Pints With Aquinas - Discerning the Priesthood? Watch This! w/ Edem Kabasa

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

Edem is a student at Franciscan University, discerning entering the priesthood. Sponsors: Hallow: https://hallow.com/matt Exodus90: https://exodus90.com/matt-home/ Parler: https://parler.com/mattfradd

Hey, we're live. How you doing? I'm alright, how are you? Adam, who I kept calling Adam for the first few days of the meeting. You are not the only person. Do you just let it slide? Usually. Well, it's good to have you.

Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. So, Franciscan, are you a freshman? I'm a junior. How's it going? Going well. I'm enjoying my classes. I really like Franciscan.

Why? Um, it's radically different than every other college experience I've seen. I went to a school down in Florida my freshman year right out of high school. And I visited my friends at Indiana University, Purdue University, secular colleges. And it's completely different.

The atmosphere is different. It's the opposite of those schools. At Franciscan, you have people that push you in the faith and in virtue. If you go to IU, your friends will ask you the next morning, why didn't you go to that party? What happened? Where were you? You go to Franciscan, dude Why didn't you go to that party? What happened? Where were you?

You go to Franciscan. Dude, why did you go to that party? It's worlds different. And in terms of growth as a person, I would not be studying philosophy anywhere else. I'd not be in community like I am anywhere else. I heard somebody say that at Franciscan, even though if you want to party and not participate in the church life on campus, it's a possibility. It's harder and that the peer pressure is to actually be holy.

Absolutely. Is that right? What about academics? Like, do you find that the school is great in that it kind of helps you be holy, but the professors aren't. I mean, I'm hoping you say no, that they're terrific. Obviously, I do believe that the academics at Franciscan are fantastic. The professors are caring and merciful

and care for you as a student like I've never seen before. No one is going to believe that this is not an advert for Franciscan. You can pay me Franciscan if you're watching. What I will say is I've noticed the temptation in myself because the professors are so merciful. Sometimes you can get away with not going to a class and then writing an email about why you needed a mental health day. No, that's a thing. Oh, that's a thing. That's a thing. Do you needed a mental health day or... No, that's a thing.

Oh, that's a thing, that's a thing. Do you need a doctor's certificate for a mental health day? No. What do you think my wife would say if I told her I needed a mental health day? I need to leave her and the kids at home, so. I think she'd laugh. I think she'd laugh at you.

No, but I mean, it is great, and the classes are rigorous. You can get as much out of them as you put in if you go to teachers office hours You ask questions you participate in class you can extract the height of knowledge Like Like how do I want to put this like university? Was meant to be that scholastic element that you see from the Middle Ages where there's community and there's pursuit of knowledge ordered towards a higher good, that exists at Franciscan that I haven't seen anywhere else.

When did you come here? When did you start? 2020. That's my first year at Franciscan. Wow. And then you're in the priestly discernment program? I am not in the priestly discernment program at Franciscan. I was my freshman year here, but I'm not anymore. I did not last long in the... What is that? Is that just if you're coming to the university and you're discerning the priesthood, you can live with other men who are discerning?

Is that what it is? So they all live on the same wing of one of the dorms, St. Junipero Sarah Hall. They have their own wing and they live in close community. There are two households of the PDP. Households are pretty big at Franciscan. It's not the same as a fraternity or sorority, but they are communities of people engaged in either the same social events or centered around particular charisms. They go to mass together. So the PDP is, there are two households within the PDP under a chaplain. So Father Jonathan McElhone is their chaplain right now. And they pray together. So they'll have like morning prayer after 6 30 AM mass. They do morning prayer together, usually at breakfast together.

There's evening prayer. There are commitments that they have to make. So there's requirements. You need to go to three morning prayers a week where there's a Thursday night formation night where they have a holy hour in front of the exposed Blessed Sacrament, praise hymns afterwards, there's night prayer, and there's some sort of formation talk, maybe it'll bring someone in, and it's an opportunity to grow and be in community with other men discerning the priesthood, figure out where you want to be, and receive advice from priests, talk to

people. Yeah. So I want to get to how you started discerning the priesthood and I got a lot of questions about that, but for those who aren't aware of you, how did you come into the Catholic faith or how did it become an important thing in your life? Originally I came into the Catholic faith when I was six years old. I was baptized. My parents made that decision. I was six, but I don't remember it at all. Hmm. I was not raised, however, with Catholic formation.

So by the time I got into high school, I knew almost nothing about the Catholic faith. We would go to a, you know, a non-denominational church here, or a Methodist church for Christmas, or a family friend would invite us to this Presbyterian church, we'd go there, something, something. There was no solid and uniform foundation. It was just loose Christian morality. So by the time I got into high school, I was not a firm believer. I didn't have a rock of intellectual formation to fall back on. Were you friends Christian? Some of them. Most of them were evangelicals who also went to non-denominational type churches, but not all of them at all. I'd fallen into, by sophomore year, I'd fallen into

some friend groups that were wholly not Christian, even if professed not my lifestyle. And so I believed in God. I don't think there was a point at which I would have called myself an atheist, agnostic maybe, but I don't think I would have been confident in calling myself that. More so just uncertain of the Christian revelation. So by the time I got into sophomore year, oh man, I was a problem child. Absolutely. Getting into trouble left and right. It got pretty bad to the point where I lost a lot of friends. People didn't want to associate themselves with me. And I was completely lost.

I had to begin asking myself bigger questions. And somehow I was drawn into the Catholic faith. Like I mentioned, we would bounce around between churches. I don't want to say that. And we were, we would attend different churches from time to time. And I believe one Christmas we went to the local Catholic church. My mom took us, my sister and I, and I saw someone in one of my classes and my orchestra class, he was an altar server.

And I was mystified. He was the one swinging the incense. And beyond all the preaching and the things I didn't understand or didn't really care about, I saw my friend doing something other, something otherworldly, something mystical, participating in religion. A totally different context to how you usually saw him. Absolutely. Yes. And I'd always been interested in, maybe I'll call it the virtue of religion.

I had a little phase, I wasn't, I wouldn't have called myself Buddhist or anything, but I was just interested in all these Eastern philosophies and the word mystical would come up every other sentence. Reading the tradition of these ascetic monks who would fast for long periods of time and have these divine visions and that was always fascinating to me, seeing the ritual and ceremony of religion. So the next day I saw my friend in the class I had with him, it was orchestra class, and I said, hey Drew, what was that?

And he said, you know, I was, we have this program in our diocese, it's actually spread to a couple dioceses, called the Knights of the Holy Temple. So, centered around altar serving, yes, but it's also faith formation and fraternity for young men. I said, I want to do that. And so, he asked me if I'm Catholic. I said, I think so, you know. My family goes to Mass sometimes. I was baptized Catholic. I don't know the first thing about the religion but I believe in God and that's cool. I want to do it so really I was introduced to the faith through altar serving and I

remember went to the pastor of that parish and basically he boiled it down to if I am baptized and he hears my confession, then I'm good to go for altar serving. So I had training, I had a bit of study, learning what confession was, went to my first confession. How old? 15? 15 sounds right. Maybe 16, about 15.

So I was alter serving and I fell in love with it. Everything about it trying to be precise movements precise but not robotic not militaristic. One thing we emphasized was the pivot. So if you were walking in procession, yeah quickly pivot. Yeah, it looks really quite unnatural. It does so everything about it was this Saunter this dance and I I was so interested in in the fluidity of it the motion of it And of course was it the Latin mass you're attending? No, but it was a reverent novus order by the sound of it It was yes, yes, it was It was, yes, yes. It was, it was a, it was, so, it was a reverent Novus Ordo in the fact that this priest was a wise and learned priest who cared about the liturgy.

It was not reverent Novus Ordo everyone talks about with the ad orientum, Latin chant and all this. No, but it was a, it was a well-done novus ordo that could also appease the population that was not interested in orthodoxy. Or more traditional, yeah, right, liturgy. So as I was alter serving more and more, I detached myself. I began to detach myself from everything else, and I just became enraptured by it. There was one summer where I just, I picked up the Bible and I just started reading, and it was all I did. Wake up, read read go to sleep in about

Two weeks I got through the majority of the Old Testament before I talked to my priest What a gift from the Holy Spirit to have that hunger absolutely looking back on it that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was Immense and in our monthly meetings for the altar server group, we had these adult conferers. They were mentors to us. They were guides. And we'd be looking at the schedule of masses through the month. And I remember at one of the meetings,

someone paused and said, wait, Adam, you're scheduled for three masses this Sunday And I just is that a problem. I Mean it it wasn't a problem me. I was like more mass the better, right? Why not serve three masses a weekend? I'd be there. I'd live at that church if I could Wow and They were all you have to sign up for three masses? I put my name down on the results. Okay, I see. And so just being in proximity to the priest in the sanctuary and the Eucharistic sacrifice and having a different perspective than just being in the congregation and the necessity of maintaining decorum that recognizing when you're up on the sanctuary they ought not be but people

might be looking at you mm-hmm so you can't just be sitting there scratching your ear wandering off you have to focus and even if you're not focused you have to give the representation of focus so when people see you, they know that something is happening that's important. So, I'm altar serving and I begin to pick up the prayers, right? You're near, you go to a mass every weekend, you go to multiple masses every weekend, you're serving throughout the week, maybe you do a funeral here or there. And so you begin to, to hear and memorize these prayers just from repetition. And so I'm at home and I've, I've heard the way different priests do it.

