Pints With Aquinas - Evangelization, Racism, and How to Have a Good Marriage w/ Deacon Harold Burke-Sivers ​

Episode Date: July 29, 2023

Dcn. Harold's New Book "Building a Civilization of Love: A Catholic Response to Racism." https://ignatius.com/building-a-civilization-of-love-bclp/ Promo Code: IPBCLP Bob Schucht's Course on Marriage: https://jpiihealingcenter.org/product/unveiled-series/  

And we're long. Deacon. Lovely to have you back on the show. Thank you. It's great to be back, Matt. Really is from Australia. Yes. Well, and New Zealand and Papua New Guinea.

Bless you. Yes. I am jet lagged. I'm honest with you, but is the longest overseas speaking tour I've ever done. Three weeks. I left July 4th and came back on the 24th. Three weeks. How many talks did you give?

Oh, 50. Wow. Something like that. 50. Yeah, well see, you're gonna be going to with Charbel and Perusia Media. Yep, Sydney, December, I'll be there. Yep.

Yeah, yeah. You and Trent, right? I think Jason Everett. Oh, Jason, that's right, you and Jason will be there. So you won't be having the schedule that I have. This way, yours was wild. But it was great, it was awesome. That's right you and Jason. So you won't be having this schedule that I have But it was great it was um, it was awesome. So never been in New Zealand before it's beautiful Yeah, it's a beautiful. It's really beautiful. Just went to Auckland didn't go down to Christchurch Yep on this first on this first trip. Yeah, I think I always say that no because it was that's the Northern Island, isn't it?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I always say when I was there it felt like Scotland and Hawaii had a baby it? Yes. Yeah. I always say when I was there, it felt like Scotland and Hawaii had a baby. It's rugged and tropical. And yeah, when people say like, where should I go? Australia, New Zealand? I'm like, probably New Zealand. It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. So I had a wonderful time there. Dominic and the folks from Evangelion invited me to come and gave some talks there and that went fine. Then headed off to, so I flew to Brisbane, met Charbel, and then we flew to Papua New Guinea. Wow. And Matt, tell me about that. Matt, look, not only was that one of the best speaking experiences of my life, it was one of the best experiences of my life,

period. I mean it was, so so Charbel and I flew from Brisbane to Port Moresby. We get off the plane like literally off the plane step into the jetway and there's someone there from Airport Services. So I'm here to take you. I'm like okay we take us down to baggage claim and you know help us with immigration. Okay this is great. So as we're walking toward the top of the Jet Bridge, there's photographers and media and all these people. Like what's going on? So we get to the top of Jet Bridge,

they introduce themselves. Hey, take your passport and your baggage tags and your tickets, just give them to these folks over here. More airport officials. I'm like, okay, so Charbel and I give our stuff. We're going over here. So we go into this VIP room, and I didn't know they had these rooms in the airport.

This VIP lounge, they have drinks in there, and I'm meeting the Prime Minister's wife and the people in NUCEO, and all this kind of, and I'm sitting there going like, what is going on right now? You know who I am, right? I'm like, what's going on right now? And so they kind of introduce all the main people,

and they said, well, I'm gonna go down for the official greeting. So we walk out the back of the airport, down some stairs, there's hundreds of folks in indigenous dress and they do this formal like greeting and we parade around this back parking lot and it was it was absolutely amazing. And then, so then we, after the beautiful ceremony, and I'm going to be putting videos on my YouTube channel soon. And that's another thing, I just got demonetized, but that's another story. Whoa, we'll get to that. Yeah, yeah. So we get into this van, and as the van pulls off, I realize, wait a minute,

we're in a motorcade. There's motorcycles, there's two pilot vehicles, there's trail vehicles behind us, and they start blocking traffic, and we're going through it. I'm like, wait a minute. I just broke down and started crying. Okay, why are they doing this? At what point did you look at Charbel and be like?

The whole time I was looking at Charbel. Charbel, what's going on, bro? I'm a Catholic deacon, right? Yeah, so this was the first time that they had an international Catholic speaker in the country, speaking to the large, the groups the size that I did. And so they treated us, me and Charbel, like international dignitaries. But we didn't know that going in. Oh, so he wasn't even aware this was going to happen. No, he wasn't aware of it either.

So we're just caught off guard. So as we're driving through this motorcade, I'm just crying and Sharp House, you okay? I'm like I'm just completely overwhelmed. I'm in shock. I'm overwhelmed. You know and so we get to the the Bishop's Conference offices, complex really, because it's more than just offices like there's a studio there's apartments and a bookstore and all these things like you know and it's gated thing so we pull in and these guys get out and I just then I realized Matt I have a protection detail okay there were six guys with me and Charbel the entire time and these are like Secret Service guys like wait okay so we so we go in and there's a press conference.

The room is full. There's a table, microphone set up. You sit here, Charbel, you sit here. This is the head of the Bishop's Conference, Bishop Otto, great guy. You sit here. So they have this big old press conference. People are taking pictures.

It's made the national news. And I'm still in complete shock. Then they get up and say, oh, no, Deacon Howard was so grateful to have him here, he's here to reawaken a nation. And I'm thinking, I'm sitting in a press conference, I'm smiling, and I'm thinking, I'm doing what? I thought I was here to talk to Catholics.

And so I got up there and made us, just made like a kind of some remarks and Charbel got up there and made some remarks. And so then the press conference over, they have a lunch in there spread. So, and I'm still like, now I'm getting nervous because this is, I'm, this is not a normal gig here. You know what I'm saying? So here's the thing.

So I always travel with a sports coat, okay? Because I like pockets. Wallet. I love pockets. Need a pocket. Phone. Rosary. I hate this shirt because it doesn't have a pocket.

Exactly. I need a breast pocket. Exactly. So I carry all my stuff. So I left on July 4th. So I go to my dry cleaner, my guy, right? Okay. And I go to him the week before. I drop all my stuff. So I left on July 4th, so I go to my dry cleaner, my guy, right? And I go to him the week before, I drop off my jacket,

I say, hey, can you get this movie before I leave on the 4th? He goes, oh, just come back on the 3rd on Monday, no problem. So I go to pick it up, and he's closed. The sign says closed 3rd and 4th for the Flight to O'Fall. So he just spaced it. So I'm like, ugh, so I'm a little frustrated.

So I had to bring just a regular jacket, you know? And so after press conference over, the detail says, what do you want to do now? And I'm like, well, I need a, I need a sports coat. I mean, is there a place I can get a coat? Yes, we got a place. So two guys get in a pilot car. They go, four guys get in with me and we go, not blocking

traffic this time. We go to this tailor. And so they, I was about to get the van, said, no, no, stay here. The two guys in front get out, they clear the store. Then they come back out, okay, come in and they close the store down while I'm in there. Okay. So did they know who you were as well? Yeah. So I go in the store and I'm looking on the right. So no, no, no, we're going to make you a jacket. I said, excuse me. And so they measured me and everything. It took all the measurements to say, come back in three days. So many questions. You're going to like back end this story. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, okay. Just real quick, you went to this place, he knew who you were or did the people tell him this is

Deacon Harold? There were, it was being, it was advertised on the national news and all this stuff. So they knew that I was in town and in fact they weren't, actually the big groups there are the Seventh Day Adventists and the Ascension of God are huge there. Like huge there. So the folks that own the store were Seventh Day Adventists. But we invited them to come to the events.

So anyway, this is the jacket that they made. And then they surprised me when I picked it up with this logo. Because I just got the jacket, they had me pick out the material and everything. But when I- This is the flag, correct? Yeah, this is the flag with Papua New Guinea and that was complete and total surprise.

So I told them I will now wear this jacket everywhere. Wow. You know, just to remember that beautiful experience. That's so much nicer than saying, this is great, but could you take this off? Yeah, right. I never asked for this. Okay, so that's wild.

What was the security personnel for? Because I was international dignitary. So they treated me like if I was like a president or a diplomat or something like that. I just sent Thursday to pick you up. No wonder like this is such a let down.

And you get to the hotel that's not ready. Man it was just surreal. The whole thing was surreal. Like this is such a letdown and you get to the hotel. That's not ready It was surreal the whole thing was surreal And so then after the story said what do you want to go now? I'm like, you know And the thing is I could see they were excited because I'm like I don't want to bother these guys But they were happy to do it. They were excited and then I come to find out later. They call themselves the chaplaincy That they these are all Catholics. All these cops that were doing these details,

and they weren't just like off-duty cops. This is their specialization. And so, yeah, they wanted to do it. So I'm like, okay. And I've been on the other side of those details. I mean, I've worked President Bush, Dalai Lama, Justice Scalia, Nelson Mandela. So I know what these-

For those at home who aren't aware of you, you were law enforcement. Yes, yes. So I've been on the other side of those details. That was weird for me to be on this side of it. So I said, well, let's go to the venue. I just want to see where I'm speaking. So we go to this-

You just see somebody feeding Charbel grapes in the corner. Well, Charbel wasn't there though. So I went to the Sir John Guise Indoor Stadium is where they have in this event. So we go in and then as soon as I walk in, these people start running toward us. So the security guys jump in front to stop them. I said, no, no, it's okay, it's okay.

They come, they want autographic pictures. And I'm still, I haven't said anything yet. I've never been in this country before. I'm still like, they know who I am. I mean, it was just weird. And so then I meet with the the event coordinator and they told me here's the setup we're still setting up chairs and this kind of thing the band's gonna be here and this is stage we're gonna be speaking big big screen behind

we're gonna put your thing up there and okay great you know and they said okay where to now? I said well back to the complex you know so it was just we end up going to a nature preserve and they shut the nature preserve down while we were there, while Charbel and I were there. Same thing, six guys, eight guys with us the whole time and we're walking around looking at all these beautiful animals and indigenous plants and bird species there. So does the government think of Papua New Guinea as a Catholic or Christian country? Yes, as a matter of fact, Matt. Because one of the guys that was at the press conference

and was with all the talks, he was one of the founding fathers of Papua New Guinea. He was one of the original writers of the Constitution for the country. In fact, they're coming up on their 50th anniversary, and this is only one of two guys that are still alive that was one of the original founders. It was based on Catholic social teaching, the constitution. The country's 93% Christian and 27% Catholic. Forgive me for not knowing anything about Papua New Guinea. Primarily black, primarily English speaking?

