Pints With Aquinas - From Buddhism to Christianity (Laura Le) | Ep. 584

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Laura Le is here to share her journey from devout Buddhist and near-total despair to her conversion to Catholicism and her growing YouTube channel. Ep. 584 Theotokos Rosaries: https://dwplus.shop/TheotokosRosaries - - - 📚 Resources Mentioned: Laura Le on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Lebelauved A Pocket Guide to the Rosary by Matt Fradd: https://a.co/d/0dm4DdgT - - - Today’s Sponsors: Seven Weeks Coffee: Save up to 25% with promo code 'PINTS' at https://sevenweekscoffee.com/PINTS  St. Paul Center: Start your 30-day free trial today at https://StPaulCenter.com/pints Hallow: Deepen your personal relationship with God today. Visit https://hallow.com/MattFradd to get 3 months free.  Catholic Match: Download the CatholicMatch app on the Apple App Store or Google Play Store— it’s free to sign up and only takes five minutes. Or go to CatholicMatch.com to get started.  Charity Mobile: Visit https://charitymobile.com/MATTFRADD to get started. Free Phone offer with code MATTFRADD  Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today at SHOPIFY.COM/pints - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠ 📲 Download the free Daily Wire app today on iPhone, Android, Roku, Apple TV, Samsung, and more. - - - 📕 Get my newest book, Jesus Our Refuge, here: https://a.co/d/bDU0xLb 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mattfradd.locals.com/support⁠⁠⁠⁠ - - - 💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas⁠⁠⁠ 🎵 TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas⁠⁠⁠ 📚 PWA Merch – ⁠⁠⁠https://dwplus.shop/MattFraddMerch⁠⁠ 👕 Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com - - - Privacy Policy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/privacy⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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at least in the West at some point. A lot of people are like, oh, that's cool. Like, should I get into it more? We believed in reincarnation and also getting rid of one's desires. You would have to build up karma for hundreds if not thousands of years of lifetimes. I was someone else in my last life

and I built enough karma to where I am now a human being. You have to be like really, really, really good to become human. If I had a said to you, does God exist? What would you have to say? I would have said no. I don't know who you're talking about. It's like, why is there a man nailed to a cross? I had never seen that depiction before. He's, like, kind of naked. You know, Jesus or Lord, he had nails in his hands, and it's huge, and it's just where everyone could see.

I had to ask, I was like, who's Jesus? I said I was interested. Oh, in becoming a nun? Yeah. Because I actually loved Buddhism. Maybe this is my calling. My mom was like, hey, my Buddhist nun friend wants to take you to this retreat. The last day we were together, she just said, hey, there's this ritual that I would like for you to go through.

You belong to Buddha. All of these, like, alarming thoughts were going off in my head. It's like, don't do this. You belong to God. You need to become Catholic now. Do you think we've got enough drinking vessels? Oh, yes, definitely. This is more than I think my stomach could handle.

What do you have there? I've got coffee. Good. You made me a cappuccino. Come me a cogs. Come on. And I got some water. What you got?

Cappuccino and sparkling water. Laura Lee, it's lovely to have you on. Thank you. We're going to talk about your conversion from Buddhism to Catholicism. You know, who told me about you? You know who it was? Sips with Sarah. No way.

Adrian, right? Yes. I mentioned me. Yeah, I think so. Yes, I'm positive he did. Yeah, and I checked out your YouTube channel. I thought it was great and I'm just really pumped to talk to you. How long have you been a Catholic?

Well, I got baptized and I entered the church in 2018. Cool. So it's been a while now, yeah. That's so awesome, though, because he actually just messaged me. He's like, are you going on Pines? I was like, how'd you know? I was like, am I making it obvious or something? I did take a photo of me kind of like traveling, but I didn't say where I was going.

Oh, fine. Yeah. Yeah, Adrian is such a good man. There are a lot of really excellent YouTubers, not just excellent in their production level, but just like decent people who don't spend all their time attacking everybody else. He's one of them. Yes, no, it's great. I haven't talked to him recently, but he is one of the few people, I think, who are really doing the Lord's work, who's spreading the gospel. And he kind of gave me like a head start. He kind of introduced my channel to his viewers, so I'm

very grateful to him. Cool. All right. I got to be honest, I think everyone is attracted to Buddhism, at least in the West at some point, especially those who aren't religiously affiliated. I think for me when I was about 16, like Buddhism just seemed so cool. It seemed cool because there were like prayer beads and cool-looking monks. And this is, I think, my honest reason

why a lot of people are attracted to Buddhism is at least on the face of it, it doesn't seem like anyone's talking about sexual morality. I'm not saying they don't have, you can tell me, but I think that's why I was attracted to it. I wanted the spirituality and the meditation and the prayer experiences, but I didn't want Jesus and I didn't want heaven. I didn't want any of the church language.

That was me growing up. Oh, okay. Yeah. But you grew up Buddhist, so what was that like? Yeah. So I didn't know it was popular amongst people in the West that they were attracted to Buddhism because I grew up with that. The thing was I didn't know anything about Christianity. But my parents came over here from Vietnam when they were very young.

They were like teenagers, at least my dad was. And it's pretty prominent in Vietnam to practice Buddhism. So my mom is a devout Buddhist. She's my entire family, they're still Buddhist, by the way. I'm the only one who converted. But she just kind of brought me up into it. We have a bunch of Buddhist statues in our home. So there wasn't a time where I don't remember having it.

We had a huge shrine. We still have it in my house right now, actually. A huge what? A shrine. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, it's like taller than a person. It's at least like eight, nine feet tall.

Could you please send me a photo of this? Oh, of course. Yeah, wow, that's good. So your whole life, have you had this giant shrine? Yes, I remembered it since I was little. And I remember the head of it even broke before. When we were moving, it dropped on the ground and it broke. And my parents were trying to super glue it together.

And I'm like, gosh, we still have this thing. I just wish we would get rid of it because I was actually terrified of it. But we went to temple almost every week, I think. We had, what do you call it, a monastic ritual where we would offer up fruits, we would offer up sacrifices. We would kind of ask our ancestors to watch over us. And we would have prayers in the morning and the afternoon at night and we would do it as a family. So that was just something very normal to me. And just I never knew anything about Jesus Christ.

Yeah. So did your parents were they kind of, what would you say, nominal? Buddhist or was there something that they had intellectually brought into or was it more cultural? I think it's definitely more cultural, at least with Vietnamese Buddhism. I looked into it a bit myself. It's kind of like a combination of a bunch of folklore in Asia. So there's some Chinese tradition in there. There's even some Christianity in there. And then forms of Hinduism and Buddhism, there's Zen Buddhism, and then there's Tibetan Buddhism. So it's a little bit of, everything. So it's not really one thing. It was like a, you know, I even, yeah, I even had

people online telling me like, you weren't a real Buddhist. I was like, oh, I guess my whole life was alive then. That's fine with me. You know, I found Jesus. So it worked out. It's so funny how we do that. It's like the no true Scotsman fallacy. That would happen with anybody, by the way, right? But if I came out tomorrow and said I was becoming a Mormon, I would be probably told you were never a real Catholic at some level. And same thing with everyone. I think it's just our way of coping when someone leaves the team. Yeah. That's interesting.

So Singapore Buddhism is its own flavor to say if you were practicing Buddhism in China or... I think so because, you know, I am in a community where I am brought up with other Buddhists. Buddhist and they tell me what they grew up with and what they know. And it's all different. None of them are the same. So I'm just seeing that there's even, I guess you could call it, like their own sex of Buddhism with each type of Asian, even within the Vietnamese community too. It's all different. Did you, I mean, I'm just comparing it to my own life. Like I was made to do things, right? I was made to go to church every week. And I complained all the time. And then as I got a little older, I started asking, why do we do this? Why do bad things happen to good? people. How do we know God exists? Did you go through anything like that in the Buddhist context? Yeah. I mean, that was a big reason why I think I was so open to Catholicism. Because in Buddhism, instead of salvation, you know, putting it into, putting our trust into Jesus Christ that he is the one who will bring a salvation. We believed in reincarnation and also

getting rid of one's desires, you know, it's about going more into one's self. And you would have to, in a way it's like karma, you would have to build up karma for hundreds of not thousands of years of lifetimes, not even during this life, to reach this state of nirvana or, what do you call it? I only know in Vietnamese, I don't know it in English, yeah, but it's like you reach this place called Teufun Kuklak. It's where for us we have multiple Buddhas. Like you, in the same way we have saints where you become a saint and you go to heaven, you would become like a Buddha and you would reach that state. And I was like, okay, well, I'm not going to remember my last life, my next life, all of this. So what's the point of this life? Why do I have to suffer so much if that's

just what's going to happen to me if I'm just going to reincarnate into like a bug? So that was my question. I was like, okay, they're still suffering. You know, Buddhism, we have meditation. and we have all of these moral teachings that I think also can align with Christianity. I was like, but this doesn't answer any of my questions. Yeah. So I am really excited to tell you that I have partnered with Theotokos Rosaries. These are, without a doubt, the most beautiful rosaries I have ever seen in my life. If you're looking for a beautiful rosary that's also like an heirloom, something that you could have for life,

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Just the reincarnation idea. Did you just accept that? Yeah, that seems right? Or did you have a question it? I loved my parents. I really, really looked up to them. So I believed everything they said. Yeah, good.

I totally. That makes sense. Yeah. Thank goodness. But I believed in reincarnation. I was like, okay, so I was someone else in my last life. And I built enough karma to where I am now a human being. You have to be like really, really, really good to become human.

But they say, if you build. if you build up better merit and better karma, you come back as a human man instead of human woman. So mine wasn't like that good. I was like, okay. It wasn't good enough, but. Maybe next time, yeah. Yeah, I was like next time.

But I believe that. I didn't have a concept of heaven or hell. There was no such thing as that growing up. But the more, you know, I had that reality, the more depressed I got. So I did believe it, but it did make me depressed. So what kind of moral laws were you asked to abide by? It's very similar, I think, to Christianity is just don't kill, don't steal, don't commit adultery, things like that.

And always to give thanksgiving, give back to the people who are less fortunate than you. So I did learn these things growing up. So I think that made me into a decent human being because of the teachings of Buddhism. Because you're taught to be good. They teach you what's good and what's evil. But what was the question again? Yeah, just like, I don't know, like the moral system that you were invited into. And then, I don't know, what's it like within Buddhism?

Are you looking at other people who seem particularly good and thinking, she's going to be a man next time? I'm not meaning to make fun of it. You know what I mean? But like, is there a sense in which you can look at people in this life as enlightened and suspect what their future life might look like? Is that the kind of things you would think about as a kid or no? No, really, because I kind of look at.

that everyone the same. You know, I hung out with a lot of Buddhist nuns and even Buddhist monks. And they lived by the book of Buddhism, at least where they were at temple, what they had to do. So they had to do their offerings daily. They were purely vegetarian. They had to do chores throughout the day. That was part of the practice to do regular daily things. And I was like, okay, well, I do these things. My parents do these things. It's just we're not monks and nuns. There wasn't a gauge or a good measurement to figure out how are we going to be in the next life. And then my mom, she told me, she's like, well, whatever you do here, it's probably not going to be much.

You're probably going to be reborn for a thousand more years. So then I was like, everything we do is pretty much pointless and useless. So I didn't see anyone who did more or less if we were going anywhere. I just thought, okay, this is just an endless cycle. She had told me reaching that state of enlightenment of being a Buddha is actually really rare. And it just might not happen for another hundreds or thousands of years. I have so many questions. Tell me about Buddhist monks and nuns.

Are they celibate? Do they live in communities? Are there different types of monks and nuns? Yeah. So what I grew up with, they do live in communities. The men and the women are separated. It's very similar to what we have with priests and monks and nuns and sisters with Catholicism. And they are celibate.