And, uh, in our vesting room, altar servers would, sometimes we'd make fun of, innocently we'd make fun of a certain priest who had a really interesting accent and the way he sang one of the Eucharistic prayers. It was funny, it was very funny. And so we'd laugh about it. But in that imitation of the priest

and mocking their accent or the way someone said it or the gestures they did, there was something deeper going on. There was, there was some movement that we would enjoy this mimicry of the priest. And I just, I fell in love. That's, that's, that's the short answer is I fell in love. And so while serving, I actually had my first communion as an altar server. I was serving before I had my first communion. I remember, I remember I was, I was not only in this time of reading the Bible, but going through apologetics because I had those evangelical friends I would talk about. They were some of the first people who taught me

unconditional love, besides my parents, of course, my family, because I would get in trouble. I would do in trouble. I would do things that ostracize me from other people, but those Christian friends would stay with me. And they would pray for me, and they'd give me advice, and when necessary, rebuke, because it is necessary sometimes. But they would ask me,

okay, it's great that you're pursuing the Lord, you're coming to Jesus, Our prayers are being heard. However. However. Why over there? Why don't you come and come to church with us? And I'd been to non-denominational churches before. I'd been to these evangelical congregations, these mega churches with Father Jim Bob, who are, are, are pastor Bob. Yeah. And most of these were the more rock concert type congregations where there's just this, this huge emotional spirit and everyone's got their hands up and there's,

there's a drum set and this plexiglass cage and and it's it's rock music 45-minute sermon rock music mm-hmm yeah just a brief aside when you came in here you asked me about this relic of st. Thomas Aquinas that we have here in the studio and I was just thinking how out of place a reliquary would seem at a place like that, you know, like what's that? Well, that's the femur bone of Pastor Steve. Why is something about the Catholic liturgy where the liturgy and death is is comfortable? Yes. You know, yes. But it's not like that with a rock concert. Yeah. No.

And before I even knew anything about religion, going to these rock concert congregations, there was nothing of substance. I didn't enjoy being there. I at best would, would derive some message of general morality. So when they would invite me to these congregations, there was, there was just nothing, nothing there, nothing there for me, nothing. And it wasn't, it, how do I want to put this? It's not like I'm going to church just so I can get something out of it. I'm not saying I didn't get anything.

It's like I didn't perceive that there was anything there to be gotten, to be gotten. But when I went to Catholic Masses, something with this ritual and ceremony, when I alter served, when you swing the incense, when there's a ritual, when there's motion, when there's separated sanctuary and congregation, when there are steps up to the altar, when there's something other, you don't know what it is, but it's other. It's this holy, holy, holy thing. It's, it's, it's attractive, it's mystical, what more do you want?

And so I began to study apologetics, and when my Protestant friends would give me reasons I shouldn't be Catholic, some of them made sense, but I'd do my research. Wait a minute, wait a minute. And I recall, it's rather embarrassing looking back at it, but I give myself a hard time. It's kind of funny.

As an altar server, we had our little group chat. And I was talking to the fellow altar servers about why I shouldn't be going to evangelical churches and becoming Protestant and all this. And they would laugh, they'd roast Protestants. And I remember one day I said, well, slow down, whoa, whoa, whoa. We worship Mary, so that's not great either.

You said that thinking that? But you thought that or were you joking? Yeah, I mean, I didn't know anything about Catholicism. I see I just read some Bible alter-served a couple times. Have you seen Pat Madrid's comment? Looking at the children of Fatima, right? So there's a statue of Mary and then you've got the three children of Fatima who are also statues And he says not only do Catholics worship statues, our statues worship statues as well. That's great.

I love that. That's a joke you can only make when you're thoroughly now convinced that, of course, you don't worship statues or Mary. So no, it's fun. I mean, I became a Catholic. I came into my faith when I was 17 years old and I'm really grateful for the interaction I had with my Protestant friends, many of whom would put me to shame with their love of Christ and their willingness to be discipled and disciples

and to read the scriptures and things like that. But it was really, it was really helpful. There's a lot of misunderstandings. It's also a lot of misunderstandings that Catholics have of Protestants sometimes and they're not interested in. Like it's a lot easier to make fun of someone's position or perceived position than to try to actually understand the new way and so that takes effort. Yes, we're not here for effort. We hit it. We were here to make fun.

That's way fun. That's way more fun to sneer at people than to try to understand them. But okay. So you look, so what did they say in response to that? What about you? Worship Mary. It was, it was just like a shocked sort of no one responded for a while and then someone someone texted me individually let's let's get some coffee sometime but that's that's all I needed yeah someone reaching out and saying let's let's talk about this well that's that's all I needed. Yeah. Someone reaching out and saying, let's let's talk about this. Well, that's funny. So when you said erroneously, but hey, we Catholics worship Mary.

So was that your way of criticizing this doctrine that you didn't fully understand yet? This perceived doctrine? I think it was both doctrinal issue and like a knee jerk response to. My fellow alter servers attacking the faith of my close friends. Oh, I see. Yeah, yes. You were trying to take him down a pig. Yes. Good. Yeah. Because really we have the gift of faith and it is a gift. It's beautiful to be in the truth, but it's a gift. And when you see someone who's lacking in truth, what

are you going to make fun of them because they haven't received the same knowledge you have? I always thought that about our atheist friends, you know, like during the new atheist craze, which has died down and I'm not sure if it exists anymore. There was a lot of sneering and a lot of mockery. And I think to myself, if I'm really as deluded as you say I am, then you're a mean person for making fun of me. Yes. Like, shouldn't you speak to me in a way that I would actually be open to hearing so that I can come into the reality with you and your friends?

It's just, uh, well, it just goes back to what I said. There's a lot of sneering. That's a word I think the Lord keeps bringing up to me in prayer lately. They try to avoid sneering. There's a, uh, well, it just goes back to what I said. There's a lot of sneering. That's a word. I think the Lord keeps bringing up to me in prayer lately. They try to avoid sneering. There's a lot of podcasts that seem to be the revolve around sneering at our ideological opponents politically or liturgically, we're just sneering at each other. And that there's two things. It, it, it makes us feel superior and it puts us above those we now perceive as inferior. And that's not a good thing to do.

Yeah, you said it was the obvious. Yeah. So what's up during your time as an alter server? Is that when you started thinking I could be a priest? I don't think the thought was as concrete as that, as clear as that. It was something attractive to me. So your parents happy that you were taking an interest in the Catholic faith It was keeping me out of trouble. Okay, so that's good enough. Perfect. Perfect My kids go to church every Sunday He's changing up his friends. Hmm. Are you trying to evangelize your parents?

Because that always goes well. To the extent that I was able, when the opportunities arose, but it was definitely more of a private affair than it maybe ought to have been. I would do all this research in my room. I'd read and go through apologetics arguments.

The amount of time I've spent on the Catholic answers of certain forums. Yeah. And that's the really interesting thing now is I can engage in a lot of conversations with professors and high intellectuals at Franciscan, and I can understand often what they're talking about when they're referencing some writing of Descartes or this philosopher over here. And I know what they're talking about when they're referencing some writing of Descartes or this philosopher over here.

And I know what they're talking about because I've read a summary of it or I've seen it referenced in apologetics arguments, but I've never actually read the thing. So I can keep up with conversations. And it's really useful for that, but I have, I have not actually read a lot of this material, but I'm familiar with it. And so a lot of that was Catholic answers was apologetic. God bless Catholic answers. Absolutely.

Do you know how Catholic answers started? Cause I used to work there. So I know Carl who founded it. And so this was, I think back in the, oh, forgive me, Carl, I might have this wrong, but I want to say late eighties. Um, you're going to look it up. A group of Protestant or a Protestant must have put flyers on all the windshields of the Catholic cars at the Catholic Church, offering objections to the Catholic Church.