Yes, yes. Although they have 800 languages there. That'll do. Not dialects. Those road signs must be really unwieldy. It's such a rich culture. 800, yeah. It was, it was, it was, the people were phenomenal. So the first day I spoke to, well, I was supposed to speak to politicians, political leaders and politicians in the morning

session. And then, but they didn't show up so I ended up giving the my leadership talk Which I was supposed to give to them To the priests and religious in the afternoon So I get up giving two talks in the afternoon session the priests are religious So they're about 400 of them or so showed up Then the next day was a youth rally and I gave three talks and about two thousand showed up Then the next day was open to everyone gave two talks and about four thousand people showed up. Then the next day was open to everyone, gave two talks and about 4,000 people showed up. How familiar are they with you and how are they familiar with you?

I mean, I presume they showed up cause it was a youth conference. It was you. Some of them was from Pines for the Aquinas cause they said, Oh, we saw you on Pines for the Aquinas. I'm like, wait, you, Papadoug Ginn, you saw Pines for the Aquinas. Oh yeah, we love Matt. And I'm like, what? And I told him, I told We love you. And I told him I was gonna be on. So that's why I wanted to wear the jacket. But yeah, so internet, EWTN, all of that.

Yeah, and I just, I mean, I just was, I mean, I cried several times during the thing. It was just completely overwhelming. And then, so after the last day, the left the last talk the cardinal shows up So and I said, oh your eminence, you know, it's good goes. Oh, you know, I'm sorry. I couldn't be here I was out of the country. I just got back, you know, and I'm gonna celebrate Mass at I've quit goes He goes you're gonna preach. I Said your your eminence. I said you're the cardinal. Don Don't you, no, no, no. I want you to do it.

I'm like, okay. I gotta preach with the Cardinal. It was just, I mean, that just doesn't happen. The only other Cardinal that had happened before was Cardinal George. When I got invited to speak at a catechetical conference in Chicago when he was Cardinal Archbishop there, and he was in Portland before, Oregon,

so he knew me from there. And when they invited me to come and speak, he asked me to preach at the Mass. He was like, I can't do that, you're a Cardinal. He goes, no, no, no, no. It's okay. By God's grace, did you reawaken a nation? Well, it's not me, it's the Holy Spirit. That's why I began with by God's grace.

I don't reawaken anything. Amen. That's right. I'm just the instrument, God's the musician. So I'm just trying to be a file-y tune instrument in his hands. But the reaction was phenomenal. The last they did before we left, they had a big breakfast and a kind of a final meeting and kind of processing everything. They want to establish a formal relationship now with Perusia Media and Charbel to really help catechize the country as a follow up to our being there.

There's already plans for me to come back next year and speak in more parts of the country. I bet your wife's like, I'm coming. Yeah, it was just, it was just, it was an amazing experience. Did it give you a, I mean, we always talk about how this media, right? YouTube, television, radio gets it to the whole world, but getting to see that in action must have been quite moving. Yeah. That's why, that's why I cried several times. I mean, I was just, um, and, and, you know, be honest with you, part of it too,

I think why I was so emotional was the affirmation because you remember last time I was here, I talked about how I got blasted at a talk. Oh, that's right. You were criticizing something. Yeah. And just horrible. Wokeness or something. Just horrible things that they said about me in these emails. And so this experience, that was like affirmation, like, you know, you're on the right track.

You're, you know, you're keep doing what you're doing. It's a weird thing to be a human and to Stick to what you believe to be true as you have different people yelling at you You know like someone released a video the other day and they said, you know, whether I get Praise whether I get criticism I'm just gonna keep speaking the truth and that's easy to say and everyone probably thinks that they're doing that but It's difficult to know that you're speaking the truth or that you're doing it in the way that's actually the most helpful, the most prudent when you've got different people yelling at you. Like for me personally, I have to have like

a close inner ring of really trusted advisors that I go to and I'm like, am I off here or did I go too far? Yes. All right, bring that back. You know, that's- No, you absolutely nailed it. When I get criticized, criticized You know it hurts. I don't take it personally, but it hurts because here I am I'm trying to be a loyal son of the church. I'm not preaching heresy. I'm not preaching Anything that's radical. I'm just trying to focus on the gospel what I don't want to do Matt is go down a rabbit hole I get so if people ask me questions about, you know, is Pope Francis a heretic, and what about this synod, and what about going on in Germany, what's going on with this bishop, and this. And if I start going down there, no one will remember anything that I said about the gospel,

anything about the Catholic faith. They'll just remember, here's what he said about the pope. So I refrain from going there, not because I'm afraid to talk about those things, but it's going to take away from the message that I think that God has me out here preaching about. And I don't want to get distracted. I think that's right, because at the end of the day, if somebody said to me, like, he's Pope Francis preaching heresy or something, and I guess, or whoever, maybe that's too hot button a topic, but the answer is kind of like, well, if he is or if he isn't, you be a saint.

Like regardless of the answer, the answer is you ultimately. Yeah, and I was getting questions like that on the whole tour and all, not in New Guinea, but mostly in Australia. And I said, look, you know, here's the thing. I can't control what's going on in Rome. I can't control. What I can control is my ability to pray and fast for the church, for the pope. I pray for the pope every night during Vespers. I included my intentions. I pray every day for church. I dedicate a rosary when I do my rosary every day.

And I can fast. That's what I can do for the church. But what I'm going to stay focused on is preaching the truth and beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's what I can do for the church. But what I'm going to stay focused on is preaching the truth and beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's what I can do. Ed Faser recently said that the failures of the pope and bishops and hierarchy and whoever else to proclaim the truth doesn't alleviate us of the responsibility of doing that. Like we've actually been commanded as Catholics to do that. Yeah. I think I am with you. Yeah

Yeah, so uh, but it was great. I mean so uh, you know people know about pints with Aquinas You know in all three countries New Zealand and Papua New Guinea and Australia It's always saw you on pints with Aquinas and and of course charbel was on Yeah with you a couple months after I was on charbel and what Such a joy. What a guy. He's amazing. So dedicated to the mission. And Christine, his wife, is about to give birth to baby number nine. Glory to Jesus Christ. You know, so they have a beautiful family.

And it was interesting this time to see his kids, because I've been traveling to Australia now since 2012, and to see his kids grow up, you know, I said, Michael, the first time I saw you were five or something like that, and now he's like the 16 year old, tall, he's taller than everybody now, and he's becoming a young man now. It's like, wow, this is so beautiful to see. Why do you keep going back? They keep asking me to come back.

Why do you keep saying yes? Well, this is what God has called me to do. It says, in the Matthew's gospel, Matthew 28 and 19, it says, go and make disciples of all nations, right? So I didn't think that that was going to be me, you know, but I also want to support the work that Charbel and Parousia is doing. They're doing some phenomenal work of evangelization, you know, and Charbel and I have now been to 10 countries together on 20 different trips

Bringing the message of the gospel that perusia comes with resources to help build people's faith and and to strengthen them on their journey And it's just been beautiful to be part of that I don't know if you were in Papua New Guinea long enough to know but what are the kind of competing? Forces or who are the prominent enemies of the church in Papua New Guinea is there? Islam have a strong presence new atheism, you, wokeness, what's going on? Yeah, Islam doesn't have a strong presence, although I think it's growing. I think the secularism, I was told by the founder, one of the founding fathers was that they've kind of, they're kind of losing their Christian roots, you know, and that's one of the founding fathers was that they've kind of, they're kind of

losing their Christian roots, you know, and that's one of the reasons why they had this rally. You know, it's kind of reawakened people to, hey, wait a minute, let's go back to who we are. Let's not be like everybody else in the world. Let's go back to just being who we are, you know? And so, I think my job is to go in and just fire people up and remind them, you know, that Jesus Christ is the heart and the center, not only of their life, but

those principles of Christ was the foundation for the country. You know, still again, 93% Christian. So, but let's not lose that. Let's not slip anymore. You know, let's keep building and growing. I think there's a hunger there. And the questions that the youth ask, deep, serious questions. These young people are thinking. They're very much aware of what's going on with the woke culture and transgender and all these things, or marriage, a lot of questions about marriage. You know, it's like, wow, okay. You know, some very, very good questions. And so that showed me that these young people are hungry.

There's a deep desire there for truth, the truth that sets them free, not only to love the way God loves, but to become the person who God created them to be, you know. And to be a facilitator of that, you know, is just an amazing experience. I do think that Americans and other Catholic Christians in the Western world have something to teach those who are only now beginning to get the propaganda of same sex marriage and these other things, because I think that many of us were weak as this came down the pipeline, because we were told that we'd be on the wrong side of history and you don't want to be someone who's a hater or phobic or something like that. And I think many Catholics were kind of cowed into silence in private conversations. They might say, well,

I disagree with it, but there were maybe not as many as there should have been. Certainly weren't as many as they should have been standing up with love and charity to those who same sex attraction, but proclaiming what marriage is. So it's kind of cool for you to go to Papua New Guinea and maybe from what we've learned from being cowardly, not you specifically, but Catholics in America being able to say, no, this is, this is not something to pussy foot around with. You have to rebuke this full throatedly. Yeah. It's the truth. It's the truth in love. But we also have to love the truth, you know, and, and that's when I talk about these difficult issues, I do it with love and charity and respect, because every single person is made in the image and likeness of God and deserves our dignity and unconditional love and respect. And you have to go with that kind of mindset, not with the ideology of hate.

And let's talk, let's have a discussion, but people don't wanna talk right now, they just wanna argue. You know, there's this divisiveness, there's a hatefulness, and you can't really have a conversation. You know, it's just hard. And so when I get criticized like you,

I have a group of people that I go to. And well, not so much am I off here. I do have a group of people, that same group of people, if I say something that's off wrong call me out on it If I'm going down a rabbit hole from saying, please let me know but usually I get criticized I'm feeling like ah Because as you start thinking maybe I should not say that again

Maybe I said what did I say that was, you know? And you start questioning yourself. I love your humility because I think too many people, myself included, want to pretend that the criticism doesn't affect us and that we're not rattled. You'd much rather be like, no, this is the truth and I'm saying it and this is it and I don't care what you think. But I think just to be a kind of humble human is to, you know, reflect, okay, did I get something wrong there?

Maybe I did. I've been wrong once before. Maybe this is the second time, you know? Yeah, the typical criticism I get is that I'm too loud. You know, you're too loud or you're angry. I'm like, I honestly can't remember the last time I was actually angry. Like literally, I can't remember when I was angry. I'm passionate.

I grew up in Hillside, New Jersey. I grew up in a black neighborhood, but I went to the other side of town to go to church and to go to the school Christ the King. So I grew up around a lot of Italians. Very expressive, speak with their hands, very emotional. Plus I got the jersey going on. I got all that going on. And I love being Catholic. And so when I speak, I speak with passion and love and conviction, but some people mistake that for anger. I'm like, why am I not angry at all? You don't change.

Or loud. I'm too loud. Like, you know, some people, some of the older people are grateful. Oh my goodness, I had to take my hearing aids out. I can actually hear you. That's great. And somebody said, well, your style is just too, because they're used to the talking head sitting there lecture at them.

