Pints With Aquinas - Do THIS to Hear God's Will For Your Life | Ft. Sr. Mary Rachel Capets

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

It’s Last Call! Matt Fradd is taking voicemails and sitting down with Sr. Mary Rachel Capets to discuss how to hear God’s voice and know what you’re meant to do with your life.  Pints: Last Call Ep. 6 - - - 📚 Resource Mentioned: And You Are Christ's: The Charism of Virginity and the Celibate Life: https://a.co/d/0bJ6djy5 - - - Today's Sponsors: Hallow: Deepen your personal relationship with God today. Visit https://hallow.com/MattFradd to get 3 months free. Good Ranchers: Get $25 off your first order and FREE meat for life when you use code PINTS at https://GoodRanchers.com Shopify: Sign up for your $1-per-month trial and start selling today at https://Shopify.com/pints - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠ 📲 Download the free Daily Wire app today on iPhone, Android, Roku, Apple TV, Samsung, and more. - - - 📕 Get my newest book, Jesus Our Refuge, here: https://a.co/d/bDU0xLb 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mattfradd.locals.com/support⁠⁠⁠⁠ - - - 💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas⁠⁠⁠ 🎵 TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas⁠⁠⁠ 📚 PWA Merch – ⁠⁠⁠https://dwplus.shop/MattFraddMerch⁠⁠ 👕 Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com - - - Privacy Policy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/privacy⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Most plans range between $499 to $11.99 a month your first year. Terms apply on covered repairs. Good day, everybody, and welcome to the show. A lot of you have written in and have asked us to discuss the topic of discernment, discerning your vocation. And so that's what we want to do. I want to share with you how I ended up discerning marriage. We then want to take some of your phone calls, which have been sourced by my producer, Maria. I haven't heard them yet. And then finally, we're going to be sitting down with a beautiful Dominican nun, Sister Mary Rachel, to get into the practicalities of discerning one's vocation. So, please stick around to that. I share with you recently that I came to faith in Jesus Christ when I was 17 years old. And when I came home from Rome, all I wanted to do was read books about Jesus Christ, talk about Jesus Christ. I remember sneaking away from my home economics class once just so I could sit before

the Blessed Sacrament and read the Gospel of Luke. And God bless her, Mrs. Hascott, if you're watching, I apologize for my immaturity. She came into the chapel and she said, Matthew, what are you doing? We've got class. And I think I looked at her and said something like, well, you're my home economics teacher. He's God, I'm just going to hang out here and keep praying. Maybe not the most mature thing to do, but that's where I was at. And all I could imagine doing was proclaiming Christ to people. That's all I wanted to do. I wasn't interested in a normal job. I didn't want to become a chef. I didn't want to become a police officer, as noble and as wonderful

as those jobs were, all I wanted to do was do something about Jesus Christ. And it seemed to me that the most intense thing I could do was to become a priest. And so I began discerning the priesthood. I remember writing to the Capuchin Friars in Melbourne and having a lot of conversations with a wonderful priest who was the vocations director at the time, Father Robert. And I was really excited about that. I remember once I got this this coffee table book of Well, You Thay in Canada. There were all these photos of religious sisters and priests. And I saw this priest, I assumed he was a priest kneeling down. And I thought, I don't know what he is, but I want to be him. And over time, I discovered that he was a CFR, a friar of the renewal, who were founded in New York, but who have homes in Ireland and

other places, an amazing religious community. And so I started talking with them. I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. But in the meantime, I decided that I would serve as a missionary in Canada with a group called Net Ministries. And then I was selected to be part of the team that went to Ireland. The reason I bring that up is that it was during my missionary year in Ireland that I met my now wife Cameron. She was this beautiful woman. We became really close. host friends, and it became pretty obvious to us towards the end of the trip that there were some mutual romantic feelings. But keep in mind, I had just went and visited the CFRs, the Friars of the Renewal, in London. And so I'm discerning religious life, but I now am attracted

to this woman, and I don't know what to do. And so I went back to Australia, and I was living in Brisbane, still praying about it, still going on to the Friars of the Renewal website all the time and writing to the friars and speaking to people about the priesthood, but then also having conversations with this beautiful girl, Cameron, and wondering whether or not I was being called to marriage. Well, I ended up having a really enlightening conversation with a good friend of mine named David Doblstein. Hi, David, if you're watching, you really help me during this time in my life. And I was telling him that I didn't know what to do. I had no idea. I was afraid that I would make the wrong decision and wasn't sure what I should do. He gave me

