okay. Here's here's the uniqueness Matt. I want your eyes on me No, I want the glasses on you. I want the glasses on because you're so handsome When women Can compete with men outside the factory in the corporate office with power tools in the trades, right? So we've effectively doubled the workforce. We've effectively doubled by adding women. Um, what happens to the male female relationship when women are more in

college and more in corporate positions. So yes, the tech name has what is meant by tech name. Technological reality. Okay. So efficiency, you know, all the revolution. Yeah. Okay. Just efficiency, you know, all the things. Post industrial revolution? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, just take that. Corporatization. All right.

So a woman can be a lawyer, every bit as much as a man. You don't need balls to be a lawyer. You don't need balls to be a CEO or anything like that. And so you have this prominence within feminism of emphasizing, and this is what I got in trouble for. I was overemphasizing the corporate white collar work over the blue collar work. And that's what my friend of I, a fan of the show, uh, Rebecca was saying, Hey,

women are also being called on and need parody with the construction and trades and stuff. But think about that. Like women entering the workforce en masse and how women earning the same as men, how that affects the dynamic. A hundred percent. Yes. Yeah, of course. So, but, but the, the thing is when you look at proverbs 31, that's what I wanted to go to. You open your book. Yeah. And this is what I responded to Timothy Gordon and his wife about maybe three years ago, which is, Oh look, proverbs 31 describes a woman at work who sells stuff in the marketplace.

What's the verse 31? No, the whole proverbs 31 because I don't know the verse is written by the queen mother. All right. And it's, this is the, the women have proven worth, right? Uh, maybe skip down a verse 20. She opens her arms to the poor. That's not what you want to keep her, but like the vibe of the thing is the whole thing. And it sends her hands to the needy. When it snows, she has no fear for her household for all of them are clothed in scarlet. She makes coverings for bed. You didn't mean 20.

Her husband is respected at the city gate. There's a lot of stuff there. You know what? No, she talks about like, she makes linen garments and sells them and supplies merchants with sashes. She has clove with strength and dignity. What verse is that? That's 24. Yeah. And then it goes on. Many of the women have proven worth,

but you have excelled them all. What's the problem? How is that? But here's the deal. What is the woman doing? She's working in the home and she's selling her goods in the marketplace. Okay.

The vast majority of the human race until the industrial revolution were farmers or merchants whose home was above the shop. Yeah. And their whole family was involved in the work of the farm or the or the mercantile operation. Right. And this is the thing, even in ancient times, the woman, like have you ever heard of a spinster, The unmarried? Well they literally spun. They took the cloth from the sheep, the sheared sheep, and they made different garments

because garments were very expensive. And here she is spinning these garments, making this home spun, selling it in the marketplace, blah, blah, blah. The question becomes what is the role of the woman, what is the role of the man in the marketplace? And post industrial revolution, that answer was men only, because with the industrial revolution,

it was men leaving their homes, journeying five, 10, 15 miles to the factory and producing arduous goods, right? And human capital intensive labor to produce these goods. And the women were at home managing the kids. That became the paradigm of what we call traditional family. But before, like a farm, women, children, and husband all worked the farm.

When you had, like, have you ever been to a CC? Yeah, a long time ago, 2000. So I remember anything you're about to say 2004. But you remember walking through the streets, there's the shops. And then above it is where the family lives. Yeah. That's all medieval villages. You can trace that from a CC to Beijing to Mesoamerica, but whatever the automobile, wherever there's a urban environment, there's, there's two classifications. Suburban is a modern invention before the automobile. Yeah, wherever there's a urban environment There's there's two classifications suburban is a modern invention of the automobile. There's urban and there's rural rural is the farm which 98 percent of all human beings were a part of

2% were part of urban urban was shop down bottom family up top The entire family was involved in the production of what was sold down bottom, right? In the shop area, the entire family was involved in the farm. You think women didn't milk cows or plow fields or, or of course, like, but who's saying they didn't like, but that's the problem. When you say women aren't allowed to be in the workplace. You must have a man in the workplace and a woman who's at home.

