Pints With Aquinas - Haitian Zombies, Demonic Attacks & Voodoo's Curse w/ Fr. Louis Merosne

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

Father Louis Merosne, a Haitian missionary priest who is transforming lives through education and faith. Born in Haiti and educated in the United States, Father Louis returned to his homeland to serve the poor and rebuild the local Church. He is the founder of Mission to the Beloved, a nonprofit organization dedicated to serving the poor and spreading the Gospel. Despite the challenges of poverty, gang violence, and natural disasters, Father Louis’s faith and determination remain unshaken. Join us as we delve into his inspiring journey of faith, hope, and relentless dedication to his mission. This is a conversation you won’t want to miss! Join our Locals community: https://mattfradd.locals.com/support Show Sponsors: Strive21: https://strive21.com/matt Exodus90: https://exodus90.com/matt Hallow: https://hallow.com/mattfradd 

G'day there. I like that. You could go boss. Hey, yeah, this is it. This is it. How's it going? We're in. Yep. All right. Love this. Whoa, we're back. We have a sea of delicacies. I love it. Italian beer, Italian water. Just realized that. Oh, okay. Um, cigars. That water's from Kroger. Well, I guess this water is technically from Kroger as well. All right. Last time I saw you was it in France or was it after? I feel like it was after because I came to your house that's right. I came to visit for like one quick afternoon I think it was. Yeah. We were hanging out. That's when I learned about

Cameron's new diet. Yeah. And I thought I was like amazed by that. I think, wait, that's real? Yeah. And like, yes, I praise the Lord. She's still doing it eight months in and is it still she's good for praise the Lord. But it's getting weirder. Oh, now she eats raw beef. It's what's disgusting. No, she's like she's a few steps away from a zombie. Like eating flesh. I'll have my wife on the show. She can defend herself. While we're in Austria, we bought half a cow.

They killed it first and then we bought half the cow and filled our freezer up with it. But she'll defrost it and she'll slice it real thin and she will eat raw meat. Okay. See, I don't know if I can go that far, but see the first time she did it, what a good husband I am. I could have said, honey, I'm just a little worried, but instead I'm like, well you do it and I'll see how you react. Then I'll just, I haven't done it cause I just can't bring myself to do it, but she loves it. She puts salt on it. Sometimes she occasionally put a little bit of lemon on it.

Yeah. Oh, she loves it. Well, I mean, people eat raw things like that fish we had in France. I think it was they say great. I mean, great quality beef. You can eat raw really. And I want to believe him. Yeah, I do believe him. I just don't want to do it. Hey, if it's helping Cameron, praise the Lord Like thinking about how weird this is gonna get Is this the end of the line but I feel like this is what happens with these things that become

Invoke and she oh, yeah me Cameron's not doing this to be cool She's doing this because her body will break down right but whenever these vogue things come to the surface They always go increasingly radical right so people on the peripheries of this new thing and look back at the normies and say You're not doing it right. Yeah, so I wonder how long it might be until there is a subset of the carnivore community telling people You gotta be in raw or else technically like you think lions cook their meat. They don't. We're also not lions. Details, details.

So, okay. But I remember when you had to, uh, during the winter you had to get out of here. Yeah. Is that still a thing? I feel like, you know, no, I don't, I don't think it will be because it really is diet. I mean, I think what happens is her bones and joints and everything hurt a lot more in the winter. Right. Um, but then when we go to the summer, like it's in the summer, we go to Florida, she'd still feel bad. Just, just a lot less bad. Right. Right. But I don't know. We'll see.

With this new diet, maybe it'll be helpful. Maybe, please God. We've been gone for eight months. We haven't been gone for five months. Yeah. She gets back soon. Tuesday. All right. And we'll see. Comma Jesus. Yeah, yeah. Your wife's awesome. I just realized with the whole introduction of this conversation is talking about Kim and she's pretty awesome. She really is. Yeah. And I know, I don't know, like sometimes I hear husbands talk glowingly about their wife and I think, okay, whatever. I'm sure she's fine, but just calm down. You know, because everyone's wretched and everyone deals with their own stuff. But no, Cameron's really cool.

I really like her. Yes. Yeah. She is. Speaking of things that I like. Yeah. I didn't realize that I liked beer until very recently. Really? Could you? Thanks. And I think the reason is I was either drinking like these lagers in Australia, which I didn't like a great deal. And then I moved to America and there's a lot of IPAs and things like that. Yes. Which I'm not against in principle, but I never really liked it.

Same. But this, you have a sip of this. You too, I mean. All right. All right. And you're allowed to be honest. You can say it's the worst thing you've ever. It is not the worst thing. I actually like it. I like the bitter.

For me, I wouldn't describe it as bitter. But I would describe it as nature-esque. Not just natural, but I feel like I could taste the field in it. Yeah. They're really, I was staying at a monastery in Austria. Have you been to Garmin? Never. And they've got this beer there in this, it's called Dunkle beer.

It's the greatest beer I've ever had in my life. Wow. Didn't realize I liked beer. Wow. Yeah, well, I have similar things happen to people, missionaries, when they come to Haiti. And where they don't usually like beer or they all think they do. And then they'll get to Haiti and it's so hot. And then you break out a cold prestige. Ah, come on. Yo. Is that your beer? That's the beer. It's like in Haiti, when you say beer, you cold prestige. Come on. Yo. Is that your beer?

That's the beer. In Haiti, when you say beer, you mean prestige. In fact, sometimes people, you go by somewhere. There might be a vendor that carries a couple Heineken's or something like that. But you say beer, you mean prestige. And so people will be like, OK, we don't have any beer. We only have a Heineken.

That's hilarious. Oh yeah. Yeah. And what's it like? Is it more like this? Or an IPA? No, it's more like this. I guess it's more of a lager. Yeah. But it, it's, there is a way that they balance it. Um, you'll find a version in the U S but it's not brewed in Haiti, the one that's in the US. And so we think it tastes different than the one that's brewed in Haiti. But people who go to Haiti, like as missionaries or something, and come back, I'm sure that's all they want. That's all they're talking about. Absolutely. They love that beer. And we also don't have to wait till 5 p.m. to drink it in Haiti.

We don't have that rule. Yeah, now when it's hot outside Thing I agree, you know My hair did I ever know you can take that yes, perfect. Yeah So, let me start with a heavy question. Yes, you recently had some missionaries that were murdered In Haiti some American missionaries. Do you know much about that? There were three. So there were two Americans in Haitian that was with them. They were supporting them. Most people forget about the Haitian. I think it's because I heard about it from her father

on Facebook. This is nothing for you at all. This is how the media brought it up. And precisely because a father who will will and you know, we're familiar with missionaries, etc. And so they have a name and they have a face. It was horrible. And did you know, and I was here, I did not know them, but I was hearing, I don't know how true some of these stories are, but I was hearing some of the kind of backstories as to how it got to that and how they were killed and even some errors that happened. It is, I mean, it's just, it feels so senseless. Of course, you know, murdering people is always senseless. There's no sense to it.

There's no rationale to it. I mean, what I mean by that is that there's a rationale, there's an explanation, but it is not reasonable, right? And so that's it. But that though exemplifies what we've been feeling for the past three years on a more general level, like thousands of people, mostly Haitians, have been murdered by these gangs that have taken over Port-au-Prince.

And they say that 80% of the capital is under their control. And there's not just one, it's not just one gang, there are many gangs, and they're really, really powerful. And they, they have recently, in the past few months, they have recently associated themselves, those who used to fight against each other, now they're fighting with each other, against basically the people. They say it's against the government and the police and all that, but really their target is the people, because the people, the other ones the the innocent ones that they kidnap that they rob that the

The our word which I guess you can't say on YouTube The they and that they'll in murder. Yeah And so we've lost thousands of people to to those hungry monsters, it's Incredible. I have a- Do you know what their rationale was for killing these three missionaries? I cannot say that I know, but I've heard stories.

Or these other people who were dying, these other Haitians who were being murdered. Do they just kind of get in the way, or are they being made an example of for some reason? All sorts of reasons like that. Some of it might be you're going through the street at the wrong time of day and they just start shooting like machine guns and these guys are armed to the teeth more so than the police

and they get their guns most of it from the U they get shipped down and they receive them and there's there is there is a People in politics that help to get those things to them because we don't make guns in Haiti We don't sell guns in Haiti. We don't have any any gun shops You can't go buy a gun legally in Haiti If you if you want to own a gun legally or somebody could make a transfer to you, or you go out to another country, get a permit to buy it, and then bring it back in, go through customs and all that jazz. But these gangs, they're getting tons of weapons and ammunition. I should probably mention this because it's come up so much in the past, but a couple years ago, there was a huge scandal,

in the past, but a couple years ago there was a huge scandal and unfortunately it has tarnished the Catholic Church inadvertently. What happened was our Episcopal brothers, the Episcopal Church in Haiti, they have one diocese, we Catholics have ten, and in their one diocese, Haiti is one diocese for them. They had a bishop, but then he retired, and they didn't have a new bishop, so they had a committee that was set up of priests, committee of priests to an executive committee to lead the church before they can get a new bishop. Well, it turns out some of these guys were corrupt, really corrupt. In the Anglican.

In the Anglican Church, or the Episcopal Church, which is part of the Anglican communion. So one day, customs found a container full of stuff, but in those things, there were guns and ammunition. But it was destined to the Episcopal Church. So at first they were like, no, we don't know what you guys talking about. We're not expecting any containers. So they're like, oh, okay, okay, yeah, so big mistake.

No, after a lot of investigation, they realized, no, it was coming. And these guys, that's not the first time they've been getting guns in and wiring money to somebody in the States to be able to get those guns and then passing those guns on to the gangs. Wow. So obviously a huge scandal and it hurt the whole church I would say. And by that I mean not only the Episcopal

Church but mostly the Catholic Church and even Protestants to some degree because we're all considered church and so people like there's church people and then there's not church people. This is a church people thing that just happened. You guys talk about Jesus and you're supposed to be evangelizing and working for peace. But the thing is- Trying to disassociate from the Anglicans or the Piscopal. We don't know them.

Actually, so here's the other issue, is that our conference of bishops in Haiti, here you have USCCB, the United States Conference of Bishops, right? In Haiti, we have CEH, Conférence Episcopale d'Haïti, the Episcopal Conference of Haiti. We use the same word, Episcopal, and they're the Episcopal Church, we have the Episcopal Conference. So people heard the Episcopal Church, they're like the Catholic Church. And because our conference would put out notes always the Episcopal Conference of Haiti. They think we're the exact same thing, plus the Episcopal brothers, they

they're priests, they're called father, they have parishes, they have patronal feasts, they look like the Catholic Church. And so everyone thought that the Catholic Church was bringing guns into Haiti to murder our own people. And we're the biggest one, we've got ten dioceses, right? And so to this day, so many people still don't know the difference between... They don't know that we didn't do anything like that. So when I... Like, so I'm on social media, especially, you know, and different media, and there's many... Till this day, they will seem like,

why don't you stop bringing guns into the country? I'm like, it wasn't me, it wasn't my church. And it wasn't, to be fair, it wasn't all Episcopal priests. There was a few Bozos, but unfortunately, really bad apples placed in the highest position that they could be placed in the country, in the executive committee. And it's not the whole Episcopal church. So I wouldn't throw away the whole Episcopal Church. And so I wouldn't throw away the Holy Episcopal Church. Well, just joking. Now's your opportunity. Right? But I had to explain that so many times, but I realized they're just not gonna get it. They don't care. And then I'll make a difference. Somebody would realize it, or they'll make an accusation and I'll ask them to prove it. Of course they can't, and then

so they call you stupid. Right. And is the media playing along with this? The media was playing along. Now they're kind of a bit more quiet, because I think they realized the blunders that they did. But when this first came out, there were people literally calling for the heads of Catholic priests in Haiti. There was this guy who, his channel must have had like over 200,000 subs, a Haitian guy, he was literally saying, if you see one of these vehicles a priest usually drives,

stop it, get out your machetes, cut their heads off. Okay, so literally want your head. Oh yeah, literally, like to kill us. And people are calling for that. But the thing is, I think there are some enemies of the church who know the difference, who just didn't care, and they're just taking advantage of that situation to, in order to try to break down the church. But thankfully, the Church of Jesus Christ is strong, and we mess up, we have messed

up, but the Lord always has a way of protecting His church, and it's beautiful, it's powerful how that is. So, so yeah. Did the sex abuse crisis hit scandal, hit Haiti in the way it did much of the Western world? No. So would you say that in Haiti there's like a general sort of reverence towards the priest compared to here? There is.

So you didn't need this. Correct. But I do feel that this general reverence is decreasing a little bit with things like that, like a container full of guns coming into the country in the name of the Episcopal Church, and people are thinking that's us. And people feel like the church has kind of lost her authority. And because of all the crisis, the political crisis in the past, a few, like a couple of decades, they feel like the church used to have greater authority. The church used to be able to, in their mind, stand with the people. They kind of feel now that maybe the church is not speaking out enough. Some people think,

well, what else could she say? And there was one deal that was kind of helped to be brokered by our cardinal and the deal went bad. And so because it went bad, then the people thought it was the fault of the Catholic Church, when they were just trying to help. And so, yeah, so there are some things that happen that make it look like, you know, that maybe we'll have as much authority anymore. Also, I think there are cases of, you hear of cases of brothers who get into a couple different corrupt situations, maybe who father children, but it's not like proven, but people are talking about it and people are like, oh, I know so-and-so has a child, I know the child, stuff like that. So people are talking about it and people are like, oh, I know so and so has a job. I'm like, I know the job, stuff like that. So people are kind of feeling like,

why are you guys putting up a front? Like, stop putting up, so they feel like, okay, you guys are just hypocrites. So there's some of that out there. And of course, we have competition. Their competition used to be, you know, basically, you know, secularism, some secularism, but Haiti is not, I wouldn't say Haiti is like a secular place. Haiti is a very religious

place, very religious. The great majority of Haitians are religious to some degree. They might not go to church, not all of them, but they're religious. They're spiritual people, and that spirituality is divided amongst the Catholics, the many Protestant groups, which could be looked at in some sense like a competition, if you will, especially the fundamentalists. They work hard to get Catholics out of the church, and it's a sad situation, it's a sad state. But they have a concerted effort to do that.

They have a plan. They don't just sit back and say, maybe people will come to our church. They go and get them. And even if they have to lie to them, I've had to deal with that as well. We've got voodoo practitioners. And now, voodoo used to be looked at more

as something that is sort of like a, you know, practice in the dark kind of thing on the margins, even though other people were doing it, but in hiding. More and more it's coming out, and people are trying to promote it academically and certainly on social media. And so, and the argument goes that as Haitians, we ought to be voodoo practitioners,

and we ought to reject Christianity. The white man's religion. The white man's religion. Because they say Europe, they think Christianity was founded in Europe and that Europe is the one that brought Christianity to Haiti. And in a sense, Europe did bring Christianity to Haiti. Of course, not just Haiti, but like the Caribbean and other places through the Americas. Now the fact that the colonists are the ones that brought Christianity gives us a bad note because you come with the sword in the Bible, it's kind of like, well, I guess I have to

believe. You know? Obviously, we have some great saints that were fighting for the rights of the people and also the whole structure, the whole idea of human rights as to, you know, because slavery has existed for all of humanity, right? But there are certain Judeo-Christian principles about the dignity of the human person. When worked out, it is clear that you can't enslave people, which is why I am so proud of our popes.

They've always been on the forefront defending the victims of slavery. Going back to way earlier than the so-called New World, s have to find the name of that document, I think it was in the 1400s, but some blacks, some black natives in the Canary Islands were enslaved and the Holy Father was like, you released them by this date or else all of y'all are excommunicated. Period. You don't enslave people. And that was before, you know, all the craziness going on. The slave trade. Exactly. Exactly.

In America. Yep. Here we go. Secret. Secret. Doodum. Yeah. Thanks. Against the enslaving of black natives from the Canary Islands. That's very specific. I like a title that tells me what it's about. Yeah. Yeah. Not long ago. Should we read much? Sure.

How long is it? You don't want to read the whole thing. I don't think you'll be able to read it. Oh, I see. Pope Eugene the fourth. The fourth, yeah. Thanks for that. Eugene the fourth. Now, and it's been most of the Holy Fathers have been like, if a Holy Father spoke about slavery, it was condemning it, it was saying people should be treated equal because we're created in the image of God.

And so, Christianity provides the language, the concepts, the philosophical underpinning of human rights. And so, even the people today that are saying, in the name of human rights, we should reject this. No, you don't want to reject all of Christianity, because if you do... You don't want to see what comes back at you. Exactly, exactly. But at the same time, they have a right to revolt against preaching about Jesus on the one hand, but yet enslaving people.

Now, there is one pope though, Nicholas V. He's like a mystery to all historians studying this issue, because we have such a clean track record for centuries. Nicholas was what? Nicholas was the one. I'm not wrong with it. And he's the one people would throw in your face. He's like, what did you say? Nicholas. What did it sound like? So there's debate about it.

Carefully you say Nicholas as we talk about slavery plays. Exactly. So it'll actually there's a good book. The St. Paul Center came out with it. Paul Kengger, I think, is the author. I think the worst of iniquities, it's called the Catholic on slavery Yeah, and I saw I just got it. But the first thing I read was about Nicholas the first like what is it with this guy? So it looks like he Wrote to the king of Portugal to let him know Okay, so you could enslave people in Africa. There we go. Yeah, you could enslave them now

Here's the thing though the the slavery in Portugal. Yeah, you could enslave them. Now here's the thing though, the slavery in Portugal, yeah, the idea is... If you find that Pope Nicholas fellow... Yeah Nicholas... Oh this is it, in late spring of 1452 Byzantine Emperor Constantine the 11th wrote to Pope Nicholas for help against the impending siege by Ottoman Sultan Mehmed the second Nicholas could you zoom in a little bit on that Nicholas issued the bull Now you can't find it Then didn't didn't it in Nicholas issued the bull DOOM diverse us authorizing King Alfonso the fifth bring that name back of Portugal to attack conquer and subjugate that word.

