Pints With Aquinas - Catholic Teaching on Alcohol w/ Jacob Imam & Rob Praetzel

Episode Date: December 9, 2021

Sitting down with my good friends Jacob Imam and Rob Praetzel, and as many different whiskeys as we can get our hands on to taste test and discuss what Aquinas has to say about alcohol and drunkenness. 🍺 Get your FREE Beer Stein: https://www.patreon.com/mattfradd 🟧💪 http://exodus90.com/matt 🙏 Join Hallow's Advent #Pray25 Challenge! https://hallow.com/partner-mattfradd/?utm_source=influencer&shortlink=59c565e&utm_campaign=mattfradd&utm_medium=email&referrer=mattfradd&c=Matt%20Fradd%20Custom%20Landing%20Page&pid=Influencer&af_channel=Influencer 🔵STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/   

Hey, Matt Fradd here. Welcome to Pints with Aquinas. If this show has been a blessing to you, please consider supporting us directly at pintswithaquinas.com slash give or at patreon.com slash Matt Fradd. Any dollar amount would be a blessing to us. Thank you so much for considering. Yeah, baby. We're live. All right. Welcome to Pints with Aquinas, the first round table discussion we've ever had. Thank you Jacob, Imam, and Rob Pretzel for being here. Pleasure. Well, we're ready to go, man. And for bringing all of this delicious alcohol.

This was actually just what Robbie had in his car. It was amazing. I was afraid someone would say that. Oh man, now this is gonna be good. So tonight what we're gonna do is talk a little bit about what the church teaches about alcohol. See what Aquinas has to say. We're also going to do a bunch of blind tastings because I have gradually

coming to the belief that all bourbon tastes the same. And I know that that's not right, but I'm just going to say it with confidence anyway. Is there any type of Australian whiskey? Not really, but rums's a big thing in Australia. All your pirate ears and criminal backgrounds. Yeah, exactly. I've never been a big fan of rum, but tell us about your first experience

of maybe bourbons or scotches. Well, I think I was five years old and my dad came over with some Johnny Walker said, you want to take a sniff? And I did. And that was, that's actually a true story. Wow. Yeah.

He really kind of caved on this Islam stuff for, you know, when it came to a good sky. Did you try it? Oh yeah. I mean, you know, later on, actually, I remember that from when you're five. Well, I mean, you know, it's kind of a, it's kind of a strong taste, you know, later on actually, I... To remember that. From when you're five. Well, I mean, you know, it's kind of a, it's kind of a strong taste, you know? It was something, maybe our six, but five or six, it was at our friend's house,

like our family friend's house and went over. And then I really didn't drink, you know, even through high school, I never drank, you know, waited and... Good for you. Well, yeah, I guess so. I mean, now, like as a Catholic on the other side, Oh, that's right.

You know, I didn't, you know, probably won't do the same with our kids. It's, you know, and the laws actually are different here in Ohio too. So if anybody scandalized that we're being anti-statist or something, don't worry, I am. But it's a different matter. And you, Rob? Yeah, yeah. So on my 21st birthday, I had a guy move in with me here. I was at Franciscan two days before my birthday. And I came home after a night class, and there was a bottle of Knob Creek on my desk.

And as a college student, that was a lot of money to spend on a bottle of bourbon. And so we had a little bit of it, and had a good time, and got into many adventures with that guy since. Here's my theory about how people develop a taste to whiskey and how it develops. Boys don't like whiskey. So when you're a boy, when you're like 15, and if you were to have whiskey like I did, it was always with Coca-Cola or something, like whatever got rid of the whiskey taste.

So when a man, I think, gets a taste for whiskey, you know, he's 1920 even his mid 20s you know, he immediately becomes pretentious and buys as Expensive a bottle as he can afford and speaks about it with tremendous what he thinks sophistication But he has not yet reached the summit of the whiskey tasting experience I'm of the opinion that once you cross that hurdle and then you can go to a bar and be like,

give me your cheapest bourbon and be happy with it. That's when you've made it. That's right. What do you reckon? I mean, just think about our friend, Dave Matthews. I mean, Dave's the man and he is, you know, he's like from a chemistry background, gone into brewing and makes just a remarkable beer, a whole variety.

But he's just as happy as anybody getting a PBR and just sitting back and cracking open a yingling or whatever and you know all hats off. That guy knows how to enjoy everything. Yeah. Yeah I was at Rocco Palumbra's the other day having dinner, killing quail and then cooking them and then apologizing for not enjoying the quail that we just killed And yeah, like he had this really cheap bourbon. It was called ancient ancient age I think it said it twice and so you knew it was good And so I tried that with a says it a third time if you drink enough of it

It was really like at least three years and But anyway, I had this like idea like, you know what like when it comes to bourbon right and we can maybe have you define the difference between bourbon and Scotch's because some people I know this or do it one sec, but If the bourbon is like the same alcohol content I don't even know if I can really tell the difference and Rocco said oh I could totally tell the difference It was make his mark. I could absolutely tell I'm like, alright Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go to Kroger I'm gonna buy the cheapest bottle of whiskey and I'm gonna buy a bottle of what I just say

Well, make your make his mark. Yeah, and if you can tell the difference you can have that bottle They went we're on so we drove down we came back We got like a 11 or 17 dollar bottle nice bottle make it he could not tell the difference. No, absolutely good Really answer that now in my mind I'm Convinced that this bottle Where can I point it Neil? Look at that one. This one is called echoes spring which is how much Rob? $11 that's $11. All right this one here as here this one here is called

Augusta we haven't even open this this retails for what to? 2250 220 250 dollars and this one Rob just I'm just so impressed that you own this bottle of whiskey Can be up to how much I resale market anywhere from 600 to 1300 bucks? Yeah, and I'm convinced I will not know the difference between echo spring and this and I think that's kind of cool Well, that is pretty cool. I have to say just for people watching They don't know Rocco like he's a good buddy of all of ours in and he is, you know, he's just such a good dude He's humble and so if he makes a claim about something you knew I would have expected him to be able to do it. No problem Yeah, he was deeply ashamed.

So that actually makes it like actually not only did I not like his quail, but Rob, tell us, tell us there's a scotch, you know, people get that confused. Sure, sure. So I'm no expert, but the, you know, scotch is made in Scotland. Kentucky bourbon is made in Kentucky. You won't find Kentucky bourbon that's made anywhere Scotland. Kentucky bourbon is made in Kentucky. You won't find Kentucky bourbon that's made anywhere else but Kentucky. They're legally not allowed to put

Kentucky bourbon on the label if it's not made in Kentucky from like Kentucky spring water, you know, all that. Yeah, and then there's American bourbons. Am I right in thinking all bourbon has to be over 50% corn? I think that's part of it. Yeah, it's something along those lines.

I can't remember the exact percentage, but yeah. People sometimes think, to like Scotch. We like whiskey or do you like bourbon? You're like all of them are whiskey. We're just talking about whiskey. It's different types of whiskey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Just different regions different water sources some of the different ingredients. Yeah, so it is a substantially different taste You know, absolutely. I mean this this rye Versus like this. This is a weeded bourbon here. They're going to, I mean, you'll smell taste like if we wouldn't blind taste test these against each other. Yeah, they're so distinctly differently made.

And we'll see. Maybe I'll impress you. Well, yeah, I mean, maybe you know, you're exactly right. I mean, obviously, if I have a lagervullen, which is a beautiful peaty scotch, I obviously tell the difference. But my claim is just that I don a beautiful peaty scotch, I can obviously tell the difference. But my claim is just that I don't know if I'm going to be able to tell the difference between bourbons. And even if I can tell the difference, it's not like six hundred dollars worth of a difference. It's like a dollar fifty worth of it. Well, and that's a great test is we have this Weller 107, which is a weeded bourbon

retails, I think, around 40. And then you have this highly sought after old rip and Winkle, the exact, it's a 107. I believe it's also a weeded bourbon. So these would be a perfect comparison. Some people say that Weller's like the Pappy Discard or the old rip Discard, so anything that they didn't like. So we'd really be getting a good taste

if it's from the same maker and they're saying this one's worse than this one. Yeah. And if we could tell. Yeah, I don't I think we could. And yeah, honestly, I actually I think I like this one. I'll save it. But I think I like this one a little better. Well, before we do our first blind test, I do be cool if we just kind of talked about the church's position on alcohol in general. And you said that you'd been reading up a ton. Yeah, this whole last hour. You were quoting proverbs, I think. Oh, well, I mean, the place to start maybe is when they have the book of Sirach, you

know, says that what is life without wine? You know, which is a direct quote. That's a direct quote. You know, here, let me, I got the Bible right here. All right. The real thing. And it says right here, what is life to a man who is without wine?

But then he also says, it also goes on later and says, do not reprove your neighbor at a banquet of wine and do not despise him in his merry making. Speak no word of reproach to him." What do you think then? What do you take from that? Don't judge us commenters maybe? I don't know. Sorry, I don't believe that. I think there is, you know, a particular delight of man that is found in drink. Obviously, you know, we'll touch on it with, or you'll read out these parts of the Summa

that we'll talk about going too far in that. But I think there's just something kind of remarkable that wherever Catholics go, there's all, they always like bring up a trail of alcohol with them no matter what, you know? So obvious, and of course, like part of that is, you know, like Christ is, you know, ordains himself into alcohol, into wine. And that's, you know, nothing light, but I mean, just the fact that Irish monks made whiskey and then they brought it down to those

that they were going on mission with in Scotland. They made scotch from that. That, you know, Saint Jennifer Ossero, with his Franciscans as he's going over to California, he brings in his Franciscans, bring the first wine grapes over to California. They started all up. And then after prohibition, everything gets started again with a De La Salle brother who was teaching at schools and there you go,

Napa Valley created just like that. Is that right? Yeah, no kidding. And so, and even modern beer, you know, and sure, okay. You know, the Egyptians get credit for creating beer. We'll give that to them. But the modern techniques were all, you know, constructed in monasteries.

You know, it is just a little bit eerie even, and the list can go on and on for quite some time. It was just a little bit eerie even, and the list can go on and on for quite some time. It was just a little bit eerie, you know, how Catholics seem to revolve around drink. And I think there's some good reasons for that, some that are fitting, you know, and we, anyways, we can talk about those things. Well, all right. Well, what do we, what do we, maybe I was going to say more, but I would actually really want to do a taste test And I wonder if we should just begin with the two big guns all try and I'll let you know if I can tell the difference between Echoes spring

$11 yeah bourbon and whatever else you want to give me. Yeah, spit it out on us though I can say either Buckner's or old rib. I'm leaning towards Buggner's cuz it's unopened and I'm really curious Well, sure you wanna do it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, you can't smell it. Yeah here Jacob. If you'd like to yeah Quick quick quick. Oh, and I'm gonna shut my eyes shut my eyes shutting the eyeball We're gonna go real light on these and we're gonna absolutely I just want to I just want to let it and well oh, yeah, and he's he's like a pro tip if people are out there and they're getting into bourbon and You know, they they want to know how to enjoy it. Here's something a priest once said to me I thought it was good advice. He said you don't drink whiskey you taste it. Mm-hmm

So when you when you're drinking whiskey, just remember that just lay it on your tongue let me know what I'm meant to open my eyes okay all right so this is it we have two here this is very little I think that was yours because you said we're gonna get rid of you were holding the chair let's redo this yeah I don't know why I don't know yeah yeah all right that was so so good of you Thank you. Yeah, wait, that's me. You know, like honest. Yeah one of my greatest faults Is that good? Oh, that's perfect. Is it? Oh, come on. I'm putting on my hands. Yeah, really perfect. Okay

Say what I say, we're not gonna Yep. All right. so here are two glasses. I already think this is the more expensive one because it's darker. But here, I'll shut up and I'll just, are you supposed to, when they say blind whiskey tasting, they don't mean you gotta shut your eyes, do they? No, use all of your senses to observe

and think you're an educated. All right. Induce a. Now, I don't know all the fancy language around it. I don't know what to say. That smells way better. That smells warm. It smells woody.

This smells way better than this already. That smells like kind of like a nice vinegar. All right, here we go. I'm going to this is nice. All right, here we go. Is it at least the same proof? No, they're slightly different, but you'll be surprised. Maybe that's that's that's lovely.

All right, here we go. See, I really cannot tell that big of a difference. I can't. OK, the smell was right. Let me smell. Let me let me smell the really. Yeah, yeah. Coffee beans that Rob has brought over. I'm going to do one more time. I'll be I'll be honest with you. I think when I saw the two whiskies coming at me, I noticed one of them was darker

than the other. And so that's why I'm pretty sure the darker when I first saw him was probably the more expensive. Also, because a darker bourbon just is better. So I'm assuming from the look of it that this is the cheap one. I'm going to try one more time. There's not a lot to that. That is that is better. That's better.

It's um, it feels like thicker. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. They and they say there's no bad descriptors when you give your initial impression. So you could say it tastes like the inside of a sock and someone will say, Hmm. Oh, yeah.

I get that. All right. So I think, I think I'm like convinced that this is the good one and this is the cheap one. Well, you're right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

But you know what? Like, again, that's how many of those bottles could I buy for the price of the expensive one about 21 21 21 of these. So I would rather be cool enough to buy 21. Well, they could be good. Echo spring. It's a great name. It's great.

I would rather do that. Yeah, I think. But yeah, I mean, well, let's see. I think if we do this for you, Jacob, or you, you've got to shut your eyes now, because I've mentioned the difference in the sight. All right. So do you want to get the same one as me, or is that a bit weird? I don't care.

Oh, that's a great idea. Just close your eyes. I think you should close your eyes. That's really smart. All right, Jacob. All right. See, now we can tell, right, because we're looking at the colors. Yeah, yeah. You never, okay, yeah.