The man's workplace was the home for literally thousands of years until 1850. So for Timothy Gordon to absolutize the 1850s, 1890s, 1920s home is an absurdity. All right, well. Can we, can I ask if there's a difference? It sounds like you're saying there's a difference in degree and I'm not sure it might be a difference in quality, in kind, sorry. I think it might be a difference in kind, honestly.

Because she's participating in his work, right? Like they're participating in work together. What do you think is happening when a woman milks a cow at six o'clock in the morning and she's like well Thank god my husband warmed up the teats They're all They're cooperating in the same work in the same place is in the home in the same Yeah

The father's place is in the home too until the Industrial Revolution where the which factory was man Right and then you have structures of sin and John Paul the second and sent has no no, but then you have corporations and structures of sin and John Paul the second Downtown we live in the suburbs we commute downtown Well, then then post World War two or during World War two and then afterwards, Rosie the Riveter and all that women started participating in the workforce. Women have always participated in the workforce. It was different in modality because now we have a hyper factory oriented or corporate oriented system. But prior to that, like,

when people say women shouldn't work, they yoke to the home and they should only take care of kids. They've never only taken care of kids in a traditional home. Okay. Why am I yelling at you, Matt? I love you. I kiss your forehead. Honest question, though, but is anybody saying those things that you're saying? I tweeted that at him. He is not that extreme. I don't know if he's that extreme currently. I have heard him say things that doesn't his wife, if they were on the podcast, that's him. He, he is not that extreme. I don't know if he's that extreme currently. I have heard him say things that doesn't his wife, they were on the podcast. That's work. Yeah. So I don't know

if he would say it that extreme. I think what he, if he thinks that I love that, some of the things I think that if he doesn't understand that some of the things he said could be interpreted in that way, he's being purpose. he's being willfully naive maybe. I don't want to say willfully because that implies a culpability. I think it's naive of him. If what you just said isn't, if he doesn't acknowledge that what you just said

is how people hear him sometimes, I think that's a little naive of him. Thursday, are we fighting right now? No, I'm trying to agree with you without making Tim mad because I learned the hard way recently that whatever I say on the show Whoever I say it about it's a message of me saying it. Oh you think yeah Do you think I don't think I don't know yeah much about him

I'm watching some but I don't think he would disagree with anything you just said. So but but maybe my response originally was to him and his wife. OK, this is like three years ago when they started publishing the book, the book, the book, which apparently his wife published. Right. That's what I'm saying. It was not saying any they published, there was a book. There was a book that was published. Okay, I don't know. What book was it?

There was allegations. But I'm not addressing the allegations. I will tell you later. Okay. For legal. His brother wrote the book. Allegedly. Allegedly.

Please don't sue us, Tim. Yeah. No, but that's what I'm saying is, there was this fervor at the time. I don't know anything about, yeah. I will tell you later. There was a book. It's so beautiful and naive. No, but here's my deal. There's so many people doing so many things or so many controversies.

And this goes back to your original question. Why are Catholics so divided? We began the show. Yeah. Catholic Republic. Do you want to wrap up that thought or should we? You know what? Here's the thought. I don't, I do know that there are women who desire to work and that might be because of our modern world and it's in positions on women in their formation. I know many women who love their children,

love their families and desire to work still and I don't think Now my family's not that way my wife desired to be at home with the kids so My problem becomes when we absolutize one over the other but I do think one is better than the other Well, what's the better the better than the other. What's the better? The better is the wife at home with the kids because this husband be a piece of shit with his kids and they need the nurture rather than the asshole.