You know, and they're not used to someone that's because they say, Oh, you sound Protestant. Like, no, I sound like a Catholic who's in love with Jesus, actually. You know, I had Dennis Prager on my show and we were going back and forth on pornography and people were like, wow, he's getting really offended or heated. And and I really at no point thought that. And I don't think he did either. My point is, I don't think people are used to having, let's say, he did in the positive sense discussions without them devolving.

And so they're kind of afraid of that kind of also when my wife and I like getting to heated like back and forth. We're just both powerful personalities. We've had a I've had her on the show before we started arguing about something and people like, Oh my gosh, please stop fighting. We're like, is in the live stream. Oh no, we're not angry at all. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We talk. Yeah, exactly. So I mean, and I'm not going to change. I guess there's a couple of people I reach out to and same thing. If they get blasted, they reach out to me. Yeah. You know, and we text each other and just sometimes we talk and, you know. And but but here's the affirmation. A couple of months later, after I was on the show, I gave that same talk that I got blasted for at another parish.

For the audience. What was that talk on just briefly? So it was called Meeting Jesus in the Beauty and Truth of the Catholic Faith. This was a talk for middle school kids. And I could tell as I was given the talk, look at their faces, they're like, they've never heard this before. And I'm like, oh, okay, I thought this was a Catholic school, you know, I thought. And I didn't say anything deep, I was just like literally in passing,

well, what are some of the challenges in the culture that maybe prevent us from meeting the real Christ? You know, they say marriage is something else other than the man and the woman. That boys can be girls and girls can be boys and that child in the womb is not a, just in passing, no, no, nothing deeper than that. And that's when I got blessed. So I give that exact same talk at another parish in Maryland. And then I was on the road, I got back and there was a, an envelope like over an inch thick, and

I thought it was a manuscript. Like, people always send me books and stuff like that. Can you read this for me? Do you think? I'm like, okay. So I open up and it's the cover letters from the principal of the school. The one you got blasted at? Or the new one?

No, no, this is the new one. And it says, I just want to thank you for coming and these are letters from the kids that want to write you. Not notes, like full-on handwritten letters. One of them was saying, you know, I didn't think Jesus loved me, but after hearing your talk, I truly believe that Jesus loves me and, you know, I'm going to be on fire for my faith. I'm like, letter after letter after letter, sixth, seventh, eighth graders. And it was like, wow. The same talk, I get blasted. Not by the kids, by the way.

The kids were saying, when are you coming back? This was the parents, some of the teachers that were there. But to see these letters from the kids, they get it. And I didn't say anything different in that talk. And again, another beautiful affirmation. And same thing, and I had a wonderful experience in Parramatta in the suburb of Sydney. I spoke to 1300 high school, well middle school kids, two groups like 700 and 600 middle school and high school kids on the mass. Yeah. You know

what it was called what's the big deal about mass and I said what's the number of reason you think young people your age tell me what they don't like about mass? It's boring! And they got it. And then I spoke, and there were kids after that lined up to say thank you. They wanted to take pictures with me and stuff. And it was just, you know, and then I got a little, I got an email from the principal there with pictures saying, hey, the kids are still talking about it and stuff.

So they want truth, Matt. They want to hear the truth and they're not hearing it. I hear that from young people all the time. And that's why I think they keep having me come back. I spoke in Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney this time. Packed, standing room only. Audiences at most of the venues. It was just, you know, there's

a hunger and a desire there. Okay, out of Brisbane, you have to pick one. Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, what's your favorite city? I have one. Oh boy. Well, I've spoken in Sydney more than anyplace else. Plus, I have a very strong connection with the Maronites. So, Syena, the Archbishop was there at the mass that I deacon. I have faculties granted by Syedna to function as a deacon and a Maronite, right, in Australia, and which I did, it was just, I love the Maronite, right. It's just so beautiful. Is that what you're going to do?

Yeah, I think I'm going to pick Sydney. Oh, because I've been there the most out of the other cities. It's glorious, isn't it? It's beautiful. I Yeah, I think I'm going to pick Sydney. Oh, because I've been there the most out of the other cities. It's glorious. It's beautiful. I'd say Brisbane. I used to live in Brisbane. Yeah. Yeah. Brisbane is smaller. It's more tropical. It's more laid back. I love Brisbane. Yeah. Hopefully spend more time there soon. So we'll see. Uh, jet lag knocks me really hard. I, I don't know what this is going to sound like, but if I go to Australia and come back, hard. I don't know what this is going to sound like, but if I go to Australia and come back, I can't trust my emotions for the next several days because I I I don't know. Does that make any sense to you?

Like, I find myself I get more weepy. I like I can't sleep. I'm I have these ideas that I'm like, don't listen to that. Just wait till this fog clears. There's something about that gigantic trip, I think just the amount that you're traveling and just not to mention the lack of sleep and the time change that does a real number on you.

Yeah. You can say no, I feel like I must be unique in that. No, no, I don't get disoriented. It's just that the sleep is the thing for me. I try to stay awake, so I can actually try to go to sleep at a regular time and things like that. And you know, especially now knowing that I have the Defending the Faith Conference coming up and then I have, I'm filming for Emmaus Academy, I'm saying a couple extra days I'm doing a class on evangelization. Then I'm

going to San Antonio, Texas to give a keynote for Greg and Julie Alexander, the Alexander House in San Antonio. Then I'm going to Jacksonville, North Carolina. I'm actually doing a wedding. It's only my third wedding in 20 years, ordained as a deacon. You've got more energy than me. And I'm speaking at the Parish, Infinite Prague Parish in Jacksonville. I'm speaking there Sunday to day after the wedding. I fly back Monday. And then my wife and I are going on our anniversary trip, 29th anniversary trip. Yeah. So busy. So with all knowing all that's coming out,

I don't really have time to, you know, they say, they say it takes one day for every hour of time change to recover. And I just don't have that kind of time. So I just have to keep pushing. Sorry. Pushing through, you know, better than me at that. Um, I wanted to point out, uh, if people go to stpoolcenter.com slash Matt, they can sign up to the Emmaus Academy that you just referenced and get two weeks for free. This is a new online digital platform that Scott Hahn and the guys over there at St. Paul Center have put together for people who want to better understand the Bible. And

so what are you, do you mind me asking what you're doing? Yeah, evangelization is what they want to talk about. Yeah, so the last time, I mean, I spoke at two Super Bowl conferences already this year. I spoke at Power and Purpose earlier this year and then at the Priest, Deacon, and Seminarians retreat. So since I was here, Dr. Hahn wanted me to do something and so he met me, met with the Emmaus Academy team and we kicked around some ideas and then this, looking at what their needs are. And then evangelization kind of rose to the top.

And so we talked about what that would look like. And so took their feedback, went to adoration, wrote out an outline. Then I sent it to them and they go, yep, okay, yeah, we nailed it. So I'm going to be staying and filming a couple of days. They do a really good job. It's really high production value.

Yeah, I'm real looking forward to it. Yeah. Good stuff. So have you been back home yet? Yes, yes. So I got home Monday. So I left at 9.30 a.m. and arrived in Los Angeles at 5.50 a.m. So I got back before I left on the same day.

So by the time I got home, it was almost noon. And so I had Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then the and then the flight here, which was delayed. So do you think that there's way more delays since Covid lockdown? Yes. Isn't it insane? Yes. I mean, I'm I haven't heard other people say this, but it seems to me that every time I fly every week, right, I do 250,000 miles a year.

So, yeah, I yeah I've definitely noticed a lot more delays and I'm not sure I know some of them have to do with weather this is normal but pilot time like you know that there's a certain time they can fly they have to stop they in for railroad is called outlawed like the the engineer can only be in the cab for 12 hours and wherever that train is up to 12 hours has to stop and a fresh crew has to come out and take over the train. Same thing with a pilot, so after they fly they have to take a break and so they cannot get back in that cockpit until they had this much time of rest and so that's going to delay a flight. Sometimes flight's getting in late and so the crew

is on this other plane so that plane's delayed because his other crew is late. A lot of different mechanical stuff. But it seems to me to be increasing since the pandemic. Some of it is staffing and they lay off a lot of people. And so now they're trying to hire people back. And I think that the demand rose higher than the supply. And so that's causing delays as well. When you go to conferences like defending the faith, is it, I'm sure, I know it's wonderful

because I've experienced as well, just to kind of be there with kind of comrades to use a for lack of a better term in the battle right in the Catholic battle who you've been preaching along alongside for decades, probably. I'm meeting with Jeff Cavins tomorrow for a morning cigar. Yeah, yeah. I love him so much. Oh yeah, he's fantastic. So the and the thing with me, I'm still like a fan, you know, Scott and Kimberly home

Like yeah, I get to see I get to speak with Scott on and and Jeff Cavins and Trent horn, you know It's just such an honor and a privilege Just to be around those guys here cuz I don't think of myself, you know I was having a conversation with Charbel because he thinks I'm like a top tier speak. I'm like nah I was having a conversation with Charbel because he thinks I'm like a top tier speaker. I'm like nah Nah, I'm like below like, you know a level down from those guys What do you think that when you hear those names like, you know, father Mike Schmitz and Scott Hahn and you know Jeff Kavans and you know

Those guys I I don't consider myself there. I'm like I'm like You know Those guys I I don't consider myself there I'm like I'm like it's probably just because they've had exposure and book sales that have surpassed yours Yeah, and the thing is you're any less. Yeah, the thing is I don't care Honestly, I mean I don't like oh, I'm trying to get that little I'm just trying to be faithful to Jesus That's all I mean if I don't get invited to something and people's how come you're not speaking at this How come you're not doing that? I'm like, I'm just trying to tell me to move. Oh come in Yeah, I said well I I don't really care if I don't get invited

I want to be more popular than Scott Hahn. That's my goal. That's a joke. No, okay that funny. Well I'm not trying to be popular. I'm trying to be faithful. That's all and so wherever That lands people want to categorize me as what I don't care, you know I'm just I'm just literally trying to be faithful. Is it hard to travel that much with a family? Well, the kids are older now and when they were young I wasn't traveling nearly as much as I was now and even when I left My law enforcement career and started doing this, I was not speaking at this level when I first started. So it was a gradual build up to where I am now.

And of course, COVID, I was home for over a year and all the family was home. And so we had this extra time with the kids that we didn't think we were going to have. So earlier on, you were saying like, we, it feels like we live in a society where we can't have conversations anymore. And I couldn't agree more. I've experienced this, I'd say, over the last four or five years, having to do with things like transgenderism and race and covid and masks and things like that, it really does feel like we can't have conversations anymore, that that you were being kind of pushed into two sides, like almost like two aisles, like you're over there, you're over there, you can't be in the middle.