And for them, they do have to take a vow where they have to leave everything behind and live a life of poverty to live with their, you could say, their brothers and sisters. And they're very normal people, though, because I did live with a few Buddhist nuns for a little bit. And they loved music and they love dancing, but they weren't allowed to indulge. in these things. They had to do it secretly. You know, even though they took these vows, they still did things behind the scenes. And because I wasn't fully, um, I guess, committed to it. I still had my hair. A lot of them didn't like that. I had my hair still. They have to shave off all their hair, both the men and the women. So what are the women nuns look like? Because I have this rough idea, which might be some racist stereotype. It's like some bad kung fu movie. I mean, I've seen

kind of like Buddhist monks around. They look really cool in the orange thing. Yeah. Okay. Good. So what are the nuns look like to look like that as well? They do, yeah. So there's, I think in their daily where they have a gray kind of bluish robe. And then when they start the prayers, they have mantras that they do daily. It's called like Mahayana mantras. And it's just like a repetitive thing over and over. And that's when they wear the gold or like yellow outfit that you do see in movies.

It's pretty accurate. And yeah, and they're all bald. They all have to shave their hair. So why did they want you to shave your hair? Oh, to show that I was fully committed because I said I was interested. Oh, in becoming a nun? Yeah. Oh, okay.

Yeah, my mom had actually put me into contact with a lot of these Buddhist nuns because this was a period in my time where I was really depressed. She didn't know what to do. So she reached out to them. She's like, hey, I want you to like take in my daughter. So they're like, okay, well, I was like, yeah, I'd love to practice this because I actually loved Buddhism. I loved being around it and practicing it. So I was like, maybe this is my calling. Like, maybe I should do this.

And part of that is when you are in discipleship with that, what they actually do is they let you keep some part of your hair and you get to shave the rest of it. So you even look goofier. And I was like, am I going to do that? But I didn't want to do that. I was so young. I was maybe like 13 years old.

This was a long time ago. And are there some 13-year-old girls walking around? Yes. Okay. I don't know. about here in the West, but definitely in Asia that's a practice that they do over there. Yeah. Yeah. And so the men live in their own monastery and the women in their own? Yes. Or if it's at the, I guess the same temple, they have different buildings for men and women. What would someone, why would someone feel called to become a Buddhist nun? What would they say if you ask them? Well, I think, because this happened with both my mother and I. She was thinking of leaving our family to become a Buddhist nun. And, and she was thinking of leaving her family to become a Buddhist nun. And one, there were a lot of issues in our family with her marriage, my parents' marriage. And she just kind of dived deeper into Buddhism with her prayers, with her lifestyle.

She became a full vegetarian. And I would just always see her praying for hours in the morning throughout the day. Or she would leave home to go to temple. And I guess whatever she was receiving over there, the advice she was getting, she's like, you know, I think I would do better for the world and for the life if I leave home and I offer up my prayers, my time, and I live this life because we believe also it's like as we pray and meditate, we're giving back to the world in a way. It's like how we pray and we offer up graces from the Lord in the same way we have that same mindset. And I think people also, at least for me, you get tired of your life. You're seeking out peace in some way and being in a

temple in the middle of nowhere, there's no other responsibility except to, you know. Don't tempt me. Yeah. So, yeah, it's very tempting. So I was like, maybe this is what it is. I don't feel like getting a job or going to school. In a way, I think it was me just running away from my problem. Sure.

I think that's a lot of people who go into Buddhism as well. Or maybe they do find something really beautiful in that life. Yeah. It's fair. Like, I'm just trying to compare all of this to my own journey. That's how I understand things. I remember discerning the priesthood. And looking back, I think it was because I was just terrible.

a fight of being a bad father and a bad husband. So in a sense, there was a running away there as well. So glad I didn't choose the priesthood because I was running away. What did you read? Forgive my ignorance. But as a Buddhist, what were your sacred texts and how would you read them? Okay. So we had these books and they had the mantras in there. And it was all in Vietnamese. And it just looked like a bunch of gibberish to me. So I could. read it, but I didn't know what I was saying. And we would say this for like an hour, two hours straight, like nonstop. Okay, back up. So your mom or dad, like how would they, how would they get you to do this? Were you at your house? Were you at temple? So at home, we would just

say the Buddha's names that we were asking to grant us, I guess, graces. So we had, there's specific names for, kind of like we have saint patrons for things like mental health, work, school. So we would just say the Buddha's name over and over and over at home. And we would do that for like 30 minutes. Like a specific Buddha associated with a specific thing? Yes. Okay. So that's what we would do at home. But when we were at temple, that's when we would have this journal. Yeah. And there's a group of people doing it. So my mom, she would just ask me to do it and I would go along with it. But when I was in discipleship with these Buddhist nuns, they would make me do the opening. So like at 5 a.m., I take out the book. There's like a wooden block that I would go. And I would, I would kind of knock at to keep tempo so we could just keep going at it. And we would do that for like an hour or two hours straight. And I had no idea what I was saying. So I asked them. I was like, what does it mean?

They're like, I don't know either. Don't ask questions. Yeah. I was like, okay. Yeah. So you were a disciple in some sense. You said, yeah. So do you have to like apply or be accepted or invited?

How does that work? No, I just ask them. I was like, um, like can I live with you guys? practice what you do. They're like, yeah. And the one where I went to, they didn't really have a lot of Buddhist nuns. There was just, there's like a mother ahead one. And then she had one disciple. And you? Yeah. And then there was me. So it worked out. But they would bring me to other temples and there were much more women there. And how old were you? I was 13. So you left home at 13 to go to live with them? Yeah. It was a very short period of time. But what would happen, my mom would end up introducing

me to other Buddhist nuns and then I would go on a trip with them. I would stay with them. And this just kind of kept going on. I was just everywhere with them. Yeah. At what point did you decide you didn't want to do that? Oh gosh. So I think I might have been like 18 or 19. I went to the mountains in Albuquerque with a different Buddhist nun. And she's like, okay, we're going to go on this pilgrimage. We're going to go to this temple in the middle of the mountains. You're going to cook for these nuns. You're going to pray and we're going to sit in silence. It was like a silent retreat.

And at this time, I was already diving more into Catholicism, actually. I had already been introduced, but I didn't want to be Catholic. Yeah. I was like, I'm already so devoted to what I know, what I'm comfortable with. And you can't prove to me that this isn't true. Right. I hadn't come into my mind yet. But at the same time, I was going to Mass too.

Come on. All right. I want to bracket, if you don't mind. Bracket the Catholic bit for a second. Okay. I still want to spend some time in the, I can't wait to learn how you were introduced to Catholicism. But, okay, that's wild. Did you have a lot of Buddhist friends, or were you in sec?

Did you have a lot of secular friends who thought that what you were doing was weird? So I had a lot of secular friends. I wouldn't say I had any friends who were practicing Buddhism or even Catholicism. I just had friends where we would, we would hang out. And at the time, I didn't really. do much. I was such a home body. I don't remember doing much, actually. I think I was just home depressed at the time. Yeah. Yeah. But I think there were like a few instances where I was able to go outside. I think I was just busy with part-time work. And I had moved to a different city at this time

when I was a teenager. So in between that time when I was like 13 and 18, I met some some other people, some young people. And we were just a bunch of hoodlums and delinquents. So that was. when I was introduced to like drinking for the first time and even like smoking marijuana and getting high and doing acid. So that was how I spent my time with friends. Okay. So when were you at your like peak orthodox Buddhist stage? When were you like, I love it. This is my thing. This is what I believe. How old were you? So I think I was like hardcore Buddhist from 13 to. I think it's 18 or 19. So my question is, if I had have met you when you were 15 and I had said, what is Buddhism?

Can you teach me? Like, what would you have said to me? What do you believe? Oh, I would be so into it. Do it. Let's pretend. I was like, oh, so it's been such a long time. But I would have said like, yeah, we are all called to be enlightened.

We have someone who's Buddha, his name's Sadaatha, a long time. time ago he was a prince and he lived a very lavish life but as he left his palace and he had a family he had a wife and everything he saw different stages of life he saw someone being born he saw someone getting old he saw someone getting sick and he saw someone die and then that's when he started questioning the meaning of life and the cycle of life and he wanted to escape that suffering so he believed he needed to go seek refuge alone in solitude so he left everything he had money He had prestige. He had a family, and he left it all to go figure that out. And he was sitting in a forest, and this is when he started meditating. He started closing himself off to all of the worldly desires, like hunger, comfort. It was kind of like mind over matter, right? And eventually all these temptations, as he was really weak, came to him, and he was able to conquer it through deep meditation and deep prayer. And he understood he doesn't need any of these things. and that's something that we can have too.

We can have inner peace through meditation, through the teachings of Buddha. And I think that's how I would approach someone. I thought that sounded pretty sane at the time. Sounds great to me. If I had to said to you, does God exist? What would you have said? I would have said no.

I don't know who you're talking about. Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting. If I had have said, I like to party. I like, you know, hooking up with my girlfriend. Is that okay? what would you have said?

I would have said no. Okay. Yeah, I'd be like, that's not part of the teaching. Okay. Yeah. So what is the sexual morality in your version of Buddhism? It's the same where you would have to be committed to your husband and your wife. You know, I didn't really learn anything about divorce or I know affairs were looked down upon.

There's no such thing as cheating. What about sex before marriage? Yeah, that wasn't allowed either. It's very traditional. I think and conservative. See, I think what a lot of Westerners get is like a California hippie interpretation of Buddhism that they want to be true. I don't know. And so I just think the kind of Buddhism I was introduced to when I was 15 and I was like,

looking for something spiritual, but didn't want anything demanded of me was that kind of California Buddhism where all of the, don't do that was kind of. So it's cool to know that Buddhists aren't raging hedoners. But it's a joke, but it's also true. So are there, did you meet different Buddhists who had different views of Buddhism? No, I was pretty, I was surrounded by the same mindset, I think. And it was mostly just Vietnamese people. So we pretty much practiced similar things. But it never went deeper than what I learned and what I practiced.

If anything, they were learning a lot from me every time I came across another Buddhist. Did you read the works of Buddha, his writings? No, I didn't. It's just my mom, she taught me about Sadartha, which is the most popular Buddha. Is he the first Buddha? That's what people believe. See, there's no like understanding of the origin of it all. Interesting. And for Vietnamese Buddhists, we have a lady Buddha that we really look up to. Her name is Faguanam. Or I think for, I guess, English speakers, they say Guan Yin.

She looks a lot like our lady. Oh, I'm glad she doesn't look. like the Buddha, I imagine. Yeah, no, she has a veil. She just looks serene, except there's different depictions of her. So we actually go to Siddhartha and Guanian a lot, Akwanam. And what's the story of the lady? Is there one?

So apparently, so, yeah, everything I had learned, it wasn't through books. My mom would tell me all these things. And back then, I didn't really use YouTube or anything. And I'm a terrible reader. I'll be honest. Like, I loved reading comic books. I just couldn't read books. I have such a short attention span.