Dear Lord help us. Is Luke still in the comments? Yeah, he's still here. I just want to say, Luke, you're one of my favorite people. I don't even know Luke that well. You like Luke more than me Do you say that you know that's not true at all. It's kind of no it's not true. I'm not lying. It's not true It's just that I feel like whenever Luke speaks. I'm like I get that like I feel more Yeah, whenever Luke speaks. I don't get it. Yeah, whenever I edit the podcast. I'm like shit. He's kind of. Yeah. I don't know what emotional intelligence means and it might be completely BS, but like if it means anything, I think Luke has it because Luke is incredibly

insightful and intelligent, but doesn't necessarily speak and think in the way you do. I had a friend who said Luke is the most intuitive man I've ever met. He gropes in the darkness and finds the truth more than and groups other people. And I just hope I'm one of them, but Luke gropes in the darkness and finds the truth intuitively. Hi locals. We are live to everyone.

Oh, this is also YouTube. I hope my wife is still watching. Hi Shannon. Can I, did you ever tell our fans what's happening in my house? No, go for it. We had... You had a tree. Is this how your neighbors are gonna find out? More intense than a hurricane, we had a winds that hit my house within the span of 10 minutes and took down the biggest tree, which was five stories tall, the biggest tree in my backyard. I'm sorry. Cause you're a monster and it fell on my elderly neighbor's house.

Do you feel like a piece of shit now who fixed their roof two weeks ago? Who's husband died a month ago and it crushed my wife. I w I didn't know until I was on the plane today, it crushed half of their house, my tree. This isn't the same woman whose ex-husband tried to kill her, is it? No, totally different. I moved out of that neighborhood.

Oh, did you? Closer to Precentage. You're not in that same place. No. Where I used to visit you. Don't tell people where you live. Holy Thursday. I'm not, I'm not.

Holy Thursday of last year. That's what we'll call him when he's a saint. 2022. I moved close to the, in the middle of between presentation and St. Anthony's. Okay. And now I'm an ordinary boy. Oh, so you're closer to Houston.

You're in Houston. No. In Walton ham was the first church. No, you know, you weren't following along. Walton ham was the first church, but then they opened a second church up in the Woodlands area. Okay. You still love the Woodlands? Yeah.

So how does someone like you who hates the suburbs so much sees what's desperately wrong with how they're all laid out, et cetera, remain there? Because I invite people to my home because that's where the majority of human flesh is. I invite them to my home. I love them. Yeah. Yeah. Here's the deal. The suburbs are alienating because they are no longer dense enough for human beings to interact. And so I find all thanks be to God for the parish. I find them at the parish and I invite them to my house.

I'm telling you every Roman Catholic who takes their faith seriously needs to start inviting people to their own. Hey, dude, we do that I know stoops. I know doobie boobs as I like to call it Wrong to Come on first stage. You just got one more here, please don't know Love you, which is why I think I love you. It was just why I think It's just liquid Bob Lesniewski built this table for you on someone. Yeah, but the table is buckling Can I tell you why? Yeah, why because right here in the woodwork a while ago?

Still in this is called the breadboard. Okay, that's called a breadboard. Okay, the horizontal pieces that butt up There's humidity that affects organic material and That and these areas of dips and and bumps are because he didn't create a place for expansion There's Bob's fault. I think No, Bob's a monster He did something he made it look rough on purpose, but that he obviously wouldn't want to happen. Next question. If you want to see another podcast table, I built a podcast table.

The new polity podcasts on actually you did. Yeah. Did you put an expansion born? Yeah. It's got a, it's a, it's, it's a black walnut. Hey, do you feel like Thursday is trying to take over pints with the client catching foxes just said do not engage him about wood It was black walnut from rough sawn boards and I glued him up I do think so and then I put cherry on the end Cherry yeah, not black walnut Offensive it's offensive Moses would be so pissy mixed lumber. Well, my friends, this has been just a delight. Go, my it's nice. It's nice to have conversations that actually conversations. Hey, were you sad that I didn't preach anything? How good is that? How good is that face? Oh my God. You are so handsome. Do you understand how handsome you are? I don't. My wife keeps trying to tell me every morning. You should. Gosh. Imagine waking up next to Matt Frath.

