Pints With Aquinas - Getting Baptized, First Confession, and How Comedy Works w/ Shayne Smith

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

Shayne Smith is an American comedian. His specials, Prison for Wizards, Alligator Boys, and Banned From Karate, appear on Dry Bar Comedy. He is famously covered in tattoos - a reformed gang member - despite his mild manner and geeky appearance. Shayne is a friend of the show and we are so happy to have him back on! ⭐ Locals' supporters can ask questions here: https://mattfradd.locals.com/ 💵 Show Sponsors:  STRIVE 21: https://strive21.com/matt HALLOW: https://hallow.com/mattfradd EXODUS90: https://exodus90.com/matt  

Yeah, let's monetize our friendship. Yeah, you arrived today. I'm like, please don't talk to me. Don't talk to me until we click record. It's good to see you again. Do you so good to see you? A lot has changed since you were last here. Yeah, a lot has changed.

Thursday became your godfather somehow. Thursday became my godfather somehow. You didn't ask me. Yeah, you were't ask me. I'm just joking. Yeah, you were across the world. No, I'm joking. But I would have come, I think. I think I would have come.

I think you would have. It would have been a great time. So yeah, so for those who are kind of just new to this, you just became Catholic. I just became Catholic, yeah. Yeah, I feel like people were waiting in the wings to see if it would really happen. There were a lot of people who were like, come on, this is like some kind of elaborate prank, right?

Like truly genuinely thought it was a prank from the last interview from the last interview. Yes. Like secular people or people who are fans of me were like, okay, well this is like an art piece. And then when I posted that I'd become baptized and they messaged me like, Oh my, I couldn't believe it. And I was like, what do you mean you couldn't believe it? I cried. You know what I mean? You think I would choose to do that in public?

That's humiliating. Yeah, what was the reaction? Cause that was really your coming out when you were on that show. Yeah, that was the big coming out because I had been pursuing Catholicism for a year. You know, of course the intensity was ramping up as I got closer and closer to baptism

and I became more like strong in my faith and stuff, but that was the public like, if you're not close to me, you're not paying really close attention like, whoa, and it was horrific and also wildly positive at the same time. Why both of those saints? So I posted not even a clip or anything, just a screenshot of Shane Smith becomes Catholic

and it's you and I at the table and I lost about 10,000 followers. Are you kidding? In less than 24 hours. You were watching the numbers decrease. Yeah, and then I got like,, I'm not joking easily a thousand messages emails across all platforms of people Saying like, you know everything from death threats all the way to like your you know

You're supporting like one of the most evil organizations in the world. You're a horrible person I can't believe you'd betray me. A lot of people took it very personally. Like I became Catholic to personally slight them somehow and then of course I got like a few Protestant people being like this is the wrong path, you're doomed or whatever and but it was I got so much like, wildly evil pushback. Tell me about the death threats. Yeah. What is that like?

People just telling me like, I mean, I've gotten them before from jokes, but this was the most I've ever gotten in a small amount of time. From people who seemed like, I don't know, real, you know? A lot of the time it's from like a random account. So you're like, or a new account that's clearly made just for trolling. But a lot of these people were like real people who were like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna murder you over this. Like just

saying stuff that I can't even repeat here. Just the most wild stuff you can imagine, you know? And their grievances were like all over the place from like theological perspectives to like political and it was wild. I couldn't believe how negative it was, but also like it's so funny because they were also negative and so many people trying to dissuade me and argue with me and do all this stuff and it just ended up affirming my faith more. Yeah, you know, of course and then there's the incredibly positive We're like not only were Catholics so so so so supportive, but there was like an ecumenical Sort of sense where lots of Protestants and other people were incredibly positive even Muslims

Like some of my Muslim followers, like reached out and were really kind to me about the whole thing. So it was a wild sort of like the world is divided into these two camps. And these people came out and really showed me like what was going on in their heads and how they were going to treat me. And then these people sort of just affirmed everything I had already decided. You know, and as you say, they were all over the map you had Catholics Protestants exactly probably atheists happy Yeah, and then others maybe you have the same camps Catholic probably yeah, yeah, maybe you got some Catholics who are upset I don't know. I don't think so. I think most Catholics are pretty good

I saw like, you know, I got the odd comment here and there of someone being like this guy's grifting Yeah, which is so funny. Like yeah yeah I have plenty to gain in Hollywood from becoming Catholic I'm up there with such great says Mark Wahlberg and others I don't know mark it's not helping me man like it definitely not like some thing that I'm doing to try and get ahead. It would be so funny. That's a terrible strategy. You know, if I was going to grift, I don't know what I would do, but it wouldn't be becoming Catholic. How did you navigate that?

How did you navigate the negative and the positive? Did you get to a point where you're like, I just can't read this anymore? Yeah, I will. I took a lot of it personally or not personally, but there was so many like, um, not heresies, but just blast blasphemous things that I felt obligated to manage it. Like I'm not just going to let, you know, a hundred people comment something disgusting about the blessed mother or like just all these people saying wild stuff about the Pope or

Clergy or anything and I just just don't even want that stuff near so I did absorb all of it I did like do my absolute best to like monitor Thousands of negative comments which probably in the long run was not great for my mental health But again, it was faith-affirming. There was something about it like, oh, you're all so vile, like I can't, I'm onto something, definitely, you know? And so, and then as I was doing that, the positivity, normally how it goes online is you absorb

10 negative comments, every one positive. And that one positive is usually really beautiful and well thought out. And when you think about it, you're like, this person's taking time out of their day to say something. positive and that one positive is usually really beautiful and well thought out and When you think about it like this person's taking time out of their day to say something It's also good and the evil comments so easy to just evil and you just throw it out into the world with no thought So the good comment should override the evil comments. That's not how it works You get ten good ones and that one evil one is up there But in this sense I was getting all these evil comments

But every positive comment from a Catholic cheering me on or whatever really like overrode them in a way And I was like what an interesting experience finally to be absorbing the good comments in such a way that I'm like Feeling really good. I think it was because there's like a brotherhood and a sisterhood in In a real feeling that they understand what I'm going through as opposed to normally someone's like four people are like, you're handsome and then one person says you're ugly and you go, I am ugly. I wonder why that is we do that. I don't know. People are very rude online and not even the most gratuitous disgusting things, but even

like the low level, it's not that bad thing. So I had Jordan Peterson on and someone just commented Jordan's face looks red. Like what? Yeah, no, it's not. If you were at his show and you got a chance to meet him, you wouldn't be like, hey, your face looks red. Bye. I think that I have a theory that anonymity plus an audience motivates people to be insane.

It really triggers something in your head. If you take one of them away, the anonymity or the audience. Oh that's good. You know what I mean? Yeah I have. I have. Yeah. Because personally people don't do that, you know. Yeah, and if they got your email they may not just write you a one line, you're stupid. Exactly. No one's gonna, or like in real life, you know, but when there's an audience, it's a whole thing So I don't know. I think that that that uh, that's how that works, but I could be off. I'm no philosopher Yeah, but it has been a whole situation with The negativity online that's been incredible, but it has weaned off

You know these people they don't stick with whatever. There were people who were harassing me like every day for like weeks. And then eventually they just give up. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that, you know, we're communal beings, we're meant to live in community. And in a way, it's more important to know if you've stepped out of line than if you're doing the right thing. Yeah. Because you want to exist within your community and not be ostracized.

I suppose. So when someone says you're doing a right thing. Yeah. Because you want to exist within your community and not be ostracized. I suppose. And so when someone says you're doing a great job, that means something, hopefully, and hopefully you take it on board. Although often what I do is I'm like, yeah, whatever, you're just lying. Yeah, that's what I- They're basically saying something vile.

I'm like, that is the truest thing anyone's ever said clearly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a universal experience. Everyone experiences that. Even people like Matt Walsh, who I've spoken to and others, like he's a lot more disagreeable than I am.

Whenever I'm quite agreeable, whenever I took to Matt Walsh, I always feel way too enthusiastic. Really? Yeah, and I'm just talking like this. He does have a lacrimose sort of like tone to his voice, very just like, oh yeah. Like, so, you know, a sing songy, Unimpressed sort of voice some people just have that I also feel too excited all the time Yeah

I feel like sometimes I have I get out of a situation and I go way too much energy Way too much energy for that or I feel like people are awkward like that I've just seemed too excited to see them like they think that I'm Being inauthentic or trying to please them and I'm like, no, I just seem too excited to see them. Like they think that I'm being inauthentic or trying to please them. And I'm like, no, I just genuinely love my friends. Yeah. You know, or you like that with strangers who come up to meet you as well? No, not always. But I think I'm very polite. Yeah, you are. I've had people be like, oh, you're especially polite as compared to X,

Y or Z person I've come across in public. So I think if someone ever said that to me, I'd immediately defend X, Y, or Z person I've come across in public. So I think if someone ever said that to me, I'd immediately defend X, Y, and Z. That's my thing too, where I'm like, what were they eating? What were they doing? Exactly. Or they're tired. But I don't give myself that excuse.

If I was short with someone because I was tired, I would think about it for a month. Yeah. So. But I mean, even like we were just at the coffee shop and someone came up to say hi to you because they're a fan. Yeah.

That's that's a story now. So whenever someone says, do you know, Shane Smith, he has a story that he's going to tell. Right. But, you know, you could have been feeling ill, you know, you any could have been going, you could have been in a rush. I try to push through every time and just be like as polite as possible. I do think that that's the thing where, like when you're dating, they're like, say, never text a girl something that wouldn't look good in a screenshot because she could like post it online. Right. So it's just like everything you say, make sure you're it holds

yourself accountable. You know, definitely. Yeah, it's a different day and age. It's crazy to think that I dated. I don't even know if I had a cell phone when I started it or I did but it was it was the flip oh yeah the sidekick or whatever or the razor the t-mobile razor I had one of those was indestructible it was funny do you ever watch that show 24 yeah yeah yeah they must have been advertising Verizon or whatever because they had that flip phone oh yeah and it's like that's the cutting-edge technology that CSU is using. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I love that and then he flips it like a gun all the time and you're like, ooh

I gotta get one of those that part of your memory addictive that show was no I watched some of it that I'm that show never got that era of TV didn't get me people were like you got to watch Lost and I watched the first season and I was like uninteresting to me. Yeah, it's funny I tried to go back and watch the first couple of episodes and I found myself bored. Of Lost or 24? Of Lost. I don't know if it's because I've already watched it back in 2006. I don't know if it's because TV has changed so much that it's less interesting to me. I'm not sure. I don't know if the acting holds up either. Well what did you get into TV shows that you were like,

I love this show and can't stop watching it? I did that with funny shows. The first like seasons two through 11 of The Simpsons, I rewatch every year. 30 Rock, big fan of that show. I like absurd shows. I watch The Muppet Show all the time. I like everything to do with The Muppets. They're the best.

There are certain shows that I think are objectively good that I can rewatch and then others that I think are objectively good that I can't rewatch. So for example, like Seinfeld is a very funny show. Agreed. Obviously has a lot of immoral content in it and you got to sift through it. Sometimes it's really disappointing and maybe there's an argument for why you shouldn't watch that at all. Whatever.

Sure. But the point is if I tried to watch it and I go, Oh, yeah, I've seen it. I've already, I don't know why. Yeah, I find Seinfeld be very funny. I've I feel that way about 30 or not 30 Rock the office is very funny and rewatchable Yes, I've been rewatching the office recently and I was like, wow, it's really holds up. Yeah Seinfeld is like that. I heard this argument I can't remember where I heard it I think someone from the clergy made it where they were like it's actually less

immoral to watch a show like always sunny in Philadelphia than a show like friends because a show like friends is written in such a way that it's just comfy. You watch it and it's showing you this immoral behavior and stuff and it just feels normal. Yeah, it feels very normal. Whereas a show like Always Sunny, which is vastly more offensive, vastly more blasphemous in many ways, is overtly telling you, these are bad people,

these are jokes, this is bad. This is funny because these people are bad and the situation is bad and what they do is bad. That's interesting. So it's almost like the immorality of Friends is that it's written badly and there are no jokes as opposed to a show that is magnitudes worse on surface level, but morally you understand as you watch it. Oh, this is all bad behavior. So what is really worse for you? That's interesting. I liked, I always thought that was interesting because I've never liked friends.

I think it's unfunny. So. I grew up with friends, unfortunately. And I would say there was a few episodes that I think are actually brilliant. There's, I don't know if you've seen it since you didn't maybe watch it much, but the one where no one's ready.

So Ross has this speech he's got to give and the entire episode takes place within Monica and Rachel's apartment. Oh, okay, yeah. And there's very, almost no kind of sexual humor in this particular episode. And I thought that was extremely funny. But you know, it's hard to know.

Am I just being nostalgic? Yeah. Is that what I appreciate? Cause I watched this as a kid. If I watched it now, would I find it funny? I don't know. I thought Chandler was really hilarious. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I guess I just never watched the show as a kid. It didn't do anything for me. Yeah. And I was never interested in like, I don't know. I think you have to be interested in the romance parts of the show too, cause it's a comfy show. There are funny shows that are comfortable and

there are funny shows that are more funny and they slide on the scale. Like the office is perfectly in the middle It's perfectly comfy perfectly funny Whereas Seinfeld is much funnier than it is comfortable or show like the Big Bang Theory is way more comfortable than it is funny by any Stretch of the imagination so whatever when you're watching it It's giving you a different experience like if I think people who watch the Big Bang are more interested in being sort of like Almost soothed. Like they're just with their friends

and it's very relaxed and chill. Maybe I'm not laughing out loud, but the vibes are great. I've never thought of that, it's a great point. Whereas I watch Seinfeld and the vibes aren't very good, but there are jokes, you know? And so those are the different, I like shows with jokes, but I feel like some shows like The Office or The Muppets,

they like, they ride the line perfectly. I don't think I've ever watched The Muppets. Really? Yeah. Is that a kid's show? Forgive me. It's half kids, half adults, but it's really absurd. You have to like absurd humor.

You have to be willing to like see a puppet frog sword fight a guy. You know what I mean? Like it's very silly. I don't know if I've ever been ready for that, but we'll see. Yeah, Muppet Treasure Island's an all-time great. Yeah, like top 10 movies ever in my opinion. I love it The people are always surprised to hear this and I'm like one of my greatest comedic influences is the Muppets Frasier was good. I watched a bunch of Frasier as a kid and I have no idea why clever

I don't think I got it. Yeah. I think it was just on at 11. Yeah. After the Simpsons or something. I like King of the Hill. Oh yeah, King of the Hill is good. And one of the reasons I, cause I only got into King of the Hill like two years ago, someone told me about it

cause I'm just old and out of touch. Oh, okay. So I'm like, I wanna watch it. And I really found it just wholesome in many respects. I haven't seen the whole thing maybe. No, it's good. But what's the one thing I liked about it is I feel like the Simpsons and these other cartoons for adults are funny in

The way your friend is funny, but he's kind of sarcastic and biting and it's kind of exhausting to be around him Even though he's objectively funny sure. Yeah, and then you've got someone who's just kind of wholesomely funny That's yeah, I liked about King of the Hill. There was always this nice family message Yeah, though at least the ones I saw I find as I get older, the biting friend, the sarcastic friend, he gets less and less interesting over time where you're like, I love you, but I don't want to be exhausted.

I want to have a good time. I don't want to have to defend every movie I bring up. I don't want to have to like hear you be negative about everything. You know, I hate that key and peel skit where everything he'd say, I forget which character it was,

he's like, anyway. Yeah, yeah. Have a thought, have an original thought. They are very funny, Key and Peele. Yeah, they kill it. They're really good. The Nazi episode where they're pretending to be white. I haven't seen that.

Oh, they have a recurring bit where Nazis come to search their home in Nazi Germany and they like paint their faces white. So they look like white people and they're pretending to be white. And it's it's like insane. It's so I love anything that's so absurd that it goes out of reality and into silliness like Monty Python. Do you like that? It's OK.

See, I think there was a I think that was for a particular time. Yeah. We're being absurd and ironic was like this new idea. And yeah, yeah, it upset people's expectations. Don't get me wrong. There are objectively funny things within Monty Python. But when I watch it today, it just seems overly silly. Yeah, maybe it kind of gained steam in a stuffy culture where people were just tired of, I don't know,

pretending to have it all together. And then this burst on the scene and it was. Yeah, I think for me, like Steve Martin, like the the two smoking guns like Police Squad, you ever see that show back in the day? Police Squad is one of the all time greatest shows ever to me personally. And or like that kind of stuff. Mel Brooks, like those kind of comedies where it was silly, but still a little grounded in reality.

Young Frankenstein and stuff. Again, tons of immoral content, but at least they were silly in a way that was like they're doing physical humor. They're doing situations that aren't real. I love that kind of stuff. They just did a two part series on Apple TV about Steve Martin kind of celebrating his legacy. Yeah, yeah.

And it was between two parts. The first one was his origin and why he became so outrageously popular. Yeah. And then today. But watching his early stand up, I just thought I couldn't understand it. Yeah. Sure. If I was back then, it was amazing. But today I find it so stupid and cringy. A lot of people like classic stand up. I can't watch it. None of it hits for me.

I'm like, I can't watch it. None of it hits for me. I'm like, I don't mean by classic sand. Any like honestly stand up pre pre 2000s even for me. There's a lot of stuff I can't absorb almost any of it. And what is it about it? You can't observe. I don't know. But I feel like Seinfeld's evergreen.

Yeah. I think when you watch his stuff back in the day and he's talking about being a kid at Halloween and wearing those masks that are cutting into your eyeballs. Yeah, you gotta get the candy. Yeah. Yeah, I guess some of Seinfeld is good I'm not a huge Seinfeld guy, but I do like some of his stuff I guess some of it can be Mitch Hedberg is Like one of those guys from in those early eras early to late like the transition into modern that I think is really good But what is it because when I watch Steve Martin, I think

This is no offense to him. I just think it was a different time. No, I think so too even Robin Williams I'm not a huge fan of his stand-up. Okay, I understand that he's killing I mean he's in that like one one special where he's in the arena wearing the suspenders. Okay, and he's just like absolutely murdering for just like you know an incredible amount of people and he's just like absolutely murdering for just like, you know, an incredible amount of people. And he's like doing some he's clearly doing like a riff about being a trucker and like he's killing and I'm watching it being like this is this would bomb on TikTok. It doesn't look right to me. I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Because if you watch these guys back in the day and you watch them today, there's a shift that's taking place in them, too. Yeah, it's not like you didn't like him back then. You don't like him today. I mean, maybe that's the case. But I think of Steve Martin, I would imagine his stand up today, I would find a lot more relatable than back in the 70s. So what happened? And he did a newer stand up special that was really good.

I can't remember what it was called. He plays a banjo a bunch in it. So what is it about us that receives comedy differently? I guess is what I'm asking. What is it about the 70 stand-up comedy that when we watched, now we cringe and even they have transformed, deliver it in a way that we would receive today. I don't know.