Why they shouldn't be Catholic. So the next week, Carl got out his, I don't know, computer or typed up a response to all of them, had them all photocopied and went to their church and put it under all of their windshields. And he thought, well, I got to come up with a name. I don't want to say like Carl Keating. So he put Catholic answers and he bought a P.O. box. And so he did that and he kind of forgot about it and however much time went by. And then he remembered that P.O.

Box and he went. It was completely stuffed with people who had further questions. Wow. And that's how Catholic answers start. Wow. That's amazing. And then there was a story of him and, you know, Patrick Madrid, him and Patrick Madrid was sitting down one day because this internet thing was becoming more than just a fad. And so they were thinking we should get a website. And so they looked and they Catholic.com was available. They're like, oh my gosh, we should, we should, we should probably get that.

Right. So that's how they got it. 1979 is when the flyers went out. Wow. I was trying to be generous to Carl. So I was like late eighties, just in case. But there really was an apologetics awakening here in the United States. And I think it was due to the Protestant culture

Like I don't think it could have arisen in well Just like you have like awakenings of Catholic apologetics taking place whenever there's a pushback against the Catholic position like The the what are they called the counter? Reformation within the church where you have people responding to Calvinists and Lutherans and things like that But you know, you got a lot of very enthusiastic and Lutherans and things like that. But, you know, you got a lot of very enthusiastic Protestants here in the United States and a lot of back in the day, 60s, 70s and on, like you're going to hell and in the Catholic Church is the whore Babylon, like that kind of language. Jack Chick time tracks, tracks.

So it was so loud and stark in contrast that it made sense, I think, for this thing to have arisen here. But we're all very much in debt to them, I think, you know, I was in Uganda a couple of years ago, speaking to about 25 church leaders. And I was aware as I was speaking to them that I've been blessed to be a beneficiary of the wisdom of people like Keating and Madrid and Han. But these people hadn't heard of a lot of these arguments. And I was thinking, yeah, thank God. Thank God for these good men having done that. But anyway, Catholic answers. So a lot of time spent on their website. A lot of time.

That's awesome. Yeah. And a lot of my friends had objections that were like straight out of a chick track. Yeah. Just not. You like, come on. You're like, there are decent objections to Catholicism, but that one isn't one.

That is not a good one. I don't know where you got that from. Maybe you're parroting your parents, but that's just not rational. And that's happened so many times. But that level of inflammatory aggression towards Catholicism caused me to research harder because if someone tells you and you believe it or someone tells you not just like on the street you're going to hell but one of your friends

says you are on the road to peril. Well what am I gonna do? Sit here and say, no, I'm gonna look this up and I'm gonna talk to this person and this person. And then, in the midst of all this apologetics and alter-serving and being led into this dark forest that I didn't understand understand that I was just following anyway along comes a new transitional deacon to our church and The way it works nowadays is in our diocese at least You go through all your years of seminary or a deacon

They give you one year as a transitional deacon at some parish in the diocese, right? And you serve there for a year, and then you go back, do your thing, ordained as a priest, and sent somewhere else for your first year as an associate pastor. So we have a new deacon at our parish, we have our pastor who's been there for years, new deacon. This new deacon is a younger guy, he's younger at our parish, we have our pastor who's been there for years, new deacon. This new deacon is a younger guy. He's younger than our parish priest. And so I began to ask him questions because he's, he's a lot more with the youth. He's, he's involved in a lot more of the youth ministries. He's, everyone loves him. And so I asked him these questions and One time he was just like do you want to go to Starbucks sometime and let's let's and

I don't know what it was for me that that did it but when he asked me to go to Starbucks something in me about my understanding of of priests just broke it was just Hmm, you can leave this location? I didn't know that they were human. Yeah, yeah. And so I met with him at Starbucks, and well, he's an ordinary guy. He's extraordinary, but he's a guy.

And so we met. And for his year at our parish as a transitional deacon, I grilled him with questions over and over again. I'd have these objections from my Protestant friends, and I'd do my research, and I'd come up with these high, lofty questions that no other 16- old is asking. I, anyway, no other 16 year old that I was aware of, because I tried to find the answers. They were not amongst my peers. If one of my evangelical friends could explain penal substitutionary atonement, that would have been lovely. They could not. So I kept grilling him with questions, but eventually his transitional deacon year was over. In that time, as he was preparing for the priesthood, he... I know that he prayed for me and fasted for me, and not his answers to the questions,

but his prayers led me to say yes to the church. but his prayers led me to say yes to the church. So at this point he leaves, he's gone for some time. And I go back to our pastor and say, I'd like to be confirmed in the church. What do I need to do? He says, I trust you know what you're doing. You've asked enough questions. You know, you know more than every kid in the confirmation class. You know what you're doing. And so I was confirmed. And after I was confirmed, we, the diocese changes up the

priestly assignments every June, I think. And so we receive our new associate pastor. And what do you know? It's that transitional deacon. So the year I said yes to the Catholic Church is the year he was ordained as a priest, and we are great friends to this day. To this day. Yeah. Awesome. So at what point did you decide, I think I might be interested in the seminary. Like I said with the alter serving, it was not a, it wasn't a clear thought. I couldn't form the sentence.

I want to be a priest or I ought to go to seminary until years later. But looking back now, there was this slow draw through the liturgy, through meeting priests and spending time with them, recognizing them as human, as really great humans falling in love with the church's teaching on Vocation on the sacraments on the sacramental life. I wrote a letter actually to a to my vocations my diocesan vocations director back in 2019 and my Diocesan Vocations Director back in 2019. And it was, looking back on it, it's one of the worst things I've ever written.

It's just this long rambling flow of, I don't wanna say nonsense, but looking back on it, it was less of a formal letter of help me with my discernment or give me guidance on where I should go. Looking back on it and reading it with someone else who I know who is a wise and holy person much older than me. And I said, this is so cringy. I cannot believe that I said these things.

And I wrote this to in another adult mail and He said stop Maybe this isn't the best Formal letter you could have mailed into the bishops office, but she wrote a love letter Okay, it was a love letter in this letter. I wrote about the the desires of my heart and how I fell in love with the liturgy and how I fell in love with. I think that's beautiful.

I think the bishop probably would have appreciated that because it's easy to write a kind of stuffy, particular, you know, technically correct letter to say the right things, but to kind of bear your heart and say, I love Jesus Christ. And I think he's calling me to be a priest. That must be refreshing letter, I'd think. But I don't even know if the sentence, I think he's called me to be a priest, was in there. I had a story about how I had this dream, not a dream, like sleep dream, just a fantasy about going to France and, and fantasy about going to France and selling all my possessions, going to live in a cave in France, and being a hermit, and going to, I mean, living in the streets in absolute poverty, but going to a chapel and receiving our Lord every day in the Eucharist. And I talked about the call of poverty and how I fell in love with the church's teaching on chastity growing up in this wicked culture.

Looking back on it, some of those friends I had in high school and the things that we talked about, the things that we did, the things that we idolized, horrible, absolutely horrible. And to me, looking back, it is no doubt a miracle of grace that at any point I could have written a letter praising chastity when all I did was listen to this music that objectified women, when my friends would go to parties, we would go to parties and talk about girls girls and all we did was talk about girls as if they were objects.

And somewhere in the midst of that, I wrote a letter about the beauty of chastity and poverty. When I'd listen to rap music about gold chains and flexing. And I'd go with my friends and buy expensive clothing. We put together these outfits and we'd see each other in the hallways, compliment, you know, the drip, the swag, whatever. But in my heart, I wanted poverty. And I was in love with poverty. And I I wanted poverty and I was in love with poverty and I was willing to sacrifice those friends for the sake of the poverty and the chastity and the religious vocation because

I wasn't quiet about it. I had these same non-religious party friends and I'd be with them, we'd be skipping classes, we'd be doing this and that. So I think I want to be a priest. That'd be cool. And a lot of times it's just, okay, just this awkward, you know, shrugging it off. There's a story of sister Mary Crockett to be heard. Yeah, I have don't anything about it, but I'm the name I an Irish

nun who is a story of her conversion and She's got like She's at a pub with her friends like a beer in one hand a cigarette in the other says I think I want to be a nun she's at a pub with her friends, like a beer in one hand, a cigarette in the other. Says, I think I want to be a nun and not that exact scenario, but I have had so many moments like that. Yeah. I want to ask you about poverty. You shared that experience of saying, you know,

what you thought Catholics taught about Mary. So let me share an embarrassing story with you that like, I'm going to regret telling you. So I'm about 20, 20 years old, maybe 19. And I watch Brother, Son, Sister Moon, which is this like really corny movie about St. Francis. I was so moved by it that I broke my mobile phone. Yes, you broke it. Yes. And it was a new call when it was like the old brick ones

because I'm 100. And then I filled up a bag of my clothes and walked barefoot To the you know, like donation center, you know point is about a month later I'm sure I had another phone and but here's the question right because what is poverty because poverty in one sense is a lack That's what we mean and you can't love a lack because the lack isn't anything. So when you say you love poverty, what do you mean? And or am I or am I mistaken? No, no, I think I think you're completely right. I think I loved the detachment because of the freedom it gave me. I see. Yeah, that's right. You can only love things. You can love things that don't exist and so if poverty is merely that the absence of things You can't love that except for what it gives you so I see the freedom would you can see the freedom is a thing

Okay, so I loved the freedom Freedom that poverty opened up. Yeah, and How are you experiencing that in your life as a young man? Or do you mean in the future you hope to attain it? There were there were on and off times, sometimes. When it would be some. Social affairs, some road trips, some some something that we'd all been hyping up for a while. And there was a lot riding on it.