That's exactly where you have to be. No nuances allowed. And now we're all enemies and we're not allowed to, which makes it really difficult to have conversations. Yeah, yeah. I mean, what we should be trying to doing is build is build bridges of understanding. I love that you hesitated because it to doing is build, is build bridges of understanding. I love that you hesitated because it was too close to a particular book title. That's what I thought.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, Oh, I don't want to reference that, you know, but, but, you know, so we're trying to, trying to understand each other, but instead we're polarizing each other, you know, and, and that's not where growth comes from. You know, that that's not where growth comes from. That's not where community and unity comes. Jesus prayed that they may be one. So we should be working not to be homogenous in the sense we're all thinking the same way, but at least let's try to understand each other to see where we're coming from and respect the differences.

But we don't wanna go there. I think there's almost a deliberate mechanism in place to separate and divide people. That's in my book that's coming out. I want to break that down. Let's break down the walls and let's actually talk. The accusations are blanket accusations. So for example, if a black fella says to me that a cop pulled him over and

treated him a certain way because the cop was racist, right? And I say, well, maybe not. Maybe you're a jerk or maybe he was having a bad day. And how can you make that judgment? Then I get told not always, but like, okay, you're a racist because you even questioned this narrative, right? Or if I say, well, I love people with same sex attraction. I understand it must be difficult. It's like you're something phobic. Like you have to be the furthest extreme. Or if I say, I don't think that diaper thing on your face is helping anybody.

Like why are you even wearing it anymore? Do you have a condition? Not that I'm asking people at that point blank, but it's like, well, then you're anti-science. So just those three examples, it's easy to be a racist, a homophobic and anti-science when I've just got obvious legitimate questions. And maybe that takes place from the right to the left as well.

Yeah, exactly. Of course it would. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're trying to have conversation without distinction and without understanding. Like there's a difference between prejudice and racism. And just because I disagree with you about the human sexuality doesn't mean that I hate you. Whether you wear a mask or not, that's your choice. So I may not agree with you,

but I respect where you're coming from. Like on the plane, they said, well, masks are optional. So I sit next to people sometimes who are wearing a mask, sometimes not. And I don't go to a person and say, man, the pandemic's over, why are you still wearing a mask? No, that's their business. So leave it alone.

But if they wanna have a discussion about it, let's talk. But let's be respectful. Here's where I'm coming from Here's where you're coming from let's agree to disagree, but you know hey, let's go have dinner now because I'm hungry Yeah, I agree those because GK Chastain did that right he would debate with somebody and they go for drinks afterward or You can't even broach a topic You can't even step into it to say I don't know if I agree that all white people are racist. Like you can't even say that without being accused of something. You can't even step one inch over the line they will refuse you to, won't allow you to step over without being labeled,

which makes conversation impossible. So how have you had a conversation with someone who's a kind of ideologue in regards to race, like maybe a BLM Catholic or whatever. Have you been able to successfully say, share just what you shared? Like, hey, can we disagree? But is it a? I try. Yeah. You know, but, but usually I met with vitriol.

I met with polemics and even some triumphalism, you know, because I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid. I'm not buying into the narrative, you know. I'm just seeking truth, you know, because ultimately for me it's not about who yells the loudest, it's not about who even who's right or who's wrong, it's about what's true and what's not true. Because Jesus Christ says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. So that's the kind of lens I look through things. So when I have discussions with people, well, I'm not gonna figure it all out in one discussion,

but at least let's begin a conversation. Because what's my goal, Matt? How do I get this person in front of me to want to listen to more of what I have to say? Not I want to win this argument and then push this person further away, because that's not dialogue or understanding. That's not trying to see what a person is coming from and appreciate what's gone on in their past, what's led them to thinking the way that they do.

And here's a different way of understanding. Oh, wait a minute, now that I know this about you, okay, now I can see why you think this way, you know. We'll never get there, because we're so focused on dividing and separating. That reminds me of like the old, new atheist movement that's no longer new. They kept telling me that religion was, you know, child abuse, that it was insanity, that it was Father Christmas for adults. And I just kept thinking, if you really cared about me and wanted me to know what you consider to be the truth, I don't think you'd be insulting me this much. Because you shouldn't you come shouldn't you look at me with sympathy? Like if I am so deluded, shouldn't you approach me with a sort of kindness? But you're not and it really turns me off. And so I don't I also don't want to do that to other people as you say just shut them down and

Leave the door open, you know, because when I when I ask a question and I'm met with Anger, you know And they're usually at homing them attacks, right? They attack me personally and not my argument. I said, okay, you sell those things about me. That's okay, but can you, how about what I actually said? Can we talk about that? You know, because what I find a lot of times they really don't have an argument.

It's just emoting, just responding from emotion. And I think part of it, Matt, to be honest honest with you is that a lot of people are getting information from the media And they're not reading and studying You know so so when I wrote my book Tell us about your book. Yeah, so it's called building a civilization of love a Catholic response to racism building a civilization of love comes from Fameris consortium Building a civilization of love comes from a femuris consortium.

A section of that, that Pope St. John Paul the second wrote. Just so everybody knows, there is a link in the description below to this book with a promo code to get a percentage off. Yeah. 15% off between now and next week. It's going to look something up on racism while you talk. Yeah. So, um, so I wrote the book because I wanted to have more discussions about this issue. It's a very important issue. It's one that's polarizing our country in a lot of ways.

And I think when Martin Luther King was alive, again, even then, you bring Martin Luther King, he was an adulterer. Look. People can be shitty in one way and great in another way yeah I mean like look the plank in our own eye what does that have to do with what yeah he did you know because he was someone that transcended race and culture and brought people together because his message yes that's that's truth right and that's what he ride

around him and when he was assassinated, there was no one to fill that gap. So now you have all of these individuals and ideologues and all these other folks that really are using race as a Trojan horse, but inside is actually an agenda that has nothing to do with race at all. And the way just as an outsider,

I see this is because when I have friends who are black who go, actually I'm not fully on board with this. They get slandered with more vitriol than I would as a white man. If I were to say, yeah, house, nigga Catholic Catholic. That's where I get called. Don't say that. Sorry. Why the N word? Yeah, we didn't. Sorry. No, I did. Oh, did you? Okay. Yeah. Sorry. We didn't. Sorry. No, I did. Oh, did you?

Okay. Yeah, sorry. YouTube catches, has Autobots that listen. Oh, alright. House and Catholic. Uncle Tom Catholic, that kind of thing. So, you know, and it goes with the territory because, you know, I just want to respond from motion.

So when I wrote this book, I wanted to use original sources, you know. So when I talk, so there's chapters on critical race theory, liberation theology, and the Black Lives Matter movement. And I went in, because that's not what the book is about, but that's what I'm gonna get when I do it. The book comes out and all the interviews, that's what I'm gonna ask you about. Not actually the Catholic response to racism, which I think what we can be doing, but they're gonna focus on these three areas. And the only reason I brought them in

was because people in the church are trying to bring these in as ways, oh, these are ways to ameliorate racism, bring people together, when actually, in many ways, actually help make things worse. Absolutely they do. You know, and so, like critical race theory, I, you can see the sources

in the book, Derrick Bell, Richard Delgado, Denise Defanig, Kimberly Crenshaw, I read their books and so my critique is based on what they said looking at it through the lens of can this help close the racial divide. You know so that's's, that was the same thing with liberation theology and Black Lives Matter movement. I didn't go in overly trying to criticize them. I said, okay, maybe there's something here that's good. Everybody's saying this and no, no, let me read what they say for themselves and compare that with what the Catholic Church teaches and, you know, looking at it goes, can this help actually bring people together? And so I at it was, can this help actually bring people together? And so I use their own words, their own sources, not my opinion, and I just compare that with what the church teaches. You know,

and so, but again, even though I did that, you know, hopefully people will actually read what I said. Mason And your answer, your salute, what did you come to, what conclusion did you come to? Darrell Bock Yeah, that all three. There's a common thread of, you know, Jesus talked about building and bringing people together, but their whole thing is division, separation, tension, conflict, and struggle as a way to facilitate change. Jesus came to save people in our institutions. The problem is they start with the institution in the hope of changing people. And I'm like, no, let's work the people who

are part of the institutions the other way around. So to me, it's backwards. And I described that in detail in the book. But the last part of the book is what we can actually do about it. So this is from a, like a parish based, you know, grassroots, here's what we can do as the people of God, let's roll up our sleeves, let's get in there and not be afraid to address these issues and lay out very systematically, but very easily how we can begin to work. Again, it's a Catholic response, not the Catholic solution to racism. Because what I'm hoping the book will just bring more discussion, like real discussion and not argumentation and polemics. Do you have, and you don't have to name names, what are the Catholics who are talking about

race who would thoroughly disagree with your take on this? I believe so. Yes. And can you say why you think that is? I guess you'd have to psychologize in order to do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what I what I do is I took I took the like I said, I read the the sources. So I don't know where to get any information from, like, for example, critical race theory or Black Lives Matter.

Now, I talk about how the words Lives Matter, there's nothing wrong with that at all, nothing. Right. You know, but when you, it's the movement that's the issue. And you know, and actually I was very much like, against Black Lives Matter, and then I read Bishop Braxton, who was a former Bishop of Belleville, Illinois, who's emeritus now. And I read a lot of what he had to say. He actually sat down and had a conversation with the Black Lives Matter folks.

Imagine that. He documented one of his books. And I'm like, wow. And then he really changed my mind on how to approach this whole thing, quite frankly. Because I was kind of leaning that other camp, like we have nothing to do with them, forget them. But then after Bishop Bra Brad, he comes to the same conclusion. I do like right now, really not much we can do with them right now. Um, but we should leave the door open and just, and I'm like, yes, that's,

that's right. You know, and, and people think that that means why you must agree with them. No, I don't right now at least let's keep talking But but but if you're interested in having a group change their positions You want to be able to rebuke what's false? But you also want to leave a door open to say like to try to bring them Say you could be doing a lot of good but currently you're not and I want to help you do that good, right? Yeah, if you just shut them down, you alienate them. Like I said, the idea in my mind is how do I get this person in front of me to want to listen to more of what I have to say?