I think contextually comedy is always based around what society is up to and how it feels And I just think that we're so far away from whatever mindset people in the 70s had yes, they were transitioning I think that society was in such a transitionary period in the 70s like in a way that like we can't grasp There's a special in America. It'd be like the explosion of the Beatles and how they were treated. Yeah, I tried doing that today They came out of a particular It would be like us trying to explain to people in the 70s how the internet was going to change society They would be like what are you saying to me right now like? Everyone's connected now

Every hobby is valid every interest has a community like this can't be possible This can't pot and you're like oh, it's not only is it possible. It's definitely not great. Yeah It's also not the worst either. That's the double-edged sword. Who's the? Bill Bill Burr is his name. Yeah, that's a guy headed guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah the red-headed gentleman I don't know if it was him or someone else, but they so they said they like comedians who make them feel like everything's OK. Maybe it wasn't him. I don't know. You know who it was? Who's that black comedian?

Bold, hilarious, lives in Ohio. Oh, Chappelle Chappelle. Yeah, I think we should tell who said that. And when he said that, I got it because again, maybe this goes back to the sarcastic biting friend versus the guy who just makes you feel calm. Yeah. when I when I watch like Brian Regan I feel like he's not about to make fun of somebody in a dirty way that makes me feel gross for enjoying it Yeah, I'm making fun of himself in a playful way and we see ourselves in him and we all kind of relax a little

I really like that. Yeah. Yeah you when you watch a comedian You're kind of like trusting him or her to like guide you into a place where you're going to enjoy yourself. That's sort of the fun part of like edgy comedy where you're scared that they're going to hurt you, but then it's funny. You're like, oh good. That was great. And I think that a lot of people nowadays, especially with crowd work, a lot of people

in the crowd are like, please don't be evil to this person. And a lot of the time they are And I'm like, what are you doing? They paid. That's right. That's the opposite of what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I just want to feel like it's gonna be okay. I hate that style of crowd work I've done crowd work in the past a lot and I don't do it anymore because I just don't have time my Like the way my style of comedy works I do like two stories in my hour set is over. But like I used to do crowd work and I always thought it was funniest to build someone up

no matter what they say, because people will just review. If you ask the right questions, they'll reveal to you like embarrassing things or their living situation, relationship situation. And it's very rarely ideal. We're not, None of us are living in the ideal life. And so I always like hearing someone's negative and then turning it into a positive. I think it's so funny. Everyone's gonna laugh anyway. And now these people are leaving

and they're like, that was so, that was good. We all feel good about this. Like once I was doing crowd work and there was this dude in the front row and he was by himself and I was like, you came To a comedy show by yourself. That's freaking awesome. I do love that I go to shows by myself and I was like, that's amazing

You know and I'm talking him up and I was like, what do you do for a living? And he was like I was like, what are you interested in? And he was like I'm mostly just interested in in an anime and I was like are you making it really? And then I was like talking to him trying to build him up and I was like What do you do for a living at the time and he was like, oh, I'm unemployed To just be like this is the coolest guy here. Yeah He is he just ladies he hangs out all day and watches cartoons. He's set to take care of you. He's on it Yeah, he's not trying to be someone is not exactly you know exactly what you're gonna get this man commits

He's gonna be there all day every day for you, and I was like building him It was really funny, but I was like Not making it easy for me man But that's the way to do it I think it's funnier to to positively build people up I did a roast battle once where I just complimented the other person cuz that was the and I ended up winning Yeah, cuz that was the classic of Norm MacDonald's roast of Seagate or Bob Seagate?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, where he said like nice things or whatever. I think that's a strategy that I didn't invent by any means, but I think it's very funny. Are people trying to do that more? I guess no, right? Most people who go to a roast go to a roast. No, no, roast battling is like incredibly common

and people are just saying meanest things. I don't know why anyone would subject themselves to that. Just read your YouTube comments. Isn't that grossed enough? It's insane. It's so popular because roasting got popular that like open micers and stuff started doing it. So then there's this like, you're like a guy who's like two years into your career.

You have, you know, you have no heat. You're not famous by any means. You're just doing your best and someone's like, do you want to come be humiliated? And of course you say yes because you just want stage time. any means you're just doing your best and someone's like do you want to come be humiliated and of course you say yes Because you just want stage time, but now you're writing jokes like the the reward to risk factor is not there at all Anytime someone asked me if they should do a roast. I'm like no Don't roast. What are you doing? Yeah? Yeah, but some people love it some people have have like this incredibly thick skin and I have thick skin

But I'm also not gonna subject myself to that. Yeah, I think I have like I have some semblance of like human dignity left in me Well, now you're a Catholic your use to self-roast is called confession But you're doing it to someone who loves you and wants to forgive you and you know, that's better I had my first confession. Tell me about yeah, I went to confession It was hilarious. So, um What did I got baptized like what two and two and a half months ago or whatever and so, um Recently I was like I'm gonna go to confession for my first time. I want to have this experience. I need it Whatever, so I'm nervous

Obviously, I've never confessed before and I'm like And so I'm like, before and I'm like and so I'm like, okay, I'm going to go. My parish doesn't have a box. Okay, my parish is a small parish in the suburbs. My priest is the sweetest guy. You just make an appointment coming to his office, right? I don't. I'm not about to do that. I don't, I'm not interested in doing that, so not yet anyway. And so I'm nervous. So I'm like, okay, I'm going gonna go to the main cathedral where they have like a confession line and they have multiple like boxes I'm gonna be behind the screen. I'm safe behind the screen. I'm going to confess

I'm gonna say my prayer of contrition. This is gonna be great. So I go I'm like kind of sitting there Adoration is happening and we're doing confession and I walk into the cathedral. It's beautiful whatever and I'm like kind of standing there, adoration is happening, and we're doing confession. And I walk into the cathedral, it's beautiful, whatever. And I'm like, kind of standing there awkwardly, like, do I knock on the door? Like, how does it? And this lady is like, oh, you're here for confession. And I was like, I am. And she's like, oh, good, good. And she's like, someone's in there. But when he comes out, you're next. And I was like, oh, boy. And so this guy comes out and it's like the booth, you know? So I opened the thinking I'm gonna it's just gonna be a little thing and I'm gonna sit behind the screen Just like in a movie and I open the door and there is a screen But it's just like kind of set up and then the father he's just sitting and we're just looking at each other

And so now I have the choice. This was a trap Yeah, so I could walk and kneel behind the screen or I could sit So I could walk and kneel behind the screen or I could sit Well great and so I just very awkwardly was like I can't just go on the screen now He saw him. I'm me, you know, and it just feels stupid So I was like all my best laid plans were were laid to rest and I just sat in front of him and was like Hello were laid to rest and I just sat in front of him and was like hello just like stared at the ground awkwardly and sadly and made my confession um said my prayer of contrition and he was so sweet and like really loving and like thanked me for being honest and coming to confession and encouraged me

to come back and it was like a really beautiful experience and then also it was great because they have mass directly after a confession at that cathedral. So I confess and then immediately received the Eucharist. And I was like, this is beautiful. My faith is incredible. I love this. And but yeah, it was so funny to think I was going to be secretly behind a screen and kind of like feel a little safer

for my first confession. And then he was like, pop a squat. Let's have a chat. And I was just like, no, I can't believe. Now you have an interesting experience that a lot of converts don't because a lot of people were baptized as babies. Right. And then they get confirmed and then maybe they go to confession and there's a lot to confess. Whereas you were baptized. So you don't have to confess any of the stuff that took place up until your baptism

I know did you still kind of want to know good? No, I felt my baptism was An incredible experience. I feel please tell me about so good about it. So yeah, it was great Thursday flew down we hung out went and pot guns and like Prowled around got tattooed went and saw the Mormon temple or you sent me that photo of Thursday just carrying a shotgun through yeah yeah yeah oh it's very funny so we had a great time yeah and getting tattooed was fun but then um, we went to the Easter vigil and it was great my parish Baptized I can't remember 12 people or something And then confirmed a few others you go through our CIA with these folks

I went through half of our CIA with them and half in New York. Did they know who you were? I guess they knew who I was very well. Yes Yeah, the deacon and his wife at my parish ran the R C I A and like I didn't miss. I don't think I missed one. I think I missed one R C I A in the entirety of the year I went. So. Were there people there who knew of you from your comedy, but didn't realize you were getting baptized or no? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then I started going to this men's group too. Um,

and then some people from the men's group came and like brought me a gift and like so many kind people truly like the best experience. Uh, the Salt Lake Catholic community is incredible. Seek should definitely be there. They're like, they're correct to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, but, yeah, the my baptism was wild. It was such a good experience. And did you how did you prepare for it? You mean like internally, internally?

You know what? I thought like, OK, I'm going to have to do all this. Like it's this very serious thing. I'm going to be like so deep in prayer and like really, really crazy about this. And I wasn't. I was just kind of like, well here it is. Like I'm just gonna receive these gifts. Like what an incredible time. And I just really like enjoyed the time with my friends and family and then got baptized.

And so I even invited like some of my secular family who didn't understand what was going on or how it was happening and stuff. came through for me, so that was fun But yeah, yeah, it was good, and I the feeling of being baptized was definitely like wild especially considering I had so much that I was Didn't you don't realize how much you're holding on to till you confess or till you're baptized. You know there's like a on to till you confess or till you're baptized. You know, there's like a weight on you from the sins of your past or whatever

that if you can't let go, but someone else, it's almost like God, it's like you're holding on. You know, like a kid is holding on. You know what a better, more comedic effect would be? You know when a dog has something in its mouth and it won't let it go and you're like, let it go. And you're like trying to shake your dog's mouth. It's all gross and he's like And then it falls out and you're like there it is. He ate a Lego that was God with me and my sin just

Let it go and I'm just a gross dog trying to eat a Lego But the Legos out and I feel great man. No need to go to the vet. That is Yeah, I know sometimes when you have those objectively profound Experiences or profound events there can be a pressure to sort of Manufacture within yourself how you think you should be feeling. Yes as opposed to just receiving whatever comes I am Tuned into that I'm incredibly fortunate to have thought that same thought and so as baptism was approaching I kind of thought to myself no don't don't like make it more than it needs to it's enough And so I just really enjoyed the time we hung out like it was really casual

I was like I remember at one point it was like Like 6 p.m Like way before like two and a half hours before we were supposed to meet at the parish and I was just kind of like, huh? I'm about to get baptized in like three hours. I'll be sinless You know and we were just like kind of joking about it goofing off like playing video games like Yeah, it was great. And then it allowed me to just be in the experience. I just cried the whole time It's like a two-hour service. I was just crying the whole time Yeah, it was weird, but it was great

It was yeah, it was so beautiful and then you know to I had never experienced the service before So there's like the candles and everyone being together and my parish was like jam-packed like there were people just standing So I was like this is this is great people just standing. So I was like, this is, this is great. It felt awesome. And apparently the diocese of salt lake baptized like a record number of people that year. So yeah, it's been awesome. And how was receiving Eucharist for the first time? Crazy. That was like, uh, being baptized was like a, this feels beautiful and sort of over time,

I kind of felt that weight lifted off me but the Eucharist was like you are feeling something right now this is physically happening to you you are like you know receiving the host it was and it's something I'd looked forward to and kind of imagined and you see it in popular media and I've watched you and other people I look up to and like wanted to participate in mass fully so getting to receive was like I don't know. It was just weird like I went and sat afterwards in the pew in it and I was just like Washed over with this like incredible feeling that was like again. I'm already crying the whole time So don't I don't really know where the emotion is coming or going but it was incredible. I felt every time I take the Eucharist

I sort of like really take time to like this is what's happening. This is thousands of years of tradition This is you know The life's work of the priest to even be able to consecrate that like I'm thinking about Every step that had to happen for me to get to this point and I'm always really conscious of it and it like makes it special every time I try to really meditate on that you know not just the fact that Christ dies for you and now the host is available and you're receiving this grace and how it makes you feel but like truly everything like the people who built this church the thousands of years of like martyrs

and people sacrificing in order for us to get here, all the hardships. Maybe the convents who made the hosts themselves. Right, yeah, like everything. And then the life's work of the priest, like how difficult seminary is. The fact that often in America, like our priests are from another, like they came all the way from

X Y & Z place and studied just so they could consecrate this and now they're sharing that with me It's like this whole thing where I'm like, this is very beautiful, you know, and so It's been awesome. Have you had people reach out for advice on their own journey? I'm sure. Yes. So, first it was like lose 10,000 followers. Death threats, crazy people saying the most vile things you can imagine, lots of people. Some people who I was acquaintances with being like,

you've betrayed me, this is the wrong decision, attacking me, and then lots of positivity. And then I started to gain followers back and A lot of them were Christian or people who were discerning religion and then over time it sort of became this thing where? Now a lot of the religious messages I receive are people Discerning religion or having questions and then over time people who in the past have been And then over time people who in the past have been

Vile to me or I've fallen out with or people who even criticized me when I first converted are now like Apologizing and being like well, can I ask you a question? And so I've been like Pretty deep in kind of almost doing apologetics for like a crazy amount of people I've thought about making videos about just some simple questions like the amount of people who have just asked me like How you're a rational person? How can you believe in God from a rational standpoint? Yeah, and I think there are lots of good reasons to believe in God from a rational standpoint I mean beginning with just like the Big Bang the universe has a beginning which means there wasn't always Material in the world. So that must insinuate an immaterial start to the material world.

And that's a pretty good argument. Like you tell that to someone and they go, huh? You know, and then they have to science of the gaps to fill the space. Yeah. You know, which then, of course, we could go out of the gaps of space. But it's interesting. So I've been answering a lot of those questions and then a lot of theological questions too, which has been interesting. And then every once in a while, I'll get a Protestant follower or friend who's like, let me ask you a question about saints or Mary or what's the deal with icons or things like that. So it's it's made me have to like up my my apologetic ability, really. The less we see each other as a threat, the more open we are to dialoguing with each other.

Right. So, you know, Catholics and Protestants have been separated for 500 years. We use language differently. Often it feels like Protestants are trying to misunderstand what we mean when we say things, and I'm sure vice versa, where it's almost like the Protestant might say to the Catholic, you just read an apologetic point from your Catholic apologetic book 15 years ago, and you haven't even bothered to actually dialogue with a real Protestant

about what we mean when we say this, right? Yeah. The point is, when we can just not be a threat to each other, we can say, well, what do you mean by it? And yeah, another thing I try to do when I am dialoguing with Protestants is make it clear that if yes, I want you to become Catholic as opposed to pretending I don't. Yeah, I do that same thing. I dialogue with a lot of people who are like, you become Catholic, but I understand that if you don't do that, like, I love you. And like, especially if people would be in friends with, you know, know in the past I've done that with Catholicism to my like to my religious brothers and sisters who aren't Catholic and I've done that in terms of just Christianity with people who dialogue with me who are like well I'm like of course I think I'm right and I want you to take part in this you know and I make

that very clear I think that helps people a lot where you're just like overtly like yeah yeah, obviously, this is working great for me. I feel amazing. There are like physical, mental, and emotional benefits to this that aren't even spiritual. So like, come on in, the water's great, but I'll answer your questions too.

So that's been good. But yeah, the amount of apologetics I've done, but I have felt really great about the ecumenical sort of Brotherly love I've received a lot of Protestants really have been incredibly positive and like super cool about it No, and so I like that. I think that especially in our modern times There's it's such a way that like there's clearly a shift between family-oriented people and people who are just kinda like doing something else. Paganism?

I don't know. Yeah, and so it's negative and not great. And I think a lot of people are kinda like, do you know, so many people, a lot of people reach out to me and been like, wait, so you don't watch porn? That's a huge one. Where they're like, how?

And I'm like, oh, that's beautiful. And then my response is always like, the fact that you're asking me how I don't tells me you have a problem. And then they're always like, wow, I guess I do. You know, and then I'm like, yeah, you do. It's really bad for you. Because I've, you know, I really bad for you because I've you know

I've been pretty unapologetic about talking publicly about like oh, yeah, I've like de-sexualized my Instagram. I still Follow or I'm friends with people who are like In the business of being lewd or whatever like I'm not going to just cut these people out of my life I want to be there for them And I've answered some of their questions and I think I've helped some of them in a big way. But I also am not gonna consume their content and stuff. So while I want to do things like be in the world

but not of the world, I definitely also have like muted and like done my best to like maintain my own personal boundaries. And I think that's been so good for my brain that when I talk about it, other dudes are like, huh, really? And I'm like, yeah, it's awesome. You're gonna rewire your brain and feel so much,

it's gonna make your relationship better. If you're married and you're gonna, if someone posts bikini photos even on Instagram, mute them immediately. Mute everybody who does anything like that and watch how much better it makes you feel about your wife. It really will. Like, and so I've preached that

and a lot of people have been like, wow, it's really working, which has been really cool. So even just small lifestyle changes like that, like giving people a taste of the Christian life and then being like, and look at the fruits of this logically. How much better you're gonna feel about women and see women in your relationships with people are gonna change and rewire your own brain.

And that's just from a logical standpoint. Now come over here and see all the other stuff we have to offer that's gonna make your life more fulfilling and better. So I think that's the strategy for me lately. So it's been good, but I really have like a lot of my online presence nowadays has been spent just ask answering people's questions. I feel like Americans in particular really do not like to be told what to do.

I've just spent the last five months in Austria and Austria is a very rule abiding country with rule abiding people. Yeah. If you're at a coffee shop and you've got to shoe up on a seat, someone will say, hey, take your foot off the seat. And people do that. And of course, the only one with the foot up of the seat is me, not the Austrians, because they know no savage person would do that.

And I feel like if you said anything, even that gently in America, there's like this, maybe it says, I don't know what it is. And maybe I'm wrong. Mind your business. Yeah, mind your business. So we're like, I'm going to put both of them up now, like this rebelliousness. So I'm wrong. Business. Yeah. Mind your business. So we're like, I'm going to put both of them up now. Like this rebelliousness. Yeah.

So I almost feel like going out and saying, and maybe that's true of all humans, right? We're all rebellious to a point. But saying to people, don't look at porn. It's almost more convincing to be like, hey, I used to look at porn and decided not to in my life so much better. And have them with their guard down now ask you how did you do that? Yeah, there's Americans have like a rugged individualism that defines us in a weird way.

And so you have to trick us. You really do. And I think that humans are the individualism in America. I think it's a negative. I do think it's a negative self-sufficiency and individualism Don't have to be the same thing. You can be self-sufficient counted on unique unrepeatable and

wonderful without being Individualistic I think that the fact that we've married the two things is deeply bad for society And so I do try to communicate that to people where I'm like, one of the biggest, best parts of the Christian life is no longer being an individual, giving up, like letting it go. God is just like, let it go.