So she saw I let her out of the closet. Say it again. Mean it this time. Say it with feeling. I let her out. Oh bless your heart. But no, this has been fun. This is a great... Hey, can I ask you, when are you going to talk about Aquinas again? Um...

Come on. I don't know if I will. Can you tell your audience when... who was the person you talked to... Aww, let's do it. Who was the person you talked to when you were at Holy Apostles... This is our point start, everybody. ...and you said, how do I start a podcast? Who did you call? Let's do that again?

It's a great way. It's like if if If you want to if I'm interrupting you and you want me listening you just the words go louder Ask me that again all interrupt and you go louder ready Matt let me ask you a question. Oh, yeah Exactly like that. What is the, when did you decide to start pints with Aquinas and who did you call? I was inspired by catching foxes. 100%. 100%.

Were you really? I think so. No, I know. So when I started pints with Aquinas, there was, I could probably name five Catholic podcasts. Maybe not even that. Here we go. Catching foxes.

That's it. Catholic, uh, Catholic stuff. You should know Mark hearts Sunday, Sunday, Sunday podcast. That was so good, right? He's so good. He's so good, but I don't know what else I could talk about. What else? Three Catholic answer stuff. Yeah. Was that a podcast? What does size? I kill it. That was Patrick Coffin. When you would have started. Don't mention him. Cy is the nicest person on the face of the earth. He's probably fine. Okay. So those are the three that I could think of.

And I'm like, I want to do a podcast. So I call you. You did. And I said, what equipment do I need? You take over the conversation. And it's St. Louis at my wife's parents' house in the middle of snow on the conversation. And it's St. Louis at my wife's parents' house in the middle of snow on the ground. I paced for 30 minutes outside on their driveway. Okay, now I know the Hile PR 40 is really good,

but it's expensive. But you know what? Maybe you should start with that. You're like, I don't know, but maybe the Showa mate. And I was like, okay, but I use the Shora beta. And we talked through the whole thing and then in one month in one month you had to earn more than catching foxes. Oh yes. Because pints of the Aquinas resonated with human persons. I tell you, I called my friend Todd. I was trying to think of a name. I've told you this already. I'm like, what name should I think of? I'm thinking about Aquinas. I want to cut it because he's got so much, you know, you can always draw from him. And he said, what about the Aquinas return?

Like it was a really good idea. And I'm like, what do you mean? It's like in tennis, you hit a ball to him and Aquinas returns it. So I hung up on him and I've never spoken to him since the worst name I've ever thought of. I went to his house and I beat him up in the middle of the night. But what I've always liked is that Latin phrase in vino veritas, where there is wine, there is truth. Yeah.

Drunkenness clearly a sin. But chatting with people at pubs who want to tell you, I want to ask you, why doesn't my daughter talk to me anymore? What should I do with my life? Or why does my wife hate me? Read the summa. And then you just but then you get in. So the idea originally was just to bring the,

there's no way people are still watching this show. People are watching. There's no, okay. Here's a true question and don't lie, cause lying is a sin. Is there anybody watching this right now who has watched from the beginning? I don't think that's possible.

Haley. Haley. Does that woman have a life? Haley, I don't know if you have a life. Is she locked in a closet? She has wifi in the closet. There's bless her. He forgot to take her phone away before he put her in the closet.