Not just shut down the conversation and walk away angry. Because that's really easy to do actually. It's easy to shut down conversations. Yeah, it is. You just have to call somebody like a like a Marxist retrograde or a, you know, Catholic Puritan or something. Like it's very easy just to do that. What's difficult is to say, okay, we clearly disagree on a lot. What if we started where we did agree and maybe we could see if we could

expand out from there? Exactly. Exactly. No, I agree. 100%. Absolutely. Good. So do you get, do you find it tiresome to talk about racism a lot? Like, well, I hope not because I'm going to talk about a lot when the book comes out, but, but no, because I mean, um, I am black, you know, and, uh, and my wife is Irish and German, you know, and, uh, and these issues do come up, you know, uh, and so it's important to talk about it, again, as a way of let's find a way to healing. Let's find a way to have discussions where, you know,

because when I look at you, Matt, and I don't want to see white first, I want to see Matt first. I want to look at you and see you as someone made in the image and lightness of God. I want to see Matt first. I want to look at you and see you as someone made in the image and lightness of God. I want to see you the way God sees you. Because once I do that, now I'm able to appreciate all the other amazing, beautiful, cultural, and ethnical gifts that you bring to the table. Because now see you and now I can appreciate you fully and all the wonderful gifts that you bring. But I think that's where we need to start with, you know, seeing someone the way God sees them. And I talk about that in the book and I use Saint Teresa of Calcutta as a beautiful example of that. I mean, people that were literally like garbage at

the side of the road that no one even paid attention to, like they didn't even exist. She saw Jesus in them and that's enabled her to do the work that she did. Yes, she had a long time of dark night of the soul, but that did not stop her from from seeing Jesus in every single person that she that she touched. I think part of the reason it's hard to have discussions is we aren't having them. That's perhaps why we're so bad at it. We watch people on YouTube or CNN say things. And in a normal conversation, if I said something that you like,

I don't agree with that, you gently push back. You like, oh, you like oh I don't and I'd like oh and then I'd clarify that's how conversations often go especially as we talk about things we might disagree on till we get oh I see I think we're saying the same thing or no I still think we're disagreeing but it's a very in the context of friendship a conversation can be charitable but I did that with Ben Shapiro I I saw when Ben had you on his show and you were talking about the porn thing. Yeah. You know I was like oh okay. It kind of started almost seemingly at the beginning there was a little off but then as you guys began talking I'm like oh okay there's points of convergence here. Yeah. You know and that to me was a

discussion. Yeah. That was a conversation., we try to understand each other. That's right. More of that, please. Yeah. And yeah, but it's like, but if I, if all, if my only relationship to this personality is them spewing stuff on YouTube, good, bad, or otherwise, it's, I can't clarify. I'm not in a position to clarify with them necessarily. And so I often take them, I take what they have to say and go and, and, and, and, um, uh, try to, I understand it the worst possible way or the best possible way, depending

on whether or not I think they're on my team or not. So we're not actually having discussions. I, I think about that so often when I'm talking with a friend, I really want them to give me the benefit of the doubt as I try to make sense of the world or different topics as they come up. No, you're, you're exactly right. And you know, you have to take into account someone's background, someone's worldview. So what I try to do is actually get to know the person and not just their argument. Why are they so different from the way I think? You know, because that's easy to do. Well, this person thinks differently than what I think. So I'm just going to convince

them by making this argument. They're gonna come and see why they should think like me. Instead of like, okay, wow, I totally disagree with what this person's coming from. Let me learn something about that person. Because that gives you a much well-rounded perspective, a holistic approach to understanding the person. Ah, okay, now I can see how you began to

think this way. And let me share my story with you. Now we're sharing stories, and from there we can start to have conversations. You know, because we've entered into each other's personal space, if you will. Objectifying the other. Right, exactly. Now we're beginning to understand experience as a catalyst to conversation. And I think that's what we should be doing more of. And I try to do that. I try to get the know the person a little bit.

I can example just yesterday, just yesterday. So my domain registration company that I use got bought out, and so I have to transfer all my domains to another service. So I was on the phone with this person yesterday, and so we're going through deaconharald.com, ignitecatholic.com, and Catholic Speaker,

I mean all the different ones that I own. And the lady was like, do you mind if I ask you a personal question? I said no. She goes, what do you do for a question?" I said, no. She goes, what do you do for a living? I said, I'm a Catholic speaker and author. She goes, I thought it was a faith, just the names of all these different things. And she goes, I just find that very interesting. I said, really? Tell me about that. And we talked for an hour, and I think it was an hour and

13 minutes. I hope they weren't reviewing that cool. She'll get fired. I know, I know. But she just felt, she just started talking about her faith or her journey and how she's frustrated. She's 28 years old and she's frustrated with people her age because they don't get it. Like they're into like this TV show, like in the end those things don't matter. The world is changing. There's things going on and we need to be in the Word. And she wasn't Catholic, but you know it was just a beautiful conversation. You know, and just getting, I mean she's not Catholic, you know, but I was like, okay,

I totally get, here's the points of convergence and agreement. Yes, I totally see that. And you know, and then she started asking, well, what about the Catholics about the Catholic and so actually Catholics don't believe he's like Catholics Really? Yeah, I didn't know that see that's This was yesterday. Well, whenever we perceive something is a threat. We tend to fight or flight, right? We tend to engage it Aggressively or just like hey, I don't want to talk about this and we leave but what you did yesterday was you gained this person's trust by taking an interest in them and your Catholicism presumably wasn't now a threat to her.

She was actually open to hearing it. And it was beautiful. She was talking about her dad and she has some PTSD because there was a thunderstorm in the background because I could tell her voice, her voice was shaking. I said, you okay? She goes, I got a little PTSD. Again, she explaining her father came back from Afghanistan and sometimes when the microwave goes off

or there's a firework, he has PTSD. And so she kind of has a bi-association kind of a thing and she's working on that. It was such a beautiful conversation. And I felt so wonderful. Like that was one of the best customer service experiences I've ever had Yeah, you know it was it was grassy. This is the kind of thing we needed to be doing more of

How old were you when you decided to become a deacon? Well, how did that happen? Yeah, so I spent time discerning vocation with the Benedictines back in Newark Abbey I went to st. Benedict's prep and I've always felt since about nine or ten, a pull, a call, a tug, an attraction, which I thought at first was gonna be a priest, then I thought was gonna be as a monk. And then when I left the monastery and... How long were you there for? So all together almost three years.

Okay. Which monastery? Newark Abbey. Newark. Okay. Yeah and great. In fact my, one of my roommates is the Abbot now. In fact that's a roommate because there was a year when I was a junior at St. Benedict's that they they closed the monastery for a year to renovate it. So they lived in what's called Turrell House, which is a housing thing because sometimes you know in that neighborhood in Newark, we get kids that have issues at home, and so this is a place for them to come and be safe, and to live, and so the monks moved in there.

So, Abbot Augustine was postulant at the time. In fact, he was working on his- Abbot Augustine? Curly. Okay. Yeah, Abbot Augustine Curly. He got his doctor from Boston College on St. Augustine. So he was actually working on his dissertation while we were rooming together and stuff.

So now he just became Abbott last year. Was it hard to leave the monastery? I don't know this about you. Yeah. So I left because my mom got sick. I didn't leave because I didn't think I was called. After my parents divorced, I helped my mom take care of the family. When my mom got sick and almost died, my brothers were like, what do we do?

My sister was still in high school. So I left temporarily to run things at home until my mom was able to go back to work. And during that time, I went to the monastery, went to a wedding, which I wouldn't be able to do if I was in the monastery. And at that wedding, I met the woman who ended up being my wife. So I still felt called. And so we moved to Oregon. That's when I felt the call to the diaconate or felt that God was still calling me to something. So I got to the pastor. I was doing pastoral council in St. Vincent de Paul and this committee and all this, all the service and lectors and it wasn't enough. You know, it just, I was busy but it just wasn't fulfilling. And

then, and then, you know, literally, I mean this is, I know this is gonna sound strange. I'm not like really like charismatic in that sense, but so we moved to Oregon in August of 95. So this was this was now spring 96. I've been to the parish only like six, seven, about 10 months, less than a year. And this was the first Easter vigil. And so the Gloria and the bells,

the bells are ringing, the candles blow out. And so during the Gloria, I heard a male voice say, Deacon. Now we had no Deacons in the parish. I thought that there was someone in the parish named Deacon, like Deacon Jones or something like that. So I turn around. I'm like, who said that? It was loud enough, like, did nobody else hear that? And I looked at my wife, she was singing, I'm like, what was that? I mean, I'm not hearing things, I heard it. And so, I'm like, okay, this is odd. So after I went to my pastor, Father Nicholas at the time, from Tanzania, Father Nicholas Morandu, and I said, Father, who's deacon? Thinking someone in the

parish who I haven't met yet is named deacon. He said, oh you'll be a great deacon. I said, no. I said, what are you talking about? I said, I'm married. Because after that point I've never seen a permanent deacon. So he goes, no, no, permanent deacon. So his accent was very heavy at that time. And so he said permanent. I had not heard that phrase before. I didn't know what he was saying. So he goes into the sacrosy. He gets the documents of Vatican two, Lumen Gentium 20, 96, read that at the lower end of the hierarchy is the deacon. And I read that paragraph and like, Oh my goodness, that's exactly what

I'm supposed to be doing. And so I was accepted into the program at 30 years old. What year? This was 1996. So the permanent diaconate in America probably wasn't in full swing back then, or was it? Well, it was, but the training was all over the place. So the Vatican documents had just come out on the directory for the Ministry and Life of Deacons. That came out about 95 or so. And so the US bishops took a few years, they took that and adapted it to deacons in the US. In fact, the second version of that came out, I think two years ago, the updated version. So now the training is much more even across,

because before it was just like two years and they were damn like, ooh, wait a minute, where's the theology, where's all the human formation, intellectual formation, spiritual formation, all of that. And so, yeah, so in our diocese at that time, we required a master's degree in theology. So that's, the University of Dallas, that's when they were flying professors around. So there was Institute for Religious,

IRPS, Institute for Rel Religious Pastoral Studies. And so they had satellite campuses in Denver, I think in Omaha, in Minneapolis, in Portland, in Florida. And so Father Mitch Pacquiao was teaching at that time. And Mark Brumley was an adjunct professor, Ed Peters for Canon Law, Marcio D'Ambrosio was also also like these rock star teachers. It was phenomenal. And, uh, and so finished school,

two years of formation after that was ordained in November 23rd, 2002. So I was 30. I have a concern that I don't think, I think anybody would agree with this, including everyone who's discerned the diaconate is that you've got middle aged men who are going through a midlife crisis and want more power and influence and that they're not finding in their current job. And they think the diaconate will somehow solve that.

I imagine formation weeds these fellas out. It should. But do you agree with that? That that's at least a temptation for many men? Yeah, I think so. At least in the beginning, the application kind of process. Yeah, because what usually happens is that someone says, hey, I think you ever think about the diaconate?