Like sometimes I just have problems and I'm like, God, I do not have this under control. Help me. You know, and then, but you need to extend that to the church in the community, like your brothers and sisters. You need to be able to like reach out to someone, your priest or a friend or the men's group you go to or whatever and be like, I do not have this.

Help me, you know? So it's really, that's a good part, but for Americans, that's so difficult. I feel like the tide is changing and I can't tell if it's because of who I hang out with and the content I watch, whether this is actually the case or not. But it felt like when I grew up in the late 80s and throughout the 90s, that porn was cool. Yeah. And if you didn't like porn, you were the problem. You were frigid and uptight and something may be wrong with you.

And of course, this comes from Kinsey and all the propaganda. But I'm seeing that today people who are like, yeah, I'd rather not masturbate to pictures of women pretending to like me. Now, that seems like the cool thing. And I think it was always the cool thing, of course. Of course. What happened? What do you see that? Yeah, I do. I think that there's there where we just redefined porn.

Sorry to interrupt you, but you know, because you watch Netflix today and it's absolutely pornographic in a lot of their shows. So maybe we just redefined what we mean by. I think it's that there was a glamour like a sort of like you were the Heffners and stuff. And there was a sort of I think that there were people in third wave feminism as it began to America. Cause remember second wave feminism was anti-porn.

They were like sort of like, how was this empowering to women? Okay. Like go be a scientist. What are you doing? And then third wave feminism was kind of like anything a woman chooses is empowering or whatever. And then they were very pro sex work, which is the term they use which is a Weird term. Yeah, you know, but it makes it sound like you're you're working. Yeah, I don't know You're clocking in at the sex factory or whatever. So but like I it's a whole thing. And so I just I don't know I Went third-wave feminism did that. And then second way feminism,

but the whole idea is that there was a glamour and then that sheen has been removed because the internet is too good. We can all just see the reality. You can just be like, Oh, that woman's not living some like posh lifestyle where she's well respected and everything's going great. She's just kind of like a girl who's doing her thing and it's like not. She's wounded, she's hurt. Yeah, it's like bad or just like watching people be like,

I have OnlyFans and you're like, why? And they're like, cause I couldn't pay my bills and you're like, that is really bad. It's the worst situation. Like, and I think we see that and all of us are kind of like, oh, I don't want to participate in this is kind of gross. Yeah. Well, even other things, not just pornography, but I feel like it's kind of cool to save sexual marriage now. Or even like Jordan Peterson in his book, his latest book, he kind of condemns cohabitation.

Yeah. What? Yeah. Like we were saying that you can't just come here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, exactly this ride the wave Yeah, or whatever. Yeah, that kind of stuff is so fun again. I might be so out of it, right? That's my thing is I'm trying to be like over the past year. I've done So much to take a wildly secular life where I was sort of like everything is permitted Based on just like if people think it's good for them. And over time, like, you know, you're online, you're trying to change your online presence, you're trying to change what you consume.

It's just incredibly lengthy process. And now I'm like, am I in a touch? Did I like detach myself so much that I don't understand what's going on? Because to me as well, online, like it does seem like so many people are so interested in like chastity and in like being kind and and all these other like you know opinions that are from Christian life that I'm like what is going on yeah you know I'll post about well I guess it's like when degeneracy reaches a peak it's now cool to be counted degenerate maybe. Yeah, I mean, that would be what happened

with punk rock and straight edge. Where like punk rock was sort of like, do drugs, don't participate in society, opt out of society. And then, you know, hardcore and straight edge came along and we're like, actually you're not doing anything except for killing yourself. So what if we opted into society, but actually tried to be good and like took care of ourselves

And like we're actually there for our friends and family You know which is but like maintained the spirit of punk rock Yeah, which I think is like something that people nowadays are doing. I think younger people are like It's clearly the more masculine Thing 100% I mean think of the man who gives into porn all the time and then the man who's striving to be free of it. Maybe he occasionally falls, but he gets up and does his real dandas to be out of it. One guy, all that's required of him over here is to give in, just give in to the passions that are whipping you and driving you around. Whereas the other guy has to grow in humility, moral courage, respect of himself and others, how he uses his time, what he replaces that behavior with.

Like you're actually great. It's the difference between the couch potato who never works out and the guy who works out because even though he doesn't want to, who cares? It's not about that. Yeah. You know, like one takes actual effort. One requires giving in. It's true. Giving in is not attractive. No, no, it's not about that. Yeah. You know, like one takes actual effort. One requires giving in. It's true. Giving in is not attractive. No, no, it's not.

An effeminate man will never deny himself. So that's just like- That's a great line. Yeah, yeah. So that's just how it works. You know, to deny yourself is masculine for sure. And I think a womanly trait is to deny others. Does that make sense? So like, like it's a womanly trait to be like,

I'm actually in charge. I'm not going to do what you say because women make themselves small so often. And that's why, like, I think men just give into their pleasures all the time and women are, are sort of like in this weird position where they make themselves small and just like do what men say or whatever. I think it's a very womanly trait. I think it depends on the situation.

Like if a woman is being tyrannized and bossed around, then I think it is feminine and because it just means virtue, I guess, to stand up and to repel that. But when a woman is in a loving relationship with a man, she gives herself over to him and submits to him in a healthy sense. A mutual submission, of course, because he's like, I'll put you first. I'll always take care of you. Think of the embrace. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like you're dating right now. Have you done, mommy, just saying that? No, no, for sure. But I mean, you probably don't daydream about her embracing you. If you daydream, it's probably about you're the one giving the embrace. Yes. And if she's daydreaming, she's not like, I just want to hold Shane in my arms. Even in our physicality. Yeah.

The woman wishes to give herself over to the strength and the strength, I think, wishes to protect and for sure, for sure. I was more saying like a single woman, like a man who's like, I would like we should hook up. And she says, no, yeah, this is my boundary. I think that's very womanly, which is funny because I remember a woman saying like even my sins are masculine and she was talking about Fornicating and yeah porn. Yeah. Yeah, there's a sense in which that is extra shameful Like there's a sense in which you tell me what you think cuz I'm thinking this through. Okay Yeah, I might be wrong. And so I'm open to push back here. But um

When a when a woman looks at pornography, a woman is fornicating. I think that is more of a masculine sin. Sure. And you might say, well, the shame is there because we just haven't acknowledged that this is everywhere already. Yeah. You might say the shame is there because it's particularly shameful for a woman to do this. And I think that's probably true. I think maybe both are true. Like a masculine sin might be some sort of passivity at the expense of others. And in that, maybe he would say that's a feminine sin.

I'm not sure. Yeah, I think that there's, we run into like a space. We're probably, he goes, sorry. I want to try to express myself well because I'm afraid I'm not. I feel like I also agree with you and I'm like, how do I express this thing? If I came into work every day and I was kind of emotional

and I'd cry and I'd run to the bathroom and Thurston's like, dude, are you okay? Yeah, yeah. That's just saying, like if a woman did that, you'd be like, it's not good. Like a mature, virtuous woman shouldn't be doing that, but that seems more of a feminine trait gone bad. For sure. Than a masculine trait gone bad. Like that's all the worst if a man is doing that, but that seems more of a feminine trait gone bad. For sure.

That a masculine trait gone bad. Like that's all the worst if a man is doing that. If you come in and punch a wall, it's like, that's not great, but that does register. Better than crying in the bathroom saying, you don't care about me Thursday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that we run into this space where it's like you think, we call like a woman watching pornography or fornicating masculine and that insinuates like an extra negative Connotation towards masculinity, but that's not really what we mean We just mean that when you do something that's out of character with the natural law

Or where we feel you should be, it feels extra shameful. Just like, I feel like if a man is cowardly, he feels like it's feminine. That's not to say that there's anything feminine to do with cowardness. There's not, women give birth, they're not cowards. They're the exact opposite, in fact. They'll put themselves in front of someone

and be destroyed for their children. Exactly, there's nothing cowardly about a woman or femininity, but because it's contrary to our nature, we define it as feminine because femininity is not our nature. We are far away from the divine feminine. And so you associate cowardness with that and it feels extra wrong.

That's like a sin for a man that's like extra bad. And I feel like it's the same thing when a woman is like extra promiscuous or whatever and she's like she feels guilty because not only is it a sin, but it feels masculine. It just feels out of step with natural law. I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I even think I've stopped saying effeminate, because often the behavior that we're condemning in a man is also shameful

and a woman. Yeah. So I've started to say either like it's kind of cream puffery for unmasculine, something like that. Yeah. Pathetic. Yeah. I don't know if I ever told you this, but I used to go to strip clubs when I was 16 and 17 because I sucked. OK. And me and my friends, we knew both, by the way, me and my friends would be standing outside,

plucking up the courage to try to get in without having our IDs checked. And I remember one friend would never come in with us. And he wasn't preachy about it. He I think he said something like what I said before. It's like, no, it's I'll meet you here afterwards. I just I don't think I'm better than you. I just don't think it's a manly thing to have to pay women money to pretend to like you. Yeah. Oh, brutal.

Because he's exactly right. He is. He is exactly right. Yeah. I went to a bachelor party right before I was baptized and like half the bachelor party was like let's go to a strip club and the other half was like Absolutely not I think and I was so proud of like a bunch of my friends who I expected to be degenerates We're like never in our lives. What are you talking about? And I was like wow what a weird shift because I do feel like five years ago This group of people who I'm friends with everyone would be like yeah

We should and now people are voicing their opinions like oh no Actually, I'm not gonna be pressured into this. I think that sucks And I was like yeah that rocks and they're like let's all like go play pool or something together and hang out I was in Slovenia recently To meet Melania Trump. Oh, I was like Trump. Oh, I was like bragging. Oh, yeah, I was. That's what we're doing. I'm going to just show my ignorance.

I didn't even know of Slovenia before. I've been traveling all over Europe. They asked me to come. Cluj, Napa. No, no, that was in Romania. Where was I in Ljubljana? I think Ljubljana can't pronounce any of the words, they say, which is brutal when they ask you to sign books.

Another humble brag, because the way they say their name is not at all how it seems to be spelled to me. So that was fun. Anyway, I'm in this city and someone is who's much bigger than me and could just rip my face off and throw it in the river, was wearing a giant placard advertising strip clubs and vulgar things were being like were written across it. And he's just walking up the English. Yes, in English, probably getting tourists, right?

Yeah. Walk out the main street. I don't know what possessed me. I looked at him and I said, Shame on you. Shame on you. Shame. Shame. And he kept walking away, looking at me like I was crazy. Wow. I'm so proud of me. Really? You just like were. Shame on you.

You were just. What are you? Disgusting to be like, you could be doing anything and you're like inviting people to do this. You're a shameful man It is gross. I was my point is you were here. You said we need to remasculinize Christianity boom So when you were at this bachelor party, and they're like, let's go to a strip club I really think instead of being like no dude, we're not doing that. I think some shaming is in order Yeah, by shaming what I mean is I'm trying to show you how you should feel Yeah, that you don't feel shame shows me that alarm bells should be going off. Yeah. Yeah, they're not I'm gonna help them go off. We were roasting them quite hard. So tell me how you did it

Yeah, well, I mean we were saying inappropriate things for sure But we were just like you got like you're a loo It is the like you're gonna pay someone to what you want to be horny with your friends? Think it through. What are we doing here? You know, it's like, what do we gain from this? That was my thing with porn that I've told a lot of people. A lot of people were like, well, I have no religious inclination.

I don't think it's a sin. Why should I not do it? And I'm like, take Pascal's Wager. What do you, if porn is bad for you and strip clubs are bad and sexualization of women and monetization? of their bodies is bad, then you are participating in like the destruction of the human soul the Destruction of women's lives the destruction or you know You're helping make it way more difficult for them to find happiness and love in the future

make it way more difficult for them to find happiness and love in the future. You're wounding them. You're wounding yourself. You're hurting your own dopamine receptors, your own libido, filling your brain with memories that you have to deal with. Should you one day get married? Exactly. You're filling yourself with expectations that are unreasonable for a woman who may love you like unconditionally. You're, um, you're also filling yourself with experiences that how are you going to square with these? If you have a daughter, like all these types of things, right? And then what do you gain? If you, what do you lose? If

you stop what you have more free time, like take the wager, it's Pascal's wager all the way on this one. Like there there's if you just don't now what you have more time to pursue your hobbies you have more time to date you have more time to do positive things like you're not losing anything you know like if you could just get over the hump of having to and play plan words whatever but if you can get over the hump of like the the sort of compulsion to masturbate or or give into sexual desire once you get over that and you sort of I mean you're never in the clear as we both know but there's no free to a point from your ears you're

having days where you just don't think about it, you know Not all of us are gonna be who's the saint who who bit his own tongue off and spit it in a woman's face I don't know but I want to yeah Apparently some royal guy sent like a prostitute to a saint's room to try and tempt him and he bit off his own tongue And spit it in her face and I was like, okay I mean I know the story of Aquinas who took the firebrand and chased the prostitute out yeah that's biting your tongue off I'm gonna see yeah yeah please and so um I like you know I do have moments where I feel like that too

where I've had people like come in to tempt me or flirt with me or whatever and I'm like, absolutely not. What do you think you're do? Like you're better than this, you know, or whatever. Maybe you're not, but I am. Yeah, yeah. And maybe you're not, but I hope you will be one day. So John Henry, who you met this morning, he teaches high school students. And one thing he says, he told me that he says to them is like, look,

you don't have to right now accept everything the church teaches about Catholic morality. Live it anyway, because, you don't have to right now accept everything the church teaches about Catholic morality. Live it anyway, because if you're wrong, God will forgive you. But nature won't. Yeah. Isn't that good? That's really good. You start screwing around and looking at porn. Yeah, God will absolutely forgive you. But you have to deal with the effects of running into a brick wall.

Yeah. Yeah. I can't. I never thought I never had the foresight obviously I lived like a very secular life to see how Promiscuity was going to affect you down the road It's gonna hurt people you love you've never met before well, that's something that like if you're a young woman or a young man promiscuity and The sexualization of all people is going to hurt someone you love you've never met yet you know like that person your future husband your future wife future girlfriend your future father-in-law there's someone

you've never met who could who you could be hurting by taking part in this and I didn't realize that until much too late and Yeah, and now you're like, you know It just is what it is. We all have challenges We all have our crosses to bear but that's something that like if I could go talk to my younger self I'd be like you have no idea that they're like the things you do could affect like your wife in the future So maybe don't maybe chill out a little bit, you know And how did how did you begin to sort of rewire things? You've already talked about muting Instagram things.

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure it was a much longer process. It was. What have you put into play that those who are watching right now might be able to do as well? So, I mean, when it started, it was simple. It was just like, it was first, it was trying not to watch porn.

And then it was sort of like, and then I stopped doing that. And then, you know, you do it in steps I Didn't try to take it all at once because that's just like the craziest thing to do is to make one huge sweeping life Do we get excited and then you're like it's like the ad not Atkins what keto diet? It's like you go keto. You're gonna gain more away for a week Yeah, you're gonna gain more weight when you yo-yo out of it And so I thought well, I can't do everything at once so I just took it a step at a time you know I quit porn before I quit masturbating yeah type thing and then you like you go to the next thing and I

just had like this checklist as I went like okay I'm dealing with this well now it's time to add a little now it's time to mute these people now it's time to do this and I just sort of like took it over time if I was to talk to like young people I would be like you just ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish by what you post and what you consume like anytime I'm like on Instagram if I go to I've like gone to post something and I've been like, why am I posting this? Like my friend and I were working out and I was gonna post us like shirtless, cause we were just goofing off flexing in the gym and I had to stop and be like, make sure you're

not posting this for the kind of attention that you may receive for it. This is a post about how it is fun to be in shape with your friend, you know, like I did really make sure like, why am I posting this? And I think people should. Why are you posting that photo in a bathing suit? What are you doing? Whose attention do you want? What do you think you're accomplishing? You know, and if the answers come back to you positive, then yeah, post it. The context matters. But like, what are you doing? And I do that for like what I post and what I consume.

So then I began to be like, oh, why am I consuming this girl's content? She is my friend, I'm not gonna like block her and be rude, but I'm gonna mute her now, you know? And so there was a lot of that where I had to ride the line between like someone who would say, you have to block all these people or whatever and sort of be like, well, no, but I can like be true to myself and my boundaries

and not just remove people from my life who maybe I don't agree with or who are overly sexual or whatever. So that would be the thing where like you don't have to go nuts. You don't have to like hand a nun your phone and let her like go, go sicko mode on everything. But you could also like be accountable to yourself consistently. Yeah. Although I would, and you'd probably agree with this. If you've tried different things and you're still falling,

it might be time to go hardcore. Right. That's the idea that you need to live with a smartphone. Is that true? Exactly. Is it? Yeah. Because it might not be. I'm with you. I think that you have Yes, it might not be. I'm with you. I think that you have to.

It's the thing that I always think about. One of the sayings I always rattles around on my head is, do you want to be right or do you want to win? And so I want to win. And if winning means like taking something to the extreme, then that's what you're just going to have to do.

You have to be really honest with yourself. Same thing with like, um, yeah, I mean, it's just like, do you need to hold yourself accountable? Like, I don't know. I have a friend who he would just like, uh, he would go. He was like a gambler or whatever. And so he just started sharing his location with his whole family and his wife and everybody so they could see where he was at all times Yeah, and it's like oh well you shouldn't have to do that that stupid and it's like no whatever it takes to win Yeah, we're trying to win right because no yeah

I love that too right because people might say well what am I gonna do get rid of my phone or like get covered in Ois like how lame is that you like no you know what's lame? Yeah masturbating to your phone and your parents Yeah, yeah, that's what's lame I do know people who are like, it's so unhealthy to let your girlfriend in your phone. And I may think there is a part of that. I don't want to go through. Your girlfriend doesn't want to be your mother, right?

Yeah. I don't want it unhealthy to have her take that role. Exactly. I can see that. But at the same time, like if you're struggling and she's the person you trust and love or your wife or whoever, maybe you do need to have her be like she knows the code your phone and she

can go in at any time she wants you know do you want to win or do you want to be right so there's a certain amount of that where you're like you just got to do whatever it takes yeah that's a good question am I willing to do whatever it takes yeah yeah yeah I think people don't problem solve I think that they limit themselves on purpose your problem solving abilities are limited in scope always for all problems People do that where they're like well, I'm right out of options. It's like no you're not you're just not being creative Or you're not being extreme enough. Yeah, which is like a weird sentence to say but like sometimes you got to get more Sometimes you got to be like I can't do this. I have to get rid of my smartphone for a month.

Yeah. You know, or whatever. The other thing is, I don't know if you've heard of this. It's called a sobriety plan. And this is something I recommend to fellows. We're trying to overcome pornography. Think of three concentric circles. The inner circle constitutes all the ways you might fall sexually.