Sometimes I just say, I don't want to go. I don't want to go. I'll just, I will stay home and read the Bible this weekend. There is a really good narrative in there and I really like this story. I don't think I can make it tonight, guys. And that's such a small thing. I mean how many times any introverts know, you know, saying no to a social function is nothing. Yeah. But for me, I would have, I would have put myself on the line, my life on the line to be accepted socially. So it wasn't due to just merely being unsocial. I wanted to stay home no it was.

I don't know what it is but there's something better there's something other something more there's more that's that's probably the best way to put it. Father bob badad was the founder of the companions of the cross in Canada he has has a line that I'll never forget. He said, since discernment has become fashionable, no one's made a decision since. Right? So how has that been true or not true in your life and in the lives of those around you? Because I think that is a critique. Even this morning I had a men's group at eight a.m. with a few fellows here.

And one of the guys I was with, Brian Kissinger, was saying, you know, in his experience, when a young woman like knows she's called to become a nun to the convent, like she'll quit, she'll go right away, leave, like quit the quit school midway. And he said that hasn't been his experience with a lot of men, a lot of. And maybe this isn't true. Maybe this is unfair, which is partly why I'm asking you. But he said for a lot of minutes like, yeah, why I'm thinking about the priesthood. So, you know, after I finished school and maybe work for a couple of years and maybe date, then I'll become a priest. That that might be unfair, but what's your experience being in discernment and not wanting to hide behind the word discernment?

That is a major problem. I'm glad you hide behind the word discernment. That is a major problem I'm glad you pointed that out because a discernment is a is a Recognition of a call, but it involves decision-making Very well put you you Receive a call but you have to say yes to it and not just this greater yes of I'm open to being led but along the way there are hard forks in the road and you have to choose one or the other and that's something I I am only now learning through making mistakes so for one if you have a reasonable,

I don't want to say certainty, but if you have a reasonable suspicion that you're being called to a religious vocation, why would you date someone? And I will get a lot of flak for that. I've heard a lot of arguments to the contrary. But if you are reasonably confident that you're being led to a religious vocation, entering a relationship with someone,

it's not, you're not the only party involved. It's not, I'm going to try this and discern in my heart if this is working and if I'm being led this way. You're, maybe in the secular terms, you're leading someone on to break their heart. If you're not, there's a difference between an honest mistake where you date someone because you feel like you're being led to a relationship with that person, which may end in marriage, you could see yourself spending your life with this person and that ends up not being the case and maybe that's that's tough it hurts it hurts both people it's sad we live in a broken world it it happens but for you to say I'm not sure about this I don't know if, I don't know, should I get a spiritual director? Should I this, that or the other?

No, I'll take it upon myself to discern and date over here and pray like this and do this. And that's why someone said that the hardest one of the evangelical councils, poverty, chastity, and obedience is not poverty or chastity. It is obedience. Because so many people, so many men do whatever they want, whatever they want, and even up to, up to... Mental health days. I'm sorry. Well, yes. I'm sure there are legitimate reasons for mental health days, but yeah, it's not in my case. But there's an excuse to always remove yourself from an obligation you may have agreed to. Yes. Yes. So when it comes to getting yourself a spiritual director, when it comes to sending a letter to your vocations director.

Start do something, say yes. If you're experiencing a call, send a letter to someone, write an email, text someone. Because you're not the you're not the one who places desires upon your heart. The analogy I've used, which I'm not sure if it's entirely correct, but. If you're put into a, an MRI machine or cats, well it's the one that does the brain. Yeah. Um, f m r i, f m r i. Sure. And someone flashes images in front of your eyes, a puppy, green grass, and then the sun, and then the Latin mass and a guitar and then and they're scanning your brain and

They see it light up and this and that way You're not the one who's you're not in control of how you respond to things right to a certain extent You can choose how you react, but certain things will excite you you're not the one who created your desires So if something is attractive to you if there's a desire on your heart that might authentically be from the Lord, quite honestly, who are you to say no? Who are you to not explore that? Okay. So you have something that might be a call to religious life Send an email to someone your diocesan vocations director is a great place to start because I Think there's this myth that wherever you first contact they're gonna want to sucker you in

No, because there's nothing worse. I think any Catholic can see what bad priests can do. So it's like, don't flatter yourself. People aren't falling over themselves to get you into the seminary. Exactly. So if you write your Diocese and Vocations director, they have resources. They can say, okay, well, let me put you in contact with this religious order. I think you, you'd really like this priest that I've met. Let's get you a spiritual director who can help you figure out what's going on

in your heart. That's one of the biggest parts of discernment is learning to read your own heart, looking at your past and your life story. Um, I used to, I was just saying the Capuchins for a while. I just love St. Francis, right? Brother, son, sister, moon, breaking my phone, baby. And so I was certainly Capuchins and I spoke to one Capuchin over a phone one day.

He said something that I'd love your opinion on. I think it's excellent. He said, don't be afraid of your shallow desires for a particular vocation. He says, just like in marriage, the thing that attracts you to this woman isn't necessarily something deep and profound. It might just be like, she's got a beautiful face and I like her laugh. Like these are not reasons, right? To get married, but it's the beginning. And he he said so if what's attracting you to the Franciscans is the habit looks cool. He's like don't be afraid of that. That's okay. You don't have to pretend

That your desire for this particular religious order or to be a priest is Mystical and deep when it can just begin very superficially and when he said that something in me it can just begin very superficially. And when he said that, something in me relaxed and I realized like, okay, it's okay to be attracted to these things in the beginning on a, at a superficial level. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And I think one of the problems that I see underlying that is like false

humility to say that, Oh no, no no no I'm I recognize that desire for Aesthetics as merely something worldly, but I subjugate the flesh and I can see the heart of it like shut up And I think it's cool. Just say that yeah, you know yeah Yeah, it's exactly like that. It's exactly like dating and you're first drawn to the outward appearance our appearance Yeah, it's exactly like that. It's exactly like dating and you're first drawn to the. Outward appearance, outward appearance. But you have to take it deeper. If you're first drawn to the outward appearance.

You don't just stare at someone, you don't just please don't. Please don't. You don't just go to the port. You can proud pray about this beautiful person for the next 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. You go and next 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. You go and initiate a conversation. Yeah. And maybe that goes somewhere. Maybe you invite them to grab coffee, to get lunch,

to go on a date. The same thing with discernment. Something interests you, you don't say, and then go and talk to your friends and say, oh, well, there's this cool thing and maybe I'm experiencing this call, but I'll wait until the Lord makes it more clear. He's made it clear just from that, that little shallow desire. That's, that's all you need to start there.

How did you discern whether or not you wanted to pursue the path of a religious vocation as opposed to a diocesan priestly location. Did that take some time? For me, I didn't. I come from a very rural diocese in South Australia. I think geographically speaking, it's the third largest in the world. It's just huge. And so my bishops done a lot of driving, a lot of flying, and there's a lot of, and we haven't had, I don't think a home.

We haven't had a vocation in like, I was like 20 years, maybe more, you know, maybe 30. Wow. So we have these fellows who are coming in from Malaysia and Africa, and that's great, but there's nothing coming in from our own diocese. And so there was just a lot of older kind of men living on their own. I'm like, I don't want to be a bachelor. Like, I want to live. If I'm going to do this, I want to live in community with other brothers who can call me to. But I'm sure if you desire to be a diocesan priest, it's not like you're like, no, I don't want that. I want to be alone. It's like, no, of course we all want brothers. But so how was

your how was your discernment with that? No, of course we all want brothers, but so how was your, how was your discernment with that been? I began discerning with religious orders. I thought for a while I was going to be a Dominican. I just went with the Institute of Christ, the King, sovereign priest. I was shopping around. I was attracted to a lot of things in these various communities because they have attractive qualities. all of them do.