This is going to be so embarrassing. You are about to drink a $400? $250. $250 a $400 to 250 250 400. Yeah That's what I can buy for and then a Four dollar fifty Eleven pre-tax there's really like no I don't get much smell out of that one. Oh, his eyes are closed. Sweet. Yeah. I can't say I really like that one that much.

That's much nicer, I think. And I, I think I chose. I think you chose the cheap one wait. Oh Yeah, he chose the cheap one. I think that's true. Yeah, I did he chose See this my proving my point on clients with a class Yeah, and then I'll close my eyes, that's I really didn't like this this let's pull one for let's pull one for Neil to I really didn't like this. Let's pour one for Neil too. Yeah.

Oh yeah, I'll do that. All you're doing is for Rob, right? Sure, man. I'm doing that. We are definitely gonna do it for Rob, but Rob is a master, and I know Rob. It's like, what's the point? You already know.

Build it up, build it up, because that would be extra embarrassing. Can you give me the reverberating? All right, I think you should shut your eyes, because the difference in the color is too obvious. Yeah, I agree, I think that's great. All right, okay, so you have to say which one you like better but also which one you think is okay, okay, all right mmm, I

I Think I like the more expensive one, but not by enough to pay 200 not that I would ever pay I didn't you know that was just I can't even lie about my reaction. Everybody saw it. I'd like to say that I have a more sophisticated palette. Are you shocked by that? I'm more embarrassed than I am shocked, yeah. But it was, but the smell was distinctive.

Here he goes. So there's like a, someone just blew the candles out in church at Easter vigil from this honestly, no As you tip it that is weird. It's uncanny. I'll hand it to you and you'll smell It'll smell like an old lady. I promise now with false teeth. I just blew out the and as a kid You're like dripping the wax onto the pew Did you drink a lot? Yeah, it might be that

Did you drink a lot? Yeah, it might be that. Did you drink a lot as a kid at mass? Is that why? Tastes just like Easter. All right, this is, I like this better. I love the smell. Okay. It's very unique. And I really hope, I don't care. Actually, I'll laugh if I embarrass myself here. I think this is the expensive one. I think this is the cheap one. Okay, but before you open your eyes. Yeah How significant is the difference? So I think there's a really complex smell out of this one. Oh My gosh, yeah, there's no doubt. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, that's a great great layers of taste and smell here Where's that one taste like this is really flat Whereas that one tastes like this is really flat. Yeah. Yeah.

It tastes like you like you said. Okay. But now that we know it, give them to me and I'll see if I can find that candle smell. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you're exactly right, though. You totally get influenced by what I said. That's what my dad came up with, like the wheel of smell where it's next time you're

driving. Imagine if you smell a skunk, imagine coffee and it'll smell like coffee now being from Australia We didn't have skunks so I never had that association of disgusting with skunk sure so I went to Canada when I was 19 or 20 and I loved the smell I still do and you love coffee really love the smell of skunk not up close not on me You know yeah, yeah, I mean I I would alone. I think I you're exactly. Oh golly. You're exactly right. This is very flat Yeah, this is more complex again. Just not $250 complex all right well now that you know You see by the color right and remind us Rob what we're drinking so yeah This is the Augusta distillery Buckner's single barrel

So like that taste to be perfectly honest. Yeah. Yeah, that's yeah. No. Yeah, that's absolutely a preference thing And it's totally right by you to I had to say that agree shame on you Friend he Great guy. He was in the wine business and I sat down with him once and we're talking about a wine that maybe I I did like and or maybe I I can't remember how it was something that I should have liked or something like that Maybe that's probably the theme with me. I guess but he he's you know, it was relaxed and he just said, you know

Wine she's just the bringer of joy and nothing more have it when you'd like her Actually is really nice appreciate that yeah, yeah, yeah, let's give Neil so much who about you sitting over there Let's have a look at what Aquinas says, let's do it What do we got here? So we'll begin with the is wine even permissive permitted? And he says this and this is quite short. He says, I answer that no meat or drink considered in itself is unlawful, according to Matthew, not that which goeth into the mouth the file of the men.

Wherefore it is not unlawful to drink wine as such, yet it may become unlawful accidentally. This is sometimes owing to circumstances on the part of the drinker, either because he is easily the worst for taking wine and we've probably all known people they have just one or two drinks. You're like, you're kind of a joke. Or because he is bound by a vow not to drink wine. We'll talk about Exodus 90 later. If you do Exodus 90, you commit to that.

You probably should be drinking or let's see, or it can result from the mode of drinking, because to wit, he exceeds the measure in drinking drunkenness. Right. And sometimes it's on account of others who would be scandalized thereby. Give you a quick example of the scandalized thereby. I have a great friend in Georgia and I went over to his house and we were having a great little kind of get together. You know, we're having a barbecue, that kind of thing. And I said, well, I'll go buy a bottle of bourbon.

And he said actually rather you didn't because my wife used to be an alcoholic and, you know, courageously is no longer doing that. So that would be an example, I think, of causing scandal. Oh, yeah. That's a great example. Having to drink. Yeah. I mean, skin almost appropriately is defined as something that tells somebody something false about God. something that tells somebody something false about God.

And so if what is, I suppose, and communicated in that moment is that God leads us into like, you know, actively leads us into temptation that we cannot overcome. Oh, he can't tell. Did you give me both of those? Yeah. Could you switch them? Did you? Wait, which one trouble? I think the one right there. I think that's the fancy one and that's the yep. Yep. Yeah Yeah, what did you do? Did you enjoy them? He'll submit? Yeah Okay, so here's if you want to play a guessing game with me Which one you think is higher proof maybe even guess an estimate dude, that's easier thing

Which one you think is higher proof maybe even guess an estimate dude. That's easier. I think Do you think so? So okay here? I think would you pass me the echo Springs and I was because I roughly know so I wouldn't be able to play this game Anyways, um, okay. Yeah You had them both they taste equally smooth possibly would you I don't agree with that. Which one you think is harsher? Oh Actually, that's a good question. Yeah, because I think that one's flat I think that was a great way a descriptor I'd say that one was a little more intense. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah So it is it's very significant actually. So this is 80 proof. So 40% This is

62.5 so Percent so 125. Okay, so 125%. So you have a major, I mean that's 22.5% difference. All right, so here's what I'm saying. If you get two bottles of whiskey, and they're both bourbon, and they're both the same proof, that's what I'm saying. It's essentially impossible to tell.

I would do this right now. Let's do that next. Yeah, do you wanna fill that while he finishes his point about something you said that was terrific? And I forget it though. Guessing the proof is more important. I'm thinking out loud a little bit here. Oh, causing a scandal.

So scandal is considered by St. Thomas as when somebody communicates something false about God to somebody else, you know, primarily through your actions. And I guess if I'm trying to characterize or define how that would be portrayed to that woman is that God would be somebody that leads her into temptation that she cannot overcome. Yeah. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that makes sense. There's a good point here. I wanted to read to and this obviously something that we don't want to communicate to our friends, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. We should just point out. I mean without kind of having to delve right into it that Aquinas says that drunkenness is a mortal sin. Like it's completely not OK to get drunk here. And I do think that Catholics can make light of that. But what's so difficult is that you're taking something that's good in lawful use like other appetites. Right.

That's what's difficult because at one moment you're kind of celebrating it live festivity and then two more drinks later you're like mortal sin. So how do we how do we talk about that? What do you think? So if I remember correctly I think Aquinas says it depends on the circumstances whether or not drunkenness itself is a mortal sin. I don't think it's not. So the only, do you want me to?

Sure, sure. Just right here. I mean Aquinas says that if you intentionally choose to drink alcohol to the point that you've impaired your reason. Absolutely. Yeah. You've committed mortal sin. Oh, absolutely.

Now, just a quick anecdote, if you don't mind. I was singing at a pub in Canada Once upon a time when I used to live there and it was I go up there every week and take my guitar and sing A few songs love the locals. They loved me And then I had my birthday party there and they the bartenders were spiking my drinks and they did this in like Out of because they love me and they just wanted to do something nice, you know what I mean?

Like, but I got completely hammered, like sloshed. And I think I had like three drinks and I saw it was like the frozen crap and that kind of thing. So it may have been a sin of inordinate this like maybe I shouldn't have had two big fancy drinks like you could

maybe say there is in there. But I wasn't culpable for the sin of drunkenness because I didn't intend it and I and I couldn't have known it given that they were spiked and he makes that allowance there if somebody yeah What I was bringing out. Yeah. Yeah, it's not drunkenness in and of itself is not always a mortal sin, but intentionally bringing yourself to drunkenness Is potentially here's the three things he says Here's the here's the three ways we can consider the sin of drunkenness first so that he let's say me Matt Knows not the drink to be immoderate and Intoxicating and then drunkenness may be without sin. That's what happened to me at that pub, right?

intoxicating and then drunkenness maybe without sin. That's what happened to me at that pub. Right. Second, so that he perceives the drink to be immoderate, but without knowing it to be intoxicating. And that's what I meant before. It's kind of like a gluttonous kind of thing. I wonder, like you, you're kind of drinking too much just the way you might eat too much. Yep. Yep. So in that sense, he says this drunk, the drunkenness on that part might be a venial sin and thirdly and this is I think more typical or at least what we mean when we talk about drunkenness being a sin he says it may happen that a man is well aware that the drink is immoderate and intoxicating and yet he would rather be drunk than abstain from drink such a man is a drunkard properly speaking. is a drunkard, properly speaking. Because morals take their species not from things that occur accidentally and beside the intention but from that which is directly intended.

In this way drunkenness is a mortal sin, because then a man willingly and knowingly deprives himself of the use of reason whereby he performs virtuous deeds and avoids sin and thus he sins mortally by running the risk of falling into other sins. St. Ambrose says, We learn that we should shun drunkenness which prevents us from avoiding grievous sins for the things we avoid when sober we unknowingly commit through drunkenness. That's definitely been like, you know, I remember as a teenager I'd get drunk and I'd just do stupid things and Not good. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah, I remember as a teenager, I'd get drunk and I'd just do stupid things and. Not good anyway.

Yeah, yeah, I think there's just like a beautiful. Thought to the way that, as you had mentioned, alcohol maybe connects with the church in the church of seasons, the traditions and seasons, and I think seasons have occasions and they have like special embellishments to them. Right. And the way that we when we have a reason to celebrate, we tend to have, you know, what maybe have alcohol with it, you know, as a form of embellishing a celebration. We see Saint. Goodness. GK Chesterton actually has that as his rule for drinking.

That you should only drink when you would otherwise be happy. Yeah. To make you happier. Yeah. To be able to mark those occasions. But if you are, if you are sad, if you're, you know, angry, then those are the times when, you know,

you shouldn't touch it. I mean, it's a rule. So like all things law has to pass into virtue. But it's a pretty nice one, I think. You know, and I think it marks what you're trying to hit. Yeah, like along those lines. Oh, sorry. Yeah, what it hits is kind of a, just something that we more innately do as Catholics. Oh, absolutely. Embracing tradition and the beautiful things that go with it.

There's a little story to go with that. Actually, this bottle of Old Rip is really special. Matt, you were there the day I brought my son home Our firstborn son I had acquired this bottle Especially they're very hard to find when you can find them wholesale. They're not ridiculously expensive But as I had said before aftermarket, they're so rare and people covet them so they go for a lot of money and So I was able to acquire this and I saved it I had opened it on the day of his birth and I made a special occasion for tonight

because the rest of this. So next week's day. Yeah, the rest of this I'm pumping in nitrogen or CO2 into it and preserving until he's 21 and having it with him. That's beautiful, man. Again, this kind of tradition or this season to have with him and to help him to appreciate

that there are special things for special occasions You know beautiful thing. Yeah, I tell you if I was if I turned 21 and my dad pulled out an old Dusty and if it wasn't dusty, he would have known enough to make it dusty He had a brought that out when I drank this the day you came home like that. What a beautiful thing Yeah, yeah to do it. Yeah, I will and that's the bottle. This is the bottle. Yeah. Yeah, he probably won't like it But all the same, you know, he'll learn to be a man that way, you know Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got a theory I want to test on you guys a little bit You see what you think of it at least so you have

You know see Thomas and and quite a number of people in the tradition saying, you know drink to merriment and no more Right. So at that point, I don't think it one has ever said that he's often attributed to saying that who said that well I clearly thought it was same time it would be it wasn't him okay I've looked I once quoted him okay schooled on the internet yeah yeah schooling me now before I get schooled elsewhere yeah you'll find Aquinas saying it in a bunch of like what Aquinas said, but it won't be true. OK.

Drink to the point of merriment. I assume there was a commentary on 92 on Psalm 92. But maybe. Yeah, I hope I hope I'm wrong about being wrong. I doubt that you are. It's a beautiful quote. I've never really looked a great deal into his commentaries on the Psalms. But OK, OK.

Well, anyways, the idea, even here within, you know, Sirach, when you find that you do not approach your neighbor in his merriment, it's it captures the same idea of what I'm talking about. So, OK, I have I can't rely on say, Thomas got to fall back on the Bible. But the but I think there is there is an idea here of why is it that within merriment, your reasoning is obviously not gone, but you're not sitting down to read a dense tome at that point, right?