Yeah. The second layer represents those activities that when I engage in them, I almost always end up in the interior circle. And that might be having more than one drink. It might be doom scrolling, social media, right? Whatever they are, the particular to you. Now, the outer ring is what we often don't think about. And that is what are those healthy behaviors that when I engage in them,

I'm actually just doing a lot better. And so I'm less susceptible to that second round, which makes me less susceptible to the interior. That's hard to do without such a good. Yeah, I know that's amazing. And that's like how you overcome anything. Because often what happens is when accountability is talked to partners, talk to each other. It's like, did you fall? No. Good for you. Did you? Yes. I'm sorry. I'll pray for you.

Yeah. But instead, what if you were like, all right, this outer circle? You said you want to be working out three times a week. Are you doing that? Yeah, you said you're not going to watch one more than one show at a time. Are you doing that? You know, you said you're going to eat well Are you doing that? Because if I wake up and I pray and I do my morning routine and I'm just in a better place I'm a lot less susceptible to behaviors that lead to sin I think that sin is interesting because when we have problems like um

There are problems we have I'm too big. I can attack that by working out I can see I'm like a in direct opposition to it, but with a lot of sin, there's no direct opposition So but you need to be proactive in order to overcome problems So but you need to be proactive in order to overcome problems So what you just said is so amazing because that really is like I need to be proactive That's why making your bed in the morning even though it has nothing to do with anything and technically you don't need to do it And if you're like a single man, it's like why what why would I do that? But it is you're attacking problems that have nothing to do with the bed By making your by doing something positive first thing in the morning like

So we have so many problems that you can't be proactive to attack. So you seem to proactive in your life I love this so just working out three days a week It's like are you you're fighting your porn addiction by being better, right? Because if you're tempted to impurity, what are you gonna do, go out and do something pure? Yeah, exactly. Like in a way you can fight pride head on. Like if I feel tempted to pride, I can actually embarrass myself and do in fact,

do that quite a bit. But I could intentionally do that. Or if I'm tempted to greed, I could give some of my money away. But when it comes to sexual impurity, what am I gonna do? Exactly. Go out and have a pure thought?

You know, it's like you can't really go against it. Yeah, it reminds me of anxiety. have your thoughts. You can't really go against it. Yeah, it reminds me of anxiety. I've been having really bad anxiety lately dealing with like relationships and stuff. And what do you, how do you combat anxiety? Because you can't think about it. That's the worst thing you can do.

I'm caught in a negative loop where I'm imagining the negative scenario over and over and over again So I can't concentrate on it to fight it. There's no no amount of grappling with the situation I cannot win so to be proactive and fight the anxiety. I have to Redirect myself which is so difficult and you almost always need to do it before the anxiety begins so like we just have problems where to be proactive and to fight them is to Do something that feels like it has nothing to do with them over here. You're almost like, you know It's like how do we beat the German tank?

Well, what if we what if we don't even try to fight the tanks? But we try to like make it so they're steel reserves or less, which is like a real strategy We did you know what I mean cool, and so you're like you're you're destroying the war machine before it even gets to you It's the idea of this yeah, yeah, and so what are these things? I love how you're articulating it It's really really insightful. Yeah, so why even fight the tanks? Let's just stop them from getting steel to make the tanks in the first place Yeah, and that's sort of the problem with like so many sins I feel like that's kind of the case with the ego sometimes because you can you can humiliate yourself or do other

things with ego ego yeah the sin of ego is like yeah that's a bad one I think it's the root of so many other sins maybe the worst one yeah I mean that's the way I think that the ain't that's the sin of the fallen angels personally. Yeah. Or pride, pride, pride and ego. So if you're out there going, no, I think I've, I think I've got that one buttoned up. That's probably a good sign. No, I feel like that one's the root. That one language and languages exists in all the other sins in some way or another. I want to have my way. I don't think lustfulness really exists in pride, the way pride exists in lustfulness.

Gluttony doesn't exist in pride, the way pride exists in, so I think pride is sort of like the father of sins. Yeah, I was chatting with someone recently who said that God is a communion of life-giving love. We are destined to share in that exchange. And so Christianity is about bringing us into communion with God and with each other. Where sin does the opposite.

Sin and the demons seek to isolate us, sift us as wheat, as Christ said to Peter. And when you look at the capital sins, they seem to do that. They seem to take us out of communion. Yes, does that. Like I want it's about me. It's about my pleasure at your expense. Pride is obvious. Gluttony, I'm turning in on this thing away from community.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Interesting. Sin isolates. Yeah. And virtue unites us. You know, if you want to know what the opposite of the Christian life or how to fail as a Christian all you have to do is like

What's the satanic motto do is do is that wilt is the whole of the law? Wow, you're like, oh, yeah pride just turning inward opposite of your fiat volantos to a thy will, you know, yeah Yeah, yeah, I will be done. Yeah, so it's that's the interesting one for me where I'm like, okay I got to really keep this in check because Any issues you have are? Jealousies or or you know, it's all there's something to do with your ego in there So what do you do to deplete the still reserves of your sins then? Like I mean apart you said making your bed you said muting things like that's really good because

As you say like what if we take away They're still before they get to us. That's what you're doing by not engaging sexualized content, right? Because you engage like a 10, 50, 100 sexualized images a day. It's it's almost like soft advertising. Yes. You don't even know why you want this thing. But it's been advertised to you all day. And all of a sudden, it's created this desire within you for that thing. Softcore porn and sexualized contents like that.

So by shutting that off, I'm, you know, like you say, but what else? It feels like it's doing nothing negative to you until you get rid of it and you go, oh, oh wow, that is different. Like it, yeah. So what, yeah. What I mean, you'd have to get specific about personal things. It doesn't have to be about sexual stuff either, but just how else do you try to deplete the steel reserves? How you put it?

Deplete the steel reserves. Don't even let them build the tanks. That's the idea. We're not even gonna let them build them. We're gonna stop them in the manufacturing process. We don't even wanna fight them. And so to do that, I mean, it just depends on the sin for sure, but a lot of it really is simple stuff.

Making the bed, working out every day, being proud of my body, taking care of myself. A lot of it is trying to lie less. You know, you just like tell stupid small lies, or like, I don't know. I don't even know how to do it, because it's hard to even think of them. But that kind of stuff like wears on you

and I think builds up into bigger things. So I try not to like, does this look good? No, I don't like it. You know, just trying to or even just speaking in a more diplomatic way, but not lying. You know, there's so many times where I lie for convenience sake. Is it okay if we go here? Yeah, I don't care. I did care. That's Peterson's point. Say the And if you can't do that at least don't lie. Yeah, no totally and so small things like that I've been trying to do more It just a lot of the muting and like trying to just like remove myself from those situations But a lot of it really is just like my physical body, you know? What do you mean? Like I'm trying to be more like Plato. Was it Plato who's broad shoulders?

Which philosopher's name means? I think it might be Plato. But I'm just trying to get like when your physical body is right, I feel like you can align everything so much easier. So for me personally, just going and working hard and getting my body in a way that I'm proud of myself and I feel like I can take care of those around me,

frees up my brain to be clear and make better decisions. Like I feel stronger in general. Like what are you training for? I don't know, I'm training to be moral and virtuous. You know what I mean? Like there is something about that that makes you feel, when I'm strong, I feel better able to be virtuous. Maybe when I can feel my own physical strength,

it gives me strength in other areas of my life. I also feel that same way about prayer and like my spiritual life. Like if I'm going to adoration more often and I'm being very prayerful and stuff I do feel like stronger in the gym to interesting like I don't know it Does like the one affects the other for me for sure I like how Christopher West put it if I cannot say no to that next slice of pizza

How will I say no to pornography? Yeah, you know so like pornography all things being equal like is much more pleasurable than the pizza So by denying myself these little things I'm strengthening my will to say no to greater things for sure I think the strengthening of the will is also deeply involved in your physical body Yeah, you know the will and it's also a perishable skill David Goggins talks about that all the time where he's like you can be the toughest person on earth And if you let yourself slip, you can, you can reverse that. It's not a permanent thing. It's not a permanent character trait in most of us.

So you have to nurture it. It's the same thing like you. You could see someone who's so sure of themselves spiritually, who lives a very virtuous and good life fall away. And it's not that nothing they did was real. It's just so easy to sort of let ourselves forget. We're so transient in, in how that works. I mean, there are people who experienced miracles that then go through spiritual

desolation. It doesn't seem like it should be possible, right? Like, and so, I mean, Teresa of Avila talks about this interior castle, that those who are like at the final mansion can still end up in hell. Yeah. You make you make all this progress and yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So what advice do you have to young men who feel embarrassed that they don't work out and feel more embarrassed that they don't know how to work out and they're afraid about going to the gym.

They're afraid about how their body looks. Like,. Like what kind of advice would you give them? That's a really common question I get also. And I think it's because I live my life in such a way that I'm very authentic and I maybe don't act or look like the typical guy who goes to the gym or shoots guns or wants to ride bulls or go to church even. And so people are like, what are you doing?

And how did you get over how weird you are which is like the subtext of what they say It's like when someone asked me what I do for a living a stranger goes What do you do for a job and the subtext is you're really weird? How do you live in society? You know that that question always makes me laugh. Um for guys who are worried about it. I mean no one in the gym cares No one in the gym cares. I'm telling you, no one is looking at you. No one is thinking about you. No one cares about you. You're it to simply throw in that way. Unless you're in, even then they're just like, get out of my way.

And they're never going to give you a second thought. Trust me, when I'm at the gym, the last thing I'm thinking about is how strong anyone else is near. In fact, I if I'm focused on how strong someone is, it's because they're stronger than me and I'm want to be as strong as them. I could care less about you down here. And in fact, if you asked me for help, I would happily give it to you. I've never I've never met a guy at the gym who's like, oh, this guy who's here all the time can't bench as much as me. Like, that's never a conversation I've ever heard of.

Even even in the most private group of male friends where we're all encouraging each other to be as insane and vile as possible. Which is very fun. Sometimes I've never had a conversation where someone was like, yeah, these newbies at the gym are these weak guys. Like, it's always like, get after it, hell yeah. You know, and so. Honestly, I think that's because the better you are at something, the more you're aware

of how much better others are than you. Yes. There is a humility that comes from beginning to be excellent at something. It's like realize how far you've got to go. Really good martial artists are much less likely to fight than some guy. Yeah. And so I would say that no one cares and also working out doesn't have to be the gym

What what do you want to do? Just get out and move going to hike? Yeah. Do you not like the gym? Okay, get into running. Do you not like running get into swimming? Do you not like that get into biking? Do you just like tennis? Well, then get way into tennis. Go find an adult league and start playing. Are you only into softball? Go find an adult. Like whatever your thing is, just go after it and move your body. Do you just think pushups are fun? Do a thousand a day?

I don't know. Like there's no rules. This is that goes back to me where I was saying people don't problem solve correctly. They they say to themselves, I need to be in shape. I don't like the gym. And then that's the end. What do you mean? You don't like the gym. So problem solve. I'm not saying you have to problem solve going, but do something else. Build the gym at home. Go run it. Like do burpees guys in prison who are in solitary confinement or jacked.

What are you doing? Get, do whatever it takes. Like, and enjoy yourself. You don't have to make it miserable. Like, just do whatever. Go to dance class for all I care. Just figure it out, you know? Is Zumba your deal? Listen, I think it sucks, but you might think it's awesome

and there's something authentic and cool about that. Yeah, because even just doing something is so much cooler than doing nothing. 100%. Like if all you did is, I'm gonna wake up in the morning and I go for a big walk around the block and then do 20 pushups.

That's terrifically better than doing nothing. Because you're afraid of not being as good as you could be. Truly. I think that especially to adults or people who are crossing over into adulthood are so deeply worried about Being embarrassed and not being good if you don't get good at something as a kid I feel like a lot of adults will languish through life never trying to be good at anything ever again I think I think I don't know about women, but that's definitely true of men

It definitely a lot of us men do not put ourselves in places where we think we'll be exposed Exactly. So even if a man's really great at the gym if he's not good at chess He'll go nowhere near a chessboard because he will not be exposed ever ever versa. Yeah Yeah, and I mean I feel that when I started comedy. I was not inviting my friends and my family to my shows for like two years deeply Afraid of them even seeing that I was performing and so I just didn't want to be caught out Do you know what I mean? We're so deeply afraid of that and so Getting over that is how I've I got over that really early in life

Very luckily with some few exceptions and because of that I've a gazillion hobbies Because I've been as an adult willing to be embarrassed. Yeah, I'll take singing lessons in adult. Yeah, I'll start surfing as an adult. Yeah, I'll just go play like rugby as an adult. I'll learn how to play cricket. Let's do it. You know? And so I have all these hobbies and all these things I do that I really love. And I feel like people are missing out because they're afraid to be embarrassed. Like, don't be afraid to be embarrassed. Just go out and get it.

So I've been watching a couple of Joe Rogan episodes lately and he keeps saying this thing. He says it over and over and over again. But I think there's some real brilliance to it. He says the hardest thing you do is the hardest thing you'll do. In other words, if the hardest thing

you do is parallel park, then that's going to be the hardest thing. Yeah. You woke up and did a cold plunge, then the parallel parking might not be so difficult. Yeah. Yeah, I love that.

That's a great thing. Yeah, that. That's a great thing. Yeah, yeah. That's like the military, the only easy day was yesterday. Okay. Like today is hard. It's always hard. The easy day was yesterday.

It's sort of just like get into the mindset, just accept it and like crush into that, like lock in and do it. I love that. So. How important is it when you say these men might ask you about this or reach out to you? like crush into that, like lock in and do it. I love that. How important is it when you say these men might ask you about this or reach out to you, did they have some kind of routine at the gym? Do you ever?

That's important. I think that if you're gonna go to the gym specifically, like if you're a person who's like, oh, I'm just gonna go running or whatever, you do need a schedule, but it's like a little easier. The gym does have a skill component and it can be complex and it depends on your goals Like if you just want to build muscle then just go find gyms to gyms to ponies a shortcut to size and just do it You know, they're like workout programs if you just google it you can find like a five by five workout

You also have to decide what you want from the gym Do you want to squat the most weight because a bodybuilding program is it going to give you that but like if you just want to get in there and just grow and feel strong just like go go watch sam sulik videos i don't you don't know who that is he's a very jacked zoomer kid that makes wholesome content but he's you know just just go google bodybuilding split and just do it and commit to it like you don't have to overthink people also overthink everything They're trying to light. Please start light. Yeah. Yeah, yeah I've never done any of this stuff before it's not lighter than you think you need don't go crazy

But and don't overthink it and don't try to over optimize it. Everyone is over optimizing everything What does that mean? Like everyone is like like I remember when everyone is obsessed with sleep for a while and fitness yeah yeah for a while for back in twenty twenty three two months yeah yeah everyone was like if you don't sleep nine hours a day your testosterone it's like dude no one who did I see in a podcast recently they're like no one who's successful had a good sleep schedule and that's so true like no one who's Anywhere near successful ever got good sleep like don't worry You're worried about the wrong things like if I don't take my creatine every day

I won't be jacked if I don't take my vitamins if I don't eat correctly and perfectly like stop Yeah, you know just do it Just get out there and do it to the best of your ability and get out It's like I went to the gym and it was too full so the bench was taken find a machine That's close enough or like whatever or like oh well maybe today's not biceps Maybe today's shoulders like you're not problem solving correctly. Yeah, that's him Sulek That's that kid I was telling you like a love heart. Yeah, he's jacked. He's so strong and cool Shout out Sam Sulek, please get in touch with me buddy. Anyway, I love that you said he's he creates wholesome content

What do you mean by that? Well his he makes these videos he makes these videos where he just basically takes you to the gym with him and in a video and he just talks to you while he works out and there it's incredibly simple content. It's not overproduced It's clearly made by him with a camera and he just talks to you and he motivates you and he says nice things And I've been watching like every video he's made recently So, I don't know who knows maybe he's gone off the deep end But I do think he's just like the sweetheart buff dude is like go to the gym better yourself do your cardio Awesome guy like you said about like what did you say optimal? How did you phrase that people are obsessed with optimization? So

I've said this a thousand times. My wife's been doing carnival for seven months now. She feels great. She keeps reminding me I'm not doing this to be cool. I just have to do it was my body breaks down Yeah, I did it with her for the month of January. I felt great. Yeah, but I wanted beer I'd rather be not optimal and be able to drink beer occasionally or bread occasionally So I like that like yeah, no, I don't that is yes. You're right. I did feel as good as I've ever felt Yeah, I'm choosing not to do that and I'm glad I'm choosing not to do that. Do you want to be right? Or do you want to win? Yeah being right might be eating carnivore all the time for you, but winning, what is winning?

Winning is when I can stick to it, when I can be as good as I can and happy. So maybe winning for you isn't carnivore all the time. Exactly, no way. And so that's where I'm at too, where I'm like, if I can't maintain the schedule, what's the point? You know, so if you can't maintain your fitness, if you set fitness goals and you begin them

and you're having a lot of fun, but be honest with yourself, can you maintain this forever? Find a way to maintain it. Three days a week, that's all it takes. Get in there, or some days, maybe you only got two days that week. You know what, don't quit. This is the thing too that, um,

being Catholic when I began to discern being Catholic, I was like, Oh, I get it because I would see Christians do bad things and I would be like, well, you're a bad Christian. You're not a Christian. Why are you acting like this? The Christian shouldn't act like this. I didn't realize that no matter how far you fall into sin, you're not supposed to give up Like you don't have to beat the devil. You have to outlast him. You know what I mean? Like you don't got to beat him. You just got to outlast them And so it's like you never give up even if you're in even if you're existing in mortal sin Help others to resist like keep it moving

You know like just because you're in mortal sin doesn't mean you should give up. And it doesn't mean you shouldn't tell others not to give up or encourage others to be virtuous. Like you still need to be fighting even if you're loose. Like it's, it's the surrender. I think there's a priest who gave a talk and I'm like basically paraphrasing what he said, but I think about it all the time. And that's the same thing with fitness or any other goal.

It's like, just because you're failing now, doesn't mean don't just give up. Like resist. What are you doing? Like, absolutely keep resisting. Because if you, the reward is consistency will pay out. It's like playing poker for a living. You're not winning big hands and making all your money.

You're winning a little bit at a time and over time that builds like professional poker players are Playing a long game and that's like what we should be doing with like a lot of our goals and things We're playing the long game just because you begin to fail just because you only got to the gym once this week Just because you had two days where you had milkshakes and you feel like you're a fat Lord, doesn't mean you give up. Like you keep pushing through. I wanna tell you about Hello, which is the number one downloaded prayer app in the world.

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battle plan to get out. And so I've distilled all that I've learned over the last 15 or so years as I've been talking and writing on this topic into this one course. Think of it as if you and I could have a coffee over the next 21 days and I would kind of guide you along this journey. That's basically what this is. It's incredibly well produced. We had a whole camera crew come and film this. And I think it'll be a really a real help to you.