But I asked her and she said, yes, Buddhas are people, are people. And eventually they had reached that enlightenment. So Fakuanam, she was a regular woman and she went through many lifetimes, many merits, many karma. Eventually she reached enlightenment. And now what she does is she helps people in need. There are a lot of stories where she'll appear on the ocean where someone is abandoned in the middle of the ocean. and she'll help them or people who are hungry. She's always depicted with kind of holding like a little olive leaf or something

and she has a vase in one hand with water pouring out. She's on top of a lotus. Or sometimes she's depicted with several arms and it's supposed to symbolize that she can do everything and be everywhere at once. Is she Vietnamese? She looks pretty Vietnamese from what I grew up with. All right, cool. Okay, when you were meditating and saying that,

these mantras, what was the point? Because I think if you would ask a Christian, like, why are you praying? They might say any number of things. They might say I'm giving adoration to God, or I'm repenting of my sins, or I'm requesting that he grant me certain things. What was the point of your meditation? Yeah, so I was asking that when I was really young. And the Buddhist nuns at the time were telling me it's just these prayers that we say to Buddha. And they never really expanded more on that so I didn't understand but they said it's more to be in a meditative state I was like hey what's the purpose of that as well they didn't explain that further either was it to find peace or something they couldn't even explain that it was just because this was a

cultural practice this is something that had been happening I think since Buddhism was introduced in Vietnam so they didn't even question it either and when I had asked questions they were like don't worry about it you just have to do it so I went a lot of with it. They never explained. All right, fair enough. But then what was the benefit of it? Because I could imagine you saying to somebody, why do we do this? And they go, we just do. But if you would say to someone, but you're, you know, you're choosing to do it. So I would imagine someone might say, like, I'm afraid of punishment or I'm afraid of becoming a snail in the next life. But they also might say, like, this is how I find peace. Like, did you have any physiological

response to how you were praying that put you in a calm state? Or? Yeah. I think it was for that disoble. to not be so distracted from everything and to just focus on one thing. So it is supposed to grant peace. But actually the opposite had happened to me. I had absolutely no peace from doing that stuff. Yeah. So why were you doing it?

Well, that's all I knew, right? So I was like, okay, I'm going to follow these rules. I'm going to do what they're all doing. Like eventually I'll get it. Yeah, eventually. I was like, maybe I'll understand it. Because my mom and the Buddhist nuns, like, the more you do it, the more you will heal the more you will find peace because they were trying to help me with my afflictions with

like my mental issues and my emotional state i was like okay so i'm gonna keep doing it they're like when you're scared pray when you're having a nightmare pray just do it so it became like second nature to me even in my dreams if i had a nightmare i would just start praying um but the more i did it the more anxious actually became and i i remember throughout all this process i don't know if i could just suddenly add this in, I was very afraid of the Virgin Mary. My cousin, out of my entire family, they're the only Catholics. And my mom has like 11 or 10 siblings. She has a bunch and only one section is like Catholic. And so when I would visit them, they had our lady statues of her everywhere. And I was so scared to go anywhere near her. And I would have sleepovers. I was like, can you cover her?

I don't want to look at her. Yeah. And if they said why? I just said she's just scary to me. I was like, I don't know who this lady is. She's freaking me out. Yeah. What kind of statues of her were they? Were they like Fatima or Our Lady Guadalupe? I don't remember, but I think it was Our Lady of Fatima. Yeah.

Did you ask, who is this? No. I just knew that they called her the Virgin Mary. And I don't remember even seeing Jesus in their home. They have him, but he just never popped out to me. Only she did. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm not going to ask you to reenact repeating a mantra. That's not what I'm going to do. But I am interested. So when you would wake up at night and you would start praying, would you just repeat over and over the name of this Buddha? Yes. Yeah. And would you use your breath to do that or would you just say it, say it, say it. I would say it like out loud, audibly. Yeah.

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Have you noticed that or no? You still haven't. Now I have, actually. A lot of people are like, oh, that's cool. Like, should I get into it more? Yeah. Why is it cool? It seems cool.

Man, I don't know how like transparent I can be here. I think people are just bored of their life, and I think they hate it, and they're looking for an outlet. They're looking for some kind of crutch, as we call it, right? So they're like, okay, you mentioned, too, like, I want that spiritual aspect, but I don't want God in there. So they're like, the next thing is, oh, this looks cool. Yes. Yeah. No, I think that's fair.

Because in a way, it's like, what are we dealt? Like, I was brought up in the 90s, you know, 80s and 90s. I'm very old. And, you know, it was just like hedonism and getting drunk and there was, it was just so two-dimensional and none of it was satisfying. And so I feel like there was an attraction to Buddhism because it seemed, I don't know, other, something from the east, something that I don't know a lot about, you know. Okay, cool. All right. So when did you first hear about Christian?

I mean, you knew who Christians were. I did. Yeah. What would you have thought of when you were 13 if you had a scene at crucifix? Man, if I saw it at 13 a crucifix. It's pretty frightening. Isn't that wild? Yeah, I thought it was frightening the first time I saw it.

And I think I was 15, so it's not too far off. It's like, why is there a man nailed to a cross? Well, it was life-size, too, the one I saw. So I guess 13 and 15 isn't too far off. But I had never seen that statue or depiction. before. One, he's like kind of naked, you know, Jesus, our Lord. And he had nails in his hands and it's huge and it's just hanging in a high area where

everyone could see. And I was like, why the heck do you all have this? You think we're weird? What is this? Yeah. I was just like, I was like, who's, I had to ask. I was like, who's Jesus? Right?

Why is he like that? So I was terrified. You know, if I was scared of the Our Lady, just seeing like a tiny little statue of her somewhere, and then seeing this life size of one, I was terrified. That's a lot of statuary in Buddhism, right? There is. So why is it that you think you were afraid of Mary? Do you have any reflections now that you're a Catholic? I mean, I just feel like it's probably like evil trying to keep me away from her.

Yeah, because there were definite, there was a lot of spiritual wear, well, warfare. Because you were chill with a woman with several arms. But you weren't chill with the blessed Buddhism. I was chill with like demons too. We had depictions of demons in the temple. But I was like, this is part of Buddhism. I was just very accepting of it. And I was like hardcore defending Buddhism too.

And my cousin was trying to get me into Catholicism. I was like, no, you should come on this side. What role do demons play in Buddhism? There are instances where we as people and even Buddhists have had past lives. of being demons. They're not seen in the same way in the Catholic Church. They're not seen as bad or evil

or our enemy. So they're just really ugly or sometimes in this area, the state of Nirvana or where we go, where Buddhas are supposed to go, we call it Dei Funukukklaq. Kind of like heaven.

Such a cool word. Say that again. Defun kuglak. So great. Some. I'm like, I'm barely Vietnamese. I'll get into that.

Okay. But they're seen as guardians or Buddhist people are very spiritual. So we don't just come back as animals. We can even come back as plants and demons. So what was your attitude towards your houseplants? Oh, my mom's like, this could have been a person. And I was like, that one was a little harder for me to digest. I was like, I'm going to, I don't know, I can't see this as a person. Well, because you're also eating plants, right? Yeah. That's interesting. So why, okay, because I guess the belief is that plants don't suffer, whereas animals do. It's not that this used to be a person.

See, it didn't make sense. That was a bigger reason. I don't mean to accuse it of not making sense. I'm just trying to understand it. I'll accuse it. So would you look at a pineapple and like, this could have been Debbie? This could be my aunt Debbie. I think they have to be like rooted in the ground, have some water. So there's like at least some kind of. Yeah. So Debbie's, this could be the corpse of what used to be dead. Yeah, she's already gone. She's on to her next life. Okay. All right. So and then so when someone said why don't you eat meat, you would have said what? That was a person. But so was the pineapple.

Yeah, it doesn't fully make sense. Okay. But I would think that a better answer, if I could give you the answer that I think you should give me, is that you're causing suffering when you kill an animal. But presumably you're not causing suffering when you kill a plant. I don't know. It just didn't make sense. It was very contradicting. No, let's talk about this for 30 minutes.

I want to just, no, yeah, okay. Good. Okay. All right. So all right. Tell me how you... So did you first hear about Christianity in general, or did you dive into the deep end with Catholicism? I heard about Christianity when I was in elementary school. I can't remember how the conversation came up, but I had classmates who were talking about God. You know, I heard, oh my God a lot. And also, I told them that I can't really... I think I was saying, I couldn't do the Pledge of Allegiance or I can't pray like they do. I was like because I'm Buddhist. And they're like, oh, that's so cool. I was like, what the heck is that? I've never met a Buddhist.

They're like, I'm Christian. That's what they would tell me. I was like, Christian. I was like, cool. That is so bananas. That's great. Yeah. It's through a kid.

Do you feel cool being Buddhist if they all thought you were cool? Yeah, I thought it was super cool. I'm not like any of them. I'm so exotic. I'm going to keep going to this. Yeah. Totally. Yeah.

Okay. They said they were Christian. Okay. And so I love that. Like you heard the word God and didn't even know what it meant. They probably didn't know what it meant. I don't know what it means. So, okay.

But I didn't know there were different denominations or non-denomination or whatever it is. I didn't know there was a schism on all this whole history thing. I thought it was all the same. I thought Catholics were the same as Protestants. And it wasn't until I became Catholic where I started hearing people like, oh, you're not Christian. I was like, but I am. Oh, there's a. whole thing going on. There's like drama here too.

You didn't realize you got in. We hid that from you. Like, no, it's fine. Everything's fine. Come in. Come in. Come in. And they were like, surprise. Everything's on fire. Yeah. All right. So how did you first gravitate towards Christianity? When did you start to think there might be truth to it? Deep suffering. Really? Yeah. Bless you. Yes. I mean, God bless for that. I would have never found our Lord without that type of suffering.

But I don't know, it's a lot to get into because it starts from my family. So I really love my family. I do. And I have a pretty good relationship with my mother and my father right now. But there was a recession here in America where a bunch of people got laid off. It was like 2007 or 2008. And my dad, he came here on a boat that could only fit one person when he was 16. And he was stranded in the middle of the ocean.

after the war in Vietnam. And it was because a ship had passed by and saw him that he was able to come to America. So he had a lot of trauma. I bet. And he just, he was really trying to build up this, this American dream. He had the wife, the kids, the house, a job.

And then he lost his job. And I think that, that was like a wound in him that he didn't know, none of us knew that he had. And it just made him absolutely just lose himself. And a lot of things happen where my parents have eventually ended up in a divorce. And I was so young, this was when I was in elementary school. I didn't know how to reconcile with, I have this awesome loving family that I look up to

and suddenly they're not who I think they are anymore. And with that, I didn't know how to navigate growing up, so I picked up a lot of bad habits. And eventually, like, it led to a lot of psychiatric stays, a lot of, like, seeing a bunch of therapists taking medication for years. And I was just like, so anxious, so depressed. and very super-sook. And this is why I dove so deep into Buddhism, because I was trying to escape from that.

I was trying to escape from suffering. I think that's another thing why people try to look into Buddhism as well. We're just trying to escape from that. So the more I was diving deeper into that, I was like, it's not working. I was so, I was like, man, at this point, I don't know why I'm here, I don't know why I'm alive. I was like, there's no good reason for me to stay.

for me to stay. I had come to that conclusion at a very young age. And I went to temple to seek refuge. And since that wasn't working, the next thing I learned about was my cousin. When I would visit him, he's always going to Mass on Sunday. I was like, why are you going? Hang out with me. He said, oh, I have an obligation. I have to go to church for one hour. I was like, okay. But eventually, you know, growing up and hearing that, I was like, hey, I've never been to church before. Can I go with you guys? So one day I was just so open. I'm not sure why Holy Spirit, right?

I don't know, maybe guardian angel. And my cousin, he's like, yeah, and he's in confirmation class. So he was actually learning about his faith a lot too. So he was teaching me as I was going with him. And that's when my earliest memory of going to Mass for the first time, when you walk in the church, there's just in front of you, Jesus crucified. And I was like, I was not ready for that. Because, yeah, we have a bunch of statues at Temple.

But Buddha's always looking serene. There's no spears and wounds in him. He's on top of a giant lotus. The female Buddhas as well, they have a calm look on their face. You know, they got their hands in some kind of pose. So I had never seen, like, suffering like that. I was like, I'm suffering too. And I see this person suffering.