Like, no, no, no, that's not for me, that kind of thing. I mean, it's usually something they not really have thought about before, the guys who like may be really called. Because what's happening is that the church is recognizing you're serving the diaconia in your home with your wife and your family. And now the church is, through the discernment process, is this man called to share these same diakonia gifts with the entire church. See, so that's what the discernment process is about. And so, just like any discernment process, when you enter it, you're not entering,

saying I'm gonna be a deacon, I'm discerning. I think that's the other thing we get, once you join a program, I'm gonna be a deacon. Well no, this is all about discernment, what is God's will in all of this. The way you know you're really called is when the bishop lays his hands on your head. That's when you know for sure.

Up until then, you're discerning. Just like marriage, you're discerning until you exchange those vows and put the rings on now You know up until that you just you're even to the day before you're discerning. It sounds like you're cool to the diaconate Dovetailed nicely with your gifts of preaching Traveling evangelizing. Yeah, so the the thing is I'm an introvert though. So I'm not naturally comfortable speaking and I think how that gift developed was when I went to training at FLETC, Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, I came back and started teaching at the police academy, Contemporary Threat Assessor Methodology, and cops hate sitting

in class. They don't like it. They'd rather be out there doing what they're trained to do. But I'm passing on information that's gonna save lives. So I'm thinking to myself, how do I get this information across in a way that's meaningful, that's engaging, that's interesting, but not boring?

And what if I was sitting out there? How would I want to hear this? So I think that my style developed from that thinking. And then I think the Lord took that and married it with the faith formation that I received in my Master's degree in theology and kind of married those two things together. And that happened over a period of 11 years, where that transition took place. I mean, does the bishop, could the bishop say to you, I need you to stop traveling? I need you to be in the,

I don't know how much flexibility bishops have, deacons have. So for example, Father Mike Schmitz, right? He doesn't travel that much because his bishop considers him a pastor. Even though he's in charge of the Newman Center, the college campus, that's his parish. So he just can't be going out, right? Because his job is to be there.

My job is speaking. That's how I get paid and that's how I take care of my family. So it's my job. And since the bishop and the diocese probably don't want to be funding all of the deacons. They probably are incentivized to let you do your job. Right. It's gonna be different. We travel so much. Well, wait, what if I was in the military and I was stationed Away from home. That's how is that different? You know, but the thing is, you know, the thing is when I'm home paying attention to my wife and

The family and making sure that I'm not constantly working all the time because I could do that. So I'm home, paying attention to my wife and the family and making sure that I'm not constantly working all the time, because I could do that. So I'm a workaholic. But I have to purposefully set time aside to make sure I'm very attentive to what's going on with my wife, especially. Because kids are all adults now. But still, for example, my daughter's about to go back

to school, so I'm going to make sure we have a twins day. So, um, my son is a chef. He's working in the restaurant and my daughter's in college. They're twins. So when they were kids, I took them on a twins day, just me and the twins. So now they're 20 and we still do it. So, so when I get back, we're going to do a twins day. And we usually go into the Powells, the big bookstore. It's the biggest bookstore west of the Mississippi.

Okay. And in Portland is an entire city block. Wow. Four stories. It's an amazing place. And then we go for dinner afterwards. We just have a little daddy time with the twins and stuff. It's really, really nice.

So, still be able to do that. Yeah. It's very important. I know you've written or at least I saw a course you did once on preparation for marriage. It was a DVD series back in the day. But can I ask you a personal question and you can be as frank as you want? What was the most difficult time in your marriage and how did you move through that?

Um, I think the most difficult time was well, and still is in a way, faith issues. People assume because I'm Deacon Harold that everybody in my family thinks like I do and that's not the case. And so we do struggle with faith issues and things like that. Is your wife not Catholic? No, she's Catholic. She's Catholic. But you know, so we've gone to counseling, communication things I had to learn in the beginning because did not have a good experience with my father as far as like how to be a father of a family. Because I was going to the monastery so I didn father as far as like how to be a father of a family now because I was

Gonna monastery so I didn't think it was even gonna be an issue Yeah, but but learning that and and but her love and support for everything that I'm doing It's great but then there's also other things that we're not seeing eye to eye on and trying to work through those issues with with honesty and and You know, so so, so that's... I think it's so important that people who watch this and who admire you and admire other Catholics realize that even though they have good marriages, you can have a good marriage and still process things and work through things that are more difficult than anything

you've experienced in your life. I'm afraid sometimes that people compare the internal of their marriage to what they think, say, our marriages look like. It's my wife and I are in a really beautiful spot right now where I think we had fallen into some. Unhelpful ways of communicating, you kind of slip into these bad habits and habits are really hard to break. Like once you get into a real habit, whether it's just drinking coffee every morning or going to a certain place every morning, it just kind of becomes like the thing you do. And you can do that with speech and you can do that with assuming the worst of each other

under certain circumstances. But then to find, then to go to push past that and to find a, yeah, growth and new things is a beautiful, is a beautiful thing. Yeah. Cause she's just not as passionate about things that I am, but we're two different people. And so she processes things differently and, and, you know, and then so conversations, you know, sometimes can be a little difficult. But our love that we have for each other is not weighing or anything. It's not affecting our marriage, I'm not gonna leave, nothing like that.

But still, these are things that a lot of couples wanna avoid. Let's not just talk, let's not talk about it, let's put it aside and not, it's like mold, like oh, I just say a patch of mold, I'm not going to worry about it. But then you're like, Ooh, that was starting to smell a little bit. You know, it's like, Ooh, Here's an example. I heard Bob Schutze's daughter give, and I apologize that I've forgotten her name, but she had this story that there was a bit of mold in the kind of in their

bathroom and she was taking a bath one day and she noticed it. And she realized if that mold was in the guest bathroom, we would have done something about it by now. And she likened that to issues we might have in marriage. Like when things are public, let's deal with that. But when things are kind of in that internal back and forth between husband and wife, the temptation is, it's just, let's not worry about it right now. And it grows. Yeah, yeah. And so it right now. And it, and it grows.

Yeah. Yeah. And so people like, you said, Oh, she wants to go to Papua New Guinea. Actually she does. I mean, because part of it, she doesn't like the attention she gets when she's with me, especially not in Papua New Guinea. She's a clinical therapist. So she has a private practice and one-on-one small group. Yeah. She's phenomenal, but big groups like this and that kind of thing. So what then is helpful advice to give to engaged couples or newly married couples given how different we all are? I mean, you take any two people, you and I, very different people.

You take you and your wife, me and my wife, you've got this entity that's significantly different because you've got two very unique people. So what kind of general advice do you find you've been giving in marriage talks that have benefited folks? Yeah, I think listening and not being afraid to be vulnerable. You know, cause I think a lot of people like the whole thing's in cause they think, Oh, if I say this and this is going to cause a problem. But sometimes it's better to say what's on your heart and really

process and, and talk about, even though it's hard, let's try to work through this. And there may be some, you leave that initial conversation like, ooh, that was awkward, or ooh, that's weird, but again, you come back and say, okay, now it's out there, now let's work on it, let's deal with deal with it And and not and not hold it in because I think That comes back to bite you in the end because then what happens when you start an argument? You bring up something from three years ago like and you bring it up with an inordinate level of passion Yes, you've been brooding on it Exactly. Exactly. That's what you don't want. You know, one of the

things that we used to do, maybe we should go back to doing this, but we, we, like, we, my wife had a vase. I think I'd given her some flowers one year and then we had little slips of paper, like a pen or a pencil next to it. And if I did something that made her angry or I did something she liked or some vice versa, then write it down on the paper and put it in the vase write down the paper put in the vase So what we do like we'd have a mini date night like a Friday night put the kids to bed Okay, and then as we're eating she loves my wife was Thai food. So we have a Thai food and we go into the jar Mm-hmm. So what does that do the anger you felt in that initial moment instead of trying to find a track them down?

And you know, you write that piece of paper you felt in that initial moment instead of trying to find a track them down and you know You write that piece of paper you put in the jar So it diffuses that initial feeling because you know, we're gonna be talking about this. So now we're talking about it It's during dinner. We're having a nice come and we put I wish you wouldn't take so long to fold the laundry kids I walk around with wrinkled clothes You know what? You're right, you know cuz I was I had a homily idea yeah and I had to get it down and I'm thinking okay the law I'm gonna do the laundry and I got so into it I

forgot but you're right I probably should just maybe recorded it on my phone went back and worked on it later and full the laundry but you know I need to do a better job of that next time. Then right we go then positive I really like when you did this or said this you you like that? You're going to get some more of that. Oh yeah? You like that? Watch this? You know? So it's a conversation, it's not a threat. And then we go watch Netflix or movie or something after that, you know? So it's little thing like that where you're dealing with things when they're small before to become cancer in your marriage. Listening. My gosh, that's hard to do.

Yeah. You know, and the other thing is this, um, one thing that affected me was a couple that I did some counseling in the parish for and you know, hearing them go back and forth, I'm like, Oh boy, like a tennis match. So I gave them some advice and then I didn't see them for a while. And I thought, okay okay that's either good or bad either it's working or they've given up. So I ran into the wife once and I said hey how things going? She said not so good. I'm like okay probably get divorced and he said he has cancer. I said what? Said yeah he there was a delivery at the door

And he went to pick up the box and it wasn't that heavy, but he hurt his back And he said oh, he took some ibuprofen. Nothing was working went to the doctor Doctor said something something doesn't feel right here. This is x-rays and MRI Cancer metastasized into his bones stage four already so all The argumentation, everything stopped because it came about saving his life. So all the little things to argue about was gone. And he eventually did die. And I thought to myself watching them through that cancer experience, why don't I treat my spouse as if she had cancer every day?

Yeah. Why don't I treat my spouse as if she had cancer every day? Yeah, that Really? I said why I mean we don't know how much time beat we have left I think it's cuz we're like selfish pricks. That's why I need you to fill me up, you know It's like I need that's why we got married and you start to realize how selfish much of your motivation wasn't getting married married and you start to realize how selfish much of your motivation was in getting married because I Need you to be something for me as opposed to men realizing We're meant to be the initiators of strength and to be the ones that are giving to our our brides Yeah, after I said like am I going to get something for my wife or am I going to give my strength and very often? It's I'm going to get something well policy at st. Corinthians my

He was afflicted with something, and the Lord said to him, my power is made perfect in weakness, because when I'm weak, it's then that I'm strong. But a lot of men think that when they're vulnerable with their wives, that oh, I'm doing a weak, weepy man. No, the two of you are one flesh. Therefore, a man leaves his father and mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh. Not one person, but they become one flesh. And so person, but they become one flesh. And so when you're sharing your heart with, you're sharing with someone that knows you better than your own parents, knows you better than, the only person that knows you better is God.