And it's also not an isolated course that you go through on your own because literally tens of thousands of men have now gone through this course. And as you go through the different videos, there's comments from men all around the world encouraging each other, offering to be each other's accountability partners and things like that. Strive21, that's Strive21.com slash Matt, or as I say, Text STRIVE to 66866 to get started today. You won't regret it. And we're back

So you've been getting requests to do Catholic events. Yeah. Yeah, it's been awesome I've been saying yes to quite a bit of them. So we'll see how they go Where are you going with something? Oh, um, I'm doing I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say some of them But I'll be doing like a really big, a really big conference in Arizona. I'll be performing for bishops. We'll say that. I think I'll be performing for more than one bishop. They gotta get you for seek. If they haven't asked you yet,

you don't have to admit if they have, they really need to get you to seek. They haven't. I've been contacted by no one. Someone get at me. I would love to talk about my conversion. Yeah, cause they had, well, I mean, also just to do like a show.

Yeah, I would love to do both. I would love to do a show and like do a talk and just like Which I've been asked to do from other people and I'm so looking forward to because I've spoken at universities before yeah But usually I'm speaking about like my previous life of of crime and things I'm talking about the links between like American crime and poverty or just like what it means to be a man and in a lower class society, stuff like that. But I would much, much, much rather talk about God and, and my experiences and we definitely have people from watching the show. So there you go. You've been told that'd be great. I'm absolutely down. How do they reach out to you? I have no idea. My email, my website, there's a website, I need to get someone else to run

it right now. The guy who ran it is, is, uh, gone. I don't know. I guess Instagram, what do you check that they could? I check Instagram. I try. It can be tough, but yeah, my email Shane one Smith at gmail.com. That just happened. Get ready. Yeah. Good point. It is public though. If you go on my website, you could see it. So I've shared this before. Christopher Weston and we were talking about vasectomies. Yeah. And he said, listen, if anyone out there has had a vasectomy, write to me.

We'll find the funds to get a reversal if you want to get a reversal. Here's the email. As he said, I'm like, dude, that's a great. You're going to get way more. They got over. They incurred over $100,000 in debt from the people that reached out to get a vasectomy reversal. No way! Well, good for them though!

Yeah! They went for it, they helped! That's incredible! Yeah, yeah. Yeah. TOB Institute, God bless them. Well, I'm A, just so you know, if you email me, I can do nothing about your vasectomy! I got zero help for you, dog!

I'm sorry that happened to you. I wish you all the best Do not message me about your testicles. I cannot help you But I can't speak at your conference and I will if you ask it's gonna be funny if they start getting these mixed up Christopher West starts getting us to do comedy comedy. You have a special coming out this year, right? And you won't. Oh, I'll be filming one. It'll come out next year. I would like to, I have like this, this like groups of material. And so I have, I'm going to film another dry bar and I love dry bar. They've been so kind to me and I've been working with them more this year doing other behind the scenes stuff and so they've been so awesome and I'm gonna film one with them but I would like to release one

this year personally and so we'll see how that goes. I might, I'm gonna write some stuff and maybe do like a half an hour, maybe we could talk about that later. That could be a good time but yeah, I would like to release something this year, but I'm also going to record something that will be released probably next year. So what work goes into putting together this incredible amount of work? I mean you have to write you have to well first you have to write an hour of jokes to tour with which is like an hour of talking with no one else interrupting you and it has to be funny

You know you want to laugh a minute at least Yeah, well, I mean I do I know a lot of comics who are not getting that but um So I'm sure you know you're trying to write the funniest thing possible And then you know you want it to be true to yourself and relatable and interesting but it's like kind of difficult to Just write an hour worth of funny stuff and then you begin to do it But now you wrote it, but you don't know if it's good and you need to practice it comedy is like if Till you were learning an instrument you only got to practice in front of people

US this is why you're such a good Comedian That's okay. You said comic. Yeah. You're such a good comedian. The way your brain works is very philosophical. Like even just today, you've said a few things off the top of your head.

Like the first thing about like taking the steel reserves, you said something else. Oh yeah. Like the way you express things, it's like in a way that I've never expressed it, but I know exactly what you mean. And that the way you said it, like sheds new light on the experience that I've felt, but haven't know how to do it. So that's a compliment. Thank you. It was a garbled compliment. I appreciate it.

Yeah. I have received it. Such a great analogy. Like, yeah. So here's the guitar. The only time you can practice it is in front of a group of critical people. Exactly. Yeah. And so now you've written it. And so when you get to my level, um, and this is maybe prideful, but it's also just factual. I write things and a lot of the time it's just good. I wrote it and I know that it works. I know how people are going to react to it and it kind of just goes as I think

it would, but obviously that's not how it goes all the time. And so there are a lot of things you write where you go, Hmm, that did not go how I thought. And now I have to rewrite it or add things. And now you're performing it live constantly and you have to be listening back to it. You have to be tweaking it. You have to be like, well, this gets laughs half the time. Why? And then you need to figure out the why you need to change that so that it's getting laughs 100% or at least 80% of, you know, and you're there's timing and all

this stuff. And so to make a comedy special, a lot of comics take two, three, four years working on that material. And I am I have like this deep anxiety of re performing too much material so every year I write close to a new hour that I'm touring with so if someone comes and sees me from one year to the next they'll see a different act I hope for the most part sometimes it's not all different but it's as different as I can make it in reasonable time and And so, um, I'm always writing So to like write this tri bar that I'm writing

Like a lot of the material i'm touring on i'm working on and then I have to organize it in a certain way Then I have to make sure it's not too long, but not too short I don't take out this part, but maybe I have to take out and and it really is like a whole process and so to start from scratch is like quite a lot, quite a lot. And, you know, it is what it is, though. It's the name of the game. I would think that part of when you're on fire, you know, on stage,

is it's coming naturally. It is planned out, but it's also coming out sort of free flow and you can adjust to things. But then what is it like when you've written a special and it's being recorded and in a way like how do you do the it's coming out freely? But you also want to make it perfect and it can never. Maybe to try to make it perfect is to ruin it. Perfection is the enemy of progress.

Yeah, so I don't try to make anything perfect. I just try to make it as good as I can in that moment. And I think every moment is just a new chance to make it as good as it could be in that moment. I also think comedy is very contextual. It's like, you know, art, it's where you see art can affect how good art is imagine if you were Like just walking in you found like an abandoned Castle and you were in the castle and you were just walking through and there's like vines everywhere and it's old and it's kind Of scary and like the sun's shining through and you walk into this room and you're like this

What a wild experience and you look onto the wall and the peasants hands Are on that wall the peasants and you have you ever seen the painting? Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes you you might just start weeping like that would be you would just be like, oh my god Like what is happening here? This is yeah Beautiful like as opposed to seeing it framed in a cluttered antique store as opposed to seeing it on Instagram Yeah with that, you know what? I mean? Like you're you're kind of like and you wouldn't even know that this is such a beautiful thing or just seeing it in a museum You know as as compared to something else if I saw the Mona Lisa at a thrift store, I'd be like, okay But when I see her in the museum and I understand how she got there and what she means and stuff

It's moving and so I think comedies like that where it's like Yeah, maybe in this club today with what I said That's so funny, but it'll never be that funny again, and I shouldn't chase that dragon I should accept things are how they are in the context of where they are being a good comedian is where am I right now? Yeah, and how do I make this as funny as I can so you try to have the kind of experience of doing a stand-up routine when it's being filmed, essentially the same as when it isn't. Yes, yeah. So I kind of go, this is how this room is going,

this is how I'm gonna perform. I will say that I have like this analytical brain sometimes where I'm like, this joke is for the internet. I think it'll be funnier to watch on the internet or in the special than it will be live. And sometimes I'm right about that. And that's been interesting where I've been like, I've taken a bit out and added one in that I was like, well, this is for the internet. This isn't for live. Yeah. So there was like on my last special I did about the karate stuff and the very beginning

I did a small amount of comedy just about who I am and where I've come from and um a lot of my act right now is autobiographical and uh I was doing a whole hour about how I grew up as a child And I just plucked out a couple things that I just thought would be relatable to people that would be good clips. And I put them before like a twenty seven minute story. And so those parts flowed into the story and it made it all seem like it was one thing, but I picked those out specifically to be clipped.

Yeah. So I was being sort of like a robot in that sense where I was like this is my strategy This is what I'm gonna do. Yeah, this isn't necessarily the best thing for the live performance or makes sense for the story But this is the best thing for The content that people are going to get to consume so I'm thinking about all that stuff when I perform I may have asked you this last time and if I did no need to answer it But when's the last time or the first time you bombed? Oh, so yeah, the first time I bombed was I talked about that, but the last time I bombed, oh man. Oh, I bombed on Valentine's day.

I bombed on Valentine's day. I, uh, Made fun of a single middle-aged woman and I should not have. I did a Valentine's day like, um Day like, was it an open mic? It wasn't an open mic, it was an open mic. It was sort of an open mic. It was like, they were doing like a shotgun style thing where every comic was getting like five minutes and there was like 20 of us.

And I showed up to the comedy club and I bought every waitress at the comedy club flowers. And I brought all the waitresses flowers. It was or was Ash Wednesday that's super sweet of you yeah well whatever I was trying to get a particular one flowers and so everyone got flowers and so I got everybody fly it was I did want everyone to get flowers and so I got every every female staff at the comedy club I brought flowers and so um in with a giant bunch of roses I handed you out?

Like a crazy, like a bunch of bundles of dozen roses. And I was just like, here's a dozen roses for you. I knew how many women were there ahead of time. I called ahead of time and asked someone. Very cool. And they told me, and I went to like the grocery store and just bought all the roses they had left to that day and just brought them all.

So, yeah, I thought that was fun. So I did that just to be nice, cause I thought, well, yeah, I thought that was fun. So I did that just to be nice because I thought, well, they're working on Valentine's day and they're sweet. And so, um, then they were like, you want to do the show? And I wasn't prepared. I'm making excuses for myself immediately. And I went up and I was like, I don't want to do material. I don't know what even to have five minutes of material to do. And I was like, I'm going to riff. And so I was telling the story of St. Valentine and I was kind of like being a little crude while I was doing it but like trying to have fun and like no one was into it at all. They were so not into it and I got like two laughs but I bombed for a couple minutes and I was like alright well I'm out of here everybody

and I just beast out but I bombed pretty good and I thought that was very funny. Yeah well maybe did you think it was funny five minutes after? Yeah, I thought it was funny after I don't take it personally especially because I was rinsed That's right. If you had to put all this work into it and everyone's if I bombed material, I'd be like, uh-oh I need to re-evaluate Happen but I do often take big risks and sometimes they don't pay off I've been very fortunate that they've paid off a lot. Oh, thank you. And so but um, yeah I've had a few times where they've not paid off and that was one of them

So yeah, I bombed on Valentine's Day trying to tell the story of st. Valentine I mean I brought up Seinfeld a couple of times now just because he's been all over the internet doing promotion for Unfrosted that new movie he put out. Did you watch it? It was bad He didn't like it. I didn't like it. Why didn't you like it? I don't know. I just thought it was boring Maybe I should maybe I was in a bad mood or something. Yeah, it's hard to tell isn't it? I thought some of it was funny. I do incredibly fast-paced. It was absurd and I loved a lot of the absurdity Yeah, there were a few jokes that got me. I just thought like what are we doing? This is a weird but Seinfeld loves to do that

Remember B movie. Yeah, what? He didn't write that right or direct it. I don't know. Did he write and direct unfrosted? Yeah, I think he directed it I don't even think I finished it. Yeah, I watched it with my wife the other day in Amsterdam Whoa Here we go It was good. Yeah, I liked it. It was fun. It was Isn't that brutal to say someone puts years of work, hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars and you go, here's fine.

Yeah, it's fine. It has every famous person you can imagine in it. It's OK. What do you think? What kind of deal must he have with Netflix to do eight million interviews? He did write the B movie. OK, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's nice to know. It's so weird. He did write the B movie, okay. Thanks for the stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's nice to know. You were right. It's so weird. He's a weird guy, but I mean, that's part of his charm. Yeah, but I just think-

The deal he has at Netflix, it's like, what's the deal Adam Sandler has at Netflix? I don't know. I don't know either, but those movies are weird and he's making a gazillion dollars. Adam, put me in one of your movies. Holy hell, I like that. I like that you assume he's watching Pints when Aquinas come here to tell you.

The most Jewish man alive just hanging out watching Pints. No, I don't know, but I don't know what Netflix is up to. They do pour money into like... I just mean what kind of agreement do you have? Because presumably he has to be financially incentivized to do 8 million interviews. I don't know if you've noticed this, but just over the last three or four weeks, he has been doing show after show after show. Yeah, yeah.

Mars show. Actually, quite nice. Yeah, they just try. Your agent just tries to get you everywhere. Yeah, you can. But I'm thinking there's going to be a reason you're agreeing to this. Like Netflix has got to say, I need you to do X, Y, Z or this many. A lot of interviews to agree to do it.

Do you feel like this? Do you make more money the more that more people watch it? Maybe that's it. And that's the incentive. I don't know. I think it's your, I just think you're obligated to do a press tour, but maybe, but what does that mean? I don't know that you make more money. Maybe it's an, I don't know. Here's the thing about it is I personally, and a lot of people are like, how can you be like this? But like when Chappelle does specials, I go, why, why do you work? Go home to your family.

You have all the money, never leave your kids again. What are you doing? That blows my mind. Like you have the money, you never have to work again. But isn't that a beautiful thing because he's not doing it for the money clearly I guess he does it for the love of the I think that that it's still money I think that people just want more money. You know what I mean? So maybe he is doing it for the love but like if you're doing it for the love, why are you on Netflix? I see like I guess you might be though cuz like where else are you gonna go? But I do think a lot of it is ego

Well, if you're proud of what you do and you want to you want a lot of people to see that true But because you take you take a Netflix deal right now, even if they said we'll give you 50 bucks, wouldn't you? Yeah, yeah because the payout the eventual payout is so insane because of the The exposure you would have so I know you've had some friends who've done Netflix specials, and is that what they, what do they share with you? Yeah, the difference in career, it just like jumpstarts your career like insane.

That hasn't happened for everybody, but like if you're Nate Bargotse, you know, that's like a seminal moment for you. You do 30 minutes on Netflix, the next thing you know, you're selling out arenas. Wow. You know, which is like so good. Like someone like Nate deserves it,

but there are other people who are like, really? But what are some traps you've seen, and you don't have to name names, other comedians fall into as they've grown that you don't want to fall into? I mean, the main one is becoming complacent and surrounded by yes men and only performing for your audience.

And then you become unfunny without realizing it. And then you produce something Like for Netflix or a wider audience and everyone goes you're bad now what happened? Just because you never knew because your audience pays to see you and they want to have a good time And so then this content comes out to everyone, you know, and there are people who have made that mistake A bunch of people have made that mistake You know a lot of people just fall in love with themselves and their own legend and or they work for the sake of working or they do things for all the wrong reasons or they begin

to do things that are inauthentic, you know, and you're like, why, why are you doing that? I don't know. So that's a trap. I've seen a lot of comics fall into comics want to be rock stars That's really what it comes down to I have zero interest in any of that so like me and my peers don't really get along and I've always been kind of like removed from the industry even before I became Christian and now it's like I'm really removed You know even before I was Christian only fan like someone was like do you want to do this only fans comedy show? No. What? Why are they doing? You know, calm? That makes no sense. I'm not doing that and so raising money for like, so I don't know. There are comedians who fall into these

traps where they do stuff like that, and I just think it like murders your soul and then over time it just Destroys the product and you just stop being funny or you become a character of yourself You know It's that thing where p holmes had live a life worth commenting on and I think that's so true and a life worth commenting on Is a life that is like beautiful and good you know like what I want to comment on a life that is Something that like all people can relate to I think there's some people want to peek into what it's like to be a rock star

Travel all the time or drink a lot or be with a lot of women or whatever stuff comedians are up to you But I'd rather like I don't know talk about my experiences like a person in the world who loves and wants to be loved and like Cares about family or like all that, you know and is trying to just live my life And obviously I can never be working class until I become working class again I'm removed from that but I can get as close as I can in order to like be relatable and I don't know I also feel so uncomfortable with like wealth and opulence. So I don't want to need that's another thing comics do is they, they get money and then they start living like a very opulent life where they're

living paycheck to paycheck, but they have a million dollars and you're like, what are you doing? Like that's crazy. Have you thought then what's the goal of your comedy? because it sounded like at one point you were saying to me if you make Enough money stop doing it. Yes, so is it just to make enough money because that sounds bad No, my goal is to make money so I can stop. I definitely don't do everything I can to make enough money I don't post enough on social media. I haven't said yes to certain jobs It would make me bajillion dollars because I don't morally agree with them

I haven't said yes to certain jobs that would make me bajillion dollars because I don't morally agree with them I've said no to things because of that I've made decisions that have stopped me from getting jobs like becoming Catholic or whatever and so money isn't the goal for me I don't you know, I'll be honest. I've lost sight of what the goal is so honest. Thank you Yeah, I don't know anymore because when I was in open mic or it was to be a working comic Then it became a working comic and I thought to myself I'd like to be the most successful comic I can be and now I don't care Why can't it be something like as simple as when this could at least be part of it just to bring joy to people? Yeah, I shared this with you twice now, but I'll share it for my audience

I was laying in bed with my beautiful daughter Avila the other day and we were watching Brian Regan. I'm like, isn't he good? She's like, can we play Shane Smith like yeah, I mean he's great too. Sure. I guess Very rewarding to know that it is like a 13 year old girl hanging out with her dad wanting to watch you because you bring Joy to her. Yeah, lovely. That's something that um, I Always was clean and dirty and now since Mike before my conversion As I decided to be Catholic. I was like, okay I'm just gonna be clean all the time and what happened when I did that was I realized how many Families enjoy me as a group.

And I was like, oh no, that's way more special than just some guy being like, I like when you said the nasty thing, I got through my work day because of you. It's like, I can get him through his work day and you and your daughter can watch me. I think that's special. So I mean, comedy is weird because people will message me

and be like, you saved my life pretty often often and I'm like blown away by that. So I do think I'm doing something good and I'm doing something meaningful but like My personal goals outside of just simply doing what my job is. I don't know nowadays I do my job professionally like Firefighters don't think about being heroes. I would hope not They just kind of are like well my firefighters is what I know how to do I don't know how to do anything else and that's where I'm at in comedy where I'm like, well, it's just what I do I don't know how to do anything else. So this is just what I do. So when people are like, what's your goal?

I guess I'm being honest with you. But with other people I I'd be like, I don't know, Netflix or whatever, but I really don't know. Truly. It's like not check my bank account when I eat, I guess, like do my best. And then hopefully if I do my best, I can like buy a house for my wife one day. When like they have kids that get to go to Catholic school and like play sports. I, I don't know. Yeah. I've lost sight of it because I truly don't care about being famous. Yeah.