three pieces of advice and each just hit me like lightning. It was it was really what I needed to hear. The first piece of advice he said to me was, God isn't going to speak to you in a way that you can't understand. This is something I'm going to be speaking to with sister, Mary, Rachel, soon. It's not like God, this is how I think many of us treat God and the discernment of his will. We treat God like he's saying, all right, I've got something in this box and you have to guess what it is and there's absolutely no way that you can figure it out. Go. This isn't how God works. God will communicate to us in a way that we'll understand. He's not going to speak to you like you are Catherine of Siena or St. John Paul II, he's going to speak to you and me in a way that's intimate

because he knows our hearts. So we can just take a deep breath and trust that the Lord is at work in our life, even in spite of our immaturities and whatever else is going on. The second thing, he said to me is, he said, Matt, if you were laying in bed and you heard a loud noise, outside, you would in a sense be obligated to get up and investigate what was that? And he said to me, it sounds like the Lord is making a noise with Cameron, this woman. And he says, I think therefore you're sort of obligated in a sense to investigate it. That was helpful. The third and final thing that he said is, and maybe this was the most helpful, you cannot walk two paths at once or you will split yourself apart. And that's really what I was doing. One day, I'm dreaming about what it might

be like to be a Franciscan friar. Another day, I'm dreaming about what it would be like to be married. And I can't keep doing that forever. I can't for the next 10, 20, 30 years, because I've got to make a decision at some point. And that's really what discernment's all about. So, after this conversation, I felt very inspired. I remember going into my room and praying and journaling and making the decision. Today I will stop discerning the priesthood and today I will start discerning marriage with this with this beautiful woman Cameron. And here's another, here's another reason I think I was I was looking at the priesthood. I think I was really afraid of being married.

You know, I think that's a good question to ask ourselves. Am I turning towards this vocation with a sort of joy, with a sort of sense of spaciousness within my own heart? Or am I turning away from something? Like, I'm afraid of that thing. And if I'm honest, I think I know I was afraid. I was so afraid that I would get married and I would then be exposed. that I wasn't going to be a good provider, a good lover, a good father, all those things that I

thought were being requested of me. I was so afraid I was going to fail miserably at all of them. And I had the sense, you know, well, look, if I become a priest, I can somehow be like over there in my little, you know, religious habit. And she'll never know. Like she will never get to see my deep poverty. She'll just think of me as some like holy guy she used to date. And once I realized that, I realized that's not a good reason. That's not a good reason to become a priest, namely out of fear. So Cameron, my good wife, came and visited me in Australia. And then a couple of months later, I went and visited her.

Now, people will sometimes say, what's your opinion on long-distance relationships? And my opinion is that they can work if they're going somewhere. if there's some kind of trajectory. It doesn't work if we just both sit down and nobody's moving. When she visited me that second time, we both realized we had a decision to make. Yeah, I mean, the expense of the flights was enough to make us realize one of us had to make a decision.

During that trip, I think we both realized there was something here, and it was really beautiful. And so since I was the fella, I thought it was my responsibility to come, after her, to go after her. So I quit my job, sold my car, got a job in Texas, sent books. Like, I love books. So I had boxes of books that I shipped. Didn't fly a shift to America because I couldn't afford to fly them over. And then I moved there with not a lot going on for me. I was working kind of in music ministry and youth ministry. And we didn't really know where it was

going to go, but we just trusted the Lord. I moved there in November. And then I remember in December, I hadn't yet proposed. And I just said, Lord, I want three signs. And these signs were really dramatic. They're so dramatic that I won't share them with you because I'm embarrassed. If we ever meet in person, you're welcome to ask me. Maybe I'll tell you then, but they were pretty intense. And I got none of them, none of the signs. I think the reason I asked for those signs is somebody else told me their story. I asked for these three signs. and the Lord gave them to me and I knew. Well, I asked for these three signs and got nothing. And I was praying after having received Holy Eucharist at Mass.

And it was as if the Lord said to me, what do you want to do? And I'm saying to him, well, what do you want me to do? I don't know what this sounds like, but it was as if the Lord said to me, listen, you're old enough and ugly enough to make this decision on your own. I'm not saying that's the Lord's verbatim, but that's how I heard him. And it was as if the Lord said to me, do you want to marry her? And I went, yes. And he went, well, do it. And this freedom just opened up in me. I got really excited that I could marry this woman. Now, there was still some fear there, and I wanted to test this out on a dear friend of mine. So the next day, I called a good friend of mine, Mark Bennett. I'm eternally grateful to him for this. I think I woke him up because of the

time difference. I said, Mark, good a, I said, mate, you know, I want to propose to Cameron, but I'm, you know, I'm nervous. I'm wanting to make sure this is the right. Well, he cut me off right then and there. Here's what he said. He said, are you friggin joking? She's better than you are anyway, you idiot. You've got to propose to her before she figures that out. That's what he said. That's what I needed to hear, I guess, because I hung up and then I called my wife and I said, hey, come and visit me. And it was then that I proposed to her.