Saracens. Saracens, pagans, and other enemies of Christ wherever they may be found. Issued less than a year before the fall of Constantinople, the bull may have been intended to begin another crusade against the Ottoman Empire. Right. So some of the argument, so the word subjugate is what people say, so that's slavery, that's to bring them to servitude. Right. Right. Okay, so yeah, Saracens, Arab Muslims. Now this was a time though when you know there was tension between the Muslims and Christians, etc. And it sounds like some of those groups were

trying to finish off and annihilate Christianity, and she was saying you can bring them to servitude. Some people are saying that actually it didn't say slavery, but to servitude, like what does that mean? Basically to imprison them, and it's hard to say. But nonetheless, it seems to be a dark mark in our history, which is again, weird because before him, Cross your neck. It's completely against slavery. Can you take that white screen down first? After him, after him, we continue this whole tradition. So it really is that what was the context in which he was talking and what exactly did he allow? And some people think he was actually told one thing by the king and his goons, and so

he believed that they needed like some kind of blessing to help fight against the enemies of the church that were trying to annihilate the church and christen them, but really those people themselves are the ones that went ahead with the kind of slavery that we saw play out. So he wasn't blessing the kind of slavery that came out, but nonetheless people see his first permission as the doorway to open up, you know, the slave trade that was happening, etc. But they do think he was kind of like maybe misled, if you will, like he didn't know what he was doing, so they say. So there's a good debate about that. But nonetheless, in Catholic theology, we leave room for the fact that people can make

stupid decisions, even at the highest level. Mason Hickman Sorry, but to your point earlier about why you don't want to get rid of Christianity, I mean Christianity affirms the dignity of the human person. It makes sense that the person has unalienable rights, which come not from government, or from their own willing, but from God. You get rid of God, you get rid of the intrinsic dignity

of the human person. Now try to explain to me why enslaving another person is wrong. Exactly, especially when. You might say, well, we don't work well as a society. Like there might be an argument, like pragm like it. We don't work well as a society. Like there might be an argument like pragmatically why this isn't going to work. But as far as it being intrinsically evil, I don't think you can make that case in the particular context of Haiti and

Haitian apologists against Christianity. What's even more interesting is the fact that if that is the argument use, it proves too much. If to say that, well, because those people used to enslave Haitians, therefore they cannot give us any truth, so Christianity, which they brought over, cannot be true. We shouldn't be Christians. Or in that case, we shouldn't be voodoo practitioners either, because it was the voodoo practicing king in Africa, in Benin, that actually permitted the capture of blacks, of Africans by Africans, to sell into slavery to those people.

So it's like, wait, in fact, it happened so much that recently the government of that country actually apologized and asked people, �Please forgive us.� All people, descendants of Africans in other places that were started from the slave trade, we beg your forgiveness. That should never have been done, right? So basically what I'm seeing is that all you mean originally is universal. Yes. Humanity will find a way to mistreat

others, will find a way to subjugate others, to build ourselves up and to be greedy. That is part of the consequences of original sin. And that's why we need Jesus. Also, it's very interesting that people think Christianity was born in Europe. So one thing I like to say is when people try to pitch Christianity against African spirituality, African ancestry, and I'm like, that's cute. So you want to get rid of Christianity, meaning you want to erase the contributions of Africans in Christianity. Because Christianity reached Africa pretty much at the same time that it reached Europe. At Pentecost we had people from Africa there. In fact, the Ethiopian eunuch that was on his way back from Jerusalem back to Ethiopia in

Africa, he brought the Jerusalem back to Ethiopia in Africa He brought the gospel back to Africa and of course even before that in the Old Testament Of course, I remember Solomon the queen of Sheba that's in Africa. Yeah, so there are relations to this day some in Ethiopia They do believe that they are descendants of King Solomon to this day, right? But more than that Simon of Cyrene African Augustine Augustine the greatest theologian African, Augustine, the greatest theologian, to most people would say the greatest theologian, I probably lean toward Aquinas, but many would say, right? Aquinas would say Augustine is the greatest theologian, the theologian said he's African. And so I made a couple of videos, for example, Athanasius. I said, do you realize how much

Africans had not only accepted Christianity, but modeled Christianity for the rest of the world, even for Europe? Because when a lot of people in Europe were thinking, oh, maybe Jesus is not God, Athanasius went into exile five times to defend the dogma of the divinity of Jesus, right? Athanasius is African, and he was a bishop in Africa, and it was Africa that was telling the world what to believe about Jesus Christ. And so when people try to throw away the whole enterprise, it's like you don't know what you're doing. But because people are informed by TikTok these days. They're not informed by history. And so that's why even some of those some apologists will try to claim to the mythicist view that Jesus never existed kind of thing, the stupidest thing that you hear. And obviously in academia, nobody, no respectable historian,

atheist, agnostic, Christian, Jewish, none will even entertain that debate. Because it's basically like, you know, young earth creationists in academia, they don't really like, that's cute, yeah, you could, whatever. But academia is not talking about that. Like, that question is, in a sense, resolved. Same thing with the existence, the historical existence of Jesus. It's resolved. But people throw it all in as they're trying to find arguments to destroy Christianity, to destroy the Christian faith, especially in the context of Haiti, post-colonial Haiti.

And again, I want to understand the hurts that people have felt and the hurts of seeing the likes of me that were subjugated, right? I understand that. Like, I hate that. I'm not proud of that at all. And I condemn that. Whether it's evils done yesterday in the name of the Church or evils done today, I condemn it.

I don't play with that. And so I understand that hurt and I receive that wound. And so some of those people are really aggressive. A couple of them I've wanted to kind of debate, but then people have helped me to realize that, actually father, you couldn't, because they would get so wild and I can't get a little, my blood can kind of boil a little bit

and I might be tempted to get wild, but I wouldn't be able to. And so I would get frustrated that they're throwing they're yeah throwing out all this so I'm like You know what? Maybe I'll just do better by producing good content allowing people to see it. Etc Well our passions blind us and yes, we often want our passions to blind us I when I was a teenager I threw every argument I could at Christianity all of them were half-baked But it didn't matter. I just wanted to yeah. Yeah, throw they called the shotgun fallacy There's other names are you just so many objections that none of them have to be good

But basically I wanted to have sex with my girlfriend You know, so I'm gonna need Christianity be false and I know that people have sincere reasons Why they think Christianity is false, but very often we are led around by our passions and any reason will do So if we can say that Christianity is based in racism or whatever, we will take that. Yes, exactly. Tell me about Voodoo. The only two things I think I know about Voodoo is that it originated from Africa and the Voodoo doll. But I don't know how part and parcel that is in Voodoo. So what is Voodoo? Right. I've actually I've gotten a couple books to study more. By the way, to, to study more. I do. This is our pints with Aquinas cigar.

I have to have it. It's glorious. It's not a gimmick. I have to have it. We sold out. We sold 50 boxes in a couple of weeks. Yeah. So it's funny, right? There was one time I was watching a punch with Aquinas and I saw a pre smoke. I was like, that's unbecoming of father smoking on, on the air. And then Thursday texted me, he's like, Matt, what's the matter if you want a cigar? I'm like, yes! But.

Well, I remember we were in Lazeur together. Oh, absolutely. And I was walking down the street with my bride and I saw you smoking a cigar. Ah! Man, after Moenhaar. The reason why I think actually it's not unbecoming, of course it's not in general unbecoming

because I smoke off air, is the nature of this conversation. It's so natural and you brought it up again. You mentioned it earlier before we started. It's just casual conversation. And that's exactly what it is. It's like, I love Matt and I love hanging out with you. And so this is a way for us to hang out and talk. And if people want to hear what

we talk about, then cool. If not, whatever. And so, yeah. Yeah. It must be interesting being a priest. I would imagine when men become priests, they are tempted to shave down the particulars of their personality and try to become, I don't know, a sort of a cyborg with no oddities or idiosyncrasies or anything like that. But yes, did you ever feel that temptation? But it's like, I think I did. I'd much rather you just be you. I think I did. Yeah. But I think I wasn't successful at not being myself. In fact, funny story. We can get back to Voodoo. Right, right.

A friend of mine told me that this lady has a crush on your father. I was like, Oh, okay, cool. She's got a good taste. This lady does not know me. She doesn't know me, right? She just sees me, you know, priesting. But my personality will come out. I guess in one of the talks I was doing one day, I was so silly, so stupid, right? But because that's who I am. I get silly. I make fun of myself. And apparently that lady was terrified, not terrified. She was like, she realized that her,

what she thought of me as this proper whatever, besides the fact that I'm actually a priest lady. But she was like, I don't like him anymore. He's too silly. He's like, good. That's who I am. And I tell seminarians that as our brothers, it is better that you get kicked out of seminary for who you actually are authentically than to be kept for who you are not to just be conformist. That's not proper. It's better to be kicked out. Actually. If you've got something to work on, go work on it. But don't be not you. You have to be you.

Yeah, and if you're not you and you're always putting up a front and you're accepted, that'll just further the lie that if I was to reveal who I was, that wouldn't be. Precisely. And therefore, you're not free, and you will hurt yourself and the church. Always. It is always better to be you, including in your limits, understanding them, embracing them, realizing who you are and accepting them. Voodoo. So yeah, back to Voodoo. As I was saying that, you know, I want to learn more about it. What's hard with Voodoo is that it's difficult to learn, to have like a comprehensive course

on Voodoo, to understand it, because there's not much written about it. There's not a catechism. Exactly. There's not a catechism of Voodoo like we have. So people say, this is spirituality, you just have to live it out. Okay, cool. Yeah. Some people don't like when you call it a religion, right? So whatever. So I like to say people like their words. Yeah. So what is it? So it's supposed to be kind of an ancestral spirituality of people being connected back to the ancestors and they feel like the ancestors their energy It may be their spirits come back and present is present with them can lead them can do things for them They can have certain power and so they have names for these entities called laws

And so they can call upon these laws to do different things and to even send them to do their bidding for them Some people try to distinguish sorcery and voodoo They say voodoo is the general spirituality Which is not necessarily out to kill people to mess up the people to stick dolls with pins, etc. I was like, alright cool again I'm happy to take you out to work. So that's that Now voodoo is indeed a very spiritual, religious experience, I would say even. I've seen people practice, and I try to honor the people themselves and to say, what is it that draws you and what is it, right? And so I try to listen now in the experience of calling on those

spirits people can get into trances and they can in those trances they can do certain things that look like it's not human like walking on on hot coals barefoot like taking pepper that's been crushed up and putting it in private parts and nothing happening. So people see that. Now, could these be magic tricks? Maybe because I've seen magicians do some crazy things. But again, I'm willing to take people's words for it because in our theology we have room

for that. By room for, I mean, there are ways for that kind of thing to be explained, right? There are forces out there that can do those things. They're not necessarily of God, and so that's why it's important to study the types of forces that are there. Thomas Aquinas was never scared to study the occult and different things like that, and to see some things that are not bad in and of themselves. So that's that. So voodoo is

practiced by a lot of Haitians, and they have voodoo dances, which are ceremonies where they'll play the conga, the drums, and they'll dance, there are dances, and people get in trances, etc. Now, I'm not a voodoo practitioner, obviously, and I have reasons for it. One, because I do not think it's true, I don't think it's good, and I don't think it's beautiful. But I am Catholic because I think it's true, good, and beautiful. There are, I think, aspects that are good in Voodoo. I think there are aspects that are beautiful in Voodoo. I think there are aspects that are true. For example, wanting to be connected to your ancestors is a good thing, right? So I celebrate that. We want to be connected to our ancestors and to the saints. The book of Hebrews tells us in chapter 13,

verse 7, that we should consider the lives of those who have gone before us, our leaders, and to imitate their faith. And so, okay, that's kind of a spiritual ancestry kind of thing. There's nothing wrong with that. And I think in that case, voodoo practitioners help us to be connected to that and to realize that death does not have to do away with connections, which is a Christian truth. What Jesus does though is that because it's universal truth, is that we will see those truths as rays of the universal truth of Christ and claim it for Jesus. And so, I also see the danger in Voodoo, in those spirits that people think they can control, when they really can't. I don't think they understand how this world works.

You'll find people that think they're experts, and they'll speak of that. And I think that's where the danger comes in. And because some of those spirits, what I find is that they don't allow any freedom to people. And that is evil. Do you often have practitioners of voodoo come to you when they've realized they've gone too far or that this isn't what it claimed to be? I have. Or people running away from those forces that want to claim them at their service. So I've had young people. What do they say?

When those people come to me, they'll say things like, Father, every night I have this particular dream and this particular spirit comes to me and says that I have to serve it and I have to do a particular sacrifice. Or it'll be while they're awake. Like there'll be someone that comes to them and says, you need to serve this particular spirit or else, and it will keep pursuing them until they say yes. To the point of possession, and I've dealt with several cases like that, of several possessions, where there are these spirits that claim to be voodoo spirits. Again, I take people out their words. I take the spirits out their words in that particular case. It's like voodoo spirits that say that they claim this person and that this person

thinks that they can escape, but they cannot escape. So what that tells me is that there is no respect for human dignity, for human freedom. I cannot support that. Again, I just mentioned there are things that I think could be good in voodoo, like the connection with the ancestors. I think that's a beautiful thing. And it's spiritual, and people are open to the spiritual world. It's not materialistic. That's a good thing about voodoo. I can appreciate that. I can honor that. But the lack of freedom that happens is not good. In fact, I've also seen people use that force to do some really, really, really evil things.

I have a spiritual daughter that has been pursued for years by a man who claims to be a practitioner of voodoo and who wanted to take her life. Because after he'd abused her as a young child, he didn't think that she would ever be able to speak. And so when she realized that her little sister was also undergoing the same abuses, then she spoke up and went to the authorities and the guy because he was able to grab the authorities, he was able to be released in two days

and they lost the kit, the test, the results for the test that they did at the hospital for the little girl. And so for like five years, he had been searching for that older sister that I've had to move from safe house to safe house, 20 different safe houses, to stay one step ahead of him. And he claims, he confesses to the different things that he's done, the different killings that he's done in order to find this girl, and the different groups that he's

called upon through the mediation of voodoo in his testimony to try to get to this girl. And he has done many evil things to her, things that are inexplicable, naturally speaking, such as, you know, we had her hidden in a particular house, and this house is locked from the inside, and the owner sleeps with the key in his pocket, and she's sleeping inside but in the middle of the night at like 2 or 3 a.m. or something the gate is knocked on not the door but the gate outside and there are people that brought back the girl and they have to unlock the padlock with the key in his pocket the owner of the house

to go outside to get the girl that was inside who got out without the door being unlocked, without the padlock being opened. And now this happened, it was very mysterious. And this happened in a location that was very far from this man, in a location that he did not know, that was not revealed. Somehow, and he says it, this is again his own testimony, I've used my powers, my connections in the voodoo world to be able to locate her, we were able to get her, but every time I get to her you always mess it up with your stupid prayers, we knew that you'd be trouble for us the moment you took her under your

wings. And so, because I keep reminding them that Jesus is Lord, and as Lord, He has purchased with His blood everyone who decides to receive Him in faith and in baptism. And this girl has received Jesus in faith and wants to follow Jesus in nothing else. And so, not only with this girl are we fighting the spirits that want her to serve them in voodoo? We have to say no. She's purchased. She will serve Jesus and Jesus only But also we're fighting this other negative force that is trying to harness all the different powers around the country To get to her and they always seem to get to her to find her To the point where one day she was literally in the middle of the day sleeping in the upstairs of a house. Her door is locked. Her husband went out to pick up a phone and there's people downstairs. She sees

two men walk into the room. They didn't open the door. Two men that just walked into the room starting searching for a document. They were searching for her passport and when she's like, what the heck are you guys doing? They grabbed two minutes walked into the room, starting searching for a document. They were searching for her passport. And when she's like, what the heck are you guys doing? They grabbed her, took her for clothes, threw her to the ground, tied her hands behind her back and tied her legs behind her back. And proceeded to do some other things, unfortunately.

And they kept looking for the documents and they found her passport. They also found her test results from a medical exam that she did, because we were trying to use that to see if she could get some kind of medical parole to get out of the country. Because this girl was literally being hunted down. And so it's one specific fellow, or does he have a group?

Well, he's one, and he claims that his family is with him, but he also calls upon different groups from different locations Yeah, have you encountered him several times? I've been you know where he is. I I know generally speaking where he because you don't have these test results The authorities can't do anything. Do you ever just wish as a Christian priest you could go beat the living shit out of him Yes, absolutely. And why don't you do that? Because it seems like that would be a fabulous idea, but maybe I'm a sinner. It does seem, but so am I. It does seem like a fabulous idea. However, there are other consequences. When you poke the hornet's nest,

you have to be prepared, right? Because I'm not the only one that is because again, he's not alone, right? Because I'm not the only one that is, because again, he's not alone, right? And so, his being not alone... You know what you need to do is call on your Episcopal brothers. They have a hookup. Thursday, was that a little blow? So, there are other people involved. There are other people also at risk, including the siblings, the younger siblings of this girl, her mother, they're all at risk,

because it's promised to kill them all. Once he finds her, to do to her. Is she safe? She's safe in the Lord. I cannot say any more about it, but she, the older sister is safe in the Lord and, and he's pissed. He is pissed. I spoke of this. I denounce crap like that. It was, We had a huge charismatic Congress and I was preaching against authorities that get bribed to release abusers and to hurt victims. And somebody told him about that. He wasn't very happy.

Yeah, he sent me some choice words. But that's when he also began to confess everything that he's done, because he wants me to get scared. He's like, I did this and I did that. Remember that guy that was texting you on that particular day? Yeah. Remember that day when you were at the cemetery and you were blessing the tombs? I had people there, just so you know. And he's not bluffing, you don't think? He's not bluffing. No, he's not bluffing. He knows too. The information that he reveals are too unknown for him to be bluffing. But again, the cool thing is this. Wouldn't it be cool though? Just hear me out.

Cause I know you want to have like a Haitian missionaries and all that, but like a what if we found, we, what's going on? Is that a, what do you call it? What is that? That's a a oh no I don't have it you know what if we got Shane Smith Thursday Jacob Imam for some reason and we you just brought people down to bring the Bible and the sword I mean I can see why it seems like a good idea but you know what though here's my prayer my prayer is one Lord protect those kids,

protect that family. Deliver them in all ways, spiritually and socially. I need them to be able to find some kind of refuge elsewhere. And we've tried with the US. I'm very frustrated with the State Department. Very frustrated because, you know, we try. I can't say too much because I don't know who's going to know. I know it sounds like I'm just venting, but there's a sense in which what I'm saying, I mean, I mean, if the authorities aren't protecting this girl, whether the reason is good or not, and you have reasons to think that she will be harmed and that he is most certainly the fellow who abused her.

Then shouldn't a shouldn't a Christian man take things into his own hands at that point. Mm-hmm to some degree now I don't know what that means. I think at this point what it means is what does it mean we go on to the Lord and We let the Lord act Yeah, and that is And the Lord has been acting, He's been showing us that He is the one that's all-powerful. And even though there are evils that happen, I did a teaching on that at the Power and Purpose Conference at Steubenville last weekend. And the Lord really, He was talking to me, He was preaching to me at the conference.

What I realized is that the Lord has already won the victory and that we fight not to victory but from victory and that everything that happens, the Lord is not shocked or surprised. He's not running around in heaven and be like, oh my gosh, guys, did you see what happened? We need to regroup and find some kind of solution. It's nice that he doesn't do that about our sins either, like the things that we fall into that shock us. Amen. Exactly. You're Dustin Ashes. What were you expecting? No, but I like what you're saying. Where is it?