I could care less. How do you know that you don't care about being famous? I mean, it seems obvious. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that I know. I stopped caring when, um, I just sort of, I think my priority shifted in as soon as I started treating social media differently. I was like, Oh, I think my priority shifted and as soon as I started treating social media differently, I was like, oh, I don't care anymore. I just stopped posting on TikTok almost entirely. I stopped trying to like grow myself in social media

in a way where you're just trying to get eyes on you. I stopped doing that. And I would only post if I actually wanted to, as if it was my personal Instagram I just happen to have 200,000 followers It was funny is as I begin to do that it actually started to work better People are more receptive to that which is so funny receptive to what to like it used to be that I would post every two Days and I would I would like have sometimes I would be like, okay

The last two times you posted a meme and then you posted a photo of yourself with a funny caption, but you need to post a real, we got to get a real in there. That's how you grow. When people need to know I'm funny and I would have to like brainstorm a real. Now I'm just like eight breakfast. Here's my face, whatever. And like just post it. And people are like way more receptive to that. I mean, it's really funny. I think that was the charm of Instagram in the beginning, is that, you know, people. What's that fellow who plays Dwight Schrute or whoever?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. From their shows. And then this is just like them taking photos of themselves doing random things. And you feel like you're getting to know the person. Yeah. But if that person is just posting the more public content that everyone's already watching, well, I don't have a window into your life. I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm saying I think that's the charm of Instagram. Yeah. Beginning. Yeah, well, I don't have a window into your life. I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm saying, I think that's the charm of Instagram

in the beginning. Yeah, yeah, I think so. And so now I like, I use supposed to read two days now. Sometimes I don't post for six, you know? And then I just post nothing. It's just like some memes at my face. And I'm like, yeah, you know? And so also I started more posting more sincere things.

Like I posted about my baptism and things. And I was really surprised for all the negative feedback I've gotten about being Christian. Like I post about my baptism and things and I was really surprised for all the negative Feedback I've gotten about being Christian like I post about my baptisms like one of my little most liked posts ever I got tons of congratulations from a lot of atheists too Which is really nice. I don't know. It's just been weird It's do you ever meet comics who don't know how to turn it off 100 almost all of them Yeah because what I love about you is we could have a whole conversation.

If people didn't know you, they may not know you're a comic because you're not trying to be funny every five seconds. Yeah, yeah, I have no compulsion. I just sort of like want to be. Yeah, I mean, the bit about don't send me information about your testicles was brilliant. But apart from that, it's not like, yeah, yeah. I'm not here trying to like, what's the funniest thing

I can say about not using my phone? Yeah, because I would imagine, you know, you go on Conan O'Brien or these big shows, you've got a certain amount of time. You've got to be really funny. Yeah. But then you've got these long form

chats that people like Joe Rogan and others do where it's really nice when people can just sort of relax and just, you know, I remember watching Rogan's interview with Brian Regan. And it's so cool just to see Regan just chat yeah yeah you wouldn't know he was a comic necessarily just I think the best comics I think one thing to not forget as a comic because I've seen

comics who are so funny funnier than me world-endingly funny like I would say like for me personally I want one big laugh a minute. Sometimes more, for an hour. That's a big ask. And I'm going for it. I've seen comics crush, like, total, like, they're doing jokes that aren't landing because people are laughing too hard from the thing before.

Top to bottom, killers. And no one remembers them, no one follows them. Because you can be the funniest person ever, but at the end of the day, people aren't going to remember that you made them laugh. They're going to remember how you made them feel. And, and laughter is in the moment, but it's not a lingering feeling. It's like, I liken it to, I think comedy and horror are like one in the same same so like what's the best scary movie? It's not the movie that during the movie you're like whoo-hoo and you jumped and you were like really scared during the movie But afterwards you're that was a crazy movie right the scariest movie is the movie that maybe only scared you a little bit during

And I guess later on you're in your room, and you go I'm gonna run to the bed after I turn this light off right now You know like yeah, that's the scary movie that gets you. And so the comedy that gets you isn't the comedy that kills you in the moment, makes you laugh a lot. It's the one that makes you remember to feel good. People remember how you make them feel, not what you made them do necessarily. And so with my comedy, I always want people to remember how I made them feel. you know, and so I always think about that. I don't, I don't really know like what actions I take in order to accomplish it,

but I think by just having it in my head and being conscious of it, it helps because people I do feel like for some reason my comedy, which is very goofy and surreal in a lot of times, like does make people feel over the long term, which is like, that's the best. When a joke makes you laugh for years, or just makes you feel good. Like I love those.

What's random too, is I'm sure for, it's different for everybody. But there's a few things you've said that you probably, I don't know if you realize that that would be the thing. No, yeah. Like, so for me, it's the it is all holds barge Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that so much that you said that so perfectly and every time I think about that I love and I don't even know why it's funny. Yeah, I guess it's because I don't know what no holds barred means

Yeah, yeah, I never really thought about what that might mean. So when you say it's not it's all holds barred. Yeah. Yeah I that's a fun line I didn't think people and people have like talk to me about it or just like we're the alligator boys now I thought that was kind of a corny world way lines toddler. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and people remember that and I'm like, whoa It's like there's this office joke where they're all pretending to have guns and they're pointing each other and then do I goes minor crossbows? I think about that all the time. I'm always like, minor crossbows, you know, it's so stupid. And I love jokes that linger in your life.

And so how you make people feel so much more important than making people laugh. Yeah, I wonder what that means. I'm trying to think that through with you because it's sort of like if I liken it to food, there is a certain food that gives me immediate pleasure, but then maybe I regret it or forget about it. And then there's a food that's wholesome.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And so in a way, like the reason people like Michael Scott is because they care for him. Yeah. And they kind of they see themselves in him. They see the ways that maybe they've tried to be liked and haven't been and they felt lonely and that meant well, but have been misinterpreted and there's an affection you feel for that character That it goes deeper than just a quick. I think bluff It's like the difference between like how a food makes you feel and how a meal makes you feel okay that meal has so much more

Right it's not only the food who I shared it with where I was why I was there You're like I remember that meal But like you could have the best ice cream in the world and you just like that was good ice cream You know what I mean? It's that's just a food but you want a meal like I want to serve people a meal I love it, you know, who would you most like to open for? Oh so you metallica I Know a comic you so before myica. Are you kidding? Yeah. Yeah. They used to have a comedian on the road with them and I literally talked to my

agent like, dude, I don't know what you have to do to get me in there, but let me open for Metallica. How funny. Yeah. I saw Tenacious D open for Metallica in Dublin, Ireland. That's wild. But I've never seen a standup comic open for a band, let alone a metal band. Yeah, people do it. I know someone who opened for John Mayer for like a while and they pay you like a lot.

Well, it's because if a band opens for you, one, there's like band energy, and now you're like kind of competing with each other, yada, yada, yada. But they have all this equipment, they have to be in a bus or whatever. If I'm a comic, I'll just fly in day of, give me a microphone, I'm ready to go.

You don't have to pay me nearly as much. Yeah, it's great. I wonder how that would help the band too, because I could see like closing for Metallica would suck, like Metallica energy, and then you've got a, hey guys, no matter how intense you are, you're not gonna get Metallica intense. So I can see how opening would be a better idea,

but it makes more sense to me that a comic would open for John Mayer, because I could see that being maybe more of an acoustic, intimate environment. Sure, sure. I think that if you open for Metallica, it's like arena comedy. Like you just accept that it's gonna feel weird, but like people are gonna laugh,

but you're not really gonna feel like it's a real show. But I think it would be good I think I as long as you were killing with the the pit or whatever like the people down here You would feel good about it How would that benefit the band that benefits the band as opposed to having a band to open for you? I feel like why a comic I feel personally like a band like Metallica like if I come out as if they're like, okay We're gonna get the show like we're all setting up. Here's a comic Well, I come out and I kind of like do my thing and maybe a lot of people have fun

But now the energy gets to shift and now it's Metallica time, you know, you kind of don't get exhausted on the music yeah, yeah exactly and that I think that the Music preceding comedy is the worst thing that could happen Yeah, comedy preceding music is actually like a really good transition Interesting. Yeah, if that's happening more and more haven't been to conscious. I think it is I know someone who opened for the band corn I know a few other people who've opened for different bands I would love it though and I would be performing for like the most people ever

I would write a joke and sneak a Hail Mary in there. Mark my words. We would be really funny to like cabling it up with millions of Metallica fans. But do me a favor. When you open up for Metallica, I just want you to say this is friend of mine. He runs a show school pints with Aquinas. Just plugging pine. He could probably pay you $300 if you wanted to. Oh man. But yeah, that would be the person. I, the people, the person I would open for it'd be great. What about a comic though? Who would you like a comic? Um, I know, see, I was talking to you earlier about problem solving and how there are no rules. And I gave you the answer. You weren't looking for that. Um, a comedian,

I like to open for normal McDonald. I mean, where do you go? Quite a bit. I would open for John Mulaney probably Yeah, Mulaney or Kevin Hart. I just think it would be fun. I like both guys I've never really interacted with either of them and they're like comedy Comedians who I look up to a lot so that'd just be cool to meet them and stuff I've met so many of my heroes that I'd be like, oh like cool, you know, it would just be fun Yeah, I think I would get along with both of them. I think it's probably a neat thing to never trash talk another comedian as a comedian.

Yeah, comics love the trash. It's probably really difficult. What you do. Yeah. So it's to not trash talk. I don't mean that. That's what I was referencing. So hard not to try. I just mean, you know, what you do is difficult enough and, you know,

comedy is different. Everyone has a different way of doing things. But I really do not like Chris Rock. Yeah, I just find him spastic and loud and quick, but not in a smart way. And he swears too much.

I feel like he's compensating for something. Yeah. But if I was a comic, I would never say that on my show. No, no, no, no, no. And I don't agree with you as a comic, but if I was a comic I would never say that on my show. No, no, no, no No, and I don't agree with you as a comic but as a guy who knows No, I don't know I yeah it is hard not to trash talk I There's so many comics that is it because you see what you're convinced they're doing wrong and just need to express it

Yeah, I just think also it's just like when you you dislike someone's style It's like offensive to you almost because you participate in this do you know what I like? Yeah, have you ever seen other podcasts and you're like why do you do that? Yes? Yeah? Yeah, it just is like that I'm so sense there in comedy too Especially there's a lot of people who like live a certain lifestyle and do certain comedy and you're like I don't There's a lot of people who like live a certain lifestyle and do certain comedy and you're like I don't Respect you as like a human as a man Not a human. Of course, I I afford all humans the dignity they deserve everyone is a child of God But like there's a part of you that's just like

What are you doing? Like you're you're not a good man. Like this is bad Yeah, you suck and and you want to like I don't know. It's hard not to voice that sometimes. I I think I might just be a little naive, but I would say almost every single person I've interviewed, I've liked just as much offset as I've liked them in that chair. Interesting. This may be a couple of people that I'm not so sure, but for the absolute majority. And again, it might be just because I'm naive, but I think it also could be the type of podcast you have

and the quality of guests you invite. You might just be by virtue of what you speak about and who you are, you're just interacting with people who are of that world, and you exist in a world of really kind, charitable, gracious people who are like interested in things that make them better. So even if they aren't a good person, if they're sincerely interested in becoming better, then yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's easy to like see.

Also you are speaking to people who like are asking big questions often and people who ask big questions are usually pretty self-aware and interesting. Okay. So you're like, whereas daily, if you're like trying to have a conversation with someone about theology, like there's something about like when you can just tell someone goes, I don't get it. And they just give up on a huge question, like what the meaning of life is. And you go, what? I don't respect you anymore. Like, what are you doing? How can you not care about this? We won't say where we were but you and I were watching somebody give a talk and you said he's I don't like him He's maybe didn't say that but you see he's trying to sound like he he's he's speaking the way he thinks a male

Speaker should speak or something doing an impression of what he imagines a speaker should be Yeah, so like he was yeah, right that open not just him particular But yeah, yeah that's trap We can all fall into comedians do that a lot to where they're doing an impression of a comedian on stage And so then it becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy where you're doing an impression of yourself people pick up on that It's inauthentic. It's weird. It feels awkward. It feels infantilizing on that. It's inauthentic, it's weird, it feels awkward, it feels infantilizing. Have you ever just like, it's like that youth pastor like, gather around y'all, we're gonna rap about the Lord, and then he's got the guitar, and you're like, ooh, not the guitar, you know? And there's something

fundamentally wrong with a guy with a guitar who wants to talk about Jesus, but you're like, this is so inauthentic, like, and weird. I just think it's that it's that where instead of someone going I'm gonna approach this as myself. They are playing pretend. They have another speaker They're trying to invoke the feeling of that time. They gave that speech instead of saying How did I feel about that speech? How will I convey that in my own personal way? How did I feel about that speech? How will I convey that in my own personal way? There are just you don't understand why people fall into it. 100% want to be not just liked, but effective.

And they know this guy was effective. So I'm going to I'm going to mimic that. And sometimes subconsciously I've shared this before, but my mate, Christopher, when I started speaking back in 2010 or something, he said just is this yours or mine? Yours. He said, don't don't try to sound like Scott Hahn. Don't try to sound like just he said, go out there and be big, goofy. You might not. I can do that. Yeah.

But it was good that he said that because I suppose now I was cognizant. Am I just actually being honest, even if honest isn't as good as I'd like it to be? Yeah, no, totally. It's good. It's better than artificial. Honest is always better. It's than artificial. Honest is always better. It's not ideal. Honest is never ideal, but it's always better. But what's ideal is, what's that,

if you become a knight's hospital or a templar, they say, always tell the truth. And then the next rule is temper the truth with mercy Because the whole truth is often too much for many and I always thought that was so interesting because Have you ever there's this guy AJ Jacobs who did the living the Bible literally for a year and obviously yeah Yeah, and that's a really fun interesting book, even though he does it like he does it literally so there's nothing spiritual happening here it's a very comedic take you know, but um He does he does like a month where he does radical honesty and he like ruins his life

Basically, his wife is very unexcited He I think at one point they're in a pizzeria and him and his wife run into old friends of hers and they're like Oh, we should go on a double date whatever And he goes and he says right to their face, oh, we have enough friends. We won't be doing that because he's doing radical honesty. Hey, you can't do that. So I thought that was interesting. You should tell the truth always, but you should temper the truth with mercy. That's something interesting that I think about how I know.

To me, I think the answer is obviously, but how important is the pause in in comedy, because as a speaker, the temptation is just to be an 11 the whole time. 11, 11, 11. But you you kind of everyone gets fatigued by minute three. Right. Whereas you see these some people like Jordan Peterson would be an example. But comics as well, where they'll talk and they'll pause for a while. And it's almost like the Pause wakes you up, which is the opposite of what you'd think you'd be talking louder will keep people awake, but if you just

Take your time off. It surprises people. Yeah, you want it to be conversational for sure There's also this weird thing where often you tell a joke and the timing of the conversation or the piece is such that you should Keep going but you need to wait for the laughter to abate And so you sort of like do this weird like dance Where you need to stop talking and allow the laughter to roll but then continue as if the timing wasn't messed up That's like a skill that a lot of people don't think about that is in comedy, especially if you're doing really well You know and then on top of that if you're doing really well, often the length of your set gets shorter because people are laughing longer. So you need to adjust for that,

especially if you tell stories. I can't just like cut out a joke. I'm not like a traditional comics. If I'm telling a story and I look down and I'm halfway through a thirty minute story and I only have ten minutes left, I gotta go. Oh, I have to figure this out right now. And so that gets kind of hard. But how much do comics talk about joke theft in the industry? Not that still happening like a lot. People talk about it, but not in terms of stand up.

I don't think anyone's stealing each other's stand up, but people now the joke thievery has shifted over to like oh you took my meme Or you like you took my idea for like this these words I posted over a blank photo like I don't know That's the kind of thing where people are mad about like online content thievery and not so much stand-up Especially because what's popular now with people who are in the middle to lower ranges of comedy, not the professional is crowd work. They're all trying to post crowd work reels to get famous and you can't really

steal crowd work. I mean realize that you don't need to steal crowd work. It's so boring and formulaic. It's like what do you do for a living? Oh, you're you guys are dating. Oh and like it's just like so lame. I'm surprised it does so well. People love it. So is crowd work to comedy. What reviewing like click baity things on YouTube is to podcast 100% 100 million percent. It's it's it's not respectable and it's easy, but it is a part of it So you have to give it its due but then you as me as a comic I get exhausted by it And then it makes me not want to do it Which is unfair because it is a part of stand-up comedy and I should partake and I should post those rails

Probably they would help me and people like them, but I see people I don't respect leaning on the crutch and I go I hate it and then that's an ego thing Why am I doing that? Who does crowd work? Really? Well, though, is there anybody that you like? Wow this Phil Hanley. Okay, Phil Hanley is a guy who does incredibly good crowd work And he's been doing crowd work well since before it was popular So he's the guy I would point to to be like this guy right here makes him good at it. He's just he's just quick. He's interesting. He's doing it in such a way where it's like there he is. He's a male model by the way.

Yeah, yeah, is a good looking bloke as they say yeah Um, yeah. So, um, he just does it in such a way that's like very authentic. He's clearly listening. He's quick. Um, yeah, it's just, it's just like not surface level. Whereas a lot of people who are doing crowd work, you can feel them reaching anything, please. And you know what it is to Crowd work is easy to it can get away from you very easily Unravel and um if you pay attention, I'll ruin crowd work reels for everyone watching pay attention Is the comedian being funny or did the audience do something funny very often the audience? Creates the funny situation and people laugh because of what's happening in the audience. The comedian did not facilitate that in any way outside of beginning the conversation.

Phil Hanley is a good crowd work person and so is someone like big Jay Okerson who no one listening to this should look up because he's wildly filthy. um these guys are good at crowd work because the crowd isn't funnier than them they are the ones saying the funny thing sometimes the crowd is funny sometimes the guy says something and everyone laughs and that's very fun and it's a part of it but very often when you watch a reel of a like a lower level comic doing crowd work the crowd is funnier than them They're not saying the funny thing the crowd is funny anytime as a comic someone else is funnier than you don't post that I mean like yeah, you what are you doing? So that's my problem any time. I watch a crowd work reel I go Hmm the crowd was funny. When are you gonna be funny? Haha? Yeah

I'll know I'll take that into account from now on when I watch that. If I do, if you do. Yeah, I don't know if I actually didn't even know what crowd work was until he said it, but I get it. Yeah. What's interesting about stand up comedy is in a way nothing's really changed as far as the equipment is concerned. Or you have a stage and a microphone. Yeah, I love that. Some comics are like, give me some props.

Yeah. Or a musical instrument, but I am Well, there's a fella on dry bar who has slides Yeah, he was so funny very slides are fun that's kind of fun Yeah, especially when you tie it into you being a nerd and you're showing Venn diagrams. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah What's it Pete Holmes has a joke that I love where he's like, I'm so stupid up until now I thought it was a Sven diagram like it was a Viking being like this is pillaging And this is burning and this is us right here in the middle. It's very good joke man Pete killing it Do we bring up last time his joke about masturbation?