And I'm very grateful that I did. So that's my story of discernment. And now I want to take your questions. I met. My name is Andrew, and I'm a college student wondering about how to discern my vocation. I've recently been working on living in the present moment and enjoying God's world around me. Yet this seems counterintuitive to discerning a vocation, a process that I believe is very focused on the future.

Do you have any advice or thoughts on how to balance between effective discernment and appreciating the present moment? Thanks. First of all, what a beautiful question. I just love how a tune of this fella is. Yeah. Okay, I would say that the key to discerning your future vocation is to stay rooted in the present moment because the present moment is the only place where

We are. It's the only place where we can meet God and where we can receive grace. So I understand what you're saying. I think there's a difference, though, between discerning and being preoccupied with five years down the road. Because when you think about it, this call to a vocation is a journey. It is a destination in the sense that if you are called to the priesthood and you are one day made a priest, this is a journey, this is a destination. But there's a lot that happens in between now and then, and all of that is happening right now. So as you read books, as you talk with priests, as you speak to trusted advisors and your spiritual father, that's different to being preoccupied in the future. That is you being attentive now to what the Lord is calling you to. there's an excellent piece of advice from Jacques Philippe in his book searching for and maintaining peace. And he makes the case that there is never a good reason for us to lose our peace.

So not to become anxious, but to realize that we can trust that God is guiding us, that God is guiding you, and that that guidance is happening now. That's what I'd say to that. Okay, we have a second question here. Hello, my name is Yulamusa. I have been currently discerning whether or not to enter into the priesthood for a few months now, and I'm a little older than the usual seminarium in my 30s, and I don't know really where to get started. Like I'm not sure who to speak to or who I should contact or how to get started with the whole process.

So any help would be our assistance or any resources would be very helpful. Thank you. Yeah, beautiful question. I would say two things. Number one, contact your diocese and ask to speak to the vocations director, and he might be able to give you some direction. The second is to check out a St. John the 23rd Seminary, because this is a seminary actually for candidates who are aged 30 years and older.

And so for you and for those who might be watching in a similar situation, go check out psjs.e. That's psjs.edu. Even if that's not the seminary for you, given that this is a place for older vocations, I'm sure they might be out of point you in the right direction. We'll take our next question. Hey, man. Long time listener, first time caller. I always appreciate your insight, especially the advice you give to young men. I remember you gave some marriage advice where you said,

get married before you're ready and have more children than you can afford. Okay, I got a comment on that because I did once say that. I think the advice I gave was get married before you're ready, have more children than you can afford and live in a bubble. And I do mean that, but it has to be qualified. I'm clearly being hyperbolic. obviously we need to pray and discern with the help of good friends and mentors and people further along the journey than us, am I being called to marriage? And, you know, am I basically ready for

marriage? We definitely have to ask that. The thing I'm pushing back against is this idea that I have to be ready for marriage because I'm 42 years old. I got married when I was 24. So coming up next year, we'll be married 20 years. Come on. Come on, come on. But, But, man, I was not ready at all. I was actually, when I got married, I was an illegal alien. So really glad that ice wasn't cracking down the way it is. Now, I was an illegal alien who was unemployed. So if you're worried, if you're out there and you're discerning marriage and you're like,

but I'm not sure if I'm ready, I definitely wasn't ready in that sense. But there was a lot of good things going for us as well. But I just want to kind of press against that because I don't know if we'd be married yet, you see, if we had to wait until we were, quote, unquote, ready. So it's okay to be somewhat immature. Obviously, you have to consent to marriage and you have to be in a good place to be married. But my point is just that I'm so happy that I've gotten to grow old, older maybe, with my good wife. And I'm glad we didn't just keep waiting and waiting.

and waiting until we were quote unquote ready to tie the knot. And then when I say have more children than you can afford, I kind of mean that there's something beautiful about having kids and just trusting that the Lord will provide, not saying be irresponsible. And then thirdly, live in a bubble. I don't like this language that people use pejoratively. They'll say you shouldn't live in a bubble. Well, I don't know. Because I think bubbles are just what human beings have lived in forever until five minutes ago, if by bubble you mean to live with like-minded people who love the same things and hate the same things and are worshipping the same God. I think you absolutely should do that. So that's what I meant by that. Continuing. One question that I had, and I believe this applies

to all vocations, in a world where there's a lot of voices and a lot of influences, how can people determine when decisions are fear-based or when they're based? in logic. I've heard a lot of people, maybe they're called to the religious life, and they may make a decision not to pursue that because of X, or Y, or Z, but in reality, it might be a fear-based decision. And then the same with the vocation to marriage. And I might want to pursue a particular person or continue a relationship with somebody, but they might make a fear-based decision. So my question would simply just be, what are some practical ways that people can identify what might be a fear-based decision around vocation, but what might be a prompting of the

