Pints With Aquinas - How Islam Led Me Back to Christ w/ Charbel Raish

Episode Date: July 25, 2022

Support us on Locals, get a TON in return: https://mattfradd.locals.com/support Hallow: https://hallow.com/mattfradd Exodus 90: https://exodus90.com/matt-home/ Charbel's Apostolate: https://www.parousiamedia.com  Charbel's Fascinating New Book: https://www.amazon.com/How-Islam-Led-Back-Christ/dp/064819843X Christian Marketing Solutions: https://cmsunlimited.com What Aquinas has to say on Muhammad: https://pintswithaquinas.com/muhammad-was-a-false-prophet-w-david-wood/ AFL, if you're interested (Australian Football): https://www.afl.com.au Trent's Book "Why We're Catholic": https://www.amazon.com/Why-Were-Catholic-Reasons-Faith/dp/1683570243

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We are live right now. With Charbel. G'day. G'day. First, I don't know, is this the first time I've had an Aussie on my show? I don't know why you'd know. I haven't watched every single show, but I don't know, possibly, I'm sorry. Yeah, I've got to catch up.

Yeah, I don't know actually, if there's ever been an Australian on the show. You don't remember Neil, do you? I mean, I've been on the show. I feel like, can't show? You don't remember Neil, do you? I mean, I've been on the show. I feel like, I can't remember. I don't know. There was a priest that was from Australia. It's great. Whenever I'm around.

Bishop Strickland. Oh, that's true. His mother was a half Aussie. I think his mother was an Aussie. From the same suburb as where I grew up. Was he? Yeah. What do you mean, was he?

Was he? Do you know what that is? 12 man? Don't matter. Yeah, I know. What do you mean was he? Was he? Do you know what that is? 12 man? Doesn't matter. Yeah, whenever I'm around Australians, I realize how non Australian I sound. Yeah. Do you notice that about me when I speak like that?

It's a bit what happened like Matthew Kelly's accent. It's this warped accent. It's a merger of this American. Is that what I have? No, you're still more Aussie than American, but it's not 100% pure. Yeah. I'm going to get back to it yeah, my theory is that you come over to America you first enjoy the The attention you get from your accent from the ladies at the checkout counter things like that

But then you get tired of being misunderstood and so you start kind of Giving you words more clearly giving in. That's right. But so maybe by the end of this episode I'm gonna sound super Australian again, and you have brought Australian lollies. Yeah, absolutely some favorites here minties. Minties. Minties have these famous cartoons on them moments like these you need. Minties, yes. Cherry ripe of course. Oh, that's one of my favorites. I got caramel koalas. Yep good. And Tim Tams. Tim Tams and Tim Tams. And then Violet Crumble, if no one knows about that. This is the greatest chocolate.

Did you have one yet? Wasn't it good? It was unreal. Why is it that American chocolate sucks so badly? I don't wanna offend anyone, so I can't go there. It's terrible. I'm glad I live in America. I would rather live here, honestly, than in Australia.

So there you go, I like your country more, but your chocolate sucks. Yeah, we have to and can I throw one more thing out there? The coffee you know, I the coffee here. It's different, you know, Australia we become coffee snubs now So that's right. You get an expresso and then you have Full milk right? Yeah. So if you have a latte or cappuccino, it's like it's as good as Italy now Yeah, you know every coffee every cafe. So we don't have those sort of pots. Yeah, they if you have a latte or cappuccino, it's like it's as good as Italy now. Yeah, you know every coffee coffee So we don't have those sort of pots. Yeah, they sit there all day. How old are you? I'm 40. I'm 39 Just a couple of days ago. Yeah, I'll be 41 3rd of August so we probably have a similar experience of growing up

I don't know what it's like in Sydney that we grew up Sydney. Yep. So I was born in Sydney grew up in South Australia Okay, my dad was in the Navy so they were from South Australia, but I was born in Sydney Grubb in South Australia. Oh, OK. My dad was in the Navy. So they were from South Australia, but that was stationed in Sydney. So they live in there. I was born in. Eastwood. Eastwood, yeah, you know, that's not too far from where I live now. And but anyway, I grew up and coffee. The only coffee we have is instant coffee. Was that like that in Sydney? Yeah, that's right.

And in the 80s and even early 90s, it was all wasn't good. I think tea was still strong I think we had that British influence but then by the 2000s it started to come in and cafe culture. Victoria sort of led the way in Melbourne they perfected it. Yep. Then Sydney followed and now I think everywhere you go you can get a fresh freshly brewed espresso. Yeah it yeah, it's good. It's funny my mate Todd Visited me from Canada and he just wanted a drip coffee, you know, like we have an American here I just need a coffee but all you can get there is like espresso and they add hot water Yeah, do they call it Americanos in Australia? There are Americanos. Yeah, they call that. Yeah. Yeah

Yeah, I heard that they were called Americanos because the Americans kept wanting drip coffee in Italy. And so it was kind of like espresso and hot water for the Americans. We have the flat white as well, which is basically a latte without the froth on the top. Okay. It's just the same thing. So a flat white, a latte and a cappuccino

are made the same, they're just finished off differently. Okay. So you love your coffee? Yeah, I do. I have a couple a day. Yeah. Couple, that. Yeah. I did have like a amateur. Yeah. I had about four a day. It's weird when I was, I used to teach in PE, PE, PE, PE, PE, PHYSED as they call it here. And I never drank coffee. But then when I, when I went into religion and started teaching religion wearing a suit and a tie yeah and being in the office I just started

with tea and then instant coffee and then eventually yeah the rest is history I've become a regular so what do you drink if you go to a flat white flat well yeah I like a flat white I just need mine black so black thing if I get a cup of coffee and I can see the cup through the top of the layer of coffee the black coffee I'm sad like it needs to be you have to have the Turkish coffee that's what I drink Turkish coffee you help me that yeah yeah that's pretty good stuff Turkish coffee or that Italian stove top yeah percolator yeah that too. Yeah, that's that's proven good. Yeah pints with Aquinas everybody

Deep stuff the content you've come for So what are you doing in the States? I've come to join Deacon Harold actually at the Catholic marketing network We're gonna launch a new software really Christian marketing solution. So yeah CMS unlimited comm it's a platform to help Influences grow their audience and says unlimited email and limited social media posts unlimited landing pages Wow Marketing campaigns, it's very it's dummy proof so to speak. So there's no bells and whistles it's very simple, but it should be simple enough for a priest or a Youth worker to just be able to pick it up and run with. So we're launching on Monday.

Okay. Yeah. So when you say social media posts, who's doing the social media posts? Well anyone, it's dummy proof so it's got templates in there. You can just basically swap out the images and it will auto post to whatever page you are a manager of. So if you have multiple Facebook pages, it'll auto, a bit like Hootsuite, and then Twitter, Instagram, WhatsApp, text messaging, it's all in the same portal. So it's quite...

You've created this software? Yeah, it was actually white labeled. So this Jewish owner, done it. It's a great guy, Jared, and about 30,000 businesses used it. And then Kelly, I'm so sorry, Kelly, I don't know your last name, but Kelly had this idea to white label it for Catholics or Christians, and then, and didn't really launch it at its peak. I think the pandemic started at the time. And then De Howard got involved and then Deakin has now taken on and we've partnered with him. And yeah, so it's basically an out of the box marketing tool.

Cool. So get ready. And the great thing is Deakin Harold owns the code. And so you're not gonna be canceled. Wow. And it's gonna be constantly being developed with investors in spending money to develop. Cool.

This is the first time I've hearing about it. So what's the URL? What's the? CMSunlimited.com. Fantastic. Because it's unlimited email addresses, unlimited database, unlimited tagging, unlimited social media posts, emails, all that. So check it out.

I might just look into that, Neil. Yeah. Oh, the link's already in the description. Oh, nice. Look at that. Oh, that's fantastic Are you giving your are you talking in the States? So you I was on Catholic answers Focus yesterday in San Diego with sigh and and then just a little segment promoting a pilgrimage coming up with Tim Staples On Catholic answers live yesterday. So I was with Carlo bruce odd

Yeah, and I stayed at the theples place yesterday which was nice and then in LA with Ruben Casada the author of the book For Greater Glory, he was a companion to the movie For Greater Glory. He's an expert in that whole Christiata war and he was our first international speaker in Australia this year. We had our first international event in three years and he was and he kickstarted it which is great. So you run an apostolate called a perusia media That's right, and real quickly. What's that? It's basically a Catholic Evangelization of faith formation apostolate. So think of your old

St. Joseph Lighthouse Catholic Media Gus an Institute Catholic answers Ascension press, you know All those guys Ignatius press rolled in one with the podcasting and blogging and all that and events So yeah, love it. Yeah. The first time I heard of you was when I was working at Catholic Answers. So you were there on Gillespie Way. So you used to work there. Yes. And you would hire or you would get speakers from America to come down. And that's right. Yeah.

So you're still doing that? Still doing it. I mean, during the lockdown, that stopped completely. But this year, we're back again. So we're planning to get out. You said you had that fellow in Kazada what was that like after lockdown? So it was so good We had a fundraiser dinner and it was that a in the Olympic Park. So we're in Sydney Homebush Bay where the 2000 Olympics were so there's a formal

Restaurant there and it was beautiful Waterview 350 people or so were there, packed out. And we couldn't get people to sit down and quiet because they just wanted to mingle. They just wanted to chat. Because it was almost like releasing everyone out of the cage. And we just, the night was more about meeting each other

than anything else. And then it was a celebration, I think. And we were able to just promote what we did in the pandemic. Because funny enough, as tough as it was God blessed ministry in other ways. So yeah, I'll explain that at some point But yeah, we're here and now we can finally open up face to face and yeah, I can't wait to bring on more So October we're gonna have Tim Staples come down under and Deacon Harold as well

So we're excited about and do you find that having Americans give these presentations is that a is that a hindrance to them in some way or do you find it magnifies the message even more? It does help. A prophet's not a prophet in his own home as we've heard. Which is why I've never been there. But it's weird when a guest comes there this urgency like, they're only here for a week, let's get out there and see them. And the American approach is quite dynamic, it's quite engaging. Yeah, and I think finding the key speakers, it's not just any American, it's those who can communicate the message really effectively. You know, they're a little bit entertaining, they can engage with different age groups, they're a little bit entertaining, they can

engage with different age groups, they're faithful, I mean they've got to be faithful to the Magisterium, and they're just cool to be around, you know, so they're just normal, outgoing Catholics. Tim Staples is just a firecracker. Absolutely. Because he did my interview for Catholic Answers, and so I met him for the first time having listened to him on Catholic answers live and listening and watching his debates And I met him and I thought there's no way this guy's like this all the time. Like it's just it's too intense

It's too passionate, but he was I was there for three years and he was like that every day. Just he doesn't let anything slip I mean he's Ray razor sharp when he come here. He'll just pick any heresy out and you know, it just deals with it It's just amazing. This is got a great heart. He kick-started our live events with Peruzia in Australia in 2009 He came out and that that really set us up With events and that's how we got our reputation. Thanks to Tim kick-starting that back then what? Like I think there's different different parts in America call for different types of apologetics, you know, in some places kind of like theistic apologetics would be more called for maybe evangelizing say Muslims or whatever, atheist Protestant. But what's it like in Australia?

Well, it's a, I mean, so Sydney, I mean, the main hubs, it's a melting pot of all cultures, right? So in particular suburbs, so where I grew up, it would have been Muslim apologetics. But then you go say, I'm now in the Bible Belt where Hillsong is. And so then there's a lot of Protestant- They call it the Bible Belt? The Bible Belt of Northwest Sydney, that's where Hillsong is, they're in a Borkham Hills.

And the first Hillsong Church was there, and now it's a mega church. And I drive past it regularly, and I think that's a great opportunity there. But then, sadly, the census came out two weeks ago, and the nuns, the N-O-N-E-S, are now 40% of Australia. 40% of Australians have said they don't belong to any religion,

which in fact is probably, finally they've told the truth, because I think for a long time we thought that Christians were the majority and Scraped in I think it's 49% now Christians. That's a combination of all denominations, but how many of them are practicing? Mm-hmm Ten less than 10% Catholics practice. That's three Sunday Masses on a month What's the opinion on Cardinal George Pell? Right now. Mixed. Those who supported him beforehand still support him more than ever today.

He's a good friend of mine. Yeah, I love him. He's a great man of faith. A strong man. Very down to earth. A lot of people don't see this side of him. What you see in the media might be a dry man, it doesn't seem too engaging, but my goodness, with young people, he's so social and he's got a memory, he's very sharp and he'll remember your name, he'll remember events. Like he remembered, I didn't see him for so many years and he just remembered that my

wife was pregnant at the time and he blessed the baby and he knew the baby's name because we sort of let him know you know some family stories and he remembered those little details and still till today I saw him only a couple of weeks ago because he was in America yeah I heard father Jason had dinner with him a couple of weeks ago good friend of ours here in Pittsburgh yeah oh wow but yeah he came to Sydney for a clergy conference he was going to come back for the Napa Institute, which I'm going to that after the CMN. And, but he's not coming back. He's under the weather, as we say.

But those who don't like him or don't understand him, yeah, they won't forgive him. Complete travesty and injustice, what happened to him? Yeah. I'm ashamed on whoever convicted him of those bogus claims. Yeah. And if we feel sorry, it's not the claimant or the person who the victim for Cardinal pills prayed for that man. Yeah. Yeah. He's not actually the one at fault. There's one whoever behind it. It was a setup. Absolutely. Yeah, I got to I was speaking in Melbourne back when I was in Australia.

I don't know when it was two and a half years ago. Is that right, Liam? I don't know. It was like pre covid. Well, yeah, but I'm going to pray outside of his prison cell. It was an honor, you know, to be that close to him. And yeah, I met him once on an airplane. I think it was at World Youth Day 2000. Rome, I think. Yeah. Did you go there? No, no.

It was my conversion. That right? I think, yeah. Did you go there? No, no. Rome was my conversion. That's when I came to Christ. I just came back to Christ about nine months before that. Really? Wow. Yes, I feel very close. Wow, so I met him on an airplane.

Bishop Hurley wanted me to, oh, here's Cardinal Pell. Oh, g'day, you know. But that was it. I didn't know who he was. I didn't really care that much at the time, you know. But- It's old man.

He used to play in the field. Really good football. He made the selection to go to the next level. So top level, but he never went ahead, he's joined the summary instead. How do you explain Aussie Rules football to Americans? Cause Aussie Rules football is one of the greatest sports ever.

It's nonstop. Well, okay, you're from like South Australia. So I'm from New South Wales. So I'm from here, New South Wales So rugby league is a big thing. Yeah, so I'm a rugby boy. Yep, but but AFL is fun Yeah, I learned playing it in in college and so I had to do for my studies We had to you know study all the game invasion games and all that stuff and it is fun. It's non-stop It's non-stop you're constantly running. It's a circle, right? The field is a circle, not a rectangle.

And then the ball is, you know, an oval ball that bounces anyway. And you gotta run, you can't run more than 15 meters before having to bounce it. Now how do you bounce at full speed? Not a round ball, but an oval ball. So, and then the kicking, they kick like 50 meters, or is that close to 50 yards?

Yeah, right through. And that's hard, especially on the fly. Yeah, watch your feet. You're gonna find a link to AFL and put it in the description so everyone can be blessed. It's one of the greatest games ever. People find this hard to believe because I grew up in the 80s, 90s like you did,

and small town in South Australia, so we had like three channels, like ABC Channel 4, SBS came in later. But Rugby was never on the television. It was so segregated. They like rugby was big in Queensland, New South Wales, East Coast. We were rugby rugby league. Rugby league got all the media attention rugby union.

Yeah, certain areas played, although internationally rugby unions bigger. Yeah, rugby league is very popular. Yeah. Yeah. In that. I was just on my way to Africa a couple of days ago. I just got back and game of cricket was on in. Where was I? Johannesburg. Oh, wow.

There this little smoking room. Me and my mate went in, had a smoke and watched the cricket. Oh, I love cricket. Yeah. I don't like sport usually, but cricket is such a great game. And I just got to suck right back in. I didn't know the players were. It was Australia versus I forget Sri Lanka was it was a test match. But I just got sucked right back in. I didn't know who the players were. It was Australia versus, I forget Sri Lanka was it?

It was a test match, but. Yeah, well. It was fantastic. Who won? I don't know. I was there for 20 minutes. It looked like Sri Lanka was doing well, but. Just, here's a funny story.

So as you said, Aussie rules football is played on an oval. Yes. And I think in part that was because, you know, it's an adaption of Gaelic football. That's right. That's another game we got. Yeah. Awesome. So it's like Gaelic football, but like brutal and violent. And I think in part, it was meant to keep the cricketers fit in the winter months.

Right. And so for me, growing up, every large piece of grass that people would play sports on was called an oval. So if you're if you're at lunch, you know, at school, we like should go out on the oval. That's right. I guess in New South Wales, you wouldn't call it an oval, would you? If it's just still called an oval at school was called an oval. So I'm in America and I'm walking with Cameron back to her house and I walk past this schoolyard and I like I thought some bloke was out there on the oval.