I think it's James who says that the anger of man does not bring about the righteousness of God. Correct. Yeah, correct. And so whereas we see from point A to point B, point B to C in time linear, God sees from here to eternity. He sees how this is resolved already. So, as the devil is running around, he's like, I wait for you up here, buddy. You're going to have to come through. My favorite story is that of Joseph, the son of Jacob. Yes. You meant it for evil. The Lord planned greatness. Genesis 50 verse 20, I love that verse. The brothers planned to stop him because God planned greatness for him. So God had a plan, the brothers had a plan. And God is

like, oh, okay, so you want to see whose plan will actually come true? Go ahead. I release you, go. And he gives them the freedom to try to do everything to them. And so they hate him. So they wanted to kill him, then they sold him, and then part of his wife lied about him, accused him wrongly. He was sent to prison all while being innocent. To Joseph's human and natural eyes, God, it looks like you've abandoned me. Like it looks like you've forgotten what you have promised. And God is like, wait, wait, just wait. And the brothers feel we have succeeded. But God already sees the end point, which is that actually, you punks, Joseph is going to be the very ones to save you. And what you think you are stopping, you are actually achieving. Because it wasn't despite the actions

that God made Joseph prime minister of Egypt, it was through their actions. It was by their hatred, God allowed Joseph to be sent to Egypt and to the prison where he would meet those guys that would tell Pharaoh about him and then Pharaoh was like, well, go get them. So not in spite of their actions. Not in spite of, but through those very things. Yeah, through them.

Meaning, and the example I use is like a staircase. The enemies threw themselves against us as obstacles, but God uses them as a step. Then when one comes in, God brings us higher and higher until we get to the level that He's prepared for us. You cannot fight that. And Gamaliel said that. Right? Guys, I don't think we should be messing with those apostles. How about this? If it's from man, it'll die off. But if it's from God, you can't stop it. Now, has man come against God? Of course, but never ultimately. God would allow you to run around and be stupid, but then at the end, He waits for you. His victory is already settled.

He's not hoping to be victorious. God is victorious. And so, even the case with these kids, it's resolved in the Lord's mind. So I do my part. I apply the victory that Christ has already won. So one, I pray for their deliverance. I also pray, and this, I pray for their deliverance. I also pray, and this time I pray for justice. I say, God, give justice for them and against our enemies.

Can I still pray, smash the teeth of your enemies? I think that would be a good justice. That's justice. It's not just this. No, really, really. But one more thing I pray for is the conversion of that one guy. Amen, yeah. And so but one more thing I pray for is the conversion that of that one guy. Yeah, why I Need him to come crawling before the cross of Jesus to say Because he really thinks he's really powerful and he's powerful He's really connected and it's amazing to see how united evil is

The way that he could be in this location, he's united to evil in that location, and they'll do his bidding. It's like, you guys are like, really, the communion of sin and the communion of evil exists. How much more we should be careful to make sure that we don't break the communion of saints' unity in the church. Jesus said this, if Satan is fighting against himself, his kingdom will not stand, but his kingdom is still standing, which means somehow he's actually having his goons work together, his demons. And it's, I think in the church, we ought to be more united than Satan and his demons. We have to. We have to. I'm thinking of Christ's words to St. Peter.

Satan has desired to sift you like wheat. Yeah? To separate you. Yes, that's right. Yeah. So if God is communion, holy communion in a way, we're made in his image, we find ourselves in relationship. One of the identity is present within me, but it's sort of mirrored back to me in my relationship to you as I affirm your goodness, as you affirm mine. But in a day and age where marriage has been obliterated and we're all sort of spread out outside of communion, we don't have identity and now we have to find and recreate identities in monstrous ways. In monstrous ways. And we'll never be satisfied, of course, with those fake identities. It's a sad thing. It's really to be pitied. It is. I just had a girl here, Chloe Cole, who

was a, she's a de-transitioner. Oh, I saw, I didn't see the episode. It's worth watching. It broke my heart. She's a beautiful girl. I'm so proud of her. Yeah, I think you said it's probably the most powerful. I think so Yeah, people said like what's the most like yeah, that would be one of them for sure. Yeah up there But it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Come Lord Jesus. Come Lord Jesus and I wanted to ask you earlier. So with with what's going on in Haiti right now. Is that Limiting the amount of missionaries that are coming all great with you greatly Yeah, and is that are they right not to come that are coming to work with you? Oh, greatly, greatly. Yeah, we don't.

And are they right not to come at this point? I think so. Yeah. Because we even, we kind of discourage them because we feel like, because we'd feel a responsibility for them being in Haiti and being Haitians. And so we're like, yeah, just chill out.

Would that couple, may God bless them and grant them salvation and grant healing to their families? Amen. Was that couple led by somebody? Were they part of a particular group? They were in a particular group. And whoever was leading that group, did they not know what they were doing or were they making sort of irresponsible moves that led to this? It sounds like, well, it may seem irresponsible to others, but it sounds like in their minds they discern this, like we know we are in the midst of danger, but we're serving those

particular people and we feel like it's worth it. And actually, I can't blame them for people who feel that way. God bless them. Yeah, so, and I believe their blood will be vindicated by the Lord 100%. Again, like, bro, I've seen so much, I've suffered much, and I've seen people suffer so much. I've gotten to the point, very close to discouragement, very close, being called about midnight almost every single night.

I would put my alarm on, I would know that my spiritual daughter was gonna get possessed at that very moment. Why? And no matter how tired I was, I had to get myself up. There was a particular period where, because again, trying to tire her out, trying to tire me out to be like, what was she working? Exactly. Yeah, I guess you'd get up at a certain time at night and pray for her. But again, the more this happens, the more I realize God's bigger picture. I always have to remember this. It's hard to judge a whole from the perspective only of a part.

And I'm a part and I'm finite. I see only the finite. But through faith, I can see, I can have access to what is unseen in my human nature. I can trust in God and his providence. And that's what the Lord is doing in my heart now, is helping me to realize all this evil, son, I'm still here. I'm in control. I was reading Genesis today, and Jacob, after his dream with the latter, said something like he built an altar for he did not know God was there. Something to that effect.

Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes. And how often that's true in our own life. God's in this. Hallelujah. He's in the midst of this, and you didn't know that. Hallelujah. Precisely.

Yeah. And it's... And I think sometimes we assess the church and the state of things without faith. Without the deep conviction that God is control of his church, that he is risen, that his providence is at work, he's present to us. Oh.

You know, because imagine if God ceased existing, I'm just playing a thought experiment here, or didn't exist. Okay, well now all of your anxieties are warranted because things look like they're on fire and really everything is up to you. Precisely. But imagine if it was all up to you and imagine if everything would be okay. Oh, okay.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. That's the kind of peace the Lord is giving me. Amen. Through all of this. Um, death will happen. Evil will seem to win, but I knew that it won't win. I claim it. I claim it. And I'm not just claiming it based on, you know, fiction or wishful thinking. Positive thinking. Right. That's not tending to reality. I'm claiming it because of what has happened. I know the one who makes the promise, he does not lie. He's been vindicated. He has vindicated his claims. So we go back to Jesus.

Jesus of Nazareth, the man who himself has entered into the depths of evil, into death itself, into darkness, and has destroyed darkness from inside. Hallelujah. And Jesus is in the midst of our darkness right now, whether it's in the church, whether it's in Haiti, wherever it is, Jesus is here and he's already risen. He's victorious. I want to tell you about a course that I have created for men to overcome pornography. It is called strive21.com slash Matt. You go there right now or if you text STRIVE to 66866, we'll send you the link. It's 100% free and it's a course I've created to help men to give them the tools to overcome

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get started today. You won't regret it. I wonder if these gangs are going to use this turning of people against the church to maybe persecute the church. To well, I think things are going to escalate to that point. I don't think I don't think they're going to get to that point. Only well I think things they're going to that point I don't think I don't think they're going to get to that point only because I think their days are numbered uh I think it's sooner than later uh it's too much does the government have a good plan here because you said they're armed more than your police they are which is why um that um um we have some help coming. So first of all, I think some of our police force,

some of the guys in our police force, they're getting motivated, they're making some changes. And we just had a transitional government installed from another transitional government that the gangs actually kicked out. Okay. Because they wanted to change the narrative. They wanted to show the people, we're really on your side.

We just want, we're helping you fight the revolution. Yeah, we're really sorry. We know we did a few bad things. You know what? Yeah, we shouldn't have done those things. But now guys, we're on your side and you need to forgive us. Or else.

Oh yeah, you're gonna gaslight us. No, they're gonna take that. But anyway, and they know their days are numbered. So a lot of them are fleeing. A lot of the foot soldiers trying to go hide from the capital to different places like further out in the in the countryside and the bigger ones apparently are hoping that maybe they'll get arrested instead and you know come spend some time in US prisons and then be released to go enjoy their money. I think there are two possibilities for the gangs. My preference

would be this, that they all say, guys why the heck are we doing this? Yes, there are some politicians that corrupted us, they paid us money, they gave us the guns to do their biddings and now they've left us to ourselves and so we've tasted power, we've tasted money, we've tasted pleasure, we can't resist and so we do evil in order to get those things, those three gods, to make us happy, but we realize we will never be happy. We're Haitian like you. We want to beg for your forgiveness, but we know that that's not enough.

We cannot force you to forgive us. So we will turn in our guns, we'll turn ourselves in once we realize that there is a system that's able to judge us fairly for what we've done and we're ready to pay for it We want to make reparations for what we have done because otherwise we'll fight a war that will shed so much blood because We're all tired of it and it's gonna have to end so the police is tired of it Now we have some international force coming in. We have a thousand officers coming from Kenya and several other countries are sending troops to help with that force to come in to help fight against the gangs to say no, we need

to reinsert control and that's it. Enough is enough. But the gangs are going to fight and they'll kill a lot of officers. A lot of innocent blood will be shed. Why? Because those gangs insert themselves in the midst of the poor, in the slums. So any war will have a lot of collateral damage, unfortunately. And so I don't want that. I don't even want them necessarily to be killed. It's not their death that I want. It is the salvation of Haiti.

It is peace in Haiti. And imagine if they turn themselves in, they get arrested, my plan is this, for the next 20 years, we'll have the biggest free workforce. We make them work like horses. Oh yeah. You will clean up what you have broken down.

So when we need to clean up trash, mud, whatever it is, the canals, you will clean up what you have broken down. So when we need to clean up trash, mud, whatever it is, the canals, you do it. We need to plant corn, millet to feed the whole country. You will do that. You will dig the holes. You will do, you will make everything. And it's the, we'll have a workforce that actually is useful to the country

and therefore making little reparation. It's not enough, because you murdered thousands of people. Now you have to work towards life in chains as prisoners. Yeah, to me that would be the solution or else they get annihilated. Yeah, but that's going to cause a little trouble a little damage. Are you ever shocked when you come from Haiti to here and realize that what's happening in Haiti is on almost nobody's radar? Do you ever feel like, come on?

No, I'm not shocked. I guess I'm going to get used to it. Haiti is a small country. Even though we're so close, I would like for more people to think about Haiti and lend a hand to Haiti. Like, for example, we have a group, an amazing firm that's run by a great Catholic entrepreneur. This firm has designed, has developed a strategic plan of integral human development, which would work with the church, and so they got the blessing of the Conference of Bishops

in Haiti to try to carry out that plan. They even took it to the Holy Father, and the Holy Father was like, this is – in fact, the Holy Father encouraged the bishop to like come up with a strategic plan of course the bishops can't do it they don't have the skills but this group did and so the Holy Father they went back to the Holy Father with the plan and gorgeous plan this plan would sound like Trump this plan it's a gorgeous plan the best plan it'll save 80 but um But it would be a beginning, you know, that it could have been implemented a while ago. It would cost something like four billion dollars. Is there hope then because of all this? Because of the people coming in from Kenya because of these? Is

there hope? There is hope, one, because Christ is in control. I will not put my all my faith in humans and princes, right? Or horses. Right. But I do think it's a sign of some kind of solidarity. Not everybody wants that. Again, I don't want that. I don't want international forces to come in and fight against my brothers and sisters in Haiti. Right? I would rather my brothers and sisters to say, F this. Excuse my language. Like, no, we don't want this for our country. We don't want this for our brothers and sisters. It's, it's Haitians killing Haitians. Stop it.

Just be done with it. And then it's solved. But if not, then we will get help wherever it comes from in order to stop this. It can no longer go on. Too many have suffered. Too many women have been, you know, the R word. Too many children have been corrupted.

We've got, you know, kids that are in gangs, you know, 12, 13, 14 year olds that are carrying weapons to rob people and it's crazy. This is how audacious they are. These gangs control even national roads. Like if you're coming from Port-au-Prince to my area, if you were to come by car, you would go through at least four toll booths run by gangs. You go through, you either pay or they take. And they're out on the street with their rifles. They're not hiding. They're waiting and they're coming through.

And if you have no money, what are they taking? Something, maybe a phone or something. So everybody's got to give something. You know, and so the driver knows, come on everybody, we're going to stop. We have a stop coming up. Mason Harkness Are you nervous living there right now? Katsushika Yamanishi Am I living there now? Mason Harkness Are you nervous living there now? Have things gotten worse over the last several

years that it's getting to the point where you're fearing for your own safety? Or have you always, in a sense, feared? Katsushika Yamanishi I don't fear for my safety because of the gangs. Because my area, well first of all, the Lord, I believe the Lord has called me to where I am and therefore I belong to him and nothing will happen to me that will surprise him that he will not allow. If he allows it, it is for my good because all things work for the good of those who love God. I believe that 100%. Romans 8.28 and Genesis 50.20, I put them together. You met this, you know, you went evil for me, but God met this for good. And the same thing, even if evil happens to me, I know it will be for good. God will use it for good. I know that for sure. So that's one.

Secondly, our area is pretty BA when it comes to Working with gangs against gangs. We don't have any any Established gang in our whole department, which is like a state We have ten departments in Haiti our department is considered probably the safest in all of Haiti because we don't mess around because several of several people but the name that is thrown around most that is most popular is the prosecutor for Miraguan his name is Muscaden he does not mess around he's like a DA or prosecutor but he's a very unconventional prosecutor he doesn't sit behind his desk no he takes his security team out

with rifles with his own rifle and he goes hunting for gangsters. And if he finds you, you will die. And he tells you this. He says, wow, he says my jurisdiction will be your cemetery if you come close. So every now and then they'll send threats. They'll be like, we're coming for you. Like, please come and bring guns. So when I shoot you, people don't say, oh, he was just a university student. No, please come. We'd love for you to come. So these gangs have been making headway from Port-au-Prince towards our area and they got to a particular police station. They ran them out, ran out the police and they took over and they were like, hey, Miss Cadet, we're're here what you gonna do now won't you come up the next day he shows up. Everyone takes the hills he does not mess around. Oh that must be nice.

I love him yeah I love him. You need that. I wonder when America will get to that. Right, right. Sucked that guy from El Salvador, too. What's his name? Buckele, I think. Shapiro has a good point. He says whenever people talk about civil war, he's like, all right, so no, because we're all too fat and lazy. Right. So his point is we get really angry and then something happens and then there's a civil war, but no one knows what the something happens is. No one wants to do the something happens. Right there's a civil war but no one knows what the something happens is no one wants to do the something happens right right right but given how quickly our country is

tearing apart dude i when i look like for america yeah tell me why i'm beginning to wonder whether or not we'll be able to be one country and for how long like the polarization is so bad long. Like the polarization is so bad that we can't even look at the other and the opposite side as like fellow Americans. But like they are evil, like evil, like there's no listening. So we all just go into our silos. So you get your CNN here, you got your Fox here. And then people don't realize that if you're listening to any of those 24 seven, like some people do, like your mind will be so warped,

your view of reality so warped that you won't be able to see the human person for the human person. Right. And you won't be able to go across the aisle, but also it's because that more and more we're moving away from our objective foundation for moral values, for morality, because we're moving more towards relativism,

because again, we want to support with our reference, right? So we come with all sorts of excuses. And because we are eaten away at the foundation, I'm like, how much longer will we be able to stand? I don't know. I asked a question to a couple of veterans, like when we went to the pilgrims, that was an awesome pilgrimage by the way. I know it was tiring, probably horrible, horribly tiring for you, being an introvert. I got a funny story about that.

So for those watching, Father was our chaplain on our river cruise in France. Was it last year? Yeah, what it was last year? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember at the end someone came up to me when hey congratulations You made it and I thought I was doing a good job. I didn't know I was I Actually didn't I did enjoy it Didn't know that I was coming across as if I didn't, but I'm not sure if you're coming across, I think because people know you're an introvert. Also next to you and Cameron, like the two of you are so delightful and so friendly and so talkative. So next to you, I looked like a Grinch.

Oh, your kids. Yeah. All my kids, Peter Fradd. What a champ. Peter was the champ of the whole group. He is beautiful. Yeah, he's a wild child. We were in Florida recently. He loves animals. He's always catching animals and bringing them to me. Of course. Birds! They just pick up a pigeon and bring a pigeon to you. That's what I don't understand. Did you see that? There are animals that would just allow kids to mess with them like that check this out We were in Florida and Peter ran up to us. He had caught a fish a Fish. Yeah, now it was the kind of fish I think that you know goes along It was a round fish, I guess on the surface of the sea or something

So I don't think it was as difficult as you caught like a fish as we normally think of them But yeah, he just brought us a living fish. oh that's awesome maybe let's take it back and then we just in Rome he caught a lizard and he lost it in the car we had no idea this poor bloody lizard was we go to a CC and I'm getting back in the van and I see the lizard in the side I got to pick him up and he's trying to bite me I freak out throw it accidentally at my wife's back she freaks out it was good anyway so. Anyway, so Peter Frank, Lizards. Okay, so you said, okay, in France. What were you saying?

When I thought of D-Day, in Normandy. Oh yeah. And seeing all those crosses in the fields, these are all people who gave their lives for a cause. And we went to the American cemetery and thinking like, we need a cause, don't we? These boys were not fighting for America cause. And we went to the American cemetery and thinking like, these boys, we're not fighting for America specifically, they're fighting for a cause. It's like people believed in truth, beauty,

and goodness. Like there was such a thing as goodness, there's such a thing as human rights, because we're made in the image of God, right? And they wanted to give their lives for it. They knew that so many of them would be immediately annihilated the moment they got close to the shore. They knew it. They're walking into the cannons, into the guns. They're walking into their deaths. And yet, that's manliness, courage.

So I asked a couple of veterans, if we had to do another D-Day today, do you think we'd have men with that kind of courage with America? Well, I think it's because we're not that convinced that America is worth fighting for because America might not exist anymore or in the way that it did. What are we protecting? What's behind us that we're saving?

That might be a very cynical take, but if you're patriotic and you love your country and you think it is good, true and sure. For then as Chesterton says, the warrior doesn't hate what's in front of him. He loves what's behind him and that's why he's fighting. Wow. But if you don't love what's behind you, true. But then though, again, it wasn't like America was immediately threatened. I don't think right.

It was more like we need to help our allies. Right. Fair, fair enough. And for the cause of freedom. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You know, it's like, but again, even for that, even if we do believe, like I just feel like we've gotten so weak. And the media has just made us just, even men that are supposed to be kind of strong, they just kind of get weak. Weak, I don't know. We need manliness.

We need more manliness. We need manliness. What we don't need is machismo. Correct. My wife and I were talking, there was a group of guys we were with recently, and there was one fella who was very thin, and like just geeky, very geeky looking, very thin.