It brought so many questions to me. Yeah. Well, that's so lovely. How old were you? I was 15. Okay. Yeah. Did your parents have an opinion about you going to church? So during that time, my parents had, they were separated, they didn't get divorced yet, but they were just so, they were suffering a lot. My parents became like completely different people. So they did not care what I was doing. And at the time, I didn't always live with them. the fights that we had were so bad. Oftentimes I had to go live with other relatives. So they were just out of the picture.

I'm sorry. Okay. And then what questions did you have about Christianity? Well, one, I didn't understand mass. It was all in Vietnamese and I'm not fluent. So everyone was standing up and sitting down at the same time and saying things at the same time. I was like, I don't understand it.

Was it helpful that you walked into a Vietnamese church? Did it feel at least somewhat, accessible because of the culture, because of the language? I think it wouldn't have made a difference because I actually have a hard time connecting with my Vietnamese culture because I was born here and I forgot Vietnamese. I speak very little. So English is my predominant language now. But I think if I walked into any Catholic church, it would have had the same effect on me.

Because either way, that was my first time being exposed to Mass, seeing Jesus' crucified and I didn't even know the Eucharist was there at the time. I didn't even pay attention. I was just there. I was like, I'm just going to go here because I'm looking for something. But I think the questions that I had first was who's Jesus, who is God? And a friend put it, she's like, our religion is very different from others because our God sacrificed himself for us. He died for us because he loves us. And that was my next question. He loves us. He loves us. me. I was like, I didn't, I didn't hear that from my parents. So I was like, what do you mean he loves me, right? I was so confused by that. So then, um, I didn't immediately dive into scripture. I didn't

dive into the history of church. It was like a slow walk. It was as if God was like, I'm going to take you on a ride and we're going to go very, very slowly into all this. And I want you to enjoy it. Because he's such a gentleman, you know, he's a father. At the time I didn't have my, my, my dad there me. So it was like I had another dad, a heavenly father, who was just kind of walking me through life, showing me little things. And the first encounter I had was, you know, after I went to Mass, my cousin's like, would you like to come to adoration with me? Wow. So your, your cousin and family were kind of bored in. My cousin was at least. So it was like it wasn't, he says an obligation. So it was an obligation, but it was something he was, it wasn't like, I resent the fact that I'm being

made to go to confirmation class. No. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he was, he was, he was something. He was, he was, he Like most Catholics. Yeah. No, the thing is, he's my sponsor, too. So he was also trying to figure out the faith. Yeah. It was as if him and I were walking together. Yeah.

He was trying to figure out the faith. He was. Because he didn't quite understand it. He had a lot of questions for God himself. So he grew up knowing about God, having a relationship in a way. But he had his own internal struggles, too, where he's trying to reconcile some things with the church. So through this.

I think him explaining it to me also kind of in a way allowed God to work with him too. Kind of we were both able to grow in a relationship with Jesus because he didn't know it all. But as he's saying it out loud, he's just like, you know, it's making sense as I speak it into reality. Yeah. So, yeah. Wow, okay. Now, did you, it sounds like you kind of just sort of accepted the idea like God is my father, okay? Did you have any pushback or objections or why think this?

is even true at all and not just some story? Well, at the time, I see him as my father now, but I didn't think God existed yet. I didn't believe that. Yeah. I thought Buddha was real and everything about Buddhism was legitimate and true. Nothing was contradicting about it because I'm not very intellectual, so I just don't think about it. And then hearing God exists, he made everything, he made me.

I was like, okay, this is my first time hearing it. Wow. How am I supposed to believe in this? Yeah. Were you looking to see whether or not Catholicism and Buddhism would conflict? Or were you like, okay, I can get down with both. Like, did you try to blend the two? Yeah, I did actually because I met this family that were doing both, like practicing Buddhism and Catholicism.

So I was able to go to Mass with them and go to Temple with them. And I was like, you can do this. They're like, yeah, of course you can. I got a feeling that you're incredulous, look, the way you, of course you can. So I was like, now thinking about it, I'm like, no, you can't, okay. How did they try to justify that? Because they were just able to do it. Yeah.

And I think they didn't uphold everything that the Catholic. Right. They may not have thought it through intellectually enough to be able to show that the systems were compatible. Yeah. Because I think what happens is a lot of these families, these marriages are formed where one person isn't willing to convert and one person is already brought up Catholic. And that's usually how it happens that they start practicing both. But I had that question. I was like, I don't want to

give up what I have, but I'm very interested in whatever this is. So I was like, let me try doing both. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then what happened? Oh, yes. So it was, I think, yeah, I was like 18 or 19. I went to the mountains. I was with these Buddhist nuns. And I was like all in still. And I remember Had you picked up the rosary or some other Catholic prayers, personal prayers, or not yet? No, not yet, not at all. It was, man. So what had happened, though, was I continue. Let me go backwards.

Yeah. So I went to Mass several times already, and I also went to adoration. And I had learned that there was this thing called the charismatic renewal in the church. So I had met people who were also Buddhists who converted to Catholicism. So they were like very zealous. They're like, okay, let's get this girl in, right? But they're like, we'd love to pray for you. Do you know who the Holy Spirit is?

I was like, no. So they're teaching me about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Beautiful. So they're like, we, you know, he's a friend, the advocate that is left here to help us. So we'd like to see if you're open if he could, you know, like do anything for you. I was like, okay, sure. So, you know, I would sit in their home and we would pray in front of like, this statue of Jesus, but he's depicted as a king. He has a crown. He has a scepter. And I was like,

I haven't seen this before either. This is interesting. And they're like, yeah, and they had a bunch of statues of Mother Mary, and I was still a little freaked out by it. And they would pray for me. And they were just instances where I never told people what I was going through. I didn't say anything. I kept it all to myself. And they were just instances where, so I had tried to take my own life several times and I failed. God bless you. I'm so sorry. Yeah. I'll thank you. I'm chilling now for the most part. Yeah. But life's frigging hard, man. It's hard. I was an emotional, angsty person, but. I was too. Maybe not to that extent, but I was virgin on it. I know. I'm sorry. Yeah. All right. So, okay, you had tried to do that. Yeah. I'm glad you failed. Oh, thank you. Thank God. Right. Praise Jesus. But I was like, maybe I didn't do it right.

So, you know, I had that in mind And also Throughout my life Just because of what had been going on with my family When they fell apart and they found out I was depressed I became the scapegoat for them Everything that had failed with our family It was easier to point it at me

You're like, you know, everything is your fault So I definitely internalized that I had this self-loathing of myself I was like, man, if I just get rid of myself I would do everyone good because I'm the staying an accident on this earth. So when I sat and I prayed with these people and I didn't say anything,

they're like, God says he gave you a second chance and he gave you a second chance more than once. Does that mean anything to you? Yeah, and I was like, oh, shoot. I was like, I don't know what that means. I do, I do, I was just really shocked. And then they also said,

God says you're not a freak. he says he doesn't make mistakes and you're not an accident and I was like you know our Lord Jesus Christ used the word freak you know the Holy Spirit use the word freak

I was like because that's all I said throughout my childhood and my teenage years that's all I kept calling myself I'm such a freak so I was like this is way too specific and more instances and experiences where

I would just encounter our Lord that kept happening and then it wasn't until I went to adoration and my cousin invited me where I was in front of the Eucharist. You know, there was a priest. He was a charismatic priest and he was just bringing the Eucharist

around all these students and I was there as well because they could invite anyone. When I was in front of him, I was like, I don't know who you are. I don't really think you're, I don't understand. I see a piece of bread.

Right. I don't understand this. I was like, but I'm open. I was like, can you just help me? And then my whole body just kind of like lost. I missed something. You're in adoration, or are you just in a chapel or what? This was a Eucharistic adoration procession.

Okay. All right. All right. So you say this and sorry to cut you off. Then what happened? Yeah. So I was in front of Jesus and then my body had went limp. I just fell to the ground and I hear someone like wailing super loud.

And then I feel like my face as well. I was like, what is this? It's like an out of body experience almost. I was like, oh, that's me. I'm the one wailing. I didn't realize I was crying so hard. And it was like as if all the pain I had felt was coming out of me. But I couldn't really feel it. I could just hear it and I knew I couldn't move my body. And I was like, that does not make any sense to me. And I was like, I have every right to be skeptical. I was like, this I can't explain. And I think I was like, oh, I know. I was like, that was Jesus. He allowed me to experience that type of healing. And that's why I kept going. to seek him out. But it was such a slow process. This was like five years, like four or five years. What did people around you say or how did they react? Some of them were falling too. Oh. Yeah. So I was like, okay, at least I'm not the only one looking kind of silly over here.

Wow. Yeah. So it wasn't the kind of thing where you're like, other people are falling. I'm going to try that. Yeah. It just hit you out of nowhere. Yeah. I was just like, I saw a line of people. Some of them fell. Some of them didn't. I was like, oh gosh, it's going closer. I don't want this to happen to me. I was like, I don't know what to do. It's just, you know, it looks like this gold trophy that's like going around. So I was like, I don't know anything. And then when it happened, my cousin was there too. I was just looking at him.

He was looking at me because it's never happened to him either. And we were just like staring at each other. We're like, it's like, that happened, right? He's like, yeah. Yeah, so I was really hype. God bless Vietnamese charismatic women. I know. I presume it's the women.

I don't know. I always think that about the Filipino women. Yes. These old Filipino women are holding the church together. I just love them. Maybe it's something similar. Oh, yeah, definitely. I think I would like all of those beautiful people.

Wow, okay, beautiful. So all of this is before this retreat you went on in the mountains. Yes. Okay. Yeah, so that had happened. So how did you process that? Did you think yourself this might be some evidence that this whole thing is real? Or did you think that was weird?

I don't know why I did that. I saw it, yeah, as some evidence, I'm like, okay, there's something here. This is real. Whatever they're doing, it's pretty cool. But it was like It couldn't connect emotionally or to my heart Like that that grace hadn't pierced me yet to know that God was real He allowed all these things for me to encounter in such a way

But for some reason there was still that wall that held me back And I didn't understand what it was But the Lord never pushed that No one ever pushed me It was just like okay I experienced this And me being like this dumb, slow human I'm just going to keep going through life As that happens and then it's going to have

happening again. It kept happening. Things like that. I kept encountering the Lord in such a crazy... Give me another example. Another example. Gosh. Well, there was a time where, again, I went to my friend's house and we prayed, and then I fell down and I'm wailing again. And I'm like, I hate crying in front of people. And I was just wailing so loud and I couldn't understand why, but it was like so much pain was just there. And this older Vietnamese woman, she also converted from Buddhism. She's like, the Lord says, be still and be quiet. He's like, my heart beats for you, feel my heartbeat for you. So she puts her hand on my chest and I'm just crying and I'm sweating. My heart's like beating like crazy, you know, when you cry. And suddenly I feel like a physical heartbeat coming through her hand and it's like at a different frequency. And when she says feel my heart be in sync with you, like be quiet.

And then suddenly it starts going in sync with mine. And it was just such a, it was like a physical heartbeat. And I was like, what is this? This is so crazy. She's like, that's the heartbeat of Jesus beating in sync with yours. And I was just so touched by that. So that had happened to me too. And there was another instance where I didn't know what it was really called, but they were telling me it's kind of like ecstasy where I was praying.

And it was like this invisible water had like enveloped me. And I felt love, nothing that exists here, not from a pain. parent, not from a spouse, not from a lover, not from a friend or sibling. It was a supernatural otherworldly love that I had never felt. And I was just crying. I was like, I feel so, so loved. I've never felt that before. It was like nothing mattered anymore. And then my friend had to tell me, she's like, oh yeah, Jesus was telling you he wants you to feel his love. I was like, oh girl, I felt it. Can I share an experience I had that's similar to that? I was about 18 years old. I had just returned back from World Youth Day in the year 2000 when you were probably a zygote.