Holy Spirit, or what might be something that is maybe logical that God might be calling them to. Anyways, thank you so much, excited for the show. No. Yeah, looking forward to your answer. Okay. Well, I would see how helpful it is. I don't know if it will be. So the question you're asking has to do with, how do I know whether the decision I'm making is a logical

or a fear-based one. I guess the first thing to point out is that sometimes it's logical to be afraid, you know, the two aren't mutually exclusive. And so sometimes there's really good reasons to be afraid. And if you weren't afraid, then that might be illogical. Yeah. But I see the point, and I think it's something we touch upon, and I've already touched upon, and that we do touch upon in the interview I've done with Sister Mary Rachel. And that's that, am I turning toward something? Or am I turning away from something? Am I afraid of something? And that's why I'm choosing one option.

Is it fear based in that sense or not? Because I would say fear makes you choose in order to avoid something. You know, humiliation, uncertainty, loss, whereas true discernment chooses something because it's good, true, and aligns with how God is moving your heart in prayer. One thing that really helped me, and I think it would be, it's just good advice to anybody who's discerning a big move is to talk to someone that you trust. It's really great to have someone objective who's not in the middle of all of this. You know, sometimes when you're discerning marriage or priesthood, it can be, it's a big decision and that can cause emotional turbulence, but to have somebody in your life who can just sort of mirror back to you what you're saying, someone that you can be really honest with. Yeah. that would be a good idea.

And then, of course, just to spend time in prayer. Lord, what is it you're calling me to? And a clarifying question, and this is something I bring up with sister Mary Rachel, is, I think, to ask yourself, what do you want? Yeah, I don't know how to say this in a way that doesn't sound bad, but I'll say it and hope that you'll give me the benefit of the doubt and understand where I'm coming from. sometimes we can bog down our discernment of these things with a sort of false spiritual baggage,

whereas it can be a clarifying question to just say, what do you want? Just be honest, what is it you want? It's sort of like what I felt the Lord asked me in that time of prayer, and I just went, oh, I want to marry her. And, you know, through discernment and through conversations with other people further along than me, realizing, you should do that. That sounds like a really beautiful thing. I think we sometimes have this, and this doesn't pertain specifically to this question, but just generally, we have this idea that freedom means keeping all of my options open. If all of my options are always open,

then that's freedom. But that's not true, of course. You know, because if I never choose something, then I actually get none of it. And so there is a sense in which at some point, I just have to make a decision based on what seems most reasonable, where I believe the Lord is calling me, based on the advice other people are offering me as well. So God bless you and good luck. And now finally, I think we have one more question. Let's see. Hey, Matt. My name is Ryan and I have a question for you about praying for marriage.

So my fiance and I will be getting married this summer, which is super excited for. But one of the things we've been talking and praying about recently is in what ways we still lack in regards to being a good husband and wife, being a good father and mother. We've had a lot of people tell us that marriage will bring out the best in the most broken parts of us, which totally makes sense. So my question is, how do we prayerfully discern the parts of our hearts that still lack love or still act out of woundedness that are going to come? I just have to pause and say to you, the fact that you can talk like this means you'll be. just fine. You are clearly attentive to your own heart. It sounds like your fiancé, if you're engaged, or about to be. I've missed that. But you'll be fine. But let's keep with. I'll enforce display in our marriage so that we can bring those things to Christ and begin doing that

now. I know that we'll never be perfect. That's not what this question is about. I just think that Jesus would love if we began surrendering those things now and not wait until several weeks or months or years into our marriage to start surrendering them to them. So yeah, thanks for your advice and for all you do to share the faith. I'll be praying for you and for your family. Oh, man, what a beautiful question. I hear what you're saying. Right. I get it. You're not saying, how do I become perfect before I get married? I understand that's not the question. But, I mean, it sounds like you're getting married relatively soon. So I don't know, man. I think it might be more helpful. to decide how am I going, how will our marriage live in a supportive Christian community?