And she went the what went the oval. All right. You don't call it the oval because she went the what went the oval. Oh, right You don't call it the oval because it's yeah What is it called the field? Yeah What do you call around field field? Yeah Yeah, it's it's so interesting the different things that we take for granted to like rubbish, you know a rubbish bin Yeah, that's what we call it. But no, it's a trash can. Yeah, this is these little things nappies for for diapers You know those funny

Differences sorry that footpath is a sidewalk. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. What is it? Park? They say parking lot It's a car. Oh, we say we say car park car park. Yeah, so Americans will say we I'm basically American at this point Yeah, that's right. You've got a foot in both camps. I do. Yeah, it's a weird world to Are you an American citizen? I'm a green card. Okay, but it's coming to its terminus So I think I'm gonna apply for citizenship. Okay. Yeah, and you can have the dual citizenship I don't know. Yeah, I don't care at this point I'd be happy to I mean as much as I love Australia and and very nostalgic have beautiful thoughts about it and love to go home I like my wife and kids more than Australia. So I'm happy to thoughts about it and love to go home. I like

my wife and kids more than Australia so I'm happy to live here now and we feel called here you know. Yeah well now what you're doing is great out here we watch you down under and it's fantastic the impact and so many Americans tell me like yeah this Aussie guy Matt Fred. Yeah I said yeah. I was mistaken for Matthew Kelly once. I can imagine that. I was at a church in San Diego and afterwards someone came up to me and told me what an impact I've made on their life. And I'm like, oh, thank you so much. Oh, that really means a lot to me.

And they're like, yeah, yeah. And they said something that gave it away. Cause at the time all I had done was written one book on pornography or something. And they're like, yeah, be the best version of yourself or something like that. And I'm like, oh crap, they're talking about Kelly. So I just let it slide. Walked away, took the compliment. I've never met him.

I've met him in Sydney actually twice. Yeah. So he would visit his mother who's also from the same town as Bishop Strickland's mom. So, so yeah, I've met him a couple of times and I try to reach out for him for this trip But he is off to Europe. So just missed him. But yeah, he's a good man It's way and so you said it was several months before Rome 2000 when I came to Christ that you came to Christ It's all right. Tell us about that cuz you've got a new book just came out We got a link in the description below people should check it out how Islam led me back to Christ. Were you raised a Christian? I was a

Maronite Catholic. So I was a Catholic. We did pray the rosary in the early years. We did go to mass. I did do all the sacraments, baptism, confirmation, and then the Holy Communion. But then after that, yeah, sort of drifted a bit. How old were you when you started drifting?

Literally like nine. Yeah, after, yeah, my my my father left home for a while and and so for a while he wasn't around about a year and a half and But he did come back interesting mum prayed a lot for him and in that time We did turn to the rosary did pray but then We didn't go to Sunday mass because he wasn't around he used to take us to Sunday mass before that and that stopped and then that stopped the habit and then then bit by bit, yeah just drifted and by I remember in a calf I was in a Catholic primary school and Most of the students were going to mass on Sunday and the priests would come into class and say okay

Yeah, good to see everyone at Sunday, but I was like the you know, the one that didn't go But then I went to a public school and I think God did something through that public school that reminded me and of my identity, I guess. So, um, I started to go to mass after my reversion and, and yeah, that that's an amazing experience when I rediscovered it, what I took for granted. So long. Hmm. So when you drifted away, is that when you started getting introduced to Islam?

How old were you? Not right away. So between ages of nine and 12, so the second half of primary school was elementary school. Yeah, I didn't practice my faith, just enjoyed life, played rugby league. I loved my sport. I did all that. I wasn't like a like a you know, I Trouble maker and I was just a ordinary kid, but then I went to public school

So that's when I was introduced to Islam. So this public school was Belmont Boys High It was brand the year I arrived was branded the worst school in New South Wales. It had the lowest HSC results it had the highest crimes out of any school It just hit the newspapers for the teachers the PE teachers here being lit a light on fire. What? The principal's office, the orientation day, or rocked up day one, and the principal's office was on fire. So the fire went out. So back up.

Someone lit a teacher on fire? Her hair, yeah. She had this fuzzy hair. And how did they do that? Just with a lighter. Yeah, she must have had too. And how did they do that? Just with a lighter. Yeah, she must have had too much hairspray or something. Just wet up. Yeah, yeah, poor thing. Yeah, not good. Shouldn't laugh. We shouldn't laugh. But anyway, I mean, we, it was funny at the time.

Were you there when it happened? No, I heard the story. It was another class that did it. Alright, so that's the only incident of a teacher being set on fire? Just the hair? Yeah, I mean other incidents where teachers did get, um, I mean, there was violence. So they did get hit. There were fights. There were other, other things. The office, you said the principal's office was set on fire. Okay. One of the footballers I used to play against there, he did it. Um, and, uh, and every day there was sort of something, uh, okay. In the, in the,

in the trash cans or the rubbish bin, as we call it, there's a fire. And then there's people right away, if you look at someone the wrong way, and then all of a sudden there's a fight out in the playground. And then we have this famous street, Paxton Avenue, after three o'clock, I'll see you at Paxton Avenue, that was always on.

Yeah, and I never really paid attention in class, but none of it, we just had, we had a lot of fun in school. Nothing to celebrate here, but it was, it was, it was fun, you know, loitering at shopping centers. It was not, yeah, a teenage life, but yeah, it's not, it's not something I celebrate, but it's something that I do remember distinctly, but I was around Muslim friends, basically,

and these guys were in and out of jail. They were, you know, a lot of our Polynesian friends as well were in and out of jail. They were, you know, a lot of our Polynesian friends as well were in and out of jail. Drugs, yeah, violence, womanizing, all that sort of stuff. So, yeah. So this became your kind of inner circle, is where your close friends. This is my inner circle, absolutely. And were they practicing their Muslim faith? Not at the time.

However, they, Ramadan every year comes around, a bit like our Lent, if you like, and they would take their faith seriously. And it was like man Okay, you fast all day really? Okay. Why all right? And then it was like they weren't religious at all in between Junior high middle school nothing was there it is a fun fact that during our area in our area during Ramadan the crime rate goes Down so it's an issue because in Ram I mean a Muslim would really take it seriously during that time Not just by fasting from food, but they even improve their life. They'll start to pray, commit to the five times a day prayer, try not to cause any trouble and, you know, try not to swear, all these sort of things.

They try to really improve themselves during the month of Ramadhan, which is admirable in a way, you know, that's great that they at least take it seriously during that month. in a way, you know, that's great that they at least take it seriously during during that month. OK. And so then how did you start? I don't know, getting introduced to Islam. Was it your friends or? Well, looking at me, I am Middle Eastern, so they thought I was a Muslim. So they never asked any questions right away. So I'm like, that's an Arabic term.

Peace be upon you. And I'll be like, cheers. Yeah. Hello. And then, no, I like my salam uh, cheers. Yeah. Hello. And then no, I like, oh my salam. Come on. Oh, okay. Uh, and then I, I, I did wear a crucifix and they noticed what's that around your neck. So just as a cross, uh, is that Jesus?

I said, yeah, he's on the cross. Yeah. Did he die? He didn't die on the cross. I said, yes, he did. No, he didn't. Yes, he did. Prove it Easter.

And then, and then they'll be like, have you got evidence? No, I don't. And, and bit by Prove it. Easter. And then they'll be like, have you got evidence? No, I don't. And bit by bit, they started chipping away at those little things I took for granted. So who is Jesus? I said, he's God. So God has died on the cross, according to Christians. Yeah. How can God die? Oh, I don't know. If he died, then that's the end of us. Yeah, that's true. That doesn't make sense, does it? And then they'll chip away again. Things like the Our Father. Jesus would pray the Our Father and. Yeah, that's true. That doesn't make sense, does it? And then they'll chip away again. Things like the Our Father, Jesus would pray the Our Father and they said, God can't have a son. Really? Well, their interpretation is that God sort of slept with someone in order to have a son. So he can't do that. Well, okay. Well, all right. We don't say he slept with someone, but he has a

son, a divine son. But I couldn't describe it. I was a young teenager. Then also like the resurrection, he never claimed to be God, all these things, all these and I learned bit by bit all these different accusations and arguments, even Muhammad being in the Bible, you know, the prophecy of the seal of prophets coming after Jesus and what we would call the Holy Spirit or the advocate at Pentecost, they would think that was actually Muhammad and they'll quote scripture. So how do you know so much about this Bible?

They study it, they actually do a bit of homework on how to approach Christians and it's interesting, they did that. And as they were getting more and more religious over the time, I noticed an interesting change in my friends and then they started getting a little bit more upfront about things and I was like, I didn't really want to go there. I wasn't religious, but I would listen and it was the final year of school where they invited a guest, a Sheikh Ahmed. So we say Sheikh Ahmed, so it means like a leader.

A teacher. And so he was the Imam, a Muslim Imam, and he spoke, this is a public school, not a Muslim school, but we had time of class, we were able to sit down and listen to this religious figure dressed in a white gown, had a hat on his head and a long beard, and I was amazed, looking around the auditorium and saying, oh man, all these troublemakers, all these criminals

are sitting respecting this religious man. Why do you think that was? They took their face seriously. Okay, what would I say? They were absolute fans of their faith. They took their identity as Muslims seriously. when a religious man They will take sit up and take note and respect him now We never respected any teacher let alone a religious figure so I was sort of impacted by that said Wow what does this guy have that the teachers don't have and that planted a little seed in my mind and and then over and then I was invited to the mosque and that's where he went to the next level and

Yeah, the most that guy Ahmed, he started questioning me. We sat down. It was interesting. It was a room in the Grand Mosque of Australia, in Lakemba. Some joke it's Lebkamba, but Lakemba. And there was a room up in the back. I was invited to go in and I saw these, you know, these men sitting on the floor and with butcher's paper rolled out on the floor

and they're all sharing each other's plates and they're eating. And this was during Lent of my final school year. And funny enough, I don't know why, I asked my mum that year, what, you know, Muslims have Ramadan, what do Christians have? And she said, Lent. And what do Christians do? You give up meat on Friday. Okay. And that year, funny enough, I gave up meat on Friday. This was a Friday. For no other reason than that's what Christians do you give up meat on Friday? Okay and and that year funny enough I gave up meat on Friday this was a Friday for no other reason than that's what Christians do I just I was inspired by the Muslims doing it I did

it and so I was invited to have some salad I did and then some meat and I didn't I said oh no I'm fasting but you just ate salad oh no I'm fasting for meat but that's not fasting what do you mean? Pants? Yeah that's right. Well in Islam we fast from sunrise to sunset. That's no water. And I said and you got you're eating clearly you're eating. He said that's not fasting and then right away he compared the two. He said which is better the Muslim fast or the Christian fast? Yeah. Muslim fast. Absolutely. That's hard. And then you look at my mind, one nail to you.

You look at Islam just superficially prima facie. It just looks like a far more masculine religion. It looks like you're a man. Absolutely. Here are men and women who take their faith seriously. And of course, you know, I guess it depends on what Muslims you're looking at. But I remember my wife and I were in New York City making our way back to the airport and we saw some of the airport workers all doing their prayers together. There's just something masculine about that.

It's very attractive. That's right. They're courageous. They're not afraid to practice their faith in public. Sometimes on the side of the highway, you'll see the rug go out and they're facing Mecca and they're praying and they're witnessing to their faith. And that's what inspired me. the rug go out and they're facing Mac and they're praying and they're witnessing to their faith. Mean that's what inspired me. Meanwhile, we can't we can't find time to do our prayers or we give up meat sometimes on Fridays.

And if we can and we have this sort of like the cross. Yeah. Don't let anyone see. And we have this big dispensation culture right in the church. It was like, well, it's OK. Like, well, I mean, technically, it's all these technically. So we do the bare minimum. Unlike people like Derek, he's, technically it's all these technically. So we do the bare minimum, unlike people like Derek. He's orthodox here in the studio today. So Derek, Derek's orthodox, Derek's hardcore.

And you know how to do the Trinity, right? That's right. I love it. I love the orthodox side of the cross. They're cool. I love them. But yeah, I mean, they they fast like men and we have so much to learn from them. Sorry. But yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. So that's cool. OK, so you were kind of inspired by these friends of yours to be like, all right,

mom, how do we do? We fast. And then you're this fella's like, that's not fast. And that's right. So that was the first challenge right away. I was challenged Christianity is a weaker faith right away. Yeah. We finished lunch. We sat down in the corner of this room and then he said, okay, now my nickname, now Charbel is my name, but I name, but I grew up as Charlie. And it was a common thing, a lot of Shabel's, because it's an Arabic or Syriac name specifically,

and you say it like this, Shabil, very hard, it's a tongue twister. And so in kindergarten, the teacher, my parents said, oh, Shabil is his name. Sorry, what's that? Can I just call him Charlie? So then Charlie was my name, to the point where my first tax file number and my job,

I was Charlie until my license had my birth certificate name, Shabel, but my, all my taxes and stuff, and all those forms were Charlie. So I actually literally would tell people, my name is Charlie, and that's what they knew me as. So anyway, this Muslim imam said, Charlie, how do you Christians pray? That's how we said it. I said and I started reciting the our father but halfway through we stopped and he said

So you're calling God father. I said yes that don't you have an earthly father? I said yes So he said why are you calling God father then? Because he's our father. Well, you can't have it both ways. What do you mean? Well, that's, you're putting on God human attributes. That's an insult to God. You shouldn't do that. Fair enough. Two nil to Islam. So in the back of my mind, Christianity zero, Islam two. I love my sports boards. Then he said, who taught you that prayer? Here we go again. Oh, it's Jesus. And who is Jesus? Oh he's the son of God. Oh so God has a son now. How can God have a son? I don't know. By being a father like I told you. Yeah I wish I had that answer. I didn't even have that and he says no God can't have a son. Okay three nil you know and then he said but hold on, isn't Jesus supposed to be guiding Christianity said yes, so God is talking to himself

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Does it? Yeah, for Neil to his love and then he said but don't you Christians believe in a Holy Spirit? Yeah, and don't you believe that's God as well as it yeah, so you believe in three gods. No, that's one God No, that's three. That's one three explain. And all I could do was the sign of the cross. And I couldn't go any deeper than that. That's all I could go. It's terrible. Five, nil.

And then he says, look, he went on and on. There's so many different arguments, like the crucifixion. You believe that Jesus died on the cross. He didn't die on the cross. Because if, because if he did die, and if you believe it's God, he didn't die on the cross. Because if, because if he did die,

and if you believe it's God, well then that would be the end. In Islam, he's a prophet, but we don't say he died. He was replaced, substitution. So Judas, Iscariot, replaces Jesus on the cross. I said, interesting. Out of all characters, Judas, but, so Jesus was on the cross, but he didn't die on the cross. And I didn't, I didn't, the penny didn't drop till later

on, but I said, okay, six, Neil, like they got to about 10 points to Neil. And I was like, I was, I was in this corner thinking I've got nothing. And he even noticed, he noticed like, are you going to ask me anything? I had nothing. And he said, I want to invite you to close your eyes and say in Arabic There is only one God and his prophet Muhammad in Arabic and I did it three times in front of witnesses And I opened my eyes and he said welcome brother. I said You're a Muslim. All right I just said the Shahada prayer and he gave me a towel a white gown and I went to have a shower Wow And it's way easier than our CIA. Yeah, that's right

Just boom you just witness that's like the baptism basically initiation I went and had the shower but really weird. I was nervous Have I just become a Muslim? Okay, I'm not a religious person. But now here I am. I'm gonna leave Christianity What's mom gonna say? What's it? What? Well, I mean surely she knew about your Muslim friends Oh, yeah, because I used to ask questions And she'll give me some answers, but I never remembered them and I it didn't make a hundred percent sense to me So was she concerned that you were gravitating towards Islam or was she? Grateful that you may have been going on a better track from someone who was like, you know

Not really following your Christian faith. I wonder if she did She may have been concerned. Yeah, she did warn me a few times be careful. Don't go too far, but But she did notice I was asking questions, but I wasn't a hundred percent convinced at the time But then the final year I did fast for me in lent So but none of us brother, I'm one of six boys and we all had the same upbringing But none of us were going to church at the time. None of us. And yeah, we just completely drifted. But I have to say, in that shower, I was moved to pray.

And I didn't know how to pray except for the Our Father and the Hail Mary. And so I said it in the shower while I'm washing myself. And I'm still going on the one Hail Mary, I did another Hail Mary I did ten how Mary's I did a decade of the rosary without realizing just coincidence and I finished a shower I put this white gown on and as I'm finishing the 10th how Mary I I just about to say amen and I hear a little whisper not through my ears just an inner voice not yet not yet who was that I took I took it off put my normal clothes back on. Was that our lady?

I don't know, I was addressing our lady at the time, possibly, but I came out to the main area and the Muslim man said, what's wrong? I said, look, I don't know my faith. It's not fair that I leave something I don't know. Let me investigate and I'll get back to you. I just want the truth. And he says, fair enough.