We've got to stop joking about this. Don't do it. It's wrong. But yeah, I'm so grateful for you doing that, for helping me with that. That was such a fun time, eh? Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey, bro. Were you talking American accent for me? Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, bro. Were you talking American accent for me? Hey, bro Yeah points of the guy but what was funny is I was working doing anti-poor Well, I'm not gonna talk in American accent. I heard him and I'm not gonna do it This is what I have to deal with

I'm an elite podcast and this is what I have to deal with you ready for this Yeah, I helped him start up this multi-million dollar empire He made more money in three months on patreon that I had made in all of catch it because he fulfilled with the patrons actually We're about to buy a building I Thursday was something you're buying a building buying a building and We're gonna create some studio spaces. Are you gonna move this over there? Yeah, we're gonna have to I can't keep paying for this and buy A friggin building. I know you don't want all the poop in the stalls for the other female guests. It's very important

It's very peep. This is what I know about women. I don't know much but this is what I know Women hate men's poop in their toilets, floating like I saw today. It's shameful, it's gregarious, and you need to buy an entire building in order to make it happen. I'm crying. We actually should have a female toilet,

which you or I never go into Thursday. I was joking, because there there such a lavish building? And even though I hire other people around the country, Thursday is the only one who lives here. And so we joked about turning this whole section into like a Google type space. So he comes in the morning, breakfast is served. He's got like Froot Loops, stands and bean bags. It's just a corn hole board and like, like food spot, everything. There's nobody else for me to play with because I'm the only one who works there.

Cause you're all alone. Somebody walks in and they feel like this huge operation. Where does your assistant live? She lives in Arizona. She's not an assistant. She's a business manager. She is not, dude. She's the manager. She runs this show. We worked for her. Melanie?

No, she's unreal. Melanie? Yeah, we work for her. We work for her. Absolutely. Melanie? No, she's unreal. Melanie? Yeah, we work for Melanie. She's a good person. All right. This has been Pines with Aquinas. Dude, it's four hours and 29 minutes. You can go to Pines with Aquinas www.Pineswithaquinas.org.

You can go. You can go. Just put it on whatever both of us, while you pee. Just mind the nuggets. You're not hungry. Have you heard any good jokes lately? Yes knock knock who's there? Wait, I screwed up already Hey hey Matt

Shit I'm forgetting it okay Do you hear what happened? Do you hear what happened to the cross-eyed? Stop it To the cross-eyed circumciser. Oh my god. Did you hear what happened to the cross-eyed circumcised? I don't know he got sacked You know why you should love that? Have you ever heard of, oh gosh, what is it called?

All the chocolates, love the chocolates? There's an Australian YouTube channel where they do nothing but dad jokes. Oh really? Yeah, and it is hysterical, wildly inappropriate, but that's where I heard that. Oh my God, I hear that. Australian jokes are great.

Did you hear that Jew joke I told Dennis Prager? I did. That was a good joke. It was a good joke. Can I tell you the Jerry that? That Jew joke I told Dennis Prager. I did. That was a good joke. It was a good joke. Can I tell you the Jerry Seinfeld Jew joke? Yes, I know it. But tell one of the great. You know what?

I think I do, because I've heard him tell the joke and then. Norm MacDonald. Yes, that's right. And then say to the. The guy who should have known. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gone. He's a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah's the joke. I got two due jokes to tell you, but before I tell you, we're going to cut the stream. So thank you everybody for being here.

God bless you. Please subscribe. Please like, please follow catching foxes. Go check them out. Every new Shabow. No, forget that. Luke's not part of that.

He's not. Thank God. Dave Van Vickle is He's totally having your show. I'd love to get to know him everyone. I know who knows him says he's remarkable He's the most incredible honestly Dave Van Vickle real talk real talk real talk He's the most incredible man. I've ever met my life. Well most incredible man, including you piece of shit He's the most incredible man. I've ever met my life exception of Thursday except on Fridays most incredible man I've ever met in my life. Exception of Thursday, except on Fridays. Most incredible man. Yeah.

He evangelizes like, uh, he couldn't breathe without speaking Christ and his holy name. Praise God. Last question. Have you seen the new flash? I have not. Do you want to? I do. What are you doing tomorrow at three 40? Three. Can you do it earlier? I can't. I've already booked the tickets. I got the super youth conference at three 30. I will absolutely. What excuse could you give that? Hey, I'm dying of cancer. I'm dead. Please let me.