Maybe focusing on that question might serve you better than trying to iron out some of the wrinkles in your personality, if that makes sense. It can be a difficult thing to be married. And so living with people who are supportive, living next to family, living next to friends. Now, that's not always the case. If I'm honest, I'm actually really glad that after my wife and I got married, we immediately moved to the most remote part of Ireland imaginable where we were away from our family and our friends. And that was difficult because we did lack support, but it did enable us to realize something that I think all newlyweds have to realize. Namely, once you get married, it's team you against the world. And anyone who tries to come in the middle of your marriage, be it friends or family, you know, it has to be rebuked, you know, prudently, maybe with, definitely with charity, but rebuked because, you know, once I got married to my wife, she is now the most important person in my life. It's not my mom, it's not my dad, it's not my brother or sister, as much as I love them, and it's not my best friends. It's this woman whom the Lord has given to me.

So I think that's really important. And, but my point is, like, you're going to need support. So where will you live? Will you live close to a church that's spiritually nourishing, close to religious life? I'm not just talking about those in the religious state, but those who are living for Jesus Christ. I think it'd be really a good idea for you to live beneath your means, you know, so that there's no additional stresses, if at all possible, that even now as you discern and move towards, marriage, that you do have a regular prayer life, that you are being open and honest with your spiritual director, if you have one. You know, really important that you and your fiancé or girlfriend are feeding your mind with truth, goodness and beauty. It is funny, you know, today we put a big emphasis on what goes into our mouths, don't we? Like, are you carnivore or paleo? Are you eating seed oils or sugars and that's great. It's really good that our bodies be healthy. But how much attention do we give to the mind? You know, am I just scrolling TikTok? Forget scrolling TikTok.

Am I even on it? Just just get off it. Maybe get off social media, delete all the apps from your phone, live a life that is in contradiction to the rest of the world, and instead read books that are truly edifying about the sort of man that you're going to have to be. Look, if old Matt Frad could sit down with young Matt Frad right now, I'm sure young Matt Frad would ask me a lot of questions about like, what needs to be done? Like, what must I do? And I didn't sense that anxiety and your question at all. You seem great. I'm just saying I would have been like that. What advice would I give to young Matt Frad who got engaged at the age of like 23? 22, 23. I just would have said, just smile and just relax. Everything is going to be fine. Just take a

deep breath. Trust in the good Lord and have fun with your lovely fiance and then your wife. It's actually a real blast to just get to hang out. And I remember one of the most beautiful things about getting married was not having to say goodbye to her at the end of the night. To have to have her go home just to get to wake up together and do life together. It's a real beautiful adventure. And I know the Lord not only has beautiful things in store for you, but he expects great things of you. So God bless you. Thank you everybody for sending in your questions. And now here is a very edifying discussion that I had with Sister Mary Rachel. This episode is sponsored by the greatest Catholic, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay. The greatest, just prayer and meditation app in the history of prayer and meditation

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That's pints for $25 off on top of the $500 annual savings when you subscribe. Goodranchers.com American meat delivered. All right, Sister Mary, Rachel. Lovely to have you again. I want to talk about discernment of vocations. This seems to be something that causes a lot of consternation in people, right? They don't want to screw up. They don't want to get the wrong religious order or the wrong woman, and there's this fear.

I remember having this fear myself, almost like God's will was this tightrope that I had to walk. And if I was to misstep, well, too bad. Yeah. Did you experience that while discerning? Or if you didn't, do you know what I'm? talking about? I do. I do. Yeah, you're right. It is a kind of a scary time. Discerment of one's vocation can be scary for those reasons, afraid to make a mistake. I think what's important for people to realize is that they're not in it alone. You know, the discernment of one's vocation,

hopefully there's people to support them, but also if it ends up being discernment to a religious vocation. There's that religious community that is trying to assist the young woman in her discernment. And I do think that sometimes we think about discernment as, or even the voice of the Lord is really, really distant and not able to figure it out, you know. But I think there's some ways to navigate that. And firstly, I think it's to think about how, um, You know, Jesus, he's the same yesterday, today, and forever. So kind of a concrete manner to discern is to look at the ways that he speaks and that he calls people throughout sacred scripture because he's the same Jesus.

So he's going to call in similar ways. Sometimes it's through friends, right? Andrew's St. Peter, I met the Messiah. Come along. Or Matthew, he's in the, Matthew's in the middle of tax collecting. and Jesus walks by and says, follow me and he follows. Or there's the experiences when we come to understand, maybe meet Jesus in a deeper way through reconciliation or conversion or healing.

Like you think of Mary Magdalene, delivered from seven devils and starts to follow Jesus. So those are concrete ways that we could see Jesus at work. And that's the same way he works. He works through the authority of the church, right? Who is this man who speaks with authority? So sometimes that's helpful in discernment of, okay, I'm going to pay attention. The other thing that's so kind of exciting, actually, about discernment is that we're trying, each of us, because discernment's not just a one-off, right?