I mean, there is something where you have done away with the most crisper part of your intellect, right? So why is that actually okay? And it's a great question. And so I don't really have a clear answer, but here's what I, here's my first guess at it, at least is that in our reasoning, our ability to reason logically, we don't actually participate with God in that because God doesn't reason logically. He understands totally, completely. He doesn't need to reason. This is just one of those things where He's so much above us that we cannot actually approach, or we can't approach, but the way that we approach

that type of complete understanding is through our reasoning and through His illumination. type of complete understanding is through our reasoning and through his illumination. In the joy actually that you find in these occasions of true merriment, you know, when there are feast days, when you're with your friends, when you're with your family and you're thinking, you begin to understand a beatific joy in a certain way that we will enjoy when we have actually come into the beatific joy and in a certain way that we will enjoy When we have actually come into the base of equation itself. I think that there's something that's actually appropriate and fitting in that There anything about that I that yeah, I think there's a simple nice and a purity to merriment as well You know, I think it's innocent

The joy that's had in merriment, you know, think of uh maybe singing songs that we all know together you know uh things like that uh sky's birthday yeah yeah uh and and i think that's pure and innocent and childlike you know uh and and uh that's what i think about that cool you know it is true that we drink to have a physiological response. Oh, totally. Yeah. So it's important to say that, like drunkenness is a sin. And yet the reason anybody has a drink isn't necessarily because of the taste. Oh, yeah. And that's not why they're doing it. I mean, they like the taste and that is definitely part of it.

But you have a drink for in order to calm down, in order so that social interactions may flow less awkwardly. You know, like that, that is part of drinking. That is why people drink. And I think that's OK. Yeah, there's also I was trying to think of analogous examples of when we engage in things that blunt our intellect somewhat, but it be OK. You know, like sitting by the fireplace and having a having a cup of decaf tea,

you know, in that that's a different kind of frame of mind. Oh, sleeping. The man who's just pounded 10 coffees and is reading the Sumer. So in that sense, if it's wrong to kind of blunt, as you put it, that crispness of the intellect, having a glass or two of whiskey, it would be, many other things would be wrong.

So that kind, I know that's not what you're arguing, but that couldn't be a good argument against drinking. Oh, I'm definitely not making no argument I mean sleeping I think is the is a preeminent example is that we're you know, none of us are doing much at all Interestingly like one of the reasons this is interesting the summa Aquinas argues that sex isn't immoral And what he says is one of the objections is here, but when this is my Australian Colloquial translation. Yeah, but when people have sex they go out of their mind like it's an ecstatic experience and Aquinas says yeah But like they're aware of that

Mmm prior to the sexual act which is natural and good and therefore it's okay I'm not I'm not equating that to drunkenness and saying drunkness Okay I just find that interesting that was one of the objections he responds to in the summa that that well sex can't be good because When you climax you are somehow ecstatic or in some No, I think that's how I make things weird We're gonna leave actually No, but I think that is actually a good good parallel to being self-aware and enjoying

that moment of marrying marrying mint But I think that is actually a good good parallel to being self-aware and enjoying that moment of marrying Mary mint in drink. Yeah, I think that's actually really helpful, man. That's Thing ah, is this another one? This is the that colors a lot. See this looks Similar. Okay. What am I don't tell me which is which obviously I won't tell you which is which but this is the Weller Versus the old rip well versus all Tell me which is which obviously. I won't tell you which is which but this is the Weller versus the Old Rip. Weller versus Old Rip. They're both 107. That Old Rip, I looked that up online, it was $1600. That's what I saw when I looked it up.

I'm not saying you can't get it for less or more. Yeah, there's a range but that's the upper end of the range. And then one of them is Weller. Okay. Alright so I'm about to taste both and I'm about to show you that I can't tell the difference. Are you ready? Now I can look at them because they look lovely. Smells like bourbon.

Lovely smells identical to the bourbon. I just smelled in the other glass. Here we go. You know which is which idea. Yeah. Yeah. That is deliciously delightful. Yeah. They both are. All right. I think I like this one slightly more. Okay.

But I can't really tell the difference between a $1,600 bottle. Why do you like that one more? All right. Let me do it again. Yeah. I don't even know why. Let me drink some water. Yeah.

Don't get me wrong. It's no Echo Spring. Or ancient, ancient age. It'll do. All right. I'm just waiting for you to satisfy people. You know what I was saying? Like there's like a smoothness.

Another word that comes to me since you said there's no stupid ways of defining saying things There's a roundness to the drink. There's no biting this to both of these It's funny to say that maybe I don't know if you might not even remember But everyone that I've shared this with has said that exact same thing What's that like that it rolls through your mouth like it's round. Yeah in some way. They describe this circular Yeah, that's so funny. I don't remember that but that is my yeah No, because yeah, it was a couple of father Sean Rocco who we mentioned, you know, yeah you guys all I Think my dad said that more going on towards the end here. Okay. Okay. It's like that stays the same throughout

Sure, this starts like that and then there's like spice Sparkles. Yeah They're the same color and everything so it won't give it away for you if I tell him All right, the one that you like better the one that you explain is more complex is the i'm just gonna Oh, i'm mixing it Which is which no idea. No, okay Because you still know you mixed it that's how that's how we man would you hold this? Yeah, sure Thank you. All right. How did he hand it to you like no, dude, you mixed it. That's how we handed it to you. Thank you.

Alright, how did he hand it to you? Like, he handed it to me. No, dude, you gotta just drink him and we'll start again. Oh, see, what a champion. That is funny though, that's cool that I, that I, the complexity, but just, just because it was more complex doesn't mean I liked it more. I feel like the, the Sic Sicilian in the Princess Bride yeah what do you think this be by the way big shout out to father Brian in North Dakota who sent me a

couple of boxes of cigars and this is what you like this one I love the taste of the wrapper and my initial impression is a little spicy don't move them but you do I'll have to come back to you on that yeah well this is all recorded we can figure this out right yeah they if they could see me mixing them yeah okay so yeah we might have to scroll back which is you know this is really nice okay guys I think I know all right yeah that was very lovely yeah this was the sparkles I think this know Yeah That was very lovely. Yeah, this was the sparkles. I think this you know you like that. Yeah the prickly spice sparkles Tell us that's more price like so upwards of 16 and I like the rarity the well is usually what the latter is 45 Well, you know in PA or in certain states

We can't get it or like state regulated states They'll put it on lottery up to maybe a hundred hundred feel like I've proved my point in this episode Um, I I think this one's superior as I handed it to you, right? This is you're handing it back to me as I handed it to you. Okay You got it as well you did get it as well. This is the okay But like 1600 to 45, it's not that big of a difference This is my point. Well, the burdens are the same pretty much get over yourself and drink the echo So this isn't that this is maybe double or triple what you get well or four for. Okay. There's, I guess there's just a consistently

distinct flavor to this that they reproduce very well. And when you usually, when you're paying that much money for something, it's because they can reproduce that experience that you had perfectly, you know, as close to perfectly as possible. You know, and you'll get something like this that maybe five years ago and they made it and you have that bottle and you have this one,

they might taste slightly different, you know? Yeah. That's a little bit of it I see and they obviously with this the rarity of it the exclusivity all right that's the only release a certain number of bottles Grandad this old grant so just for anyone out there you got no money on you but you want to get a good cheap whiskey this in my estimation oh is the best cheap bourbon Actually, maybe I don't even know we should do echo spring versus old land. Yeah, we should cheap ones Yeah, cuz that's what a hundred proof. This is a hundred proof. This is 90 Yeah, so I might be able to tell but yeah, this is terrific. And how is that $17? I think a $20

I think it's like 20 something think a twenty dollars I think it's like twenty something yeah come on Neil you're up here we go see how we do now what do you think of this I had a couple of thoughts so the first is um you know what do you said to those people who are like okay that's terrific fine know, alcohol can be consumed appropriately. But my father was a drunk and I feel like you're making light of the pain I had to endure by making pushing this in my face. What's your kind of feet comment to that? If someone were to say something like that, because I certainly feel terrible

for people who've had that experience And wouldn't want to make light of it of course not But it you know yeah You know the new nuts weird you know because We can't be self-selecting like when you went over to your buddies barbecue Yeah, and and he said you know you know please don't bring a bottle or don't don't go buy a bottle Like that's very personal and you have to act appropriately in the space. But the internet is universal and we really don't know the people that we're speaking to and with in a sense.

It's almost on them to be more discerning than it is me. Yeah. So long as I'm not doing anything inappropriate. Your thumbnail for your videos, we're tasting bourbon. So keep scrolling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think Yeah, the more personal it is the more you do have to have that prudence and you have to have that Awareness, you know to respect the people that you're with. Yeah, actually Aquinas makes a good point on this as well But let first we're gonna see what Catholic Jamie thinks we're gonna bring that name back

I don't know if it's belittling or not, but it's my favorite We're going to bring that name back. I don't know if it's belittling or not, but it's my favorite. Trying to figure out which one I like better. So here is one of his objections here. Is sort of in a kind of response to what I just said. So for those who aren't familiar with the sumer Aquinas sets himself objections and then responds. And here's one of the objections.

So this this is not this is not Aquinas' thought. This is what people he's about to disagree with think, right? Someone might say this, further, whoever causes another to sin, sins himself. Therefore, if drunkenness were a sin, it would follow that it is a sin to ask a man to drink that which makes him drunk, which would seem very hard. That's similar what I'm saying, isn't it?

So I say like, if drunkenness is a sin, then I shouldn't even be like, hey, you want to drink? Because I'd be somehow leading you to sin. Aquinas's response to this is this, even as he that is drunk is excused if he knows not the strength of the wine, which we've just discussed. So too is he that invites another to drink excused from sin if he be unaware that the drinker is the kind of person to be made drunk by the drink offered. But if ignorance be lacking, neither is excused from sin. So that's a that's a that's a good point. And yeah, like if I if I know you're a lightweight and I put a bit too much in because I and I want to kind of trick you yeah yeah and then I'm engaging if you know it's gonna get you

drunk we're both we're both culpable yeah and similarly for his latter point like if you had brought a bottle over without asking or without knowing your buddies wife's you know yeah you know valiant struggle and if she had of yeah then proceeded to get drunk that wouldn't have been on me No, exactly. Yeah, I think you're good Another thing I have you guys Listen to do you want to quickly give us your feedback? Oh, yeah, what do you think? the more expensive one and this one's my guess for the cheaper one.

Okay. They were different, but I liked both of them. They were both really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, um, did he get it right? No. So this one is the old rip, but again, so here's the thing they do say that, uh, that Weller 107 is, is like the discarded barrels.

So you're drinking basically the same thing. You know what I mean? Uh, but yeah. Yeah. So they tasted like different to me. Yeah. You know, it's funny Neil. I actually like the weller better Yeah, which is great. You can find the weller, you know, that's yeah makes it easier. But yeah, but what were you gonna say? Oh, have you listened to that audiobook on the cult? I think it's called caffeine by Michael Paulin. No demonizes caffeine I don't know anything

Well, you know how much I love coffee, right? All right. So let's just make sure that's on the table real quick. It doesn't in a certain sense. Well, it does, actually. What am I saying? Totally does. But he ends up still just being such a fan of caffeine that he goes on.

And actually, I should just tell this out. I don't know of criticisms in this book, but I know some people don't like Michael Paulin. I don't know of criticisms in this book, but I know some people don't like Michael Pollan. I'm sure that there's a lot of valid reasons out there. But for this point in particular, I did want to bring up, he mentioned that beer was the drink of the middle ages. And it's just in kind of the context of alcohol generally. Even for the very few wage laborers that were out there, they were coming in in the morning, they're getting their like their Doppelbach, they're

you know, in the afternoon, they're getting another, you know, high caloric beer. And they're going on their way, you know, once, you know, as the sun's setting or but we're actually in many cases actually in as the Angelou spell rings at noon. So they have really shortened work days. But the crazy thing is that with the introduction of caffeine, that enabled employers to keep their workers later and later and later. And so it was actually most fittingly known as kind of the Industrial Revolution's drink. And guys like William

Cobbett and GK Chesterton bemoaned this. And there was an occasion when there was a bill coming into parliament that was going to shut down or to push pubs to open later in the day rather than in the morning as they were doing. And he said, you know, that is unfitting. They are free unto themselves and unto God, and they can do as they will, will please. And especially if some of these people, and he actually names women in particular, he says, women are up early, then 11 o'clock is not too early for a drink, I'll have you know. But I do think there's something, you know, to be said about But I do think there's something, you know, to be said about beer as being the drink of Christendom and caffeine being the drink of kind of our industrial, you know, modern market system. When did, I mean, when Aquinas talks about alcohol, he's always talking about wine. When did beer, when was beer invented?

Well, ancient Egyptians. When did it come to Europe? But when was beer invented? Well, he said the Egyptians. Yeah, they come to Europe You know, I'm not sure exactly when it came but it was certainly the monks that You know of the Middle Ages that? Created our modern techniques that we were still using to the same time as pretzels He's it right. Yep. Really? No You drink yeah, like you're having a press. I can't be drinking bloody Cabernet Sauvignon with this crap. The other thing I wanted to bring up is I once had a priest say to me that we were talking

about chastity and temperance in the sexual realm. And he said, in a sense, it's easier for me because I don't engage that faculty at all. Whereas for you, you have to engage it appropriately as a husband. Yeah. And that's that's that's an interesting thing. I wonder how that kind of is similar to alcohol. Like you have these abstinence movements. I used to know a friend, she was a independent fundamentalist Baptist and alcohol was a sin.

He's don't drink it. Don't drink it. And in a sense, it's like, yeah, well, that would be easier. So shouldn't we shouldn't we just avoid things that lead to temptation? And if alcohol can lead to temptation, then isn't it best to just avoid it? And the answer has got to be no, because there's all sorts of things that we engage in, like conversation, the sexual act where we can sin. But just to say, well, avoid all conversation and all sex and let the species die out so that we don't see it is clearly not a very Marxist.