Right? I sometimes think my wife knows me better than I know me. Yeah. I'm not being funny. Like I really think sometimes she sees things about me that I am completely blind to. Like parts of my back that I've never seen. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like she sees things and I don't realize it. Yeah, exactly. But that comes from that beautiful gift of vulnerability. And for me, it came for the fact that Christ broke Himself open and poured Himself out on the cross. So as

a husband, I have to break myself open and pour myself out for my family. And I think that vulnerability even means doing what I just did there, right? And saying like, I think I'm going to you not to give of my strength, but I often find I'm going to you for comfort. I'm going to you to fix something. I need you to do this with the kids, you know? Like that's an embarrassing thing to admit, especially because if I say, if I admit a way I continue to fail to you and we're in close relationship, I'm

now giving you a way to hurt me. Because the next time you see that, you know that's exactly where you can press. And so I think that's why we're so afraid to be vulnerable, because it means you now know where there's a chink in my armor, as it were. That's precisely what we have to do. And it ends up not, it actually is such a strength. Like you ever meet anybody who's appropriately vulnerable, not in a way to manipulate, not in a way to self-flagellate,

but like an appropriate, there's just such tremendous strength in that. Yeah, beautifully said. And the additional piece with what you just said, Matt, was that I did not want her to talk to other people about our conversations. Not that I'm saying nothing bad to talk to other people about our conversations. Not that I'm saying nothing bad, but those are personal. I'm sharing the deepest parts of who I am with her.

I'm being vulnerable. The last thing I want is all her friends knowing. Right. Because that's not for them, it's for her. So I had to make that clear, because a lot of women like to talk, oh my husband is so great, he's da-da-da-da. But there's certain things that just stay between us again,

not because anything sick or wrong or bad. It's just that, you know, my heart is for you, you know, not for your friends, you know? So, so, and that, I think that was a little bit challenging for her actually, because she is a therapist. Yeah, she's a therapist. And so a therapist and so the whole thing is about talking and you know, and she has a group of, a circle of friends and you know, they talk about what's going on in their lives and their families and stuff, but I said that's fine, but just certain things that just need to stay between us. I had, do you know Dr. Matt Bruninger?

He's a psychologist at the university and he said something to me that I'll never forget. He said, as a therapist, right? I'm sure priests know the same thing. He's like scratch at anybody's life and you'll find rot or shit. Well, however you want to put it, like we can put on the shiny front, but there's always suffering, everybody's suffering. And I think the temptation is to compare our inside to another's outside, whether that's just personally or even like

someone's vocation as a priest or a sister or a marriage. Like, you know very well, like all the stuff you're trying to process and deal with. And then you look at someone from the outside, you have no idea what that person is going through. And I just, I think that's just like, I say that, I guess, so people feel less alone. Like we are all dealing with stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. You're not special because you have problems in your marriage or you yourself are struggling with particular sins you can't overcome. You're just part of the human race and God wants to elevate us. Yeah. But and sometimes you want to put on a front, you know, it's like you see couples going to church or hold each other's hands.

Hey, March. Hey, Jim. Hey, Bill. Hey, you know, Allison Marge, hey Jim, hey Bill, hey Allison, you know, and the other wives are looking, hitting their husbands, why can't we be like that? You know, but they know that their marriage is crap. You know, they're putting on a nice show because they want everybody to see, look at us, look at us, but inside, you know, it's a shit show. But inside, you know, it's a shit show. But that's the thing. The veneer, we have to, because of the strength that comes from Christ, the strength that comes from Christ, we have to remove that veneer and expose that to Jesus.

Because now we're giving permission for God to come in and bring healing into our lives. But we have to remove that shell, that veneer. You know, we have to get our, in a sense, put our pride to the side, get out of our own way and allow God and his merciful love to come into our lives. I didn't expect talk about marriage, but I do want to tell people about Bob Schuetz. He's got a great course called Unveiled. I don't know if you know who Dr. Bob shoots is, but he's got an amazing. They're on YouTube, I think.

I just want to make sure here you can look it up if you want. Thursday, let's see. Unveiled Bob shoots. But one thing he encourages couples to do is, yeah, if you don't mind looking it up, is to pray together. And and so but here's a way I really think couples can actually pray together.

If I because if I said if someone says I don't have time, like this is just well, what about three minutes? You have three minutes. And one way he recommends that my wife and I have been doing lately is I basically I bless my wife. So I hold hands or put my hand on her hand on her shoulder and I bless her in some way. Thank you, Lord, for my good wife, my beautiful friend, my sister in Christ, you know, I just affirm her. And then I I ask God for something for her, you know, like whatever it is.

And then she does the same to me. And then we say the our father, the end. That's it. And then she does the same to me. And then we say the Our Father, the end. That's it. I think the reason couples are unlikely to continue that as a daily practice isn't because they don't want to isn't because they don't have the time. I think it's because we have this preconceived idea of how prayer should feel

or how prayer with my spouse should feel. And it it gets embarrassing when it feels like I'm just kind of saying the same thing or I'm kind of awkward at this. So this is a little embarrassing given how I just snapped at you earlier, that kind of thing. But it's it's been beautiful. And I would encourage all married couples if they want to pray together. As a husband, bless your wife, ask the Lord for something for your wife. She do the same to you, closing the Our Father. Yeah, it's something very simple like that. You know, I know some couples that pray a

rosary together, some deacon couples that pray the office together, the Liturgy of the Hours. Like, wow, that's advanced team right there. You know, but simple is beautiful. You know, as long as you're doing something, you know, making that effort. So there's nothing too small. You know, as long as you're doing something, you know, making that effort. So there's nothing too small. You know, he said one hundred sixty eight hours a week, three minutes a day is not much time. Yeah. You know, but but it's not the quantity. It's the quality of that of that prayer together. So would you let me know if we're getting chats in the stream? Feel free to bring them up, shout them out.

No, no, no. Good. Oh, you mean like. We got one. Oh, sweet, good. Oh, you mean like the general chat? Yeah, even just general chats. I am so sorry. No, no problem. It's so hot in here. It is so hot in here. I want everybody to know that it is so hot in here

and I am in a dark corner. Well, yeah, I guess dark, is dark better? Better than the red light on you. Oh, I'm just like sleeping. Oh, that's true, yeah, dark corner, okay. Oh, I'm just like sleeping. Oh, that's true. Yeah, dark corner, no good. Um. Hey, I want to remind people,

not that this has anything to do with anything that we're doing, but Trent Horn is going to be on this show tonight. Oh yeah, Trent Horn's going to be on Whatever Tonight. Which is a podcast, which I'm not a fan of, but it has a huge following. Yeah, let's get that guy mad again. Can you look into the, look down camera, look down camera one for me and say yeah I felt bad about saying I

think your podcast is awful and I felt so bad that I almost apologized and then I went to his Instagram page and went I don't think this is this person I don't like anything that they're doing I don't like anything that they're doing so not sorry. Thanks. Anyway Trent's gonna be on the podcast tonight debating Destiny which was Matt's content idea for the record I don't know if he said that Matt's that was Matt's content idea Destiny is this very quick Intelligent fella. He is the smartest

Leftist debater and political commentator. So he's gonna be debating Trent Horn on abortion tonight So they're not paying for this advertisement They don't need it because I think think he has like 5 million views subscribers or something stupid like that. It is the worst podcast ever. I hate it. Oh, that's interesting. I thought you liked it and I hated it. No, you were critical of it. But I, I don't like, yeah, I think the, what I did say, this might make people in the chat mad. This is, yeah. Can I say it? Can I say my hot, whatever take? Yeah. All right.

It's a despicable premise and Brian Atlas is a bad person for doing it, but to figure out a way. We've just talked the last two hours about not attacking people and we're like, you son of a, you're boggassed. Where's the compensation? All that being said, this man figured out how to monetize the,

Yeah, he's just. The, like, what's the word that starts with an end that means like being like, um, the, um, narcissism and attention, like thirst for attention that 20 something college women have. Yeah. He's just, and he's making a ton of money and you know, that's a really bad thing for him to do, but it's also kind of, it's like a smart thing. I wouldn't even come up with the thumbnail. Was that the guy on with Lila Rose? They had all the bikini girls, whatever. Okay, I saw part of that on Lila's channel.

Right. So, okay. So if anyone was going to debate this fella on abortion, it would be Trent or Stephanie Gray. Brian is the host. Oh, Stephanie's fantastic. Brian is the host, not Destiny. Destiny will be the guy opposing. To make it clear, sure.

Yeah, anyway, Kyle has to watch it. Kyle is Trent's assistant, which means, and Kyle's in my house tonight, which means I'll probably be watching it, which means- What are you doing at 10 PM, Deacon? You want to come over, get some popcorn? I'm gonna be sleeping at your house. Why are we even bringing this up? Why are we talking about this? Oh, I want to just tell people to watch it. Yeah, I want to tell over, get some popcorn? Watch a debate. Why are we even bringing this up?

Why are we talking about this? I want to tell people to watch it. Yeah, I want to tell people to watch it. And you want to tell people to watch it. And then Saturday, Trent will be in studio and we'll break it down. Yeah. I'll get the crumbs. So you do have to watch it.

From the table. You don't have to watch it tonight live, but you have to watch it. What was the question? Okay. We have three chats though. Yeah. I've been thinking about the Jesus prayer and would love to start making it a habit, but I'm not sure if that is compatible with me being committed to staying in the Western

liturgy. Any thoughts? Yeah, here's my thoughts. If you think that saying Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me is not compatible with you being a Western Catholic, you are wrong, sir. And so I would say there is nothing wrong with learning from different traditions. Even within the West, different religious orders

have different devotions. In the West, there's a cornucopia of different devotions, like the Carmelites, the Franciscan Rosary, that sort of thing. I think you should choose what resonates with you and try to be faithful to that thing without worrying that this is overly Eastern. What do you think?

No, well said. All right. Well said. Next question. Are you related to Dan or Jordan Burke? No, no, the Burke comes from my wife's side of the family. I don't think she's related to them. So so what happened was my hyphenated name, by the way.

So I'm Harold Sivers, the same name as my dad. And when I was 20, my junior year in college, you know the credit bureaus came out and said hey get a free credit report. You know back then it was the internet and all that so they printed it out. And so I had all of these negative things. I'm like I'm only 20 years old. I've never had a credit card. What is this? Well, I said, well, it looks like a divorce. I'm like, that's my dad. So, oh, you have the same name as your dad.