He's Thursday, I'm just joking, Thursday. It wasn't him at all. Thursdayy looking very thin he's Thursday I'm just checking Thursday Thursday's looking great he's going to the gym ladies he looks terrific there's no he's very thin and kind of pale that kind of like but we were like no he's actually like this kid's kind of manly because he can look you in the eye yeah and that's just how he was built correct but then there was this other fellow he had broad shoulders but for some reason he was acting like a girl typically would how he swishes hair and how he talks. And I'm like, what is this? Where is this coming from? Where is that? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Of course, I think I do believe that

we do have some really good and strong men, but like I'm seeing in general, I feel like it's like some of the manly values are not valued anymore. It's more like you don't have to be a man kind of thing. You know what I mean? Or another thing that's scary is if we want the accidents without the substance. So we want the muscles and we want the mustache and we want the big car. Those are the accidents of manhood.

That's not what manhood is. Yes. And it's not just because I play football. Back in the day, I remember like, make them do some manly things. I can play football. Okay, well that's that, but that's not what because I play football. Back in the day, I remember like, make him do some manly things. Make him play football. Okay, well that's not, but that's not what the masculine genius is.

We usually hear of the feminine genius in Jumbo the Second. But like- But it can absolutely train an inculcate manliness, hey? Like sports. Correct. Yeah.

But it itself is not what manliness is. You know what I'm saying? And so that's why it's important to get to the heart of what is man, what is woman? Just like that dude asked that question, what is a woman? And nobody can answer. What is a man? And I think I've been going through this amazing program that helps me work on myself and that equips me to accompany others. It's called CP MAP, the Catholic Psych's accompany others. It's called CP-MAP, Catholic Psyches Model of Applied Personalism. It's a dear friend who is an awesome psychologist. Actually- Can you share his name?

Dr. Greg Botara. There's a couple of his colleagues that I think that's been on here, and psychologists as well. He's an awesome psychologist, but he's realized that secular psychology, you know, can tend to presuppose atheistic things about the human person. And it's like, well, at least it does not presuppose some of the most fundamental truths about the human person, such as you're made in the image of God. You're made out of love for love, in relationship for relationship, with each other and with God, ultimately. But it's like, why should we throw that away? And what would it do to psychology if we presuppose these things or if we brought them in? It's like, oh, duh. So what he's trying to do, his life work is to integrate the best of psychology with revelation. So awesome Catholic anthropology, spirituality mixed with psychology. And to integrate those, to see the human person

as one, so that to see the soul, the body, the mind as one, and then to accompany the person as such. And so he stopped doing psychotherapy. His whole team, his whole company has stopped doing psychotherapy. They do this mentorship thing called IDDM, Integrative dialogic mentorship, they call it. And so I'm a beneficiary of IDDM. And so are you undergoing it or are you trying to be a practitioner of it as it were? Both. So because I'm getting certified to be a mentor,

and I'm actually, this is my last week, so praise the Lord, because I heard it's a certification, I thought it was something like that for the last three months. Weekend. Yeah, yeah, okay, so there we go. I didn't want to say we can't get on with it. But that's exactly what I thought. What is it? You get a certificate. No, it's basically, it's almost a doctorate. But it's at least it's like a strong masters. Yeah. And I was like I was not ready for this. So but then there's the workload, but the most important is the internal work.

Because you're not just studying. You have a mentor that you talk to every day, and you're bringing yourself into this under the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ in the anthropology of the Catholic Church. It's like, who am I? What is man? What is it, what am I as a man, as a celibate man, as a priest in relationship? And then so just seeing my defenses, being comfortable with them, realizing the different parts of myself that I kind of wanted to kind of keep suppressed

or that I even hated. Oh yeah. Right? I knew that. Because it's like, it's a part of me that like you're not successful or you can't get this. I hate you. But I'm taught that, no, every part of me is beautiful and good, made by God.

And that part of me, there are parts of me that will be protective parts that will want, that come up with these defenses, but only because they think they're protecting another part of me, that's the vulnerable one. And the defense might be bad, but the part is good, the motive is good, it's for protection. When I can give that part a voice, so it requires that I can sort of look at myself from this perspective or that part of me, distance myself to say, why do you do what you do? And then when I can hear how it developed those defenses from these past wounds, I can then process those wounds,

those feelings, and then realize that I can now allow that part to lower its guards, to be able to let that vulnerable part of me come up. I can love that part, I can acknowledge and love it rather than hate it, because what I realize, the more I fight that part and hate it, the more I cannot escape its defenses and so I

Like so I realized that I have some strong tendencies and what's called dependent personality defenses Where you know because of so many separations that I've gone through in my past and I don't want to go through separations and so subconsciously I'll even like, I want to be the people pleaser to the detriment of my own good. It's not just putting people first, but it's like, I pretend I don't even have those needs. And then, and so narcissists love to be in relationship with dependent people because they love for people to look up to them. They love for people to just see them, them, them, them. And dependents are like, you know what? You're the caretaker. I'll just stick next to you even if you're abusive, manipulative.

Have you read much Dostoevsky? Because notes from underground and then a gentle creature. The fella in both of those cases is he wants to be the savior of someone like this prostitute, pull her out of misery so she can worship him forever. That kind of thing. Yes, that's a very narcissist thing. I want to point out real quick that I did an interview with Dr. Jerry Creed, who I think you may have been referring to. So if people like this kind of language and want to learn a lot more, check out the last interview I did with Dr. Jerry. Oh yes. C-R-E-T-E. And what's that book? Litanies of the High? Yeah, yeah, it just came out. And what's that book? Litanies of the Heart? Yeah, yeah, it just came out.

I met him when he came to speak at a summit that Catholics did in Boston recently for the graduation of the first students that came out of this program, the CP-MAP program. And Dr. Crete, he spoke of this, of this kind of work and the parts work from, you know, so CP-MAP integrates internal family systems, but in a Catholic sense, and you're able to do that. But what you realize is that it's actually more effective when you have compassion on your parts. It's more effective to actually get through things

than to hate your parts that are in you. It's really interesting. You would think that, you know, I'm just gonna man up and just, you know, cool turkey and just push it down. It's never gonna work, ever. You have to face each part of you and give it a voice, acknowledge it, love it. Yeah, and a quick way to kind of show people that, like what might be an example, you might say, okay, imagine the alcoholic and he hates that he's the way he is. All right, so what would you have him do? Would you have him continue to hate that part of him and press forward? Or would you have him pause and go, why do I do this? What is it

that's driving me to this? And at that point, you might meet this part of you that's trying to find something that evidently isn't working. Okay, so what is it looking for that you could give it or that could be given to it that could satisfy in a healthy way. Absolutely. Is that it? I'm not a therapist. That's a great perspective. It's funny because in a day and age with, you know, you've got the Goggins. I don't know who that fellow is. That black fellow who's always yelling at me on the internet. David Goggins. Really? No, I don't.

You'll love him. But you know, you've got all these fellows who are talking, telling you to get your crap together and just shape up, which is what we need to hear a lot of the time. But I guess you can go too far in that direction and take that attitude to yourself in every regard without being gentle with yourself. Now, he might have certain defenses that he's displaying. Right. Because there's another part of him that's like scared to death. He doesn't want you to see that. He has to cover it up. Yeah, think of the bully. Like think of the high school bully. Absolutely. 100%. It's not like that's a very secure dude. Every bully is a scared little boy or a little girl in there that cannot let you see it. But it's okay. That little part of you wants to be,

wants to have a voice. Give it a voice, acknowledge it. And so that's been awesome for me. And I'm very excited to walk with you and accompany people in a holistic sense. I don't have to turn off the truths about the human person, about God. No, it all comes to power. But more and more I'm realizing,

I wasn't as convinced of this in the beginning, that there's a content of what we know and what I'm realizing, I wasn't as convinced of this in the beginning, that there's a content of what we know and what we teach people, but most people won't remember what you told them, but they will remember how you made them feel. And so when I can tell somebody, in this space, there is nothing you can't say. There is nothing that you should, to be scared of saying or that I will judge you. I promise you, a non-judgmental listening ear. Whatever it is you want to express, you can't express it.

And you'll be amazed. The parts of people that couldn't be expressed coming up to express fears, doubts, things that they were ashamed of, and they're like, it's okay, you could come out. You have a space at the table. They speak of parts as children around the table and the family and the self.

When you are in self, when you are most yourself, is like the parent that allows each kid to be at the, you don't kick them out. That's not how you deal with family. It's not like, well, you're bad. It's like more like, okay, you're acting up, why? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love that kind of work. I don't know how we got into that

It's a we were to have manliness, but it's so true like as a parent I've reiterated this multiple times like the one thing I don't want is for my children to hide from me Amen, I want their heart. So there's been times with my kids where they've confessed things And I'm and I should you, objectively, if someone was heard about what they actually did wrong, you might think you need to punish that kid. I just, I mean, yes, there's a place for discipline a thousand percent, but when a child is genuinely repentant, I just, I just cannot, I just tell them how proud I am. I love them. It's the most beautiful thing. But that's an example. That could

be analogous to these parts of us. One hundred percent. You know, because you've got this kid and they're playing up. Why are you playing up? Maybe he's done something wrong and he hasn't confessed it to you. And so he feels guilty or she feels guilty. Yes. And then if it just finally comes out and you welcome that. Yes, yes, yes.

I think of the damage I would have done to one of my children if they had have confessed something in intimacy. Like, tell me what you did, buddy. It's OK. And they did. And I crushed them for it. Yes. Think of the damage that will be done. And yet we often do that to ourselves. We do.

We do. And it never works. It never works. Um, one last thing about the whole manliness thing. I saw a video of, uh, I guess they were talking, talking to different couples. And, or, well, there was one too, where they were talking to a couples. Well, there was one too, where they were talking to a different couple, but this guy, he's like shirtless on TV.

He's like, how about he has a dress? But he just wants to show how bulky he is. And you're talking about that toxicity, that just like- Insecurity. Insecurity. But he wants to show off a man. Another one, this guy, similar to this one, thinks he's so strong, so macho. And you have this other gentle guy

who was way more manly than that big muscular guy because the gentle guy was so courageous. He was challenging. I think I know who you're talking about. Is this the Andrew fella Thursday? The Orthodox guy? He was making fun of him having man breasts? Is that what? Yes, yes. I don't know if he was Orthodox. And then she got this guy, he's wearing all white. Yes. And he started shouting at him. Yes, dude. That was unreal.

And then he's like, I'm gonna smack you. Yeah. Thinking that the guy's gonna be like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. He's like, no, I'm not even. I like what he says. Do you usually threaten men who open carry in Florida? Or something like that.

No, he was clearly the masculine one. And what was cool is nobody took that big guy's side. Because he's right, this guy is very buff. Congratulations, you look terrific. This guy is like a lot of us. He's not as in shape as you might wish to be. But there was nobody on the internet who thought that the big strong guy had the advantage.

How confident he was right This is offensive, but I'm gonna say it anyway I saw a comment under the in the comment sections because this big guy was all in white Someone said oh people people gonna be so upset. We're gonna say it Thursday. You can bleep it out if it's really bad There's a bold move to wear all white on your period But I guess that like it gets to that a man who can govern himself mmm, I mean this is st. Dominic Yes, a man. Okay. He doesn't know what we do But you have to look at it you can even insert it into this bit Thursday if you wanted because it's. Who's that? Andrew, he runs a channel called The Crucible.

And yeah, you have to look it up. But gosh, no, but yeah, it's Saint Dominic who says the man who governs his passions is master of his world. It is better to be a hammer than an anvil. And that big white guy. Yes. Andrew Wilson's the fellow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that guy dressed all in white. He was clearly that he was clearly the anvil.

Absolutely. He was being dominated by his passion. Dominated. Yep. And he had this other fellow who's in control of himself. Correct. And that being able to be in control of myself means there's some... He's, he's, and it looks like he's a bit comfortable with himself. He knows who he is. And I would probably bet you that he knows also whose he is. He seems to be someone who's probably got, you know, faith. Yeah, he is. He's an orthodox Christian. Oh, there we go. So to know who you are and whose you are helps you to stand square in who you are, even in your limits, in your weaknesses.

But God bless that poor fella. Exactly. You know, you ever see the show Shallow Howl back in the day? I wouldn't necessarily recommend it because there are some scenes that aren't so great. But the basic idea was he's put into this sort of trance where he starts seeing people not as they appear, but as they actually are. So the gorgeous woman who might be an awful person, he sees her as a very ugly woman.

Whereas the woman who's quite beautiful on the inside, he sees her as a gorgeous supermodel. But the point is if you could see this fellow on stage, you might, you probably see just a her boy. And so, you know, we don't want to dump on him We want to call him out. I suppose Well, you did the wrong thing there, but yeah, God bless you and bring you right relationship, right? Man, have you checked out Exodus 90 lately? If you've heard of Exodus 90 before you're probably thinking of cold showers and Lent

But the Exodus 90 app offers so much more. It's a daily companion to help you grow closer to God and to become the man you want to be. This summer, I'm following along with the app's daily scriptures, reflections and prayers. It's awesome. On the app, you can join the enthronement to the Sacred Heart, the Exodus 90 Summer Book Club and St. Michael's Lent, which starts August 15th and leads up to the feast of St. Michael the Archangel on September 29th. St. Michael's Lent is an ancient tradition of prayer and fasting popularized by St. Francis in the Middle Ages that's been lost in our time. Let's bring it back. Join the men of Exodus 90 and Father Carlos

Martins, Catholic priest, exorcist, and host of the exorcist files who will serve as our spiritual guide for St. Michael's Lent this year on the Exodus 90 app. We will awaken to invisible realities and enter into the spiritual battle that rages around us all the time. Go to Exodus90.com slash Matt for a 14 day free trial to the Exodus 90 app and learn more about Saint Michael's Lent. That's Exodus 90 dot com slash Matt to join us for Saint Michael's Lent. Starting August 15, we always talk apologetics and evangelization debates. And but I think it was so cool. Some of the recent debates that have happened

and I've just been so pleased and excited with them like with Trent and brother Gavin by the way Gavin that's someone I would love to have a beer with I just had a coffee with him in room like last oh yeah so the picture and you said he's big news and he's agreed to come on the show we're gonna have a chat oh that's great I really like him. I love Gavin. There's something about him that is like, I want to be your friend. And I would have to have like a pastor to pastor talk with him, like as a Catholic pastor.

And he as a reform pastor, because I just see such gentleness and love in him. Even though there's a couple of things that he says, like, come on, bro, don't do that. But I mean, I can't blame him. That's his convictions, right? But again, that's a person I would love to... It was nice to sit down with him because I think we both had this in room last week. We had this understanding that we're not going to do that thing where we try to convert each other. That's not what we're going to... That's not this is about. It's gonna enable us to have a kind of beautiful, vulnerable conversation where we talked about a love of Christ and we talked about things we struggle with, what it's like running a YouTube channel.

And it was so, it was so nice. Absolutely. Now I know people, you're gonna get this crap. People are gonna be like, what do you mean you wanna convert? Everybody should become, yes, that's not what Matt means. And you should see the comments under this photo with him really oh yes I've seen a couple I saw some really good ones and then others are like oh my gosh come on the thing is

what people don't realize is that of course we all I would love everyone to be Catholic right how do I do that it's not by every coffee time is like so. I didn't know you were a heretic. That's not how you do it. Yeah. That even but there's a community in France called Tese. I've been there. It's you've been there. Mm hmm.

Oh my gosh back in the year 2000. Wow. I to me. It's still it's weird. I didn't if I went there now, I would hate it so much if I went there today and had the same experience I had back in 2000, I would be, I would leave. Oh, really? I'll just give one example, right? So it's an ecumenical place. And so I think Holy Mass was taking place over here and some Protestant service was

over here, and then communion was given at the same time and the Catholics went in this line, the Protestant, it was gross. I mean, you can see what they're trying to do in that, which you can affirm the good in it, but no, it was weird. I'm not sure if they do that anymore. I hope not. I know they have, there's a chapel with the Blessed Sacrament where they say mass for the Catholics, or the Catholics who want to say mass. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what they have in common is the prayers, which is like, kind of like the Liturgy of the Hours in common, where they, but the songs are gorgeous, the way they sing together. The cool thing, I think, is this. Rupert Spira I just got a really good analogy, but I'll come back to it.

Dr. Michael Dr. Michael Okay. The cool thing with them is this. We're talking about Gavin. Gavin is someone not only I would have coffee with, I would have like pray with, have him pray with me, pray for me, because it's like, okay, if it's true that we have more in common and if it's true that, and it has to be, the church teaches definitively that Gavin is my brother, not specifically like that, but that having received valid baptism, he's a brother in Christ. What does that mean? And if it's true that there are truths and means of sanctification, it is community. Okay, well, how much of that can I celebrate? And if there are these truths in him, this goodness in

him, should I celebrate it? One thousand percent I should. But like, how can I do it? How can I show it? I think Tse is trying to do that. Instead of like, we have these commonalities, we can celebrate it. And when you think about having morning prayer together with the scriptures and they read, they don't preach. They do have like enter the scripture, but they keep it kind of me Christian, that kind of thing. But then in those celebrations, in the brothers who wear the alms, like a vestment, they're like actual brothers. They make, you know, promises or vows to be like in a religious community, like monks. They pray together, they work together, they're Catholic, they're Episcopal, they are Reformed people, Calvinists, and they live together. It's like we know we have

differences, and that's the thing. This is where I would bulk as if they tried to say, we don't really have differences or they don't matter, like nope, sorry, I can't go there with you. We have differences, they're important to be worked out, we need to pray for them. But we can pray for them from the perspective of the unity that the Lord has given us. We ought to pray for the consummation of unity with these brothers. Of course, I believe there is unity in the Catholic Church, but obviously there's a greater unity to which the Lord is calling us that can be accomplished, and we pray for that with Jesus. But I'm not going to pray for that from the external of no unity, but standing in what we do have to have it accomplished.

And so I think there's a place for someone like Taize, again, not for the way that they're able to be humble with one another, kind of like you. so I see Taze as a bigger experience of what you had with Gavin over coffee. It's something like that. So like, When did you go? To Taze. That was last year. Oh, good. Yeah. I mean, there's a sense of, I mean, I went 24 years ago. So he was either quite different then to what you're explaining, or maybe I misinterpreted some of it. That's also possible.

One thing that did make me nervous. Um, so after mass, they brought up the Eucharist so that they can give communion to the Catholics. But for non Catholics or people who are not in a state of grace or who are not well disposed, they could receive blessed bread. And then I'm like, it's just weird. Who's actually paying attention to, to like make us like, I don't know. And it's just a way to make people feel included. It's because I'm thinking there are people who are going to make a statement.

They're like, I'm just going to go into Catholic line and get the Eucharist. So that part I think they have to work on. Right. But as you say, just because it's not perfect doesn't mean there's not goods. He had an analogy. Here's the analogy. So we were talking a little bit about family systems, or what's that word? Yeah, internal family systems. Thank you. Internal family systems. Right, so you can imagine a person who is,

to use the word we often use today, wounded and aware of his chaotic tendencies, right, towards disorder, towards sin, okay, and he hates parts of them. He wants to set it in order, but he does it without patience, without gentleness, without kindness, okay, and consequently doesn't make much progress, you know, because he's not viewing himself with faith, who he is, where these parts came from, what they want. All right, I think today we have chaos and disorder, and I think there's this desire to put everything in order. Right.