That's it. I don't know. I don't think it does actually. Yeah. Pave the grass when no one has to mow it. Oh well I'm like everybody dies out. You know I mean yeah I guess there's more long lines of don't have any conversation. So yeah.

What does that mean? Pave the grass? Yeah, well the idea is you know pay pay put pavement over where the lawn would be so no one has to mow the grass You know, uh, it's just a little anecdote. I guess just yeah, that'd be gross. Yeah. Yeah, we shouldn't do that here, you know I Can't remember. What was the point? Engaging sexual feb sexual faculty. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I suppose, I suppose maybe, but you know, I actually, I hold this against our American kind of Protestant heritage a little bit is having our drinking age so high because I do think that alcohol is actually a better school of virtue than most things. You get immediate feedback with how you're doing in your life of temperance. And I'm not actually being like trying to be funny here. I really believe this. You actually have this immediate feedback. Have I gone too far?

Do I need to slow down? Do I need to restrain myself? How am I doing? You know, dad, you know, please help me along the way. Teach me. You actually have a mentor and friend along the way that they help you. And as you're beginning the drink, but when it, when it comes to something like liberality, you know, with, which is, you know, something we call modern generosity, that's really complicated and tricky. Like, how is my heart doing in this?

St. Thomas in his commentary on evil, or in his treatise on evil, he actually says, that Avarice is never going to be defeated in this life. You know, and it's kind of complex argument through it is that we love anything that we desire at all. And so, in so far as we want to use money in any way, then, you know, we are still going, we still love it in a sense. And yet we're commanded not to love it. And so he says that

Avarice is just going to be with us until heaven. So that's a tough one. And so, and we don't really have the immediate feedback with how we're doing with generosity. Am I tithing enough? Am I generous enough with my friends, you know, am I saving appropriately? And there also is an obvious repercussions for drinking too much. Totally. In a way that there isn't, say, with a young boy looking at pornography. He might feel bad, you know, he may feel like

that's kind of lousy thing I just did there, but he's not like waking up in the morning and vomiting. Yeah. It'd be cool if he did, but yeah, so in that sense too, there's a kind of an immediate feedback. Yeah, I know. I really think it's a great school of virtue. And this is why, you know, kids should be drinking with their parents first. The parents should be like welcoming. Logan Gage, awesome dude, philosophy professor up here on campus. He

makes little cocktails. I don't know if he wants me to say this. Sorry, Logan. Not Logan Cage. It's not him. John Smith, I think you were saying. John Smith, you know. His kids with Pocahontas, actually, they would give them little cocktails. And, and you know, if any of the, I mean, tiny, tiny little amount,

not even an ounce, right? You know, and if any of the kids, you know, put it back to you too quickly, he and the brothers would mock the kid. Oh, you can't just you can't just do that. You have to enjoy it. Figure out the taste all this and it actually again becomes a school of virtue. You know, what is the desire to be drunk?

And I'm thinking especially in our teenage years, but obviously it carries on to now. Like when I was a teenager, like I wanted to get together my friends and get drunk. This was a thing I perceived to be good. We need to do this. This will be exciting. What do you think about that? We I mean and don't try and be too pious about it like. I mean, I think my the first thing that comes to mind is like I want intimacy with my friends.

I want an experience with my friends. I want to have something that will all kind of be silly and vulnerable together with my friends like those things in and of themselves aren't bad. Necessarily, right? The drunkenness is. But what do you think? Yeah, I think maybe misguided curiosity, you know, along with what you were saying, you know, this, this desire to have an intimate experience together.

Yeah. Yeah, to be honest, I just not really been in the... Were you like that as a teenager? Did you go out and get hammered? No. Yeah, I did. Yeah, all the time. But, you know, communities are, I mean, this is this is a tricky thing about it It's like community is not in and of itself a good thing

Mm-hmm, right, you know when seeing Augustin is stealing pairs with his friends Yeah, you know, that's not a good community that you know need to be latching on to it's not even a community that You necessarily need to say, you know, I need to just be sanctified and you know more I think part of why People like to get drunk is they don't know how to actually have authentic, vulnerable conversations with each other unless they're drunk. I don't know if as men, you know, when I was a teenager, that was poo pooed. Like you don't say to your mate, hey, I love you. Like you mean a lot to me. And so I think there was a sense in which like I want to be able to express these things, but I'm being told I can't say those things when we get drunk.

We say those kinds of things. You know, I'm saying. I just, you know, I can't comment on it well, but that makes a lot. It makes a good bit of sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. Failure of being raised, though. I think that's just a, is it just a theme? Yeah, I was actually told that drunkenness was wrong.

Come on. Oh, well, yeah, I suppose with everything he shared. Now, but that said, like I remember once I went out, went drinking and I woke up in the morning just totally hung over. It's like 15, 16, actually maybe a bit older. And I walked outside and I just threw my guts up all over. Do you say throw your guts up in America? No, probably. Here's a good Australianism for you. Technicala Yorn.

Come on. Vomiting it, yeah. So I threw me guts up and my sister or brother and I went, oh Matt, you know, tried to show me sympathy and my dad's like, no, leave him. And that was kind of cool. I think like I felt like that he was being too hard on me, but he knew is I drank too much and I was gonna clean that up and I was gonna get no sympathy from him I thought that's kind of cool. Yeah See school of virtue

Yep, well, I mean we're in England we there was definitely much more of a drinking culture I have to say it was you know after yeah, yeah, it huge in it. Ireland to I sleep there. It was just incredible He was got get hammered people don't go out and have a drink they go out and get hammered all the time Well now why do we laugh at that? We all just laughed all of us. Why do we laugh at that? There's something charming because I think you've gone past the point of enjoyment You know, but you're laughing. We all laugh when I say Irish drinking, there's a charm to that.

But I'll tell you this, when I lived in Ireland. Well, I wasn't actually referring to going out and getting smashed. Like, that's not what I was talking about. What was the chuckle? Oh, you know, when you said, when I first brought up, like there's more of a drinking culture in England. Yeah.

When I was bringing that up, I wasn't saying, referring to everybody, you know, starting knitting their technical art or the yard or whatever. Technically, yarn, yarn. Yeah. Oh, I got you. There you go. It makes no sense. But just let me quickly finish this point. That's to say, in Ireland, I remember just it just devastated families.

Like we lived in the Gael Turk, the Gaelic speaking area, one of the two main Gaelic speaking areas of Ireland and Donegal. And every single family had an alcoholic in it. And it was brutally sad. It was just awful. And I remember being, you know, hearing like the Irish drinking. They love the drink. And we say that.

And maybe it's because we laugh because we think of it in the kind of merry making sense like the good healthy sense but when I was there and I just saw the alcoholism it was so unappealing it was gross it was really gross I had in mind college students going out and getting smashed when you said it yeah you know and I do think that's a bit funny yeah you know because they're going out for enjoyment and yet they've gone past the point I mean every man knows that at one point you've you've gone past the part Gone past the part of happiness. Yeah, you know and into misery Neil you have any Thoughts yeah, well, I have a lot of things right on my head what I thought when you said earlier Jacob was really interesting when you're talking about like

It's the sacrifice of losing your higher faculties because my what my like two cents on alcohol has always been that it seems in some way to enhance our connection with our emotions so in some ways like you know the same way sitting down and thinking about your emotions if you have like a drink it can help you get more in touch with the things that you're kind of feeling on a deeper emotional level and I think that that goes with all the, you know, drinking with friends can bring us closer because everyone's, you know, more ready, can more readily share their emotions. But it seems to also like get rid of a lot of inhibitions too and a lot of like higher functionings in decision-making. But yeah, I think that the reason why it seems so,

so, you know, why it gets a chuckle is because it's an interesting sin in that it's not one which always is obviously outwardly destructive. Yeah. So there's not always an out, it's like you think of like drinking and driving. It's like there's nothing that's ever really like fun or good about that. That's a great point. It's like people die. Yeah, that's a great point. You would never be like, yeah, he loves to get drunk

and drive. You never get. That's a great point. Yeah. The soul part of that would be it doesn't matter whether you hit someone, it's always going to be killing your soul. So that would be the, you know, the also deeply gravitas thing. So I think with the you know the a also deeply Gravitas thing so I think with the drinking there's that deep gravitas thing of it Having the possibility of all these awful things happening and therefore being a sin But there's also you know good which comes out of it at the same time. There's joy There's a connection to the emotions even when people are drunk

So you know not to say just because it's a sin nothing good can come of it right? But I think that there is that other side to it Which is it's you know it's clearly given as an example of a mortal sin and the catechism. Yeah Yeah, that's a really good insight. Thanks. Mm-hmm. I want to try this Blanton's yes. Yes It's a really good insight. Thanks. Mm-hmm. I want to try this Blanton's. Yes. Yes Blanton's has this sort of mystique about it and the box does to here if you'd observe with me Yeah, if you beautiful that camera will you show that? Yeah. Yeah, it beautifully presented Actually, the really neat thing about Blanton's is that there is a different racehorse With a letter to spell out each letter of the word

Blanton's. Really? Yeah. And so you'll people there's a very large community around collecting bottles and getting the chance at collecting each bottle to spell the word Blanton's. And they're they're terrific. Yeah. I do like McDonald's and try and get all the toys, you know.

Exactly. Yeah. And blends makes a racetrack, you know, that you can put your parks in, I know McDonald's and try and get all the toys, you know, exactly Yeah, and Ben's makes a racetrack, you know that you can put your parks in, you know, so there's a novelty to it Yeah, people just like stuff that isn't mass-produced right there's yeah I'm saying I don't know this is mass-produced, but there's a sense in which it's unique It is people just like so this is the coolest part. They'll handwrite the the bottle number They'll handwrite the batch number the date that it was bottled. That's cool. They pulled out of the barrel, you know, from the warehouse.

Yeah, that too. It did. Yeah. Yeah. That's a real nice bottle there. Yeah. And the funny thing actually with that Augusta, when I was at the store picking it out, he said, oh, I have two different barrels. And I said, oh, what do you mean? He said, I actually have two different barrels and they're different proofs. So I was able to look up the distinct barrel and someone had written taste differences between the barrels. I picked that one because it sounded more interesting to me. Yeah, yeah.

So this is this is Blanton's. Also a little bit difficult to find It's actually made by the same makers. It's out of Buffalo Trace distillery. So you know trace here Sazerac owns all of that and many more Old rip like all these are weller, you know Eagle rare like they're all from that same family And there's this real great wax, you know. That's nice. Yeah, I got a question I think this kind of feeds into what you do at new poly somehow Is that if we looked at this bottle here with the handwriting of the batch number the bottle number, etc and we looked closely and Discovered that it was actually printed but made to look as if it were written. We would all be disappointed. Totally. What is that?

fraud to look as if it were written, we would all be disappointed. Totally. What is that? Fraud. Being lied to, being tricked, is that what we don't like? I think so, yeah, I mean, there's something, not all of this is wrong, but I think whenever there's something hidden, we feel like we've been, this is actually true even on an intimate level, when something is hidden from us,

we haven't actually entered it. I kinda wanna just have some just to have some. I'm tired of the blind taste actually. We all know I can't tell the difference. Can you fill me up with that? Sure, let's just have a little bit. Unless you were hoping to have a couple others as well, I can give you a glass of it or?

Yeah, I'll have a glass of it. Okay, great. Just a little. I think the idea is that when we're not actually brought in to the full truth, we lack. But that said, if it was the other way around, if this was made to look printed and you look closely We're not actually brought in to the full truth We live you but that's it out It was the other way around if this was made to look printed and you look closely and you saw someone actually wrote it You'd be impressed. So that's this it's something else. It's it's no no

I don't think so if you looked at this and we're like, oh my gosh, someone actually wrote that Yeah, it looked like it was printed but it was actually hand-wrote. Yeah No, I think you wouldn't be offended at that point I would not be but you're offended in the other way around if it if it looks real but is printed. Yes, I think that because there's something there's something hidden that's going on they're trying to deceive you. Okay. Of a point of intimacy. They're not trying to deceive you if they actually hand-wrote the whole. No, of course not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're also not trying to deceive you if they printed it. It's like right. I know I'm getting yeah, you know

What I'm getting at though is obviously that good personal touch like we like the idea when things aren't Mass produced and I know it's mass produced whatever mass produced means but but when there's a personal some human being did this thing Here, it's it's special, it's nice. Yeah, absolutely. Cheers. All right, slainte. Well, I don't know, should we? Should we share our favorite toast?

My dear friend taught this to me many, many years ago and then I passed it on to you. I've been offending everybody with it. I love it. So we're about to share our favorite toast. We'll say it together. Yeah, all three, ready? How are we gonna do the little pause a pause and then we Man's wife my mother

Was have you heard that before there's like that second there was like you're a disgusting piece of crap. I had no idea I love you do that for was it father I Boniface Boniface whose father Boniface. Yeah, what do I do? You did that? That was the first time you were at my house that night in the next Forum to the you know, I'm so glad you had asked if you could use it. This is the best we've had all night I like it. Yeah, this is one of my favorite. goes amazingly well with a robot now. Here's what's interesting Oh, I bet yeah, here's what's really interesting. Yeah, Jacob won't be able to tell the difference between that and We're gonna test it all right here he is

I just don't believe it. I just gonna go over here. You know what he says they like particular. I feel like I'm being protected this evening. Look at this St. John the Baptist never drink alcohol He's gonna keep him close This is not this is not my favorite. I actually like the yeah, I like the first two. Whiskey is just the bringer of joy and nothing more. All right, all right Jacob. All right, here we go now Right right whiskey is just the bringer of joy and nothing more all right all right Jacob all right here We go now. We'll just remember just a few seconds ago. Jacob said that this was the best he's had all night

I'm on now. We're about to compare Blanton's with Echoes spring which is the $11 I'd like to revel in the honor for a little bit more than that But I could have brought the greatest bottle that Jacobs ever had no no this evening this evening This evening. It's the best of the evening. This is the best bottle that Jacobs ever had no no this evening this evening That you've brought to me that we've had most recently All right here we go here, you know, which is which don't you know, I don't know I don't know I watch it because he sees a he's a trickster. He's a tricky little fella Not little sneaky. He's quite massive. Okay, that's the echo springs

No, I'm just kidding We should do this with like coke, coke syrup. It would be as embarrassing. Significant difference. You don't, maybe you remember this, but when I first moved to Steubenville, you and your wife were so kind to basically give us your house for three months while you were studying at Oxford. And I was making the long road trip up with all my kids.