Yeah. But recognizing attractive qualities is different than being attracted to something and figuring out if that's where your heart is being led. I think... Yeah, fair enough. Anyone can recognize. A beautiful woman. Yeah. That doesn't mean that you are called to go on.

That's right. Just because there's 10 beautiful women in a room, it doesn't mean you're called to every one of them. Exactly. Exactly. So. Let me step back. I've always not always. I've been interested for some time, even through high school, in the extremes of human discipline.

I'm not a disciplined guy. I won't say that. I've been interested in it. Been interested in things like the special forces in the military, Navy Seals looking at their training, excuse me, especially their Hell Week, looking at Buddhist monks and their extreme fasting. One of the first Christian saints that I had a devotion to was Saint Simon the stylite who stood atop a pillar for 40 years. They would gradually increase the height of the

pillar. How was he sleeping? He would, he would, I believe he'd crouched like get down on his hands and knees. On a pillar? Yes. How did he not fall off? It's a great question. The grace of God God the grace of God obviously But for 30 years or something and they would build the pillars higher and higher And someone would have a pulley and pull him up a basket of bread yeah once a week yeah That was cool to me yeah, of course yeah, it's very cool be weird We should do that in Steubenville what the hell is Frank doing up on that ladder? That was cool to me. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's very cool. Be weird. We should do that in Steubenville.

What the hell is Frank doing up on that ladder? Well, he feels cool to it. He's being a saint. I wish he'd stop. It's very annoying seeing him. I remind you, the reason I'm joking is without the grace of God, that's that clearly is just this look at me. I'm not saying he was like that. He's a saint.

But for me, it would totally be a look at me. It reminded me of a conversation that Thomas Merton had with his spiritual director who said to Thomas, you want to be a hermit in the middle of New York City with a big neon sign and an arrow pointing saying here is a monk. Wow. Someone said that to Thomas. I think it was his spiritual father. Wow. And if I don't know, but if it came from Merton,

who whatever, that's certainly an act of humility to acknowledge that. Like to acknowledge, like, yeah, I want to be a monk. I want everyone to see me being a monk on my own. Anyway. I think that's also one of those shallow draws to be a monk. I want everyone to see me being a monk on my own. Anyway. I think that's also one of those shallow draws too though that can be. It's like when you're a kid and you you do good things because you want to be recognized for it and then as you grow up you realize you want to do it for the sake of the good thing. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, great point. But yeah that kind of rigorous, that is what attracts young men, isn't it? Yes. Even if like, like I went into a rectory once in this. This priest told me a joke.

He said he went to a Franciscan friary. And the priest said, wow, if this is poverty, show me chastity, because it wasn't at all, you know, but it's easy to idolize these things. And maybe when we get there, we're not as thrilled. Like I spoke to a religious order who was a new religious order in Australia. And I was talking about how excited I was about poverty, which is to, you know, but I didn't I wasn't excited at all about poverty. I was excited about the idea of it.

But he's like, well, you won't be as excited when your car doesn't work and you've got no money to get where you need to go. It's like, OK, now I see how I wouldn't be excited excited when your car doesn't work and you've got no money to get where you need to go. It's like, okay, now I, I see how I wouldn't be excited about that. But, um, but yeah, but no, as a young man, like that's why the friars of the renewal appealed to me. I'm like, these men sleep on the floor. They don't have cars. So maybe they have a communal car in New York. I don't know, but you know, they beg for their food. Yeah. Yeah.

I said check that one truck that was donated to them I I decided them for one other guys amazing love. Have you gone stay with them? I'm not You afraid if you did you'd want to stay forever. I'm afraid of that now. I'm married It is it is an attractive life I think I think that's part of the male fantasy this this yearning to just run away and do something extreme. Yes we should want that cast off all this nonsense. I mean yes this table man what do I need a table for? Forget it. Flip the table and go run into the woods. Absolutely and I think if

a man doesn't have that desire that's not good. In fact I've got the Brothers Karamazov here within the first few pages of the book as the author is talking about Alyosha he talked about his Idealistic sense. I don't know if you remember that but he said something like a young man ought to have that like even if it's naive Like good a man without that. Where's he gonna go? But yeah, and then do you think maybe what we do is we just sort of satiate that desire with like video games potentially demonizing all video games.

But I'm saying that if you have this desire for something radical, you could do something radical or you could be like play Age of Empires 2, which is awesome, by the way, and like dominate another tribe or something. Satiate, numb, ignore. I think those are all true, but I also think the intermediary stages are often what's lost. So if you have a young man as a desire and sees the Navy SEALs, that's amazing. I want to be that. Yeah.

Okay, what's in between you, you fat lazy slob, and becoming a Navy SEAL? Well, I have to get out of bed. I have to work out. Maybe the first day because you're on that high of this is like a fantastic idea. But then when it gets grueling when it gets difficult when it has to be sheer will that attraction is gone and just give up so true i love that the intermediary that's where we get lost we as a fat slob as you put it so well see someone not a flat fat slob want be that thing. This is what we're all going to do as December approaches and all of the gyms put out their 50% off signs, appealing to the desire we

have to be better. But knowing that once we sign the paperwork, we'll decide we don't want to be better necessarily because that's for like vain people or something. And then we'll get lost in the intermediary stages. That's so true, dude. This is why it's so important to have a rule of prayer. I think it's like, as opposed to, I just go with the spirit. It's like, that's probably just being lazy and flaky. Yes. So you can go with the spirit, but you also need set times when you pray. Yes. When you wake up before you go to bed. And if you can't commit to that, then don't even pretend that one day you

could be a saint or a priest. Yes. And I think you just hit on the schedule of prayer that's been in the church's patrimony since the beginning, the divine office, the Liturgy of the Hours. Originally, I struggled really greatly with the Liturgy of the Hours. I had my spiritual director who would recommend maybe just morning and night prayer every day. Not the evening prayer. The evening prayer is kind of long.

Just the night prayer. Two bookends to the day. You start your day, here's my intent. You end the day, you reflect, and get ready for the next day. And I struggled with it quite a bit. Sometimes it's just forgetting, and sometimes it's just this boring reading of these Psalms.

Dude. But I realized, I started to pray. When I visited the Canons Regular of the new Jerusalem in Charlestown, West Virginia, and they do everything in the old form. Okay. Once I started praying, I got this app on my phone called I P A to and I started praying the divine office in the old form. Sometimes I just read the Latin because it was interesting.

I don't, I don't speak Latin. I don't know Latin, but sometimes I'd read the Latin because it was interesting. I don't speak Latin, I don't know Latin. But sometimes I'd read the English translation. And even that English translation is just better. And I don't know what version of the Bible they use for the Liturgy of the Hours I have in the new form. But recognizing the difference in translations, these little things, just switching up the language I pray or even the translation of the Bible Changes my my prayer. Okay, and so now for anyone discerning religious vocation

Absolutely the scheduled prayer of the the divine office election area this extension of the mass these are I Love it. Yes, I love it because what you're doing is you're calling someone into the intermediary office election area this extension of the mass these are. I love it yes I love it because what you're doing is you're calling someone into the intermediary to see if they'll be satisfied to sweat it out there because it'd be like someone. Saying look I want to be like really in shape and the person says okay well do out? No, but I really want to just look terrific. And I want to have a lot of energy in the person. OK, well, why don't we start just coming to the gym like just twice a week? You know, so you're calling him into that intermediary. If they don't show up for that, or if they can't be consistent in that, then just

just be honest, just say, I don't want to be in shape. Just say that. Right. That's OK. That's a choice you can make. But I love that say, I don't want to be in shape. Just say that. That's okay. That's a choice you can make. But I love that. It's like, if you want to be a priest, it's like, all right, then here's what I invite you to do. Pray some of these hours. The reason I was just looking on my phone then is, um, I've been praying the first hour each morning for a while of the Eastern prayers. And, uh, I wrote to father Jason about a weekend and I'm like, I don't like this. I wrote to Father Jason about a weekend. And I'm like, I don't like this.

I said, it feels constrictive. I said, you know how Protestants say that all of these like rote prayers kind of get in the way and that's how I feel. And Father Jason is so good at texting me things that sound like they're from some saint in the second century. He's such a good man.