Like you will know that marriage and I know in my vocation. We have a big point of discernment about our vocation, but we discern plenty of things in our lives. So it's good to kind of come to understand how does the Lord speak to me? What does he use to speak to me? We begin to see there could be a pattern sometimes. Right. I think sometimes we have this misconception that God is,

Here's how it works. Here's how the sermon it works. God has something he's calling you to, and there's no way for you to figure it out, and you have to just guess it. Almost like if somebody spoke to you in a language you didn't understand and that you'd be culpable for not understanding them. I think somebody once said this to me. I know they did. That God will speak to you. You're not Padre Pio. He's not going to speak to you like Padre Pio. He knows who you are, and he'll communicate himself to you in a way that you can understand. How do we, so we have men and women listening and some are discerning marriage, some are discerning religious life. What's your, what's the advice, if you could give one piece of advice to people on discerning their vocation?

What would you say? It's got to be a regular life of prayer. It's got to be, and that takes a lot of the pressure off, coming to know Jesus, deeply, knowing that he desires what's best for us, that he's got a plan for us. That plan is also for our ultimate happiness. That's important to realize that he wants us to be happy. So the vocation he's given us, he's placed that already in us.

Isn't that refreshing to know? You know, he's placed, he's calling us to something. He's not calling me to something that would make me miserable. Exactly. And sometimes people get a misunderstanding of that. there's plenty of people that I've had to talk with. And they say, I want to become a sister because, well, I think it'd be the hardest thing that I possibly could do with my entire life.

And it'll be the biggest sacrifice. And because of that, I want to be a sister. I mean, imagine applying that to the married state. Well, God's calling me to marriage. So I have to find the ugliest, most annoying, insufferable man or woman because that way I can show my love. It's like, no, who are you attracted to? What are you attracted to?

Okay. Yes. Yes. What's the desire? You know, I think, too, about that when we're young people, we all have dreams, hopefully. When we're young, there's these little sparks of things that the Lord places. The Holy Spirit puts into our heart or mind, a little desire we have. And those are significant.

They're meaningful. And when we can kind of reflectively live our life and say, what? What did I desire? What was that in the third grade or seventh grade or twelfth grade? This desire that I had to do whatever and to pay attention to it. Because sometimes in our life there's a lot that can get on top of that and crowd it in. And, you know, you hear those whole careers that people are living, going one way for a long time and realize, I'm not even happy. really what I've always wanted to do is this other thing. So paying attention to what are those desires, that takes prayer.

What do you want? That's a good question. That's a nice question. When people are kind of paralyzed and discernment, I think, what do you want to do? Yeah, but also. This sounds wrong, but forget what God wants. I'm asking you, what do you want? Sometimes that can be really clarifying.

Yes. And if you think about it too, that's the question in the sacramental life of the church. And when we receive the habit or when the church asks, what do you desire? We're asked that when we receive the habit. What do you desire? And we say, God's mercy in yours and to be received into the holy habit of St. Dominic. But that's an important question. Yeah.

What do you desire? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What advice do you give to those who have analysis paralysis? They could join this religious order or that religious order or maybe they shouldn't and they just feel so stuck and afraid. Yes, yes, yes.

Take the right next step. That's all that's needed in discernment. That's all that's needed. We do get paralyzed in life when we try to take on too much or when we try to decide now for something five years from now. That's not what God's asking. God's just asking, what is the next right step? Is the next step that you look at the way?

website is the next, if it's marriage, is the next step, whatever it is, go on a date. So it's just the next right step and to trust that the Lord, who loves you, will show you what the next one is and then the next one, and then the next one. And then the next one, then pretty soon it's happening. You're doing it. You're following his will. Yeah, how important is it just to kind of, as you say, I like that. The next step is really good. Like I heard somebody say that it's very difficult to turn the wheels of a parked car. So you've got to be moving so that you can then. Yeah.

So, I mean, is it important for those who are discerning to reach out? Yes. Or just sort of go and visit a seminary or something. It is important to visit. The reason why is we see marriage all over the place. So that's not easy to discern, but easier to discern. religious life is not something we see. It's all the time.

And we don't have an opportunity to really understand the life of a religious or the life of a priest. You have to see it and you have to experience it and be able to ask the questions so that you're discerning in real time. You're discerning in reality, you know, you're able to ask the questions that you've wondered about. These are the stereotypes you hear. And then I think also when you finally go to visit, the important question is, where do I feel at home? You're going to feel when it's a cult religious life, you're not just called vaguely to be a religious. There's no vague religious walking around. You are a religious within a particular charism, a particular religious community.