And you said, there's a nice whiskey in the decanter. Yeah. Yeah. There's something like the presentation is so much. I mean, you nice crystal decanter. It could have been the worst thing. It was the most delightful whiskey I've ever had after that long road trip. That was Echo Springs. You could tell.

It was a Scotch. That's what we're going to do next. We're going to do this Lagervullen versus Bourbon because we all It was a Scotch. That's what we're gonna do next. We're gonna do this Lagervullen vs. Berbin. Because we all know Scotch and Berbin are just very different animals. Then you'll just get a million comments of hate. Yeah, and if I get that one wrong. Yeah, right. Here's a question. When to ice and when not to ice?

Mmm. You know what? I don't, I just go based upon the movements of the moment, you know, yeah Yeah, I think that's like the I actually think that's like the question of when I have a cold beer versus a room temperature beer You I think you can pull out depends on what country you're in It's a sure sure that's a factor of the room as a taster I guess I would say if if you're you know If you're trying to really taste the full complexities of something you would have a room temperature over having it chilled

If you yeah, and then other beyond that it's a preference You know if you want a nice cold drink in the summer for me if it's a high alcohol content I like to have a nice in it, but I also like the idea of just you know if it's a hot day This is this is my thing too if it's winter, I like a scotch. Like a nice peaty scotch. But if it's a hot day and on my front porch, I wanna fill a glass up with as much ice as it can hold and then put a couple of fingers of bourbon in it.

That goes to my, the seasons of enjoying alcohol, I think. I would agree. I think a nice smoky scotch in the winter, it reminds me of a warm wood stove, you know, or a hot fire. And then a godfather in the summer on mostly ice. So good. A little bit of scotch with like some amaranth to sweeten it. Yeah.

People talk about, you know, you put a teaspoon of water in to open it up. I've heard that. What does that mean? So they will drop a little drop of water. They'd say it opens up the bouquet of like smells and flavor Yeah, I don't I I would be lying if I said I've ever noticed a difference I used to try to do that and then I just stopped I just Wouldn't bother dripping a drop of water and but yeah, they say it opens it up kind of like how you would aerate a wine

You know you're you to put it in a decanter Yeah, yeah. I'm going to do my ad read. Exodus 90 is a 90 day aesthetical program for men where you won't drink any of this beautiful bourbon or scotch or wine as Rob sets himself on fire. And on January 17th, thousands of men around the world, maybe it

might even be like upwards of 10,000 men around the world. That's just a guess. I have no empirical data to back that up. I'm going to be starting the 17th of January all the way through to Easter Sunday. And I did it a couple of years ago and it was bloody hard, but it was it was also good. Either of you ever done Exodus 90? You can sit there.

I can take a seat. You have to turn around. Yeah. Did you do the whole 90 days? Yes. Yeah. Exodus90.com slash Matt. There's a link in the description below. Check it out. Basically, there'd be like a small group of men like us three here and for 90 days we'd have cold showers. We'd not drink alcohol. We wouldn't snack between meals. We'd have three meals a day hour of prayer or at most three meals a day, an hour of prayer. You read through the book of Exodus. One of the coolest things about this is the brotherhood. You grow

in brotherhood. Like I can't see how many times like I'll text a friend I'm like I just really want to have a beer today and I don't you know or you just you struggle together. I mean we live in such a cushy environment you know you get into your car on a cold morning, you get a bum warmer. Like if there was ever a civil war, we'd be pathetic, you know, and have Wi-Fi on the field. Look at us. And you also got to limit your technology use a great deal. I would highly recommend people check this out. If you're a man, it's not for women, it's just for men because they're sexist.

Exodus 90 dot com slash Matt Exodus 90 dot com slash Matt. Check it out. They also have a modified version of Advent. So we're in the second week of Advent. If your Advent is sucking right now because you suck, then you could go to Exodus 90 dot com slash Matt sign up. And they've got different rules for Advent, different things to do. You don't take cold showers for Advent. So if that turns you off, you could try that. Check it out.

It's it's really good. And I'm a fan of it. I don't think I'll ever do it again Unless you you guys could probably convince me right now. I'm just about to try and convince you. You could probably convince Well, we're jumping in the Ohio River after this. So I'm still trying to get you guys to do that It's a good for you, you know, I would I would go for you know, a few months of cold showers rather than Going through what would inevitably be a DNA mutation that we would get from this part of the Ohio River. But Jacob, I've done it many times and I'm fairly normal.

That's how he became so cool. That's right, yeah. You didn't know how much cooler he was. Yeah, well maybe. But Dave, you ever done it? Exodus 90? No, I haven't. It's kind of cool. He was yeah, yeah, maybe Dave you done it It's 90. Yeah, no, I have it's kind of cool. I one of the things

He said to me was they they're trying to get away from dispensation culture Hmm, you know, it feels like in the church for always gonna dispensing people Oh, you know your tummy hurts or you can eat before mass So well only an hour before mass not midnight and fish on Fridays We have to do that anymore and and fine, you know, like I'm not criticizing people who'd say, I'm gonna eat meat on Friday, right? But there's something kind of masculine and cool about taking your faith seriously

and getting real about it, so. I'll tell you what, I wish I was a salesman for them because I loved it. I mean, it was incredible, yeah. We did the, you know, as best I could, the whole nine yards of it, you know, I still, I still opt for cold showers more often than not. Is that right?

Yeah. Well, first of all, because they say it's really good for you as a man. And secondly, there's something really beautiful about that specifically that like always drew me to prayer, like in the shower in the most like just odd of places as you know Five in the morning six in the morning and you know take a cold shower Yes, and you're like this is really profound and I just beautiful mode of prayer It's here on Sundays that they allow you to relax one rule. Yep, and they say you know do this responsibly Don't be and don't go overboard. But I remember we had this

at my old house in Atlanta, we used to have these uh Monthly get-togethers. We even had a time where we had 120 people show up. We just tell everyone, come, bring something to share, the end. And it was amazing. But the reason I'm bringing this up is me and the four other fellows who did XS90 with me, we all kind of broke away from the crowd and sat down on this bench and all had our little drink together,

just the one drink. But there was something so bonding about that. Yeah, it's kind of cool. Would you mind shutting that window? It's kind of cool, isn't it? Yeah. Thank you, Rob. Yeah. Thank you. Yes, I'm actively sweating. Yeah, I'm very warm-blooded.

That's what he wants to jump in the river. That's right, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, the cold showers was the thing. So one of the random things that I was looking at before we joined here tonight, apparently alcohol lowers your testosterone. Talk about that. I know very little.

I'm not a scientist. There it is, I talked about it. But not substantially, but kind of regular drinks would do that, you know, a fair bit. So I think that's kind of, I don't know what to make of that, you know, because there's, not that it matters all too much, but I think talking about this culture of masculinity.

That's dying and stuff like that. It's funny that masculinity is associated with drinking so much, right? People are like, you're having a drink, go have a drink. And the fact that it lowers your testosterone is counterintuitive. It's just crazy. Yeah, right.

But it makes sense in a certain regard because the fullness of masculinity is found in virtue. And so, going overboard is, you're defeating that. There's actually like a physical sign of that within excessive drinking. I got a question for you, but I wanna let people know in the live chat, we're gonna take some questions.

So if you're in the live chat right now, or if you're watching this live, put a question, if you at Pines for the Quietness, that'll be easier to see them, and we'll start reading your questions soon. but I got a question for each of you. I want each of you to answer this. If you could only drink one type of alcohol for the rest of your life. And I don't mean whiskey like scorch bourbon like one particular drink.

You know, I'm saying I have I made that clear enough. Yeah. Yeah, I think so for the rest of your life What would it be Neil? Um? For me I'd say Honestly, it'd be beer because for me Soda a lot when I was young and then I Decided at one point that this is just like a kind of like a milkshake with every meal that I'm having so I'm

Gonna just do water. Yeah, it's gonna be like a special thing to do soda because it is a lot of sugar Yeah, it's a lot so for me when I drink beer. It's cuz I like like I think that they can get pretty complex and pretty Intricate and interesting to drink and there's a lot of variety across beers, but it's also um Like you get a sugar rush to with it, but it's also, like, you get a sugar rush too with it. So it's like drinking like soda at the same time as, you know, so it's like a two for one experience that I really like. All right, let me press you here and say what type of beer? You only get one type of beer for the rest of your life. What would it be? What's tough about this is you might change

your opinion in five years. You might your palate might change entirely. But like one type of beer. When I say type, I don't mean a brand. I mean, like IPA, Stout, Porter's, Lager's. I think like a like a I want to say like an ale, not an IPA,

not like the like super hoppy ones, but I don't love stouts as much, you know, it depends on the day, depends on the season. But I think that like just a sweet ale, like, I don't know, I've had some that are basically just fancy, like blue ribbons that I really like. And I think of that as like the quintessential ale, ale, whatever that is. Okay, sweet. Rob. What about you? Yeah, this is easy for me. I would say and I'll give a specific shot say IPA's Um not because I'm a huge fan of them necessarily over other things, but for the longest time now My dad and I have been splitting it will go and we'll split one in just one in the night and we'll describe it to

Each other and really enjoy it together. I love your relationship with your dad by the way. It's so cool. I do too. I'm so blessed. Yeah, I'm gonna tear up, you know. We've been making beers together now, mostly, well so far IPAs I guess, yeah, and we grow hops together and things like that and it's just like, it's such a beautiful relational thing. So you'd forsake bourbon, vodka, wine? I would. I would for that Why not? Here's the thing. I would forsake that experience with my father if I if I if I gave up beer. Yeah Um, and I've recently been he's been enjoying tasting You know the log of villain and other things like that with me

But it started with beer and so I wouldn't I wouldn't want to take that away from us you know so yeah yeah Jacob Habibi yeah I might I might have to say beer as well I'm reminded though of that you know we should say the great verse I think I think it's a verse you know that in wine there's truth in there is freedom and in water. There's bacteria But so yeah, I'd either go for for truth or freedom probably freedom. Yeah, yeah Yeah, but we should point out that you're starting a brewery here in superman People are watching right now and they're working from home and they're looking for a good Catholic community to move to they could move here and Tell us a little bit about your brewery. This isn't meant to be an ad.

It's cool that you're starting one. Well, we are starting one. It's just on the other side of the street that we're on. It's going to be kind of a Belgian Travis style. We're going to be able to have a real place for people to gather. The Nelson's across the street was the first first place that we really had in town. And we're trying to actively give people productive property. This have something a company that they call their own.

So we're starting as a where real profits will be shared equally amongst all of our workers. And so hopefully people will actively be able to exercise some creative control over it as well. I think people have to be raised up into ownership as well. But I'm looking forward to having a name of the brewery. Well, it's a perfect time. It's we're going to name it Ambrose Brewing Company. Tomorrow is his feast day.

Our main brewer has a great devotion to St. Ambrose. My beloved godfather died on St. Ambrose's feast day. So pray for Walter tomorrow, if you would. And we're really excited to have all the debates from Pines with Aquinas there and you know, they had televisions, too No, of course not. She's beautiful creating a space where people can sit and be together large bookshelves, you know I'm so proud of you. You're a double buck. It's gonna be great Now if I was to answer that question, you're the first thing that came to my mind was wine like a nice pinot noir I like the kind of light red. Yeah, it's nothing nice about wine

You can enjoy quite a bit of it without I think feeling the effects like you could have a couple of glasses like Back when my wife was healthier, which split a whole bottle and neither of us would feel yeah too bad We just feel great. It's your great. I like wine. What's something beautiful about wine? Yeah, if I could it's hard to say it's like a summer like a summer day What am I gonna do have a glass of wine like a loser? You know, but wine is nice on a summer day I don't know man. I'm gonna say wine Wow, just shock myself I would say one if you will allow me any kind of red Not even white, you know

Here you do have to pick one I do I'd say you know noir right now. Okay. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I'm over the cab. They're too gr run. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I'm over the cab They're too gritty too dark. Yeah. Yeah, you can have a warm or cold to you. Do you know my? Warm or cold what pin and well, I'm saying you could yeah, that's right. So you get in the summer or winter Yeah, there you go. I'm gonna say wine. That's crazy You know my wife and I were in Australia or a couple years ago we were flying in New Zealand and We had a savignon Blanc. And I hate white wine.