So your dad's credit card was showing up on yours. I'm like, ooh, that's not good. So they were able to get it off. So I said, well, when I got married, let me add my wife's name, because there's one thing where you're 20, you don't have credit. It's another thing where you're trying to buy a car

or a house and that comes up again. So I decided to add my wife's name, which was interesting when I went to change my driver's license, you're married. So my wife came and did it, not a problem. But if I do it as a problem, oh yeah, we're just not used to guys. So that's, you know. Okay, that's the story. You know, yeah, so that's uh, you know, okay

That's the story. All right. Next question if we have anything last one. I'll Kyle By the way, Kyle is this Kyle Whittington? Yeah, my friend Kyle He works with Trent Horn Kyle said one of the funniest things I've ever heard someone say the other day My friend John Henry asked him what's your most unpopular opinion? He said that Kyle is an unsuitable name for a man and his name is Kyle popular opinion. He said that Kyle is an unsuitable name for a man and his name is Kyle. He's just fun. It's an yeah, it's an honor. He unironically thinks it's an unsuitable name and an appropriate name to give a boy. Um, all right. Anyway, I'm at there. Okay. Yes. What's his question? He can. A priest friend once told me that a penchant for grilling

meats and a love of theology is an early sign of the permit to react. How are your grilling skills? Not that great. I'm not, I'm not much of a, of a griller, although, um, uh, a good friend of mine, uh, one of the podcasts, I have several podcasts. Uh, one of them is called living stones with Ken Helanious. Ken is the, uh, direct communications director for the D. Nicholas Center for Ethics and Culture at Notre Dame and he has something called meeting Fridays so the Fridays in Easter because Friday is a solemnity in the octave of Easter and

you can eat meat on Friday so it's a meeting Friday it's like a meat fest you know so but my grilling skills aren't all that great. What about cast iron? Good with cast iron? No, my son's the one that's a cook, not me. Oh, OK. You know, but I mean, I got I haven't really cooked in quite a while, but I used to have a few skills, but and my son does love the cast iron, though. So Sly Guy has a question. He says, how have you found navigating conversations with your

non-Catholic family? I don't know if you have non-Catholic family, when it comes to divisive conversations about the church? And then he says, I was just cleared for confirmation. Praise God. Oh, wonderful. Congratulations. Yeah. So, yeah, I do have a couple of family members, siblings who are not practicing the faith, and we do have conversations, and there are conversations. I'm mostly just clarifying things. It's not angry, divisive, because searching, and they're hearing things about what the

church says about this, and how could the Pope be infallible when he says this? I'm like, oh, hold on a minute, here's what this means, you know? That kind of thing. And they really are, they really are conversations. The difficult ones would be families I talk to where their kids aren't practicing the faith, and they're trying to have conversations with their own children. You know, the grandkids aren't baptized and they're away from the church, and those are the really difficult conversations to have. I know for me, because my family, my extended family, let's say, without pinpointing anybody, are Protestant Christians.

And I think sometimes a good question to ask is, would this be not just unproductive but even counterproductive to bring something up at a certain point? I think sometimes we have this sort of moral certainty that, to give an obvious example, if we're around the Thanksgiving dinner table and I decide to bring up, you know, why they why they have less by less books in the Bible than they should, it's probably uncounted productive. And so sometimes prudence calls us to hold our tongue and to be prayerful and to also also.

Yeah. What's up? Okay. Wow. And then also to kind of appreciate what's true true good and beautiful and other traditions, you know Yeah, exactly. All right, what happened? Just read the chat. Well, there's so many no the the second of her one The second what's his name? creation

Who creation can I read it out loud Croatian? No creation. Oh, I Don't know what you want to do with that, but I wanted to let you know that's there because you might want to do something with that. I Don't understand. What's an MFT? Yeah, okay, okay, all right damn you Thursday Oh Okay, yeah, you got anyway, sorry about that. He thought someone else was saying something. Okay. All right but yeah, so Here's something so I just got back from

Australia and you're going in December and I'm bringing some speakers from Australia to the US in September First time ever. What does that mean bringing? So you know I've been there eight times now to Australia. Yeah. And I said you know I've been meeting some incredible speakers in evangelists in Australia. I said why don't we bring them here? So I'm working to bring Charbel. Yeah. What a guy. Yeah, fantastic. Love Charbel. I spent most of my time with him this past few weeks. And Robert Haddad.

Yes. Yes, Robert is like the Tim Staples of Australia, phenomenal apologist and church historian. And Kevin Bailey, who's a very successful, kind of high net worth guy, and he's gonna talk about from success to significance. He's doing some great stuff, great work for the church right now.

So where are they gonna speak? So we're gonna do Phoenix first, and then Orange County, then San Diego. They're gonna be attending the Catholic Answers Conference of San Diego as a guest as guests of Catholic answers So we're gonna I have my former spiritual director is in San Diego now So we're gonna I'm gonna try to get connect with him and then we're gonna go to St. Louis Kansas City and Dallas nice. Yeah, and so if anybody wants to help sponsor, you know

Nice. Yeah, and so if anybody wants to help sponsor, you know So yeah, so so just go to my website digging her out comm and so what I'm doing is I'm not speaking I'm Facilitating, you know, I'm gonna be the MC and I'm because I'm coordinating to travel and all the arrangements But we're looking for sponsor. We're not gonna charge the parishes, you know, because we want to A lot of people won't know who these guys are. Is this what you have here? No, no, this is what I have. So, a lot of people won't know who these guys are. Yeah. And the little, speaking to it, we're going to have is called the Wake Not Woke. And so, Sharbell is going to talk about his conversion story from Islam, which he talked about at length on pints. And then Robert Haddad is going to talk about the Eucharist,

because he knows that the bishops in the United States have been emphasizing for three years on the Eucharist. So he's going to talk about the Blessed Sacrament and the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. And then as I mentioned, Kevin's going to talk about from success to significance. You know how he found true meaning not with the money but in pursuing the wealth that comes from a deep intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. So, I'm so excited about these things. I appreciate you bringing Moralzies over. Yeah, these guys are great and people are going to really enjoy them.

But again, you know, it costs money to have these guys come, so if any sponsors out there, you know, if you want to help, and what I'll do is, you know, if you want to put banners up or you want me to make announcements about your apostolate whatever yeah, happy to do that for you So okay deacon harold.com. You know who you should pray to Yes That's right. Yeah, amen. So that's happening and One of the podcasts I have is called the prodigal life, you know, I've been doing that for a couple years now, okay That's what Nick deatorre from Awaken Catholic and Helen Holmes, Steve LeBlanc.

The three of us co-host this podcast together. We just talk about real stuff like roll up your sleeves, get in the dirt like stuff, you know, about really connecting more deeply your faith to the everyday lived experience so we've had guests on yeah and stuff and then we have we have our own things that we talked about as well as was really wonderful really enjoyable we got to wrap up here but I want to know about why you were demonetized oh well I just got an email from YouTube and said I was demonetized because my content was, they thought my content was harmful to the community. What?

What are you talking? And I'm uploading pilgrimage videos. I'm not using the N word like you did earlier. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, nothing like that. All right. So let's see. What is your YouTube channel? It's just the Deacon. It's tagged in's tagged in the yeah. Yeah. So I mean, oh, I see I'm uploading

pilgrimage videos, homilies, you know, and I'm usually connecting. Like if someone has a link of me, I just connect instead of uploading the video, it's already, I just connect the link to my stream and stuff like that. I have some idea. I mean, I'm not afraid to talk about difficult issues with love and compassion, but maybe they don't like that. That's wild. Were you saying that? I mean, I was, it wasn't, it's not a-

Were you saying the word that you're not supposed to say? I just asked that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not that word? Okay. No, because you get a warning. You think you get a warning for something like that. You get no warning?

No. Isn't that hard to believe? How do I have 395,000 subscribers, That word okay, no because you get a warning guy you think it'd be a warning for something like that no Is that hard to believe how do I have? 395,000 subscribers given all we don't have 395,000 subscribers Yeah I have three hundred and seventy six thousand subscribers and I buys twenty thousand box How is it that we haven't been demonetized? And I guess we have to watch this. This makes me want to watch your content now.

Plus, the thing is, I mean, I don't really, it wasn't, I don't have that many followers. I'm not trying to grow my channel. I'm just trying to be faithful to the gospel. And however many followers I have on these platforms, that's how many I have. I mean, I'm not going to change anything I do to, I mean, that's not's not a source of income for me, you know, but it's just a way of getting out there and you know, and plus I'm under ecclesiastical oversight from my bishop, so that means basically anything that's written about me, I put it out there so you know, so they can kind of keep tabs on what I'm doing. And I meet

with my bishop once a year just to make sure my head's on straight that kind of thing so well you're looking forward to this conference coming up I am you glad to be yeah I'm glad you back is commit my this is the most conference ever spoken in one year is to move I'm excited and yeah very much looking forward to it yeah absolutely well thanks me on the Oh, thanks for having me back, man. Like I said, last time I was here, after people would say, oh, I saw you on Pice with the Quines. One of the funniest ones was when I went

to renew my global entry. You have to do it every five years. You have to do a face-to-face interview. Well, the closest is in Seattle. So I flew to Seattle from Portland just a 20 minute flight. Yeah. You know I went to the, made my appointment, went in. I'm sitting there with the guy you know he got my hand on the scanner he's checking on stuff he goes uh looks at me goes you on YouTube? I'm like well yeah but you probably don't

know I'm not really that much of an influencer or anything. He goes we're on Pice with Aquinas? I'm like that's what? Wild isn't it? I like the guy, the TSA guy doing my background check security clearances. Yeah. Watch Spice. We go, oh, yeah, I saw you on it. It was really cool. I swear I'm going to get that stack of

one hundred dollar bills and going to take one off every one of these things. Yeah, because I saw you on there. It was really great. Mike, I'm just close. That what it is. He was telling a very affirming story about points for the startantas. Start again.

So you went to this thing. Yeah, I know. So the guy was like, oh, yeah, I saw you on Pines for the Qantas. Like, whoa. That's amazing. You know, the reach, like I said, these are the countries I've been to. It's funny, as much as we criticize YouTube for being like a woke hellscape, I'm so grateful for the reach that it enables us to have.

I had Dr. Mary Healy on the show. And she emailed me three days later and she said, I've been doing interviews for 25 years or something. It's like, I've never seen anything like this. I was street preaching in Budapest. People came up and said they saw it. It's right. It's wild. So hi to everybody in Papua New Guinea. Uh, we're so grateful that you watch the show. Please be,

please be a faithful Catholic. Keep being good. Yeah. Love Jesus. Be bold. We need you. Yeah. Thanks, Thursday. Yeah. So do you even have a mic? He's sorry, everybody.

He's sorry. The mic went backwards and the clamp just gave out. And the clamp just gave out. And the clamp just gave out. It's like I hear you. God bless y'all. Thanks, mate. Thank you.