I said, pray for me. I just want the truth. He goes, all right. But I was moved to ask one question. Finally, here comes the question. He says fair enough I said pray for me I just want the truth he goes all right but I was moved to ask one question finally here comes the question he says okay anything I said in Islam a man can marry four wives how is that right in God's eyes how can you do that and he says ah good question first of all not every man can marry four wives well then who can me yeah the prophet Muhammad could uh could do 11, have 11 lives. But he said only those who can treat them equally.

So what do you mean? Well, this was the example he gave me. If you buy one house, you buy all four house. If you buy one car, you buy all four car. OK, that's it. And he said, yes, it's got to be more to it. And then he's I said, you can't love them equally. That's it. You're going to have a favorite.

You can't. And he says, well, does your mother love all her children equally? Now I'm only 18 at the time. I didn't have any theology behind me, no theology body stuff, none of that. But I knew that that was different. The love between a husband and a wife is different to the love between parents and children. I said, that's a different love. And then he said, love is love. You know, it wasn't significant that slogan at

the time, but it's become very popular today for many reasons. So in this case, love is love was used to justify polygamy. And I wasn't satisfied with that answer. And I said, hmm, one kneel to Christians or I took one off the Muslims. So yeah, so yeah, I wasn't satisfied with that answer. And I said, hmm, one kneel to Christians. Oh, I took one off the Muslims. So I wasn't satisfied. I thought, no, there's more to it than that. That's not good enough. Was this conversation immediately, as you were leaving and saying, pray for me?

That's right, that's right, all there. And then I thanked him for his time and I went and my friend. Can I just say that takes a tremendous amount of courage to do that. Cause I think, you know, I think one of the reasons people join religions or other ideologies is because of community. Like we want to be a part of something bigger than us.

We want people to call us brother like he did to you. Yes. And so for him to welcome you like that, presumably there was other people around. They were. And then you've gone, you've had this shower, you could have walked out and been embraced and you chose not to. That took courage. I have to point it to maybe that prayer, that little whisper in my ear, just not yet. So just like give Christianity a chance. Don't give up yet. Just just study it first. But I wasn't convinced about Christianity. I was convinced about Islam. It made sense to me.

And I left that thinking I'm a Muslim. I'm not a Catholic. I'm a Muslim. I'm not a Catholic. I'm not practicing. I can't call myself a Catholic. And I got home. It was late from school. And my mother said, where were you?

I said casually, just at the local mosque. And you can imagine what? She gave this huge slap across the face. Oh, that's nice. Love it. Right here. And she says, you go now to Jesus. And you ask him if he wants you to be a Muslim or Christian He's in the Quran. I said yes, so well if he's a prophet, well, he's gonna tell you the answer, right?

Yep, go and I love your mom already. Yeah, she's awesome things. I know about it. She slapped you and and that's it. Yeah She is a Jesus to her because I was a man slap a life would have been different Her name is Yvette. So I love you mom. To my mother Yvette. That's right. Raish, is that how I say your last name? That's right. Thanks for laying the foundations of faith in my life and giving me that slap in the face.

I needed it. I needed it, absolutely. So I went to the local church, St. Michael's Belford was my primary school, and this was one of the very few churches in the country that remained open 24 hours. So thank God, it's six o'clock at night, it's open. And I walk in and there's the red light on.

And I remember in primary school, the teacher told us that when that red light's on, Jesus is present. I said, okay, all right, Jesus, if you're really here, show me. And then I asked, I kneeled and I it was the first time I really Directed a question to God or took to Jesus from my heart wanting an answer I think I gave him lip service all my life our fathers how mes rattle a muff and I didn't really connect But this time I was I was looking at that box the tabernacle the box I didn't know was a tabernacle that all right if you're really he showed me Do you want me to be a Muslim or a Christian?

And do you know what happened? Nothing. Oh. Well, that's significant because it was dead silent and I couldn't get my eyes off that box and I was waiting for a sign, waiting for a sign. And that was a miracle in the first place because during high school,

I never sat still for one minute, let alone 30 minutes. This went for, I believe around 30 minutes and I was just dead, locked on that box. I just, I don't know, I was waiting and waiting and then an elderly woman came in the church and she lit a candle and then I thought to myself she's going to heaven, what a holy woman. But then instantly a flashback to one of my discussions, only Muslims go to heaven. Why, what do I mean? I'll just explain, According to Islam, when you die, you're going to meet your judge. Everyone's going to be judged. You'll be judged on your more ticks than crosses. So if you done more deeds, you go to heaven. You done more bad deeds. If you're a Muslim, at least,

you have temporary punishment and then you'll be purified then you go to heaven but for For anyone if you die and you meet your judge, you got to answer three questions very basic stuffy. Who is god? It's allah. So um Allah is the arabic word for god. It's not the muslim god. It's just an arabic word for god But you can't say it in any other language. It has to be arabic. So if you say god Elohim deos in spanish or any of these other names, that's not good enough. it has to be Arabic. So if you say God, Elohim, Dios in Spanish or any of these other names, that's not good enough, it has to be Allah. So if you get that wrong, you go down.

Second question is who is his prophet? Of course it's not Saint John the Baptist, it's not Moses, it's not Elijah, it's not any of those, it's Muhammad. You get that wrong, you go down. And the third one is what's the true religion? And of course it's not Judaism Judaism Buddhism or Christianity. It's Islam You've got to get three out of three and if you don't get three out of three, you don't enter heaven That woman is definitely not gonna get three out of three. So she's going to hell. I can't be right. I wasn't satisfied

I wasn't convinced There's that's my second sort of moment. Oh, there's a flaw here. And I look back at the box, and I kid you not, Matt, I remember seeing an outline. I looked away, looked back. It was like a shadow of a face. I thought I was gonna cry. Look back, look away, rubbing my eyes.

About a minute solid, there's this shadow, what appeared to be a man with a beard, and then an inner voice Charbel not Charlie Charbel my baptismal name which was significant are you going to give up all that I've done for you and I believe at the time that was Christ Jesus was speaking to me there and then and my 18 years of my life flashed before me all the time that my mother tell us the rosary all the miracle stories I heard about Jesus walking on water healing the the blind the sick and all that and I had to answer that question no Lord I'm not gonna give you up and this huge weight came off my shoulders I called Jesus Lord for the

first time in my life and I could breathe I'm a Catholic I'm a Catholic I'm gonna remain a Catholic that's my answer I'm a Catholic I'm not a Muslim and now I need to know why and I walked out of that church on cloud nine and you wouldn't believe it the very next day the My best friend Ali at the time. He said hey Muslim brother. How's it feel to be a Muslim? He thought that's it. I was assigned still delivered. I said listen Ali. I don't know my faith. Don't look I was still not gonna. I said, listen Ali, I don't know my faith, don't look, I'm still not going to, I'm not a Muslim yet. If God wants me to be, He'll show me. Please pray for me. He said, absolutely. But then I asked him a question. I said, if God calls you to be a Christian, will you answer that call? He says, he's not going to

do that. And then he brushed it off and then we never spoke about this again. And other guys tried to convince me and I went to different debates and I did all that but You wouldn't believe it out of all the parishes in the country this very parish st Michael's and Belfield had what was called Lumen verum apologetics They had Friday night classes guest speakers would come and they'll teach the faith and I said I need this and I went Now it's funny because in the early years I never sat in In class like I said, I never sat in class. Like I said, I never had an attention span.

So I would fall asleep during these classes because they'll talk about the Second Vatican Council and the papal encyclical and words like transubstantiation, which I could never pronounce and let alone spell. And I would fall asleep. I said, this is over my head. You know, early church fathers and it was too much for me at the time. But there was Q and A time. And then I'd wake up from the Q and A.

When people clap and then you wake up. I have question time. How do you know God is real? How do we know that God is Trinity? How do we describe this? How can God die on the cross? Can you explain how God can have a son? Why do we go card father?

All those things, I was like a fire hose. Just I wanted to get out all that stuff that I didn't know how to answer and bit by bit Week after week, I got my answer and I'll and I was I'll go back and just yeah be convinced All right, great. It was all in the head right now. So it's just learning why Catholicism made sense Christianity made sense. It's a Trinitarian God and I get it, I get it. And I started to study and so in between the Fridays I started to listen to, here we go, a man named Scott Hahn, apparently he's from this area, he lives in this area. What year is this, 2000? 1999? 2000, yeah, I was going to the Lumenvarum apologetics, I heard of him, but but I never listened to him and it was until a retired priest friend shout out to Father Chris Father Chris Benedictine monk

Retired Benedictine monk gave me my first Scott Hahn cassette. Wow, and that cassette was called Calling Catholics to become Bible Christians. Yeah, and vice versa. I remember it clearly. I've actually got that original set No, a cassette set do not cassettes are by the way? Yeah, I do at least remember them Maybe yeah, Liam might not You know what a cassette is yeah Did you you've told Scott this no doubt? Yes, absolutely Amazing is he says he's amazed he did because he doesn't he's lost count

He doesn't know I mean he just shares his story shares the truth and God does the rest and yeah the amount of people he's impacted in this World, it's a nice. Yeah, my goodness, but that I love that Ryan No, no, not Chris right Chris. There is a father. I think I was getting a good man. Yeah, yes, that's right It's not him. It's another father Chris. Okay, but he gave you this tape set. That's right. He said listen to this I said I did and I said, oh I want more you got any more and he said what is the covenant? Which was brilliant because it talked about the Trinity Love it. I needed it. And then he gave me his conversion story. Love it. I caught a Protestant minister becomes Catholic and Not that I was really into the Protestant Catholic thing. I was looking for Islamic politics

But I just loved him so much I started to listen to Scott Hahn, Common Objections and the Lamb's Supper, the Fourth Cup, I mean all this stuff was just brilliant and I would go to work because I left school by now I started to work and I listened to a cassette on the way to work and listened to another one on the way back so I'd get two hours of teaching every day plus I'd go to the the Lumavirum apologetics and then I enrolled in a Catholic Outer Education Centre. So this was Father John Floyter, my current spiritual director. He just taught basic catechism, the creed, all the meat and potatoes of the Catholicism

and I just soaked it up, wrote notes and then I joined these philosophy classes. So actually you'll love this St. Thomas Aquinas classes, Alice Nelson, her name was, and she followed Dr. Woodbury style. So shout out to Dr. Austin Woodbury, he's passed away now, but in the heyday, he used to teach philosophy to adults. 800 people, I understand, would turn up every week

who just did it for free, and will go through Thomist philosophy. The five proves, and we will go through metaphysics eschatology theology natural natural theology philosophy all that it was beautiful and I just I did two years of this and so hang on so you're getting so what's going on with your Muslim friends as you're entering into these apologetics classes yeah so we've left school we've graduated I've now we've left school, we've graduated. I've now, we've left, we would see less and less of each other, but we would still catch up,

but not talk about religion. And I never not talk about it at least a year, two years. Now were your friends having a deepening conversion to Islam as you were? They started wearing the white gown. They started wearing the hat. They started growing their beard. They started taking it really serious. Yeah, it was funny I saw the transition in their lives, which look it's in a sense It's a beautiful thing because I left a life of crime and and they entered into this, you know Prayerful life they would pray five times a day, which was to me inspiring of getting up before sunrise

I couldn't do that and to this day I struggled to do that. But but that was inspiring, you know And and I would I would respect them for that Yeah I still had a respect for them as I was studying my faith and learning and falling in love and then I came across a Tim Staples set called Islam exposed. It was just what I needed who gave you that The same priest so father Chris what father Chris introduced me to St. Joseph communications.

The funny story there is, uh, I, I didn't know that how much I love this. And I would share this. So I was already practicing the ministry if you like, without knowing, but giving free cassettes to people to listen to this media started, it was starting out of, out of a need to share the faith. And it's funny. Uh, I couldn't contain this. I was so excited about my new found faith. It was the same faith, but my discovery of appreciation of it.

And I took all this stuff for granted. In 2001, I met another young, young man, Paul, God bless you, Paul, you know who you are. Paul Chalita. He, he was the other young person that came in my life on fire. He had a radical conversion too and then he started falling in love with our lady. Dude, we would have become best friends if we had a man in 2001. Wow. Because 2000 in August was my conversion from like agnosticism, religion stupid, it's all whatever.

Encounter the person of Jesus Christ, I would show up at parties where I used to get drunk and I'd just bring my Bible and I'd want to tell people about Christ and pray with them. My drunken friends would knock on my window at my house at two in the morning crying because they just did something stupid. We'd walk down to the church.

I had the spare key that the priest gave me. Go sit before our lady, light candles, pray the rosary. We were about the same age. It's amazing how the Lord was working. Absolutely, look at that, simultaneously. Yeah, I, I stood at that early, you know 18 19 20 I I did so I had my head I had I had a conversion here. Mm-hmm I had the encounter but I still needed to deepen my relationship. I wasn't there 100% yet I was convinced about Catholicism, but I still had more the Lord was still working on me

I still going clubbing at the time. Yeah me too. And I remember turning my scapula. That's what I do. That's right I pulled the back of the scapula down and I let it bling. I still wanted to go to the clubs I wasn't willing to leave the world, but I really wanted to make everyone feel very uncomfortable by telling them about Jesus 24-7 I Remember changing the lyrics to the songs because a lot of them provocative I'll turn them into I can't set of like a lover It would be God and I'll justify myself like sure yeah this is like praise and worship right now in the clubbing. Unfortunately it kind of similar yeah but that's right I'm just gonna have a minty while we talk here. Please enjoy. Do you want a minty anybody?

Yeah go be careful. Oh yeah just suck on it a little bit let it it melt a bit, and then you slowly, then you can chew on it a bit later. It should take a few minutes. You'll love it. Very refreshing. Oh, the caramela koala. I'll take the koala, yeah. Get ready. I'll try that again.

The caramel will ooze out. And this is made with real koala, I understand. No, no, we don't eat koala. There's a very funny joke there was a duo in Australia not Lanow and Woodley but the scared weird little guys. Okay. And they said um they were pointing out the Australian flag you guys know the Australian flag looks like. They're like and up here in the top corner we have the Reebok symbol because I guess Reebok used to use the British flag as a symbol. That's funny. They sponsor Australia and then we send them koalas to make shoes out of.

Oh my goodness. And then when everyone was like, oh, don't worry. It's only the baby ones. Oh, that's funny. It's really drunk. Hmm. Our koalas like perpetually drunk. That's what you hear.

Is that true? They sleep 20 hours a day. Yeah, they're always sleeping and they basically they're having eucalyptus leaves all the time, which is poisonous, but they got used to it over time. It's kind of badass, aren't it? Yeah, it's kind of cool. It's good for them, you know? Hanging out, eating poison.

Oh man, and surviving. They would survive. Civil disobedience. Screw you guys. I have some terrible news from Google is that koalas are not are neither drunk nor high constantly. What does it say? It says, are koalas drunk?

It's a common myth that could spread around as an explanation for why they sleep so much. We're here to debunk that myth. Koalas only eat gum leaves. That part is true, but the leaves don't cause them to get drunk or high. I think we may need a fact check. I feel like you just contradicted an Australian guest on Australian. You know we can test it now. You have to test this. Eat some eucalyptus leaves. We'll see what happens. Did you bring any? I didn't because apparently California has some. Yeah they do actually. Yeah I didn't realize. Oh my gosh this is so good. It is. It is.

Enjoy. You know when I went down to Australia, my my now wife, I visited me in Australia for the first time. I took her on this really terrific date. And one of the things we did is she got to hold a koala. And you know, people people look at koalas. I think they're super cute and cuddly. And the lady literally gave her the koala and went now, just don't touch him on the face or he'll claw you or something like that

It's like oh my gosh She was sitting there nervous the koala crapped in her hand another bad ass move from a drunken koala Doesn't give us you That's so good, so how's your mum feel on at this point when you're super into your faith and yeah, she was very Encouraging at this time time I did go to church, but I went to confession for the first time since my first confession. And the priest knew me.

He knew me from primary school. He fell off his seat in the confession. He still doesn't forgive me today. I mean, he did forgive me at the confession, but he would still bring it up like, you are just crazy. What on earth were you doing? And it was was he's a

good man i'll uh uh shout out the father slattery god bless you uh retired now but he's good i i needed him i needed someone he was a hard hitter you know those irish priests that just hit you between the eyes i needed it i needed it and he laid down the foundation but uh i would i would pray the rosary and really it was hard in the first year Even though I had the foundations. It was just you know, it's not enjoyable prayer wasn't enjoyable mass. Was it enjoyable? Um, I have to be honest here. It wasn't enjoyable and I asked my mother. Okay, you seem to like prayer Do you really like it or you just you're just sort of saying that Because I don't like it at all

And she's I know we have to pray. I know we we should pray I know we have just like vacuuming the carpet, you know, yeah, it's a chore You have to do it. You got to turn up, but I don't like it She goes why don't you ask Jesus to help you enjoy prayer? Your mom is awesome. Very simple. Okay Is she watching right now? I doubt it. She doesn't know how to use the internet. I like you. I'm even more Yeah, I went to me to wonder. Oh, yeah, please do She's she's there on the back of the DVD set faces on there. You'll see it mum's um, but I did I Jesus Here we go again Help me to enjoy prayer. This was in 2001

So two years after the conversion and I said, can you help me enjoy prayer? This is simple. I even, I don't even think I was concentrating. I just threw it out there that night. Within three weeks of that prayer, it was lent. And I made a little promise to turn up to the church on the way to work for a minute and on the way home, just to say, G'day, how are you Jesus? And go home. And I did one minute, became two minutes, became three minutes. I stumbled into daily Mass. I heard the readings, the Beatitudes were read that day and I just, wow, that impacted me. Jesus did what? He said what? Love your enemies? What? Turn the other cheek? What? Who says that? What? Who

is this God that says that? You know, if someone walks one mile with you, walk with him too, they want to take your coat, give him your shirt as well. What? Blessed are those who persecute you and violate you and speak evil of you. What? And it's like two years here I am studying and I did hear that story.