I've never liked it. It just kind of, I don't know. I heard some people describe it as the wine for people who don't like wine here. Yeah. But so they they gave us one of these Sauvignon Blancs. And I sat there and I just I was on a plane and my wife and I were like like I have never tasted anything like this it was the most delicious floral complex refreshing drink. Wow. Yeah airlines man. Yeah New Zealand air or whatever they are but yeah so that's if you're out there and you like wine and you're

open to white try a Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand because they're golly delicious Well go New Zealand, you know, I think I'm just kind of thinking along here with why Catholics like alcohol so much And I think it has to do with something like we like the joys worth suffering for Like you take something like the the killing of, the killing of grain that actually makes something reveal its true flavor. And, you know, and whether than just like a chemical cocktail of a soda or or even just juicing something, there is, I think there's, and there's something also obviously fitting with that with wine and Christ's selection to see that it's symbolic insofar as it in itself kind of hints at what

it is and insofar as it's his sacrificial drink too, but it has been crushed, it has been tried, it has been, you know, has suffered in a sense. You know, Christ's first miracle was to make alcohol. I don't say that flippantly. That is actually just what happened factually. And the response that you get from some Protestants, obviously many Protestants drink beer, but there's a fringe minority of people there who would seek to demonize it. It's like all of your answers are just so unconvincing. Like I even even hear people try to say like, well, grape juice. It's what it was or something silly like that. But it wasn't. That's not.

No, it was not. It's just you quoted Ecclesiasticus. Sirac. Which one is isn't Sirac sometimes called. You got Ecclesiasticus in Syria. But well, because you questioning all my Catholic self. The reason I say this is because Aquinas has said Contra. He quotes two scripture verses to show that one can drink alcohol. The first is and he doesn't quote is Ecclesiastes.

You're right. Yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't quote. Well, it's a quietness quotes what you just quoted. I don't know if you knew that. Yeah. Yeah. I went to chapter 30 Well, it's a quietness quotes what you just quoted. I don't know if you knew that. Yeah. Yeah. I went to chapter 30 because of that. Yeah.

Quite as quoted Jacob. Yeah. But like he doesn't quote John too, which is interesting. That never comes into discussion. It could have, but it doesn't. But his said contra is like, did I say something wrong there? Because it was supposed to be fine. The first thing he quotes is Timothy like like Paul suggests drinking wine.

Yeah. Yeah. So he said Contra is the so to somebody who would say you should never drink alcohol. It's always a sin. Shouldn't the apostle says, do not still drink water, but use a little wine for my stomach sake and I frequent infirmities. And it is written Ecclesiastes wine drunken with moderation is the joy of the soul and the heart. Yeah, but to that point I made earlier the reason it's a joy to the soul and the heart isn't because it tastes so good.

It's because of the physiological effect that has. Absolutely, right? I think I think it can be but at least personally my experience is both as I shared, like with what my experience with my father is, is like you could take away the beer and we could enjoy something else together. You like we do. We'll enjoy a cheese, a good cheese or sardines. And that's still gross, man.

Cheese and sardines. Yeah. That and oysters and yeah, all of it. Cheese and sardines together. Uh, maybe if it's limber. Yeah. Cheese on. Yeah. With some onion. Yeah. Cheese and sardines together Yeah with some onion yeah, actually we do in a little bit of salt It smells like horse manure, but it tastes amazing. Hey speaking of horse manure You told me of a drink that you wanted me to smell. Yeah, okay, so

This good question. I believe 2020 Okay, couple of questions. Well, everyone was saying everyone Everyone was saying what their favorite choice was. Oh, what were they saying? Just all kinds of things. We have wine. Cider was an interesting answer. Oh, people have tried to like revivify cider in the wake of gluten-free-ness craze. They have failed.

I think they have failed. They did. They've really tried to make it look masculine. They'll have these little stories on the back of cider bottles that angry orchard. Yeah. Yeah Apple wine is great there. Yeah. Yeah, my friends have been to a cidery, which is like a brewery, but they're all side your friend Did that yeah, yeah, it's like yeah, somebody said moonshine, which I don't know if I believe them So you know another thing that just kind of because we're bringing out a lot of scripture

to defend wine. And actually this is no opponent of it. But do you remember that part in Isaiah 49 when God says that he will make his enemies drunk? No. I don't remember that. Well there's a part in Isaiah, I think it's chapter 49

where he says he'll make his enemies drunk And you know and it is he's saying like drunk on blood you know trying to coax them into wars that they will not win and I think there is something with the You know the false valiance the like the foam a cheese mo that you get from drinking that that valiance, like the foe machismo that you get from drinking, that leads you into places you ought not be, into wars that you will not win, not only because you have a low testosterone, apparently, because you've been drinking, but there is the false sense of prudence. And even in that chapter of Ecclesiasticus that St. Thomas is citing, it commands us not to be valiant with wine, which is another, you know, it's nothing something to trying

like coax your machismo with, you know, it's nothing to make a competitive activity, even though it is something you do with your dudes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know activity even though it is something you you do with your dudes. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, there's maybe a little bit of that to back to your question about youth, you know, and we'll go get drunk together You know, yeah. Yeah of That fo You go up Isaiah 49 26 Messers eat their own flesh. They will be drunk on their own blood as with wine

Then all mankind will know that I the Lord am your Savior. Yeah, that's one Yeah, cool. Thank you. Good Jacob So you had all right about this just a reminder people in the chat send us your questions you I said it's your comments I see that's an interesting enough comment. We'll read it. And so you go, sorry. Let's smell the cork first. So this for some reason showed up on the, I believe it's top 10 bottles under $40, or under 50, 40, something like that for 2020. It's a rare breed.

It's from wild turkey and it's a rye. I've never tasted a rye or smelled a rye. It's anything remotely like this. And I took it back to the store and I told them, smell this and get me another one She was because I thought it was skunked you smell it smell the court. Well, you tell me what it smells like. Oh Really? I love scum. Oh, I don't say yeah, let's say and then okay just show us your facial expression It's got a skunk. It's not not like skunk skunk. Yeah like bad. I like that. Really? Do you might enjoy it?

That there's a distinctness to this that's so unique Yeah, I've never ever smelled. What would you say it smells like I? Do you want to say first well? I think you've got bad cabbage Yeah, I think it smells like a musty basement or like a 40 year old 40 year old like does it all must that was never Washed and more than every day. That's so specific Yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah like soccer socks in the back of your car in the summertime. Yeah, if you don't mind, pour a little bit in there. I, and great.

If you enjoy this, I'll send it home with you because I don't. At all. But you know, while drinking, there's some, yeah, they do great stuff. To be honest, the same line, this rare breed, the non-rai is amazing. Yeah, it's great. I like Rye because I get like more of a peppery taste from it. Is that am I right? Generally, yeah, along those lines.

Yeah, yeah. I like a high Rye bourbon. Yeah, I like Rye because I love Rye. I also can't tell the difference between any bourbon. So don't believe what I just said. We should buy this because you'll know the difference. Oh, you get that right in the nasal right in the sinuses Yeah, thanks, I think I want it's right up here

Does it actually start like that was just this or I didn't mean to do that Yeah was just visceral. I didn't mean to do that. Are you eating a velvet suit right now? Yeah. Yeah. Found in stupid ability. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't if you did a blind test, I don't think I could tell. But maybe I'm I don't know. Maybe you're so committed to the theory at this point.

I just wanted to be there. No, I think you've proved it to us. I have. Yeah, you're welcome, everybody. And this is good news. This is what I said to Rocco. I tried saying this to Rocco. You haven't gotten him. No, I can't get him. Yeah. But I think I can. Yeah, well're welcome, everybody. And this is good news. This is what I said to Rocco. I tried saying that we haven't gotten him. No, I can't get in. But I think I can. Yeah, well, we could try to get you.

You try. Yeah, we can try. I will be unsuccessful. No, I don't. I don't know if you necessarily will. There's a lot of things here that I haven't tasted. And again, I guess my point is like, if you like, well, this is slightly better. That's slightly like I'm going to pay 40 dollars more for slightly better. Or am I going to be cool and buy Echo Spring? Let's see. Does it have a cool story? No. Oh, here's the story. Government warning. According to the surgeon.

No. Yeah. Should we take a couple of questions and then we'll there was one that I thought was interesting is he was, it's a $2 super chat he was saying he's... Thank you, what's his name? It's Carrie Nevins. So thank you Carrie Nevins. He's saying he's gonna get two cocktails on his wedding and he wants you guys to pick one for him. That is amazing! I agree. Exactly. Do you? Yeah, Godfather. Godfather's really good. What do you think? Well, I was just thinking of the white lady Cuz the immaculate conception is coming up. That's beautiful. What's the white lady? So you have it's lemon chin and

Gosh, what's the third super simple? What is this last one? Mm-hmm seltzer Catholic I'm still thinking about it. I'm so think why don, you will tell a joker I'm white lady. I'm still thinking about it. Why don't you tell us about the Godfather. Yeah Godfather, the way that I prefer it and it seems you do as well is you do about a regular pour of maybe red label or a decent scotch or not necessarily something smoky like a Highland scotch and then you just add little bits of amaretto until it's just sweet enough. So you don't want to over sweeten it or you lose the taste of the whiskey.

It is delicious. The idea is taste the whiskey without the harshness. Okay, do that one. It's amazing. What's in the White Lady? A White Lady is gin, orange liqueur, and lemon juice, and an egg white. Oh gross. You don't have to do that.

You can do that. You can do that first and then egg white. Gross. No, you don't have to do that. You can first and then just put it on. They froth the egg white just so it's a foam on the top. It's an experience thing. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So what are we gonna do? Let me think of one.

A good cocktail. I don't even know if I know. No, he only gets two anyway. He said so. No, but we're gonna pick one for this dude to do. Out of these three. That's right. Wait, months.

Can you ask Mr. Nevens? He's gonna put in the chat. If he does. Sorry. Now, I have a very good old fashion. Now, there are a lot of bad old fashions. It's very easy to make an old, a bad old fashion. But I will say, the steak house across the road in Weirton.

Oh yeah. They make it, depending on the bartender, they make it nice old fashion. You know, a couple years ago, we had a fundraiser for Mary seat of wisdom, the homeschool co-op here at Mark Barnes house. And it was so much fun. It was just such a great night. We said the night was punctuated by different courses and in between each course,

you tried to build a gingerbread house and whoever, you know, build the best, you know, got wild. I love it. Wild praise for the rest of the evening. And so good. But his brother made old fashions that he gets a huge jug of all the fashions. And I have to say that was the best old fashion that yeah, Joe did a great job. Okay. So what are we going to come down on? I think Godfather. That's what I'd say Yeah, well, I mean it sounds delicious. If you care. It's cheap. It's a it's an easy drink It's yeah, there's no frothing of things right? But I'd say Godfather if you care about our opinion, that's what I'd say cool, but I want to try yours as well

I do well this one White lady. Yeah Oh, you know we have to do it over at the new polity building cuz so many people are speaking to that's so nice It's gonna be far. I will be my RCP. No, you got Actually, I don't even know if I can come tomorrow. I'm I I'm think I'm hosting a debate tomorrow night Yeah, that's nearby. Am I? This yeah, I'm hosting a debate in the Eucharist isn't this this amazing savory. I'm adding this to my cigar board It's amazing probably at a five four four and a half, five, yeah.

Very savory, smooth, consistent all the way through. Yeah, it's very good. It's delicious, yeah. Yeah, Southern draw, Soli Deo Gloria, for anyone who wants to know. Everyone can tune in tomorrow at 7.30 p.m. Come for the first two hours of the party. Dr. Stephen Simmons and Dr. Brett Stoltenberg.

Yeah, so we got two folks, two PhDs who are gonna be discussing the E two hours. The first and Dr. Brett. Yeah. So we got two folks to two PhDs who are going to be discussing the Eucharist. One bloke from Canada. He's a diocesan theologian and he wrote a good book on transubstantiation. So they're going to it won't be

an official debate. It'll be more of an adversarial pleasant discussion. Goodwill discussion. So tune in for that if you want. Hmm. Man what other questions we got? I'm kind of curious if there was any.

Well, I wanted to add on to the question of which cocktail, just a general opinion of cocktails, because I don't know if I'd say this anymore, but I used to have the opinion that it was kind of like for coffee drinkers, there's the people who drink like black coffee and are interested in finding all the flavors. But then there's, you know, people who get all the different flavors of drinks, like the pumpkin spice so-and-so, or one or two. Right.

And not to like look down on that, but it's like if I'm looking for a really, really good roast, the person who's interested in the syrup drinks, like that's a different experience. So they're not going to have much input. And then I kind of thought the same thing for cocktails, but then I don't know, I've had some really good cocktails. That's a good point. So I don't know.

So just to sort of rephrase what you're saying here, like just like when I go to a coffee shop and my wife asks for like an almond milk, like decaf, honey, that kind of thing. And I'm like just want to black. It seems like it's more respectful to desire like the essence of it. Like what is this flavor? You know, it's like a more of a refined thing and so you're kind of like making that analogy where you're kind of asking are cocktails just like the Frappuccinos of the alcohol world, but you're saying but you're realizing that's not the case

Yeah, and also to not look down on frappuccinos because then the bomb good. Yeah, they have their place Yeah, maybe it depends. Yeah, what do you think though? Because I mean when when you have a cocktail are you Is it is it very important? I guess it depends on how much is in it, but are you is it very important that the liquor's good? Well, I mean if you're just going for a vodka martini or something like that or gin martini You're gonna want some nice vodka next year because there's just very little that's a good one. Yeah Yeah, it's it's funny you mentioned that because I was gonna say if I didn't say Godfather I would say like a dirty martini. I love yeah, I can't replicate a good one We try and get it tell this story. Oh my god, Rob over the other night. I'm like dude. Let's make dirty martinis And so we got some

We got vodka and gin and then I, and I've got these beautiful olives and they were green olives from Frederico's. Oh yeah. Great shop. Oh my gosh. Great shop. It's just extraordinary shop. And I had blue cheese in the middle. Get the trini. The trini. It's amazing.

It's a type of pasta cut, you know. It's amazing. Never had anything better in my life. Me being silly and not having much experience with this, just assumed that like olive or like juice was the same thing as whatever came with the green olive. So I'm tipping this in and basically it was like drinking vodka and olive oil. So that's the problem is these olives came in oil not in olive juice.