No, you know what it is. No, it's so excellent. He's Certainly not recommending everything he says all the idea. Yeah, yeah, but he says um, you know, like if you masturbate that's double gay Not only are you giving a handjob to a man? You're receiving a handjob to a man you're receiving a hand job yeah that's pretty good but the reason I love that is it that goes back to what we were saying earlier about like showing how pathetic these sexual sins really are yeah yeah that does that well he does another one where he talks about like a woman trying to sleep with him and he's like just because I'm a man doesn't mean I want that like I'm

contemplating my relationship with my father get away From me like it's very good. I got stuff going on. Yeah, I like him. I think I would like him as a human being he seems Yeah, yeah, he's very cool And he's he grew up I think in evangelical and then he kind of fell away But kept his spirituality which is like kind of a groaning sort of eye-rolling thing But yeah, he did get way into like Ram Dass and stuff who these people are just like charlatans. I dislike that immensely the idea of like a guru. Okay, that's always bad.

You have a podcast, don't you? Or do you do it for driver? I've seen you. Oh no, I don't have a podcast right now, but I am starting one. It'll be called backyard rodeo. It'll just be sort of, it'll be a lot of me by myself talking about history and nerdy stuff. And it'll be me interviewing people sometimes. But I did go on Dry Bar's podcast a couple of times. Very fun. But yeah, they have a podcast in studio.

And since now I'm living in Utah, I just like pop in there sometimes. Are they doing well? Yeah. Dry Bar, are they growing? Yeah, I think they are. I think they're doing very good. Their offices are crazy. They've got saltwater fish in there. So they're doing something right. Yeah. And I know that they produce a bunch of crazy shows that I, they produce Cabrini. They, they had something to do with it. I saw a bunch of signed for a bunch of people there asked me if I'd watched it because a lot of people who work

there LDS, because it's in Utah And so they were like I didn't realize that Angel Studios was the the same outfit Angel Studios and Dry Bar are the same place. That's the exact same studio all the same executive It is the same place Fellow who started Angel Studios, so maybe when I I should I would love to come out to your special I know I already said, yeah, yeah. 100% to that. And I'd love to meet him as soon as I know when it's going to be filmed, I'll let you know. And while I hang out, it'll be a great time.

How do you prep for, do you need to get away from everybody and just get in the zone? Zero prep. Anytime I do a show, I'm literally being regular playing a video game on my phone, talking to someone, ignoring whatever and they go, you're up and I just walk right onto stage. Yeah. And that's obviously worked for you. Yeah. That's not you just being lazy. No, no, that's how you know, I just work. It's time to be professional. Let's go. Like there's nothing, there's no like weird sort of prep for me.

I've always been like that. And then, um, I, it's very important texts coming in. Everybody. Uh, I think it's a, I'll hold over from baseball because I like, I played baseball a lot as a kid and it was always like baseball's like a tough guy sport, at least it was for me. And so like baseball players are like wildly stoic and stuff. So it would be like, before you're about to bat, you would just be shooting it with the boys and be like You're up and now everything depends on you and you would just like walk right up and do it Yeah, so I think that I've just like that's a hold. I always really loved that

Yeah, there's something about like the the like and now it's all up to me who even cares like you just get up there And duel with the pitcher, you know, I think there's something cool about that You have to meet people who have an elaborate preparation before getting most comics. Really? Yeah, we had this one most comics I mean there are people who like need to be alone with a notebook and they're like reading through their whole act But they've done it a hundred times You know There are people who can't eat for hours before they perform or they feel bloated There are people who need to be a certain amount of drunk

Oh, which is very bad. You don't do that. What are you doing? Um, Yeah, there's all kinds of weird stuff There's people who like have to have certain clothes who need to be like I need to be showered and Cleaned up and perfect and dress exactly the way I want and they're early and relaxed and the lights need to be this low Like they have so much. I kind of like that. Yeah, I hate that I like it, but I do kind of like that's interesting Yeah, especially if it works for them. Yeah, you know if it's actually working for you and and you're the person everyone's coming to see Feels like you should be catered to I've always been the exact opposite You're the person everyone's coming to see feels like you should be catered to I've always been the exact opposite

Even when I was a kid like if someone was like the flagpole after school I would just be so normal and then like Literally walking out of the fight like take my backpack off Hey, I have to fistfight real fast and then just get into that fight and then put my bag back on and I'm back to Business, you know, I've never been like I guess if I can't control it. Why worry about it? Yeah, so I just go right on but it's helped me a lot because being a professional comic isn't being funny It's being funny on the worst day. Oh That's good. Yeah, they don't pay you to be the best they pay you to be good. No matter what Yeah, so, you know

I've always that a lot comes up as a comic, like my first show back on tour this year, my plane was so delayed that the show had to start like 45 minutes late. And then my plane landed. Someone was on stage going long. I had to sprint to my rental. Like I'm drenched in sweat. Get into my rental. Drenched in sweat get into my rental. Well, someone's going long. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm leaving the Tampa Air I literally drifting out of the Tampa Airport in like my freaking tiny Honda or whatever. I'm on the freeway It's slamming rain. I'm going way too fast. I'm like breaking every law you can break in, Florida I get to the I literally pulled up to the club parked illegally just got out of my car Get to the I literally pulled up to the club parked illegally just got out of my car Soaking wet drenched in sweat with my bags drop them in the showroom and just walked right onto stage Didn't even put another shirt on no, how did you explain being drenched with I just told them what happened You know, I was like my flight was late. I got under my car

I broke every law on the way, you know And I just did my act and then I think that that skill is like what being a professional is, you know? So it's just about doing it. Yeah. Not needing to be overly coddled. In. Yeah, exactly. Do you think you could if everything was going wrong and the guests were sitting here, could you just walk in and be like, well, that's a really good question.

I guess it would depend on what it meant by everything going wrong. Like if I, you know, had a big fight, let's say with a friend or something was going bad with my child or something like that, and I was worried about them, I think it would be difficult because I really try to create an environment where we can both be sort of open and honest. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And so it would be hard if that was on my heart to then not have that come out.

You know, I think it would come out for me on stage. You'd actually start. Yeah. Yeah. I think once right before I went on stage, my mother called me and was like, Hey, your grandpa's on the hospital. And I was like, this is the worst possible. I'm literally going on stage right now. My mom was like, I had no idea. I'm sorry. And when I got on stage, I just ended up doing like 15 minutes of material by my grandfather. You know, I was just like, well, I'm still going to go up and I'm going to do the best I can,

but I might as well just get this out. So you didn't kind of share my grandfathers in the hospital. Yeah. But I just kind of like spoke about like, you know, I just spoke. What was just got it out, you know? So yeah, sometimes it's tough. Like when I was getting, uh, I was married once and I was getting divorced in my ex wife worked at the comedy club. So I would have to do comedy in front of her while being divorced and she was like with other men and stuff. It was brutal and, and

the owner of the comedy club was like, you can't speak about her. She works here. So I had no out. I just had to perf. so that was where I earned my acting chops. I would literally be crying I'm not joking I would be crying and I would be like, okay Okay, get it together and I would like be like clear eyes and I'd be like slapping myself on the face and then I would Go do 30 minutes open for a guy get off stage and I would just go to my car And it's just like breakdown weeping drive home and I would do it again the next night like it was really bad but like that's that show business baby yeah get out there and do your job you know if I worked in a factory I still got to go to work tomorrow so like

what am I complaining about I guess the difference is in a factory the busy work you might be doing is somehow different to being on stage and sharing your. Yeah, it does feel extra humiliating and scary to be like emotional or going through something and then to go on stage and like fake it. Yeah, like if you were manufacturing a tank to attack America, and you saw your missus over there, that seems like it would be less difficult. Oh, man.

Yeah. Have you thought already about putting together a sort of Christian or Catholic set? Yeah, for sure. So much content. Yeah. It must just be an untapped. Yeah, there's a crazy amount of stuff I'd like to talk about. Of course, I'm working on the hour I have now, so I haven't really written a lot of new stuff, but even the hour I have now has nods to

salsism in it. Like I do this joke about going ghost hunting with my mom. That's what my new specials mostly going to be about this big long story about going ghost hunting with my mother where she like challenges me to go ghost hunting and we have like a paranormal experience and like ghosts are real. And if ghosts are real, what does that mean for spirituality and religion and all that other stuff? And I make jokes about Catholicism in there

and reference it. And I think it's just funny how that like very naturally took place, you know? And so it's been good. I do wanna do like actual jokes like I feel like you want to. I feel like you want to make fun of your beloved Catholic faith in the way you would make love of a dearly cherished friend. You know, because there are people who rib you, but they rib you too much or they're too disrespectful as they make fun of you.

You know, you don't love me actually. Now you're just being mean. Exactly. And you could see that line there. It's like you want to kind of make fun of some of the absurdities about the way Catholics act and interact and do things exactly But you don't ever want to mock the beauty of the faith true there the Bible is also an untapped. I feel like I would For a show what would be so fun would be to go through the Bible Okay, and talk about your favorite stories and sort of and and so doing teach them like the six covenants. You know how the Ricky Gervais famous atheist comedian, he went through a bunch of the Bible

and made fun of it. How ridiculous and stupid is this and stuff? I would almost love to go through starting at Genesis and like sort of be like, uh, make fun of people who make fun of it, you know, but also talk about how silly it is, you know when people are like You know They take it so literally and to like make jokes about how God made light and time at different points So obviously it's like poetic and you're like how silly could you be? I I don't know There's yeah, and there's so many funny Bible stories like the I can't remember that his name

But he gets made fun of by a group of teenagers and then a bear attacks them I remember someone yes someone Reference that to me. They're like, how can you be Christian? What about this Bible verse and they talked about they showed me the Bible verse I went and looked it up and these kids make fun of this guy and then bears attacked the kids and I'm like You're just making me more Christian. I don't know what you thought. That's awesome awesome What are you talking about? I wish bears would attack groups of children who demean me. What do you like? That's great It's so funny get where it is in scripture Yeah, it's improv not that one but in proverbs Maybe it talks about like not putting us you may not put a stumbling block in front of a blind man

Yeah, you're like who did that? Who thought that was funny? They made a leash for being circumcised. Oh, dude, see, that's so funny. It's so funny to be making fun of some guy for being circumcised. I'm like, oh, no, a bear. It's just like it's so funny to me. It's that guy.

Someone referenced that trying to, like, hurt my faith. And I was like, you're just making me happier I don't know what to tell you this out Leviticus 1914 you must not curse the deaf Who would do that? He can't even he Or place a stumbling block before the blind who is doing that? That is he doing oh turning around a high five his friend. He's like no no I'm not high-fiving that that was really loaded They're table-topping blind guys or whatever someone had to do that for going to be like please please don't

What are you doing? It's so funny. It's also clearly like a verse about how you shouldn't you shouldn't demean the disabled Yeah, that's not in general. It's so fun. I love Ricky Gervais's line about they say you shouldn't punch down. Well, if it's a midget, I have to punch down or else the little bastards going to get me. Yeah, I love that. So I would like to do more Catholic content, more like content that just has to do with faith and is fun in a way that I think

maybe other people haven't been doing. I would love to like take absurdist storytelling and apply it to like the Bible and faith for sure. How interesting would it be to like write comedy about the true presence in the Eucharist? You'd have to show me what that looks like. I know. That's the thing. It's like, I don't know what that looks like, but just to think about like doing jokes that's the thing is like I don't know what that looks like but just to think about like Doing jokes that talk about that is so interesting to me like how how would one even do that because it can be done and it could be like

Evangelical in a way where you're evangelizing but also in a way that's just funny and In thoughtful, you know because I do that with other stuff and I've seen other comics do that. Like Mike Bir biglia does that quite a bit in his comedy where it's like he talks about something like, you know, cheating on his girlfriend and how like immoral and wrong that was. But in talking about that lesson, he's very funny the whole way through. He has one of my favorite lines in all of comedy where he's talking about being at this comedy club and the waitress tries to sleep with him

and he has a, he's in a committed relationship and he sleeps with her and then the whole audience isn't expecting him to have said that and they gasp and they go, and he goes, yeah, I know, I was there. And like, it's just like the way he's admitting like, this was a horrible thing and I know you know about it was, I was there. And like, it's just like the, where he's admitting like this was a horrible thing. And I know you know about it was, I was there. I agree with you.

I was so bad. And it's like, that's a very, um, difficult thing to do, but like very possible. Well, I love how you say, um, I, I think getting my face tattooed was bad, bad idea as well. Just so we're on the same page. That, yeah, yeah. Such a great line. Yeah, I always like to do that where I'm like, we are understanding. I'm not not understanding. Man, have you checked out Exodus 90 lately?

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more about St. Michael's Lent. That's Exodus 90 dot com slash Matt to join us for Saint Michael's Lent starting August 15. I have something to tell you about. All right. Me and Thursday came up with a plan. Okay. Can we did a thing? I'm nervous. Where am I in the right spot? What about me? All right. So me and Thursday did a thing, right? Mother Natalia, do you know her?

Yeah. Okay, so she's this Byzantine nun. I don't have to tell you all about it. Christ the bridegroom convent. And so, or so we for Valentine's Day bought all of the nuns there, a dozen roses. And so we were like, oh, this is lovely. And then a bunch of them were like, I've never

received roses before. And it was really sweet. And then I was kind of like, I wrote Mother Natalia like a letter, and it was all very lovely. And it was obviously very platonic, but it's a romantic gesture. It's Valentine's Day. They're these beautiful women, and they deserve to be loved and and all the stuff and then both of us were like

What if we tried to get every nun in the world a dozen roses for Valentine's Day? All right every Valentine's Day and so then we were like well We have to enact some sort of plan. Yeah in order to get people to be buying these nuns roses and so we need to Basically, that's where we're at We that's what we got so far That's what we got so far is that every nun in the world needs to get a dozen roses next Valentine's Day and so we need to start some sort of organization or

Plan where all of us have to be responsible for a nun okay yeah and we need to get them all a dozen roses for Valentine's Day I love this I think it could work if we had some sort of sophisticated website that was showed different convents and how many sisters were in exactly but you wouldn't want to give away their identity or even necessarily no no no no We just need to know the number of sisters Yeah, and then we just need a checklist like I got them the roses so that we know but in the meantime Just think about it if you're watching this and you're like oh you could you could do that

You can just send nuns flowers Yeah, and it does make them very happy. Although I wonder if it might lose its personal touch. If it was just remote through a website and you found out there was a convent here and yeah, you signed up for one. True, true. So that's why we need to, we need people to take personal responsibility in order to achieve this, yeah. You know, write them a letter, a personal note or whatever, you know, if you know how like, um, kids

send letters to soldiers and they're like, good luck fighting the bad guys when they draw a crayon drawing of a guy and he's firing at an Iraqi tank. Do you remember that? No, but I was in the military. I remember they did. That's a real thing. Like elementary school kids would write you letters and they literally be like, good luck in the war. And you're like, thanks Kyle.

It's gonna be like this, but good, you know, it's like this, but correct. So yeah, that's our plan. I love that idea. I feel like if we could institute this maybe just at least for the for the listeners of this this podcast Maybe we could come on in January and come up with a plan That's what I list out different convents and and people kind of take responsibility Yeah, you know and so we're like, okay This is that but I would like people to like truly give someone like Valentine's Day experience write them and it obviously this is not like

Romantic and like the sense that you're trying with yes You can send someone a love letter without being weird. Yeah, you can send a platonic love letter your enemies are my enemies I will kill whoever slanders you exactly exactly. That's what I write in mother Natalia weekly I go you tell me, tell me anyone who's going to hurt, please tell me somebody offended you so I can find them. Yeah. And so I just think it's really beautiful to do something like that for them. I love it. I've, I've, as I've finished my conversion and now I'm a Catholic and stuff, I feel a deep, weird appreciation for nuns where I'm like,

they're the most important piece of the puzzle They're the most underrated. Yeah truly like what they do is so important to me every time I see a nun at the airport I'm like, what can I buy you? Do you need a drink? What do you need and then? We IP track all mean comments on the channel directed at mother Natalia. We are hunting you currently actively, yeah Minecraft comments on the channel directed by mother Natalia we are hunting you currently actively yeah um minecraft so yeah there's I don't know I just think it's great so there's something about nuns very specifically is just so beautiful prayer is so important they're doing something so special that I'm like let's let's like show them the love I feel that way about priests too but I I'm like, let's let's like, show them the love. I feel that way about priests, too. But I I'm definitely with clergy.

I'm more like trying to as man to man sort of be like, hey, thank you. Like, you know, I have like personal friends who are priests. Here's how I think it's done. Here's how we get this going. I think. All right. So next Valentine Day comes. Maybe we try to find. Twenty somewhat popular convents in the United States. And then we come on here and we invite someone to take charge of that particular

convent and to find their own team of people. Yes. Right. And then we have them email us and explain to us how it went or something like that. You got to start small. That's a really good idea.

But if we could start with just 10 or 20 convents next, you know, Valentine's Day. Operation. I intentionally and have always intentionally never wished my wife a happy Valentine's Day. What? Yeah, I refuse to. In fact, if I can leave her on Valentine's Day,

I will do that. That's, yeah, let me explain why. I don't like secular culture telling me to do something nice. Oh Okay, so I'll intentionally do that thing a week before or a week after I try to do it all the time I like her. She's a little she's awesome We go on dates every week But I do not like that secular culture telling me to have a romantic night with my wife

I go to hell I used to do the opposite Where would be Valentine's Day and I'd be like you want to celebrate some religious Oh, I don't need religion to tell me to love you and like kind of like shirking off be like here's a flower You know you don't care about. I love you year-round That would be wrong I get that So long as you're actually putting in the effort, but just not when the second two guys doing the same thing for different reasons Now now I love Valentine different reasons. Now, now I love Valentine's day. Yeah. I think especially after living in New York,

there was like for all the negative things I could say about New York Christmas and Valentine's, it's like, you can feel the city doing those holidays like on Valentine's day in the city, you can feel people being in love. It's almost hard to explain. It's not, it's really beautiful. And so you could do so much with, sorry, I'm jumped. My ADD brain just jumped to a different topic. You could do so much about saints stories,

like in your comedy act. 100%. For my podcast, I want to just go over and like do overviews of saints and make it silly and just talk about their histories and how cool. And so many saints are so heavy metal It was a felic would st. Vitalis of Gaza who would as a monk hire himself out as a day laborer Yeah, each night hire a prostitute so she wouldn't have to sleep with anyone that yeah

Yeah, and would just read the office pray the Psalms you talk to her. That's pretty cool Yeah, that guy rocks and then there's also like the heavy metal like st. Long Janice or whatever who's like He's the Roman soldier that Put Christ out of his misery. Okay, he's sabs Christ of the spirit of destiny And then he's like blind. Is it good the spirit of destiny? Yeah, that'd be a great metal band name Yeah, I've been told it's the spirit of destiny. I don't know So he stabs him with a spear His lungs were filling with liquid because he was being crucified the liquid and blood splashes onto his face

He had bad vision. His vision is cured instantly this Roman soldier immediately comes to the realization that he's killed God and Becomes Christian on the spot. And then he goes to preach up north somewhere in like Turkey, modern Turkey, and he's preaching to these pagans and they don't like it. So they beat him, hold him down and cut his tongue out. And then he resists them, overcomes them, goes into their temple with a hammer. He could have ran away and tried to survive. He could have run away to try and preach another day or do any number of things.