I was familiar with that story, but it never impacted me like it did that day. I need to read the Bible. Even though, and this is the weird thing, I was listening to Scott Hahn, but it was funny, I was only listening to it to win an argument. I was listening to it at the time, how do I respond to Muslims? How do I justify Christianity? And it stayed up here and it didn't go deeper. You know, Mother Teresa says, the longest journey is from the head to the heart. Is that

interesting? Just from there to there and that can take the longest and it took two years to go from there to there I was finally impacted and I said, oh, I want to come back. I came back the next day to mass I started to read the Bible cover to cover the New Testament first The little salvation army Bible at the time the little red one the good news translation. Yes, I read the same one And in the end yet look to be honest. I read it. I loved matthew um Um, and then I skipped I just skimmed through the rest just to finish it So I didn't give it the proper chance until later on but I fell in love with the beatitudes. So I just kept reading that

and then I My friend this poor paul. Shout out to paul again. He wanted to go and pray the rosary every day at people's homes. So yeah, let's do it Now I was sort of a shy person then and I never wanted to show my faith public I kept it to myself even though I would bring it up at work here and there but I was still shy I couldn't sort of speak to multiple people could speak to one-on-on-one to someone, but I couldn't do it in masses. And here this guy is just larger than life. He's going out there saying what Our Lady did for him. And that inspired me. I said, yeah, all right.

So after church, we would go to Sunday Mass back at the Maronite church, St. Charbel's. And now I'm rediscovering this Maronite heritage I had. I didn't really practice after 18 years. And after mass, we would give out rosary beads. That was it, a little flyer, how to pray the rosary. That was a little apostle that we had and let's do it. We kept finding beads and it was given him out. And then we started nightly rosary at the parish and then we, then he had the idea of starting

what was happening at Lumen Verum apologetics at this church with young adults. But instead of doing like a four hour lecture, just a half hour break at half hour just have a break have some you know some refreshments and then go again so in 2001 a group called guardians was formed and we've had many speakers come to that and it was great I met my wife there it was a faith formation night every and instead of weekly we did it fortnightly so we just tweaked the model to make it more palatable for young adults and we had 40 people there First speaker father Terrence spoke on the four last things. I remember like it was yesterday we're going back 20 years 21 years and

And I remember it 40 people turned up and I remember we had a pizza that night celebrating We yeah, we had a beer as well. All right, it's underway. And so I would go to Lumenverum, I would go to Guardians, I would do the philosophy classes, adult formation, continue listening to Scott Hahn. But now this next part of my life was pray, pray a lot. And the miracle here is in Lent, I prayed every day and it increased in time.

By the time I got to Easter Sunday, I was praying three hours a day. Now you have to just pause and remember it was the start of, just before Lent, I hated prayer. I literally hated it. So that, you can't explain that other than God's grace. What did your three hours of prayer look like? So there was a holy hour. So every night 11

o'clock to 12 o'clock at night, my mum's prayer group would pray the rosary, Stations of the Cross, Divine Mercy Chaplet, they did the Cynical, Father Gove, they'd read that, and that filled an hour. And so that was one hour. In the morning I'd go to Mass, excuse me, um, pray the rosary before Mass, read the Bible. So then there was about another hour there. And throughout the day I would, I would also go to, there'll be half hour there where I would go to Father Chris's place and then, and then we'll do Divine Office. He actually taught me the Liturgy of the Hours. He was a Benedictine monk so we prayed the Benedictine way, which was seven times a day. And he had this beautiful Psalter, the Psalms, where it was handwritten and it was just beautiful. And he had a little chapel in his house and we'd pray.

And I started to learn the Latin responses. So my exposure to Latin started with Father Chris. And he would pray the Vatican to mass, but in Latin. It was interesting. A lot of people who would witness it think, hey, that's the old right. No, it's actually the new right, but in Latin. And it was ad orientum.

He would chant the consecration in Latin. It was beautiful. And I knew how to serve that mass. And Father Fesio, God bless him, produced these little missiles that was basically the Latin responses and the English there. So I'd follow in English, but Father Chris would do it and I just fell in love.

And then EWTN, I got to see Scott Hahn for the first time. I didn't know what he looked like. And it was the Lamb Supper series with Mike Accolina and I would watch out with Father Chris. So I would pray Divine Office, Mass, Chaplet, you know, and then three rosaries a day. So the morning, the evening at someone's house and then at night with the prayer group. I loved it. I can't describe it. My friends noticed the difference and now that's where it gets fun. They said, hey Charlie, what's going on? You're

starting to pray a lot. Do you want to be a priest or something, you know and What what's come over you you become really religious? I said, you know what? I know I love God. I just love him and And he said well you have us to thank for it is my Muslim friend and I said what do you mean? He said well if we didn't challenge you you never were religious like this if we never challenged you You wouldn't be like this And he hit me like a ton of bricks. I said, you know what? You're right. Thank you Thank you very much because if it wasn't for you wouldn't have challenged I wouldn't ask the questions So every day I've thought thank God for my Muslim friends If it wasn't for them challenging me and me searching for the answers, I would have remained a lukewarm Catholic

Christmas and Easter Just tick the box because that's what Catholics do and then that's it and that would have been my life or I would have remained a Muslim if I didn't have that encounter if I didn't ask Christ so I thank God every day for the Muslim friends because that challenge really inspired me and and that same friend started to read the Bible and then he asked me hey Jesus says in the Bible he doesn't say anywhere that he's the son of God can you show me I said here we go now it's two and a half

years of formation with Scott Hahn philosophy I've just you like myself with prayer like you like revving in a dream in a garage just waiting to go somewhere just dying for anybody to ask you a question like that to hold yourself back yeah it's been two years waiting two and a half years and and so we sat down at a cafe outside of a Woolworths, you know, call it Woolworths. First job was Woolworths. There you go, there you go. I worked there too. Nice. Trolley boy. Stacking shelves. Nice. But he right away he brought his Quran. I brought my Bible. And so we open up page one at this cafe And here we are. What are we 20 not not quite 21 in our 20 just turn 20 and

And the Quran opens up with you know I love the most merciful one a praise be to Allah and and and Muhammad peace be upon him the prophet and then And then he goes on to the sayings like the different sayings of Muhammad and God speaking and it is sort of written in third person it's funny when you read the Quran it's not chronological and it sort of does it's lots and lots of different statements but there's no sort of beginning and end it's sort of sorted out some would say the largest surah to the smallest surah but but not every Quran is exactly the same. And that's another conversation.

But in the Bible, it starts in the beginning. God created the heavens and the earth. And the spirit of God hovered over the waters. And then God said, let there be light. Did you notice something? The Trinity is revealed in the Jewish scripture right there and then. God the Father created. God the Holy Spirit hovered over the waters, the Spirit of God.

And then God the Son spoke. That's Jesus Christ, the Word, let there be light. And it's like deliberately each verse is dedicated to a person of the Trinity. Isn't't it interesting not that I want to minimize the Trinity to just each Role because where the father is the son is I get I get that but the point is the Trinity is stamped right there in Genesis I wonder if the Jews took took note of that but But then the big question I had and thanks to Scott Hahn again. He asked a very profound question. What was God doing before that? Again, he asked a very profound question. What was God doing before that? You see because we call God Lord and and in Arabic you would say instead of so God in Arabic is Allah

but Lord in Arabic is a rub rub And spirit in Arabic is a rule. It's a bit like the Hebrew. Yeah, oh Anyway, so what was God doing before he created because he's not the Lord of your life if he's no wanted Lord over. He's not the creator if he hasn't created. So who is he in his essence? And I asked my Muslim friend this. He goes, nothing. What do you mean nothing? So what was Allah doing? And he said nothing. Okay, one of the names of 99 names of Allah is love. He was loving, right? Yeah, okay, who was he loving? Himself, so that's not love.

You can't love yourself. We used to have the term in Australia, I love me dude, do you remember that at all? No, sure. Maybe in my region of the love me dude. So you love yourself, you're sort of proud and you look at yourself and I love me dude. We said, you know, in Australia, but the poor, what is it? The tall poppy syndrome syndrome. Yeah. We want to, you know, anyone who stands out. That's right.

That's why Australians are continually critiquing Americans. Yeah. That's right. Um, but anyway, I, I asked him and I said, so why think about it if God is loving who is he loving from all eternity when we weren't even created? He initially warned me, he said, you can't ask that question that's forbidden. You know, that's outside the Quran. I said, when I'm asking, come on, we got to be able to ask.

And he said, I don't know. I said, okay, let's look at it this way. If God is eternal and eternally loving, let's look at it this way. God is eternal and eternally loving Let's look at it this way God loved another person an eternal person and that eternal person receives that love he goes Yeah, but that eternal person is not just gonna sit there and take it He's gonna respond to that love and so that eternal person number two is gonna return back and that return of that love is a number Three one two three one two three And that return of that love is a number three. One, two, three. One, two, three. Do you see what's going on here?

And he says, yeah, God the Father, from all eternity loved God the Son, who received the love and returned the love back to the Father as the Holy Spirit. There's three divine persons equally loving. Now here's the thing, did God need us? And he says, yes. to do what? To be slaves. Okay interesting, if God needed us for what purpose? He said to worship

him. Okay, so God needed us to worship him. Don't you think he was self-sufficient from all eternity? Well no, he needed us to share. Whoa, now you're diminishing God here. Now Allah from all eternity loved, and I just described that, he paused and when I he needed us to share whoa now you're diminishing God here now Allah from all eternity loved and I just described that he paused he said I know what he'd like that description he said look I'm gonna lose my religion he stopped he stopped me and he said what you're saying is making sense I can't go any further with that that's right can I ask you some other questions I'm now I'm on the front foot here asking questions just asking questions and I

said so if if God from all eternity create, at some point in eternity, this is the mystery here, he decided to create for what purpose? See, if Allah is the master, the all-powerful master and we are the slaves, so God needed us to do his chores for him. Was it we are we are we created to make to do jobs for God? He says yeah Really that so it was got bored was got you and I started asking like this This is I'm 20 years old and I said look if God loved think about it this way He he pours out his love and at some point. This is the thing, the covenant, what is the covenant family?

That family, that marriage, he begets children. Isn't that interesting? The consummation, if you like, the marriage, the two become one, the one becomes three, right? In the marriage imagery. And the Trinity is like a family and so he begets children. We're the children. God doesn'tgets children. We're the children God doesn't have children No, no Stay with me now is spiritually and so then we're we are now the children of God and what's our purpose? Yes to worship him. Yes to this to to serve him. Absolutely, but it's ultimately to freely love him Freely love him and if it's not free, it's not love Mmm, yeah, I get what you're saying and he took it on board then I went on to the

next thing I said you know in Islam you believe that God didn't have a son can I ask you who the father of Jesus is and then he says he has no father so how did Mary get pregnant and he said this in Arabic, Ruhat Allah, which means Spirit of God. I said, bingo, we're on the same page here. You believe with the Christians. We believe the same thing here. We're on common ground. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit.

And he says, it's not the Holy Spirit. He says, it's the Holy Spirit. It's not the Holy Spirit. We're back and forth. Come on, it's the Spirit of God. Where the Spirit of God is, that's God. So if God went into Mary, who's the father? And then, I know what you're saying.

I said, come on, say it, say it, just say it. Who's the father? And then he said, no, it's not God, it's not God. And the point was, I wanted to show that if God impregnated Mary, as they would say, then it stands to reason that if God impregnated Mary as they would say, then it stands to reason that if Mary is the mother, God must be the father. But this is what I love about Christianity.

We go one step further with Mary. She's a daughter of God the father like all of us. Nothing different. But the moment she said yes to the angel, same angel that review spoke to Muhammad angel Gabriel allegedly Allegedly, that's right. Also and and she says let it be done into me contour with that moment God The incarnation happens and the Holy Spirit would overshadow her she becomes a spouse of the Holy Spirit and Mother of God the son. Mm-hmm. I just want to repeat that because I think we miss it Mary the Theotokos She's the daughter of God the Son. I just want to repeat that because I think we miss it. Mary, the Theotokos, she's the daughter of God the Father,

spouse of God the Holy Spirit, and mother of God the Son. She radically, at that moment, is transformed into someone elevated right now. She's a human like us, a daughter like that, but now she's got this huge responsibility. He appreciated it and I said, look, all right, we're he sort of understood where we were going with it I'll move on the next thing. I'll just go one more and I know there's a lot I can go I just I just do one more here. I said you teased me in high school about Jesus

Not dying on the cross First of all, you said there was no evidence actually there's plenty of evidence But before I go there, let's quote the Quran. And I encourage people to go to this. Surah chapter 4, 157. Surah 4, 157, read it. It talks about Jesus being on the cross, or what was made to a piece. Now here's the weird thing, when you read before and after, there's no context. It's just thrown in there. And I asked my friend, so Jesus was on the cross but he didn't die he goes bingo okay so he was on the cross he said yes but he didn't die he has not Judas replaced him okay but he

was on the cross he said yes why is he on the cross and then he said well I don't know why I was on the cross. Because that's a very important point. If you agree that Jesus was on the cross, we can agree this happened in history. Now you don't agree he died on the cross. Fair enough. Fair enough. We won't go there yet.

But why was he on the cross? And he couldn't answer it. And I've asked many Muslims, why was Jesus on the cross? Now this is interesting because I think these days they're trying to Sort of explain that away by saying okay now he actually wasn't on the cross He did but but for many centuries and a lot of Muslims will say today He was on the cross and there was a substitution that happened Judas replaced him. That's one theory There is another theory that Jesus was on the cross. He didn't die

He was unconscious because three days later they saw him walking around on earth. Ah yes, very convenient resurrection. But I said what did Jesus do wrong to deserve being on the cross? He couldn't answer it. We know the answer, we know what happened. He blasphemed, he made himself equal to God and therefore was crucified for that. And so it's historical fact that a man from Nazareth, Jesus Christ, and Jews don't agree he was God, but they acknowledge a man from Nazareth died on a cross. Roman historians acknowledge that secular history proves a man named Jesus,

and BCAD, let's look at it, it's 2022, Before Jesus, after Jesus. I mean, come on. So this man existed and he was on a cross. But why? And then you can go into the C.S. Lewis, the Liar, Lunatic, or Lord. Now that you can establish that, then you can keep going. It's so fun. But the thing is, we stopped. He agreed to disagree.

Like, I don't know. He said now to me, I don't know my faith. I need to go now. He said exactly what I said to him two and a half years ago before that takes humility and praise God yeah so he's been a good friend who came to my wedding I even launched the book I've got a handful of good Muslim friends and because we're so good mates in in in high school we still hang out he I didn't invite him to the book launch and he called me up and he said why didn't you invite me?

I said I didn't think you would appreciate the title is love. Let me back to Christ and he said look I know you as a person We're mates and we it goes beyond that so good. I really Admired at least there was a mutual respect there and when people I Give talks now a lot about this and they'll ask the first question that typically happens is So isn't how do you what's how do you respond to the Muslim thing? I'm isn't aren't Muslims like terrorists or Muslims are Violent and like how do you reconcile all that and here's the distinction

we have and we do this today, and this is probably a good discussion, maybe in the second half, but I love Muslims. God loves Muslims. They are children of God. But when we talk about Islam, now we're talking about ideology. What we have to do is separate the ideology from the person.

Stop putting on Muslims this ideology. They are children of God searching for salvation like us, so that we've got to give them a chance, invite them to salvation. But what we should do is mutually respect each other's freedom, but look at the the the idea of of Islam as an ideology set in search for the truth, because we both want the truth. And that's where we can get get somewhere one-on-one not in a group I don't recommend a group setting it has to be one-on-one because

There's an element of look hurt shame and you're stepping out of the boundaries here you're asking questions outside of the Quran and You know, it's a it's a tough gig You don't you don't ask those questions are forbidden and when you start doing that, it's a bit you're tough gig. You don't you don't ask those questions. They're forbidden and when you start doing that It's a bit you're in dangerous territory. So that's why I respectfully do it And I would say praise the good in islam where in the sense that they pray Praise be to god they fast praise be to god. They they believe in a god praise be to god He's the creator the oneness of god. So all the things that are in common. We we say praise be to God. He's the creator, the oneness of God. So all the things that are in common, we say praise be to God.