Dude, did you hear about the, um, that submarine thing was wild. Oh my gosh. Praying for those people. No, they're dead. No, they're dead. Yeah. I thought they had 48 hours. Yeah. But then they found the, they found the ruins. Oh, the U S Navy detected. Uh, let's see, detected the moment when the Titan sub submersible in Poulter, submersible. Thank you. That's because some of my side. Bob Marci.

The sub disciple. I know that wasn't a screw up. I've actually been saying it that way all day. So I want to thank you for correcting me. I'm here with the submersible imploded earlier this week after it lost communication with its host ship. The Wall Street Journal reported that the Navy immediately began listening to the Titan once it learned that it had gone dark the

Navy detected an implosion a short time later near Where officials later discovered debris on the ocean floor about 1600 feet from the bow of the Titanic? That's terrible. That's terrible. You hear the quote from the guy who put it out about diversity What are you talking about the guy who put out out about diversity. What are you talking about? The guy who put out the Titan thing. About diversity? Yes. Why does everything have to be political? When I started the business, one of the things you'll find,

there are other sub-operators out there, but they typically have a gentleman who are ex-military submariners, and you'll see a whole bunch of 50-year-old white guys. Oh, wow. I wanted our team to be younger, to be inspirational. I'm not gonna inspire a 16 year old to go pursue marine technology But a 25 year old you know who's a sub pilot or a platform operator or one of our techs can be inspirational

So he purposefully did not hire ex military experience really people to you want to bring back those Dudes I think to make the next one Although I don't know how many people gonna be paying two hundred fifty,000 to go look at the wreck of the Titanic at this point. If I win the lottery. No, can I pray? Can I close? Let's close in a prayer. How about you close with your best weird Anglican prayer and then all close with my best weird orthodox. What if they're the same? Did you know that? Do you know the church?

You know, the serum liturgy is, overwhelmingly informed by John Christ. Awesome. Praise the Lord. Go for it. I believe, Oh Lord. And I confess that thou art truly Christ,

the son of the living God who came us into the world, the safe, of whom I am the first. I believe also that this is thine own immaculate body, and that this thine own precious blood. Therefore I pray thee, have mercy upon me. Forgive my offenses, both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, committed in knowledge or in ignorance, and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of thine immaculate mysteries under the forgiveness of my sins and life everlasting.

Amen. Of thy mystical supper, this is the most powerful part right before I receive all you can hear. This is what we pray in the East. Every single Byzantine liturgy prays this prayer before we go up and receive of my of thy mystical supper. Oh son of God Accept me today as a communicant for I will not speak of thy mystery to thine enemies Neither like Judas will I give thee a kiss? But like the thief I will confess thee Remember me. Oh Lord in thy kingdom. Every Sunday,

every day when I go to the ordinary, that's the prayer I pray. So I'm not trying to impress you or one up you, but do you know that in the Byzantine liturgy every single time? Yeah, that's what we pray. Yeah, because this is so much of the serum liturgy is informed by the Augustinian tradition andgy is informed by the Augustinian tradition And which is informed by the eastern tradition. Mm-hmm Well, let's see what we got here little prayer here. Um, just a prayer to give yourself to jesus christ

So I would like to invite anybody who has not yet ever done that in their life is watching right now Or those of you who have to do it with me again Who's watching right now or those of you who have to do it with me again? Open oh doors and bolts of my heart that Christ the king of glory may enter Enter oh my light and enlighten my darkness enter my life and resurrect my deadness Enter oh my physician and heal my wounds Enter oh divine fire and burn up the thorns of my sins Ignite my inward parts and my heart with the flame of your love

Enter oh my king and destroy in me the kingdom of sin sit on the throne of my heart and alone reign in me Oh you my king and Lord amen and I think to bring this all together Let's just pray to our blessed mother. Hail Mary full of grace The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for our sinners, now at the hour of our death. Amen. Amen. In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Amen. Amen. Praise God.