And actually, I don't know. How old are you? I'm 28. Cool. So I was at work. And I remember thinking, I can go home and pray or maybe I'll go to the cathedral. So I go to the cathedral and there's this big van in the driveway. And that was weird because there were surfboards on the van.

So I knocked on the door and I opened up, you know, this room that was right next to the cathedral, which I went to a little. lot. And there were like two young people in there, like 20s, you know. And I am from a very small town in South Australia and I was the only young person who believed in Jesus Christ. I was trying to get other people to come along with me, but there was no one there, you know. And I said to them, can I help, can I help you or can you help me? Turned out they were part of this missionary team called Net Ministries that would travel across Australia and running retreats for high school students. I was like just so excited to meet other young Catholics who love Jesus Christ. There's about 12 of them. They were all like normal and good looking and like they weren't weird,

you know, like how that stereotype we sometimes have of young Christians. And they asked if we could pray together. I'm like, all right, yeah, sure, let's do that. That sounds good. So we walk into the cathedral. It's about, I don't know, 9 p.m. at night. And I sit down and they stand around me and they start praying over me. And, you know, I was all about it. But I remember thinking, this is kind of awkward because they, I hope they don't expect something to happen. You know what I mean? And like then I'm going to be like, amen. Well, thank you very much, everybody. It's been, you know, because they were, they were really getting into it. So just as I'm having this thought of, I hope they don't expect me to like cry or something, like, I don't

know, just as I have that thought, I open up my eyes and tears were screaming out of my face. It was like I was weeping before I knew I was weeping. Praise God. Yeah. And it was just like, oh my gosh, I was so shocked by it. Yeah, I can just say, like, it wasn't the kind of thing where I was trying to work myself up. Like, I don't think I wanted that to happen. I'd just met these people.

But I went with it and like the gift of tears. I was weeping for like maybe 10 minutes or something. And then like a just burst into laughter. I just was this. And I don't laugh like that. I love how people can laugh like that. I always wish I was one of those people who could barely laugh. But I just don't laugh a lot.

Like I go, ha, ha, ha. Yeah, like that. That's the most. But I burst into this uncontrollable laughter. And I could barely drive my car home. I felt drunk. I just felt the love of God. It was so powerful.

Anyway, I thought since you shared three experiences with me, I would share that. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I've heard instances of that, and I heard it too. Instead of the gift of tears, people would just burst out laughing. Yeah, felt weird. Yeah. Praise Jesus.

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So you've had this experience. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you've experienced too much to now write off Christianity and Catholicism. And then you go on this retreat. Yeah. But you know, when all that happened, I was still like, God, are you real? I still had that doubt. When I found it, when I believed he was real, it was just very anticlimatic. Okay.

It was like in the middle of the night, I'm living with my aunt. I'm just like scrolling through my phone and suddenly this thing just pierces me where it's just like, hey, God's real and he loves you. I was like, oh my gosh, why is it hitting me now in the middle of the night? I was like, yeah, I had to text my cousin. I was like, hey, man, I actually believe God is real now. And I know he loves me. And he's like, yay. So I was like, okay.

Now everything connected intellectually and in the, Were you afraid that it was just like this wish fulfillment or why weren't you sold on the existence of God? I think. What I mean is, did you suspect, I just want this to be true, but that doesn't mean it's true. Maybe I'm just getting emotional because other people were getting emotional. Did you have that kind of doubt or was it something different? No, I only had that doubt after I became Catholic actually. But before I just, I was so numb and apathetic to a lot of things.

So I just kind of let things happen. And I didn't question anything any further. My life line at the time was Buddhism. So this was still something completely brand new. But I think, you know, when we go through a conversion and when we believe that God is real, it's because of him. He's the one who grants us that divine grace to believe in that. So it was truly him where he's like, okay, now is the moment. He didn't give it to me before.

And only God knows why, right? So I was like, okay, I love it. Like, it's chill. It's not some kind of great moment where I'm just like bursting in tears. I was like, oh, my whole life was alive. It was just like, oh, it was quiet. Yeah. It was like, where no one was around me.

It was like peaceful. And I knew the Lord was there. So that's what had happened. But then the next question was, do I want to be Catholic? Right? So I was like, gosh, that's a big step. Uh-huh. Yeah.

So I think this retreat, it wasn't something I was seeking out in the mountains. It was my mom was like, hey, my Buddhist nun friend wants to take you to this retreat. You should go with her. So I was like, okay, I'll go with her. I don't mind. I'm not doing anything right now. I'll go travel with her. And I went and I did all these things that I was used to. But it wasn't until the last day we were together. We sat in a coffee shop and she just said, hey, there's this ritual that I would like for you to go through that will really kind of officially make you like a pure Buddhist if there was such a thing. Like you'll belong to Buddha. And then I believe this was my guardian angel. It's just all of these like alarming thoughts were going off in my head. It's like, don't do this. This is not where you belong to God. I remember that like going over and over in my head.

Like you belong to Jesus. You need to become Catholic now. And that was going off in my head as I was just looking at her telling me all this. I was like, yeah, that sounds cool. I'll see. Let me think about it. And then I just sat on the plane home and I was like, gosh, I have to be Catholic. That's what it was.

Yeah. Wow. All right. Are you sharing any of this with your mom? The Catholic stuff? I mean, she must know you're going to these churchy things. Yeah, she knew I was going. But at the time, my mom was grieving her relationship, her marriage.

So she had other things to occupy her mind. Yeah, she was just busy, yeah. All right. So who did you say to, who's the first person that you went to and went, how do I become Catholic? Yeah, my cousin. Yeah. And what did he say? He's like, okay.

So he got me connected to some people at a local church. And then I started R-CIA. Yeah. Yeah, but they didn't have a great system over there. They didn't have anyone in the English department. So we had a volunteer come up. And he's like, hello, I have a Bible. And he opened the Bible.

And I would meet up with him every Sunday after Mass. And he's just like, how are you doing? And he would tell me about his marriage. He would tell me it was life. But I didn't learn anything. And that went on from the beginning of RCAA all the way to Easter. Okay. Yeah.

That was your OCIA. That was my host. Yeah. Did you know that you were supposed to be learning something about Catholicism? Yeah, but I didn't know, like, how structured it was supposed to be. So did you ever get a book or go on YouTube and try to learn something yourself? Yeah, I had YouTube. Okay.

So I watched a lot of Father Mike Schmidt. Come on. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So a lot of the questions I had, He said it in such a pure way. Oh, he's so good.

Yeah. So I was like, it makes it simple for someone like me because I'm a little slow. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I was like, this is great. I understand it. Because if you use a lot of big words, I'm just going to end up asking like, what does this mean? What does that mean? Fair.

Yeah. Beautiful. Oh, how good is that? God bless Father Mike. He's done so much good for the church. And he's exactly how he appears online. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

He's just a good man. Yeah, who loves Christ. and he's just the real deal. So I'm so happy to hear that. So what kind of videos of him did you watch that kind of strengthened your faith or helped you understand things? Do you remember? It's hard to remember what it was specifically.

But I think I was looking up things like, like how do I know Jesus loves me? Or I was going through a lot of super thoughts. So I was like, man, if I commit these things, am I going to go to hell? I just had all these questions about myself. Yeah. Like, hey, I'm struggling with the sin. I keep going to confession for the same thing.

I was like, what do I do with all of this? Or I have issues with my family. And he had answers for all of these things. And as I watched him, it really felt like I was looking at Jesus the whole time. So, yeah. That's so good. I had simple questions, I think. Yeah, that's beautiful.

So, okay, by the end of that year, you were, what, ready to be baptized? I almost opted out, actually. How did that happen? Yeah. So as I was doing this, that's when, you know, spiritual warfare became a thing. I was like, I didn't know. It was crazy. It wasn't anything like, you know, demon grabbed me about throwing me across the wall.

It was more of like I would have very vivid dreams. Okay. And it frightened me so much where I couldn't sleep. So I didn't have any relationship with Our Lady, but I would see in my dream statues of her. Yeah. Like falling on the ground, breaking into pieces. I would see Jesus on the cross crucified and it would just fall down and break. Wow.

And then I saw religious nuns and sisters in my dream. And I didn't really know much about them. But they all looked terrifying. They're missing parts of their faces. They just look so ugly and scary. And I would just be surrounded by these things and they would just whisper. And I think I had sleep paralysis like one time. I've heard of that.

That sounds horrific. Yeah, I was terrified. And all I could do during that entire time was I didn't know any prayers. Yeah. All I would say was Jesus have mercy on me. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, and I didn't know what I was doing, but I was losing a lot of sleep. And I was hearing all these things and like these intrusive thoughts of yourself, like get rid of yourself.

And I didn't know what was going on. So, you know, there would be times where I would just grab the tool or whatever was going to use to take my own life. and I'd just be alone, like, grasping it. Like, Jesus saved me. I don't have anyone else to reach out to. And the day before I got baptized, like, I was really going to quit. I ran away from where I was staying. They called the cops.

They were looking for me. And I was just like, Jesus, I can't do this. I was like, I want to get close to you. I was like, but I'm being tortured right now. And everyone thinks I'm crazy. So many people thought I was crazy. And it wasn't until one of the women who prayed over me, me. She was like, she was saying, hey, my cousin was freaking out. He was looking for me. So he called for

her help and she says, Jesus is saying she feels really lonely right now. And she's like, and I hear all of the, all of the nasty things that is being said to her. So I was getting like a demonic oppression of some sort that they were just kind of mentally in my head. Was this stronger than what you had experienced years prior? Oh yeah. This was way stronger. It was, it. It was, it It was like I couldn't stop it. There was nothing I could do. During the day, it was constant in my sleep. It was happening.

It would only stop in my dreams, too, if I could get out the name of Jesus or Mary. I would try to pray in my dreams, like what I had practiced from Buddhism where I would pray in my sleep. Yeah. I was able to do that with the prayers here. So I would say, like, Jesus, help me or Mary.

I would say, Hail Mary or our father. But in the dream, there's always something grabbing my throat. Okay. I couldn't say it. And when I was able to be like, Jesus, Mary, and then I would wake up. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I hope it's not to... Is it okay if I share a story about a dream I had? Of course. Yeah. Okay, so after my conversion, I had the most... It's funny, too, when you talk about, like, nightmares,

because when you say it in the sober light of the day, you're like, I know it doesn't sound scary, but it was the worst thing that ever happened. So this is what happened to me. I was running around desperately looking for something in my dream. and I enter this cave, and all I knew was the panic to find this thing. And I turn into this dark room, and I find it. And it's the chalice of the precious blood of Christ filled to the brim. And all I remember is that it wasn't on the ground.

It was on some sort of box or something that was elevating it. And it wasn't an intellectual thing in my dream. It wasn't like, oh, I know I should want this. It was like, this is all I need. and I went towards it and as I did this strange looking dog completely unintimidating

looking it had no whites in its eyes had fully black eyes and a crooked tail and it started rocking it didn't walk it rocked between sorry is this too much oh no no keep telling me

it rocked between until it was between me and the precious blood and then its mouth dropped like its jaw was had been just turned to water and it screamed a human scream at me. That's not cool. You don't want that. Devil was so cool. I woke up.

Yeah. I woke up. So scared. Yeah. I would have been terrified. That sounds, I'm getting like goose. Yeah, it was awful. It was absolutely awful.

I remember like being the kind of frightened where the world can't be the same. I can't just go back to bed. I need to wake someone up or go somewhere or do something. Yeah, that's frightening. So this happened, you said before. This is shortly after my conversion. Ah. All this stuff happened after.