But then there is a point where the rubber hits the road and there's a separation. Did he die on the cross? It's a yes or no answer. It can't be maybe. He died. And why did he die? And why? Because he claimed to be God. Is that, we have to test that claim. Is he really God? Or is he a liar or a lunatic? And that's where I love to see a slowest thing. And then you can go somewhere with it. So any differences within Islam, we need to meet that challenge, but respectfully and separating the ideology from the person. And I think you can go a long way that way. That's awesome. All right. What we're going to do is take a quick break. And when we get back, I want to begin by doing three things. We We're gonna teach people what a Tim Tam slam is and change their lives. I'm gonna ask you if Muhammad was Prophet lunatic or liar and then we're gonna take some questions from our patrons and local supporters

So if you're watching right now and you support us on locals or patreon head over there Ask a question will do our best to get to all of those right after this break cool nice Exodus 90 you've heard of them, haven't you Neil? I have. Well, the guys behind Exodus 90 have started Exodus 21. They're calling it a 21 day restart. So for 21 days, you along with the friends you invite, pray and read through the first two chapters of Corinthians

while practicing disciplines such as 20 minutes of prayer every day, abstaining from unnecessary screen time, that doesn't include pines with the coin is obviously abstaining from meat on Fridays and fasting until 4pm on each weekday. You can take this short opportunity to introduce your brothers, cousins, co-workers, fellow parishioners and even your neighbors. Be kind of weird if you didn't know them, just assume they're Catholic and want to torture themselves 21 days on how to live like Catholic and want to torture themselves for 21 days.

On how to live like Christ and prepare them for Exodus 90 in January. So check it out. Go to exodus90.com slash Matt, exodus90.com slash Matt to get started. I did Exodus 90 once and I lived like a boss monster for the first 31 days and then failed miserably. So Exodus 21 sounds super doable.

You would have done great at this, yeah. I would have crushed it, although probably because 21 days was the goal, I would have like faded out around the 11th day, I don't know. Exodus90.com slash Matt, go check him out to get started. People who've done it just says it really rejuvenates their prayer life and helps them. Exodus90.com slash Matt, link is in the description.

Click it and check them out. And that starts January? No, you can start whenever. So Exodus 90 is going to be starting in January. So this 21 day can be like a little test. But honestly, for me, I'd just do the 21 days. So you can do it whenever you want. Go check it out right now.

Exodus90.com slash Matt. It's a great way to grow in friendship too with people in your community. Check them out. Also want to say thank you to Halo. Sorry. Halo is a really great prayer and meditation app. It is just phenomenal.

Whenever I talk about Halo, I'm always impressed that a Catholic group has been able to create one of the greatest apps in the history and catalog of current apps. It has sleep stories. It allows you to pray the rosary. It even has Mark Wahlberg praying the rosary. So you can pray with Mark Wahlberg, which is pretty cool. I just got back from a trip to Africa and I'm really bad at sleeping on airplanes.

So I listened to sleep stories and people read the Bible to you and stuff like that. It's really, really good. Hello.com slash Matt Fradd. And also when you sign up on the website, you get three months for free. So if you just download the app and sign up that way, you gotta start paying monthly,

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Locals is a free speech platform that will enable me to continue putting out content long after YouTube may choose to ban us or suspend us as Twitter did recently. So go to locals.com, no, matphred.com slash locals. Link is in the description. Link is in the description. And follow us there. We have morning podcasts. You get access to monthly spiritual direction with Father Gregory Pine. We release monthly audio books. For the month of August, we're gonna be releasing What's it called? Tree Survivors? The Interior Castle. We just commissioned a study on the five ways of Thomas Aquinas by Dr. Ed Faser.

just commissioned a study on the five ways of Thomas Aquinas by Dr. Ed Faser Hard man to get a hold of but he has recorded the videos. They're fantastic So just go support us there and one more thing that we're doing is we've put together an ink on paper newsletter It's phenomenal. I'm not joking. Isn't it? You saw it. Mm-hmm. Did you actually impressed? I really like yeah It would be awkward if you got a crossword. It's got a Catholic crossword puzzle and poetry and articles from theologians. And this will, when you get this, for free, by the way, we even pay shipping. So if you live in Namibia or Yemen or Australia, China,

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Yeah. So what you're going to do is once you sign up as an annual local supporter, that's how you get the thing. You can support us monthly, but if you support us annually, you get access to this newsletter. And you just we just ask that you put your address in. So once you sign up to locals, there's something pinned to the top. Click through that, put in your address, and we'll just start sending them to you. Check it out, matphrad.locals.com. Also, you don't actually have to pay to watch a lot of the content

that we put out over on locals. So download our locals app. It's on iOS and Android and start following us over there, because it's an amazing community of catholics All around the world that are supporting each other. It's not just me posting. It's also uh, the supporters posting I think people will really really dig it. So matfrad.locals.com. Check it out. Thank you very much final word Be great if you subscribed it'd be great if you then rang that bell button because right now we have a hundred thousand if you then rang that bell button because right now we have a hundred thousand trophy over here we're over quarter of a million which sounds more than 250,000 which is what I phrase it that way

and once we get a million subscribers they will give us another plaque at which point I will quit the YouTube channel sell my house and go live in the forest somewhere and newspapers And read newspapers, think on paper newspapers. Yeah, and just read all of the newspapers that I put together. Thanks so much. Alright, go for it. Be back? Okay. So, this is a Tim Tam slam. I can't think of fewer things as gross as what we're about to do on live camera. Maybe if you just do the broad view we won't make people vomit. But first of all, people need to know that a Tim Tam is what you Americans would call a cookie.

Yeah, that's right. And they are the greatest biscuits. You can get them at Walmart and stuff these days. Can you? Yeah, but I don't know if they're that as good or if they're... Are they the original? I think so. Yeah, they're good Tim Tam.

I better tell my American friends because they always want me to get some. Or they want to take back from Australia. But okay, that's good to know. So Walmart. I think so. Okay. All all right so just put the camera on me for this one yes because I don't want you know not on me on him all right so you want to take a bite out of each corner right creating something of a straw, you see? And then what you're gonna do is you're gonna suck the coffee

through the bottom, through the top, it's gonna melt the cookie, then you're gonna eat it. But the deal is you're not allowed to look at each other doing it, because it's the most disgusting thing ever. Now you're gonna put the camera just on Charbel and Neil. No, no, just- All right, on both of us. All right, here we go, ready?

Here we go. both of us. All right here we go ready? Here we go. Yeah. Oh my gosh it's like 9 o'clock at night and I'm drinking espresso. Do you sleep after this? Yeah I'll sleep. I'll sleep. Yeah. How'd you get with jet lag? Does it smash you when you come over here? A little bit. Because I didn't, I never slept on the flight. Isn't that good? So good. I am a bit of a dunker.

Yeah, I do like a bit of a dunk. All those little Australianisms. Yeah, yeah, bit of a dunk, bit of a dunk. You know what I was saying, we could write a little book on Australian sayings. I know there's a ton, but most of the ones I know inappropriate. You already good Australian sayings that wouldn't offend everybody. Oh, six of six of six. Sorry. Six of one half a dozen of the other.

You say that here, don't you? Yeah. Oh, you do. Yeah. I've never heard about so hungry. I could eat the crotch out of a low flying seagull. Another one. I actually don't know that one.

Well, you're welcome. No, thank you. I, um, I know that one. I actually don't know that one. Well, you're welcome. No, thank you Seraphim's like yeah, I love the America the shrimp on the barbie is a popular one, but we don't we don't say shrimp No, I don't say shrimp on the barbie Esky yes is a cooler. It's a cooler box that you put things in and yeah, keep it cool stubby holder Stubby McDonald's is called Maccas Maccas. Yeah, you have to call Mac. Actually, the Cap Maccafe started in Australia.

McDonald's in Australia is so much better. Do you remember, Liam? It's so much better. I I think I mean, the Australian beef is pretty good. So the beef industry is very good in Australia. Even though the Macca's beef is great here, too But I notice it's different. The bread, the chimneys, vegetables and stuff. Do you have things like genetically modified stuff? Is that what happens? I don't know. I mean, what are you laughing about? We got somebody, I don't know if this is a

real one. The one we affectionately refer to as Moo Moo said dry as a dead ding. No way No need to read that one May your chickens turn into emus and kick your dunny door down the dunny Can we do people know what the dunny? Toilet. The outside toilet. Oh, OK. The dining. Love that. You know, it's funny is in Australia.

We have a separate room where the toilet is. So you say I'm going to the toilet because the toilet is usually just in one room because in Australia, we don't think you should crap in the same place that you bathe. But whatever you're going to get into an argument about

that point is I remember I was in Canada. I would still refer to the toilet as the toilet room, you know, the toilet, even though the bathroom is in there. So I went to the toilet and I put my coat on the hook or something. And I came out and I went, oh, hang on. I left my coat in the toilet. But to Americans, that sounds like you've put it inside of the bowl. Because what we do, the bathroom or bathroom, sorry, bathroom.

That's right. Bathroom, bathroom. And then W Canada. I mean, in Europe, rest, WC, restroom in Canada, water closet. Is that right? And I think that might be the case in some places, maybe in England, some places. I'm not sure you see. Yeah. Yeah. The water closet. All these euphemisms

Yeah, that's right. Do you like being here in America? I do I love it. I think There's so big enough the lens I see America's through the connections I have with the Catholic Apostolates, so I'm going straight to where all the good initiatives are Yeah, so I guess I'm in a bit of a bubble. Yeah, I know you know you go straight to Franciscan University Catholic answers you got st. John Paul the Great down there, you've got Augustine Institute, you've got all the great, EWTN, it's just all beautiful right now.

But I do watch a bit of the news about American, and unfortunately- Why is Sky News so obsessed with American politics? Do you even know what Sky News is? Yeah, yeah, we have Sky News in Australia. But why are they always talking about American things things or is that just what comes up on my YouTube feed? Yeah, maybe it's because of what you watched. I mean, yeah, I mean, we had all of them CNN, Fox News, all that is available in Australia, because on cable,

if you've got cable or look these days, no one's really watching TV. It's YouTube, right? That's a YouTube pops up and then how we're gonna be if on cable in America You get Australian news channels. Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting They even call the World Series of baseball the World Series even though there's two bloody American teams Or Canadian I guess that is so funny. Yeah, I love Americans so much. I really do. I'm so I love living here I love the pay. I mean if there's still there those who still haven't the patron of the same definitely here. Yeah, there's a respect for the most part I know that's changing lately the whole woke

Culture is a very interesting phenomena now, which is creeping into Australia Yeah, and we're and we're picking it up from America so yeah, I find it funny because I would bring a lot of American speakers to Australia, and typically a lot of the Aussie, like bishops and priests, I'll say, hey, look, the American accent thing, we need some more Aussies. Absolutely, but you can't deny that the young people are watching Hollywood, they're watching MTV

and all the music awards and so. It's MTV still a thing? You know, yeah, well, that shows my age, doesn't it? Well, I'm like thing. Oh, you know, yeah. Well, is it? I don't know. Doesn't it? I'm like you. I don't know. I'm totally detached as well.

That's what I remember. Yeah, I don't watch it, but that's what I remember. Yeah. Yeah. I remember I saw a clip on YouTube of Tim Staples giving an address, maybe in Sydney on Islam. Yeah, that was at the St. Chabot's Church where I met my wife and where we started that young group.

We had over, oh boy, that seemed like a pretty powerful talk. And if memory serves someone got up and they were challenging Tim quite vigorously. Yeah, that's right. Really good. Tim responded. Now, because there were Sunni and Shiite Muslims in the room. And so we had the first one, one the classic it's the most common question We're in the Bible does it say as Jesus say I am the son of God worship me and and then Tim would give an answer and then And then another person would jump up and he invited the Muslims asked the first question another guy

She I said because Tim quoted some some quotes from the Quran where it justifies beating Husbands allowed to beat their wives now the explanation is it's not like bash your wife. It's just hit her like Yeah, she's ordinary. Yeah, that's it. And and and it's you don't hurt her. You don't like injure her It's just a hit like a child and and then Tim said so you are now justifying just a hit like a child and and then Tim said so you are now justifying hitting your wife whether it's did he double down that would have been good yeah but we don't hurt her it's just and and so he didn't he didn't see what he just said it's like mate you know you just doesn't look good for you not a good look at all um but in the end they all came and thanked him and and a year later

we got father Mitch Paco out and we gave another talk called Mary in Islam and that was a powerful talk and Father Mitch Packer, he reads Arabic. He knows Islam inside out and he was quoting Quran and then a few Muslims were in that crowd, same church, and they would ask him questions, and he would then respond. Things like the eras, the gospels are not accurate. So the gospels we have today, the big claim is that every single, the original gospels have been burnt and gone, and proof of that is because we have

the American Bible, the New International Bible, the RSV Bible, Christians can't agree on which Bible to read therefore there's no authentic Bible. We can go into that I mean that's a fun one but the idea is that Father Mitch Packwood just said hey show me the evidence. Where's the original Bible that you're talking about and then you can make that claim until you show me the original Bible that you're talking about that's corrupt that we've corrupted You can't make that claim you got no evidence and

Yeah, it was a great response. They thanked him and at the end they invited him to the mosque I want him to talk to their man what I love love admire the Muslims in general are passionate about their faith and they want to share it and and they invited father Mitch Knowing they just want to constantly respond and I guess to affirm their faith or or defend They do want to like convert you and that's fine. Yeah, they're trying to evangelize us, too But it's great that they don't hold back

They really want to just get out there and it's you can count them on your fingers. How many Catholics do that? Yeah, you know we're shamed and so that's so is Muhammad a Prophet Lunatic or liar I have my answer what yours Is it an either or okay, it can't be a both and, you tell me, what are the two you want to choose? See if they contradict each other. So a prophet, he would be a false prophet. A false prophet.

So he's not a prophet. Not a prophet. Alright, so you've got two other options, or you can throw another option. Is he a liar? I don't, to be honest, I don't think he was a liar because he truly believed he was possessed in the cave. It was his mother, it was his wife and uncle that convinced him that that was the prophet Gabriel, Angel Gabriel.

Now this is interesting, a lot of people don't know this part, but when Moses when Moses Muhammad was in the cave He describes like an experience that his heart was ripped out of his chest. That's right split Drained and put back and shoved back in his heart. Basically he felt possessed and When he went out he was afraid to do the phrase that was what he said to his wife at the time, right? So I believe he was actually not lying right so that I think my notion and then they convinced him now You're a prophet of God knows only 40 similar age. Here we go. This is the age of Realization says as a 40 year old here he goes and he goes out and he he has to start Convincing people about him being a prophet

And and that's over time, he started to build up his followers. So he had a lot of different peasants around and they would come follow and then he would try to convince the Jews, but then they didn't buy it. And then he got angry with them and started to call them, you know, infidels. So it's an interesting story when you follow it all.

But he did do one thing. I have to give him one thing. Do that and then give us your answer. You still need to, I still got one more, right? Yeah, maybe he's going to take, maybe there's another option. So you could come up with that. I would say he was possessed. And I think that Islam has good in it, but is demonic ultimately, not in that it's has an absence of any good in it. Yeah. Or there aren't good teachings or even things that we can agree with Muslims

that we would disagree with secularists. But I do think that I think I think he was possessed or mad or both. Yeah, probably because he can't call him prophet. No. Right. And you don't want to call him a liar. And if someone's claiming to receive revelation, he's either deluded. So maybe you don't want to go all the way and say that he was mad. You might say he was deluded.

You might say he was hallucinating. You might say he was possessed. I think it's one of those. Whereas if I look at Joseph Smith from Mormonism, I would say, I think he's a liar. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. Interesting.

But I think as you say that, I know it's very difficult to say something like that. And then at the same time say, I really mean no disrespect to those who would follow Islam. I'm not trying to say bad things about you. You know, the Muslim who's watching the show right now, like you might have all sorts of objections to level against Christianity, but you can still give me the benefit of the doubt of being a man of goodwill, and I could give you that benefit of the doubt while still criticizing your religion but I don't mean any personal offense to you.

Perfect, don't. Yeah, yeah. What's the saying? You play the ball, not the player. The ball. So it's the issue, it's the idea and we're not making a personal judgment of Muslims. Right. Right. And again, a reminder, we love Muslims. They're made in the image and likeness of God. They will face the same judge as we will. We all face the same judge. We'll all be treated the same. But you cannot be a Christian and call Muhammad a prophet. No. Can't. No. Have you seen what Thomas Aquinas has to say about Islam? Can you, Neil, if you have time, go to pintswithaquinas.com, type in Muslim or whatever. And there's an episode where we read what Aquinas has to say in the Summa Contra Gentiles against Muhammad.