Or the charism is a gift given by the Holy Spirit, right, for the religious. the upbuilding of the church, and that is the founding charism of the founders and founders of the orders. And you have to, when you visit, you have to kind of look at that, right, and discern it, and where do you feel at home? Sometimes you can go, you can really admire a religious community and love them and love their work, and you go there and you're like, love it. But this isn't where I feel at home. Did you do that? I did. Yes. Yes. I've always loved the Carmelites. So I had a chance to visit the Carmelites in Alhambra. We're still, communities are great friends, a friend who entered there when I entered Nashville. And I loved their,

I love their community. I love the Carmelites. And it was a beautiful discernment of one weekend. I went. I was like, I love it, beautiful, not it. And Nashville was like, what? I just, one of the times was when I was at university and the sister showed up. And I was in, and I was in the chapel in prayer. When they left, I wanted to go with them. And I was like, what was that? Like, why do I want to spend more time with them? So that's a way that the Lord is speaking.

What are some perceived impediments or to the religious life that shouldn't actually be impediments? So one thing I'm thinking is you could imagine somebody saying, yes, I've discerned a call to the priesthood or religious life, but I actually desire to get married and have children. because I presume if a woman came to you and went, I actually have no desire for marriage with children, I don't know if that would be a plus.

That's right. Yes, a good, any woman who would make a good religious would also make a beautiful wife and mother. So it's this similar qualities that are needed, the ability to self-sacrifice, to love. So, yes, you're right. We need to have an understanding of the beauty and the gift of marriage

in order then to say that is so beautiful and now Lord I give that to you to embrace this life of chastity for the kingdom there has to be a love and appreciation

yeah we often think of when we discern vocations sometimes we can fall under the trap perhaps of thinking of it as a stopping point almost like that's the end of the spiritual life and discern and there it is done So now it's taken care of, and then, of course, that's just the beginning. You know, starting something new can be terrifying.

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Yes. The importance of that in religious life and marriage continually go deeper with the Lord. Yeah. I think it is one of those funny tensions, isn't it? There's the regularity of life. And at the same time, the profound call daily to go deeper to meet him. the Lord. And I think it's kind of like the call to, maybe a way to say it is remain in the spirit, remain in the grace of the Holy Spirit, discerning what is he up to today. You know,

usually responsible people have their plan for the day. You know, when we get to a certain age, we've kind of got a plan. But there's a tension we live in every day of, okay, I think I've got my do-do list. I have a certain sense of what today is going to look like. So I have, have that more or less. And the tension is, okay, is there enough room in there for the Lord to break in to my routine or my plan? That's the openness. So it's that kind of tension. So I think that daily conversion, if I had a podcast, I'd call it daily metanoia, is simply being attentive to what is the Lord doing in the day. How is he calling me to encounter him? Am I, it was interruptible? Like, am I open to being interrupted? Because our Lord was,

he kept getting stopped and beautiful things take place. Yes. Yeah, even St. Torres, one of your favorites. I love her. I love her too. St. Torres, you know, she had that prayer where she would plan to be. she would plan to be interrupted so that when it came she more readily accepted it and I think that that's the lively sense of God's presence that he does

care about our day he actually wants to spend some time with us he wants us to delight in the good things that he gives to us and I think that all of those are ways you know when we think about conversion we think about just either conversion into a new religion

or we think from serious sin into, you know, less serious sin. But daily conversion can also just mean a word of encouragement or lightness or openness to the beauty of God's creation and goodness. You know, there are many ways that we need conversion or need the encouragement of the gospel, I think. Do you often have people discerning with you or who are reaching out to you, and their fear is like that of Peters get away from me, I'm a sinful man. Is it a common theme where women come to you and think, I'd love to be a nun,

but if you knew my story, you'd turn me away? And there's a sense in which that could be true, right? Like if you've been so immersed in sin that it's sort of malformed your personality and you haven't sort of reconciled with yourself and the Lord, then you may not be in a place to join religious life. but it's probably also true that y'all aren't immaculate conceptions so what what's to is this something that comes up in conversations with women yes and i think um what you were talking about uh there has to be a certain readiness to respond okay so if somebody is in a pattern or of deep sin there needs to be the time of um of readiness a time of working through that

and all of the implications of a life of serious sin, right? Doesn't preclude life in religious life, but it needs to be, that time needs to, people need to work through things because what you're doing is then you're pretty quickly pivoting into embracing this life of poverty, chest, and obedience. None of us are perfect, and we all are striving for sure.

So I think the opposite end of people saying, I'm not worthy or I'm not capable, that might be an indication of some of the ways the Lord would like to heal, right, and like to refashion how do you see yourself? And before you can make a sincere gift of yourself, do you see yourself as a gift? Yeah. That might be part of the part of the... Let me get really specific. What about, what do you say to the young woman who says, I've been addicted to internet pornography?