Yeah. So we tried to shake the thing up and it's like it looks like a dressing that you didn't quite like you know it's like can you just take it kind of a pistol mortar and just cutting no I mean it was like you know the the liquor slid down the throat and then the oil stuck in the wall so that it was just a heavy layer coating. I even went to the Wilkers and I got a little shaker thing and I was like really excited imagine like blue cheese soaked oil it was in it stuck in your mouth. It wasn't great. You failed at that one. It was bad. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh. My last vodka, dirty vodka martini, I was out with my buddy Roy, when I was back in England a few weeks ago. And oh my gosh, you know, we sat down and we both looked at one another. And we, like, he said, you know what I'm feeling?

I said, what? And he goes, dirty vodka martini. That is exactly what I had in mind. It was awesome. It was just such a good time the little I can tell from the limited experience I've had with dirty martinis is I much prefer vodka than a gin. Mm-hmm. I prefer the opposite Do you was that I love the herbal taste of gin, you know, I do too just not with the green olive taste Hmm. Yeah, I think it depends on how you've had it made maybe do or how I've had it It's right. Yeah, I've never really so they had it made the best the best dirty Martini I've ever had was a gin martini

I got it. I got it me. I do like the more kind of girly martinis like the kind of like coffee martini Yeah, yeah a good margarita on a beach a good margarita. I've never been able to do it Delicious but I will say like the older I've got and the more I've come to appreciate Mascale Oh a good moscow. You had a moscow Sure moscow is like a smoky tequila. It's like it's like Lagervullen is to Glen Fittich. It's delicious. It's supposed to be like it was supposed to be like what tequila it was like the cowboy tequila where tequila came from I guess Mezcal. Mezcal however you say it. And someone someone taught me this it was a

bartender I thought it was fascinating they said when it comes to bourbons the question is how long has it been aged in the barrel? Like after you've made it? He said with mezcal and tequila, the question isn't about after, the question is about before. Like how old is the agave plant that you're using? Isn't that fascinating? That's cool. So, but I've found I would much prefer agave, sorry, not agave, a ton of lime juice mezcal on the rocks is delicious.

And I'd prefer that to any margarita at this point. I'll make you one. Awesome. That sounds great. A dear friend of mine introduced me to tequilas last summer. We were building his deck and it was hot days out in the evenings, like building this deck. And the sun would go down, the night would cool, and we'd sit on this like nice cool fresh smelling, you know treated wood

Looking up at the stars and sipping just a little bit of this. It was it's called trace This is black bottle with a gold top. It looks really nice. It tastes oaky and cedar and it's in dirt It tastes like dirt, you know, and yeah, I had never tasted a tequila by itself before I always thought you don't do that Yeah, but it's amazing. That, that's right, because you grow up and the idea is like lemon juice shoot. Yeah. Which is like an abuse of alcohol really. Like it's not actually appreciating it.

Right. Yeah. The priest that married my wife and me, it was the night before our wedding, the evening before and it was, after our kind of rehearsal dinner, like a whole bunch of family came over for for some drinks and stuff. And we filled up my wife's family entire canoe with just a ton of beers and whatever else, just a variety of things. Where did you get the canoe from? Was it a gift?

No, it's just they have a canoe. They're kind of outdoorsy and all that. And so the priest kind of leans over and he grabs something he goes What's this in my my cousin who's total frat guy everything, you know, he looks over he's like, oh, yeah That's actually like hard club soda. Can't taste the alcohol. It's awesome I'm the priest pretty analytical guy and he goes, you know, actually I'm not sure if I would like that No, I don't think I would in fact the alcohol taste is the only reason I drink. So that would defeat the entire purpose. But he was like, he's slowly reasoning there. It was awesome.

He's totally defeated this guy who was just pounding shots for the sake of pounding shots. Yeah, who's awesome. That's incredible. The mezcal bottles that we get, mezcal, Who's awesome. That's incredible. The mezcal bottles that we get, mezcal, they have a worm and an agave worm on the bottom of it. And our house rule is whoever is, to draw the last of the bottle has to eat the worm.

And you have to eat it, you have to chew it 10 times before you swallow it down and you can't chase it. That's the rule. I don't think that would bother me at all. Okay, yeah. Wouldn't that just taste like- I'll save the worm for you. Maybe it would.

But remember what he said. But what does just taste like- I'll save the worm for you. Maybe it would. Remember what he said. But what does it taste like? Just tastes like vodka. Yeah, the worm saturated a bit. Is it the idea of it? It's squishy and it's a little dirty. You want another drink? Yeah.

Oh, you like the buffalo. I'm going for a little more of this. And I've got to do a blind taste on you before we wrap up. You do. So let's do that instead. Let's do that instead. We can take our time here. But yeah, being from a... What is this though? Sorry.

Oh no. You keep talking. Yeah. Catholic Jamie bought that for me. Oh, Catholic Jamie, you're the man. That's the best one I've had in Georgia. And yeah, he can't tell the difference between Echo Springs and this one. Should we do a test on you to see? Yeah, I'm up for it. I'm up for it.

You want to get those two glasses for him and see if we can do one more? Oh my gosh, this says Lita on it! That's how unclassy this is. I always drink it that way. Lita is bigger than Echo Spring on the neck. That's fabulous. So making a grog glass here. Which again, doesn't matter if it's Old Bourbon, it's all the same. Alright, here we go. So all bones all the same yeah you're

saying that bottomless bottle this is the Catholic Jamie we're doing our $11 Echo spring with what he says is the best bourbon he's had this is me just This is scandalizing actually. Yeah, yeah, shame you people. I do have kind of like a counter take, Matt, is that I think that it's, cause I've watched videos before that are really interesting where they have like Sommeliers come in and they make them taste two different wines and they have to tell which one's the thousand dollar one.

And they're talking about like, oh, this one's very complex. And it's not that they're wrong. They reveal at the end of the video that they're both box wines. Neither of them are the nicer ones. Wow, yeah. So it's this interesting idea of like, the value can make us taste it better.

Yeah. Because it makes us focus in more on it. Yes. And I would argue that the expensive fancy stuff is like which one if you are on a desert island which one would have more to it if that makes sense. More to it? Like more depth. Yeah.

If you had to drink it more than once. Alright, here we go now. Go deep into it. Do you know which is which there Rob? So just for those at home, we've got an eleven dollar Echo Spring. The best bourbon around. Man, I should have Echo Spring pay. And then and then the best bourbon Catholic, Jamie said he's ever had.

And we'll see. Don't. Oh, yeah. All right. Go on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. go on yeah Yeah What's that one That mics on right they can hear yeah, yeah We get a camera for Catholic Jamie so mmm you know that can you tell oh sorry so he can't really tell cuz he's got a

confused face for everybody this is my point the point I have continually and consistently and accurately my point man the point of my point is that I am superior I wish you would go and buy an $11 bottle it's exactly the same The point of my point is that I am superior Go and buy an $11 bottle it's exactly the same you wouldn't know the difference And if you did know the difference it wouldn't be that big of a deal You make the same claim about all scotches though, you know that okay Lagervillen 16 is the greatest whiskey I have ever had in my life I remember I the first time I bought Lagervillen was when it was cheap because I'm a hundred years old So it was back when I worked at Catholic cancers in San Diego, and I bought a bottle from

Costco for about 60 bucks now They're about 120 depending on where you get it. Bit cheaper, but. And I sat on my front porch and I, it was a mystical experience. I mean, it was just terrific. I absolutely agree. Do you?

Yeah. It is a good one. And then you and I have tried some different Lagavolans, like the Ron Swanson edition. Yeah. But it wasn't as good. It wasn't as good, was it? No, I took away the smoke, yeah.

Sounds cool. Like Guinness. It's fun, it's rare. It's fun. But it's- It just reminds you how sweet of a nectar Lagervill and 16 is. It's okay, we're gonna have that.

The 18 though. Okay, just so everybody knows, Neil's still trying to tell the difference. He is. Even if he's right. Well, he tries to figure it out. You should do your ad and I'll go to the bathroom. Yeah, just so everybody can tell here,

can I see this here? Echo Spring versus Southern Bourbon Whiskey. This is the best bourbon Neil said he's ever had and he can't really tell the difference between an $11 bottle. Yeah, not really. I think this one is a better experience. But my suspicion is this one's the... Do you remember? I do remember. Yeah. Is he right?

He is correct. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I do like this one more. So you got it remember? I do remember. Is he right? He is correct, yeah. I do like this one more. So you got it right. It's not as strong. The Echo Springs. He likes Echo Springs more. He likes Echo Springs more. You like Echo Springs more?

He likes the $11 bottle. I mean, we've tried a lot of different whiskies this evening. You know, and I think your palate just gets mixed up, man. No, I'm sorry. I think you're right. Yeah, but we all have, you had a blind test in the beginning and did I as did I we couldn't tell then Well, I'm actually drinking whiskey before but I think I mean this is our first time we all got Correct even blind we got it, but I didn't like the the nice one Like the first one. I just didn't like it. No one of us didn't get it. I got it right. No, no, Neil

Oh, no, Neil. No, Neil I probably did get it wrong, but I Didn't like that. I don't remember now the nicer one. We do a two-minute break Then we'll we'll be back taking your questions Yeah, don't do the ads is the two minute All right. I just clicked a click play. So just for those at home, Jacob said, did you have any food?

And I'm like, would you eat honey? And he's like, yes. And that's why he's doing it. If it's crystallized. Yeah, I don't think it's going to be possible. You're chewing that. Can we like call our families to like bring us food? Yeah, amazing.

We're working our butts off here. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to need a calzone. Oh, it's cold. All right, all right. Is it cold? Speaking of families, oh, well, he's leaving. But Mrs. Pretzel is in chat.

Mrs. Pretzel is in chat. Rings. And there was someone else, actually. Wait, my wife? Can you turn that light off out there? My wife's in the chat? Mm-hmm. And she was asking for rings.

She's in the chat. Inside it. Come on in there. I need you. What does Miss Pretzel say? She's asking about... Misses, I'm sorry. Yes, of course.

Get that right. Asking about rings. She's asking too. There was someone else also asking about rings. Oh yeah, that was the other person. First of all, what is... I love that your name is Pretzel. Yeah.

Yeah. I do too. What does it mean? It's not your name is pretzel. Yeah. Yeah, what is it? What is it? What does it mean? It's not spelled the same as a print. Oh, yes, you spelled traditionally. There's an umlaut over one of the letters And so it is pronounced pretzel the word in traditional German actually means little prayer and it came from During Lent, they would pass around these little prayers, like these little bakery-sized treats that looked like folded arms in prayer, right? Like prostrated prayer. And if you look, if you trace out my arms, and if you were to turn a pretzel, the way you know it upside down, it would look like arms in prayer. And so the way you know the pretzel's actually upside down. It's supposed to be flipped over. Yeah, to remind people to pray.

Next time you're here, we're gonna have a bowl of pretzels. We really should have done this. That was an oversight on our part. Yeah, if our wives were planning this, they'd be like, well, obviously they're gonna need food. Look at all this whiskey. Whereas I'm like, I have congealed honey. Crystallized honey.

You know this must be part of the secular attack on Christianity. The only place that we've ever seen a pretzel the right way is actually surprisingly in downtown Disney. They have a pretzel shop and the sign, the pretzel is the right way. If Disney knew that, I bet they would turn it up. Absolutely.

Yeah. Any other? Oh, hey, one thing I got to say before we go to a question is hello is a fantastic. Hello to you too, which you should download immediately. Hello.com slash Matt Fradd. I think you're left a little bit like that. Perfect. Hello.com slash Matt Fradd. Slash Matt Fred, I think Like that Hello calm slash Matt Fred, it's an app that will help you pray

I just had a bloke on the other day who studied to be a yoga teacher He was big into yoga and there's a bunch of new age kind of apps online mindfulness apps I think a lot of people get sucked into this because they're aware that they have anxiety They're aware that they want more peace in their life So they naturally go to the app store and look up some kind of peace, calm kind of app. And some of those things are pretty good, but they also lead into some really kind of erroneous and bad ways of thinking. How is 100% Catholic?

It's the number one downloaded Catholic app. And they've done it really well. I say this a lot, but we used to say things like it's good for a Catholic this or that. It's good for a Catholic website. It's good for, but this is just the amazing app. I downloaded, you're that hot, I'm freezing. I downloaded the best meditation app on, back when I had a smartphone and I played around with it.

And then I downloaded Hello. I redownloaded it because I had an update and it's better. It's better. It's absolutely better. So I would highly encourage you if you have a smartphone and you want to get better at praying to go to hello.com slash Matt Fradd they have free stuff. So if you download the app right now, you can use it but to

get access to all of it go to hello.com slash Matt Fradd. You can try out the whole app for free for a month and also they're doing daily meditations throughout Advent as well. So if you haven't crushed Advent and you wanna be better at it, you could, if you wanted to, go to hello.com slash Matt Fradd. My wife and I have both used it.