It's brutal. We won't read it now, but if you can put a link in the description to what Aquinas has to say about Muhammad. Oh wow. Yeah. St. Francis of Assisi as well, right? He went out and-

Because he went to try to convert the, something or other, some Muslim leader. And that's it. You've got to, we've got to just do the same thing, present the truth in love and then and never make it personal I know I'm become no one is super open to the thing you're telling me about if while you're telling me about it You're also insulting me or coming off as super condescending. It's very hard to hear you if you do exactly exactly And I know I need to yeah respect that like the flip it flip the tables

Yeah, do we like it if people are insulting? Yes No, we don't mother or and then you or you Catholics are idol worshipers and all you Catholics are this or that? No No, it's not nice. It's not it's not it's not right We were talking about truth here and and it's a subjective thing and we have to look at it in in unity and in peace and and With with an openness. Yeah, there's a great deal we can learn from our Muslim friends. A great deal. I think Christianity would become a lot more masculine

if it would look to how Muslims practice their faith. They have elements of the truth. Yeah. And that's what we say all religions have elements of the truth, some more or less than others. Yeah. And we do say not with pride, but with joy. We found the fullness of truth. The Catholic Church contains the fullness of that truth. Now we have to continue to discover

that and let it penetrate. If you don't understand something, pray for understanding, but there is the fullness. But every other faith would have more or less some aspects of that truth, you know, so We're all searching for it and keep searching until you find it because once you find it the truth will in fact set you free and you will be Free and and you and you would find peace as well You won't be at peace until you find that freedom. You might find that freedom until you start searching for the truth and you don't find the answers in the truth until you have an open heart and separate yourself. It's not personal.

It's don't don't get all personal here. Is this right or wrong? And it's not either or it's it's not both and it's one or the other. Yeah, it's right or it's wrong. Anyway, do you want to take some questions, please? And then Derek or Liam or whoever else Neil, if you have a thing you want to throw out, feel free. But this question comes from local supporter Emily Welsh. She says very inspirational episode so far. I have to finish the rest tomorrow. What would be the single best book aside from the Bible y'all would recommend to explain

Catholicism to someone trying to strengthen their foundations similarly to how Charbel did. Wow. Okay. My goodness. There's so many options. Yeah. You see the first the first instinct you say the catechism, but it's probably a bit dense. You said the compendium of the catechism again, but they're good options. That's into the faith.

There's I mean, I do like Trent Horn's one why we are Catholic. I was gonna say the same thing. I mean, it do like Trent Horn's one, Why We Are Catholic. I just like that. I mean, it's the most simple entry point. Dr. Edward Tree has another book, Why We Are Catholic as well, which is sort of, was made in, with the intention of being part of Cimbolon. So that whole faith explained, probably a bit heavier than Why We Are Catholic,

but it's brilliant. Our very own in Australia, Dr. Robert Haddad has Defend the Faith, it's an apologetics book, but it's a Q and A answer style with church fathers and catechism quotes and scripture quotes. That's a really good one, available on our website, but that's Defend the Faith. Yeah, they would be right there, but there's so many.

It's very important with all this, and this is something I only learned through experience, really, that we do not jump ahead too far in our spiritual life. We start baby steps, take it step by step, because once you can understand something, you're ready for the next level and then the next. Sometimes if you jump for the heights and you miss everything in between, you're going to have no foundation, it's going to crumble, and you sort of can over commit to some things in your faith, and then there's no foundation there, and all of a sudden you could be, as Jesus says, you're going to have no foundation, it's going to crumble and you sort of can over commit to some things in your faith and then there's no foundation there and all of a sudden you could be, as Jesus says, you know, swept away with the sand. So you've got to have a good foundation.

So the basics, the creed, you know, the basic truths of our faith and the meat and potato stuff is important, I think. And there's so much good stuff. This podcast is, you know, as a start. But I think we need to learn in a systematic way as well as as top on topics. We've got to do that. But we also got to start foundation.

So I hope that helps. There's a few. Yeah, that's good. I would highly recommend why we're Catholic. Yeah, by Trent. Yeah, it's excellent. Can I tell him I said I would never say that to his face again, but just behind his back there and then check out perusia media dot com, which is the Which is your website where you can learn more get books probably in the threes or no?

Yeah, MP threes ebooks are on there. There's a digital platform as well like a link in the description Neil Yeah, please. Thank you. Check it out. All right, Sam says Do you think that the Catholic communities in the east are the best modes of? Evangelization for Muslims due to them being such a heavy influence on Islam Certainly helps because they understand Firsthand what it's like in the Middle East because of the persecution that's happened the majority of the Middle East has become Muslim But it's not all Muslim and a lot of people forget some countries like my mother is from Lebanon and so

Lebanon itself is still run by a Maronite Catholic president that and it's in the Constitution you have to be a Maronite Catholic to be the president and then the vice president or the prime minister is a Sunni Muslim interested and the deputy vice is a Shiite Muslim. So that's the order. Wow. And it flows that way. So if you split that up, they pretty much are a third each,

a third Christian, a third Sunni, a third. Now the scary thing there is if you combine the Sunni and the Shiites, then you've got like 60%, 66% Muslims in Lebanon itself. But then you've got the Qaldians, the Iraqi Christians, and it's getting smaller, but they're there and they're on fire. You've still got some over there in Egypt

and the Coptics doing their thing. And it's so powerful that they're out there, but they have been persecuted for years. And that would help, but it's not the be all end all, to be honest, anyone can understand, but I guess they've got a headstart in understanding because of the language as well. Maybe those who speak Arabic anyway

can pick up things in the Quran that might help. But again, I think today with the technology, the internet, with the information we can get, it's really even playing field now. Anyone can learn about it. Thanks. Lorenzo Golo says, do moderate Muslims, he says, really condemn their co-religionaries who defile churches in France, slaughter

Christians in Nigeria, take Christian children as sex slaves in Pakistan and in general kill priests, women, children, innocent people who had no fault but their Christian faith. They would publicly disagree with that. They'll publicly say, yeah, condemn the violence. Absolutely. Unfortunately, if I can say this, bit controversial, but you have to be on the inside to understand this. You have to understand the,

how do Muslims view the non-Muslims? They have the truth in their mind, the fullness of the truth. And we, and non-believers are either infidels or just non-believers and they need to receive Islam. They need to become Muslims. They need to, and so they've got a mission to do now if they are not open to it So you can befriend someone? Until they deny Islam and then something does change

You become now an enemy so what happens is you have to You have to unfortunately You have to, unfortunately, protect the way to protect the world from this evil that is anti-Islamic, any non-Muslim who's publicly denying Islam. They have to be silenced in some way because they're spreading evil according to a Muslim. And that's how they're seeing it. And that's why the Sharia law and all that it's it's whatever you need to do to advance Islam and Sometimes in history we've seen it. It's involved violence. It's involved threats It's involved forces and we can't move away from that. It's a historic fact. This has happened And I've experienced firsthand and I've seen and

I know the conversations have happened behind the scenes and I know what they say about the West I know what they say about America I know what they say about the Jews I know what they say about Christians and even the Quran itself says things about Christians and Jews the first half is quite interesting you know befriend the people of the book. Second half, you know, doesn't say that at all, you know, you basically, yeah, you condemn them and, you know, they're not equal, they're not equal to you. And even I remember, because I was good friends with them, I respected them and I believed in God, they saw that. They said comments like this, I could give you, I'm

gonna give you a glass of water and I said thank you. You know, we Muslims have to be hospitable to those who at least believe in God. So you don't do that for an atheist? And this is where we... okay. The Christian way is for everyone. See, Mother Teresa wouldn't have said, if you're not a Catholic, I'm not going to help you. She would help everyone. And that's the Christian calling. In Islam, it's not necessarily that way. It's you help your Muslim first,

and then believers in God second, and then everyone else is last. It's an interesting thing. Since this book's released, and since you've been talking about this more and more, do you have Muslims challenging your representation of Islam? Yes.

And what's that like? It's very brief because they don't want to continue. I'm very happy to sit down one on one with anyone about this because I'm, I'm, I'm being real. It's, I'm not here to judge you as a person. It's you're born in Islam. I'm not saying that's bad. You're born in Islam. I'm not saying that's bad, you're born in it. But what I am inviting

you to is to ask these bigger questions and journey towards the fullness of truth. And yes, I'm going to say it, Islam doesn't have the fullness of truth. It's got elements of it, but Jesus is either Lord or not. He can't be a prophet and God. It's one or the other. We've got to decide. And then, you know, going through all this, we have to be respectful of it. So I'm brief discussions, but no one's really come out and thank God. I haven't had any threats or anything like that.

So it's not like that. A lot of people assume it's no, no. You we have to be respectful of each other. And we do that. We can go a long way. Who's doing the best work in kind of Muslim apologetics in the Christian or Catholic churches today? You know there's

It's hard because everyone's got their strengths and weaknesses Um, and so I love I mean you had him on the show. I love what um, what's his name there? Um, David wood, David wood. David wood knows his stuff Yeah, but he knows what buttons to press, right? Yeah. And he deliberately presses those buttons. Yes, he does. And so then the and I get it.

And so internally, we could laugh about things. And yeah, the only thing you want to be careful of is, is how is that received by a Muslim and will they go on now? I know why he's doing it. And I get it. And because I understand that the way of thinking and sometimes it's not being charitable the other way. I know Muslims what they think of us. But and you've got to you know, it's like dishing it back. When you say you understand why he's doing it, why is it that he's doing it in that way?

I guess he's doing it because it will provoke an emotional response and it will get them, they're not reasoning. What happens is they become emotional about it and they become defensive about it and they take it personally. And then I start attacking him and all of a sudden it's not a debate anymore. It's not a debate of ideas, it's personal attack. So the amount of times, I mean, God bless him, he's a courageous man and I to meet him, you know and learn I learn a lot about what he's done with his work He does great work. I'll put you in touch with him if you yeah, thank you, please

And I'd love to meet more. I mean Sam Shamoon's another one He's not a Catholic, but he's doing great and he invites them to Jesus and then Robert Spencer, which I He's written a lot on on Islam and he just became Orthodox recently. I just heard, I just heard yeah. So yeah, we'll pray for that. Can we do that? Yeah.

Who else? Yeah, there's also, oh there's another American lady over here. Oh man, I forgot her name. Sorry as she speaks Ruthless about about what happens in Islamic countries, but again, it's good stuff But but you take what you need is information and remember as long as you you don't take it personally We're good. We let's learn. Let's go for the ideas one by one And I and so that there's three on top of my head father Mitch Packwell I really love his style he does a good job of it as well father Mitch so I can I point out father Mitch Packwell I mean yeah yeah that he's

definitely up there any good debates was like the best Muslim Christian debate online that you've come across funny as much as I wouldn't you I mean Robert Spencer's had a few and again Robert he presses those buttons to and you see that debate between him and craved. No. So Robert Spencer and Peter Crave was a top baited whether Muslims are more of a threat than modernists or, you know, modern secular people. And Robert Spencer just destroyed craved.

And I did not expect that to happen at all craved was saying that no Muslims are our allies and You know that we have more in common with them than we do and you know When was this when you hear that you like, oh, maybe that's true. Maybe it's not this was a long time Okay, maybe ten years ago. So oh well, and I love craved I mean, it's brilliant. I think craif came to it more of like I'm just having a conversation and I'm open you know. Yeah. Whereas I think Spencer came in for blood not in a bad way but just like he was ready to go ready to battle. He's highlighting the viewpoint the world view from an Islamic

perspective I think and that's an interesting insight so he is correct in his assessment. Yeah. It's just the the question is that's not the way I would go about it but But it's very effective at what he's doing. Yeah. Yeah, Sarah from you had a question. Yeah I got to figure out how to sort of phrase it so like recently in my recommended on YouTube all of these Dawah channels are popping up with these Islamic apologetics videos that are typically based in short form.

There's an emotional appeal. There's somebody who has an emotional response to it. They say you just have to say this prayer, you know, the Shahadah, and now you're a part of the people of God. All of your sins are wiped away, you're good to go. And it just strikes me is how similar that is to like Protestant, evangelical, charismatic churches in the, you know, you come in on the spot, you could pray the sinner's prayer and everything's good to go. So I wonder in doing outreach or apologetics or evangelization to Muslims, do you think, who do you think maybe has better footing there?

You know, something similar like that in an evangelical circle or something like a Catholic or Orthodox who has like a more rigorous life of repentance and you know, there's work to be done there. Just maybe your thoughts about that. Yeah, I mean, we don't hear of the stories that... Apparently, I heard a stat that nine million Muslims are becoming Christian every year. Now, that's not necessarily Catholic, but Christian at least. And I think the Protestant Church is doing great in this space of introducing them to Jesus. Whatever it takes to get to Jesus, right, get to Jesus. But then once

you discover Jesus as Lord, you can't stop there. We've got to take him further and further and deeper and deeper and more in love with Jesus to the point where you get into his mystical body and all of that and the church. But I think then they're both good, whatever works, right? So if you're on that level, if what the Protestants are doing is working, getting them to Christ, which is brilliant, we celebrate the fact that they do that. But as long as they don't stay at that base level, they've got to continue on the journey.

So I think we can work closely with Protestants in this space, introducing the divinity of Christ to our Muslim brothers and sisters. So let's work together in this space and evangelize Muslims and that's one thing we can unite, but you're right, the strategic way. So with the sacraments, they're powerful. So through baptism, confirmation, reconciliation, Holy Communion, all that, that does require formation and RCIA, the whole process. So you want to make sure that they're fair income. Can I say that?

Fair income about their faith and real. So you wanna journey with them on that. So maybe it does, it's not as you do, don't just sort of rush and baptize and, but you could, I mean, look, you could, but don't leave them be. You gotta sort of journey with them and keep them going. And I do regret the certain people I need to go back and catch up with that I

I sort of left, unfortunately, high and dry because I distanced and I didn't follow up and I feel bad that I haven't done that. And I think we all have a duty to do it. Go back and journey with the people that come across your life. And we are supposed to be disciples and we're supposed to be accompanying them and then bring them closer and closer and deeper and deeper in a relationship with Christ and his church and if we can do that that's we're gonna go a long way so I don't know if I've answered your question. It does, I mean I have a lot of thoughts on it and like kind of

piggybacking off of one of the other questions that came in about like the Eastern Rite churches or the Byzantine Rite churches, whether it's Eastern Catholics or Eastern Orthodox, the spiritual life would be culturally much more similar, where there's a more rigorous fasting rule and there's prostrations, there's more of a prayer. I mean, is there a way, even the Catholic Church could maybe encourage within its own communion to equip the Eastern churches to do a better job. I love that. I think, yeah, there is definitely work to be done there in the East to bridge the gap. And that's a key. I think there's real hope there if we can have more and more Eastern churches doing that and understanding, and they do understand Islam, but outreach and doing that is important

the the idea of Yeah formation we have to form So in the East we have to form we have to realize the history here. How did Islam get these practices? So the five times a day it comes from it's, clearly from the monastery, the monastic life. So we've done that from the we face the sun. Yeah, the east and, you know, they face Mecca, which is basically the rock. So are they praying to Allah or the rock? And they have to be they have to be honest about themselves there.

Why do you have to physically face the rock if you say Allah is everywhere? And then that's the spot where, you know, Muhammad went up to heaven. But the idea is understanding a then that's the spot where you know Muhammad went up to heaven but the idea is understanding a little bit about the history and then how we got to where we got to and then we can evangelize that because you can see all the influences of the Muslim biblical stories and how they came up with the stories. Father Mitch Pack was brilliant. He picked on, there's a chapter dedicated to Maryam, Mary. But it sort of mixes Mary the mother of Jesus and Mary the sister of Moses. And if you don't pick up on it, you'll miss it. So reading that surah on Maryam, you'll notice, hang on, hang on, that not what Mary, the mother of Jesus, so they're mixing bits of history, so you've just got to go in there and clarify and fix up the order of things and then we're good to

go. But when it's very convenient to say all the gospels are fabricated, they're all, they're all, they're false and then we've got to start there, okay well, well then if you're going to say that, then don't quote it. So if you just said that Muhammad's in the Bible, you just told me that the Bible is corrupt so why are you quoting a corrupt book and Then ask questions like that to then get them to think why would you ask me? Where in the Bible does Jesus say I am the son of God worship me. Guess what? I'll save your time He doesn't say it that way and what's the problem because you've just told me I remember Ahmed did that he was a famous evangelist and he said I

would challenge every Christian out there if you can find in the in the Bible your Bible that Jesus says I am the son of God worship me I will give you a thousand dollars I remember that and and no one could do it and even I think a few Protestant pastors showed him and he says no it doesn't say that. What did he just do? He tricked us. He's forcing us and dictating how Jesus needs to say it. Hang on it's not up to you how Jesus reveals himself. Jesus did it. He didn't just tell us. He showed us. I love it. He fulfilled the Old Testament perfectly. He was the fulfillment of the Old Testament he lived a life of virtue

he performed the miracles and then he if you want to want to go there I mean not he did say it in a more radical way you know when you say before Abraham was I am Yahweh I am the word he's saying the forbidden word he's just made himself equal to God like there's so many things and he proved that he dies on the cross Resurrects and then the seven last sayings of the cross. Oh my goodness Just there's so many things you can just point out here that Jesus is in charge. He didn't get murdered He laid down his life and that's the difference here. We didn't follow a weak God. He's a strong manly figure that came down to show us what love is all about and he went through it and he

was painful but he loved us that much that he did it. And if we can get into that a bit more, well okay, he didn't say it the way you wanted him to say it but nor is the Shahadah prayer in the Quran the way you want us to say it. So we're in the Quran. Does it say there is only one God and his prophet, Muhammad? In that order now, it's in two parts. Sure. That's fine. And then you're like, no, no, no, no. I said, I said, and that's exactly it's like, well, it doesn't.