See, they always throw out their dang party tricks when you're trying to get. But you know what's funny? I wouldn't have even thought of that as demonic attack at the time. I think I just thought it was weird. Isn't that? Because I was in my own formation. So even though I had accepted Christ as my savior and loved him, I didn't know much. And I didn't necessarily accept a lot of the church teachings.

I was still making my way. I see. Yeah, I see. Wow. Yeah. So how beautiful that someone had taught you the Hail Mary. So you're laying awake in bed, it sounds like. Or no, you're trying to say the Hail Mary as you feel like you can't get the words out.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, but they would show up pretty ugly like that too, where their eyes were missing, too. Their mouths were just all nasty instead. Wow. Or there was some freakier stuff. I don't know if I, like. Yeah, whatever you're comfortable with.

I don't want to. Like, I would see people. hanging from the ceiling. Okay. It was like, I think the devil was mocking me a lot because that was like a big temptation of me to take my own life in that way.

So I would always see that in my dreams. And I just never saw anyone to come help me. So that was like every single day, every moment. But before the day of my baptism, you know, my godmother, she reached out to me. She's like, they're attacking you. She's very spiritual. She's one of those spiritual Vietnamese ladies.

She just... Tell me she can cook well. I have no idea. I've never tried her cooking. I just feel like old old Vietnamese women could make beautiful food. Oh, definitely. They had to cook. Now it's just most of us women are not great at cooking. Well, you can ask their help. All right. So this beautiful woman, she reaches out to you. She says they're attacking you. Yeah. Okay. And she's like, the closer you get to God, of course, the devil doesn't want that. She's like, I see him. He's like always around the corner for you.

Like he's always creeping up on you. That scared me. I was like, oh, I'm being messed with. I didn't know at the time. I just thought I was going crazy. She's like, yeah. So that. I love that she says it so chill. Yeah. Oh, she's super chill. Yeah.

She's a very forward woman. But it helped me. Yeah. Because I understood. I was like, oh, I'm being attacked right now. And they don't want this for me because it's good. So I was like, okay. So she's like, let me pray for you real quick.

And she's like, and I'm going to tell you about St. Michael. So she introduced me to St. Michael Archangel. She prayed for me. And that night, I slept fine. Wow. I was like, finally, right? And then I. was able to receive all the sacraments for the first time.

And when that happened, I was just crying. I was so relieved. I was like, oh, finally. I was like, this is my first time receiving Jesus. This is wonderful. So you knew about the Eucharist at that point, even though you had terrible RCIA formation. Yeah, I did.

I think my first encounter with Jesus was through the Eucharist. So I have a deep devotion to the Eucharist now, yeah. Did your parents or mom come to the baptism? Or how did she handle this? Yeah, so my mom and my older brother, they came, so they sat through the entire thing. And my dad, he briefly showed up with his family. He got remarried. He took his photos and then he left early.

Yeah. So they were there. That's nice. It looks like there was some acceptance of what you were doing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And when was that?

2018, you said? 2018. Yeah. Wow. That was a while ago. So what does life look like now? Man. So.

How have you grown in your faith? How have you doubted the faith? How have you journeyed with our blessed Lord? Man, I also need to tell you, like, the way you reached out to me was quite providential as well or crazy for me. But when I became Catholic, I actually fell off very quickly. And you could say it's, you know, I was catechized very poorly. But I didn't feel supported. I was very alone because after that my cousin had left to go do some missionary work.

So he was the one walking with me and journeying with me through my faith, and he wasn't there. So I didn't know who else to reach out to. Mm-hmm. And I went to my home parish. And then I learned not all Catholics think the same. Mm-hmm. They either haven't had a deeper conversion or some of them just, they didn't believe God was real. They didn't believe heaven was real.

I heard from one of them saying, we're just a bunch of robots. And when we die, there's just going to be nothing. I heard that from like, I'm pretty sure that's not in the catechism. I was like, I went to your Catholic wedding. I was like, this is so confusing for me. Yeah. So I was like, man, I'm the only one who thinks like this. And there were a lot of, you know, my real life problems were still there.

Yeah. I didn't combat that. Doesn't that suck? Yeah. But they have been great if they weren't. You know? But yeah, I was like, I don't know how to move forward from here. I was like, okay, I became Catholic.

I have Jesus with me. I was like, but what do I do with my problems? I didn't even know how to ask our Lord for help. And with that, the funny thing. was too was I became like a candidate for dating. So a lot of Catholic men saw like, hey, there's a new Catholic woman here. She has a veil on. It's so pretty. So they started reaching out to me. And then that caused like a huge disruption in my faith journey. And that led to like a lot of like a lot of mortal sin. And then a lot of shame. So then for eight years, it wasn't until last year where I was like

super convicted again. I was like, Lord, I miss you. I was like, I want to go to confession. I want to go to Mass. I didn't go to Mass for like all that time. I would go here and there and I would go to confession here and there. But it was so, so hard to go. And also it's just right now I don't have my driver's license. So it's just like, I'm stuck. I was like, I can't even go to Jesus. It's just in my deep personal prayer time. In my own home, there's a bunch of Buddhist statues everywhere. I was like. Right. Because you live with your folks? Yeah, I live with my mom and my brother. So I was like, this is terrible. But it wasn't until last year where, you know,

Jesus reintroduces himself to us in a way that helps us recognize him, right? Kind of like in the same way where he broke bread in front of the two disciples when he was resurrected. They didn't realize it was him until that moment. And that kind of happened for me because I remember seeing Jesus through the Passion of Christ, that movie. I was like, yo, this guy's super bloody. This is so gory. I was like, what are you guys watching? You know, my cousin would watch that every Christmas and stuff.

And that was like another way I saw Jesus. It was through the statue I saw at church and then through that movie. And then it had been years where I was just like completely cut off from him in like total darkness. And then the chosen came out. And I was kind of against watching that actually. But I'm in a relationship with someone who's not Catholic or Christian. And I still, I still loved. Jesus and I could bring him up however I could.

So he's like, hey, how about we try watching this so I can understand a little better? I said, okay, sure. And I was very doubtful. But then as soon as Jonathan Rumi comes up in that first episode, I started crying. Oh, he's so good. Yeah. I'm the exact same. My wife and kids were telling me, hey, we're watching this new TV show about Jesus.

And I rolled my eyes. Like, the last thing I need is some cheesy. And I walked down and I saw Jonathan Rumi portraying Jesus. I went, that's him. That is, you know? Yes, yes, that's exactly what happened. Yeah, and was the first episode or the second episode about Mary Magdalene? I think it's the first one.

It's like at the very end. Wow, how powerful is that? Yeah. Yeah. And I... All right, so you watch this with your boyfriend. Yeah, and he was like caught off guard too. He's just like, yo, this Jesus guy's really cool.

Like, that's what he was thinking. But then for me, I was like, oh, that's my lord. I forgot all about it. I'm going to emotion. I was just talking about it. And so... I love how you put it. I miss him. Yeah, it had been so long.

And then this is when I started watching your channel more. Okay, wow. Yeah, so you had just popped up in my feed. I was really into, like, conservative media content. It was, like, slowly trickling down to Catholic content. And then you came up, and that's when I saw Jonathan Rumi on your show. And I was hearing his story about he just surrendered and gave his life to Jesus, and all of these doors opened up.

And I was like, man, I'm so freaking sick of my life. It's like, I'm tired. That's the truth. I'm exhausted. I was like, let me try that. And it was because I watched that show and then I listened to the interview. So in my home, I have just one little area in my house where someone gave me the holy family statue. And that's the only little spot I have where just like Jesus is invited there.

I got on my knees in the living room and I put my head on the floor. And I was like, Jesus, I surrender everything to you. I give my life to you. Everything that I have, everyone that I have, everything that I hope for, I give it to you. I want to be a saint now. I was like, I'm so tired. And after that, that's when I started my YouTube channel. Yeah.

And even posting my first video about my conversion, there was spiritual warfare in that, too. It was just like, everything's trying to stop me. Okay. Yeah, but yeah, that's what's going on. Wow. And how, do you mind me asking, how long ago was that when you sat down and watched The Chosen and recommitted. Was that last year you said? It was last year. Okay.

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And I was like, and Jesus is the person who matters the most to me. I was like, even more than you. I was like, how do you feel about all this? No offense. Yeah, I just had to be honest with him because we had been living in like mortal sin for so long. But he's the first relationship where I genuinely felt a connection with this person. I had no desire to get married before. And it comes a lot from the trauma with my own parents. And when I met him, I was like, Lord, I don't want to get married. And then, you know, Jesus kind of opened up my heart. He's like, I think you do. I was like, oh, I think I do. So I was like, oh, hey, no, I'm actually, and I learned more about what marriage was and how beautiful it is,

and it's such a gift, right? So I felt that way with this person. I was like, I see myself growing together with them. I'd love to take them to heaven with me and to make, like, little saints, but this guy is not even Catholic. So I told him, I was like, how do you feel? I'm going to give up everything.

Like, we were smoking weed regularly. You know, we were living in mortal sin. It's just we were having, like, non-marital sex and all these things. And he's like, okay, I'll give it up. And originally, I thought he was doing it for me. and he's like, no, I want to grow closer to God, too. I was so surprised. I was like, oh, Jesus, it's happening.

I'll see where this goes. And shortly afterwards, he got a job, so he moved to Boston. We're doing long distance now. As soon as I gave my life to Jesus, it was like he was taken away. And the Lord was like, I want you to focus. I'll work on him. Look at me. Yeah, it's like, between you and me.

I don't want anybody to have you right now. So I was like, okay. and I always felt called actually to talk on YouTube on social media. I actually started talking about my conversion story a long time ago when I first converted, but I put that on private because I felt so insecure and doubtful. I was like, no one's going to care. No one's going to listen. You know, I'm just this idea was put into my mind that I'm just this newbie Catholic,

and even my own personal experience wouldn't matter. It's not that anyone could change it. just I was very insecure, right? I had a lot of self-loathing. So I put that on the side. I was like, maybe this isn't what I'm supposed to do. But that idea, that inspiration was put back into my mind where I was like, I'm going to try again because I had been watching so many apologetics. I was watching you and I was so touched because you brought all types of unique voices on here that shared their personal conversion. And there were many times where I'm just sitting in front of my screen, bawling my eyes out, like listening to you guys talk.

Yeah. So when I wanted to start all of this, the whole YouTube journey, I told the Lord, I was like, man, I was like, Matt Frad is spreading the gospel. And I was like, and I know I would have made it if you could bring me onto his show, Lord. I was like, I'm just dreaming real big right now. I was like, Jesus. But, you know, it would help me a bit if you could help me out with that. So I made that prayer, I think, around like November. Uh-huh.

And I didn't think much of it after. Uh-huh. So I recorded it. And even before then, I was speaking about the spiritual. warfare. Suddenly I became super again. I was just like absolutely losing my mind. And then, you know, I think the Lord uses social media as a way to speak to us. So then suddenly Gabriel Castillo just posted this video. He's like, I'm getting this understanding from our lady that some of us are in trouble right now. And I definitely was because I was like on the verge of taking

my own life again all of a sudden. And he's like, you need to be able to discern the Lord's voice and the voice of the enemy and ask our lady for help and I didn't really have Mother Mary in my life too much and it was last year as well when I had a deeper relationship with her so I had a deeper conversion all last year where I got really, really sick

I couldn't eat or sleep I was having a lot of gurd issues like acid reflux I was just constantly go to the restroom and I was so depressed and I was praying And I was like, Lord, I was like, you're not listening to me. You're not helping me.