And I think that's sometimes what I see in social media when I just have a photo with my friend Gavin. What would you do this with a heretic? I think it's that same thing where we're so afraid that the chaos is going to completely engulf us that we go about the world, he's in, he's out. I need it because there's no order around me That we're lacking order in our government in our in our populace in the church And so we feel the need upon us to set the world, right? But in so doing we no longer journey with people. We no longer encounter people in their poverty We don't have the freedom to do that. We don't have the freedom to do that with ourselves

You know, we we no longer do that. My goodness, that is powerful. Yeah. But what I find, though, is when people are secure in Christ, they know they're a beloved son. They know the Lord is at work in the world. Then I can look upon someone with gentleness and love. Oh, we need so much gentleness and love, because what's interesting is in a day and age where we're all so frantic and afraid that the chaos is going to engulf us and where just, you know, we're in the aftermath of the sexual revolution and destroyed marriages and like it's precisely now that a bit of gentleness would be terrific. Oh, my God. And like, bomb and, it would help.

But it's right now that the temptation is not to be gentle. It's to shout heretic. It's to shout. Now that isn't to say that there aren't heretics. It's not to say there aren't schismatics. There are. And we need to acknowledge what is true. Yes.

But with gentleness and love. With gentleness. You mean like the Bible says it? I mean, that's, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's what I'm seeing. Like when I'm doing well, when I'm journeying with the Lord, do you have something on your head? I felt something walking.

I didn't see it, but it's quite possible. Welcome to Stupendorf. No. Yeah. Then I can hold another person's poverty and my own with a sort of reverence. There's this beautiful prayer that I pray every morning. It's by St. Ephraim the Syrian, and it says, Lord, help me to see my own sins and not to judge my brethren. It gets caught in my throat every time. And I was recently in Croatia with my bride and we were walking to the beach and there's this Sheila in front of us,

good looking girl, and she's taking selfies of herself as she's walking, like completely oblivious to the world around her. It would appear from the outside that this is not like a very charming human interaction that she's having with her phone. And I'm just laying out all the judgments, you know, like all every part in me is condemning her, you know, sophisticatedly. So I can't notice that I'm pulling into sin. But then that lion rises up,

because I say it every morning, help me to see my own sin and not to judge my brethren. Oh, thank you for this sister of mine, you know. It's hard to be in that place, though. It's hard to stay in that place. It's easier to hate. It's easier to condemn. I had an experience with a parishioner that was getting on my nerves, just getting on my nerves. And I kind of put him in that category as, you know what? I'm just gonna keep you over there, not gonna talk to you, you're rude, you don't have understanding,

you can't work with people well. And then I realized, wait, I'm his father. What if I approach him with compassion and understanding? So one day I texted him. I say, hey, bro, just want to, he's a young man, just want you to know how you're doing. And I want you to know I'm here for you. I know things are bad in Haiti, in Port-au-Prince,

and I want to be helpful to you. Just let me know how I can be helpful. He rolled back pretty much in tears. Been like, father, I am so surprised you reached out to me. He's like, I never expected this, thank you so much. And we pretty much became best friends after that. The way he was able to, because he was holding this mask, this defensiveness, and I was holding my defenses

up and it was defenses, fighting defenses. But I'm behind my defenses, you can't see me. He's behind his defenses, I can't see him. But when I decided to lower my defenses, to lower my mask and my walls, he saw me. So he was like, I can bring mine down, and I saw him. You've just described every fight in marriage. Every successful argument in marriage is where our woundedness flares up. 100%. So that's why I'm glad that one day I hope to be here whenever Gavin is here, and I want to meet him and shake his hand and have coffee and have beer with him if he drinks beer, right? I don't know. Oh, okay.

But I love that debate he did with Trent. And who do you think won? I know you agree with the Catholic position, but who do you think had the more convincing case? I actually think Trent won. And I think the reason I think he won, now it's been a while since I've seen the debate, so if I'm mistaken I would love people to correct me, or you can correct me if you remember it. But it seems that the central argument that Gavin used, well first

of all, I don't think so I don't think scripture can be defended well. And it seemed that Gavin's central argument was an invalid argument from the start, which is that, premise one, Scripture is authoritative, is an infallible authority or rule of faith. Premise two, we haven't seen other – We know of no other, yeah. We know of no other infallible rules of faith. Therefore scripture is the only infallible rule of faith. There's a jump there that is invalid. You can't do that jump in philosophy and arguments. William Lane Craig had a debate with this fellow, this atheist who was a naturalist.

He was arguing for naturalism. So Craig pushed them to defend his case is that well, he we know nature exists yeah, that's we haven't seen anything beyond nature and Craig goes and He goes and therefore nature is all there is he goes no that's invalid You can't make that jump all you can say in conclusion is therefore we know nature exists But that doesn't get you to naturalism that gets you to nature is, therefore we know nature exists. But that doesn't get you to naturalism, that gets you to nature. So, two, that argument from Brother Gavin doesn't get you to sola scriptura, it

just gets you scriptura. And so, for me, it was an invalid argument, because trying to put the shift on the Catholic, that's nice, that's a good tactic to be tactic, to say, well, you have to prove another rule of faith. And the Catholic would, you know, have to defend his own rule of faith, certainly. But that's not a good argument for Sola Scriptura because it's invalid. I think that's been a couple of years now, so I wouldn't want to comment on it personally because I forget how he made that case. But just as you phrased it there, whether that's his exact formulation or not, I would

agree with you. For me too, a little bit to corrections. But I remember that was my reaction, thinking, that's his exact formulation or not. I would agree with you. And for me too, we'll put it to corrections. But I remember that was my reaction, thinking, that's... Yeah, at best that would show that Scripture is an infallible rule of faith. That's it. And you can say you've not seen arguments for others. To say that we know of no other, yeah, would just be to say, yeah, well, if that is the case that we know of no other, it might be the case that there exists another, but we can't invoke

it because we don't know what it is. Precisely. And then Trent comes in and has to invoke it because we don't know what it is. Precisely. And then Trent comes in and has to say, no, we do know what it is. Just like that other fellow, we haven't seen the supernatural or haven't seen proof of the supernatural, therefore it doesn't exist. That makes no sense. Somebody made that same statement to me on a post earlier yesterday, I think, that nothing exists until it is proven, until this existence is proven. So I say, great, can you prove that statement to me?

Well, you can't prove a negative. And no, I'm asking you to prove a positive. You made a positive statement that nothing exists until it's proven. Also, you absolutely can prove a negative, but continue. You actually can prove a negative precisely, but I didn't want to go there. I wanted to stick that term.

So anyway, this is what planting a call self-referentially incoherent statements. It's like if I said to you, I don't speak a word of English. Right. This is self referentially incoherent. Precisely. Yeah. Yeah. There is no truth or there is absolute truth, but no one can know it. Exactly. Is that absolutely true? Exactly. Those are always fun. I love those. Peter Criff works does a lot of those. And I love the fact that you love him so much. I love him. I'm gonna miss him.

Yeah, I don't mean to keep talking about him like he's about to die. But like I'm always surprised that he's coming back for another interview. I thought you'd be gone by now. I thought there was a time maybe a couple years ago that there was rumors about his death. Well, he had alopecia I think is what it was. That's why he lost all of his hair. It wasn't cancer. What was so cool about him is he's so humble he didn't care. He doesn't seem that concerned. I love, I love, I love Chris. He's kind of our modern Aquinas in a sense. Well he'll be mentioned I think in the same breath as Lewis and Chesterton. I agree. I agree. He would have to be. Jimmy Aiken, another hero of both of us, right? I think you're the guy who was like...

You've said of both Trent and Jimmy that I wouldn't want to debate him even about the name of my father. Yeah, that's right. I would lose. I would absolutely lose. But I've loved what Jimmy's been doing with the justification question in his debates with White. And I was very surprised actually that he had that debate with White. And there's two debates. I mean, I know we're always biased. I get that everyone's biased.

Our job is to see which biases line up with the truth. Precisely. But he seemed to wipe the floor with James White on the scriptura especially. I was shocked. Yeah, again, he was trying to show that you don't have an argument here. And James is always very eloquent.

And it seems that a lot of people are saying, oh, eloquence is nice, but this guy would be the substance behind it. And I don't think the arguments work. And on the justification question, I think he was disarmed because he did not expect James to... James or Jimmy? Well, sorry, I used to call him James. Jimmy. Yeah. James, who I did not expect Jimmy to sort of basically say, actually define of basically say actually defined precisely. Yeah, if you mean this by faith, then we can say faith alone.

Exactly. And then showing that that's Catholic theology. And James seemed to have thought that you're being evasive or something like that. Slippery. Yeah. And I don't think Jimmy was at all. In fact, it was not like Jimmy was trying to surprise him. He's written about those things in the past and of, uh,

and what we mean and what we do not, what we do not mean. Uh, and so I, I think, yeah, he's scary smart and he Jimmy, when I talk to Jimmy, it's, it's the same kind of dynamic as when I talk to my small child, you know, I'm the small child. Jimmy is the kind of person when I saw that interview you did with him and I watched the whole thing, by the way, six hours and 20 minutes. How could I not watch the whole thing?

It's Jimmy Akin. Yeah, I love the man. I would love to sit down with Jimmy. I've got so many questions from him to be like, Jimmy, let's talk. Oh, he would. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, he gets energy from interacting. He by the way, he did a well, I don't know if you know this, but after the six and a

half hour interview I did with him, I took him down to my cigar lounge and he said he'd do a talk, right? And I got up at the beginning and went, hey, Jimmy and I have just gone six and a half hours. And by the way, when I walked out, someone was out there and they said that Jimmy resembled a rider who went on riding long after his horse had died.

I was the horse, which I was pretty – I thought I was doing pretty well. I thought so. I thought it was funny. So anyway, get up at the cigar lounge. All right, so we just did a six-and-a-half hour interview, so this just maybe a 20-minute thing, and Jimmy was like, well, I mean, I can go a little longer. He was there, I think, for two and a half extra hours answering questions. Oh my gosh! So that's nine hours straight. Yeah.

I also love, by the way, his new collaboration with Cameron Birtuzzi on Capturing Christianity. Yeah. It was very surprising. I was like, wait, what? Yeah. Like I'm not used to seeing Jimmy in that context. Yeah.

But I guess he's on the board with Capturing Christianity. I don't fully understand it, but I know that he's helping somehow. Sure. And, but that's cool. That's, I mean, that shows the openness of Cameron and, and all that good stuff. What were you saying? I cut you off. You're talking about Jimmy. You'd love to talk to him. I would love to talk to him. We were talking about justification and how,

I think he did a great debate there, especially his point on purgatory. I've always believed that. And I say this all the time. Every Christian actually believes in purgatory. They just don't want to call it that. They just don't want to admit that they do, but every single Christian does. You can't not believe in purgatory. They just don't want to call it that. They just don't want to admit that they do, but every single Christian does. You can't not believe in purgatory if you believe. And he really cornered James White there, didn't he? And I've never seen James that way before,

where he's like, he chose not to answer. Yeah. It's like, wow, you could just answer James or even the other part about, do you agree with Benedict on this particular point? He does. But he doesn't want to say he agrees with Benedict. I took jujitsu for about four weeks and I would wrestle the instructor occasionally or sorry, roll with the instructor.

And what that instructor did to me, Jimmy does to his interlocutors. It's just so easy. You know, I mean, I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. And I really like his mysterious world because. I love it. You know, like I have family members who are really interested in like questions about 9-11 or Bigfoot or things like this. So to be able to share these excellent episodes that they get to the faith thing

at the end. Exactly. Precisely. There's a lot of good stuff. He did an episode on the zombies, Haitian zombies. Sum that up for me. Yeah. Since I haven't seen it. Oh, well, basically they're real. Haitian zombies are real.

You have to define your terms. I think I know what a Haitian is. I'm not sure. So zombies are people that are made to look like they're dead because of certain, you know, certain potion that people use against them and they mix that with rituals, you know, voodoo rituals, etc. And that actually when they use a potion on a particular person, which can be applied in different ways, the person will die

but they're not really dead. It's just that that potion has slowed down their heart rate so much that it's undetectable. And but the person's alive. And so they'll hurry most of the time. Their heart rate is undetectable? Yes, at least to most people. Are they almost comatose? So they just lying? Yeah, they just lying. They look there's no difference between them and a cadaver. They look completely dead, even though they might be able to hear what's going on. And so they'll bury them. But then that night, the people who have done

this, they will go in and get that person out and then apply some antidote and get them to start coming back. And usually they'll beat them to keep them in submission. And there are certain foods that they're not supposed to eat because that will help facilitate their returning to reason, to full consciousness. So they keep them in the in-between state and they use them as workers. Well, how can they use them as workers if they have no, almost no heart rate? No, no, no. That comes back. Oh, I see. Yeah, with the antidote.

Oh, I see. That comes back. But because they've lost so much oxygen by being buried and... They've kind of mentally disabled. Yeah, they've become mentally disabled, but they can still do some labor. And so it's like people will do that to people. Okay, so by zombie it means someone coming back from the dead as it were. Right. Yeah, all right. So it's still a bit tricky. I mean, they're not eating human flesh, are they? Not necessarily. Although I imagine it's still a bit tricky. I mean, they're not eating human flesh. Are they? Not necessarily.

Although I imagine it's not impossible that this would happen because again, they're controlled by the master. And sometimes there are some that escape. You know, we are not painting a great picture of Haiti in this episode. We've talked about gangs. That's true. And I'm glad you mentioned that, because that gives me an opportunity to like, obviously, I moved back to Haiti. I want to get to like, obviously I moved back to Haiti.

I want to get to that, but I still want to stay on the zombies for a little bit longer because this is fascinating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Haiti's great. We'll get to that. But the zombies. Yeah. Yeah. Now is this, is this, what is this condition called? I'm sure it's in French or Creole or whatever, but what do you refer to them as in Haiti? Zombies. Okay. Yeah. or Creole or whatever. But what do you refer to them as in Haiti? Zombies. OK. Yeah. And and is it widespread or is it just a couple of people? This has happened to. We can't say how many that has happened, but there have been scientific studies

on them. There have been doctors have written about them. There's been people that have been zombified, that have been that have escaped, that have been studied. Thursday, can you look at what episode number this was on Jimmy Akin's mysterious world so I can let people know? Yeah. And I thought when I saw Jim was going to do an episode, I was like, Jimmy, you're kind of out of your depth.

I don't think, but I was impressed. Okay. I was impressed. That's how I was like, okay, Jimmy is just a beast at that point. Like, what do you not know, dude? He is, I don't know, not sure. What is it? 159.

159. Episode 159, Jimmy Akin's mysterious world. I have to go listen to't know. Not sure. What is it? One five nine episode one five nine. One five. I'm sure as well. I have to go listen to it now. You got to listen to it. I don't know if you ever saw or even accidentally saw an episode or a clip of Big Bang Theory, but Jimmy Akin is as close to Sheldon Cooper as I've met. Yes. Yes. I've seen that guy. That Sean Cooper guy.

You're right. Jimmy is like annoyingly precise. Like I was asking him a question. It's haphazard thrown together and he'll disagree with me because of how I use this You're right. Jimmy Hick is like annoyingly precise. I was asking him a question. It's haphazard thrown together and he'll disagree with me because of how I use this term like, you know what I mean? He's like, I do, but I don't think you do. Haitian zombies. All right.

Yes. Haiti is a great place. Haiti is a beautiful place. Apart from the zombies. Haiti is a beautiful place and most people don't realize it, but Haiti is the first black Republican in the world. Haiti is the first. We talked about this in the last episode. I don't know if you remember. But because we're talking about these zombies, I think we did.

I thought about maybe going back to listen to it's like, what did I talk about? So I don't repeat this. Like, you know, I forget, let's let this be natural. But we are, we got an amazing people with an amazing history, amazing culture. There's a story I shared with people the other day. So with the whole history thing, there's the idea that we fought for our independence,

literally against the undefeated army of Napoleon Bonaparte from France, and we beat him and declared independence in 1804, January 1st. Of course France was a sore loser came back years later with warships and be like you need to pay reparations to us. Wait, don't you mean the other way that France needs to pay reparations to Haiti? Because you kind of enslaved us for ages, you know, like nope, unless you pay us the slave owners reparations, we're going to go back to war and this time we're going to annihilate you. Haiti couldn't go back to another

war. Haiti decided that they have to pay. They didn't have enough money. They borrowed from French banks. And by the way, since we have to, the New York Times came out with an amazing piece proving everything about that process and how France benefited from Haiti, from all that money, which would be the equivalent of at least $22 billion into this currency. How do you steal that much from a poor nation that's just beginning out of slavery? Yeah. So... I mean, there could be some pretty amazing statues, Napoleon under the heel of a Haitian

man. That's right. That's right. So, but like, we've become such a beautiful people. The generosity of the poor is amazing to me. Couple examples, there's this one little girl the other day after First Communion a couple weekends ago in my parish. We had a reception for a group of, I kids, 50 kids, so that nobody feels left out

because this family might have a reception after First Communion, but that family can't. And so, you know, all 50 kids in that particular group, we're going to have a common reception for you, and we have the parents contribute a little bit, and we're doing one thing. But this one little girl wasn't part of the group, but she was hungry. So she asked if she'd be able to go in and eat with the other kids. Like, absolutely. So I had to sit on my chair and then I sat next to her. But after eating the rice she left her big piece of meat and I was like, why? She says I want to, if it's okay I'd like to take it home for my sister. I was like, are you kidding me? Like bro, that broke me. Oh, one ticket. And she wrapped it in a

piece of napkin, put it in a cup and in her pocket to take it home to her sister. Beauty. And that's actually a very common thing in Haitians. That's why in a one room house, you'd have 10 people. Because they just, they want to help each other and I know this one single mother who's got two kids she adopted a third but then her daughter who saw this baby abandoned by a crazy mom she's like well her daughter is a teenager is like mom we can't let the baby die gotta take the baby mm-hmm so she took the baby teenager, and now mom and daughter are raising another baby. They were poor to begin with. And they've added another person because

they realized, okay, we're poor, but in our poverty, we can still love and help others. I mean, that's why I'm encouraged as I give my life to be with the poor. I have a mission to the beloved. Things like that show you not only with the poor, I have a mission to the beloved. Things like that show you not only how the people are beloved in a fundamental way, of course, because God loves them, but there's these beloved things that you see in them that is so powerful. So I give my life to them. That's why we're, yeah, there's a lot to do. There's a lot to do. We're trying to build schools for them, for the poor, to make sure that they get a good Catholic and virtuous education.

That's the other thing. Do you rely a lot on American missionaries or no? They're just sort of, they're helpful but they're not the main... So I don't rely on American missionaries to do the work in Haiti, but I rely at probably like 95% for the funding to be able to carry out the charitable work that I do with the poor there. What's the website that people could donate to? Mission to the beloved.com.