So you've got it. You've got to play it the same way. Hmm. Did I answer that question? Yeah, yeah. OK. Did you ever meet that Islamic leader who had you repeat that prayer three times? No, I wish. I really wanted, because he came from from overseas, Jordan in fact, and I'm going to Jordan in September, so I'm wondering if I can find out. I've got to get in touch with my friend Ali and see if it's been 20 years though. I don't

know if there's a way of finding him, but I'm going to Jordan with Tim Staples on a pilgrimage So that's gonna be fun him and his wife and his brother father staples. So that's gonna be awesome Holy Land and Jordan so if I can get back to Jordan and see That that chef that would be amazing. So what else you got going on with peruse a meteor and everything else Yeah, there's that pilgrimage. So yeah, September 3rd to the 13th plus a little add on there next month. Next month. You going home before then? I'm going home. Yeah, I go home on the 31st of July and then and then I'll be home for a month and then go to Holy Land with Tim, Valerie and Father Terry. And that's gonna be awesome. Following the footsteps of Christ. And we actually think about it like this, it's chronologically laid out. So we start in Bethlehem and we walk our way through

the Sea of Galilee and then we end up in Jerusalem and we go through the whole passion and resurrection scenes. Have you been to the Holy Land before? Never. Me too. Now, Steve Ray is the man that, you know, he's the, I think he's the leader of the pack in this space. He's been eight million times I think.

That's right. And then some, but I'd love to go Steve ray one day but and this is harvest journeys is the company that that are putting this together and they've partnered with us and We've got about half a bus load of Aussies. Yeah. Now we need to fill up the other half with Americans So come on guys Americans. We can go to check it out. They have a joint journeys comm It is also via the website and Perusia media, just look for it, but that'll be awesome. How's Tim doing? Much better, yeah. A lot of prayers. He's much better. He's not a hundred percent,

he describes himself as about 80, 85 since his stroke. He had a stroke six months ago and he was really bad. He was struggling to walk and he was struggling to do anything. It was really hard on him But thank God he got through it and he's back on on Catholic answers live and he's still doing his thing But it's just taking it easy. He's not as he's such a faithful guy I got nothing but good things to say about Tim. I'm lovely. Absolutely. Yeah Cool. What else? Yes As you said masculine Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Cool. What else? Yes?

I have a question. As you said masculine, what do you think that the typical Muslim more strong in their faith than typical Christian is more strong in their faith? What do you think Christianity is like? Okay. Just reiterate that to those who didn't hear it. So the question was, so because I mentioned the word masculine, Muslims, what do I think between the Muslim approach to being masculine and the Christian approach, which is more masculine would you say or? I'm saying as you said, masculine. Yes.

Yeah, I would say, oh good one. Yeah, you said that they're masculine. Yeah, prima facie, it looks like a more masculine. On the outside, I would. Oh, good one. Yeah, you said that they're masculine. Yeah prima facie. It looks like a more masculine outside It is on the outside. They they pull together. They'll defend Uh the the truth, um, you know the the the 10% of truth that they have they defend it And they'll go to death for it How many christians are ready to do that? but

I might have to say this. Um the true man man of honor is one that will stand up for the principles and defend the innocent, defend the vulnerable, defend truth. And where I guess when you scratch the surface, and I'm just generalizing, but my Muslim friends, where they fall short because they're missing out on the Christian message here. Charity. So the idea is we support our own, let's stand up for each other but not necessarily stand up for the vulnerable or the non-Muslim or the one that need. So there's a difference there. So I think there's work

to be done. So the Christian idea of the Christian message is charity is for everyone. We have to be charitable to the world. We have to be billboards of Christ. We have to be always outward looking for other people. That's what love is. Love is not inward looking. It's outward looking. And we don't live a selfish life. Imagine that the society if we live the selfish life, it will be anarchy. And it's heading that way, unfortunately. But you know, if people started speeding on the society, if we live the selfish life, it would be anarchy and it's heading that way, unfortunately. But if people started speeding on the road because they didn't wanna follow the rules, they didn't wanna, they don't care what anyone else thinks,

they just wanna do their thing. And it would be a chaotic world. So we have to reintroduce the idea of charity, which is lowering yourself, humbling yourself, and elevating others. And I think that's the Christian message. It is exactly the Christian message. You think God humbled himself

in order to elevate us in grace. I mean, that's exactly it. It's powerful. And that's the man right there. I remember I went to Abu Dhabi about 10 years ago to preach. It was such an honor to be invited. And on the airplane, I was sitting next to a fella and he turned out to be a

university professor. And this was back in the day when I thought because you had a PhD, it meant you knew a lot. And we started debating abortion. And, you know, even though I felt pretty confident on the topic, this guy's got a PhD, golly, I better not get into a conversation with him. He's going to wipe the floor with me. but I entered into it somewhat reluctantly and I was shocked at how terrible his argument was, you know, and I was clearly just winning this debate that maybe we shouldn't be killing innocent people and maybe that was never okay.

And he was failing so poorly in our dialogue that he actually reached out to the lady hostess What do you call her the flight hostess flight attendant flight attendant? For like backup, you know, like well, let's bring a woman into this Well, it turned out she was a good Muslim woman And so then the two of us went to town on him like she she went off on him He would be for abortion. It was so cool. So me and this Muslim air hostess were refuting this, this professor, I don't know what he was a professor in,

but it was interesting as to exiting the airplane, his exact words to me, I'm very precise when I try to recount what people say, because I hate when people embellish, I hate hyperbole, even though I know there's a role for it. But he actually looked at me and went, well, I think your arguments are better than mine, but I'm not going to change my opinion what Is that profound if you would say it's a truth isn't what matters the most you know but wow

But that was the time me and a Muslim woman argued. That's also Yeah, right if we can do more of that. I think that'll be good Yeah, so don't don't be afraid to engage with Muslims that befriend them Bring them over your place. Do we have a little is there all the Muslims who have you know help? push the pro-life Perspective for there are the abortion. There's not some I mean not not that I know of a huge Outward outreaching Apostolates, but I know individually when you speak to them,

they are definitely against abortion. But yeah, I'd like to see more vocal Muslims step up to the plate in the pro-life movement. I think they're there, they're definitely there. They definitely agree with us on that. So that's a challenge. So anyone watching, yeah, please, we need you. Awesome, dude.

Well, anything else you wanna touch on before we go? I guess I guess shout out my wife my eight children Yeah, that's good. She's at home right now with the kids. How's she handling that bless? Oh, what a saint. Yeah, she look I don't want to go that far. I can She's beautiful very patient patient with me and you know She's part of the mission and the ministry with me as you know by supporting it and she's behind it and any big decision I make it's always consulting her and You know, so she really influences the direction we go So yeah, I love her and we've we've had 16 years of marriage first of July this year. That's awesome

Is oh my goodness in August. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In August. Oh, so you got married a month before me. My goodness. Look at that. Where were you married? What?

Texas. Texas. Houston. I was married at the church. We met St. Chabelle's. Terrific. So, um, it was amazing when I was engaged to her.

So what happened? I was in the seminary. I don't know if people know that, but I was in the seminary because I wanted to ask the question, God, are you calling me to something radical? Because people said, you should be a priest from all the prayers I was, so I better discover that.

So 2003, I joined the seminary. I did meet my wife before that, but she was just a friend, sister in the Lord. And then I spent a year in the seminary, loved it. Is this in Sydney? Sydney. But it was under the Maronite Eparchy, but trained with the Sydney archdiocese. So Cardinal Pearl was the archdiocese of Sydney then. Loved it. And we did a 30 day silent retreat at the end. I have to share this story. I mean, it was a miracle.

30 days, wow. So I knew about six months in, I knew from day one I wanted to be married but I needed to explore if priesthood was for me. If that's what God's calling me. So about halfway through I did have a little trip to Lebanon, met some married priests and I thought oh is it attractive? But I couldn't do both. I had to be one or the other. Then I continued the second half and just I asked the question, if I was to marry someone, who would it be? And my wife popped in my head, Christine, and she never left me in my prayer. And I would be in adoration and I would be like,

okay, there's our Lord in adoration, but Christine's there. And I feel like I need her to be next to me adoring the Lord. And I feel just really strong about that vision and it's amazing I every time we do go to adoration. I always think of that prayer I had in the summary but in the final month I asked my mother to join in a you know, the st. Teresa five-day It's not a novena because it's five days not nine days, but there's the five days what happens if you want something Answered you go to st. Teresa of Lisieux and it's basically st. Teresa of Lisieux please pluck a flower a rose from heaven and show me and it's a beautiful prayer I don't know it all off by heart but you

say it five days in a row and at the end she will send a rose now to make it even extra difficult I said all right I see lots of red roses I'm gonna make it white if I wanted to be married and I said, okay if I see a white rose, that's marriage and if it's a red rose, that's priesthood That was the conditions and my mom did the same and it was in the 30-day silent retreat It was the last five days of the silent retreat. I love that song. I was oh, it was awesome But the end of that I had a daily spiritual director and in the end he got frustrated with me it was the last day he said Charbel we've been journeying for 30 days and you'll know clearer about

your vocation than we were on day one what do you want yeah and I said I want Christine and I and he stood sat back in his seat and he got up and just walked out and I Looked I looked outside the window and there was a rose bush with a white rose Yeah, I said wow I got home and I told my mom the good story I saw a white rose today and she goes you wouldn't believe it But I also saw a white rose in the garden I've never seen one ever in this garden. So we both got confirmation of the right rose. Now, I took that as a nice little, all right, and then I told the bishop and he said, look, I'm going to send you to Lebanon and study Syriac and Aramaic and the Maronite spirituality and

then make a decision. I said, okay. So I did. And again, about seven months in, I just, you know, I made up my mind he was gonna send us off to Rome and I really wanted to stay but I had to be true to myself I look I want to be married I'm not gonna cheat anyone here and then I went back I thanked the bishop and I got home and within a day or two of arriving I just texted Christine and then said can we meet at st. Michael's Church and I remember it was a Thursday 2 o'clock we said a prayer, it was the first of July, and we started to court then.

And then a year later, we got engaged on the first of July. I proposed at that, there was a park bench down the road from the church. I proposed there, and then a year later, got married at the church we met. And a year later, we baptised our first son, Michael. And a year later, we baptised our second son. And then every year and a half for the next, you know, seven extra, four more children.

We yeah, eight children now. Thank God. Oldest is 15 and youngest is Alexander who turns one on my birthday. So we share a birthday, third of August. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny you say that about asking God for signs because I moved to Texas back in 2005 and was discerning marriage with Cameron and I prayed for three signs.

I was in mass one day and I prayed for you know, it's funny what you do. It's a bit embarrassing saying it out loud, but I prayed I wanted to see like I wanted to hear unambiguous scripture. I wanted to see a full moon and I want to see a bloody deer in the middle of Houston. And I saw none of it. And that was it. So you didn't get your sign? Nothing. But I felt God was saying to me in prayer, Matt, you're old enough and ugly enough to make this decision on your own.

What do you want to do? I'm a Mario will bloody do it. You do it. So I did. This is the marry you. Well, bloody do it, you idiot. So I did. This is the best decision. Well, one of the best decisions I've made. Yeah, awesome. That decision for a Tim Tam probably outranks that,

but still a good decision. Do you know Mark Bennett from Brizzy? Mark. Yes. Shane. I think he still leads Net. Yeah, he's still involved in Net. So I used to live with Shane. Oh wow.

And Mark was a dear friend. And I called Mark up and I said Mark I want to Better this is about a day after I was praying about my wife now wife I said I want to marry her but I'm just yeah, just not sure you know what if it's the wrong decision and maybe I'm called to be a priest and He was just flabbergasted. He said what the bloody hell are you talking about you idiot? She's better than you are She's better than you are you better propose before she figures that out that night. I proposed to her Oh, wow. So thanks Mike Bennett. That's awesome

Shaming me and making a good decision. Yeah, it's great There's good movements down Australia like that and net and the and from net there's the mayor's yeah manual community There's the unite conference happening all the time and there's so many great initiatives, fire up ministries and I'm just so pleased to see more and more independent ministries starting. We need to step up and do the thing. Yeah, we have to evangelize, we have to form people,

we have to do whatever we're called to. But do you think like in you know in America here? I don't know if it's because of like Hollywood culture, right or like celebrity culture I know there's some of that in Australia as well, but obviously not the same level as America Do you think though like American Catholicism can fall into that where you've got your celebrities up on stage or behind microphones? And yeah, do you look at that and think know, as, as helpful as that might be in the moment, that might, might be, there might be something unhealthy there that I don't want Australia to necessarily follow in the same path.

Absolutely. Yeah. Um, I get what you're saying. It's, it's, it's not about us as individuals, less of me, more of Christ. It's gotta be, everyone's called to different. It doesn't mean it's a cookie cut. Like not everyone is called to do the Pines with Aquinas show. There's a calling.

Not everyone is called to do Catholic answers live. Not everyone is called to do Augustan Institute sort of stuff. No, you're called to do what God's calling you to do with your skills. I love to share this, how do you know what you're called to? I think it's a big question. And I think there's some clues we can look at. And Jesus says in the gospels, it's your talents, start there, your talents.

So first and foremost, what gifts are you have been given to you from God? If you're a creative type of person, artistic person, maybe it's through that form, you should be serving the Lord. If you're a great preacher, then maybe that is your, not everyone is called to do that though. St. Paul reminds us of it as well. If you love working with your hands, maybe through a trade like Jesus Christ himself or like St. Joseph, you could be in the construction business.

If you like managing and organizing things, event management, or even in the corporate world or leadership. So whatever your skills are, I think that's a clear calling that God has planted it, now invest it. Don't bury it, invest in it and multiply it. So that's one. But the second one is where are you in your life? So if you're, are you married or single? That's a big, because that also will dictate a little bit about your direction to go. Are you um,

you know what situations that you know, you've got a the mortgage or the all the commitments you might have and there might be certain things where you have to keep your current job to keep paying the bills, but then um, are there situations where are you ready to step out in the deep and then maybe give up that job and and then And do something different. So where are you in your life? Um, the third one would be like what is it that you actually enjoy? Yeah, so if you don't enjoy it, then it's obviously clearly not from god So there's got to be some satisfaction there and a desire and then what? um

Not ready to now trust in the lord ready to now trust in the Lord? And then can you bring that to the table? Is there a need for what you want to do? If it's gonna serve a need or fulfill a need, there's another sign. And then finally, you step out in faith and do it. And then if it gives you peace, fulfillment, it's from God.

If you're sort of always uneasy and I mean God is a God of peace and I think that peace deep peace is what we're looking for not just pure pleasure or pure enjoyment or sad you know what like you say just getting the attention it's about is what I'm doing not only fulfilling to me, but is it effective? Is it having a difference? Is it bearing fruit? Am I enjoying it? Can I survive doing this?

All these sort of factors. Because it's an important aspect we have to discern in life. And once we do that, I think game changer, if everyone followed their vocation, big V, and then followed the second vocation, little V, you know, sort of what God's calling you to do in specifically. I think it's we're going to we're going to have a huge impact in this world. Well, thanks, Shabelle. People should check out your book.

Can they get on Amazon? I know they shouldn't because Amazon sucks. No, but they can. Yeah, it is on Amazon. OK, it is on Amazon. How Islam led me back to Christ. Check out Sh Shah bel's book Check out perusia media comm Once you go there, you can check out the pilgrimage that you and Tim Staples will be leading in in September

Thanks for all the work that you do a man. Yeah for my for my beautiful country and yours, too And thank you the great Southland of the Holy Spirit. No, that is a no Is it everyone knows that is of course people? Yeah, I hope so. Yeah she stood up right? She stood up and you think you can get me a relic of her? Oh there is. Yeah. Is that too audacious a question? Because I've got that's Thomas Aquinas in there, first-class relic. First-class wow. First-class in there. I cherish that. Definitely. Yeah. Merit that that photograph. Tell you where I got that. So my first day at Catholic Answers,

Jason Everett had just left for Denver because he was working in San Diego and then he was working remotely in Denver. And I got his office. Right. So I walk into the office and it's completely empty except for his filing cabinet filled with chastity material that he had photocopied. He's a machine.

I love him. And then that was on the wall. He bought that for me and put it in the room. How about that? Yeah. He's a special guy. He bought it from Australia? I don't know, he probably just bought it online.

Cause he's been to Australia a few times. It's been great. It's very popular over there. He's terrific. Yeah, he's a real deal. Yeah, he's a real deal. Yeah Man of faith awesome cool glory Jesus Christ always amen God bless you ain't that we're praying for you and thank you going and Yeah, fly the flag of Australia and get that up here, too. You got the map. That was a guy I saw you you did that personally right you actually just did that up to upset the Tasmanians. No. Yeah, you've knocked them off. That's not good

They used to be there, but I lost it. Ouch You know that is the ends of the earth right yeah I found crazy writers if Australians made the map of the world. Yeah If Australians made the map of the world. Yeah, like this. Right. Like that.

That nuts. This crazy like the only reason, right, because we obviously don't know what North and South is, what is North and South in relation to it's in relation to the map makers, right? Yes. So if Australians had written the map and drew it up, it would be upside down and the North Pole would be upside down and the North Pole would be the South Pole etc. Didn't that blow your mind?