I'm kind of mad at you right now. And it was when I heard about our lady through Gabriel, where he's like, she is our mother. And she'll ask you, like, will you let me be your mother? Like, I love you. And I was like, that's so strange. Let me try. So I attempted to pray the rosary for the first time by myself. And I asked her to come.

And then I smelled roses in my home. And it was so crazy. I was like, where do I smell roses? I checked around the house. There weren't any. roses and then the next day I prayed again and I smelled roses again and I was just I was crying because I can't believe it like that she would come to my aid when this is my first time ever trying to ask for her help so then after that I had a deeper devotion to her I was like you know I have a mom now

you know I was like I have a dad I have a mom now a spiritual heavenly mother and father and so before I posted the video I asked for our lady to come and help me I was like hey I think I'm being attacked hey I'm really depressed and I'm doubtful. What do you want me to do, mother? And suddenly it was so easy to just edit the video and talk on camera and post. I was like, that's probably not going to go anywhere. And then the views were just picking up. And I was like, okay, let me post another video. And I kept going and going and going. And then during this time, I was just so in tune with our lady. I was praying the rosary every day. I was going to adoration. I was going to mass. I was going to confession. and this just kept going and going because at this point I guess I became like an extreme Catholic like you could call it I was like I started reading more into the saints

I started reading scripture for the first time I started trying to understand who the father was and I was like these saints have such amazing stories they set the world on fire just by being who they are just by saying yes to the Lord and by abandoning their own desires and accepting the Lord's will I want to do that I'm so tired of this life

So I was like, I'm just going to be authentically myself. I don't know if anyone else is doing that on YouTube, but I'm going to show everyone what it's like to be a regular person, practicing their faith, striving for holiness. And it just feels like this roller coaster now because it's only been like halfway into 2026. And suddenly I keep saying yes. I keep getting tired.

I'm like, I don't want to do this. I'm losing sleep over stuff. I have my moments of doubt, but like this time I'm just clinging to him. And, you know, he sent me to places. I went to conferences. There are times where I didn't have any funding to go anywhere, but the Lord provides it. I served on a retreat for the very first time. There were just so many things that he was showing me because I offered my fidelity to him.

And I'm like, wow, your life really does become radically transformed when, you know, you let Jesus guide everything. and there was a point before you reached out to me. So I was like on a high, I was like, man, I was like, I'm so holy. But then I think a wound that was there had like opened up. And I was just in so much pain because I was like, man, I'm fighting with my mom again. I'm fighting with my brother. I'm fighting with my boyfriend. And all this doubt came in.

And the thing that I failed, I, I, like I fell down. I started smoking weed again and then I got really drunk. And then that led to like a bunch of other mortal sins. And I was like, man, I just committed all of this sin after all this commitment. And then that I like woke up instantly. I was like, oh, this is what they wanted me to do. So the next thing I did immediately was go straight to confession.

Good job. And then I sat in front of the Blessed Sacrament and I just wept. I was like, Lord, you forgive me so easily. I was like, you look at me the same even though I try to make myself out to be this monster. I was like, I'm so sorry. Help me to never depart from you again. I just don't want to hurt you anymore.

So that had happened, and I came home, and I was so depressed because I was like, man, I'm just on this high, and then suddenly I fell. And I accidentally reset my phone. So my devices stopped working all of a sudden. Like a lot of stuff started having me like my glasses, the nose pad popped up, the lights are flickering.

Well, in my closet, they just stopped working. My phone stopped charging, my iPad that I used to do work, stop charging. I was like, oh, I got to do all these things and fix it. But I accidentally factory reset my phone. And I had years of memories of my family, my dog, my boyfriend. I didn't back up anything. And I was so sad. I was crying.

I was in my backyard praying. I was like, Lord, this freaking sucks. I was like, I just, I was so attached to my phone. and I lost everything. I was like, gosh, okay, I was on the phone with the operator for like a while. And I was like, okay, I got to download everything again. I got to do everything. I lost all my numbers, all my memories.

It's a clean slate. It actually helped a lot because it helps me be less addicted to it. But then I opened Instagram. I was like, hopefully no one's like talking to me about work or anything. And then I see Matt Fred sent you a message. I was just looking at it. I didn't even open it up. I just started sobbing.

Oh. I was sobbing because I was like, Sorry? No. I said, I was like, Jesus, you have to be kidding me right now. I was like, I just messed up big time. Oh, it was around that time. Yeah, it was around that time.

Yeah. And I was like, how could you ever use someone like me? Right. I was like, and I know I prayed about this. I was like, but I'm just a normal girl who has all of these shortcomings. I'm not successful by the terms of the West. You know, I didn't go to college. I don't have my license.

I had to do homebound for high school, so I barely grew up around my peers. I was like, I just have a, I'm Asian too. You know, there's high expectations of Asians. And I was like, I didn't meet any of these things. So I was like, I'm such a loser. That's how I felt like. And then I saw you message me.

I said, okay, let me just see what it says. Yeah, what did I say? You were like, hi, do you have a video of your conversion story? And then you said, I'd like to invite you in my show. And I was like, but I was so doubtful. I was like, man, I was like, Lord, this is you. this is definitely you. So I was just sobbing that day.

So I was like, you know, I lost whatever digital thing on my phone that isn't even real, that isn't going to come with me to heaven. And I have this opportunity to come onto the show that I have been watching, that I had been inspired by, someone who I see as a saint in the making, because you're doing the Lord's work. So I was like, I'd love to speak with this person. That was like, it'd be such an honor and a blessing for me. And it happened. So, yeah. Yeah, now I'm here. Well, what's so beautiful about what you've shared and what I'm sure you'll continue to share over on your YouTube channel is just that, you know, the appropriate transparency.

I think the devil desires to sift us as wheat so that we can feel completely isolated and different, somehow unique. I remember a spiritual father once saying to me after I was like talking about these struggles with certain sins, he's like, just you know you're not special, right? And his point was like, we're all in this. You're not, but I think that's really beautiful that you can be so transparent about, you know, like I could imagine someone being tempted to like just whitewash the time between baptism and now, right? Like I was baptized and I don't have to talk about the other stuff. And now I'm great and everything's fine. And I don't struggle with anything like depression or emotional stuff anymore. But it's those very struggles that people will relate to.

Like you said, like you would listen to pints in different people. people would share their different things and... Yeah. Sorry. We'll take that out if you want. No, can you keep it in actually? You're so lovely. Oh, thank you.

Just when I'm talking about how cool it is, how authentic you are, you're like, I'm going to burp. I was like, it's not going to go away. So either you're going to hear it in my gut, you're going to hear it out loud. That happens to me too. But I'm not as cool as you. I'm like, please, please. No, you're super cool. Anyway, yeah, but that's beautiful.

And so what is the name of your YouTube channel? It's Le Beloved. I tried to put my last name in there and then the word beloved and I tried to put my own name in the word beloved because I was really touched by my cousin. He's like, you know, our Lord calls us beloved? And I never heard of anyone calling me anything so sweet. So it stuck with me. That's beautiful. Yeah, we'll link to it below so people can follow your channel there.

What have you done or what do you do to maintain a, you know, so that the wheels don't fall off your spiritual. life and your Christian life right now. Like what's important? And this will also be helpful to those who are watching, who are considering converting to Catholicism or are new Catholics themselves and can identify with your story. And they're like, how do I not go back? I don't want to go back. But sometimes that pull to go back to where we were is strong.

You know, prayer, fellowship. Like, how do you maintain your Christian life right now? Yes. So isolation is a huge thing. It's no good, right? That's how the devil gets to us. So I realized, I was like, I don't have any friends. Because when I gave my life to Jesus, I had to give up my old friends too.

Like they just weren't helping me spiritually. So I was all alone and I don't have family. So I had to incorporate that into my prayer. I was like, Lord, like I do need friends. I need a community. And eventually through like several weird encounters and instances, I was like, oh, he's like kind of, he's the one offering the path for this. So I did find a Bible study very recently this year as well.

And it's not, you shouldn't settle for just people who are Catholic. You need people who are all in, who believe everything that we stand for, and that will help you grow. And it was definitely these people. They call me out on things that aren't so great. They also offer a lot of wisdom for me because they've been practicing for a very, very long time. They call it being an altering Catholic.

You need to be open to everything that the Lord offers to you and not be so closed off to everything. So I was able to find this community and I meet up with them weekly. And, you know, we go to Mass together. We go to adoration together. We pray together. We do the rosary together. So also being very intentional and you just need to pray.

Prayer is our lifeline with the Lord. You know, it's us responding to him because he's always reaching out to us. So I had to ask for that grace. You know, when you try to raw dog and do everything, yourself, you can't do it. So I was like, Lord, give me the grace to love you better and do what I need to do. So eventually, it just kind of slowly happens where I would wake up and the first thing I do, I'm like, good morning, Jesus. I was like, I give the state to you. And then, you know, we learn from our little flower, St. Teris, to offer up every little thing. So as I, I do my laundry,

I brush my teeth, I take a shower, I do the dishes. I'm like, this is for you, Jesus. I always have to, like, you have to be obsessed with him in a way. So he's granted me the grace for that. And definitely it's Mother Mary who's like really assisting me as well. Yeah, I think so. Because I never asked for her help before. And every single day too, I tell her good morning. I'm like, good morning, mama. I was like, help me to do what I need to do today. And then I learned about guardian angels. So I was like, oh, they're, they're meant to guide you to heaven. They're here to ask. they're here to help you. You need to ask them for prayers and become friends with them.

So I kind of ask for everybody to help me. And it's really cool because there was this whole thing too where I learned how many friends I have, how the saints are just like absolutely surrounding me. I was like, that's really cool. So, and at night too, you have to start the morning, your day, and you have to end the day with Jesus. And you also have to have the sacraments as much as possible.

Like these are gifts. Like they're, they're just freely given. Like, we don't know when we won't have them anymore. You know, we're just meant to receive that. So I try to go to confession as much as possible. I try to go to adoration. I try to, yeah. If you don't mind me asking, what was it like going to confession for the first time?

You know, at least the first time that you were like, all right, I'm going to give it. Like, was that a weird experience coming from a Buddhist background? I always find it funny. He's like, hey, what if you go into that small room and tell the man you don't know all the bad things you've done. All right, that's kind of, that's a lot. That wasn't too intimidating. I just didn't really know what to do step by step. So the first time I actually went to confession, I wasn't Catholic yet.

So they're like, you can't really receive it, but maybe you can experience it. So I had shared my sins. I was, and I want to share this a lot too because I think women don't feel safe to share this. Yeah, I struggled with getting high. I struggled with drinking and getting drunk, but like a huge sin that had a huge vice on me was I was sexually abused at a very young age and exposed to pornography.

So I was addicted to pornography and masturbation. I was feeling so much shame from that and I didn't know who to talk to. So I brought it up to the confessor, the priest. And he brought up, he mentioned Judas and Peter. And I didn't know the story at the time, but he's like, a lot of us could either be like Peter where we sin, but we come back.

and we repent and we ask for forgiveness or we can be like Judas where we we fall into despair and we can't look at the face of our Savior. He's like, be like Peter. And I thought that was such sweet advice. Great advice. Yeah. Have you heard of Magdalah Ministries? No. Okay, we've got to do this because I want all the beautiful women out there who have been, you know, told that this is something that they shouldn't struggle with or it's weird to struggle with or whatever. Magdala Ministries is a glorious Okay, magdala ministries.org. They have small groups for women who are trying to overcome self-abuse and pornography. And they're just terrific.

Oh, wow. So that's cool. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Yeah. But the first time I went to confession, after I had become Catholic, was very lackluster. I was never taught how to say the act of contrition, right? I didn't have great criticism. Yeah. And I went to my first... No offense to that guy. He's like, hello.