Now is Sean Forrest still involved? Absolutely. Is that his thing or not his thing, but is he involved in? So Sean and I met Sean in 2007, I believe. I love Sean. We're good friends. He's easy to love. He's oh my gosh Guys hilarious also Amazing dad is he oh my gosh The love that he's got for his children

He would also kill for them of course like like you don't mess with now and I mean the man is he's giant. He's giant But also the he's got a giant heart Like huge heart. So he started Haiti 180 with me Back in back in the day 20s 2007 very faithful Catholic mission helping the orphans We also Haiti 180 has a school a clinic and home for the elderly. So the old people, they die of fast, but we want them to die in dignity. And so we bring them in, live in a clean place with love. And so the kids at the orphanage,

which we don't like to call an orphanage, we like to call it a home for former orphans, because they're no longer orphans. You got family now. So the kids can play with the older people, like the grandma, the grandpa. So awesome, awesome awesome program that's Haiti 180 and with Sean for us and completely trust Sean and the work that's being done today my family's helping out on the grounds so yeah but yeah the great majority of what I do I

couldn't do it without the help of friends here who trust me who know me I don't my bishop apparently realizes that he's like I'd love for you to go study of what I do. I couldn't do it without the help of friends here who trust me, who know me. My bishop apparently realizes that. He's like, I'd love for you to go study, but I can't take you out of this parish. Especially now, the earthquake of 2021 really damaged us, put us to our knees. Our beautiful cathedral is not usable. It's not safe, so we can't be in there. It's been three years. And like the scripture that we're got is like, you guys are sleeping in your luxurious houses and my temple is in ruins. Well, I mean, we don't really have a luxurious house as God, but I get it. Your house is in ruins. So I'm doing a campaign to try to raise 20 grand to

to just do the pathology study for the lab to come in and x-ray the whole building to be able to tell us how bad the damage is so they can then give a quote for what it will cost to fix it or to demolish and then rebuild but it's too unsafe to go in there and then of course I'm trying to build up the people one student at a time one classroom at a time and I Asked people to sponsor students to sponsor classrooms a classroom. Now. We've gotten it done It's typically it's about 20 grand for a classroom with furniture in it

But I work with the engineers. We're like, can you bring it down in some way? To like 15 grand a classroom? So it's like people can easily do that. Building a forever home for a family, people sleeping in huts, that's like 20 grand for a home with a couple different rooms for the family to sleep in dignity. But anyway, yeah, so I talk about Providence depending on it. That's our life every single day. Sometimes I do not know if we'll have money for food the next month. Like Jen Rice, who's in town here, she helps with the administrative stuff of Mission to the Beloved. And she texts me like, oh, we only have like 13

grand left in the bank and it costs 8 grand to operate the parish. So I'm like, okay, we only have like 13 grand left in the bank and it costs eight grand to operate the parish. So I'm like, okay, so that's one month and a half. Okay, all right. Lord, Lord, help us. But anyway, but my people in the poverty, they'll smile. After that earthquake of 2021, the next Sunday, they pulled out their clothes from under the rubbles, washed them, ironed them, and dressed up the best for God and came to Mass to give Him thanks. There's a beauty to that people. And so, and there's a strength to that people that's been so victimized by horrible people in Haiti and out of Haiti, but they have the will to live and to rejoice in the Lord. So that's why I'm there to preach the gospel and

to help the poor, to serve the poor. I want to tell you about Halo, which is the number one downloaded prayer app in the world. It's outstanding. Halo.com. Matt Fradd, sign up over there right now and you will get the first three months for free. That's like a lot of time. You can decide whether it's useful to you or not, whether it's helpful. If you don't like it, you can always quit. Hallow.com slash Matt Fradd. I use it, my family uses it.

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So if you're a parent, you could play little Bible stories for them at night. It'll help them pray. Fantastic. Hello.com. slash. Matt. Fred. It was beautiful speaking to Chloe Cole because, and I've always known that this is a temptation, but I really felt it speaking to her, that we can accidentally blur the ideology with the person, you know? So like you live in a country that's pushing all this propaganda down your throat, the LGBT rainbow flag stuff, that you can come to, I think rightly despise it,

and you gotta be on guard against not despising the individual. Because I think she really helped me understand like these poor people, these poor men and poor women, you know, who deal with this. And yes, you know, because she, she just felt really comfortable with her male friends. And then all of a sudden her body starts developing.

She feels uncomfortable and yes. And, and, and maybe, maybe I forget if she said this or not, but I know others have said that they, they've seen the way women are treated in pornography and they don't want that. So I don't want to become like this. And so she goes on TikTok and she starts seeing people who are quote unquote non-binary. And then she starts, you know, just a hurting girl looking for identity.

Bro, that is such deep truth right there that you're laying down. We have to see the human person in every situation. God seeks for the human person in every single situation. Where are you? He says to Adam. Yeah and so it's one of the best reactions I've ever gotten to a talk about that kind of issue. That was years ago. There there was a Stubival Conference. And what I did was, I didn't just teach how bad, I didn't just quote the church's teaching on homosexuality.

Obviously, we presuppose it, I presuppose it with the kids. They know it, and so we've already taught about it. But I wanted to go further. I identified myself with the kids that felt they had same-sex attractions because I know they exist. I know they're there. And even some of them are embarrassed,

you know, of what their friends will think. I said, I just want to let you guys know, I want to thank you who though you are living that cross, but you are doing your best to be faithful to the Lord and to the teachings of the church when I know it's not easy. And I feel a certain connection to you because as a priest, as a celibate man, I too, I have many temptations, but I am called to live a life of celibacy. Some of you may feel like that might be your only option because you are attracted to the

person of the same sex, but you can't romantically be involved with that person. And I said, the fact that you can carry that cross, you're a hero. And I had like, I was a standing ovation. And I was like, I didn't expect it, but I just wanted to let them know that I see them, the person behind the struggles. And you're right, we can tend to forget the person behind there. Whether or not they're spewing out awful ideology,

they're still a human person. Yeah. Was discerning the priesthood, how difficult was knowing you would have to be celibate? It was very difficult. It was very difficult. In fact, most of my discernment took place while I was here at Franciscan University, at Steubenville. But also that's when I was learning about what discernment was. That term wasn't a big term for me as I was growing up. I just thought, you know, back home really, like, if you think you're going to be a priest, then you just go to seminary and then you

graduate. Don't you dare come back from seminary. That's a failure. Oh, I see. This lady was so freed the other day, she's like, oh my gosh, I need to go apologize to my nephew. Because I've just put him in this category of your failure. You made me think you wanted to be a priest and I helped you. You got into seminary and now you came out. How awful you are. It's like, no, honey, seminary is not university. Seminary is a discernment information program. What are you smiling about?

As to what's that? You're smiling. I didn't know if I had something on my shirt. Oh, no, no, no. I'm just thinking of... Okay. You're looking at her in your mind. You're really visualizing her. I want to see the person. Oh, honey. Yeah. And I had to tell her, he discerned out that success. You go to seminary to be formed

and to find out whether or not God is calling you to be a priest. That's what it's for. And so if he discerned that was in his call, then that was in his call. And thank God he didn't try to keep going. She's like, oh my gosh, I didn't think of it that way. I need to go and apologize to him. She stopped helping him. So for me, you know, learning about discernment here, you know, it was actually a difficult time for me at first because that's when I was like, oh my gosh I'm falling in love with every pretty girl. I can imagine Well, well tip I wasn't usually oblivious and my friends tell me that but That's it. I'm oblivious. That's why I've never been

Sorry, oh you wanted me to say because I'm really ugly You know like I I I think maybe when I was younger a couple of times I got the impression that someone Never happens to me never has happened to me like it has had like twice three times, right? But I was just joking them again. That's it. It's not because people don't want me, it's because I'm oblivious. All right. So what I was saying is that I didn't usually notice things because, but some people would tell me that actually, no, this person has a crush on you. I was like, how would I tell that? Yeah. In that sense, I was oblivious. So, but yeah, so I was falling in love left and right. It's like, oh my gosh, like because when you mix beauty and holiness together You know forget about it, right? So there are pretty girls

Yeah, they'll go into the chapel to pray and to do the religion of the hours early mass Confessions going to do saglor counseling in front of the abortion clinic And I was like, wow, that's very attractive. So it had to be a real discernment. So yes, it was difficult, but then the Lord led me and held my hands and gave me as much as I could be certain of it that He's calling me both, first of all, to fall in love with Him all over, which is the only indispensable thing, he said, then to be a priest and then to go to Haiti. Not in chronological order, but in order of importance, those things.

Because I had wanted to go to Haiti before, but it felt like that was my plans and I was going to serve Haiti. But God detached me from that by allowing me to think that I was going to go to Mexico to be with the missionaries of Charity Fathers. And for two years I thought that was it. So through those two years I was able to detach myself from Haiti. The Lord detached me. And then I was able to be sent to Haiti as a missionary, really, and to be called to

Haiti. And this time I realized God wanted me to serve Him in Haiti and in the Haitian people. And so with that detachment, my bishop could send me anywhere from Haiti because it's not, the number one is God. God is a priority. God is number one. And I think that discernment, what I wish I had gotten in my discernment and that I so wish for every single person discerning today, and I think could solve a lot of problems later on, is this. Every single one of us is called to marry with God, every single person.

Some are called to have that total marriage with God in a mediated fashion with another human person that would show you the face of God and to whom you show the face of God God's unconditional love you get to play it out. You get to practice it in a sense Some of us are called to an unmediated Union with God that anticipates the eschatological marriage with Christ that again to which were all called I never was comfortable with the idea of the celibates give their whole lives to God, then I'm like, but what about the married people? They don't give their whole lives?

Like, are they giving parts of their heart to God and then another part to their spouse? It didn't make sense to me. But we're all called now to give all of ourselves to God. So I said, but you could do it in the mediated marital state with God through holy matrimony or in the unmediated marital state with God in celibacy, in consecrated celibacy. And so I was like, oh, so those are the primary – besides holiness, those are the primary callings for every single person. It is from that I think the other discernments will come in. Because when you think about it, for the priesthood for example, the way it seems to go these days is, do you

feel called to the priesthood? Yes. By the way, you realize you can't have a girlfriend. It's like, oh, I guess I'll have to do it if I really want the priesthood. So it's virginity for the priesthood. But then the Church says she ordains those men that have been gifted with the gift of celibacy that are called to celibacy. So celibacy precedes the priesthood in that sense. The church doesn't just get guys and they'll be like, because what happens is that many people will tolerate celibacy. Like since I really want the priesthood, I will tolerate this celibacy thing, this life

of virginity for the sake again of being a priest. But and you'll notice many people if they leave the priesthood, the first thing they'll probably try to get married or if they leave seminary, they try to get married. So it's like, so they didn't come from a state of I've committed my life to the eternal marital state with God in celibacy and from that, from that pool of celibate people, men, the church can call forth some to be ordained to the ministerial priesthood, while others just live that basic life of matrimony with God in celibacy. So I think it's – I think, who am I? So I propose this, right, that if we help people realize

their call to holiness as marriage with God in one way or the other and to pursue celibacy for the sake of the kingdom, to show that to people as a beautiful path, And from that to also encourage those men maybe to consider the priesthood. That way it's not like... Yeah, so you're saying that men should in themselves find this gift for celibacy, whatever that looks like, and then be open to the priesthood? Like we've got it the other way around? Again, it doesn't have to be chronological, but there's an order, ontological, right? It's an ontological thing, like it's again again, but that's also the language of the church. But that's exactly what I'm saying, what you were just saying right there.

It's that- And then how does a man know that if he's called to celibacy? Well, very good. Because you don't want a man who's like, because I'm not attracted to- Exactly. What's similar to someone who knows is called to marry this girl. I'm called to marry Cameron, you felt You feel a resonance in your soul with Cameron, right?

So it's like okay, there is there is a connection Okay, so too if we actually live out the life of the gospel a love of prayer People will feel called to unite with God in that state if it's presented to them so they can know that it's a possibility. Like virginity ought to be proposed and promoted indeed as a real path, not just for the sake of the priesthood, is what I'm saying. Not just for the sake of the priesthood. God is calling many to be married to Him, to anticipate the heavenly marriage even now. That's what holy celibacy is for. But we need each other. The married people and the celibate people need each other because in your marriage you're showing me

certain sacrifices that I ought to be able to make for my God. Like the way you care for Cameron, the way Cameron will care for you, the way in her sickness, you want to be compassionate with her. You'll do whatever it takes. You'll have to go down to Florida. It's like, wow, you're modeling for me what I ought to be able to do in my marriage with God. Cantala Mesa speaks of this in his little book called Virginity. It's like, you know, back in the day, the communities, the men and the women would get up in the middle of the night to do matins, which is office of readings today.

But it's because of certain circumstances in the modern time, they don't really do that anymore. You could be office of readings any time. But it might be a good thing to go back to because you realize people think, oh, how hard a life. But then you look at a married person and they have one baby, two babies, they get up not once in the middle of the night, they're getting up four, five, six, seven times. What a sacrifice. It's like, oh wow. So you can model for us certain sacrifices in humanity. We, celibates, can model for the married couples

that the priority of God, the primacy of God, like what you're living for in your marriage is for that primacy of God to live it now, to realize God is always first, no matter what happens in your life. It's like, oh, so I'm a reminder to you, you're a reminder to me, and we can nourish one another. I remind you of what's to come, that we're all called guys. Like, your marriage is for this life alone, and it's meant to lead you to that which I'm starting to live even now in an unmediated manner. And so I think that is a healthy way of looking at celibacy in marriage and of discernment,

because what happened to me later on is when I'm learning all this, I'm like, wait a minute, it was never presented to me that way. What if I wasn't called to celibacy? Crap, I'm already ordained. But I had to work through that, through that difficulty, and it wasn't an easy difficulty. And that's why I'm like a big promoter of it. Like today I did a vocations call.

I didn't just call guys to become priests. I presented those paths to them that God can call you to be His alone in an unmediated way. And I keep using that phrase because He also calls you to be His alone even in marriage, but in a mediated manner. And this mediation is not a bad thing. He calls you to it, and He meets you there. He meets you in Cameron. Oh, He does. Yes. And so you to it and he meets you there. He meets you in Cameron. Oh, he does. Yes. And so it's a beautiful and powerful.

Has the vow of celibacy become easier or harder over the years or does it sort of, the difficulty come in spurts? It comes in spurts. I think, you know, like in the first couple years, being ordained is like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm actually a priest. Like I would like to pinch myself. I pinch myself like, I'm a priest of Jesus Christ. A real priest forever. Oh my God.

Like dude, it was like, I couldn't think of anything else, but like the beauty of that, right? But then there are moments of weakness. They're seeing a beautiful person like, oh, and then so the Lord took me back, retrained me, reformed my mind as to what celibacy is for, and then basically had to make a recommitment to celibacy as if I were just discerning it before the priesthood. Right? Because otherwise, I'm in trouble.

Because if I'm thinking, I even thought about writing to the Holy Father. To be like, Holy Father? Maybe I'm called to be a married priest. Is there a way you could do some kind of dispensation? You went through a phase. When was that? Oh yeah, absolutely. That was within the last couple of years. Wow. And I was, I talked to my friends, I was like, bro, I got to write the Pope.

I was like, cause I don't want to. What was it that you were experiencing that made you doubt it? I mean, other than what you've already said about not having discerned. Exactly. For me, this is what I thought. I thought if this was presented to me beforehand, I probably would not choose to be a priest. I see. Because I would not have thought that God was calling me on the path of celibacy for

the sake of the kingdom. Yep. I like the priesthood. Yep. And because of that, I make the sacrifice for celibacy rather than, oh, wow, God, thank you for this call to marriage with you in celibacy. Oh, and also for calling me to the priesthood within that calling. And so it was like, oh, had it been presented, I thought that maybe I would have chosen another path. I was like,

oh, you know what? I will choose the mediated marriage with God with another woman, with a woman, not another woman. And so that was playing around in my head thinking, oh my God, but thank God I have good people in my life that I can talk to, including my bishop. So important. That's another thing with my bishop. I'm an open book. I'm like bishop.

I've met your bishop. He's fantastic. Oh my gosh. I'd like him to be pope. We can mention something about him. He was burnt in an explosion. His recuperation. Recently? Recently, February 18th. Oh, I'm sorry. I'd like him to be put we can mention something about him. He was burned in an explosion. He's recuperating recently recently February 18th

apartment a Huge explosion went off flames everywhere. He had to run through the flames God to get out 40% of his body was burned sorry his whole face legs arms. How is he still recuperating? He's finally after five operations surgeries He finally came out. Some, they're still investigating to see if it was criminal or if it was accidental. They're looking into it. I would not be surprised if it were criminal because he's a legend. He loves the people. He fights for the poor and he will tell the truth to whomever. Don't care who you are in government

or whatever. He will tell it to you. And there are people, there's a particular diplomat who was in Haiti, I don't know if he's still there, but he was kicked at my bishop because he dared to mention that, you know what, even some people in diplomacy that are here might be involved in what's happening today in Haiti and supporting the gangs, etc., and the violence in Haiti. Wow. Yeah. So, some people didn't like him. But yeah, I spoke to him.

I was like, Bishop, this is what I'm experiencing. These are my feelings. These are my thoughts. And he's such a father. Were you ever afraid that you'd leave the priesthood during that time? For a little bit. But then I quickly realized that, no, I don't want to leave the priesthood. I just want to be a married priest. And that's why I was like, I'm going to write to the pope. Yeah.

And we're like, can you do something about that? I'm like, I know it's not possible. But you know, when you're like, you just like, you think of all sorts of possibilities, that maybe you could just be like, I could make an exception. I'm the Pope. Yeah. Um, and my, and one of my friends go yours, right? The Pope actually, it's funny. When he said that I was like, okay, I guess I don't have to, that's actually a trick inside. Call it one other trick, but it's a process when, so there's a part of you that wants something. There's another part. That's like, maybe not.