And I'm so ashamed. And I bet I also feel a call to be a religious sister. Right. Yeah. So that there's hope, right? Start with that. Hope for healing that that the addiction would need to be dealt with. Right. And a young woman would need to come to terms with what precipitated the addiction. addiction to get to the bottom of that. What are you searching for? What loneliness are you trying to fill? So in a conversation with a young woman, I would probably first start with that of seek the help that you need. We're still here, journeying with you, praying for you, talking through your discernment. You're not cut off. But first, we need to attend to this addiction. And you need to attend to the needs of your own heart and see if in that path of healing are you able now to

embrace for a period of time, a life of chastity, so that you're moving towards the virtue of chastity and then toward the vow of chastity. So there would have to be for her own freedom, you know, that time of healing, but it's absolutely possible to receive that healing. Yeah, beautiful. Jesus is Lord. Yeah, amen. All right, to wrap up, I want to just, how do we make the decision? How do we get off the pot to say it proverbially?

Like how do we say, all right, you've been thinking about this for a while now. You've gone and visited a couple of religious orders, and you're keeping your vocation up on the chalkboard for and against, and you can't decide. And I guess, as you say, this is very personal. It's going to depend on the individual. and so every individual should be journeying with somebody. But, I mean, at some point, don't you think the advice is, come on, just do it, do it now. Right, right, right. But again, it's very personal, I understand.

But what's your advice to people who should probably make, I guess here's a question. Sorry, what are some indicators that the time has come for the decision? Right. And what would your advice be to that person to then make the decision? Great, great. Sometimes it's kind of surprising. It's that people become restless because God has placed something in their hearts that nothing in this world will satisfy and that becomes a restlessness to see that restlessness as a gift, right, the one that Augustine speaks of. and then to use that restlessness to move towards decision. And then also probably it's going to press the question, do we believe he's enough?

Is he enough to satisfy your heart? And then to also realize that visiting doesn't mean you're making final vows. and then being on retreat doesn't make mean final vows. There's a period that the church gives of discernment, of a full eight years, is the initial formation, postulency and novice for a couple of years. Those are intense times of discernment, really living the life. So that's also not like that's final. Yeah, yeah.

You know, so that's important to realize. And then also maybe for people's friends, you know, if you have a friend who enters religious life and discerns out, there's no shame in that. They have discerned and realized this is, this isn't what the Lord. I gave it my best shot. And this is actually, thanks be to God, I did it because now I see with clarity, this might not be, this isn't what he's calling me to. or if they continue, this is what he's calling me too. It sounds like you had supportive parents. Yes.

But have you encountered young men who are looking at the priesthood or women whose parents haven't been supportive? For sure. And what advice do you give to them? Great. That is very difficult. It's a specific cross that the Lord entrusts to some young people whose parents aren't supportive.

maybe in the first instance, on a practical note, to see if there's a way that the parents can visit the community that the young woman is interested in her. If there's any openness there for the parents to learn more, that would be one piece of advice. The other piece of advice or thought is that she or he and the head and toward the priesthood are still going to need faithful, people surrounding them in their vocation. They can't do it by themselves. They're going to need people to be supportive and encouraging their vocation. And then the other part of it is,

and I've known quite a few, they are heroic because they are living that call of the gospel that even should father or mother, you know, turn against me. the Lord will not. Right. So that is very, that's a very real struggle for some sisters and for some seminarians and priests.

It's a very real struggle. The Lord doesn't abandon them. Amen. Final question. Is there a book you recommend to people who are discerning religious life? And if not, was there a particular book that helped you as you were journeying towards this decision? There's a book we use on our retreat. by Father Thomas Dubay on consecrated virginity.

Okay, beautiful. Why that's really beautiful is because, you know, we've been talking about chastity. It's kind of the all-encompassing of the vows. And so is obedience and poverty, but chastity. And that book, why it's very helpful is it says all the reasons why not to pursue this vocation. And we use that on retreat

because it gives a lot of clarity to the young women. And what's it called? So it's called, and you are Christ by Father Thomas Dube. Fantastic. Sister Mary, Rachel, thank you very much. Thank you, Matt. Thank you very much. All right, everybody.

Thank you so much for watching this show. If you haven't already, click subscribe, click the bell button. We'd really appreciate it. And in the comment section below, tell me the single best piece of advice you have heard. Maybe it was in this podcast or somewhere else. else about discernment. Let's encourage each other in the comments section. God bless you. I'm Brendan Steinhauser, CEO of the Alliance for Secure AI. We're a coalition of patriotic Americans who want to stop AI from taking our freedoms. Big Tech is propping up AI-powered mass surveillance

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