Yeah, I mean, he stepped it up when no one else did. So I was like, you know, God bless him. But I walked into the confessional and I said my sins again after I had sin again after. And I didn't know the act of contrition. So the priest, he's like, what do you mean? You don't know it? How do you not know it yet? He's like, what are you?

I just became Catholic. He doesn't know that. So sorry for the accent. But he was that Indian? Yeah, he was an Indian priest. Yeah. Thank you. It was great.

It was very well done. Oh, thank you. I do that alone in my free time. I just like talk by myself, try to mimic as much accents. I love it so much. Yeah. A little weird with that. But yes.

And I was like, taking it back. I was like, you're so mean. I was like, father, you're still mean. I didn't say that. But I thought to myself. And he's like, okay, go. He was very tired. Yeah.

He was an old tired. It's going through a lot. All right. Yeah. It's a long day. I was like, okay, fine. But at the time, I understood he's in place for Jesus. And I'm just here to receive that grace and that mercy, which I did receive.

Yeah. So that was my experience of my first confession. That stinks, huh? Yeah. Well, thankfully, I think it's fair to say that's not what most people experience. Yeah, no. Yeah. It's because people tell me these horror stories, and I don't doubt that they happen.

I've just been a Catholic for a long time and I've only ever experienced. Yeah, sometimes I'll experience tough love, but it's. always with mercy. Yeah. All right, good. So you have friends in Houston, in wherever you live, sorry. No, yeah, Houston. Okay, good. Yes, yes, yes. So you have friends that you pray with. And I love that Gabby helped you pray the rosary. Yeah. God bless Gabby. What a good guy. Speaking of the rosary, have you seen this book? No. Okay, this is for you. I mean, I didn't bring it for you, but that's my book. I wrote the little book on the rosary. Oh. Yeah, come on. It just happened to be there as a props. Oh yeah. Oh, okay, Jesus. I see you. Yeah, of course. Thank you. Yeah, beautiful. Are there a bunch of

like young Buddhist people out there that you could like help? Of course. Yes. Have you noticed that in the comments or? Yes, actually, I had a few people message me and they're like, hey, I, either they have the same experience where they're the only convert in their family or they're saying, I'm thinking of converting to Catholicism, but I don't know what to do. And there's a lot of fear there. So I realized, I was like, oh, yeah, okay, I should offer my own personal experience just so people, like, know what to do. I highly encourage it. This will be the best decision they'll ever make, but it's not easy. Yeah.

Yeah, because you'll get a lot of backlash from it. What are the biggest obstacles that Buddhist young people today, I guess, in families like yourself, maybe culturally Buddhist, would they get a lot of pushback from their families? Oh, yeah. I had friends who were disowned by their family when they became Catholic. So they're like in, they're no longer in contact with their parents. Most of them are very strict about it. Actually, they do not, they're not happy when their kids, it feels like a betrayal for their dishonor. Yeah, I get that.

Yeah. I get that. Yeah. Is it something about Catholicism in particular that's offensive? I don't think so. I think it's just abandoning our traditions. Yeah. Yeah, well, God bless you. That's really awesome.

What else you want to talk about is we wrap up? This has been really delightful. Thank you for sharing your lovely story. Of course. I don't know. Do you have any other questions? I don't know, probably. What the Lord and Mother Mary like for us to talk about? Well, was it weird to adopt the rosary after you were probably using prayer beads in a different context? Or were you not using prayer beads? I had prayer beads, but it's the same where we would just say the Buddha's name as we, you know, meditate on it.

But I, the rosary just seemed like something completely different to me. I had heard people calling Mother Mary Mama and they pray the rosary, but I didn't really understand it. Because I was like, I came for Jesus. I don't really understand the saints either. Yeah. And I don't understand Mother Mary. I was like, I understand she's the mother of God. I was like, but, you know, I don't think I need to talk to her.

Yeah. I felt that way. I didn't have any hatred towards her. Right. But. I don't know if you do need to talk to her, but. Oh, I think we need to. It's kind of beautiful.

Yeah. because she offers graces that the Lord gives to her that you can only receive through her is what I was learning. Okay. So, but I had never heard of anyone speak of her in such a beautiful way that she looks at us as if, like, we were her newborn child. That's like how much love she has for us. I was like, she loves me that much. I had no idea. So I had- Gabby's book on the Rosary.

Have you read that? No. I know you don't like to read, you said. Yeah, but I've been asking the Lord. I was like, grant me the virtue of being studious. Yeah, that's a good prayer. It's on audible and it's excellent. I think it's called the power of the rosary.

And I'm shocked at how good it is. Yeah, people should definitely. No, that's just kind of been coming up to me a lot. And I think I need to read. There was a reason that my phone got factory reset, you know, because I told the Lord, I was like, this is a distraction for me. And I just, and sure, the only thing I mostly consume is Catholic content, but it wasn't edifying.

It was just to fill in this empty space. So I kind of learned I was like, I need to put my hands on something. I need to turn pages. Yeah. So I would probably try reading more books and I'm kind of hearing it often. So I think the Lord's kind of nagging me.

He's like, come on, girl. Get into it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What else do I? I don't know if I have a lot more to ask. If you have more to share, you're welcome.

But it's just really beautiful for you to share that. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Man, I don't know what else I could bring up. Let's see. Holy Spirit, what do you want? Are you still in touch with these sweet old Vietnamese women who prayed for you back in the day?

So no. They're all married. They're very busy. They have their own families to take care of. Do they know about your story? Have you gone back and shared what's going on with you? Well, they were there during the time where I was discerning if I wanted to be Catholic and they knew I was Buddhist. I mean, you said you had this falling away and now you're,

kind of like trying to. The thing was some people who saw me again at church. They hadn't seen me in years. They're like, it's so good to see you. And they're like, I actually saw your video on YouTube. I was like, oh, did you now? I was like, that's a little embarrassing. But I was like, praise Jesus.

It's getting out there. So they said it was really good. But I really appreciated what they did for me because there was this personal encounter with the Lord that that's how I experienced them early on. And I was like, you know, a lot of Catholics either aren't open. into it or they don't know about it. So I would like to introduce that again.

So I haven't been able to really go into contact with them. They're just busy. They live far away. But the Bible study group I'm with now, I was like, hey, you are with those Asian ladies. You're part of that movement. I want you to help me and mentor me. He's like, sure. So we've been trying to incorporate personal prayer for people.

I was like, yo, I don't have these gifts. I got the charism of talking a lot, right? I was like, but I don't see things. hear things like y'all do. He's like, don't matter. Just see how the Holy Spirit works with you. And it happens, you know, when you're open to the Lord like that, there were so many people that we prayed over. I have no idea what I'm saying, what I'm thinking, and they all just end up crying. So it's a very healing experience. And there was like a cool story that happened recently two, a few weeks ago. When I asked for that gift, I was like, can you pray over me? I need prayers.

So they prayed over me. And they're like, man, they're like, girl, you got so many friends. I was like, what do you mean? I was like, oh, you're very well protected. There's like a light shining over you and I see it. And they didn't know this. But every single night, I would name out all of the angels and the saints that I could remember to pray for me before I go to sleep. I asked for them to protect the things that I see and that I feel and to guide me.

And I said, I want to become better friends with you. So I just named all of them. I was like, I don't know who to name. I was like, I just want a bunch of friends. But I did that in secret. So when they said there's like, there's so many saints around you. And they're like, what are you waiting for? Over and over, they were saying, the Lord saying, do not be afraid.

Like, go in. There's like a big waterfall that we see. And you're just standing there. And at the end of the waterfalls, like all of God's light and goodness and love, pretty much sainthood. It's like, you're right there. You're just scared to jump. So why don't you do it? So I was like, oh, that makes perfect sense.

Because I don't know if I can mention this. I don't know how much time we have left. But as I decided to be a disciple of the Lord and go full out on YouTube, I was getting this nagging thing in my head that I had to go to adoration and confession for where I didn't grow up knowing the Pope, any of the popes. So I didn't have any knowledge of them. So Pope Leo is actually the first Holy Father that I'm growing up with and I'm growing fond of. But I felt this nagging thing in my heart. It's like, hey, you should reach out to him. To Pope Leo?

Yeah, to Pope Leo. Cool. So I didn't think about it. I didn't think of a formal letter or going to the Vatican or anything like that. But I was like, okay, why do I need to talk to him? Why would you want me to talk to him, Lord? And then a lot of things start being brought up. I got really into Mother Angelica and Venerable Foles and she, I just watched every, I love her.

I absolutely adore her. Yeah, I tell her to pray for me all the time. And I was so moved by her because I was like, she wasn't afraid. Right? She's just this Italian nun in the middle of nowhere saying what she wants to say because she loves Jesus so much. So I saw a lot of news of things happening that are very controversial in the church and I wasn't happy about it. I was like, we have shepherds that aren't shepherding. And I saw the Holy Sacrament, the Eucharist being desecrated and it broke my heart. I wept over that.

So I prayed and I prayed and it was about two weeks before I decided. I was like, you know, since I'm just like this dumb girl who says whatever she wants, let me just try to make a quick letter to Pope Leo. Okay. So I made a video and it was called Dear Pope Leo. Okay. And I prayed and I was like, how's this Jesus? I was like, you know, let me get out the way and you say whatever you want.

Okay. And that's what happened. And I said it was on my mind. And then so many people attacked me for it. A lot of Catholics. They were really, really upset. And I was like, man, maybe I'm not doing the right thing. Sorry.

Yeah, the internet's the place to be upset. It's a great place. If you want to be upset and angry internet. Yeah, because they thought I hated him. I was like, no, I'm trying to talk to this person. I was like, I'd love to meet him and talk with him because salvation is serious. And I was like, and I think, you know, we're called to love Jesus. And sometimes I think we always put him in the background and we assume he's just going to be mercy.

I was like, well, he's fully just and fully merciful. We're giving this idea that Jesus is just some hippie. I was like he's not. So he's the Lord. Yes. Sorry. No, go ahead. How do you view Buddhism now?

How do you view statues of Buddha when, I mean, it's in your house, but do you have any reaction to that or if you were to meet somebody who is Buddhist, would you want to talk to them? Of course. I mean, I openly wear my necklace that has the crucifix on it. Sometimes instead of like praying inside a temple, I'm holding my rosary. I want to show people like, I'm not Buddhist. I'm Catholic.

And I don't want to. I still go not because I want to be there, but because my mom needs me there for some kind of situation. Oh, to the temple? Yeah. Do people ever ask you why you're holding a rosary? No, they just assume it's prayer beads also. Yeah, but I look at it and I pray and I ask for the Lord to have mercy. I don't like it.

Now, it's just like now these statues are kind of freaky looking to me. Okay, yeah. And I don't want anything to do with them. Because I met a woman. She wasn't like a devout Buddhist, but she would go to temple. She was exposed to it. And she was possessed just by the exposure of it. So I was like there's something inherently, like there's something evil here that I don't agree with.

And they don't allow Jesus to be here. So I just try to constantly pray as I'm there. Yeah. Yeah. Are you still in touch with that woman who after the retreat in the coffee shop asked you if you wanted to experience something to begin? You were a Buddhist. I haven't seen her since. That was a long time ago.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Laura, this has been really beautiful. Thank you so much for taking the effort. Just coming on an airplane. Like, that's huge. Thanks for being here and sharing your story with us. No, thank you.

Thank you for having me. People want to learn more about you and get angry about your video to Pope Leo. Where would they go to get angry? Go to lay beloved. You'll see me. Stay in my peace because I love the Holy Father and I just want him to lead us to heaven. Beautiful. I will put links below so people can check your stuff out.

Thanks so much. All right. Thank you.