With his tongue cut out of his mouth, he went into their temple with a hammer and started smashing their idols and he said, now we'll find out whose God is real. I can't remember the exact quote, but it's so heavy metal and so sick. Like it's so tough to be like, oh, you cut my tongue out. I refuse to escape. Now I'm in your church smashing your idol saying, we'll find out whose God is real. I mean, you know this already, but you could do an entire half hour or an hour just doing saints in chronological order. 100%.

So you pitch it like you're teaching them a lesson in hagiography. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But and so you begin with the bear story and you just make you people would be fascinated because they want to know about science and yet you're being hilarious at the same time. That is a really good idea. I would love to do that. So that was my idea when I bombed a Valentine's day talking about St. Valentine. Yeah. You know, cause the whole thing where he, he sort of like has this,

uh, I can't remember the story exactly, but he's, he gets put in jail and they're going to execute him and then he heals the jailer's daughter and starts a friendship with her and he's trying to get her to convert and, write like love letters to each other but like he's chased and he's in prison. So like it's just like Basically him healing her and they're like sort of friendship and how it develops and then she calls him my Valentine Which is where we get that from okay, but then then he's martyred but like the whole story is really interesting But that kind of stuff is like there's so many things exists, but people don't even know even Catholics know about these stories. Yeah. Yeah. Bring that to light in an educational way.

I always feel like I have an easier job than you because I get up to preach, right. Yeah. Yeah. Proclaim the gospel or teach something. So people are there just to be taught. Yeah. They're not they don't expect to be laughing. So if I can make them laugh, it's all the better. Yeah. But for you, they expect you to make them laugh. That's gonna be a lot more difficult. But if you could pitch this as an educational thing.

Yeah. Dude, it would be the best. Kind of a one man show almost. Yeah. Less of a thing. I would like to do that. That's kind of the idea for my podcast for sure. Is to just approach these topics kind of free form

and make them silly. You could come up with like a handful of prayer cards for each of them. Oh yeah. And give them away at each of these talks or something. Oh, that would be fun. Yeah, I definitely need to work on something like that. It would be cool to do like a year-

Do you hate when people try to give you material? I'm sorry, I don't know that. No, no, no. Well, firstly, you're not technically giving me material as much as we're, it is funny that- Trying to come up with a structure of a cool- People are watching us do like what creatives do to like the beginning of whatever ideas they have. like we're just sitting here pitching ideas to each other

It's the end of the park Hey, if you've made it to the end welcome to the creative process y'all It will be funny because I truly feel like I'm going to do something like that. It's such a good idea So anyone watching this like eight months from now is gonna be like whoa. There's the show thing. They were talking about Yeah, wouldn't that be a made Like 25 saints you've never heard about or something like that. Something like that, yeah, just anything. It could be great.

I'm really excited for it. I'm definitely gonna do something like that. But there was my sister just writing to me. Her sister is, since this is the end of the podcast, my sister is, by end, I mean the part where we've given up, my sister, and by that I mean, my sister is moving here, just moved here. Oh, nice.

Her husband's American and they've already bought a house in Steubenville. And that's a family tradition. I'm an American, huh? And to move to Steubenville. And to move to Steubenville. Yeah. So super pumped to have her in town. Well, I must be a member of your family, because I plan on marrying an American as well. And moving to Steubenville.

No, I don't know about moving to Steubenville. But someone was I'm justville, but someone was, I'm just going to say someone was stabbed outside of my house. Yeah, Steubenville. I don't mean to joke about it. It's terrible. But I woke up at 1230. This this this this rarely I said never happens.

People are hardly ever stabbed outside my apartment. It's no, never. Yeah, I work out this 1230 at night and there was about 10 police officers walking around the street with flashlights. I'm like, what's going on? So I went down. What's that? They said, yeah, they caught the fella and they were looking for his knife.

That's crazy. And I thought to myself, you know, he could just use another knife, right? Like, yeah, this is a joke. Yeah, this is why I'm not a comedian. I was like, we need to find the knife so he doesn't kill anybody again. Yeah, another knife like shit, Lieutenant. He could use another knife. We have a we have a double knife situation But yeah, that's how I woke up at 12 30 in the morning wild

Interesting this stuff. I'm true. I love that you call it 12 30 in the morning. Oh, yeah, cuz for me It's 12 30 at night. I go to bed at 2 a.m. Every day Do you really yeah, yeah, yeah, you still deal with insomnia a little bit Yeah, not as bad as it was, but still pretty bad. What do you do to offset that or to make it less bad? So I used to try all sorts of things, but nothing has worked. So instead of trying to medicate it,

I've given up and I've just tried to live with it in such a way that where if you it. Yeah, then it's just easier Yeah, it's not as frustrating whereas like before if I was laying down and I could I lit So I have real and a lot of people are like I have insomnia and what they mean to say is like they're just Not sleeping or they're staying up doing other things. I have insomnia for real, which means I am Exhausted I want to sleep. I am exhausted. I want to sleep. I am tired. I literally can't focus.

I'm miserable. And I close my eyes to rest, and no sleep comes. Like I'm trapped in my body. And so I used to just rage against that. I would just lay down and hope I would go to sleep over time. Now if I feel like that, I just simply am up. I just get up and I start doing things and I find that that will help me sleep better Sometimes I don't sometimes I sleep every other day

So just is what it is. Yeah, so but I've gotten a lot better. I also think that um Having like people around a lot I spend I live with a lot of people right now and I also spend my time with a lot of people so like that has helped me where I'm not alone as much and so when everyone else is on a schedule I'm sort of on their schedule a little bit like everyone's like oh I'm going to bed and it like helps me wind down whereas before I was just kind of like left to my own devices in my room by myself just like with my three monitors and my record player going

And I've got a book laid open while I'm playing a video game like and listening to a YouTube video probably not great Yeah, so I mean I just got back from Austria, so I'm dealing with jetlag and When I wake up like at 3 in the morning, and I wake up hard. That's not like oh, I'm waking up It's like Bing Bing. Yeah. Time to do things. And you must feel like that all the time. It feels like that. Yeah. But I've learned like, hey, don't don't open the laptop.

Don't check your phone even to listen to peaceful music. Don't do any of that. Just lay there. This works for me, not for somebody with insomnia. I just I just got to lay there and pray and hope hope that I fall back to sleep. But it is I mean, it's hard to be satisfied with exhaustion. I'm so sorry. Yeah, it's tough. Have you tried drugs or? Yeah, I mean, legal drugs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have even what's the deal with PCP? You know, here's good things. No, I, um, I did a little bit and they like didn't work or they would work for like a week and then they would stop working. And I'm like, I refuse refuse to take ambient or anything like that I'm just so uninterested in that. Yeah, so I have taken some stuff that has like helped but like it's just It's so in there. Are you tired of people giving you suggestions and what could help?

No, what I'm tired of is people being like well, have you stopped looking at your screen? You drink a lot of caffeine It's like well, I've stopped drinking caffeine for months, multiple times in my life. It does not. I, I know my body, it's not working. So I don't like when people condescend to me about it. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. Especially when they're like your caffeine intake. And I'm like, I gave up. Like I didn't drink soda for Lent, which is crazy. Cause I drink like two 12 packs of soda a day. That's impressive that you're not fat. It was diet

It's impressive you have teeth The sugar rots your teeth not the carbonation. Yeah, but I mean what the stuff that's in that surely that's rotting your teeth I don't think it is no no no my teeth My teeth do fall out sometimes so that's not great. Oh My teeth do fall out sometimes so that's not great. Oh. But I also. Yeah, Aspartame, that's not good. I'm doing a lot of boxing and teeth specific activities.

I'm gonna ride a bull this summer. I'm sure that'll be great for my teeth. Are you prepared? How does one prepare to ride a bull? There's some training you can do and obviously you gotta work out a lot, limber up. But there's a lot of like specific training and then you ride like a smaller, like less angry bull who's not like the bread broken legs.

Yeah, that's not bread to kill you like the other bulls are. But yeah, I've when I was young, I rodeo'd and as an adult, I would like to get in there and do some rodeoing. So I'm going to see how it goes. I have started. Sauna in and cold plunging, which I get is the new thing. But I don't care. It's great. It's listen, it speaks for things are popular because they work.

Exactly. Oh, they're good. Yeah. So I we've been we've been doing it in Austria, my wife and I every a couple of times a week. And what I didn't realize is that the cold plunge is so necessary. Now I see the sauna without the cold plunge is like having a cigar without a lighter. Why would you bother? Just you both. So me and John Henry did this last night, you know, 15 minutes, cold plunge, sit, 15 minutes, cold plunge, sit.

And it really just relax me, relaxes me. Yeah, totally. Yes, we're ready for bed, which is so weird. They would jump in freezing cold water. Yeah, I have the opposite at my house. I have an inflatable hot tub that we built a shed around. Okay.

And then we put some lights in there. That's nice. And so it's very redneck. And then we have a horse trough. That's what I have for my cold plunge. Nice, yeah, yeah. I buy like five, 20 bag, 20 pound bags of ice right before. and I have for my cold punch. Yeah. Yeah, I like five twenty bag Twenty pound bags of ice right before and I throw it in with frozen and you have like one of those like metal

Trucks. Yeah, that's what I have to it's good from rural King. Yeah. Yeah, and then in Utah It's like winter six months out of the year. So yeah, most the time it's cold. Yeah, it works out. It's great I would never have thought I would have liked it. It just sounded awful. And I had a friend here, Rob Pretzel, who I love, amazing guy. He was always inviting me to cold plunge. I'm like, no, please stop talking to me about that. That sounds awful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But now I love it. Yeah, it's really good for you. Like the inflammation it takes away is like wild. Really? Yeah, yeah. I think it's just so good. I have like problems with my back sometimes sometimes and cold plunging is like the cure So also stretching just be limber everybody, especially if you're over 30 gotta start stretching if you're over 30. Yeah But yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think it was a Babylon B article that said scientists show that after 30

It's just back pain and dieting until death or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, I was doing back pain and dieting in my twenties. My back is hurt since I can remember. Yeah. Do you have back stuff? I have, I find that I have to like I do this a lot more than I used to. That's a funny thing where you're always like I make noises that I didn't. I make dad noises like when I get up, I'm like, and I make it and I find myself involuntarily doing it. And it makes me self-conscious. I have this really weird way of like stretching my lower back.

It's going to sound so bizarre and slightly sexual as I explain it. But I'll put my butt up against a flat wall and I'll spread my legs out on that wall and I'll just spread them as far as I can and then I'll lift my back up and it all pops and it stretches out your um I'm gonna need you to show this to me after because this sounds great Maybe we'll take a photo post it to Instagram and not explain what we're doing and once this goes live they'll still not understand why I would ever do a thing like that Both of us against walls just trying to- oh yeah Yeah I'm gonna show. It's really good.

Cause that does help with my lower back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that we're like as men complaining about our lower backs and women are like giving birth to multiple children, their hips are dislocating. The lower backs can't be great. And we're like, yeah, yeah, make noises when I get up. It's pretty hard. Women are like going through the worst things imaginable and we're like, I'm a backstage sometimes. I went on a 5k run the other day, a 5k, you know, whatever race.

Yeah. And I did, I did well, I think I beat who I wanted to be. Let's just go. Maybe I just beat the people I wanted to be. I love it. But my knees felt like basketballs for the rest of the day. They were just, they felt, they didn't, I don't think they looked swollen, but they felt so swollen. Interesting.

Yeah, I'm old. Yeah, you gotta, I think a lot- So I did the cold plunge that day. Yeah. You just gotta limber up and, I think a lot of it's consistency too. I feel less old the harder I work. Which is funny, I'll be so sore and I'll be like,

I feel like crap. And then I work out and I'm like well Yeah, I feel better. I yeah, it's like just so stupid that it actually works, you know, but then you're like well I gotta do it because the more you work out the better you feel despite feeling bad Do you stretch it like when you say you stretch do you have a routine? Yeah Yeah, because my lower back is weird because my hamstrings are super tight I've always had like a really strong squat You know like when I was at my strongest I was like clean and jerking 315 or something Which is like all a pretty decent amount of weight people who don't know about kilos. That's like what one?

40 something I don't know. It doesn't matter. I can't do the math, but um It's a decent amount of weight for sure like it's a strong guy amount of weight But like I would then be able to bench like less than 225 Which is so funny like now I've reversed that and I've gotten better at bench But soon my legs have always been so tight that it messes up my lower back and so I do all these stretches Specifically for my lower back every day I should stretch my arms and upper body more but I'm just so focused on my lower back all the time which I'm sure so so so so many men and women watching this are like me as well like all of us have hurt lower backs from sitting in chairs doing this right right or just like I

love to sit crisscross applesauce. I'm doing it now, I gotta stop. I got one leg up. Yeah, I do. I'm always trying to like, I'm the guy who like, if everyone's sitting, I'll get up on top of the table and sit crisscross applesauce.

Like that's how I like to sit. And so that can't be good for my back. I know it's not. When I started, I don't do CrossFit anymore, but when I did it four or five years ago, when I started, I couldn't squat even without weight. And I didn't realize that was weird. I couldn't just squat and sit with my knees up. You know what I'm saying? That's wild. Like I would just, I couldn't get below the knees or not much below the knees. And that was because my back was so tight.

That's crazy. Now I can definitely do it. But it was weird thinking I was somewhat in shape. And I guess I'll start this thing and realizing, wow, like you literally fundamentally can't move. Yeah. Hey, let me show you what I mean. It won't be on camera. So it'll be very boring. I'll describe it. I get down to here. He's down. If I started doing this like this. That's crazy. Literally unable to squat. Yeah, yeah. Well, we're working on it now. Well, what do people need to know? People need to know that I'm on tour. Shane Smith, comedy dot com. Excellent. I have shows.

I don't know when this comes out in a well. Whenever you need it to come out, we will make it happen. Okay, well, I mean, I don't need it to come out we will make it happen. Okay. Well, I mean I don't need it to come out I mean I listen I have shows Next week in Texas if you're hearing this in the future, I'm sure Texas was great in Dallas Fort Worth area and I've got like a Tulsa and California in a bunch of other shows set up They can find all of that on your website

They can find all that on my website and then also if you're Catholic, I have a couple shows currently scheduled for June 4th. Let's go and then um yeah so I have a bunch of shows. Let's see oh and if you're Catholic, I am doing a few shows for certain diocese that have like asked me to do events. So who knows? I may just show up to where you're you're at I want to see what your website looks like it's probably not great Shane Smith calm she's with comedy comm she Smith comm is taking a guy. Yeah that billionaire So um I need to get a new website guy actually oh my gosh

This is really cool. Yeah, it's not too bad my old guy did a great job It's a shame. He wants to do other stuff Yeah, this is you that doesn't really look like you yeah, that's me wearing a quaff a chainmail quaff Is that how we pronounce that with a sword and some warhammer miniatures really just letting people know what I'm all about. Um, but yeah, so go check out my website, come see me live. Hopefully I'm performing at a seminar or some kind of thing near you. I just, uh, yeah, so that's kind of what's going on with me. And then what else? I'm going gonna start a podcast called backyard rodeo

I'm releasing some clothes soon in conjunction with ritual port print co which is owned and operated by The guy from sleeping giant and holy name Tommy green Which is two bands that were really important in my conversion and are still important to me today. Tommy is Orthodox so he's one of our Eastern brothers and sisters Um him and his wife are great But they own this print shop and they're very Christ forward and everything they do and I asked to collaborate with them and they're like, of course, and so I'm gonna be putting out merch that is

cool enough that anyone would wear it, but is cool is also Catholic. Does that make sense? And so like our first shirt is going to be, um, a very like hard, a nod to a hardcore trope. It's going to be like a guy wearing a scheme ass with an AK 47, very gnarly looking dude wearing, uh, I used the rosary you gave me with the Byzantine cross on it as the reference, so he's wearing a rosary and it says pray for those who persecute you on it. Uh, so that'll be very cool. So it'll

basically be like heavy metal or cool looking merch that's Catholic forward, but if you weren't Catholic, he'd be like, this is a tough shirt. Like I got a, so I'm working on that. That's what I'm working on. One fellow doing the design. Yeah. Yeah. So we're doing the design at ritual print code. Like, so those guys are helping me with the designs cause I am not an artist. And this is the orthodox and yeah, yeah. Yeah. So this is a bunch of orthodox people who run this place.

Ritual print company. Yeah. Company. So I'm like, now I'm like, okay, look that up and mate. Let's see if it's right, but yeah They're on Instagram and stuff. Oh, yeah there. They are so they're great. Oh my goodness, and they have a shirt right now That is that awesome is supporting their charity run against traffic they do a charity that helps people who are victims of human trafficking. And not in the like obscure internet way

where they're like, donate money, we help. Like Tommy himself has housed victims of human trafficking. He is on the ground doing work. So like all Christians who do charity, he's like hands on making people's material circumstances better as opposed to like most charities, which are like raising awareness, raising awareness or like support our cause, donate money. And then it's like, but how, what, what are you doing with it?

Yeah. Again, one of the main things in my conversion was seeing Catholic charities and being like, you were the only people on the ground, making people's material conditions better. You were meeting people literally where they are physically and being like, here is a sandwich. Are you sad? I will help you. I will listen to you and treat you with dignity. Like, that's so much more important than being like donate to to homelessness. Like what am I helping make people more homeless? It doesn't sound right. Like what do you, this is,

this is nothing growing homelessness. Yeah. Whereas the church is like, we're giving out sandwiches, help us give out sandwiches. You're like, yes, absolutely. We're doing something real and tangible. Yeah, awesome. So well, brother, thank you so much for your time coming on the show and of course, thank you for talking to me for a long time about who knows I cried much less this time. I'm proud of myself. I mean the amount of people who are like sending me screenshots of me crying to

be rude, but also people being sweet too. So I'm like, but neither of you, you can't tell whether I'm supposed to be like defensive or grateful. What the hell do you mean? Oh, you've been crying. You want to, yeah, yeah. Lots of women being like, I thought it was really brave of you to bear your soul. I'm like, I'm not going to marry you. I'm so sorry. All right. Well, thanks so much. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Good to be here. Let's get our backs popped. Yeah. I'll show you. All right, well thanks so much. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Good to be here. Let's get our backs popped.

Yeah, I'll show you. All right.