He wrote back and said that these specific prayers are the bit in the mouth that turns a roaming donkey into a Mustang fit for battle. That's what he said to me. They're good. That's cool. And he said part of being a disciple is being disciplined. Yes. So. And then I spoke to Father, my spiritual father, Father Boniface, who said, I don't know much about the Latin Mass, unfortunately, but in the beginning, those those Psalms that are prayed as the priest approaches the altar, I guess he's a he's if I'm remembering correctly, he said some some prayers are more like it's less about what do I get from this and more about going to war and proclaiming the word of God.

So it's a different thing when you sit down with your Bible over a cup of coffee and say, how's the Lord speaking to me? That's a beautiful thing. But then there's these hours. It's like you're praying the prayers of the church and it's not so much about you. Right. It's more about the first moments of the day, giving worship to God, like making sure that he's the first priority and doing battle with these psalms. And those two bits of advice have really helped me to stay consistent.

Yes. Yeah. But it's hard, man. The feelings dry up. That's another thing to recognize is when the feelings dry up, any religious vocation, any vocation any religious Yeah Any vocation like ask a married man who's been married for more than five minutes if the sex is enough

Or ask any priest who's been a priest for more than five minutes if the shiny vestments are enough It's like no like at some point You're gonna have to love yes. Yeah with the will yeah,'s, it's cruciform. That's the nature of vocation. Anyone can be attracted to the incense and the smells and bells and cool vestments and chanting the Canon, but ask someone, okay, I'll give you an example. We know the statistics of the church right now, the clergy, and then it only got worse after COVID.

The statistics? What do you mean? How many priests there are, how many are in formation, how many are in formation for the priesthood, how many are over retirement age or will be shortly. So like I said, that usually you go through your seminary, you have your years as a transitional deacon, you're the associate pastor of a small parish for a while, under the tutelage of an older pastor you learn how being a parish priest works firsthand, then you move on to a larger parish, maybe you're made the pastor of a small parish and then eventually a pastor

of a larger parish in your diocese. But things are so bad right now in, I think it's the diocese of Pittsburgh, they're telling their seminarians, when you are ordained, you won't come out and be the associate pastor of a small parish. You will be the pastor of two or three parishes The Average priest in Spain has six parishes under his care. Wow, I believe the record is 22 For one priest 22 parishes

So, you know, it's all cool Latin Mass three-piece suit smoke cigars Everyone wants that No one wants the being the pastor of three parishes where someone's gonna tell you that this is the way we've done it and want to manage your liturgy and When you can't celebrate that Latin Mass when your parish community reviles you for following the general instruction of the Roman Missal. No one wants to be that priest. But that's the nature of that calling is you're called to be a living sacrifice and to offer

your life for your sheep. To set your face like Flint. Cause I can't imagine how well you do if you didn't have a backbone as a priest trying to keep everybody happy. You can't do that. No. So that's, that's another thing is before the spiritual formation and religious calling, there's just human formation that needs to happen.

And that's the case with a lot of young men. I think that's why Jordan Peterson is so popular. Absolutely. Because he might not be calling people to spiritual formation, but he's certainly calling him to human formation. He's saying the most basic things, and we're all like, that's a great idea.

I should clean my room. And he's right. He's right. He's right. But men aren't hearing that from anywhere else. Yeah, but when they hear it, they love it. They want to hear it. Yeah.

So diocesan priesthood, you're more attracted to that right now. Let me ask you a devil's advocate question and I'm going to ask it not because I think the things I'm about to say necessarily, but because this is what I'm sure some people say. Why the hell would you join such a corrupt, depraved church with so many scandals and so many weak, wimpy bishops? Haven't you heard these stories of priests who are going quote unquote underground because their bishop silences them.

If they're mildly Orthodox, they're either sent out into the boonies or sent for therapy. Like, why, why would you subject yourself to that? Why not? I don't know. Why not join a religious order where maybe you have some cover. If you can trust the religious order or just do something else. Why would any man join the military? You have to go through this horrible bootcamp. There are videos of you being in a gas chamber and they come out all mucus

running on their face. They're coughing. It's, it's barbaric. Why would anyone put themselves through that hell? Because they want to fight for their country because they want to fight for their country, because they want to die for their country. Why would I put myself through the possibility of all these things which are real and true? Because at the end of it, there's something greater than my desire, and that's to fight for my church. The same priest that I talked to you about. I was talking to him about the military and all this, and he said, look, if you're called to go to the military, go join the military. If you're called to be a priest, be a priest. Because I was

in my head saying, I don't have the human formation yet. I've lived a sinful lifestyle. I need to go to the army or join the Marines and get some discipline and some human formation and be formed enough for formation in seminary. That's a lie. If God wants you to be somewhere, He will make you ready whenever you need to be ready. So we said, if you're called to the military, go to the military. You're called to be a priest, go be a priest. And I want that extreme of the Navy SEALs, of special forces, of the army.

I want to be a fighter. I want this. I want that. I want the asceticism and self-discipline of a Buddhist monk. I want the intellectual formation. I want all these things. Sure. But at the heart of it, I'm going to do what I'm called to do when I'm called to do it, where I'm called to do it. And I'm ready to fight and die for my

country, which is the church. Yeah. Now it just occurred to me. That's a good answer. It occurred to me as I was asking you that the same thing could be said to anybody who desires to be married Why would you do that? Haven't you heard about the divorce rights? Your children will break your heart like How much money you're gonna save for retirement like there's so many obstacles, but it's like yeah, but I'm in love Yes, I want to give myself to this person and I want her entirely So I'm gonna do it. Yeah. Yeah Entirely. So I'm going to do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Follow the Lord. Awesome. I want to take a quick break. And then when we get back, I want to ask people who are in the live chat right now to send your questions. Do me a favor and at pints with Aquinas so we get your questions ahead of time and we'll go from there. Sweet. Hey you there looking at me. You want the number one Catholic app on the app stores is Hello H a l l o w.

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It has sleep stories. One thing you might wanna do, especially if you're a parent, they have sleep stories for kids. And so getting to play scripture to kids is super cool. Also all of my lo-fi stuff is now over there I'm just not interested Matt because I can't listen to your voice on that. Well, you when you could is that was that the setup? Yeah, okay, you can I don't know why you'd want to but if you want to terrify yourself

I mean if you're speaking of sibling horror, this is far more creepy Do you want to listen to me read the Bible to you like this and you know, I wouldn't want that to me read the Bible to you like this and you know I wouldn't want that Scott Han also does yeah so forget about me Scott Hans there Jason Everett Jackie Francois so go go check them out hello.com slash Matt hello h a l l o w dot com slash Matt it's fantastic and next I want to say thank you to parlor you guys have heard about Parla. It is social media the way it was meant to be. I'm over on Parla, so if you click the link in the description below, you can go see my profile

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They say that everyone's voices matter. So all on parla are equal, regardless of race, age, religion, politics or dietary choices. I don't know if that includes pineapple pizza, but yeah, it's not just like a conservative platform. It's just a it's a platform for people who value free speech. So go check them out by clicking the link in the description below and I'll see you over there. ["Priest's Lamentation"] All right, we're back. So I asked a priest if he had any questions. Well, I didn't ask a priest. I asked my local supporters and a priest sent this.

I guess it's for you. My son, if you come forward to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for a temptation. Set your heart right and be steadfast and do not be hasty in time of calamity. Cleave to him and do not depart that you may be honored at the end of your life. There's much more, but that's a I love that so much. Except whatever is brought upon you and in changes that humble you, be patient for gold is tested in the fire and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation. Trust in him and he will help you make your way straight and hope in him

That's such a great great versus great Hey before we get to more questions you were talking about the into into Mary Intermediary stages and I was thinking like one thing that I think it's been a blessing for the church has been Exodus 90 have you heard of that? Yes. Have you ever done it? It's one of those things that I recommend to people with caution because it's so brutal It was a priest in my diocese who started the program and why he's also the one that started our Knights of the Holy Temple Huh? What a guy what a priest great so yeah, we we did it we went through it together as

gentlemen in high school in our Group and then we had did you make it the 90 days? No, no, no I will I will be honest with you not even close. I did a solid Exodus 29 Yes, and then things started to fall off Well, that's that's exactly exactly it I I've been up and down with The the attraction to discipline. A lot of it is because I have a lot of lack of it. Yeah, now I get it.