And so you align with that part that wants it really badly. And actually that part realizes, I don't think I want to be responsible for all of that. So it pulls back a little bit. Catherine Doherty up in the Madonna house in Canada, Cumbermere, I think it is. Someone had was about to pledge a life of celibacy to this whatever. And he said to her that he just just he kind of wanted to go out and Live his life. Yeah, maybe even have different girlfriends and she was like, okay fun. Go do it Okay, go sleep around good drink do what you want to do

And when you realize none of that satisfies you you can come back. Well, it's that thing isn't that way like oh I can Well, just just so because people are listening to can. Oh, I don't want to. Exactly. Well, just, just so, because people are listening to you say there was a point you want to be a merit preacher. Is that still something you should? I don't think so. Yeah. The Lord is working my heart and helping me to fall in love more and more, not just with the priesthood, but with celibacy itself as a true gift, as a true moral state. Yeah. And I usually wear my wedding ring, if you will, to be united to God in that sense. But there's always a yearning,

but what I realize is that the yearning is not necessarily a sign that you're called to something else, but it's rather the offering that is provided by the Lord to be able to give him as an offering as a sacrifice. If there's no yearning, there's no sacrifice. If there's a sacrifice, something is missing, I'm not being fulfilled. And so to be able to make that sacrifice, there has to be a deep yearning. And so, yeah, so that's-

First of all, thank you so much for being so honest. It's so honestly is so helpful Hey, man, so free. I gotta do a shout out to the fellas at the knack in Rome Yes I gave a talk there recently and then that night was sitting up on the balcony overlooking Rome having some cigars with these fellas Really good men just normal well-rounded. They couldn't help themselves. They just had to keep talking about Jesus and You know, it's beautiful. But I love love your honesty. And I've said this before, but in a way, I mean, who am I to say this? Because I'm not in the celibate state, but in a way, I sometimes wonder how different our struggles are. Because I think before you're a

priest, you might think, well, gosh, why would it be a priest? I could have any of these women. I mean, they might not have you, but you think that. But really what you're a priest, you know, you might think well gosh, why would it be a pretty I could have any of these women I mean they might not have you but you think that right right, right, but really what you're sacrificing is one relationship One mediated relationship right? You know what I mean? Correct. It's just one So it's like you look out you think your brain starts to go out and all these directions But it's not yet hemmed in by reality, this specific woman with a specific personality, her beauty, her sin, her annoying habits, her beautiful habits. Absolutely. And so I wondered too, because the married man might look at a woman, not his wife, and think, gosh, maybe I should have married her, you know, Susie from grade school. Or, you know,

he gets into a friendly relationship and thinks, you know, maybe the Lord would make an exception here. I feel like I come alive and I'm around this person. I feel like the married man goes, okay, if he's sensible and he comes back to his senses, realizes, okay, now that's BS. I'm telling myself to try to justify this, but like how does the celibate man realize that as well? You know? Because I wonder if your experience of seeing a beautiful woman or getting to know a beautiful woman and just having this fleeting temptation is any different to mine. Like maybe it's just kind of the same. You know, because there's times I look at this woman, she's beautiful. Oh, gosh, she's gorgeous. And yes, there's always gorgeous women. Exactly. And there's always

going to be another gorgeous person. Of course, yes. And so, and I say gorgeous persons all the time and I'm attracted to them. Yeah. A slight difference might be in that I am cognizant of my fatherly role. There is something that people will see in me.

People will be immediately more vulnerable to me than to you. A woman will be more vulnerable to me than to you. If I take advantage of that, there's something really wrong there. And how many priests too many, even if it's not that many, too many have. Right, right. And- The wounding that's done there. Not to judge any of them, but except to pray for them with compassion and to call to repentance. Yeah.

You know what I mean? But like, and so it's like, oh, we gotta be careful. Father Roger Landry mentioned something like, if we really take our paternity, our paternal state as a priest very seriously and see everyone as our children, you know, it kind of becomes as yucky as, what do you call that, family with family? Incest. Incest, it's like spiritual incest, like ooh.

So that's one way to think about it. But beyond that though, one thing too that the Lord has been showing me more and more is that as you see a person, let's say who is immodestly dressed, a beautiful woman immodestly dressed, there's such a temptation to reduce the person to a part or to some parts of the body.

More and more, the Lord is showing that what's happening actually is, JP too mentioned something like that from the other perspective, pornography is not showing too much, it's showing too little. But also, when I reduce that person like that to a part of their body that's really attractive, or even that maybe she is emphasizing, for whatever reason, I'm blind. I have blindness.

And by that I mean, I'm unable to see the more that is in her but when I see her and if you stop and think this is a person with dreams yeah with hopes with anxiety with sadness with sickness with illness with frustrations with fears you begin to realize, oh my gosh, that is a human person in front of me. And you're able to zoom out and see the whole. That part is still there. That was attractive.

That might still be attractive, but you realize that's a part of a whole. Right, like her sexual value is of value, but to reduce a person merely to the sexual value is to in a way do what death does, separate body and soul. Precisely. Yeah. What I do when I see a gorgeous woman who's wearing a little too little and I can't but see her because maybe she's in front of me or something, look at the eyes. I mean, obviously you should always do that, you know what I mean? But really take attention to the person which is expressed so, for whatever reason attention to the person. Yes expressed. So For whatever reason in the eyes. I also do this though if I'm at an airport and somebody's perhaps dressed too

Little on or something like that What I do to show myself the how how abhorrent lust is is I look? At the men around me looking at her. There's nothing so, it's like cold water on the face. I always see in their gaze, this doesn't always happen. I'm not saying everyone's doing this, but sometimes I might look around and no one's looking at her. But if you look at a man, look at her, you go,

oh yeah, I don't, I don't want to be like that. I think the Lord revealed something to me recently, Father, and I have already failed in this episode. So everyone's going to hold me accountable after I admit it. Maybe that's a good thing. I feel like the Lord revealed something to me recently, Father, and I have already failed in this episode, so everyone's going to hold me accountable after I admit it, maybe that's a good thing. I feel like the Lord's saying to me, if you want to grow like just like a rocket ship taken off in the spiritual life, these two things, don't swear. Guard your lips and guard your eyes.

Because I think I've fallen into that where, it is easy to fall into where you just find yourself eyes kind of bouncing around Yes, and you're not thinking anything sexually necessarily you just start to do this a lot. Yes. Yes And you're like, oh wow what and and because no one's can call it out in you. Yes. They see you, you know, yes Yes, um, yeah, I mean swearing is different you say it they might say hey, maybe don't use that language Yeah, but that's something the Lord I think is calling me to is like to guard your speech. Because what is a self restraint? It's modesty. It's all of those things. It's not just all the word shit is unhelpful. It's not just bad.

It's, you know, guard your speech, modesty, self constraint, but then also these little sacrifices that no one will know about. So, and I guess this is all on my mind because I was just in Croatia at a beach. Okay. So like a lot of beautiful people. because I was just in Croatia at a beach. Okay. So like a lot of beautiful people and I'm just gonna throw this out here. I don't know why, but every woman in Slovenia is beautiful. I mean, even my wife agreed. Like my gosh, what is happening?

Melania Trump is from there, you know, she's beautiful. But yeah, it's just so beautiful. Anyway, at this beach and people are dressed, you know how they're dressed. But yeah, just this, if I can offer, at this beach and people are dressed, you know how they're dressed. But yeah, just this if I can offer this little sacrifice and I share this because I want to get better at it. I also share it for maybe husbands out there. If I'll notice someone walking, making that sacrifice not to look and I'll say, I offer this for you, Cami, for my wife.

And I don't tell her this, you know, and I've said it now. So I lose any credit otherwise would have had. But I got little things. And even if you don't do that several times a day, the one time you do it is, okay, I thought of it as the end of the day as a little bouquet I can offer to the Lord. It's like, here's these little things and they're not heroic. No one's going to congratulate me for not looking at a woman in black. That's what you should be doing anyway. But just the every, and another thing I find is if I swear like I just did is to make the sign of the cross just quickly. I like that. So it's not because, you know, you fall into a habit. Yes. So if you tell yourself just don't do it anymore, it can be

overwhelming to the point where you just give up. Right. So I basically said to myself, okay, fine, do it if you want, but then make the sign of the cross. And just like a little kind of thing like that. Wow. I find that adding that beautiful thing helps. I agree. And that's powerful. Yeah. And we were saying earlier how the yearning, like the yearning to see and to, and to, and to watch, because there is some value there in what you're seeing, but unfortunately the concupiscence that is in us that can distort that,

what we see that beauty, but that yearning can be offered up as a sacrifice unto the Lord, which is what you've chosen to do, which is, you know, when you choose to do that, which is pretty awesome. And we've all fallen, we've all, which is why this whole CP Map program, which by the way, I would love every single priest to go through. That's part of my own- What is it? Catholicpsychology.com? What's his website? Catholicpsych.com. Catholicpsych.com. Yeah, it's the Catholicpsych.com Institute, but the website

is Catholicpsych.com. Yeah. The program that I'm going through to be certified as a mentor, spiritual director, coach, counselor, everything, is so good that I just want to take it and stick it in every seminary. To get to know who you are and to get to see other people as human beings in the beauty, reverence, and brokenness that they are and to hold them with reverence. Bro, like that's transformed my life and even working through my own celibacy, my own calling, my own weaknesses, my failures, my virtues, it's like, wow. And to let every part of me speak and come up, those that were hidden, I'm telling you.

So I would love all my brothers to go through CP MAP with Catholic site, but it's gonna sound like I get paid to do it, I don't. I just I get excited about when I find something good, when I when I find something that's helpful to people. I'm always wanting to help others. I was talking with a priest at the NAC, and he said he had this really great analogy to me. Thursday, maybe you can look this up. I don't know how long it takes for the stars, the

starlight to reach our eyes. But basically what we're seeing isn't... It might not even be there anymore. It's not what is in the moment. It's what was, like how many hundreds of years ago, or thousands. So what he said to me is is what we're complaining about in the church might be starlight. That isn't to say there aren't things that need to be rectified, but just that good is happening right now that we can't see yet and we will see it. And I feel that way when I look at these beautiful, good, manly priests at the neck. Amen. I see the work you're doing in Haiti. Praise the Lord. I see the

good work of Bishop Barron and Father Mike Schmitz. Yes. Focus bringing 20,000 people to a conference. How many people did you have this weekend? Oh, 1,800 with the young people. Beautiful. I was thinking the same thing. I was looking at the window thinking, this is a weekend. These kids came here to a Jesus event, listening to talk, going to confession, coming to mass, repenting. I'm like, those are young people. Yeah. And you know, we usually think of all young people, they're gone, they're far gone. But no, something is happening.

Yeah. And the Lord is working. And I really appreciate that. Yeah, you're always seeing the past when you look at the. So that's I like that a lot. Not not because, because, as you said earlier, we want our hope to be grounded, we want it to be tethered, we don't want to be cockeyed optimists who aren't really seeing reality as it is. But the Lord is on the move.

And one thing I realized during my time in Europe, because I went to about 15 different countries to preach glory to Jesus Christ. Amen. I realized how the American church should not apologize for its influence. Everyone I met, it seemed like, if I got to talk to them, they would all say, so glad for Father Mike Schmitz. Like Bishop Barron's thing, Jeff Kavan's that Bible timeline thing. Yeah, Scott Hahn.

Scott Hahn. And I'm just like, wow.. Wow! Much of Catholicism in Europe feels like a facade with not a lot behind it these days, but these young men and women are really being strengthened by the good work taking place in America. Good, imperfect, sure, but good. If I want to look up something and I'm doing a teaching or whatever, I could just look it up in French or I could do it in English. I always do it in English, not only because I'm more comfortable with the language, but also is that there's so much more that is produced that is made available to the people here in America.

The Thomistic Institute is another example. Oh my, I love them. The good work of Trent and Catholic Answers. Yes. And I think what we often do is we- Hallelujah. I don't know what you think about this, but we, when we realize that something isn't the answer to everything, we get discouraged or upset about it. Yes. It's like,

yeah, well, Bishop Barron, like he's not, it's like, but okay, like just because someone or something is not the answer to everything. That does not mean it's not the answer to something. Yes. I was sitting with a dear friend of mine who was dying recently in Australia and she had left the church, unfortunately, and was attending a Protestant group, but she was saying that she loves Bishop Barron and how helpful he's been to her. And so how many, and I heard this recently, Frank Turek, you ever heard of him? I have heard of him. He just said in an interview with Jimmy Akin, I hope Catholicism is the true church. That's what he said. I watched, I had to watch that interview. I said, wild, but he said he loves Bishop Barron, right? Like that's what I'm saying. Like these,

it's so beautiful. It is absolutely amazing. Yeah. And thank God for that. Thank God for, and this is to touch a little bit. There can be online, especially such negativity. Like you would think the church is dead. Yeah. And that's why, um, okay. So there can be evil things happening that we call out. We have to be so humble and careful. One thing we should, that I've noticed happening is that especially in some of the podcast

space in America, is that some people will cling to podcasters as the new magisterium. Yeah If they don't say it then it's not right if they oppose it then it's wrong That is so dangerous Veganer yes, you know systematic yes called out by the Magisterium for this and yet know, schismatic, yes, called out by the magisterium for this. And yet you've got podcasters who are either casting doubt on that or congratulating. They got themselves a badge of honor to be called a schismatic by the magisterium. How could that be ever good? And it's like, and the people are saying, well, you know, we have to take things into context.

What context? There was nothing that can justify schism from the Church of Jesus Christ. Nothing can justify that. And I want to feel for people who feel like they have great difficulty, perhaps, with a Holy Father, and I purpose to say Holy Father because that's who He is. Only He is that. I'm not the Holy Father. I could not be the Holy Father. I don't want people to take me as the Holy Father. People might like my preaching, people might like what I teach, and that's great. And they might like the way I say things, how I could be direct with certain things, how so-and-so can be. None of us is the Holy Father but the Holy Father.

I love this bishop, this cardinal and the awesome none is the Holy Father who's been called by Christ, instituted by Him, given a special grace and promise to lead his church. And so I want to be cognizant of that. I want to be cognizant of people who feel want to be cognizant of people who's like feel, but I know that, but I have a difficult time receiving that, that I can work with and embrace and walk and work with that person. But to then just dissent publicly. and I say this too, the way people can trash talk each other, even the Holy Father, it's like, I don't care what you feel about Pope Francis. I don't care what you think about him. You can't trash talk your father like that. And guys, it's

like a friend of mine said this, a professor, he goes, I feel like, I don't like everything Pope Francis says, but I feel like Catholics, we're like a big family at a restaurant. We're fighting so hard. There's other people in the restaurant. We're throwing food at each other. We're slapping each other. And people are looking at us and we're like, and by the way, this is the church you should join. And then we're just going at it. It's like, that's something is wrong there. So I like that. So that's unhelpful. I agree with you. But I think the opposite, you agree with me, is's unhelpful. I agree with you But I think the opposite you agree with me is also unhelpful where it's like everything is fine It's like clearly there are dysfunctions. We can all see him. Yes, it's got to be some middle path

We like no things aren't fine. There are confusion things. We do have a sinful pope. We have a sinful Matt Fradd We have sinful bishops. We have simple you whoever's watching this, you know, look at the wretch You are you know, not you the person watching We have sinful you whoever's watching this, you know, look at the wrench you are, you know, not you the person watching You know, and it's like so yeah, so to deny it is obviously not a good idea We should never deny it Yeah Just like we shouldn't deny for example the sins that have been committed in the military in the past people won't take us seriously Yeah, if we think if we say that everything is great. Everything is dandy

It's so patently false. Yeah that people won't take you seriously. The question is, how do we process that, especially in the public space? Yeah, well, before we get to that, I want to also add one point that I think some complaints people have is, okay, this is being done to vegan-o. I would say vegan-o did it to himself, if you deny that. Yes, I agree. But what about these other people who don't seem to be called on the carpet? Sure. Fine. Great. That's a great objection. But that's not a that's not an objection to a vegan exactly is this is my agree completely

Yeah, so you can you can raise that flag fair enough. I agree you can you can bring that to your bishop you can the Exactly say it respectfully yes You can even write to the Vatican, make your voice known. The thing is, when it's like when everyone is being put on trial on YouTube or in the podcast world, it's like again people more and more are going towards that as the last voice, as the jury. But we're not the jury, we are sons and daughters of the church with concerns. A dear friend of mine, Michael Forrest, I thought his response to Fiducia's supercons was a very balanced one. He was very uncomfortable with the language and he thought he didn't

see how the language could work. So he wrote's yeah. So he wrote a piece, he expressed that as a way both to show like people who feel like they're confused, they're like, okay, you're not crazy, you're not stupid for being confused. But he also didn't say, well, he's a heretic. Right. He didn't publicly dissent because it is a magisterial document. Yeah. And therefore there are consequences for that. Yeah. Because it's it's by just a document and I've seen other bad other unhelpful reactions even in my own country so Haiti, Africa they don't really play with that stuff yeah so there was a lot of confusion I had to talk to so many people to be like let's

talk through this What does this mean? What it does not mean? Now I felt like when it first came out I Was very uncomfortable. I still I think I was I was I think cumberly. Yes, and you tell me if you think I'm going to Fire here a massively unhelpful and unnecessary document If at the end of the day what you're telling me is you can bless a man who's in a homosexual relationship, we all knew that. That's that, you know. Yeah. So and the reason I want to push back there too is I also don't want to fall back into the other trap,

you know, because sometimes people will say, you know, what you said earlier about Gavin and Trent, this, this, therefore, therefore what? What's the point? I think that's the same when people say, okay, like, what if, what if the Vatican's corrupt? What if the church corrupt? What if the pope, you're like, yes, yes, yes, I can accept all that. But it doesn't, you know, exactly. It doesn't lead to the conclusion that you think it leads to. So with the, oh, you were saying what I think about, yeah, like that's my opinion. If I'm allowed to share that about that document. I think you're allowed to share it. That you think it's an unhelpful document.

What I think, what I disagreed with, there's another fruit of mine that I... Well, there's some unhelpful responses where people just literally just dissented immediately. They're like, this is his reaction. That's a knee-jerk reaction. And I understand it because I want to understand the person and their feeling. When someone feels like the rug under your feet is pulled out from you, it's an existential crisis.

This is the church I trust in, but I feel like I can't trust anymore. So I don't want to belittle that feeling and that experience with the person. I feel like I had the responsibility of saying, oh, I don't, that doesn't sound right to me, but Lord, come, Holy Spirit, come. And then I said immediately, okay, what is the most hermeneutically continuous way? Charitable way of interpreting this. The most charitable way I can interpret this. And that's what I did. And you know what I did?

What I came up with was, and I'll get back to the question of, is it helpful that we all knew we could bless a homosexual man? We didn't all know it. And I'll tell you why. But for me, I thought, okay, of course the biggest piece was like,

what does it mean to bless a couple? Why that word? That word was the most confusing in my mind. But so what I did was this. I can bless a voodoo doctor. That's not immediately evident to some of my Haitian brothers and sisters. How dare you? I could bless even a gang member.

How? Are you supporting the gangs? That's what they would look at it as because they see the person as identified with or reduced to his evils. But like I was saying, I could literally coming out of mass and like someone who practices Voodoo that we all know is a father having a really bad day. Can I get a, do you think I can get it back? I know I can't receive communion, but do you think I can get a blessing? I will can't receive communion, but do you think I can get a blessing? I will always bless that person.

I didn't bless the sin. So what is a voodoo practitioner? It is a person who practices voodoo. So there are two parts of the definition, person and then everything else. So I said to myself, well, the best way I could interpret this is what is a couple?

Say a couple is two, or what is a same-sex couple? A same-sex couple is two people who are in a homosexual relationship. And I said, okay, so the first part is the two persons, the second part is the inordinate or disordered relationship. Okay, can I distinguish that in my intent? I'm blessing the two people. I am the blessing this disordered thing The voodoo doctor is a person who practices voodoo professionally I don't want to bless the practice, but can I bless the person so that's how I worked it out Intellectually make sense to me. Yeah. Yeah, and and I try to help people with that that even though I still think yeah

I think the problem was that couple and union are used and thought of synonymously, even if you want to say they aren't. That's how people usually interpret them. True. So it was extraordinarily confusing. Correct. But again, if I'm going to be as harmonious as possible with the tradition, I can't make them identifiable, especially because it specifically says this is not what we're doing.

That's right. We cannot do this. You know what I mean? Yeah. So and then he came out yet again in that 60 Minutes interview and made it crystal clear. And exactly. So I was like, OK, said some words about seminarians, which is interesting. That's like, what is happening? Thursday texted me. I was in Australia. He's like, the Pope just said this.