I don't know about all that. Yeah, the radius, the border of the world, there's a, what's it called? A pulse. There's a pulse. It's not necessarily called negative, positive, there's a pulse. But that doesn't show what's actually north. What do we mean by north? Like, whenever you say something is north, that's in relation to something else.

Right. Well, it's north and south pole, but it would probably flip. That's what I just said. You're assuming they're on top. Yeah, it'd be flipped. I've not thought of it like that. But the Europeans drew the maps. I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you, man.

Yeah. Don't they have satellite images? Don't we have satellite images? Won't that sort of predict that? Surely that was so like how are they focusing on the earth like all you have to do with that satellite is turn it around So it would be accurate and Australia would look like that Does it make sense am I talking crap if you think about like if you started a map in Europe everything below it would be Lower and everything like yeah, it would be the same and that's why right we think of that as up and on top

yes I'm sure to process that yeah so really we're at the top and America's down when you get to the point where you exit the atmosphere yeah take a picture of the world well then your satellite is you're taking a photograph of it the way you've interpreted it. You would just send it up. Yeah, wouldn't it be? What does that mean? That's what I agree with. You have to send in a space upside down to get that image. But what do you mean by upside down? Like upside down only in reference to the way we've understood how the world looks, right? See what I mean? So, look.

This is good. This is where points really starts. We haven't even begun yet. This is where it begins. Like, if I say, if I say, like, you know, those lights are high, I'm maybe I'm saying that in reference to how we're sitting and the fact that I consider that to be the ceiling because I've decided It is so that's the function it plays right? I feel like this is the same argument as saying if a colorblind person created the palette green would be blue Oh, yeah, what did you look up to find that? It's sort of like when people say that the earth but you rotated it

That's because it's they're operating within the reference of this so then by rotating it doesn't that make Australia? Up top to that way, but he had to rotate it like you leave if you leave the room Yeah, turn around and look at it. It's still the same. That's right as you as it Yeah, isn't it like this monk and then it's there's down under and then and then what you're saying is you flip it? And then it's there's down under and then and then what you're saying is you flip it Upside down, then it will be upside down. There's no right way up They put it that way because it looks right because that's what the maps are made to look like and what we're conditioned to expect Looking at the globe, but they have to like Rotating to some amount so they're gonna have to position it some kind of way when they take a picture

Let me say this to come at a different angle, right? So when people say like we now know we're no longer the center of the universe, like, you don't know that because you don't know where the edges are. If I'm in a room and I cannot see any of the walls, I cannot say whether I'm in the center of that room. Right. Because I have no reference point. You make that make sense? Yeah.

All right. So what I'm saying is We don't what's the referent point like what's what's north and south? What is that in relation to we don't know where we are like maybe we're sideways Maybe Australia should be on the side. Okay, as far as the same as something's north You're only saying that in reference to where you are Well, then you should leave that as it is now on your bookshelf done Yeah, let's keep having this conversation because I feel like maybe I'm speaking crap or maybe I'm saying something really brilliant And I can't tell yet, so I'm gonna have a bit more vodka while Neil tells me what's happening

I'm thinking about this when you have to think about how the map was developed you'd have Europe and join some of us make more space I know yeah, thank you get the coffee finished and finished the only reason why this like has any Second meaning to it is there's when you're looking at a globe The northern ones are kind of on top so resting on the bottom so it's as if like the northern one So like North America is on top of the world Yeah, there's a people go upside down then we're on the bottom of the world. Yeah beyond the bottom So that's why it has these kind of like, you know You're only saying that because I'll pay you Neil

No, but it could also know because It's also because like Europe was unaware of Australia and South America when maps were being drawn, right? Who drew the first maps maps I don't know some dude in Europe probably probably wasn't like an African Sheila it's probably like a male European I'm looking at the coastlands right from the ship yeah the coastlands by hand but then what defines the well then you have to think I agree with you what you're saying but then what defines the well then you have to think I agree with what you're saying but then what defines the pulse around the world like we have a compass that points to something. But we've called that north it's not like a compass came out of nowhere and the compass points north but

that's only because we've said what north is. We could have said that south. Well this is all predicated on a spherical earth. What did you say? He said the earth is flat. Yeah, that's another debate. Might as well just derail it all the way. Have you heard of that? This year's world. Yeah, we should actually ask Jimmy. Jimmy would know.

Yeah, he'll know. Let me just text him. See if we can get him a speakerphone. But while I do that, I was going to ask you. Oh, yeah. Have you seen that website? aren't real? I was just gonna look it up No, it's the greatest website and they just changed all the batteries Can you look it up Neil and then like read about it while I text Jimmy? Birds are not real I

See birds all the time. What's the magpie cockatoo? Koala, I'm not quiteala, kookaburra. I've seen a lot of dead birds recently. What's the deal with that? The Birds Aren't Real movement has been active since 1976. Once a preventative cause, our initial goal was to stop the genocide of real birds. Unfortunately, this was unsuccessful and the government has since replaced every living bird with a robotic replica. Now our movement's prerogative is to make everyone aware of this fact. And then I think that they talk about birds recharge on phone lines.

That's why you see them sitting on, or not phone lines, power lines. All right, I'm going to call Jimmy Akin right now, everybody. Are people still watching the show? Absolutely. All right. Absolutely. We've got more now than we did ever. All right, I'm going to call Jimmy Akin right now, everybody. And people still watching the show. Absolutely. All right. Absolutely. We've got more now than we did ever. All right. Jimmy, this is Jimmy Akin. Do you know you? He knows of me. I met him twice.

Hello. Hey, Jimmy, you are on Pines with Aquinas with Charbel Reich. How you doing? Nice to make your acquaintance. Yeah, good to see you. I was just that Catholic answers yesterday. Oh, cool.

Yes. It was great to see everyone. So, Jimmy, my son, who is an avid listener of your excellent podcast said, you'll know the answer to this. So I've got a question for you. If Australians drew the maps.

OK, the question is, how do we know what's north and what's south? Because we have no reference point to what's actually north and what's actually south. So is north and south arbitrary names that we give to different directions or Is north actually north for a reason that I don't yet know well So north and south are semi arbitrary names for directions. We have the Earth is a sphere, it turns on a rotational axis, and we arbitrarily call one end of that rotational axis North and the other end of the rotational axis south.

East and west also are arbitrary names, but at least in their case, they can be given a meaning with reference to the direction in which the earth turns. Because the earth turns in such a way that the sun rises in what we call the east and sets in what we call the west. So the names of all these directions are arbitrary, but they are tied to geophysical facts about the earth. North and south, however, are more arbitrary than east and west because you can always define east and west in terms of is the Sun coming up in this direction or is it setting in this

direction whereas with north and south you could flip there's there's no real difference between north and south geophysically speaking and so you could if you wanted call the South Pole, the North Pole, and vice versa. And so that's the basic answer. Okay, yeah, that's fascinating. So am I right in thinking that if you look at a map, the reason it looks that way is because Europeans

view it that way, or as if, you know, Australians have had have written the map, we might be looking at Australia upside down on a map today. Correct. Yes, you could take a map of the earth and turn it upside down. And it would reflect the perspective of what would have happened if say, the Australian aborigines had been the first to colonize the world. And they wrote all the maps

from their perspective. That's fascinating. Incidentally, the same ambiguity about North and South applies not just to the Earth, but to the galaxy. The galaxy has a galactic North and a galactic South, which are oriented with the Earth's North and South. But if you flipped the perspective of Earth, you would flip galactic North and galactic South as well. Yeah, gosh, that's that's fabulous.

Thank you so much for giving us that brilliant answer off the cuff. Yeah, no problem. Just happy I could be of service. Yeah. What's the next Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World episode going to be about? We just had an episode come out on Friday about the biblical mystery of the Urim and Fumim, or as they say in America, the Urim and Fumim, which were two objects that the priest, the Jewish high priest could use to get answers from God on different questions.

And then this coming Friday, we're going to be doing an expose on a psychic medium named Robert Rickey who claims among other things to have interviewed Ted Bundy and to have participated in two exorcisms authorized by the Archdiocese of Chicago and so we're going to be using different investigative techniques to look at this gentleman's claims and show what a total liar he is. Ooh. Well, thank you so much, Jimmy. People go check out Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World. Thanks a lot, Jimmy. You're the best. Thank you. All right. Bye. Awesome.

I think you have better audience back. I was right. But I'm going to, I'm still not going to change my mind. How does he spit out an answer like that? Isn't that incredible? He's a freak. Amazing. Trent Horn said that Trent Horn said that Jimmy Akin may be a cyborg sent from the future by God to save the church. And I think he might be right. Thank you. That is going to be like that forever now. Thank you. I think that's literally like that. And I'll try to find Tasmania and hang it up there. You know how many times you're going to explain explain that no, I'm never gonna explain it

Just like that photo I take photos off with my guests. So never is one Yeah, well I guess I could do that I Won't but it's possible Isn't that great vodka? That's brilliant. Isn't that the best you've ever had my mate? That's brilliant. Isn't that the best you've ever had? My mate gave it to me. He's made and founded this company. Yeah, Polish vodka.

So this is a hazelnut vodka, but it's nothing artificial. He uses real hazelnuts and maple syrup and vodka. Very good. I think we can fit a little bit more. So you're away from your wife for quite a while. Two weeks. Yeah, that's not too bad. Yes, that's not as long as other. Yeah, that's probably the longest I would ever be away.

Well, I mean, if you're going to come all the way to America, you got to stick around for a little bit. I can't do it for you a few days. It's brutal. I just got back from Africa. I was on a flight from Namibia. So I went from Namibia to Johannesburg to London, to Atlanta, to Pittsburgh. It was about 35 hours with stopovers, you know, you just, I walk out fried, not even realizing how fried I am.

Worse than going from Australia. Yeah. We got the cheapest flights possible, but we were in London airport for about 13 hours on the first leg. Just stick and hang out. Yeah, you've done a few trips already this year, right? You go to Poland. Yeah, yeah. That was unexpected, though. That was decided like in a phone call.

Father Jason, who I've had on the show, and you know, Ukrainian. So he called me up and he was telling me about all that was going on in Ukraine and the border and they were being overrun. And I said, well, can I do anything to help? And he called me up. Remember, Liam, we were having sushi. It was Ash Wednesday. So, you know, I was sacrificing and fasting, having sushi. And he said, Matt, come to Poland.

And I hung up and called my assistant, told her to book me a ticket. Well, and then told my wife I was going to Poland. I have a very understanding wife. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, we've got to appreciate our other spouses, you know, I mean, they're they're in the ministry, right? They're without your wife. You probably can't do this. Well, I I tend to think that it's my wife suffering

that is the fuel of whatever good this supposed to accomplishes. Yeah, she suffers a great deal. She's a lot of pain and a lot of health issues. Oh, she's a good woman. She's very patient, unlike her husband. But yeah. So, hey, tell me who Saint Charbel is, because I I have some Maronite friends who would just slap me across the face like your mother did to you.

If I said who is Saint Charbel? Because yeah, that's terrible. But you're named after him. Yes, I am. I actually is a fun, interesting story in the book. My mother was was four months pregnant and she was bleeding heavily. And the thing is in chapter one, chapter one of the book and and the doctor told her, look, I'm sorry, Mrs. Rae, you're gonna lose this baby. I don't recommend you continue with this pregnancy.

Basically saying, terminate the baby. And my mom said, she just said, no way, I'm not gonna do that. She turned to Saint Charbel and said, doctor of heaven, that's what she's, you're the doctor in heaven, please pray for this child. If he survives, I'll name the child after you boy or girl and and I'll dress the child in a black robe like you

so that night the bleeding stopped now she believes st. Chabelle pretty much answered the answer that prayer or prayed and God answered the prayer. I've got to get that right. And I was born and the doctor was, he was amazed that I survived and she went straight to the church after the hospital and dedicated me to St. Chabel and I got baptised confirmed there and later on married there and then baptised a few children there. It's been amazing. It's been a big part, met my wife there. So all that stuff. But who was he? He was a hermit from Lebanon. 1898 he died. Now he wasn't really like, Joseph was his name growing up and he always had this devotion like he would have a little shrine out in the field and he'll go out and sneak off and pray near a cave. And so apparently when he was really little, it was a cheeky boy, he was naughty. But then as he grew up, he found his faith and would pray a lot. And then he wanted to join,

it was a poor family and he was supposed to continue the family business, but he had a desire to join the monastery and he did and he became a monk. I can't remember how many years, but maybe 16 years, if not more. He then asked to be a hermit and then he then went out to a hermitage, lived by himself in solitude and lived a very simple life. There's images of him with his eyes closed, looking down with the practice custody of the eyes, and he made a vow never to see his mother again until heaven. And there was a story, she wanted to see him in the monastery and he wouldn't see her, but he spoke to her through the grill and she said, why don't you see your own mother?

I'll see you in heaven. Please pray for me and I'll pray for don't you see your own mother? I'll see you in heaven. Please pray for me and I'll pray for you. Let's get to heaven. I'll see you in heaven. So this real desire to get to heaven. And it was work, it was similar, I guess, to LMA, Lebanese Maronite Order, similar to the Benedictine idea of work and pray.

And so he was working the fields and he'll get tempted all the time and he would fight off those temptations. But there was another little funny story where these young boys wanted to trick him because at night he would ask, you'd have these wax lamps and you would light them up so you can continue to pray. And he asked them to get the wax lamp and they filled that up with water. They gave it to him to play a trick on him and he ended up, he just lit it and it lit

up and they were like That's a miracle the superior came in and sort of they said who was this man? So in his life though relatively unknown when he died only three people at his funeral But because a patriot passed away as well and his funeral was on the same day, but relatively unknown But after his death, here's the funny thing He's known around the world now in Russia, in Mexico, across South America, Australia. My goodness. And the amount of miracles attributed to his intercession is in the, I would say, I wouldn't

tens, if not hundreds of thousands, the amount, because if you can go to his site in Lebanon, you can see all these letters from all over the world and there's heaps of them, people writing, and thanks to his intercession. And when he, the miracle when he died was that it smelled like roses, and he had this oil that came out of his body and people would bottle it up

and it was like, it had a healing element to it. But then when he was, he was, he was incorrupt for 50 years. So he's one of the incorruptibles and they exposed his body and then when he was beatified it started to ooze oil. So then they put him back into a, like a, what do you call it, a boat. Not a cot, it was not a typical coffin but a, you know, I don't know what you call it. Yeah anyway, but it like a coffin and it's in an area now and you can go there and Yeah, he's and he got canonized in

1977 and yeah, he's been a real role model of prayer fasting fighting off temptations Turn to him to to heal people and he's healed many people and including me. I'm here because of Say Charbel. Charbel. Yes. Sweet man. It's been fun. Alright. Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh. It's a pleasure. How long are you assuming you're going to be here for? Just tonight and then tomorrow I'll go I'll catch up with Scott Hahn

He's at the clergy conference there and John Berg's well in Bay Ogilby, there's a golf club nearby at 40 minute drive Okay, I'm getting a car and then going down and then I'll continue off to Philadelphia I'm gonna catch up with Ascension Press the team there there. Basically, the ministry, what we do is we're trying to license a lot of these publications in Australia because shipping is astronomical. You pay more for shipping than the product itself. So if we could be the boots on the ground

for many of these ministries, then that will go a long way. And that's what's happening. And thank God, we're organically just expanding slowly and yes, it's reaching more people in the region. So Australia, New Zealand and the Asia Pacific as well. So very excited. We publish books. We distribute and you publish this one.

This is your yes. I'm so this looks great. By the way, your book. Thank you. Good. Thank you very much. I love the opening bit and then I'll wrap up here But I love how you started your book I just read it while you while you were talking

I thank God every day for my Muslim friends because if it were not for them I would probably have remained a lukewarm Catholic living a self-centered empty life focused on myself and indifferent to others What a cool way to start a book. Yeah. Yeah, so we did. All right. Thank you so much being on the show Let's eat some cherry ripe, some violet crumbles. Thanks, everybody, for watching. Please subscribe. Ring the bell. We're going to have Father Gregory Pine on the show tomorrow. What time is that? I'm not sure.

I'm going to check right now. I need to get a bed because I got Father Pine coming in. What are you picking him up or how is he? No, he's renting a car. He's what? He's renting a car. Father Gregory Pine. Den Den Den. Where's what? He's renting a car. Father Gregory Pine. Dintin, Dintin, where's he from? Two o'clock tomorrow.

So Father Pine, where's he from? I don't know. P.A. I don't know. OK. Do you know who he is? No. Oh, OK. He's a Dominican priest. Beautiful. Western Eastern province.

OK, he's currently studying in Switzerland, getting his doctorate. It's about I don't know. He young 29 30 35 I don't know what he's younger than me but he's one of those brilliant people I've ever met like he's a really smart dude and really cool. Okay. Yeah that's on the YouTube. He's usually he's on my show a lot. Okay okay. He also is. I do know him yeah yeah I'm terrible with names So sorry father. Yeah. Anyway, so if you're watching right now, click subscribe ring the bell We're gonna father pine on tomorrow. It'll be a live show. Hope to see you there. Thanks Neil. Thanks seraphim Thanks, Lily. Um, thanks. Shebel Bell. My pleasure