I'm by the grace of God building it up slowly, but I've been wrestling with weakness and sin and mortal sin for years. And I hear a lot of these conversion stories that are great by the grace of God. I live this sinful lifestyle, this, that and the other, and this God. It's, I live this sinful lifestyle, this, that, and the other, and this, this, this, this, this, and then the last sentence is, and then God saved me from that. But that's not the story. The story,

that, it's completely backwards. You have a life, but your life started in Christ. Yeah. And so now, oh yeah, this daily struggle. Yeah, but this is where it's just beginning and So that intermediary phase I'm there right now where I'm not in seminary But I'm not in my pre-christian life, and I'm not actively dating so every day I I Have to struggle I have to face temptation I Want to tell people to go check out Exodus 90. Yes, Exodus 90 Exodus 90 dot com slash Matt. And check it out.

Are you tired of over drinking? There's a question. Be tired of being overly distracted. You could spend 90 days. Just removing these obstacles from your life. If you're a man who wants to take your spiritual life to the next level, I would highly recommend checking it out. It says tens of thousands of men have made Exodus.

They're ready to live diff because they're ready to live different. Check it out. Exodus night because everyone they're doing a the Exodus 90 kind of starts at a specific time every year or a few times every year. So the next time is in January. So now is the time to decide whether or not you want to do it. And don't just do it the last day when you see an announcement on Facebook that it starts tomorrow.

Like, get ready now. Find a small group of men to go through this with you, because the things people say who are better than me and who actually do stick to it. Like I was blessed by the time I did it. And then I did make it to 90 days. I was just like being dragged across the finish line by my brothers, to be quite honest with you. Yes. Sometimes you need that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's great. Definitely cold showers every day.

The cold showers were the worst for me. I am a scorching hot shower. Yeah. What was it for me? Honestly, I'm embarrassed to say, I think it scorching hot shower. Yeah. What was it for me? Honestly, I'm embarrassed to say I think it was the lack of no alcohol. Yeah, I just love like and it wasn't not from an addictive point of view, but just like, OK, we're out with friends and like, I'll have a water. That was hard. But yeah, that's great. That freedom. I feel it. But yeah, that's great that freedom. I feel but yeah

Yeah, okay Mike says if celibacy is especially a challenge does that mean I'm called to married life rather than the priesthood So my knee-jerk response is no But what's been percolating in my mind for a bit is that verse from st. Paul? Says those who I'm gonna butcher this this, let's do it. The, the, those who, if you are like me, it's better to be like me and sell a bit for those who cannot give up their, their lusts or something. It's better that you become married than to burn with lust or something. Yeah, something like that.

But I don't know to what extent that, or I guess the frequency of that being relevant, because I think sure a lot of guys struggle with lust, but to write yourself off. Yeah. And on the other end, imagine saying to your wife, I wanted to be a priest, but I can't subdue my passions, so I'll settle for you instead. Yeah. Yeah. Your wife is not meant to be an outlet. Here's what Paul says, to the unmarried and widows, I say that it is best for them to remain as I am. But if they do not, by which he means celibate and single, but if they do not have self control, let them get married for it is better to marry than to burn with sexual desire. We still have to reconcile what that means though, because I'm with you. Like a woman is not your sexual outlet and your husband is not your sexual

outlet. And we can sin venially through lusting and marriage, uh, provided it's a, an appropriate sexual act. We can still sin by treating the other as an object, but I don't know how to reconcile that with the, if they lack self control, get married. Yeah, I don't know. I want to try and think that through a bit more because anyway, maybe now's not the time to do it, but no, fair enough. I like what you said that it's not like, well, I was going to be a priest,

but I have no self control. So yeah. And I also think, um, like sexual depravity and sexual temptation has always existed. I mean, you have St. Paul saying things like, please stop it with the orgies. You know, that, that was a thing. I think it's the second of the Corinthians and like someone is sleeping with their mother-in-law and that's super gross. I don't know the translation I was reading, but super gross and like, um, so it's always existed and yet it hasn't existed in the same ubiquitous sense that it exists today. And so yeah, of course you're going to be broken in some regard or have wounds from sins, but to think that that would disqualify you, I think would mean it would disqualify almost everybody.

Yeah. Here's a, here's an honest question for you. Like, uh, how do you reconcile? I mean, this, this is a question I guess could be asked of me. Like how, who do you think you are to marry this lovely woman when you're such a piece of crap, but like, how do you reconcile your own weaknesses and, and, and inadequacies with this high calling of the priesthood? Because you don't want to fall into the sin of perfectionism or like dull your

personality because you think it's not appropriate. Like you want to be you and the fullest version of you, to put it in a more kind of modern way. But you're also aware of how presumably like unworthy you are of this calling. How does a man like reconcile his own unworthiness with the thing he's being called to? I think recognition of humility coming not in the way we expected, that we are not the ones to judge our unworthiness. We can recognize our sinfulness and, well, maybe I'm just using the word wrong, but if Christ is calling you to something, he thinks you can do it.

And it's, it's actually prideful for you to say, no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not good enough. I'm thinking of Peter in the boat. Get away from me, Lord. I'm a sinful man. Exactly. Yeah. And that's true of any religious vocation. It's also spousal.

So it's, it's not necessarily Always you and I'm I'm worthy like celebration of the Eucharist when those words are said Yes, it's you your voice your Being saying them, but it's in persona Christi and it's Christ saying them through you and That applies to more than just that sacramental sense. Yeah. So it doesn't some senses, maybe maybe the misjudgment of worthiness, but in some sense, it doesn't matter.

Yeah, I love that. It doesn't matter if you're worth it. Even on a human level, like if I'm dating my wife and I want to marry her and she thinks that she's made too many mistakes and she's like, no, I can't. I just I'm not. I'd be like, shut up. Like, I don't care. Like, I want you. I just I'm not. I'd be like, shut up. Like, I don't care. Like, I want you. I want you.

Like, this is less about you and more about me. I want you. And I guess that's kind of what happens in the priesthood, huh? Christ is like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm very aware of how wretched you are. Way more aware of it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

I want you. That's it. That's good. Did you say you had a question? No. Well, there's one earlier I wanted to bring up, which I don't know if you, it sounds like you might know him. Noah Doyle says, greeting from Zion's bill. We miss you eat them and are so proud. And later he said also eat him. We called it and then a smiley face. We want, if that means anything to you, we called it. Thady face. He won't if that means anything you we called it

Thaddeus says tell him that his friends are all inspired and listening fervently to him. Yeah Having a watch party right now. Oh, really? That's amazing. Yes Yeah, what people are very influential in your road to closeness with Christ said Thaddeus priests priests priests priests Get to know good. Holy priests get to know them outside of just shaking hands after mass, hang out with priests. If they invite you for a bonfire at the rectory, go hang out with them, see their humanity. I've seen a priest play the banjo. That's cool.

I've seen a priest smoke meats on a grill. That's cool. I've seen a priest smoke meats on a grill. That's cool. I'm thinking these are, yes, these are priests and they're doing something else, but also they're men and they're cool. And I want to be like that. Yeah. Absurd Scandal says, what's the relation between detachment from stuff you enjoy in poverty and also being free to enjoy the things you like, which is a good thing in scripture. As it comes to you, so in some of the spiritual guides on mortification, so the monks, some of the monks who engage in heavy fasting, if someone comes to their gates and brings them a feast, they don't say, no, no, no, I'm fasting. They will engage in it. Yes. Treat everything as if the Lord brings it to you. Yeah. So if you're your friends in

depending on on guidance of your spiritual director you were gonna fast for a meal and there's some event or they invite you to eat with them or whatever It's it's awkward for you to sit there with no plate and look at all your friends eating very cringy. Yeah Please don't do that. Yeah. So situational awareness. Yeah. Okay. Why isn't Adam, says Kate, in the priestly discernment program on campus?

How does he suggest discerning outside of that? I knew this one would come. Oh, really? Yeah. So first, I'll start by saying the PDP on campus is great. There are a lot of great guys in the program. Father Jonathan is a wonderful man Holy great guys that are disciplined and really care and love the Lord and that's that's full stop

However in my time in the Priestly Disclosure Program One of the first things we learned Okay, my first Thursday for Thursday night was formation night we had a holy hour in front of our Lord exposed in the Eucharist, and we were singing. And I mean, I'm a silent adoration guy. I like that. High contemplative stuff, but obviously music in front of our Lord, fine. Great. Praise the Lord. And we're doing this. And then there's this guitar, this piano comes on, and I kind of roll my eyes. Like I'm not, I'm not huge on piano and guitar praise music, you know, and that's not like an instrumental puritanism. I'll listen to Claire de Lune. It's a great piano piece. I love piano and guitar music all the time, but here we are in front of our Lord and everyone there is singing and I'm

reading the lyrics. We get to this line of the hymn that says, when heaven meets earth, like a wet sloppy kiss. Something in me just, mmm, I don't, I don't love that. Okay. I don't love that. And then later on that evening there was a, our formation was on, it was on like, what do you call it? Praise events when people are in these charismatic gift. So we were taught how to catch someone who is falling over, having been prayed over. Well, they call it resting in the spirit.