And while I'm open to promoting things I'm not super enthusiastic about, like if there are any mattress companies, I would totally sell out. But I mean it when I say and now they send me a free matter But I mean it when I say this is a terrific app and it's really good faithful people and you're gonna find faithful Catholic content at hello comm slash Matt Fred There you go. That was my second ad read. It was good on

We have a $20 super chat from John Mott I think a discussion about drinking alone often and moderately, a regular nightcap after the family goes to bed, I'm more interested in the morality of the habit, and then also he's asking about distinguishing between being buzzed and drunk, which I think that might be a separate conversation, but people were talking about that earlier when we were first starting the episode and you were talking about being drunk being a sin That specific distinction. Yeah, so those are two great questions. I want to say something about the first I'd love to get your guys's take on it

Yeah, so the question is, you know drinking alone the morality of drinking alone and I think like the same thing You could say that drinking alone could be problematic without saying it's a sin, I think. Or if it's a sin, I don't think it. I mean, provided you're not getting drunk, right? Or drinking to excess. You could say that it's a sin for different reasons. Like, maybe I'm avoiding certain things

that I ought to be engaging in and doing because I'm just always stressed out. And this is the way I'm coping. And again, I'm not talking about being drunk. So I think you could maybe say there's something there, maybe the sin of sloth or maybe some other sin. But in and of itself, while it might be less conducive to whatever alcohol is supposed to do,

I wouldn't say it's a sin unless you're getting drunk. But I definitely heard people say things like you should never drink alone and that might be good wisdom, but I still don't think you could say it's a sin. Right. You'd still want to employ what Aquinas is saying when he's talking about whether alcohols are said or not. Right. Yeah. I mean, there's the place I would start with saying look where we're reading these questions. This is like what you're opening up

right here in the Summa, like what section it is. It's, you know, in his major treatise on virtue and vice. And virtue and vice is really important to understand within the Catholic tradition as something that comes after law. It is what we are supposed to move into to be born out of. Whereas law is something that's directional, it's a guide, it's a teacher. It's not an absolute in and of itself, it doesn't end in and of itself. There's the creativity that comes with a heart that is captured by Christ and loved with Christ and thus actually has, once again, assumed our proper role as humans to be creative in the way that we're living out the world and enacting love within it.

That's maybe a bit too theoretical, but all to say is that rules such as you should never drink alone are good as you're getting started, but ultimately we are supposed to graduate in the Christian life to the virtues, which is where the creative life is, where you know yourself, what you can handle, what's good for you, what actually is the best way of loving God and loving neighbor. And at that point, you are free. There's certain things that are just always sins, but at another point, something like drinking alone is something that could be sinful for one actually because it is an occasion of sin, a real occasion of sin.

And if you have set yourself intentionally up into an occasion of sin that you know you're going to fail and that is itself mortal sin. But you know, it's not for all. Certainly not for all. Thank you. Yeah, that's fantastically put. I don't have anything to add. Yeah, I would agree. Yeah. Second question is a good one. And this kind of comes back to the point

I keep making, but I don't know why I'm making it. I know there's a reason, but I can't grasp it yet. And it's this idea that we drink for a physiological response, right? So that's what it's. So this comes into this question about like buzzed versus drunk. Like, what do you mean by buzzed? Do by buzzed, you mean feel the effects of alcohol? Well, my point is that's why people drink alcohol. They drink alcohol to feel the effects of alcohol. That's, that's why we drink alcohol. That's why the Ecclesiastica says it's the joy, right? Of man. It's not because of the wonderful taste that it is. That's part of it,

but that's all it was. I don't think we'd be singing the praises of alcohol I don't think we don't we don't have a great celebration where we crack open the wine and all drink together because of this Wonderful taste that's part of it But it's also the joy that it brings the only place where something like that happens is a coke commercial Yeah, literally. are really into that. Yeah. Just on adverts, you know? It's not like you have Coke parties.

That's a good point. Yeah. And there is something about, you know, as alcohol, it has like a drug-like effect, you know, on a, it captures us, it brings us in. Caffeine does the same thing, you know, because it has a real effect on our body Which which is why if I sit down for a coffee with my wife and if she's like I'm gonna have a glass of water

It says we're both drinking beverages. It's the same thing. It's it's not the same. No. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely but sharing an experience, but you know, it is funny because I'll never forget when I first started the drink with my like non I'll never forget when I first started to drink with my non-Catholic friends, a lot of them would not even make a distinction between buzzed and drunk. Like they would start drinking, they're like, this is nice, I'm starting to feel drunk, stuff like that. I was like, whoa, no, I'm feeling great. I'm just really happy to be with you, you know?

And I actually don't know why that is, if there's, whether or not it was because there wasn't a moral divide for them or what, I'm not sure. But it actually does, or if there is like a further wisdom to it, which is your point, is that it's all kind of within a scale that they see that. And the point of drinking is, okay, now we're there.

You know, like we're at this place, but maybe what I would prefer the translate to is merriment. see that and the point of drinking is okay now we're there you know like we're at this place but maybe what I would prefer to translate to is merriment. Yeah merriment is much more wholesome of a word than buzz. Yeah absolutely. Yeah I've had Catholics or Catholic friends as well confuse maybe sometimes feeling buzzed or yeah feelingriment, feeling the effects of alcohol with being drunk, you know, there is an important distinction there, you know. And I do I do prefer that as well. I like that way of putting it feeling the merriment of it.

But I think this question is kind of this. I'm not accusing this person of being legalistic, but the question can be legalistic. And I guess to your point about virtue being innate Because I think there is this desire for a law like wouldn't it be great if the church just said you may have two Beers and after that it's a sin like we want the clear Distinctions and you don't have that with alcohol Necessarily and then you brought that up earlier in your discussion about the first time your children drink as they grow older should be under the supervision and and and in the in the community of the family and there's that initial feedback that immediate feedback that you're getting kind of gauge whether you should continue or not. Absolutely yeah I think the whole our whole life is actually one of movement towards God hopefully it's a whole movement towards God but it's also kind of stumbling you know there left and right.

hopefully it's a whole movement towards God, but it's also kind of stumbling, you know, there left and right, you know, the path is narrow, but you know, there's confession kind of bounces us back onto the narrow path as we go. And but we can't, we can't give up the fact that the narrow path is ultimately run upon through virtue and not through law. You know, you don't ultimately get to the pearly gates just because you followed the letter of the law Well, and this is the whole Pharisees distinction like if Christ says if your righteousness doesn't exceed that of the Pharisees like Essentially won't be saved kind of thing. Yeah, and it's like the law followers it's like the law has to work its way down into the heart so that I live differently, think differently, look at the world differently. And Andrew Jones did a great job at your conference, new polity conference,

speaking about this, where he's like, it's one thing to give your kids laws. Like you should go to mass on Sunday, but you also ideally want to come alongside them and talk about why you should want it so that they actually want what they should want and avoid what they should avoid. It's one of the craziest things like is, as I mean, as you know, far like thinking about how I'm going to like race, you know, my kids and in the faith, because the one thing you can't actually just hand to them is virtue. You know, you can you can put put them, give them the kind of the right habits.

But ultimately, virtues are not habits. They're hobbytus, you know, according to St. Thomas, or dispositions, qualities of the soul, orientations towards the movement of love and God and to one another. But really what you can't control about it is that they have the will, the good. They actually have the will, the good. And the only person in control of their will is themselves

And so the best we can do is set them up and then give the reasons for why the good is just so good You know and but but you know scary isn't it is in a way terrify her. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, any anything else coming through? Um, no, I have some thoughts. I think that To your point, I think that it's important to make the distinction that drunkenness is the sin, not seeking some of the effects of alcohol. Right, that's exactly right, yeah. I think that there's good in that, used rightly.

So I think that that's why, I think there are people who are kind of wary of that good to a confusion of that as the evil of alcohol is the effects. So like, I like alcohol, but I don't like the fact that it's alcoholic. Kind of that idea, I think that that's just sort of, doesn't see deep enough,

and it can be kind of you know confused. Um Yeah, and then what you were talking about Jacob I've been in situations That's the same thing too, and I don't know if this is exactly the distinction of um You know drunk versus you know, I guess giddy buzzed. Um, I Don't think it's it's super helpful in that distinction, but I've been around people who seem to be seeking to lose themselves and to get to that point of like, they're no longer like in charge of themselves,

if that makes sense. And that's what they're looking for. That's the experience they're looking for is like loss of self versus trying to, you know, seek something, I guess, in themselves or bring out something good in themselves, but still, you know, totally be in control of themselves. It's escape, you know, it's ultimately escape, you know, so it's a form of trying to, you know, abstract from what's actually going on in this real world.

I mean, it sounds kind of super like commonplace actually, but just think about how many places in life where we're trying to escape from reality you know and and and once we escape from reality we've actually escaped from all the things that God has infused himself with in the sacramental universe you know we're ultimately escaping him when we do that good stuff well I think we're almost done what do you reckon yeah there's not too many comments coming through this has been a pleasure real joy thanks for joining us and yeah thanks guys for bringing some whiskey over do you this is one taste test for you we gotta do that yet okay all right

we're so what we need is to get I No, it's not. Alright, I'll leave the... I'm still very warm. I'll leave the room and stand by the window. And we'll have a discussion about what we'll do. Just a wee drop. A wee drop. Just a wee drop. Now, but we gotta sing the Scotsman song. Oh yes, we do.

Alright, let's do this. We'll save ring making for the town. Alright, you wanna head out and we'll choose some something. And this is good too because he doesn't know what we're gonna do. Alright. So don't look at us Yeah, of course, yeah, we won't choose to mid-range that wouldn't be the point Yeah, I think we should get like one of the best and like what do you think? Well, that one's really distinctive

I didn't know I didn't taste this one Just have a drink out of the bottle Just have a drink out of the bottle Maybe that I mean this is this hasn't been oh, yeah, we could do that What should we do those two like that one and that one should do that? Yeah, or should we try my favorite echo spring? No, we've had that too much today. He'll know it he went on It is really light, you know What we should do too is so we don't get mixed up or put the good one in the little glass and the crap one In the big one that sounds like a parable Jesus told yeah wine skins yeah, yeah, I

Would see we got it. We got to pair that with a great one then if we're gonna do that because that one's a This is this is uh that's mid-range 28 dollar we do with this one my favorite no let's not let's not use this one all right what about that one yeah this is gonna be so boring for the people at home they're all gone oh I mean there's just that one guy. I actually had all of these. All right, so now we know what's what. Rob, are you able to come in

and not look at what you're drinking? Yeah. All right, you can come in. Oh dear lord. Oh dear lord. Is that, is that, is that on me? It's on you, it's a little crooked there. Just so people know, he shut his eyes

and walked directly into the camera. I really did grab the, I knew I hugged out like that. He was on it. You can just leave that there, it's a little crooked there. Just so people know, he shut his eyes and walked directly into the camera. Neil, how's that look? He was honest. Just leave that there, I'll fix it once you walk. Okay. He was honest. Please don't try to fix it, oh God. In my, yeah, in my honesty and innocence,

I whacked the camera, so. Okay, my eyes are closed. His eyes are closed, here we go. Do I keep them closed the whole time? Now you have go. Drinking because the whole time now you have to drink them both at the same time and tell us which side of your throat tastes better. Yeah. I mean, this would be a perfect way to end this video if I was right

the whole way through. Yeah, right. What if you weren't right here? Then everybody's going to question the whole way through. Yeah. Right. What if you weren't right here? Then everybody's going to question the last few hours. What time is it actually? It is a quarter past 10. That's pretty good.

Again, I just want to point out that this isn't an easy decision for Rob. Even Rob. I've only tasted one so far Matt Really that's all you've done. Oh, I smell in that case. I take that back If I don't want to lose listen to it put your ear in it Yeah, that's what they say. That's what the clinking is for you know you engage all the senses the smell The sight and then the sound interesting. Yeah, that's what they say. That's what the clinking is for. You know, you engage all the senses the smell The sight and then the sound interesting. Yeah, that's nice

Now am I allowed to look now or not I mean I'm afraid you look at the colors and no here Give them to me and now you can open your eyes. Okay. Thanks. Yeah, so they they The Glen carrying glass that that's tulip one It was it was a little harsh a little bit I Don't even know actually Jacobs have to tell us I didn't see what he did I I don't know if I would just I don't know if I would know between any of these the one was the first one Was sweet if I can I'll close my eyes. I'll taste again. Which one one's better which one do you like? That's the one you wanted right? No I have no idea yeah, I don't know I would guess all right, so that's cool right, so I'm right and that's That was Echo Spring. Which one? This one versus

small batch four roses. This is four roses. I don't know which is which. Uh, yeah, that is four roses. You're right. OK. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Once you know it again, it's the it's a suggestion. So the point of this video has been to go out

and buy yourself a nice bottle of Echo Spring. You know, maybe sponsored this episode. What if they did this whole time? Well, give it, give it like your point, a good point, you know, come up with something profound on the spot right now. Well, I mean, no, there's no profound point. It's just to say that it's, taste is something to cultivate. No, it's just it's all it's all marketing.

I think it's all marketing. Like all these bourbon companies have their little story about why their bourbon is superior and unique to did he leave? Is he that depressed that he didn't get? And it's it's totally it's totally marketing. I mean, this is this beautiful four rose bottle. It's gloriously done. That sticker is delightful. It has the kind of outward sort of imprint of the roses versus bloody echo spring

on which the word later has a larger font than Echo Spring on the neck. I mean, you know, so you go. That's that's's that is amazing. Hey, to those who are watching right now, just as we wrap up, let us know what you thought about today's show, because we've been thinking about doing some more long form roundtable discussions like this. We don't plan on drinking every time. This is like, you know, this is unique to this, but we're thinking about having different

people around. Soon Bill coming on and just having kind of a three of us, four of us is chatting. So if you like this format, not necessarily the discussion about alcohol, which is the format let us know in the description below Sweet any final words before we wrap up? prost That's a fun way to say cheers. Yeah, that one you said I don't know. What do you say in the Arabic language? Satin mmm, that's cool. Yeah. I love that filter on the roof.

L'chaim. Oh, that's nice. To life, yeah. Yeah, that's great. In Australia we say, cheers. No R, just cheers. All right. Thanks, mate.

Thanks, guys. That was awesome. That was awesome.