I know he clearly didn't. And then they apologize. Oh, they apologize. And then when they apologize, I was like, fair enough. But if you had have apologized for other things, I'd be more OK with. And then he says it again. So, oh, I was going to say that not everyone knows we can bless a homosexual person who's in a relationship. There's a brother priest of mine.

Oh yeah, now yeah, put up, share that comment with me Thursday so we can check it. Oh my gosh. If you find it. Yeah, well you're... So what I was gonna say is... Not everybody knew you could bless, is that right? No, no, certainly not. In fact, there's a priest who in his sermon or homily or maybe after mass, in his church, and this was videotaped, and he basically says, those people in the Vatican are telling me to bring this, you know, like crap to our place here.

No, no, no, not Father so-and-so. In fact, if those two people, I think he calls them asses, if two men who are in a homosexual relationship, he calls them, if these asses two men who are in a homosexual relationship, because if these asses come to me and I swear a blessing, I'll take out the stick and beat them with it. And then he goes, and two women, what do I call them? Hmm, he calls them dogs. And then he says, and what can I do to them?

And people were clapping because they thought, oh yeah, see, that's the right response. We don't bless those people. So not everyone knows one. On the other hand,'s the right response. We don't bless those people. So not everyone knows. One, on the other hand, I almost feel, and I don't know this, that because of what was happening on the other side of the world,

the opposite of Haiti, right, in Africa, is that Germany, Belgium, and all those, they wanted to go so far, it's as if they were like, okay, why don't we throw this bone to them, use this language, and to show, and then to be able to say that's as far as you can go, but you can't go anymore, and then we can clarify for people, blah, blah, blah. I don't know. But also what I realized, bro, is this. I see what is right in front of me. I cannot see the whole. I'm responsible for the little bit that I'm responsible for. That's what

I was saying earlier. I'm not the Pope. I can't be the Pope. I can't imagine how much the Pope has to deal with and all that he's taken into consideration when he, when something has decided like, there's so much that we are not privy to and probably could not be privy to. And so I hold a little bit of charity there for that as well, to be like, okay, at the same time, being able to privately battle with certain things that I'm hearing and trying to work it out, calling people, like if I have a Jimmy Akin or somebody like that, my bishop, again, trying to most charitably. And it might come to a point where I'm like, okay, I still can't square this with that,

but I'm still not going to dissent. Why? Because if I dissent to this particular magisterial act, how can I be consistent in the future when another dissents against another magisterial act and it seems to be weakening the magisterium? Now we can always say those in the magisterium themselves can be weakening the Magisterium, fair enough, but I'm not going to participate in that. I want to bolster the Magisterium because I'm not in it. I'm an assistant to the Magisterium as a priest. I'm not a bishop and I don't have that role. And so that's why I'm like, okay, we really got to be careful to make sure we are not undermining the Magisterium because that's what the Lord gives

us and let us pray for my conversion, for the conversion of all those in power who are in bigger positions and because if they're corrupt then they're really messing up God's people and they're going to go to judgment. We need to pray for their souls and that they can lead well the people of God. Amen. All right, so here's the quote, chatting is something for women. We have trousers. We have to say things. And then I don't know if you saw this, you know who the Babylon Bee is, of course. Yes, yes, yes. So after this came out from Francis, the first time he said this word, which we won't repeat here, and then there was an apology that came out. Right. There was this amazing Babylon B.

Let's see if you think it's funny. Pope, I apologize for using an offensive slur to refer to flaming homo Nancy boys. Yeah, which still may not be as offensive as what he said. But what you just shared there about that priest saying that it is that like hard pendulum swing. Right. And it's like and the reason people are clapping is because they see sin being promoted,

being looked at sympathetically. Right. And we know that and we're so sick of seeing that happen. Correct. So I'm not even going to bless someone. People are clapping. I don't think I hope they're not clapping because of what the pre said. I think what they might be clapping for is take a stand on this issue. Let's stop pussyfooting around. I wish that's what it was. but I unfortunately think it's the former. I mean, how awful. We've had to talk people off the fact that they say, if I ever meet somebody like them in the street, I'll beat them up. What are you talking about? No, the person is like, no, but what if they come and kiss me? First of all, look at you. No one's going to kiss you, dude. I mean, we're fine. But although I think the African bishop did something clever.

Yeah, like all of them, they talk and they're very good. We're like, excuse me, Mr. Holy Father. Yeah. You know how we love and respect you and everything? Totally respect the Magisterium. Yeah, we'll never obey. We'll never dissent. Can we have a dispensation? Well, that's what my bishop did. The Ukrainian church. We're like, we're not doing this.

We're not doing this at all. Wait, are you Ukrainian right now? Shut down. So there's like, there's no there's no and why? Well, because in the east, we have this understanding of blessing. And so we can't do this. But again, it was said with like drooping with respect, right? Respect for the office, of course. Indeed, indeed. And again, that's one way to be like, okay, I don't know how to square this, but I will let undermine the magisterium. Send them with the African bishops. We're not going to undermine Peter because only Peter is Peter, and we're going to be in communion with Peter. But also, we have this huge cultural background that could easily throw things off. We could lose people who wouldn't be able to take the time to do the nuances. People are gonna think, you guys are just making stuff up, oh yeah

the person, not the unit, Polly, how do you differentiate between that? Then you gotta go into intentions and everything like that. And by the way, I do think that we are definitely, we have a theology that makes distinctions and nuances all the time. Like with the abortion question, like when you talk, like for example, annulments, people think it's Catholic divorce, but you got to go into the distinction that many people will still go, oh please, just call it Catholic divorce. Some people just can't get the nuances. Another one with the abortion thing and ectopic pregnancy that can be operated upon in which you foresee the death of the feeders, but you do not intend the death of the feeders. Other people are like, oh, potato, potato, tomato,

tomato. They're like, please, if you have to make these little decisions, then you know it's false. And the same thing. Good point. That's a really good analogy, yeah. And there's so much like that in the faith. And so we have to be able to make distinctions and charitably make them. And so that's why there was, I remember, I'm not going to name him, but a priest was commenting on this when this first came out.

And I didn't like how he did it, like, in some way, I didn't hear about those distinctions about blessings. I was like, well, correct, that's why this came out, is to help you make that kind of distinction. Both felt like blessing, vertical, horizontal, ascending descending. Oh, okay, that's nice. And had Jesus' blessing to all of humanity, even though all sinners. Okay, I can see. There's good things we can get there. I also think, by the way, that there's some other good stuff that we immediately throw away because Francis said it. Like the joy of the gospel.

That could be revolutionary. But I think Francis wrote it. So, yeah, Christos Vivit. Oh, my gosh, Christos Vivit. Such a queer presentation of the gospel, especially to youth. It could be revolutionary. But again, Francis said- Here's another example.

He did an interview on Hulu. Was it Hulu Thursday? Oh, like H-U-L-U, that huge network? Oh, wow. And so when this was advertised, I was terrified. I was like, all right, I'm terrified either because Pope Francis is gonna say something he shouldn't, and to give him the bit over the top,

we'll just say accidentally, or else Hulu is not gonna want whatever he says. Why on give him the bit over the top, we'll just say accidentally or else Hulu is not gonna want whatever he says, why on his platform are they gonna cut it up to make it seem it, right? He did a great job. Really good job. Is that recent? Yeah, like last year maybe. Wow.

Anyway, maybe you'll find out what it's called Thursday. Yeah, I'd love to check it out. These young people, you know, I think some of them looked at least, you know, same sex attracted relationships, all sorts of people. And they asked him about abortion. He uses hit hit men. Oh, yeah, I'll get to that. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, so he did it. And my point is this. Yeah. It was crickets in conservative Catholic YouTube. Yeah. Whereas if he had a misspoke, we would have milked that baby for months. You know, he's like, he did a good job. Well, we could have come out when he did a good job.

Yes. Yeah. The Pope answers. It's called. Yeah, that's true. The other thing I'm realizing, so my fear that I had the whole undermining the magisterium thing, we see it being played out in like the Vigano. There's a couple of other guys writing online basically, like if you can't find a TLM, don't even go to a liberal sort of mass. Excuse me. Yeah. So that's mortal sin. That's more of a sin. I, I, you can't, How about we embrace all of Catholicism, the TLM, the so-called novus ordo, the ordinary

form of the mass, the Ukrainian right form of the mass, the Byzantine right of the... Like can we have all this? One thing I love is like in Haiti, for example, in my parish, whenever they have time for all that stuff, like we got all the problems to think about, but at the same time, we can just be Catholic. So one of my patronal feasts, we did a mass, all the parts were the mass of the angels, all Latin, and these poor Haitian people, they learned the Latin, they chanted it beautifully, gorgeously in four parts, and we all loved it. Another day, we did a mass all

in Creole, which is the local language, we loved it because the Eucharist is being celebrated in both, and that's what makes us Catholic, and we can embrace it all. We can embrace it all, period. Well, the other thing I think happens, though, is if you permit the Latin Mass without putting a kibosh on it, then there's like a natural progression, probably back to that reverence. I think the opposite is going to happen when you when you try to suppress it. Anyway, that's another one of my. Yes. Okay. So and that might be that's a prudential judgment kind of thing. Yeah. And people can can can differ and disagree on it as to what is the most practical thing to do.

Maybe this is it. Yes, we can disagree without going nuclear. Yes, yes, I have this feeling it feels like the world's pulling apart all the groups, not just Catholics. I mean, we think Catholics because we live in Catholic land. Right, right. So people in Jew land, they're coming apart. I knew Thursday was going to laugh at that. You know, Muslims are kind of

coming apart. Think of think of American conservative movement. That's coming apart. Now you're to pick a side. So here's my thing. I wonder, like, I know that sometimes our Holy Father doesn't do himself any favors in this

regard. But I wonder if Benedict was at the helm right now in full vigor. I wonder if this was going to happen anyway. Mm. Right, right. Just because of the state of things that there was going to be this pulling apart. It could. Maybe it wouldn't be as fast. Yeah, it wouldn't have been as fast.

But it could because the big, what is that, the root, for example, of leading someone like Vigano away is not Paul Francis. It's not the papacy. There is something that's further down, which is that I'm actually okay with being in schism with Peter. Like, the fact that that exists as a card that you could pull at some point should never be there.

It should never be there. Like I will die defending the church, defending the Holy Father, qua Holy Father. Not everything he says. You know what I mean? Not everything. Just play Pascal's Wager here. Right. Right.

Like if you defend the Holy Father where he doesn't, you know, when it's appropriate, and you're wrong. Right. Right. Like if you defend the Holy Father where he doesn't, you know, when it's appropriate and you're wrong. Right. Okay. Well now you accuse him and you even say he's not the Holy Father and you're wrong and you have any kind of platform and you're out there spurting this stuff. Bro. And it's, and it's like, so where do you tell those people to go? To you because you know better because to go? To you? Because you know better? Because you've studied, you know, you got a doctorate in theology or philosophy or something. So you now are the ones that, you're the leading voice. Are you sure you could take that responsibility of

leading the flock? When Jesus said, feed my sheep, you think he was talking to you? I don't want that responsibility. Crazy times. And so, you know, there'll be people who might say to us, hey, you shouldn't have talked about that. You should have stuck to the beauty of the church or something, but I think we have to talk about this because people aren't stupid. People can chew gum and walk at the same time.

And you've got people who are looking at the Catholic church and they're like, no, no, nothing to see here. Everything is fine. Please come. Things are clearly on fire because I'm seeing things. We have to talk about them. Obradovich I agree. And I think this was a very helpful conversation. I think we're able to, there are some things we're able to go off each other and come into new understandings in charity. Yeah, here's something I struggle with. I was reading a saint recently who was talking about detraction and slander as confessing someone else's sins. Well, that would be detraction, I suppose.

Right? Detraction is the truth. Someone's revealing exactly what you should be revealing. But that's really interesting, right? Because we all know you shouldn't confess somebody else's sense, right? Don't do that Yeah, but when we detract that's exactly what I'm doing I'm confessing somebody else's sense and I've been thinking about that a lot more with my role with this microphone here Yes

And I I hope I'll be held accountable I've gone to confession a couple of times because I've let slip some real kind of Critical words about a particular person. Sure. Sure. I'm like, yeah as soon as I did I'm like I shouldn't have done that But here's the thing at the same time It's not like we're dealing with little individuals and we're just a try. This guy has a megaphone. Yes. So now what do I do? Right, that's what I don't know. I continually struggle with that. Well, something like that, I suppose. We just, we just, I guess what we said about Vigano was what's just been

declared. But even before it was declared, if you're saying Pope Francis, it seems like, well, you could be able to call that out for the sake of the church, shouldn't you? But isn't that confessing somebody else's sins? Like, what's the difference? So detraction is not just saying something that the other person did when there is no good reason to. That's it. That's detraction. The catechism defines it well when there's no good reason of charity to reveal that. There are times it might be necessary to

warn and to correct where at that point it's not detraction anymore. It's actually doing a charitable work, but of course we can all convince ourselves, I'm just doing this for the sake of love. We just need to check ourselves, but it's not necessarily detraction. So that's one. The second thing is this, as much as possible, if we can reach out to the person and be like, hey, what do you think of this, this and that?

Like, can we correct this? Oh my gosh, thank you for that correction. That's the best thing. But if that cannot be done, and then you feel like, okay, I think people need help understanding that, like some awful statement was made, like let's say somebody said Pope Francis is not the Pope. Like, okay, I can try to call the person and talk about it, but he didn't listen to me, I should correct this to my audience who might be wondering about this, like, no, he's actually the Pope, and here's why. Because so-and-so said it, you're not detracting, you're doing an act of service at that point. That's a really good distinction, by the way, thank you for helping me understand that. The detraction isn't just saying right

Unfortunate or simple things someone's done. It's unnecessarily correct But you're also right that it's so easy for us to like pretend that hey love doesn't mean like syrupy sweet And I'm telling like it is so this is love and all the whole thing like it is line for goodness sake Such a cover-up repent. Yeah Such a cover. We should yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Such a cover up. We should, yeah, we should treat talking about other people's failures the same way that we treat anger. You know, like people say, well, Jesus got angry. He's like, yeah,

but if you try it, you probably won't do it as well. Like anger is a legitimate emotion. It's easy to set right. That's amazing. But I mean, how many times do you try to do that and you realize emotion gets in the way and you actually act irrationally? It's the same thing here when we seek to, I think, pull other people, do you think? I think so. 100%. That reminds me too that I want to pray for Vigano.

Because we mentioned him, I think we have a responsibility to pray for him. Also, for James White. I mentioned his name, but I think it wasn't the best light. And so I love him. I want to say I love him too. And he's my brother too. He's also a brother in Christ. As much as he probably won't like that, or probably won't think the same of us,

but he's still a human person. And I want to see the humanity in him and the love. I also feel like he's probably someone who's been wounded greatly. There's something in there that I think is huge huge deep wound. So Lord, our dear brother, Archbishop Vigano, we offer him to you in his suffering and his pains. We offer up to you those who are with him, who support him. We ask, oh Lord, that you bring healing, the healing balm of truth in charity. We ask that you bless our

brother and bring him back to the fold, connect him with your church in competro sub petro, with Peter under Peter, to be united. We also pray for our dear brother James White that his health may be maintained, O Lord, that his mind may be blessed, his heart may be blessed, and that his faith may be rectified, may be strengthened, O Lord, in you, that he may always have peace in you, that of which he speaks so much. We

pray oh Lord for all who are in the church. We pray for greater unity to be applied in our souls. Those of us who have responsibility to lead others that we may always lead them to you Jesus Christ in communion with our Holy Father. We pray for the Magisterium for for all those in leadership, O Lord, let your Spirit come upon them, that they may all be led to the glory of God and to the salvation of souls. Bless your church, Lord. Do not let the enemy be more united than we are, but help us be united in love and truth to Christ our Lord. And we ask our lady, our sweet mother, to enter seed for us and for Holy Mother Church with the protection of St. Joseph and of St. Michael. Hail Mary,

full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. St. Thomas Aquinas. Pray for us. Good Cardinal Pell. Pray for us.

Pray for us, seriously. Amen. What a beautiful man. Yeah. Any final thoughts before we- Yes, the final thought is this. I love Catholicism because I love the Lord and I want the fullness of the Lord.

And I really feel like Catholicism facilitates the full communion and the full reception of the totality of Jesus. Catholicism makes you more human because it helps repair your humanity, perfect it and elevate it for theosis, divinization, through the sacraments and the Word. Now, we just asked these other brothers and sisters to pray for us. How freaking awesome! Check this out!

I feel bad for my Protestant brothers and sisters who don't realize the fullness of the communion of saints, bad for my Protestant brothers and sisters who don't realize the fullness of the Communion of Saints. Right. Because I feel like they've received Jesus partly, partially, not fully. They don't receive the whole body like, guys, you could have so much. What I also don't understand is that my Protestant brothers and sisters love to quote Matthew 27. When Jesus died, the curtain in the temple was ripped open to manifest the access that we have to God directly, right? But Hebrews 12 tells us God doesn't come alone.

We have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, with myriads of angels around the throne, and also with the souls of the just made perfect. Hebrews 12, 23. We have come. So the heavenly Jerusalem has come down. We are already united with the heavenly Jerusalem in the communion of saints, not only with the brothers and sisters here on earth,

but with those in heaven. The curtain has been opened, guys. Heaven is accessible to us, and all those in heaven is accessible to us. And just like Ephesians chapter one, I believe it's verse 25, the last verse tells us that the fullness of the body, the fullness of Christ is the body which is His church. The fullness of Christ is His body which

is the church. This is a verbatim quote. If that's the fullness of the body, then we ought to receive the whole body in all of His glory and not reject. Don't reject Mary, don't reject Aquinas, don't reject those that God has given you access to. I've died for this access. Why do you reject that? So I don't get it, and I pray for that, that we can consummate that totality, that total communion with the Lord and with one another here on earth.

And one final part of encouragement is to realize that we are one part of the church. We have the church militant, the church suffering, the church triumphant, and the church triumphant is the largest part of the church. So we're just this one little bit here that we're on our way to victory. Yes, we all know that we're gonna have that communion in heaven, and this is like, you can anticipate that now guys, like that's why I've come. There was indeed like a huge separation in the past, right before the death of Jesus, before heaven was opened. And so you'll see Ecclesiastes

will talk about, will describe things as they appear phenomenologically. Like it looks like with the dead people they know nothing, And people will quote that, but they don't realize that ecclesiastical is actually not to be taken that way. It's phenomenological because it also describes things like, you know what? You know what? Vanity, vanity, all is vanity. Everything is the same. Just eat, live is like – exactly.

It's describing how things would appear if they were under God. And so, in the Old Testament, things were a bit like, it wasn't as clear, but Jesus has come to unite heaven and earth. And in the church, we have that. And all my brothers are going to experience what we're already experiencing now. Just like our Jewish brothers and sisters, you know, when Jesus comes back, like, oh oh there he is! It's like, I wish that you could have begun to experience him even now, the Messiah has come kind of thing, anyway. Glory to Jesus Christ. Amen. That went forever. I'm glad you're a priest. Thank you. And I'm glad you're married. And I love you, brother. Thank you. Love you, too. Thanks for your work, bro.