I see. falling over, having prayed over. Well, they call it resting in the spirit. I see. And my, my conversion or reversion, whatever you want to call it, was a lot of in my room doing research, talking to a priest. It's a different spiritual, maybe.

It's completely different. So then when I go and I see people, you know, with this very outward expressive, it was just not comfortable for me. And that's not to say, I don't want to touch the theology of that, I'm not a theologian. I can't comment on that. But you weren't at home in that.

I was not at home in that. Fair enough. And praise God, my vocations director right now is he completely understands that. And he's cool with that, he agrees with me. And so my discernment is outside of this priestly discernment program. I mean, the fact that there are different religious orders and ways of being a priest is

admitting in a way that there are different spiritualities. I mean, some people are called to be monks alone in their cells. Some people are called to be parish priests. Some people are called to embrace poverty more than others. And so it makes sense. All right. The beastless zero nine K, probably not his real name, says I am currently in my RCA class and have a long time before I can truly get hands on

with discerning the consecrated life any tips for self-discipline and patience it's gonna be rough I'm just gonna say it's 90 no no I mean not just that the discipline to to focus on where you are so even in in my prop like as an altar server when I wasn't even confirmed, I would be thinking about the highest heights of sanctity in this saint story, in this living life over here, in this, but you are, what is present to you is the reality God has given you. Dwelling in the past is not good, that reality is gone, and dwelling about possible futures or ruminating about possible futures is just a cause for anxiety.

Demonic influence can work with creating realities that don't exist and putting them in your mind and being stressed about something that's not present yet. What is present is being in the moment God has given you. So be present there. If you're an RCIA, be the best RCIA candidate you can be. Don't start thinking about what I'm going to after I'm confirmed, and then how I'm gonna live my life. Right now, be the best that you can right now. When you go to Mass, and hunger and thirst for the Eucharist, great, recognize that.

Don't start fantasizing about once I can receive, and is how I'm going to Do this and that and that be where you are and be the best that you can where you are because God has given you That reality to contend with and that is plenty. That's enough. Yeah, that's exactly. I mean, it's a paraphrase of our Lord, right? Like there are many was he say troubles each day has its own trouble like today's enough. Yeah There are many, was he say troubles each day has its own trouble. Today's enough. Yeah. Andrew says people might understand the diocesan priesthood and priests in parishes. How you explain to others if you are called to be a hermit or even a hermit priest. OK, so he's saying, I think if you say I'm going to be a diocesan priest, people are OK, cool. Generally, maybe.

But if you like, I want to be a hermit. Like what? So how do you explain that to people? I suppose I'll start by saying you don't need to explain everything to everyone. Yeah. Everyone has a right to understand why you do what you do. But if, if genuinely you, you do need an explanation, maybe maybe related to marriage. Everyone, everyone understands marriage. Um, in order to say yes to your wife,

you have to say no to every other female on earth to give a more complete yes to Christ in a religious vocation. You have to say no to the world in a more complete sense. And that's about it. Every every choice for something is an occasion of another, isn't it? It's an obvious point, but it's one that I keep coming back to and I keep getting fresh insight out of like to choose to do this podcast this morning is to choose to not do a multitude of other things that I could have been doing, right?

is to choose to not do a multitude of other things that I could have been doing right to sit back and say, well, therefore, if I won't choose anything, it's like, let's just, that's the man when there is just say, well, then you get nothing. So Magdala says, can you please share whether you have some saints that are most important in your journey or who you feel inspired by. So Saint Augustine has been in the background for a while. I haven't had a huge devotion to him, but he's always kind of popped up here and there. And now I'm in class and reading his confessions and make, make sense.

We have a lot in common, but my patron saint is my confirmation saying is st. Benedict Joseph labor LA BRE French Saint That that's oh st. Terez so It's a joke. I make the reason I can't discern with the Dominicans anymore is because I read st Terez's autobiography in one weekend, and then I wrote my letter to the Dominican vocations director in And then I wrote my letter to the Dominican vocations director. In Theresian English, I'll call it just this flowery, verbose reading it is actually the cringiest thing I've ever written. This is the second cringiest thing you've ever written. Second chronologically, but by far, by far at the top.

All right. And so I actually can't show my face to a Dominican That's amazing. It's like embarrassing yourself on a first date. I'm like well not going back to that woman It's not the one I'm kidding. That's not why I didn't end up continuing my discernment with them But have you just heard of the Carmelites out in Wisconsin, Wyoming Wyoming? Yeah, they look so cool. They look very cool I've heard mixed things. Oh, I don't know if the things I've heard are true. I've heard that what I've heard that's bad isn't necessarily true.

I don't know anyway, but it would be cool just to wear one thing for the rest of your life when I have one habit. This is my outfit now. It's like all those movies where they portray humans living on another planet. We're all wearing this one particular space suit. It's like someone just says, this

is what we're doing now. That just must be a lot easier. Easy. But it's cool to have like the cassock and then like, yeah, flare up a bit with the black ghetto and the cave, the fairy olo

and the Saturno bring that back. Oh, bring after you know, if I often joke that like when they elect me pope after Francis, I'm going to look at someone right. If they elect me, I'm like, where is the papal tiara run? Also, I need the keys to the part to my. What did it? What did Pope Francis give up people, the papal apartments, something like that is, yeah, I'm going to need that too. So my friends, a funny, funny story. It's what I'm not going to put. This is, this is a great example of the contrast in my conversion. So I have some, a running joke that I've had with, with a few of

my friends from back home is about the, are you familiar with a do rag? Yeah. So we had this idea of, oh, of course. Not really. Okay. But I don't know why you said, of course. And I want to dig into that. I mean, I can tell that quality of hair texture. Exactly. Yeah. You're going to need a do rag to cover it. We had a joke about the, the papal do rag, just a do rag just adorned with Golden-crusted Bedazzled jeweled durag that would be cool. Yeah, sure take your word for it that over a papal tiara any really Now I'm gonna meet that tiara. What one piece of advice would you give to somebody? discerning the priesthood right now who hasn't yet joined the seminary or

maybe hasn't even reached out, but. Get people to pray for you. My goodness. If you can't pray for yourself or if you're struggling with sin and you're weak, get people to pray for you. I am Catholic because of the prayers of others. I am where I am because of the prayers of others. It's, it's a community religion and you sitting in your room studying canon law or reading the general instruction of the Roman missile as cool as it is, as cool as it is not going to do it. And if you are where I was and sometimes still am and you're crippled,

whether it's by my mental health or by sin or whatever, and you just, you just can't, some days you just can't get people to pray for you. And taking mental health there. Take a mental health. Uh, Adam, uh, Adam, could you explain the culture of the diocese of Steubenville? I hear people constantly joining religious orders, but the diocese itself only has five seminarians. I don't know. You don't have to feel like you're an expert on every topic. I don't, I don't know much about the diocese of Steubenville at all, but honestly, I'm just here hanging out. Absurd Scandal says, would it, would it true? Would it be true

to say holy orders is blessing and pleasure? Just as Mary viewed her rearing Christ as a favor for her. I have no idea what's happening in that comment. I'd like to apologize if I misunderstood it, but we're gonna just abandon ship right there. All right, so what's the next step for you? The next step for me is my Diocesan Vocations Director, Father Aaron, great guy. He, when he is determined that I am ready, okay, when we determine that the call from the Lord is authentic, he will give me the application for seminary. And I'm sure the Bishop is involved in there somewhere.

I don't know those official details. Are you in your undergrad right now? Yes. And would you finish your undergrad or would you just? I don't know. I, I. Would they want you to? I think that's probably a more practical solution.

I am ready to jump in open arms to the seminary, but I'm also practicing the virtue of patience. So. Do you know other men in the seminary right now? Yeah, yeah I know some fantastic seminarians. I'm really hopeful for our next generation because it is it is men who are willingly taking on huge risk taking on yeah burden to sacrifice for others. like hearing you're going to jump in to a burning building and saying let's do it Bring it bring it

We've got a really strong generation of frees coming up Good let's say a Hail Mary, man And we'll offer it for you and for everyone right now discerning the priesthood And maybe I'll pray the first half and you can pray the second name of the father son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Jesus.

Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. St. John Vianney, pray for us. Amen. Amen. Father, son, Holy Spirit. Amen. Adam, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story.

And hi to the watch party in... Francis Hall. Francis Hall. What's up with you? Cool. Thanks.